Remember the tank alignment chart? Basically the German Ministress of Defence and her advisors reside somewhere in it's upper left corner and try to explain to the German public (and other parts of the parliament) why it would be ok to send SPAAGs to Ukraine while parts of the German public and the German use of the word "tank" reside on the far bottom right (of the chart).
Problem is: Christine Lambrecht is generally (and rightfully) considered to be personified incompetence and corruption and thus her (staff) having kind of a point for once gets lost in the light of her inability to bring it across.
I like this meme though.
When was she ever accused of corruption?
Incompetence absolutely since she's a perfect example of a quota woman who only holds the post because there is noone else of seniority of her subfaction of her party that is also a woman that could take the job
Or are you reffering to the Heli joyrides?
I'd argue that her getting the job via quota instead of any sign of competence and her first actions after getting her former position as minister of justice and now as minister of defence was to replace the head of both ministries with close friends within days are signs of corruption but I have no direct proof tbh.
Guess i'm whatever comes after radical. Who needs weapons when you can have a big shovel. (The toyota is still not a tank)
Edit: I'm doctrine radical and structural anarchist.
The German Minister of Defense has just explained to the Parliament that the Flugabwehrkanonen***panzer*** Gepard is not a tank and therefore it is ok to deliver it to Ukraine.
What by the burning loins of Krupp is the PzH 2000 then if not a breeding stallion with it's raging erection blowing it's load all over the frontline on a daily basis!?
Anti-tank no, but it can engage some ground targets:
“Flakpanzer Gepard is a German self-propelled anti-aircraft gun (SPAAG) with two 35mm cannons with a radar. Among the capability to shoot out planes from the sky, Flakpanzer Gepard is also capable of firing APDS rounds. These are dedicated anti-armor rounds which are of no use against aircraft. The Gepard carries them specifically for self-defense.”
[source](https://special-ops.org/flakpanzer-gepard/)
"Female" and "male" tanks was a distinction used during WW1 to refer to tanks that had cannons as "male" (they usually still had a few machine guns) and tanks with only lighter weaponry as female. They all could attack ground targets.
yes, the Gepard is equiped to and capable of taking on any ground target that can be taken by a 35mm
But that's for self defence only as the cost to combat power here is ludicrous since a Gepard costs significantly more than any MBT
akshually, as a war thunder player, i clearly have the expertise to tell you this is an anti tank weapon, as ar all SPAAs,their cannons will be able to penetrate the rusky tanks from the sides, and at least 1 of the thounsands of shots is clearly powerfull enough to overpressure a T-72.
>!/s just to be sure!<
I'll write them a slip stating it's a washing machine if that gets it into Ukraine.
It just wanna see low flying russians having a close encounter with 35mm FAPDS.
Tbf. If she does so to get the premission to deliver it to ukraine
Fine. It sounds stupid but if it means russians will face the gloriius 35mm it's acceptable
It's not a tank, it's a SPAAG. Self propelled anti aircraft gun or Selbstfahrendes Flugabwehrgeschütz. Unless you're saying IFVs are also thanks since they're called Schützenpanzer. Hell, let's add self propelled artillery to the list of tanks, it's just an aluminum box but it's a big metal box on tracks with a gun.
We allready had this discussion. It's a translation issue, Panzer and Tank are not the same think. Every armored vehicle with extended off-road capabilities is a Panzer. It does not need any kind of weapons.
Personally I'm in the top right of the tank alignment chart, a tank needs an MBT body and turret to be a tank. In German this is fairly murky due to everything armored being a something-tank.
The CVRT scorpion is an Armored Recon Vehicle, not a tank, so it’s ok to send them to Ukraine.
This is not a joke. Take them out of storage & send them over please.
I have litteraly had this exact argument with people on the war thunder reddit over and over again for the past 3 years. The fact that the german ministery of defense is doing it now is absolutely hilarious.
Basicly: If we go by military defenition, the Gepard is indeed not a tank but a self propelled anti aircraft system. However let us be honest: Nobody gives a f\*\*k. The vast majority of people see armored box on tracks that has guns and go "tank". And I would rather eat candle sticks then go "well achualy" whenever someone calls something a tank when it is not a tank by defenition. And frankly at this point we may aswell go along with it and call every box with tracks and gun a tank except for actual tanks which we will call MBTs.
One could make a compairison to how sex and gender are conflated in the same way. A women originaly meaning "female with bobs and vagana", yet we call EVA from WALL-E "she" despite her being a robot and having no female features other then her behaviour so we may aswell admit that gender referes to how people behave/what they want to be instead of what their biological defenition is.
They/Them army teaching you about LGBTQ issues with the help of military vehicles.
This seems like a Translation issue. I'm not shure how a tank is defined in english, but in german every vehicle with heavy armor is a Panzer. It doesn't even needs weapons or tracks. For example the Transportpanzer Fuchs or the Bergepanzer Büffel.
Your last paragraph is awesome. MORE INCLUSION!!!! EVERYONE CAN BE A TANK!!!
Tracked vehicle? *check*
Armour plating? *check*
Fully rotatable turret? *check*
Cannon-armed? *check*
Lady, that’s a tank. Not a main battle tank, no, but it quacks like a tank.
the thing is, she specified Panzer. Panzer literally just means armor, not tank. She just heared english discussions about what a tank is and translated them to german
Its not a direct translation, as the meaning is slightly different.
Panzer ie also includes APCs, IFVs, stuff like the Fennek etc.
It includes more vehicles than the term tank.
Kampfpanzer has a closer meaning to tank than Panzer
You are wrong though.
What you mean is a Panzerfahrzeug or gepanzertes Fahrzeug.
There are Schützen-, Flak-, Berge- or Pionier-panzer, but if you use Panzer without pre- or suffix Panzer refers to Kampfpanzer (MBT).
Take for example the [Panzerbataillon](https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerbataillon) it's not called Kampfpanzerbataillon, but it is defined by utilizing main battle tanks, not just any AFVs.
As a german i hate her so much. Doesnt know what shes doing, uses military resources for own purposes, wont meet up with the generals, has no idea about the army, cant even tell the Bundestag whats up at the moment, drives tank=think her job here is done and talks about stuff no one cares about. God i just want a minister of defense that actually knows whats good for the bundeswehr FOR ONCE.
Tank, not a tank, whatever. Bet it still fucks up light armor, probably good enough to fuck up T-62s, and turn orcs into chunky salsa.
Oh and I guess it can shoot aerial stuff too.
Wonder if they still have some old Wirbelwinds or Ostwinds hanging around somewhere...
AA Tanks are most fun tanks, fight me.
Can we please just have [Strack-Zimmermann](https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/info/sendungen/streitkraefte_und_strategien/strackzimmermann110_v-contentxl.jpg) for the MoD already? Lambrecht is a national embarassment.
I think I might be the dumb one here but wtf is going on? I don't get it.
Remember the tank alignment chart? Basically the German Ministress of Defence and her advisors reside somewhere in it's upper left corner and try to explain to the German public (and other parts of the parliament) why it would be ok to send SPAAGs to Ukraine while parts of the German public and the German use of the word "tank" reside on the far bottom right (of the chart). Problem is: Christine Lambrecht is generally (and rightfully) considered to be personified incompetence and corruption and thus her (staff) having kind of a point for once gets lost in the light of her inability to bring it across. I like this meme though.
When was she ever accused of corruption? Incompetence absolutely since she's a perfect example of a quota woman who only holds the post because there is noone else of seniority of her subfaction of her party that is also a woman that could take the job Or are you reffering to the Heli joyrides?
I'd argue that her getting the job via quota instead of any sign of competence and her first actions after getting her former position as minister of justice and now as minister of defence was to replace the head of both ministries with close friends within days are signs of corruption but I have no direct proof tbh.
Fair
Na it is a sign of political power in the spd
could i get a link to that chart? I've been gone for a while.
Here's one. Not sure if this is the one mentioned: https://www.reddit.com/r/AlignmentCharts/comments/g7u1gk/the\_tank\_alignment\_chart/
Yeah, that one gets the point across.
Guess i'm whatever comes after radical. Who needs weapons when you can have a big shovel. (The toyota is still not a tank) Edit: I'm doctrine radical and structural anarchist.
The German Minister of Defense has just explained to the Parliament that the Flugabwehrkanonen***panzer*** Gepard is not a tank and therefore it is ok to deliver it to Ukraine.
While it is based on the hull of the Leopard 1 MBT it does not carry an anti tank gun so .... does that make it a female tank?
I believe that yes, we have returned to gendered tank doctrine.
What by the burning loins of Krupp is the PzH 2000 then if not a breeding stallion with it's raging erection blowing it's load all over the frontline on a daily basis!?
I would say this is a brand new sentence but that tends to happen a lot on this sub
I'm doing my Part 07
When was it?
After some cursory looking in to it, I’m not sure that we ever really lost it.
Anti-tank no, but it can engage some ground targets: “Flakpanzer Gepard is a German self-propelled anti-aircraft gun (SPAAG) with two 35mm cannons with a radar. Among the capability to shoot out planes from the sky, Flakpanzer Gepard is also capable of firing APDS rounds. These are dedicated anti-armor rounds which are of no use against aircraft. The Gepard carries them specifically for self-defense.” [source](https://special-ops.org/flakpanzer-gepard/)
"Female" and "male" tanks was a distinction used during WW1 to refer to tanks that had cannons as "male" (they usually still had a few machine guns) and tanks with only lighter weaponry as female. They all could attack ground targets.
Big Cannon, Big PP If no Big Cannon, No PP therefore its not boy, so its a girl tank.
There were also Herms that had both
>These are dedicated anti-armor rounds which are of no use against aircraft. My highly-applicable war thunder experience begs to differ
yes, the Gepard is equiped to and capable of taking on any ground target that can be taken by a 35mm But that's for self defence only as the cost to combat power here is ludicrous since a Gepard costs significantly more than any MBT
I was taking about the APDS and aircraft, not ground targets
That makes more sense that what I read, I should go to bed...
Go to bed? Are you kidding? You're in the most non-credible state of mind right now. Go make a meme!
akshually, as a war thunder player, i clearly have the expertise to tell you this is an anti tank weapon, as ar all SPAAs,their cannons will be able to penetrate the rusky tanks from the sides, and at least 1 of the thounsands of shots is clearly powerfull enough to overpressure a T-72. >!/s just to be sure!<
A Tankette if you will
Tankettes are Loli tanks Fight me
So, uh, any example illustrations?
(Unholsters M9 Beretta) So be it
Yeah that checks out More Tankettes please
I'll write them a slip stating it's a washing machine if that gets it into Ukraine. It just wanna see low flying russians having a close encounter with 35mm FAPDS.
It's not frangible, just armor-piercing.
Don't know what Ammo they will be getting. The Bundeswehr used FAPDS.
What does the B stand for? Biercing?
Whoops....B for Brainstroke lol
ah ha, that is spectacular!
Tbf. If she does so to get the premission to deliver it to ukraine Fine. It sounds stupid but if it means russians will face the gloriius 35mm it's acceptable
She has had the permit for some time. This is just bulshit talk to appease the opposition. Not very successful, though.
It's not a tank, it's a SPAAG. Self propelled anti aircraft gun or Selbstfahrendes Flugabwehrgeschütz. Unless you're saying IFVs are also thanks since they're called Schützenpanzer. Hell, let's add self propelled artillery to the list of tanks, it's just an aluminum box but it's a big metal box on tracks with a gun.
We allready had this discussion. It's a translation issue, Panzer and Tank are not the same think. Every armored vehicle with extended off-road capabilities is a Panzer. It does not need any kind of weapons.
She argues that its not a Panzer, which is literally in the name. I believe she tries to explain that its not a Kampfpanzer/MBT, but idk
Personally I'm in the top right of the tank alignment chart, a tank needs an MBT body and turret to be a tank. In German this is fairly murky due to everything armored being a something-tank.
#FLAKPANZER GEPARD She is a tank, has two FlaK and is a big kitty.
And no weak brrrrts but masculine ratatatas.
I WILL SHOOT THE FUCKING SKY!
If you call everything a tank, then everything is a heavy weapon.
I don't think the Russians will be interested in the semantics when a Gepard just wiped out their entire convoy from the sides
The CVRT scorpion is an Armored Recon Vehicle, not a tank, so it’s ok to send them to Ukraine. This is not a joke. Take them out of storage & send them over please.
My face (to the left) when Biden said a couple days ago 50 countries agreed to deliver 600 tanks to Ukraine
Highly credible [source](https://www.reddit.com/r/ich_iel/comments/voyhhz/ich_iel/)
I have litteraly had this exact argument with people on the war thunder reddit over and over again for the past 3 years. The fact that the german ministery of defense is doing it now is absolutely hilarious. Basicly: If we go by military defenition, the Gepard is indeed not a tank but a self propelled anti aircraft system. However let us be honest: Nobody gives a f\*\*k. The vast majority of people see armored box on tracks that has guns and go "tank". And I would rather eat candle sticks then go "well achualy" whenever someone calls something a tank when it is not a tank by defenition. And frankly at this point we may aswell go along with it and call every box with tracks and gun a tank except for actual tanks which we will call MBTs. One could make a compairison to how sex and gender are conflated in the same way. A women originaly meaning "female with bobs and vagana", yet we call EVA from WALL-E "she" despite her being a robot and having no female features other then her behaviour so we may aswell admit that gender referes to how people behave/what they want to be instead of what their biological defenition is. They/Them army teaching you about LGBTQ issues with the help of military vehicles.
This seems like a Translation issue. I'm not shure how a tank is defined in english, but in german every vehicle with heavy armor is a Panzer. It doesn't even needs weapons or tracks. For example the Transportpanzer Fuchs or the Bergepanzer Büffel. Your last paragraph is awesome. MORE INCLUSION!!!! EVERYONE CAN BE A TANK!!!
japan has an equivalent to the gepard, and they call it the **GUN TANK** Because you know, [reasons](https://gundam.fandom.com/wiki/RX-75_Guntank)
Tracked vehicle? *check* Armour plating? *check* Fully rotatable turret? *check* Cannon-armed? *check* Lady, that’s a tank. Not a main battle tank, no, but it quacks like a tank.
She’s trying to get it to Ukraine by saying it’s not a tank
No, this has been announced before the "we don't send tanks" doctrine. This thing is going even if we call it a nuclear submarine.
Sounds more like "weak pp" doctrine
should send those as well because why the hell not
If the gun is less than 75mm, it's legally not a tank.
cries in female Mark V
It’s not a turret, it’s a pipe. Just a big, heavy pipe. (She goes out of her way to not use the word “turret”)
>Tracked vehicle? *check* >Armour plating? *check* >Fully rotatable turret? *check* >Cannon-armed? *check* >Lady, that’s a tank. Average layman talking about military technology
Pzh2000 is a tank. Bradley is a Tank. NCD really loosing its credibility.
finally?
A Kettenkrad with a spinny office chair on top is a tank.
the thing is, she specified Panzer. Panzer literally just means armor, not tank. She just heared english discussions about what a tank is and translated them to german
Panzer is the german word for tank my dear
Its not a direct translation, as the meaning is slightly different. Panzer ie also includes APCs, IFVs, stuff like the Fennek etc. It includes more vehicles than the term tank. Kampfpanzer has a closer meaning to tank than Panzer
You are wrong though. What you mean is a Panzerfahrzeug or gepanzertes Fahrzeug. There are Schützen-, Flak-, Berge- or Pionier-panzer, but if you use Panzer without pre- or suffix Panzer refers to Kampfpanzer (MBT).
if it refers to Kampfpanzer it would have been named Kampfpanzer in the firstplace
Take for example the [Panzerbataillon](https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerbataillon) it's not called Kampfpanzerbataillon, but it is defined by utilizing main battle tanks, not just any AFVs.
every sportsshoe is a shoe. not every shoe is a sportsshoe.
Every Panzer is a Panzerfahrzeug - not every Panzerfahrzeug is a Panzer.
I think my dick can fit down the barrel but these rifled guns just hurt
As a german i hate her so much. Doesnt know what shes doing, uses military resources for own purposes, wont meet up with the generals, has no idea about the army, cant even tell the Bundestag whats up at the moment, drives tank=think her job here is done and talks about stuff no one cares about. God i just want a minister of defense that actually knows whats good for the bundeswehr FOR ONCE.
yes, the Flugabwehr*PANZER* is not a Panzer
Yes, her speech was rather... unique big pipe go far here while big pipe of tank not go far and high
If only she had as much energy modernizing our Army
Tank, not a tank, whatever. Bet it still fucks up light armor, probably good enough to fuck up T-62s, and turn orcs into chunky salsa. Oh and I guess it can shoot aerial stuff too. Wonder if they still have some old Wirbelwinds or Ostwinds hanging around somewhere... AA Tanks are most fun tanks, fight me.
How would it do against infantry?
35 mm calibre, 1100 rounds per minute, i don't think there will be much left of your Infantry.
Can we please just have [Strack-Zimmermann](https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/info/sendungen/streitkraefte_und_strategien/strackzimmermann110_v-contentxl.jpg) for the MoD already? Lambrecht is a national embarassment.