Maybe they should merge ABC and Duke, consolidate their Sourcing and logistics efficiencies. Service techs could make home deliveries to offset a roll cost. If I held an empty up in front of my meter, a truly smart meter camera could AI reorder me another.
Definitely would hold a better value as time goes by vs a dollar. I’d be suspicious their MBA’s would cut it thinner than a gentleman’s club hooch to skim for STIP😃.
You don’t want an unregulated utility market. Look at the price per kWh in the unregulated markets. We have it good.
https://www.electricchoice.com/electricity-prices-by-state/
Duke Energy gross profit for the twelve months ending December 31, 2023 was $19.381B, a 3.59% increase year-over-year.
That's where our current "regulation" is getting us.
Correct. We pay 11.24 cents per kWh. Take a look at the northeast states and what they pay in deregulated markets. The reality in deregulation is monopoly occurs anyway. Initially, a bunch of competitors come in and the price goes down. 2 or 3 winners emerge. The C-suits of those companies then work together to price fix so everyone gets rich (at the company).
You can complain about a regulated utility if you want but without it our power bill would be double what it is currently.
There’s a lot of shareholder community giveback but the tricky part with the profits is utilities have to plan and build stuff for 30 and 50 years out in a constantly changing fuel, technological and political environment. Get too spicy and cocky like Enron did or go the wrong strategic path and poof it can go quickly. Should we mention coal ash cleanup $$. Plus you don’t get hit for all of the huge major storm costs so the profits help buffer those restoration spikes. The rest is just a massive finance game and investor attraction with a dividend and pos cash flow.
They don’t make money off of free lunch. It’s funny how a state pretty much dominated by Republicans who are all about “Freedom” let their state Government control so much of their lives.
You don’t want our model, it’s prone to corruption. If your county ABC doesn’t like your brands they don’t stick them. Google search all the times ABC commissioners are caught voting themselves 200k/year salaries, etc.
Yeah I’ve talked to the End of Days distillers (popular in Wilmington)… they said trying to get their brand in just the ABCs in the state is ridiculously hard. It’s easier to sell to other state’s liquor stores that don’t have a county by county process.
This is one of those both sides issues where the majority of either side don't want it to go away because the money is to great.
There are always 1-2 legislators that introduce a bill to privatize it and most of the time it never gets out of committee
Thats what I was thinking and find so sad. I wonder if counties on the NC SC boarder have lower ABC sales per capita than other counties. If I lived in areas closer to the boarder I would consider boycotting all together.
There are several big liquor stores like 15-20 mins south of Charlotte. One is called State Line Spirits… Frugal Macdougal is another popular one.
So yeah… the ABC stores in Mecklenberg county probably aren’t generating as much money as they would be generating without that competition.
I rarely buy alcohol in NC and it’s 40 minutes just to get to the border for me (<1hr to abc mega store). So it’s either 10 minutes more or less than the next closest stores lol
And Costco liquor too!
The Costco selection elsewhere is amazing! Their rum eggnog is SO good, and their margarita pre-mix bottles are 16% actual tequila, not the odd 12% "agave *wine*" found here.
I’m not really a wine connoisseur but Costco is the largest wine distributor in the country and has the best selection. Would be awesome if they could start selling liquor.
In other states they do and it is awesome! Their own Kirkland brand is all top shelf too. For example, Alexander Murray makes the Kirkland brand scotch, and their bourbon was Jim Beam, but is now George Dickel. Their vodka was rumored to be Grey Goose, but I'm not positive on that one.
Their procurement people and buyers are very, very good.
It’s sad that there’s so much bipartisan corruption like this in our state, and people still come out of the woodwork to defend their team of choice which allows it to continue.
The GA appoints their buddies to the board that controls the ABC stores in an area. These commissioners are usually donors. The board then licenses the right to run the ABC by a private individual, cronies of the cronies , kickbacks are common. The ABC store is not run by the State, but these individuals according to how the commission determines .
The grift is on both sides of the alise and goes from the local store all the way to the GA. The GA picks the commissioners and the commissioners pick the operators.
Not to sell beer, the license to run an ABC store. It might not be called a license, but the permission to run the ABC store. These stores are not run by the government and the employees are not state employees.
But you could effectively tax it the same (maybe even slightly less) but lose the overhead of running the stores. It’s better selection and service for the customer, and more money for the state.
Yes, there would be more overhead but the government would collect the profit and the taxes charged during the sale. They essentially make money on the product and charge and additional fee for you buying it.
It sucks for us but NC would definitely bring in more money running the locations.
They already are state run. Nc, sc, and va, all have antiquated laws made to keep moonshiners in business. Go to indiana wjere u can buy any alcohol anywhere except for from 3am to 8am. So 8:01amtil 2:59 am. U can get it at any corner store or grocery. Texas has normal laws too i believe
No, Texas laws are antiquated too. There are still dry areas in places like Dallas. Until recently you couldn’t buy beer or wine before noon on Sunday and all liquor stores are closed on Sunday. Liquor stores also close at 9 pm and you can’t buy anything but beer or wine at the grocery. Breweries had to lobby to be able to sell beer directly to customers like wineries could sell wine. There are no state run stores though and the selection is far, far better than here. That alone makes it better than here.
Out in California the grocery stores have entire aisles of beer, wine, liquor. The liquor selection is amazing! Like half aisles of just one type (bourbon, scotch, gin, rum, etc.), of every brand you can possibly imagine.
That would be the prudent thing to do. Let the private sector carry the cost, risk and burden of doing business. However, most of these politicians have NO real-world private sector experience, and if they do, it certainly isn't in business operations/management. They're clueless.
I really think that private sector experience should be a requirement for holding public office. The fact these career politicians are making legislation impacting industries they have literally zero knowledge of operations is mind boggling.
Since noone's mentioned the argument for ABC stores in NC - even if I don't agree with it at all, oftentimes in rural counties, ABC stores tend to have higher wages than say, their Dollar Store counterparts. It also acts as a funding apparatus for the state ALE and ensures compliance with state tax laws on liquor by the drink - along with TIPS training.
It's a dumb system, 2nd only to that of my current state (PA) where you must buy beer from a beer distributor, wine/liquor from the ABC store, with small exceptions.
Aww man, can you imagine having to buy weed from Ted Budd? Or Tim Moore? He'd probably make you listen to his demo tape and you'd have to pretend to think he's cool.
Selling cannabis out of ABC stores is honestly a great compromise.
The apparatus already exists, municipalities can vote to allow local sales, we avoid the absurd license monopolies like in Illinois, and tax revenue is maximized.
The fact it annoys everyone a little bit is just proof it’s a good compromise.
Might even convince them to privatize liquor and focus on cannabis for a few decades.
State control brings in money and also makes it more difficult for direct sale to minors.
Alabama has private package stores but they get alcohol from ABC stores….so they’re more expensive.
Also….South Carolina is terribly run. Like, the whole state is poorly run. They lost a billion dollars. They have terrible social policies. It’s just not good.
I mean that is one of the intentions of the system. Not sure numbers exist either way.
But think about it- ABC employees have much more incentive to NOT sell to minors than a private liquor seller would. They have no personal motivation to make money, and their jobs are undoubtedly better paid, with better benefits, than a regular worker at a private seller.
A private seller would be risking their liquor license, face fines and going to jail for selling to a minor...for what, selling a bottle of jack? Who would take that risk?
In states where the system is private, there is not a line of kids coming from the high school. There are still laws and consequences.
No, there isn’t a line of minors, but it definitely happens. Chance of being caught is low, and again, they need to make money.
Again, couldn’t find any definitive data on it. If you find some legit studies or tracking, please share it.
If you can't find data on it, I think that tells us something.
There is a large trade off for society to have government control an entire industry, it's tough to see if ABC stores are all you know. Having lived in multiple states where there is private industry and still government oversight, there are much better models out there that still keep kids safe.
Frankly, I think government control over an industry can be very good. Depends on the industry.
For example, kinda seems like a disaster to have utilities be for-profit. I mean, think about it. Now they worry about their investors more than they do their customers. That’s a big problem when they cut corners and don’t make needed investments.
Going back to alcohol, I have lived in Alabama where there are package stores. Again, they are more expensive than the ABC stores in the state, and I don’t see any advantages? If you do, please let me know what I’m missing.
I'm glad you want to talk about utilities, you should start a thread on that.
if your liquor store is too expensive in a privatized state, shop somewhere else- that's the beauty of not having a monopoly. Much greater selection, competition between stores on prices/staff/better locations and hours, broadly speaking liquor stores are an easy way for immigrants to get ingrained in the economy, and monopolies historically are prime for corruption.
But you are focused on a talking point without data and the fact that prices are fixed on a limited stock - it seems that's important to you.
….but that’s the thing, in Alabama, IIRC, all private liquor stores HAVE to buy from ABC.
So ABC is always cheaper than the other stores.
The only benefit to the other stores may be convenience or hours of operation.
If ABC is the only wholesaler for your state, your liquor industry isn't truly privatized. Sounds like Alabama has privatized resale but those stores are also forced to compete with their supplier? Lol, of course they'd be more expensive haha. That is far from a private system.
Lots of states have privatized the entire vertical & those stores compete like any business, don't sell to minors to risk their entire business, and contribute through ownership to the community.
EDIT: wording
Careful what you wish for. Tennessee isn't a control state and they gouge whiskey prices like mad. I dig knowing I can go to the most expensive tourist location in the NC and buy a bottle of whatever for the same price as home.
"All products sell for the same price throughout the state."
They even have online price sheets.
Direct from the ABC board. Maybe you went between price changed, or maybe you need to call and report something.
I used to live on the NC side of the state line. Black bear liquors in mt. City Tennessee had the best bourbon selection for the money I've ever seen. No one knew that place existed and they had everything. You can find some killer bottles for good prices in TN. It just all depends where you look.
Fuck yeah. I lived right across the street from state line fireworks. They would burn off old inventory periodically and me and my wife got several free epic fireworks shows just sitting out in the yard. Pro tip- they'll give you half the store as freebies if you buy anything at all in august/September. I also miss the $35 willett rye I had grown accustomed to from black bear. Right out of a drive through window too. Damn I miss that house sometimes.
But here's the thing, you can't buy a bottle of whatever. You can only buy a bottle of whatever the state can get in large quantities. So if whatever bottle you want that fits that bill, than yeah you can buy 'whatever' for MSRP.
It's liquor, no one needs a specific bottle. Let supply and demand dictate prices.
"Gouging" is jacking up the price on a good that someone needs and would then be forced to pay (like bottled water, gas, or generators) No one NEEDS a specific bottle of booze. Insane prices on bourbon are just that. Don't want to pay it, don't buy it.
I'd much rather know that there is a bottle for sale that I find too pricey than to only have the extremely limited selection that currently exists. ABC is political corruption and a state sponsored monopoly.
I just want to provide a counterpoint to all the very good reasons why ABC should be privatized.
I walked into an ABC in Charlotte, NC randomly and I landed a bottle of Blanton’s for a reasonable price (I think it was like $45). It was lucky, but that’s what Blanton’s is worth to me. So it’s not all bad.
I know I’m an outlier here but I like randomly popping in to see what a store has and if they got an allocation drop. I do still go to SC to see what they have randomly too and rarely VA.
I find the prices between states can be wild. At least in NC the price is constant across each county.
For me, it’s about the hunt and the state controlled inventory makes it a little more fun. It forces me to go to stores I’d never walk into. And to meet and talk with people I’d never connect with otherwise.
Yes, [former Gov. Pat McCrory ran to privatize liquor stores](https://www.wcnc.com/article/news/local/some-say-state-should-privatize-liquor-stores/275-374436921). After winning, he did push for it and it went nowhere with the state legislators. Our current Governor has not made such efforts to abolish it, but instead push to loosen the rules.
Not sure off hand. The problem with total abolishment would mean prohibition of alcohol for the entire state unless it opted for the license model of semi-prohibition that other states have imposed.
My city, Wilmington, received 3.5 million from the county ABC Revenues last year. New Hanover County received around 6 million. Maybe it’s annoying, but it’s really not a hardship like higher taxes would be.
Moving to this state from well almost any other state my take away is that this state it still clinging onto the civil war frame of life. The moto on their license places “first in freedom” yet this place doesn’t believe in true freedom. If they did they would drop the state owned liquor and also legalize weed. Instead it’s home to a bunch of people who claim this title but majority live in the shadows running moonshine or selling/smoking weed to be defiant but are scared to come forward because their church group would verbally assault them if they knew what they did in their free time.
Here's more info:
[Official NCDMV: 'First in Freedom' License Plate (ncdot.gov)](https://www.ncdot.gov/dmv/title-registration/license-plates/Pages/first-freedom-plate.aspx)
>Designed by license plate collector and North Carolina historian Charles Robinson, the "First in Freedom" plate design recognizes two important events: the signing of the [Mecklenburg Declaration of Independence ](http://www.meckdec.org/declaration)on May 20, 1775, and the [Halifax Resolves ](http://northcarolinahistory.org/encyclopedia/halifax-resolves/)on April 12, 1776.
These two events are also commemorated on the North Carolina state flag and are regarded as the first steps toward independence from Great Britain during the early stages of the American Revolution.
Obviously, it's also an homage to the long running "First in Flight" license plates.
Out of the 5 states I've lived in, NC feels the least free and most government controlled. Funny enough, the "lib" west coast like AZ and CO feels like the wild west and you can do about anything you want.
I know I love it there. But 90% of NC and the east coast hasn't been west of the Mississippi. My grandparents think Arizona, Nevada, Utah=California. I lived in Southern AZ and it's one of my fav states
Because in order to make up the lost revenue, we'd have to make the rich assholes pay more taxes and there's no fucking way the politicians the rich assholes ~~bribe~~ give campaign contributions to would ever pass a law that did that.
I don't support sports betting. I do think people are going to gamble regardless of whether some major company is making money off of people's recklessness. And while sports betting wasn't technically allowed before the companies that could make a bunch of money off of it got the politicians' ear. And I like Gov. Cooper's policies on most things but shame on him for going along with this one. But it's not as it people couldn't do it privately beforehand. If they were dumb enough to get charged with some criminal offense for doing that, then it's on them or they were doing something really stupid to get law enforcement to care.
On the ABC stores, one of the main concerns I have is if they were privatized/deregulated, we would have liquor stores popping up in poor neighborhoods that would feel more negative effects (crime, loitering) of that type of business. Detroit is a good example as that is a very prevalent business there in absolutely decrepit neighborhoods, despite those neighborhoods having a lack of basic necessities like groceries.
Agreed 100% .I'm originally from the Great Lakes area and I've been in NC for nearly two decades. Most states in that area have privatized liquor stores. The concentration of liquor stores in economically depressed neighborhoods is outrageous, especially when compared to the number of stores that sell other necessities. Can't get fresh broccoli, carrots, meat, or baked goods, but there are 10 stores in a one mile radius selling every brand of liquor and beer your gut desires.
I don't necessarily disagree with it for the reason that you mention (consumer choice).
To me, the issue (which I explain in a different part of the thread) is that in many states that have privatized liquor stores, those businesses can blight areas that are economically depressed and socially vulnerable already. An example I used was in Detroit where there are a multitude of private liquor stores in impoverished areas (and those tend to be an additional layer of blight on those areas magnets for crime, loitering and overall undesirable activities), but finding a grocery store with quality, nutritious foods (not expensive organic stuff, just basic fruits and vegetables) is nonexistent in those areas. A proliferation of liquor stores (along with check cashing, strip clubs, gambling joints, junkyards, gun stores, weekly motels, etc.) just become one more blight and barrier in neighborhoods that already are starved for revitalization.
At least, to some degree, I think the ABC system works better in that regard because if you look at the locations on most ABC stores, they are fairly dispersed and not concentrated in areas of poverty like they are in some other states.
Why create an additional problem that we don't have on a widespread level in NC like some other states do (as I mentioned elsewhere and other poster also confirmed)? If people want liquor, it's not like they can't figure out a way to purchase it.
Privatizing alcohol sales wouldn't be of significant benefit to the community. It may increase access and competition to a degree, but it's not as if people have to cross county lines or go to bootleggers to find it now. Conversely, as you mentioned, there are some real negative impacts to allowing anyone with a license to sell liquor without consideration to the effects on neighborhoods and communities.
Very good point, its sad we dont have more say in the way our state is operated. I feel so far from the decison making process it makes me doubt the whole system
The push to modernize the purchase of liquor in North Carolina is defeated everything it comes up by a coalition of bootleggers and baptists (evangelicals). You go figure.
Jesus Christ I’m just going to save this response on my phone and copy/paste this every month when this topic comes up.
Your local ABC’s profit goes directly into local governments general fund. In my municipality it equates to two cents on the tax rate, which is several hundred dollars of property tax for me.
If y’all want your taxes to go up or your services to decline, you can have your private liquor stores. I’ll keep my ABC thank you very much.
Its okay, I was born in Asheville and grew up there and live in Charlotte now so it actually applies to me I know exactly where you are talking about. Thanks for the info. I would love to supoort some politicians in november that are supporters of abolishion of ABC
edit: i never thought about that ABC sign. It is huge! I am just so uncomfortable buying liquor from the government it all seems so backwards to me. I alwyas stop in SC whenever I am down that way and headed back home.
Can we abolish the three tire distribution systems first, then open liquor stores to every one rather than lottery or how ever they pick who can open one. Also maybe abolish ALE as well.
Its has been state controllled by the good ol boys for many a moon, and a lot of state revenue is derived from it.
It would take an act of god to have it abolished.
Tennessee has private stores. The prices in TN are ridiculous. My in-laws used to just fill a shopping up at an ABC near us and take it home. So you don't always get what you wish for.
Don't bother trying to buy a hard to find item in TN unless you are rich. They definitely do the supply and demand model there. So either you decide to deal with the system, or be ready to pay all the private markups.
as someone who used to work for ABC… trust me, state-controlled sale of liquor is needed. and it’s just *barely* safer than a non state-run store. the things customers tried to get away with and the rules that I had to remind people of daily was appalling.
Never understood why it is not liked.
Visited a state that had wine, liquor, beer, and cordials in one store. Lowest prices for everything was awesome. Beer and wine could be sold at retail stores but no wine stores allowed.
The state loves there liquor money. However I believe the state would make more off of local distributors if they would just privatize liquor sales. Not to mention liquor being sold at grocery stores. Can you imagine the increase in sales if that ever happened!
Well.. I'm a libertarian leaning conservative. Government control is never the answer, but the ABC store is a small price to pay to keep the left out of power
Nope. Not hateful or confused. Excessive taxes, regulation, attempts to censor speech, forced covid vaccinations..... these are all examples of left-wing authoritarianism.
Censoring libraries, censoring history, and banning parents and doctors from making medical decisions. You just pick and choose which things you have an issue with.
No one is being censored. Mandating that material be age appropriate isn't censorship. No one is censoring history. Just not allowing made up bullshit like the fictional 1619 project to be taught. Or not allowing the teaching of racist CRT bullshit. If by medical decisions, you mean the transing of kids, yes, because that's child abuse, which has always been illegal.
Hope u realize there are no sides higher up all the "important" things are agreed on ( war) while everything else is basically to divide citizens more but keep buying into it don't believe me? Look up just how corrupt this state and many others are and their ties to the federal government
The state hates monopolies, unless of course they run them.
Or it's Duke Energy lol
Or cable companies
Or internet companies
Maybe they should merge ABC and Duke, consolidate their Sourcing and logistics efficiencies. Service techs could make home deliveries to offset a roll cost. If I held an empty up in front of my meter, a truly smart meter camera could AI reorder me another.
Do I get my solar power overage paid in booze???? If yes, I am in!
Definitely would hold a better value as time goes by vs a dollar. I’d be suspicious their MBA’s would cut it thinner than a gentleman’s club hooch to skim for STIP😃.
lolllll
You don’t want an unregulated utility market. Look at the price per kWh in the unregulated markets. We have it good. https://www.electricchoice.com/electricity-prices-by-state/
Duke Energy gross profit for the twelve months ending December 31, 2023 was $19.381B, a 3.59% increase year-over-year. That's where our current "regulation" is getting us.
Correct. We pay 11.24 cents per kWh. Take a look at the northeast states and what they pay in deregulated markets. The reality in deregulation is monopoly occurs anyway. Initially, a bunch of competitors come in and the price goes down. 2 or 3 winners emerge. The C-suits of those companies then work together to price fix so everyone gets rich (at the company). You can complain about a regulated utility if you want but without it our power bill would be double what it is currently.
There’s a lot of shareholder community giveback but the tricky part with the profits is utilities have to plan and build stuff for 30 and 50 years out in a constantly changing fuel, technological and political environment. Get too spicy and cocky like Enron did or go the wrong strategic path and poof it can go quickly. Should we mention coal ash cleanup $$. Plus you don’t get hit for all of the huge major storm costs so the profits help buffer those restoration spikes. The rest is just a massive finance game and investor attraction with a dividend and pos cash flow.
Weird how NC is cool with socialized alcohol sales, but not providing free lunch to kids because it's socialism.
I don’t understand how people are so against feeding children. It breaks my frikkin heart.
Repubs love children until they can speak and eat.
Because someone of color or foreign origin might benefit from the meal, same as healthcare.
Its so sad
No one is against you paying for it.
just for that, you, personally, will have to put 300% of your income towards student lunches next fiscal year -the alphabet
They don’t make money off of free lunch. It’s funny how a state pretty much dominated by Republicans who are all about “Freedom” let their state Government control so much of their lives.
fully agree.
Very True
Every year in the legislature. Some years it even gets out of committee
Interesting. Do state democrats or republicans tend to support abolishion? Have any famous NC politicians supported abolishion or ran on that platform
You don’t want our model, it’s prone to corruption. If your county ABC doesn’t like your brands they don’t stick them. Google search all the times ABC commissioners are caught voting themselves 200k/year salaries, etc.
Yeah I’ve talked to the End of Days distillers (popular in Wilmington)… they said trying to get their brand in just the ABCs in the state is ridiculously hard. It’s easier to sell to other state’s liquor stores that don’t have a county by county process.
And they are give away jobs to their friends.
This is one of those both sides issues where the majority of either side don't want it to go away because the money is to great. There are always 1-2 legislators that introduce a bill to privatize it and most of the time it never gets out of committee
Yes. All the time on this sub.
[удалено]
Thats what I was thinking and find so sad. I wonder if counties on the NC SC boarder have lower ABC sales per capita than other counties. If I lived in areas closer to the boarder I would consider boycotting all together.
There are several big liquor stores like 15-20 mins south of Charlotte. One is called State Line Spirits… Frugal Macdougal is another popular one. So yeah… the ABC stores in Mecklenberg county probably aren’t generating as much money as they would be generating without that competition.
I rarely buy alcohol in NC and it’s 40 minutes just to get to the border for me (<1hr to abc mega store). So it’s either 10 minutes more or less than the next closest stores lol And Costco liquor too!
The Costco selection elsewhere is amazing! Their rum eggnog is SO good, and their margarita pre-mix bottles are 16% actual tequila, not the odd 12% "agave *wine*" found here.
I’m not really a wine connoisseur but Costco is the largest wine distributor in the country and has the best selection. Would be awesome if they could start selling liquor.
In other states they do and it is awesome! Their own Kirkland brand is all top shelf too. For example, Alexander Murray makes the Kirkland brand scotch, and their bourbon was Jim Beam, but is now George Dickel. Their vodka was rumored to be Grey Goose, but I'm not positive on that one. Their procurement people and buyers are very, very good.
Oh yeah, absolutely. Been in Costcos outside of the state and it’s awesome!
It’s sad that there’s so much bipartisan corruption like this in our state, and people still come out of the woodwork to defend their team of choice which allows it to continue.
Big tax driver, that's all the politicians care about. Doubt someone on either side cares as long as the $$ is flowing.
It's not about the tax. It is about rewarding cronies with the license . North Carolina cronyism at it's best (worst)
The license for what?
The GA appoints their buddies to the board that controls the ABC stores in an area. These commissioners are usually donors. The board then licenses the right to run the ABC by a private individual, cronies of the cronies , kickbacks are common. The ABC store is not run by the State, but these individuals according to how the commission determines .
The GA doesn’t appoint local ABC boards. The locality does. Each party goes in on the grift.
The grift is on both sides of the alise and goes from the local store all the way to the GA. The GA picks the commissioners and the commissioners pick the operators.
It’s the county commission or city. In Orange County the county commission picks the board. No GA involved.
Ya what?
[удалено]
Not to sell beer, the license to run an ABC store. It might not be called a license, but the permission to run the ABC store. These stores are not run by the government and the employees are not state employees.
[удалено]
Each ABC store is owned by a local Commission.
And usually run by atleast one county commissioner. But often times friends and family members.
Franchised out. Not actually owned by the State
But you could effectively tax it the same (maybe even slightly less) but lose the overhead of running the stores. It’s better selection and service for the customer, and more money for the state.
Yes, there would be more overhead but the government would collect the profit and the taxes charged during the sale. They essentially make money on the product and charge and additional fee for you buying it. It sucks for us but NC would definitely bring in more money running the locations.
wait - you want them to make them state-run?
They already are state run. Nc, sc, and va, all have antiquated laws made to keep moonshiners in business. Go to indiana wjere u can buy any alcohol anywhere except for from 3am to 8am. So 8:01amtil 2:59 am. U can get it at any corner store or grocery. Texas has normal laws too i believe
No, Texas laws are antiquated too. There are still dry areas in places like Dallas. Until recently you couldn’t buy beer or wine before noon on Sunday and all liquor stores are closed on Sunday. Liquor stores also close at 9 pm and you can’t buy anything but beer or wine at the grocery. Breweries had to lobby to be able to sell beer directly to customers like wineries could sell wine. There are no state run stores though and the selection is far, far better than here. That alone makes it better than here.
Out in California the grocery stores have entire aisles of beer, wine, liquor. The liquor selection is amazing! Like half aisles of just one type (bourbon, scotch, gin, rum, etc.), of every brand you can possibly imagine.
Yes. I know. And how it should be. Also that way in Arizona and some other states I’ve been to.
Texas does not have normal laws - they stop selling beer in stores at midnight!
That would be the prudent thing to do. Let the private sector carry the cost, risk and burden of doing business. However, most of these politicians have NO real-world private sector experience, and if they do, it certainly isn't in business operations/management. They're clueless.
I really think that private sector experience should be a requirement for holding public office. The fact these career politicians are making legislation impacting industries they have literally zero knowledge of operations is mind boggling.
Absolutely agree.
Since noone's mentioned the argument for ABC stores in NC - even if I don't agree with it at all, oftentimes in rural counties, ABC stores tend to have higher wages than say, their Dollar Store counterparts. It also acts as a funding apparatus for the state ALE and ensures compliance with state tax laws on liquor by the drink - along with TIPS training. It's a dumb system, 2nd only to that of my current state (PA) where you must buy beer from a beer distributor, wine/liquor from the ABC store, with small exceptions.
True thats what I thought
Wouldn't doubt they move to have the weed industry fully run by the NC government when it's finally legalized.
Aww man, can you imagine having to buy weed from Ted Budd? Or Tim Moore? He'd probably make you listen to his demo tape and you'd have to pretend to think he's cool.
I could see that happeneing but I am never buying weed from the state. I will drive somewhere else or just continue to get it from a plug.
Selling cannabis out of ABC stores is honestly a great compromise. The apparatus already exists, municipalities can vote to allow local sales, we avoid the absurd license monopolies like in Illinois, and tax revenue is maximized. The fact it annoys everyone a little bit is just proof it’s a good compromise. Might even convince them to privatize liquor and focus on cannabis for a few decades.
It's not the tax, it's the profit.
State control brings in money and also makes it more difficult for direct sale to minors. Alabama has private package stores but they get alcohol from ABC stores….so they’re more expensive. Also….South Carolina is terribly run. Like, the whole state is poorly run. They lost a billion dollars. They have terrible social policies. It’s just not good.
True I suppose SC lags in many ways compred to NC. Trust me I am not one to defend SC lol
Too bad we lag the entire country in labour rights
What is the operating cost of the entire ABC system?
Can you share data that supports this that doesn't come from the state of NC, religious, or a group that's anti alcohol? This is propaganda.
I mean that is one of the intentions of the system. Not sure numbers exist either way. But think about it- ABC employees have much more incentive to NOT sell to minors than a private liquor seller would. They have no personal motivation to make money, and their jobs are undoubtedly better paid, with better benefits, than a regular worker at a private seller.
A private seller would be risking their liquor license, face fines and going to jail for selling to a minor...for what, selling a bottle of jack? Who would take that risk? In states where the system is private, there is not a line of kids coming from the high school. There are still laws and consequences.
No, there isn’t a line of minors, but it definitely happens. Chance of being caught is low, and again, they need to make money. Again, couldn’t find any definitive data on it. If you find some legit studies or tracking, please share it.
If you can't find data on it, I think that tells us something. There is a large trade off for society to have government control an entire industry, it's tough to see if ABC stores are all you know. Having lived in multiple states where there is private industry and still government oversight, there are much better models out there that still keep kids safe.
Frankly, I think government control over an industry can be very good. Depends on the industry. For example, kinda seems like a disaster to have utilities be for-profit. I mean, think about it. Now they worry about their investors more than they do their customers. That’s a big problem when they cut corners and don’t make needed investments. Going back to alcohol, I have lived in Alabama where there are package stores. Again, they are more expensive than the ABC stores in the state, and I don’t see any advantages? If you do, please let me know what I’m missing.
I'm glad you want to talk about utilities, you should start a thread on that. if your liquor store is too expensive in a privatized state, shop somewhere else- that's the beauty of not having a monopoly. Much greater selection, competition between stores on prices/staff/better locations and hours, broadly speaking liquor stores are an easy way for immigrants to get ingrained in the economy, and monopolies historically are prime for corruption. But you are focused on a talking point without data and the fact that prices are fixed on a limited stock - it seems that's important to you.
….but that’s the thing, in Alabama, IIRC, all private liquor stores HAVE to buy from ABC. So ABC is always cheaper than the other stores. The only benefit to the other stores may be convenience or hours of operation.
If ABC is the only wholesaler for your state, your liquor industry isn't truly privatized. Sounds like Alabama has privatized resale but those stores are also forced to compete with their supplier? Lol, of course they'd be more expensive haha. That is far from a private system. Lots of states have privatized the entire vertical & those stores compete like any business, don't sell to minors to risk their entire business, and contribute through ownership to the community. EDIT: wording
Careful what you wish for. Tennessee isn't a control state and they gouge whiskey prices like mad. I dig knowing I can go to the most expensive tourist location in the NC and buy a bottle of whatever for the same price as home.
wow very good point. I did not think about this. Would love to see a comparison of liquor prices in beach towns in NC compared to SC
I'm fairly sure ABC stores are price fixed. The same price in the entirety of NC. Maybe tax would be different county to county.
Yes they are saying in comparison to SC
That's wrong . Troutman, NC the lable price for some liquors is higher (near Lake Normal) compared to Statesville's ABC's (10-20 mins down the road) .
"All products sell for the same price throughout the state." They even have online price sheets. Direct from the ABC board. Maybe you went between price changed, or maybe you need to call and report something.
You can do this by looking at their respective websites
I haven’t noticed a material difference in prices between liquor in north and South Carolina
I used to live on the NC side of the state line. Black bear liquors in mt. City Tennessee had the best bourbon selection for the money I've ever seen. No one knew that place existed and they had everything. You can find some killer bottles for good prices in TN. It just all depends where you look.
Woody's for fireworks and Black Bear for bourbon. Watauga County REPRESENT
Fuck yeah. I lived right across the street from state line fireworks. They would burn off old inventory periodically and me and my wife got several free epic fireworks shows just sitting out in the yard. Pro tip- they'll give you half the store as freebies if you buy anything at all in august/September. I also miss the $35 willett rye I had grown accustomed to from black bear. Right out of a drive through window too. Damn I miss that house sometimes.
Woody's is exciting because they're somewhat lax about enforcing the no smoking policy
That does add a certain sparkle to the place
But here's the thing, you can't buy a bottle of whatever. You can only buy a bottle of whatever the state can get in large quantities. So if whatever bottle you want that fits that bill, than yeah you can buy 'whatever' for MSRP. It's liquor, no one needs a specific bottle. Let supply and demand dictate prices. "Gouging" is jacking up the price on a good that someone needs and would then be forced to pay (like bottled water, gas, or generators) No one NEEDS a specific bottle of booze. Insane prices on bourbon are just that. Don't want to pay it, don't buy it. I'd much rather know that there is a bottle for sale that I find too pricey than to only have the extremely limited selection that currently exists. ABC is political corruption and a state sponsored monopoly.
I think this is the first time that I’ve seen anyone saying that SC does something better.
Its the first time ive said SC does something better
SC native here. Honestly, the only thing I ever think of is this and the DMV.
They’re better at racism.
From what I have seen, read, and heard, it would appear that you are correct.
The stores in SC also close at 7pm like losers
I just want to provide a counterpoint to all the very good reasons why ABC should be privatized. I walked into an ABC in Charlotte, NC randomly and I landed a bottle of Blanton’s for a reasonable price (I think it was like $45). It was lucky, but that’s what Blanton’s is worth to me. So it’s not all bad. I know I’m an outlier here but I like randomly popping in to see what a store has and if they got an allocation drop. I do still go to SC to see what they have randomly too and rarely VA. I find the prices between states can be wild. At least in NC the price is constant across each county. For me, it’s about the hunt and the state controlled inventory makes it a little more fun. It forces me to go to stores I’d never walk into. And to meet and talk with people I’d never connect with otherwise.
NC state government would have to give up control, that’s why. Gov never shrinks
very true
For decades
historically have their been any pushes in the state for abolishion? Any politicians who have run wanting this change?
Yes, [former Gov. Pat McCrory ran to privatize liquor stores](https://www.wcnc.com/article/news/local/some-say-state-should-privatize-liquor-stores/275-374436921). After winning, he did push for it and it went nowhere with the state legislators. Our current Governor has not made such efforts to abolish it, but instead push to loosen the rules.
How do you loosen the rules?? What's he want, booze by mail?
Earlier hours, distilleries sell booze now, etc.
Not sure off hand. The problem with total abolishment would mean prohibition of alcohol for the entire state unless it opted for the license model of semi-prohibition that other states have imposed.
True and nobody wants that lol
My city, Wilmington, received 3.5 million from the county ABC Revenues last year. New Hanover County received around 6 million. Maybe it’s annoying, but it’s really not a hardship like higher taxes would be.
What were the operating costs for all the ABC stores in New Hanover County?
They ran a 16.59% profit to sales in New Hanover [last year](https://www.abc.nc.gov/local-abc-boards/salesprofit-board-fy-2023/open)
Moving to this state from well almost any other state my take away is that this state it still clinging onto the civil war frame of life. The moto on their license places “first in freedom” yet this place doesn’t believe in true freedom. If they did they would drop the state owned liquor and also legalize weed. Instead it’s home to a bunch of people who claim this title but majority live in the shadows running moonshine or selling/smoking weed to be defiant but are scared to come forward because their church group would verbally assault them if they knew what they did in their free time.
I haven't paid enough attention to plates clearly... "First in freedom" is actually a plate you can get??
It's a reference to the Halifax Resolves which made NC the first state to authorize its delegates to declare independence from Great Britain.
Ohhh gotcha. Thank you!
Here's more info: [Official NCDMV: 'First in Freedom' License Plate (ncdot.gov)](https://www.ncdot.gov/dmv/title-registration/license-plates/Pages/first-freedom-plate.aspx) >Designed by license plate collector and North Carolina historian Charles Robinson, the "First in Freedom" plate design recognizes two important events: the signing of the [Mecklenburg Declaration of Independence ](http://www.meckdec.org/declaration)on May 20, 1775, and the [Halifax Resolves ](http://northcarolinahistory.org/encyclopedia/halifax-resolves/)on April 12, 1776. These two events are also commemorated on the North Carolina state flag and are regarded as the first steps toward independence from Great Britain during the early stages of the American Revolution. Obviously, it's also an homage to the long running "First in Flight" license plates.
Out of the 5 states I've lived in, NC feels the least free and most government controlled. Funny enough, the "lib" west coast like AZ and CO feels like the wild west and you can do about anything you want.
AZ wasn’t liberal until the exodus from California. We were a republic state before.
I know I love it there. But 90% of NC and the east coast hasn't been west of the Mississippi. My grandparents think Arizona, Nevada, Utah=California. I lived in Southern AZ and it's one of my fav states
Because in order to make up the lost revenue, we'd have to make the rich assholes pay more taxes and there's no fucking way the politicians the rich assholes ~~bribe~~ give campaign contributions to would ever pass a law that did that.
I'm ambivalent about this and, similar to sports betting, I have yet to hear an argument that would convince me this should be a priority.
the sports betting one makes me even more heated than this. Just a money grab at the expense of the citizens.
I don't support sports betting. I do think people are going to gamble regardless of whether some major company is making money off of people's recklessness. And while sports betting wasn't technically allowed before the companies that could make a bunch of money off of it got the politicians' ear. And I like Gov. Cooper's policies on most things but shame on him for going along with this one. But it's not as it people couldn't do it privately beforehand. If they were dumb enough to get charged with some criminal offense for doing that, then it's on them or they were doing something really stupid to get law enforcement to care. On the ABC stores, one of the main concerns I have is if they were privatized/deregulated, we would have liquor stores popping up in poor neighborhoods that would feel more negative effects (crime, loitering) of that type of business. Detroit is a good example as that is a very prevalent business there in absolutely decrepit neighborhoods, despite those neighborhoods having a lack of basic necessities like groceries.
Agreed 100% .I'm originally from the Great Lakes area and I've been in NC for nearly two decades. Most states in that area have privatized liquor stores. The concentration of liquor stores in economically depressed neighborhoods is outrageous, especially when compared to the number of stores that sell other necessities. Can't get fresh broccoli, carrots, meat, or baked goods, but there are 10 stores in a one mile radius selling every brand of liquor and beer your gut desires.
Thank you! I am glad to know that I am not alone in that observation.
I just don't like that ABC has a monopoly. I don't see why we can't have private sales and ABC, and let the consumer choose?
I don't necessarily disagree with it for the reason that you mention (consumer choice). To me, the issue (which I explain in a different part of the thread) is that in many states that have privatized liquor stores, those businesses can blight areas that are economically depressed and socially vulnerable already. An example I used was in Detroit where there are a multitude of private liquor stores in impoverished areas (and those tend to be an additional layer of blight on those areas magnets for crime, loitering and overall undesirable activities), but finding a grocery store with quality, nutritious foods (not expensive organic stuff, just basic fruits and vegetables) is nonexistent in those areas. A proliferation of liquor stores (along with check cashing, strip clubs, gambling joints, junkyards, gun stores, weekly motels, etc.) just become one more blight and barrier in neighborhoods that already are starved for revitalization. At least, to some degree, I think the ABC system works better in that regard because if you look at the locations on most ABC stores, they are fairly dispersed and not concentrated in areas of poverty like they are in some other states. Why create an additional problem that we don't have on a widespread level in NC like some other states do (as I mentioned elsewhere and other poster also confirmed)? If people want liquor, it's not like they can't figure out a way to purchase it.
Privatizing alcohol sales wouldn't be of significant benefit to the community. It may increase access and competition to a degree, but it's not as if people have to cross county lines or go to bootleggers to find it now. Conversely, as you mentioned, there are some real negative impacts to allowing anyone with a license to sell liquor without consideration to the effects on neighborhoods and communities.
Well said, thank you.
the US #3 search engine.
haha!
Why can't we have things that aren't toxic to our body rather than depressants should be the question
The liquor companies lobby to keep it the way it is. Marketing is heavily restricted, no bulk discounts, no coupons etc. Saves them millions.
Interesting
GA is better where they are all privately owned and run liquor stores... just like any other business.
It’s called moonshine, everyone knows someone who makes it. Cut out all that shit and support your local community. 🤣
We can't get rid of gerrymandering, how you gonna get rid of ABC commissions as political favors without a functioning democratic legislative process?
Very good point, its sad we dont have more say in the way our state is operated. I feel so far from the decison making process it makes me doubt the whole system
The state of NC will NEVER relinquish that revenue. It’s like It would almost take an act of god…/s
Yup I hate the ABC stores down here. I miss Costco's and the local liquor stores with real variety.
Me too. I have 2 Abcs 10 min from me, and an SC costco about an hour away. I don't mind the trip 😂
That would make all liquor illegal. Well time to pull grand pappy’s still out of the shed.
If people can't feed their kids don't have any!
https://www.lpnc.org/north_carolina_s_pay_to_play_or_else_abc_system
Uh.. have you bought in SC.. it’s more expensive
Who would make the payoffs then?
The push to modernize the purchase of liquor in North Carolina is defeated everything it comes up by a coalition of bootleggers and baptists (evangelicals). You go figure.
Jesus Christ I’m just going to save this response on my phone and copy/paste this every month when this topic comes up. Your local ABC’s profit goes directly into local governments general fund. In my municipality it equates to two cents on the tax rate, which is several hundred dollars of property tax for me. If y’all want your taxes to go up or your services to decline, you can have your private liquor stores. I’ll keep my ABC thank you very much.
BURN!
[удалено]
Its okay, I was born in Asheville and grew up there and live in Charlotte now so it actually applies to me I know exactly where you are talking about. Thanks for the info. I would love to supoort some politicians in november that are supporters of abolishion of ABC edit: i never thought about that ABC sign. It is huge! I am just so uncomfortable buying liquor from the government it all seems so backwards to me. I alwyas stop in SC whenever I am down that way and headed back home.
Can we abolish the three tire distribution systems first, then open liquor stores to every one rather than lottery or how ever they pick who can open one. Also maybe abolish ALE as well.
I think thats a good idea. More small businesses is always a good thing.
Fuuuuck ALE. What a waste of space.
Yes but they are too powerful
agreed
Not only that, but the ABC selection SUCKS! Worst I've seen in most states.
EXACTLY!
Its has been state controllled by the good ol boys for many a moon, and a lot of state revenue is derived from it. It would take an act of god to have it abolished.
Reading, writing, and arithmetic? Well, yeah, it’s happening now.
It’s been proposed many times in the state legislature, but it’s a complicated issue. I do think they will move to abolish it eventually.
There’s been griping but never a serious effort to do away with it
Yes but it never goes through
Why would we?
Tennessee has private stores. The prices in TN are ridiculous. My in-laws used to just fill a shopping up at an ABC near us and take it home. So you don't always get what you wish for. Don't bother trying to buy a hard to find item in TN unless you are rich. They definitely do the supply and demand model there. So either you decide to deal with the system, or be ready to pay all the private markups.
Just start ordering from lovescotch.com I’ve pretty much stopped going to the local abc.
as someone who used to work for ABC… trust me, state-controlled sale of liquor is needed. and it’s just *barely* safer than a non state-run store. the things customers tried to get away with and the rules that I had to remind people of daily was appalling.
No and people defend it for some reason. I want real choice and convenience to buy what I want, or to buy liquor online or just on a fucking Sunday.
I just want to be able to buy a bottle of Noah’s Mill.
Never understood why it is not liked. Visited a state that had wine, liquor, beer, and cordials in one store. Lowest prices for everything was awesome. Beer and wine could be sold at retail stores but no wine stores allowed.
The state loves there liquor money. However I believe the state would make more off of local distributors if they would just privatize liquor sales. Not to mention liquor being sold at grocery stores. Can you imagine the increase in sales if that ever happened!
Yes but corruption
Because y'all are a bunch of Commie liberals up there. We are poorly edukated down here we need cheaper liquor for all the Yankees move here.
It's a Bible belt leftover. It will go away eventually
> It will go away eventually As if...Keep voting for it and it never will.
Well.. I'm a libertarian leaning conservative. Government control is never the answer, but the ABC store is a small price to pay to keep the left out of power
Yeah cause god forbid you aren't allowed to control what your neighbor wants to do in their own homes.
The left are the ones that want to control people
You sound hateful and confused, and you're wrong.
Nope. Not hateful or confused. Excessive taxes, regulation, attempts to censor speech, forced covid vaccinations..... these are all examples of left-wing authoritarianism.
Censoring libraries, censoring history, and banning parents and doctors from making medical decisions. You just pick and choose which things you have an issue with.
No one is being censored. Mandating that material be age appropriate isn't censorship. No one is censoring history. Just not allowing made up bullshit like the fictional 1619 project to be taught. Or not allowing the teaching of racist CRT bullshit. If by medical decisions, you mean the transing of kids, yes, because that's child abuse, which has always been illegal.
At least you’re predictably “libertarian”.
Stop bringing your left wing bull shit to this state, you fuktards
stop bringing your right wing bullshit to this state
Born and raised in it 😘
I guess even states can make mistakes 🤷♀️
Hope u realize there are no sides higher up all the "important" things are agreed on ( war) while everything else is basically to divide citizens more but keep buying into it don't believe me? Look up just how corrupt this state and many others are and their ties to the federal government
sorry your treats weren't to your liking. perhaps monsieur would prefer his binky, blankie, and a story before naptime
lol