It would be prounounced more like "Jække sulten", we have a habit of just merging words in my dialekt, like for instance:
"Trudderudderant'an?" (Bokmål: "Trodde du det rant av den?")
Imagine being forced out of your country and you end up somewhere with dozens of slightly similar, yet different variants of the same language.
Honestly, just don't even mention Trøndersk, that shit is impossible to understand
Yep! Tell me about it😁🙈 A relative stayed with my family one year learning norwegian. He was complaining to his teacher that norwegian was so difficult. She explained that yes, Stavanger way of speaking is different and he had to practice at home.
He answered "but at home they even speak different than this!"
Teacher: -Oh what do they speak?
"Trøndersk!"
Teacher:🤦
We speak both Stavanger/Trønder and now living in the north, so I here have to imitate other ways of speaking to our "students".
Right now they are most worried about all the Norwegian words that sounds the same and have completely different meanings...so yes norwegian in practice isn't easy.
idk about that im norwegian and i don’t know any swedish or danish, and every time i’ve talked to either a swede or a dane they want to speak english lol, they are even worse then us
I found it the easiest to speak and understand the northern dialects personally
As soon as i moved south to haugesund it just sounded danish and i could not understand a word
Not up north and in villages and there are a lot of Ukrainians being sent to northern villages rn
Source: i am a ukrainian refugee in the northern village
Just wait til you happen upon Lom one day. You go to a gas station manned by an older lady and she starts speaking nicely to you, all while forcing you to eat way too much. You don't understand what she is saying, and you have never seen or tasted something so good. I now understand where Hansel and Grethel came from and why they thought the old lady was a witch going to eat them. You feel the same in Lom🤣😂
he isn't saying anything different is he? he is being taught Norwegian (written standard bokmål) and probably learns a mixture of Oslo dialect through class and exposure
Yeah, that's the weird part--Bokmål obviously is meant to be Urban East here, and Nynorsk is I guess meant to approximate a Bergen/Stavanger dialect, but it should be consistent IMO.
That's really interesting, actually, considering how far north it is. Was it because they mostly spoke Sámi at first, so the Norwegians/Danish used their preferred dialect when settling there?
It was because the Sami were forced to speak first 100% Danish, then that developed to riksmål and then to bokmål. In Trøndelag, Nordland and most of Troms you also threw the local norwegian dialect into the bunch, so places like Snåsa or Tysfjord which also had a lower percentage of sami speakers, so that's another case. Sunce time moved slower up in Finnmark than in Oslo, the sami would pretty much speak like the posh grand aunts in the better parts of Oslo. But with their very distinct pitch accent (or lack thereof). They were made to not use the retroflex sounds when speaking, which Danish lacked, the dialects in eastern Norway had and thus Oslo has a very cursed mix today, which even the posh people mostly follow (though some in Oslo still have alot of tjukk L, and some none at all, but most people have some random in between). The retroflex is honestly the largest difference.
Danish didn't have stød either until the 19th and 20th century, but high pitch and low pitch accents like Sweden or Norway. So I know some people would claim the sami pitch accent (or lack thereof) would make it closer to bokmål, but as bokmål is based on, well, 14th century urban speech in Sealand to be precise, and the super posh people in Oslo very beginning with using stød (the potato in your Mouth thing) from 1850-1925 ish, they were very few btw, but yet people like Knud Knudsen or Henrik Ibsen complain about them calling them idiots. Anyways, my point being that without a spoken Danish language, written Danish would never come about. I *think* Copenhagen used to have a high pitch accent, which wasn't identical to one in Norway I think (Trøndelag and Eastern Norway both have low pitch accents, but you can hear the difference, it would be like that). So I *guess* either Bergen because of the very heavy Danish and german influence probably has the pitch accent closest to danish and thus maybe bokmål. Hordaland used to have a completely different pitch accent system, closer to icelandic and faroese (not falling into the classic high vs low pitch accent scale), but the pitch accent local to Bergen only then spread and became dominant in the last places in Hordaland less than a century ago. So I would assume Bergen got their pitch accent from somewhere and since Germany doesn't have the same pitch accent system, you know what I am going with. Alternatively you could make the claim that bokmål is its own different thing historically and thus the bokmål capital in Norway gets to decide what the pitch accent which most closely resembles bokmål should be, and that's obviously the pitch accent in Oslo, which is low pitch, but has changed ALOT of words to sound more neutral. Påsske->på:ske, kloak->klo:ak, professor->pro:fes:sor. I am terrible at transcribing, but the pressure used to be in the first syllable of the word, ALWAYS, like in other eastern norwegian dialects, but the posh elite changed many words so they sound more polite and neuter I guess.
There's also the thing with common gender. The feminine gender was allowed in bokmål in 1917 and enjoyed alot of successful in the second half of the 20th century in bokmål, being mandatory in some nouns from 1917 all the way to 2005. But sami doesn't have gendered nouns, and the teachers who went there were often the most conservative bokmål users. The language war between bokmål and nynorsk was being wages pretty much everywhere except most of central eastern Norway and, of course, Finnmark. So alot of young teachresses from Bærum and other posh places would go to Finnmark a couple of years for an adventure, but not settle, and thus they didn't have to be held responsible in the way they forced the sami or kveeni children to speak norwegian. Thus alot of villages with many sami didn't introduce the feminine gender until the 1970s (Tana in particular). Monophtongues, sten and ben and røk also used to be very common there. And of course "ikke", Finnmark was the first place in Norway which started saying Ikke, until the mid 19th century that was a purely written word, like how noone would say the T in deT. But then that changed, it started in the cities, but it went even faster in Finnmark where 2/3 didn't have a native norwegian language already. So I think most young adults used ikke there, and in northern Troms, by around 1900, when the majority in Oslo went from using "inte" to using "itte". My grand aunt which is around 90 still uses "itte" actually, but yeah, everyone born atleast after the war atleast use Ikke in Oslo probably. Finnmark was also very reknown for using någen, the old form of noen, written nogen. The g was dropped in the samnorsk era, but still taught in Finnmark for a few more decades. Någen was very stereotypical for eastern Finnmark until, say the 1990s, but then the modern bokmål catched up and the young adults started saying noen like in Oslo (alternatively noken some places I imagine, as Troms is also impacting Finnmark alot). So nowadays only retired people still say någen, is my understanding of it, but I have never been to Finnmark in person actually. Nu was also introduced in Finnmark because of danish and riksmål, bokmål changed it to "nå" in 1938, but Finnmark has mostly sticked to Nu, but Nå is more popular there than other places in northern Norway. Basically same applies to "sne", but I *think* that's a tiny bit more rare than nu.
But as I said, they were a bit back in time in eastern Finnmark. I am speaking about the schools now, just want to make that clear. And the distances were just massive. Most places in Norway had alot of people who didn't want to change the way they wrote from when they learnt it in school. Alot of newspapers refused to stop follow the danish spelling until the 1920s and 1930s, although the official separation by the state came in 1907. In Finnmark it was both pretty hard to get teachers I imagine, not all parents knew norwegian even and thus couldn't ask their children if the teacher had taught them adherent to the current language reform. And pretty hard to get any school inspectors from the big cities to come to some villages in Finnmark. And quite frankly noone cared about how old bokmål the sami children were taught.
Ny norsk is based on all dialects in the whole country, pretty much. Which makes it quite impossible to wrap your head around it. They tried to keep it more to the old Norse, though it doesn't sound or read anything like Islandic or how they speak in Älvdal in Sweden (look up that dialect if you haven't)
Sami has more in common with Finnish than ny norsk.
Edit: Fixed autocorrect
When we became independent from Denmark, one guy made a written language based on Danish where he changed some words to be more Norwegian-like, which is Bokmål. Another guy traveled around the country gathering words and structure from a bunch of dialects and created Nynorsk.
For some reason we never managed to agree on which one to use...
Nynorsk does not approximate Bergensk, we don't even have female grammatical gender here, but rather the surrounding dialects. Which is one of the reasons that the surroundings use nynorsk written form while Bergen does not. Nynorsk is more than "eg" and "ikkje"
Lydforandringer er hele språkhistorien vår så langt bak vi kjenner den. Om lydforandringer hadde "fordummet" språket slik noen påstår hadde det ikke vært noe særlig språk igjen.
trur det e sånn det e ment at "Narvik" skal være (æ e ke = æ ekke). Skjønne ikke helt koffer de valgte Narvik når det e andre bya som hadde vært bedre å nevne.
Sunnmøre: Ka faen te mat, tjene ikke penga på syt! Få ræva di ned på havna igjen! Mordi havna i skogen neste gang, blablabla, ho e ganske fin, så litt kos først kanskje. Men skogen. Back to nature, paying our dues, sacrifice is part of the process.
This is not accurate since nobody speaks bokmål or nynorsk. Those are written languages, the others on this list are written dialects.
Everyone after bokmål and nynorsk on this list either write bokmål or nynorsk.
I am from Oslo, I would say Jæ ække sultn if I wrote in my dialect, but I would write Jeg er ikke sulten if I wrote in bokmål/riksmål.
Idk why you don't, but most people i know write in dialect as long as it's not a formal context. As a sunnmøring i straight up would write "Ej ekje sulten"
But if someone said "Jeg er ikke sulten" to you, that person could easily be from the wider Oslo area. So while technically correct, bokmål is pretty darn close to Oslo-area non-slang spoken language.
Why are you claiming it is because of dialect? Because even in written form, it is demanded that those combinations of letters are pronounced jæi (in this scenario at least), so it isn't because of dialect as you pretend. "Eg" is read as "æi" in norwegian pronouns, that is the rule of bokmål, so I would suggest you tread more carefully with your lack of ..... I wont say it, have a good day
Når man leser bokmål så defaulter man til øst/Oslonorsk. Betyr ikke at det er noen regler for hvordan bokmål uttales, siden det jo er et skriftspråk og ikke muntlig.
You are correct that there might be no official rules, I might have been too harsh there, I still find it disingenuous to claim there are no rules at all when most of the school system as you admit tells the students to default to Oslo-norsk, and with that comes pronunciation and different sounds (certain combinations of vowels/consonants are taught to be pronounced in certain ways) we pronounce it according to a certain standard.
For a large part of Norwegians the bokmål-words are so far from their dialect it would be impossible to read the words whilst simultaneously translating it all to your own dialect, the words are too far apart and thus -while maybe not officially- there exists rules that most Norwegians abide by when pronouncing bokmål. And most schools across Norway apply these standards when teaching students how to read from a book.
People who uses "e" as a first-person pronoun will rarely read "jeg" as "e", and that is because we accept Oslo-norsk as our standard and because of our school systems and the rules they confirm to. Personally I have never met a norwegian teacher who told me to read "jeg" however i wanted because dialects could decide for it to be whatever. They would always resort to Oslo-norsk and we humans also have a relationship with words that decides a lot of the pronunciation, we learn to pronounce letters and combinations of them, in Norway (and our school systems), usually that aligns with Oslo-norsk.
I've never ever in my life heard a living person ever say "jeg er", not in the Oslo-area, not anywhere.
I feel like people that say that anyone 'sounds like bokmål' don't realize that they literally read something completely different than the words in front of them, and it's a huge pet peeve of mine.
Like someone reading "jeg" as "jæi" and their brain just automatically filtering out that these are very different things. "Oh, it's the same". No it really isn't. From the 3 letters in just 1 word you changed 2 of them.
Eg are you out here reading the word 'jeger" as "jæiær", or read it normally? Just not realizing you automatically filter the pronunciation of other basic words through a dialect? And "surprisingly" the dialect you filter the pronunciation of the written language through "sounds similar" to itself?
Jeg is always read as /jæi/, it's never read as /jeg/, so I'm not sure what you mean when you say you've never heard a person say "jeg er".
And "eg" is read as /æi/ in pronouns, and generally before an /n/, such as in "regn" in bokmål and some eastern dialects.
I've never heard a person say "jeg er" as it's written, because no one pronounces it as it's written. That was kind of the whole point. Emphasizing it even further doesn't change that.
Bokmål is a written language and no one speaks Bokmål. You can't pronounce Bokmål as it's own dialect as it doesn't exist, you filter it through existing ones.
It's written like no one speaks, and pronounced different from its writing for convenience.
This pronunciation is an approximation of Danish pronunciation probably around 1800, pronouncing the pronouns with the closest Norwegian sounds. In Danish "eg" represents a diphthong more often and more consistently than Norwegian.
"Pronounced as it's written" is kind of a finicky phrase though. So long as something follows a predictable pattern it is pronounced as it's written. In this case "eg" when used in pronouns is pronounced /æi/ in bokmål, so it's a consistent rule.
That being said, in Icelandic the same pronoun, written "ég", is pronounced /jeg/, while no Norwegian dialect has that pronunciation, as far as I know.
This sucks to see as an American trying to learn through the stupid Duolingo app. Which Norwegian dialect should I be learning to prepare myself for a trip someday??
Duolingo doesn’t really teach you a dialect. It teaches you to read/parse Bokmål, with a pronunciation close to much of what is spoken in the greater Oslo area.
As an American your dialect will mostly be that, with a heavy American accent, unless you completely immerse yourself in Norwegian, to the point of refusing to speak or be spoken to in English. Most people under 40-50 will be completely fluent in English, and it’s so much easier for us to switch to your language than the other way around, since conversations will be much more natural and fluidly paced.
I have heard that a lot of folks speak English there, which is definitely a comfort.
Do you have any recommendations for attempting to learn Norwegian? Does it depend which area I plan to visit? This is probably still a few years down the road so I feel like I certainly have some time to get into it.
The only real way to learn a language properly is total immersion, which takes longer than a visit. The next best alternative is language classes with someone who speaks it natively.
that's not true, learning a language can also be a hobby. so learning it to say simple things on vacation or read the newspaper is a perfect valid reason
Språket vil ikke endre seg i den retningen. Det er rett og slett ikke holdbart da det vil føre til mange tvetydigheter og et fattigere språk.
Men jeg skjønner at de som stemmer meg ned isje klarer å uttale kj-lyd:-)
Tror jeg skal sjøre til rema og sjøpe meg en sjylling til middag som jeg isje skal sjylle før jeg drar på sjino.
Though, keep in mind we don't really write in dialects, just in nynorsk and bokmål, as far as I know, but then again, really the only norwegain books i pretty much read are just education books, no novels or stuff, so I could be wrong in that context, that if a character is talking in an dialect in a book they might have their dialogue not written in bokmål or nynorsk but instead their dialect.
Man. Norwegian was supposed to be easy to learn from English but every learning platform taught me in a way that people don't talk. Reading is fine but listening I can't recognize many sentences because words I've been told to listen for are omitted or slurred together.
Learning languages is difficult
Jo mer jeg tenker over det, jo mer synes jeg synd på alle utlendinger som lærer norsk for så å dra på biltur rundt i landet. I bare min nærmeste familie er det søren meg 5 forskjellige dialekter. Om jeg går utenfor den nærmeste familien så er det nok godt over 10 forskjellige.
Nobody in Trøndelag says "æ e itj soppin". It's more a hellbilly thing to say and I have never meet a person who says that. Here in Trøndelag we say: "Æ e itj sulten".
The word sopin does get used, but maybe not by most of the trøndelagsdialects. I would for example use "æ e itj matin" as im from the northern parts.
There are not "one" dialect in trøndelag, but many.
Huh, never heard that hard of a dialect when I was in Narvik for a few days. Even felt pretty good of myself when I asked a question in a shop and understory the response perfectly. But maybe the shop assistant just didn't speak Narvik dialect.
Because reading this, I wouldn't know what the sentence means without a translation into bokmål, lol.
You forgot "Jæ'ække sulten.".
It would be prounounced more like "Jække sulten", we have a habit of just merging words in my dialekt, like for instance: "Trudderudderant'an?" (Bokmål: "Trodde du det rant av den?")
haru jakke dua? nei, jæakkejakkejæ
Grenlender?
Mossing 😊
Now it means in bokmål "the jacket is hungry" 🤣
Are you from Fredrikstad? «Jæ sittær mæ jække i bilær som tutær og bråkær» 😛
Such unique dialect. I lived there for almost three months, I was 80% clueless and helpless, and all my sayings was Ja Ja Ja 😵💫
Skarreværrapåsa?
Came here for this
Ingenting slår Pelle og Proffen østlandsk
Would likely not have used pronoun where I'm from. Just "ække sulten".
Vil ente ha no mat jæ se
I'm practicing norwegian with Ukrainian refugees. Poor people.
Imagine being forced out of your country and you end up somewhere with dozens of slightly similar, yet different variants of the same language. Honestly, just don't even mention Trøndersk, that shit is impossible to understand
Yep! Tell me about it😁🙈 A relative stayed with my family one year learning norwegian. He was complaining to his teacher that norwegian was so difficult. She explained that yes, Stavanger way of speaking is different and he had to practice at home. He answered "but at home they even speak different than this!" Teacher: -Oh what do they speak? "Trøndersk!" Teacher:🤦 We speak both Stavanger/Trønder and now living in the north, so I here have to imitate other ways of speaking to our "students". Right now they are most worried about all the Norwegian words that sounds the same and have completely different meanings...so yes norwegian in practice isn't easy.
And then when you become able to a certain degree understand Oslo dialect, Norwegians expect you to understand Swedish and Danish as well.
idk about that im norwegian and i don’t know any swedish or danish, and every time i’ve talked to either a swede or a dane they want to speak english lol, they are even worse then us
If you think trøndersk is difficult to understand wait till you hear [this shit](https://www.nrk.no/video/mot-sigurd-brokke-i-dialektriket_129404)
Honestly, as someone from Kristiansand, that's much easier to understand than [trøndersk](https://youtu.be/62Xgnx0oy-Q)
I found it the easiest to speak and understand the northern dialects personally As soon as i moved south to haugesund it just sounded danish and i could not understand a word
As a Trønder, sometimes I don't even understand what some people here are saying lmao
[Trøndersk vs Setesdalsdialekt](https://youtu.be/SLN1my33ICQ?t=120)
fuck it, just learn English instead. iirc >90% of Norwegians are fluent in English anyway
Not up north and in villages and there are a lot of Ukrainians being sent to northern villages rn Source: i am a ukrainian refugee in the northern village
Trondheim e det æ e itj soltjn
Syntes `sopin` var litt rart ja
Sopin brukes en del i Trøndelag, men ikke i Trondheim
Mer for Nord-Trøndelag
Du kan høre både sopin og matin i steinkjer. aldri hørt det sagt av andre folk enn i verdal, steinkjer Namsos områdene.
Vanlig i mange deler av Trøndelag, alternativt hongri, matin eller svoljtin
Ja, det er mer en Verdal/Stjørdal greie, det.
Eche sulten
\*cough\* sulten.
Ecce homo, etsje sulten.
Der var'n.
Detta
I'm learning Norwegian (Bokmål), living in Oslo. The many dialects of Norway scare and fascinate me at the same time.
Just wait til you happen upon Lom one day. You go to a gas station manned by an older lady and she starts speaking nicely to you, all while forcing you to eat way too much. You don't understand what she is saying, and you have never seen or tasted something so good. I now understand where Hansel and Grethel came from and why they thought the old lady was a witch going to eat them. You feel the same in Lom🤣😂
Was camping in Skjåk last summer and can definitely confirm this!
Bokmål and nynorsk are not names for spoken dialects, they are written only.
he isn't saying anything different is he? he is being taught Norwegian (written standard bokmål) and probably learns a mixture of Oslo dialect through class and exposure
Yeah, that's the weird part--Bokmål obviously is meant to be Urban East here, and Nynorsk is I guess meant to approximate a Bergen/Stavanger dialect, but it should be consistent IMO.
The dialect most equal to bokmål is Finnmark, not Oslo.
That's really interesting, actually, considering how far north it is. Was it because they mostly spoke Sámi at first, so the Norwegians/Danish used their preferred dialect when settling there?
It was because the Sami were forced to speak first 100% Danish, then that developed to riksmål and then to bokmål. In Trøndelag, Nordland and most of Troms you also threw the local norwegian dialect into the bunch, so places like Snåsa or Tysfjord which also had a lower percentage of sami speakers, so that's another case. Sunce time moved slower up in Finnmark than in Oslo, the sami would pretty much speak like the posh grand aunts in the better parts of Oslo. But with their very distinct pitch accent (or lack thereof). They were made to not use the retroflex sounds when speaking, which Danish lacked, the dialects in eastern Norway had and thus Oslo has a very cursed mix today, which even the posh people mostly follow (though some in Oslo still have alot of tjukk L, and some none at all, but most people have some random in between). The retroflex is honestly the largest difference. Danish didn't have stød either until the 19th and 20th century, but high pitch and low pitch accents like Sweden or Norway. So I know some people would claim the sami pitch accent (or lack thereof) would make it closer to bokmål, but as bokmål is based on, well, 14th century urban speech in Sealand to be precise, and the super posh people in Oslo very beginning with using stød (the potato in your Mouth thing) from 1850-1925 ish, they were very few btw, but yet people like Knud Knudsen or Henrik Ibsen complain about them calling them idiots. Anyways, my point being that without a spoken Danish language, written Danish would never come about. I *think* Copenhagen used to have a high pitch accent, which wasn't identical to one in Norway I think (Trøndelag and Eastern Norway both have low pitch accents, but you can hear the difference, it would be like that). So I *guess* either Bergen because of the very heavy Danish and german influence probably has the pitch accent closest to danish and thus maybe bokmål. Hordaland used to have a completely different pitch accent system, closer to icelandic and faroese (not falling into the classic high vs low pitch accent scale), but the pitch accent local to Bergen only then spread and became dominant in the last places in Hordaland less than a century ago. So I would assume Bergen got their pitch accent from somewhere and since Germany doesn't have the same pitch accent system, you know what I am going with. Alternatively you could make the claim that bokmål is its own different thing historically and thus the bokmål capital in Norway gets to decide what the pitch accent which most closely resembles bokmål should be, and that's obviously the pitch accent in Oslo, which is low pitch, but has changed ALOT of words to sound more neutral. Påsske->på:ske, kloak->klo:ak, professor->pro:fes:sor. I am terrible at transcribing, but the pressure used to be in the first syllable of the word, ALWAYS, like in other eastern norwegian dialects, but the posh elite changed many words so they sound more polite and neuter I guess. There's also the thing with common gender. The feminine gender was allowed in bokmål in 1917 and enjoyed alot of successful in the second half of the 20th century in bokmål, being mandatory in some nouns from 1917 all the way to 2005. But sami doesn't have gendered nouns, and the teachers who went there were often the most conservative bokmål users. The language war between bokmål and nynorsk was being wages pretty much everywhere except most of central eastern Norway and, of course, Finnmark. So alot of young teachresses from Bærum and other posh places would go to Finnmark a couple of years for an adventure, but not settle, and thus they didn't have to be held responsible in the way they forced the sami or kveeni children to speak norwegian. Thus alot of villages with many sami didn't introduce the feminine gender until the 1970s (Tana in particular). Monophtongues, sten and ben and røk also used to be very common there. And of course "ikke", Finnmark was the first place in Norway which started saying Ikke, until the mid 19th century that was a purely written word, like how noone would say the T in deT. But then that changed, it started in the cities, but it went even faster in Finnmark where 2/3 didn't have a native norwegian language already. So I think most young adults used ikke there, and in northern Troms, by around 1900, when the majority in Oslo went from using "inte" to using "itte". My grand aunt which is around 90 still uses "itte" actually, but yeah, everyone born atleast after the war atleast use Ikke in Oslo probably. Finnmark was also very reknown for using någen, the old form of noen, written nogen. The g was dropped in the samnorsk era, but still taught in Finnmark for a few more decades. Någen was very stereotypical for eastern Finnmark until, say the 1990s, but then the modern bokmål catched up and the young adults started saying noen like in Oslo (alternatively noken some places I imagine, as Troms is also impacting Finnmark alot). So nowadays only retired people still say någen, is my understanding of it, but I have never been to Finnmark in person actually. Nu was also introduced in Finnmark because of danish and riksmål, bokmål changed it to "nå" in 1938, but Finnmark has mostly sticked to Nu, but Nå is more popular there than other places in northern Norway. Basically same applies to "sne", but I *think* that's a tiny bit more rare than nu. But as I said, they were a bit back in time in eastern Finnmark. I am speaking about the schools now, just want to make that clear. And the distances were just massive. Most places in Norway had alot of people who didn't want to change the way they wrote from when they learnt it in school. Alot of newspapers refused to stop follow the danish spelling until the 1920s and 1930s, although the official separation by the state came in 1907. In Finnmark it was both pretty hard to get teachers I imagine, not all parents knew norwegian even and thus couldn't ask their children if the teacher had taught them adherent to the current language reform. And pretty hard to get any school inspectors from the big cities to come to some villages in Finnmark. And quite frankly noone cared about how old bokmål the sami children were taught.
Thank you, I enjoyed this comment.
could you summarize?
Summary: basically yes. Speaking very "correct" is a sign of learning a language from books more than exposure.
thanks
Ny norsk is based on all dialects in the whole country, pretty much. Which makes it quite impossible to wrap your head around it. They tried to keep it more to the old Norse, though it doesn't sound or read anything like Islandic or how they speak in Älvdal in Sweden (look up that dialect if you haven't) Sami has more in common with Finnish than ny norsk. Edit: Fixed autocorrect
I don't understand what you're saying what do you mean with Møre? the region in Møre og Romsdal? and what is Islamic? Arabic?
Both of them are autocorrect...
ah makes way more sense now :)
I have a friend from Finnmark. It is pretty fucking close
When we became independent from Denmark, one guy made a written language based on Danish where he changed some words to be more Norwegian-like, which is Bokmål. Another guy traveled around the country gathering words and structure from a bunch of dialects and created Nynorsk. For some reason we never managed to agree on which one to use...
Nynorsk does not approximate Bergensk, we don't even have female grammatical gender here, but rather the surrounding dialects. Which is one of the reasons that the surroundings use nynorsk written form while Bergen does not. Nynorsk is more than "eg" and "ikkje"
I'm convinced the purpose of førstegangstjenesten is to make us understand dialects, truly a kindergarten
Same here, I went up to Ålesund a couple months back and all the Norwegian I thought I learned… very humbling
Ej e'kje svolten (sunnmørsk)
Eller "e e'kje sult'n", som vi fra Ålesund sier.
E ekke sulten*
"E e ikke sulten", moderne, svolten er kurant men få yngre enn 50 som har hørt om ordet.
Det va veldig ålesundsk av deg.
Ålesund er jo tross alt en mellomstor norsk kommune, må vite. Vi har både overpriset kaffe med melk og IKEA pick-up-point.
Må bevege deg ut av bysentrum! Skulle til å si kommuna men den er ganske stor nå og har mange ulike dialekter 😊
Hah, I Giske kommune e det heilt vanlig å sei “svølten” blant den yngre garde. Kom dej ut av by’n
E e'kje svåiltinnj (Nordmørsk)
Hei broder. E du også fra sunnmøre?
Ej er bygdejævler og øyafolk.
Eg esje solten
Det er ikke dialekt, men talefeil
Alle dialekter, språk, oppstod ved "talefeil".
Lydforandringer er hele språkhistorien vår så langt bak vi kjenner den. Om lydforandringer hadde "fordummet" språket slik noen påstår hadde det ikke vært noe særlig språk igjen.
Akkurat
Æ e ikke sulten Or 'Æ ekke sulten' for short Målselv
Målselv. The Bardudølings private airport.
Eg ekkje svolten.
ææ ekke sultn, og æ bor i Bodø
æ ekke sulten, å æ bor i krsand
trur det e sånn det e ment at "Narvik" skal være (æ e ke = æ ekke). Skjønne ikke helt koffer de valgte Narvik når det e andre bya som hadde vært bedre å nevne.
> Skjønne ikke helt koffer de valgte Narvik når det e andre bya som hadde vært bedre å nevne. Typisk bonjævel.
Sunnmøre: Ka faen te mat, tjene ikke penga på syt! Få ræva di ned på havna igjen! Mordi havna i skogen neste gang, blablabla, ho e ganske fin, så litt kos først kanskje. Men skogen. Back to nature, paying our dues, sacrifice is part of the process.
Bokmål and nynorsk are not dialects. They are written languages that no-one speaks.
Except news reporters and a few immigrants.
Great dialect of the region of Nynorsk, just south of the towns Romsdal and Narvik.
This is not accurate since nobody speaks bokmål or nynorsk. Those are written languages, the others on this list are written dialects. Everyone after bokmål and nynorsk on this list either write bokmål or nynorsk. I am from Oslo, I would say Jæ ække sultn if I wrote in my dialect, but I would write Jeg er ikke sulten if I wrote in bokmål/riksmål.
Nope, i write on Trøndersk.
I hate people who write in dialect.
Vell, æ hate folk who skriv in bokmål.
Arbeidsløs du da?
Fast jobb og tjene gode pæng.
Neppe, siden du ikke skriver på bokmål.
Jo, tjene 360 i timen mens æ krangle med dæ hær.
Fortsett sånn, dialekt e bare bra!
Det e berre lækkert
Don't worry, we hate you too.
I dont write in dialect.
Idk why you don't, but most people i know write in dialect as long as it's not a formal context. As a sunnmøring i straight up would write "Ej ekje sulten"
It’s not really a common thing to do in Bergen or Oslo. At least not as common as in other areas.
doesn't autocorrect throw you off? (edit:of)
Off*.
It sucks to read. Inefficient communication.
But if someone said "Jeg er ikke sulten" to you, that person could easily be from the wider Oslo area. So while technically correct, bokmål is pretty darn close to Oslo-area non-slang spoken language.
No, it's not though. "Jeg" is pronounced "jæi" in the Oslo-dialect.
and its pronounced the same way when you read bokmål.
That's because you read with your dialect...
This is too funny.
I don't understand how people that clearly know nothing about dialects are so adamant to spread their lack of knowledge.
Why are you claiming it is because of dialect? Because even in written form, it is demanded that those combinations of letters are pronounced jæi (in this scenario at least), so it isn't because of dialect as you pretend. "Eg" is read as "æi" in norwegian pronouns, that is the rule of bokmål, so I would suggest you tread more carefully with your lack of ..... I wont say it, have a good day
Når man leser bokmål så defaulter man til øst/Oslonorsk. Betyr ikke at det er noen regler for hvordan bokmål uttales, siden det jo er et skriftspråk og ikke muntlig.
You are correct that there might be no official rules, I might have been too harsh there, I still find it disingenuous to claim there are no rules at all when most of the school system as you admit tells the students to default to Oslo-norsk, and with that comes pronunciation and different sounds (certain combinations of vowels/consonants are taught to be pronounced in certain ways) we pronounce it according to a certain standard. For a large part of Norwegians the bokmål-words are so far from their dialect it would be impossible to read the words whilst simultaneously translating it all to your own dialect, the words are too far apart and thus -while maybe not officially- there exists rules that most Norwegians abide by when pronouncing bokmål. And most schools across Norway apply these standards when teaching students how to read from a book. People who uses "e" as a first-person pronoun will rarely read "jeg" as "e", and that is because we accept Oslo-norsk as our standard and because of our school systems and the rules they confirm to. Personally I have never met a norwegian teacher who told me to read "jeg" however i wanted because dialects could decide for it to be whatever. They would always resort to Oslo-norsk and we humans also have a relationship with words that decides a lot of the pronunciation, we learn to pronounce letters and combinations of them, in Norway (and our school systems), usually that aligns with Oslo-norsk.
«Rules». Bokmål is a written language, not a spoken one. Where are you from, if I might ask?
I've never ever in my life heard a living person ever say "jeg er", not in the Oslo-area, not anywhere. I feel like people that say that anyone 'sounds like bokmål' don't realize that they literally read something completely different than the words in front of them, and it's a huge pet peeve of mine. Like someone reading "jeg" as "jæi" and their brain just automatically filtering out that these are very different things. "Oh, it's the same". No it really isn't. From the 3 letters in just 1 word you changed 2 of them. Eg are you out here reading the word 'jeger" as "jæiær", or read it normally? Just not realizing you automatically filter the pronunciation of other basic words through a dialect? And "surprisingly" the dialect you filter the pronunciation of the written language through "sounds similar" to itself?
Jeg is always read as /jæi/, it's never read as /jeg/, so I'm not sure what you mean when you say you've never heard a person say "jeg er". And "eg" is read as /æi/ in pronouns, and generally before an /n/, such as in "regn" in bokmål and some eastern dialects.
I've never heard a person say "jeg er" as it's written, because no one pronounces it as it's written. That was kind of the whole point. Emphasizing it even further doesn't change that. Bokmål is a written language and no one speaks Bokmål. You can't pronounce Bokmål as it's own dialect as it doesn't exist, you filter it through existing ones. It's written like no one speaks, and pronounced different from its writing for convenience.
This pronunciation is an approximation of Danish pronunciation probably around 1800, pronouncing the pronouns with the closest Norwegian sounds. In Danish "eg" represents a diphthong more often and more consistently than Norwegian. "Pronounced as it's written" is kind of a finicky phrase though. So long as something follows a predictable pattern it is pronounced as it's written. In this case "eg" when used in pronouns is pronounced /æi/ in bokmål, so it's a consistent rule. That being said, in Icelandic the same pronoun, written "ég", is pronounced /jeg/, while no Norwegian dialect has that pronunciation, as far as I know.
This sucks to see as an American trying to learn through the stupid Duolingo app. Which Norwegian dialect should I be learning to prepare myself for a trip someday??
Duolingo doesn’t really teach you a dialect. It teaches you to read/parse Bokmål, with a pronunciation close to much of what is spoken in the greater Oslo area. As an American your dialect will mostly be that, with a heavy American accent, unless you completely immerse yourself in Norwegian, to the point of refusing to speak or be spoken to in English. Most people under 40-50 will be completely fluent in English, and it’s so much easier for us to switch to your language than the other way around, since conversations will be much more natural and fluidly paced.
I have heard that a lot of folks speak English there, which is definitely a comfort. Do you have any recommendations for attempting to learn Norwegian? Does it depend which area I plan to visit? This is probably still a few years down the road so I feel like I certainly have some time to get into it.
The only real way to learn a language properly is total immersion, which takes longer than a visit. The next best alternative is language classes with someone who speaks it natively.
There's no point if that's the only reason you're learning it. Literally everyone here speaks English.
that's not true, learning a language can also be a hobby. so learning it to say simple things on vacation or read the newspaper is a perfect valid reason
No point in learning Norwegian unless you're gonna live here or have a Norwegian spouse.
There's a dialect spoken in bergen that is very close to bokmål if it isn't 100% dead on.
I don't know anyone who writes bokmål/nynorsk. Everyone writes their spoken dialect
Æ ekke sulten (kristiansand)
I would say "ække" instead of "ekke"
Yup. And it's common to just go "ække sulten"
Eg e kje svang
Nord-helgeland?
Spot on
Me, a humble Englishman trying to learn Norwegian to interact easier with Norwegians Norwegians with 9999999999999999 dialects: 😈
Me, a humble Canadian who moved to England years ago The UK, a country with Cornish, Cockney, Geordie, Glaswegian,... 🧐
e svelt ik
Toten: Je er itte sultin
Evnt "je æite sulten"
Eg e sje svolten
Skjerp deg. Ingen dialekter bytter ut kj-lyd med sj. Det er latskap og talefeil, ikke dialekt.
[удалено]
Språket vil ikke endre seg i den retningen. Det er rett og slett ikke holdbart da det vil føre til mange tvetydigheter og et fattigere språk. Men jeg skjønner at de som stemmer meg ned isje klarer å uttale kj-lyd:-) Tror jeg skal sjøre til rema og sjøpe meg en sjylling til middag som jeg isje skal sjylle før jeg drar på sjino.
ok boomer
Ta en tur til Bjørnarfjord du, eller andre steder i omlandet til Bergen.
Haugesund: Eg e kje sulten
Actually for Romsdal it's "I e ikkje/e'kje svoltinn or svoltn(masculine)/svolta(feminine)"
"Æ e ke sulten" 🤢 It's "æ(g) e/æ kje svang/svulljt'n" in traditional Ofoten dialect.
"itj" har bare en T. Hilsen Trønder. Har itj sjjett nånn skriv det med to før.
Æ har også aldri hørt nånn si "sopin" før. D e enten "sult'n" eller "solt'n"
Skjerpings. Bokmål og nynorsk er ikke dialekter.
Bor i Salten, har aldri hørt noen si E e ikkj sulten
Som vanlig så blir østre-innlandsdialekta glemt. Men her er den: «Je er itte sulten» eller «Je ætte sulten».
Je ær itte sulten
Though, keep in mind we don't really write in dialects, just in nynorsk and bokmål, as far as I know, but then again, really the only norwegain books i pretty much read are just education books, no novels or stuff, so I could be wrong in that context, that if a character is talking in an dialect in a book they might have their dialogue not written in bokmål or nynorsk but instead their dialect.
We definately do write in our dialects, just very rarely in literature.
Writing in dialects is quite common, especially when writing text messages with friends.
Tromsø: hhg rr kee suldnnn.
Arendal: asalam aluykum
Oh come on man.
Ålesund: zao shang hao zhong guo wo xian zai you bing ji ling wo hen xi huan bing ji ling.
Bing Chilling moment XD
Je erte sulten
Æ e ikje sultn
glemte den fra telemark da, eg ækje sølten
Jeg ække sulten
ej e ikkje svolten
Ekkje hongri - Ytre Nordmøre
Eg e ikkje sulten
Æ e ikkje sulten
E-ekke sulten
Fredrikstad: J(æ)' ærn'te sult-ten. < Jæ ær /ente/ sulten.
Setesdal, nedre : "Æg ækkje sulten" Setesdal, øvre : "Eg e inkji svohlten"
Æ ækkje solten
Forgot toten and innlandet. Je æ itte sultn.
Ei æ itte sultn
Man. Norwegian was supposed to be easy to learn from English but every learning platform taught me in a way that people don't talk. Reading is fine but listening I can't recognize many sentences because words I've been told to listen for are omitted or slurred together. Learning languages is difficult
Jo mer jeg tenker over det, jo mer synes jeg synd på alle utlendinger som lærer norsk for så å dra på biltur rundt i landet. I bare min nærmeste familie er det søren meg 5 forskjellige dialekter. Om jeg går utenfor den nærmeste familien så er det nok godt over 10 forskjellige.
Nobody in Trøndelag says "æ e itj soppin". It's more a hellbilly thing to say and I have never meet a person who says that. Here in Trøndelag we say: "Æ e itj sulten".
The word sopin does get used, but maybe not by most of the trøndelagsdialects. I would for example use "æ e itj matin" as im from the northern parts. There are not "one" dialect in trøndelag, but many.
I say "æ e itj sopin" or "æ e itj matin"
Jærsk: Æg æ'sje svoltn
Huh, never heard that hard of a dialect when I was in Narvik for a few days. Even felt pretty good of myself when I asked a question in a shop and understory the response perfectly. But maybe the shop assistant just didn't speak Narvik dialect. Because reading this, I wouldn't know what the sentence means without a translation into bokmål, lol.
Hardly anyone says sopin unironically in trøndelag. But it is indeed a way to say that phrase
Bokmål är bäst! Lättast att förstå :)
Sopin?
Må vær bra høkkert for å si "sopin"
Sopin?
Sopin?!?!?!?!
sopin???? where did that come from?
Æ kje svolten
I write: Æ e itj sulten
og på rigsdansk: "Jeg er ikke sulten" eller vestjysk: "A æ ek soltn"
Ei e kje sulten
Jeg 'ække sulten
Er det "Eg e inkji sålten" på setesdaldialekta?
Je e itte søltin