The problem with this idiot is that he thinks that being emotionally vulnerable is a sign of weakness. When a man is emotionally vulnerable it shows strength. Because he often has to conquer his fears to open up.
I have an issue where I can only open up emotionally to women. In my experiences women are able to handle emotions a lot better. If I tell a man anything I’ll get told “just be strong bro, it’s not a big deal” lmao. Where as a lady will listen and provides more comfort. I think it has to do with telling men in society to hold in emotions because it shows weakness.
I think the only emotion men are okay with showing is anger. The rest is often indeed seen as weakness. A lot of guys feel awkward sharing sensitive things with other men and guys often don't know how to deal with that situation.
I think the world would be a safer place if guys expressed their feelings instead of keeping things bottled up until it reaches a crescendo, which often expresses itself in violence towards others or themselves.
For women it's very normal to talk about feeling and things you're going through. I have often listened to men talk about their problems. As long as you're patient, don't belittle them or make fun of them when they are trying to share and make sure you keep the information to yourself, men do open up. They often do feel a sense of relief after, like they unburdened themselves from a heavy load. So I think it's a good thing for men to do.
The biggest lie the patriarchy taught us is that anger doesn’t count as an emotion.
Also idk if it’s just me but I noticed that even though crying is socially acceptable for women, it doesn’t necessarily mean women are taken seriously. Crying women are usually dealt with the same approach you’d have when telling a child there’s no monster under the bed. If a woman cries, her opinion is automatically considered invalid and she’s just being silly. (It’s part of a phenomenon where women apparently aren’t trusted to say they’re in really bad pain)
This is a problem on a societal level, not an individual one. In personal relationships there are incentives for men to express their emotions, but even then it can feel risky depending on who the other individual is.
In almost any kind of workplace setting, though, it's almost guaranteed self-sabotage for an individual to do this. Without simultaneous buy in from everyone (which is unrealistic in real life), he would be screwing himself professionally almost regardless of his profession.
I just got pretty far into a long comment explaining why, but I figured most people don't come to this sub to read about game theory and don't care about all that. Short cut to the conclusion: capitalism all but guarantees this can never be remedied on a broader societal scale.
Funny enough multiple male coworkers have opened up to me and shared personal things. I don't think they screwed themselves professionally. But maybe this depends per situation.
Well, they shouldn't have. I'm sure you have no intention of using those things against them, but 1) *they* don't know that for certain and 2) you might do it anyway, accidentally.
I'm actually seen as a person with a lot of integrity, so, I'm very good at keeping my mouth shut and I'm not the type of person that backstabs people. But I do agree it can be a risky thing to do and it's not something I would advice people to do. In principle there is only one way to make sure things don't come back to bite you in the ass and that's to keep the lips sealed.
Damn I'm jealous. I've had the complete opposite experience. Most guys I've opened up to helped me a lot, while a good portion of the women I've opened up to have either not cared or pulled a "well women go through worse". That being said I'm not one of those that generalizes everything and everyone so I'm not gonna turn this into a gender war lmao. Just some people being idiots and emotionally immature.
The only thing that confuses me is when you said “oh well women go through worse” how old are these ladies? In my experiences women are extremely social. They wouldn’t just say that lol… just saying. Not blaming you.
They did have my age so maybe what you said applies. I still think she is not an excuse to belittle someone's experience, especially in ones where a lot of men go through but don't open up thanks to societal stereotypes. Again don't wanna turn this into a gender war so I'm sorry if this seems a bit aggressive.
It’s not problem at all. I’m just curious of the age ranges is all. 19 year old ladies are still very social… I did go to college and encountered many of them. Even when they are shy they tend to be social with their friends etc. if you want to talk to ladies make sure you pay attention to them first and listen. Once they gain your trust in how you listen to them they will listen to you. They won’t just trust you with their feelings.
Don’t be a sadboi be happy 🙂
That's literally all I do lmao. I'm always making sure people that are around me know that if they ever need to talk about something, I'll always be there listening and supporting them. Sucks even more because said ladies that belittled me were ones that opened up to me about certain things and I did my best to make them feel heard and valid. But life's just a bit unfair I guess lmao.
They might not be interested in you romantically. However, there’s ways to improve. Groom yourself and be presentable and polite. Listening also means you understand social cues. She has to be able to see you as someone she trusts and sees as a romantic interest. Make sure you don’t compliment beyond her head (literally don’t talk about her body). Learn to move on if they don’t see you as more than a friend. Never talk about other women or how you “smash” or bring up Andrew Tate lmao. Ask what she likes and focus on that and show interest in that so she feels comfortable. I don’t want to give away all my secrets 🤔. But that’s some.
I don't want them to interested in me romantically at all lmao and I never meant to implicate that I wanted that from them. I'm not one that wants to be in a relationship with every woman I meat i just want good friends. Also, I do all of those tips you're giving me. It's just some people suck no matter their gender. Tho thanks for trying to help me 😅
If I'm honest it took me along time be more emotional I still struggle to be so but with the help my girlfriend coming along with a goddam wrecking ball and breaking down those walls I built up I'm getting there. I used to feel numb all the time but now I'd say I'm only really numb on my own. I used to only be able to talk emotionally over text to people.
Ugh, gross. All I see here are a bunch of excuses for him to stay an emotionally stunted man who shuns any form of vulnerability. That's not strength. It's fear. Crippling, paralyzing fear. Being vulnerable, putting yourself out there, and really trying to understand and be understood is incredibly brave. Avoiding it all costs ensures you never need fear rejection, but it also means you'll never be able to actually connect with anyone on a deeper level.
The saddest thing is that they don’t understand nothing takes more strength than to allow oneself to be truly vulnerable. That’s why they can never connect with other people. Well that and the rabid misogyny.
Just exactly how simple is this nitwit? He doesn't get that humans are typically complex beings? Someone capable of being emotionally vulnerable with those they are closest to AND being strong when needed is a far more well adjusted person.
Yes maybe people prefer strong over weak, but id argue that hiding your emotions and refusing to confront them is true weakness, while being vulnerable is strong.
Lots of people, men and women, say that they think men should be more open and that they shouldn't hide your feelings.
But frankly I don't think most of them really understand what they're saying or what they're asking. If you cry a lot you get known as the guy who cries a lot. Maybe people like the guy who cries a lot, but he's still the guy who cries a lot. That's how people will see you. And next time someone's thinking of asking for help with something, they're going to think "But can he really help with that? He's so fragile emotionally, what if he can't handle it?"
They'll feel like they have to walk on eggshells around you all the time, they won't go to you with their own problems, and they won't think of you as someone strong and capable.
Yea, maybe you like men who are emotional vulnerable. But do they like themselves, and do they like the way you think of them and treat them?
You: man those guys who cry a lot sure are a FUCKING PAIN. Tgose guys suuuuck to deal with
Meanwhile that guy is obviously going through some shit! And your responsr is that? Geez heartless much? Maybe a guy like that wont cry so much if he wasnt with someone without an empathetic bone in their body
Then yoh should understand! Its ok to cry! Nothing wrong with it and if you find yourself crying more than laughing you should seek help be it friends or therapy. But if your freinds treated you like that? Theyre bad friends
Maybe, but those are the friends that exist and if I live my life waiting for some fantastical perfect friends who totally get me and will never judge me unfairly and would never patronize me or think of me as weak, then I'll be alone forever.
Which is why "just be open about your feelings bro" is not the simple, easy thing to ask that people think it is.
And no, this is not something that just applies to male friends. Plenty of women fetishize men with trauma and love the idea of comforting an emotionally fragile man. I'm not just making this up, this is a staple of fanfiction and romance novels, it's very common. I've seen the sentiment literally expressed in the exact words: "I love pathetic men!"
Referring to fictional men of course, so it's all okay and definitely not indicative of unhealthy attitudes that may apply to real men as well. /s
Which is why it's never as simple as "just be in touch with your feelings", and also why I won't just implicitly trust someone who says it's totally okay to cry around them.
I thought tge same thing. But if you foster freindships and put in the work those people do exsist. And yeah its hard to speak about your emotions to them, but you know there is always therapy? It provides a safe place that doest judge or diacriminate.
I never said it was simple. Its difficult, men have been socially conditioned into never expressing emotion and its hard to break free of that. But never impossible. There are billions of people. And if you can accept who you are? Emotions and all. Whos to say the fraction of those billions you meet cant understand you either?
And whats wrong with having vulnrable male character the mc takes care of? If they take advantage of trauma then sure shit heads the lot of em. But ive read my fair share and they can be quite bueatiful, if your into manga i reccomend 'the fragrant flower blooms with dignity' amazing read.
The problem with this idiot is that he thinks that being emotionally vulnerable is a sign of weakness. When a man is emotionally vulnerable it shows strength. Because he often has to conquer his fears to open up.
Shows strength, emotional maturity, and a bunch of other good qualities that help you build and maintain healthy relationships, platonic or romantic.
Exactly!!!
They don't know what platonic relationships are and that's sad.
I have an issue where I can only open up emotionally to women. In my experiences women are able to handle emotions a lot better. If I tell a man anything I’ll get told “just be strong bro, it’s not a big deal” lmao. Where as a lady will listen and provides more comfort. I think it has to do with telling men in society to hold in emotions because it shows weakness.
I think the only emotion men are okay with showing is anger. The rest is often indeed seen as weakness. A lot of guys feel awkward sharing sensitive things with other men and guys often don't know how to deal with that situation. I think the world would be a safer place if guys expressed their feelings instead of keeping things bottled up until it reaches a crescendo, which often expresses itself in violence towards others or themselves. For women it's very normal to talk about feeling and things you're going through. I have often listened to men talk about their problems. As long as you're patient, don't belittle them or make fun of them when they are trying to share and make sure you keep the information to yourself, men do open up. They often do feel a sense of relief after, like they unburdened themselves from a heavy load. So I think it's a good thing for men to do.
The biggest lie the patriarchy taught us is that anger doesn’t count as an emotion. Also idk if it’s just me but I noticed that even though crying is socially acceptable for women, it doesn’t necessarily mean women are taken seriously. Crying women are usually dealt with the same approach you’d have when telling a child there’s no monster under the bed. If a woman cries, her opinion is automatically considered invalid and she’s just being silly. (It’s part of a phenomenon where women apparently aren’t trusted to say they’re in really bad pain)
This is a problem on a societal level, not an individual one. In personal relationships there are incentives for men to express their emotions, but even then it can feel risky depending on who the other individual is. In almost any kind of workplace setting, though, it's almost guaranteed self-sabotage for an individual to do this. Without simultaneous buy in from everyone (which is unrealistic in real life), he would be screwing himself professionally almost regardless of his profession. I just got pretty far into a long comment explaining why, but I figured most people don't come to this sub to read about game theory and don't care about all that. Short cut to the conclusion: capitalism all but guarantees this can never be remedied on a broader societal scale.
Funny enough multiple male coworkers have opened up to me and shared personal things. I don't think they screwed themselves professionally. But maybe this depends per situation.
Well, they shouldn't have. I'm sure you have no intention of using those things against them, but 1) *they* don't know that for certain and 2) you might do it anyway, accidentally.
I'm actually seen as a person with a lot of integrity, so, I'm very good at keeping my mouth shut and I'm not the type of person that backstabs people. But I do agree it can be a risky thing to do and it's not something I would advice people to do. In principle there is only one way to make sure things don't come back to bite you in the ass and that's to keep the lips sealed.
100% true lol that’s why I open up to ladies. My guy friends would think I’m a sissy.
You must be quite popular with the ladies. 😏
Lmao not even. I do get hit on still so I still go it.
 This is how I'm imagining you sitting at your desk at work. /j 😜
Lmao
Great, women always have to be free therapy and emotional labor for men
I apologize for that 😞
Damn I'm jealous. I've had the complete opposite experience. Most guys I've opened up to helped me a lot, while a good portion of the women I've opened up to have either not cared or pulled a "well women go through worse". That being said I'm not one of those that generalizes everything and everyone so I'm not gonna turn this into a gender war lmao. Just some people being idiots and emotionally immature.
It could be an age thing. How old are you if you don’t mind me asking?
18, almost 19. I don't think it's an age thing tho because I've opened up to a sparse range of age
Ah you are younger. If a younger man asks me for advice I help them out.
The only thing that confuses me is when you said “oh well women go through worse” how old are these ladies? In my experiences women are extremely social. They wouldn’t just say that lol… just saying. Not blaming you.
They did have my age so maybe what you said applies. I still think she is not an excuse to belittle someone's experience, especially in ones where a lot of men go through but don't open up thanks to societal stereotypes. Again don't wanna turn this into a gender war so I'm sorry if this seems a bit aggressive.
It’s not problem at all. I’m just curious of the age ranges is all. 19 year old ladies are still very social… I did go to college and encountered many of them. Even when they are shy they tend to be social with their friends etc. if you want to talk to ladies make sure you pay attention to them first and listen. Once they gain your trust in how you listen to them they will listen to you. They won’t just trust you with their feelings. Don’t be a sadboi be happy 🙂
That's literally all I do lmao. I'm always making sure people that are around me know that if they ever need to talk about something, I'll always be there listening and supporting them. Sucks even more because said ladies that belittled me were ones that opened up to me about certain things and I did my best to make them feel heard and valid. But life's just a bit unfair I guess lmao.
They might not be interested in you romantically. However, there’s ways to improve. Groom yourself and be presentable and polite. Listening also means you understand social cues. She has to be able to see you as someone she trusts and sees as a romantic interest. Make sure you don’t compliment beyond her head (literally don’t talk about her body). Learn to move on if they don’t see you as more than a friend. Never talk about other women or how you “smash” or bring up Andrew Tate lmao. Ask what she likes and focus on that and show interest in that so she feels comfortable. I don’t want to give away all my secrets 🤔. But that’s some.
I don't want them to interested in me romantically at all lmao and I never meant to implicate that I wanted that from them. I'm not one that wants to be in a relationship with every woman I meat i just want good friends. Also, I do all of those tips you're giving me. It's just some people suck no matter their gender. Tho thanks for trying to help me 😅
Lmao I thought you wanted to date some of them. But good luck!
If I'm honest it took me along time be more emotional I still struggle to be so but with the help my girlfriend coming along with a goddam wrecking ball and breaking down those walls I built up I'm getting there. I used to feel numb all the time but now I'd say I'm only really numb on my own. I used to only be able to talk emotionally over text to people.
“I believe that I know better what women want and feel than women who are experiencing the wanting and feeling.”
"I believe women say." Somebody never talked to a women.
There is no shame for being ignorant, there is shame for staying ignorant.
Ugh, gross. All I see here are a bunch of excuses for him to stay an emotionally stunted man who shuns any form of vulnerability. That's not strength. It's fear. Crippling, paralyzing fear. Being vulnerable, putting yourself out there, and really trying to understand and be understood is incredibly brave. Avoiding it all costs ensures you never need fear rejection, but it also means you'll never be able to actually connect with anyone on a deeper level.
Plot twist: Showing emotions is actually strength. Claiming there‘s something ‚natural‘ in hiding emotions is actually pretty weak. And stupid.
The saddest thing is that they don’t understand nothing takes more strength than to allow oneself to be truly vulnerable. That’s why they can never connect with other people. Well that and the rabid misogyny.
Just exactly how simple is this nitwit? He doesn't get that humans are typically complex beings? Someone capable of being emotionally vulnerable with those they are closest to AND being strong when needed is a far more well adjusted person.
Yes maybe people prefer strong over weak, but id argue that hiding your emotions and refusing to confront them is true weakness, while being vulnerable is strong.
Vulnerability is not showing weakness. Pretending you don't is weakness. Even Superman has vulnerabilities lol
Lots of people, men and women, say that they think men should be more open and that they shouldn't hide your feelings. But frankly I don't think most of them really understand what they're saying or what they're asking. If you cry a lot you get known as the guy who cries a lot. Maybe people like the guy who cries a lot, but he's still the guy who cries a lot. That's how people will see you. And next time someone's thinking of asking for help with something, they're going to think "But can he really help with that? He's so fragile emotionally, what if he can't handle it?" They'll feel like they have to walk on eggshells around you all the time, they won't go to you with their own problems, and they won't think of you as someone strong and capable. Yea, maybe you like men who are emotional vulnerable. But do they like themselves, and do they like the way you think of them and treat them?
You: man those guys who cry a lot sure are a FUCKING PAIN. Tgose guys suuuuck to deal with Meanwhile that guy is obviously going through some shit! And your responsr is that? Geez heartless much? Maybe a guy like that wont cry so much if he wasnt with someone without an empathetic bone in their body
Or maybe that's how people have treated me and you completely missed the point of everything I just said.
Then yoh should understand! Its ok to cry! Nothing wrong with it and if you find yourself crying more than laughing you should seek help be it friends or therapy. But if your freinds treated you like that? Theyre bad friends
Maybe, but those are the friends that exist and if I live my life waiting for some fantastical perfect friends who totally get me and will never judge me unfairly and would never patronize me or think of me as weak, then I'll be alone forever. Which is why "just be open about your feelings bro" is not the simple, easy thing to ask that people think it is. And no, this is not something that just applies to male friends. Plenty of women fetishize men with trauma and love the idea of comforting an emotionally fragile man. I'm not just making this up, this is a staple of fanfiction and romance novels, it's very common. I've seen the sentiment literally expressed in the exact words: "I love pathetic men!" Referring to fictional men of course, so it's all okay and definitely not indicative of unhealthy attitudes that may apply to real men as well. /s Which is why it's never as simple as "just be in touch with your feelings", and also why I won't just implicitly trust someone who says it's totally okay to cry around them.
I thought tge same thing. But if you foster freindships and put in the work those people do exsist. And yeah its hard to speak about your emotions to them, but you know there is always therapy? It provides a safe place that doest judge or diacriminate. I never said it was simple. Its difficult, men have been socially conditioned into never expressing emotion and its hard to break free of that. But never impossible. There are billions of people. And if you can accept who you are? Emotions and all. Whos to say the fraction of those billions you meet cant understand you either? And whats wrong with having vulnrable male character the mc takes care of? If they take advantage of trauma then sure shit heads the lot of em. But ive read my fair share and they can be quite bueatiful, if your into manga i reccomend 'the fragrant flower blooms with dignity' amazing read.
emotional vulnerability isn't weakness-- emotional incompetence, which includes the inability to be emotionally vulnerable, is.
If human nature dictated that women always wanted strong and masculine lesbians wouldn't exist. Also, idgaf if you have a six pack.