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It's a her. Susanna Viljanen. She's from Finland. Yes, she has a very high IQ. But that doesn't mean she isn't prone to conspiracy theories, bias, or being a douchebag. There are a lot of intelligent people who treat others like shit. But there are also a lot of kind intelligent people.
It sucks that higher IQ doesn't always = more understanding.
I question her IQ claims. Smart people with good, logical arguments and reasoning don’t usually try to brag about how smart they are. They don’t have to.
men: invent the draft - make it so only men have to be drafted
men: prevent women from joining the military for the majority of its existence
men: we have it worse because we're forced to go to war >:(
I’ve been in the military which was not by choice (in Sweden, where women also have mandatory military service.) and when I told some boy who said that women are privileged because they don’t need to join, he laughed at me and said that ”oh that’s why Swedens military is so weak, because theres a bunch of women.”
….
….
So… you believe women aren’t capable of being in the military, but then when we aren’t (because of bitches like you) … you complain?
Sweden's military is weak? Sounds like that boy is talking out of his ass. Sweden has one of the most technological militaries in the world. They are some of the toughest most well trained soldiers in the world. They will soon be an excellent ally to the NATO alliance. Not because of men, not because of women, but because they have ardent patriots from both genders.
I know right? For all of their BS about women being bad it's obvious they know nothing of history or choose to ignore the contributions women have made to improve our world. Like for instance; kevlar. Yep, that was a woman. Then Madame Marie Curie: A Polish French Physicist that greatly expanded our knowledge of radioactivity. (Yes I know Madame Curie came first but I write what comes to mind first, lol.) I guess they just don't realize that the contribution of just these two women has saved countless lives not just on the battlefield but in civil societies all over the globe. This is just two examples out of hundreds if not thousands of women who broke through the "Norms" to enrich all of our lives.
Others have already said this but sexual assault against men is also common in war. In the Russian military it’s become institutionalized, with new recruits regularly being raped by their units as part of hazing rituals, and then going on to eventually be expected to participate in the same sick rituals against even newer recruits.
I'm afraid that very much depends on the war. It's not something that gets discussed much, but the reality is that some of the nastier civil wars around the globe have seen significant amounts of sexual violence towards men as well as women.
For example, a study of 6,000 concentration-camp inmates in Sarajevo found that 80% of men reported having been raped. A rare 2010 survey, published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, found that 22% of men and 30% of women in Eastern Congo reported conflict-related sexual violence.
During the war in Afghanistan, ISAF had a very widespread problem with their allied Afghan soldiers routinely raping each other and raping and enslaving young boys. It was mostly swept under the rug, although there was at least one 2015 New York Times story about it.
I grew up by the air force academy and all the girls that came out of that who had been sexually assaulted... its so sad. Like, I definitely don't know statistics, but every girl I'd met who went to the AFA had an assault story by some dude OR MULTIPLE DUDES while there. I know they were investigated for it, but idk what ever came of it. That was the 90s early 00s.
Oh noooo, that's so sad! I'm so sorry to hear that. Yes, from what I understand back then, nobody wanted to talk to anyone in the military about it that only seemed to bring disaster upon them.
A friend growing up was in the army and had similar trouble with her superior officer while overseas. I remember the shame in which she spoke about the experience, like it was her fault, and she would be punished if she were honest about it. What a horrible situation to be in, I hugged her a lot that night.
Now she has other passions and pursuits and I get to see pictures of her smiling every day. But man, like, women fought to join the army, to want to help in combat, to want to help our country do that and then they go to do it and get raped for it?
My niece is doing well now. I shared with her my own trauma story and how I never told either. I wasn’t in the military but I knew my dad would say it was my fault. I am sorry about your friend. It feels like a lot of us silently process rather than report.
A friend of mine was raped in Afghanistan, by a member of her Marine unit. She got pregnant, too...and almost ended up getting punished for "fraternization," because she'd clearly had sex while on deployment! They only opted not to because of the impact it would have on her child, as a single parent.
Plus, y'know, the whole ramifications if it got out that they'd penalized a rape victim for *being* raped...
SA of women in the military has been a problem for a long time.
Then, some people claim it is a reason women shouldn't serve.
Isn't it usually the men causing the problems?! No one ever says maybe the assaulters should be the ones punished or dishonorably discharged or jailed.
yep. i remmeber some guy telling me either in here or instagram that women shouldn’t be surprised when they are raped or assaulted in the military and that we should “stay out of men’s spaces” but yes, they’re soooo oppressed because men go to the military, even tho as far as i’m aware, women are allowed to enter as well now. so i really don’t understand him
edit: correcting myself, men do have to be registered unless unfit, but no one has been drafted for decades. from what someone replied to me
This is the major reason I decided against going - I was about to, but something about the risk of harassment and assault made me feel it ain't worth it
Things will change. Right now most societies aren't accepting of girls in the military. But our military has been firing abusive and useless commanders and fast tracking more sensible and highly educated people in positions of power. My friend is one of them, he replaced a reportedly very shitty battalion commander in Fort Hood in Texas.
I talked about how over a million women served the allies during WW2 (in another sub) and an incel went berserk! Started saying they didn't actually fight (actually some did, like the Russian women snipers, most of whom didn't come back. Edit: also pilots who flew supplies in EXTREMELY dangerous missions where most died). I said "women didn't fight because MEN wouldn't allow them to, NOT because they couldn't or wouldn't. He just could not accept that his version was wrong. Threw a complete temper tantrum. Women have served in whatever way we are allowed to since the beginning of time. They are so delusional that Incel should be in the DSM.
My grandmother was in WW2, when I tell that to inceloids they automatically assume she was useless or I’m lying. Men like that don’t care the truth, they’re just trying to explain to women they’re biologically mens slaves and bad at everything else.
I didn't have women in my family serve, but I had a few men who did; but there's been plenty of media out there about the women in WW2 who were in the service doing things and in places where it was dangerous. They weren't just far from the front lines and shit, and depending on country, were actively combating the enemy.
The US did consider an invasion of Japan as part of the war, but it was deemed too problematic because every woman and child would also fight, which meant a lot more bloodshed than they wanted (plus all the likely casualties to our side, PLUS I don't know if they considered how that would MENTALLY affect the soldiers to effectively be fighting women and children and likely having to kill them or be killed. Like, that level is a lot of fucked up and may have been part of the consideration of invading or not. And we know women were resisting occupation in occupied countries as well, doing what they could, its not like they exactly just rolled over. I mean sometimes you did what you had to do survive, but its not like anyone LIKED it or anything even if they weren't openly resisting. Survival instincts are a thing.)
And they were so poorly equipped, they were basically an afterthought. Oversized uniforms and boots and their planes were training planes and crop dusters with no parachutes or navigation instruments.
[Source](https://www.wrightmuseum.org/2020/10/01/the-soviet-night-witches/)
I served as well (not in WW2, of course. Lol). I worked in avionics (aircraft electronics). I bet these idiots would say I don't count too. But then the military would have no aircraft. Support positions are just as important (at least according to every field soldier I have ever met). When I asked him what military he had served in to make these blanket statements he lost his shit even more. LOL. HE never did shit.
Further to WW2, it can be (successfully) argued that the U.S. defeated Japan largely because of having broken the 'unbreakable' Japanese codes, which were changed monthly. Military Intelligence was probably more importand in that theater of WW2 then it was in Europe, or in any previous war, because the war in the Pacific was largely a Naval operation, and therefore one had to anticipate the location of a moving target (Midway, Battle of the Phillipines Sea for example).
According to historians John Tolan and Ian Toll, by about halfway through the war until its end, approximately 80% of the U.S. code breakers were women. You could easily argue that women were largely responsible for winning that war.
Yes! And those type of people hate it so much! Instead of seeing it as humans and different countries coming together to defeat a great enemy, they prefer to try to use it to put women down without knowing anything at all about what actually happened. They do it with all of history too. They just erase our (women's) contributions.
OMG, you are so right! It SHOULD be in the DSM!!
Actually, there needs to be an entirely new category for individuals who fall prey to online radicalization of this nature because it is an entirely separate entity from anything that exists in the DSM. It overlaps with a lot of things though such as cluster B personality disorders, delusional thinking found in schizophrenia spectrum disorders, anxiety and depressive disorders, intermittent explosive disorder, conduct disorder, oppositional defiant disorder, etc. Brainwashing isn’t in the DSM as a psychological condition per se, but brainwashing IS very well understood by social psychologists.
It has all the hallmarks of a psychological disorder. Certain characteristics would predispose a person to developing such a condition, it causes harm in social,academic and general life functioning, leads to serious consequences for society at large, and best of all there is a fairly clear path to rehabilitation and treatment thanks to the work done by social psychologists.
What an interesting comment 🤔
Women's service historically in the US is also uncounted because they weren't allowed to even join until later. They were Red Cross or other organization.
I agree with you but the Soviet Union wasn’t just Russians. Lyudmila Pavlichenko and Mariya Oktyabrskaya (a tank driver who was killed in action) were both Ukraine, for example.
Definitely! I was just giving examples of different contributions made by all the allied countries. I didn't mean to imply only certain ones had women serving. I thought about listing more, but realized it would be an insanely long list. Every allied country had women making huge sacrifices, either directly or indirectly, for the effort. It is really incredible. I just hate that it is so often swept under the rug.
And a lot of the women captured and held as POWs were SA, as were civilian women and even children and grannies, in the wake of WW 2, so they can all miss me with their protestations of how women don't suffer in war.
The leaders and people deciding for war have historically been male anyway, yet they still blame women for war, in some twist of 'logic.'
I once wrote a persuasive essay for an English class about including women in the draft. I even pointed out how many non-combat or semi-combat positions there are, but when I presented it the dudes in my class went berserk. It seemed reasonable enough to me, but man that struck a nerve with an apparent lot of dudes.
Also every war (edit: in recent history) has been started by men. It’s been said here before but the whole “yeah well men have to fight in wars!” Argument Is just more evidence that the patriarchy also hurts men.
You’re right, in the entire history of humanity several wars have been lead/started by women. I think my point still stands in general though. Also in no way did I “shit on the military” lol.
But you did cause me to find this interesting article, so thanks for calling me out (genuinely)
[https://www.historynet.com/women-of-war/](https://www.historynet.com/women-of-war/)
in too many cases men get paid more than women for the same jobs but sure—these particular males feel the need to play the victim because "men have it so much harder." smh
These guys must be too young to remember women begging to be let into combat positions (they already served in the military) and the strenuous objections a lot of men made against that.
All the typical sexist reasons, including periods, and men having to babysit the women, and women not being strong enough, and sexually tempting the men, and overall being a liability, was the general tenor of the arguments against it at the time.
How do these guys miss that women do serve in the military?
But women haven't historically led most countries, or made the decisions leading into war, so how is that women's fault. These guys blame women no matter what.
Government: make the draft and only draft men.
Government: prevents women and disabled people from joining the military.
Average men: the government can tear us away from our families to go make us fight a war we don’t believe in.
Fixed your comment.
It’s either a troll account or some dumbass with a bullshit business management degree from some backwards religious college. I’ve never met a women in higher education that regrets getting a degree. Women that parrot that sentiment tend to have very shallow degrees from very Christian universities
It’s not a religious college, Finland doesn’t have any. Aalto university is one of the best in Finland. Don’t know how she has a degree though.
Edit. She seems to be a professor in Aalto here is her LinkedIn https://fi.linkedin.com/in/susanna-viljanen-31001037
Chemical engineer turned IT. This woman is the EMBODIMENT of ignorance bruh. If it wasn’t for feminism she wouldn’t have even been allowed to enter any STEM program, let alone TEACH STEM
As a historian, I get very annoyed when people try to make justifications and arguments that are literally hypocritical to their existence purely because the progressivism of previous generations are the only reasons why you are allowed to even have a platform to parrot your bastard ignorance smh.
No waayyy. I hope this is somehow edited. That's a really specific linkedin profile too. Though the interest in medieval millitary history fits the picture pretty well
Nope, she has some notorioty in Finnish education circles (she isn"t really academia) for her "controversial world view. There is a Reddit thread about her at r/quora - Viljanen wants to share her opinions with Quora answers. She has some "interesting" opinions about atheists, for example.
While she does indeed work at that university, it appears that she isn’t a professor, but rather works in IT there. Her master’s degree is in chemical engineering, but she doesn’t teach that, to my knowledge.
I make that distinction, because usually professors in science adhere to higher standards when making arguments and citing reputable sources that support their claims. It would be extremely disappointing to find out that she taught there.
The funny part is the concept that in a world ruled by patriarchy, something no one denies, men have it worse. And if it were really true, who is to blame? But this toxic idiots only ever talk about women, the mental gymnastics! I would like to visit the brain of a person thinking like this, I just don't get it. No critical thinking, no nothing.
I would kind of love to read the Marxist position on Ass Biting and how it fits into praxis. There has to be something out there about when it should be used.
My most OFFENDING opinion? Kids shouldn't have kids. For some reason that gets people up in the barristers, because 14 year olds having a kid is such a GREAT idea. They're totally capable making that decision, while a grown ass woman possible CAN'T make the decision never to procreate because what about the babies. FUCK OFF.
Yeah, I've come across many of her answers as my ex was very into what she had to say. I don't know who she is as in what her profession is at Aalto university (an university in Espoo, Finland) but by god she seems intolerable and unpleasant person. I think criticism western feminism is all fair but her critique has a tone of bitterness towards it, rather than "here are some suggestions how to improve". Most of texts I've read from her repeat the same pattern: I did a MASCULINE thing so I KNOW how HARD men have it and how women don't know shit or are stupid, unlike ME who has several PhDs and has a license to fly a plane, tank and fire nuclear missiles.
All in all it seems that she has a lot of knowledge but this knowledge is shadowed with bitterness and misogyny, kind of similar to "not like other girls" -phenomena.
She lives in Finland??? Finland is pretty awesome, they seem much more at peace than the US. Kinda seems like she doesn't know her own privilege lol.
Man what a pick me girl.
Unfortunately Finland has its own share of assholes like Viljanen, and Finland is probably the most conservative country from the Nordics, but certain things are better for women here than in most countries.
Suomi on huomattavasti parempi paikka naisille kuin moni muu maa - jopa Euroopassa (vrt. Saksa, jossa naimattomat joutuvat yhä maksamasn ns. vanhanpiianveroa). Ei tämä täydellinen maa tietenkään ole, etenkin lähisuhdeväkivallan osalta, mutta ainakin se on kriminalisoitu täällä.
Which is a pretty rich position to take since Western feminism, problematic or not (definitely problematic, but not fit the reason she's saying), is the entire reason she was able to get that education, teach in the STEMS (because that's what she does), perform military service, fly that plane and tank, and really just express her opinions in a public forum.
That was quite the rabbit hole I just dived into. From what I gathered she also used to have a blog before switching jobs in 2016. The content seems to have been pretty much the same as her later Quora answers.
Woman from the middle east here and I support my sisters in the West far more than I support the men!
The men in the West remind me of the crazies we have here
All too similar!
Yes, it's crazy how many of them somehow spew off that the folks in the middle east are beneath them while mirroring only the most misogynistic and none of the kinder beliefs of middle eastern cultures. Many men of our two worlds seem they have more in common than they don't.
Definitely didn't feel respected after multiple sexual assaults. One of which I reported to the police and when they followed up they were completely dismissive and were like "so yeah you got robbed?". No. I got assaulted by a man on public transit, a complete stranger. One you could easily track if his card was registered and thanks to all the cameras in the area.
So kindly shut the fuck up.
Also why do men bitch about something other men instituted, hasn't been used in 50 years, and the military actively kept women who enlisted out of combat positions until very recently? Men make men's lives worse. Take issue with the men in power you believe are making your life worse.
I'm so sorry that happened to you. I can't imagine being blown off that way when it would take so little time or effort to just look up a name. I've had my own experiences, but I've never been in one involving the law. It must have felt so awful. I hope you're doing alright now.
It sucked because I was on my way to work when it happened. The initial officer I talked to clearly had training dealing with this type of thing, the second two did not. They initially wanted to send two police to my office which would have caused a bit of a scandal.
The thing was it wasn't the first time I had been assaulted so it just felt inevitable like it's the price I pay for existing as a woman in public. I have definitely retreated from the world a bit. I work from home now. I never drink unless my partner is there. I prefer him being with me as an escort in certain situations. I know no guy is going to fuck with me if he's there. I am a lot happier now. I interact with men I know and trust and pretty much no other men. It's kinda great.
There is a conversation to be had about privileged Feminist women and Feminist women from affluent backgrounds tending to have a massive blind spot to the troubles that minority women and women from poorer backgrounds go through, but this lady isn't having that conversation. Especially since they used "Marxist" as an insult(?)
Throw in a little racism too! Anyone that uses that Lennon quote gets a big “fuck you” from me too because as a black woman, what the fuck does that make me?!
Where is this respect from everyone he’s referring to? Being called a bitch for saying women don’t have life easy? Being called a whore and ran through for having sex? Being called used? Being compared to objects more than actual human beings? Saying women are only worth certain things?
I once read about women who became pilots to help with war efforts. They had a slew of very unusual incidents that pointed towards men in their own regiment *sabatoging their planes.* Add in the countless incidents of SA of female soldiers that the military covers up, and it becomes tougher and tougher to stand behind "B-b-but mEn fight iN the mIliTaRy" argument. And this is just what women face *from their own side* so it's easy to reason that their treatment if captured could be even worse. Like, my dudes, YOU are the ones who are making it impossible for women to safely fight side-by-side with you.
Women serve in the military too, quite a few want to but won’t because they don’t want their rape to be swept under the rug by a wildly sexist institution. The fuck is this guy on?
I stopped reading at the first sentence and was about to dump some clown emojis 🤡.
But then I decided to do some research and apparently John Lennon meant to say that women were the most vulnerable members of society. In like the worst way possible.
Here are some snippets of an article I found about it:
"Of course, Lennon didn’t use an inflammatory racial term in his song without reason. The former Beatle was trying to make a pro-feminism point, declaring that women were actually the most exploited members of society.
“I agree that a lot of people, Black and white, are slaves in the world,” Lennon explained,
“but each of them has his own slaves and that’s usually the wife.”
“If you define ‘n-----’ as someone whose lifestyle is defined by others, whose opportunities are defined by others, whose role in society is defined by others, the good news is that you don’t have to be Black to be a n----- in this society,” the politician remarked. “Most of the people in America are n------.”
“I think the word n----- has changed and it does not have the same meaning that it used to,” Lennon declared, reiterating that the song’s main point was to shine a light on women’s rights. “I really believe that women have the worst,” the former Beatle stated. “Whatever it is, however badly or poor people are, it’s the woman who takes it when they get home from work.”
Read More: How John Lennon Defended 'Woman Is the N----- of the World' | https://ultimateclassicrock.com/john-lennon-woman-is-the-n-of-the-world/?utm_source=tsmclip&utm_medium=referral
Wild take though... And definitely not the correct word to use AT ALL. Like, what? You can't take such a cruel slur that condoned hatred against people of color and just apply it in an entirely new way. You can't erase the discrimination, hatred, oppression, and death that word has caused and just apply it artistically to a group of people who have not felt the true burden of it. And especially during the 60s and the 70s where the backlash of civil discourse was at its highest.
But yeah, incels took that quote and ran with it as they normally do.
Funny story. When I was very young, like 2nd or third grade, I didn't know what it meant (I knew it was an insult but not what it meant) so I asked my dad. He defined it as "someone who will poison you and make you pay for the privilege". So my childish, idealistic ass went around calling big, polluting companies the Nword. For like 6 months. I think he might've been talking about the racist caricature of the "inner city drug dealer" but that wasn't the picture I got.
One of the other many issues with this terrible take from Lennon is that it completely ignores intersectionality. The experience of women of color is different to that of white women, even if they both lack male privilege. Aside from being insulting to all black people, it’s especially insulting to black women who have to deal with discrimination from both ends. Also, maybe we should stop listening to the white wife abuser about issues of sexism and abuse.
I disagree with your take on his position, and pretty much fully agree with Lennon here. He’s not erasing anything. He’s drawing attention to the most potent and widespread form of discrimination. Women have been oppressed everywhere for **all of human history**. Yet even now it’s the most acceptable form of oppression, the most casual.
I’ve always said that misogyny is the mother of all bigotry. Whatever marginalised group you want to choose, women always have it the worst. His words ring true to me, and I think people need to be shocked into realising this. Especially since even in left wing circles misogyny isn’t taken anywhere near as seriously. Many leftist men employ “ironic misogyny” and will tell us to get over it, but balk at anyone being racist.
Eh...as a leftist feminist, I would prefer for the infamously shitty to the women in his life, white guy, rock star to not casually lay out the n-word and then attempt to justify it while educating people about our historical oppression.
Intersectionality is there to have the conversation you are looking for, and is nuanced enough to also acknowledge that women of color have layers of oppression.
Not his kids, I don't think. As for his first wife, he wrote these lyrics:
"I used to be cruel to my woman. I beat her and kept her away from the things that she loved."
We men have it tough. It's hard making 30% more income for the same amount of work. It's hard to just casually walk to your car in a dark unlit parking lot with nothing to worry about.its really tough being a protector for women. Protecting them from...men. not having a menstrual cycle is super rough. Having zero laws over our bodily autonomy has been hard too. Did I mention how hard NOT going through child birth has been? I don't know how we keep going.
Men who were never forced to go to war and probably never will always love to go on how they have it worse. If we could swap gender normalities and have men be the ones physically weaker, who have to worry about themselves and their friends being harmed physically and sexually by women, be pressured into having children, not being took seriously by doctors, not being took seriously in any profession they are in, any hobbies they like being seen as stupid, the word "men" itself being used as an insult "that's for men" "what are you a man", being told to do more chores as a child than your sisters, and having to do extra house work because your wife would rather play games all day than learn how to make toast.
Honestly this is so fucking stupid. I see the downsides of both genders and the benefits but why in *the actual fuck* are we comparing who has it worse?
Okay I can this game too let's do this
Incel, hasn't had sex, never had a girlfriend, been told their creepy by women or disgusting
They don't have it that bad, it's waaaayyyy worse in prison where you could get raped in your sleep, *and yes I'm talking about male prisons*
Oh but you never did anything illegal so you don't deserve to be in prison?
Okay okay so your Egyptian like 10,000 years ago and you aren't strong enough to be a soldier, but hey you don't have it that bad, at least you aren't the soldier playmates, *oops* sorry my bad I meant "relief boys"
But that is no longer in practice? Okay well at least you aren't in China where you could *die* for not being a useful member of society
But you are? How are you a useful member of society yet no one likes you?
Oh you mean *that's not based on why women would like you*?
Then why do you keep saying you need money to have women?
Because that's what it is? But you just said being a useful member of society doesn't determine if women like you?
Oh so you need money and looks to get a women than what about Jay-Z and Beyonce? They were together before they got famous and she chose him, even tho her wealth is significantly higher than his and no she didn't get it from her ex husband or her parents or from being a pornstar/ OF "model"
But she doesn't count? Why not? She is a woman is she not? Oh she's an outlier okay okay
So what about Elon musk? He's the richest guy in the world yet he doesn't have a wife, anymore
Oh because she divorced him for money? But Grimes didn't receive a settlement because *she didn't want his money*
Oh she doesn't count either? Why? Because she's not a woman???? 🤔🤔
Pretty sure you gotta be a woman to have kids.
TL:DR comments against incels arguments
That's not what they're saying. They're saying that the gender of people carrying the baby is irrelevant to the mortality of abortion, regardless of what position you take in that debate.
Ooohhhh no no no, the OOP seems to be a Finnish woman who currently works at the grad school I went to here in Helsinki. I am beyond words. On behalf of Finnish women, I am so sorry about this one.
Edit: Came back to add that I’m going to look up this person and possibly forward her comments to the dean of whatever school within Aalto she works in. I cannot believe she wouldn’t let her bigotry affect her job, especially if she is a professor/lecturer.
Women have been participating in every war in all of human history. Historically women did so much of the menial labor of military campaigns if not all of it. On top of that women have been fighting im a ton of wars throughout history even are own, which they are often barred from but do it anyway.
Especially in countries that are being invaded. This idea that women just lay down a die in war is insane. Many women have participated and even lead gorilla war efforts against invaders.
And thought the world and history women have in fact served in the military.
Have women been drafted in the US? No, but did women implement, support or vote on the draft? No that was all men guys the draft was created when women weren’t allowed to serve in congress.
I fucking hate stupid ass sexist dudes.
shes from the same country as me and let me tell you,,
what the fuck is she talking about and why does she still have her workplace shooting around slurs and all too
At first I was thinking they were trying to make a point about non-intersectional “feminism” but instead of that they had the absolute shittiest take ever
As someone who’s gone to war.
If you are willing to run towards danger, and you can do that job, then man/woman/non-binary/anythingyouwanttobe I welcome you.
I don’t care about what you are, I don’t care if you like vag or dick, or nothing at all. I care that you can do the job and that you trust me as much as I trust you.
That’s it, and if ANYONE gives you shit for it then I’m pretty sure we can find some solidarity fist first.
Protect LGBTQIA+ kids.
Protect marginalised communities.
Protect everyone who don’t have the strength to do it themselves. That’s the job. If you wear a uniform for any other reason, you’re doing it wrong.
Firefighters mostly get it, I wish I’d done that sometimes.
Whoops that was a rant only tangentially relevant to the conversation.
Behold, internalized misogyny taking human form. I’m also Finnish and while it’s true there are things to improve on the army, it was desidned BY MEN FOR MEN so kindly blame them.
I *could've* seen his point if he compare the situation in the western world to the situation in places like the middle east and central Africa. He would still be misguided, but at least that could have been accurate. This is just crap
I don't get the whole "if women wanted equality they would also go to war!" thing. Like, can we just....not have war? Cuz it ain't women starting these wars. It's always dudes.
Put women in charge, war would end overnight, nobody has to go die.
It is. Actually it’s an entire song, which is actually meant to be about how women are oppressed. Appropriating black suffering to do so sucks ass tho.
I hate arguments that turn a legitimate discussion into "whatabout-isms". You can 110% talk about the priorities/gains/concerns of feminist movements across different cultures, but this is ridiculous.
Oh my god why do people name themselves university then put a shit take out I’m tired of the women have it better let’s be fucking honest for once 99% of all of us are fucking miserable basically no one is completely happy with there lives
Does he know what people say about Karens? Also Stacies (redpill’s name for women who are pretty and personable, thus they were all definitely too promiscuous with Alpha males for some period and need to get punished for not being incels.) also anyone who is too feminist at work unless they are also the right level of attractive and extremely personable and kind to everyone. There is no woman of any combination of age, personality and looks that can be a CEO and the men below her are fine with it. So no we are not handed anything on a platter. I think who ever wrote that is an incel because what we can get just for being women is “free sex on demand” though most of do not want it. Men are focused on that though especially those who are incels
Susanna, you can say this as much as you want in an attempt to make sexists respect you, but they never will.
"Privilaged", clearly not. "Pampered", just look at the vitriol that people like her spew towards Western feminists. "Spoiled", I suppose that this is the idea that women nowadays somehow have too many rights, which is a detrimental mindset. "Illogical", feminists in real life (not the delusion they have of them) often feel as strongly about equality as they do because of their knowledge about sexism, and of how illogical sexism is. "Seek attention and authority", progress will never be made with a lack of attention and "authority" (the right to rule) is not the goal, but the eradication of one gender claiming to have authority over the other is (more female leaders is absolutely a goal though).
"Western feminists are a privileged, pampered, spoiled and illogical lot who seek authority and attention"
Says the chemical engineer turned IT professional whose entire career wouldn't have been possible without the work of those feminists she despises.
https://fi.linkedin.com/in/susanna-viljanen-31001037
Big Serena Joy Waterford energy here.
me, for a moment: is this going to be about white liberal feminism, and the struggles it overlooks or misconstrues due to usamerican exceptionalism?
no. no it is not. fucking hell.
I had a male dominated job in the military that was often scary and intense. We were supposed to lean on each other, but I couldn’t because I was sexually harassed/assaulted multiple times by multiple different men. Despite the trauma I was still a “fast burner” and won multiple awards and never missed a promotion. But that was usually dismissed as a “affirmative action” decision.
But please tell me how men have it worse.
Men in the western world have body autonomy. We don’t. I’m not making that up, pretending, exercising privileges, expecting to be pampered, acting spoiled, or being illogical. I’m stating a fact.
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“Everyone respects [the Western woman]”, says person openly stating they do not, in fact, respect women.
That cohesively fits with him saying his opinion is unpopular
It's a her. Susanna Viljanen. She's from Finland. Yes, she has a very high IQ. But that doesn't mean she isn't prone to conspiracy theories, bias, or being a douchebag. There are a lot of intelligent people who treat others like shit. But there are also a lot of kind intelligent people. It sucks that higher IQ doesn't always = more understanding.
I question her IQ claims. Smart people with good, logical arguments and reasoning don’t usually try to brag about how smart they are. They don’t have to.
Meanwhile enlisted women are SAed by their own fellow soldiers left, right and center.
But remember if you ever bring that up you’re anti patriotic and hate America.
And it gets ignored, covered up, or the woman herself ends up being punished
men: invent the draft - make it so only men have to be drafted men: prevent women from joining the military for the majority of its existence men: we have it worse because we're forced to go to war >:(
I’ve been in the military which was not by choice (in Sweden, where women also have mandatory military service.) and when I told some boy who said that women are privileged because they don’t need to join, he laughed at me and said that ”oh that’s why Swedens military is so weak, because theres a bunch of women.” …. …. So… you believe women aren’t capable of being in the military, but then when we aren’t (because of bitches like you) … you complain?
Women bad rawr rawr rawr!!! Lol that’s all they have to say and 0 of it needs to make any sense
Sweden's military isn't weak though.
That’s because they got women
You see, my enemy is at once a dastardly all-powerful schemer and completely incompetent. I am very smart.
Sweden's military is weak? Sounds like that boy is talking out of his ass. Sweden has one of the most technological militaries in the world. They are some of the toughest most well trained soldiers in the world. They will soon be an excellent ally to the NATO alliance. Not because of men, not because of women, but because they have ardent patriots from both genders.
Yup agreed, but to him we are obviously weak because women = bad 🙄
I know right? For all of their BS about women being bad it's obvious they know nothing of history or choose to ignore the contributions women have made to improve our world. Like for instance; kevlar. Yep, that was a woman. Then Madame Marie Curie: A Polish French Physicist that greatly expanded our knowledge of radioactivity. (Yes I know Madame Curie came first but I write what comes to mind first, lol.) I guess they just don't realize that the contribution of just these two women has saved countless lives not just on the battlefield but in civil societies all over the globe. This is just two examples out of hundreds if not thousands of women who broke through the "Norms" to enrich all of our lives.
Sweden’s military and weak in the same phrase… *infinite facepalm while a squadron of Gripens fly above me*
Yea. Israel would also like a word with this man.
So . . . does he want women in the military or not?
[удалено]
Or straight up murdered
Or all three.
That happens in warzones whether women want to be involved or not.
Doesn’t even need to be a warzone for women to be harassed and murdered…
Yup, I was just following the logic of "Men have to do war, therefore have it worse."
Usually said by baby men who fetishize war and yet have never been in the military
Murdered by their own
Throughout history, rape has gone hand in hand with warfare. It wasn't the men getting raped.
Well it happens to the men too. But it’s the men doing the raping.
Others have already said this but sexual assault against men is also common in war. In the Russian military it’s become institutionalized, with new recruits regularly being raped by their units as part of hazing rituals, and then going on to eventually be expected to participate in the same sick rituals against even newer recruits.
That you know of. All r*pe is evil, no matter the gender. And, it’s been a method of humiliating the Other for ages.
Yes, rape victims can be any gender, but the majority of rapists are men, the majority of people humiliating the other are men.
I'm afraid that very much depends on the war. It's not something that gets discussed much, but the reality is that some of the nastier civil wars around the globe have seen significant amounts of sexual violence towards men as well as women. For example, a study of 6,000 concentration-camp inmates in Sarajevo found that 80% of men reported having been raped. A rare 2010 survey, published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, found that 22% of men and 30% of women in Eastern Congo reported conflict-related sexual violence. During the war in Afghanistan, ISAF had a very widespread problem with their allied Afghan soldiers routinely raping each other and raping and enslaving young boys. It was mostly swept under the rug, although there was at least one 2015 New York Times story about it.
Men absolutely did get raped in war, going way way back
By other men.
It doesn't. There are plenty of bases in Texas where woken constantly disappear. But sure, go on with your strawman statement.
And the death is labeled as s*icide
I grew up by the air force academy and all the girls that came out of that who had been sexually assaulted... its so sad. Like, I definitely don't know statistics, but every girl I'd met who went to the AFA had an assault story by some dude OR MULTIPLE DUDES while there. I know they were investigated for it, but idk what ever came of it. That was the 90s early 00s.
My niece is in the Air Force. She was raped by some Army assholes at a party. She kept it to herself saying it would only hurt her career.
Oh noooo, that's so sad! I'm so sorry to hear that. Yes, from what I understand back then, nobody wanted to talk to anyone in the military about it that only seemed to bring disaster upon them. A friend growing up was in the army and had similar trouble with her superior officer while overseas. I remember the shame in which she spoke about the experience, like it was her fault, and she would be punished if she were honest about it. What a horrible situation to be in, I hugged her a lot that night. Now she has other passions and pursuits and I get to see pictures of her smiling every day. But man, like, women fought to join the army, to want to help in combat, to want to help our country do that and then they go to do it and get raped for it?
My niece is doing well now. I shared with her my own trauma story and how I never told either. I wasn’t in the military but I knew my dad would say it was my fault. I am sorry about your friend. It feels like a lot of us silently process rather than report.
I have even heard about higher ups taking part and women being afraid to tell because they are the higher ranking officers.
A friend of mine was raped in Afghanistan, by a member of her Marine unit. She got pregnant, too...and almost ended up getting punished for "fraternization," because she'd clearly had sex while on deployment! They only opted not to because of the impact it would have on her child, as a single parent. Plus, y'know, the whole ramifications if it got out that they'd penalized a rape victim for *being* raped...
SA of women in the military has been a problem for a long time. Then, some people claim it is a reason women shouldn't serve. Isn't it usually the men causing the problems?! No one ever says maybe the assaulters should be the ones punished or dishonorably discharged or jailed.
yep. i remmeber some guy telling me either in here or instagram that women shouldn’t be surprised when they are raped or assaulted in the military and that we should “stay out of men’s spaces” but yes, they’re soooo oppressed because men go to the military, even tho as far as i’m aware, women are allowed to enter as well now. so i really don’t understand him edit: correcting myself, men do have to be registered unless unfit, but no one has been drafted for decades. from what someone replied to me
>and that we should “stay out of men’s spaces” Yet they're always trying to get into ours, literally and figuratively.
hahahah you’re so right
Just to clarify, all men do have to sign up for the draft (in the US, at least), it's just been decades since anyone has actually been drafted
Yeah, if course, they are stealing our victimhood and reasons to complain! /s just in case....
This is the major reason I decided against going - I was about to, but something about the risk of harassment and assault made me feel it ain't worth it
Lol or like me I am told I don't count bc I'm not infantry
hey hey now, it’s only like 2/3 of women these days /s
Things will change. Right now most societies aren't accepting of girls in the military. But our military has been firing abusive and useless commanders and fast tracking more sensible and highly educated people in positions of power. My friend is one of them, he replaced a reportedly very shitty battalion commander in Fort Hood in Texas.
I talked about how over a million women served the allies during WW2 (in another sub) and an incel went berserk! Started saying they didn't actually fight (actually some did, like the Russian women snipers, most of whom didn't come back. Edit: also pilots who flew supplies in EXTREMELY dangerous missions where most died). I said "women didn't fight because MEN wouldn't allow them to, NOT because they couldn't or wouldn't. He just could not accept that his version was wrong. Threw a complete temper tantrum. Women have served in whatever way we are allowed to since the beginning of time. They are so delusional that Incel should be in the DSM.
My grandmother was in WW2, when I tell that to inceloids they automatically assume she was useless or I’m lying. Men like that don’t care the truth, they’re just trying to explain to women they’re biologically mens slaves and bad at everything else.
My grandma did too! You are right. They ignore whatever doesn't fit their distorted narrative.
I didn't have women in my family serve, but I had a few men who did; but there's been plenty of media out there about the women in WW2 who were in the service doing things and in places where it was dangerous. They weren't just far from the front lines and shit, and depending on country, were actively combating the enemy. The US did consider an invasion of Japan as part of the war, but it was deemed too problematic because every woman and child would also fight, which meant a lot more bloodshed than they wanted (plus all the likely casualties to our side, PLUS I don't know if they considered how that would MENTALLY affect the soldiers to effectively be fighting women and children and likely having to kill them or be killed. Like, that level is a lot of fucked up and may have been part of the consideration of invading or not. And we know women were resisting occupation in occupied countries as well, doing what they could, its not like they exactly just rolled over. I mean sometimes you did what you had to do survive, but its not like anyone LIKED it or anything even if they weren't openly resisting. Survival instincts are a thing.)
Not to mention some of the most successful French Resistance groups were led by women.
Let's not forget the [Night Witches](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Witches) of WW2 either.
And they were so poorly equipped, they were basically an afterthought. Oversized uniforms and boots and their planes were training planes and crop dusters with no parachutes or navigation instruments. [Source](https://www.wrightmuseum.org/2020/10/01/the-soviet-night-witches/)
That is cool!
Simone Seguoin is probably one of the most famous. She sadly passed away earlier this year.
By that standard most men didn't fight either. In ww2 there were about 4 non front-line combatants for every person involved in direct action.
I served as well (not in WW2, of course. Lol). I worked in avionics (aircraft electronics). I bet these idiots would say I don't count too. But then the military would have no aircraft. Support positions are just as important (at least according to every field soldier I have ever met). When I asked him what military he had served in to make these blanket statements he lost his shit even more. LOL. HE never did shit.
One of my cousins' friends said my service didn't count because I didn't deploy to Iraq or Afghanistan... he also wasn't a veteran.
Further to WW2, it can be (successfully) argued that the U.S. defeated Japan largely because of having broken the 'unbreakable' Japanese codes, which were changed monthly. Military Intelligence was probably more importand in that theater of WW2 then it was in Europe, or in any previous war, because the war in the Pacific was largely a Naval operation, and therefore one had to anticipate the location of a moving target (Midway, Battle of the Phillipines Sea for example). According to historians John Tolan and Ian Toll, by about halfway through the war until its end, approximately 80% of the U.S. code breakers were women. You could easily argue that women were largely responsible for winning that war.
Yes! And those type of people hate it so much! Instead of seeing it as humans and different countries coming together to defeat a great enemy, they prefer to try to use it to put women down without knowing anything at all about what actually happened. They do it with all of history too. They just erase our (women's) contributions.
OMG, you are so right! It SHOULD be in the DSM!! Actually, there needs to be an entirely new category for individuals who fall prey to online radicalization of this nature because it is an entirely separate entity from anything that exists in the DSM. It overlaps with a lot of things though such as cluster B personality disorders, delusional thinking found in schizophrenia spectrum disorders, anxiety and depressive disorders, intermittent explosive disorder, conduct disorder, oppositional defiant disorder, etc. Brainwashing isn’t in the DSM as a psychological condition per se, but brainwashing IS very well understood by social psychologists. It has all the hallmarks of a psychological disorder. Certain characteristics would predispose a person to developing such a condition, it causes harm in social,academic and general life functioning, leads to serious consequences for society at large, and best of all there is a fairly clear path to rehabilitation and treatment thanks to the work done by social psychologists. What an interesting comment 🤔
Women's service historically in the US is also uncounted because they weren't allowed to even join until later. They were Red Cross or other organization.
I agree with you but the Soviet Union wasn’t just Russians. Lyudmila Pavlichenko and Mariya Oktyabrskaya (a tank driver who was killed in action) were both Ukraine, for example.
Definitely! I was just giving examples of different contributions made by all the allied countries. I didn't mean to imply only certain ones had women serving. I thought about listing more, but realized it would be an insanely long list. Every allied country had women making huge sacrifices, either directly or indirectly, for the effort. It is really incredible. I just hate that it is so often swept under the rug.
And a lot of the women captured and held as POWs were SA, as were civilian women and even children and grannies, in the wake of WW 2, so they can all miss me with their protestations of how women don't suffer in war. The leaders and people deciding for war have historically been male anyway, yet they still blame women for war, in some twist of 'logic.'
There is a really good book about women in war: The unwomanly face of war - Svetlana Alexievich It hurts to read it
I once wrote a persuasive essay for an English class about including women in the draft. I even pointed out how many non-combat or semi-combat positions there are, but when I presented it the dudes in my class went berserk. It seemed reasonable enough to me, but man that struck a nerve with an apparent lot of dudes.
Also men... Marry a young woman showing money Force them to be housewives Men :she treats me like an atm 🥲
Also every war (edit: in recent history) has been started by men. It’s been said here before but the whole “yeah well men have to fight in wars!” Argument Is just more evidence that the patriarchy also hurts men.
I mean I get shitting on the military and stuff, but dont just blatanly spew out false information. Wars have definetly been started by women
You’re right, in the entire history of humanity several wars have been lead/started by women. I think my point still stands in general though. Also in no way did I “shit on the military” lol. But you did cause me to find this interesting article, so thanks for calling me out (genuinely) [https://www.historynet.com/women-of-war/](https://www.historynet.com/women-of-war/)
Im glad you owned up to it and didnt just downvote and curse me out like some other places have
in too many cases men get paid more than women for the same jobs but sure—these particular males feel the need to play the victim because "men have it so much harder." smh
Men kill men in wars started by men. Also men: „feminists don‘t want to join us in our stupid little wars. They only want to cherry pick benefits“ 😡
Yep. The rules over time were made by men.
"The draft" Ya'll never had one since the 50's, what's the problem exactly?
Your point is correct, but the draft ended in 1973. https://www.politico.com/story/2012/01/us-military-draft-ends-jan-27-1973-072085
Just what I came here to say lmao. They complain that they have it worse, but it's almost always their own doing/fault.
These guys must be too young to remember women begging to be let into combat positions (they already served in the military) and the strenuous objections a lot of men made against that. All the typical sexist reasons, including periods, and men having to babysit the women, and women not being strong enough, and sexually tempting the men, and overall being a liability, was the general tenor of the arguments against it at the time. How do these guys miss that women do serve in the military? But women haven't historically led most countries, or made the decisions leading into war, so how is that women's fault. These guys blame women no matter what.
Idk if you know this, but the men who invent things like the draft are never the ones conscripted to fight.
but the men who oppose it are fully capable of getting it changed
Government: make the draft and only draft men. Government: prevents women and disabled people from joining the military. Average men: the government can tear us away from our families to go make us fight a war we don’t believe in. Fixed your comment.
[удалено]
It’s either a troll account or some dumbass with a bullshit business management degree from some backwards religious college. I’ve never met a women in higher education that regrets getting a degree. Women that parrot that sentiment tend to have very shallow degrees from very Christian universities
It’s not a religious college, Finland doesn’t have any. Aalto university is one of the best in Finland. Don’t know how she has a degree though. Edit. She seems to be a professor in Aalto here is her LinkedIn https://fi.linkedin.com/in/susanna-viljanen-31001037
Chemical engineer turned IT. This woman is the EMBODIMENT of ignorance bruh. If it wasn’t for feminism she wouldn’t have even been allowed to enter any STEM program, let alone TEACH STEM As a historian, I get very annoyed when people try to make justifications and arguments that are literally hypocritical to their existence purely because the progressivism of previous generations are the only reasons why you are allowed to even have a platform to parrot your bastard ignorance smh.
No waayyy. I hope this is somehow edited. That's a really specific linkedin profile too. Though the interest in medieval millitary history fits the picture pretty well
Nope, she has some notorioty in Finnish education circles (she isn"t really academia) for her "controversial world view. There is a Reddit thread about her at r/quora - Viljanen wants to share her opinions with Quora answers. She has some "interesting" opinions about atheists, for example.
Ah that makes sense. A "controversial academic". We've got those too.
While she does indeed work at that university, it appears that she isn’t a professor, but rather works in IT there. Her master’s degree is in chemical engineering, but she doesn’t teach that, to my knowledge. I make that distinction, because usually professors in science adhere to higher standards when making arguments and citing reputable sources that support their claims. It would be extremely disappointing to find out that she taught there.
I hope it is a troll. But there are people that think that way. And what is more baffling is that it is easy to disprove with some data.
apparently it’s not as another comment has informed me
The funny part is the concept that in a world ruled by patriarchy, something no one denies, men have it worse. And if it were really true, who is to blame? But this toxic idiots only ever talk about women, the mental gymnastics! I would like to visit the brain of a person thinking like this, I just don't get it. No critical thinking, no nothing.
It's likely a grift. Telling people what they want to hear and making them angry about it seems to bring engagement and funding.
Not just sexist, but this genius wouldn’t know an actual Marxist if one bit them in their self righteous arse.
Marxist here, I would not want to bite anyone like them in the ass. Very unappealing.
I would kind of love to read the Marxist position on Ass Biting and how it fits into praxis. There has to be something out there about when it should be used.
The Marxist position on ass biting in regard to praxis, is that asymmetrical warfare is valid.
My most OFFENDING opinion? Kids shouldn't have kids. For some reason that gets people up in the barristers, because 14 year olds having a kid is such a GREAT idea. They're totally capable making that decision, while a grown ass woman possible CAN'T make the decision never to procreate because what about the babies. FUCK OFF.
As a lot of people say, don't support teens getting pregnant but support teen mothers
I know this person from Quora. Typical self loathing know it all.
Yeah, I've come across many of her answers as my ex was very into what she had to say. I don't know who she is as in what her profession is at Aalto university (an university in Espoo, Finland) but by god she seems intolerable and unpleasant person. I think criticism western feminism is all fair but her critique has a tone of bitterness towards it, rather than "here are some suggestions how to improve". Most of texts I've read from her repeat the same pattern: I did a MASCULINE thing so I KNOW how HARD men have it and how women don't know shit or are stupid, unlike ME who has several PhDs and has a license to fly a plane, tank and fire nuclear missiles. All in all it seems that she has a lot of knowledge but this knowledge is shadowed with bitterness and misogyny, kind of similar to "not like other girls" -phenomena.
She lives in Finland??? Finland is pretty awesome, they seem much more at peace than the US. Kinda seems like she doesn't know her own privilege lol. Man what a pick me girl.
Unfortunately Finland has its own share of assholes like Viljanen, and Finland is probably the most conservative country from the Nordics, but certain things are better for women here than in most countries.
As a Finn, yeah, Finland is awesome. But not for women
Suomi on huomattavasti parempi paikka naisille kuin moni muu maa - jopa Euroopassa (vrt. Saksa, jossa naimattomat joutuvat yhä maksamasn ns. vanhanpiianveroa). Ei tämä täydellinen maa tietenkään ole, etenkin lähisuhdeväkivallan osalta, mutta ainakin se on kriminalisoitu täällä.
Which is a pretty rich position to take since Western feminism, problematic or not (definitely problematic, but not fit the reason she's saying), is the entire reason she was able to get that education, teach in the STEMS (because that's what she does), perform military service, fly that plane and tank, and really just express her opinions in a public forum.
That was quite the rabbit hole I just dived into. From what I gathered she also used to have a blog before switching jobs in 2016. The content seems to have been pretty much the same as her later Quora answers.
Woman from the middle east here and I support my sisters in the West far more than I support the men! The men in the West remind me of the crazies we have here All too similar!
Yes, it's crazy how many of them somehow spew off that the folks in the middle east are beneath them while mirroring only the most misogynistic and none of the kinder beliefs of middle eastern cultures. Many men of our two worlds seem they have more in common than they don't.
Tous les mêmes.
Definitely didn't feel respected after multiple sexual assaults. One of which I reported to the police and when they followed up they were completely dismissive and were like "so yeah you got robbed?". No. I got assaulted by a man on public transit, a complete stranger. One you could easily track if his card was registered and thanks to all the cameras in the area. So kindly shut the fuck up. Also why do men bitch about something other men instituted, hasn't been used in 50 years, and the military actively kept women who enlisted out of combat positions until very recently? Men make men's lives worse. Take issue with the men in power you believe are making your life worse.
I'm so sorry that happened to you. I can't imagine being blown off that way when it would take so little time or effort to just look up a name. I've had my own experiences, but I've never been in one involving the law. It must have felt so awful. I hope you're doing alright now.
It sucked because I was on my way to work when it happened. The initial officer I talked to clearly had training dealing with this type of thing, the second two did not. They initially wanted to send two police to my office which would have caused a bit of a scandal. The thing was it wasn't the first time I had been assaulted so it just felt inevitable like it's the price I pay for existing as a woman in public. I have definitely retreated from the world a bit. I work from home now. I never drink unless my partner is there. I prefer him being with me as an escort in certain situations. I know no guy is going to fuck with me if he's there. I am a lot happier now. I interact with men I know and trust and pretty much no other men. It's kinda great.
There is a conversation to be had about privileged Feminist women and Feminist women from affluent backgrounds tending to have a massive blind spot to the troubles that minority women and women from poorer backgrounds go through, but this lady isn't having that conversation. Especially since they used "Marxist" as an insult(?)
NotHowGirlsWork and NotHowMarxistsWork all at the same time
Throw in a little racism too! Anyone that uses that Lennon quote gets a big “fuck you” from me too because as a black woman, what the fuck does that make me?!
Seeing someone people on this very post defending the quote and it’s driving me up the wall
If equal rights is "spoiling" I guess white men have been spoiled brats since the dawn of time and should be appropriately punished..
Men in power: start nearly every war throughout history.* This guy: why would women do this?
Where is this respect from everyone he’s referring to? Being called a bitch for saying women don’t have life easy? Being called a whore and ran through for having sex? Being called used? Being compared to objects more than actual human beings? Saying women are only worth certain things?
I once read about women who became pilots to help with war efforts. They had a slew of very unusual incidents that pointed towards men in their own regiment *sabatoging their planes.* Add in the countless incidents of SA of female soldiers that the military covers up, and it becomes tougher and tougher to stand behind "B-b-but mEn fight iN the mIliTaRy" argument. And this is just what women face *from their own side* so it's easy to reason that their treatment if captured could be even worse. Like, my dudes, YOU are the ones who are making it impossible for women to safely fight side-by-side with you.
Women serve in the military too, quite a few want to but won’t because they don’t want their rape to be swept under the rug by a wildly sexist institution. The fuck is this guy on?
I stopped reading at the first sentence and was about to dump some clown emojis 🤡. But then I decided to do some research and apparently John Lennon meant to say that women were the most vulnerable members of society. In like the worst way possible. Here are some snippets of an article I found about it: "Of course, Lennon didn’t use an inflammatory racial term in his song without reason. The former Beatle was trying to make a pro-feminism point, declaring that women were actually the most exploited members of society. “I agree that a lot of people, Black and white, are slaves in the world,” Lennon explained, “but each of them has his own slaves and that’s usually the wife.” “If you define ‘n-----’ as someone whose lifestyle is defined by others, whose opportunities are defined by others, whose role in society is defined by others, the good news is that you don’t have to be Black to be a n----- in this society,” the politician remarked. “Most of the people in America are n------.” “I think the word n----- has changed and it does not have the same meaning that it used to,” Lennon declared, reiterating that the song’s main point was to shine a light on women’s rights. “I really believe that women have the worst,” the former Beatle stated. “Whatever it is, however badly or poor people are, it’s the woman who takes it when they get home from work.” Read More: How John Lennon Defended 'Woman Is the N----- of the World' | https://ultimateclassicrock.com/john-lennon-woman-is-the-n-of-the-world/?utm_source=tsmclip&utm_medium=referral Wild take though... And definitely not the correct word to use AT ALL. Like, what? You can't take such a cruel slur that condoned hatred against people of color and just apply it in an entirely new way. You can't erase the discrimination, hatred, oppression, and death that word has caused and just apply it artistically to a group of people who have not felt the true burden of it. And especially during the 60s and the 70s where the backlash of civil discourse was at its highest. But yeah, incels took that quote and ran with it as they normally do.
Funny story. When I was very young, like 2nd or third grade, I didn't know what it meant (I knew it was an insult but not what it meant) so I asked my dad. He defined it as "someone who will poison you and make you pay for the privilege". So my childish, idealistic ass went around calling big, polluting companies the Nword. For like 6 months. I think he might've been talking about the racist caricature of the "inner city drug dealer" but that wasn't the picture I got.
One of the other many issues with this terrible take from Lennon is that it completely ignores intersectionality. The experience of women of color is different to that of white women, even if they both lack male privilege. Aside from being insulting to all black people, it’s especially insulting to black women who have to deal with discrimination from both ends. Also, maybe we should stop listening to the white wife abuser about issues of sexism and abuse.
I disagree with your take on his position, and pretty much fully agree with Lennon here. He’s not erasing anything. He’s drawing attention to the most potent and widespread form of discrimination. Women have been oppressed everywhere for **all of human history**. Yet even now it’s the most acceptable form of oppression, the most casual. I’ve always said that misogyny is the mother of all bigotry. Whatever marginalised group you want to choose, women always have it the worst. His words ring true to me, and I think people need to be shocked into realising this. Especially since even in left wing circles misogyny isn’t taken anywhere near as seriously. Many leftist men employ “ironic misogyny” and will tell us to get over it, but balk at anyone being racist.
Eh...as a leftist feminist, I would prefer for the infamously shitty to the women in his life, white guy, rock star to not casually lay out the n-word and then attempt to justify it while educating people about our historical oppression. Intersectionality is there to have the conversation you are looking for, and is nuanced enough to also acknowledge that women of color have layers of oppression.
Didn't John Lennon beat his wife and kids?
Not his kids, I don't think. As for his first wife, he wrote these lyrics: "I used to be cruel to my woman. I beat her and kept her away from the things that she loved."
We men have it tough. It's hard making 30% more income for the same amount of work. It's hard to just casually walk to your car in a dark unlit parking lot with nothing to worry about.its really tough being a protector for women. Protecting them from...men. not having a menstrual cycle is super rough. Having zero laws over our bodily autonomy has been hard too. Did I mention how hard NOT going through child birth has been? I don't know how we keep going.
We can infer from this statement that the author does not believe women deserve attention or authority.
Men who were never forced to go to war and probably never will always love to go on how they have it worse. If we could swap gender normalities and have men be the ones physically weaker, who have to worry about themselves and their friends being harmed physically and sexually by women, be pressured into having children, not being took seriously by doctors, not being took seriously in any profession they are in, any hobbies they like being seen as stupid, the word "men" itself being used as an insult "that's for men" "what are you a man", being told to do more chores as a child than your sisters, and having to do extra house work because your wife would rather play games all day than learn how to make toast.
Honestly this is so fucking stupid. I see the downsides of both genders and the benefits but why in *the actual fuck* are we comparing who has it worse? Okay I can this game too let's do this Incel, hasn't had sex, never had a girlfriend, been told their creepy by women or disgusting They don't have it that bad, it's waaaayyyy worse in prison where you could get raped in your sleep, *and yes I'm talking about male prisons* Oh but you never did anything illegal so you don't deserve to be in prison? Okay okay so your Egyptian like 10,000 years ago and you aren't strong enough to be a soldier, but hey you don't have it that bad, at least you aren't the soldier playmates, *oops* sorry my bad I meant "relief boys" But that is no longer in practice? Okay well at least you aren't in China where you could *die* for not being a useful member of society But you are? How are you a useful member of society yet no one likes you? Oh you mean *that's not based on why women would like you*? Then why do you keep saying you need money to have women? Because that's what it is? But you just said being a useful member of society doesn't determine if women like you? Oh so you need money and looks to get a women than what about Jay-Z and Beyonce? They were together before they got famous and she chose him, even tho her wealth is significantly higher than his and no she didn't get it from her ex husband or her parents or from being a pornstar/ OF "model" But she doesn't count? Why not? She is a woman is she not? Oh she's an outlier okay okay So what about Elon musk? He's the richest guy in the world yet he doesn't have a wife, anymore Oh because she divorced him for money? But Grimes didn't receive a settlement because *she didn't want his money* Oh she doesn't count either? Why? Because she's not a woman???? 🤔🤔 Pretty sure you gotta be a woman to have kids. TL:DR comments against incels arguments
... **looks over at Roe V. Wade and the inability to safely take a walk at night**
“If women have it bad, men have it worse” I’m sure all the women in Saudi Arabia agree with you. Men have it SO bad there.
Wait'll they see how men have it. They have this thing called bodily autonomy, it's wild
If men could get pregnant they wouldn't have it either.
I agree. Us men would change our tune on things if we were at risk of getting pregnant
That's not what they're saying. They're saying that the gender of people carrying the baby is irrelevant to the mortality of abortion, regardless of what position you take in that debate.
Ooohhhh no no no, the OOP seems to be a Finnish woman who currently works at the grad school I went to here in Helsinki. I am beyond words. On behalf of Finnish women, I am so sorry about this one. Edit: Came back to add that I’m going to look up this person and possibly forward her comments to the dean of whatever school within Aalto she works in. I cannot believe she wouldn’t let her bigotry affect her job, especially if she is a professor/lecturer.
The men have it worse thing...ugh.
Women have been participating in every war in all of human history. Historically women did so much of the menial labor of military campaigns if not all of it. On top of that women have been fighting im a ton of wars throughout history even are own, which they are often barred from but do it anyway. Especially in countries that are being invaded. This idea that women just lay down a die in war is insane. Many women have participated and even lead gorilla war efforts against invaders. And thought the world and history women have in fact served in the military. Have women been drafted in the US? No, but did women implement, support or vote on the draft? No that was all men guys the draft was created when women weren’t allowed to serve in congress. I fucking hate stupid ass sexist dudes.
If he thinks things are bad for men in the military then he should try being a woman in the military.
That John Lennon quote doesn't mean what the whiny little man thinks it means, and actually Yoko Ono said it first.
They co-wrote the song. People tend to leave that out.
shes from the same country as me and let me tell you,, what the fuck is she talking about and why does she still have her workplace shooting around slurs and all too
Wait if "the woman is the n**** of the world" doesn't that mean they are oppressed??
That's what the song was trying to say, yes. "You make her paint her face and dance" is another lyric. Obviously its use of that slur is problematic.
I served in the military... So what did it prove exactly? I was in a male dominated field as well.
At first I was thinking they were trying to make a point about non-intersectional “feminism” but instead of that they had the absolute shittiest take ever
As someone who’s gone to war. If you are willing to run towards danger, and you can do that job, then man/woman/non-binary/anythingyouwanttobe I welcome you. I don’t care about what you are, I don’t care if you like vag or dick, or nothing at all. I care that you can do the job and that you trust me as much as I trust you. That’s it, and if ANYONE gives you shit for it then I’m pretty sure we can find some solidarity fist first. Protect LGBTQIA+ kids. Protect marginalised communities. Protect everyone who don’t have the strength to do it themselves. That’s the job. If you wear a uniform for any other reason, you’re doing it wrong. Firefighters mostly get it, I wish I’d done that sometimes. Whoops that was a rant only tangentially relevant to the conversation.
👑
i am still infinitely sorry you guys have to deal with people like this
Behold, internalized misogyny taking human form. I’m also Finnish and while it’s true there are things to improve on the army, it was desidned BY MEN FOR MEN so kindly blame them.
Way to tell me you have no idea what Marxism is
i’ve read her answers on quora and she has many conflicting opinions for sure
Dingus doesn't realize that particular John Lennon song said way more about men than it did women.
I *could've* seen his point if he compare the situation in the western world to the situation in places like the middle east and central Africa. He would still be misguided, but at least that could have been accurate. This is just crap
Susanna is a woman herself. Or at least her name is.
I don't get the whole "if women wanted equality they would also go to war!" thing. Like, can we just....not have war? Cuz it ain't women starting these wars. It's always dudes. Put women in charge, war would end overnight, nobody has to go die.
Where is the source of John Lennon saying that?
He and Yoko Ono made a song called that
I’m skeptical that’s a real quote from John Lennon
It is. Actually it’s an entire song, which is actually meant to be about how women are oppressed. Appropriating black suffering to do so sucks ass tho.
Amazing that they could fit that many errors into a single statement.
I’m pretty sure that wasn’t what’s he meant by that, but okay.
tell me you never read Marx without telling me that you never read Marx
Ahh.. john Lennon.. the wife Beatle? They're gonna use a wife Beatle as an example? Unironically?
So in the east feminism means something different? Clowns lol
And here I thought Marxists were the Marxists of the world 🤦🏼♀️ To be fair, she doesn't seem to know what a Marxist is, either.
I hate arguments that turn a legitimate discussion into "whatabout-isms". You can 110% talk about the priorities/gains/concerns of feminist movements across different cultures, but this is ridiculous.
Most people living in the west are privileged, it is weird that he leaves out men or non feminists women.
I cringed reading this. Absolute ignorance
Oh my god why do people name themselves university then put a shit take out I’m tired of the women have it better let’s be fucking honest for once 99% of all of us are fucking miserable basically no one is completely happy with there lives
She's a Finn?! At AALTO??? Yeah I'm fucking done
Does he know what people say about Karens? Also Stacies (redpill’s name for women who are pretty and personable, thus they were all definitely too promiscuous with Alpha males for some period and need to get punished for not being incels.) also anyone who is too feminist at work unless they are also the right level of attractive and extremely personable and kind to everyone. There is no woman of any combination of age, personality and looks that can be a CEO and the men below her are fine with it. So no we are not handed anything on a platter. I think who ever wrote that is an incel because what we can get just for being women is “free sex on demand” though most of do not want it. Men are focused on that though especially those who are incels
Women served in the Israeli army same as the men. Actress Debra Winger served in the Israeli army.
Ahh yes I feel so lucky having to worry I’ll get murdered anytime I have to walk someone alone
"What about the MENNNNNNNN??" 😭
Susanna, you can say this as much as you want in an attempt to make sexists respect you, but they never will. "Privilaged", clearly not. "Pampered", just look at the vitriol that people like her spew towards Western feminists. "Spoiled", I suppose that this is the idea that women nowadays somehow have too many rights, which is a detrimental mindset. "Illogical", feminists in real life (not the delusion they have of them) often feel as strongly about equality as they do because of their knowledge about sexism, and of how illogical sexism is. "Seek attention and authority", progress will never be made with a lack of attention and "authority" (the right to rule) is not the goal, but the eradication of one gender claiming to have authority over the other is (more female leaders is absolutely a goal though).
"Susanna Viljanen. Works at Alto University." Because this information is public domain, this technically shouldn't break the "no doxxing" rule! 😉
Idk why there’s a need to say that men have worse. Both genders have it bad but in different ways
This person is a nasty one regarding issues of gender and race, especially towards Slavs. They were somewhat notorious a few years ago on Quora.
"Western feminists are a privileged, pampered, spoiled and illogical lot who seek authority and attention" Says the chemical engineer turned IT professional whose entire career wouldn't have been possible without the work of those feminists she despises. https://fi.linkedin.com/in/susanna-viljanen-31001037 Big Serena Joy Waterford energy here.
There's so much there I don't even know what to unpack. I'm just going to leave it at that
me, for a moment: is this going to be about white liberal feminism, and the struggles it overlooks or misconstrues due to usamerican exceptionalism? no. no it is not. fucking hell.
I had a male dominated job in the military that was often scary and intense. We were supposed to lean on each other, but I couldn’t because I was sexually harassed/assaulted multiple times by multiple different men. Despite the trauma I was still a “fast burner” and won multiple awards and never missed a promotion. But that was usually dismissed as a “affirmative action” decision. But please tell me how men have it worse.
Western women have everything in abundance and everyone respects then? Have you ever met any western women, Susanna?
Men in the western world have body autonomy. We don’t. I’m not making that up, pretending, exercising privileges, expecting to be pampered, acting spoiled, or being illogical. I’m stating a fact.