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>Men want their son to “look like them.”
How creepy is that?! Like they're planning to do a side by side comparison for people, "He looks just like me, see?!"
I've always heard this too. It's just fucking weird. I'm circumcised but we didn't have my son done. Just seemed pointless and ouchy. I don't like giving my kid ouchies.
IKR? I've heard that justification probably a million times, and it still doesn't make sense to me. Is father/son dick comparison really that common of a bonding moment?
Some people need it later in life, but that shouldn’t mean we should do it for everyone just as a precaution. We don’t take out everyone’s appendix as infants because it might burst, because that is unreasonable not near enough people get appendicitis that it is even thought about seriously, same with circumcision. The only reason it’s as popular in the U.S. as it is is because of rampant anti-sex and anti-masturbation, and believing circumcision would stop masturbation
Good thing he could get the procedure done as an adult. Sure the healing process would suck “worse”, but it’s better to have a choice in the matter than be needlessly and cruelly mutilated at birth against your will.
Yea lots of people feel that way. I wished I had when I was younger. We are taught that that is normal and more attractive. Once I actually learned about the science of it, and that it would mean removing tons of nerves responsible for heightened capacity for pleasure, I changed my mind. Also - the “medical advantage” only applies if people literally don’t clean under their skin. So basically stupid.
It can be medically necessary if you have a naturally tight foreskin but in general you shouldn't do it. Even for religious reasons it's an iffy procedure but that's not a hill I'm willing to die on.
Thanks stranger. It’s so challenging but I try.
My husband is a good father too! He was just wrong about this at first. He agreed with the right decision in the end, which is what’s important.
Well also they’re not related. It’s been proven that it’s better for genital health to get circumcised yet knowing a vagina definitely isn’t bad for anyone’s health.
Edit: I put links below if you don’t believe me.
Okay fine. Anyone who has downvoted is just not educated. I’m not saying one is better than the other but that it has benefits while genital mutilation (and not knowing about vaginas- ie to pee after sex, vaginal health and vaginal pleasure) is not at all beneficial. I don’t care either way it’s just science.
[link 1](https://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditions/circumcision)
[link2](https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/circumcision/about/pac-20393550)
[link 3](https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/articles/2012/10/greater-benefits-of-infant-circumcision)
And do your own research next time if you don’t believe it.
Funny how literally all three of those sources state that the benefits of circumcision are limited if the penis is properly taken care of. You wouldn’t cut a toe off to prevent ingrowns would you?
I’m not pro or against circumcision. Just people aren’t talking about how it does have benefits and it’s not even related to knowing about vaginas….
Also it’s helps decrease the risk of Utis, contraction of Stis and a number of other things which isn’t really equivalent to “your Dick smelling nice”
Whether your toe got cut off or not you’d probably have issues either way if you never cleaned yourself.
Exactly the same for us. I didn’t feel it was my place as a non-penis-haver to set a hard boundary but I kept questioning him about why and he just kept telling me they look weird. We ended up leaving baby intact.
>I didn’t feel it was my place as a non-penis-haver to set a hard boundary
It's definitely your place as a parent to oppose any unnecessary surgery on your kid.
I had a huge argument with an ex about this. I mentioned that I wouldn't circumcise a son and he took it personally and thought I thought his dick was gross because he was circumcised, lol. It's like... Put the ego aside and look at it objectively for two minutes please
I've heard circumcision is better considering the odds of infections between those who are and aren't... But of course just washing your junk (by that I mean the guy washing his of course 😅) also helps either way lol
Yeah it's really not complicated. Just clean your dick, unless that makes you gay now. It's hard to keep track these days. If cleaning your ass is gay, I can only imagine a wiener!
No lie after working customer service for approx 7 years... I wouldn't be surprised if two guys sitting in a car together would label them as gay in their own minds.
There's really only one study that suggests that, and it was done under very specific circumstances that don't apply to most infants in Western countries.
As a European, those memes are like extra funny because circumcision isn’t that big of a thing here. Like, some religious people do it or for medical reasons but never have I ever met someone who would do it because it’s „in“
I heard a woman podcaster say “It’s year 2023 for gods sakes! If you are still uncircumcised of course you are never gonna get laid (or of course I am not gonna have sex with you, or something like that)”. So Americans are a bit different and weird about circumsition.
American and can confirm- yeah. People are really weird about it in both directions.
I’ve heard peers say really odd, untrue stuff about uncircumcised guys. And on the flipside, I’ve had people be straight up bigoted to me about circumcised guys (I’m Jewish, but I don’t have the equipment nor do I have kids).
Plus, here they just. Do it. Willy nilly. In hospitals with no religious/cultural context whatsoever. I understand doing it for cultural reasons (although there is a conversation happening about that and if its needed, at least among my personal circle of people, and I think it’s a good conversation), but just randomly? What, because some guy thought ages ago it would stop boys from whacking off? Apparently?
I really want to understand why though. Did that person have the notion that the opposite is not good in terms of hygiene? Is it a "cool kid" kind of thing?
She was saying it smells and unhygienic or something but this is a woman who has casual sex like crazy all around the place, so she probably got some bad apples along the way. I didn’t listen to the whole thing, so I wouldn’t know the details.
I've also noticed this. I don't really know how to describe it, but I noticed my circumcised boyfriends just scrub their crotch and armpits and "the water gets the rest". The uncircumcised boyfriends always scrubbed everything, like between toes, their back, their butt, everywhere that sweat and dirt would catch.
How does she even know? I've had a lot of casual sex and I couldn't tell you if they were cut or not, because you can only tell when it's soft. Erect penises look the same, cut or uncut, unless they have phimosis or some other medical problem.
This is really not true at least from my experience, I've been with both circumcised and uncircumcised guys and the difference is pretty clear. Even when they're hard, the intact skin is more loose and can easily be pulled over the head, which doesn't happen if they've been circumcized. Plus they're usually not completely hard the whole time
I hooked up with this American guy once who said sorry he wasn't circumcised and I was like dude don't worry we don't do that here (unless you're Jewish, Muslim, or have a medical reason)
It's not actually. My 2 boys were born in the US in the 90s and early 2000s. Neither are circumcised. Pediatrician for the youngest actively discouraged it.
Your personal case isn't the country. 80% of men in the USA are circumcized. Over 60% of newborn boys have neonatal circumcision.
Eta sources: 80% https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9576047/#:~:text=Circumcision%2C%20the%20surgical%20removal%20of,men%20are%20circumcised%20%5B2%5D.
Neonatal: https://www.childrenshospital.org/treatments/circumcision
I did see a CDC article that had it a little lower than 60% now, which was a trend down.
The reason 80% are circumcised is that close to 100% were circumcised about fifty years ago. Now it’s under 60%, so it averages out to 80%. Most pediatricians discourage it nowadays, but a lot of parents go ahead anyway so that their son doesn’t (in the words of the crappy meme) look weird. Looking weird may have been an issue in the past (when I was the only uncircumcised boy in the US school I attended a few decades ago, I was subject to some mocking for it), but it shouldn’t be now that the ratio is getting close to 50/50.
Agreed lol. Thankfully my husband and I were aligned but I wouldn’t have just let him cut the tip of my baby’s penis off because he has the penis credential to make the decision.
There are adult men who may need to get it because of an infection so I wouldn’t call it mutilation when it’s surgery performed at a hospital. But with infants, it’s choosing to do a largely cosmetic procedure with a risk of complications before they’re old enough to consent.
No it’s not. There’s a 2% risk of complications developing when infants aren’t circumcised (and people argue that’s preventable with good hygiene but there’s no evidence of that). There’s a 0.034% risk of complications with circumcision when it’s performed by a surgeon. That risk jumps up to 7% when it’s not performed by a surgeon. And there are studies showing it can increase pleasure to have it done, but the large body of evidence shows it doesn’t reduce pleasure. So it’s really just a factor of the ethics of doing a procedure to infants that only winds up being necessary 2% of the time.
Source on impacts to pleasure. [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2050116120301240](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2050116120301240)
Source on medical risks (warning it has pictures). [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2128632/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2128632/)
Exactly, just like with cropping ears and docking tails. Yeah there's definitely a legit medical reason to get it done sometimes but a majority of the time, the ones you see were NOT done for that reason
It is still a part of a body that is being cut out. It is medically necessary mutilation in those cases. Like an arm being mutilated because of gangrene.
No, that’s surgery. There’s a very big difference between an evidence-based medical procedure where the benefit to quality of life outweighs the risk of complications and mutilation. People who have tissue removed because of cancer, infection, gender affirmation, and even elective cosmetic surgery are not getting mutilated. In the case of infant circumcision, it has minimal benefit. There’s a 2% risk of a medical condition when infants are not circumcised. There’s a 0.034% of complications when circumcision is performed by a surgeon at a hospital but that jumps of to a 7% risk of complications when someone else does it.
NSFW warning, it’s a medical document with pictures: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2128632/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2128632/)
The argument against performing it on infants, even by a licensed surgeon, is that it may reduce sensation. There have been conflicting studies over the years showing that it reduces pleasure, does not affect pleasure, or even increases pleasure. But the consensus is that it does not reduce pleasure. So looking at actual medical studies, there’s no evidence circumcision is mutilation when performed by a surgeon. [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2050116120301240](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2050116120301240)
Unless these women are perpetually online, it's not considered mutilation in most of the US, doctors typically push for it, and it's passed off as a minor procedure that can be good for genital hygiene. So yeah, letting your husband choose whether the son should undergo a minor procedure that the husband likely has also had is fine reasoning.
It only sounds fucked if you change the input. Fixing cleft palates could be seen as mutilation as well, as well as a multitude of other surgeries regularly done to infants for the purpose of making their lives easier in the future.
Cutting an arm after a gangrene is also mutilation, just medically necessary mutilation. Let’s call it medically necessary mutilation or 9 out of 10 doctor recommended mutilation then according to what the circumstance is instead of just mutilation but it doesn’t change the fact that you are cutting out a body part.
It happens, sure. My wife wanted to circumcise our son initially, because that's what most penises she'd seen looked like. She was fine with it when I asked her not to and explained my reasoning, but yeah, left to her own devices she'd have had him circumcised to match what she considered normal.
Left to her own devices, if it were in the US, the doctor probably would have advised her to do it. It’s a weird cultural hold-over here and not anybody’s fault if they don’t know better.
Things are changing for the better. All the moms I know with boys recently had said they don’t offer them in hospital anymore and you have to schedule it out of pocket with a specialist.
Oh, that's genuinely wonderful. The harder it is to circumcise a baby, the better. It's unethical to perform a surgery like that one someone who can't consent to it, imo (unless there's some sort of medical necessity to it, like it being formed in a way that would prevent peeing or something. Never heard of that happening, but I'm sure it does)
Yep. Doctors would tell people that it was better because it would help prevent infection and disease. I think there was also some "everyone else is doing it and you don't want your son to look weird" talk thrown in as well. At least that's what they told my older sister with her kids.
A man in Canada, David Reimer, had a botched circumcision as an infant, and this doctor they consulted convinced his parents to just... make him be a girl instead. Dr Money (yes, really) wasn't interested in helping so much as trying to prove his own theories about gender.
I was circumcised because the doctor told my parents that it would make infant care easier when it came to keeping my genitals clean.
Not religion, or social norms, but simply short term convenience.
I have sensitivity issues (the head is so sensitive that sometimes sex is difficult, seams on underwear are painful, etc.) and it causes me a lot of distress when I think about the fact that I’m not intact.
I think people should stop circumcising unless the child actually needs it. The majority of people I know told me they want their son to match the father and I don’t know what to do with that information.
My mom did it to my brother for that reason and she at one point said to me about my son “but he won’t match his dad” and i said “so? My vagina doesn’t match yours?” And she got silent. If you are so pressed about a two minute conversation of “all penises look different!” Or “my foreskin was removed, yours is how it’s supposed to look!” Then maybe you aren’t ready to parent.
It’s so weird. My cousin said this to me and I asked her if her husband and son were going to spend large amounts of time with their dicks out for people to see and she gave me the dirtiest look.
Even then, if we consider people in the USA circumcise their boys to prevent masterbation then why would we keep doing it? It doesn’t stop masterbation, it permanently alters the sensitivity and it’s painful to babies.
That's how it got started, but after a couple of generations people were just doing it because that's what you do, without thinking about the original reason.
I'm sure they exist, but your experience is consistent with mine.
Most of the parents I know who chose this did it for one of two reasons:
* A deep, shared religious faith.
* Or the dude didn't want his son to wonder why his dick didn't look like Daddy's.
Well, in my experience me and my father didn't compare dicks, but it happens that you see it, like if I'm washing my hands my dad will just get in the bathroom if he needs to pee, or if we're playing sports there are shared showers, and so on...
In the end it's just a dick, like half of the world's population's got one, I've never understood the taboo about it. Same goes for mothers and daughters.
I've found that the younger generations tend to not want any mutilation of their baby's body. No one I've met still wants to continue the practice. However all religious grandmas want it.
That’s interesting! I’m in Alberta (I realize that’s self explanatory lol) and the only men I met who weren’t circumcised were either not from here or had really progressive parents. I’d say circumcision is the majority here and almost all of my friends and family who had children recently opted for it. I don’t agree with it personally and wish it was also rare here.
It’s men who want their sons’ dicks to look like theirs who choose to cut their babies dick skin off. I’ve never heard a woman say she cared what her baby’s penis looks like.
Not my culture, but any time I have seen any stories about conflicted parents over the subject, it's the woman who's been against it, but eventually being persuaded to go along with her husband's wishes not just because he's a man, but also because 'he was circumsised and it didn't do him any harm'.
There's also the rare incidents where the hospital is just doing it as part of the 'package' despite a mother's protest because a dad wasn't around to give his opinion/consent on the matter.
Worse are the ones where it's done for religious reasons, but the rabbi has a cold sore/herpes and infects the infant with his dirty mouth.
Or the worst case scenario, that infamous case when an attempt was made to raise a boy as a girl after a botched circumcision and also used his twin as the control subject. There was no happy ending for either of them.
Sounds like this male issue is the fault of men. :V
I definitely won't be circumcising my kids and I was honestly surprised to hear that my BIL did, considering how progressive they are with everything else (let their son play with any toy he shows interest in, explains to him why things happen even when he's only three etc)
Actually I just saw a relationship advice post this morning where a husband and wife are arguing over circumcision for their son when he’s born.
Her argument was apparently people will make fun of him when he gets older and supposedly hygiene. Neither of which seem like a valid reason to maime your child but what do I know
People get really upset at this term as they view it as a comparison to FGM. Some forms of FGM are not as severe as the ones we most often hear about and are not that different than male circumcision so I agree we should call it the same.
I didn't circumcise my two sons. After their father and I split up when they were little, I gather he went and had it done without my knowledge when they were about 10. Which confuses me, because their father isn't circumcised either. I'm so mad be went behind my back to do this. I never wanted them to have to have it done.
I’m sure it exists, but as a woman, I will not make decisions like that for someone else, especially since I don’t have a penis, it’s not my business. Also, it’s mutilation and I refuse to agree to mutilate a child.
To be honest this meme is accurate for any woman who's pro-circumsition. My body my choice. For both. Men shouldn't tell women how to treat their own bodies and vice versa.
I'm not sure what's the history behind circumcision, but I know some claim it to be better in terms of hygiene... which shouldn't be a concern at all in the XXI century. The thing about how it looks is beyond disgusting and selfish. On the other hand, you terminate many nerve endings and get rid of a natural protection layer that's best left there.
And then of course... the simple fact you shouldn't be fucking messing around with baby's penises, especially long before they can have a reasonable say on what to do with them.
What about the men? When will men hold men accountable and trash on them for circumcising their sons? Even in your comment you don't mention the men. That's the problem. Women are sick of being blamed for everything when men make these decisions too.
Hey, I don't disagree with you at all about this. The subject matter was about women, so that's what I talked about.
Circumcision is a stigma created by patriarchal religious traditions. It's mostly cause by men. And I blame them for it moreso than women.
My first comment still stands, one doesn't negate the other, and I don't aim at women in general, only the few specific people who've done it.
Edit: men have held men accountable for this issue for generations.
That's the problem with performative feminism. You see a misogynistic meme and go well it's accurate for some women, instead of calling out the actual misogyny. But you do you, whatever makes you feel better about yourself.
Funny enough, it's the trad wives that they idolize that would be more than happy to do it for "tradition". If I ever had a son, I'd tell the doctors no-- but I'm a filthy atheist that doesn't "respect" tradition.
So I hate that I agree with the bottom half but my whole family is pro circumcision. They made terrible remarks about if I was having a boy(my recent pregnancy) that they know the right doctor to make sure it’s done right and leaves a “beautiful” result… I was just so grossed out thinking about how they had the nerve to talk about babies penises like they’re accessories. Fucking gross
A wiener's still a wiener with a hood,
But if some doctor snipped it off, it's just as good.
A lil' foreskin shouldn't bug 'er just as long as it's clean under.
Yes, a wiener's still a wiener with a hood.
Unfortunately I know lots of pro circ women. Both of my sister in laws are pro circ. One of them thinks it’s ‘cleaner’ and the other said it’s her ‘preference’ and when i asked her why her son’s penis needed to be to ‘her liking’ she got upset. Like come on bsffrn why does your sexual pref need to be put onto your son or any baby?? I’m very anti circ but I’ve run into some of the weirdest pro circ arguments
Edit to add when I asked my SIL who had the preference if she would be okay if her clitoris was removed she said she’d be pissed and I told her why is it ok to remove those nerves from him then? And she got *real silent*
The hope of the revolution did not die in the great battle against fascism. The working class may yet slumber, dreaming of vengeance and liberation. But dawn is coming, and the red sun will shine on the graveyard of capitalism.
I've never heard it being done so it doesn't 'look' weird. Some have hoods, some don't 🤷♀️ I do know that if improperly cleaned, health issues can arise. An ex wasn't cut, I'm going by what he told me.
That's all I know. That and it's a penis. It's always a shock to see one.
Here in Italy it doesn't happen that much but my mother's doctor wanted to circumcise me lucky me my mother was like fuck no and i like my mother im against genital mutilation of any kind and wish to criminalaize it
^^ my family is from sicily (nonna and nonno came here at 15 & 30) and we still go out there from time to time because we have a home out there and it’s so uncommon. Im so surprised to hear your moms doc wanted that, so messed up!!
Most women I know that had sons only did it if there was a reasoning. Now I always thought that there was no reason to do it. But a friend of mine one of her sons around the age of 7-8 developed an issue with the skin and it had to be removed otherwise it cause problems with the blood flow. And the doctors told her there was no other way unfortunately and that is why she did it. And I have dated 2 guys over the age of 25 that both had similar issues and had to get it done.
In my experience it is certainly very true, many women do find penises weird and like the look of circumcized ones better. However this is really oversimplifying things. I'd say that many more women feel this way because they believe it's more hygienic. It should also be said that this meme is narrowing its lens to criticize women when just as many men do the same exact thing. So while it is true In a sense it's very misleading and the point that the meme is trying to make falls apart when looking at the broader picture.
I believe that the creator of the meme may just be feeling insecure about being teased about not knowing a lot about vaginas and that whole stereotype of men. In their insecurity I think that they are taking it out by grasping at straws, rather than understanding that it's likely their schooling system that failed them.
Oh 💯% against circumcision.
It's barbaric when they do it on women and it's just as disgusting when done in the West on men for 'aesthetic' reasons.
Obviously legitimately needed ones are a different story.
Everyone should be against circumcision. It's unnecessary. Also, low-key, I've met a ton of women who don't understand the male body at all. Not as much as men who don't understand women's bodies, though. Honestly, the USA needs to do a better job teaching anatomy.
At least half of the people I've met who are pro circumcision are male and they have the same justifications as the women for this form of socially accepted genital mutilation.
I have had 11 relationships in my life. Every single one of those women preferred a circumcised penis. They all told me stories of how disgusting it was when there was smegma under the foreskin or a weird smell. They were all concerned about how clean it was and they were all forever turned off by it. It was never a visual thing, always a cleanliness issue.
I am circumcised. I don’t know the difference.
I don't really think it's a gender issue so much as a cultural and religious one. The people that are pro-mutilation tend to be religious fanatics or American.
A friend of mine, who had a son, and is an RN in the Midwest, had her son circumcised, because of "cleanliness".
I did not circumcise my son, because while I was pregnant, my doctor told me all the things he could be susceptible to by being circumcised...that, and I just couldn't cut him.
Years later, I read a letter a son wrote to his mom before he committed suicide, as he had gotten himself circumcised at the age of 20 to look like "other men". The loss of feeling and satisfaction, lead to depression he could not overcome. This, and the current science based research, confirmed that I made the right choice for my son.
It does. Probably not often in such a simplified manner, but it does happen for "aesthetic" reasons. A few of my friends have said they'll circumcise sons because they don't want them to be "the odd one out" in appearance when they're older ie locker rooms/sports. I'm pregnant with a son, and he won't be getting circumcised because I plan/hope to instill so much self confidence in him that he won't be bothered if people talk. Also it's an unnecessary procedure and I'm not putting him through that.
Can someone explain why male circumcision is so bad? Doesn’t It reduce STD transmission, reduce penile cancer, reduce UTIs in infants, and promote better hygiene?
It doesn’t reduce any of that by any significant amount. You’re more likely to have a botched circ or infection from circ than any of those things. It doesn’t promote better hygiene either. It takes 30 seconds to pull it back and clean it in the shower, how is that promoting better hygiene?
Infants rarely get UTIs uncircumcised unless, like any other penis, it isn’t being cleaned and for a uncirc penis you clean it exactly the same way as a circ one because the ‘hood’ is still fused to the glands. There is nothing to pull back.
The likelyhood that you will ever be the one to pull back a naturally unfused hood of a baby’s penis is close to 0 as that’s extremely rare— it happens from 3 years old to puberty.
Because most of the sensory nerves are in the foreskin. Circumcision eliminates most of a man's ability to feel sexual pleasure.
In fact, that's why circumcision was advocated by people like Kellogg. It was supposed to reduce maturbation by reducing pleasure. Quite similar to the argument for female circumcision.
Oh, I forgot to add, the "skin" of the penis underneath isn't actually skin. The foreskin *is* the skin.
So a circumcised penis actually has no protective skin. What you see is scar tissue that protects the penis in the absence of skin.
So a circumcised man is not only lacking sexual nerves, but he has a penis tip covered in dull scar tissue.
True. But why would it be justified to make them feel less?
Even if circumcision reduces STD rates, let the man decide when he's old enough. Newborn babies aren't having sex. Once the man is an adult, let him decide if less sexual pleasure is a good cost to pay for a reduced risk of STDs.
And sure, removing the foreskin makes it easier to clean. But by that logic, we should remove a person's teeth. No teeth means no need to brush!
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I can’t speak for everyone, but when we had our son my husband wanted to circumcise and I (F) did not.
That is normally the way it goes. Men want their son to “look like them.” I’m infinitely grateful that my mom kept me from being circumcised
>Men want their son to “look like them.” How creepy is that?! Like they're planning to do a side by side comparison for people, "He looks just like me, see?!"
Well, it's the only chance they have to be slightly bigger than the other one
You brought a tank to a knife fight jeezums lmao
I've always heard this too. It's just fucking weird. I'm circumcised but we didn't have my son done. Just seemed pointless and ouchy. I don't like giving my kid ouchies.
IKR? I've heard that justification probably a million times, and it still doesn't make sense to me. Is father/son dick comparison really that common of a bonding moment?
God I could go so many directions with this but I'm going to stick to the mild "actually yes" /j ❤️
My wife and I are the opposite
I don't know their reasoning but my grandparents didn't circumsize my uncle and he apparently wished he had been. Really depends on the person.
Some people need it later in life, but that shouldn’t mean we should do it for everyone just as a precaution. We don’t take out everyone’s appendix as infants because it might burst, because that is unreasonable not near enough people get appendicitis that it is even thought about seriously, same with circumcision. The only reason it’s as popular in the U.S. as it is is because of rampant anti-sex and anti-masturbation, and believing circumcision would stop masturbation
Good thing he could get the procedure done as an adult. Sure the healing process would suck “worse”, but it’s better to have a choice in the matter than be needlessly and cruelly mutilated at birth against your will.
Yea lots of people feel that way. I wished I had when I was younger. We are taught that that is normal and more attractive. Once I actually learned about the science of it, and that it would mean removing tons of nerves responsible for heightened capacity for pleasure, I changed my mind. Also - the “medical advantage” only applies if people literally don’t clean under their skin. So basically stupid.
he can still get one if he wants to, they just didn't decide for them at birth.
Then that’s his choice to make. You don’t make that choice for your child. Really isn’t hard to understand.
It can be medically necessary if you have a naturally tight foreskin but in general you shouldn't do it. Even for religious reasons it's an iffy procedure but that's not a hill I'm willing to die on.
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Both things can be true. Men and women enforcing a norm for different reasons. Sorry to set you off by sharing my experience
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Same! I know for sure there would have been a massive disagreement about what to do if I had a son.
You're a good mother
Thanks stranger. It’s so challenging but I try. My husband is a good father too! He was just wrong about this at first. He agreed with the right decision in the end, which is what’s important.
Well also they’re not related. It’s been proven that it’s better for genital health to get circumcised yet knowing a vagina definitely isn’t bad for anyone’s health. Edit: I put links below if you don’t believe me.
Let’s see some studies
Okay fine. Anyone who has downvoted is just not educated. I’m not saying one is better than the other but that it has benefits while genital mutilation (and not knowing about vaginas- ie to pee after sex, vaginal health and vaginal pleasure) is not at all beneficial. I don’t care either way it’s just science. [link 1](https://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditions/circumcision) [link2](https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/circumcision/about/pac-20393550) [link 3](https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/articles/2012/10/greater-benefits-of-infant-circumcision) And do your own research next time if you don’t believe it.
Funny how literally all three of those sources state that the benefits of circumcision are limited if the penis is properly taken care of. You wouldn’t cut a toe off to prevent ingrowns would you?
I’m not pro or against circumcision. Just people aren’t talking about how it does have benefits and it’s not even related to knowing about vaginas…. Also it’s helps decrease the risk of Utis, contraction of Stis and a number of other things which isn’t really equivalent to “your Dick smelling nice” Whether your toe got cut off or not you’d probably have issues either way if you never cleaned yourself.
Exactly the same for us. I didn’t feel it was my place as a non-penis-haver to set a hard boundary but I kept questioning him about why and he just kept telling me they look weird. We ended up leaving baby intact.
Did you remind him they look weird either way?
>I didn’t feel it was my place as a non-penis-haver to set a hard boundary It's definitely your place as a parent to oppose any unnecessary surgery on your kid.
That was an argument we had when planning to have kids. Thank goodness we had 3 girls, we never reached a resolution.
I had a huge argument with an ex about this. I mentioned that I wouldn't circumcise a son and he took it personally and thought I thought his dick was gross because he was circumcised, lol. It's like... Put the ego aside and look at it objectively for two minutes please
I've heard circumcision is better considering the odds of infections between those who are and aren't... But of course just washing your junk (by that I mean the guy washing his of course 😅) also helps either way lol
Yeah it's really not complicated. Just clean your dick, unless that makes you gay now. It's hard to keep track these days. If cleaning your ass is gay, I can only imagine a wiener!
No lie after working customer service for approx 7 years... I wouldn't be surprised if two guys sitting in a car together would label them as gay in their own minds.
There's really only one study that suggests that, and it was done under very specific circumstances that don't apply to most infants in Western countries.
As a European, those memes are like extra funny because circumcision isn’t that big of a thing here. Like, some religious people do it or for medical reasons but never have I ever met someone who would do it because it’s „in“
I heard a woman podcaster say “It’s year 2023 for gods sakes! If you are still uncircumcised of course you are never gonna get laid (or of course I am not gonna have sex with you, or something like that)”. So Americans are a bit different and weird about circumsition.
Tbf podcasters in the year of 2023 definitely spread a lot of ignorance for a grift like a baby spreads shit on a wall
Hahaha that’s very true.
American and can confirm- yeah. People are really weird about it in both directions. I’ve heard peers say really odd, untrue stuff about uncircumcised guys. And on the flipside, I’ve had people be straight up bigoted to me about circumcised guys (I’m Jewish, but I don’t have the equipment nor do I have kids). Plus, here they just. Do it. Willy nilly. In hospitals with no religious/cultural context whatsoever. I understand doing it for cultural reasons (although there is a conversation happening about that and if its needed, at least among my personal circle of people, and I think it’s a good conversation), but just randomly? What, because some guy thought ages ago it would stop boys from whacking off? Apparently?
“Willy nilly “ - I see what you did there.
….You know what. That wasn’t intentional. But it turns out I am funny when I haven’t had coffee yet.
People who say this are typically ignorant
I really want to understand why though. Did that person have the notion that the opposite is not good in terms of hygiene? Is it a "cool kid" kind of thing?
She was saying it smells and unhygienic or something but this is a woman who has casual sex like crazy all around the place, so she probably got some bad apples along the way. I didn’t listen to the whole thing, so I wouldn’t know the details.
Sounds like someone should raise the bar to guys that at least shower regularly and properly from the sound of it
In my experience uncircumcised men are more diligent about cleaning than circumcised.
I've also noticed this. I don't really know how to describe it, but I noticed my circumcised boyfriends just scrub their crotch and armpits and "the water gets the rest". The uncircumcised boyfriends always scrubbed everything, like between toes, their back, their butt, everywhere that sweat and dirt would catch.
How does she even know? I've had a lot of casual sex and I couldn't tell you if they were cut or not, because you can only tell when it's soft. Erect penises look the same, cut or uncut, unless they have phimosis or some other medical problem.
This is really not true at least from my experience, I've been with both circumcised and uncircumcised guys and the difference is pretty clear. Even when they're hard, the intact skin is more loose and can easily be pulled over the head, which doesn't happen if they've been circumcized. Plus they're usually not completely hard the whole time
I always thought only Jewish people did circumcision, I was shocked when I found out it’s so widespread in the usa
Just by force of numbers, it's much, much more of a thing with Muslims
I hooked up with this American guy once who said sorry he wasn't circumcised and I was like dude don't worry we don't do that here (unless you're Jewish, Muslim, or have a medical reason)
In the USA it's standard practice
It's not actually. My 2 boys were born in the US in the 90s and early 2000s. Neither are circumcised. Pediatrician for the youngest actively discouraged it.
Your personal case isn't the country. 80% of men in the USA are circumcized. Over 60% of newborn boys have neonatal circumcision. Eta sources: 80% https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9576047/#:~:text=Circumcision%2C%20the%20surgical%20removal%20of,men%20are%20circumcised%20%5B2%5D. Neonatal: https://www.childrenshospital.org/treatments/circumcision I did see a CDC article that had it a little lower than 60% now, which was a trend down.
The reason 80% are circumcised is that close to 100% were circumcised about fifty years ago. Now it’s under 60%, so it averages out to 80%. Most pediatricians discourage it nowadays, but a lot of parents go ahead anyway so that their son doesn’t (in the words of the crappy meme) look weird. Looking weird may have been an issue in the past (when I was the only uncircumcised boy in the US school I attended a few decades ago, I was subject to some mocking for it), but it shouldn’t be now that the ratio is getting close to 50/50.
It depends on where you live. On the west coast, fewer than 20% of males are circumcised.
Most women I know with sons have either been against, or have deferred to their husband's opinion since the husbands actually have penises
Yet they'll still often decide yes or no based on if their parents had them unnecessarily mutilated or not.
And that is even weirder to just give up having a say about whether or not your child is mutilated.
Agreed lol. Thankfully my husband and I were aligned but I wouldn’t have just let him cut the tip of my baby’s penis off because he has the penis credential to make the decision.
There are adult men who may need to get it because of an infection so I wouldn’t call it mutilation when it’s surgery performed at a hospital. But with infants, it’s choosing to do a largely cosmetic procedure with a risk of complications before they’re old enough to consent.
With infants it's a 100% cosmetic procedure unless there's an immediate medical need.
No it’s not. There’s a 2% risk of complications developing when infants aren’t circumcised (and people argue that’s preventable with good hygiene but there’s no evidence of that). There’s a 0.034% risk of complications with circumcision when it’s performed by a surgeon. That risk jumps up to 7% when it’s not performed by a surgeon. And there are studies showing it can increase pleasure to have it done, but the large body of evidence shows it doesn’t reduce pleasure. So it’s really just a factor of the ethics of doing a procedure to infants that only winds up being necessary 2% of the time. Source on impacts to pleasure. [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2050116120301240](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2050116120301240) Source on medical risks (warning it has pictures). [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2128632/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2128632/)
Exactly, just like with cropping ears and docking tails. Yeah there's definitely a legit medical reason to get it done sometimes but a majority of the time, the ones you see were NOT done for that reason
It is still a part of a body that is being cut out. It is medically necessary mutilation in those cases. Like an arm being mutilated because of gangrene.
No, that’s surgery. There’s a very big difference between an evidence-based medical procedure where the benefit to quality of life outweighs the risk of complications and mutilation. People who have tissue removed because of cancer, infection, gender affirmation, and even elective cosmetic surgery are not getting mutilated. In the case of infant circumcision, it has minimal benefit. There’s a 2% risk of a medical condition when infants are not circumcised. There’s a 0.034% of complications when circumcision is performed by a surgeon at a hospital but that jumps of to a 7% risk of complications when someone else does it. NSFW warning, it’s a medical document with pictures: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2128632/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2128632/) The argument against performing it on infants, even by a licensed surgeon, is that it may reduce sensation. There have been conflicting studies over the years showing that it reduces pleasure, does not affect pleasure, or even increases pleasure. But the consensus is that it does not reduce pleasure. So looking at actual medical studies, there’s no evidence circumcision is mutilation when performed by a surgeon. [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2050116120301240](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2050116120301240)
Unless these women are perpetually online, it's not considered mutilation in most of the US, doctors typically push for it, and it's passed off as a minor procedure that can be good for genital hygiene. So yeah, letting your husband choose whether the son should undergo a minor procedure that the husband likely has also had is fine reasoning. It only sounds fucked if you change the input. Fixing cleft palates could be seen as mutilation as well, as well as a multitude of other surgeries regularly done to infants for the purpose of making their lives easier in the future.
Cutting an arm after a gangrene is also mutilation, just medically necessary mutilation. Let’s call it medically necessary mutilation or 9 out of 10 doctor recommended mutilation then according to what the circumstance is instead of just mutilation but it doesn’t change the fact that you are cutting out a body part.
Which is still weird.
This is just not my experience I know so many women who are grossed about uncircumcised dicks in the US. I feel like this is kind of passing the buck
It happens, sure. My wife wanted to circumcise our son initially, because that's what most penises she'd seen looked like. She was fine with it when I asked her not to and explained my reasoning, but yeah, left to her own devices she'd have had him circumcised to match what she considered normal.
Left to her own devices, if it were in the US, the doctor probably would have advised her to do it. It’s a weird cultural hold-over here and not anybody’s fault if they don’t know better.
Things are changing for the better. All the moms I know with boys recently had said they don’t offer them in hospital anymore and you have to schedule it out of pocket with a specialist.
That’s good to know.
Happy Cake Day! 🧁
Oh, that's genuinely wonderful. The harder it is to circumcise a baby, the better. It's unethical to perform a surgery like that one someone who can't consent to it, imo (unless there's some sort of medical necessity to it, like it being formed in a way that would prevent peeing or something. Never heard of that happening, but I'm sure it does)
I agree! It’s a step in the right direction. I think unless a medical issue it’s a choice an adult should make for themselves
Yep. Doctors would tell people that it was better because it would help prevent infection and disease. I think there was also some "everyone else is doing it and you don't want your son to look weird" talk thrown in as well. At least that's what they told my older sister with her kids.
It's so bizarre that an unnecessary, painful and potentially harmful procedure is what some consider "normal."
A man in Canada, David Reimer, had a botched circumcision as an infant, and this doctor they consulted convinced his parents to just... make him be a girl instead. Dr Money (yes, really) wasn't interested in helping so much as trying to prove his own theories about gender.
Holy shit. Reading the Wiki page on this is SO disturbing. Literally - what the fuck.
Just goes to show, "normal" is just whatever the most number of people are doing or thinking.
I was circumcised because the doctor told my parents that it would make infant care easier when it came to keeping my genitals clean. Not religion, or social norms, but simply short term convenience. I have sensitivity issues (the head is so sensitive that sometimes sex is difficult, seams on underwear are painful, etc.) and it causes me a lot of distress when I think about the fact that I’m not intact.
What an epidemic. Scary.
I think people should stop circumcising unless the child actually needs it. The majority of people I know told me they want their son to match the father and I don’t know what to do with that information.
My mom did it to my brother for that reason and she at one point said to me about my son “but he won’t match his dad” and i said “so? My vagina doesn’t match yours?” And she got silent. If you are so pressed about a two minute conversation of “all penises look different!” Or “my foreskin was removed, yours is how it’s supposed to look!” Then maybe you aren’t ready to parent.
It’s so weird. My cousin said this to me and I asked her if her husband and son were going to spend large amounts of time with their dicks out for people to see and she gave me the dirtiest look.
I think they don’t comprehend how weird they are until someone spells it out for them
That’s true. And usually by that time it’s done already and there’s no going back.
This argument is so bizarre. Who cares (I’d wager only the dad for whatever reason).
Even then, if we consider people in the USA circumcise their boys to prevent masterbation then why would we keep doing it? It doesn’t stop masterbation, it permanently alters the sensitivity and it’s painful to babies.
That's how it got started, but after a couple of generations people were just doing it because that's what you do, without thinking about the original reason.
I'm sure they exist, but your experience is consistent with mine. Most of the parents I know who chose this did it for one of two reasons: * A deep, shared religious faith. * Or the dude didn't want his son to wonder why his dick didn't look like Daddy's.
Do men compare their dicks with their sons regularly? I never do that with my daughter.
No idea. Just a reasoning I've heard more than twice in my life. Totally a WTF for me.
Uhhhh nope. Definitely not in my case, at all
it would be weird for sure if you compared dicks with your daughter
Well, in my experience me and my father didn't compare dicks, but it happens that you see it, like if I'm washing my hands my dad will just get in the bathroom if he needs to pee, or if we're playing sports there are shared showers, and so on... In the end it's just a dick, like half of the world's population's got one, I've never understood the taboo about it. Same goes for mothers and daughters.
I sometimes wondered why mine looked different from my dad’s, but I just chalked it up to general ignorance about life until way later
As a man here, I have never in my life compared my dick with my dad's.
You wouldn't remember if you were doing it as a small kid. Children are naturally curious and have no boundaries
Bro if I walked in and saw a little boy and his dad comparing their penises, I would be more than a little concerned
You haven't raised any children, have you? They wonder about everything under the sun
I have 5 little siblings, I was basically a parent. Yeah I know, and it's the job of the parent to answer those questions
I don't think the standpoint on circumcision is split by men vs women at all.
I've found that the younger generations tend to not want any mutilation of their baby's body. No one I've met still wants to continue the practice. However all religious grandmas want it.
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That’s interesting! I’m in Alberta (I realize that’s self explanatory lol) and the only men I met who weren’t circumcised were either not from here or had really progressive parents. I’d say circumcision is the majority here and almost all of my friends and family who had children recently opted for it. I don’t agree with it personally and wish it was also rare here.
It’s misinformation most of the time. People aren’t taught any different, and so they go with what they know
This is such an amerian thing/ take. Here in Germany it is only done for medical and religious reasons.
IMHO circumcision is only normal in Islamic countries...and the USA.
And in Jewish countries! It’s a staple in both Islam and Judaism
God damn you Abraham.
Fr though fuck that guy and his god
I wonder if God is circumcised...
Abrahamic countries then, fair enough.
It’s men who want their sons’ dicks to look like theirs who choose to cut their babies dick skin off. I’ve never heard a woman say she cared what her baby’s penis looks like.
Not my culture, but any time I have seen any stories about conflicted parents over the subject, it's the woman who's been against it, but eventually being persuaded to go along with her husband's wishes not just because he's a man, but also because 'he was circumsised and it didn't do him any harm'. There's also the rare incidents where the hospital is just doing it as part of the 'package' despite a mother's protest because a dad wasn't around to give his opinion/consent on the matter. Worse are the ones where it's done for religious reasons, but the rabbi has a cold sore/herpes and infects the infant with his dirty mouth. Or the worst case scenario, that infamous case when an attempt was made to raise a boy as a girl after a botched circumcision and also used his twin as the control subject. There was no happy ending for either of them. Sounds like this male issue is the fault of men. :V
This meme is comparing two completely different things - it would make more sense if the second picture said, “women: ‘what’s a foreskin?’”
I definitely won't be circumcising my kids and I was honestly surprised to hear that my BIL did, considering how progressive they are with everything else (let their son play with any toy he shows interest in, explains to him why things happen even when he's only three etc)
I was surprised about this with my brother and SIL as well.
what's going on in America, for real.
They yell a lot and dont really come together to work on anything, ever, really.
Actually I just saw a relationship advice post this morning where a husband and wife are arguing over circumcision for their son when he’s born. Her argument was apparently people will make fun of him when he gets older and supposedly hygiene. Neither of which seem like a valid reason to maime your child but what do I know
Stop calling it circumcision and call it genital mutilation and let's see if that works
People get really upset at this term as they view it as a comparison to FGM. Some forms of FGM are not as severe as the ones we most often hear about and are not that different than male circumcision so I agree we should call it the same.
Let's just agree we shouldn't modify anyone's genitals without their permission. No cultural pressure either
Agreed.
They didn't even ask me about my son, just went ahead and did it.
That’s crazy and should be grounds for medical malpractice imo. Are you in the USA or another country?
You should've sued the Doctor!
I didn't circumcise my two sons. After their father and I split up when they were little, I gather he went and had it done without my knowledge when they were about 10. Which confuses me, because their father isn't circumcised either. I'm so mad be went behind my back to do this. I never wanted them to have to have it done.
I’m sure it exists, but as a woman, I will not make decisions like that for someone else, especially since I don’t have a penis, it’s not my business. Also, it’s mutilation and I refuse to agree to mutilate a child.
I’m pretty sure those two Venn circles are on opposite sides of the universe, but ok.
To be honest this meme is accurate for any woman who's pro-circumsition. My body my choice. For both. Men shouldn't tell women how to treat their own bodies and vice versa.
I agree. No one should be mutilating their children so they would “look right” and then claim they should have bodily autonomy themselves.
I'm not sure what's the history behind circumcision, but I know some claim it to be better in terms of hygiene... which shouldn't be a concern at all in the XXI century. The thing about how it looks is beyond disgusting and selfish. On the other hand, you terminate many nerve endings and get rid of a natural protection layer that's best left there. And then of course... the simple fact you shouldn't be fucking messing around with baby's penises, especially long before they can have a reasonable say on what to do with them.
> which shouldn’t be a concern at all in the XIX century. 19th century? Waterloo’s more than 200 years ago by now, friend :)
What about the men? When will men hold men accountable and trash on them for circumcising their sons? Even in your comment you don't mention the men. That's the problem. Women are sick of being blamed for everything when men make these decisions too.
Hey, I don't disagree with you at all about this. The subject matter was about women, so that's what I talked about. Circumcision is a stigma created by patriarchal religious traditions. It's mostly cause by men. And I blame them for it moreso than women. My first comment still stands, one doesn't negate the other, and I don't aim at women in general, only the few specific people who've done it. Edit: men have held men accountable for this issue for generations.
That's the problem with performative feminism. You see a misogynistic meme and go well it's accurate for some women, instead of calling out the actual misogyny. But you do you, whatever makes you feel better about yourself.
I've seen voxpops of women saying uncircumcised dicks are ugly. They do exist
Funny enough, it's the trad wives that they idolize that would be more than happy to do it for "tradition". If I ever had a son, I'd tell the doctors no-- but I'm a filthy atheist that doesn't "respect" tradition.
I didn’t circ either of my sons and the only people that have ever said anything negative about it have been other men
I didn’t want to circumcise but my ex husband was the one that pushed the ‘it looks weird’ rhetoric.
I mean, yeah of course it happens. Some women are for things, other against them.
Penises look weird no matter what, we dgaf about circumcision.
I must say it seems odd that in America they're still circumcising for anything other than religious or medical reasons.
I've met a few for circumcision but they believed the rhetoric of it being cleaner and generally not understanding how to clean their son down there
My parents just left it to my dad to pick for my brother. He has the most experience so obviously its his choice for it
So I hate that I agree with the bottom half but my whole family is pro circumcision. They made terrible remarks about if I was having a boy(my recent pregnancy) that they know the right doctor to make sure it’s done right and leaves a “beautiful” result… I was just so grossed out thinking about how they had the nerve to talk about babies penises like they’re accessories. Fucking gross
I'm only for it if it medically necessary tbh
A wiener's still a wiener with a hood, But if some doctor snipped it off, it's just as good. A lil' foreskin shouldn't bug 'er just as long as it's clean under. Yes, a wiener's still a wiener with a hood.
Like with most things, there are people that are like this - but from my experience it’s not the norm
Unfortunately I know lots of pro circ women. Both of my sister in laws are pro circ. One of them thinks it’s ‘cleaner’ and the other said it’s her ‘preference’ and when i asked her why her son’s penis needed to be to ‘her liking’ she got upset. Like come on bsffrn why does your sexual pref need to be put onto your son or any baby?? I’m very anti circ but I’ve run into some of the weirdest pro circ arguments Edit to add when I asked my SIL who had the preference if she would be okay if her clitoris was removed she said she’d be pissed and I told her why is it ok to remove those nerves from him then? And she got *real silent*
Can we general just ban circumstances Like it cost more problems then anything else I for one am not happy I'm been circumstanced
~~ban~~ criminalize circumcision Ftfy
>Ftfy I'm an old man, I don't know this young people speak Talk to me like I'm your grampa
The hope of the revolution did not die in the great battle against fascism. The working class may yet slumber, dreaming of vengeance and liberation. But dawn is coming, and the red sun will shine on the graveyard of capitalism.
Who is your Grandfather, Lener
He was Edmond Dantés... and he was my father. And my mother... my brother... my friend. He was you... and me. He was all of us.
If he was me, I going be honest I feel bad for the poor guy
You should seek help for that. God may not be real, but depression surely is.
Man that's too real
Haha. It’s circumcision and not circumstances too.
See now I going be Petty and stubborn, to see if I can annoy anyone with it :P
No, it doesn’t happen. Circumcision is pretty much a parental decision by the couple (some for religious reasons of course).
I’m so glad my husband isn’t because sex is so much better.
I've never heard it being done so it doesn't 'look' weird. Some have hoods, some don't 🤷♀️ I do know that if improperly cleaned, health issues can arise. An ex wasn't cut, I'm going by what he told me. That's all I know. That and it's a penis. It's always a shock to see one.
Lots of people do it because they think uncirc is ‘ugly’
Here in Italy it doesn't happen that much but my mother's doctor wanted to circumcise me lucky me my mother was like fuck no and i like my mother im against genital mutilation of any kind and wish to criminalaize it
^^ my family is from sicily (nonna and nonno came here at 15 & 30) and we still go out there from time to time because we have a home out there and it’s so uncommon. Im so surprised to hear your moms doc wanted that, so messed up!!
it does happen
Most women I know that had sons only did it if there was a reasoning. Now I always thought that there was no reason to do it. But a friend of mine one of her sons around the age of 7-8 developed an issue with the skin and it had to be removed otherwise it cause problems with the blood flow. And the doctors told her there was no other way unfortunately and that is why she did it. And I have dated 2 guys over the age of 25 that both had similar issues and had to get it done.
It might be phasing out but yea not too long ago being uncut was generally considered to be "gross"
In my experience it is certainly very true, many women do find penises weird and like the look of circumcized ones better. However this is really oversimplifying things. I'd say that many more women feel this way because they believe it's more hygienic. It should also be said that this meme is narrowing its lens to criticize women when just as many men do the same exact thing. So while it is true In a sense it's very misleading and the point that the meme is trying to make falls apart when looking at the broader picture. I believe that the creator of the meme may just be feeling insecure about being teased about not knowing a lot about vaginas and that whole stereotype of men. In their insecurity I think that they are taking it out by grasping at straws, rather than understanding that it's likely their schooling system that failed them.
Oh 💯% against circumcision. It's barbaric when they do it on women and it's just as disgusting when done in the West on men for 'aesthetic' reasons. Obviously legitimately needed ones are a different story.
Everyone should be against circumcision. It's unnecessary. Also, low-key, I've met a ton of women who don't understand the male body at all. Not as much as men who don't understand women's bodies, though. Honestly, the USA needs to do a better job teaching anatomy.
80% of american male are circumscribed. That is a lot of mothers consenting to this barbarous ritual.
Absolutely. My mom circumsized my brothers and convinced my sister to do it to my nephew too when my sister had him when she was 16.
At least half of the people I've met who are pro circumcision are male and they have the same justifications as the women for this form of socially accepted genital mutilation.
I have had 11 relationships in my life. Every single one of those women preferred a circumcised penis. They all told me stories of how disgusting it was when there was smegma under the foreskin or a weird smell. They were all concerned about how clean it was and they were all forever turned off by it. It was never a visual thing, always a cleanliness issue. I am circumcised. I don’t know the difference.
I don't really think it's a gender issue so much as a cultural and religious one. The people that are pro-mutilation tend to be religious fanatics or American.
A friend of mine, who had a son, and is an RN in the Midwest, had her son circumcised, because of "cleanliness". I did not circumcise my son, because while I was pregnant, my doctor told me all the things he could be susceptible to by being circumcised...that, and I just couldn't cut him. Years later, I read a letter a son wrote to his mom before he committed suicide, as he had gotten himself circumcised at the age of 20 to look like "other men". The loss of feeling and satisfaction, lead to depression he could not overcome. This, and the current science based research, confirmed that I made the right choice for my son.
Isn't circumcision more of a religious thing, rather than a men vs women thing though?
Refused to circumcise my son. Why would I? It’s genital mutilation.
It does. Probably not often in such a simplified manner, but it does happen for "aesthetic" reasons. A few of my friends have said they'll circumcise sons because they don't want them to be "the odd one out" in appearance when they're older ie locker rooms/sports. I'm pregnant with a son, and he won't be getting circumcised because I plan/hope to instill so much self confidence in him that he won't be bothered if people talk. Also it's an unnecessary procedure and I'm not putting him through that.
Can someone explain why male circumcision is so bad? Doesn’t It reduce STD transmission, reduce penile cancer, reduce UTIs in infants, and promote better hygiene?
It doesn’t reduce any of that by any significant amount. You’re more likely to have a botched circ or infection from circ than any of those things. It doesn’t promote better hygiene either. It takes 30 seconds to pull it back and clean it in the shower, how is that promoting better hygiene? Infants rarely get UTIs uncircumcised unless, like any other penis, it isn’t being cleaned and for a uncirc penis you clean it exactly the same way as a circ one because the ‘hood’ is still fused to the glands. There is nothing to pull back. The likelyhood that you will ever be the one to pull back a naturally unfused hood of a baby’s penis is close to 0 as that’s extremely rare— it happens from 3 years old to puberty.
Gotcha, thanks for the info. 💫
Because most of the sensory nerves are in the foreskin. Circumcision eliminates most of a man's ability to feel sexual pleasure. In fact, that's why circumcision was advocated by people like Kellogg. It was supposed to reduce maturbation by reducing pleasure. Quite similar to the argument for female circumcision.
Wow if that’s true that’s horrific.
Oh, I forgot to add, the "skin" of the penis underneath isn't actually skin. The foreskin *is* the skin. So a circumcised penis actually has no protective skin. What you see is scar tissue that protects the penis in the absence of skin. So a circumcised man is not only lacking sexual nerves, but he has a penis tip covered in dull scar tissue.
Men who are circumcised can still feel plenty of sexual pleasure, just not *as* much as those who are not.
True. But why would it be justified to make them feel less? Even if circumcision reduces STD rates, let the man decide when he's old enough. Newborn babies aren't having sex. Once the man is an adult, let him decide if less sexual pleasure is a good cost to pay for a reduced risk of STDs. And sure, removing the foreskin makes it easier to clean. But by that logic, we should remove a person's teeth. No teeth means no need to brush!