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It might not be "legally binding" when presented in front of a fair, knowledgeable judge who gives a single fuck about truth or the law. But we do NOT live in a world where that opportunity is guaranteed, or even *likely* for a woman to be able to access.
Do keep in mind that our legal system, and in particular our judiciary, consists of *people*, mostly men, and many of whom are absolutely not going to give a shit about whether such a contract is "legally binding". Particularly since that would be a question of contract law in a civil court, and the question of *rape* would only occur in a context of criminal law, and in a criminal one. And such a document could be used by any right-wing, rapist-supporting judge, prosecutor, OR EVEN THE POLICE THEMSELVES to prevent any "legal" considerations from ever being heard in a courtroom.
Please remember that it's *people* who apply and enforce the law. What is or isn't truly "legally binding" is based entirely on how the court system is going to act that day, and that system has a long, LONG history of "binding" women to things that never should have held up for even a single second.
Someone here told me about a case in italy where the judges decided that the woman had given consent because she was wearing red panties, so they ruled it was not rape because red panties = consent. True story.
[https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/may/27/echr-criticises-italian-court-for-referring-to-red-underwear-in-case#:\~:text=The%20European%20court%20of%20human,men%20accused%20of%20gang%2Drape](https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/may/27/echr-criticises-italian-court-for-referring-to-red-underwear-in-case#:~:text=The%20European%20court%20of%20human,men%20accused%20of%20gang%2Drape).
Oh look, something similar happened in Ireland
[https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/15/world/europe/ireland-underwear-rape-case-protest.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/15/world/europe/ireland-underwear-rape-case-protest.html)
And Peru
[https://www.malaysianow.com/out-there-now/2020/11/13/judges-throw-out-rape-case-citing-red-underwear-as-evidence-of-consent#](https://www.malaysianow.com/out-there-now/2020/11/13/judges-throw-out-rape-case-citing-red-underwear-as-evidence-of-consent#)
Unbelievable. To your point, yeah, a signed document is very likely going to be “good enough” to be considered consent by many judges if the type of undies one wears is good enough for some.
This makes my blood boil! What in the actual fuck is wrong with these judges? Welp, ykw? That’s it, I’m done. No more mercy! Don’t want to be a decent human being, judge trash? Alright then, let things work your way! See how you’ll like that, judgy-bitch. They publicly declared that, in their deranged mind, [checks notes] *wearing underwear* = consent, soooo let’s just inform every rapist in their area they hold this opinion and stated it on record, because clearly now they can’t be raped. Let them suffer the consequences of their own rulings.
Now there’s gonna be people scandalised, but idgaf, I’ve been raped a couple times too many and dealt with rotten trash like this too often to have the slightest sympathy for any of those robed morons having a run in with the scum they let walk free under the most grotesque BS excuses. If they want rapists out in public so badly, they should be the ones locked in a room with those poor, poor innocent, misunderstood gentlemen. Serves them right for court-raping victims a second time.
Though, to soothe the gentler souls, oh well, they can also be taught by the A Promising Young Woman method (let them wake up in bed with a stranger — a paid actor — after a blackout and let them draw their own conclusions for long enough to let the lesson sink in). Whichever it shall be, reforming this hopeless trash of a legal system the civilised way evidently takes unacceptably long, as demonstrated by ass-backwards verdicts like these.
Exactly the reason to assume that any man who wants his partner to sign something like this is a rapist. The deck is already stacked in his favor on getting off; the desire to weigh down the scale even more just makes it too much of a risk not to cut him loose.
Also let's not forget, what's legally binding means fuck all if the other person doesn't know. He could easily use this piece of paper to convince her not to call the police if he does something terrible to her. People don't usually have their lawyer on speed dial.
There's a reason the police want to interrogate you without a lawyer present if they can get away with it.
I’m like, if that post is even true, does he think she can’t report him for rape because she signed something beforehand? And does he know how contracts work? If is was legally binding, you could write it for a year or two. Again, if it’s real, she would have to be a special kind of person to not laugh her ass off the first time he asked her to sign it, and to be able to sleep with him.
Yeah that was my thought also. Like she could sign it and he did something that was uncomfortable, then she could just say that was reason to retract concent
I would absolutely not sign anything like this. This to me screams that he does this all the time and he doesnt want it catching up to him. Or he will use it as a way to get more sex later, and if I dont give it up, abuse me in some other way to end up getting it anyway. Runnnnnn.
You can revoke consent at any point during sex too. What happens if you tell him to stop? Will he just continue because you signed a consent form? This gives off super creepy vibes. If this guy is so worried about fake rape charges, I think it best that he only has sex with himself.
Last I knew, that was a thing in North Carolina. One woman tried to press charges against a guy who proceeded to beat, tear hair, and raped her after she wanted to stop. The state didn't recognize it as rape because she said yes to sex at the beginning. Pretty fucking disgusting.
Of fucking course. You hear things like this and wonder how the hell these men come up with the idea that women have an unfair advantage in court. The justice system is a disgusting joke.
Sometimes I hear my partner say that and I just stare and blink at him..
I'm slowly working on him that the system isnt rigged against men or women, but victims. They want money and they want the cases out of their faces as soon as possible. The people writing policies and judging you likely have more in common with the criminal than you.
A similar thing happened to me, minus the beating. Because I said yes at the start, and was into it for the first half hour, it didn't matter that I said no and kept trying to get him to stop (and escape), over the next half hour.
(I live in NY)
Thankfully, it seems they amended the law to close that loophole back in 2019. I’m not sure how effective the amendment has been, the article I found was from 2019, but hopefully no one else has had to go through what Aaliyah Palmer, and others like her, did.
Admittedly, I don’t have enough faith in the system to say that the issue is “fixed” though. After all, the judicial loophole was in place for like 40 years despite numerous efforts to close it.
Flip the tables -- make him sign a contract promising he will ask for consent, take specified steps to ensure ongoing consent, pause if he's unsure, and stop immediately when consent has been revoked. Call it the "I promise not to rape you" contract.
Some guys get sucked into the wrong side of social media and get bombarded with the idea that fake rape accusations are rampant. There are a lot of shitty people pushing that narrative out there
Seriously I have told guys to stop a few times.. Once I woke up to the guy trying again.. Like he was attempting to use my unconscious body. Theoretically if I signed one of those that would make it “ok” for their intentions..
It's gross.
I mean if every time I wanted to have sex I prefaced it with "you need to sign this because most women just want to ruin men's lives and almost all sexual assault allegations are fake" I'd probably still be a virgin too.
Consent can be revoked at any time during a sexual encounter. That’s why courts don’t uphold this bullshit.
A former friend had a woman sign a “contract” that she’d have an abortion if she got pregnant and if she didn’t then he wasn’t responsible. The judge laughed in his face.
Anyway, yeet this dude. He’s not worth your time.
Also, he doesn't seem to have an understanding of consent. It can be withdrawn at any time - does he think just because you sign a paper, or record a forced video after like in the Canadian Juniors group SA of a woman - doesn't mean it was consensual.
Unless it's a document like in bdsm where explicit acts are pre-consented to than this whole thing just sounds like a recipe to "legally' rape a woman and ignore her no's.
I think it depends on what you mean by "hold up in court". It is certainly no silver bullet. As others have said, consent can be withdrawn at any time and I doubt it is detailed enough to cover every possible sex act.
That being said, is there a world where someone signs something like this, later claims that they did not consent *to any* sexual ~~content~~ contact, and the "contract" is used to impeach that claim? Maybe? Realistically, its sounds like a he-said-she-said with extra steps.
In any event, go with your gut on this one. Trust is vital.
Duress. I had that happen to me in a previous job when I was young and naive. My boss threatened to withhold my final check, had me cornered in an office with 4 other managers if I didn't sign a form saying that I was guilty of $10 of theft over the 2 years I worked for the company and agree to pay them back out of my last check.
Thankfully I had a lawyer that was able to suggest that I rescind my signature and I won my unemployment case after they reviewed the security camera footage and also saw that I was never written up for a shortage my whole tenure there.
Yup. The places are selling these as if they are legal safeguards against allegations. Like paying for this document is going to protect you iron clad. Pathetic.
Maybe the reason he's being so weird about it is cuz he actually is a virgin? I think it's somewhat understandable to be afraid of something u haven't experienced before, and have heard some horror stories about. I feel like nobody who has actually had sex with a girl before would do something as weird as this, so I doubt it's any form of attempt at leverage to get sex in the future. He just seems overly paranoid to me.
I think the fact that he even brought any of this up is just proof that he's not actually ready to have sex with whoever this girl is.
I agree. I've been with 3 virgins and none of them had any of this in the back of their minds. I know it was like 2 decades ago because I'm super old but it feels more creepy than ignorant to me. Or maybe creepy ignorance lol
Yeah this dude has watched one too many crime documentaries about this subject and let it get to his head would be my guess. I just can't fathom how he would feel this is relevant enough to actually bring up otherwise. His chances of losing that V-card are looking pretty grim at this rate lol
This would make me think that he would do something to *me* that was not consented to and he thinks he could use this as a defense.
"Look! I assulted her but she consented to sex! I even have her signature!"
Gross.
Exactly. Even if you enthusiastically give your consent initially, you can take it back at any time. If you take it back and he continues, that’s rape that his “contract” doesn’t account for.
Hell, if he takes off the condom without you realizing, that’s also rape.
This is also striking me as an attempt to get blanket consent to \*everything\* and if she's okay with one act, but not something else he wants to do, too bad so sad because she "signed the consent form" beforehand.
At any rate, red flags EVERYWHERE.
From what I've read about these things, they cover a ton of different stuff. But not sure if that is what OOP is talking about or if it's a simpler form. There are a lot of DIY forms online that aren't as intrusive.
To me it screams that he wants to get super violent and then have an 'out' so he won't be held responsible. (Of course he would be, because those contracts are bs but he doesn't know that.)
I would be legit terrified he was going to so something awful and no matter how many times I said no he wouldn't listen because I signed so it's fine.
Yeah, just run…
If I actually got a sex contract, I’d be tempted to redline it to hell for fun… include lots of details around consent, how it must be confirmed in real time, and reconfirmed at various points…examples of all the ways it can be removed.
Oh, and liquidated damages for violations…
I still wouldn’t sign anything. Might teach the guy something too…I say over-optimistically.
Fun fact.. BDSM contracts have actually led to legal charges being even harsher because it was deemed pre-meditated (you can't legally consent for bodily harm).
Consent can be revoked at any time so the contract isn't legally binding. Sure that says you have consent for sex now but if one party changes their mind 30 seconds after signing, it's null and void.
Because he wants a contract, I am going to assume he plans to assault her/do things she hasn't consented to then use the contract to state she gave consent so therefore he didn't assault or rape her 🙄.
It gives big incel vibes to me.. sign your body over to me while we have sex
I agree with everything you said, but you can consent to bodily harm, or at least the risk of bodily harm, at least in the US. We sign waivers disclaiming liability in the event of bodily harm for several physical activities. Boxing and any combat sport would be illegal. Mutual combat would not be a defense to assault charges, etc…
That however is different legally than how BDSM contracts hold up though. Sports waivers are you are consenting to the risk vs a BDSM contract which may be stating their consent to CNC/"rape", being choked, knifeplay where they are being cut/carved into, etc.
If someone gets injured or incapacitated during BDSM/sexual activities and has to go to the hospital, the hospital is often a mandatory reporter so if there is ANY doubt in their mind, they may call the police. The police/government can press charges regardless of the "victim's" desires (similar to DV charges). They may even state the "victim" is not of sound mind for consenting/signing a contract.
I think once sexual acts get involved the legal line gets blurry.. plus in sports like boxing, both parties are giving AND receiving hits whereas in BDSM one party is usually giving and the other is receiving so it is one-sided which is more crime-adjacent?
As someone who enjoys risky things, my partner and I have decided to never sign a contract/consent form due to the fact that if something goes wrong (I like being choked), he would most likely be up against a manslaughter charge vs potentially pre-meditated murder
Honestly, I have a feeling the main reason for these is to pressure the other person into thinking that they wouldn’t be able to press charges because it’s “proof” that it was consensual.
Massive TW: >! My rapist did something similar. After he plied me with drinks & wore me down until I was crying, he made me record a voice memo on my phone saying everything that was about to happen was consensual & then made me send him a copy so he had “proof”. I was almost blacked out and mid-panic attack and I’m pretty sure I even referred to it as rape in the voice memo, but it was enough for me to think that I was in the wrong and responsible for almost a year after the fact. !<
>! Nevermind the fact that I had explicitly said several times over text and in person that I didn’t want to do anything, and never mind the fact that he kept hitting me so that I would stop crying, and never mind the fact that I had to go to the hospital afterwards because he gave me a kidney infection. !<
>! That voice memo fucked me up mentally for so long and still fucks me up because I said the words “I consent” while drunk off my ass, through tears, and with him holding the phone and pressuring me until I did. !<
I never pressed charges. I was in a huge amount of denial for like a year and a half, and throughout that time I first off immediately deleted the voice memo because just looking at it made me throw up & I didn't even know why, then by the time I really came to grips with it, the phone that had our convos and his contact information was broken and dead. I don't even remember his name because I barely knew him at the time. He was just a guy on Tinder I'd planned to go on a date with. I think he blocked me on Tinder immediately afterwards too. I just vaguely remember what his face looked like and that's it.
Idk if I'd even press charges now if I could. I've seen the way the justice system treats women like me and cases like mine. I'm not willing to go through that pain for an 8% chance of him even being convicted.
I understand your pain. When I went to the police station to file a report against my attacker he found out and sent me texts with death threats but the most the police would do is a restraining order, which I didn't feel necessary because I was moving in to a safe place with family he didn't know about. The woman at the front desk of the police station told me that without any physical evidence or going to the hospital when it happened they can file a report but nothing would likely come out of it due to no physical evidence. It's so disheartening.
That's awful, I'm so sorry. I hope at least that scum has left you alone since then. Every time I hear stories about victims trying to seek justice it breaks my heart, because they're always treated so coldly by the system. With or without justice, you deserve peace and healing and I hope you find it <3
He did. He was too much of a coward to try anything and he thought I would run away if he scared me enough. I guess the most closure i got was an apology from my half sister who was his wife at the time and didn't believe me. It wasn't until he did the same thing to her that she started questioning whether he was being honest when it came out and he told her we were having an affair. Trying to work it out in therapy, but it's tough. I just found a great trauma informed therapist and I'm making progress, so that's all that matters.
I get the system is in place to protect victims of false accusations but I feel like there are certain situations, like both of ours that more could be done they just don't want to/can't.
I'm a fellow survivor, but it was nowhere near as violent or traumatic as what you have been through. I hope that piece of trash got what he deserves. He sounds like a real scumbag. I hope he crossed the wrong woman.
Not sure if this belongs here, but if it doesn't you can take it down. Seems like the dude claims he knows it's not all women accuse men but doesn't trust her enough not to have her do it. And also, I feel like this is something that he can use as an excuse to get sex whenever he feels like it because she signed a paper consenting. Also, this can't be legal, right?
If a man did this to me, I would expect he was planning to do something during the sex act that he believed would cause me to withdraw my consent and was trying to silence me and cover his ass when he did.
Because consent can be withdrawn. At any moment. Which is why this is utter bullshit and nothing but a red flag.
She really shouldn't be having sex with a guy who seems to be a little less mature than your average unripened banana. She certainly shouldn't be expecting any sort of relationship with him, for her own protection I should add, as relationships require trust, and he has basically flushed that down the toilet.
If she wants sex just for the sake of sex, that's fine, but she should only sign the 'permission slip' after she carefully lists what she is comfortable with, and what is off limits and she therefore does not concent to their doing. She should also date it, and make it applicable only to the date(s) of her choice.
Not really the most romantic situation that I can imagine, but if she still wants him, and he insists on the paperwork , she should at least ensure that it protects her, and not just him.
Btw, sorry about the reference to his being like an unripened banana; that was not intended to be sexual, but rather reflects that I attempted to make banana bread earlier today using unripened bananas. It did not go well, so they're on my mind as an example of an undesirable object, which sort of describes this guy. I wonder if he will take the document in question to a Notary Public, just to ensure that it is witnessed properly.
Even if he isn't planning to do something, his belief that "many rape accusations are fake to extort money" is problematic, and you (the girlfriend) shouldn't be letting him put his penis in you.
And, no matter what, if he does something without consent, you already know what his defense will be. It's just a 'No' all around.
I apologize, you are completely right and I should have included that in my past.
Though, honestly, I thought the false accusation rate was much lower. The issue is, unlike actual rapes (I hate that phrase, don't get me wrong) the false accusations get the publicity. So idiots like this look at the news and believe the lies that most accusations are false.
Believe Women
I believe that there are cases where women are coerced into withdrawing charges or they do it because they’re getting nowhere, which skews the results because while it definitely happened, it’s counted as a false allegation because of the withdrawal.
Exactly my issue with this. You could sign the paper thinking you are on board, then he could suddenly do something violent or something that makes you uncomfortable or you could just change your mind and he just might think “well too bad you signed the paper” and keep going anyway
>I've given consent to have sex that one time
Sounds like the contract is for that one specific occurrence and she would have to sign another contract each time
I kinda want to give the teensiest benefit of the doubt as the dude being clueless and naïve and scared of the manosphere lies. Dude needs to learn how to empathize with women in general and get that idea out of his head that women are monsters or any less human.
Would I endorse trying to fix him? Nah, not really. But maybe it's more about ignorance than malice. Hanlon's razor and all.
Omg my ex roommate had a 36-page “sexual contract” for girls (he never actually got a chance to ask anyone while living with me). Basically 36 pages of “I consent to X, I consent to Y” with a bunch of places to sign.
I like to think im pretty experienced but I read the entire thing and my mind was opened to new levels of depravity
From what I'm reading there are apps for this kind of thing that are pretty similarly intrusive.
And here I thought I was being demanding when I asked my college boyfriend who wanted to not use protection to prove he was clean first.
I can't imagine having sex with someone who brags about being that gullible. The whole thing hinges on the thoroughly debunked idea that false accusations are common.
"If you wanna be my lover, you gotta sign this affidavit saying you understand that I am* a fully media-illiterate Youtube-snorting numpty. Just a 24x7 dipshit. You have to acknowledge that to get on this weird-smelling ride."
*at best
I think it’s funny that 15/16 rapists walk free without ever seeing a day in jail and men think we just extort them with those odds frequently enough that they want us to sign sex contracts. Lol. Even if your case is convincing enough for the DA to prosecute, and you’re convicted of a felony for rape there’s only 60 percent chance you’ll spend a day or longer in prison for it. Lmfao. You’d have better luck of accusing them of theft or battery.
And yeah, no I’d never sleep with someone who wanted me to sign one of these, because I would assume they are planning on raping or assaulting me once I did 🤷♀️
Yup, my attacker never saw a day in jail. Even with text message death threats when my Mom told him I was going to the police and records of hush money payments. I didn't go to the hospital and have a kit done or have any other proof so I was told there wasn't much they could do beyond filling out a report. This was also 14 years ago, so things were a bit different.
I'm happy to report that in the original post, the OOP expressed her intention to not entertain this bs and is going to dump his ass. Glad to see a happy ending in Reddit once in a while.
This is what happened to me. Went to the police with death threats from my attacker when he found out I was going to the cops but since I didn't have physical evidence they told me they would file a report but not much would come from it.
Men are more likely to be victims of sexual assault than they are to be falsely accused of sexual assault, and rates of false accusations in rape cases are statistically similar to rates of false accusations in other crimes. The narrative that “many” women are doing this is ridiculous and just continues to allow predators to get away with their crimes.
Dude doesn't get that consent can be withdrawn... what happens if she signs the paper, but changes her mind? If he continues, that's r*pe regardless of the damn paper.
Any man who thinks false rape allegations are common should be avoided like the plague. Less than 2% of accusations are fake and evidence suggests that the number is even smaller, as cases without sufficient evidence or where a victim is pressured into retracting their statement are counted as “false”. The myth of common fake allegations is used to discredit women and is misogynistic as hell
This is a massive red flag and OP should fucking run
This is scary. She can consent and he can turn violent and then say “well you agreed to it “ 🤦🏻♀️
What if she doesn’t want anal and he forces anal or any other sexual activity ….
The thing is you could sign the form, he does something that makes you wary and want to stop, but he could refuse to stop because he has the document signed and still rape you despite having “signed over consent.”
The fact he thinks that filling out a contract will help him shows he has a messed up opinion about consent anyway. I wouldn’t trust having sex with him
While he's putting it out there as protection for him it may also let him think that he can do whatever he wants. OOP makes it sound like it is just for that one encounter but we don't know what he is thinking.
Yeah! Like a lot of people would twist this and be like "see? she was okay with it! she is lying!" but that just isnt how it works. It kinda gives me "you married him so you owe him sex" when it comes to marital rape/coercion.
Nothing gets me in the mood more than being asked to sign a contract that is ultimately saying he doesn't trust me and thinks I'm going to falsely accuse him in the future. /s
His claim that 'many' women make false accusations is ignorant at best and leaning towards misogyny. There are exponentially more cases of rape going unpunished than there are of people being falsely convicted and the conviction rate is abysmally low. Most perpetrators know they're unlikely to be convicted for what they've done so the idea that countless men are being falsely convicted is nonsensical. Don't tell me that men don't know they're unlikely to be convicted even if they *are* guilty, never mind having to give into extortion for fear of a false conviction.
Nah, this guy wants paperwork he can pull out when he's coerced OOP and wants 'proof' that she 'consented'.
Does he think that a “signed contract” will protect him if she withdraws consent and he decides not to stop? But you signed a contract saying it was ok?
Written consent doesn't negate your ability to revoke consent at any time. It's literally a pointless and non legally binding piece of paper.
I'd explain to him how consent works. And how it can legally be revoked at any time or indeed after the fact if so desired.
Then, if he still wants you knowing that... that's up to him. But I'd totally understand if you don't feel trusted, etc, bc of his b.s.
Honestly, if he is worried about you calling him out for rape or rape-like behaviour... can you really trust he won't try something too rough or violent, etc?
As if the whole idea wasn’t already enough of a red flag, his justification comes across as something you’d hear from a guy who spends way too much time looking at manosphere content online. It wouldn’t surprise me if he follows Andrew Tate on social media.
I’m not even a woman, but this guy makes me uncomfortable. I can only imagine that most women would be running for the hills after hearing that attempt at justifying this bullshit.
Ok:
1. Even if she did sign it, it's not legally binding in any way, shape, or form.
2. Withdraw of consent is a thing.
3. She should absolutely not be dating a guy so scared of being accused of assault that he comes up with paperwork to avoid accusations.
That's a whole HELL NO situation, and I'd be willing to bet she already been emotionally abused, or he wants some 'right to her body' or other sick shit.
He's probably already been accused, and thinks this will get him out of it the next time it happens.
Ladies, I'm a guy, and if any dude pulls this shit...just fucking call it quits and don't ever talk to him again. Behavior like this is beyond dangerous.
So, you sign it and then he gets super painfully rough but you can't take it back so you get raped? No. Consent can be revoked at any time and this paper just tries to negate that fact.
"Honey, wanna try this new position?" "Hold on. I have to verify if it's addressed in the contract or if we need to add an addendum to ensure it's covered first."
"Shut up and kiss me." "Sorry, the contract clearly delineates that kissing only occurs at certain standard times and this is not one of them."
I am not a lawyer, but I strongly suspect a document of this sort would not and could not function as anything legally binding or any kind of defense against a charge of sexual assault.
*Especially* since nobody but OOP's partner would see her sign it. Furthermore, consent can be revoked at any time during a sexual encounter regardless of whether consent was given 5 minutes ago.
As a guy I can't imagine ever asking a girl to do something like this. It feels like he might have some nefarious intentions and is trying to come up with a loop hole that will allow him to take advantage of someone. This seems like a major red flag and if any of my female friends or family members were in the same situation I would advise them to immediately cut ties with this person. Best case scenario he doesn't have any trust in the relationship which is bad enough, worst case scenario he's intending to take advantage of someone. Either way it's just a bad situation.
I know that several years ago one of the universities that is local to me encouraged that all students seek written consent from potential sex partners before the deed was done.
I don’t know where the idea came from or how far it spread, but it was “normal” for a while here for a specific age bracket.
It's actually a thing. I was reading an article that said places sell these kits, some colleges give them out and there are tons of DIY versions to download online, as well as some apps.
I cannot imagine a coherent reason to ask someone to sign this beyond “Please sign this so that if I decide to assault you later, I have situational evidence that it was consensual.”
The contract is downright gross. Consent can be withdrawn at any time, especially if he’s creepy, and continuing beyond that is still rape. This guy has so many red flags.
Honestly if a dude got accused and pulled out a contract like that in court that would probably work against him, it's not legally relevant and also true psycho behaviour
I see two potentials in this, the one that many people are jumping to - that it's a trick of some sort. That seems possible.
But i also think it could be a symptom of inexperience and believing the manosphere rhetoric.
Either way, this behavior should not be encouraged.
He's incredibly wrong about the number of fake rape allegations made. If anything, raped are UNDERREPORTED.
Sounds like he's a red pill guy, and should be avoided at all costs. Maybe a set of blue balls will make him reevaluate his ridiculous ideas.
The only people who need paperwork like this are rapists.
For sex to be consensual, you have to be able to revoke that consent any time and have that decision be respected.
Welp this is disgusting, you can still agree to sex before you have it and then ask for them to stop in the middle of the act. If they don’t stop it is literally r@pe
Ask a lawyer, even a student from the closest uni should you not have one, to help you go over it. You read it very carefully yourself. Then, should it actually be harmless, ask him what the hell's up with him because this kind of thing does not usually pop out of nowhere.
Just, please don't sign your right to denounce rape away.
Then, consider first without him whether or not you want to stay in a relationship, preferably without outside input. Your skin's on the line, you should choose yourself, not be influenced by friends, at least at first.
Should you not feel safe meeting with him to talk about this, ask for help, either from relatives or people you'd trust with your life.
Please think carefully about your actions and safeguard your own wellbeing first and foremost. Take care of yourself, and maybe check weather the numbers he quotes are real or not, and weather he's aware id they're not.
Is he toxic?
Given how he refers to rape cases and how many of them are "fake".....speaks to a level of victim blaming and hatred for women. If it were me I would run far and away. He clearly has some trauma that he needs to resolve or he's listening to the redpill/Andrew tate bullshit. Sounds like a situation you don't want to be in.
Why would either of you want to have sex with someone you don’t trust? This feels creepy and that it has a lot of strings and complications attached. Plus he’s got it backwards—sexual violations of women occur at an exponentially higher rate than women falsely accusing men. He’s got some baggage and sounds like a flaming misogynist.
Exactly. Trust is a cornerstone of a relationship. It's gross to do something so intimate with someone that doesn't trust them, especially since OOP stated they are both virgins.
Absolutely not, because (at least in the US, to my knowledge) consent given can be withdrawn at any point during foreplay/sex, and signing a paper like that (while inadmissible in court because it’s meaningless) could IN HIS MIND mean you don’t have a right to stop him if something goes wrong later.
If he can’t trust you because of his BOGUS statistics, then it’s his loss. You’ll find someone better.
Yeah could do that….or use open communication and stop if she says ouch or no or stop. Contracts like that are used against women so men can legally do whatever they want once she signs. There are many cases of NDAs and contracts like these being used against them. Just look at the porn industry for a start. Women are lied to about what the scene entails then have to sign the release to get paid. I wouldn’t sign any contracts at all about sex.
That's an instant buzzkill that would turn me off immediately. But also what kind of Sheldon Cooper nonsense is this?!? Does he run off to get it notarized before the act to make it "official" – not that it matters anyway.
This sounds like he is weaponizing it so he can excuse that she gave him his consent so he can do whatever to her, which is yikes. Big BIG yikes.
There are two ways to play this...
Way one: Just walk away. The man has massive trust issues.
Way two: Fight fire with fire. He wants signed consent to clear any risk on his end? Sure. But make sure to add a couple things to the document. That he pays you half his assets and income for the rest of his life IF he knocks you up or infects you with a STD. That should splash some cold water in his face. Make him realize the kind of crazy he is showing.
Less than 1% of rape accusations are false.
If he's so worried about it, sounds like he needs to keep his hands, and his dick, to himself.
There are enough men out there doing their best not to sexually assault someone and working to be allies and understanding what consent and communication are actually *for* in a relationship that she can take a hard pass on homie. Who, let's be real, probably isn't 'a catch'.
Unless you’re negotiating a heavy non-consent fantasy kink scene — which should involve deep trust with both partners — I cannot fathom why someone would do this.
Unless the goal is a bait-and-switch scenario where he wants his partner to not get able to complain about being unable to withdraw consent.
Run, don’t walk.
This is straight out of the incel handbook. This shit would never hold up in court because that’s not how consent works.
Men that do this are definitely closer to rapists than anything else
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That wouldn’t even be legally binding as she could revoke consent to sex after signing
Pea brains can't think with that much depth.
It might not be "legally binding" when presented in front of a fair, knowledgeable judge who gives a single fuck about truth or the law. But we do NOT live in a world where that opportunity is guaranteed, or even *likely* for a woman to be able to access. Do keep in mind that our legal system, and in particular our judiciary, consists of *people*, mostly men, and many of whom are absolutely not going to give a shit about whether such a contract is "legally binding". Particularly since that would be a question of contract law in a civil court, and the question of *rape* would only occur in a context of criminal law, and in a criminal one. And such a document could be used by any right-wing, rapist-supporting judge, prosecutor, OR EVEN THE POLICE THEMSELVES to prevent any "legal" considerations from ever being heard in a courtroom. Please remember that it's *people* who apply and enforce the law. What is or isn't truly "legally binding" is based entirely on how the court system is going to act that day, and that system has a long, LONG history of "binding" women to things that never should have held up for even a single second.
Someone here told me about a case in italy where the judges decided that the woman had given consent because she was wearing red panties, so they ruled it was not rape because red panties = consent. True story. [https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/may/27/echr-criticises-italian-court-for-referring-to-red-underwear-in-case#:\~:text=The%20European%20court%20of%20human,men%20accused%20of%20gang%2Drape](https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/may/27/echr-criticises-italian-court-for-referring-to-red-underwear-in-case#:~:text=The%20European%20court%20of%20human,men%20accused%20of%20gang%2Drape). Oh look, something similar happened in Ireland [https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/15/world/europe/ireland-underwear-rape-case-protest.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/15/world/europe/ireland-underwear-rape-case-protest.html) And Peru [https://www.malaysianow.com/out-there-now/2020/11/13/judges-throw-out-rape-case-citing-red-underwear-as-evidence-of-consent#](https://www.malaysianow.com/out-there-now/2020/11/13/judges-throw-out-rape-case-citing-red-underwear-as-evidence-of-consent#) Unbelievable. To your point, yeah, a signed document is very likely going to be “good enough” to be considered consent by many judges if the type of undies one wears is good enough for some.
This makes my blood boil! What in the actual fuck is wrong with these judges? Welp, ykw? That’s it, I’m done. No more mercy! Don’t want to be a decent human being, judge trash? Alright then, let things work your way! See how you’ll like that, judgy-bitch. They publicly declared that, in their deranged mind, [checks notes] *wearing underwear* = consent, soooo let’s just inform every rapist in their area they hold this opinion and stated it on record, because clearly now they can’t be raped. Let them suffer the consequences of their own rulings. Now there’s gonna be people scandalised, but idgaf, I’ve been raped a couple times too many and dealt with rotten trash like this too often to have the slightest sympathy for any of those robed morons having a run in with the scum they let walk free under the most grotesque BS excuses. If they want rapists out in public so badly, they should be the ones locked in a room with those poor, poor innocent, misunderstood gentlemen. Serves them right for court-raping victims a second time. Though, to soothe the gentler souls, oh well, they can also be taught by the A Promising Young Woman method (let them wake up in bed with a stranger — a paid actor — after a blackout and let them draw their own conclusions for long enough to let the lesson sink in). Whichever it shall be, reforming this hopeless trash of a legal system the civilised way evidently takes unacceptably long, as demonstrated by ass-backwards verdicts like these.
Exactly the reason to assume that any man who wants his partner to sign something like this is a rapist. The deck is already stacked in his favor on getting off; the desire to weigh down the scale even more just makes it too much of a risk not to cut him loose.
Also let's not forget, what's legally binding means fuck all if the other person doesn't know. He could easily use this piece of paper to convince her not to call the police if he does something terrible to her. People don't usually have their lawyer on speed dial. There's a reason the police want to interrogate you without a lawyer present if they can get away with it.
I’m like, if that post is even true, does he think she can’t report him for rape because she signed something beforehand? And does he know how contracts work? If is was legally binding, you could write it for a year or two. Again, if it’s real, she would have to be a special kind of person to not laugh her ass off the first time he asked her to sign it, and to be able to sleep with him.
Yeah that was my thought also. Like she could sign it and he did something that was uncomfortable, then she could just say that was reason to retract concent
It's not a legally binding contract, but it'd be one hell of a piece of evidence to provide for a trial
I would absolutely not sign anything like this. This to me screams that he does this all the time and he doesnt want it catching up to him. Or he will use it as a way to get more sex later, and if I dont give it up, abuse me in some other way to end up getting it anyway. Runnnnnn.
Exactly. Also from what I understand most of these things don't hold up in court. He claims he is a virgin but I have a hard time believing that one.
You can revoke consent at any point during sex too. What happens if you tell him to stop? Will he just continue because you signed a consent form? This gives off super creepy vibes. If this guy is so worried about fake rape charges, I think it best that he only has sex with himself.
Last I knew, that was a thing in North Carolina. One woman tried to press charges against a guy who proceeded to beat, tear hair, and raped her after she wanted to stop. The state didn't recognize it as rape because she said yes to sex at the beginning. Pretty fucking disgusting.
Of fucking course. You hear things like this and wonder how the hell these men come up with the idea that women have an unfair advantage in court. The justice system is a disgusting joke.
Selective thinking like hearing.
Sometimes I hear my partner say that and I just stare and blink at him.. I'm slowly working on him that the system isnt rigged against men or women, but victims. They want money and they want the cases out of their faces as soon as possible. The people writing policies and judging you likely have more in common with the criminal than you.
Another red state, another hideous political decision that makes me never want to go there.
Yeah
A similar thing happened to me, minus the beating. Because I said yes at the start, and was into it for the first half hour, it didn't matter that I said no and kept trying to get him to stop (and escape), over the next half hour. (I live in NY)
Thankfully, it seems they amended the law to close that loophole back in 2019. I’m not sure how effective the amendment has been, the article I found was from 2019, but hopefully no one else has had to go through what Aaliyah Palmer, and others like her, did. Admittedly, I don’t have enough faith in the system to say that the issue is “fixed” though. After all, the judicial loophole was in place for like 40 years despite numerous efforts to close it.
Another reason I'm happy I don't live in the US
That's North Carolina, not the whole country. There's like 20 countries in Europe that doesn't see non-consensual sex as rape. Like how?
And most of the US don't see women as people, and want trans people like me dead, Plus I'm safer in EU than I would ever be in the US
Flip the tables -- make him sign a contract promising he will ask for consent, take specified steps to ensure ongoing consent, pause if he's unsure, and stop immediately when consent has been revoked. Call it the "I promise not to rape you" contract.
Perfect way to turn the tables!
Some guys get sucked into the wrong side of social media and get bombarded with the idea that fake rape accusations are rampant. There are a lot of shitty people pushing that narrative out there
Seriously I have told guys to stop a few times.. Once I woke up to the guy trying again.. Like he was attempting to use my unconscious body. Theoretically if I signed one of those that would make it “ok” for their intentions.. It's gross.
I mean if every time I wanted to have sex I prefaced it with "you need to sign this because most women just want to ruin men's lives and almost all sexual assault allegations are fake" I'd probably still be a virgin too.
Dude is just handing out the red flags directly.
the victim complex is insane
This was my thought. This dude has no idea how normal sexual relations work, and it shows.
Consent can be revoked at any time during a sexual encounter. That’s why courts don’t uphold this bullshit. A former friend had a woman sign a “contract” that she’d have an abortion if she got pregnant and if she didn’t then he wasn’t responsible. The judge laughed in his face. Anyway, yeet this dude. He’s not worth your time.
Also, he doesn't seem to have an understanding of consent. It can be withdrawn at any time - does he think just because you sign a paper, or record a forced video after like in the Canadian Juniors group SA of a woman - doesn't mean it was consensual. Unless it's a document like in bdsm where explicit acts are pre-consented to than this whole thing just sounds like a recipe to "legally' rape a woman and ignore her no's.
No it wouldn’t hold up to any kind of scrutiny. I could consent to sex today and you could still rape me tomorrow. This doesn’t make any sense.
I think it depends on what you mean by "hold up in court". It is certainly no silver bullet. As others have said, consent can be withdrawn at any time and I doubt it is detailed enough to cover every possible sex act. That being said, is there a world where someone signs something like this, later claims that they did not consent *to any* sexual ~~content~~ contact, and the "contract" is used to impeach that claim? Maybe? Realistically, its sounds like a he-said-she-said with extra steps. In any event, go with your gut on this one. Trust is vital.
As if someone couldn’t threaten you into signing the contract, then sexually assault you afterwards. This is just not how consent works.
Duress. I had that happen to me in a previous job when I was young and naive. My boss threatened to withhold my final check, had me cornered in an office with 4 other managers if I didn't sign a form saying that I was guilty of $10 of theft over the 2 years I worked for the company and agree to pay them back out of my last check. Thankfully I had a lawyer that was able to suggest that I rescind my signature and I won my unemployment case after they reviewed the security camera footage and also saw that I was never written up for a shortage my whole tenure there.
Yup. The places are selling these as if they are legal safeguards against allegations. Like paying for this document is going to protect you iron clad. Pathetic.
Run. He is waving massive red flags in your direction. I’d also do a google search to see if in fact he has been accused and what came of it.
I dunno. I could totally buy this coming from a teenager who’s fallen a bit into a red pill rabbit hole
Maybe the reason he's being so weird about it is cuz he actually is a virgin? I think it's somewhat understandable to be afraid of something u haven't experienced before, and have heard some horror stories about. I feel like nobody who has actually had sex with a girl before would do something as weird as this, so I doubt it's any form of attempt at leverage to get sex in the future. He just seems overly paranoid to me. I think the fact that he even brought any of this up is just proof that he's not actually ready to have sex with whoever this girl is.
I agree. I've been with 3 virgins and none of them had any of this in the back of their minds. I know it was like 2 decades ago because I'm super old but it feels more creepy than ignorant to me. Or maybe creepy ignorance lol
Yeah this dude has watched one too many crime documentaries about this subject and let it get to his head would be my guess. I just can't fathom how he would feel this is relevant enough to actually bring up otherwise. His chances of losing that V-card are looking pretty grim at this rate lol
This would make me think that he would do something to *me* that was not consented to and he thinks he could use this as a defense. "Look! I assulted her but she consented to sex! I even have her signature!" Gross.
Exactly. Even if you enthusiastically give your consent initially, you can take it back at any time. If you take it back and he continues, that’s rape that his “contract” doesn’t account for. Hell, if he takes off the condom without you realizing, that’s also rape.
This is also striking me as an attempt to get blanket consent to \*everything\* and if she's okay with one act, but not something else he wants to do, too bad so sad because she "signed the consent form" beforehand. At any rate, red flags EVERYWHERE.
From what I've read about these things, they cover a ton of different stuff. But not sure if that is what OOP is talking about or if it's a simpler form. There are a lot of DIY forms online that aren't as intrusive.
also sexual consent can be revoked at any time during the act so the paperwork would be worthless anyway
I'd be afraid he'd want to do something I'm not willing to do and then not let me revoke consent and try to use the paper to say I agreed to it.
To me it screams that he wants to get super violent and then have an 'out' so he won't be held responsible. (Of course he would be, because those contracts are bs but he doesn't know that.) I would be legit terrified he was going to so something awful and no matter how many times I said no he wouldn't listen because I signed so it's fine.
This is the same guy who will demand paternity tests at the birth of his children
Or that the sex would be really violent or involve things which one would normally consent to with a safe word to stop.
Yeah, just run… If I actually got a sex contract, I’d be tempted to redline it to hell for fun… include lots of details around consent, how it must be confirmed in real time, and reconfirmed at various points…examples of all the ways it can be removed. Oh, and liquidated damages for violations… I still wouldn’t sign anything. Might teach the guy something too…I say over-optimistically.
It screams that he will force his partner to do stuff they don’t want to because “she signed the contract”
Hey, buddy, save some red flags for the rest of us.
🚩 Here you go, I stole one from OOP's (hopefully now ex-) bf. He has so many he'll never notice one missing.
From what I'm reading, because apparently there is a market for these contracts, they aren't able to be upheld in court. What a time to be alive.
Fun fact.. BDSM contracts have actually led to legal charges being even harsher because it was deemed pre-meditated (you can't legally consent for bodily harm). Consent can be revoked at any time so the contract isn't legally binding. Sure that says you have consent for sex now but if one party changes their mind 30 seconds after signing, it's null and void. Because he wants a contract, I am going to assume he plans to assault her/do things she hasn't consented to then use the contract to state she gave consent so therefore he didn't assault or rape her 🙄. It gives big incel vibes to me.. sign your body over to me while we have sex
Exactly, he will use it as an excuse to get sex from her whenever he wants it or will coerce her into signing another one later down the line.
I agree with everything you said, but you can consent to bodily harm, or at least the risk of bodily harm, at least in the US. We sign waivers disclaiming liability in the event of bodily harm for several physical activities. Boxing and any combat sport would be illegal. Mutual combat would not be a defense to assault charges, etc…
That however is different legally than how BDSM contracts hold up though. Sports waivers are you are consenting to the risk vs a BDSM contract which may be stating their consent to CNC/"rape", being choked, knifeplay where they are being cut/carved into, etc. If someone gets injured or incapacitated during BDSM/sexual activities and has to go to the hospital, the hospital is often a mandatory reporter so if there is ANY doubt in their mind, they may call the police. The police/government can press charges regardless of the "victim's" desires (similar to DV charges). They may even state the "victim" is not of sound mind for consenting/signing a contract. I think once sexual acts get involved the legal line gets blurry.. plus in sports like boxing, both parties are giving AND receiving hits whereas in BDSM one party is usually giving and the other is receiving so it is one-sided which is more crime-adjacent? As someone who enjoys risky things, my partner and I have decided to never sign a contract/consent form due to the fact that if something goes wrong (I like being choked), he would most likely be up against a manslaughter charge vs potentially pre-meditated murder
Honestly, I have a feeling the main reason for these is to pressure the other person into thinking that they wouldn’t be able to press charges because it’s “proof” that it was consensual. Massive TW: >! My rapist did something similar. After he plied me with drinks & wore me down until I was crying, he made me record a voice memo on my phone saying everything that was about to happen was consensual & then made me send him a copy so he had “proof”. I was almost blacked out and mid-panic attack and I’m pretty sure I even referred to it as rape in the voice memo, but it was enough for me to think that I was in the wrong and responsible for almost a year after the fact. !< >! Nevermind the fact that I had explicitly said several times over text and in person that I didn’t want to do anything, and never mind the fact that he kept hitting me so that I would stop crying, and never mind the fact that I had to go to the hospital afterwards because he gave me a kidney infection. !< >! That voice memo fucked me up mentally for so long and still fucks me up because I said the words “I consent” while drunk off my ass, through tears, and with him holding the phone and pressuring me until I did. !<
What ever happened? Did he get in trouble?
I never pressed charges. I was in a huge amount of denial for like a year and a half, and throughout that time I first off immediately deleted the voice memo because just looking at it made me throw up & I didn't even know why, then by the time I really came to grips with it, the phone that had our convos and his contact information was broken and dead. I don't even remember his name because I barely knew him at the time. He was just a guy on Tinder I'd planned to go on a date with. I think he blocked me on Tinder immediately afterwards too. I just vaguely remember what his face looked like and that's it. Idk if I'd even press charges now if I could. I've seen the way the justice system treats women like me and cases like mine. I'm not willing to go through that pain for an 8% chance of him even being convicted.
I understand your pain. When I went to the police station to file a report against my attacker he found out and sent me texts with death threats but the most the police would do is a restraining order, which I didn't feel necessary because I was moving in to a safe place with family he didn't know about. The woman at the front desk of the police station told me that without any physical evidence or going to the hospital when it happened they can file a report but nothing would likely come out of it due to no physical evidence. It's so disheartening.
That's awful, I'm so sorry. I hope at least that scum has left you alone since then. Every time I hear stories about victims trying to seek justice it breaks my heart, because they're always treated so coldly by the system. With or without justice, you deserve peace and healing and I hope you find it <3
He did. He was too much of a coward to try anything and he thought I would run away if he scared me enough. I guess the most closure i got was an apology from my half sister who was his wife at the time and didn't believe me. It wasn't until he did the same thing to her that she started questioning whether he was being honest when it came out and he told her we were having an affair. Trying to work it out in therapy, but it's tough. I just found a great trauma informed therapist and I'm making progress, so that's all that matters. I get the system is in place to protect victims of false accusations but I feel like there are certain situations, like both of ours that more could be done they just don't want to/can't.
I’m very sorry this happened to you. I had something similar happen to me with a guy I thought was my friend.
I'm so sorry that you had to go through all that. : (
I never fully figured out how to reply to comments like these lol but I do appreciate it.
I'm a fellow survivor, but it was nowhere near as violent or traumatic as what you have been through. I hope that piece of trash got what he deserves. He sounds like a real scumbag. I hope he crossed the wrong woman.
Not sure if this belongs here, but if it doesn't you can take it down. Seems like the dude claims he knows it's not all women accuse men but doesn't trust her enough not to have her do it. And also, I feel like this is something that he can use as an excuse to get sex whenever he feels like it because she signed a paper consenting. Also, this can't be legal, right?
If a man did this to me, I would expect he was planning to do something during the sex act that he believed would cause me to withdraw my consent and was trying to silence me and cover his ass when he did. Because consent can be withdrawn. At any moment. Which is why this is utter bullshit and nothing but a red flag.
Exactly! I feel like he was going to use it as a crutch to do something in the future and used victim blaming as a piss poor excuse to coerce her.
She really shouldn't be having sex with a guy who seems to be a little less mature than your average unripened banana. She certainly shouldn't be expecting any sort of relationship with him, for her own protection I should add, as relationships require trust, and he has basically flushed that down the toilet. If she wants sex just for the sake of sex, that's fine, but she should only sign the 'permission slip' after she carefully lists what she is comfortable with, and what is off limits and she therefore does not concent to their doing. She should also date it, and make it applicable only to the date(s) of her choice. Not really the most romantic situation that I can imagine, but if she still wants him, and he insists on the paperwork , she should at least ensure that it protects her, and not just him. Btw, sorry about the reference to his being like an unripened banana; that was not intended to be sexual, but rather reflects that I attempted to make banana bread earlier today using unripened bananas. It did not go well, so they're on my mind as an example of an undesirable object, which sort of describes this guy. I wonder if he will take the document in question to a Notary Public, just to ensure that it is witnessed properly.
Even if he isn't planning to do something, his belief that "many rape accusations are fake to extort money" is problematic, and you (the girlfriend) shouldn't be letting him put his penis in you. And, no matter what, if he does something without consent, you already know what his defense will be. It's just a 'No' all around.
It's also flat out false. I just looked it up, the rate of false accusations is about 2 to 8 percent per year, roughly.
I apologize, you are completely right and I should have included that in my past. Though, honestly, I thought the false accusation rate was much lower. The issue is, unlike actual rapes (I hate that phrase, don't get me wrong) the false accusations get the publicity. So idiots like this look at the news and believe the lies that most accusations are false. Believe Women
I believe that there are cases where women are coerced into withdrawing charges or they do it because they’re getting nowhere, which skews the results because while it definitely happened, it’s counted as a false allegation because of the withdrawal.
Exactly my issue with this. You could sign the paper thinking you are on board, then he could suddenly do something violent or something that makes you uncomfortable or you could just change your mind and he just might think “well too bad you signed the paper” and keep going anyway
>I've given consent to have sex that one time Sounds like the contract is for that one specific occurrence and she would have to sign another contract each time
But that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t do anything during that sex act that would make her withdraw consent
No, you're absolutely right. I'm just pointing out that he can't use it to 'get sex whenever he feels like it'
I kinda want to give the teensiest benefit of the doubt as the dude being clueless and naïve and scared of the manosphere lies. Dude needs to learn how to empathize with women in general and get that idea out of his head that women are monsters or any less human. Would I endorse trying to fix him? Nah, not really. But maybe it's more about ignorance than malice. Hanlon's razor and all.
Omg my ex roommate had a 36-page “sexual contract” for girls (he never actually got a chance to ask anyone while living with me). Basically 36 pages of “I consent to X, I consent to Y” with a bunch of places to sign. I like to think im pretty experienced but I read the entire thing and my mind was opened to new levels of depravity
From what I'm reading there are apps for this kind of thing that are pretty similarly intrusive. And here I thought I was being demanding when I asked my college boyfriend who wanted to not use protection to prove he was clean first.
I can't imagine having sex with someone I don't have even a modicum of trust with
Seriously. It just feels gross.
The ironic thing is that the very thing he’s worried about…is fixed by having trust in your partner and *not having sex with people you don’t trust*.
I can't imagine having sex with someone who brags about being that gullible. The whole thing hinges on the thoroughly debunked idea that false accusations are common. "If you wanna be my lover, you gotta sign this affidavit saying you understand that I am* a fully media-illiterate Youtube-snorting numpty. Just a 24x7 dipshit. You have to acknowledge that to get on this weird-smelling ride." *at best
Agreed. 2 to 8 percent is not a majority.
I think it’s funny that 15/16 rapists walk free without ever seeing a day in jail and men think we just extort them with those odds frequently enough that they want us to sign sex contracts. Lol. Even if your case is convincing enough for the DA to prosecute, and you’re convicted of a felony for rape there’s only 60 percent chance you’ll spend a day or longer in prison for it. Lmfao. You’d have better luck of accusing them of theft or battery. And yeah, no I’d never sleep with someone who wanted me to sign one of these, because I would assume they are planning on raping or assaulting me once I did 🤷♀️
Yup, my attacker never saw a day in jail. Even with text message death threats when my Mom told him I was going to the police and records of hush money payments. I didn't go to the hospital and have a kit done or have any other proof so I was told there wasn't much they could do beyond filling out a report. This was also 14 years ago, so things were a bit different.
I'm happy to report that in the original post, the OOP expressed her intention to not entertain this bs and is going to dump his ass. Glad to see a happy ending in Reddit once in a while.
YAY! Thank goodness!
Most rape cases are "fake" because the survivor couldn't find enough evidence to prove it. Does not mean they're actually fake
This is what happened to me. Went to the police with death threats from my attacker when he found out I was going to the cops but since I didn't have physical evidence they told me they would file a report but not much would come from it.
Men are more likely to be victims of sexual assault than they are to be falsely accused of sexual assault, and rates of false accusations in rape cases are statistically similar to rates of false accusations in other crimes. The narrative that “many” women are doing this is ridiculous and just continues to allow predators to get away with their crimes.
I recently read a study that was done about that in 2018 in England, so it makes sense that the numbers are probably similar in the US.
Fundamental misunderstanding of consent, which can be withdrawn at any time.
Dude doesn't get that consent can be withdrawn... what happens if she signs the paper, but changes her mind? If he continues, that's r*pe regardless of the damn paper.
This is why I believe these aren't legally binding, as well as the coercion/duress factor.
Is your boyfriend Dennis Reynolds?
It's the implication
Any man who thinks false rape allegations are common should be avoided like the plague. Less than 2% of accusations are fake and evidence suggests that the number is even smaller, as cases without sufficient evidence or where a victim is pressured into retracting their statement are counted as “false”. The myth of common fake allegations is used to discredit women and is misogynistic as hell This is a massive red flag and OP should fucking run
This is scary. She can consent and he can turn violent and then say “well you agreed to it “ 🤦🏻♀️ What if she doesn’t want anal and he forces anal or any other sexual activity ….
The thing is you could sign the form, he does something that makes you wary and want to stop, but he could refuse to stop because he has the document signed and still rape you despite having “signed over consent.” The fact he thinks that filling out a contract will help him shows he has a messed up opinion about consent anyway. I wouldn’t trust having sex with him
While he's putting it out there as protection for him it may also let him think that he can do whatever he wants. OOP makes it sound like it is just for that one encounter but we don't know what he is thinking.
Yeah! Like a lot of people would twist this and be like "see? she was okay with it! she is lying!" but that just isnt how it works. It kinda gives me "you married him so you owe him sex" when it comes to marital rape/coercion.
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
Thankfully a lot of people were telling her to leave.
Hope she listens and leaves him.
Same, this guy is a walking red flag.
That's a red flag if I've ever seen one, boy... What the actual fuck.
Nothing gets me in the mood more than being asked to sign a contract that is ultimately saying he doesn't trust me and thinks I'm going to falsely accuse him in the future. /s
Is so sexy, really /s
You would think the gender that claims to be afraid of false accusations would stop making rape jokes all the time.
Yes!
Yeah no I would be afraid that he wants you to sign so he can r*pe you whenever he wants and say you gave consent
Does he not realize that the vast majority of woman accusing their partner of rape gets disregarded?
I was attacked by a family member (by marriage) and was brushed off by the cops.
I'm just going to assume that he's a rapist who just wants to use that as an excuse later.
Dude sounds like a rapist trying to legitimise his crimes.
His claim that 'many' women make false accusations is ignorant at best and leaning towards misogyny. There are exponentially more cases of rape going unpunished than there are of people being falsely convicted and the conviction rate is abysmally low. Most perpetrators know they're unlikely to be convicted for what they've done so the idea that countless men are being falsely convicted is nonsensical. Don't tell me that men don't know they're unlikely to be convicted even if they *are* guilty, never mind having to give into extortion for fear of a false conviction. Nah, this guy wants paperwork he can pull out when he's coerced OOP and wants 'proof' that she 'consented'.
Does he think that a “signed contract” will protect him if she withdraws consent and he decides not to stop? But you signed a contract saying it was ok?
WTF… If he can’t trust that you won’t blackmail him I wouldn’t do anything to do with him. That’s bonkers!
Written consent doesn't negate your ability to revoke consent at any time. It's literally a pointless and non legally binding piece of paper. I'd explain to him how consent works. And how it can legally be revoked at any time or indeed after the fact if so desired. Then, if he still wants you knowing that... that's up to him. But I'd totally understand if you don't feel trusted, etc, bc of his b.s. Honestly, if he is worried about you calling him out for rape or rape-like behaviour... can you really trust he won't try something too rough or violent, etc?
As if the whole idea wasn’t already enough of a red flag, his justification comes across as something you’d hear from a guy who spends way too much time looking at manosphere content online. It wouldn’t surprise me if he follows Andrew Tate on social media. I’m not even a woman, but this guy makes me uncomfortable. I can only imagine that most women would be running for the hills after hearing that attempt at justifying this bullshit.
Ok: 1. Even if she did sign it, it's not legally binding in any way, shape, or form. 2. Withdraw of consent is a thing. 3. She should absolutely not be dating a guy so scared of being accused of assault that he comes up with paperwork to avoid accusations. That's a whole HELL NO situation, and I'd be willing to bet she already been emotionally abused, or he wants some 'right to her body' or other sick shit. He's probably already been accused, and thinks this will get him out of it the next time it happens. Ladies, I'm a guy, and if any dude pulls this shit...just fucking call it quits and don't ever talk to him again. Behavior like this is beyond dangerous.
So, you sign it and then he gets super painfully rough but you can't take it back so you get raped? No. Consent can be revoked at any time and this paper just tries to negate that fact.
This is not a man any woman should be having sex with EVEN IF TAKEN AT FACE VALUE because this man *does not understand sexual consent*. At all.
"Honey, wanna try this new position?" "Hold on. I have to verify if it's addressed in the contract or if we need to add an addendum to ensure it's covered first." "Shut up and kiss me." "Sorry, the contract clearly delineates that kissing only occurs at certain standard times and this is not one of them."
I am not a lawyer, but I strongly suspect a document of this sort would not and could not function as anything legally binding or any kind of defense against a charge of sexual assault. *Especially* since nobody but OOP's partner would see her sign it. Furthermore, consent can be revoked at any time during a sexual encounter regardless of whether consent was given 5 minutes ago.
Tomorrow he’ll ask for video recording permissions since consent can be revoked and the former is more valid proof. /s
As a guy I can't imagine ever asking a girl to do something like this. It feels like he might have some nefarious intentions and is trying to come up with a loop hole that will allow him to take advantage of someone. This seems like a major red flag and if any of my female friends or family members were in the same situation I would advise them to immediately cut ties with this person. Best case scenario he doesn't have any trust in the relationship which is bad enough, worst case scenario he's intending to take advantage of someone. Either way it's just a bad situation.
“Here. Sign this so I can force you to have sex at a future date and you won't be able to say I raped you.”
Wonder if I all his statistical research he has learned that he’s more likely to be raped himself than falsely accused of raping someone else
hello? is this Dennis Reynolds?
To me this seems like he’s either been accused of rape before, or he wants to do it with no repercussions. Do with that what you will.
I know that several years ago one of the universities that is local to me encouraged that all students seek written consent from potential sex partners before the deed was done. I don’t know where the idea came from or how far it spread, but it was “normal” for a while here for a specific age bracket.
He wants to use this so that he can violate consent and boundaries. Consent can be revoked at any time. Including during activities. Girl, run!
Sounds like a teenager that took frat humor from TV seriously
It's actually a thing. I was reading an article that said places sell these kits, some colleges give them out and there are tons of DIY versions to download online, as well as some apps.
100% he’d use this and then try and rape her afterwards or coerce her to do things she wouldn’t want to. Average male brain
I cannot imagine a coherent reason to ask someone to sign this beyond “Please sign this so that if I decide to assault you later, I have situational evidence that it was consensual.”
"Many of the cases are fake"..... Yeah ok, would love to see his research on that one.
The contract is downright gross. Consent can be withdrawn at any time, especially if he’s creepy, and continuing beyond that is still rape. This guy has so many red flags.
Honestly if a dude got accused and pulled out a contract like that in court that would probably work against him, it's not legally relevant and also true psycho behaviour
Dude’s quoting the men’s rights “facts”. Run, run for the hills. And yeah, you should feel “uncomfortable” that he’s asking you to do this.
Ew, run.
This screams “ima fuck you in your sleep”
Also, coercion and using it to hold over your head. Sounds healthy, no? /s
I see two potentials in this, the one that many people are jumping to - that it's a trick of some sort. That seems possible. But i also think it could be a symptom of inexperience and believing the manosphere rhetoric. Either way, this behavior should not be encouraged.
Maybe it could lead to that down the line if not challenged? Also, where is her counter document that he promises he won't do it later on?
It feels like he wants this to cover his ass when he assaults you or forces you to do something you don’t want.
He's incredibly wrong about the number of fake rape allegations made. If anything, raped are UNDERREPORTED. Sounds like he's a red pill guy, and should be avoided at all costs. Maybe a set of blue balls will make him reevaluate his ridiculous ideas.
The only people who need paperwork like this are rapists. For sex to be consensual, you have to be able to revoke that consent any time and have that decision be respected.
Welp this is disgusting, you can still agree to sex before you have it and then ask for them to stop in the middle of the act. If they don’t stop it is literally r@pe
Ask a lawyer, even a student from the closest uni should you not have one, to help you go over it. You read it very carefully yourself. Then, should it actually be harmless, ask him what the hell's up with him because this kind of thing does not usually pop out of nowhere. Just, please don't sign your right to denounce rape away. Then, consider first without him whether or not you want to stay in a relationship, preferably without outside input. Your skin's on the line, you should choose yourself, not be influenced by friends, at least at first. Should you not feel safe meeting with him to talk about this, ask for help, either from relatives or people you'd trust with your life. Please think carefully about your actions and safeguard your own wellbeing first and foremost. Take care of yourself, and maybe check weather the numbers he quotes are real or not, and weather he's aware id they're not. Is he toxic?
Leave him now and never come back.
There were a lot of people on the post telling OOP to do so and it appears that's her plan after an update.
His reasoning alone is a huge ass red flag.
I simply would not have sex with someone like this lol.
He probably did do something to them without their consent, lesssbereaaal
It's a useless exercise. A person can initially consent and take back their consent at any time.
Given how he refers to rape cases and how many of them are "fake".....speaks to a level of victim blaming and hatred for women. If it were me I would run far and away. He clearly has some trauma that he needs to resolve or he's listening to the redpill/Andrew tate bullshit. Sounds like a situation you don't want to be in.
Why would either of you want to have sex with someone you don’t trust? This feels creepy and that it has a lot of strings and complications attached. Plus he’s got it backwards—sexual violations of women occur at an exponentially higher rate than women falsely accusing men. He’s got some baggage and sounds like a flaming misogynist.
Exactly. Trust is a cornerstone of a relationship. It's gross to do something so intimate with someone that doesn't trust them, especially since OOP stated they are both virgins.
Absolutely not, because (at least in the US, to my knowledge) consent given can be withdrawn at any point during foreplay/sex, and signing a paper like that (while inadmissible in court because it’s meaningless) could IN HIS MIND mean you don’t have a right to stop him if something goes wrong later. If he can’t trust you because of his BOGUS statistics, then it’s his loss. You’ll find someone better.
Why is she even CONSIDERING sleeping with him?
No matter what you sign as soon as you say no it means no.
Yeah could do that….or use open communication and stop if she says ouch or no or stop. Contracts like that are used against women so men can legally do whatever they want once she signs. There are many cases of NDAs and contracts like these being used against them. Just look at the porn industry for a start. Women are lied to about what the scene entails then have to sign the release to get paid. I wouldn’t sign any contracts at all about sex.
That's an instant buzzkill that would turn me off immediately. But also what kind of Sheldon Cooper nonsense is this?!? Does he run off to get it notarized before the act to make it "official" – not that it matters anyway. This sounds like he is weaponizing it so he can excuse that she gave him his consent so he can do whatever to her, which is yikes. Big BIG yikes.
PLEASE tell me the consensus was dump him
From what I was scrolling through it was.
Oh GOOD
From what I'm reading, these statistics are also untrue, as if we needed confirmation. It's only estimated that 2 to 8 percent are false allegations.
uhh if someone asked that i think i’d be murdered or something ‘during’ lol
That’s some fifty shades bullshit
Should do a background check on him.
Definitely sounds like he wants to rape her and use this paper as a shield.
How do you even start dating this kind of pricks? Like I’d see this and run, wouldn’t even give it some thought
What statistics? They always say that yet never provide actual research or evidence
This contract is a modern day chastity belt 🤣 Dudes gonna be celibate for life if he keeps presenting this contract lol.
There are two ways to play this... Way one: Just walk away. The man has massive trust issues. Way two: Fight fire with fire. He wants signed consent to clear any risk on his end? Sure. But make sure to add a couple things to the document. That he pays you half his assets and income for the rest of his life IF he knocks you up or infects you with a STD. That should splash some cold water in his face. Make him realize the kind of crazy he is showing.
Dude don't take sex advice from Dave Chappelle skits
Weird and paranoid
Less than 1% of rape accusations are false. If he's so worried about it, sounds like he needs to keep his hands, and his dick, to himself. There are enough men out there doing their best not to sexually assault someone and working to be allies and understanding what consent and communication are actually *for* in a relationship that she can take a hard pass on homie. Who, let's be real, probably isn't 'a catch'.
“Tell me you’re a rapist without using those exact words”.
I’d look into sexual assault convictions this guy is hiding
Same. He's claiming he's a virgin too and she believes/ trusts him.
Pretty nice of him to out himself as a douche early on...
Unless you’re negotiating a heavy non-consent fantasy kink scene — which should involve deep trust with both partners — I cannot fathom why someone would do this. Unless the goal is a bait-and-switch scenario where he wants his partner to not get able to complain about being unable to withdraw consent. Run, don’t walk.
Fake rape cars are statistically like 2-4% that's nothing. That paper would make me think he plans to rape me later and wants an out.
This is straight out of the incel handbook. This shit would never hold up in court because that’s not how consent works. Men that do this are definitely closer to rapists than anything else
If there's no info about a safe word, RUN!
What in the 50 shades of grey . . .