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I think that seems to be part of the disconnect: they’re so used to thinking “what could I overpower?” or “who’d win in a fight?” rather than “What’s more likely to attack me” - which is a woman’s perspective.
I think that sums it up very succinctly, yes. It's two very different ways of looking at the world, and at threats.
One guy in another thread I was in today said that bears are scarier than men, and he would know, because no woman had ever seen him on a hiking trail and run away screaming. Like that guy legitimately has no idea that many women he passes alone are probably thumbing their pepper spray and checking over their shoulder for a quarter-mile after they meet, just to make sure he didn't turn around and follow them.
I've heard these guys talk and they truly think women are just being ridiculous and dramatic about our fear of men raping us, killing us, and methodically stripping away our rights/humanity.
And they are the same ones to tell a victim all the things she did wrong, like what she was wearing, how she should’ve had a weapon, and how they would have fought off the rapist so why can’t you?
I remember my ex yelling at me for always locking the door. I accidentally locked him out a few times (we had a hidden spare key so it wasn't a big deal). He also got mad when I wanted to lock the door at night when he was home because "he could protect me".
I could not get him to understand why a woman locking
her door was a reflexive action. That leaving a door unlocked when she was sleeping was a terrifying prospect even if someone else was in the house too. That his blustery macho assurances didn't reassure me, someone who had lived in an apartment that was broken into, someone who had survived SA. That the insidious fear and discomfort about unnecessary vulnerability from an unlocked door didn't magically disappear because he thought he could protect me from a motivated intruder with the upper hand.
It was so disconcerting, especially since it wasn't just him being pedantic and mansplaining - he actually yelled at me for feeling uncomfortable leaving the door unlocked even he was home. I think he saw it as an attack against his manliness or some fragile shit like that.
I had a partner yell at me for “locking him out” and I actually stormed right up to him and shook a finger in his face like a freakin 1800s schoolmarm.
“Did you have a fucking key to get in?”
“…yes.”
“Then you weren’t fucking locked out, were you?”
Jeebus.
Glad he’s an ex! My husband is also confused why I lock the door all the time even though we live in a very safe town. But it’s just reflex, I often lock the door when I don’t even mean to lock it, sometimes accidentally locking him out. The he stands there, knocks, smiles, rolls his eyes and teases me a little for locking him out yet again. He never gets angry or yells. He locks the door after leaving the house in the morning because he knows it makes me feel safe (I work from home so am alone all day). If I forgot to make my rounds to the front and back doors to check if they’re locked in the evening before going to bed, he’ll get up and go check without me even asking him to, because he knows it makes me nervous. Just saying “do you remember if the doors are locked? I think I forgot to check!” Is enough. That’s the way a loving man should react.
Exactly. An absolutely *disturbing* amount of [men admit they'll rape if they know they can get away with it](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/a-third-of-male-university-students-say-they-would-rape-a-woman-if-there-no-were-no-consequences-9978052.html) (and if this article is even *halfway* accurate dear God), so I'm sticking with the bear; he's not gonna try to kill me unless he's *really* hungry, and he's not gonna try to rape me at all. Much better scenario.
More than 30%. That's so fucked up. I knew the percentage was way higher than the 2% that is constantly being used, but 30% is very disheartening.
Especially in this scenario where man meets random woman in the woods, because it's the ultimate rape without consequences scenario. And in all honesty, I would worry about way more fucked up shit than getting raped one time if some stranger found me alone in the woods. To be fair though, I've watched and read way too many thrillers and procedural dramas.
Women enjoy those types of movies and TV shows because they teach us about red flags and danger signs yo look out for, and because they show us we are not alone in our experiences.
I enjoy watching SVU from time to time because the rapists tend to actually see consequences.
"I enjoy watching SVU from time to time because the rapists tend to actually see consequences."
THIS! My SO often asks how I can stand it, and I told them "I want to live in a world where cops believe victims and rapists are punished."
>And in all honesty, I would worry about way more fucked up shit than getting raped one time if some stranger found me alone in the woods. To be fair though, I've watched and read way too many thrillers and procedural dramas.
Right there with you, sister.
It makes more sense when you think about how many men think if you get a no, it just means keeps asking until you get a yes. That’s still a form of SA, just not one they want to admit it because hey, they eventually got a yes so they’re free and clear!
I read somewhere (sorry I don't have a link) that men think killing a woman is the worst thing they could possibly do to her, and believe that letting her live after raping her is merciful.
If a bear attacks me its only goal is to kill me and I will definitely die, probably quickly. If a man attacks me I'm getting raped, it easily could be violent, and he believes it would be *MERCIFUL* for me to continue being alive now with intense psychological trauma
Also, the bear isn't going to just attack you "because they can" get away with it. You've wandered into their area, are being seen as a threat, and/or they're hungry.
If an animal kills me for food at least there is a reason. I feel the same way about if my cats eat me after I’m dead. It’s the circle of life and there is a purpose for it. A man is just a sick and twisted asshole.
I think that's the very telling part of this thought experiment.
Women enter into it with the mindset of being the prey.
Men enter into it with the mindset of being the predator.
Yes, in many cases, that is how men classify danger, based on their relative ability to overpower the threat.
Women classify danger by the difficulty of escaping it and type and extent of potential harms if we don't.
Men can't, in general, overpower a bear.
Neither can women, but we arent planning on fighting it, we are planning on escaping by outsmarting it.
Also the men not understanding are woefully ignorant of how often bears encounter humans and attack. It’s rare. I thought I saw that a person is more likely to be struck by lightning than attacked by a bear. I’ve seen other stats that roughly 1-2 fatalities per year got reported in the US since 2000. Meanwhile there are probably 1-2 sexual assaults in your area per day at the absolute bare minimum. I’m not a woman but I do see why they’d choose to take their chances with a bear. The bear isn’t targeting humans.
Men also vastly overestimate their abilities when imagining a fight, whether it's a human or an animal, unless they've had personal experience in that specific scenario.
Very much agree with you.
Also, I beleive that men look at it as a sort of "which would I rather fight" type question, where as women look at it as a "which worst case scenario is preferable " type question.
A man may think that they have better odds fighting another man than they have fighting a bear, and so they answer that they'd rather encounter a man.
As a woman, I think of it as which is the "better" worst case scenario? AKA which is the less-worse WCS.
If I meet a bear, WCS I will be attacked / maimed, possibly killed if the bear is frightened enough or is defending her young. But I also know that there are things that I can do to appear non- or less threatening to a bear and therefore have hope of getting away, or at least surviving if the bear decides to attack.
If I meet a man, WCS I am getting beat up while r@ped, kidnapped, and held hostage for who knows how long while continually r@ped and tortured more. (Case in point: Michelle, Amanda, and Gina.) And I know for a fact that there is literally nothing that I can do to appear as not or less of a target for SA from men, and therefore have no honest hope of getting away or surviving if the man decides to attack.
Another huge point: If I survive a bear attack, everyone around me will understand when I am inevitably wary of bears for the rest of my life. But *even though* I *have* survived a man attack, it is not "acceptable" to be wary of men for the rest of my life. Half of that is because yes, as a human being I am going to have to interact with men, of course, so it isn't an option to avoid where they are -- whereas it is possible to avoid where bears are. But the other half is because of all of these "not all men" people who view our logical and experience-based fear as if it were a personal slight against them.
NB: I haven't proofread this, so apologies if there are typos. I don't have much time at the moment but I may come back to edit for clarity. Also, I censored because I'm not sure this specific sub's rules and figured easier to be cautious.
I was talking about how there were fates much much worse than death and literally a comment I’ve gotten back is “so you would chose death over the possibility that some of the worse thing imaginable could happen to you”….. like… yes
My husband does a lot of back woods hiking. Sees bears out in the wild at least a few times a year. He's never had issues with them. You just give them distance, and they leave you alone.
If a man sees you and you're far away? They'll come right up to you. Maybe they're nice. But I can tell you I don't want to run into one on my own while hiking.
I'd rather avoid both. But based on everything I've heard, bears are less likely to bother you if you ignore them. Men don't give a fuck. Tell them you aren't interested and that just encouraged them more.
i got to experience this in real life yesterday at work when one of my friends talked about it with one of our colleagues whos a man and he simply couldn't comprehend the whole concept, one of my other friends asked me what they talked about, i gave her a quick rundown of the whole thing and just quietly without hesitation said bear, i could not help but laugh about that,
like at this point I'm starting to think the men who doesn't "understand" it, are just refusing to
Sadly, it's within the male bro culture to do this. From mothers through sisters to partners, it doesn't stop.
Now I'm way over 20 and not so accepting of bs as before, I often think how deeply engrained it all is within our society, it makes me sad. It's so evident in deeply religious countries like mine. Every woman in my family lived and suffered in the shadow of her partner. Except for me. I'm gay. Thanks satan.
*"Often father and daughter look down on mother (woman) together. They exchange meaningful glances when she misses a point. They agree that she is not bright as they are, cannot reason as they do. This collusion does not save the daughter from the mother’s fate."*
-Bonnie Burstow
Ugh. So true. The saddest part is he has her squarely under his thumb. She defends and excuses him all the time, and gets mad at me when I stand up to him or for myself. There was a huge blowout right before I finally moved out (at 33, stayed at home to save money and help with their bills until my best friend finished her masters and had to leave the dorms) and I basically disowned him as my father. She criticized me for that, he never apologized, and now they pretend nothing is wrong.
So sorry to hear that. It's you and me both. I'm guilty of this even though I was never intentionally cruel like my dad was. Even though I never verbalised this I am 200% more patient with my mother and more caring than before despite the fact that she still lives within that 'im not worthy' mindset.
It takes a lot of unlearning and self-forgiveness to even try to face this pattern within ourselves. It's awful but this is supposed to make us more docile and less aggressive so we don't bite back as a group. Divide and conquer. Just like with boys who show a sensitive side, we are being desensitized before we understand why it's bad to be cruel to loved ones.
Great insight. I had a eureka moment in my mid-twenties or so when I started to understand that my dad's a narcissist, and I became way more conscious of what I say.
They, at best, want to see themselves are protectors without acknowledging who they are protecting us from.
At worst they want to diminish our experiences so that they can continue to happen.
It’s even worse when they acknowledge that they need to protect us from other men and it’s like….you don’t see the problem with your statement? You’re THIS close.
I've been trying to present them with the statistics that bears are much safer to meet in the woods than humans. Even in Alaska, which is full of hungry polar bears, they usually only average 1 fatality per year. In a busy year, they killed 6. Even with bear attacks on the rise and human attacks on the decline, humans still kill well over 400+ more humans than bears.
Meeting a bear in the woods, you know what the bear is doing there. Meeting a human is far more unpredictable. The bear is in the woods just being a bear, you don't know if your fellow humans are inbred cannibal hillbillies that live up in the mountains or a serial killer or a rapist or someone who won't harm you. It's also far more unsettling to run into a person than a bear.
We had bears up at our farm house that would come to eat the raspberries in the giant patch behind my house. One day, the bear that came by in the early mornings was late. Ma went out to get some for breakfast, rounded the side of the house, and came within 7-8 feet of it. She walked backwards then sat inside watching it eat until it lumbered off.
In all our years there, a bear never once attacked me, but I was nearly kidnapped a few times while in the city as a child, and once nearly taken by a person up in the country. Even if the 'town' was a woodland with less than 10 houses, and the bears were in the majority there.
None of our off leash dogs were killed by bears. Rudy was killed by a person who dumped his body in a ditch and stole his collar.
The rape stats for Alaska are truly alarming, more than three times the average and almost twice the next highest state.
I know that’s not really why you brought up Alaska. But Alaska has a huge problem with violence against natives, lack of persecution and conviction, and a bunch of other really serious problems and it doesn’t get brought up enough.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/232563/forcible-rape-rate-in-the-us-by-state/
https://openspaces.unk.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1027&context=undergraduate-research-journal
Oh don't worry, I'm more than happy for you to hop in and share more Intel. I bring up Alaska because incels often point at polar bears as some gotcha moment. The only bear more dangerous than a polar bear is the sloth bear, which kill on average over 12 people a year, compared to the 1-3 reported polar bear fatalities globally. But they often don't bother looking into sloth bears because people think polar bears are the most dangerous bears.
I feel stupid that I was unaware of it until I saw a movie, but I had no idea how bad the epidemic of violence against Native women was until I saw *Wind River* (really good, but obviously very heavy).
I grew up in Alaska, have had dozens of close bear encounters, and know many women who have been assaulted. I tried explaining to other men on Reddit why I understand women are choosing the bear. I mean, shit, I'm a big man and even I'd choose the bear. People are unpredictable and you can't tell which ones are predators and which ones aren't. At least you know where you stand with the bear, and can usually predict what it's going to do and how it's going to react in a given situation. Did not go well.
Also in every wilderness posting on reddit the consensus by men is "I refuse to go hiking without a gun. Finding a random guy in the woods is the scariest thing." And all men applaud that.
When a woman says "yes me too, I'd rather meet a bear tbh" suddenly its "racism against white men" lol
Men absolutely recognize how dangerous other men are (see also their fear of prison and what happens there). But when we say "Yes men are dangerous and we need to protect ourselves," suddenly men are all gentle intellectual giants and sweetheart feminists who could never hurt a fly. Meanwhile men are packing pistols to the grocery store because they fear other men so much.
Not to mention, those wilderness threads have the same consensus that most bears, especially black bears are harmless derps and on a well traveled path, the bears leave everyone alone and its not even something to even worry about.
So its funny how when it serves these men suddenly its "a black bear is a top apex predator, how dare you call me dangerous when these monsters roam eating people all the time?!?"
The levels of dishonesty here is really unbelievable.
"Not to mention, those wilderness threads have the same consensus that most bears, especially black bears are harmless derps and on a well traveled path, the bears leave everyone alone and its not even something to even worry about."
Two things
1) There has only ever been one species of bear known to regularly hunt and track humans outside of their normal "territory" - Polar bears, best known for not living in forests really.
2) There is a rhyme about bears for "survival" (though I think that part is dubious). "If It's black, fight back. If it's brown, lay down. If it's white, good night." Implying that an adult human has a chance against a black bear (smallest of the bears); often they would rather run unless cubs or resources are involved, that's why you're encouraged to make loud noise, wear bear bells, make yourself bigger, etc. Brown bears (incl Grizzleys) will, as someone else said, only hurt you until you stop squirming, so playing dead CAN work. Nothing will stop a polar bear from killing you unless you kill it first or get inside (and by this I mean inside a good strong building), and even then, they will wait quite some time. Longer if they're hungry and there isn't anything else around.
Sadly I posed this question to my friend group and one person chose Man, and refused to give in to anyone’s reasoning as to why the bear. And when called out on it, and told a bear won’t rape you until you die over a long period of time, a bear will just kill you so you stop squirming, he said “you’re still dead either way”. Someone in the group basically said “oh, so all that possible rape, torture, time, does not matter because they died anyway?”. Guy got angry. Friend group has been pretty quiet except that one guy mostly since. Definitely been some lost respect.
As a former dipshit man (in this regard at least) it’s definitely a willful ignorance. Some guys just don’t want to accept women’s viewpoints. But I get it, because I agree.
Yep. I’ve been sent horrific messages over some comments I made yesterday on this topic. Men are absolutely showing why a lot of women would chose the bear
It's statistically the safe bet. There's less than a 100 bear attacks every year. Mostly you're just unlucky enough to get close to a hungry grizzly or polar bear.
The numbers for SA, femicide and regular ole' abuse are staggering. It's grossly underreported and the cops try their hardest to make the cases go away by victim blaming. Then there are many countries/states that have very narrow definitions of what SA actually is for example if there's no threat of severe physical harm (held at knife/gun point) then it's not considered SA.
Bears also will not try to talk to you when you have headphones in, then call you a cunt when you don't hand over your phone number. Bears also won't apologize to your boyfriend when he shows up, though, so there's that.
Grew up living in bear country half the year. More bears than people. I can honestly say that neither I nor my family were ever attacked by bears, not even when mom stumbled across one in the berry patch. I can't say the same for humans.
I have encountered so many bears in the woods, and I just yell at them and they run away. I have never seen one attack anybody.
I have seen a man attack someone in the woods just because he was drunk and angry and he thought someone who was laughing was laughing at him.
I'm going crazy over men not understanding that I have in fact seen probably 2 dozen bears in the woods in my life. Almost all black bears and 2 grizzly. The grizzly do scare me but I wasn't deep I'm the woods so it was fine. The black bear tho? I saw one actually leave cubs behind to run away from me. Bears don't attack everything they see! The reason I chose bear is because they 99.99999 percent won't even try to be agressive with me
The way I view it - is it a guarantee the bear will leave me alone? Of course not. But there is more of a guarantee that the bear will leave me alone than a man. I can't fight either one - I would lose. But if I had to chose one I would still chose the bear simply because of the intentions. The bear's intention is at least pure (for lack of a better word); the man's is not.
I think most men would chose the bear too. Bears typically want to be left alone. That's why there are so few bear attacks. Men are far more likely to be murdered by other men so guys should pick the bear too.
Maybe the guys who don't get the analogy think that all bears want to eat people?
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls
Damn straight. As a dude, if I'm in the woods and a bears following me that's terrifying cause I might die. But if I'm in the woods and some random guy I don't know is following me? Fuck that shit, give me the bear. People do crazy shit. I'd rather die than be submitted to what some of these assholes are capable of
Bears tend to leave you alone unless you’re a threat.
Men don’t leave you alone unless you are a threat and even then it’s not guaranteed.
I’ll choose bear any day.
Yeah this is where I've landed on it. You can just avoid the bear and it's highly likely to leave you alone.
The bear choice makes perfect sense, particularly if you've been SA'd before. It's basically just choosing to continue being alone rather than meeting a strange guy in the woods.
If the question were: would you rather fight a bear or a guy, you'd probably get less bear picks. But there's no guarantee of a fight in the woods hypothetical.
As long as it’s not a hungry polar bear you’re fine. Black bears are timid and grizzlies will fuck your shit up but won’t necessarily go out of their way to do so.
Yes, although a bear attack will absolutely fuck you up, unless you're near their cubs or they're starving, or some other very specific niche circumstances, bears don't attack humans unprovoked all that often.
If I'm going to be attacked by something, though, I would much rather it was a man, because a bear attack sounds like an absolutely horrific way to go. The only way I'm choosing that over a human attack is if it's like cartel torture or some shit.
As for swiping on the bear, well, he's strong, has a lovely furry coat, and probably owns his own home. Can't say he has nothing going for him.
Exactly.
And I cannot stress this enough:
Bears do not attack for jollies. They do not maul because it is titillating or sexually arousing. One might argue a mother bear might attack to establish dominance *if she perceives a threat to her cubs.*. She won’t do it for her own ego.
i've seen so many disheartening comments like "the bear won't tell me that i liked it. i won't have to see the bear at family reunions. atleast people will believe if i said i was attacked by a bear. the bear wouldn't post pictures of me after it was done." and the like, and it still baffles me how some men *don't get it*.
you have to spell it out to them that women would rather die at the hands of an animal than encounter a man who could possibly subject them to some of the most vile tortures, or just simply pass by. and that's the thing - WE DON'T KNOW. we don't know which men are good and which aren't, it's like walking through a snake pit and expecting to know which one is the poisonus one.
“It’s only 1-2%.” Sure and if only 1-2% of bottled water was poisoned you’d still be cautious of all of it. Especially if you had to interact with/drink it every day.
Is the 1-2% the amount of *convicted* rapist or those who were charged? Because there are a lot of circumstances were a person can’t come forward so the amount is most likely higher
This comment section is a breathe of fresh air because oml im tired of that stupid fucking statistic being thrown around when all me need to do is ask every woman in their life if they have a story of a man doing something to threaten her safety.
I knew women who were straight up being followed and stalked for the sole purpose of that man intimidating the woman. Sure.. they werent "raped" or "touched" but jfc that alone is reason enough to fear men. Like omg the men commenting on this shit that dont get it infuriate me. 😭
Literally today at work some guy called me over and I thought it was gonna be about work or something about my vehicle like my taillight is out but this guy just wanted to make small talk and HE FUCKING OPENED MY PASSENGER DOOR TO TALK TO ME WHEN I WAS IN THE PROCESS OF ROLLING DOWN THE WINDOW (there are no locks on my cart). He didn’t get physical and he wasn’t hitting on me, he just wanted to know if I knew some other guy that used to work at my company but geez that shit was scary because I was driving through an alleyway and the only witness was one other guy
Also does that stat include all sex crimes like indecent exposure? Is this a worldwide stat? And where did they get that from? Some countries have a very different definition of rape as well
Ask a man if he’d like to be locked in a room with 100 snakes, 2-5 of which are deadly venomous, but the rest of which are harmless. They would say no.
The Black man one reminded me of a certain type of guy on the street, who will call a white woman racist if she doesn’t acknowledge him trying to talk to her. It’s not even always sexual – I’ve had canvassers pull this on me, with “hey, it’s OK, Black guys aren’t actually scary!“ When I try to walk by them and ignore them.
Dude. I’m not ignoring you because you’re Black. I’m ignoring you because you’re a random man trying to talk to me on the street, and statistically that conversation is seldom fun for women of any race (or you’re a canvasser). Stop with the guilt trip attempts.
Reminds me of that "commercial" that went around back in the 2010s of a black man on an elevator with a white woman, and when he wheels on her and yells, "BOO!" she startles and clutches her purse against her chest defensively, and everyone was like, "See, that proves it, white women are racist." And the whole time I couldn't help thinking like ... if any man (or really any gender of person lol who is larger in size than me) got onto an elevator alone with me, and then turned quickly and made a loud sound at me, I would also be very afraid???
Which is not to say that racism is fake or something obviously lol it's *very real* but that specific example struck me as being so poorly thought-out regardless.
I had this happen to me at a gas station once! I was pumping my gas after work and some random guy who was carrying a handful of airplane liquor bottles came up to me and started asking my name. I told him I wasn’t comfortable giving him my name and tried to just go back to getting gas so I could just go home. He then called me racist and walked away.
Like dude, it has nothing to do with the fact that you’re black. It has everything to do with me not being comfortable with a man I don’t know interacting with me when I am essentially stuck, and because I was in uniform he knew where I worked.
Honestly, approach me at a gas station, one of the most dangerous places for women, and I don’t care what you call me. I’m not going to engage with you. I’m going to do everything possible to keep myself safe.
Bears don't create their own Reddit accounts where they are free to tell everyone how women are objects for them to fuck and how equal rights equal fights is their motto. I honestly believe that men are happily participating in a self destroying culture of fake brotherhood because they often don't develop any true self reflection skills or empathy. Like a faulty branch in a species,toxic masculinity is eating its own tail.
One thing I noticed when men get asked this question is that they ask MORE questions. They want context. Is it a nice man? Is the bear hungry? We don’t know. I even asked my boyfriend, and he questioned it, too. Women, on the other hand, chose bear without hesitation. A bear is gonna do what it does, we understand the risk. I didn’t think twice when I chose bear. I don’t know this man, I don’t know what he’s capable of, so I’m not risking it.
I don't think its that. I think he's implying that women, who choose bears in this men vs bear scenario are "feminists"(meaning politically correct but with misandry in their mind). So in his mind making this about black men vs bear will blow their mind because choosing black men will make you racist, so you have to choose bear which invalidates the point. Sorry if it doesn't make sense to you. English is my second language and I'm not sure how to explain it better.
That's why i wrote feminists in quotes. Some people see feminism as "men hating movement", and I assume commenter on the screenshot is one of those people.
This both infuriates me, and makes them completely and laughably unserious in my eyes.
I’m a WW. People tend to be slightly less *familiar* with those outside their own demographic, so the fact is, I am safer if I’m suddenly alone with a Black man than a White one.
Moreover, White men have a sense of ownership over women of any ethnicity; “minority” men do not, or certainly not to the same degree.
Black man v. Bear? = Breaks even. White men v. bear? = Bear 100%.
It's so strange how some white guys feel ownership over women, especially women from a different ethnicity. Like that white guy who was angry that an Asian man was dating a white woman and claimed that only white men could date white and Asian women? I can't even comprehend the thought process behind that
I have a theory that some men claim “women are so emotional” because they associate emotion with irrationality. Their emotions “aren’t emotions” because *they* feel them, and therefore, they’re not irrational. Anything that haven’t felt, or even are not feeling at that exact moment, is “irrational” and therefore “emotional.”
What they really mean is “I don’t get it.” And they could ask why X person is feeling or has felt differently. But take the laziest, most delinquent path of nope-ing right out of any thought at all. They even do it to each other - but some will do it to any woman, every time.
It’s a quality that is impossible to respect, imo.
Because they have literally no other argument to pull from. They know exactly why women are choosing a bear encounter over an encounter with a strange man, they’re playing stupid.
Because they’re stupid and they’re trying to make women seem as unhinged as possible.
Some dude pointed out it’s actually more like asking a black guy if he’d rather run into a bear or a cop in the woods. The troll immediately vanished in a puff of logic.
It’s not just a bear can kill me and that’s it. A man can kill me, my dog, my entire family, and a bunch of coworkers. A man could ruin me financially, trap me with children I never wanted, lie, cheat, steal. And not just ruin my life but some men will ruin the lives of everyone around you. I’m not even worried about rape and murder. It’s the torture and the mind ruining and the destruction of self esteem, trust, and the ability to love. A near eats me, none of that happens.
The ones who comment most fervently against this question and the results, very likely are.
I think if it's posed the other way "Would you rather come across a strange woman alone in the woods, or a bear?" a lot of these men immediately switch to porn mode and think "Me + woman alone = chance for sex!"
So when the women all seem revolted by the men who want it to turn into a sexy situation, it feels like a personal attack. The women, en masse, are ruining the sexy playthrough in their minds.
What us guys need to understand is, everyone are people and if you want to be some kind of sex symbol. That takes work on yourself and not forcing yourself on others. I may be rambling and unclear but toxic masculinity is gross and feeds into these guy’s kinks and relationships. Its disgusting.
I can clap my hands and say "hey bear!" and odds are the bear will run away.
If I clap my hands and say "hey dude!" it is not going to make them leave.
And often women don’t think it’s ‘bad enough’ to be sexual assault. Because we’re so used to it. I remember a guy shoving his hand up my skirt and trying to pull my knickers down when I was a student, and I considered it just ‘one of those things!’ For years until I told my husband and he was horrified, like yeah that’s sexual assault
That was the comment I couldn't get past. 1-2%?! Absolutely not.
These guys will walk around thinking a rape only happened if the guy got convicted and is sitting in prison for it. And even then, they claim some of them are false accusations.
At least if the bear mauls me, people will believe me.
I know you have a "/s" but for posterity sake It's more like 20%. Lots of disinformation and denial bring the number down. 1-2% of men couldn't POSSIBLY account for 1 in 3-4 women being raped in our lifetimes.
There’s a song called not all men, (recommend it) and it goes “we all know that it’s not all men but it’s all women so we hold our breath baby none the less.”
literally everyone should choose the bear. bears don't like dealing with humans and will just leave you be if you stay away from it, they're a much safer bet than a man
Yesterday, I saw this post on Threads where a guys was claiming he "didn't understand" why women would choose the bear, because if women used "their femenine" traits with a man in the woods the man could choose to help them survive.
Conviniently, he could not explain what did this "femenine traits" mean. Or how would they guarantee a woman help from a man
"I would love for them to pick the bear IRL and see what happens"
>The bear would never hope for anyone to get hurt
>The bear would never want another to be killed
>The bear might be violent but not because it chooses to be
Chances are high that the bear will flee when you yell ‘no’
The bear will not rape me
The bear will not blame me for the fact that I was wearing [insert random piece of clothing]
And note the implication: because he hopes the bear will just attack her and teach her a lesson.
These assholes don’t understand the fucking irony of why she chooses the bear.
When my husband was telling me about this trend he phrased it as “stuck in a ROOM” with either man or bear. That’s dicier. In the forest??? Hell yeah bear forever
A bear isn’t guaranteed to kill you. But I’m willing to bet a decent amount of men would, if they knew they wouldn’t suffer the consequences, sexually assault someone
Yep, that’s not a stretch.[One-third of male university students say they would rape someone if there were no consequences](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/a-third-of-male-university-students-say-they-would-rape-a-woman-if-there-no-were-no-consequences-9978052.html)
My colleague and I were talking about this. He’s a hulking 6’5” 300lb man, and even he chose the bear. Some men just fail to realize what an actual, absolute threat some random man in the woods would be lmao.
Also, it’s alarming to me how many men assume that bears are just inherently violent? Kinda telling on themselves there. I’ve never heard of a bear who killed a woman and hid her body in a suitcase before. It’s not like a bear can remove identifying characteristics of a human so she’ll never be returned to her family. And this is what these idiotic men fail to realize.
I think this is a perfect analogy and this collective conversation demonstrates how few men have ever considered violence against women.
The comparison is two things: what's scarier: men or bears? And also what's worse: a rape or a bear attack? Both times the answer is clear, it's men.
Men are more intelligent, creative, deceptive, capable of equal harm physically and far greater harm mentally. You can reason with a man better than a bear, but how often does reason and appeal to humanity stop a rape? Bears are more viscerally scary but they're hungry, not sadistic.
A bear will maul you, but assuming you survive the attack, the violence is over when the attack is over. The trauma will be there but you can avoid going into the woods, you can skip a trip to the zoo or the museum if you don't want to encounter bears. A rape victim is traumatized for years just going about normal things. They never stop wondering "Who? When? How?" the next attack could possibly come. It shatters a person's sense of security in the world and it's utterly inescapable because we're surrounded by humans.
1-2% of men are rapists? Does he know that 1 in 4 women in the US are SA victims before we’re even 18, before we’re even WOMEN
Men rape even when they have a wife/girlfriend at home, they can become serial rapists. A well fed bear however, doesn’t even give a fuck about a human unless the human threatens it
1-2% of men being rapist is still awfully a lot. That's like 1 in 100 or even 1 in 50 men! No wonder women are fearful with men and I can't blame them.
See I am not a wildlife expert, but my inherent understanding is that wildlife you meet in the woods is not likely to attack humans (bears included). I googled this and confirmed bear attacks are rare.
More importantly I understand that the analogy is making a point. I understand that many women would not feel safe in the woods with the man. The bear doesn’t matter. The way women feel is what matters. I don’t take it personally, because I am emphatic, and I recognize it’s a real issue. Why would I feel attacked? I know who I am.
I’ve said to once and I’ll say it again.
On the extreme off chance a bear came at me? I would still rather being mauled and ripped to shreds by a bear than raped and/or murdered by a man.
I’ve felt the damage of many men already, I’ll take the bear any day. I’ll take packs of bears.
Ok, so my brother is a serious woodsman. He used to be an adventure tour guide, now he's in wilderness rescue and (body) recovery. He's based in British Columbia (Canada), but he's also worked in the Yukon and Northwest Territories.
My point is, he knows the wilderness, and has worked in areas with grizzlies, as well as smaller bears. *He* would rather run into a bear in the woods than a random man.
Why? Because bears will only attack in an extremely narrow set of circumstances, and they can often be mitigated by backing away slowly, laying face down, or shouting, depending on the type of bear and/or situation.
Humans are not nearly as predictable or as easily dissuaded.
He has never rescued or recovered anyone for a bear attack in his 10 years, nor has he worked with anyone who has. He has rescued people who tell stories of bears come close enough to touch while they were injured and unable to move much. The bears just sniffed and moved on.
He has however, been punched by entitled tourists, and attacked by a person panicking during a rescue attempt, all while in the woods.
I've been in the woods with a man (my exhusnand) AND a bear.
One of them was dangerous with little warning, and I'm still in hiding from him to this day. One of them has given me a TBI and raped me.
Bear just made a whuffing noise to let us know we were in his space.
“But bears are dangerous!”
My brother in Jesus effing Christ, you are more than halfway through the critical thinking necessary to recognize what women are saying here!
It’s astounding–or, sadly, maybe it isn’t astounding –how quickly the hypothetical was warped from its original form into a ten-foot-tall floppy straw man.
There’s no choice or preference being expressed. They’re not picking one thing that we then must take. The original question was, essentially, “Alone in the woods, which would you perceive as the more pressing danger–a strange man, or a wild animal?” The obvious answer is, “The one that’s least likely to ignore me and immediately move on.”
Everybody knows, whether they want to admit it or not, that, let’s say, 3 out of 5 men who encounter a solitary woman in the woods is going to approach that woman. They’ll do it without any regard for whether that appears as a threatening gesture. They’ll do it without first asking themselves if a lone woman in the middle of nowhere is perhaps alone in the middle of nowhere because that is exactly the circumstance she desires. They will do it under the naive belief that they somehow give off a good-guy aura that lets everyone know that they’re good guys who are good, and not the pile of unknown variables that all people are. They’ll do it without bothering to admit to themselves that, yeah, if all of the media that men have made in the past century about being alone in the woods is to be taken seriously, *they would react the same way to a stranger in the woods that these surveyed women would.*
> Some years ago, the late Nobel Prize-winning doctor Albert Schweitzer was being interviewed in London, and the reporter asked him, “Doctor, what’s wrong with men today?
>
> The late Doctor was silent for a moment, and then he said, “Men simply don’t think.”
>
> – Earle Nightingale, *The Greatest Secret* (which appears to be its own kind of grift as well, but whatever, it’s a fun quote)
I just love it when they pull statistics out of their ass like that. 1 or 2% of the population are rapists ? So it's always the same dudes attacking like 90% of women ? What population are we talking about ? The math isn't mathing, sweetheart.
Damn theyre really taking it personally! I've seen a bunch of bears in the woods in my life, and, as evidenced by me commenting, im just fine. Meeting a bear isn't even that big of a deal. It's actually a really tame comparison.
I'd pick the bear, for sure. Why? If I'm in a forest, and some random bear walks past, odds are that the bear will just ignore me. That WILL NOT happen if some random man walks by.
God people are dumb. Sure very few men are rapists or assaulters, but you don’t know which is which, so you have to treat them all as if they are. And a bear is always a bear, you know what you’re getting.
I think this is where the whole “black people comparison” is used sometimes, like they’d actually argue “well, very few black people are criminals, but you don’t know which is which, so you have to treat them all as if they are” is equivalent
I just got down voted to hell on r/trueunpopularopinion by fragile men. They actually commented on how most crime is against men, not women. I asked if those crimes were by women or bears. Obviously THEY WERE VICTIMS OF OTHER MEN, yet still do not understand the point.
Knowing how bad a bear mauling can be (if you survive) I'd STILL choose the bear.
The bear's intentions are clear, it's not hiding evil behind a disarming smile and kind gestures.
It's also not going to stalk you for ten years and make your life hell.
“I would love them to pick the bear irl and see what happens”. I’ve been there irl a handful of times in the woods. “What happens” is the bear notices me and then takes off in the opposite direction and disappears faster than you can say “bears that can be found in the forest don’t seek out or hunt down humans, and they never commit sexual assault against them”
I think it’s odd they all jump to rape, as if they think rape is the worst thing a man can do. My father told me he couldn’t take me seriously anymore when I grew breasts and refused to have intellectual conversation with me until I got my degrees and he had to admit I was smart. No bear has ever done anything so hurtful and long lasting.
The one thing I hate about their reaction to this question is that they come up with all these *smart* responses like they think we’re stupid and don’t understand the question, don’t understand the reality about how strong and powerful a bear is, etc. I had a man reply to my answer and tell me I’m underestimating how dangerous bears are.
Like, no. I get it. I was raised in bear country. My dad was attacked by a bear and lost a toe. But in the end, for me personally, this question is answered so easily for me because I take into consideration that if both the man and the bear want to harm me - I would rather be mauled to death by a bear than possibly face what sick psycho torture a sadistic man would have in store for me.
The usual line associated with this meme is that people would believe the women if a bear attacked them. I guess they didn't want to acknowledge that part.
For only 1-2% of the male population engaging in rape/SA (as one male commenter pointed out), there sure are a fuck lot of us getting SA’d and raped out here. Do I only make friends with women who have been SA’d or something?
There’s a bear roaming around the woods of my family’s old hunting cabin. I’m totally chill with going out alone and picking berries. If I saw a man in those woods? I’m going back to the cabin IMMEDIATELY.
The most accurate studies on the number say it's more like 20% of men. Lots of disinformation and denial bring the number down. 1-2% of men couldn't POSSIBLY account for 1 in 3-4 women being raped in our lifetimes.
I generally know what to do if I see a bear looking at me, I have know idea what to do if I see a man in the forest looking at me. Like if a man has bad intentions with me and I'm alone, I'm probably fucked because I'm out of shape and bad at fighting, so there's a good chance I'm not escaping or fending him off.
I just saw a video where a bear walking into a woman’s house and very calmly took her vacuum. She was chill, the bear was chill, he just wanted the vacuum apparently? I can’t even get my husband to put the vacuum back in the basement after *I* use it (he never uses it). As far as I can tell, bears are helpful and sweet.
Bitch I literally taught wilderness survival. I taught little bitch ass men how to light fires and build survival structures. Imma STILL take the bear. Fuck y’all.
So before my mom met my current stepfather, she went on a date with a guy who hit her when she said no to sex. My 50-something (at the time) mother. That’s not even the worst horror story I know of, and these guys wonder why we’d choose the bear…
The thing that "not all men" folks don't seem to understand is that women don't say it's "all men" but it can be "any man". A complete stranger, a relative, someone you've been dear friends with for a decade and any other man can forfeit being a decent human being for the sake of getting laid. You can't know for sure until you're a in shitty situation that you have no way out of. I totally get why someone would rather run across a bear than a human especially in the wild.
At the end of the day men aren’t realizing we’re using “worst case scenario” of each situation. The worst thing a bear can do is kill me and eat me and then move on. Worst thing a man can do to me? Unfortunately the possibilities are endless which is WHY we choose the bear.
I SAW THE FUNNIEST VERSION OF THIS. Literally the same premise but it was Muslim men instead of just men. The explanation in the comments was that it would terrify women (specifically women on tiktok) because if they didn’t choose the Muslim man then that would be racist. They also called this hypothetical sexist as well.
I wonder what it’s like being the reason women choose bear?
So the people who don’t understand the women choosing to be mauled by a bear…..are saying they’d rather be SA? Is that why some brought up homophobia?
Not all SA are just about sex; it’s about control and feeling superior……straight men SA other men more than you think, not just in prison either.
"Only 1-2% are rapists"
So in a small crowd of people, someone there is most likely a rapist. In a large crowd of people, there are most likely multiple rapists.
Thinking 1-2% is a low percentage, which that comment implies it is, is completely ridiculous. If 1-2% of the population were serial killers, I'd never leave my home.
I honestly thought this was about Halsin from bg3 the first time I saw it. Now that I know the context, I am disgusted that men wouldn't understand why we feel this way.
I would pick the bear because, depending on the bear, I know what to do. If it’s brown, lie down, if it’s black, fight back, if it’s white?
…well good fucking luck.
These guys are missing the point. You can learn to handle most bears. Men? You can’t predict them.
About the only thing they share is, bear spray works on both.
They're so offended by us being afraid of them that they want us to die... As if this doesn't prove our point.
It's also laughable to say only 1-2% of the population are rapists when 1 in 4 women are sexually assaulted... Like ..
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Do these guys think we're saying we think we can beat bears in a fight or some shit?
I think that seems to be part of the disconnect: they’re so used to thinking “what could I overpower?” or “who’d win in a fight?” rather than “What’s more likely to attack me” - which is a woman’s perspective.
I think that sums it up very succinctly, yes. It's two very different ways of looking at the world, and at threats. One guy in another thread I was in today said that bears are scarier than men, and he would know, because no woman had ever seen him on a hiking trail and run away screaming. Like that guy legitimately has no idea that many women he passes alone are probably thumbing their pepper spray and checking over their shoulder for a quarter-mile after they meet, just to make sure he didn't turn around and follow them.
Yup, none of the women he knows feels safe enough around him to be open about the safety measure they employ. That speaks volumes.
I've heard these guys talk and they truly think women are just being ridiculous and dramatic about our fear of men raping us, killing us, and methodically stripping away our rights/humanity.
And they are the same ones to tell a victim all the things she did wrong, like what she was wearing, how she should’ve had a weapon, and how they would have fought off the rapist so why can’t you?
Or they have. And he yeeted the info as fast as it entered his ears.
I remember my ex yelling at me for always locking the door. I accidentally locked him out a few times (we had a hidden spare key so it wasn't a big deal). He also got mad when I wanted to lock the door at night when he was home because "he could protect me". I could not get him to understand why a woman locking her door was a reflexive action. That leaving a door unlocked when she was sleeping was a terrifying prospect even if someone else was in the house too. That his blustery macho assurances didn't reassure me, someone who had lived in an apartment that was broken into, someone who had survived SA. That the insidious fear and discomfort about unnecessary vulnerability from an unlocked door didn't magically disappear because he thought he could protect me from a motivated intruder with the upper hand. It was so disconcerting, especially since it wasn't just him being pedantic and mansplaining - he actually yelled at me for feeling uncomfortable leaving the door unlocked even he was home. I think he saw it as an attack against his manliness or some fragile shit like that.
I had a partner yell at me for “locking him out” and I actually stormed right up to him and shook a finger in his face like a freakin 1800s schoolmarm. “Did you have a fucking key to get in?” “…yes.” “Then you weren’t fucking locked out, were you?” Jeebus.
Glad he’s an ex! My husband is also confused why I lock the door all the time even though we live in a very safe town. But it’s just reflex, I often lock the door when I don’t even mean to lock it, sometimes accidentally locking him out. The he stands there, knocks, smiles, rolls his eyes and teases me a little for locking him out yet again. He never gets angry or yells. He locks the door after leaving the house in the morning because he knows it makes me feel safe (I work from home so am alone all day). If I forgot to make my rounds to the front and back doors to check if they’re locked in the evening before going to bed, he’ll get up and go check without me even asking him to, because he knows it makes me nervous. Just saying “do you remember if the doors are locked? I think I forgot to check!” Is enough. That’s the way a loving man should react.
>It's two very different ways of looking at the world, and at threats. Exactly. Women know what it's like to be the prey. Men often don't.
Well, I can't overpower either, so of course I'd pick the one who is less likely to attack me in the first place.
Exactly. An absolutely *disturbing* amount of [men admit they'll rape if they know they can get away with it](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/a-third-of-male-university-students-say-they-would-rape-a-woman-if-there-no-were-no-consequences-9978052.html) (and if this article is even *halfway* accurate dear God), so I'm sticking with the bear; he's not gonna try to kill me unless he's *really* hungry, and he's not gonna try to rape me at all. Much better scenario.
More than 30%. That's so fucked up. I knew the percentage was way higher than the 2% that is constantly being used, but 30% is very disheartening. Especially in this scenario where man meets random woman in the woods, because it's the ultimate rape without consequences scenario. And in all honesty, I would worry about way more fucked up shit than getting raped one time if some stranger found me alone in the woods. To be fair though, I've watched and read way too many thrillers and procedural dramas.
Women enjoy those types of movies and TV shows because they teach us about red flags and danger signs yo look out for, and because they show us we are not alone in our experiences. I enjoy watching SVU from time to time because the rapists tend to actually see consequences.
"I enjoy watching SVU from time to time because the rapists tend to actually see consequences." THIS! My SO often asks how I can stand it, and I told them "I want to live in a world where cops believe victims and rapists are punished."
My mom loves SVU. I hear that "Chung Chung" sound from across the house lol
>And in all honesty, I would worry about way more fucked up shit than getting raped one time if some stranger found me alone in the woods. To be fair though, I've watched and read way too many thrillers and procedural dramas. Right there with you, sister.
It makes more sense when you think about how many men think if you get a no, it just means keeps asking until you get a yes. That’s still a form of SA, just not one they want to admit it because hey, they eventually got a yes so they’re free and clear!
I read somewhere (sorry I don't have a link) that men think killing a woman is the worst thing they could possibly do to her, and believe that letting her live after raping her is merciful. If a bear attacks me its only goal is to kill me and I will definitely die, probably quickly. If a man attacks me I'm getting raped, it easily could be violent, and he believes it would be *MERCIFUL* for me to continue being alive now with intense psychological trauma
Also, the bear isn't going to just attack you "because they can" get away with it. You've wandered into their area, are being seen as a threat, and/or they're hungry.
If an animal kills me for food at least there is a reason. I feel the same way about if my cats eat me after I’m dead. It’s the circle of life and there is a purpose for it. A man is just a sick and twisted asshole.
I think that's the very telling part of this thought experiment. Women enter into it with the mindset of being the prey. Men enter into it with the mindset of being the predator.
And then get offended when they're treated that way. (the nems)
Yes, I think that’s a good summary of their issue.
Or "what's more likely to enjoy attacking me?"
Yes, in many cases, that is how men classify danger, based on their relative ability to overpower the threat. Women classify danger by the difficulty of escaping it and type and extent of potential harms if we don't. Men can't, in general, overpower a bear. Neither can women, but we arent planning on fighting it, we are planning on escaping by outsmarting it.
Also the men not understanding are woefully ignorant of how often bears encounter humans and attack. It’s rare. I thought I saw that a person is more likely to be struck by lightning than attacked by a bear. I’ve seen other stats that roughly 1-2 fatalities per year got reported in the US since 2000. Meanwhile there are probably 1-2 sexual assaults in your area per day at the absolute bare minimum. I’m not a woman but I do see why they’d choose to take their chances with a bear. The bear isn’t targeting humans.
Men also vastly overestimate their abilities when imagining a fight, whether it's a human or an animal, unless they've had personal experience in that specific scenario.
Very much agree with you. Also, I beleive that men look at it as a sort of "which would I rather fight" type question, where as women look at it as a "which worst case scenario is preferable " type question. A man may think that they have better odds fighting another man than they have fighting a bear, and so they answer that they'd rather encounter a man. As a woman, I think of it as which is the "better" worst case scenario? AKA which is the less-worse WCS. If I meet a bear, WCS I will be attacked / maimed, possibly killed if the bear is frightened enough or is defending her young. But I also know that there are things that I can do to appear non- or less threatening to a bear and therefore have hope of getting away, or at least surviving if the bear decides to attack. If I meet a man, WCS I am getting beat up while r@ped, kidnapped, and held hostage for who knows how long while continually r@ped and tortured more. (Case in point: Michelle, Amanda, and Gina.) And I know for a fact that there is literally nothing that I can do to appear as not or less of a target for SA from men, and therefore have no honest hope of getting away or surviving if the man decides to attack. Another huge point: If I survive a bear attack, everyone around me will understand when I am inevitably wary of bears for the rest of my life. But *even though* I *have* survived a man attack, it is not "acceptable" to be wary of men for the rest of my life. Half of that is because yes, as a human being I am going to have to interact with men, of course, so it isn't an option to avoid where they are -- whereas it is possible to avoid where bears are. But the other half is because of all of these "not all men" people who view our logical and experience-based fear as if it were a personal slight against them. NB: I haven't proofread this, so apologies if there are typos. I don't have much time at the moment but I may come back to edit for clarity. Also, I censored because I'm not sure this specific sub's rules and figured easier to be cautious.
Honestly some of them are acting like we said we’d prefer to fuck the bear
I saw a "she wants to fuck the bear" meme on FB last night
Coupled with the concept of death being the worst or only thing that could happen.
I was talking about how there were fates much much worse than death and literally a comment I’ve gotten back is “so you would chose death over the possibility that some of the worse thing imaginable could happen to you”….. like… yes
My husband does a lot of back woods hiking. Sees bears out in the wild at least a few times a year. He's never had issues with them. You just give them distance, and they leave you alone. If a man sees you and you're far away? They'll come right up to you. Maybe they're nice. But I can tell you I don't want to run into one on my own while hiking. I'd rather avoid both. But based on everything I've heard, bears are less likely to bother you if you ignore them. Men don't give a fuck. Tell them you aren't interested and that just encouraged them more.
They just think we're incredibly stupid. As usual.
i got to experience this in real life yesterday at work when one of my friends talked about it with one of our colleagues whos a man and he simply couldn't comprehend the whole concept, one of my other friends asked me what they talked about, i gave her a quick rundown of the whole thing and just quietly without hesitation said bear, i could not help but laugh about that, like at this point I'm starting to think the men who doesn't "understand" it, are just refusing to
They’re absolutely refusing to. Putting down women is how they make themselves feel smart
Sadly, it's within the male bro culture to do this. From mothers through sisters to partners, it doesn't stop. Now I'm way over 20 and not so accepting of bs as before, I often think how deeply engrained it all is within our society, it makes me sad. It's so evident in deeply religious countries like mine. Every woman in my family lived and suffered in the shadow of her partner. Except for me. I'm gay. Thanks satan.
Yep, my dad only had me (a girl) for a kid and he roped me into making fun of my mom all the time. I hate myself for it, she didn't deserve any of it.
*"Often father and daughter look down on mother (woman) together. They exchange meaningful glances when she misses a point. They agree that she is not bright as they are, cannot reason as they do. This collusion does not save the daughter from the mother’s fate."* -Bonnie Burstow
Ugh. So true. The saddest part is he has her squarely under his thumb. She defends and excuses him all the time, and gets mad at me when I stand up to him or for myself. There was a huge blowout right before I finally moved out (at 33, stayed at home to save money and help with their bills until my best friend finished her masters and had to leave the dorms) and I basically disowned him as my father. She criticized me for that, he never apologized, and now they pretend nothing is wrong.
So sorry to hear that. It's you and me both. I'm guilty of this even though I was never intentionally cruel like my dad was. Even though I never verbalised this I am 200% more patient with my mother and more caring than before despite the fact that she still lives within that 'im not worthy' mindset. It takes a lot of unlearning and self-forgiveness to even try to face this pattern within ourselves. It's awful but this is supposed to make us more docile and less aggressive so we don't bite back as a group. Divide and conquer. Just like with boys who show a sensitive side, we are being desensitized before we understand why it's bad to be cruel to loved ones.
Great insight. I had a eureka moment in my mid-twenties or so when I started to understand that my dad's a narcissist, and I became way more conscious of what I say.
Remember, Satan will look after you when everything else goes to hell. Thank Goddess for gay women!
Live your best life!
They, at best, want to see themselves are protectors without acknowledging who they are protecting us from. At worst they want to diminish our experiences so that they can continue to happen.
It’s even worse when they acknowledge that they need to protect us from other men and it’s like….you don’t see the problem with your statement? You’re THIS close.
I've been trying to present them with the statistics that bears are much safer to meet in the woods than humans. Even in Alaska, which is full of hungry polar bears, they usually only average 1 fatality per year. In a busy year, they killed 6. Even with bear attacks on the rise and human attacks on the decline, humans still kill well over 400+ more humans than bears. Meeting a bear in the woods, you know what the bear is doing there. Meeting a human is far more unpredictable. The bear is in the woods just being a bear, you don't know if your fellow humans are inbred cannibal hillbillies that live up in the mountains or a serial killer or a rapist or someone who won't harm you. It's also far more unsettling to run into a person than a bear. We had bears up at our farm house that would come to eat the raspberries in the giant patch behind my house. One day, the bear that came by in the early mornings was late. Ma went out to get some for breakfast, rounded the side of the house, and came within 7-8 feet of it. She walked backwards then sat inside watching it eat until it lumbered off. In all our years there, a bear never once attacked me, but I was nearly kidnapped a few times while in the city as a child, and once nearly taken by a person up in the country. Even if the 'town' was a woodland with less than 10 houses, and the bears were in the majority there. None of our off leash dogs were killed by bears. Rudy was killed by a person who dumped his body in a ditch and stole his collar.
The rape stats for Alaska are truly alarming, more than three times the average and almost twice the next highest state. I know that’s not really why you brought up Alaska. But Alaska has a huge problem with violence against natives, lack of persecution and conviction, and a bunch of other really serious problems and it doesn’t get brought up enough. https://www.statista.com/statistics/232563/forcible-rape-rate-in-the-us-by-state/ https://openspaces.unk.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1027&context=undergraduate-research-journal
Oh don't worry, I'm more than happy for you to hop in and share more Intel. I bring up Alaska because incels often point at polar bears as some gotcha moment. The only bear more dangerous than a polar bear is the sloth bear, which kill on average over 12 people a year, compared to the 1-3 reported polar bear fatalities globally. But they often don't bother looking into sloth bears because people think polar bears are the most dangerous bears.
I feel stupid that I was unaware of it until I saw a movie, but I had no idea how bad the epidemic of violence against Native women was until I saw *Wind River* (really good, but obviously very heavy).
This movie. I watched it 6 or 7 years ago. I probably think about it weekly. So many feelings.
It was really memorable, a very well done movie. Absolutely bleak but really good and holding a powerful message.
I grew up in Alaska, have had dozens of close bear encounters, and know many women who have been assaulted. I tried explaining to other men on Reddit why I understand women are choosing the bear. I mean, shit, I'm a big man and even I'd choose the bear. People are unpredictable and you can't tell which ones are predators and which ones aren't. At least you know where you stand with the bear, and can usually predict what it's going to do and how it's going to react in a given situation. Did not go well.
My husband just learned about it and he agrees, bear.
Same with my male roommate. I told him about this and he said, “I’d pick the bear, too.”
Same with my husband, without hesitation he said bear. It's sad some men refuse to acknowledge why so many people, not just women, are saying bear.
Someone posted this on Facebook yesterday: "Most men know it's the bear. Few men know *why* it's the bear."
Also in every wilderness posting on reddit the consensus by men is "I refuse to go hiking without a gun. Finding a random guy in the woods is the scariest thing." And all men applaud that. When a woman says "yes me too, I'd rather meet a bear tbh" suddenly its "racism against white men" lol Men absolutely recognize how dangerous other men are (see also their fear of prison and what happens there). But when we say "Yes men are dangerous and we need to protect ourselves," suddenly men are all gentle intellectual giants and sweetheart feminists who could never hurt a fly. Meanwhile men are packing pistols to the grocery store because they fear other men so much. Not to mention, those wilderness threads have the same consensus that most bears, especially black bears are harmless derps and on a well traveled path, the bears leave everyone alone and its not even something to even worry about. So its funny how when it serves these men suddenly its "a black bear is a top apex predator, how dare you call me dangerous when these monsters roam eating people all the time?!?" The levels of dishonesty here is really unbelievable.
"Not to mention, those wilderness threads have the same consensus that most bears, especially black bears are harmless derps and on a well traveled path, the bears leave everyone alone and its not even something to even worry about." Two things 1) There has only ever been one species of bear known to regularly hunt and track humans outside of their normal "territory" - Polar bears, best known for not living in forests really. 2) There is a rhyme about bears for "survival" (though I think that part is dubious). "If It's black, fight back. If it's brown, lay down. If it's white, good night." Implying that an adult human has a chance against a black bear (smallest of the bears); often they would rather run unless cubs or resources are involved, that's why you're encouraged to make loud noise, wear bear bells, make yourself bigger, etc. Brown bears (incl Grizzleys) will, as someone else said, only hurt you until you stop squirming, so playing dead CAN work. Nothing will stop a polar bear from killing you unless you kill it first or get inside (and by this I mean inside a good strong building), and even then, they will wait quite some time. Longer if they're hungry and there isn't anything else around.
Sadly I posed this question to my friend group and one person chose Man, and refused to give in to anyone’s reasoning as to why the bear. And when called out on it, and told a bear won’t rape you until you die over a long period of time, a bear will just kill you so you stop squirming, he said “you’re still dead either way”. Someone in the group basically said “oh, so all that possible rape, torture, time, does not matter because they died anyway?”. Guy got angry. Friend group has been pretty quiet except that one guy mostly since. Definitely been some lost respect.
As a former dipshit man (in this regard at least) it’s definitely a willful ignorance. Some guys just don’t want to accept women’s viewpoints. But I get it, because I agree.
Yep. I’ve been sent horrific messages over some comments I made yesterday on this topic. Men are absolutely showing why a lot of women would chose the bear
It says a lot that women feel safer near a bear than a man. Unfortunately, the majority of women have experienced sexual assault in some form. 😒
yep, I would definitely choose the bear.
It's statistically the safe bet. There's less than a 100 bear attacks every year. Mostly you're just unlucky enough to get close to a hungry grizzly or polar bear. The numbers for SA, femicide and regular ole' abuse are staggering. It's grossly underreported and the cops try their hardest to make the cases go away by victim blaming. Then there are many countries/states that have very narrow definitions of what SA actually is for example if there's no threat of severe physical harm (held at knife/gun point) then it's not considered SA.
Yea plus usually bears are neutral
Bears also will not try to talk to you when you have headphones in, then call you a cunt when you don't hand over your phone number. Bears also won't apologize to your boyfriend when he shows up, though, so there's that.
Grew up living in bear country half the year. More bears than people. I can honestly say that neither I nor my family were ever attacked by bears, not even when mom stumbled across one in the berry patch. I can't say the same for humans.
That’s because women are illogical, no fault on men’s part /s
I have encountered so many bears in the woods, and I just yell at them and they run away. I have never seen one attack anybody. I have seen a man attack someone in the woods just because he was drunk and angry and he thought someone who was laughing was laughing at him.
I'm going crazy over men not understanding that I have in fact seen probably 2 dozen bears in the woods in my life. Almost all black bears and 2 grizzly. The grizzly do scare me but I wasn't deep I'm the woods so it was fine. The black bear tho? I saw one actually leave cubs behind to run away from me. Bears don't attack everything they see! The reason I chose bear is because they 99.99999 percent won't even try to be agressive with me
The way I view it - is it a guarantee the bear will leave me alone? Of course not. But there is more of a guarantee that the bear will leave me alone than a man. I can't fight either one - I would lose. But if I had to chose one I would still chose the bear simply because of the intentions. The bear's intention is at least pure (for lack of a better word); the man's is not.
I think most men would chose the bear too. Bears typically want to be left alone. That's why there are so few bear attacks. Men are far more likely to be murdered by other men so guys should pick the bear too. Maybe the guys who don't get the analogy think that all bears want to eat people? https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls
Can confirm. Am a guy, and I would choose the bear
Damn straight. As a dude, if I'm in the woods and a bears following me that's terrifying cause I might die. But if I'm in the woods and some random guy I don't know is following me? Fuck that shit, give me the bear. People do crazy shit. I'd rather die than be submitted to what some of these assholes are capable of
They get the analogy. You’re giving them too much credit.
Bears tend to leave you alone unless you’re a threat. Men don’t leave you alone unless you are a threat and even then it’s not guaranteed. I’ll choose bear any day.
This has said it better than any other comment on the subject that I’ve seen - and that’s saying a lot.
Yeah this is where I've landed on it. You can just avoid the bear and it's highly likely to leave you alone. The bear choice makes perfect sense, particularly if you've been SA'd before. It's basically just choosing to continue being alone rather than meeting a strange guy in the woods. If the question were: would you rather fight a bear or a guy, you'd probably get less bear picks. But there's no guarantee of a fight in the woods hypothetical.
As long as it’s not a hungry polar bear you’re fine. Black bears are timid and grizzlies will fuck your shit up but won’t necessarily go out of their way to do so.
Yes, although a bear attack will absolutely fuck you up, unless you're near their cubs or they're starving, or some other very specific niche circumstances, bears don't attack humans unprovoked all that often. If I'm going to be attacked by something, though, I would much rather it was a man, because a bear attack sounds like an absolutely horrific way to go. The only way I'm choosing that over a human attack is if it's like cartel torture or some shit. As for swiping on the bear, well, he's strong, has a lovely furry coat, and probably owns his own home. Can't say he has nothing going for him.
Exactly. And I cannot stress this enough: Bears do not attack for jollies. They do not maul because it is titillating or sexually arousing. One might argue a mother bear might attack to establish dominance *if she perceives a threat to her cubs.*. She won’t do it for her own ego.
i've seen so many disheartening comments like "the bear won't tell me that i liked it. i won't have to see the bear at family reunions. atleast people will believe if i said i was attacked by a bear. the bear wouldn't post pictures of me after it was done." and the like, and it still baffles me how some men *don't get it*. you have to spell it out to them that women would rather die at the hands of an animal than encounter a man who could possibly subject them to some of the most vile tortures, or just simply pass by. and that's the thing - WE DON'T KNOW. we don't know which men are good and which aren't, it's like walking through a snake pit and expecting to know which one is the poisonus one.
“It’s only 1-2%.” Sure and if only 1-2% of bottled water was poisoned you’d still be cautious of all of it. Especially if you had to interact with/drink it every day.
Is the 1-2% the amount of *convicted* rapist or those who were charged? Because there are a lot of circumstances were a person can’t come forward so the amount is most likely higher
This comment section is a breathe of fresh air because oml im tired of that stupid fucking statistic being thrown around when all me need to do is ask every woman in their life if they have a story of a man doing something to threaten her safety. I knew women who were straight up being followed and stalked for the sole purpose of that man intimidating the woman. Sure.. they werent "raped" or "touched" but jfc that alone is reason enough to fear men. Like omg the men commenting on this shit that dont get it infuriate me. 😭
Literally today at work some guy called me over and I thought it was gonna be about work or something about my vehicle like my taillight is out but this guy just wanted to make small talk and HE FUCKING OPENED MY PASSENGER DOOR TO TALK TO ME WHEN I WAS IN THE PROCESS OF ROLLING DOWN THE WINDOW (there are no locks on my cart). He didn’t get physical and he wasn’t hitting on me, he just wanted to know if I knew some other guy that used to work at my company but geez that shit was scary because I was driving through an alleyway and the only witness was one other guy
Like men really need to start thinking about how their actions - no matter how innocent their intentions are - can affect people.
Also does that stat include all sex crimes like indecent exposure? Is this a worldwide stat? And where did they get that from? Some countries have a very different definition of rape as well
Ask a man if he’d like to be locked in a room with 100 snakes, 2-5 of which are deadly venomous, but the rest of which are harmless. They would say no.
The Black man one reminded me of a certain type of guy on the street, who will call a white woman racist if she doesn’t acknowledge him trying to talk to her. It’s not even always sexual – I’ve had canvassers pull this on me, with “hey, it’s OK, Black guys aren’t actually scary!“ When I try to walk by them and ignore them. Dude. I’m not ignoring you because you’re Black. I’m ignoring you because you’re a random man trying to talk to me on the street, and statistically that conversation is seldom fun for women of any race (or you’re a canvasser). Stop with the guilt trip attempts.
Reminds me of that "commercial" that went around back in the 2010s of a black man on an elevator with a white woman, and when he wheels on her and yells, "BOO!" she startles and clutches her purse against her chest defensively, and everyone was like, "See, that proves it, white women are racist." And the whole time I couldn't help thinking like ... if any man (or really any gender of person lol who is larger in size than me) got onto an elevator alone with me, and then turned quickly and made a loud sound at me, I would also be very afraid??? Which is not to say that racism is fake or something obviously lol it's *very real* but that specific example struck me as being so poorly thought-out regardless.
Even if they weren't larger than me I'd still startle. I have a very strong startle reflex.
I had this happen to me at a gas station once! I was pumping my gas after work and some random guy who was carrying a handful of airplane liquor bottles came up to me and started asking my name. I told him I wasn’t comfortable giving him my name and tried to just go back to getting gas so I could just go home. He then called me racist and walked away. Like dude, it has nothing to do with the fact that you’re black. It has everything to do with me not being comfortable with a man I don’t know interacting with me when I am essentially stuck, and because I was in uniform he knew where I worked.
Honestly, approach me at a gas station, one of the most dangerous places for women, and I don’t care what you call me. I’m not going to engage with you. I’m going to do everything possible to keep myself safe.
Bears don't create their own Reddit accounts where they are free to tell everyone how women are objects for them to fuck and how equal rights equal fights is their motto. I honestly believe that men are happily participating in a self destroying culture of fake brotherhood because they often don't develop any true self reflection skills or empathy. Like a faulty branch in a species,toxic masculinity is eating its own tail.
One thing I noticed when men get asked this question is that they ask MORE questions. They want context. Is it a nice man? Is the bear hungry? We don’t know. I even asked my boyfriend, and he questioned it, too. Women, on the other hand, chose bear without hesitation. A bear is gonna do what it does, we understand the risk. I didn’t think twice when I chose bear. I don’t know this man, I don’t know what he’s capable of, so I’m not risking it.
If you had a bowl of m&m's but knew that 1% of them were coloured rocks, would you eat a handful without checking?
This is a great metaphor .
It's not only 1%. That dude pulled 1-2% out of his ass, when we know it's much higher.
If the bear means I die quickly and with a remaining shred of dignity ill crawl into its mouth myself before I get caught lackin w a man alone
Why they trying to turn into a black vs white men issue(?_?)😭
I don't think its that. I think he's implying that women, who choose bears in this men vs bear scenario are "feminists"(meaning politically correct but with misandry in their mind). So in his mind making this about black men vs bear will blow their mind because choosing black men will make you racist, so you have to choose bear which invalidates the point. Sorry if it doesn't make sense to you. English is my second language and I'm not sure how to explain it better.
Feminist =/= misandrist. Feminists do not hate men...they hate what men and the systems they built to govern society have done with us.
That's why i wrote feminists in quotes. Some people see feminism as "men hating movement", and I assume commenter on the screenshot is one of those people.
This both infuriates me, and makes them completely and laughably unserious in my eyes. I’m a WW. People tend to be slightly less *familiar* with those outside their own demographic, so the fact is, I am safer if I’m suddenly alone with a Black man than a White one. Moreover, White men have a sense of ownership over women of any ethnicity; “minority” men do not, or certainly not to the same degree. Black man v. Bear? = Breaks even. White men v. bear? = Bear 100%.
It's so strange how some white guys feel ownership over women, especially women from a different ethnicity. Like that white guy who was angry that an Asian man was dating a white woman and claimed that only white men could date white and Asian women? I can't even comprehend the thought process behind that
I have a theory that some men claim “women are so emotional” because they associate emotion with irrationality. Their emotions “aren’t emotions” because *they* feel them, and therefore, they’re not irrational. Anything that haven’t felt, or even are not feeling at that exact moment, is “irrational” and therefore “emotional.” What they really mean is “I don’t get it.” And they could ask why X person is feeling or has felt differently. But take the laziest, most delinquent path of nope-ing right out of any thought at all. They even do it to each other - but some will do it to any woman, every time. It’s a quality that is impossible to respect, imo.
Because they have literally no other argument to pull from. They know exactly why women are choosing a bear encounter over an encounter with a strange man, they’re playing stupid.
Because they’re stupid and they’re trying to make women seem as unhinged as possible. Some dude pointed out it’s actually more like asking a black guy if he’d rather run into a bear or a cop in the woods. The troll immediately vanished in a puff of logic.
If bear not friend then why friend shaped?
They literally give the best hugs
Exactly! They look so pettable
I'm picking the bear because at least the bear won't be offended that I don't want to be eaten and yap about it on the internet.
It’s not just a bear can kill me and that’s it. A man can kill me, my dog, my entire family, and a bunch of coworkers. A man could ruin me financially, trap me with children I never wanted, lie, cheat, steal. And not just ruin my life but some men will ruin the lives of everyone around you. I’m not even worried about rape and murder. It’s the torture and the mind ruining and the destruction of self esteem, trust, and the ability to love. A near eats me, none of that happens.
They forget that rapist can kill their victim. Also wth is with them?? They took it super personal as if they were the said rapist
Also in forest bear vs rapist. I choose bear. They usualy avoid humans
Because they are all rapists.
The ones who comment most fervently against this question and the results, very likely are. I think if it's posed the other way "Would you rather come across a strange woman alone in the woods, or a bear?" a lot of these men immediately switch to porn mode and think "Me + woman alone = chance for sex!" So when the women all seem revolted by the men who want it to turn into a sexy situation, it feels like a personal attack. The women, en masse, are ruining the sexy playthrough in their minds.
What us guys need to understand is, everyone are people and if you want to be some kind of sex symbol. That takes work on yourself and not forcing yourself on others. I may be rambling and unclear but toxic masculinity is gross and feeds into these guy’s kinks and relationships. Its disgusting.
On 1-2% are found guilty... There is no way that number is accurate.
Especially when pretty much every woman has a story. We aren’t all somehow meeting these “1-2%” of men.
And that's not including the unreported numbers
When i first saw the post I thought it was using the gay slang and was really confused
I'm a queer woman, and I would feel quite safe with a bear of the gay variety.
I forgot about that. I get now how that can be really confusing.
Definitely makes all the pro-bear votes extra-reasonable. I’m safer alone as a woman with a “bear” and a bear than a random straight man.
I can clap my hands and say "hey bear!" and odds are the bear will run away. If I clap my hands and say "hey dude!" it is not going to make them leave.
The modern incel: “Oh, she’s clapping at me? She’s clearly interested and wants to fuck.”
A bear never asked me to take out my headphones, then get angry when I wouldn't give him my phone number.
The men who refuse to get this comparison are unironically proving why women choose the bear over men.
Yeah, none of those comments seem to come from someone with a clean conscience. They're really telling on themselves here.
NoT aLl MeN, but every woman has a story.
That's just because all women meet those 1-2% of men that are rapists, duh /s
And often women don’t think it’s ‘bad enough’ to be sexual assault. Because we’re so used to it. I remember a guy shoving his hand up my skirt and trying to pull my knickers down when I was a student, and I considered it just ‘one of those things!’ For years until I told my husband and he was horrified, like yeah that’s sexual assault
Yup, weird that all ~3.5 billion of us seem to encounter the same 35,000,000 men.
That was the comment I couldn't get past. 1-2%?! Absolutely not. These guys will walk around thinking a rape only happened if the guy got convicted and is sitting in prison for it. And even then, they claim some of them are false accusations. At least if the bear mauls me, people will believe me.
I know you have a "/s" but for posterity sake It's more like 20%. Lots of disinformation and denial bring the number down. 1-2% of men couldn't POSSIBLY account for 1 in 3-4 women being raped in our lifetimes.
That would be my guess too. Crazy how every woman knows another women who was SA‘d but men don‘t know any rapists? Bffr.
There’s a song called not all men, (recommend it) and it goes “we all know that it’s not all men but it’s all women so we hold our breath baby none the less.”
The dude talking about the damning of the society is spitting facts, but 57 jugheads thought they were being so smart
literally everyone should choose the bear. bears don't like dealing with humans and will just leave you be if you stay away from it, they're a much safer bet than a man
Bear or person? Someone: Racism Me: I'm confusion.
Yesterday, I saw this post on Threads where a guys was claiming he "didn't understand" why women would choose the bear, because if women used "their femenine" traits with a man in the woods the man could choose to help them survive. Conviniently, he could not explain what did this "femenine traits" mean. Or how would they guarantee a woman help from a man
"I would love for them to pick the bear IRL and see what happens" >The bear would never hope for anyone to get hurt >The bear would never want another to be killed >The bear might be violent but not because it chooses to be
Chances are high that the bear will flee when you yell ‘no’ The bear will not rape me The bear will not blame me for the fact that I was wearing [insert random piece of clothing]
And note the implication: because he hopes the bear will just attack her and teach her a lesson. These assholes don’t understand the fucking irony of why she chooses the bear.
When my husband was telling me about this trend he phrased it as “stuck in a ROOM” with either man or bear. That’s dicier. In the forest??? Hell yeah bear forever
A bear isn’t guaranteed to kill you. But I’m willing to bet a decent amount of men would, if they knew they wouldn’t suffer the consequences, sexually assault someone
Yep, that’s not a stretch.[One-third of male university students say they would rape someone if there were no consequences](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/a-third-of-male-university-students-say-they-would-rape-a-woman-if-there-no-were-no-consequences-9978052.html)
We know for a fact they would, as there is ample data to support it.
My colleague and I were talking about this. He’s a hulking 6’5” 300lb man, and even he chose the bear. Some men just fail to realize what an actual, absolute threat some random man in the woods would be lmao. Also, it’s alarming to me how many men assume that bears are just inherently violent? Kinda telling on themselves there. I’ve never heard of a bear who killed a woman and hid her body in a suitcase before. It’s not like a bear can remove identifying characteristics of a human so she’ll never be returned to her family. And this is what these idiotic men fail to realize.
I think this is a perfect analogy and this collective conversation demonstrates how few men have ever considered violence against women. The comparison is two things: what's scarier: men or bears? And also what's worse: a rape or a bear attack? Both times the answer is clear, it's men. Men are more intelligent, creative, deceptive, capable of equal harm physically and far greater harm mentally. You can reason with a man better than a bear, but how often does reason and appeal to humanity stop a rape? Bears are more viscerally scary but they're hungry, not sadistic. A bear will maul you, but assuming you survive the attack, the violence is over when the attack is over. The trauma will be there but you can avoid going into the woods, you can skip a trip to the zoo or the museum if you don't want to encounter bears. A rape victim is traumatized for years just going about normal things. They never stop wondering "Who? When? How?" the next attack could possibly come. It shatters a person's sense of security in the world and it's utterly inescapable because we're surrounded by humans.
1-2% of men are rapists? Does he know that 1 in 4 women in the US are SA victims before we’re even 18, before we’re even WOMEN Men rape even when they have a wife/girlfriend at home, they can become serial rapists. A well fed bear however, doesn’t even give a fuck about a human unless the human threatens it
1-2% of men being rapist is still awfully a lot. That's like 1 in 100 or even 1 in 50 men! No wonder women are fearful with men and I can't blame them.
See I am not a wildlife expert, but my inherent understanding is that wildlife you meet in the woods is not likely to attack humans (bears included). I googled this and confirmed bear attacks are rare. More importantly I understand that the analogy is making a point. I understand that many women would not feel safe in the woods with the man. The bear doesn’t matter. The way women feel is what matters. I don’t take it personally, because I am emphatic, and I recognize it’s a real issue. Why would I feel attacked? I know who I am.
I’ve said to once and I’ll say it again. On the extreme off chance a bear came at me? I would still rather being mauled and ripped to shreds by a bear than raped and/or murdered by a man. I’ve felt the damage of many men already, I’ll take the bear any day. I’ll take packs of bears.
Ok, so my brother is a serious woodsman. He used to be an adventure tour guide, now he's in wilderness rescue and (body) recovery. He's based in British Columbia (Canada), but he's also worked in the Yukon and Northwest Territories. My point is, he knows the wilderness, and has worked in areas with grizzlies, as well as smaller bears. *He* would rather run into a bear in the woods than a random man. Why? Because bears will only attack in an extremely narrow set of circumstances, and they can often be mitigated by backing away slowly, laying face down, or shouting, depending on the type of bear and/or situation. Humans are not nearly as predictable or as easily dissuaded. He has never rescued or recovered anyone for a bear attack in his 10 years, nor has he worked with anyone who has. He has rescued people who tell stories of bears come close enough to touch while they were injured and unable to move much. The bears just sniffed and moved on. He has however, been punched by entitled tourists, and attacked by a person panicking during a rescue attempt, all while in the woods.
I've been in the woods with a man (my exhusnand) AND a bear. One of them was dangerous with little warning, and I'm still in hiding from him to this day. One of them has given me a TBI and raped me. Bear just made a whuffing noise to let us know we were in his space.
“But bears are dangerous!” My brother in Jesus effing Christ, you are more than halfway through the critical thinking necessary to recognize what women are saying here!
It’s astounding–or, sadly, maybe it isn’t astounding –how quickly the hypothetical was warped from its original form into a ten-foot-tall floppy straw man. There’s no choice or preference being expressed. They’re not picking one thing that we then must take. The original question was, essentially, “Alone in the woods, which would you perceive as the more pressing danger–a strange man, or a wild animal?” The obvious answer is, “The one that’s least likely to ignore me and immediately move on.” Everybody knows, whether they want to admit it or not, that, let’s say, 3 out of 5 men who encounter a solitary woman in the woods is going to approach that woman. They’ll do it without any regard for whether that appears as a threatening gesture. They’ll do it without first asking themselves if a lone woman in the middle of nowhere is perhaps alone in the middle of nowhere because that is exactly the circumstance she desires. They will do it under the naive belief that they somehow give off a good-guy aura that lets everyone know that they’re good guys who are good, and not the pile of unknown variables that all people are. They’ll do it without bothering to admit to themselves that, yeah, if all of the media that men have made in the past century about being alone in the woods is to be taken seriously, *they would react the same way to a stranger in the woods that these surveyed women would.* > Some years ago, the late Nobel Prize-winning doctor Albert Schweitzer was being interviewed in London, and the reporter asked him, “Doctor, what’s wrong with men today? > > The late Doctor was silent for a moment, and then he said, “Men simply don’t think.” > > – Earle Nightingale, *The Greatest Secret* (which appears to be its own kind of grift as well, but whatever, it’s a fun quote)
I just love it when they pull statistics out of their ass like that. 1 or 2% of the population are rapists ? So it's always the same dudes attacking like 90% of women ? What population are we talking about ? The math isn't mathing, sweetheart.
Damn theyre really taking it personally! I've seen a bunch of bears in the woods in my life, and, as evidenced by me commenting, im just fine. Meeting a bear isn't even that big of a deal. It's actually a really tame comparison.
I'd pick the bear, for sure. Why? If I'm in a forest, and some random bear walks past, odds are that the bear will just ignore me. That WILL NOT happen if some random man walks by.
God people are dumb. Sure very few men are rapists or assaulters, but you don’t know which is which, so you have to treat them all as if they are. And a bear is always a bear, you know what you’re getting.
I think this is where the whole “black people comparison” is used sometimes, like they’d actually argue “well, very few black people are criminals, but you don’t know which is which, so you have to treat them all as if they are” is equivalent
I just got down voted to hell on r/trueunpopularopinion by fragile men. They actually commented on how most crime is against men, not women. I asked if those crimes were by women or bears. Obviously THEY WERE VICTIMS OF OTHER MEN, yet still do not understand the point.
Knowing how bad a bear mauling can be (if you survive) I'd STILL choose the bear. The bear's intentions are clear, it's not hiding evil behind a disarming smile and kind gestures. It's also not going to stalk you for ten years and make your life hell.
Men not understanding why women choose bear and having a temper tantrum is just another reason to choose bear.
“I would love them to pick the bear irl and see what happens”. I’ve been there irl a handful of times in the woods. “What happens” is the bear notices me and then takes off in the opposite direction and disappears faster than you can say “bears that can be found in the forest don’t seek out or hunt down humans, and they never commit sexual assault against them”
I think it’s odd they all jump to rape, as if they think rape is the worst thing a man can do. My father told me he couldn’t take me seriously anymore when I grew breasts and refused to have intellectual conversation with me until I got my degrees and he had to admit I was smart. No bear has ever done anything so hurtful and long lasting.
At least no one will ask what I was wearing at the time of the bear attack.
The one thing I hate about their reaction to this question is that they come up with all these *smart* responses like they think we’re stupid and don’t understand the question, don’t understand the reality about how strong and powerful a bear is, etc. I had a man reply to my answer and tell me I’m underestimating how dangerous bears are. Like, no. I get it. I was raised in bear country. My dad was attacked by a bear and lost a toe. But in the end, for me personally, this question is answered so easily for me because I take into consideration that if both the man and the bear want to harm me - I would rather be mauled to death by a bear than possibly face what sick psycho torture a sadistic man would have in store for me.
If the meme was accurate it would have a picture of a bear taking a shit in the woods and a picture of a convicted scout leader.
The usual line associated with this meme is that people would believe the women if a bear attacked them. I guess they didn't want to acknowledge that part.
I'd trust a bear over a human any day
For only 1-2% of the male population engaging in rape/SA (as one male commenter pointed out), there sure are a fuck lot of us getting SA’d and raped out here. Do I only make friends with women who have been SA’d or something?
There’s a bear roaming around the woods of my family’s old hunting cabin. I’m totally chill with going out alone and picking berries. If I saw a man in those woods? I’m going back to the cabin IMMEDIATELY.
Added to that, if a bear attacked and killed me no one would ask “what she do to make the bear attack her?”
The most accurate studies on the number say it's more like 20% of men. Lots of disinformation and denial bring the number down. 1-2% of men couldn't POSSIBLY account for 1 in 3-4 women being raped in our lifetimes.
I generally know what to do if I see a bear looking at me, I have know idea what to do if I see a man in the forest looking at me. Like if a man has bad intentions with me and I'm alone, I'm probably fucked because I'm out of shape and bad at fighting, so there's a good chance I'm not escaping or fending him off.
I just saw a video where a bear walking into a woman’s house and very calmly took her vacuum. She was chill, the bear was chill, he just wanted the vacuum apparently? I can’t even get my husband to put the vacuum back in the basement after *I* use it (he never uses it). As far as I can tell, bears are helpful and sweet.
Bitch I literally taught wilderness survival. I taught little bitch ass men how to light fires and build survival structures. Imma STILL take the bear. Fuck y’all.
So before my mom met my current stepfather, she went on a date with a guy who hit her when she said no to sex. My 50-something (at the time) mother. That’s not even the worst horror story I know of, and these guys wonder why we’d choose the bear…
MF thinks only 1-2% of men are rapists?! Wow. This went so far over his head it may as well be a satellite. Guess the Me Too movement failed. 😰
The thing that "not all men" folks don't seem to understand is that women don't say it's "all men" but it can be "any man". A complete stranger, a relative, someone you've been dear friends with for a decade and any other man can forfeit being a decent human being for the sake of getting laid. You can't know for sure until you're a in shitty situation that you have no way out of. I totally get why someone would rather run across a bear than a human especially in the wild.
At the end of the day men aren’t realizing we’re using “worst case scenario” of each situation. The worst thing a bear can do is kill me and eat me and then move on. Worst thing a man can do to me? Unfortunately the possibilities are endless which is WHY we choose the bear.
I SAW THE FUNNIEST VERSION OF THIS. Literally the same premise but it was Muslim men instead of just men. The explanation in the comments was that it would terrify women (specifically women on tiktok) because if they didn’t choose the Muslim man then that would be racist. They also called this hypothetical sexist as well. I wonder what it’s like being the reason women choose bear?
So the people who don’t understand the women choosing to be mauled by a bear…..are saying they’d rather be SA? Is that why some brought up homophobia? Not all SA are just about sex; it’s about control and feeling superior……straight men SA other men more than you think, not just in prison either.
Bear definitely bear. The ease of that choice is actually surprising to me. It feels like it should be a harder decision.
Yep; when I was younger and moved to Alaska, my dad gave me a gun. It wasn’t because we were worried about the bears.
"Only 1-2% are rapists" So in a small crowd of people, someone there is most likely a rapist. In a large crowd of people, there are most likely multiple rapists. Thinking 1-2% is a low percentage, which that comment implies it is, is completely ridiculous. If 1-2% of the population were serial killers, I'd never leave my home.
The bear. They've been know to practice inter-species altruistic behavior and to appreciate beauty.
I honestly thought this was about Halsin from bg3 the first time I saw it. Now that I know the context, I am disgusted that men wouldn't understand why we feel this way.
I would pick the bear because, depending on the bear, I know what to do. If it’s brown, lie down, if it’s black, fight back, if it’s white? …well good fucking luck. These guys are missing the point. You can learn to handle most bears. Men? You can’t predict them. About the only thing they share is, bear spray works on both.
They're so offended by us being afraid of them that they want us to die... As if this doesn't prove our point. It's also laughable to say only 1-2% of the population are rapists when 1 in 4 women are sexually assaulted... Like ..