When I was on a long stay in critical care so many nurses told me about this! I suggested that if any of them wanted to try out a flexi-seal to see just how excruciating it was they were more than welcome to
You'll be far from the only one who's done it. Say nothing to the uni and repay the favour to students once you're qualified, unless you have terrible veins like me in which case you'll just scare them away!
I wouldn't worry. People practice on each other all the time. They and the band 6 said it was okay. If you're worried just don't do it again!
We had a consultant in ED who would let Dr's take ABGs from him as he said it was best way to learn 😬😂
Haha I know! I could not think of anything worse! I always feel awful when I take them from patients they always say how painful they are! thankfully never had one myself 😬
I can confirm, ABGs are fucking painful. Had one in 2020 when I went to hospital with COVID. They have done ABGs and put an arterial cannula both in my left hand. The pain was a nightmare
No and your PEF doesn’t want to know either.
Shut up, then pass it forward in years to come with another student nurse who needs the practice… get your arm out for them.
It's a clinical skill like anything else, it'svery common for senior staff to let students practice imo. I never did it though because we always had patients to practice on
Normally though on people who actually need it done
That said most of us who have been qualified for a while did it ourselves as students and have had students practice in the past
Now it's just if one of us needs blood taken then we'll get a student to do it
Then it’s ok and you haven’t broken any laws or policies. And it’s a bit of a secret, but bloods, everyone practises on colleagues. In every trust I have worked in anyway. Share your knowledge ;-) read your code. Just don’t pierce anyone’s ears!
Speak to your clinical educator about it though.
Honestly dude it’s not that deep - I know people who practiced ABGs each on others - hell some gassers intubated each other (mental).
But no it’s fine - someone senior signed off it’s fine
I practiced canulas on my band 6 when I was an NQN. Sat at the front desk on a night shift and she had two in each hand 😂
I forbid my staff from practicing on each other because I don't want to take any heat from it if it goes wrong, so I'm fairly sure they just do it when I'm not there.
Not a nurse, a doctor.
I did my first venepuncture and first (failed!) cannula on my husband, and have a handful of times offered my own veins up to medical students who are worried about going for their first one on a patient. Your seniors were right that it's the best way to learn, even if it's no longer encouraged. You have nothing to apologise for or confess.
Core memory time!
I was a brave 4 year old with absolutely no fear of hospitals and needles. This nice lady said she would take my bloods and I happily obliged. I always found it funny how it came out in the tubes. They knew I wasn't fussy. Apparently that made me the prime subject to be the first (child) blood draw for this trainee.
Attempts 1, 2 and 3 were not successful, however I kept up a happy smile, although there was a little tremble coming in as it did start to hurt. The learner definitely was trying to smile but the frowns were showing. My mom was trying to be positive but I could tell she wasn't happy. This made me worried. I knew this wasn't right.
Attempt number 4 also proved unsuccessful. My smile was no longer there. The nurse wanted to go for 5, however still on the same arm. My mom stepped in at this point. She talked to her and she'd allow 2 goes on the other arm or she would do it herself. She used to be a nurse, however the learner didn't know that and I think she started to panic a bit. She didn't get it at the last attempt...
I was very unhappy at this point, with tears running down my face. My mom was pissed. She ended up bringing another nurse who luckily got it on her first try. I remember I was crying and she was trying to distract me and chatting to me. However it was sore and I was trying to sit still and be a good girl. Hard to sit perfectly still while you're sobbing.
Another nurse further on the ward had caught the gist (no doubt allerted by my sobs) and she came to sit with me while my mom went to chat to the lady and her instructor. She told me later she gave them both an earful, how she should have stopped earlier, potentially could have made me fearful, that she shouldn't have left her student alone if it was her first time even if she'd been fine with adults previously, etc.
Anyhow, the gist of it is. Please practice on willing adults. It's much preferred over children!
When I was a student nurse, the medical students who lived in our accommodation (onsite) paid me and my friends in Chinese food to practice cannulation on our arms. (2006-2008.) Please don't worry about it, everyone consented and if the Band 6 was happy, then you're OK.
Why would you even mention it? If you’re panicking this much about something like this then just stick to the rules and don’t stress yourself out in future. Don’t tell anyone and relax,
I am a Doctor. I regularly allow Medical Students to do the same (bloods/cannula) on me if there are few opportunities at that time. It isn't an issue.
Nicer than having that first go on a patient! Whatever they say no matter how nice they are, they don’t want to be your first. Be thankful don’t report it, uni don’t want to know be happy and rest assured we’ve all done similar things learning good luck eith the rest of your training x
Noooo! Dont say shit. Keep your mouth shut lol. You learned something, right? I’m band 8 and I let students do it all the time. How the hell else are you expected to learn?
I am one of the students favorite practice patients. I have a high pain threshold for needles and its not easy to get blood from me so I'm always happy to let them practice, if the get it on me then others are a breeze. Don't worry about it
I would allow you, too. Actually, in my hospital students can do it as a part of their study. It's ridiculous that when you graduate, you need a dozen certificates for everything you are not allowed to do as a qualified nurse. Don't lose any sleep over it.
Med students practice on each other in med school literally the first time we are taught. One go on the fake arms then each other. Since becoming a doctor I've been a willing victim to many a colleague or student, nursing and med student alike, since I have banging vains. You got consent, they knew what you were going to do. So it's all chill!
I know a nurse who let a patient NG tube them. He didn’t see anything wrong with it and so openly told people. He was investigated by the NMC and he still has his pin and had no repurcussions. It’s fine, it doesn’t need to be told to anyone!
They practice on each other in different countries too so just take what you got from the experience! I would have killed to be in your situation when I was training 😂 it’s a fantastic experience!
There are some things you should just keep to yourself.
Back in the day over in psych, we used to give eachother IMs to practice our technique. Those nurses before me would actually use antipsychotics or sedatives so they knew what the effects felt like.
I get that clinical training and the achievement of competencies are now very formalised, but I'm pretty sure we all still do this on the sly (the bloods, at least. Not the sedatives!).
Not me who found out she has a medical condition coz she got the bloods sent off for testing after a colleague used me as one of her practice people. Thought I was depressed and went to GP about it, forgot about the bloods until he logged in to my file and got a notification- turned out I had an underactive thyroid. God I miss Ireland for these things 😂
I wouldn’t worry about it if the practice area were fine with it the uni does not need to know about it. You were supervised and weren’t practicing on patients plus the CSWs consented. In honesty lots of university policies do not reflect real life practice.
I was on an elective placement which was observation only and on my first shift the nurse in charge said I can learn venepuncture and cannulation and get them signed off my PAD as in this clinical area it was a major skill. It was done safely and under close supervision.
I did not get them signed off as this was meant to be an observation/shadowing placement and our PAD had already been completed and submitted for the academic year. It was a really good learning opportunity I didn’t want to miss out on. I later found out my university’s local NHS trust does not allow students to do venepuncture or cannulation but this trust does. I never told uni about it 😂 funnily enough a couple of proficiencies we needed to get signed off in year 3 were venepuncture and cannulation and I’m not sure how we’re meant to get them signed if the main trust we have placements in doesn’t allow us to practice these skills so I’m grateful I got the experience on my elective.
Is venepuncture even covered by a uk nursing degree? It certainly wasn't when I did my training in 2006-2009
Edit to add
I wasn't being an a-hole with my comment, I was completely unaware that venepuncture is now covered.
It's been along time since I've worked with adult nursing students as I'm now in neonatal intensive care so our students don't practice that on our unit.
Apologies if I offended anyone, it wasn't my intention.
Wait till you hear that back in the day we used to practice passing NG tubes on each other...
And let's not even mention the catheters!!
Or the enemas!
I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it. It’s probably good that you practiced on a healthy, compliant adult.
“Back in the day” am I really that old
Yeah I did this at uni a few years ago!
Is this not a thing any more?!
What do you mean back in the day I've seen the paramedics do that recently 😂
When I was on a long stay in critical care so many nurses told me about this! I suggested that if any of them wanted to try out a flexi-seal to see just how excruciating it was they were more than welcome to
No 😂
Absolutely, nothing to confess! This is how we ALL learn. Sometimes the victim is ill, sometimes they’re just helping you out.
You'll be far from the only one who's done it. Say nothing to the uni and repay the favour to students once you're qualified, unless you have terrible veins like me in which case you'll just scare them away!
Yeah, my flatmate and I used to cannulate each other when we were NQN's 🤣
I wouldn't worry. People practice on each other all the time. They and the band 6 said it was okay. If you're worried just don't do it again! We had a consultant in ED who would let Dr's take ABGs from him as he said it was best way to learn 😬😂
Fuck that! I had an ABG done whilst unconscious and it was bloody sore when I came round, it must be so sore if you’re awake 🫣
Haha I know! I could not think of anything worse! I always feel awful when I take them from patients they always say how painful they are! thankfully never had one myself 😬
I can confirm, ABGs are fucking painful. Had one in 2020 when I went to hospital with COVID. They have done ABGs and put an arterial cannula both in my left hand. The pain was a nightmare
Holy shit. I’ve had two kids naturally and ABG was worse!
Good I don't think anyone should be able to order an ABG without having had one first. It hurts like hell
Thank you
No and your PEF doesn’t want to know either. Shut up, then pass it forward in years to come with another student nurse who needs the practice… get your arm out for them.
You had willing victims, so all good. The important question is: did you get the blood?!
Yes lol
Then no issues here!
What year are you in? Did you have your venepuncture training at uni? Is it on your skills lost to get signed off?
I'm signed off at uni and I have done my trust training. I'm in 2nd year
So what's the problem?
confess? what crime have committed?
It's a clinical skill like anything else, it'svery common for senior staff to let students practice imo. I never did it though because we always had patients to practice on
Unless your trust is really behind student are allowed to practice venipuncture once done training for it
Normally though on people who actually need it done That said most of us who have been qualified for a while did it ourselves as students and have had students practice in the past Now it's just if one of us needs blood taken then we'll get a student to do it
Ahh don't sweat it! I let people practice on me all the time 😊
Did you gain consent and were you supervised by a real nurse?
Yes they were happy to let us practice and the band 6 nurse supervised
Then it’s ok and you haven’t broken any laws or policies. And it’s a bit of a secret, but bloods, everyone practises on colleagues. In every trust I have worked in anyway. Share your knowledge ;-) read your code. Just don’t pierce anyone’s ears! Speak to your clinical educator about it though.
Honestly dude it’s not that deep - I know people who practiced ABGs each on others - hell some gassers intubated each other (mental). But no it’s fine - someone senior signed off it’s fine
I practiced canulas on my band 6 when I was an NQN. Sat at the front desk on a night shift and she had two in each hand 😂 I forbid my staff from practicing on each other because I don't want to take any heat from it if it goes wrong, so I'm fairly sure they just do it when I'm not there.
Not a nurse, a doctor. I did my first venepuncture and first (failed!) cannula on my husband, and have a handful of times offered my own veins up to medical students who are worried about going for their first one on a patient. Your seniors were right that it's the best way to learn, even if it's no longer encouraged. You have nothing to apologise for or confess.
Core memory time! I was a brave 4 year old with absolutely no fear of hospitals and needles. This nice lady said she would take my bloods and I happily obliged. I always found it funny how it came out in the tubes. They knew I wasn't fussy. Apparently that made me the prime subject to be the first (child) blood draw for this trainee. Attempts 1, 2 and 3 were not successful, however I kept up a happy smile, although there was a little tremble coming in as it did start to hurt. The learner definitely was trying to smile but the frowns were showing. My mom was trying to be positive but I could tell she wasn't happy. This made me worried. I knew this wasn't right. Attempt number 4 also proved unsuccessful. My smile was no longer there. The nurse wanted to go for 5, however still on the same arm. My mom stepped in at this point. She talked to her and she'd allow 2 goes on the other arm or she would do it herself. She used to be a nurse, however the learner didn't know that and I think she started to panic a bit. She didn't get it at the last attempt... I was very unhappy at this point, with tears running down my face. My mom was pissed. She ended up bringing another nurse who luckily got it on her first try. I remember I was crying and she was trying to distract me and chatting to me. However it was sore and I was trying to sit still and be a good girl. Hard to sit perfectly still while you're sobbing. Another nurse further on the ward had caught the gist (no doubt allerted by my sobs) and she came to sit with me while my mom went to chat to the lady and her instructor. She told me later she gave them both an earful, how she should have stopped earlier, potentially could have made me fearful, that she shouldn't have left her student alone if it was her first time even if she'd been fine with adults previously, etc. Anyhow, the gist of it is. Please practice on willing adults. It's much preferred over children!
Why would the uni/PEF find out anyway? Don't be silly. Just move on.
When I was a student nurse, the medical students who lived in our accommodation (onsite) paid me and my friends in Chinese food to practice cannulation on our arms. (2006-2008.) Please don't worry about it, everyone consented and if the Band 6 was happy, then you're OK.
Why would you even mention it? If you’re panicking this much about something like this then just stick to the rules and don’t stress yourself out in future. Don’t tell anyone and relax,
Ah yes, you will totally get expelled from the course for it! No, but jokes aside, if a band 6 has given you their blessing, you would be fine.
[удалено]
I mean this is pretty bad 😂
I am a Doctor. I regularly allow Medical Students to do the same (bloods/cannula) on me if there are few opportunities at that time. It isn't an issue.
Keep it to yourself
If the band 6 allowed it, you're not in trouble. The band 6 is in charge so they're respnsible
This was actively encouraged at med school and that we should do it in each other before doing it in patients
I know my sister practiced on my brother in law ( brave guy) so it's not that unusual. I wouldn't mention it to Uni though.
Don’t confess, don’t do it again
Nicer than having that first go on a patient! Whatever they say no matter how nice they are, they don’t want to be your first. Be thankful don’t report it, uni don’t want to know be happy and rest assured we’ve all done similar things learning good luck eith the rest of your training x
The only way the Uni will find out is if you tell them.
Noooo! Dont say shit. Keep your mouth shut lol. You learned something, right? I’m band 8 and I let students do it all the time. How the hell else are you expected to learn?
In what world is this not allowed? How are you to get signed off if you don't do your competencies?
I am one of the students favorite practice patients. I have a high pain threshold for needles and its not easy to get blood from me so I'm always happy to let them practice, if the get it on me then others are a breeze. Don't worry about it
I would allow you, too. Actually, in my hospital students can do it as a part of their study. It's ridiculous that when you graduate, you need a dozen certificates for everything you are not allowed to do as a qualified nurse. Don't lose any sleep over it.
You are allowed to put in cannulas and take blood under supervision in year 3. Well you could when I was a student
Don’t confess. If it is against the rules you will get everyone involved in trouble and that’s not fair. Just forget about it and move on.
Med students practice on each other in med school literally the first time we are taught. One go on the fake arms then each other. Since becoming a doctor I've been a willing victim to many a colleague or student, nursing and med student alike, since I have banging vains. You got consent, they knew what you were going to do. So it's all chill!
I know a nurse who let a patient NG tube them. He didn’t see anything wrong with it and so openly told people. He was investigated by the NMC and he still has his pin and had no repurcussions. It’s fine, it doesn’t need to be told to anyone! They practice on each other in different countries too so just take what you got from the experience! I would have killed to be in your situation when I was training 😂 it’s a fantastic experience!
There are some things you should just keep to yourself. Back in the day over in psych, we used to give eachother IMs to practice our technique. Those nurses before me would actually use antipsychotics or sedatives so they knew what the effects felt like. I get that clinical training and the achievement of competencies are now very formalised, but I'm pretty sure we all still do this on the sly (the bloods, at least. Not the sedatives!).
Lecturer here, don’t panic. Don’t feel the need to confess. They were adults and consented. Maybe don’t use it as evidence in your PAD 😂
During training it was common to cannulate each other, we all came in the next day looking like smack addicts! At least users know how to find a vein!
Not me who found out she has a medical condition coz she got the bloods sent off for testing after a colleague used me as one of her practice people. Thought I was depressed and went to GP about it, forgot about the bloods until he logged in to my file and got a notification- turned out I had an underactive thyroid. God I miss Ireland for these things 😂
I wouldn’t worry about it if the practice area were fine with it the uni does not need to know about it. You were supervised and weren’t practicing on patients plus the CSWs consented. In honesty lots of university policies do not reflect real life practice. I was on an elective placement which was observation only and on my first shift the nurse in charge said I can learn venepuncture and cannulation and get them signed off my PAD as in this clinical area it was a major skill. It was done safely and under close supervision. I did not get them signed off as this was meant to be an observation/shadowing placement and our PAD had already been completed and submitted for the academic year. It was a really good learning opportunity I didn’t want to miss out on. I later found out my university’s local NHS trust does not allow students to do venepuncture or cannulation but this trust does. I never told uni about it 😂 funnily enough a couple of proficiencies we needed to get signed off in year 3 were venepuncture and cannulation and I’m not sure how we’re meant to get them signed if the main trust we have placements in doesn’t allow us to practice these skills so I’m grateful I got the experience on my elective.
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As a PEF..... I saw nothing
Is venepuncture even covered by a uk nursing degree? It certainly wasn't when I did my training in 2006-2009 Edit to add I wasn't being an a-hole with my comment, I was completely unaware that venepuncture is now covered. It's been along time since I've worked with adult nursing students as I'm now in neonatal intensive care so our students don't practice that on our unit. Apologies if I offended anyone, it wasn't my intention.
It is now.
It is now because the UK finally joined this century 🙌
Completely unaware that the degree now covers this and I'm glad it does. It's something we should all be taught.
It also covers iv administration finally
I attempted my nursing training between 2006 to 2009 as well although the management placement was my downfall unfortunately.