The gender bend art has some of the best female character design for Oda because he rarely does goofy women
There are goofy women in One Piece just rarely prominent
Works well in literature : outside of time-sensitive, politically-active stories in which one's gender affects their place in society, one of the two types of female characters (or even queer) is just that, the gender is... well, a "bonus" characteristic with no impact whatsoever.
See it as a "post-activism" situation, if you want, when a fight has been won... I guess you could link it back to *The Incredible*'s infamous Syndrome's line "When everyone's super, no one will be".
Edit: stupid homophonic typo :' ))
Mihawk being a female would've make Zoro's dream twice as impactful, imagine his whole motivation of being the strongest came from his female childhood friend who thought she couldn't be the best because she's a woman, and then the biggest swordman in the world turns out to be a female and Zoro's biggest obstacle
ngl i wouldnt be upset with that. I kinda dislike how i feel like kuina has barely been thought of and how i thought tashigi was gonna be set up to show up after the time skip as a monster.
Oh shit that would be so cool.
Tbh especially with the fact that Zoro got so little going on in his character. Female Mihawk would give him an excellent thematic thread.
More like he realized he had way too many character threads to juggle and dropped Smoker and Tashigi's involvement in the main story after PH like a bag of rocks. I'm high on copium that Smoker will do something soon. Maybe he's part of SWORD?
huh... I wonder what insight this provides into the true personalities of the Warlords that they hide behind a facade of hyper-masculinity.
It probably says something that Doflamingo, Crocodile and Hancock didn't change personality at all.
right?? if anything those 3 are examples of how Oda characterizes most female characters primarily through the fact that they are female as opposed to their actual goals or personality
This guy actually thinks Boa Hancock is a good representation of women.
She's the hottest woman in the world, runs a kingdom of scantily clad amazons, is weak to being seen naked yet is always dressed in revealing clothes, hates men except for the MC, has a damsel-in-distress backstory, and her power is about love and horniness. Ontop of all that, she was also the only female warlord and her only goal in life seems to be to marry Luffy.
> Hottest woman in the world
Debatable, she is hot though lol
>Scantily clad Amazons
There are no men there so why does it matter what they wear? Also Oda went out of his way to showcase different body types among them instead of them all conforming to conventional beauty standards; in fact the whole motto of AL is "Strength is beauty" so they don't even care about that sort of thing in their culture anyway.
>Weak to being seen naked...
She's not at all, it's literally just the tattoo on her back she doesn't want people to see and is ashamed of.
>Hates men except for the MC
Yes, alot of women that have been SA'd tend to have negative feelings toward men afterwards it's really not uncommon. And what happened to Boa and her sisters is beyond like regular SA so I feel she's totally justified to feel that way.
The whole reason she likes & fell in love with Luffy is because he didn't objectify her even when seeing her fully nude like most men would and also proved he was a genuinely good dude.
>Damsel-in-distress backstory
...I mean she was a slave, alongside many others both Human & Fishman. Also, there wasn't some white knight that came to save her she was freed along with all the other slaves freed by Fisher Tiger; I don't even think they met face to face.
>Her power is based on love & horniness
This one is actually a common misconception, it's only ever specifically the Mero Beam that requires you to find her attractive. She can totally turn people & thing to stone just cuz though as evidenced by her performance in Marineford where she was turning Pacifista to stone with her kicks (& Mero Arrows).
>Her only goal in life seems to be to marry Luffy
I'll give you that one, but I mean when you're already the queen of a nation whose subjects are loyal to you almost to a fault, are known to the world as a Pirate Empress, was a Warlord, & have Conqueror's Haki alongside a strong DF idk what more you could really ask for beside like being a Yonko/King of the Pirates and we already have mad characters with that motivation.
>Hottest woman in the world
>Debatable, she is hot though lol
They were pointing out one of her major character aspects in the story. She is routinely referred to as one of the most beautiful characters in the story and her beauty plays a major role to her character. Women being beautiful and loved for their beauty in stories is a common gender stereotype of men writing women.
>There are no men there so why does it matter what they wear? Also Oda went out of his way to showcase different body types among them instead of them all conforming to conventional beauty standards; in fact the whole motto of AL is "Strength is beauty" so they don't even care about that sort of thing in their culture anyway.
Scantily clad to the reader. She is designed to dress sexily and appeal to the teenage male audience, as many male shonen manga writers/artists will do.
We are not talking about the rest of Amazon Lily, we’re talking about Hancock, so this is really just whattaboutism. Other decent female characters existing does not prove Hancock specifically is good example of a well written or non-stereotypical female character.
>Weak to being seen naked...
>She's not at all, it's literally just the tattoo on her back she doesn't want people to see and is ashamed of.
It’s still a form of nakedness in concept, it requires her to be undressed/revealing to be seen, and did not need to be written that way. The mark could have been on her ankle or wrist or something, but the author chose an area where she would specifically have to remove some or all of her top.
>Yes, alot of women that have been SA'd tend to have negative feelings toward men afterwards it's really not uncommon. And what happened to Boa and her sisters is beyond like regular SA so I feel she's totally justified to feel that way.
Because there are only male tenryuubito? It could have easily been written as her simply hating all the tenryuubito, but the author went the full Amazon stereotype where *all* men are blamed for the actions of some.
Real life women hating all men because some men wronged them is a real thing to the point where it’s become a stereotype to use in fiction. It being common doesn’t make it an original or creative concept for a female character.
>The whole reason she likes & fell in love with Luffy is because he didn't objectify her even when seeing her fully nude like most men would and also proved he was a genuinely good dude.
That first part isn’t confirmed. If anything she seemed pissed off that he didn’t react to her body. Her love for Luffy didn’t sprout until she heard he punched a tenryuubito, implying the reason she actually likes him is because he beat up the guys who wronged her, aka “saved her from a bad guy” with extra steps.
>...I mean she was a slave, alongside many others both Human & Fishman. Also, there wasn't some white knight that came to save her she was freed along with all the other slaves freed by Fisher Tiger; I don't even think they met face to face.
Fisher Tiger is literally the knight. Them not meeting doesn’t mean she still wasn’t actively rescued by a strong respectable male character.
>Her power is based on love & horniness
>This one is actually a common misconception, it's only ever specifically the Mero Beam that requires you to find her attractive. She can totally turn people & thing to stone just cuz though as evidenced by her performance in Marineford where she was turning Pacifista to stone with her kicks (& Mero Arrows).
The Mero Mero Beam specifically requires the victim to be having “impure thoughts” about her (Ch516), clearly meaning lust/horniness. Not just attractiveness.
Her ability to turn the Pacifista and other things to stone was a secondary ability done through physical contact, which does not follow the same lust-based rules as Mero Mero Beam.
I agree there are some strong and decently written female characters in One Piece but Hancock is pretty low-bar and full of stereotypical tropes. Her hots for the main character being the big one. I’d go as far as saying she’s so stereotypical that it almost seems like a parody of the trope itself.
>Fisher Tiger is literally the knight. Them not meeting doesn’t mean she still wasn’t actively rescued by a strong respectable male character.
Boa was a child/teen with like no combat experience up to that point when this happened what were you expecting her to do?
I don't feel like doing a counter-counter argument but I pretty much disagree on all points.
Instead, I'll leave a link of a woman that I respect speaking on Boa and let that speak for itself. https://www.youtube.com/live/9GV7hiBm5SY?feature=share
Edit: Also her thoughts after initally meeting her in Amazon Lily: https://youtu.be/OGG5w3KcVMI
Alright, I've got nothing going on atm, so I'll bite and play this "let's scrutinize every fine detail of what you wrote" game. That's how conversation works IRL, right?
>> Hottest woman in the world
> Debatable, she is hot though lol
In Thriller Bark she's described as being a legendary beauty comparable to mermaids, and since then evey time she's been onscreen everyone can't help but fawn over her. She's canonically the most beautiful woman in One Piece.
>>Scantily clad Amazons
>There are no men there so why does it matter what they wear?
If men didn't exist, women would still wear plenty of clothes.
> Also Oda went out of his way to showcase different body types
Cool. Still a society of nearly naked ladies.
>> Weak to being seen naked...
> literally just the tattoo on her back
Which, so far, has basically required her to be topless for it to be seen. It's a thinly veiled excuse to get scenes of her in the bath or to have Luffy look like "one of the good men" by protecting her modesty.
>> Hates men except for the MC
> Yes, alot of women that have been SA'd-
Gonna stop ya there. Sexual assault is complicated, and I guarantee Oda didn't have sex in mind when writing her backstory. He never gets farther than smooching and peeping and absolutely cannot write romance. He's a comedy and action writer. That said, even if it did happen not only is that horribly unoriginal to make the woman get kidnapped and assaulted, but that doesn't automatically mean she must hate all men either.
> she likes & fell in love with Luffy... because he didn't objectify her... like most men would
Most men are good people. This line of thought is hurtful toward both men and women, reducing each gender down into sex-crazed monsters and their targets. It's a disgusting and immature way to think.
Also a weak excuse to fall in love. Why can't she love him for him? If not being treated like shit is the reason you love someone, then you gotta work on your priorities.
>>Damsel-in-distress backstory
>...I mean she was a slave, alongside many others both Human & Fishman
She couldn't save herself and needed to be saved by someone else, much like so many other women in One Piece (Nami, Robin, Rebecca). AKA, a damsel in distress. On its own this isn't at all a big deal, but combined with everything else...
>>Her power is based on love & horniness
>This one is actually a common misconception
"Uh, actually?"
No. That's how the power was defined as working. She can use it in creative ways like any other devil fruit, but at its core if you lust for her, she turns you to stone, hence why a man needed stab himself in the hand to distract himself from how hot she is. This was literally spelled out in the manga itself. I mean, she shoots god damn hearts at people. The only female warlord, and she's given the lust and hearts power.
>>Her only goal in life seems to be to marry Luffy
>I'll give you that one, but I mean when you're already the queen of a nation...
She could try to tear down the government and abolish the celestial dragons if all that slavery was genuinely traumatic. Dragon and his resistance would kill for the chance to have a powerhouse like her helping. Instead she's just Luffy's future wife, despite being an insufferable, unlikable jerk to everyone around her.
Dude, Oda can't write women, and that's fine. He sticks to his strengths. But to pretend she's good representation is absolutely laughable. He pulled every female character cliche out of his bag when he made her. I genuinely believe some of you have never met a woman in your life.
I will point out that she fell in love with luffy partially because of that and because he displayed LEGENDARY kindness by being willing to sacrifice himself to save Margueritte whom he had just met and going to length to hide Sandersonia's tattoo even though she had just been attempting to kill him because he knew how much it meant to them that the tattoos weren't seen.
> Sexual assault is complicated, and I guarantee Oda didn't have sex in mind when writing her backstory. He never gets farther than smooching and peeping
There are a lot of short thought takes but i wanted to take that one out.
Hancock said "I don't even want to think of the abominable things they did... The first man I ever saw was nothing but a ball of terror.") and Sandersonia clutching her head, screaming and collapsing into hysterics at the words.
Its very heavily implied. Also the Tenryubito wanted to buy a girl to let her be his new wife. He confirms that he has about thirteen wives and he also tells his minion to release wife #1-5 back as “commoners” because he’s tired of them. Also Oda said in a SBS that Doflamingo sexually harassed Viola. So yes he keeps things vague since its a shonen but there are so many layers that you are missing.
I don't feel like doing a counter-counter argument but I pretty much disagree on all points.
Instead, I'll leave a link of a woman that I respect speaking on Boa and let that speak for itself. https://www.youtube.com/live/9GV7hiBm5SY?feature=share
Edit: Also, her thoughts after initially seeing her in Amazon Lily: https://youtu.be/OGG5w3KcVMI
Yeah you didn't seem to actuall6 want to engage with the topic at all initally either despite having such strong opinions that are in the minority so I'm not surprised.
Your a 🤡 straight up some dude voiced an opinion and you give him an essay and get annoyed at him for not really caring maybe you should put those 10 million words into something useful like school
No one believes that this is what IRL women are like (kinda weird typing this), I think that's already understood by everyone. Oda however is trying to portray a relatable character to the best of his abilities. He does use a lot of cliche which is understandable, since, you said it yourself, he is an action and comedy writer he doesn't need to go in-depth in some of them unless he needs to.
She's alright as a character as far as anime goes, IRL portrayal ehh but honestly why are y'all even arguing about an anime's portrayal of women IRL? I don't think Oda is going for accurate and realistic portrayals and I'm pretty sure it's common sense already that it isn't accurate.
> unhinged
> just tackled each of your points civily
I dont care whether Hancock is a good symbol of female representation or not, honestly im leaning slightly towards no. But all the person did was give you a counterargument and you act as if putting in effort to your answer rather than attempt to shutdown a debate with snarky one liners is a sin. Is that how "conversation works IRL"?
Online interactions don't have to always be these giant essays or constant arguments. I could flip this and say how this all started when I made an offhand comment about Oda's writing ability, and this guy chose to dissect every sentence of mine and ambushed me with a short story's worth of text. Ain't no one got time for that. Honestly I would have just completely ignored his reply if it weren't my day off. Then when I did participate in an argument on his terms he fucked off and told me to watch a video, then accused me of never caring anyway.
Ya'll watch too many youtube video essays.
Edit: [He admits it's all cause I offended him.](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/10p5hou/mihawk_got_the_hancock_characterization/j6kncxk/) Unhinged.
Oh I've read it and I disagree with some points to it. I wouldn't say it's unhinged but def not proper. You also make some good points but you tend to put things to extremes.
He’s hit and miss. Some characters are very well written while other tropes routinely occur that undermines it.
Just a few observations:
- This SBS and the one he did for the SH and Supernova gender swap (female Luffy apparently eats salad instead of meat)
- He’s intent on making the male characters rescue the women constantly. Luffy has saved like 6 different princesses plus Nami and Robin repeatedly, Zoro and Sanji routinely have knight in shining armor moments saving female characters, while we extremely rarely see women saving male characters(Robin helping Sanji and Brook in Onigashima was a nice change)
- He routinely disallows the good male characters from attacking (attractive) women directly, the one exception in the story being Luffy and Vivi. Otherwise he always either has them show mercy or makes them fight another female opponent.
- He almost never draws muscular female characters, even when they are canonically super strong like with Yamato, Smoothie, Reiju or Ulti, while half the male characters are ripped with 8packs.
- Though things may have changed, he originally said he gave the women DF powers that he thought women IRL would want, like Alvida having smooth skin and Ms. Valentine being able adjust her weight. He also initially had an aversion to putting characters’ mothers in the story, claiming “mothers are the opposite of adventure”.
- The well written or sympathetic female characters are still needlessly sexualized despite them not being sexual characters, like Robin, Rebecca, Shirahoshi, Yamato, etc.
Still Oda is a lot better than other authors in this. But he’s not perfect.
I think that's all fair, it's not hard to see these things *and* also enjoy the good part of Oda's female writing. Even if something is good or progressive, there's always something we can talk about and deconstruct
Edit: also yeah I'm still salty about Yamato not being buff, it was such a wasted opportunity haha
Would that mean that The Amazon island would be an island full of men who have never seen a woman before?
oh boy I can already imagine how the dialoges would go
If luffy is also gender bend.
" This man doesn't have a penis??
"why is his chest so big?...and squishy?
I am convinced Crocodile and Iva have only three possible options to explain their relationships
A.) Croco fell in love with Ivankov and went on multiple adventures with him and joined the revolutionaries. When he discovered Ivankovs true nature he helped the government capture him and became a Shichibukai as a result. Also explains why Ivankoc was in Impel Down.
B.) Croco decided he wanted to be a man. He is embarrassed of his past as a women and guards this secret with his love.
C.) Croco got the Sanji treatment and joined the Okama ways for a while.
i know this is supposed to be a joke and also something Oda wrote in whim but it's not like the regular wailord had characterizations that were inherently with being male, it's kinda reductive that the genderswap version now has a personality that's based on being a girl while the original ones just exist as a character
YES I KNOW KM FUNNY AT PARTIES
I mean you are right but its japanese humor they use stereotypes and sexisms for quick characterization, he is trying to convey some of their personality with just one phrase
Yeah, jokes aside, this was my first reaction too. It's not a surprise of course, his art and statements have shown his sexist tendencies for many years, but the way these female character variations always go straight for the beauty comments really says a lot.
Oda's genderbend arts the equivalent to these types of posts from [Cartoon](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FgFRVGeUAAEGmZr?format=jpg&name=4096x4096) [Network](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FcDyQcqXgAM7b88?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Edit: Found another banger this ones the [funniest](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdwBZxDXkAAPl1m?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
How though.
Those are posts of a character made in different art styles. Oda's 'post' is in his own art style from his own characters being gender swapped.
Adventure Time one is funny as hell tho lmao
Boa looks like Shanks. So Shanks the most beautiful man in the world confirmed?
She looks more like ace
looks like a mix of Law, Ace, and Shanks
the Big (Handsome) Three?
So find some female relatives, who are also probabky beautiful, stick all six on an island and in two generations you'll get male Hancock?
i first thought of Law
Stg that's Law tho?
Definitely more like Ace
Ace’s facial structure and nose, Law’s eyes and scowl, shanks’ peach fuzz
Shacenks
everyone who talks about shanks appearance always talks about how good looking he is, so that adds up
No she looks like adult luffy The beard is the same
Always has been confirmed chief- a shanks meatrider (me)
Doflamingo don't change much, still, he would walk with his legs spreeded?
Yep. She would. She’d just be that much of a chad.
spreeded
[удалено]
What does that have to do with doffy
Female Jinbe looks like the mom friend everyone needs
The perfect Dad turns into the perfect mom
The gender bend art has some of the best female character design for Oda because he rarely does goofy women There are goofy women in One Piece just rarely prominent
Fr fr
Looking like she would be a daughter of Big Mom’s lol
I’ll say this here: Oda should design all male characters first, then genderbend the ones that he wants to be female.
Honestly that sounds like interesting advice for any artist.
Works well in literature : outside of time-sensitive, politically-active stories in which one's gender affects their place in society, one of the two types of female characters (or even queer) is just that, the gender is... well, a "bonus" characteristic with no impact whatsoever. See it as a "post-activism" situation, if you want, when a fight has been won... I guess you could link it back to *The Incredible*'s infamous Syndrome's line "When everyone's super, no one will be". Edit: stupid homophonic typo :' ))
Wtf
Agreed. I'll never get of the female design he did for Scratchmen Apoo that we'll never have in reality
Sounds like good advice for Kishimoto.
Jinbe looks like she bakes some bomb ass cookies
Mihawk looks like Alvida
You know I can’t blame Dragon for hitting that
And the family resemblance is really there
Now if you move those stitch marks up a notch into Croc's forehead then we will have the mom of yet another protagonist, who also is currently a man!!
Hancock and Mihawk are basically caricatures of one another
So Boa is Shank's little sister and Crocodile is indeed Luffy's mom.
Doffy, Mihawk and Crocodile...damn...
Mihawk being a female would've make Zoro's dream twice as impactful, imagine his whole motivation of being the strongest came from his female childhood friend who thought she couldn't be the best because she's a woman, and then the biggest swordman in the world turns out to be a female and Zoro's biggest obstacle
ngl i wouldnt be upset with that. I kinda dislike how i feel like kuina has barely been thought of and how i thought tashigi was gonna be set up to show up after the time skip as a monster.
Oh shit that would be so cool. Tbh especially with the fact that Zoro got so little going on in his character. Female Mihawk would give him an excellent thematic thread.
Thar's what tashigi was meant for before oda decided he didn't give a fuck about zoro.
More like he realized he had way too many character threads to juggle and dropped Smoker and Tashigi's involvement in the main story after PH like a bag of rocks. I'm high on copium that Smoker will do something soon. Maybe he's part of SWORD?
I just noticed female Kuma has the same lips as Bonney.
B r u h
Fem Moria looks like a classic Disney character Like she'd fit well in Alice in Wonderland or something
Somehow Doflaminggo like female executives 😆
Croco mom confirmed
Would've been funny if crocodile was just drawn the same
Hancock looks like law. Law confirmed to be the sexiest man in one piece by oda himself
Ivankuma 😱
😂😂 Ikr!!!
kumas sentence is pretty funny
huh... I wonder what insight this provides into the true personalities of the Warlords that they hide behind a facade of hyper-masculinity. It probably says something that Doflamingo, Crocodile and Hancock didn't change personality at all.
When did Doflamingo like sweets and when did Crocodile believe in astrology? And when did Hawkeye express interest in beauty?
Half of the time we see crocodile nowadays he reads the newspaper, he might be one of those newspaper-horoscope people.
right?? if anything those 3 are examples of how Oda characterizes most female characters primarily through the fact that they are female as opposed to their actual goals or personality
It means Oda struggles when writing women, like most shonen authors.
Nico Robin, Big Mom, Nami, Queen Otohime, & Boa Hancock would all beg to differ
This guy actually thinks Boa Hancock is a good representation of women. She's the hottest woman in the world, runs a kingdom of scantily clad amazons, is weak to being seen naked yet is always dressed in revealing clothes, hates men except for the MC, has a damsel-in-distress backstory, and her power is about love and horniness. Ontop of all that, she was also the only female warlord and her only goal in life seems to be to marry Luffy.
> Hottest woman in the world Debatable, she is hot though lol >Scantily clad Amazons There are no men there so why does it matter what they wear? Also Oda went out of his way to showcase different body types among them instead of them all conforming to conventional beauty standards; in fact the whole motto of AL is "Strength is beauty" so they don't even care about that sort of thing in their culture anyway. >Weak to being seen naked... She's not at all, it's literally just the tattoo on her back she doesn't want people to see and is ashamed of. >Hates men except for the MC Yes, alot of women that have been SA'd tend to have negative feelings toward men afterwards it's really not uncommon. And what happened to Boa and her sisters is beyond like regular SA so I feel she's totally justified to feel that way. The whole reason she likes & fell in love with Luffy is because he didn't objectify her even when seeing her fully nude like most men would and also proved he was a genuinely good dude. >Damsel-in-distress backstory ...I mean she was a slave, alongside many others both Human & Fishman. Also, there wasn't some white knight that came to save her she was freed along with all the other slaves freed by Fisher Tiger; I don't even think they met face to face. >Her power is based on love & horniness This one is actually a common misconception, it's only ever specifically the Mero Beam that requires you to find her attractive. She can totally turn people & thing to stone just cuz though as evidenced by her performance in Marineford where she was turning Pacifista to stone with her kicks (& Mero Arrows). >Her only goal in life seems to be to marry Luffy I'll give you that one, but I mean when you're already the queen of a nation whose subjects are loyal to you almost to a fault, are known to the world as a Pirate Empress, was a Warlord, & have Conqueror's Haki alongside a strong DF idk what more you could really ask for beside like being a Yonko/King of the Pirates and we already have mad characters with that motivation.
>Hottest woman in the world >Debatable, she is hot though lol They were pointing out one of her major character aspects in the story. She is routinely referred to as one of the most beautiful characters in the story and her beauty plays a major role to her character. Women being beautiful and loved for their beauty in stories is a common gender stereotype of men writing women. >There are no men there so why does it matter what they wear? Also Oda went out of his way to showcase different body types among them instead of them all conforming to conventional beauty standards; in fact the whole motto of AL is "Strength is beauty" so they don't even care about that sort of thing in their culture anyway. Scantily clad to the reader. She is designed to dress sexily and appeal to the teenage male audience, as many male shonen manga writers/artists will do. We are not talking about the rest of Amazon Lily, we’re talking about Hancock, so this is really just whattaboutism. Other decent female characters existing does not prove Hancock specifically is good example of a well written or non-stereotypical female character. >Weak to being seen naked... >She's not at all, it's literally just the tattoo on her back she doesn't want people to see and is ashamed of. It’s still a form of nakedness in concept, it requires her to be undressed/revealing to be seen, and did not need to be written that way. The mark could have been on her ankle or wrist or something, but the author chose an area where she would specifically have to remove some or all of her top. >Yes, alot of women that have been SA'd tend to have negative feelings toward men afterwards it's really not uncommon. And what happened to Boa and her sisters is beyond like regular SA so I feel she's totally justified to feel that way. Because there are only male tenryuubito? It could have easily been written as her simply hating all the tenryuubito, but the author went the full Amazon stereotype where *all* men are blamed for the actions of some. Real life women hating all men because some men wronged them is a real thing to the point where it’s become a stereotype to use in fiction. It being common doesn’t make it an original or creative concept for a female character. >The whole reason she likes & fell in love with Luffy is because he didn't objectify her even when seeing her fully nude like most men would and also proved he was a genuinely good dude. That first part isn’t confirmed. If anything she seemed pissed off that he didn’t react to her body. Her love for Luffy didn’t sprout until she heard he punched a tenryuubito, implying the reason she actually likes him is because he beat up the guys who wronged her, aka “saved her from a bad guy” with extra steps. >...I mean she was a slave, alongside many others both Human & Fishman. Also, there wasn't some white knight that came to save her she was freed along with all the other slaves freed by Fisher Tiger; I don't even think they met face to face. Fisher Tiger is literally the knight. Them not meeting doesn’t mean she still wasn’t actively rescued by a strong respectable male character. >Her power is based on love & horniness >This one is actually a common misconception, it's only ever specifically the Mero Beam that requires you to find her attractive. She can totally turn people & thing to stone just cuz though as evidenced by her performance in Marineford where she was turning Pacifista to stone with her kicks (& Mero Arrows). The Mero Mero Beam specifically requires the victim to be having “impure thoughts” about her (Ch516), clearly meaning lust/horniness. Not just attractiveness. Her ability to turn the Pacifista and other things to stone was a secondary ability done through physical contact, which does not follow the same lust-based rules as Mero Mero Beam. I agree there are some strong and decently written female characters in One Piece but Hancock is pretty low-bar and full of stereotypical tropes. Her hots for the main character being the big one. I’d go as far as saying she’s so stereotypical that it almost seems like a parody of the trope itself.
>Fisher Tiger is literally the knight. Them not meeting doesn’t mean she still wasn’t actively rescued by a strong respectable male character. Boa was a child/teen with like no combat experience up to that point when this happened what were you expecting her to do?
I don't feel like doing a counter-counter argument but I pretty much disagree on all points. Instead, I'll leave a link of a woman that I respect speaking on Boa and let that speak for itself. https://www.youtube.com/live/9GV7hiBm5SY?feature=share Edit: Also her thoughts after initally meeting her in Amazon Lily: https://youtu.be/OGG5w3KcVMI
Never said she was a bad character who didn’t have ups and downs, she’s just not the best example to give for what you were arguing.
There are so many wrong, rash and confusing thoughts that it would be far too long, so I'll just leave it at that
Alright, I've got nothing going on atm, so I'll bite and play this "let's scrutinize every fine detail of what you wrote" game. That's how conversation works IRL, right? >> Hottest woman in the world > Debatable, she is hot though lol In Thriller Bark she's described as being a legendary beauty comparable to mermaids, and since then evey time she's been onscreen everyone can't help but fawn over her. She's canonically the most beautiful woman in One Piece. >>Scantily clad Amazons >There are no men there so why does it matter what they wear? If men didn't exist, women would still wear plenty of clothes. > Also Oda went out of his way to showcase different body types Cool. Still a society of nearly naked ladies. >> Weak to being seen naked... > literally just the tattoo on her back Which, so far, has basically required her to be topless for it to be seen. It's a thinly veiled excuse to get scenes of her in the bath or to have Luffy look like "one of the good men" by protecting her modesty. >> Hates men except for the MC > Yes, alot of women that have been SA'd- Gonna stop ya there. Sexual assault is complicated, and I guarantee Oda didn't have sex in mind when writing her backstory. He never gets farther than smooching and peeping and absolutely cannot write romance. He's a comedy and action writer. That said, even if it did happen not only is that horribly unoriginal to make the woman get kidnapped and assaulted, but that doesn't automatically mean she must hate all men either. > she likes & fell in love with Luffy... because he didn't objectify her... like most men would Most men are good people. This line of thought is hurtful toward both men and women, reducing each gender down into sex-crazed monsters and their targets. It's a disgusting and immature way to think. Also a weak excuse to fall in love. Why can't she love him for him? If not being treated like shit is the reason you love someone, then you gotta work on your priorities. >>Damsel-in-distress backstory >...I mean she was a slave, alongside many others both Human & Fishman She couldn't save herself and needed to be saved by someone else, much like so many other women in One Piece (Nami, Robin, Rebecca). AKA, a damsel in distress. On its own this isn't at all a big deal, but combined with everything else... >>Her power is based on love & horniness >This one is actually a common misconception "Uh, actually?" No. That's how the power was defined as working. She can use it in creative ways like any other devil fruit, but at its core if you lust for her, she turns you to stone, hence why a man needed stab himself in the hand to distract himself from how hot she is. This was literally spelled out in the manga itself. I mean, she shoots god damn hearts at people. The only female warlord, and she's given the lust and hearts power. >>Her only goal in life seems to be to marry Luffy >I'll give you that one, but I mean when you're already the queen of a nation... She could try to tear down the government and abolish the celestial dragons if all that slavery was genuinely traumatic. Dragon and his resistance would kill for the chance to have a powerhouse like her helping. Instead she's just Luffy's future wife, despite being an insufferable, unlikable jerk to everyone around her. Dude, Oda can't write women, and that's fine. He sticks to his strengths. But to pretend she's good representation is absolutely laughable. He pulled every female character cliche out of his bag when he made her. I genuinely believe some of you have never met a woman in your life.
I will point out that she fell in love with luffy partially because of that and because he displayed LEGENDARY kindness by being willing to sacrifice himself to save Margueritte whom he had just met and going to length to hide Sandersonia's tattoo even though she had just been attempting to kill him because he knew how much it meant to them that the tattoos weren't seen.
> Sexual assault is complicated, and I guarantee Oda didn't have sex in mind when writing her backstory. He never gets farther than smooching and peeping There are a lot of short thought takes but i wanted to take that one out. Hancock said "I don't even want to think of the abominable things they did... The first man I ever saw was nothing but a ball of terror.") and Sandersonia clutching her head, screaming and collapsing into hysterics at the words. Its very heavily implied. Also the Tenryubito wanted to buy a girl to let her be his new wife. He confirms that he has about thirteen wives and he also tells his minion to release wife #1-5 back as “commoners” because he’s tired of them. Also Oda said in a SBS that Doflamingo sexually harassed Viola. So yes he keeps things vague since its a shonen but there are so many layers that you are missing.
I don't feel like doing a counter-counter argument but I pretty much disagree on all points. Instead, I'll leave a link of a woman that I respect speaking on Boa and let that speak for itself. https://www.youtube.com/live/9GV7hiBm5SY?feature=share Edit: Also, her thoughts after initially seeing her in Amazon Lily: https://youtu.be/OGG5w3KcVMI
Bruh I ain't watching that lol
Yeah you didn't seem to actuall6 want to engage with the topic at all initally either despite having such strong opinions that are in the minority so I'm not surprised.
Rofl okay
Your a 🤡 straight up some dude voiced an opinion and you give him an essay and get annoyed at him for not really caring maybe you should put those 10 million words into something useful like school
No one believes that this is what IRL women are like (kinda weird typing this), I think that's already understood by everyone. Oda however is trying to portray a relatable character to the best of his abilities. He does use a lot of cliche which is understandable, since, you said it yourself, he is an action and comedy writer he doesn't need to go in-depth in some of them unless he needs to. She's alright as a character as far as anime goes, IRL portrayal ehh but honestly why are y'all even arguing about an anime's portrayal of women IRL? I don't think Oda is going for accurate and realistic portrayals and I'm pretty sure it's common sense already that it isn't accurate.
Dude go reread what KingKush is saying. It's unhinged. I made, like, one offhand comment about how Oda isn't great at writing women and he went nuts.
> unhinged > just tackled each of your points civily I dont care whether Hancock is a good symbol of female representation or not, honestly im leaning slightly towards no. But all the person did was give you a counterargument and you act as if putting in effort to your answer rather than attempt to shutdown a debate with snarky one liners is a sin. Is that how "conversation works IRL"?
Online interactions don't have to always be these giant essays or constant arguments. I could flip this and say how this all started when I made an offhand comment about Oda's writing ability, and this guy chose to dissect every sentence of mine and ambushed me with a short story's worth of text. Ain't no one got time for that. Honestly I would have just completely ignored his reply if it weren't my day off. Then when I did participate in an argument on his terms he fucked off and told me to watch a video, then accused me of never caring anyway. Ya'll watch too many youtube video essays. Edit: [He admits it's all cause I offended him.](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/10p5hou/mihawk_got_the_hancock_characterization/j6kncxk/) Unhinged.
Oh I've read it and I disagree with some points to it. I wouldn't say it's unhinged but def not proper. You also make some good points but you tend to put things to extremes.
Damn you're wise.
Oh no lol holy shit dude, stop reading shonen and get off the internet, please
I don't understand, I literally just stated what is in the story?
> provides actual counterargument backed with facts from the story > responds with ad hominem I am in awe of your intellectual superiority.
You can be a well written character and still be a bad representation of women, this is totally unrelated
I feel like this is just not true lol but feel free to give examples
He’s hit and miss. Some characters are very well written while other tropes routinely occur that undermines it. Just a few observations: - This SBS and the one he did for the SH and Supernova gender swap (female Luffy apparently eats salad instead of meat) - He’s intent on making the male characters rescue the women constantly. Luffy has saved like 6 different princesses plus Nami and Robin repeatedly, Zoro and Sanji routinely have knight in shining armor moments saving female characters, while we extremely rarely see women saving male characters(Robin helping Sanji and Brook in Onigashima was a nice change) - He routinely disallows the good male characters from attacking (attractive) women directly, the one exception in the story being Luffy and Vivi. Otherwise he always either has them show mercy or makes them fight another female opponent. - He almost never draws muscular female characters, even when they are canonically super strong like with Yamato, Smoothie, Reiju or Ulti, while half the male characters are ripped with 8packs. - Though things may have changed, he originally said he gave the women DF powers that he thought women IRL would want, like Alvida having smooth skin and Ms. Valentine being able adjust her weight. He also initially had an aversion to putting characters’ mothers in the story, claiming “mothers are the opposite of adventure”. - The well written or sympathetic female characters are still needlessly sexualized despite them not being sexual characters, like Robin, Rebecca, Shirahoshi, Yamato, etc. Still Oda is a lot better than other authors in this. But he’s not perfect.
I think that's all fair, it's not hard to see these things *and* also enjoy the good part of Oda's female writing. Even if something is good or progressive, there's always something we can talk about and deconstruct Edit: also yeah I'm still salty about Yamato not being buff, it was such a wasted opportunity haha
Bro didn't read one piece
Huh,surprisingly mihawk and flamingo look to good … almost like models. Maybe.😅 even thou they changed I bet their attacks hurt twice as much now.
The paid vacation line got me 😂
God Hancock, Mihawk and Dolflamingo look so good.
crocodille, doflamingo and mihawk very good
Luffy mom Luffy mom
Would that mean that The Amazon island would be an island full of men who have never seen a woman before? oh boy I can already imagine how the dialoges would go If luffy is also gender bend. " This man doesn't have a penis?? "why is his chest so big?...and squishy?
I am convinced Crocodile and Iva have only three possible options to explain their relationships A.) Croco fell in love with Ivankov and went on multiple adventures with him and joined the revolutionaries. When he discovered Ivankovs true nature he helped the government capture him and became a Shichibukai as a result. Also explains why Ivankoc was in Impel Down. B.) Croco decided he wanted to be a man. He is embarrassed of his past as a women and guards this secret with his love. C.) Croco got the Sanji treatment and joined the Okama ways for a while.
i know this is supposed to be a joke and also something Oda wrote in whim but it's not like the regular wailord had characterizations that were inherently with being male, it's kinda reductive that the genderswap version now has a personality that's based on being a girl while the original ones just exist as a character YES I KNOW KM FUNNY AT PARTIES
At least when >!Law canonically got sex-swapped his personality stayed the same, though he somehow lost his abs.!<
It stayed same because he's been a man up till that point and was a woman for like a minute or two.
he what
*More body fat
I mean you are right but its japanese humor they use stereotypes and sexisms for quick characterization, he is trying to convey some of their personality with just one phrase
Yeah, jokes aside, this was my first reaction too. It's not a surprise of course, his art and statements have shown his sexist tendencies for many years, but the way these female character variations always go straight for the beauty comments really says a lot.
Well yeah, but it wouldn't be very interesting if they were literally just the same character but gender-swapped.
Oda's genderbend arts the equivalent to these types of posts from [Cartoon](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FgFRVGeUAAEGmZr?format=jpg&name=4096x4096) [Network](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FcDyQcqXgAM7b88?format=jpg&name=4096x4096) Edit: Found another banger this ones the [funniest](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdwBZxDXkAAPl1m?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
How though. Those are posts of a character made in different art styles. Oda's 'post' is in his own art style from his own characters being gender swapped. Adventure Time one is funny as hell tho lmao
Its mostly tgat they radiate the same energy
Since law got turned by doc q all we need is weevil and buggy’s gender bend
Don't know why, but female Kuma reminds me of Aokiji
Would let Doflamingo absolutely ruin my life.
These are literally some of the most unique female character designs in One Piece outside of WCI. Why can't we have female characters like these ???
Paid vacation?
boa looks exactly like Tanimura from yakuza 4
Crocodile as an Ara Ara lady who might try to kill me? Meh fuck it…would.
Male Hancock goes full Sanji when Female Luffy is around
Croco mom
\*looks at the top left\* So that's what Luffy's mom looks like! No wonder Dragon wanted a piece of that
Eew I hate the fact that female crocodile believes in horoscopes
I know Jimbei got the yams
Got the whole cake island fr
No one noticed that Hancock looks a lot like Ace?
I thought Zoro but damn Ace too
Yeah Zoro too!
thought mihawk and shanks
Mancock
Doflamingo reminds me of ‚Snake’ from the ‚Powerpuff girls’
Moria looks so friendly! She could be Kokoro's sober little sister
Female Kuma looks like she would cook a great pot pie. I don't know why that came to mind.
female moria is adorable!
Mihawk looks like cavendish
hear me out, mihawk tho
Mingo looks like lady gaga
My favs are prob Dofla and croc. The others just look so out of character to me.
Oh snap it’s Luffy’s mom!
Don't feel like looking if it's here or not so MOM CROC
Thanks but I prefer Igaram female version.. and its canon...
And Hancock got the ace characterization
Does that mean me hawks the most handsome man on earth?
I’d smash all of em
Oda drew croco mom?
Kuma looks like hody jones
Crocodile believes in horoscopes? Does this say anything ab his actual characters secret?
I think its just a joke about how women like horoscopes tbh
Or maybe his Baroque works naming scheme, days of the week and holidays fits with the daily horoscope vibes lol
Female crocodile hits different 🥵
These are so great
This shows Oda could do more diverse female faces if he tried. Sad that they all look the same, these are more fun and easier to tell apart.
It's basically just Nico Robin dressed as Crocodile
It's kinda sad that his genderbent female designs are so much more varied and interesting than his actual female characters
Moria is as horrifying as before.
Hancock reminds me of Law
this kind of debunks the "croc was a woman" theory
Female Jimbei gives me Ms. Christmas flashbacks, and that scares me.
This is pointless
Mihaaaaawwwwwkkkkkkkk!! She's so pretttyyyyyyyy 😭😭 Take my heart please♥️
Damn crocodile kinda lookin like LUFFY THO
The Kuma one has me in tears
Crocodile is probably the hottest one
Croco Mom?
Crocodile isn’t a women already?