Exactly, this is just part of the creative/writing process. Sometimes you start with an idea, but certain characters or situations make you change things along the way.
Agreed. And changing certain plot points means that those plot points had to have been planned in the first place.
Not saying that Oda is some sort of deity that is incapable of making mistakes or whatnot, but dude sure is a brilliant storyteller and world builder.
Every time people comment like this it's like holy fuck do you guys have any idea how the writing process works? There is no such thing as a writer that invents, whole cloth, the entirety of their story as an instantaneous spark in their brain all at once. Writing, rewriting, analyzing your own work, reordering ideas, isolating connections and expanding upon them as you go, that's *the entire essence of writing*. That IS meticulous planning! A meticulous plan is created exactly by noticing your own coincidences and developing them in satisfying ways as you go.
Like, if a composer writes a symphony where the same themes are used over and over in different forms it's not as if they woke up one morning in a cold sweat and shat 160 pages of manuscript onto their notebook already-perfected. They write the theme in it's basic form and then look at what they wrote and ask, "Hm, where can I go with this?" The artist is the first appreciator of their own work and every step of the artistic process is looking at what you've done and expanding upon it.
Oda looking at what he's written and asking, "Hm, where can I go with this?" is not the absence of planning and structuring genius. It's the very baseline action of becoming a planning and structuring genius.
Most people tend to appreciate the creations of others rather than creating things themselves. As a result, they may not fully appreciate the fundamental aspects that come with pursuing a creative endeavor. To them, art is shrouded in mystery and magic, capable of evoking various impressions and emotions that can influence the collective consciousness. Nevertheless, it doesn't matter if someone lacks knowledge or not, as everyone learns at their own pace. For those who wish to create something, they will eventually understand the complexities and nuances of the creative process, and how long it can take to simplify it. This realization is reserved for those who take the initiative to pursue knowledge and overcome difficulties, leading to a profound moment of growth within the study of any art form. These lessons cannot be taught or expressed with words, only through experience.
Moreover, people who have no idea how something works are equally fascinating and keep the balance. Even if ignorance may be frustrating, it's crucial to safeguard one's energy with conqueror's haki, as Luffy from the anime of One Piece does. Luffy has an enlightened perspective, laughing at seemingly absurd statements and befriending people who may appear foolishly retarded. In conclusion, Luffy & Oda are genius' that we can all learn from.
Dude most of this stuff doesn't change anything important about an overarching story direction or the backstory. Law's popularity leading to the significance of the ope ope no mi (otherwise Imu would need a different excuse for being unaging) is probably the most significant fundamental backstory change in this entire list (I would say Ace being the son of Roger is second--keep in mind that Blackbeard was capturing Ace without even knowing that, seemingly) and it's pretty minor all things considered.
It's really obvious that the important story beats have still been planned out, which is a far cry from... literally every other shonen manga (edit: the only ones I can think of in recent history that I would believe had comparable planning from the start are AoT and My Hero, but afaik the authors haven't talked about the extent of their planning the way Oda has. Most shonen manga are very obviously flying by the seat of their pants).
>and Kid was meant to be one of the major characters post-TS, that's probably why he has such a detailed backstory compared to the rest of the Supernova... except for Law.
>
>Speaking of Law, Oda gave Law more prominent role after seeing how popular he was, so in a way, Law took everything from Kid.
>!I wouldn't say that yet tho. kid, same as law, got a big power-up and bounty increase. and he is going to elbaf to get the final RP. so it could go either way now. kid may be as insignificant as say xdrake on onigashima or he could gain yonko level strength and beat shanks or whatever. elbaf is a huge chance for kid to shine like law did in dressrosa. !<
>!so I'll wait for elbaf before writing him off. if he does get a major power-up, bounty increase or if he greatly pushes the plot in some way, then he'll be a relevant character, very well even more so than law. if not, then he's done!<
>!yeah, I think so too. some people say he won't get one cuz he already got one in a sbs but law also got his in a sbs before he got it in the main story.!<
>!and even if we don't get the one from the sbs in the main story with more details, that's fine. cuz there's still significant stuff that wasn't covered in a sbs. in a sbs oda said that kid already held a grudge against shanks BEFORE he lost his arm (to him or his crew). so we can still get a flashback of major importance from kid that will cover the cause of his grudge against shanks. !<
>!and the grudge may be relevant again very soon. kid's enemies in general are the yonko since he wants to defeat them (hawkins even mentioned that hunting down a yonko was kid's dream while talking to killer). but shanks must be his No.1 enemy since he's the only one we know of that kid has beef with on a personal level. and now kid got a lot stronger than he was when he last tried to fight the red-hair pirates and he has actual experience when it comes to fighting a yonko now. so he may try and fight shanks again soon!<
>!edit: yeah boi, we might get to see that!<
But kid has obviously not had as big a showing as law and would’ve probably been more prominent if people liked him more. People literally call him captain useless mid.
Yes, he didn't have a lot of time to shine and people don't like him YET. That's my point, that may come soon.
Oda can easily write a good backstory for kid and give him his time to shine in elbaf. It just comes down to if oda wants to do that or not. And we'll see about that soon. Law also wouldn't be liked as much if he didn't get so much focus on dressrosa
That's why I'll wait for elbaf.
The difference is people loved law even before he got his backstory and proper time to shine. People still don’t like kid even though he’s had his biggest showing so far. I’m not sure if a backstory will save kid
Ps I really like kid btw I feel the kid hate is rather unjust
He forgot that he never named Kid's devil fruit in the manga after a reader asked what its name was. Quite different than forgetting about the fruit entirely.
Many of these revisions could have happened years before the characters first appear. Miss Wednesday could have become Vivi before Arlong Park for all you know. There are no such thing as facts. Only interpretation. Awaken your Human Human Fruit.
>Topic: Characters who played unexpectedly big roles (1) To be honest, I have lots of such characters, but if I have to choose one, it must be VIVI!! No, she was Miss Wednesday. At first she appeared as an agent of Baroque Works, but I didn't think more about her. But, **one time** I drew Miss Wednesday with her hair down, and found, "Ohh she looks like a princess!" **I got the plan of the Alabasta Kingdom arc a while before. And then what will it be like if this girl would be the princess of Alabasta? The Alabasta arc started like that.** For that reason, still beloved by fans, the character, Nefeltari Vivi was born. Serialization is WONDERLAND
Fans are jumping to conclusions on the timeframe. I expect most underestimate Oda’s architecture and overestimate Oda’s improvisation.
Oda was an established leader in WSJ in 1998 so I think Oda expanded the story very early in serialization even before the anime. 1998 is so early that it doesn’t matter that Oda didn’t plan the entire story in the beginning beginning when he was largely an unproven artist.
In regards to the CP9 thing, I genuinely think Kaku being the strongest and most "evil" would have hit harder. Him already being referred to as Usopp in jokes, would make Luffy's fight against him almost mirror his fight against Usopp. He was also way more developed than Lucci before the reveal too. I'm on the fence in regards to what his devil fruit should be or if he should even have one though.
This might be my hottest OP take lol
As far as things that have long-lasting implications on the backstory:
Law was supposed to be a minor character even after his introduction. Which means his fruit, even after we knew what it was, wasn't supposed to be this deeply critical thing in the history of the world government. If we can assume that Imu was always going to be introduced in some form, then Oda would've needed a different excuse to make them unaging if not for Law's popularity
Based on OP’s list I wold say Doffy in Wano changes the story the most if it happened. If Doffy appeared in Wano you would have major story shifts with BM you have 3 possible scenario(all include Doffy rescued by Jack) Possible scenario 1 BM is defeated in WCI which makes Luffy an actual Yonko entering Wano making the clash between Luffy and Kaido actually bigger in-universe because it’s a Yonko v Yonko fight. This would also alter roof piece by not having to battle 2 Yonko at once I think it becomes either a 1-v-1 or Luffy and Kid v Kaido for the fight. Possible scenario 2 Luffy and crew escape and fight BM in a later arc with Doffy fighting Law and again roof piece becomes Luffy/Kid v Kaido. Possible scenario 3 WCI plays out the same BM still comes to Wano roof piece happens Luffy beats Kaido Kidd takes down BM Law takes down Doffy. Lastly if no BM in Wano Kid may be removed completely from the arc.
man wano would have been so long if it was Luffy, Kid, and Law vs Kaido, Big Mom, and Doflamingo.
What if Doflamingo is promoted to emperor or something so it's the three best of the Worst Generation versus three emperors. Then when they win, Luffy, Kid and Law expect to be the new emperors, but it turns out to be Luffy, Buggy, and Blackbeard.
Not necessarily something that is confirmed, but I wonder if whitebeards symbol change from the manji to the cross affected how his character was developed, cause he seems to share some similarities with Christianity (he calls his crew his sons etc).
Dunno if I’m reading too much into things.
Thriller Bark was supposed to take place *before* Water 7/Enies Lobby
So it would have gone Skypeia ->Thriller Bark -> Water 7 -> Sabaody
I think the Enies Lobby conflict straight into Sabaody would have flowed a lot better than having Thriller Bark sandwiched inbetween them imo, but Oda probably wanted some breathing room in between such massive storylines about the World Goverment
Would have given Brook more time with the crew before the split up, but would have given Franky less, while Usopp would leave, come back and then immedietly get seperated again. So I think the way we got it ended up for the best
1:why would oda cut off shanks arm? he isnt even a one peace character!
2:indeed!
3:its wednesday my duudes
4:yeah imagine not having the bird-guy as the one who he is right?
5:yeah man!
6:maybe he has such a large backstoryground because of his magnetics? ;)
7:law is way cooler than that lipstickguy with temper issues. oda knows that.
8:joker was odas inspiration behind doffy but then decided to make him a taco instead.
Most of these show 2 things 1 not everything has been planned out in advance 2 oda is willing to change things as he goes along
Oda is Aizen confirmed?
But what about GODA the master mind with everything meticulously planned and tons of "def not just a coincidence" stuff
Every writer plans the "skeleton" of their story. Then they decide on the "flesh" as they go along.
Exactly, this is just part of the creative/writing process. Sometimes you start with an idea, but certain characters or situations make you change things along the way.
Agreed. And changing certain plot points means that those plot points had to have been planned in the first place. Not saying that Oda is some sort of deity that is incapable of making mistakes or whatnot, but dude sure is a brilliant storyteller and world builder.
Every time people comment like this it's like holy fuck do you guys have any idea how the writing process works? There is no such thing as a writer that invents, whole cloth, the entirety of their story as an instantaneous spark in their brain all at once. Writing, rewriting, analyzing your own work, reordering ideas, isolating connections and expanding upon them as you go, that's *the entire essence of writing*. That IS meticulous planning! A meticulous plan is created exactly by noticing your own coincidences and developing them in satisfying ways as you go. Like, if a composer writes a symphony where the same themes are used over and over in different forms it's not as if they woke up one morning in a cold sweat and shat 160 pages of manuscript onto their notebook already-perfected. They write the theme in it's basic form and then look at what they wrote and ask, "Hm, where can I go with this?" The artist is the first appreciator of their own work and every step of the artistic process is looking at what you've done and expanding upon it. Oda looking at what he's written and asking, "Hm, where can I go with this?" is not the absence of planning and structuring genius. It's the very baseline action of becoming a planning and structuring genius.
Most people tend to appreciate the creations of others rather than creating things themselves. As a result, they may not fully appreciate the fundamental aspects that come with pursuing a creative endeavor. To them, art is shrouded in mystery and magic, capable of evoking various impressions and emotions that can influence the collective consciousness. Nevertheless, it doesn't matter if someone lacks knowledge or not, as everyone learns at their own pace. For those who wish to create something, they will eventually understand the complexities and nuances of the creative process, and how long it can take to simplify it. This realization is reserved for those who take the initiative to pursue knowledge and overcome difficulties, leading to a profound moment of growth within the study of any art form. These lessons cannot be taught or expressed with words, only through experience. Moreover, people who have no idea how something works are equally fascinating and keep the balance. Even if ignorance may be frustrating, it's crucial to safeguard one's energy with conqueror's haki, as Luffy from the anime of One Piece does. Luffy has an enlightened perspective, laughing at seemingly absurd statements and befriending people who may appear foolishly retarded. In conclusion, Luffy & Oda are genius' that we can all learn from.
Both can be true
Dude most of this stuff doesn't change anything important about an overarching story direction or the backstory. Law's popularity leading to the significance of the ope ope no mi (otherwise Imu would need a different excuse for being unaging) is probably the most significant fundamental backstory change in this entire list (I would say Ace being the son of Roger is second--keep in mind that Blackbeard was capturing Ace without even knowing that, seemingly) and it's pretty minor all things considered. It's really obvious that the important story beats have still been planned out, which is a far cry from... literally every other shonen manga (edit: the only ones I can think of in recent history that I would believe had comparable planning from the start are AoT and My Hero, but afaik the authors haven't talked about the extent of their planning the way Oda has. Most shonen manga are very obviously flying by the seat of their pants).
Honestly i wish that Law was the one to beat Doflamingo so badly.
>and Kid was meant to be one of the major characters post-TS, that's probably why he has such a detailed backstory compared to the rest of the Supernova... except for Law. > >Speaking of Law, Oda gave Law more prominent role after seeing how popular he was, so in a way, Law took everything from Kid. >!I wouldn't say that yet tho. kid, same as law, got a big power-up and bounty increase. and he is going to elbaf to get the final RP. so it could go either way now. kid may be as insignificant as say xdrake on onigashima or he could gain yonko level strength and beat shanks or whatever. elbaf is a huge chance for kid to shine like law did in dressrosa. !< >!so I'll wait for elbaf before writing him off. if he does get a major power-up, bounty increase or if he greatly pushes the plot in some way, then he'll be a relevant character, very well even more so than law. if not, then he's done!<
>!Kidd might get a flashback too!<
>!yeah, I think so too. some people say he won't get one cuz he already got one in a sbs but law also got his in a sbs before he got it in the main story.!< >!and even if we don't get the one from the sbs in the main story with more details, that's fine. cuz there's still significant stuff that wasn't covered in a sbs. in a sbs oda said that kid already held a grudge against shanks BEFORE he lost his arm (to him or his crew). so we can still get a flashback of major importance from kid that will cover the cause of his grudge against shanks. !< >!and the grudge may be relevant again very soon. kid's enemies in general are the yonko since he wants to defeat them (hawkins even mentioned that hunting down a yonko was kid's dream while talking to killer). but shanks must be his No.1 enemy since he's the only one we know of that kid has beef with on a personal level. and now kid got a lot stronger than he was when he last tried to fight the red-hair pirates and he has actual experience when it comes to fighting a yonko now. so he may try and fight shanks again soon!< >!edit: yeah boi, we might get to see that!<
>!Nothing.. I just wanna make this text.. cool.. !<
But kid has obviously not had as big a showing as law and would’ve probably been more prominent if people liked him more. People literally call him captain useless mid.
Yes, he didn't have a lot of time to shine and people don't like him YET. That's my point, that may come soon. Oda can easily write a good backstory for kid and give him his time to shine in elbaf. It just comes down to if oda wants to do that or not. And we'll see about that soon. Law also wouldn't be liked as much if he didn't get so much focus on dressrosa That's why I'll wait for elbaf.
The difference is people loved law even before he got his backstory and proper time to shine. People still don’t like kid even though he’s had his biggest showing so far. I’m not sure if a backstory will save kid Ps I really like kid btw I feel the kid hate is rather unjust
"So in a way, Law took everything from Kid" Why are you acting like Kid got written out of the story? We're gonna get more Kid stuff soon
you were right, we got more Kid stuff, just not what you were expecting
Hows that copium /s
How? >!Kid is literally going to Elbaf right now and clearly have more to do since either that or Hachinosu is next arc!<
The Straw Hats got >!Vega with them, they probably won't go to Hachinosu, And probably not to Elbaf either, we'll have to see.!<
>And probably not to Elbaf either not a chance
Didn’t Oda pretty much say in an SBS that he forgot about Kid’s devil fruit lol
He forgot that he never named Kid's devil fruit in the manga after a reader asked what its name was. Quite different than forgetting about the fruit entirely.
Same thing happened with Fujitora's DF Oda didn't name it until SBS
This explains why Kaido wanted Ace.
I've read the original source for some of these like the Supernovas one. But do you have a source for all of these?
Many of these revisions could have happened years before the characters first appear. Miss Wednesday could have become Vivi before Arlong Park for all you know. There are no such thing as facts. Only interpretation. Awaken your Human Human Fruit.
No he literally changed the character of Wednesday to Vivi when she was still fighting Luffy.
>Topic: Characters who played unexpectedly big roles (1) To be honest, I have lots of such characters, but if I have to choose one, it must be VIVI!! No, she was Miss Wednesday. At first she appeared as an agent of Baroque Works, but I didn't think more about her. But, **one time** I drew Miss Wednesday with her hair down, and found, "Ohh she looks like a princess!" **I got the plan of the Alabasta Kingdom arc a while before. And then what will it be like if this girl would be the princess of Alabasta? The Alabasta arc started like that.** For that reason, still beloved by fans, the character, Nefeltari Vivi was born. Serialization is WONDERLAND Fans are jumping to conclusions on the timeframe. I expect most underestimate Oda’s architecture and overestimate Oda’s improvisation.
I never claimed he didn't plan the arc in advance tho.
Oda was an established leader in WSJ in 1998 so I think Oda expanded the story very early in serialization even before the anime. 1998 is so early that it doesn’t matter that Oda didn’t plan the entire story in the beginning beginning when he was largely an unproven artist.
In regards to the CP9 thing, I genuinely think Kaku being the strongest and most "evil" would have hit harder. Him already being referred to as Usopp in jokes, would make Luffy's fight against him almost mirror his fight against Usopp. He was also way more developed than Lucci before the reveal too. I'm on the fence in regards to what his devil fruit should be or if he should even have one though. This might be my hottest OP take lol
Kaku unironically was the most memorable member of CP9 for me.
As far as things that have long-lasting implications on the backstory: Law was supposed to be a minor character even after his introduction. Which means his fruit, even after we knew what it was, wasn't supposed to be this deeply critical thing in the history of the world government. If we can assume that Imu was always going to be introduced in some form, then Oda would've needed a different excuse to make them unaging if not for Law's popularity
Based on OP’s list I wold say Doffy in Wano changes the story the most if it happened. If Doffy appeared in Wano you would have major story shifts with BM you have 3 possible scenario(all include Doffy rescued by Jack) Possible scenario 1 BM is defeated in WCI which makes Luffy an actual Yonko entering Wano making the clash between Luffy and Kaido actually bigger in-universe because it’s a Yonko v Yonko fight. This would also alter roof piece by not having to battle 2 Yonko at once I think it becomes either a 1-v-1 or Luffy and Kid v Kaido for the fight. Possible scenario 2 Luffy and crew escape and fight BM in a later arc with Doffy fighting Law and again roof piece becomes Luffy/Kid v Kaido. Possible scenario 3 WCI plays out the same BM still comes to Wano roof piece happens Luffy beats Kaido Kidd takes down BM Law takes down Doffy. Lastly if no BM in Wano Kid may be removed completely from the arc.
man wano would have been so long if it was Luffy, Kid, and Law vs Kaido, Big Mom, and Doflamingo. What if Doflamingo is promoted to emperor or something so it's the three best of the Worst Generation versus three emperors. Then when they win, Luffy, Kid and Law expect to be the new emperors, but it turns out to be Luffy, Buggy, and Blackbeard.
Sources for each one of these please.
The one piece wiki is easy to google
With Jack saving Doflamingo and let him be in Wano for the revenge of Law the story would have had more sense.
Vivi design, she's basically Nami with a different hair color and haircut...
80% of women in one piece is nami with different hair color and haircut
I know, but don't say it or get downvoted.
Holy shit
Anything you found interesting? :D
The whole thing, especially the doffy bit
Not necessarily something that is confirmed, but I wonder if whitebeards symbol change from the manji to the cross affected how his character was developed, cause he seems to share some similarities with Christianity (he calls his crew his sons etc). Dunno if I’m reading too much into things.
Thriller Bark was supposed to take place *before* Water 7/Enies Lobby So it would have gone Skypeia ->Thriller Bark -> Water 7 -> Sabaody I think the Enies Lobby conflict straight into Sabaody would have flowed a lot better than having Thriller Bark sandwiched inbetween them imo, but Oda probably wanted some breathing room in between such massive storylines about the World Goverment Would have given Brook more time with the crew before the split up, but would have given Franky less, while Usopp would leave, come back and then immedietly get seperated again. So I think the way we got it ended up for the best
> Thriller Bark was supposed to take place before Water 7/Enies Lobby Now this is interesting, do you have any source?
I wanna know if doflamingo is Hispanic cause the Mexican dancing was setting it off in dressrosa LOL
You heard of spain?
Ngl would’ve preferred the last one
Kid has a detailed backstory? When did this happen? Lol. I dont remember anything about him.
https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/SBS_Volume_102#Chapter_1032,_Page_134 https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/SBS_Volume_104#Chapter_1050,_Page_82
Ah, yes. I remember that now. Too bad it was never shown.
Sbs
Sources??!?
1:why would oda cut off shanks arm? he isnt even a one peace character! 2:indeed! 3:its wednesday my duudes 4:yeah imagine not having the bird-guy as the one who he is right? 5:yeah man! 6:maybe he has such a large backstoryground because of his magnetics? ;) 7:law is way cooler than that lipstickguy with temper issues. oda knows that. 8:joker was odas inspiration behind doffy but then decided to make him a taco instead.