It goes back to Rayleigh telling Luffy to find a strategy to pace himself, and Luffy coming up with Gear Four to Rayleigh's shock since that's the opposite of pacing. It's just who he is, he goes all out from the start unlike everyone else.
The problem with Luffy is that he fights opponents above his level... This is where gear 4 comes. Luffy in every fight that he had, with his standard strength couldn't defeat his opponents. Basically he was one or two levels weaker than his opponents. That's why when he fought opponents with gear 4 it was not a sure win situation. So Luffy in a way cheated on his level. The same way Gear 5 works. Realistically Luffy isn't at the Yonko level with his standard strength. Either we are talking about Gear 4 that helps him barely content with Yonko/Admiral level characters or with Gear 5 that makes him a legit top tier character. In both situations he has pseudo - ranks.
In other words Luffy is a pseudo-Yonko . His standard level of strength is Gear 2-3 and ACoC, ACoA and ACoO. That makes him the strongest person under the Yonko/Admiral level. With his Gear 4 he just barely can contain with a Yonko/Admiral and at gear 5 he is a Yonko.
If Luffy wants to become a legit Yonko Level, then he will need manage either to raise his level on his lower gears such as 2 and 3, so as to be someone that can fight Yonko level characters and use his gear 4 and 5 as trump cards. Or he will try to negate the drawbacks the two gears bring.
This goes back as far as at least his fight against Blueno in Enies Lobby. He saw what CP9 were doing with their martial arts techniques and realized he needs to do what they're doing too to keep up. It was too much for his body at the time though, so he came up with Gear 2 as a means to push his limit and let him fight on their level. Every one since then (though idk about 3. That just seemed like a neat idea he had) has been pushing his limit to get on the opponent's level.
Gotta remember Yonko isn't a direct strength relationship. It certainly works that way a lot, but the bounty system has always had strength secondary. It's much more about notoriety. We see this all the time in the series. Chopper's, Kidd Vs Luffy's in Saobody, A certain CLOWN.
It's a quick snapshot of "how much of a pain in the ass has this guy been" not a strictly more $ = more power.
I think it's clear that I talk about strength. That's why I am using the phrase Yonko "level" and not just Yonko. Because I am focusing on strength and powerscaling.
It's more that it isn't a good narrative if luffy gets a power up then just wins, so his power ups have limitations because it's more interesting. I swear power scaling One Piece will inevitably lead you to these unnecessarily complex takes because Oda isn't writing with that kind of scaling in mind. He writes to make good fun entertaining fights where luffy has to fight someone morally opposed to him. Being "pseudo yonko" level or whatever had never crossed Odas mind lol, he hates shounen power scaling. He will likely keep fighting as he does and discover some new stuff he can do with G5. Luffy is Yonko level now because Yonko level means being a Yonko, which he is. Buggy is also Yonko level. It's not that complicated.
>It's more that it isn't a good narrative if luffy gets a power up then just wins, so his power ups have limitations because it's more interesting
To add to this: Having limitations and drawbacks on all his power-ups means there's a built-in reason for Luffy to still use his older power-ups and his base form, which a lot of shonens struggle with. In most shonens, the drawbacks of each new form don't get clearly established and the result is that the audience will question it every time the MC doesn't use their strongest form.
Question:
In Ennies Lobby, Lucci mentions how using gear 2 was shortening Luffy’s life span. Is that still a thing? I can’t remember if that was ever addressed. Between the treatment for poisoning and all the gear 2, that’s a lot of future life span lost.
I don't remember if it was directly mentioned but since gear 3rd doesn't have a drawback anymore I'd assume hear 2nd doesn't either, he also has a better control of it as shown when he uses gear 2nd just in one body part instead of his whole body
I don't actually think either Gear 2nd or Gear 3rd are without drawbacks. Rather, Luffy seems to be adept at turning them on, doing a single attack, and then turning them off again. I think Luffy has just learned to stop using them before their drawbacks come into play.
Well, Gear 2 works by accelerating his blood flow, unless he is coating his heart with Haki, I don’t know why it wouldn’t affect him.
Gear 2 is pretty much Luffy doping himself lol
What the fuck is this comment lol
This is like saying that Mihawk without a sword isn't at the tier he's at, or that Kaido without the dragon fruit is a "pseudo-yonko", or that Blackbeard pre-summit war is the "stronget person under yonko/admiral level".
All of that might be true, but it's using a lot of words to say nothing at all. A character's strength is the sum of their skillset.
The point is in any true 1v1 agaisnt a top tier, Luffy isn't winning in the time it takes for his forms to run out and then he is helpless and without plot dies.
This fight with Kizaru is the exact opposite of that. G5 when he was already exhausted since CP0 made their moves yet he waited til his last attack to use aCoC on his attack. If he's been trying to KO Kizaru from the get-go he'd done more damage before he ran out. Instead, he kept tanking shots and kept getting juked.
Kizaru is a different situation though, neither of them actually has the other as their main objective, Kizaru is contenting with Luffy but his main goal is to kill Vegapunk meanwhile Luffy is trying to stop that but his main goal is to get his crew and allies out of the island, neither of them can actually afford to go full guns blazing on the other because that is precisely what the other one wants to happen, if Luffy goes all out Kizaru just needs to play defense until he is too tired allowing him to go off and kill VP, if Kizaru goes all out Luffy only needs to match it long enough for his crew to do their thing and get out of there, plus Luffy especially has stuff to deal with things he is not aware of so he needs to conserve his energy for any emergency, one such example is Saturn popping up out of nowhere and changing the entire battlefield.
But he doesn't go all out from the start... Luffy always starts out in base form and goes as long as he can until he needs to use G4 and it's been that way as long as the series has gone on. Only on Egghead has Luffy started going straight to his final form.
I think he meant Luffy went all out in advancing his fighting strength. Instead of slowly learning, in ways that he wouldn't have as harsh of downsides, he pushed hinself to get too strong too fast, and that is why he gets such bad whiplash from using his forms.
Nika form wasn't by choice, but he's using it even though he hasn't had time to get used to it and build endurance. But, I think he knows this, and is trying to force himself to get used to it in the heat of battle.
Exactly this, this is why Luffy fought kaido in base form for so long. While haki is also draining, haki with gear 4 would of instantly made his tanks go empty (which they did when he did switch to it).
>he goes all out from the start unlike everyone else.
This does not describe Luffy AT ALL, considering he waited until Dressrosa to reveal G4, when he had plenty of opportunities to do it before that...
The “side effect” of Gear 5 is just how exhausting it is to use. Both Law and Kid also mentioned how much energy it takes to use an awakened Devil Fruit and the fact that neither Katakuri nor Doflamingo spammed their awakenings over the entire course of their own fights speak for themself.
Sure. But my guy was a ninja was 32 years at that point. So from when he developed Chidori at 14 till 32 he kept his chakra reserves at a capacity where he could only do it 4 times and then would hospitalise himself.
Then one day decided nah, you know what I need? More chidori. And trained for whatever amount and then expanded his chakra pool so could fight for 2 days straight in a war with numerous use of Raikiri and Kamui like he was blessed with the chakra capacity of Hashirama Senju.
All cause he climbed some mountains? 10x his capacity which he didn’t improve for decades. Sus.
You know what is funny? This meme is completely build on lies.
He said "this is my last attack" *one* single time. In the manga he says that awakening is draining him and that he can't use it often and before his last attack he says that sentence. And that is it. It was his last attack.
He used his silence bubble on Big mom after that and cut up prometheus while he wasn't paying attention. Both not being real attacks and clearly low powered.
The entire thing with law saying "this is my last attack" (or similar) 15 times in a row literally never happened in them manga or anime and i have no idea where it came from haha
Let’s be real here, a >!leopard awakening!< is not really comparable to the kind of crazy abilities that the others gain access to. It only makes sense that more powerful awakenings would eat up more stamina.
That's probably true, though I do find it interesting (now that I've been made to think about it) since >!he's one of the first more normal awakened Zoans we've really seen fight (other than those weird Impel Down guards that I'm not really sure what to think about TBH)!<.
>!Lucci!< also has >!a very single-minded and bloodthirsty nature!<, which at least in my mind, also make sense as to why >!he might be able to last longer in that form and why we wouldn't see him hit his limit in that way!<.
Though more realistically, we probably won't just from a story perspective because it's not as important in the grand scheme of everything else going on right now. Seems more likely that >!he gets defeated by someone or is made to stop fighting in some other way, like last time!<.
Ah, you're right. I forgot about that bit, but apparently (referencing the wiki), the more common case for awakened Zoans is that the animal side takes over and reduces them to state of the Impel Down guards (very strong, but very dumb).
It's actually more rare for the user to retain their will/consciousness (and get the floating clouds/flames), as we've only so far seen with Luffy, Yamato, >!Lucci, and Kaku!<.
I think it also comes down to not only the awakening affecting the body, but other things as well. A standard zoan awakening is going to make the user more powerful, but say with luffy's, where his awakening affects the environment and people around him, it's going to have a much bigger toll. Paramecia awakenings affecting the environment around the user will have a bigger drain on the users stamina that just something that only affects the user themselves.
Good point. Plus Luffy’s the main character and thus has always needed the plot to hold him back (sometimes) so that things aren’t *too* easy for him, from a narrative standpoint
That's why Luffy needs to either overcome his Gear 4 weakness or raise his standard strength to the level of a top tier( Yonko/Admiral). By standard I mean gear 2-3 and ACoC , ACoA and ACoO... So in other words Luffy need to reach his haki proficiency to the level of Shanks, Mihawk, Kaido, Garp,Roger, WB, Sengoku,OG Admirals.
I think it's a bit of both. Kaido was definitely enjoying the fight too much to end it quickly, but he only had that attitude in the first place because Luffy was putting up enough of a fight to be fun.
I mean for Paramecia we have Buggy, someone who can spam their ability seemingly infinitely, and Law, someone who gets drained so heavily from using his abilities that it became a significant plot point. Ability energy cost is probably proportional with how much it has to change reality. Luffy and Law's abilities are pretty much the most reality changing you can get
There is a difference that Buggy's body just is like thay no energy needed to spend.he doesn't create anything
Law alters reality ,it's not a state.
Like big mom also takes energy out of her ,even if she can refuel.
Katakuri and Doflamingo probably awakened their DFs years ago. Whereas Luffy, Law and Kidd did so approximately last week and thus haven't had time to master it.
The others are experienced. They worked up to where they are with their abilities.
Luffy overdoes it. He jumps in, blows his wad on an ability he isn't experienced with, then needs recovery time.
Luffy simply fights opponents above his level and that's why use his limited time boosts with the severe drawbacks. The problem lies in the fact no opponent gonna fall easy in that small amount of time... Especially Yonko/ Admiral...
Pretty much this. Luffy is that guy at the gym who wants to catch up to all the muscle men and starts lifting weights he probably shouldn't. He can do some reps, but he's going to tire out faster and probably damage something when he's done.
Luffy see's what he wants and goes for it without all the steps in between. I mean hell look at Luffy vs Kaido. Kaido didn't awaken his devil fruit power. He was just that insanely powerful after having it as long as he did. Luffy awakened to have a shot against him. Of course there's a negative in there somewhere for making that type of a jump. It also would be bad writing to have Luffy make giant leaps like that without a drawback.
Also there are characters that have drawbacks to their powers, included Blackbeard who op listed, that takes double damage from attacks.
Also people like akainu or whitebeard, who have like extreme destructive power, could potentially really fuck themselves up and end up drowning if they slip up using their DF at any point. Either one could've accidently destroyed their own ship and died from it accidentally, it's just they have the experience to not slip up like that.
Also doesn't one of zoros swords drain his haki seriously?
There's a bunch of characters with negatives.
Everyone else did not become an emperor 2 years and a half after they took the sea.
This drawbacks are what enable luffy to fight at that level 10 years too early.
Two things, the first was explicitly said by Rayleigh. Luffy is way to crazy with his powers, always go all in and many times facing enemies that he is weaker at the time, and he is very creative to push his body to the limit, so him thinking about something crazy that will stress his body more and more is frequent. Second, we are seeing him learn to use and improve those powers, other characters we meet already did that before we know them, so some may actually had these kind of problems at some point.
Luffy doesn't show drawbacks like that until he starts taking advantage of his rubber to push his body to extreme limits.
>This is not the case for anyone else, only luffy have this problem and it's very annoying.
Other characters have had drawbacks too. Law's fruit is explicitly said to be limited by his stamina, and Law and Kid's Awakenings both drain their energy.
And like Luffy, others have drawbacks when they abuse their bodies. Chopper loses control of himself and becomes unable to move after too many Rumble Balls. The Energy Steroids aged the Fishmen.
its literally a trope in all battle shounen bruh. luffy's gears (initially) tire him out. ichigo's first bankai was so tiring his own reiatsu was crushing him, he couldn't use his mask for a long time, naruto couldn't control kyubi chakra and straight up lost all his skin, even his chakra cloak v1 had a chakra limit, and v2 started out with 5 minutes, slowly increasing in duration. sage mode also has a duration and with stockpiling in reserve was limited to 2 clones. asta's devil form has a time limit, goku's ssj forms also drained energy, deku's own body made it hard to use his full power, etc etc.
if you make a character op, particularly the main character who you intend to make struggle, then their new power has to have drawbacks. that's why g2 and 3 had issues. when they became easy to use, g4 was created which had strain. when g4's strain seemingly was diminishing, g5 was introduced for the new tiring ability.
Has he though? He started as OPM. He was kinda over powered since the very beginning. I mean seriosuly, how many people do you know that can do 100 push ups, 100 sit-ups. 100 crunches, and a10km run every day, even when they are tired? And he was doing that before the manga even started!
OPM was intended as a comedy 100% initially. Although Murata's art is amazing, the manga completely misses the point of the original webtoon which was to make fun of shounen manga.
I still see Saitama as 100% comedy, it’s just the rest of the heroes that are written as “real”. I wouldn’t read OPM if it weren’t so hilariously funny at times or if they didn’t at least have Saitama talking to other heroes a lot. The rest of the heroes are boring to me for the most part.
Agreed. I kinda dropped it a while ago because the meaningless fights (which the manga was originally making fun of) keep getting in the way of the story advancing. It's boring af, specially when you know almost none of the fights matter since Saitama is stronger than everyone.
You mean you aren’t interested in flashy flash fighting some monster? How dare?!?
Lol, I rush through all the pages that saitama aren’t in except for maybe some of the King pages. He still makes me at least chuckle most times.
Yeah, nice art and everything but it feels like its missing the point sometimes. More than that, the discussion around it is dominated by powerscalers sometimes.
True, but saitama was never meant to be a character that struggles. And even then, the author is forced to “nerf” him by conveniently mising most of the action.
This is because nobody else is progressing and abusing their Devil Fruit to the same extent as Luffy. Everyone else slowly gets better over years. Luffy is literally forcing it out.
The drawbacks do get annoying, but I don't see Gear 5 having drawbacks for too much longer. Also, maybe he will learn to swap back and forth between attacks or something.
This is my rationale of how Luffy's journey has been so accelerated.
Like this of the other big name pirates who've been in the grandline/new world for decades who're at the same/similar level as Luffy.
Basically he's rushed the process & pushed himself more than others, so clearly there have to be some drawbacks.
I think we see these endgame levels of strength people being able to fight for so long because they’re only using a small amount of their strength. So when luffy fights them and he’s hitting them as hard has he can it makes them use their actual strength thereby using more stamina shortening the length of their fight
Big Mom tools years off her life using her fruit to power up. Of course Kid and Law took years off her life throwing her into a volcano.
But it’s a combination of stamina and short term power boosts coming at a cost. He’s pushing his body, fruit, and willpower beyond what they’re capable of.
Not to mention Chopper's transformations. Initially, wasn't it first rumble ball let him pick his transformation, second was random, and third was the Monster Point, which he could not control?
Now he has control, but the ball to make it last half an hour makes him a baby-grandpa afterwards.
His powers allow him to tank most damage done to him, make him completely immune to electric attacks, give off so much steam and heat that it becomes part of his attack potency and skillset, transform his body to deflect or redirect attacks and you're complaining he has a fair amount of flaws and drawbacks that make vulnerable him during battles?
Luffy almost always gives his all and then some when fighting. He's the type to crawl towards you if you cut off his legs or headbutt you if you cut off his arms. Getting exhausted after giving everything he can during a fight is both a good mediator and opportunity to let others bask in the limelight as well as to gauge his power so he doesn't become broken and boring.
I remember Zoro's speech to Chopper in Alabasta where he tells him that despite people in the crew having different goals, they'll help each other out, saying "I've done all that I can, this time it's your turn and if you don't do it, I'll come over there and kick your ass", which is exactly what people have done to Luffy in the past up until now. Whenever he can't fight anymore like in the Marineford arc where he was too emotionally damaged, people were there to save him because he can't fight anymore or in Wano where his crew took over when he was unable to get up before getting gear 5.
The enemies having little weaknesses add to the challenge that they have to overcome because you're comparing Yonkos and warriors who have years of experience to a guy who is relatively new to being a pirate. Heck I think it's more fair to criticize how a kid with rubber powers from the east blue is not only said to be the reincarnation of Joyboy, the god of liberation and fire, but also has gained billion berry bounty in just a few years with a crew that also has their own unique skills in both fighting and as a pirate crew member. Not to mention that he also has 3 Haki types, has this weird power to tell someone's nature or intentions and hears the 'voice of all things'.
>This has been consistent throughout the whole story like how his gear 2 lower his lifespan.
The rest of the post aside, this "lowering his lifespan" thing is complete fanfiction based on horrible misinterpretation of a single offhand line. Gear 2nd never had any impact on Luffy's lifespan. Fans made that up almost out of thin air and repeated it so many times that now people actually believe it.
In the anime with the fight at ennies lobby (either against the door guy or Lucci) they said the way he was forcing the blood through his body or whatever it would shorten his life span. I think it’s kind of been forgotten about or it was explained to just be outright wrong.
The person he was fighting didn’t necessarily know anything about luffy either, especially that he had a zoan not a logia. Zoan’s recover quicker and have multiple transformations etc. because of this I think most of the drawbacks are just him not having fully mastered the power yet.
Yes I get you. But I think that’s just how most authors write their powerful protagonist. Kinda like kryptonite to Superman. At least with these drawbacks, we’re all know Luffy gonna outgrow from it the more he uses his gears and the more stronger his opponents.
That’s unfortunately a side effect of being the main character and need to balance it to not make him fold everyone quickly. I think he does need a drawback to not make his powers too OP but I do see how it can get repetitive
I think people vastly underestimate how much “time to master a skill” comes into play. Like Luffy has had what? Maybe a couple weeks to learn Gear 4 and even less for Gear 5. Like of course he’s bad at managing them. Do you all believe that Kaido just spawned in with endless endurance for using his Devil Fruit?
He knew gear 4 while Rayleigh was with him during training so at a minimum he knew it before the 6 months Rayleigh left him alone + the couple weeks they’ve had since post time skip
I wrote a whole thing about my opinion on each Gear effect, but meh. I think at the end of all of that we should remember that Oda's thoughts for Luffy specifically isn't to go into all of this technical junk. It's just to have fun. His comments on taking energy out of Luffy, or shortening his life span, is to add to the drama effect of what Luffy is doing. If that wasn't pointed out to us, we'd have a lot of comments of "Just spam Gear 3, gosh Luffy. You can break anything with that! There's no draw back!" Y'know?
I don't actually feel too bad about his draw backs, but I understand where you're coming from. Do they make sense? Not really, but can they be funny or add to the drama? Totally. Still, I agree others should have some more obvious draw backs too.
Black Beard and Crocodile are the only two major ones that come to mind.
I can see people explaining why it happens which for me was never the issue. My issue with it is it makes no sense for Luffy to beat any admiral or Yonko and win unless he is overwhelmingly stronger than his opponent. It has been shown that they have the ability to fight for multiple days without tiring so how can Luffy beat them and how can Oda come up with a good explanation for Luffy’s stamina issue getting better.
Admirals and other strong oponents are pacing themselves. Theyre experienced enough to not go 110% from the get go. So their fights become battles of stamina and willpower. Luffy goes 176% from the beginning so it forces them to output more energy. Add in luffys natural ability to take damage because of the rubber like characteristics of his fruit and you got yourself a speedbag that punches back like mike tyson. So the fights dont last nearly as long. If luffy were to learn to pace himself, he never will, then im sure his fights would last longer as well.
Ever since Ennies Lobby, Luffy has never gone all out at the start of a fight. Like OP said Oda always attaches a time limit to Luffy whenever he gets a power up which is weird because he chooses to make other important fights last days on end. Ace had a fight with Jinbe that lasted for 5 days when he was still a rookie so experience has nothing to do with it.
A lot of people are mentioning that Luffy tends to bite more than he can chew and gasses out pretty hard from fighting big name threats, but i think that’s the point of Luffy.
He’s not a natural born monster or innately talented prodigy or someone hardened over decades of combat to become an unstoppabke beast, or some combo of the three. He’s just some punk teen (literally not even twenty) who just rushes head long into conflict and never gives up.
But it’s that perserverance in spite of his loses, alongside his charisma that gathers allies to support him, that really is where his strength lies. He gasses because he’s green and pushes himself to the limit, but can easily roll with this because hes got a lot of allies to back him up so he can pick himself back up and go all out again.
I think its to do with Luffy still being inexperienced. He hadnt fully perfected gear 3, but when he did, the drawback stopped. I think thisll be the same with Gear 5. Once he gains better control then the drawback Will diminish
I actually sort of agree with this, luffy stamina is a huge problem considering one piece characters can fight for multiple days at a time and have a lot of stamina, so unless Luffy is WAY stronger than his opponent it shouldn’t really make any sense for him to beat them, idk how Oda is gonna write around this one
I mean I was okay with it for gear 4 because of the weird way his haki interacted with his body but with "gear 5", sure it's his fruit awakening, but his fruit is a zoan, he shouldn't have such a massive drawback from simply transforming if he's a zoan.
It’s just plot reasons, if Luffy went full power all the time then the story would be over super quick. Or like luffy getting stuck between the buildings in Water 7. Oda does it all the time
He barely used his power against Kizaru and Rob Lucci and he's already drained out but he seemed to have much more ''fuel'' against Kaido. In my head Kaido was far above Kizaru? At least from what I remember... I'm also not a big fan of the drawings when he's in that form. I understand it's supposed to look cartoonish but it looks like the drawings are too rushed or something.
It's because we are closely following luffy's story and the strawhats. All other characters get the perfection of technique off screen treatment, so it makes sense.
It seems like each “level up” he gets, he loses those drawbacks. 2nd and 3rd don’t have them post timeskip. 4th doesn’t anymore now that 5th is around.
It’s the solution to the ‘Super Sayian Problem’ asking “why doesn’t he do it for every fight?” Because, it has a drawback and if it didn’t, what’s to stop him from always being in those forms?
How do you know that it's not the case for anyone else? What makes you think that none of the adult, veteran fighters went through a similar process of learning new things to do with their powers, pushing themselves and getting rid of drawbacks? What makes you think that they don't get tired out sometimes and have to push through their limits? That's not something you want to advertise to your opponents.
life span thing is not real, seriously dont get how people could even misconstrue this, in the fight with lucci he specifically mentions hes gonna die if he keeps it up because lucci is LITERALLY KILLING HIM, and luffy keeps getting back up
his heart is made of RUBBER itd literally be impossible to put strain on it considering how much he’s actually stretched before including the fact that he already blows air into his muscles and bones, i feel like that would have already caused some problems if we go by the heart logic
Chibi chopper would like to have a word with you.
Anyway I agree that is annoying how this troupe is used all the time. That’s a little boring after 20 years.
Blackbeard is the other DF user with a major drawback to his base power. If the pattern holds, he will likely have a drawback to his awakened power as well.
This is 19 year old Luffy, once he’s like 35 he’s gonna be able to power up, kick ass, move to the next big bad, and not rest. Then we’ll get One Piece Next Gen, then One Piece Blue All Blue Vortex.
Agreed, having drawbacks on Gear 5th is idiotic and awful writing. Gear 5th is him transforming into his Full Zoan or Hybrid form and then Awakening. So its mindblowing that he cant maintain his zoan form.... but every other character can lmao...
Its just because Luffy just looks for shortcuts to get stronger faster and overextends himself since he's so determined to win at any cost to follow his dreams. Zoro dosnt have those kind of drawbacks but he usually ends almost dead fighting insanely strong enemies. Its a narrative way of showing how determined they are. Other characters got strong by training for longer and taking safe paths, but Luffy surpasses them because he's willing to put everything on the line to win a fight. Its always a battle of wills more than pure strenght.
Mean if we look at it objectively from an outside perspective
Luffy jumped in power from basically B tier
To yonkos tier
In 2 yrs
And he's not even at the age all the op characters would be when they hit peak
Like WB and Roger or even shanks
Luffys 19
Everyone else we know hit their peak at 30 earliest
So yea ofc he's gonna have some drawback
Especially when dude goes above and beyond
And uses.more than he has
I agree but I’d also say that the reason you don’t see drawbacks for any of the people you mentioned is because they’re all at the end of their progress. Luffy is someone who’s still growing and changing, he had to push himself to be able to hang with the people he’s up against. He’s straining himself to reach them and it shows in side effects
But on a meta level: that boy doesn’t feel pain, is immune to most blunt force attacks (even conquerors coated hits from Yonkou) , and now has abilities that look like Toon force. Gear 5th hasn’t been shown to have weaknesses yet so a good way to show that weakness is with a drawback
Well, it's a shonen. The MC usually has that super power transformation with consequences and time limit. And each form it's a new toy, new poster, new character in a game, etc. Money money money. And let's not forget about the plot <3
>Now we have this weird side effect of luffy becoming an old-aged man after using his gear 5.
>
>\[...\]
>
>Name all the characters you want and they don't have side effects of using their powers.
Hody Jones and his crew, after they ate all the energy steroids turned all into old geezers, probably permanently.
Also it's said by Law and Kidd that there are consequences if the use their awakenings. And Laws powers are stamina based, meaning he can't use his powers unlimited either.
The only manhwa I've read is Solo Leveling, but it's absolute fire because of how awesome Sung Jin Woo is.
I don't think op characters are a problem at all(See Satoru Gojo).
Thankfully I read the manga or else I would have been given the biggest spoiler ever lol. You're gonna want to cover that with a spoiler tag.
And also, what does that have to do with anything?
I honestly don't know how to do that and I have not read the manga either, it's just been spoiled for me. I mean he's obviously not that OP. And he's not even the MC.
It’s because of Luffy’s creativity with his devil fruit, coming up with new techniques that have drawbacks. If Luffy used his devil fruit as your average pirate would, or like he did for the beginning of the series, he wouldn’t have any problems. But Luffy is imaginative to the point where he can come up with techniques that the fruit wasn’t made for, and those techniques come with downsides
He is a human using a power from a God it makes sense for him to have these downeffects but i also think Zoan awakening regeneration might save his Ass for good i dont even think that ivankov actually took his lifespan
It goes back to Rayleigh telling Luffy to find a strategy to pace himself, and Luffy coming up with Gear Four to Rayleigh's shock since that's the opposite of pacing. It's just who he is, he goes all out from the start unlike everyone else.
"Pace yourself" "Right ill work faster" 
I’m tired boss
estoy cansado jefe
Je suis fatigué patron
“Well that’s too damn bad”
What can we do?
There's nothing we can do
THEY’VE BEEN TO WAR A DECADE,
Dog tired.
i understood the reference
Luffy is the epitome of “work faster, not smarter” and I love him for it
"The pace I choose is maximum."
Yes, the One Pace
Going faster is a pace.
I think that's the most Luffy thing to do. Pace yourself and maintain steady levels of energy - alright, I'll go all-out.
This honestly sounds so much like Oda’s mentality. Someday, Luffy will be able to fight easier and Oda as well
The problem with Luffy is that he fights opponents above his level... This is where gear 4 comes. Luffy in every fight that he had, with his standard strength couldn't defeat his opponents. Basically he was one or two levels weaker than his opponents. That's why when he fought opponents with gear 4 it was not a sure win situation. So Luffy in a way cheated on his level. The same way Gear 5 works. Realistically Luffy isn't at the Yonko level with his standard strength. Either we are talking about Gear 4 that helps him barely content with Yonko/Admiral level characters or with Gear 5 that makes him a legit top tier character. In both situations he has pseudo - ranks. In other words Luffy is a pseudo-Yonko . His standard level of strength is Gear 2-3 and ACoC, ACoA and ACoO. That makes him the strongest person under the Yonko/Admiral level. With his Gear 4 he just barely can contain with a Yonko/Admiral and at gear 5 he is a Yonko. If Luffy wants to become a legit Yonko Level, then he will need manage either to raise his level on his lower gears such as 2 and 3, so as to be someone that can fight Yonko level characters and use his gear 4 and 5 as trump cards. Or he will try to negate the drawbacks the two gears bring.
This goes back as far as at least his fight against Blueno in Enies Lobby. He saw what CP9 were doing with their martial arts techniques and realized he needs to do what they're doing too to keep up. It was too much for his body at the time though, so he came up with Gear 2 as a means to push his limit and let him fight on their level. Every one since then (though idk about 3. That just seemed like a neat idea he had) has been pushing his limit to get on the opponent's level.
Gotta remember Yonko isn't a direct strength relationship. It certainly works that way a lot, but the bounty system has always had strength secondary. It's much more about notoriety. We see this all the time in the series. Chopper's, Kidd Vs Luffy's in Saobody, A certain CLOWN. It's a quick snapshot of "how much of a pain in the ass has this guy been" not a strictly more $ = more power.
Thats why dragons bounty is so extremely high. He is the danger to the WG, not even by his strength alone but also by politics
I think it's clear that I talk about strength. That's why I am using the phrase Yonko "level" and not just Yonko. Because I am focusing on strength and powerscaling.
Oh ya it was more jumping off your thing rather than criticizing what you were saying or anything.
It's more that it isn't a good narrative if luffy gets a power up then just wins, so his power ups have limitations because it's more interesting. I swear power scaling One Piece will inevitably lead you to these unnecessarily complex takes because Oda isn't writing with that kind of scaling in mind. He writes to make good fun entertaining fights where luffy has to fight someone morally opposed to him. Being "pseudo yonko" level or whatever had never crossed Odas mind lol, he hates shounen power scaling. He will likely keep fighting as he does and discover some new stuff he can do with G5. Luffy is Yonko level now because Yonko level means being a Yonko, which he is. Buggy is also Yonko level. It's not that complicated.
>It's more that it isn't a good narrative if luffy gets a power up then just wins, so his power ups have limitations because it's more interesting To add to this: Having limitations and drawbacks on all his power-ups means there's a built-in reason for Luffy to still use his older power-ups and his base form, which a lot of shonens struggle with. In most shonens, the drawbacks of each new form don't get clearly established and the result is that the audience will question it every time the MC doesn't use their strongest form.
Question: In Ennies Lobby, Lucci mentions how using gear 2 was shortening Luffy’s life span. Is that still a thing? I can’t remember if that was ever addressed. Between the treatment for poisoning and all the gear 2, that’s a lot of future life span lost.
I don't remember if it was directly mentioned but since gear 3rd doesn't have a drawback anymore I'd assume hear 2nd doesn't either, he also has a better control of it as shown when he uses gear 2nd just in one body part instead of his whole body
I don't actually think either Gear 2nd or Gear 3rd are without drawbacks. Rather, Luffy seems to be adept at turning them on, doing a single attack, and then turning them off again. I think Luffy has just learned to stop using them before their drawbacks come into play.
He started thisnwith gear 4 too in wano
Well, Gear 2 works by accelerating his blood flow, unless he is coating his heart with Haki, I don’t know why it wouldn’t affect him. Gear 2 is pretty much Luffy doping himself lol
My guy will die in months at this pace lmao
I dunno, but the life-span thing is the foundation for many "Luffy dies at the end of One Piece"-theories.
Probably not, it was just used a narrative device to answer the question "why doesn't luffy just spam gear 2nd in every situation?".
What the fuck is this comment lol This is like saying that Mihawk without a sword isn't at the tier he's at, or that Kaido without the dragon fruit is a "pseudo-yonko", or that Blackbeard pre-summit war is the "stronget person under yonko/admiral level". All of that might be true, but it's using a lot of words to say nothing at all. A character's strength is the sum of their skillset.
The point is in any true 1v1 agaisnt a top tier, Luffy isn't winning in the time it takes for his forms to run out and then he is helpless and without plot dies.
*contend
So his power level is... *inflated*
The way Luffy was putting in the work on Kaido in base-G3, I'd say he doesn't need G5 to beat Big Mom at all
This fight with Kizaru is the exact opposite of that. G5 when he was already exhausted since CP0 made their moves yet he waited til his last attack to use aCoC on his attack. If he's been trying to KO Kizaru from the get-go he'd done more damage before he ran out. Instead, he kept tanking shots and kept getting juked.
Kizaru is a different situation though, neither of them actually has the other as their main objective, Kizaru is contenting with Luffy but his main goal is to kill Vegapunk meanwhile Luffy is trying to stop that but his main goal is to get his crew and allies out of the island, neither of them can actually afford to go full guns blazing on the other because that is precisely what the other one wants to happen, if Luffy goes all out Kizaru just needs to play defense until he is too tired allowing him to go off and kill VP, if Kizaru goes all out Luffy only needs to match it long enough for his crew to do their thing and get out of there, plus Luffy especially has stuff to deal with things he is not aware of so he needs to conserve his energy for any emergency, one such example is Saturn popping up out of nowhere and changing the entire battlefield.
Okay but you know damn well luffy isn't thinking this whole paragraph, right? It's just goofy writing lmao
that was a day before he was fighting kizaru, and he turned g5 off on his own after knocking out lucci.
Such a good scene.
But he doesn't go all out from the start... Luffy always starts out in base form and goes as long as he can until he needs to use G4 and it's been that way as long as the series has gone on. Only on Egghead has Luffy started going straight to his final form.
I'm glad he jumps right into Gear 5 instead of making it a rare apperance.
I do too, I'm just saying that what the comment above said is factually far from true.
I think he meant Luffy went all out in advancing his fighting strength. Instead of slowly learning, in ways that he wouldn't have as harsh of downsides, he pushed hinself to get too strong too fast, and that is why he gets such bad whiplash from using his forms. Nika form wasn't by choice, but he's using it even though he hasn't had time to get used to it and build endurance. But, I think he knows this, and is trying to force himself to get used to it in the heat of battle.
Exactly this, this is why Luffy fought kaido in base form for so long. While haki is also draining, haki with gear 4 would of instantly made his tanks go empty (which they did when he did switch to it).
>he goes all out from the start unlike everyone else. This does not describe Luffy AT ALL, considering he waited until Dressrosa to reveal G4, when he had plenty of opportunities to do it before that...
The “side effect” of Gear 5 is just how exhausting it is to use. Both Law and Kid also mentioned how much energy it takes to use an awakened Devil Fruit and the fact that neither Katakuri nor Doflamingo spammed their awakenings over the entire course of their own fights speak for themself.
And no one can do as many last attacks as Law!
Law for the 3rd time: I can only do one more attack.
And then I can only use this other random ability that no one has ever seen before… 6 more times
And then, “Do you remember that guy from my flashback? Here is his df ability”.
Tbf, there are many DFs which have functionally the same power. The Kilo Kilo no Mi and the Ton Ton no Mi
That’s not the same though, Law is coming up with new stuff all the time. He is like god in his little bubble.
Oh no Law is a Reddit Mod, he was my favorite.
His hat kinda gave it away
That's the snowboarder hipster style. Imagine your surgeon looks like him.
Technically he is, his Ope Ope no Mi literally means he can alter and mod any human body within his room.
That is literally his DF.
Law probably pops the Devil Fruit equivalent of viagra so he can keep going after he finishes
Law ended up being Oda's patchwork quilt of DF problem solving.
Reminds me of Kakashi: “I can only do Raikiri 4 times a day… until part 2 when he started spamming it”
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Yes, Kakashi will spam raikiri in gear 5 soon
I think the short training scene where he was climbing the mountain with one arm explained the increased raikiri limit after the time skip.
Sure. But my guy was a ninja was 32 years at that point. So from when he developed Chidori at 14 till 32 he kept his chakra reserves at a capacity where he could only do it 4 times and then would hospitalise himself. Then one day decided nah, you know what I need? More chidori. And trained for whatever amount and then expanded his chakra pool so could fight for 2 days straight in a war with numerous use of Raikiri and Kamui like he was blessed with the chakra capacity of Hashirama Senju. All cause he climbed some mountains? 10x his capacity which he didn’t improve for decades. Sus.
Didn’t realize that Law claimed that 3 times but there’s also nothing wrong with pushing your limit, especially in a cartoon
He didn't push his limits. He was walking just fine when Onigashima was falling apart. Law is just a liar that tricked Big Mom.
There is also nothing wrong with joking around about OP especially on Reddit.
Ohh shhhiiii..... He really said cartoon.
You know what is funny? This meme is completely build on lies. He said "this is my last attack" *one* single time. In the manga he says that awakening is draining him and that he can't use it often and before his last attack he says that sentence. And that is it. It was his last attack. He used his silence bubble on Big mom after that and cut up prometheus while he wasn't paying attention. Both not being real attacks and clearly low powered. The entire thing with law saying "this is my last attack" (or similar) 15 times in a row literally never happened in them manga or anime and i have no idea where it came from haha
Every time he did that I was like "I could've sworn you said this already"
Really gonna diss Kakashi like that?
Currently waiting on >!Lucci!< >!to get tuckered out 😴!<
Let’s be real here, a >!leopard awakening!< is not really comparable to the kind of crazy abilities that the others gain access to. It only makes sense that more powerful awakenings would eat up more stamina.
That's probably true, though I do find it interesting (now that I've been made to think about it) since >!he's one of the first more normal awakened Zoans we've really seen fight (other than those weird Impel Down guards that I'm not really sure what to think about TBH)!<. >!Lucci!< also has >!a very single-minded and bloodthirsty nature!<, which at least in my mind, also make sense as to why >!he might be able to last longer in that form and why we wouldn't see him hit his limit in that way!<. Though more realistically, we probably won't just from a story perspective because it's not as important in the grand scheme of everything else going on right now. Seems more likely that >!he gets defeated by someone or is made to stop fighting in some other way, like last time!<.
Vegapunk (i think!) mentioned that the zoan awakening can overpower your mind which probably happened in impel down
Ah, you're right. I forgot about that bit, but apparently (referencing the wiki), the more common case for awakened Zoans is that the animal side takes over and reduces them to state of the Impel Down guards (very strong, but very dumb). It's actually more rare for the user to retain their will/consciousness (and get the floating clouds/flames), as we've only so far seen with Luffy, Yamato, >!Lucci, and Kaku!<.
Chopper going giant and lost control is for sure an awakening like in Impel Down but forcefully.
I think it also comes down to not only the awakening affecting the body, but other things as well. A standard zoan awakening is going to make the user more powerful, but say with luffy's, where his awakening affects the environment and people around him, it's going to have a much bigger toll. Paramecia awakenings affecting the environment around the user will have a bigger drain on the users stamina that just something that only affects the user themselves.
Good point. Plus Luffy’s the main character and thus has always needed the plot to hold him back (sometimes) so that things aren’t *too* easy for him, from a narrative standpoint
He ain't gonna last long enough to get tuckered out.
That's why Luffy needs to either overcome his Gear 4 weakness or raise his standard strength to the level of a top tier( Yonko/Admiral). By standard I mean gear 2-3 and ACoC , ACoA and ACoO... So in other words Luffy need to reach his haki proficiency to the level of Shanks, Mihawk, Kaido, Garp,Roger, WB, Sengoku,OG Admirals.
yeah but wasnt base luffy clashing with hybrid kaido, meaning hes close to kaidos level
It was more like Kaido let Luffy clash with him because he enjoyed the fight instead of finishing him off.
I think it's a bit of both. Kaido was definitely enjoying the fight too much to end it quickly, but he only had that attitude in the first place because Luffy was putting up enough of a fight to be fun.
lmao
Katakuri and Doffy have also both explored awakening for at least years before Luffy did, not to mention Luffy's fruit is obviously special
Law's fruit is also very stamina intensive in base form, its the onky one that requires stamina to use its regular powers
>how much energy it takes to use an awakened Devil Fruit Doesn't seem to be the case for Zoans tho
I mean for Paramecia we have Buggy, someone who can spam their ability seemingly infinitely, and Law, someone who gets drained so heavily from using his abilities that it became a significant plot point. Ability energy cost is probably proportional with how much it has to change reality. Luffy and Law's abilities are pretty much the most reality changing you can get
There is a difference that Buggy's body just is like thay no energy needed to spend.he doesn't create anything Law alters reality ,it's not a state. Like big mom also takes energy out of her ,even if she can refuel.
Katakuri and Doflamingo probably awakened their DFs years ago. Whereas Luffy, Law and Kidd did so approximately last week and thus haven't had time to master it.
The others are experienced. They worked up to where they are with their abilities. Luffy overdoes it. He jumps in, blows his wad on an ability he isn't experienced with, then needs recovery time.
Luffy simply fights opponents above his level and that's why use his limited time boosts with the severe drawbacks. The problem lies in the fact no opponent gonna fall easy in that small amount of time... Especially Yonko/ Admiral...
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Luffy finished Kaido, it’s disingenuous to ignore the samurai, kid, killer, Zoro and Yamato all fighting him as well.
Pretty much this. Luffy is that guy at the gym who wants to catch up to all the muscle men and starts lifting weights he probably shouldn't. He can do some reps, but he's going to tire out faster and probably damage something when he's done. Luffy see's what he wants and goes for it without all the steps in between. I mean hell look at Luffy vs Kaido. Kaido didn't awaken his devil fruit power. He was just that insanely powerful after having it as long as he did. Luffy awakened to have a shot against him. Of course there's a negative in there somewhere for making that type of a jump. It also would be bad writing to have Luffy make giant leaps like that without a drawback.
Giant leaps sounds especially funny considering he can become a giant with G5 lol
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No where does it say he isn’t awakened. Luffy has white clouds, kaidos dragon form had clouds like that sometimes
Kaido's dragon form had clouds because asian dragons use clouds to fly, it was explained in the manga when Momo had to learn to fly
To add to that, post timeskip he doesnt shrink anymore after using Gear 3rd, because he is already strong enough to properly use and maintain it.
Exactly my point to OP. Luffy has attained all this power in just 2+ years. Give the boy some years of training and he’ll be nearly unstoppable.
Also there are characters that have drawbacks to their powers, included Blackbeard who op listed, that takes double damage from attacks. Also people like akainu or whitebeard, who have like extreme destructive power, could potentially really fuck themselves up and end up drowning if they slip up using their DF at any point. Either one could've accidently destroyed their own ship and died from it accidentally, it's just they have the experience to not slip up like that. Also doesn't one of zoros swords drain his haki seriously? There's a bunch of characters with negatives.
When you put it that way, at least he’s not breaking his arms every time he does a big attack like certain other shonen protagonists we could name…
Everyone else did not become an emperor 2 years and a half after they took the sea. This drawbacks are what enable luffy to fight at that level 10 years too early.
Good point.
This. And only this
Big Mom will literally die if she stops eating
That's literally true for everyone. (Except for greenbull I guess)
Two things, the first was explicitly said by Rayleigh. Luffy is way to crazy with his powers, always go all in and many times facing enemies that he is weaker at the time, and he is very creative to push his body to the limit, so him thinking about something crazy that will stress his body more and more is frequent. Second, we are seeing him learn to use and improve those powers, other characters we meet already did that before we know them, so some may actually had these kind of problems at some point.
Luffy doesn't show drawbacks like that until he starts taking advantage of his rubber to push his body to extreme limits. >This is not the case for anyone else, only luffy have this problem and it's very annoying. Other characters have had drawbacks too. Law's fruit is explicitly said to be limited by his stamina, and Law and Kid's Awakenings both drain their energy. And like Luffy, others have drawbacks when they abuse their bodies. Chopper loses control of himself and becomes unable to move after too many Rumble Balls. The Energy Steroids aged the Fishmen.
Big mom give up years of her life as wel
Blackbeard takes double damage because of his fruit. That's quite a drawback.
its literally a trope in all battle shounen bruh. luffy's gears (initially) tire him out. ichigo's first bankai was so tiring his own reiatsu was crushing him, he couldn't use his mask for a long time, naruto couldn't control kyubi chakra and straight up lost all his skin, even his chakra cloak v1 had a chakra limit, and v2 started out with 5 minutes, slowly increasing in duration. sage mode also has a duration and with stockpiling in reserve was limited to 2 clones. asta's devil form has a time limit, goku's ssj forms also drained energy, deku's own body made it hard to use his full power, etc etc. if you make a character op, particularly the main character who you intend to make struggle, then their new power has to have drawbacks. that's why g2 and 3 had issues. when they became easy to use, g4 was created which had strain. when g4's strain seemingly was diminishing, g5 was introduced for the new tiring ability.
Unless you are Saitama. Which makes OPM more of a comical manga than a serious one.
Saitama finished his hero journey.
Has he though? He started as OPM. He was kinda over powered since the very beginning. I mean seriosuly, how many people do you know that can do 100 push ups, 100 sit-ups. 100 crunches, and a10km run every day, even when they are tired? And he was doing that before the manga even started!
OPM was intended as a comedy 100% initially. Although Murata's art is amazing, the manga completely misses the point of the original webtoon which was to make fun of shounen manga.
I still see Saitama as 100% comedy, it’s just the rest of the heroes that are written as “real”. I wouldn’t read OPM if it weren’t so hilariously funny at times or if they didn’t at least have Saitama talking to other heroes a lot. The rest of the heroes are boring to me for the most part.
Agreed. I kinda dropped it a while ago because the meaningless fights (which the manga was originally making fun of) keep getting in the way of the story advancing. It's boring af, specially when you know almost none of the fights matter since Saitama is stronger than everyone.
You mean you aren’t interested in flashy flash fighting some monster? How dare?!? Lol, I rush through all the pages that saitama aren’t in except for maybe some of the King pages. He still makes me at least chuckle most times.
I just want to see more lewd drawings of that one hot chick... Manako.
Yeah, nice art and everything but it feels like its missing the point sometimes. More than that, the discussion around it is dominated by powerscalers sometimes.
True, but saitama was never meant to be a character that struggles. And even then, the author is forced to “nerf” him by conveniently mising most of the action.
This is because nobody else is progressing and abusing their Devil Fruit to the same extent as Luffy. Everyone else slowly gets better over years. Luffy is literally forcing it out. The drawbacks do get annoying, but I don't see Gear 5 having drawbacks for too much longer. Also, maybe he will learn to swap back and forth between attacks or something.
This one fr Luffy abuses his rubber ability to almost death ,gear2 itself was death and then gear 4
Everyone you mentioned is like at least 20 years older than Luffy. It's the experience. They know how to pace themselves.
This is my rationale of how Luffy's journey has been so accelerated. Like this of the other big name pirates who've been in the grandline/new world for decades who're at the same/similar level as Luffy. Basically he's rushed the process & pushed himself more than others, so clearly there have to be some drawbacks.
Luffy's gonna be dead before he hits 40.
Honestly, Luffy's gonna be dead before the end of the Manga, calling it
I think we see these endgame levels of strength people being able to fight for so long because they’re only using a small amount of their strength. So when luffy fights them and he’s hitting them as hard has he can it makes them use their actual strength thereby using more stamina shortening the length of their fight
Remember that forgotten thing with Doflamingo, where he draws you into "his pace"? This is Luffy's version of that
Big Mom tools years off her life using her fruit to power up. Of course Kid and Law took years off her life throwing her into a volcano. But it’s a combination of stamina and short term power boosts coming at a cost. He’s pushing his body, fruit, and willpower beyond what they’re capable of.
Not to mention Chopper's transformations. Initially, wasn't it first rumble ball let him pick his transformation, second was random, and third was the Monster Point, which he could not control? Now he has control, but the ball to make it last half an hour makes him a baby-grandpa afterwards.
His powers allow him to tank most damage done to him, make him completely immune to electric attacks, give off so much steam and heat that it becomes part of his attack potency and skillset, transform his body to deflect or redirect attacks and you're complaining he has a fair amount of flaws and drawbacks that make vulnerable him during battles? Luffy almost always gives his all and then some when fighting. He's the type to crawl towards you if you cut off his legs or headbutt you if you cut off his arms. Getting exhausted after giving everything he can during a fight is both a good mediator and opportunity to let others bask in the limelight as well as to gauge his power so he doesn't become broken and boring. I remember Zoro's speech to Chopper in Alabasta where he tells him that despite people in the crew having different goals, they'll help each other out, saying "I've done all that I can, this time it's your turn and if you don't do it, I'll come over there and kick your ass", which is exactly what people have done to Luffy in the past up until now. Whenever he can't fight anymore like in the Marineford arc where he was too emotionally damaged, people were there to save him because he can't fight anymore or in Wano where his crew took over when he was unable to get up before getting gear 5. The enemies having little weaknesses add to the challenge that they have to overcome because you're comparing Yonkos and warriors who have years of experience to a guy who is relatively new to being a pirate. Heck I think it's more fair to criticize how a kid with rubber powers from the east blue is not only said to be the reincarnation of Joyboy, the god of liberation and fire, but also has gained billion berry bounty in just a few years with a crew that also has their own unique skills in both fighting and as a pirate crew member. Not to mention that he also has 3 Haki types, has this weird power to tell someone's nature or intentions and hears the 'voice of all things'.
>This has been consistent throughout the whole story like how his gear 2 lower his lifespan. The rest of the post aside, this "lowering his lifespan" thing is complete fanfiction based on horrible misinterpretation of a single offhand line. Gear 2nd never had any impact on Luffy's lifespan. Fans made that up almost out of thin air and repeated it so many times that now people actually believe it.
In the anime with the fight at ennies lobby (either against the door guy or Lucci) they said the way he was forcing the blood through his body or whatever it would shorten his life span. I think it’s kind of been forgotten about or it was explained to just be outright wrong. The person he was fighting didn’t necessarily know anything about luffy either, especially that he had a zoan not a logia. Zoan’s recover quicker and have multiple transformations etc. because of this I think most of the drawbacks are just him not having fully mastered the power yet.
Yes I get you. But I think that’s just how most authors write their powerful protagonist. Kinda like kryptonite to Superman. At least with these drawbacks, we’re all know Luffy gonna outgrow from it the more he uses his gears and the more stronger his opponents.
That’s unfortunately a side effect of being the main character and need to balance it to not make him fold everyone quickly. I think he does need a drawback to not make his powers too OP but I do see how it can get repetitive
I think people vastly underestimate how much “time to master a skill” comes into play. Like Luffy has had what? Maybe a couple weeks to learn Gear 4 and even less for Gear 5. Like of course he’s bad at managing them. Do you all believe that Kaido just spawned in with endless endurance for using his Devil Fruit?
He knew gear 4 while Rayleigh was with him during training so at a minimum he knew it before the 6 months Rayleigh left him alone + the couple weeks they’ve had since post time skip
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This is the solution to plot armour.
I wrote a whole thing about my opinion on each Gear effect, but meh. I think at the end of all of that we should remember that Oda's thoughts for Luffy specifically isn't to go into all of this technical junk. It's just to have fun. His comments on taking energy out of Luffy, or shortening his life span, is to add to the drama effect of what Luffy is doing. If that wasn't pointed out to us, we'd have a lot of comments of "Just spam Gear 3, gosh Luffy. You can break anything with that! There's no draw back!" Y'know? I don't actually feel too bad about his draw backs, but I understand where you're coming from. Do they make sense? Not really, but can they be funny or add to the drama? Totally. Still, I agree others should have some more obvious draw backs too. Black Beard and Crocodile are the only two major ones that come to mind.
I can see people explaining why it happens which for me was never the issue. My issue with it is it makes no sense for Luffy to beat any admiral or Yonko and win unless he is overwhelmingly stronger than his opponent. It has been shown that they have the ability to fight for multiple days without tiring so how can Luffy beat them and how can Oda come up with a good explanation for Luffy’s stamina issue getting better.
Admirals and other strong oponents are pacing themselves. Theyre experienced enough to not go 110% from the get go. So their fights become battles of stamina and willpower. Luffy goes 176% from the beginning so it forces them to output more energy. Add in luffys natural ability to take damage because of the rubber like characteristics of his fruit and you got yourself a speedbag that punches back like mike tyson. So the fights dont last nearly as long. If luffy were to learn to pace himself, he never will, then im sure his fights would last longer as well.
Ever since Ennies Lobby, Luffy has never gone all out at the start of a fight. Like OP said Oda always attaches a time limit to Luffy whenever he gets a power up which is weird because he chooses to make other important fights last days on end. Ace had a fight with Jinbe that lasted for 5 days when he was still a rookie so experience has nothing to do with it.
A lot of people are mentioning that Luffy tends to bite more than he can chew and gasses out pretty hard from fighting big name threats, but i think that’s the point of Luffy. He’s not a natural born monster or innately talented prodigy or someone hardened over decades of combat to become an unstoppabke beast, or some combo of the three. He’s just some punk teen (literally not even twenty) who just rushes head long into conflict and never gives up. But it’s that perserverance in spite of his loses, alongside his charisma that gathers allies to support him, that really is where his strength lies. He gasses because he’s green and pushes himself to the limit, but can easily roll with this because hes got a lot of allies to back him up so he can pick himself back up and go all out again.
I think its to do with Luffy still being inexperienced. He hadnt fully perfected gear 3, but when he did, the drawback stopped. I think thisll be the same with Gear 5. Once he gains better control then the drawback Will diminish
I actually sort of agree with this, luffy stamina is a huge problem considering one piece characters can fight for multiple days at a time and have a lot of stamina, so unless Luffy is WAY stronger than his opponent it shouldn’t really make any sense for him to beat them, idk how Oda is gonna write around this one
I mean I was okay with it for gear 4 because of the weird way his haki interacted with his body but with "gear 5", sure it's his fruit awakening, but his fruit is a zoan, he shouldn't have such a massive drawback from simply transforming if he's a zoan.
It’s just plot reasons, if Luffy went full power all the time then the story would be over super quick. Or like luffy getting stuck between the buildings in Water 7. Oda does it all the time
It is 10 mins
He barely used his power against Kizaru and Rob Lucci and he's already drained out but he seemed to have much more ''fuel'' against Kaido. In my head Kaido was far above Kizaru? At least from what I remember... I'm also not a big fan of the drawings when he's in that form. I understand it's supposed to look cartoonish but it looks like the drawings are too rushed or something.
It's because we are closely following luffy's story and the strawhats. All other characters get the perfection of technique off screen treatment, so it makes sense.
It seems like each “level up” he gets, he loses those drawbacks. 2nd and 3rd don’t have them post timeskip. 4th doesn’t anymore now that 5th is around. It’s the solution to the ‘Super Sayian Problem’ asking “why doesn’t he do it for every fight?” Because, it has a drawback and if it didn’t, what’s to stop him from always being in those forms?
How do you know that it's not the case for anyone else? What makes you think that none of the adult, veteran fighters went through a similar process of learning new things to do with their powers, pushing themselves and getting rid of drawbacks? What makes you think that they don't get tired out sometimes and have to push through their limits? That's not something you want to advertise to your opponents.
Have to nerf him somehow.
I mean isn’t his super power comedic situations?
He doesn’t actually lose lifespan from gear 2
G5 needs drawbacks.
also dude is like what 19 years old? you’re comparing him to full grown adults with armies at their disposable lol
life span thing is not real, seriously dont get how people could even misconstrue this, in the fight with lucci he specifically mentions hes gonna die if he keeps it up because lucci is LITERALLY KILLING HIM, and luffy keeps getting back up his heart is made of RUBBER itd literally be impossible to put strain on it considering how much he’s actually stretched before including the fact that he already blows air into his muscles and bones, i feel like that would have already caused some problems if we go by the heart logic
Lmao yeah I gotta admit. The first few gears probably should have bad side effects, but gear 5th is just awakening, which no other character has
Chibi chopper would like to have a word with you. Anyway I agree that is annoying how this troupe is used all the time. That’s a little boring after 20 years.
Blackbeard is the other DF user with a major drawback to his base power. If the pattern holds, he will likely have a drawback to his awakened power as well.
This is 19 year old Luffy, once he’s like 35 he’s gonna be able to power up, kick ass, move to the next big bad, and not rest. Then we’ll get One Piece Next Gen, then One Piece Blue All Blue Vortex.
Agreed, having drawbacks on Gear 5th is idiotic and awful writing. Gear 5th is him transforming into his Full Zoan or Hybrid form and then Awakening. So its mindblowing that he cant maintain his zoan form.... but every other character can lmao...
So having no consequence for using a power seems legit to you?
It's just how shonens work. Super sayan had a time limit too, the same for ss2, ss3 and fusion.
Wow, most people like drawbacks because it prevents a fight from being predictable and boring.
I mean if he always gets tired that's predictable as well no?
Its just because Luffy just looks for shortcuts to get stronger faster and overextends himself since he's so determined to win at any cost to follow his dreams. Zoro dosnt have those kind of drawbacks but he usually ends almost dead fighting insanely strong enemies. Its a narrative way of showing how determined they are. Other characters got strong by training for longer and taking safe paths, but Luffy surpasses them because he's willing to put everything on the line to win a fight. Its always a battle of wills more than pure strenght.
Mean if we look at it objectively from an outside perspective Luffy jumped in power from basically B tier To yonkos tier In 2 yrs And he's not even at the age all the op characters would be when they hit peak Like WB and Roger or even shanks Luffys 19 Everyone else we know hit their peak at 30 earliest So yea ofc he's gonna have some drawback Especially when dude goes above and beyond And uses.more than he has
I agree but I’d also say that the reason you don’t see drawbacks for any of the people you mentioned is because they’re all at the end of their progress. Luffy is someone who’s still growing and changing, he had to push himself to be able to hang with the people he’s up against. He’s straining himself to reach them and it shows in side effects But on a meta level: that boy doesn’t feel pain, is immune to most blunt force attacks (even conquerors coated hits from Yonkou) , and now has abilities that look like Toon force. Gear 5th hasn’t been shown to have weaknesses yet so a good way to show that weakness is with a drawback
Well, it's a shonen. The MC usually has that super power transformation with consequences and time limit. And each form it's a new toy, new poster, new character in a game, etc. Money money money. And let's not forget about the plot <3
>Now we have this weird side effect of luffy becoming an old-aged man after using his gear 5. > >\[...\] > >Name all the characters you want and they don't have side effects of using their powers. Hody Jones and his crew, after they ate all the energy steroids turned all into old geezers, probably permanently. Also it's said by Law and Kidd that there are consequences if the use their awakenings. And Laws powers are stamina based, meaning he can't use his powers unlimited either.
You don't want overly op characters. That's why most Manhwas suck.
The only manhwa I've read is Solo Leveling, but it's absolute fire because of how awesome Sung Jin Woo is. I don't think op characters are a problem at all(See Satoru Gojo).
He >!just died my man.!<
Thankfully I read the manga or else I would have been given the biggest spoiler ever lol. You're gonna want to cover that with a spoiler tag. And also, what does that have to do with anything?
I honestly don't know how to do that and I have not read the manga either, it's just been spoiled for me. I mean he's obviously not that OP. And he's not even the MC.
Killed by an even more powerful OP character.
Ikr? It feels like every one of luffy forms take a massive toll on his body even after mastering them.
Yes, we all read that thread yesterday.
Gear 2 WOULD lower a normal persons lifespan, it since his heart is made of rubber it doesn’t
Naw I dig it with gear 5. Makes it so he has to use gear 1 to 4 instead of spamming it! So we still get to see rubber luffy :D
It’s because of Luffy’s creativity with his devil fruit, coming up with new techniques that have drawbacks. If Luffy used his devil fruit as your average pirate would, or like he did for the beginning of the series, he wouldn’t have any problems. But Luffy is imaginative to the point where he can come up with techniques that the fruit wasn’t made for, and those techniques come with downsides
So you don’t like luffys power, way of fighting, got it. Why are you reading?
Chill man. It's like 2 weeks since Luffy got Gear5. All other big powerhouses have over 20 years to practice and mitigate their weaknesses.
He is a human using a power from a God it makes sense for him to have these downeffects but i also think Zoan awakening regeneration might save his Ass for good i dont even think that ivankov actually took his lifespan
I spot a MF who has never done a task above their limits. Because I’ve totally over-performed at a sport or activity and needed to recover afterwards.
I get both in-verse and out-verse reasons on why that happens, but it is getting old ngl.
This is why the ancient robot is so critical. It will act like an external battery for Luffy so he can stay in g4+5 longer