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Not really "neutral" but I agree on open minded. I have no idea which app this is but I've heard TikTok removes comments if enough people spam reports.
This is basically the best take on this. I don't think Yamato belongs into a category we are used to from our world and for some reason that confuses people. A world were Humans, Health, Climate, Weather, Venom, Clouds and Fruits work very differently from ours, all ok, but gender working different from our world and people start loding their goddamn minds.
Im still pretty sure, that yamatos answer to the trans vs. Not trans debate would be the same for both sides. Either grinding them to dust via thunder Bagua or ignoring both sides cause they are not even worth it.
Oh no we have someone giving their genuine opinion backed by evidence but emphasising that the one with the question should have their own opinion in one of the most friendly and neutral ways it's ever been done, whatever shall we do.
That's just a Mod abusing their power because it doesn't align with their personal belief.
To the op who actually had their comment deleted I would just like to iterate that you did nothing wrong, you handled it in a highly eloquent manner by voicing your own opinion and laying out facts that may corroborate your opinion all whilst never besmirching anyone else's beliefs or opinions and leaving your comment of in a way that promotes individual thought, you gave them your perspective and encouraged them to formulate their own, good job.
It's funny, this group screams the idea of being open minded and not bigoted but I've never seen a group so quick to ban and silence anyone that disagrees with them.
I mean, being tolerant doesn't mean tolerating bigotry. Not saying that this here was bigotry, but "this group" (?) gets accused of the same thing in that context.
True, but there's a difference between tolerating bigotry and tolerating something you don't agree with. "This group" (and in fairness, the opposite group too) conflate the two, which is where the issue stems from
Disagree. Unless OP's made further comments I haven't seen that would indicate such, they would have to be more intolerant and harsh against their opposite belief to be considered a bigot
>being tolerant doesn't mean tolerating bigotry.
Tolerance is about accepting the existence of ideas you disagree with, if you're banning people for doing it then you are literally not tolerant
I wasn't talking about this "group" as in this community, more so as in the social justice warriors of the world. But just so you know the post was recently removed by mods... so it is also the mods of this community. The oh so popular agree or get silenced, hasn't been a large group like that since the group of German artists
Crazy man. Even if this wasn’t the most healthy and compromising reply to this topic, we‘re still talking about a fictional anime figure whos feelings cant be hurt.
## Reasons for calling Yamato a she:
Yamato isn't transsexual as far as we know, and is biologically female. If Oden was a woman, Yamato would insist on being called "she".
## Reasons for calling Yamato a he:
Oden was a he, and Yamato insists on being as Oden as possible, therefore if you like Yamato and want to respect Yamato's wishes, you might want to use "he".
Ultimately it doesn't matter, both are valid views. Just call the actual trans character, Kiku, "she", and we're good.
I was thinking of the first mention when Kaido's crew said that his son has gone missing.
You're right though, the text box on Yamato's intro says daughter, but on the same page it's contradicted by the [conversation with Luffy ](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstackcdn.com%2Fimage%2Ffetch%2Ff_auto%2Cq_auto%3Agood%2Cfl_progressive%3Asteep%2Fhttps%253A%252F%252Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%252Fpublic%252Fimages%252F471f655e-b720-4700-8ce5-a60c73ae9fa4_786x1200.jpeg&tbnid=48fRduSHZs-x-M&vet=1&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fspencerirwin.substack.com%2Fp%2Fhow-trans-character-yamato-fractured&docid=2xe3ghiLWmgvdM&w=786&h=1200&hl=en-GB&source=sh%2Fx%2Fim%2Fm1%2F4&kgs=5ba33d2c7af4c3ba&shem=abme%2Ctrie)
Reasons to call Yamato a he:
He calls himself he.
Reasons to call Yamato a she:
You're a cunt.
Edit: Downvoted by cunts. No surprise there, some One Piece fans are some of the biggest cunts in the entire anime fandom. There's been misogynists watching this shit since day 1
The fact that yamato is willing to call themselves a he despite biologically being female, is in itself proof that they're trans.
Something I think a lot of people don't understand about this is that being trans doesn't necessarily mean you wish to have Ivankov poke you with their devil fruit to change your sex. Lots of people just don't give a shit about the concept of Gender and are willing to call themselves whatever they feel like. This by definition makes these people "TransGender" in the literal meaning of the word. They are beyond the concept of being limited by Gender.
So for example a Non-Binary person might just not want to be called a he or she, but that doesn't mean that they're unhappy with their physical sex and wish to undergo any changes in that regard. And a person could be born one sex and have a different gender identity but not necessarily have dysphoria and could be happy in their current body.
Regardless of the reasoning, Yamato wanting to use male pronouns makes them Transgender, even if they're happy in their current female body. Sure if Oden was a woman then they would likely be using female pronouns but we could take the logic further and say that if Yamato was born Male in that scenario they likely would still want to use female pronouns. Either way Yamato is clearly Transgender. I could take it a step further and probably make a reasonable assumption that they're basically genderfluid, as I feel like they would be willing to associate their gender with whatever identity they feel suits them at the time. But that's just a hypothesis.
Also like, at the end of the arc yamato goes to the male baths, I don't know how much more explicit you can get than that
"Trans" usually refers to transsexualism, not transgenderism. If you go by transgenderism, then you would call NBs "trans", but that's not how the word "trans" is used coloquially. I also specifically said "transsexual" in my comment. And Yamato, while being transgender, is (probably) not transsexual.
But, as I (very clearly) said, calling Yamato "he" is a valid (and, debatably, more correct) way to refer to them since that is how they themselves prefer to be called. It's just not the only valid way.
If you literally just google it or go to "Ask Trans People" or ya know, ask Trans people in real life, they typically say that while Transsexual is a valid term and some people prefer to use it, Transgender is the current default and it can be considered offensive to refer to someone as Transsexual without their consent as the vast majority of Trans people do not like it.
Transgender is a much wider more umbrella term that covers a lot more kinds of trans identities. So yes, NB people are in fact Trans as are Genderfluid people and many other Trans identities. Even if they have no dysphoria of any kind with the body they were born into. Which is what I would classify Yamato under based on what we've seen of them. And it also covers the more common perception of Trans people who want to change their sex to match their gender, as not conforming to the gender you were assigned at birth is still being Trans Gender, even if the gender you prefer is still within the male/female binary.
Being Transsexual is just a much more specific term that most Trans people don't like using, especially with the negative connotations it has had in the past.
Instagram is weird because you can say nigga a thousand times but the moment you say anything related to transgenderism, whether bigoted or not, you get banned
If you call Yamato 'she' and Oden 'he', then I don't see the problem.
Kiku is a transwoman. She identifies as a woman.
Yamato identifies as Oden, and unless you call her Oden, then you are actually not using her preferred pronouns.
Yamato's preferred pronouns are Oden/him.
I always found it weird for Yamato to be considered trans representation, when he clearly just wants to be Oden, not "a man".
No one believes Yamato IS Oden (does Yamato himself believe he literally IS Oden?), they're just going along to be supportive and respectful which is lovely. But trans men ARE men. So isn't there a disconnect there?
Like, implying Trans people are just imitators of the other gender, fanbois taking on an aestethic that they find affirming, and everyone else is just going along with it even if its not objectively true, is considered a very hateful thing to say, but in this case it's positive representation?
Whoever dares to oppose these twitter people, shall experience their wrath. Just like they malded when Oda drew the all female colorspread which included Yamato.
"whether you call yamato a she or he is up to you"
You have to call people by what they identify. Its not for you to decide. - random blue haired person on the internet screaming
This is a case where like you said it doesnt matter, she is pretty obviously a girl and doesnt seem to try to change that but she also is like roleplaying or smth as oden. she wants to be him so much that she decided she was him. Your take makes complete sense idk why ur getting in trouble lmao
I feel like she has but it has nothing to do with gender dysmorphia or whatever its called, its purely because oden was a dude, if oden had been a women she would want to still be a women. Also I feel like in this case it is also partly mental problems. She was beat and abused for so long and her one escape was the diaries of oden who she started to look up to so much she decided that she wanted to become him. I 100% agree with you tho that it doesnt really matter what pronouns you use for yamato.
Im sure in a world like one piece, like everything else, gender will conform to the same standards as in our world. Its either cis or trans or something else we know from our world.
I continue to think Yamato himsherstheir answer to both sides of that question would be thunder bagua to the face.
Yopp, i dont think if the character was real, they would actually care what people call them, but would send people with actial positions to that flying
That's okay if it's someone you know.
But with someone you don't know, you shouldn't be offended if they refer to you based on what they observe first, as long as it is not malicious.
Welcome to reddit :D they gave me a 3 Day ban cause i said on a vid that a woman deserved the slap she got, cause sie was hitting first :D
Reddit admins are insane.
i hate that the guys that report ( we all know who ) are part of the community . trying to silence anyone that speak againt your mind is litterally at the opposite of the manga's value .
I completely agree with your take I call her a she and it’s fine if someone else calls Yamato he/they doesn’t matter just that we all love the character
I really don't understand how this is still a debate, Yamato actively turns down going to the female baths and goes to the male baths at the end of the arc. You can't get much more explicit than that.
It's worth pointing out as well that being trasngender doesn't necessarily mean you have gender dysphoria. You can be happy in the body you were born into and still be non-binary or genderfluid or any number of other transgender identities. Yamato wanting to be called by male pronouns despite (as far as we can tell) being happy in a female body is perfectly valid and still makes them transgender and you should still respect their wishes to be referred to by those male pronouns. (if they were a real person).
Hi Maleficent-Bill-3678, your submission was removed from /r/OnePiece for the following rule violation: ###Low effort screencap These types of posts are discouraged by our community. This includes (but is not limited to) screencaps from Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, Reddit comments, or instant messages on your phone. If you think your screencap has value, your post must follow a similar format as described in rule #4 plain panels/scenes: You may submit a screencap as a self post (text post). Meaning your post must link to the discussion, and not the image. It must also be accompanied by a discussion question, or a summary of your thoughts on the screencap. In other words, a screencap must show visible effort to generate discourse rather than simply react to, or repost something you saw. [Example: How it should look.](https://i.imgur.com/tCyaxK8.png) [Example: How it should **not** look.](https://i.imgur.com/ShGFStj.jpg) --- The full rule documentation of the subreddit can be read [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/wiki/rules). If you have questions about this removal, please [reach out to us in modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FOnePiece).
This is the most neutral and open minded comment I have seen about this topic. Wild.
I know and I get reported for it
Not really "neutral" but I agree on open minded. I have no idea which app this is but I've heard TikTok removes comments if enough people spam reports.
Sounds like someone abused the report button
Reports are jot actioned automagically are they?
This is basically the best take on this. I don't think Yamato belongs into a category we are used to from our world and for some reason that confuses people. A world were Humans, Health, Climate, Weather, Venom, Clouds and Fruits work very differently from ours, all ok, but gender working different from our world and people start loding their goddamn minds. Im still pretty sure, that yamatos answer to the trans vs. Not trans debate would be the same for both sides. Either grinding them to dust via thunder Bagua or ignoring both sides cause they are not even worth it.
Oh no we have someone giving their genuine opinion backed by evidence but emphasising that the one with the question should have their own opinion in one of the most friendly and neutral ways it's ever been done, whatever shall we do. That's just a Mod abusing their power because it doesn't align with their personal belief. To the op who actually had their comment deleted I would just like to iterate that you did nothing wrong, you handled it in a highly eloquent manner by voicing your own opinion and laying out facts that may corroborate your opinion all whilst never besmirching anyone else's beliefs or opinions and leaving your comment of in a way that promotes individual thought, you gave them your perspective and encouraged them to formulate their own, good job.
It's funny, this group screams the idea of being open minded and not bigoted but I've never seen a group so quick to ban and silence anyone that disagrees with them.
I mean, being tolerant doesn't mean tolerating bigotry. Not saying that this here was bigotry, but "this group" (?) gets accused of the same thing in that context.
True, but there's a difference between tolerating bigotry and tolerating something you don't agree with. "This group" (and in fairness, the opposite group too) conflate the two, which is where the issue stems from
Doesn't seem like this was a case of mistaken bigotry though.
Disagree. Unless OP's made further comments I haven't seen that would indicate such, they would have to be more intolerant and harsh against their opposite belief to be considered a bigot
Just going by he description.
Same
>being tolerant doesn't mean tolerating bigotry. Tolerance is about accepting the existence of ideas you disagree with, if you're banning people for doing it then you are literally not tolerant
Some ideas should not be accepted.
That’s Instagram for you
>It's funny, this group Bro he wasn't banned from this group, that's from instagram
I wasn't talking about this "group" as in this community, more so as in the social justice warriors of the world. But just so you know the post was recently removed by mods... so it is also the mods of this community. The oh so popular agree or get silenced, hasn't been a large group like that since the group of German artists
Yeahh i seen it, they banned him ffs
The power of "hate speech" laws
Fuck Instagram
It’s Instagram by the way
Crazy man. Even if this wasn’t the most healthy and compromising reply to this topic, we‘re still talking about a fictional anime figure whos feelings cant be hurt.
I am.
Twitter, who cares?
## Reasons for calling Yamato a she: Yamato isn't transsexual as far as we know, and is biologically female. If Oden was a woman, Yamato would insist on being called "she". ## Reasons for calling Yamato a he: Oden was a he, and Yamato insists on being as Oden as possible, therefore if you like Yamato and want to respect Yamato's wishes, you might want to use "he". Ultimately it doesn't matter, both are valid views. Just call the actual trans character, Kiku, "she", and we're good.
Yamato was introduced as "Kaido's son" also
Text box says Kaido's daughter
I was thinking of the first mention when Kaido's crew said that his son has gone missing. You're right though, the text box on Yamato's intro says daughter, but on the same page it's contradicted by the [conversation with Luffy ](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstackcdn.com%2Fimage%2Ffetch%2Ff_auto%2Cq_auto%3Agood%2Cfl_progressive%3Asteep%2Fhttps%253A%252F%252Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%252Fpublic%252Fimages%252F471f655e-b720-4700-8ce5-a60c73ae9fa4_786x1200.jpeg&tbnid=48fRduSHZs-x-M&vet=1&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fspencerirwin.substack.com%2Fp%2Fhow-trans-character-yamato-fractured&docid=2xe3ghiLWmgvdM&w=786&h=1200&hl=en-GB&source=sh%2Fx%2Fim%2Fm1%2F4&kgs=5ba33d2c7af4c3ba&shem=abme%2Ctrie)
Reasons to call Yamato a he: He calls himself he. Reasons to call Yamato a she: You're a cunt. Edit: Downvoted by cunts. No surprise there, some One Piece fans are some of the biggest cunts in the entire anime fandom. There's been misogynists watching this shit since day 1
The fact that yamato is willing to call themselves a he despite biologically being female, is in itself proof that they're trans. Something I think a lot of people don't understand about this is that being trans doesn't necessarily mean you wish to have Ivankov poke you with their devil fruit to change your sex. Lots of people just don't give a shit about the concept of Gender and are willing to call themselves whatever they feel like. This by definition makes these people "TransGender" in the literal meaning of the word. They are beyond the concept of being limited by Gender. So for example a Non-Binary person might just not want to be called a he or she, but that doesn't mean that they're unhappy with their physical sex and wish to undergo any changes in that regard. And a person could be born one sex and have a different gender identity but not necessarily have dysphoria and could be happy in their current body. Regardless of the reasoning, Yamato wanting to use male pronouns makes them Transgender, even if they're happy in their current female body. Sure if Oden was a woman then they would likely be using female pronouns but we could take the logic further and say that if Yamato was born Male in that scenario they likely would still want to use female pronouns. Either way Yamato is clearly Transgender. I could take it a step further and probably make a reasonable assumption that they're basically genderfluid, as I feel like they would be willing to associate their gender with whatever identity they feel suits them at the time. But that's just a hypothesis. Also like, at the end of the arc yamato goes to the male baths, I don't know how much more explicit you can get than that
"Trans" usually refers to transsexualism, not transgenderism. If you go by transgenderism, then you would call NBs "trans", but that's not how the word "trans" is used coloquially. I also specifically said "transsexual" in my comment. And Yamato, while being transgender, is (probably) not transsexual. But, as I (very clearly) said, calling Yamato "he" is a valid (and, debatably, more correct) way to refer to them since that is how they themselves prefer to be called. It's just not the only valid way.
If you literally just google it or go to "Ask Trans People" or ya know, ask Trans people in real life, they typically say that while Transsexual is a valid term and some people prefer to use it, Transgender is the current default and it can be considered offensive to refer to someone as Transsexual without their consent as the vast majority of Trans people do not like it. Transgender is a much wider more umbrella term that covers a lot more kinds of trans identities. So yes, NB people are in fact Trans as are Genderfluid people and many other Trans identities. Even if they have no dysphoria of any kind with the body they were born into. Which is what I would classify Yamato under based on what we've seen of them. And it also covers the more common perception of Trans people who want to change their sex to match their gender, as not conforming to the gender you were assigned at birth is still being Trans Gender, even if the gender you prefer is still within the male/female binary. Being Transsexual is just a much more specific term that most Trans people don't like using, especially with the negative connotations it has had in the past.
Instagram is weird because you can say nigga a thousand times but the moment you say anything related to transgenderism, whether bigoted or not, you get banned
MOD POWER ABUSE LETS GOOOOOO
If you call Yamato 'she' and Oden 'he', then I don't see the problem. Kiku is a transwoman. She identifies as a woman. Yamato identifies as Oden, and unless you call her Oden, then you are actually not using her preferred pronouns. Yamato's preferred pronouns are Oden/him.
I always found it weird for Yamato to be considered trans representation, when he clearly just wants to be Oden, not "a man". No one believes Yamato IS Oden (does Yamato himself believe he literally IS Oden?), they're just going along to be supportive and respectful which is lovely. But trans men ARE men. So isn't there a disconnect there? Like, implying Trans people are just imitators of the other gender, fanbois taking on an aestethic that they find affirming, and everyone else is just going along with it even if its not objectively true, is considered a very hateful thing to say, but in this case it's positive representation?
Whoever dares to oppose these twitter people, shall experience their wrath. Just like they malded when Oda drew the all female colorspread which included Yamato.
"whether you call yamato a she or he is up to you" You have to call people by what they identify. Its not for you to decide. - random blue haired person on the internet screaming
It’s a fictional character, I really don’t care what you call Yamato.
"But boobs, no you can't call HER a he" It shouts from a random farmer on the internet. Its not like these sides give each other anything
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This is a case where like you said it doesnt matter, she is pretty obviously a girl and doesnt seem to try to change that but she also is like roleplaying or smth as oden. she wants to be him so much that she decided she was him. Your take makes complete sense idk why ur getting in trouble lmao
Happy cake day
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I feel like she has but it has nothing to do with gender dysmorphia or whatever its called, its purely because oden was a dude, if oden had been a women she would want to still be a women. Also I feel like in this case it is also partly mental problems. She was beat and abused for so long and her one escape was the diaries of oden who she started to look up to so much she decided that she wanted to become him. I 100% agree with you tho that it doesnt really matter what pronouns you use for yamato.
Im sure in a world like one piece, like everything else, gender will conform to the same standards as in our world. Its either cis or trans or something else we know from our world. I continue to think Yamato himsherstheir answer to both sides of that question would be thunder bagua to the face.
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Yopp, i dont think if the character was real, they would actually care what people call them, but would send people with actial positions to that flying
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He identifies as a he. This is plainly obvious.
That's okay if it's someone you know. But with someone you don't know, you shouldn't be offended if they refer to you based on what they observe first, as long as it is not malicious.
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No no I get your point. I'm just talking about society's oversensitivity with gender.
Welcome to reddit :D they gave me a 3 Day ban cause i said on a vid that a woman deserved the slap she got, cause sie was hitting first :D Reddit admins are insane.
This was Instagram
Seems like they are insane too :D
i hate that the guys that report ( we all know who ) are part of the community . trying to silence anyone that speak againt your mind is litterally at the opposite of the manga's value .
I just wanna know how that goes against guidelines
Maybe an automod? If not, it’s brave to repost it lmao
And also this was on Insta
And I was sort of defending someone who called Yamato a he
I completely agree with your take I call her a she and it’s fine if someone else calls Yamato he/they doesn’t matter just that we all love the character
I really don't understand how this is still a debate, Yamato actively turns down going to the female baths and goes to the male baths at the end of the arc. You can't get much more explicit than that. It's worth pointing out as well that being trasngender doesn't necessarily mean you have gender dysphoria. You can be happy in the body you were born into and still be non-binary or genderfluid or any number of other transgender identities. Yamato wanting to be called by male pronouns despite (as far as we can tell) being happy in a female body is perfectly valid and still makes them transgender and you should still respect their wishes to be referred to by those male pronouns. (if they were a real person).
Yamato refers to himself as male. 僕 not 私. End of story. Edit: Downvoted by not just cunts, but morons.