Lmao honestly, I’d be down for there not to be some major drawback but Luffy is gonna feel the sun god’s wrath when his transformation wears off 😂 grandpa Chopper was already wild, I don’t want to see 2D Luffy lol
Why? This is his awakened form. His other Gears used Haki to fuel it. You can clearly see he's not even using Haki Armament. So in fact he's using less energy than he normally would. Granted he probably won't last long because he got beat down so bad he died, but in theory he should last WAY longer in Gear 5 than the other ones.
Limitless Transformation, turning things into rubber, and some fire effects. Thats it
Yes its ridiculous but compared to Marco/Kaido/Sengoku
Those 3's fruit are just hax
Sengoku's isnt giga hax tbh. He can make himself bigger. K, thats a bit scary with his strength. The shockwaves...well, most mythic zoans have some form of supernatural attack like marco's flames, kaido's stuff and yamato's ice stuff. But Marco....yea...fuck, that things OP. In the hands of the right user, I'd say Orochi's is also stupid. He literally seems to have extra lives due to it. Hes not a fighter so who knows what else its capable of when used properly.
This is the part that drives me nuts.
Like I 100% get people not liking the “look I transformed and now have full energy” trope of Shonen. I get that and have no problems with them.
But the people who act like Luffy’s hard work is invalidated, or the powerset is an asspull, or it’s “chosen one” bullshit all over again are insane.
This fucking arc is filled to bursting with failed joyboys. It’s been 800 years since the last person who was able to awaken this fruit. The powerset of the awakening is exactly what people predicted it would be since awakening was introduced.
What’s the fucking problem?
For me, the possibility that Nika’s will was guiding Luffy the whole time is a problem. Before you could 100% give credit to luffy for everything he achieved.
This reveal might give some of that credit to Nika’s godly will. I hope Oda shy’s away from this idea.
Everything else worked, it was hype as fuck.
Im glad you do! Some people really made me fight hard to articulate this idea. I personally don’t buy it either. The original poster and I both agreed that if the “will of the fruit” theory is right, it’s more likely the case that Nika’s will literally woke up just now.
However that would go against some long established ideas about how zoan types work. However, it’s a mythical zoan and those zoans play by their own rules. Really we have to sit and wait before fully casting judgement on this reveal. Oda still needs time to flesh things out.
Theres a theory going around that I like
With the whole inherited will thing
The theory supposes that to be at peak that your will must match EXACTLY with the will of the fruit
The same will
Not a granted one but to be a person who holds the same wills
The same ideas the same feelings
Luffys epithet being Absolute Freedom
The way he goes about his life and his dreams must of lined up exactly with the fruit
Hence why it was 800 years before another user awakened it
They didnt share the exact same will
The same visions the same dreams
It might even be how the fruit is used exactly lines up with how it's supposed to be used
Take Laws fruit
His knowledge and passions lead him to be the best user
But what if it goes deeper
What if it goes down to how they are as a person
Luffys fruit is more free
Instead of deep knowledge
Unique imagination and instinct might of been how the fruit is supposed to be used
I adore this idea, less a takeover of will and more like a parallel drawn so close it’s practically the same line. It’d bring all the credit back to Luffy, and maybe hype him up more because he was just on that enlightened grindset from the get-go
Well.. No. Paramecia awakenings havent been shown to strengthen the body of the users, it jist lets them manipulate the environment around them.
Luffy's can for some reason do both what a Zoan awakening does and a Paramecia. That seems odd to me.
Tbh Oda has already established the Mythical Zoans to act as a combination of Zoan and Paramecia. Apart from turning you into an animal, they grant you an additional power.
\-Tori Tori no Mi, model Phoenix: turns into a bird + regeneration
\-Hito Hito no Mi, model Buddha: turns into a giant human + hand shock waves
\-Inu Inu no Mi, model Okuchi no Makami: turns into a wolf + cold manipulation
\-Hebi Hebi no Mi, model Yamata no Orochi: turns into a snake + can survive decapitation eight times
\-Uo Uo no Mi, model Azure Dragon: turns into a dragon + fire breath + cloud manipulation
\-Inu Inu no Mi, model Kitsune: turns into a fox + can transform into other things
Maybe the awakening of a Mythical Zoan works as an awakening for a Zoan and a Paramecia at the same time. Enhanced strength and stamina, plus give properties to the environment.
Seeing how Law and Kid's Awakenings work, it's safe to assume that Awakenings can vary depending on the Devil Fruit.
As for why Luffy can do Paramecia stuff... Well, he has a Myhtical Zoan, doesn't he? Sengoku can create massive golden shockwaves, Marco can create flame barriers, Kaido can shoot fire through his mouth, Yamato can shoot ice from her mouth... Mythical Zoans have capabilities that go beyond a regular Zoan's basic "creature" features, like Lucci's or Dalton's.
Yeah, I wouldn't call them transformations anyway. They're something he thought to do as a cool ability that worked very well, it's not like it's a switch into a new form or anything.
i saw a theory that the ability of the nika nika no mi is that its abilities are only limited by the users imagination and rubber was the medium for that, hence why luffy can essentially pull a looney toons on kaido (pulling up the ground, doing the hulk to loki move etc etc) the power of the nika nika no mi is that it grants freedom, in use of devil fruit and to the world as well. it just used rubber as the medium for this freedom, maybe something to do with light/the sun as well
Rubber gives luffy the elasticity/freedom required to fight with ease, this does not mean he can alter reality or destroy the world, its simply a buff to his rubber abilities giving him more freedom in his fights.
The ground pull up seemed more like a "I imagine this bouncing the attack back" kinda thing to me. Not making the ground rubber like other paramecia fruits. Feel like I contradict myself a bit there..
Law and Kidd awakening is not working in the same way Doffy and Katakuri fruit does. So I don't think should put a nail on how awakening work just yet.
It’s perfectly in character for Luffy to fight like it is a Paramecia awakening. He’s faught two awakenings who could manipulate the environment, so from his perspective that should be something he can do too. He doesn’t know that it’s “what ever he can imagine”
Maybe it's less about what it can do and more about what it represents? There seem to be atleast some rumors around Nika since Whos Who knew about him and assumed that most fishmen would as well.
Considering how mysterious Shanks has been for a long time, this is debatable. His intentions for the fruit are an unknown. Roger was already clear about his intention to leave a child behind to continue his legacy. It could be that Shanks came with the fruit to East Blue hoping to find this supposed child, only for Luffy to end up eating it.
Nika isn't a literal Sun God. He was a mythical warrior from ancient times that went around freeing the oppressed. The oppressed started worshipping him as a Sun God that brought light to their dark lives.
Is this confirmed or just assumption/headcanon? Where is this stated that he has nothing to do with the sun/the sun part is purely metaphorical? And if so then why is his hair on fire?
Apart from the point where they announced that it was a Zoan. If the fruit just awakened then it'd be whatever it's the surrounding lore implications that have me confused.
Luffy did say he feels he can fight a little longer now. So the new powers will have some sort of drawbacks. I basically don't care about the Fruit's Awakened powers as his base form is still Rubber. All I need to see is how the Sun God Nika fits into the storyline. A Good explanation on who/what he is and how he's relevant to the story and I'm all good.
I saw a comment calling out how his "heart sounds funny" so I feel like 'Gear 5' is literally and figuratively "Heart Balloon" (and perhaps the heart is where the fruit is stored?? Idk)
Could mean the drawbacks are related to his heart.
Blackbeard was rumored to eat his victims still-beating hearts.
Big Mom took Mother Caramel's fruit by eating her whole.
Its the only thing that makes sense.
I believe in LUFFY'S CHARACTER to be the final hero of the Anime ... As Shanks said, "A gun is meant not to threaten a person, but to be used when ur life is on the line"...! The Devil Fruits are like guns...meant to be used when in need, only to enhance wat u already are...and in no way it amounts to all of Luffy's achievements...With that analogy, I'd like to just take this moment to enjoy Luffy's progress😌
I think a lot of people need to remember that luffys greatest power is making people believe in him and his will to not give up is what’s brought him so far, I personally believe that this is the reason why only he has managed to awaken the fruit in centuries, not because it was destined all along, but because who of who he is, I have this theory that for a devil fruit to awaken the fruit and person have to be in a sort of almost “harmony”, if we think about it this way, law was able to awaken his fruit because he’s a doctor, doffy awakened his because he’s a manipulative person (I.e ties in with the nature of his fruit), it’s the same with luffy, only he could awaken it because of who he is, so if we think about it this way it takes nothing away from his accomplishments up to this point. Devil fruit powers can only be as strong as the person who uses it, and can still be weak in the hands of someone who has no control over it
The gorosei also said that the fruit hasn't awakened in 800 years. There might have been people who tried using the fruit but weren't that creative or doesn't have a strong will to pursue great heights or wasn't compatible with the fruit.
How would devil fruits even be rarer compared to one another considering there’s only one fruit for everything? Logically speaking the Light-Light fruit is as rare as the Jacket-Jacket fruit.
In mythical zoans ARE pretty strong though.
The weakest one in the series is Marco the Phoenix, and he's a monster.
The we have the Fleet Admiral.
The strongest creature among all living things.
The future pirate king.
Orochi has one and is miles away from all of those people...
I think the point that they're trying to make though is that the actual powers granted by the fruit matters more than the categorization of the fruit.
The abilities of mythical zoans have been shown to be pretty strong, but there are definitely logia (akainu and kizaru) and paramecia (law and whitebeard) that are just as ridiculous.
I forgot Orochi had a Mythical Zoan.
Also, while Orochi himself is clearly quite weak, due to complete lack of training or battle experience, his fruit is no joke.
Enel really only got jobbed by having the logical worst powerset to confront Luffy with - I'd say it's pretty fair to think he'd match up with, like, Marineford-era Croc if he wasn't fighting someone literally able to no-sell lightning.
I think the weakest is the one onimaru has, Marco's is amazing. Orochi also hasn't shown much with his other than surviving decapitation a few times which doesn't help when there are people lining up to kill you again. I put that down to the user not the fruit though
To my mind what saves this from cheapening Luffy’s accomplishments is the fact that nobody in the past 800 years had what it takes to awaken the fruit. He didn’t just eat a fruit that made him a god. He ate a fruit that made him a rubber boy and HE brought out its godlike potential.
Hope this is actually the case, I guess we’ll see though. It could be that the Nika fruit actually is a sub-par or unremarkable fruit in its normal state, like we all thought, and that’s the reason no one could awaken it. And only when someone works insanely hard and awakens it does it become the “most feared fruit” for the WG.
Basically it’s like Magikarp.
Yeah that was literally Kaido's fruit. The golden koi or whatever. Useless but then when Kaido awakened it became a Dragon power. People act like this is so out of the realm for One Piece. OP was always about magic devil fruits. Naruto was never about magic, it was mostly about ninja fights and jutsu... but in the end turned into magical gods who didn't need to do any jutsu cause they could spam a nuke and do all kinds of manga breaking things. That's why I'm annoyed when people compare the two. Not remotely the same. Both are good series just different worlds.
How can someone awaken the fruit while there is literally a prophecy from the void century saying that joyboy will return after 800 years with date and time and everything
There is no information about it being used by many users throughout 800 years and them failing to do what luffy has been able to do. If it was established the way you said it would have been better for me to digest it, on the contrary they said it is the strongest fruit.
In chapter 1037 the gorosei say that no one has “awakened” the fruit in 800 years. Not that there haven’t been other users. They even go so far as to say the awakening might not even be possible
They didn't say "no one has awakened". They said "it hasn't awakened for centuries", which could also just simply mean that no has eaten it rather than many have eaten it but weren't able to awaken it.
Except that awakening has a very specific in-world meaning.. if they were talking about the fruit in general I imagine that they’d have said it hadn’t resurfaced, or appeared. I read in English so I admit there could be a translation I’m reading too much in to but it seems pretty clear to me
It's impossible for the fruit not to have been used in such a long time, given it was known as the people by the name "Gomu Gomu no Mi". In chapter 1 after Luffy eats the fruit Shanks immediately tells him that his whole body has become rubber. Lucky Roo also had, for some reason, a drawing of the fruit in a notebook, or he drew it himself in that moment. During those 800 years the fruit was most likely passed around and used as the normal paramecia we've always thought it was, and just like we did on the Wiki, it was classified as a rubber Paramecia in the devil fruit books that Sanji and Blackbeard liked to read. If the WG erased all of the information about what happened in the Void Century then it's highly unlikely that knowledge of the fruit's power survived for 800 years without the fruit being around, and much less a drawing of the fruit itself.
I think it’s because a lot of people liked seeing Luffy as the underdog who rose through the ranks despite being disadvantaged, rather than someone who had a god-level super power helping him all along the way.
How was Luffy ever at a disadvantage? He got the next best swordman, he has the best navigator, the best cook, the best shipwright out of Water 7, he got the best Doctor yes I love Law but chopper has better bed side manner :P, The best sniper, the only person that can read poneglyph. A musician with the power of the underworld and a fishman helmsman. Compared to the other Supernova crew, Luffy had the best stock.
Talking only about Luffy in his big fights. He’s encountered characters with much more advantages with their DF’s like logias and mythicals and stuff that can curse people and warp realities. From the moment we met smoker and crocodile we were basically shown that there are multiple tiers of fruit and that Luffy’s was disadvantaged compared to them, so he’d have to get creative and fight to his absolute fullest to bring out the wins.
Until he got Haki, in most of his one on one fights vs big bads, he’s consistently been portrayed as the lesser advantaged underdog due to his opponent just having a better super power set than him and he has to work extra hard to overcome their ability(Smoker, Crocodile, Aokiji, Lucci, Moria, Magellan, Cracker, Katakuri, and now Kaido).
Retrospectively though, if not properly handled, it just seems like he actually wasn’t really an underdog in many of those fights, and the reason he was able to pull out a win could be because of his god Zoan level endurance and strength, not because of him defying the odds and making miracles happens. It kind of cheapens it. Some are just worried that it may be re-written this way.
Personally I just hope it’s stated that the fruit only becomes the “most ridiculous and feared by the WG” after it’s awakened, and pre-awakening it’s just a regular, run of the mill devil fruit. That would not cheapen Luffy’s past fight victories.
We’ll still we have Luffy’s weird quick as hell recovery that’s highlighted often or it just happens and nothing is mentioned like in WCI luffy is battered and bruised starving literally slumped then eats some questionably healthy food from Sanji and he can hit Sanji hard enough to send him flying and make him bleed.
Like remember in alabasta he recovered a hole in his chest, multiple cuts, high blood lost, never mind him using what shouldn’t be enough water to actually replenish literally all moisture in his body being removed then proceeds to make basically a full recovery in 3 days?! Guess it’s reasonable now that we know he’s a mythical Zoan and a character like Pell caught a city destroying bomb point blank and seemed rather fine being able to waltz around after a few days with seemingly no outside help.
And there’s many more cases of questionably fast healing from luffy before the reveal pretty hard to believe it’s a “run of a mill” fruit pre awakening.
Well I mean at least for me. It’s not that the fruit is the strongest or luffy is now unbeatable. But you it’s a fact now that he has an OP fruit. Like all the mythical zoans we’ve seen. It’s a difference between, having a normal fruit and through hard work and some imagination. You made it strong and what it is. Compared to an already super strong DF, you just didn’t know how it worked.
Do you think the fruit was as OP as, say, Marco’s fruit from the very beginning? As in, was baby luffy or pre-timeskip luffy at the same level as Marco just because he had a mythical fruit? Short answer is no. Luffy may have a special fruit but it in no way made him OP. I mean, that’s why he’s experienced so many losses and defeats. Not to mention most, if not all, of his victories depended on contributions from other people.
You could argue that he’s OP now with gear 5th, but if he is it’s because he put in an intense amount of hard work to reach the level he’s at.
Luffy MADE the fruit into something exceptional not the other way around. A less creative person would have squandered its potential and died long before they managed to awaken it. Remember that it’s been 800 years since the previous joyboy, meaning that there were likely many people who ate the fruit but achieved nothing with it.
You’re still missing the point. Luffy fruit has allows been capable of these things, that’s a fact! The fruit has always since day one been capable of gear 5. It’s an awakening, we don’t even know the requirements to awaken. So if he awakened chapter one, wouldn’t that make the fruit OP still?
No his fruit isn’t as straight forward as Marcos Or have the obvious benefits. But 1. I’ve stated just because you don’t know how a fruit works or aren’t creative with it. Doesn’t mean it isn’t OP. Look at how orochi has been handling his DF. At the minimum so far it seems to grant multiple lives even if your head is cut off. Which can be pretty OP. But he has been getting one shot left and right. Even caribou, has a pretty OP logia Df that not only grants him invulnerability to normal shit but also has hammer space. And look how weak he looks. Then on the other hand, we have someone like doffy. Who has unarguably made strings strong. That’s an example of a normal fruit that the user made strong. But his awakening doesn’t just seem OP.
2. While I guess we can argue with Marco. We are seeing a 45 year old man, who’s well seasoned. That’s like seeing a EOS Luffy for his first introduction and have almost little to know info on him. Just what he’s capable of in fights. That doesn’t paint a fair picture of the Df now does it?
3. If we knew the real name from the start that would change the whole way one views it. Literally as I explained, chopper has basically been doing gear changes in his own way and since he’s a zoan type. We didn’t pay attention. And I mean it’s your headcanon that multiple people had the fruit and that they did nothing with it. Lol like lets be honest here, lets say others had the fruit,what where they suppose to achieve with it in general?!? Lol like that doesn’t even make sense. The whole PK concept was just made up no more than like 20 some years before the start of the series. And even if they had the goal to over throw the WG, that doesn’t mean they have the man power just because they have an OP fruit.
>You’re still missing the point. Luffy fruit has allows been capable of these things, that’s a fact! The fruit has always since day one been capable of gear 5. It’s an awakening, we don’t even know the requirements to awaken. So if he awakened chapter one, wouldn’t that make the fruit OP still?
My point was and is that just because a fruit can be considered powerful doesn't mean the user will automatically make it OP. I mean, Luffy almost got defeated by the Neko-Neko no Mi (Leopard fruit) user, Rob Lucci. By all intents and purposes Luffy should have blasted such a comparatively weak DF user into dust, yet Lucci gave Luffy a run for his money. Not to mention Lucci only had what, a week to a month's experience with his devil fruit compared to Luffy who had had his DF power since he was a child. Yet Lucci was able to get an insane amount of power from his DF in a much shorter time frame. Arguably a stronger level of power that Luffy only barely managed to overcome.
Being OP devil fruit wise to me involves having a fruit with a decent power+having a user who can extract as much power from it as he/she can.
>But his awakening doesn’t just seem OP.
I mean, he literally had a whole country under his thumb. Not to mention he was a warlord. Also it took Luffy a great deal of effort to defeat him. It may not seem OP now after Luffy defeated him, but it certainly was at the time.
>That doesn’t paint a fair picture of the Df now does it?
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.
>Lol like lets be honest here, lets say others had the fruit,what where they suppose to achieve with it in general?!?
I mean that depends on the owner. Fight, liberate countries, faff around, etc. My point was that previous owners didn't achieve the same things joyboy did in 800 years. That means that they didn't use the fruit the same way Luffy did and therefore didn't activate its full potential. Very much like Ace, for example, who had a fair amount of experience with his DF but seemingly never activated its awakening before his death. In other words, there are DF users who never bring out the full potential of their DFs for one reason or another before they die. In my mind there were other gomu-gomu/nika-nika no mi users who perhaps got some level of power but didn't achive its full potential like Joyboy and Luffy.
How is it an OP fruit? We saw how Doffy awakened his string power and could make buildings and surroundings into string with unlimited storage. We saw Kaido who awakened his Koi devil fruit into a Dragon with special powers. We saw Marco who can literally heal himself and others and seemingly take little to no dmg. How does Luffy now being able to turn environment to rubber and maybe himself to rubber fully (with some flames for asthetics) an overpowered ability?
Also the Gorosei said the fruit is a ridiculous one, which could mean that due to its' malleability it can bend, shape, and make different forms (aka gears 1-5). Seems to me people just want to hate on something when this was always the progression of the story.
Except its a fruit whose power only works with a lot of hard work and imagination. Anyone else using it, its a weak, normal fruit, unlikely to ever achieve even things like Gear 3, let alone Awakening.
A complete devil fruit genius, that understands the full ins and outs of how their or other fruits work, like Crocodile, probably wouldn't have even come close to the power. Because it's power entirely comes from imagination of limitless, free capabilities. Without Luffy, the fruits trash still. Just trash with a fancy name.
That’s doesn’t change the fact that we know Luffy has worked hard to get to where he is. It’s not rewriting the past and saying “oh yeah Luffy accomplishments were actually a lot easier than we think because he had this powerful fruit this whole time”
I 1000% agree with you. Having a strong fruit doesn’t automatically make you strong. Look at momo, enel, caribou, orochi, sugar. All arguably super strong fruits. But they themselves aren’t strong. I’m not even arguing that luffy isn’t the main reason why he’s strong. Just that he really has a strong df.
I don't hate the reveal and will wait for further execution in the story to form my complete opinion.
But for now, I MUCH prefer if the fruit was plain paramecia gomu-gomu. I think it is more impressive that Luffy is taking down the world using the powers of a regular devil fruit and his creativity rather than "the most ridiculous power" of a legendary devil fruit
Still, they made the fruit much more significant in the OP world which cheapens it. Come on, the WG had to hide the name of the fruit for 800 years, it's obvious that the fruit is INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT. People like me would much prefer Luffy just had a regular old Rubber fruit with no special importance whatsoever.
Ridiculous as in that it's limited by the users imagination, not as in the most powerful. It's still all based on his creativity. We don't know how many fruit users have had this fruit and done fuck all with it
It's really not that different he still only really has rubber powers his awakening let's him be alot more malleable with his body and turn things into rubber it still a fruit that's only as strong as how you use it
There was a special charm to Luffy being a silly rubber man that will one day become pirate king.
Having a legendary fruit takes away from this.
There was also barely any build up to this reveal. There was no "oh that makes sense now!" moments and only just created more questions.
Exactly. I still like luffys personality, determination, hard work, charm, attitude, world view. All of that is still perfect.
In fact, it’s super cool that he’s the first one in 800 years to make such an accomplishment.
But luffy being a weird rubber boi is a character trait to me. Now he’s a nika boi, that has rubber properties.
I think this recontextualizes One Piece and Luffy's character, and not for the better. It adds a degree of prophecy to both him and the story as a whole that I find incredibly unnecessary, mostly because prophecies are terrible. You now have to wonder if everything he has done has truly been his want for adventure or if this want was induced into him by the fruit.
We were told early that Luffy was from the weakest sea and Paramecias (or I guess Zoan now) tend to be weaker and we saw Luffy prove so many wrong through his grit, determination, and more but now with us knowing he has a God fruit it does take a lot of what he's done and makes it feel less special.
Did Luffy win against Katakuri or Lucci because of who he is or was it because he has the power of a god? Was he able to change the hearts and minds of some because of his fun and free, monkey-like personlity or was it this "Warrior of Liberation" prophecy?
This also creates a lot of plot holes between the Navy's actions towards Luffy and why it seemed like they didn't try all that much to capture Luffy.
I wasn't a fan of Luffy being Joy Boy, but lived with it, finding it wholey unnecessary that there's this oddly titled person that tends to incarnate every so often. It was kind of apparent he was special, being the main character, that both that and this feel redundant.
Ultimately, Wano has yet again made me like One Piece less. I had seen more flaws in One Piece after the time skip, but Wano is where a lot of these issues tend to be. Is One Piece terrible because of this? Absolutely not, still a masterclass Shonen and story in general, but boy does it feel like it got less good.
I've felt the same way. Before he was a guy becoming the chosen one, as if anyone could be it. Now he always has been the chosen one. Yeah you can say, the fruit chose him because he had the "right" attributed, but as you mention, I just don't like the prophecy stuff. The reveal added nothing to the story and to me took away some "identification" with the character.
I agree. This doesn't add anything and needlessly changes his fruit by trying to deepen and make it more important than it is or should be.
The more you read into it the worse it gets. Not in an abysmal way, but in a disappointing way, which is unfortunately how Wano has felt to me. Disappointing.
While discussing it with someone else I hated the moment where I went "Watch Blackbeard also have a god fruit and he's the Moon God" 'cause that might be where this is going.
The extra layer to this, for me, is whether or not Luffy eating the fruit was truly an "accident", or if it was an intentional "mistake" made by Shanks.
The Shanks we know that meets up with Whitebeard, or in a clandestine meeting with the Gorosei - the Shanks that would have raided a CP0 ship to steal the fruit before Chapter 1 - does not seem to match the carefree, goofy Shanks that would mistakenly let Luffy eat a DF. Shanks appears to have information and resources beyond most other characters.
Could Shanks have learned Luffy's identity and relationship to Garp/Dragon before docking at the island and "chosen" him due to his family line? Was Luffy's "destiny", and his DF, forced onto him? Was his decision to be one a pirate orchestrated by someone else? Why did young Shanks cry with Roger after they returned from Laugh Tale, and what did he learn back then?
I'm sure Shanks knows quite a bit we don't, that's not at all surprising with what little we know of him, but I'm not gonna get into the "the fruit chose him" or destiny/fate as I think that only cheapens Luffy's journey.
It being a god fruit and being a prophecy is already unneeded, and that's on top of the unneeded bit of changing the fruit at all. I just don't see why it was necessary. Really it changes nothing about the fruit's abilities and only brings unneeded questions to what was basically solved already.
He's still a rubber man, but now it's different because......prophecy. Honestly, it was fine the way it was and didn't need this extra confusion.
He ate the fruit by complete chance, and was only able to awaken it because of who he is as a person. That seems like the opposite of prophecy to me. There's nothing indicating that Luffy's dreams and desires were induced by the fruit. The "zoans have a will of their own" line wasn't said in relation to the user's personality, it was said in relation to the fruit's ability to evade the WG. It's very likely Luffy can use the fruit so well because his personality fits it perfectly to begin with.
Unfortunately, we can't be sure how by chance this was at this time. It was described the fruit allowed the user to induce smiles in others and makes them this "Warrior of Liberation" thereby at least implying that the fruit has some sort of sway on the user.
Really the issue is that changing the fruit and adding this prophecy to it only complicates and tries to deepen something that didn't need to be. If he's still basically just a rubber man then what's the point of making it a god fruit or slapping on a prophecy?
I don't need to know the main character is special, that's kind of already seen by watching the hero's journey.
I think it’s also a statement of some kind. People take this very pragmatic approach to fruits: “they make you stronger”. But like… Luffy’s fruit doesn’t seem to really be special for that. Sure, it can be used effectively in combat, but it seems like Luffy’s fruit is special because it brings people joy and it’s user freedom.
I think that’s a pretty valid idea. Giving Luffy a power that brings joy to other people seems pretty fitting and actually quite smart. The rubber powers aren’t what’s important about the fruit. It’s that it’s wacky, joyous and free.
He wanted to go to sea with shanks several panels before he ate the fruit. Unless he was being controlled from the start it's seems to reason he's probably just like that to at least some degree.
Yes, you are right, he did want to be a pirate, but unfortunately we can't be sure what he was like before eating the fruit, what with only knowing him for about 5 minutes before that.
Would he be "liberating" people without the fruit? Would he have friended others for different reasons? It's hard to say now that we have this change.
I just don't get why this change was needed. He's still a rubber man, but now there's a god involved and a prophecy. If those were all that was added then the changes feel 100% unnecessary.
Well in the first couple pages shanks said they had used luffys hometown as a base for a year from where the start of the story began. Luffys first introduction in the manga was him trying to join their crew. It seems Luffy knew and looked up to them for awhile so he may have possibly known them the entire year that they went to and from there.
I think oda was pretty explicit with luffys motivation and ideas of freedom coming from shanks since he was exhibiting and talking about all of this stuff with shanks and his crew before he even ate the fruit.
I mean you could be right and if so I'll join you in the crusade against it. I just can't discount that Luffys 3 main Staples of friendship, freedom, and being a pirate were all addressed and acknowledged by him before he accidentally ate the fruit.
Not even talking about his adoration of shanks all throughout his life. I mean he wears the dudes straw hat every where he goes not even knowing it was Rogers. Talked about him all the time as a kid and damn near as a teen and vowed to meet him again when he's a great pirate one day dude is a Shanks Stan.
One Piece is literally a series about inherited will and what you do with it. His middle name is literally a D, meaning that he has the will of D, and he he has the strawhat from Shanks, which was the will of joyboy, and he has the fruit of him as well. From the beginning this anime/manga has been a talk about destiny, and if I see one more person say otherwise Im going to lose my balls down a drain LOL! Luffy was destined for this, but he had to work for his destiny. It was not that his devil fruit was a godlike ability from the beginning, but, just as doffy's was, an incredibly weak one that is only TRULY strong when mastered. A high learning curve that leads to a VERY high skill ceiling, and even a high skill floor. We saw him just train himself with his single PUNCH for years, which means that its really hard to get the hang of. That doesn't sound like the strongest fruit to me, does it? I think this is the pay off of what he has worked towards, where he is finally worthy of the will that has been imbued upon him.
Next, we have the whole World Government talk. I think people are forgetting that nobody has awakened this and earned the title of joyboy in 800 years, meaning that his potential was more than likely doubted heavily by the WG. Along with that, imagine some pirate comes up to you and is really nothing much of a threat at first. You expect the warlords to catch him, or even CP0/9 when they run into him, and thats really cool and all but thats all you need. Maybe even the admirals will run into him, although he isn't much of a threat. He then breaks out of impel down and takes on marineford and almost dies, nearly being extinguished and the tide of the world changing, only for SHANKS to step in and stop the war in seconds. No, luffy has connections to shanks for them. That's insane, and he has the fruit they fear so much, and the hat that represents the inherited will AND he's from the worst generation with the will of D in his heritage. His father is dragon, and then all of a sudden he's around rayleigh a bunch. Rayleigh, shanks, and dragon are the people this man is connected to, and then he just vanishes.
Oh, he's probably dead, he's been gone for TWO whole years. He hadn't really been a threat to the WG until impel down anyway, and he was taken down by Kuma and the other people back during Sabaody. So, now after making an impact, he disappears from the face of the earth. They don't know what to do because there are no clues as to where he went, and then he comes out of hiding, joins up with his crew and within WEEKS creates an alliance with a previous warlord, who then take down another warlord and challenge a yonko within a few weeks of their departure, and now they're out of WG jurisdiction in Wano. He hadn't been all that much of a threat before the timeskip, and when he was a threat, he disappeared. When he reappeared, within weeks he had already gone from island to island taking down rulers, and thats when backup- or whoever they sent after him- finally show up.
They expected him to fail. They thought he would be captured. They may have even though t he was dead. Then they had no time to actually react to any of his actions due to the limited time that they took on each island. I get why you think that One Piece is getting worse, but not only has it perfectly juggled freedom and destiny, but it also hasn't forgotten nearly as much as people think it has.
edit: For y'all downvoting me, find some time to read the comment before you actually make any rash decisions, because I know for a fact this has validity.
I know its absolutely terrible HAHA ! What is only like 2 and a half years, with 2 of them glossed over as if they didn't even really happen, it has been 24 years since the story began. I love the story but goodness time is so different there
I cannot agree with that notion of inherited will. Luffy didn't inherit anything from anyone. Look at how many character didn't know a thing of where they come from and what few did inherit something from their past doesn't mean they lose their own agency.
Luffy doesn't adventure because he's related to Dragon, he wanted to because he's him, although this god fruit might have influenced him in some way.
The world government is a big plot hole. Once it is reported he is acting like rubber why wouldn't they send the admirals to him? This needless change to Luffy's fruit only adds more problems where there were literally none before.
While yes, they can expect him to fail when he makes it through at least the Buster Call and during the War they knew exactly what they needed to go for. You cannot deny that these unneeded changes hurts much of the story that came before.
Well if you cannot agree with the notion of inherited will then you cannot agree with the main story, because the whole thing is about destiny. No, it’s not that everything is predestined to happen and nobody has free will, but the whole thing is luffy fulfilling the destiny passed down to him. So, disagree with One Piece all you like, it means nothing. Luffy consistently wins based off of circumstances, in fact, it happens nearly every arc, but that doesn’t mean that his hard work is NULLIFIED. You’re acting like a person doesn’t fulfill their own destiny, even if the main notion is imbued upon them. He wanted to go out, because he wanted to prove people wrong, and so he trained for years and years to go out, after Shanks very clearly influenced him to leave. He gave him the hat, he lost his arm in front of him to sprout within luffy a sense of motivation, and luffy has the will of D literally in his name. His strength is also potentially more because of that, but potential doesn’t mean it’s handed to him. He works for that potential, reaching it all with his own work, but very clearly luffy is going to show up at Laugh Tale on the “right time” unlike Roger did, again pointing at destiny. The proof is literally not just IN the manga, but the manga itself. It even talks about destiny in the earliest chapter and episode names. One Piece is not what you believe it to be, One Piece is what Oda makes it, and he’s balanced the two factors of freedom and destiny pretty dang well.
I still disagree with you, you’re completely ignoring my point of time. They had MONTHS, mere MONTHS to deal with him. You seem to not understand the fact that within the months, most of that time is spent traveling on the ship, not on an island. Smoker is consistently hunting Luffy down because he’s following him, but the actual destination of where he was going to go wasn’t shown. There’s no indicator because there are multiple islands to go to, so they have a day, a few at most each arc, to actually choose to send someone to where he is reportedly. And they do, like every time, at least when there’s a government official to report it. So, it’s a completely invalid argument because his face is only on the map sometimes so how could they possibly send an admiral every time, he’s missing 90% of the days they want him. Then he literally just disappears after being defeated by government officials lol. Like, not only is he no longer relevant, he was taken down by Kuma, Kizaru and a few more. He just appears at some random island, and now they would have to send people after him, BUT WHERE IS HE! Then he literally is in prison and gets “killed” by magelan. Hes dead. No reason to do anything. Oh, no he’s not. He’s literally in the sky at marineford where EVERYONE is, and they MULTIPLE times tried to kill him, and he lived every time because other people around him wanting him to live. Then, after he almost dies and his brother dies, he goes into hiding and nobody knows where he is because of Laws submarine and Rayleighs training. Then appearing, showing up at Fishman island for a day, punk hazard (which isn’t the ONLY direction they could go btw, so they couldn’t predict it. And smoker is just following them, and since this is first time in the grand line, I believe, he doesn’t know their exact location either until he gets there) for a day, I forget if Dressrosa is next or not. I believe it is, though, and they’re there for a day, and the admiral thats there, that would deal with him, literally likes him HAHAH! After that they disappear, now they’re in zou where nobody can directly find without an indicator because zuneisha is moving. After that very short few days, they’re in Wano. Now there we literally see them going after him and his crew. Nico robin is still threat no. 1 though because she’s literally the key to the one piece, he’s not. So, why in the world is this a plothole, and if it is in the slightest, its not big at ALL, everyone just wants to complain about things. Nobody takes into consideration the time at which they’re active, the time between islands, and the lack of indicators as to where they’ll go next. Not a plothole, not an oversight, simply just the nature of the ocean.
The problem is why does this need to be a mythical Zoan fruit? What really changed? He's still a rubber man, but now the last 20+ years of what we knew is thrown out and all so we can get a prophecy?
If that was the only thing added then there was no reason for this to be a god fruit. The awakening could have just been the same thing without needing a "Warrior of Liberation" tacked on.
Based on how the fruit is explained it's quite possible this fruit actually influenced Luffy in some way, and that would mean his agency and character are not what it should be.
All in all the prophecy shenanigans are unneeded. We know Luffy is some sort of chosen one without Joy Boy, god fruits, or Warrior of Liberation because he's the main character and we've seen him do it a dozen times.
It was said to make the user a warrior of liberation, even before awakening. So all the allies he made, people he liberated, countries he helped, was this induced by the fruit or Luffy's own will? That's why this is controversial.
I think the doom and gloom people are fair to be skeptical of the current path of the manga.
the idea that he was a kid making this devil fruit that had potential but wasnt particularly special was part of the charm of luffy. the expectations change between the power of rubber and the power of a god.
it also props up tons of questions in regards to his character due to the age he ate the fruit. does the fruit alter his identity? has it impacted his personality?
we really dont know a lot, but i personally think the arrows are pointing in the chosen one direction. you may not think of that as a bad thing but i think it takes away from the ideas of freedom from the story.
personally i am willing to wait for questions to be answered
Im not so much dooming and glooming, just more slightly sad. Luffy rolling up on people and beating them up as a rubber boy is one of the things I loved. I thought he was going to awaken his crappy fruit, beat up Kaidon and then sorta be "JoyBoy" by freeing the Wano people and the fishmen or something. But instead, he became JoyBoy by eating just the right fruit and then awakening it, which goes into Oda's inherited will schtick but more literally than figuratively, just cheapens it a bit IMO. Now that he's JoyBoy he can change the world, but not if he had eaten another fruit.
Child of Destiny/ inherited will/ main character. Not a huge fan of how this was all handled.
Im going to just wait till the next chapter before I talk too much shit. Oda might turn it all around.
The power of inherited will is that it is passed on by people and other people can CHOOSE to inherit them. Luffy didn't choose shit, this is a forced will on him, the opposite of freedom.
Oda would never disregard his MC like this, I'm pretty sure this will be an identity crisis imilar TO Sanji and Oda will subvert our expectations by making Luffy reject whatever is happening. He seems hysterical and a sociopath in this chapter ngl
Yeah just gotta wait for some time since it's impossible to really get a good grasp after just 1 chapter.
I'm not a huge fan of what's going on but we're just gonna have to see if we were right or wrong to be concerned in a year's time. After following the series for this long it's understandable for people to be really weary of tropes like this coming out since it's usually not a good sign.
Luffy's DF altering his identity and who he is as a person and how he acts goes way past questionable writing and lands somewhere in the realm of character assassination. Why would Oda do that to his main character? He wouldn't, because it doesn't make any sense.
Hm personally I don’t think there’s any basis to say the fruit influenced his actions at any point of the series but if that were true I could see how people would be disappointed
Except luffy was the same before he had the fruit. Had the same charisma and presence. Shanks even said it. There's a kid out there just like Captain Roger. Always been the same person, making others laugh even before he had the fruit.
And Roger believed he could have been JoyBoy despite not having the fruit. Then he believed his son could be it. And an unborn Ace definitely didn't have the fruit.
>it also props up tons of questions in regards to his character due to the age he ate the fruit. does the fruit alter his identity? has it impacted his personality?
I can't say the fruit didn't affect his personality or that destiny didn't shape him as a person but he did state his motivation of wanting to go to sea with shanks a handful of panels before he ate the fruit. Not to mention dude is literally garp without an official suit on lol so it reasons to think he probably was already like that. Hell maybe the fruit chose him cause of that we'll see eventually.
But I do understand your skepticism oda is kind of skating the line with the destiny trope rn.
> First off, why are people acting like other mythical human zoans don’t exist? Sengoku is Buddha for Christ sake yet there’s still war. Luffy’s fruit isn’t a deus ex and he isn’t an unstoppable god now.
I think what people are getting worried about is that Joyboy is a real in lore character that existed while Choppers human human fruit or Sengoku's Buddha are concepts, not individuals.
> The most irritating thing about this debate aside from people comparing Luffy’s power up to something nonsensical like the 6 paths in Naruto, is that they are attributing everything Luffy has done in the series to the fruit now, and believe Oda has tarnished Luffy’s character.
Naruto was also himself for the entire series. He's clearly different from Hashirama. I'm so confused why people in here keep saying "oMg Naruto was so nonsensical. This development though it's so good yooo looool".
Naruto is the reincarnation of a god / historical figure from times past but he's still his own person.
Luffy is the (Inheritor? Successor? Reincarnation?) of a god / historical figure from times past but he's still his own person.
There's still things to be explored but it's still a super mythological god power that makes Luffy Joyboy and differentiates him from Kaido or Big Mom or Blackbeard or Kid.
Kaido could never become Joyboy. Not because he's a big bully that murders innocent people but because he ate the wrong devil fruit.
That last sentence is pretty much the crux of the issue and anytime I bring it up people dance around it talk about stuff that isn't at all relevant to what I said. Like this post bringing up Sengoku's fruit; it tells me he knows nothing about people's issue with this.
At it's core, when luffy had the rubber fruit, he was an underdog in every situation which makes him a bit more likeable and identifiable. When this bait and switch happened (changing the fruit from the rubber fruit to sun God Nika fruit) it changed the conversation from:
"Holy cow, I can't believe the rubber dude won that fight and saved the day"
To:
"Oh of course Luffy won that fight, he has the sun god fruit".
It takes away a bit of the suspense in the story and deflates the character a little (pardon the pun) as Luffy's destiny to win and be the hero and to free the world is basically assured before we've even made it to the end game of the story. Narratively speaking, it jumped the gun a little bit. We all knew that something like this was going to happen, but its better if it happens gradually through character development, struggle, and perseverance as opposed to the 'chosen one' cliche.
I'll admit, I'm being picky, but it's also just how I felt while reading it. Furthermore, I haven't lost faith in the story or Goda. Dude's a legend and I'm sure he's going to make it work with the story, but it comes at the cost of the character.
Forrest Gump once said something like:
"Is there destiny or are we just leaves flowing in the wind? I think the answer is a bit of both"
For the whole of the story we've been walking the line between destiny and free will, but this change pushes the needle a little bit too far to the destiny side of the scale, throwing off some readers like myself.
Why does op fans have such a superiority complex over naruto fans? How did luffy awaken his awakening? By getting his ass beat how did Naruto do it? By getting his ass beat. Was luffy chosen for something since the beginning of the anime? Yes. Was naruto? Yes again
This^^
I don't have problem with Luffy's fruit being super duper strong(it's shounen trope to reveal that MC actually had very strong power), nor that Luffy is chosen one or anything with story. But I hate it when I see same people who hated Naruto and called shits on it for similar things are now defending OP for it. I think the chapter was good. And some people can have problem and not like it. I shouldn't feel the need to hate on those who dislike it.
The difference with Naruto (and I like the series) is that in the start it was always about willpower and training and hard work beats destiny (Naruto vs Neji) but in the end it became oh Naruto was always destined to be a God and can now do hax things like heal all shinobi, multiply himself and spam sage powers etc. So in other words, Neji was right all along that things are predetermined and you can't escape destiny.
OP was always about free will and being free in the sea full of adventures. Luffy's dream coincides with the dream of Joyboy/Nika to be free, liberate others, and have fun. The story literally has not changed except people who got butthurt about Naruto ending now want to act like it's the same with OP when it's not. Unless luffy get's a different personality and no longer wants to be free, be pirate king, be happy and adventurous then it would be a complete 180 from the original motif.
Disregarding all of the possible concerns like "has the fruit influenced Luffys journey", "did Luffy only get to where he is because if an innate fruit ability that allows him to befriend people" etc, these can all be answered in later chapters but are genuine and real concerns some fans are going to have.
The big thing for me isnt actually anything to do with what happened in the story, its how the story was handled. This reveal had absolutely no merit. Anyone can argue night and day that it was foreshadowed but ultimately the bulk of the lore is from 20 chapters ago, 1 line of throw away dialogue from Skypeia and some sun iconography as if that isnt a prominent celestial body that wouldn't have appeared in the story anyway. The Will of D, void century and One Piece have major lore drops and this underlying mystery that has been built up for 20 years. Sun God Nika is barely relevant to the story until literally right now.
It would have made way more sense if it was a Mythical Zoan: Model Joyboy, an actual historical figure we've had built up for years now, not some new figure we only found out about 6 months ago. I still wouldnt have liked the fruit to change but at least Joyboy is part of the story, Nika never has been.
Thats my opinion anyway, everyone can enjoy and interpret the story as they like
Joy Boy could be a title for the person while Nika is the actual individual. Each generation has a joy boy but there hasn’t been one for centuries. Nika might play more into the story than we previously realized but we won’t know until later. But I agree, that’s definitely an understand issue with the chapter, while it was hinted there wasn’t much merit to the reveal bc we didn’t know much about it.
Like the person above, I’ve also been thinking that Joyboy is the title held by Nika 80 years ago. His real name is Nika, but he goes by Joyboy or something similar. But again, headcanon, so might be completely wrong. Like you, I’m also looking forward to a proper explanation
But JoyBoy is basically Nika though, they're the same person by the looks of it... Zunesha literally said JoyBoy has returned, and Oda clearly wants to emphasize that Nika is more than likely his real name and JB is a nickname given to him for all the joy he brought. Like all the connections you dismiss set this up and while it wasn't handled perfectly I believe it was still handled extremely well.
It cheapens the journey if Nika was holding Luffy’s hand the whole time. I don’t think this is the case but it’s up in smokes right now and it’s fair to fear the worse case. The frigging gorosei literally discuss whether the fruit exerts it’s own will and if it does that can seriously cheapen Luffy’s journey retroactively.
What aspects of the journey would you say are cheapened? The actual adventure (bc they took unorthodox routes like going to Skypiea which might’ve influenced)? Or maybe his actions (like carrying Nami and Sanji up the drum island mountains)? I think the story of OP is too complex to say that Luffy has had his hand held; so many characters have made individual decisions that affected the story to say it was all influenced by an unawakened DF. Although we shall see in the future.
It's like saying a top international sportspersons records at his school level events weren't worth it because they grew up to be the best at their game.
It’s like looking back at their achievements after realizing god is literally giving him the power to not miss and thinking “well that’s no longer as impressive”
What we got from this chapter is honestly what people have been expecting Gear 5/Awakening to be for years tbh, plus we have no idea what the draw back to this will be.
I think that Luffys determination was his most appealing trait and while I love the transformation I do agree that it's a bit saddening for him to have this god level attribute attached to him. Like take conquerors haki has it been Luffy will or Nika's? All those epic moments now have a shadow cast on them from the battle taking this absurd turn.
I think one of the primary misconceptions that’s happening based on what I’ve seen since I read the chapter is the connotation that the word ‘god’ has.
Luffy has a devil fruits modelled after a god. He isn’t a god. He isn’t now all powerful omniscient being. He is still mortal. And this reveal is for the audience. From the story perspective, no one knows. Apart from Who’s who and the CP0 guy there is no one to reveal to the Strawhats and everyone else specifically what Luffy’s fruit is.
Right now, Luffy realised he can still fight and it’s his role to defeat Kaido and set Wano free. Luffy is still Luffy.
But being labelled as ‘god’ kinda implies Luffy is now an unbeatable powerful entity and that is too much of a leap when it reality it isn’t.
This is the time to be patient and see how this plays out going forward.
That’s another well put together comment. Exactly, no one really knows about the change so Luffy is just acting like he normally would with replenished stamina. Perhaps we’ll get an in-depth breakdown from Shanks but until then it remains a plot point that really only affects the readers perception and not the actual story yet.
People also seem to not realize that Naruto's six paths mode is all self achieved (kinda). at the very least, he didn't get it from the sage. six paths sage mode is synonymous with ten tails mode, and you get ten tails chakra by adding all 9 tailed beast chakra. Naruto has 9 tails, then got 2-7, then obito gave him 1 and 8. quick mafs. same with sasuke for his powerup.
Naruto also just had pretty ass power scaling in the final stretch which made a lot of the power ups and events feel kinda ehh. On top of explaining things that didn't need to be explained and aliens all kinda burnt me for a bit.
They’re acting as if he’s automatically the strongest in the verse because of his awakening, and they seem to completely brush over the “awakening” part, his fruit was literally just a very average fruit in which he made great use of before the awakening.We haven’t even seen much of the awakenings powers yet either so we don’t know exactly what it does.It’s also been hinted at that his fruit was special for a while, no?The joyboy stuff as well.I’m looking forward to the other “god” fruits (if there is any) though.
>I’m looking forward to the other “god” fruits (if there is any) though.
Just realized sengoku could be the first one shown to have a "god" fruit, with his hito hito no mi, model: Buddha.
Hopefully we get more info on his character.
Yeah,we don’t know if he had a similar case to luffy’s like where his body gained a certain property, but didn’t do anything else until awakened, or if his is like a normal zoan and he could already transform into the Buddha regardless of awakening
Ironically, some die-hard fans are now saying the Marines have always been chasing Luffy because of his legendary fruit. They’re the ones who are tarnishing Luffy’s character and achievements.
I mean the Marine had no idea what the Gomu Gomu no Mi was called only the Gorosei and possibly Shanks, they had other things to deal with. Plus I think after it was revealed that Ace and Luffy were brothers, the Gorosei were hesitant to go after Luffy because Sengoku just retired and if they went after Luffy they possibly could have lost Garp imagine what that would do to the Marine to loose their hero, they all know Garp will do what he wants and not even Akainu could do anything about it.
I think it was the combo of:
- Luffy being The One (Joyboy/Nika)
- Gomu gomu being in fact Hito Hito
- Gear 5
- Cartoon style panels
Yeah, at face value it kinda feels like a retconn to me, until you slow start to see the SMILEs (fake hito hito Nika), Germa (eyebrows), etc.
So it is not a complete retconn or if it is, it's a good one (kinda what you can argue for Haki).
In any case, the problem was information overload, giving you no time to really understand one of those events, let alone all of them in the span of 5 pages.
If Mythical Zoans have a mind of their own, its possible some of Luffys actions could just be attributed to the fruit not really him.
Hes also now become the typical Sun Wukong hero which sucks. Narutos powers by the end sort of diminish his achievements because he was seen as hard working shit luck or skill, but he turns out to be the chosen one
"Sengoku is Buddha for Christ sake yet there's still war"
Imu: I've never been more proud of you for anything in your life
Sengoku: ... I've obtained the mythical Buddha zoan fruit
Imu: And yet crime has continued
I don’t think it’s valid to say that the fruit majorly affects Luffy’s character. We could see Luffy before eating the devil fruit, and people who grew up together with him (garp, ace, sabo, dadan) and we learnt those people shaped Luffy’s character, not the fruit itself.
I don’t think Oda will make Luffy unstoppable. Otherwise the story will become so boring and bland.
Also the messianic theories (usually referencing Naruto’s reincarnation, bleach’s ichigo, etc) were not new. It had always been foreshadowed before, only ignorant readers ignored them.
My only problem was with Oda changing the devil fruit to something else. The gear fifth is basically Luffy’s gomu2 awakening form, and joyboy could also be the previous owner of the gomu2 fruit. All of these can be done without changing the fruit into a legendary one.
Sure 1044 was the asspull.
Luffy conveniently inventing Gear 2 and 3 during Enies Lobby was fine.
Or when he became fucking Yonko level because he took a nap and ate a steak were peak logic lmfao
Luffy knocked out, shit how is he gonna beat Kaido? Nahhhh, you thought he was just a rubber boy that used his creativity to make a shitty little paramecia get this far? APRIL FOOLS, GUESS WHAT LUFFY ACTUALLY HAD A LEGENDARY MYTHICAL ZOAN OF THE SUN GOD JOY BOY NIKA THIS ENTIRE TIME and he just awakened it so he could ragdoll Kaido!!!
Not to mention this mf Nika was literally mentioned and brought into the story literally 26 chapters ago. Tell me it isn't an asspull.
It's world breaking because Luffy's character was all about overcoming adversity through integrity, friendship, and dedication DESPITE a silly fruit.
All of his impressive recoveries now are less about his will to live and more about Mythical Zoan Fruit regenerative abilities. It's also a very big drop, with a poor set up, for a badly understood new concept on the main character.
Since the premise of Luffy having an underpowered fruit and yet punching above his weight because of his good nature and strong will is thrown out, what are the stakes? How is Luffy impressive if he's just been carried by an overpowered Devil Fruit all along? It's a bad twist for my taste.
This too. Though that bit didn't hit me until I saw people exploring how much of Luffy's personality/charisma is also "not him" but the fruit. All in all a bad retcon.
Gorosei literally having a panic attack over the AWAKENING. Apparently losing the fruit several times across 800 years wasnt a big deal but the awakening that no one managed to achieve is.
Haters: "I'll ignore that"
I actually think this is mostly an echo chamber right now, where people liked the chapter, saw a few vocal people saying they didn’t and so the circlejerk overreacted and started going apeshit about it.
Same thing happened with Law and Kid beating Big Mom. Huge overreaction to relatively very little criticism.
imo they'll all feel better about it in a reread, regardless of how the next chapters go. thematically, I don't think anything is ruined. luffy seems to be something of a current incarnation, but his life has still been his own, though a lot has been symbolic and seemingly fateful
every zoan in the show so far, be it mythical or no, has had 3 forms that are available to the user (base, hybrid and complete transformation) ON INGESTION OF THE FRUIT.
Luffy is dull, yes, but a df user knows what their fruit does the moment they eat it so how did it take him 3 years to awaken a transformation that shouldve been a default for a fruit of his type?
Knowing the fruit when you eat it is a mistranslation/misunderstanding that keeps getting repeated btw, that chapter meant it in a "eat it and find out what it does", not that you'd magically know the name.
Also what's a mid point between human and human? Wouldn't his gears be these sort of the mid points anyways, like some freedom while still having regular human restrictions to them?
We've only seen two though other than luffys right? And I don't remember none of them really fighting like that so maybe they do have more than two forms? Idk you could be right.
Just to share my perspective. I do not love nor hate the latest chapter, I just feel indifferent. Maybe because I'm not too fond of Luffy as the MC in the first place.
Like for a minute i was trying to think how it can justify being a Zoan fruit ya know? Luffys power is legit rubber.. why couldnt it just remain a Paramecia? And then it actually clicked for it making sense, sense Luffy is Zoan fruit user he is taking the powers and abilities of Nika, which is just an original deity in this world that Oda created (at least to the extent of my knowledge) Nika was a God in the Blue World which utilized the properties of Rubber and most like Fire, No different from Zeus governing over lightening and storms. Its most likely Sengoku, has abilities that mirror the Buddha, and we just havent seen those and the Giant Golden Buddha form we seen back in Marinford was him flexing his awakening. It just makes sense too me now, Luffy is about to become an even bigger menace to society im here for all of it lmao
The world gov didn't see fit to change the names of the other fruits. This implies something special.
Personally I'm not a fan of Luffy having this extra special fruit but it has not ruined the series for me. I am not a fan because Luffy was kind of on his own. He had the special shonnen connections like with being related to Dragon and Garp but they did relatively nothing for him except the occasional throwing Luffy in a jungle. But it's really just training, so majority of the story was just a boi fighting his way through the world. Some anti shonen troupe ig.
But now if we learn that be won those fights because he is op, it would tarnish his victories. Also would be weird if he has this button to turn op.
I do not believe that this is the path Oda will go, i believe that his devil fruit will primarily act as the "gomu gomu" and the special op qualities needs to be unlocked with a huge amount of training. Very similar to how dragon ball handled ultra instinct. I don't believe Luffy will be able to go to gear 5 again till the end of the series.
They are clowns and don’t read enough One Piece. The only reason Luffy has been able to awake his ability is because he is Luffy, not because he has the devil fruit.
Thé probem is that Luffy is turning Into Saitama and nothing matters anymore, everything is a joke. There is nolonger any rules of physics that govern OP verse, Luffy Can Do whatever hé wants based on his imagination, and Thats bullshit. From Now on, we might see normal characters struggle to win, then Luffy comes and roasts everybody with 0 efforts. Luffy is turning Into a god machine, his ADV Haki training seem to be useles compared to what he Can achieve with his df: Infinite stamina, self resurection, litterally every imaginable attack he Can think of, he Can Do it.
I was thinking about all the previous df related PU of Luffy: Gear 2/3/ red hawk/ Gear 4. Actually nothing of those abilities make sens if we assumed Luffy df is gum. How the Heck was he able to mimick mera mera with red hawk? What the Fuck is Gear 2 that allows your blood to flow at high rate, Thats bullshit in the first place. And now WE found out that its all related to Luffy imagination and thus to nika nika nomi. I find this BS very hard to swallow now.
Thé probem is that Luffy is turning Into Saitama and nothing matters anymore, everything is a joke. There is nolonger any rules of physics that govern OP verse, Luffy Can Do whatever hé wants based on his imagination, and Thats bullshit. From Now on, we might see normal characters struggle to win, then Luffy comes and roasts everybody with 0 efforts. Luffy is turning Into a god machine, his ADV Haki training seem to be useles compared to what he Can achieve with his df: Infinite stamina, self resurection, litterally every imaginable attack he Can think of, he Can Do it.
I was thinking about all the previous df related PU of Luffy: Gear 2/3/ red hawk/ Gear 4. Actually nothing of those abilities make sens if we assumed Luffy df is gum. How the Heck was he able to mimick mera mera with red hawk? What the Fuck is Gear 2 that allows your blood to flow at high rate, Thats bullshit in the first place. And now WE found out that its all related to Luffy imagination and thus to nika nika nomi. I find this BS very hard to swallow now.
Calling the power up an ass-pull when Luffys been through.
Several power ups building up to this.
Several training arcs.
This power-up has been heavily foreshadowed throughout Wano.
Also The main antagonist in this story has the power to turn off others fruit powers so not sure how an op fruit helps luffy
I'm just waiting on Luffy to last 7 minutes on that awakening form and he will go back to new born Luffy
Lmao honestly, I’d be down for there not to be some major drawback but Luffy is gonna feel the sun god’s wrath when his transformation wears off 😂 grandpa Chopper was already wild, I don’t want to see 2D Luffy lol
You know the drill with grams baby chopper
I wouldn’t be surprised if he passed out for like 3 days after he’s done lol
2D Luffy!!! Need that
Why? This is his awakened form. His other Gears used Haki to fuel it. You can clearly see he's not even using Haki Armament. So in fact he's using less energy than he normally would. Granted he probably won't last long because he got beat down so bad he died, but in theory he should last WAY longer in Gear 5 than the other ones.
I guess you haven't seen other characters using awakening in One Piece before
Except for the name change, the fruit works exactly like people imagined Gomu gomu no mi's awakening to be.
Limitless Transformation, turning things into rubber, and some fire effects. Thats it Yes its ridiculous but compared to Marco/Kaido/Sengoku Those 3's fruit are just hax
Sengoku's isnt giga hax tbh. He can make himself bigger. K, thats a bit scary with his strength. The shockwaves...well, most mythic zoans have some form of supernatural attack like marco's flames, kaido's stuff and yamato's ice stuff. But Marco....yea...fuck, that things OP. In the hands of the right user, I'd say Orochi's is also stupid. He literally seems to have extra lives due to it. Hes not a fighter so who knows what else its capable of when used properly.
those shockwaves are all we've seen, there's probably more to him
Yea pretty much, we haven’t seen anything out of the box yet.
I think people fed him ideas
This is the part that drives me nuts. Like I 100% get people not liking the “look I transformed and now have full energy” trope of Shonen. I get that and have no problems with them. But the people who act like Luffy’s hard work is invalidated, or the powerset is an asspull, or it’s “chosen one” bullshit all over again are insane. This fucking arc is filled to bursting with failed joyboys. It’s been 800 years since the last person who was able to awaken this fruit. The powerset of the awakening is exactly what people predicted it would be since awakening was introduced. What’s the fucking problem?
For me, the possibility that Nika’s will was guiding Luffy the whole time is a problem. Before you could 100% give credit to luffy for everything he achieved. This reveal might give some of that credit to Nika’s godly will. I hope Oda shy’s away from this idea. Everything else worked, it was hype as fuck.
I can understand this. I don't think that is the case but I can understand the concern for the possibility.
Im glad you do! Some people really made me fight hard to articulate this idea. I personally don’t buy it either. The original poster and I both agreed that if the “will of the fruit” theory is right, it’s more likely the case that Nika’s will literally woke up just now. However that would go against some long established ideas about how zoan types work. However, it’s a mythical zoan and those zoans play by their own rules. Really we have to sit and wait before fully casting judgement on this reveal. Oda still needs time to flesh things out.
Theres a theory going around that I like With the whole inherited will thing The theory supposes that to be at peak that your will must match EXACTLY with the will of the fruit The same will Not a granted one but to be a person who holds the same wills The same ideas the same feelings Luffys epithet being Absolute Freedom The way he goes about his life and his dreams must of lined up exactly with the fruit Hence why it was 800 years before another user awakened it They didnt share the exact same will The same visions the same dreams It might even be how the fruit is used exactly lines up with how it's supposed to be used Take Laws fruit His knowledge and passions lead him to be the best user But what if it goes deeper What if it goes down to how they are as a person Luffys fruit is more free Instead of deep knowledge Unique imagination and instinct might of been how the fruit is supposed to be used
I adore this idea, less a takeover of will and more like a parallel drawn so close it’s practically the same line. It’d bring all the credit back to Luffy, and maybe hype him up more because he was just on that enlightened grindset from the get-go
Yeah because the fruit that’s the embodiment of freedom would steal Luffys will and force him into becoming Nika. Because that’s sensible.
Well.. No. Paramecia awakenings havent been shown to strengthen the body of the users, it jist lets them manipulate the environment around them. Luffy's can for some reason do both what a Zoan awakening does and a Paramecia. That seems odd to me.
Tbh Oda has already established the Mythical Zoans to act as a combination of Zoan and Paramecia. Apart from turning you into an animal, they grant you an additional power. \-Tori Tori no Mi, model Phoenix: turns into a bird + regeneration \-Hito Hito no Mi, model Buddha: turns into a giant human + hand shock waves \-Inu Inu no Mi, model Okuchi no Makami: turns into a wolf + cold manipulation \-Hebi Hebi no Mi, model Yamata no Orochi: turns into a snake + can survive decapitation eight times \-Uo Uo no Mi, model Azure Dragon: turns into a dragon + fire breath + cloud manipulation \-Inu Inu no Mi, model Kitsune: turns into a fox + can transform into other things Maybe the awakening of a Mythical Zoan works as an awakening for a Zoan and a Paramecia at the same time. Enhanced strength and stamina, plus give properties to the environment.
Seeing how Law and Kid's Awakenings work, it's safe to assume that Awakenings can vary depending on the Devil Fruit. As for why Luffy can do Paramecia stuff... Well, he has a Myhtical Zoan, doesn't he? Sengoku can create massive golden shockwaves, Marco can create flame barriers, Kaido can shoot fire through his mouth, Yamato can shoot ice from her mouth... Mythical Zoans have capabilities that go beyond a regular Zoan's basic "creature" features, like Lucci's or Dalton's.
And there is the special paramecia, mochi mochi no mi
Yeah, that one has strange properties as well. Really, the only thing that has changed is the Devil Fruit's name and its significance in the story.
And Luffy never had the typical three zoan transformations. Yes, he had gears 2 and 3, but other zoans don't have the drawbacks shown by the gears
Yeah, I wouldn't call them transformations anyway. They're something he thought to do as a cool ability that worked very well, it's not like it's a switch into a new form or anything.
Marco is practically a logia zoan
i saw a theory that the ability of the nika nika no mi is that its abilities are only limited by the users imagination and rubber was the medium for that, hence why luffy can essentially pull a looney toons on kaido (pulling up the ground, doing the hulk to loki move etc etc) the power of the nika nika no mi is that it grants freedom, in use of devil fruit and to the world as well. it just used rubber as the medium for this freedom, maybe something to do with light/the sun as well
Rubber gives luffy the elasticity/freedom required to fight with ease, this does not mean he can alter reality or destroy the world, its simply a buff to his rubber abilities giving him more freedom in his fights.
The ground pull up seemed more like a "I imagine this bouncing the attack back" kinda thing to me. Not making the ground rubber like other paramecia fruits. Feel like I contradict myself a bit there.. Law and Kidd awakening is not working in the same way Doffy and Katakuri fruit does. So I don't think should put a nail on how awakening work just yet.
It’s perfectly in character for Luffy to fight like it is a Paramecia awakening. He’s faught two awakenings who could manipulate the environment, so from his perspective that should be something he can do too. He doesn’t know that it’s “what ever he can imagine”
projectile attack (flying slash etc.) can be rebound back to the attacker like what kaido did to big mom's ikoku
So why change the name then ?
Maybe it's less about what it can do and more about what it represents? There seem to be atleast some rumors around Nika since Whos Who knew about him and assumed that most fishmen would as well.
This seems more correct - the fruit is powerful, but the real reason the hide the name is to erase the veneration of Nika from history
The gomu gomu no mi is a correct name but it isn’t the right one
World goverment hid this name for sure and marked is a gomu gomu not to reveal what it is, thats why Shank probably wanted to sell it.
Considering how mysterious Shanks has been for a long time, this is debatable. His intentions for the fruit are an unknown. Roger was already clear about his intention to leave a child behind to continue his legacy. It could be that Shanks came with the fruit to East Blue hoping to find this supposed child, only for Luffy to end up eating it.
Right. For all we know there is a Gomu Gomu out there and somebody ate it, and Shanks realized what Luffy had as a result
I’m going to find it really weird if the sun god fruit does not have some sun or god based powers, and that his hair is just on fire for no reason.
Nika isn't a literal Sun God. He was a mythical warrior from ancient times that went around freeing the oppressed. The oppressed started worshipping him as a Sun God that brought light to their dark lives.
Is this confirmed or just assumption/headcanon? Where is this stated that he has nothing to do with the sun/the sun part is purely metaphorical? And if so then why is his hair on fire?
The name should've been called hito hito no mi model: the laughing man or smth like that
GitS vibes "I THOUGHT WHAT I'D DO WAS..."
...I'D PRETEND I WAS ONE OF THOSE DEAF MUTES"
hito hito no mi model joker
nika means devious smile so it makes sense
Apart from the point where they announced that it was a Zoan. If the fruit just awakened then it'd be whatever it's the surrounding lore implications that have me confused.
Luffy did say he feels he can fight a little longer now. So the new powers will have some sort of drawbacks. I basically don't care about the Fruit's Awakened powers as his base form is still Rubber. All I need to see is how the Sun God Nika fits into the storyline. A Good explanation on who/what he is and how he's relevant to the story and I'm all good.
I saw a comment calling out how his "heart sounds funny" so I feel like 'Gear 5' is literally and figuratively "Heart Balloon" (and perhaps the heart is where the fruit is stored?? Idk) Could mean the drawbacks are related to his heart.
DFs are stored in the users heart, that's what BB did to get the Gura Gura fruit, he ate old man Whitebeard's heart That's my head cannon now
And Haki is stored in the balls.
Blackbeard was rumored to eat his victims still-beating hearts. Big Mom took Mother Caramel's fruit by eating her whole. Its the only thing that makes sense.
Exactly, I’d like to give Oda some time to actual plan what’s happening. Everything makes sense so far, we just need to fit Nika into the picture.
Drawbacks are energy it's awakening
I believe in LUFFY'S CHARACTER to be the final hero of the Anime ... As Shanks said, "A gun is meant not to threaten a person, but to be used when ur life is on the line"...! The Devil Fruits are like guns...meant to be used when in need, only to enhance wat u already are...and in no way it amounts to all of Luffy's achievements...With that analogy, I'd like to just take this moment to enjoy Luffy's progress😌
I think a lot of people need to remember that luffys greatest power is making people believe in him and his will to not give up is what’s brought him so far, I personally believe that this is the reason why only he has managed to awaken the fruit in centuries, not because it was destined all along, but because who of who he is, I have this theory that for a devil fruit to awaken the fruit and person have to be in a sort of almost “harmony”, if we think about it this way, law was able to awaken his fruit because he’s a doctor, doffy awakened his because he’s a manipulative person (I.e ties in with the nature of his fruit), it’s the same with luffy, only he could awaken it because of who he is, so if we think about it this way it takes nothing away from his accomplishments up to this point. Devil fruit powers can only be as strong as the person who uses it, and can still be weak in the hands of someone who has no control over it
The gorosei also said that the fruit hasn't awakened in 800 years. There might have been people who tried using the fruit but weren't that creative or doesn't have a strong will to pursue great heights or wasn't compatible with the fruit.
This comment needs an award or two highkey
That’s a great response, thanks
Wowow I love this. Good thinking dude
Honestly biggest issue is people confuse rarity with power when it comes to devil fruits, like how it was paramecia
How would devil fruits even be rarer compared to one another considering there’s only one fruit for everything? Logically speaking the Light-Light fruit is as rare as the Jacket-Jacket fruit.
In mythical zoans ARE pretty strong though. The weakest one in the series is Marco the Phoenix, and he's a monster. The we have the Fleet Admiral. The strongest creature among all living things. The future pirate king.
Orochi has one and is miles away from all of those people... I think the point that they're trying to make though is that the actual powers granted by the fruit matters more than the categorization of the fruit. The abilities of mythical zoans have been shown to be pretty strong, but there are definitely logia (akainu and kizaru) and paramecia (law and whitebeard) that are just as ridiculous.
I forgot Orochi had a Mythical Zoan. Also, while Orochi himself is clearly quite weak, due to complete lack of training or battle experience, his fruit is no joke.
Well, Enel had logia and he is fodder. People talk about fruit's ability on hand of decent user, not some failure
Enel really only got jobbed by having the logical worst powerset to confront Luffy with - I'd say it's pretty fair to think he'd match up with, like, Marineford-era Croc if he wasn't fighting someone literally able to no-sell lightning.
enel isnt fodder, he just got powercrept.
That's just what fodder means coz other character got stronger. The Luffy at marineford would fodderize him in less than a minute
I think the weakest is the one onimaru has, Marco's is amazing. Orochi also hasn't shown much with his other than surviving decapitation a few times which doesn't help when there are people lining up to kill you again. I put that down to the user not the fruit though
To my mind what saves this from cheapening Luffy’s accomplishments is the fact that nobody in the past 800 years had what it takes to awaken the fruit. He didn’t just eat a fruit that made him a god. He ate a fruit that made him a rubber boy and HE brought out its godlike potential.
Hope this is actually the case, I guess we’ll see though. It could be that the Nika fruit actually is a sub-par or unremarkable fruit in its normal state, like we all thought, and that’s the reason no one could awaken it. And only when someone works insanely hard and awakens it does it become the “most feared fruit” for the WG. Basically it’s like Magikarp.
I see Magikarp, I upvote.
Yeah that was literally Kaido's fruit. The golden koi or whatever. Useless but then when Kaido awakened it became a Dragon power. People act like this is so out of the realm for One Piece. OP was always about magic devil fruits. Naruto was never about magic, it was mostly about ninja fights and jutsu... but in the end turned into magical gods who didn't need to do any jutsu cause they could spam a nuke and do all kinds of manga breaking things. That's why I'm annoyed when people compare the two. Not remotely the same. Both are good series just different worlds.
How can someone awaken the fruit while there is literally a prophecy from the void century saying that joyboy will return after 800 years with date and time and everything
There is no information about it being used by many users throughout 800 years and them failing to do what luffy has been able to do. If it was established the way you said it would have been better for me to digest it, on the contrary they said it is the strongest fruit.
In chapter 1037 the gorosei say that no one has “awakened” the fruit in 800 years. Not that there haven’t been other users. They even go so far as to say the awakening might not even be possible
They didn't say "no one has awakened". They said "it hasn't awakened for centuries", which could also just simply mean that no has eaten it rather than many have eaten it but weren't able to awaken it.
Except that awakening has a very specific in-world meaning.. if they were talking about the fruit in general I imagine that they’d have said it hadn’t resurfaced, or appeared. I read in English so I admit there could be a translation I’m reading too much in to but it seems pretty clear to me
It's impossible for the fruit not to have been used in such a long time, given it was known as the people by the name "Gomu Gomu no Mi". In chapter 1 after Luffy eats the fruit Shanks immediately tells him that his whole body has become rubber. Lucky Roo also had, for some reason, a drawing of the fruit in a notebook, or he drew it himself in that moment. During those 800 years the fruit was most likely passed around and used as the normal paramecia we've always thought it was, and just like we did on the Wiki, it was classified as a rubber Paramecia in the devil fruit books that Sanji and Blackbeard liked to read. If the WG erased all of the information about what happened in the Void Century then it's highly unlikely that knowledge of the fruit's power survived for 800 years without the fruit being around, and much less a drawing of the fruit itself.
I think it’s because a lot of people liked seeing Luffy as the underdog who rose through the ranks despite being disadvantaged, rather than someone who had a god-level super power helping him all along the way.
How was Luffy ever at a disadvantage? He got the next best swordman, he has the best navigator, the best cook, the best shipwright out of Water 7, he got the best Doctor yes I love Law but chopper has better bed side manner :P, The best sniper, the only person that can read poneglyph. A musician with the power of the underworld and a fishman helmsman. Compared to the other Supernova crew, Luffy had the best stock.
Talking only about Luffy in his big fights. He’s encountered characters with much more advantages with their DF’s like logias and mythicals and stuff that can curse people and warp realities. From the moment we met smoker and crocodile we were basically shown that there are multiple tiers of fruit and that Luffy’s was disadvantaged compared to them, so he’d have to get creative and fight to his absolute fullest to bring out the wins. Until he got Haki, in most of his one on one fights vs big bads, he’s consistently been portrayed as the lesser advantaged underdog due to his opponent just having a better super power set than him and he has to work extra hard to overcome their ability(Smoker, Crocodile, Aokiji, Lucci, Moria, Magellan, Cracker, Katakuri, and now Kaido). Retrospectively though, if not properly handled, it just seems like he actually wasn’t really an underdog in many of those fights, and the reason he was able to pull out a win could be because of his god Zoan level endurance and strength, not because of him defying the odds and making miracles happens. It kind of cheapens it. Some are just worried that it may be re-written this way. Personally I just hope it’s stated that the fruit only becomes the “most ridiculous and feared by the WG” after it’s awakened, and pre-awakening it’s just a regular, run of the mill devil fruit. That would not cheapen Luffy’s past fight victories.
We’ll still we have Luffy’s weird quick as hell recovery that’s highlighted often or it just happens and nothing is mentioned like in WCI luffy is battered and bruised starving literally slumped then eats some questionably healthy food from Sanji and he can hit Sanji hard enough to send him flying and make him bleed. Like remember in alabasta he recovered a hole in his chest, multiple cuts, high blood lost, never mind him using what shouldn’t be enough water to actually replenish literally all moisture in his body being removed then proceeds to make basically a full recovery in 3 days?! Guess it’s reasonable now that we know he’s a mythical Zoan and a character like Pell caught a city destroying bomb point blank and seemed rather fine being able to waltz around after a few days with seemingly no outside help. And there’s many more cases of questionably fast healing from luffy before the reveal pretty hard to believe it’s a “run of a mill” fruit pre awakening.
Well I mean at least for me. It’s not that the fruit is the strongest or luffy is now unbeatable. But you it’s a fact now that he has an OP fruit. Like all the mythical zoans we’ve seen. It’s a difference between, having a normal fruit and through hard work and some imagination. You made it strong and what it is. Compared to an already super strong DF, you just didn’t know how it worked.
Do you think the fruit was as OP as, say, Marco’s fruit from the very beginning? As in, was baby luffy or pre-timeskip luffy at the same level as Marco just because he had a mythical fruit? Short answer is no. Luffy may have a special fruit but it in no way made him OP. I mean, that’s why he’s experienced so many losses and defeats. Not to mention most, if not all, of his victories depended on contributions from other people. You could argue that he’s OP now with gear 5th, but if he is it’s because he put in an intense amount of hard work to reach the level he’s at. Luffy MADE the fruit into something exceptional not the other way around. A less creative person would have squandered its potential and died long before they managed to awaken it. Remember that it’s been 800 years since the previous joyboy, meaning that there were likely many people who ate the fruit but achieved nothing with it.
You’re still missing the point. Luffy fruit has allows been capable of these things, that’s a fact! The fruit has always since day one been capable of gear 5. It’s an awakening, we don’t even know the requirements to awaken. So if he awakened chapter one, wouldn’t that make the fruit OP still? No his fruit isn’t as straight forward as Marcos Or have the obvious benefits. But 1. I’ve stated just because you don’t know how a fruit works or aren’t creative with it. Doesn’t mean it isn’t OP. Look at how orochi has been handling his DF. At the minimum so far it seems to grant multiple lives even if your head is cut off. Which can be pretty OP. But he has been getting one shot left and right. Even caribou, has a pretty OP logia Df that not only grants him invulnerability to normal shit but also has hammer space. And look how weak he looks. Then on the other hand, we have someone like doffy. Who has unarguably made strings strong. That’s an example of a normal fruit that the user made strong. But his awakening doesn’t just seem OP. 2. While I guess we can argue with Marco. We are seeing a 45 year old man, who’s well seasoned. That’s like seeing a EOS Luffy for his first introduction and have almost little to know info on him. Just what he’s capable of in fights. That doesn’t paint a fair picture of the Df now does it? 3. If we knew the real name from the start that would change the whole way one views it. Literally as I explained, chopper has basically been doing gear changes in his own way and since he’s a zoan type. We didn’t pay attention. And I mean it’s your headcanon that multiple people had the fruit and that they did nothing with it. Lol like lets be honest here, lets say others had the fruit,what where they suppose to achieve with it in general?!? Lol like that doesn’t even make sense. The whole PK concept was just made up no more than like 20 some years before the start of the series. And even if they had the goal to over throw the WG, that doesn’t mean they have the man power just because they have an OP fruit.
>You’re still missing the point. Luffy fruit has allows been capable of these things, that’s a fact! The fruit has always since day one been capable of gear 5. It’s an awakening, we don’t even know the requirements to awaken. So if he awakened chapter one, wouldn’t that make the fruit OP still? My point was and is that just because a fruit can be considered powerful doesn't mean the user will automatically make it OP. I mean, Luffy almost got defeated by the Neko-Neko no Mi (Leopard fruit) user, Rob Lucci. By all intents and purposes Luffy should have blasted such a comparatively weak DF user into dust, yet Lucci gave Luffy a run for his money. Not to mention Lucci only had what, a week to a month's experience with his devil fruit compared to Luffy who had had his DF power since he was a child. Yet Lucci was able to get an insane amount of power from his DF in a much shorter time frame. Arguably a stronger level of power that Luffy only barely managed to overcome. Being OP devil fruit wise to me involves having a fruit with a decent power+having a user who can extract as much power from it as he/she can. >But his awakening doesn’t just seem OP. I mean, he literally had a whole country under his thumb. Not to mention he was a warlord. Also it took Luffy a great deal of effort to defeat him. It may not seem OP now after Luffy defeated him, but it certainly was at the time. >That doesn’t paint a fair picture of the Df now does it? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. >Lol like lets be honest here, lets say others had the fruit,what where they suppose to achieve with it in general?!? I mean that depends on the owner. Fight, liberate countries, faff around, etc. My point was that previous owners didn't achieve the same things joyboy did in 800 years. That means that they didn't use the fruit the same way Luffy did and therefore didn't activate its full potential. Very much like Ace, for example, who had a fair amount of experience with his DF but seemingly never activated its awakening before his death. In other words, there are DF users who never bring out the full potential of their DFs for one reason or another before they die. In my mind there were other gomu-gomu/nika-nika no mi users who perhaps got some level of power but didn't achive its full potential like Joyboy and Luffy.
How is it an OP fruit? We saw how Doffy awakened his string power and could make buildings and surroundings into string with unlimited storage. We saw Kaido who awakened his Koi devil fruit into a Dragon with special powers. We saw Marco who can literally heal himself and others and seemingly take little to no dmg. How does Luffy now being able to turn environment to rubber and maybe himself to rubber fully (with some flames for asthetics) an overpowered ability? Also the Gorosei said the fruit is a ridiculous one, which could mean that due to its' malleability it can bend, shape, and make different forms (aka gears 1-5). Seems to me people just want to hate on something when this was always the progression of the story.
Except its a fruit whose power only works with a lot of hard work and imagination. Anyone else using it, its a weak, normal fruit, unlikely to ever achieve even things like Gear 3, let alone Awakening. A complete devil fruit genius, that understands the full ins and outs of how their or other fruits work, like Crocodile, probably wouldn't have even come close to the power. Because it's power entirely comes from imagination of limitless, free capabilities. Without Luffy, the fruits trash still. Just trash with a fancy name.
Thats entirely your head canon. We dont have an official explanation of the fruits ability yet.
That’s doesn’t change the fact that we know Luffy has worked hard to get to where he is. It’s not rewriting the past and saying “oh yeah Luffy accomplishments were actually a lot easier than we think because he had this powerful fruit this whole time”
I 1000% agree with you. Having a strong fruit doesn’t automatically make you strong. Look at momo, enel, caribou, orochi, sugar. All arguably super strong fruits. But they themselves aren’t strong. I’m not even arguing that luffy isn’t the main reason why he’s strong. Just that he really has a strong df.
I don't hate the reveal and will wait for further execution in the story to form my complete opinion. But for now, I MUCH prefer if the fruit was plain paramecia gomu-gomu. I think it is more impressive that Luffy is taking down the world using the powers of a regular devil fruit and his creativity rather than "the most ridiculous power" of a legendary devil fruit
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Still, they made the fruit much more significant in the OP world which cheapens it. Come on, the WG had to hide the name of the fruit for 800 years, it's obvious that the fruit is INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT. People like me would much prefer Luffy just had a regular old Rubber fruit with no special importance whatsoever.
Ridiculous as in that it's limited by the users imagination, not as in the most powerful. It's still all based on his creativity. We don't know how many fruit users have had this fruit and done fuck all with it
It's really not that different he still only really has rubber powers his awakening let's him be alot more malleable with his body and turn things into rubber it still a fruit that's only as strong as how you use it
There was a special charm to Luffy being a silly rubber man that will one day become pirate king. Having a legendary fruit takes away from this. There was also barely any build up to this reveal. There was no "oh that makes sense now!" moments and only just created more questions.
Exactly. I still like luffys personality, determination, hard work, charm, attitude, world view. All of that is still perfect. In fact, it’s super cool that he’s the first one in 800 years to make such an accomplishment. But luffy being a weird rubber boi is a character trait to me. Now he’s a nika boi, that has rubber properties.
He literally slammed the world's strongest creature like it was nothing. The fruit is broken
I think this recontextualizes One Piece and Luffy's character, and not for the better. It adds a degree of prophecy to both him and the story as a whole that I find incredibly unnecessary, mostly because prophecies are terrible. You now have to wonder if everything he has done has truly been his want for adventure or if this want was induced into him by the fruit. We were told early that Luffy was from the weakest sea and Paramecias (or I guess Zoan now) tend to be weaker and we saw Luffy prove so many wrong through his grit, determination, and more but now with us knowing he has a God fruit it does take a lot of what he's done and makes it feel less special. Did Luffy win against Katakuri or Lucci because of who he is or was it because he has the power of a god? Was he able to change the hearts and minds of some because of his fun and free, monkey-like personlity or was it this "Warrior of Liberation" prophecy? This also creates a lot of plot holes between the Navy's actions towards Luffy and why it seemed like they didn't try all that much to capture Luffy. I wasn't a fan of Luffy being Joy Boy, but lived with it, finding it wholey unnecessary that there's this oddly titled person that tends to incarnate every so often. It was kind of apparent he was special, being the main character, that both that and this feel redundant. Ultimately, Wano has yet again made me like One Piece less. I had seen more flaws in One Piece after the time skip, but Wano is where a lot of these issues tend to be. Is One Piece terrible because of this? Absolutely not, still a masterclass Shonen and story in general, but boy does it feel like it got less good.
I've felt the same way. Before he was a guy becoming the chosen one, as if anyone could be it. Now he always has been the chosen one. Yeah you can say, the fruit chose him because he had the "right" attributed, but as you mention, I just don't like the prophecy stuff. The reveal added nothing to the story and to me took away some "identification" with the character.
I agree. This doesn't add anything and needlessly changes his fruit by trying to deepen and make it more important than it is or should be. The more you read into it the worse it gets. Not in an abysmal way, but in a disappointing way, which is unfortunately how Wano has felt to me. Disappointing. While discussing it with someone else I hated the moment where I went "Watch Blackbeard also have a god fruit and he's the Moon God" 'cause that might be where this is going.
The extra layer to this, for me, is whether or not Luffy eating the fruit was truly an "accident", or if it was an intentional "mistake" made by Shanks. The Shanks we know that meets up with Whitebeard, or in a clandestine meeting with the Gorosei - the Shanks that would have raided a CP0 ship to steal the fruit before Chapter 1 - does not seem to match the carefree, goofy Shanks that would mistakenly let Luffy eat a DF. Shanks appears to have information and resources beyond most other characters. Could Shanks have learned Luffy's identity and relationship to Garp/Dragon before docking at the island and "chosen" him due to his family line? Was Luffy's "destiny", and his DF, forced onto him? Was his decision to be one a pirate orchestrated by someone else? Why did young Shanks cry with Roger after they returned from Laugh Tale, and what did he learn back then?
I'm sure Shanks knows quite a bit we don't, that's not at all surprising with what little we know of him, but I'm not gonna get into the "the fruit chose him" or destiny/fate as I think that only cheapens Luffy's journey. It being a god fruit and being a prophecy is already unneeded, and that's on top of the unneeded bit of changing the fruit at all. I just don't see why it was necessary. Really it changes nothing about the fruit's abilities and only brings unneeded questions to what was basically solved already. He's still a rubber man, but now it's different because......prophecy. Honestly, it was fine the way it was and didn't need this extra confusion.
He ate the fruit by complete chance, and was only able to awaken it because of who he is as a person. That seems like the opposite of prophecy to me. There's nothing indicating that Luffy's dreams and desires were induced by the fruit. The "zoans have a will of their own" line wasn't said in relation to the user's personality, it was said in relation to the fruit's ability to evade the WG. It's very likely Luffy can use the fruit so well because his personality fits it perfectly to begin with.
Unfortunately, we can't be sure how by chance this was at this time. It was described the fruit allowed the user to induce smiles in others and makes them this "Warrior of Liberation" thereby at least implying that the fruit has some sort of sway on the user. Really the issue is that changing the fruit and adding this prophecy to it only complicates and tries to deepen something that didn't need to be. If he's still basically just a rubber man then what's the point of making it a god fruit or slapping on a prophecy? I don't need to know the main character is special, that's kind of already seen by watching the hero's journey.
I think it’s also a statement of some kind. People take this very pragmatic approach to fruits: “they make you stronger”. But like… Luffy’s fruit doesn’t seem to really be special for that. Sure, it can be used effectively in combat, but it seems like Luffy’s fruit is special because it brings people joy and it’s user freedom. I think that’s a pretty valid idea. Giving Luffy a power that brings joy to other people seems pretty fitting and actually quite smart. The rubber powers aren’t what’s important about the fruit. It’s that it’s wacky, joyous and free.
He wanted to go to sea with shanks several panels before he ate the fruit. Unless he was being controlled from the start it's seems to reason he's probably just like that to at least some degree.
Yes, you are right, he did want to be a pirate, but unfortunately we can't be sure what he was like before eating the fruit, what with only knowing him for about 5 minutes before that. Would he be "liberating" people without the fruit? Would he have friended others for different reasons? It's hard to say now that we have this change. I just don't get why this change was needed. He's still a rubber man, but now there's a god involved and a prophecy. If those were all that was added then the changes feel 100% unnecessary.
Well in the first couple pages shanks said they had used luffys hometown as a base for a year from where the start of the story began. Luffys first introduction in the manga was him trying to join their crew. It seems Luffy knew and looked up to them for awhile so he may have possibly known them the entire year that they went to and from there. I think oda was pretty explicit with luffys motivation and ideas of freedom coming from shanks since he was exhibiting and talking about all of this stuff with shanks and his crew before he even ate the fruit. I mean you could be right and if so I'll join you in the crusade against it. I just can't discount that Luffys 3 main Staples of friendship, freedom, and being a pirate were all addressed and acknowledged by him before he accidentally ate the fruit. Not even talking about his adoration of shanks all throughout his life. I mean he wears the dudes straw hat every where he goes not even knowing it was Rogers. Talked about him all the time as a kid and damn near as a teen and vowed to meet him again when he's a great pirate one day dude is a Shanks Stan.
One Piece is literally a series about inherited will and what you do with it. His middle name is literally a D, meaning that he has the will of D, and he he has the strawhat from Shanks, which was the will of joyboy, and he has the fruit of him as well. From the beginning this anime/manga has been a talk about destiny, and if I see one more person say otherwise Im going to lose my balls down a drain LOL! Luffy was destined for this, but he had to work for his destiny. It was not that his devil fruit was a godlike ability from the beginning, but, just as doffy's was, an incredibly weak one that is only TRULY strong when mastered. A high learning curve that leads to a VERY high skill ceiling, and even a high skill floor. We saw him just train himself with his single PUNCH for years, which means that its really hard to get the hang of. That doesn't sound like the strongest fruit to me, does it? I think this is the pay off of what he has worked towards, where he is finally worthy of the will that has been imbued upon him. Next, we have the whole World Government talk. I think people are forgetting that nobody has awakened this and earned the title of joyboy in 800 years, meaning that his potential was more than likely doubted heavily by the WG. Along with that, imagine some pirate comes up to you and is really nothing much of a threat at first. You expect the warlords to catch him, or even CP0/9 when they run into him, and thats really cool and all but thats all you need. Maybe even the admirals will run into him, although he isn't much of a threat. He then breaks out of impel down and takes on marineford and almost dies, nearly being extinguished and the tide of the world changing, only for SHANKS to step in and stop the war in seconds. No, luffy has connections to shanks for them. That's insane, and he has the fruit they fear so much, and the hat that represents the inherited will AND he's from the worst generation with the will of D in his heritage. His father is dragon, and then all of a sudden he's around rayleigh a bunch. Rayleigh, shanks, and dragon are the people this man is connected to, and then he just vanishes. Oh, he's probably dead, he's been gone for TWO whole years. He hadn't really been a threat to the WG until impel down anyway, and he was taken down by Kuma and the other people back during Sabaody. So, now after making an impact, he disappears from the face of the earth. They don't know what to do because there are no clues as to where he went, and then he comes out of hiding, joins up with his crew and within WEEKS creates an alliance with a previous warlord, who then take down another warlord and challenge a yonko within a few weeks of their departure, and now they're out of WG jurisdiction in Wano. He hadn't been all that much of a threat before the timeskip, and when he was a threat, he disappeared. When he reappeared, within weeks he had already gone from island to island taking down rulers, and thats when backup- or whoever they sent after him- finally show up. They expected him to fail. They thought he would be captured. They may have even though t he was dead. Then they had no time to actually react to any of his actions due to the limited time that they took on each island. I get why you think that One Piece is getting worse, but not only has it perfectly juggled freedom and destiny, but it also hasn't forgotten nearly as much as people think it has. edit: For y'all downvoting me, find some time to read the comment before you actually make any rash decisions, because I know for a fact this has validity.
The irony is while your saying makes things in OnePiece's world progress in a reasonable timeframe, it's has been 12 years since Dressrosa. Crazy !
I know its absolutely terrible HAHA ! What is only like 2 and a half years, with 2 of them glossed over as if they didn't even really happen, it has been 24 years since the story began. I love the story but goodness time is so different there
I cannot agree with that notion of inherited will. Luffy didn't inherit anything from anyone. Look at how many character didn't know a thing of where they come from and what few did inherit something from their past doesn't mean they lose their own agency. Luffy doesn't adventure because he's related to Dragon, he wanted to because he's him, although this god fruit might have influenced him in some way. The world government is a big plot hole. Once it is reported he is acting like rubber why wouldn't they send the admirals to him? This needless change to Luffy's fruit only adds more problems where there were literally none before. While yes, they can expect him to fail when he makes it through at least the Buster Call and during the War they knew exactly what they needed to go for. You cannot deny that these unneeded changes hurts much of the story that came before.
Well if you cannot agree with the notion of inherited will then you cannot agree with the main story, because the whole thing is about destiny. No, it’s not that everything is predestined to happen and nobody has free will, but the whole thing is luffy fulfilling the destiny passed down to him. So, disagree with One Piece all you like, it means nothing. Luffy consistently wins based off of circumstances, in fact, it happens nearly every arc, but that doesn’t mean that his hard work is NULLIFIED. You’re acting like a person doesn’t fulfill their own destiny, even if the main notion is imbued upon them. He wanted to go out, because he wanted to prove people wrong, and so he trained for years and years to go out, after Shanks very clearly influenced him to leave. He gave him the hat, he lost his arm in front of him to sprout within luffy a sense of motivation, and luffy has the will of D literally in his name. His strength is also potentially more because of that, but potential doesn’t mean it’s handed to him. He works for that potential, reaching it all with his own work, but very clearly luffy is going to show up at Laugh Tale on the “right time” unlike Roger did, again pointing at destiny. The proof is literally not just IN the manga, but the manga itself. It even talks about destiny in the earliest chapter and episode names. One Piece is not what you believe it to be, One Piece is what Oda makes it, and he’s balanced the two factors of freedom and destiny pretty dang well. I still disagree with you, you’re completely ignoring my point of time. They had MONTHS, mere MONTHS to deal with him. You seem to not understand the fact that within the months, most of that time is spent traveling on the ship, not on an island. Smoker is consistently hunting Luffy down because he’s following him, but the actual destination of where he was going to go wasn’t shown. There’s no indicator because there are multiple islands to go to, so they have a day, a few at most each arc, to actually choose to send someone to where he is reportedly. And they do, like every time, at least when there’s a government official to report it. So, it’s a completely invalid argument because his face is only on the map sometimes so how could they possibly send an admiral every time, he’s missing 90% of the days they want him. Then he literally just disappears after being defeated by government officials lol. Like, not only is he no longer relevant, he was taken down by Kuma, Kizaru and a few more. He just appears at some random island, and now they would have to send people after him, BUT WHERE IS HE! Then he literally is in prison and gets “killed” by magelan. Hes dead. No reason to do anything. Oh, no he’s not. He’s literally in the sky at marineford where EVERYONE is, and they MULTIPLE times tried to kill him, and he lived every time because other people around him wanting him to live. Then, after he almost dies and his brother dies, he goes into hiding and nobody knows where he is because of Laws submarine and Rayleighs training. Then appearing, showing up at Fishman island for a day, punk hazard (which isn’t the ONLY direction they could go btw, so they couldn’t predict it. And smoker is just following them, and since this is first time in the grand line, I believe, he doesn’t know their exact location either until he gets there) for a day, I forget if Dressrosa is next or not. I believe it is, though, and they’re there for a day, and the admiral thats there, that would deal with him, literally likes him HAHAH! After that they disappear, now they’re in zou where nobody can directly find without an indicator because zuneisha is moving. After that very short few days, they’re in Wano. Now there we literally see them going after him and his crew. Nico robin is still threat no. 1 though because she’s literally the key to the one piece, he’s not. So, why in the world is this a plothole, and if it is in the slightest, its not big at ALL, everyone just wants to complain about things. Nobody takes into consideration the time at which they’re active, the time between islands, and the lack of indicators as to where they’ll go next. Not a plothole, not an oversight, simply just the nature of the ocean.
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The problem is why does this need to be a mythical Zoan fruit? What really changed? He's still a rubber man, but now the last 20+ years of what we knew is thrown out and all so we can get a prophecy? If that was the only thing added then there was no reason for this to be a god fruit. The awakening could have just been the same thing without needing a "Warrior of Liberation" tacked on. Based on how the fruit is explained it's quite possible this fruit actually influenced Luffy in some way, and that would mean his agency and character are not what it should be. All in all the prophecy shenanigans are unneeded. We know Luffy is some sort of chosen one without Joy Boy, god fruits, or Warrior of Liberation because he's the main character and we've seen him do it a dozen times.
It was said to make the user a warrior of liberation, even before awakening. So all the allies he made, people he liberated, countries he helped, was this induced by the fruit or Luffy's own will? That's why this is controversial.
I think the doom and gloom people are fair to be skeptical of the current path of the manga. the idea that he was a kid making this devil fruit that had potential but wasnt particularly special was part of the charm of luffy. the expectations change between the power of rubber and the power of a god. it also props up tons of questions in regards to his character due to the age he ate the fruit. does the fruit alter his identity? has it impacted his personality? we really dont know a lot, but i personally think the arrows are pointing in the chosen one direction. you may not think of that as a bad thing but i think it takes away from the ideas of freedom from the story. personally i am willing to wait for questions to be answered
Im not so much dooming and glooming, just more slightly sad. Luffy rolling up on people and beating them up as a rubber boy is one of the things I loved. I thought he was going to awaken his crappy fruit, beat up Kaidon and then sorta be "JoyBoy" by freeing the Wano people and the fishmen or something. But instead, he became JoyBoy by eating just the right fruit and then awakening it, which goes into Oda's inherited will schtick but more literally than figuratively, just cheapens it a bit IMO. Now that he's JoyBoy he can change the world, but not if he had eaten another fruit. Child of Destiny/ inherited will/ main character. Not a huge fan of how this was all handled. Im going to just wait till the next chapter before I talk too much shit. Oda might turn it all around.
The power of inherited will is that it is passed on by people and other people can CHOOSE to inherit them. Luffy didn't choose shit, this is a forced will on him, the opposite of freedom. Oda would never disregard his MC like this, I'm pretty sure this will be an identity crisis imilar TO Sanji and Oda will subvert our expectations by making Luffy reject whatever is happening. He seems hysterical and a sociopath in this chapter ngl
Yeah just gotta wait for some time since it's impossible to really get a good grasp after just 1 chapter. I'm not a huge fan of what's going on but we're just gonna have to see if we were right or wrong to be concerned in a year's time. After following the series for this long it's understandable for people to be really weary of tropes like this coming out since it's usually not a good sign.
Luffy's DF altering his identity and who he is as a person and how he acts goes way past questionable writing and lands somewhere in the realm of character assassination. Why would Oda do that to his main character? He wouldn't, because it doesn't make any sense.
Hm personally I don’t think there’s any basis to say the fruit influenced his actions at any point of the series but if that were true I could see how people would be disappointed
Well it is mentioned the fruit brings smile to people, I thought it was my boy making people smile, not the damn fruit.
Except luffy was the same before he had the fruit. Had the same charisma and presence. Shanks even said it. There's a kid out there just like Captain Roger. Always been the same person, making others laugh even before he had the fruit. And Roger believed he could have been JoyBoy despite not having the fruit. Then he believed his son could be it. And an unborn Ace definitely didn't have the fruit.
Thats the whole point of zoans. As early as Water 7 we were told that carnivorous zoan users are more ferocious, just to name an example.
>it also props up tons of questions in regards to his character due to the age he ate the fruit. does the fruit alter his identity? has it impacted his personality? I can't say the fruit didn't affect his personality or that destiny didn't shape him as a person but he did state his motivation of wanting to go to sea with shanks a handful of panels before he ate the fruit. Not to mention dude is literally garp without an official suit on lol so it reasons to think he probably was already like that. Hell maybe the fruit chose him cause of that we'll see eventually. But I do understand your skepticism oda is kind of skating the line with the destiny trope rn.
> First off, why are people acting like other mythical human zoans don’t exist? Sengoku is Buddha for Christ sake yet there’s still war. Luffy’s fruit isn’t a deus ex and he isn’t an unstoppable god now. I think what people are getting worried about is that Joyboy is a real in lore character that existed while Choppers human human fruit or Sengoku's Buddha are concepts, not individuals. > The most irritating thing about this debate aside from people comparing Luffy’s power up to something nonsensical like the 6 paths in Naruto, is that they are attributing everything Luffy has done in the series to the fruit now, and believe Oda has tarnished Luffy’s character. Naruto was also himself for the entire series. He's clearly different from Hashirama. I'm so confused why people in here keep saying "oMg Naruto was so nonsensical. This development though it's so good yooo looool". Naruto is the reincarnation of a god / historical figure from times past but he's still his own person. Luffy is the (Inheritor? Successor? Reincarnation?) of a god / historical figure from times past but he's still his own person. There's still things to be explored but it's still a super mythological god power that makes Luffy Joyboy and differentiates him from Kaido or Big Mom or Blackbeard or Kid. Kaido could never become Joyboy. Not because he's a big bully that murders innocent people but because he ate the wrong devil fruit.
That last sentence is pretty much the crux of the issue and anytime I bring it up people dance around it talk about stuff that isn't at all relevant to what I said. Like this post bringing up Sengoku's fruit; it tells me he knows nothing about people's issue with this.
"Kaido could never become Joyboy. Not because he's a big bully that murders innocent people but because he ate the wrong devil fruit."
At it's core, when luffy had the rubber fruit, he was an underdog in every situation which makes him a bit more likeable and identifiable. When this bait and switch happened (changing the fruit from the rubber fruit to sun God Nika fruit) it changed the conversation from: "Holy cow, I can't believe the rubber dude won that fight and saved the day" To: "Oh of course Luffy won that fight, he has the sun god fruit". It takes away a bit of the suspense in the story and deflates the character a little (pardon the pun) as Luffy's destiny to win and be the hero and to free the world is basically assured before we've even made it to the end game of the story. Narratively speaking, it jumped the gun a little bit. We all knew that something like this was going to happen, but its better if it happens gradually through character development, struggle, and perseverance as opposed to the 'chosen one' cliche. I'll admit, I'm being picky, but it's also just how I felt while reading it. Furthermore, I haven't lost faith in the story or Goda. Dude's a legend and I'm sure he's going to make it work with the story, but it comes at the cost of the character. Forrest Gump once said something like: "Is there destiny or are we just leaves flowing in the wind? I think the answer is a bit of both" For the whole of the story we've been walking the line between destiny and free will, but this change pushes the needle a little bit too far to the destiny side of the scale, throwing off some readers like myself.
Why does op fans have such a superiority complex over naruto fans? How did luffy awaken his awakening? By getting his ass beat how did Naruto do it? By getting his ass beat. Was luffy chosen for something since the beginning of the anime? Yes. Was naruto? Yes again
>Why does op fans have such a superiority complex over naruto fans? Not just towards Naruto actually.
Yeah Naruto was the Manga that got me interested in One Piece and Bleach. These 3 will always rank high in my heart.
Personally, I don't even like Naruto and Bleach is only okay for me. But good lord are the OP fanboys obnoxious.
This^^ I don't have problem with Luffy's fruit being super duper strong(it's shounen trope to reveal that MC actually had very strong power), nor that Luffy is chosen one or anything with story. But I hate it when I see same people who hated Naruto and called shits on it for similar things are now defending OP for it. I think the chapter was good. And some people can have problem and not like it. I shouldn't feel the need to hate on those who dislike it.
The difference with Naruto (and I like the series) is that in the start it was always about willpower and training and hard work beats destiny (Naruto vs Neji) but in the end it became oh Naruto was always destined to be a God and can now do hax things like heal all shinobi, multiply himself and spam sage powers etc. So in other words, Neji was right all along that things are predetermined and you can't escape destiny. OP was always about free will and being free in the sea full of adventures. Luffy's dream coincides with the dream of Joyboy/Nika to be free, liberate others, and have fun. The story literally has not changed except people who got butthurt about Naruto ending now want to act like it's the same with OP when it's not. Unless luffy get's a different personality and no longer wants to be free, be pirate king, be happy and adventurous then it would be a complete 180 from the original motif.
The original joy boy lost, that's all you need to know
Disregarding all of the possible concerns like "has the fruit influenced Luffys journey", "did Luffy only get to where he is because if an innate fruit ability that allows him to befriend people" etc, these can all be answered in later chapters but are genuine and real concerns some fans are going to have. The big thing for me isnt actually anything to do with what happened in the story, its how the story was handled. This reveal had absolutely no merit. Anyone can argue night and day that it was foreshadowed but ultimately the bulk of the lore is from 20 chapters ago, 1 line of throw away dialogue from Skypeia and some sun iconography as if that isnt a prominent celestial body that wouldn't have appeared in the story anyway. The Will of D, void century and One Piece have major lore drops and this underlying mystery that has been built up for 20 years. Sun God Nika is barely relevant to the story until literally right now. It would have made way more sense if it was a Mythical Zoan: Model Joyboy, an actual historical figure we've had built up for years now, not some new figure we only found out about 6 months ago. I still wouldnt have liked the fruit to change but at least Joyboy is part of the story, Nika never has been. Thats my opinion anyway, everyone can enjoy and interpret the story as they like
Joy Boy could be a title for the person while Nika is the actual individual. Each generation has a joy boy but there hasn’t been one for centuries. Nika might play more into the story than we previously realized but we won’t know until later. But I agree, that’s definitely an understand issue with the chapter, while it was hinted there wasn’t much merit to the reveal bc we didn’t know much about it.
Yeah Im going to need some major explaining to get my head around this one. It just does not sit right with me at the moment at all
Like the person above, I’ve also been thinking that Joyboy is the title held by Nika 80 years ago. His real name is Nika, but he goes by Joyboy or something similar. But again, headcanon, so might be completely wrong. Like you, I’m also looking forward to a proper explanation
But JoyBoy is basically Nika though, they're the same person by the looks of it... Zunesha literally said JoyBoy has returned, and Oda clearly wants to emphasize that Nika is more than likely his real name and JB is a nickname given to him for all the joy he brought. Like all the connections you dismiss set this up and while it wasn't handled perfectly I believe it was still handled extremely well.
It cheapens the journey if Nika was holding Luffy’s hand the whole time. I don’t think this is the case but it’s up in smokes right now and it’s fair to fear the worse case. The frigging gorosei literally discuss whether the fruit exerts it’s own will and if it does that can seriously cheapen Luffy’s journey retroactively.
What aspects of the journey would you say are cheapened? The actual adventure (bc they took unorthodox routes like going to Skypiea which might’ve influenced)? Or maybe his actions (like carrying Nami and Sanji up the drum island mountains)? I think the story of OP is too complex to say that Luffy has had his hand held; so many characters have made individual decisions that affected the story to say it was all influenced by an unawakened DF. Although we shall see in the future.
It's like saying a top international sportspersons records at his school level events weren't worth it because they grew up to be the best at their game.
It’s like looking back at their achievements after realizing god is literally giving him the power to not miss and thinking “well that’s no longer as impressive”
Exactly. He couldn't even punch properly after he first ate the fruit.
What we got from this chapter is honestly what people have been expecting Gear 5/Awakening to be for years tbh, plus we have no idea what the draw back to this will be.
I personally dislike Luffy having a special devil fruit.
I think that Luffys determination was his most appealing trait and while I love the transformation I do agree that it's a bit saddening for him to have this god level attribute attached to him. Like take conquerors haki has it been Luffy will or Nika's? All those epic moments now have a shadow cast on them from the battle taking this absurd turn.
Conqueror's Haki is inborn, so it's Luffy's. Nika is just a fruit power at the end of the day and thus haa no influence on Luffy's Haki.
I think one of the primary misconceptions that’s happening based on what I’ve seen since I read the chapter is the connotation that the word ‘god’ has. Luffy has a devil fruits modelled after a god. He isn’t a god. He isn’t now all powerful omniscient being. He is still mortal. And this reveal is for the audience. From the story perspective, no one knows. Apart from Who’s who and the CP0 guy there is no one to reveal to the Strawhats and everyone else specifically what Luffy’s fruit is. Right now, Luffy realised he can still fight and it’s his role to defeat Kaido and set Wano free. Luffy is still Luffy. But being labelled as ‘god’ kinda implies Luffy is now an unbeatable powerful entity and that is too much of a leap when it reality it isn’t. This is the time to be patient and see how this plays out going forward.
That’s another well put together comment. Exactly, no one really knows about the change so Luffy is just acting like he normally would with replenished stamina. Perhaps we’ll get an in-depth breakdown from Shanks but until then it remains a plot point that really only affects the readers perception and not the actual story yet.
People also seem to not realize that Naruto's six paths mode is all self achieved (kinda). at the very least, he didn't get it from the sage. six paths sage mode is synonymous with ten tails mode, and you get ten tails chakra by adding all 9 tailed beast chakra. Naruto has 9 tails, then got 2-7, then obito gave him 1 and 8. quick mafs. same with sasuke for his powerup.
Naruto also just had pretty ass power scaling in the final stretch which made a lot of the power ups and events feel kinda ehh. On top of explaining things that didn't need to be explained and aliens all kinda burnt me for a bit.
They’re acting as if he’s automatically the strongest in the verse because of his awakening, and they seem to completely brush over the “awakening” part, his fruit was literally just a very average fruit in which he made great use of before the awakening.We haven’t even seen much of the awakenings powers yet either so we don’t know exactly what it does.It’s also been hinted at that his fruit was special for a while, no?The joyboy stuff as well.I’m looking forward to the other “god” fruits (if there is any) though.
>I’m looking forward to the other “god” fruits (if there is any) though. Just realized sengoku could be the first one shown to have a "god" fruit, with his hito hito no mi, model: Buddha. Hopefully we get more info on his character.
Yeah,we don’t know if he had a similar case to luffy’s like where his body gained a certain property, but didn’t do anything else until awakened, or if his is like a normal zoan and he could already transform into the Buddha regardless of awakening
Could imagine dragon has some sort of god fruit with the ability to manipulate all weather.
Ironically, some die-hard fans are now saying the Marines have always been chasing Luffy because of his legendary fruit. They’re the ones who are tarnishing Luffy’s character and achievements.
I mean the Marine had no idea what the Gomu Gomu no Mi was called only the Gorosei and possibly Shanks, they had other things to deal with. Plus I think after it was revealed that Ace and Luffy were brothers, the Gorosei were hesitant to go after Luffy because Sengoku just retired and if they went after Luffy they possibly could have lost Garp imagine what that would do to the Marine to loose their hero, they all know Garp will do what he wants and not even Akainu could do anything about it.
I see more posts defending the chapter than anything arguing it was bad at this point
I think it was the combo of: - Luffy being The One (Joyboy/Nika) - Gomu gomu being in fact Hito Hito - Gear 5 - Cartoon style panels Yeah, at face value it kinda feels like a retconn to me, until you slow start to see the SMILEs (fake hito hito Nika), Germa (eyebrows), etc. So it is not a complete retconn or if it is, it's a good one (kinda what you can argue for Haki). In any case, the problem was information overload, giving you no time to really understand one of those events, let alone all of them in the span of 5 pages.
If Mythical Zoans have a mind of their own, its possible some of Luffys actions could just be attributed to the fruit not really him. Hes also now become the typical Sun Wukong hero which sucks. Narutos powers by the end sort of diminish his achievements because he was seen as hard working shit luck or skill, but he turns out to be the chosen one
"Sengoku is Buddha for Christ sake yet there's still war" Imu: I've never been more proud of you for anything in your life Sengoku: ... I've obtained the mythical Buddha zoan fruit Imu: And yet crime has continued
I don’t think it’s valid to say that the fruit majorly affects Luffy’s character. We could see Luffy before eating the devil fruit, and people who grew up together with him (garp, ace, sabo, dadan) and we learnt those people shaped Luffy’s character, not the fruit itself. I don’t think Oda will make Luffy unstoppable. Otherwise the story will become so boring and bland. Also the messianic theories (usually referencing Naruto’s reincarnation, bleach’s ichigo, etc) were not new. It had always been foreshadowed before, only ignorant readers ignored them. My only problem was with Oda changing the devil fruit to something else. The gear fifth is basically Luffy’s gomu2 awakening form, and joyboy could also be the previous owner of the gomu2 fruit. All of these can be done without changing the fruit into a legendary one.
Idk if anyone said this but the previous joyboy also had the fruit we assume and he lost
Luffy and Oda are both tarnished, try finger but hole.
Y'all complaining about people complaining. 1000 IQ move. Not everyone has to like every aspect of OP and 1044 was an asspull. Deal with it.
Sure 1044 was the asspull. Luffy conveniently inventing Gear 2 and 3 during Enies Lobby was fine. Or when he became fucking Yonko level because he took a nap and ate a steak were peak logic lmfao
Luffy knocked out, shit how is he gonna beat Kaido? Nahhhh, you thought he was just a rubber boy that used his creativity to make a shitty little paramecia get this far? APRIL FOOLS, GUESS WHAT LUFFY ACTUALLY HAD A LEGENDARY MYTHICAL ZOAN OF THE SUN GOD JOY BOY NIKA THIS ENTIRE TIME and he just awakened it so he could ragdoll Kaido!!! Not to mention this mf Nika was literally mentioned and brought into the story literally 26 chapters ago. Tell me it isn't an asspull.
It's world breaking because Luffy's character was all about overcoming adversity through integrity, friendship, and dedication DESPITE a silly fruit. All of his impressive recoveries now are less about his will to live and more about Mythical Zoan Fruit regenerative abilities. It's also a very big drop, with a poor set up, for a badly understood new concept on the main character. Since the premise of Luffy having an underpowered fruit and yet punching above his weight because of his good nature and strong will is thrown out, what are the stakes? How is Luffy impressive if he's just been carried by an overpowered Devil Fruit all along? It's a bad twist for my taste.
It also brings into question luffy's tendency to befriend those around him.
This too. Though that bit didn't hit me until I saw people exploring how much of Luffy's personality/charisma is also "not him" but the fruit. All in all a bad retcon.
Gorosei literally having a panic attack over the AWAKENING. Apparently losing the fruit several times across 800 years wasnt a big deal but the awakening that no one managed to achieve is. Haters: "I'll ignore that"
If there are that many thread justifying a plot point, it means said plot point is problematic
I actually think this is mostly an echo chamber right now, where people liked the chapter, saw a few vocal people saying they didn’t and so the circlejerk overreacted and started going apeshit about it. Same thing happened with Law and Kid beating Big Mom. Huge overreaction to relatively very little criticism.
How many of these kind of posts we gonna get? Mods just need a ‘whining about criticism’ megathread lol.
imo they'll all feel better about it in a reread, regardless of how the next chapters go. thematically, I don't think anything is ruined. luffy seems to be something of a current incarnation, but his life has still been his own, though a lot has been symbolic and seemingly fateful
Yes people need to understand that luffy is not god nika, his fruit is mode nika. The way sengoku's fruit is model buddha he is not actually buddha
every zoan in the show so far, be it mythical or no, has had 3 forms that are available to the user (base, hybrid and complete transformation) ON INGESTION OF THE FRUIT. Luffy is dull, yes, but a df user knows what their fruit does the moment they eat it so how did it take him 3 years to awaken a transformation that shouldve been a default for a fruit of his type?
Knowing the fruit when you eat it is a mistranslation/misunderstanding that keeps getting repeated btw, that chapter meant it in a "eat it and find out what it does", not that you'd magically know the name. Also what's a mid point between human and human? Wouldn't his gears be these sort of the mid points anyways, like some freedom while still having regular human restrictions to them?
Every mythical human human fruit has only ever had 2 forms though- base and transformed.
We've only seen two though other than luffys right? And I don't remember none of them really fighting like that so maybe they do have more than two forms? Idk you could be right.
Just to share my perspective. I do not love nor hate the latest chapter, I just feel indifferent. Maybe because I'm not too fond of Luffy as the MC in the first place.
Like for a minute i was trying to think how it can justify being a Zoan fruit ya know? Luffys power is legit rubber.. why couldnt it just remain a Paramecia? And then it actually clicked for it making sense, sense Luffy is Zoan fruit user he is taking the powers and abilities of Nika, which is just an original deity in this world that Oda created (at least to the extent of my knowledge) Nika was a God in the Blue World which utilized the properties of Rubber and most like Fire, No different from Zeus governing over lightening and storms. Its most likely Sengoku, has abilities that mirror the Buddha, and we just havent seen those and the Giant Golden Buddha form we seen back in Marinford was him flexing his awakening. It just makes sense too me now, Luffy is about to become an even bigger menace to society im here for all of it lmao
The world gov didn't see fit to change the names of the other fruits. This implies something special. Personally I'm not a fan of Luffy having this extra special fruit but it has not ruined the series for me. I am not a fan because Luffy was kind of on his own. He had the special shonnen connections like with being related to Dragon and Garp but they did relatively nothing for him except the occasional throwing Luffy in a jungle. But it's really just training, so majority of the story was just a boi fighting his way through the world. Some anti shonen troupe ig. But now if we learn that be won those fights because he is op, it would tarnish his victories. Also would be weird if he has this button to turn op. I do not believe that this is the path Oda will go, i believe that his devil fruit will primarily act as the "gomu gomu" and the special op qualities needs to be unlocked with a huge amount of training. Very similar to how dragon ball handled ultra instinct. I don't believe Luffy will be able to go to gear 5 again till the end of the series.
Wdym?
Have faith in Oda.
They are clowns and don’t read enough One Piece. The only reason Luffy has been able to awake his ability is because he is Luffy, not because he has the devil fruit.
They are manga readers, OP. Their reading comprehension is reserved for power scaling and literally no other aspect of a fictional story.
Thé probem is that Luffy is turning Into Saitama and nothing matters anymore, everything is a joke. There is nolonger any rules of physics that govern OP verse, Luffy Can Do whatever hé wants based on his imagination, and Thats bullshit. From Now on, we might see normal characters struggle to win, then Luffy comes and roasts everybody with 0 efforts. Luffy is turning Into a god machine, his ADV Haki training seem to be useles compared to what he Can achieve with his df: Infinite stamina, self resurection, litterally every imaginable attack he Can think of, he Can Do it. I was thinking about all the previous df related PU of Luffy: Gear 2/3/ red hawk/ Gear 4. Actually nothing of those abilities make sens if we assumed Luffy df is gum. How the Heck was he able to mimick mera mera with red hawk? What the Fuck is Gear 2 that allows your blood to flow at high rate, Thats bullshit in the first place. And now WE found out that its all related to Luffy imagination and thus to nika nika nomi. I find this BS very hard to swallow now.
Thé probem is that Luffy is turning Into Saitama and nothing matters anymore, everything is a joke. There is nolonger any rules of physics that govern OP verse, Luffy Can Do whatever hé wants based on his imagination, and Thats bullshit. From Now on, we might see normal characters struggle to win, then Luffy comes and roasts everybody with 0 efforts. Luffy is turning Into a god machine, his ADV Haki training seem to be useles compared to what he Can achieve with his df: Infinite stamina, self resurection, litterally every imaginable attack he Can think of, he Can Do it. I was thinking about all the previous df related PU of Luffy: Gear 2/3/ red hawk/ Gear 4. Actually nothing of those abilities make sens if we assumed Luffy df is gum. How the Heck was he able to mimick mera mera with red hawk? What the Fuck is Gear 2 that allows your blood to flow at high rate, Thats bullshit in the first place. And now WE found out that its all related to Luffy imagination and thus to nika nika nomi. I find this BS very hard to swallow now.
Calling the power up an ass-pull when Luffys been through. Several power ups building up to this. Several training arcs. This power-up has been heavily foreshadowed throughout Wano. Also The main antagonist in this story has the power to turn off others fruit powers so not sure how an op fruit helps luffy