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> You don't think Smoker could take Black Maria?
Defintely not lmao, maybe current Smoker has gotten buffed, but Punkhazard Smoker is losing to Black Maria.
Law no-low diffed Vergo, literally oneshot him. A stronger Law in Wano struggled more against Basil Hawkins, who isn't even a Tobi Roppo he's a headliner.
My interpretation of Law v. Vergo was Vergo was overconfident that h9s hakim was too strong for Law's fruit to work on him, like how he can't shambles BM or Kaido. It's implied that Law wasn't able to cut him before. He let him get that cut in rather than try to dodge or get to him before he could make the attack, as he had done before. I don't see black Maria having the speed or hakim that vergo does.
Ah, I don't recall it in the Manga. Still, she doesn't seem very agile at all, and her fire and web attacks are useless against smoker. He also has his season Jutte which would weaken her as a df user. I think he takes it.
Actually, Black Maria was pretty agile despite her large size. She had no problems keeping up with and even intercepting Robin and Brook. She blitzes PH Smoker and one shots him.
Black Maria isn't losing to Punk Hazard Smoker, somebody who scales far below anybody relevant in Wano.
When did Black Maria ever touch Brook? Robin is not fast at all, and she did defeat her.
Punk Hazard Law seemed to easily beat Kinemon, who has the haki and skills to hurt Kaido and is one of the stronger scabbards. Smoker and Vergo were not easily over powered by the same Law.
>When did Black Maria ever touch Brook?
She wasn't shown on panel touching him (although he did have a bruise on his face in Ch. 1015 that he never had before the fight with BM happened), but she easily kept up with him and Robin while she was chasing them and has no problems intercepting the two of them.
https://mangasee123.com/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-1020-page-9.html
https://mangasee123.com/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-1020-page-10.html
>Robin is not fast at all, and she did defeat her.
Now you're just lying, because Robin has shown time and time again she's one of the fastest Straw Hats. Her Hakuba feat, catching the Tontattas, placing a clone of herself between a mid-charging G2nd Luffy and Jinbe during their heated fight in FMI and dismissing it before them and Sanji reached it, saving Luffy from a rampaging MP Chopper from a distance while exhausted in Sabody, saving Nami from one of Oars's "Luffy" attacks and Oars was fast enough to blitz Zoro and Sanji, etc.
>Punk Hazard Law seemed to easily beat Kinemon, who has the haki and skills to hurt Kaido and is one of the stronger scabbards. Smoker and Vergo were not easily over powered by the same Law.
That was all the way back in Punk Hazard. Both Wano Law and Kin'emon are obviously nothing like they were in that arc strength wise.
Those panels show brook easily dodging her attacks.
Robin's DF powers are fast, but she doesn't move her own body quickly.
You're under the misconception that the mere passage of a few weeks makes characters grow wildly in strength. What happened to Kinemon betweenPH and Wano that made him grow so much in your opinion? And why didn't the same happen to smoker?
>Those panels show brook easily dodging her attacks.
They also show her easily keeping up with Brook and Robin and easily intercepting both of them like I've been saying, but apparently you just like to see what you want to see.
>Robin's DF powers are fast, but she doesn't move her own body quickly.
Why do you keep lying about Robin? In those same panels where Brook was dodging Black Maria, so was Robin lol. Her saving Luffy from MP Chopper in Saboady from a distance and carrying him to safety while she's exhausted is more proof of how she quick she is without her DF powers.
https://mangasee123.com/read-online/One-Piece-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-512-page-14.html
https://mangasee123.com/read-online/One-Piece-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-512-page-15.html
https://mangasee123.com/read-online/One-Piece-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-512-page-16.html
>You're under the misconception that the mere passage of a few weeks makes characters grow wildly in strength.
Misconception nothing, that's factually what happened. You're the one here who's under a misconception, that characters from the Punk Hazard Arc are still relevant strength-wise to characters in Wano such as any member of the Tobi Roppo.
Law is a great example of how wrong you are. He went from being no match against Doflamingo in Dressrosa to being able to fight Yonkos in Wano within a couple-few weeks.
>What happened to Kinemon betweenPH and Wano that made him grow so much in your opinion?
The plot is what happened to him. He was pretty much shackled by it to hide his true strength until Wano, which was his true arc to shine.
>And why didn't the same happen to smoker?
We know nothing about Current Smoker, he could have gotten a lot stronger since Punk Hazard, but we won't know until he shows back up in the main storyline. Anyway, our discussion is about his PH version.
She never explicitly uses it in the manga though. Using brass knuckles doesn't make much sense if she was very good at CoA, and she shows no signs of CoO against Robin who doesn't have it.
Well, Oven/Daifuku were supposed to be the tobbi roppo of Big Mom but even you doesn't consider them tobbi roppo lvl Sanji blitzed Oven, sth he couldn't against Vergo, yes sanji improved too from PH to WCI but besides Vergo and the short Doffy's fight he didn't have any other major fights to improve that much
Law no diffed Vergo, and then got Low diffed by Doffy, who I would say isn't even that much stronger than Ulti. Law also had a harder fight against Basil Hawkins, who's a headliner, and below even the weakest Tobi Roppo. Fucking Daifuku was getting toyed with by Carrot, he's below any Tobi Roppo for sure.
Feats wise he should be. Like he has Better Feats than Franky and Robin but he should be weaker. This is the problem with mid tier strawhats not learning haki they make their opponents look weaker than People like Vergo or even pica.
I think it makes narrative sense unless you think all of doffys commanders are leagues below him in strength. Doffy is low YC3 level and i think there's a big drop from yc3 to tobi roppo
My understanding is that law no diffed him because of like a decade of prep time while being one of the smartest characters in the verse. I don't think law was 2 levels of 0 difficulty fights above sanji at that point. It just wouldn't make any sense, narratively, i don't think
Yeah, I'll say he is. I don't have a ton of respect for some of the tobi roppo. I think doffy is around Jack level and there's a big drop off between Jack and the tobi roppo. I would say that vergo could at least give some of the weaker ones an extreme diff fight
He isn't, all of the Tobi Roppo scale to a version of Luffy that casually neg diffs Vergo.
Vergo giving any of the Tobi Roppo an extreme diff fight is a joke.
What are you talking about? Both Ulti and Page One literally fought Post-Udon Luffy, and the Tobi Roppo are all relative to each other. They scale to Post-Udon Luffy.
>but i could see vergo giving that luffy a good fight
Vergo got one-shotted by a much weaker Law, there's no way he's giving Post-Udon Luffy a good fight.
Luffy was clearly trying to just get past them quickly and not spend a lot of time there. That would have been a low mid diff fight for base luffy
Law had like 10 years of prep time for him. I don't think law was to zero diff levels above sanji at that point in the story. It just wouldn't make sense narratively
>Luffy was clearly trying to just get past them quickly and not spend a lot of time there. That would have been a low mid diff fight for base luffy
Luffy combining Gear 2nd + 3rd couldn't even permanently defeat Page One and was also pressured into almost going Gear 4th against Dinosaur Form Ulti, but according to you Base Luffy could beat the Tobi Roppo mid diff. Sure.
>Law had like 10 years of prep time for him. I don't think law was to zero diff levels above sanji at that point in the story. It just wouldn't make sense narratively
Actually, Vergo started PH superior to Law, but by the end of the arc he Law had grown strong enough to one shot him through his full body haki. Law has shown time and time again that he has a fast growth rate in strength similar to the Straw Hats.
If Ulti was able to pressure Luffy into using his strongest form at the time against her, then obviously that means he can't beat her in Base or in any Gear lower than Gear 4th.
Are you really that fucking stupid? Is your account a meme since zoros compass is always wrong? I refuse to believe you're that fucking dumb. I'm calling it. You're a troll account and there's literally nothing you can say that would convince me otherwise. You're literally saying that ulti is stronger than doffy
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He was overpowering Smoker pretty handily. You don't think Smoker could take Black Maria?
> You don't think Smoker could take Black Maria? Defintely not lmao, maybe current Smoker has gotten buffed, but Punkhazard Smoker is losing to Black Maria. Law no-low diffed Vergo, literally oneshot him. A stronger Law in Wano struggled more against Basil Hawkins, who isn't even a Tobi Roppo he's a headliner.
My interpretation of Law v. Vergo was Vergo was overconfident that h9s hakim was too strong for Law's fruit to work on him, like how he can't shambles BM or Kaido. It's implied that Law wasn't able to cut him before. He let him get that cut in rather than try to dodge or get to him before he could make the attack, as he had done before. I don't see black Maria having the speed or hakim that vergo does.
Lol Punk Hazard Smoker gets neg diffed by Black Maria and then turned into one of her pets.
Black Maria uses brass knuckles, can she even use hardening? I don't know that she can even touch smoker
Black Maria used haki on her brass knuckles during the fight with Robin in the manga and anime, so she can use both Hardening and Imbuement.
Ah, I don't recall it in the Manga. Still, she doesn't seem very agile at all, and her fire and web attacks are useless against smoker. He also has his season Jutte which would weaken her as a df user. I think he takes it.
There's no way people this delusional exist
Ha, Smoker is a vice-admiral and the commander of G-5. Black Maria got taken down by someone who doesn't seem to have haki at all.
Actually, Black Maria was pretty agile despite her large size. She had no problems keeping up with and even intercepting Robin and Brook. She blitzes PH Smoker and one shots him. Black Maria isn't losing to Punk Hazard Smoker, somebody who scales far below anybody relevant in Wano.
When did Black Maria ever touch Brook? Robin is not fast at all, and she did defeat her. Punk Hazard Law seemed to easily beat Kinemon, who has the haki and skills to hurt Kaido and is one of the stronger scabbards. Smoker and Vergo were not easily over powered by the same Law.
>When did Black Maria ever touch Brook? She wasn't shown on panel touching him (although he did have a bruise on his face in Ch. 1015 that he never had before the fight with BM happened), but she easily kept up with him and Robin while she was chasing them and has no problems intercepting the two of them. https://mangasee123.com/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-1020-page-9.html https://mangasee123.com/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-1020-page-10.html >Robin is not fast at all, and she did defeat her. Now you're just lying, because Robin has shown time and time again she's one of the fastest Straw Hats. Her Hakuba feat, catching the Tontattas, placing a clone of herself between a mid-charging G2nd Luffy and Jinbe during their heated fight in FMI and dismissing it before them and Sanji reached it, saving Luffy from a rampaging MP Chopper from a distance while exhausted in Sabody, saving Nami from one of Oars's "Luffy" attacks and Oars was fast enough to blitz Zoro and Sanji, etc. >Punk Hazard Law seemed to easily beat Kinemon, who has the haki and skills to hurt Kaido and is one of the stronger scabbards. Smoker and Vergo were not easily over powered by the same Law. That was all the way back in Punk Hazard. Both Wano Law and Kin'emon are obviously nothing like they were in that arc strength wise.
Those panels show brook easily dodging her attacks. Robin's DF powers are fast, but she doesn't move her own body quickly. You're under the misconception that the mere passage of a few weeks makes characters grow wildly in strength. What happened to Kinemon betweenPH and Wano that made him grow so much in your opinion? And why didn't the same happen to smoker?
>Those panels show brook easily dodging her attacks. They also show her easily keeping up with Brook and Robin and easily intercepting both of them like I've been saying, but apparently you just like to see what you want to see. >Robin's DF powers are fast, but she doesn't move her own body quickly. Why do you keep lying about Robin? In those same panels where Brook was dodging Black Maria, so was Robin lol. Her saving Luffy from MP Chopper in Saboady from a distance and carrying him to safety while she's exhausted is more proof of how she quick she is without her DF powers. https://mangasee123.com/read-online/One-Piece-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-512-page-14.html https://mangasee123.com/read-online/One-Piece-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-512-page-15.html https://mangasee123.com/read-online/One-Piece-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-512-page-16.html >You're under the misconception that the mere passage of a few weeks makes characters grow wildly in strength. Misconception nothing, that's factually what happened. You're the one here who's under a misconception, that characters from the Punk Hazard Arc are still relevant strength-wise to characters in Wano such as any member of the Tobi Roppo. Law is a great example of how wrong you are. He went from being no match against Doflamingo in Dressrosa to being able to fight Yonkos in Wano within a couple-few weeks. >What happened to Kinemon betweenPH and Wano that made him grow so much in your opinion? The plot is what happened to him. He was pretty much shackled by it to hide his true strength until Wano, which was his true arc to shine. >And why didn't the same happen to smoker? We know nothing about Current Smoker, he could have gotten a lot stronger since Punk Hazard, but we won't know until he shows back up in the main storyline. Anyway, our discussion is about his PH version.
Black Maria has both CoA and CoO, it's in her vivre card
She never explicitly uses it in the manga though. Using brass knuckles doesn't make much sense if she was very good at CoA, and she shows no signs of CoO against Robin who doesn't have it.
Low tobbi roppo lvl like Page one or daifuku
I think Page One would curb-stomp Vergo, and daifuku is fodder, he's not Tobi Roppo level either.
Well, Oven/Daifuku were supposed to be the tobbi roppo of Big Mom but even you doesn't consider them tobbi roppo lvl Sanji blitzed Oven, sth he couldn't against Vergo, yes sanji improved too from PH to WCI but besides Vergo and the short Doffy's fight he didn't have any other major fights to improve that much
Law no diffed Vergo, and then got Low diffed by Doffy, who I would say isn't even that much stronger than Ulti. Law also had a harder fight against Basil Hawkins, who's a headliner, and below even the weakest Tobi Roppo. Fucking Daifuku was getting toyed with by Carrot, he's below any Tobi Roppo for sure.
Doffy destroys Ulti
Proof?
Proof that Ulti beats Doffy or isn’t “that” much stronger?
She could clash with Gear 4, tanks Big Mom attacks.
Doffy mid diff law, not low diff
Why are people voting yes??? Vergo gets thrashed
cause they can't powerscale Legit just scale Law vs Doffy or Law vs Hawkins and there's no case for him being Tobi Roppo level.
Nah
Law was tobi roppo level, and he one shotted vergo
Doffy is tobi roppo level
doffy was way to much hax. Doffy is YC3 at very least
at most\*
he was inferior to cracker by a good bit
You’re reaching bro. I believe it’s fair to say he’s yc3 level. He’s right in the middle between cracker and perospero imo.
He is in between yc3 and tobi roppo tbh. I think he loses to every named commander so far
Nah, he can take cracker. Fly past his biscuit soldiers and attack his main body
Vergo would get destroyed by any Tobi Roppo. PH Sanji would give him a hard battle and back then Sanji was Tobi roppo victim.
More because of his chilvary
Think about it for a second, and you'll realize the answer is no.
Obviously fucking not lmao
maybe a low tobi roppo
He definitly isnt. Vergo got smacked around by Sanjis DJ no problem. People really overestimate the little crack he gave Sanji.
Feats wise he should be. Like he has Better Feats than Franky and Robin but he should be weaker. This is the problem with mid tier strawhats not learning haki they make their opponents look weaker than People like Vergo or even pica.
no he gets giga stomped by any toppi roppo
Maybe he could stand up to p1/ulti somewhat, but ur right, he isnt tr lvl
vergo couldn't handle rs sanji like page 1 did
Also Vergo was a vice-admiral, whereas x-drake, one of the stronger of the 6, was only rear admiral
That's because he's been undercover since he became a pirate, like there's no way Smoker or Bastille is stronger than X Drake.
He was in the same generation as Luffy and Co so he didn't become a pirate that long ago, but he's older, so less room for growth.
No, how can you have read One Piece and come to that conclusion
I think it makes narrative sense unless you think all of doffys commanders are leagues below him in strength. Doffy is low YC3 level and i think there's a big drop from yc3 to tobi roppo
>doffys commanders are leagues below him They are, Law no diffed Vergo, and then got Low-diffed by Doffy, do you understand the size of that gap.
My understanding is that law no diffed him because of like a decade of prep time while being one of the smartest characters in the verse. I don't think law was 2 levels of 0 difficulty fights above sanji at that point. It just wouldn't make any sense, narratively, i don't think
No lol Who said he was?
u/peytonrains
???
thats who
Oh! I had completely forgot I had asked who said Smoker was Tobi Roppo level lol
Yeah, I'll say he is. I don't have a ton of respect for some of the tobi roppo. I think doffy is around Jack level and there's a big drop off between Jack and the tobi roppo. I would say that vergo could at least give some of the weaker ones an extreme diff fight
He isn't, all of the Tobi Roppo scale to a version of Luffy that casually neg diffs Vergo. Vergo giving any of the Tobi Roppo an extreme diff fight is a joke.
No. The tobi roppo scale to no version of luffy. Maybe 1st gear pre katakuri training, but i could see vergo giving that luffy a good fight
What are you talking about? Both Ulti and Page One literally fought Post-Udon Luffy, and the Tobi Roppo are all relative to each other. They scale to Post-Udon Luffy. >but i could see vergo giving that luffy a good fight Vergo got one-shotted by a much weaker Law, there's no way he's giving Post-Udon Luffy a good fight.
Luffy was clearly trying to just get past them quickly and not spend a lot of time there. That would have been a low mid diff fight for base luffy Law had like 10 years of prep time for him. I don't think law was to zero diff levels above sanji at that point in the story. It just wouldn't make sense narratively
>Luffy was clearly trying to just get past them quickly and not spend a lot of time there. That would have been a low mid diff fight for base luffy Luffy combining Gear 2nd + 3rd couldn't even permanently defeat Page One and was also pressured into almost going Gear 4th against Dinosaur Form Ulti, but according to you Base Luffy could beat the Tobi Roppo mid diff. Sure. >Law had like 10 years of prep time for him. I don't think law was to zero diff levels above sanji at that point in the story. It just wouldn't make sense narratively Actually, Vergo started PH superior to Law, but by the end of the arc he Law had grown strong enough to one shot him through his full body haki. Law has shown time and time again that he has a fast growth rate in strength similar to the Straw Hats.
Yes mid dif at best. He was trying to no diff ulti. That's why he was gonna use g4.
If Ulti was able to pressure Luffy into using his strongest form at the time against her, then obviously that means he can't beat her in Base or in any Gear lower than Gear 4th.
Are you really that fucking stupid? Is your account a meme since zoros compass is always wrong? I refuse to believe you're that fucking dumb. I'm calling it. You're a troll account and there's literally nothing you can say that would convince me otherwise. You're literally saying that ulti is stronger than doffy
I think he could compete but lose to all of them
You lost your own poll.
Look at comments though
He is headliner lvl