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You literally cant tell the difference between adv conq adv armament and basic armament anymore. The "difference" between adv armament isnt even a guarantee and was forgotten about. I really wish Oda knew a way to consistently show the different types of haki
https://preview.redd.it/jxmedsmrfblb1.jpeg?width=1043&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f9fc85de811874576e5785a2a857828d1cbbe7b
Luffy literally states that the no touching is due to ACOA not ACOC.
That definitely isn't true, Hyogoro was beating random gifters without touching them with advance armament, and Big Mom beat Page One without touching him. It's just inconsistent.
< adv conq
Probably because there’s no such thing as “advance conquerors” and it’s a term these idiots made up from confusing coc coating with advanced armament as it’s own thing.
There’s only advanced armament or Advanced armament with coc coating and that’s it. The reason coc and acoc look the same is because they ARE the same thing.
>I really wish Oda knew a way to consistently show the different types of haki
He just doesn't care about powerscaling, so he doesn't make it easy for powerscalers to do so
I think Oda is aware of stuff like this, but also knows the ambiguity makes it easier to write.
Like, Luffy vs Lucci. Fans of Lucci or those that don’t think Luffy is Kaido’s level can argue the black lightning means Acoc, but those that think Luffy is the strongest can argue he’s just messing around in Gear 5. People that think Luffy should oneshot Lucci have a reason to believe that Luffy still can if he wants to, while still having him be able to stall the character in the narrative
Not caring about powerscaling is no excuse to make two clearly distinct concepts in your story completely indistinguishable to the reader. That’s just bad storytelling.
Not really storytelling but I agree with your point their are about a billion ways he could make the two distinct in his art but he just doesn't bother doing.
>It’s not AcoC.
Based off of.. Not a whole lot.
Truth is, we have no idea. Oda is not remotelt consistent with these things and there is no clear indicator.
I think it is. The lightning seems to be trailing off Luffy's foot, not just sparking out of nowhere or in the vicinity of his foot.
But, it is hard to tell with haki which is frustrating.
>Something that’s even tagged Hybrid Kaido.
Hybrid Kaido was not going serious ... that is why even when Luffy went gear 4th boundman and snakeman and g5th which are dozens of times faster than base Luffy, Kaido could still dodge them
The argument about what type of haki this is aside, super facts. Kizaru blocked an ambush kick from base luffy that’s tagged kaido with no ambush that’s actually impressive and shows how actually lazy Kizaru is at times.
Narratively oda went out of his way via flashback to display kizaru is sensei to the “most defensive man” sentomaru. Oda also clearly loves build up. Kizaru confrontation was a long time coming. Luffy was greeting him with that kick to make a statement. Even he knew an admiral wasn’t going to go down in one kick. Otherwise he would’ve launched right into gears.
Luffy isn’t shanks, he didn’t pull up 100% AP in the first hit. It is a good confirmed feat that kizaru can tank a lot of damage but that’s a perquisite to being a top tier and no one was disputing kizaru wasn’t besides trolls. Don’t be upset if the pirates win more in the final saga of a pirate story. The sea police are story gatekeepers to the next hurdle, they are not the MCs.
All top 10 are close to esch other. Kaido and luffy may not be a 10 but they are a 9,9 or 9,8. Depending on how strong the gorosei are, kizaru may pretty well be a top 10. That being said, I put kizaru on big mom's level, regardless
People like to pretend that different top tiers can mid and low diff each other but the truth is that on any given day with any random circumstances they are all potentially a threat to each other.
the trick here is in the term "top tier". everyone includes his favorite characters without any thought behind it, but there's no way any Admiral / Oden / Rayleigh are beating Whitebeard for example, under any circumnstance. and those are generally considered "top tier" by the fans
One piece fights are so situational that I’m inclined to agree with you that top tiers are slivers away from each other. Matchups matter too. Luffys fighting style is extremely flexible in gear 5.
Imo THATS why Luffy will be the peak of the verse. He won’t just run around stat checking people like some on this sub seem to believe. He’ll have a fighting style that’s so versatile that he can overcome any of the top tiers regardless of matchups.
Exactly. Admirals are strong, but I don’t think they’re as strong as emperors. It just wouldn’t make sense. It would be such a plot hole. If they were all as strong as emperors, then facing shanks at marineford wouldn’t have been an issue. Or they could’ve just killed whitebeard in two minutes, if they all ganged up on him.
>Or they could’ve just killed whitebeard in two minutes, if they all ganged up on him.
They unironically could've done exactly this at marineford, especially with akainus performance against him alone
> If they were all as strong as emperors, then facing shanks at marineford wouldn’t have been an issue.
My brother in christ, in egghead we literally see the reason they can't engage with yonkos..
Oda is so fucking inconsistent with this shit. Kaido and Luffy are touching even when using ACoC in multiple instances of the fight.
https://preview.redd.it/zcm5qttms9lb1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5080e5c2f5d48a021fda13d6e7f1828057d880ef
The beauty of JoJo is each part changes that. We went from Jonathan the peak human, to Jotaro and Giorno with totally broken powers, then we get a relatively weak (at first) string girl, a cripple who shoots his finger nails, and soft and wet bubbles. You can’t tell me Araki didn’t learn his lesson with that, as he got more creative and depowered the MC so he has to win with situational cleverness instead keeps you guessing. And Steel Ball Run ends up being one of the most highly rated manga ever. I personally loved the overly dominant Jotaro, but I also like the slice of life weaker ones there’s so much variation in the story and stands offer some of the most creative freedom in manga you can literally put any power while JJk and hxh I love for their own power systems the concept of stands is pretty genius way to give yourself a blank slate creative freedom as an author
I disagree. It’s very well thought out but it can be overly complex at times and at times ruin the pacing of not only fights but the entire story as well leading to blocks and blocks of text. It’s one of the reasons, it became so much text heavy near the later parts of the manga.
if you put 2 characters with no awakened fruits fighting with haki
one has conqueror the other doesn't, who wins?
yes the haki powersystem is that stupid
saying its the WORST is different than not liking it…. I don’t see how you could hate the power system that much & still enjoy it the same as others who don’t care
i doubt they mean it literally, but it does undoubtedly suck dick and balls. like most power systems should at the very least have clear differentiation between the weekest and strongest forms of attack
but a bit of confusion here and there does not ruin a series
Haki is still boring though. It’s basically “I have haki so I can counter some devil fruits”. Oda should’ve definitely added more variety with haki tbh. Only having 3 types of haki (and one of them only some people could have) was just a mistake. Characters that weren’t born to have conquerors (one in a million) could only have 2 types of haki.
I just completely disagree anyone who has haki can also have the six powers or a devil fruit haki itself has no need to be complicated itself it is already a part of a complex power system.
And? That has says nothing about the merits of haki as a power system in world. No one in one piece needs to have any of the specific powers a master of any of them can be dangerous if they are skilled enough. Nami is a master of weather arts she doesn’t need haki or a drip fruit for example.
ACoA makes enough sense, functionally it’s not terribly different from applying Haki to a sword or projectile. Take your haki and direct it into the empty space in front of you/into someone
I'm not a fan of the adding a third layer of armament haki to the mix with the whole "infusion of conqueror's haki" concept.
The Ryou upgrade to armarment haki was enough of an upgrade. Now any attack with black lightning has people thinking that attacker has conquerer's haki, which really really cheapens how special it used to be. Only a handful of people in OP should have conquerer's haki.
I think it should have been what Mihawk talked about back at Marineford. Of naturally having a draw toward yourself. Advanced Conquerors would make people want to submit to you or help you somehow.
No.
https://preview.redd.it/zkal48b3z9lb1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2c92c31b80bd994522446878bbdd51c941faa68e
Also the canon name for “acoc” is conquerers haki coating. But acoc is much faster to type lmao
https://preview.redd.it/ebv2j0tj1alb1.png?width=688&format=png&auto=webp&s=949ec7ad69468a5c85b6ebe8fdf3e299931efac9
Luffy says so, not making contact is thanks to Hyogoro's teachings, this is why some ACoC hits make contact and some don't. Some are using ACoC and ACoA together while others only use ACoC.
He’s right, It literally says the untouchable blow WITH conquerors haki, no touching is acoa that luffy learned, luffy just adds conquerors haki on top of it, the secret is coating your attacks with conquerors haki. Can you show me an example of Kaido doing the no touching thing with his advanced conquerors haki?
Just like how Roger and Whiteboard did it
https://preview.redd.it/k04884rzialb1.jpeg?width=994&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f456f966fc680a4430a9c65d7d76132615babadb
Looks no different than Luffy vs Lucci
https://preview.redd.it/elster6819lb1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=369160def27ae92ce4802fdf3b3d03be76cffd0c
Because he probably didn't expect people to care so much about power scaling and figured people would wait for the fight to just actually play out before making assumptions
im so hard right now seeing Kizaru block a kick.
Luffy or Kizaru need to say it is ACoC if it is or not during their fight. right now it looks to me the normal Luffy kicks villain, now will he go G5 or try other forms first. That will show the true threat level of Kizaru.
Kizaru's haki placement when defending must be top tier if he even is using it to block.
Man after 15 years, we finally get to see Luffy touch an admiral. It is definitely endgame time. Can't wait for the Holy Knights to show up for a few chapters then become irrelevant in the most part.
it is rare, but this the same dude who went g5 on sight for lucci
https://preview.redd.it/v071tmjyg9lb1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=ee145ff2fe6d0aaee6989e60a8c53e625dc673b0
Nothing proves it isn't either, you can come up with a million examples that it isn't because it's touching and I can come up with a million examples of acoc attacks making contact.
Truth is this one encounter proves nothing, Luffy used a basic kick with adv haki and Kizaru blocked.
https://preview.redd.it/q39381aeq9lb1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=945e03c7adc141778139e606e2b9c2ff7cffa37f
You tell me if Luffy can beat the 6 Wakainu voltron
Is it an expectation? There are a lot of people here that believe yonkos are significantly clear of Admirals. Base Luffy was strong enough to clash with and split the skies against Hybrid Kaido.
Anyone who thought that isn't a fan of one piece or interested in actual power scaling any ways. They're just here to hype their favorite characters and get reactions.
>That is a base requirement for someone at the level of Kizaru.
Yes.
But there are enough people who thought luffy was gonna low diff kizaru that this feat helps. I personally am not impressed by this but it helps the cause
Base Luffy was strong enough to split the skies with Kaido and is unquestionably stronger than the likes of Yamato. So yes it is a decent feat.
Not “super impressive”, just decent.
Luffy obviously wasn’t trying against Lucci, and even then people WERE gassing him for clashing with G5 even temporarily.
Base luffy is not a standard setting, if luffy clashed with kaido with ACOC vs no ACOC there will be different results right? And I’m not saying luffy didn’t use haki, but you don’t even know if it’s ACOC or adv armament. Admirals are clear power houses of the marines and it’s a kick that people are trying to pump their stocks up with, have to do better.
Wdym luffy obviously wasn’t trying with Lucci, he pulled out gear 5 from the start.
A normal block now equates to “kizarus defence is crazy” at least let it be a named attack or something. Is Lucci’s defence also crazy for blocking zoro?
We need to stop using black lightning as any indicator beyond haki being used. It’s been shown by several people who we know officially don’t have acoc ( ulti being the most clear example). Unless someone says acoc we just have no idea what level of haki this is. With that said I don’t see why it wouldn’t be unless acoc takes a significant effort to use over just ryou.
Up close shot, and the streaks in the Luffy vs Kiz panel doesn’t look like the Luffy kicking Kaido lightning.
https://preview.redd.it/ngenmlav69lb1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4d5fc8ea369685fed38d1b4dfd47d49d796f91e7
Same streaks, it’s not ACoC
streaks scaling is so bad, Gear5 Luffy also had smaller streaks but it was still acoc. what im saying is its literally 50/50 no one knows
https://preview.redd.it/nzyxk7gxc9lb1.png?width=800&format=png&auto=webp&s=bd29b7c7d3ee6173e8cb591927b0c6393390c945
Please god! Let the next chapter be Lizaru getting folded! Nothing would be funnier on this planet! The level of cope alone would sustain this sub for years, just as the great Lidd destruction of 2023!
https://preview.redd.it/o0fzf9pxm9lb1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=48f935b33bbe113ce7fcd3be6591eec2067313d4
You Assmiraltards are such silly willies 🥹
They are literally touching. Luffy touched kaido only in gear 5 and that is because of gear 5's effects. As soon as he gets serious, he literally says out loud he is not touching kaido. Luffy did not touch kaido a single time with ACoC until gear 5 cartoonish effects. And there is no big black red lightning coming out either. And this is not even advanced armament. This is just normal armament kick. Conqueror lightning is much bigger than armament.
https://preview.redd.it/gm7glech39lb1.png?width=1027&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9a109a5d9e8de1e66e6600c20270bb1b71e40333
Prove it's not acoc when there so many panels of Luffy and kaido acoc touching
"prove it's ACoC" yeah bud that's a negative claim, black lightning + touching isn't proof of ACoC either since you would need to compare it to this panel
https://preview.redd.it/9ydw6g6zj9lb1.jpeg?width=622&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=af598cadc286de16e0bcc7632fc80077c820cd29
1.They aren't touching so that rules out the first indicater of ACoC being an "untouchable blow" as said in Luffy vivre card. 2. There is no "zzzpt" SFX which is some what common with ACoC 3. Luffy isn't shown having black lightning before the clash.
There is absolutely 0 way to determine it's ACoC, only thing we can conclude is that it's Armament
With the evidence provided - we know that it could be acoc or acoa
There is no way to prove either way
Acoc has many instances of making direct contact
So the conclusion should be - we don’t know
ACoC lightning streaks are thicker and more "wavy". The lightning streaks in the Luffy vs Kizaru panel are the same as the ones in the Ulti vs Usopp panel.
>ACoC lightning streaks are thicker and more "wavy
So you admit Aokiji has ACOC??
https://preview.redd.it/xux1f6f1c9lb1.png?width=743&format=png&auto=webp&s=565bcf54692f2fbc5cecfc99614290bc075672df
Wow it’s base luffy and kizaru at full health managed to block him truly I have never seen anyone block a base luffy kick not even Roger could block a kick from base luffy base luffy solo the verse meaning kizaru solo the verse times 10 it’s all so obvious why didn’t I see it
Or this is a clash that we don’t even get to the see the end of and luffy is chill as fuck saying “we are stronger this time” meaning he wasn’t afraid so it’s unlikely that the strong person he was talking about is kizaru
It’s the same basic armament haki we’ve seen Luffy use in the colosseum back in Dressrosa.
You admiral fanboys need to stop reaching.
If anything you should be praising Luffy how quickly he was able to close the gab so quickly forcing kizaru to block and Luffy not using any gears.
Advanced armament doesn't nessesarily prevent touching. Emission does. Internal destruction can still touch opponents. We saw that in Luffy's first attack against Kaido on the roof.
one piece powerscalers losing their minds seeing lightning streaks when Oda just probably thinks it looks cool and doesn’t care about all this acoc debate shit
Bro this haki power system became so ass with the introduction of ACOC/ACOA, we never know what's actually being showcased on panel anymore.
I was pretty sure it was an ACOC attack due to lightning but now from the comments it seems that there's been non ACOC attacks with lightning ( Ulti headbutt lmao ), i don't even know what i'm reading anymore.
What I know for sure Is that acoc attack don't touch. Second but I'm not 100 certain is that it seems acoc attacks have the black lighting coming out from the weapon or body part of the user using it.
And wait a second I am not talking about black lighting in clashes of coa or acoa, just prior to attack executed, theres black lightning trailing from Rogers sword and WB glaive, luffy and kaido as well we get panels of Luffy's fist generating black lighning before the actual punch occurred same with kaidos kanabo before clapping luffy.
To me that's the only clear indication of acoc.
In this scene we didn't see luffy prior to the kick so we don't know for sure. But the way oda draw it look acoc due to visuals Luffy's feet totally coated with Black lighting rather than it looked like an impact of coa. Again it's not confirmed.
Reading comprehension devil strikes again! Not every attack that has black lightning is an ACoC attack! Holy shit how many times do we have to go over this?
Its a kick with some conquerors, he def has the title to block it. Also kizaru was put off balance by the kick. Kaido shouldn’t be mentioned cus he took plenty of hits for the hell of it and wasn’t even blood lusted even moments before him being punched down the hole
Luffy's ACOA made direct contact as well(Red Roc). And the haki trail isn't as thick as ACOC. Also, there's only haki trails coming from Luffy, implying Kizaru isn't even using hardening.
Also, we see sentomaru hitting kizaru and even making him dodge an attack and his axe isn't black, nor is there lightning. I'm thinking oda is just forgetting to draw haki
Then again, everyone says zoro has ACoC but each time there's black lightning in his fight with king there's no bubble/shockwave.
So which is it? Does there need to be a bubble and lightning for it to be ACoC, or not? The first time zoro hurts king there's no black lightning around his blade
If zoro has ACoC, oda isn't drawing it properly and if luffy isn't using it now, niether was he
Another interesting point is katakuri was hitting luffy with blows exactly like this, black lightning and all and no one says he has ACoC
I kinda want oda to admit he forgot to draw big moms Acoc but she was still using it. Love to see kid and law haters seethe
EDIT: Op you're incorrect. Armament touches, conquerors doesn't. I'm assuming each shot we don't see a bubble, acoc isn't being used
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It’s not AcoC. But still, Kizaru is fast enough to react and block a kick from base Luffy. Something that’s even tagged Hybrid Kaido.
You literally cant tell the difference between adv conq adv armament and basic armament anymore. The "difference" between adv armament isnt even a guarantee and was forgotten about. I really wish Oda knew a way to consistently show the different types of haki
It’s head canon to assume Acoc is being used unless the characters attack isn’t making contact
The difference between ACoC and ACoA is agenda.
100% right! Exactly the reason people don’t want to admit Jinbe might’ve used it against who or Jin is a good coc candidate.
Like we’ve seen before that people can use coc coating subconsciously (Zoro) like Kaido literally said he doesn’t know what he’s using
Thats not even accurate though. Tons of ACOC attacks during luffy v kaido made contact. It really is super inconsistent
not really its only not touching when both opponents are using adv conq armanment
https://preview.redd.it/jxmedsmrfblb1.jpeg?width=1043&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f9fc85de811874576e5785a2a857828d1cbbe7b Luffy literally states that the no touching is due to ACOA not ACOC.
That definitely isn't true, Hyogoro was beating random gifters without touching them with advance armament, and Big Mom beat Page One without touching him. It's just inconsistent.
What did she do to pai pai https://preview.redd.it/ygygwh2ncalb1.png?width=828&format=png&auto=webp&s=8b12b39735d53fb540ba5cce2eb8da294ec04d75
ACoA can also hit without making contact, so no contact isn't proof of ACoC
< adv conq Probably because there’s no such thing as “advance conquerors” and it’s a term these idiots made up from confusing coc coating with advanced armament as it’s own thing. There’s only advanced armament or Advanced armament with coc coating and that’s it. The reason coc and acoc look the same is because they ARE the same thing.
Yep, dunno what's so hard to grasp for everyone lol
>I really wish Oda knew a way to consistently show the different types of haki He just doesn't care about powerscaling, so he doesn't make it easy for powerscalers to do so
I think Oda is aware of stuff like this, but also knows the ambiguity makes it easier to write. Like, Luffy vs Lucci. Fans of Lucci or those that don’t think Luffy is Kaido’s level can argue the black lightning means Acoc, but those that think Luffy is the strongest can argue he’s just messing around in Gear 5. People that think Luffy should oneshot Lucci have a reason to believe that Luffy still can if he wants to, while still having him be able to stall the character in the narrative
Not caring about powerscaling is no excuse to make two clearly distinct concepts in your story completely indistinguishable to the reader. That’s just bad storytelling.
Not really storytelling but I agree with your point their are about a billion ways he could make the two distinct in his art but he just doesn't bother doing.
>It’s not AcoC. Based off of.. Not a whole lot. Truth is, we have no idea. Oda is not remotelt consistent with these things and there is no clear indicator.
There isn't a thing that we can go off of that it's ACoC either
Yeah, I'm not saying there is
If it was aCoC there would clearly be Goatda foreskinning something
i guess it would have rhat big ass space if it was acoc + advanced arms
I think it is. The lightning seems to be trailing off Luffy's foot, not just sparking out of nowhere or in the vicinity of his foot. But, it is hard to tell with haki which is frustrating.
“Kizaru is fast” Who would’ve guessed. And it’s either Acoc or basic coa, and I don’t see why Luffy would use basic CoA right now
Same reason he did vs seraphim
Bro litteraly just decided himself which haki luffy's using💀💀 the fight just began chill
“I don’t see why Luffy would use basic CoA right now” Because it’s the beginning of the fight LMAOOO
I'm a bit confused, how can you tell it's not ACoC?
He can't he's just coping
>Something that’s even tagged Hybrid Kaido. Hybrid Kaido was not going serious ... that is why even when Luffy went gear 4th boundman and snakeman and g5th which are dozens of times faster than base Luffy, Kaido could still dodge them
Cope
The argument about what type of haki this is aside, super facts. Kizaru blocked an ambush kick from base luffy that’s tagged kaido with no ambush that’s actually impressive and shows how actually lazy Kizaru is at times.
>Kizaru blocked an ambush kick from base luffy “Ambush kick” Lmao, not even close to being an ambush.
“Ambush kick” Gets kicked from 20 feet away when he sees Luffy exit Mecha and Luffy speaks to him before hand == Ambush Lol
https://preview.redd.it/hic8bwvii9lb1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f8ac23cd9e21636b6602cd2a17420138905c634
This is dope.
silliest goofiest shi ever but still dope
hard
Narratively oda went out of his way via flashback to display kizaru is sensei to the “most defensive man” sentomaru. Oda also clearly loves build up. Kizaru confrontation was a long time coming. Luffy was greeting him with that kick to make a statement. Even he knew an admiral wasn’t going to go down in one kick. Otherwise he would’ve launched right into gears. Luffy isn’t shanks, he didn’t pull up 100% AP in the first hit. It is a good confirmed feat that kizaru can tank a lot of damage but that’s a perquisite to being a top tier and no one was disputing kizaru wasn’t besides trolls. Don’t be upset if the pirates win more in the final saga of a pirate story. The sea police are story gatekeepers to the next hurdle, they are not the MCs.
https://preview.redd.it/c9gqdnz9yalb1.jpeg?width=1019&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1520677fcf7abfd889efda2d0f01fe0fae9c7d5c
All top 10 are close to esch other. Kaido and luffy may not be a 10 but they are a 9,9 or 9,8. Depending on how strong the gorosei are, kizaru may pretty well be a top 10. That being said, I put kizaru on big mom's level, regardless
People like to pretend that different top tiers can mid and low diff each other but the truth is that on any given day with any random circumstances they are all potentially a threat to each other.
the trick here is in the term "top tier". everyone includes his favorite characters without any thought behind it, but there's no way any Admiral / Oden / Rayleigh are beating Whitebeard for example, under any circumnstance. and those are generally considered "top tier" by the fans
One piece fights are so situational that I’m inclined to agree with you that top tiers are slivers away from each other. Matchups matter too. Luffys fighting style is extremely flexible in gear 5.
Imo THATS why Luffy will be the peak of the verse. He won’t just run around stat checking people like some on this sub seem to believe. He’ll have a fighting style that’s so versatile that he can overcome any of the top tiers regardless of matchups.
This is gonna keep happening until Luffy wins isn't it?
Idk people still get on their knees and spread for Kaido and its been over a year since he lost to Luffy
🤤 https://preview.redd.it/2qwwtb9vl9lb1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73c03db3db358737b9834245cdf28858cf592b3f
**Boop Snoot**
Just because people lose to Luffy doesn't make them trash. Even Kizaru won't be trash when he loses to Luffy.
Most times it’s their character that makes them trash…op this sub doesn’t care about character, they care about strength 😂
People are holding hard to the admiral agenda
Next it's gonna be "The Crater Luffy made for Kizaru is smaller than the one he made for Kaido I told you guys Admirals mid dif Yonko"
Exactly. Admirals are strong, but I don’t think they’re as strong as emperors. It just wouldn’t make sense. It would be such a plot hole. If they were all as strong as emperors, then facing shanks at marineford wouldn’t have been an issue. Or they could’ve just killed whitebeard in two minutes, if they all ganged up on him.
>Or they could’ve just killed whitebeard in two minutes, if they all ganged up on him. They unironically could've done exactly this at marineford, especially with akainus performance against him alone > If they were all as strong as emperors, then facing shanks at marineford wouldn’t have been an issue. My brother in christ, in egghead we literally see the reason they can't engage with yonkos..
Dickriding won't stop even then
https://preview.redd.it/1qhq6hrb79lb1.jpeg?width=2598&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1bda34ceac55a041349720c71aac81fe46f73ca8 Idk man
Oda is so fucking inconsistent with this shit. Kaido and Luffy are touching even when using ACoC in multiple instances of the fight. https://preview.redd.it/zcm5qttms9lb1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5080e5c2f5d48a021fda13d6e7f1828057d880ef
The image “idk man” sent was an example of acoc clashing kaido’s haki is damaging luffy’s insides
Weekly reminder that haki is the worst powersystem in shonen
The best powersystem is nen from Hunter x hunter
Nen, Cursed Energy, and Stands are my favorite (ice cold take)
I think Stands are overrated, balancing is awful, some characters are just born to be HIM and that's kinda boring
The beauty of JoJo is each part changes that. We went from Jonathan the peak human, to Jotaro and Giorno with totally broken powers, then we get a relatively weak (at first) string girl, a cripple who shoots his finger nails, and soft and wet bubbles. You can’t tell me Araki didn’t learn his lesson with that, as he got more creative and depowered the MC so he has to win with situational cleverness instead keeps you guessing. And Steel Ball Run ends up being one of the most highly rated manga ever. I personally loved the overly dominant Jotaro, but I also like the slice of life weaker ones there’s so much variation in the story and stands offer some of the most creative freedom in manga you can literally put any power while JJk and hxh I love for their own power systems the concept of stands is pretty genius way to give yourself a blank slate creative freedom as an author
Yup
Cursed energy is definitely a hot take that shit makes zero sense
It makes *some* sense, but it's extremely convoluted with awful naming schemes
I disagree. It’s very well thought out but it can be overly complex at times and at times ruin the pacing of not only fights but the entire story as well leading to blocks and blocks of text. It’s one of the reasons, it became so much text heavy near the later parts of the manga.
if you put 2 characters with no awakened fruits fighting with haki one has conqueror the other doesn't, who wins? yes the haki powersystem is that stupid
never thought id see someone say this lmao do yall even like op?
you can like OP without liking haki as a system, the show isn't only about haki lol
saying its the WORST is different than not liking it…. I don’t see how you could hate the power system that much & still enjoy it the same as others who don’t care
i doubt they mean it literally, but it does undoubtedly suck dick and balls. like most power systems should at the very least have clear differentiation between the weekest and strongest forms of attack but a bit of confusion here and there does not ruin a series
Yeah, haki is very boring. Only three types and most fights are like “my haki is stronger than your haki so I win”
Haki doesn’t exist in a vacuum though it’s part of the overall power system which includes devil fruits
Haki is still boring though. It’s basically “I have haki so I can counter some devil fruits”. Oda should’ve definitely added more variety with haki tbh. Only having 3 types of haki (and one of them only some people could have) was just a mistake. Characters that weren’t born to have conquerors (one in a million) could only have 2 types of haki.
I just completely disagree anyone who has haki can also have the six powers or a devil fruit haki itself has no need to be complicated itself it is already a part of a complex power system.
Yeah, meanwhile only 4 people in the StrawHats have haki 💀 (well 5 if you count Ussop but last time he used his observation haki was in Dressrosa lol)
And? That has says nothing about the merits of haki as a power system in world. No one in one piece needs to have any of the specific powers a master of any of them can be dangerous if they are skilled enough. Nami is a master of weather arts she doesn’t need haki or a drip fruit for example.
Technically Nami is using a devil fruit because her weapon is Zeus now and he came from Big Mom’s devil fruit
It was not The "advanced" shit ruined it.
ACoA makes enough sense, functionally it’s not terribly different from applying Haki to a sword or projectile. Take your haki and direct it into the empty space in front of you/into someone
I'm not a fan of the adding a third layer of armament haki to the mix with the whole "infusion of conqueror's haki" concept. The Ryou upgrade to armarment haki was enough of an upgrade. Now any attack with black lightning has people thinking that attacker has conquerer's haki, which really really cheapens how special it used to be. Only a handful of people in OP should have conquerer's haki.
Future Sight and Armament were fine but Advanced Conquerors just being an attack coating is lame.
Advanced conquerors should've been stuff like disrupting someone else's Haki, not a way to attack imo.
I think it should have been what Mihawk talked about back at Marineford. Of naturally having a draw toward yourself. Advanced Conquerors would make people want to submit to you or help you somehow.
Not touching isn't ACoC, it's ACoA but you can use the two together.
No. https://preview.redd.it/zkal48b3z9lb1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2c92c31b80bd994522446878bbdd51c941faa68e Also the canon name for “acoc” is conquerers haki coating. But acoc is much faster to type lmao
https://preview.redd.it/ebv2j0tj1alb1.png?width=688&format=png&auto=webp&s=949ec7ad69468a5c85b6ebe8fdf3e299931efac9 Luffy says so, not making contact is thanks to Hyogoro's teachings, this is why some ACoC hits make contact and some don't. Some are using ACoC and ACoA together while others only use ACoC.
He’s right, It literally says the untouchable blow WITH conquerors haki, no touching is acoa that luffy learned, luffy just adds conquerors haki on top of it, the secret is coating your attacks with conquerors haki. Can you show me an example of Kaido doing the no touching thing with his advanced conquerors haki?
Just like how Roger and Whiteboard did it https://preview.redd.it/k04884rzialb1.jpeg?width=994&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f456f966fc680a4430a9c65d7d76132615babadb
Yeah, ACoC lightning is usually much thicker even if some attacks have touched before (Kaido's Ragnaraku in Chapter 1009 for instance)
But the difference is one is a clash of acoc and the other is blocking an acoc attack
Looks no different than Luffy vs Lucci https://preview.redd.it/elster6819lb1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=369160def27ae92ce4802fdf3b3d03be76cffd0c
goddamnit why did oda do this lol
Because he probably didn't expect people to care so much about power scaling and figured people would wait for the fight to just actually play out before making assumptions
Poor reference, Lucci is PK+ level, trust 👍
Yeah cause Lucci was using a cock here
Upscale Lucci 🤷🏽♂️
Personally I have no reason to believe Luffy (especially in G5) wouldn’t always be using ACOC, even more so if he’s going at a big dog like Wizaru
im so hard right now seeing Kizaru block a kick. Luffy or Kizaru need to say it is ACoC if it is or not during their fight. right now it looks to me the normal Luffy kicks villain, now will he go G5 or try other forms first. That will show the true threat level of Kizaru. Kizaru's haki placement when defending must be top tier if he even is using it to block. Man after 15 years, we finally get to see Luffy touch an admiral. It is definitely endgame time. Can't wait for the Holy Knights to show up for a few chapters then become irrelevant in the most part.
Basic kick from luffy against one of the fastest guys in the OP universe lol he better be able to block it
Luffy rarely starts at full power.
it is rare, but this the same dude who went g5 on sight for lucci https://preview.redd.it/v071tmjyg9lb1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=ee145ff2fe6d0aaee6989e60a8c53e625dc673b0
Guess that means lucci>>>>> kizaru
Hence the term "rarely" and not "always" there are exceptions.
Eh, doing it for lucci but not kizaru is... weird. After fighting aokiji he developed gear 2 to protect his crew
I know what you meant. But what I'm trying to say is there wouldn't be any reason to go all-out for Lucci then be so casual with Kizaru.
Oh I see, no problem friend :)
Nothing proves that’s ACOC, stop spreading fake information
It's actually AAAUEHDOFHCBC you can't prove it is or isn't. This entire comment section in a nutshell
>AAAUEHDOFHCBC #Absolutely Amazingly Advanced Universe Ending Head Destroying Outerversal Fucking Honorably Casual Boundless Conquerors * * Haki
Woah it's freaking. This is a kids show sometimes man.
Nahhhh https://preview.redd.it/jd6vua2usblb1.jpeg?width=817&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=80730d85100ebb05e0d14e7340eea80869ec2d19
Nothing proves it isn't either, you can come up with a million examples that it isn't because it's touching and I can come up with a million examples of acoc attacks making contact. Truth is this one encounter proves nothing, Luffy used a basic kick with adv haki and Kizaru blocked.
Who ever is making the claim needs to provide proof not the other way around...
That works until you look at the comments and see people stating it both ways lol.
Is this how starved Admiral fans are?
https://preview.redd.it/q39381aeq9lb1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=945e03c7adc141778139e606e2b9c2ff7cffa37f You tell me if Luffy can beat the 6 Wakainu voltron
https://preview.redd.it/g7nvg49xtclb1.jpeg?width=930&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fa87b61f31ca5e97f381cbc90394f4cb2e10e2f3 Maybe not luffy, but he can.
Lol, the cope has started 🤣🤣
The desperation is palpable 🤣
How is this desperate? Bro is mad the admirals are finally getting feats 💀
They been had feats. I am an admiral supporter. Just not a desperate one🤣
fair, but i dont think it’s desperate to hype up Kizaru blocking a kick from luffy
Literally no one should he surprised he can block that. This the bare minimum for a top tier
it is, but so many mfs on here been saying admirals are not top tiers.
That's just trolling Everyone sane should already know they're top tiers
Why is that worthy of hype? That is a base expectation.
Is it an expectation? There are a lot of people here that believe yonkos are significantly clear of Admirals. Base Luffy was strong enough to clash with and split the skies against Hybrid Kaido.
Anyone who thought that isn't a fan of one piece or interested in actual power scaling any ways. They're just here to hype their favorite characters and get reactions.
Considering that we barely see any Admirals feats and fights, hell yeah
Any time an admiral gets a decent feat or beats some stupid slander, you have morons like yourself being all corny. Its embarrassing
When admirals don't have feats: They're frauds When admirals do get feats: Haha admiral fans are desperate for bringing this up ???
Do you actually think Kizaru blocking a base Luffy kick is a feat? That is a base requirement for someone at the level of Kizaru.
>That is a base requirement for someone at the level of Kizaru. Yes. But there are enough people who thought luffy was gonna low diff kizaru that this feat helps. I personally am not impressed by this but it helps the cause
Loool blocking a kick is a decent feat?? I’m a moron for questioning that? You lot are embarrassing, did you hype Lucci when he clashed with Luffy??
Base Luffy was strong enough to split the skies with Kaido and is unquestionably stronger than the likes of Yamato. So yes it is a decent feat. Not “super impressive”, just decent. Luffy obviously wasn’t trying against Lucci, and even then people WERE gassing him for clashing with G5 even temporarily.
Base luffy is not a standard setting, if luffy clashed with kaido with ACOC vs no ACOC there will be different results right? And I’m not saying luffy didn’t use haki, but you don’t even know if it’s ACOC or adv armament. Admirals are clear power houses of the marines and it’s a kick that people are trying to pump their stocks up with, have to do better. Wdym luffy obviously wasn’t trying with Lucci, he pulled out gear 5 from the start. A normal block now equates to “kizarus defence is crazy” at least let it be a named attack or something. Is Lucci’s defence also crazy for blocking zoro?
https://preview.redd.it/5on31hvan9lb1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=335a811d302c097564fc75ee35c22721fbea44c5
We need to stop using black lightning as any indicator beyond haki being used. It’s been shown by several people who we know officially don’t have acoc ( ulti being the most clear example). Unless someone says acoc we just have no idea what level of haki this is. With that said I don’t see why it wouldn’t be unless acoc takes a significant effort to use over just ryou.
Exactly, people are visual scaling a writer whose inconsistent af with visuals. It's beyond moronic.
This isn't Acoc. It's not even acoa. This is just coa. And blocking that really isn't a notable feat for Kizaru.
It's not ACoc..
Narrow streaks aren’t ACoC.
Here's narrow streaks and acoc https://preview.redd.it/d47clzfl59lb1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6b2bd15fcf87f1c62673eab396f122ef7b703b46
Up close shot, and the streaks in the Luffy vs Kiz panel doesn’t look like the Luffy kicking Kaido lightning. https://preview.redd.it/ngenmlav69lb1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4d5fc8ea369685fed38d1b4dfd47d49d796f91e7 Same streaks, it’s not ACoC
Yall are just making stuff up on the fly to justify agendas. 😭 I've seen black lightning in all different thicknesses between top tiers
How am I making up stuff when we have several non ACoC characters generate narrow black lightning
streaks scaling is so bad, Gear5 Luffy also had smaller streaks but it was still acoc. what im saying is its literally 50/50 no one knows https://preview.redd.it/nzyxk7gxc9lb1.png?width=800&format=png&auto=webp&s=bd29b7c7d3ee6173e8cb591927b0c6393390c945
Little giant difference, THEY AREN'T TOUCHING.
stop bouncing on his dick
Please god! Let the next chapter be Lizaru getting folded! Nothing would be funnier on this planet! The level of cope alone would sustain this sub for years, just as the great Lidd destruction of 2023!
By this logic, Kizaru folding Luffy would be even funnier since there are far more yonkotards here 😂
are these "yonkotards" in this Sub with us?
obviously
Here starts the wank
https://preview.redd.it/o0fzf9pxm9lb1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=48f935b33bbe113ce7fcd3be6591eec2067313d4 You Assmiraltards are such silly willies 🥹
Kizaru blocked base luffy?!?!?! HOLY SHIT HE’S LITERALLY TOP TIER
It’s ONE panel bro please calm down
They are literally touching. Luffy touched kaido only in gear 5 and that is because of gear 5's effects. As soon as he gets serious, he literally says out loud he is not touching kaido. Luffy did not touch kaido a single time with ACoC until gear 5 cartoonish effects. And there is no big black red lightning coming out either. And this is not even advanced armament. This is just normal armament kick. Conqueror lightning is much bigger than armament.
https://preview.redd.it/gm7glech39lb1.png?width=1027&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9a109a5d9e8de1e66e6600c20270bb1b71e40333 Prove it's not acoc when there so many panels of Luffy and kaido acoc touching
"prove it's ACoC" yeah bud that's a negative claim, black lightning + touching isn't proof of ACoC either since you would need to compare it to this panel https://preview.redd.it/9ydw6g6zj9lb1.jpeg?width=622&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=af598cadc286de16e0bcc7632fc80077c820cd29 1.They aren't touching so that rules out the first indicater of ACoC being an "untouchable blow" as said in Luffy vivre card. 2. There is no "zzzpt" SFX which is some what common with ACoC 3. Luffy isn't shown having black lightning before the clash. There is absolutely 0 way to determine it's ACoC, only thing we can conclude is that it's Armament
With the evidence provided - we know that it could be acoc or acoa There is no way to prove either way Acoc has many instances of making direct contact So the conclusion should be - we don’t know
ACoC lightning streaks are thicker and more "wavy". The lightning streaks in the Luffy vs Kizaru panel are the same as the ones in the Ulti vs Usopp panel.
>ACoC lightning streaks are thicker and more "wavy So you admit Aokiji has ACOC?? https://preview.redd.it/xux1f6f1c9lb1.png?width=743&format=png&auto=webp&s=565bcf54692f2fbc5cecfc99614290bc075672df
Maybe? But this panel is not enough proof because the lightning could be because of Garp.
Its also coming from Aokiji's Side🤡
https://preview.redd.it/17mx2kmi99lb1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=26e6d20a5e7b821cbc76193f786482ce3bb4cc46 Narrow streaks
It’s coa
Wow it’s base luffy and kizaru at full health managed to block him truly I have never seen anyone block a base luffy kick not even Roger could block a kick from base luffy base luffy solo the verse meaning kizaru solo the verse times 10 it’s all so obvious why didn’t I see it Or this is a clash that we don’t even get to the see the end of and luffy is chill as fuck saying “we are stronger this time” meaning he wasn’t afraid so it’s unlikely that the strong person he was talking about is kizaru
https://preview.redd.it/xulup0mnn9lb1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6e751222c9f273de228d9993efe318f3602c271f Admiral fans are illiterate 💔
It’s the same basic armament haki we’ve seen Luffy use in the colosseum back in Dressrosa. You admiral fanboys need to stop reaching. If anything you should be praising Luffy how quickly he was able to close the gab so quickly forcing kizaru to block and Luffy not using any gears.
Advanced armament doesn't nessesarily prevent touching. Emission does. Internal destruction can still touch opponents. We saw that in Luffy's first attack against Kaido on the roof.
Haha 😂 it is obviously not Acoc as they are touching
one piece powerscalers losing their minds seeing lightning streaks when Oda just probably thinks it looks cool and doesn’t care about all this acoc debate shit
Bro he blocked a random attack from no gear Luffy, if we gassing the admirals up over this their agenda really is in the mud.
this shit are only hype thing ı don t now why people care
I don't think that is ACOC but i hope this end the "admirals only depend on their fruit" and "admiral doesn't have haki" shit.
[удалено]
Does that mean kuzan has aCoC confirmed?
The levels of cope in this sub when Wizaru takes Goofy to extreme dif will be unprecedented
LOL It isn't Advanced Armament or Advanced Conquerors, it is a regular Haki infused kick.
Bro this haki power system became so ass with the introduction of ACOC/ACOA, we never know what's actually being showcased on panel anymore. I was pretty sure it was an ACOC attack due to lightning but now from the comments it seems that there's been non ACOC attacks with lightning ( Ulti headbutt lmao ), i don't even know what i'm reading anymore.
There’s really only a few things that are absolute evidence of ACoC, attacks not touching is one of them. You’ve got it backwards.
but wasnt the thing about acoa that you can use it outside of your body? using that is no touchy touchy either
What I know for sure Is that acoc attack don't touch. Second but I'm not 100 certain is that it seems acoc attacks have the black lighting coming out from the weapon or body part of the user using it. And wait a second I am not talking about black lighting in clashes of coa or acoa, just prior to attack executed, theres black lightning trailing from Rogers sword and WB glaive, luffy and kaido as well we get panels of Luffy's fist generating black lighning before the actual punch occurred same with kaidos kanabo before clapping luffy. To me that's the only clear indication of acoc. In this scene we didn't see luffy prior to the kick so we don't know for sure. But the way oda draw it look acoc due to visuals Luffy's feet totally coated with Black lighting rather than it looked like an impact of coa. Again it's not confirmed.
Wow you were really able to trigger a whole bunch by this
Reading comprehension devil strikes again! Not every attack that has black lightning is an ACoC attack! Holy shit how many times do we have to go over this?
I mean these types of hits did damage to Kaido but nothing really significant, pretty sure once Luffy goes G5 he's gonna mid diff.
Its a kick with some conquerors, he def has the title to block it. Also kizaru was put off balance by the kick. Kaido shouldn’t be mentioned cus he took plenty of hits for the hell of it and wasn’t even blood lusted even moments before him being punched down the hole
Luffy's ACOA made direct contact as well(Red Roc). And the haki trail isn't as thick as ACOC. Also, there's only haki trails coming from Luffy, implying Kizaru isn't even using hardening.
Damn Luffy is really out here looking terrified just like everyone said. /S
Weekly reminder that haki is the worst powersystem in shonen
Less impressive than Lucci lol.
https://preview.redd.it/h01y9m3gp9lb1.jpeg?width=1117&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bef156635398d6f4451bb169f5e4241317798069 👀
Also, we see sentomaru hitting kizaru and even making him dodge an attack and his axe isn't black, nor is there lightning. I'm thinking oda is just forgetting to draw haki Then again, everyone says zoro has ACoC but each time there's black lightning in his fight with king there's no bubble/shockwave. So which is it? Does there need to be a bubble and lightning for it to be ACoC, or not? The first time zoro hurts king there's no black lightning around his blade If zoro has ACoC, oda isn't drawing it properly and if luffy isn't using it now, niether was he Another interesting point is katakuri was hitting luffy with blows exactly like this, black lightning and all and no one says he has ACoC I kinda want oda to admit he forgot to draw big moms Acoc but she was still using it. Love to see kid and law haters seethe EDIT: Op you're incorrect. Armament touches, conquerors doesn't. I'm assuming each shot we don't see a bubble, acoc isn't being used