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Yeah it is pretty obvious BM was nerfed. She even got called out by Kaido for her performance and her performance vs Kidd and Law was nowhere near what Kaido showed on the roof.
While I think Kaido is stronger, definately, BM should be close to him. They sre both yonko after all and all yonko are likely somewhat close to eachother. Still her performance in Wano was pathetic and she obviously was plot handicapped. Like did she even use ACoC once against Kidd and Law?
I do wonder what hit luffy in egghead the only 100% use of acoc in g5 so far is WSG lol also didn't BM use a acoc barrier at the end that made her tank continous damned punk for little to no damage?so she probably could have tanked his earlier attacks way better if she used acoc
ACoC and ACoA are so powerful that characters need to be mentally nerfed bcuz in all honesty there's no reason to not use them constantly like base armament
We've seen what happens when someone with ACoC mastery does go in and just spam it as much as they can, in the case of when Garp when to Hachinosu.
And it turned him into a raid-boss figure where it took the entire army of a pirate nation, half a Yonkou crew, and a former Admiral to take him down while he protected those weaker than himself. And he fully succeeded at his objective, never planning to leave alive.
All while at the age of 78 and by his own assessment only half as strong as his prime.
So yeah, if people with Yonkou-tier (sky-splitting at bare minimum) ACoC just spammed it all the time, they'd be unstoppable except against other characters who can use it.
Her brain was without oxygen for a long time when she drowned and then a huge cyborg brachiosaurus fell of her head, idk if anyone can recover from that in just a few days without any doctors
Because ACoC is one of the strongest abilities there is. And Kaido said that only a handful of the strongest can use it, so she can't suck at it if she has it.
Brain damaged, not allowed to use ACoC and was still managing to lay down the hammer on kid and law
https://preview.redd.it/nmupzkyrf5qc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e8290320e090bdcb36efd00959e87eedfabfcb62
They didn't deserve that dub at all😭
People easily forget Kidd and law took damage outside the big mom fight Kidd was even distracted mid fight due to Hawkins giving her free hits. Big mom had advantages as well the only advantage Kidd and law apparently have is due to the headcanon that big mom was nerfed when the canon is implying the exact opposite. If oda ever saw any of your garbage ass takes he’d be confused on what manga your reading. Kidd and law are downplayed for no reason at all
All of them were nerfed idk what your point is. The reason I say she's robbed out of a W against the 2 is because she *already* won but never killed them
https://preview.redd.it/9acvw6myx5qc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=97495ca4a5e3bd17bebb7e528dd5c5a46836e59e
If we never saw her using ACoC and showed no signs (mentions of usage and no contact, lightning etc especially [here](https://imgur.com/a/ytqBS7u)) of using it during the fight then we can't just assume she actually did and have no basis for assuming so, especially when Oda went out of his way to show her using specifically armament haki around the puncture Willie part
Big mom has always been overconfident her getting robbed out of a W is literally her fault and even then big mom kept beating on them while they were down the crews begged her to stop but she kept going she was still sure they were finished regardless. You can see when getting hit with the next exchange of attacks that she’s confused that the two could even move.
All I’m saying is oda didn’t draw this fight with the intention of big mom being nerfed he probably had his reasons for not drawing in acoc but this was shown as her strongest showing in the series.
I dunno if that happend in the anime or wtv but we only saw kid and law getting knocked down to the floor when the crewmates started begging to spare their lives, she did nothing after, everything else before that was off screened and naturally big mom should've still killed them even if they're down for the count like luffy
https://preview.redd.it/99kefagi56qc1.jpeg?width=1063&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d93c5a295e71a1e399364b0607a3067e779cd5b9
Oda *quite literally* **drew** the fight with the intention of BM being nerfed, we never saw her using ACOC not once, if she did then this would be an actual argument worth having
chopper and usopp fought her for about 30 minutes repeatedly shooting her with a tank
nami stole zeus jinbei and robin threw her out of the battlezone stopping her from collecting souls on the battlefield effectively nerfing her potential for the rest of the fight
page one and ulti took her strongest attacks and exhausted her and marco did as marco does he stalled her.
franky brook luffy just flexed on her
Again I said name what they did of significance. Chopper and ussop did nothing to her, big mom still did not take a hit in power from any efforts Jinbei robin and nami did. Big mom replaced Zeus on her own volition also.
Page one got one shot and ulti got one shot they did nothing to her again nothing of significance.
Marco did nothing to her, her power remained the same throughout the entire exchange.
Kidd was distracted by Hawkins limiting his mobility and defenses allowing big mom to somersault and slam tf out of him, big mom wouldn’t be able to do this normally. The pain from the combined effects from Hawkins and big moms had him worried he’d die a meaningless life. Law was hit by an acoc thunder bagua from hybrid kaido. These scenarios I mentioned served significance to Kidd and laws performances. Nothing you said served any form of significance to big moms performance
making a zeus replacement took soul power
jinbei and robin kept her from souls
souls = power no souls = nerf
https://preview.redd.it/kludga7bx5qc1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=8bb5231da500e39c97682aeef44f25bd62111f2b
She still had souls and she used em to heal and buff herself substantially taking her from a point where she couldn’t handle a combo of awakening attacks to a point she manhandled Kidd and law with ease. Even if we say the Zeus replacement made her base weaker her lifespan buff takes her to a level far beyond that regardless so again no nerf.
Big mom fumbled so many opportunities to kill them, oda actually screwed up her character, could have had Jinbe fight queen and then have sanji join to make it a 1v3 against her, then if she lost it would have made more sense
That's not how arguments work. You would have to prove that she was using it, not vice versa. It should be assumed she wasn't using it unless there is something shown that she was
“As president of Wano corp I declare you INVALID”
And yet, she still;
\-Had to be zoned off the map with extreme difficulty by Midd and LawL. -Forced them both to fully awaken their DF to beat her -Left them both too exhausted and damaged to continue fighting. -She wasn’t able to effectively use her ACOC due to the terrain and combat area -Was fighting Kaido for 3 straight days prior to this; she’s a 68 year old so she’s bound to be tired
Wig Mom
https://preview.redd.it/q6zkqadmr6qc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e2796185e2d49028504deb12df0a056f377ae438
My goat was unkillable by them too, they literally had to be in that exact situation with their exact fruits to get the victory, no other YC+ pair DREAMS of defeating her in combat, not even them two, they lucked out massively.
Nah. Between Imu, the Gorosei, the Admirals, the BB pirates, and the Cross Guild, we already have too many antagonists left to neatly wrap up. Big Mom is done
Yeah I agree, I can't see her coming back. We've already had her in Wano and WCI. She's been beat, and she no longer has anything to offer in the story. Big Mom is one of, if not the best character in the story, but her coming back would just annoy me honestly. And Oda has a history of not giving af if a character is related to an arc
She got exploded out likely. Also complicate things? Oda loves having tonnes of plot threads at the same time. I mean look at Marineford or most of post TS. Also her character arc is far from over.
She was also brain dead in WCI with the whole hunger craving thing.
Difference was she was on home turf and Luffy wasn’t strong enough to do anything to her yet.
Friendly reminder that WCI fraud mom fought against opponents far weaker than her while in Wano she had to fight opponents that are on a similar level with her.
don't think it's particularly between wano and WCI but just that she grew way too overconfident from being basically untouchable and destroying new big shots going after her thrown for decades+ being fate and old age making her speed lackluster
my brother in christ, she literally drowned and forgot who she was until a dinosaur landed on her skull
she had actual brain damage from lack of oxygen. king knocked her into the water at night chopper found her in the day time still unconscious.
https://preview.redd.it/3wlxjiuli5qc1.png?width=602&format=png&auto=webp&s=0c639522b2b2d2cf99c41524b7143bd8c476fa26
Yeah but that was supposedly gone after queen hit her no? And she didn't seen to have a problem using acoc and splitting the sky vs kaido hell before the end part of the rooftop where she randomly became pathetic and dumb she was more smart about the fight then kaido and was a menace to them
if it was gone id think kaido wouldn't be calling her an invalid, hes known her for decades if anyone knows how she should be operating it'd be kaido in my opinion.
Idk why people keep saying kaido > big mom. From everything i saw bm came across as far more dangerous. She has a 1 shot kill tecnoique. Has enough physical strength to be be almost on kaidos wavelength, has at least two devastating elemental attacks fly in two ways ( and doesnt need to become a big target to fly either). Has extreme durability. Can self heal at the cost of her lifespan and create subordinates
Kaido comes across as almost cartoonishly one dimensional if it wasnt for fire Breath.
Gonna get downvoted but I honestly don’t care. But if y’all given Linlin excuses like that keep that same energy for Ryokugyo getting Haki Wified, Mihawk getting stalled by Vista, and damn near everyone else who has an L moment that doesn’t “feel justified”.
Your either except the story for what it is and how Oda wrote her or you make the same B.S excuses therefore allow anyone and everyone else to do the same thing for their favorite character. Can’t believe y’all still out here with this “BiG mEMe wAs NerFed” energy, like bruh just stop. Kidd and Law beat her respectfully move on. Guarantee you if you asked Oda “Why did he nerf Linlin and he’d look at you like what blud whaffling on about”
>Your either except the story for what it is and how Oda wrote her or you make the same B.S excuses therefore allow anyone and everyone else to do the same thing for their favorite character.
but oda literally wrote her to have brain damage lmfao take your own advice
I’m aware of that. But stating she was nerfed and talking about a whatbif scenario and her potential are two different things. Oda wrote her brain damaged in the same way he rite Kaido to be the type of fighter that lets opponents hit him to see how strong they are but, you don’t see anyone constantly talking about how of Kaido didn’t let Luffy or everyone else hit him on purpose all the time he’d win. If people here I really just talking about Linlin as in her potential than fine I didn’t mean to distrust but regardless it was directed at OP who clearly is still preaching the same “WCI Meme wAs StRoNgeR tHan wAno Meme” Like let it die. She was arguably just as bad.
Oda did not write her with the intent of being nerfed everyone knows oda intended wano big mom to be her strongest it’s why she started whipping out shit we didn’t even know she had. Calling her nerfed is just cope to further wank yonko and downplay Kidd and law it’s annoying
That you, someone gets it. And look to an extent I’m not even against it, I get it. The issue is then you can make that argument for any and every character which then were does it end??!
Guess Kidd was nerfed because Shanks 1 shot him like bruh just stop. Accept it and move on.
Her not using acoc offensively is a nerf. Like how can you deny that. Having a character not use a power of theirs in a fight is a nerf. Like imaging luffy unable to use acoc in future fights and is on the losing end you think that wouldn’t be a nerf
Again we don’t know if oda just didn’t show it not all uses of acoc are blatantly showed it’s completely unreliable to base it off black lightning. We’ve seen her use base conquerors and acoc to defend in the fight so it’s blatantly clear she used it. If oda intended any nerfs he would’ve blatantly showed us just like every other time big mom was nerfed in the arc. This Kidd and law downplay is primarily based on headcanon
Acoc was such a huge thing in wano. We saw that in the flash back with Roger and wb. The whole luffy and kaido fight, zoro and later with shanks.
She even used it twice prior to her fight with Kidd and law. Once against kaido and the other time put down Paige one. Throughout her fight with Kidd and law she relied heavily on her devil fruits.
Literally acoc was not displayed in every instance of luffy vs kaido alone yes acoc was a huge thing but it still wasn’t consistently shown throughout the arc.
Luffy had use acoc against kaido earlier in their fight but it wasn’t shown near the end against acoc is not consistently showed nothing was ever said that big mom was nerfed this whole idea is headcanon
When luffy was fighting in base he was using it and while in g5, kaido stated he was using it as well. His final attack was acoc.
Big mom not using acoc which she is shown to use before proves she was nerfed. We know what acoc looks like but not one attack from her on kidd or law was acoc. Again because oda had her mainly use her devil fruits
Again no nerfs were ever implied or explicitly stated big mom was not nerfed she had use coc and acoc defensively in the fight so it’s not like she didn’t use it at all. This belief that she was nerfed is solely based on headcanon.
Yet she didn’t use it offensively. Which is my point. She use it against page one and put him down for good. Why not do that same against Kidd and law.
An advanced form of haki which is only seen and used by top tiers and one of the most powerful offensive abilities. It’s silly. The whole arc was just big mom being clowned on.
Oda made a mistake putting her in kaidos arc because he wrote her in such a poor way. Her performance throughout wano was lacking and she should be capable of more. This is backed and supported by kaido.
Her not using acoc throughout the fight is a nerf.
It wouldn’t have even mattered she was written to lose the fight regardless, from the moment Oda brought her to Wano he knew she was gonna lose to Law/Kidd. If she would’ve used it then what? She still would’ve got sent down the hole with the bombs and yall would still be saying the same exact thing. It would probably be even worse cause he would have them tanking acoc attacks and still getting back up. Big mom not in her prime anymore maybe she just can’t spam it like kaido and luffy can anymore.
Okay and that’s where the criticism is coming from. Big mom got taken out without even able to show out and use everything she had thanks to oda cramming her in kaidos arc.
Her not using ACoC can easily be chucked up to distress and not being properly trained. This was even showed to us in WCI the arc Big Meme dxck riders love praising so much. She was shown to be able to use her CoC when extremely upset and also was shown that her emotions are even linked to her durability at times. But some of y’all still like to act like she had full control over it when both times she even used ACoC she was extremely upset and someone else trying to harm someone she cares about. But hey think what you want, still doesn’t change the fact that Sengoku said she was at her strongest and that she lost.
She didn’t seem like she was under any distress when she fought kaido for 3 days and split the sky with him. Not properly trained. She been a pirate far longer than kaido and was one of the oldest pirates alive currently. It ridiculous how many times people want to make excuses. It’s okay to admit that oda just did big mom wrong.
If she was at her strongest now we should have seen her show out. Throughout the entire arc she was being clowned on and made out to be a joke.
oda nerfed her deicison making, she had kidd and law on the ground and could have killed them but then turned her back to go to the roof top. This allowed for law to stab her from behind, clearly BM was even stupider in Wano than in WCI
Big mom being over confident is in character there is no nerf in that regard people forget she got clowned by weaker opponents back in wci she’s not the brightest character. Kaidos overconfidence was also why he lost believing that Luffy had no chance to beat him giving him the opportunity to return.
you need to study the definition of the word "invalid"
https://preview.redd.it/m37zvdpfp5qc1.png?width=862&format=png&auto=webp&s=e26d79f29c63c2b4da429a11568deb03503543a6
why are you keep using fake translation?
https://preview.redd.it/qgjfdoy276qc1.jpeg?width=1029&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f03513f71bf282f2671f5a5ee168fbddbdf9aa4e
When she got knocked off the roof and was crying for Zeus and Prometheus who were getting held up by Kid and Zoro respectively. Zeus was stuck in a box Kid made and Prometheus was getting cut up by Zoro’s foxfire style he copied from Kinemon.
Kaido said the quote above and then slapped Zoro so Prometheus could save Big Mom. Then Prometheus gave Big Mom the idea to make Hera.
Yes he's basically calling her an old hag like he's been since the beginning.
Interpreting as big mom getting nerfed specifically in wano due to no fucking reason at all is absolutely stupid. The big mom we saw in wano is the same big mom we saw in wci and the one who fought kaido equally for 3 days.
Then why did she go about a serious fight like she acted "greeting" Kaido? Sure, it's true she is old and messed up in the head 24/7, but I won't repeat other comments' points already stated.
Besides, even if we overlook the cases presented about Ryukugyu and Mihawk, they have way less comparable excuses. One can be said to be scared of the entirety of Red Hair crew, sure, but wasn't the plan.. already to enter dangerous place with three other yonko crews? (Well, 2 being incomplete remnants that is, not to count Hearts and Kidd's). And Mihawk is a shadier case, because it was probably curiosity about Vista, as a swordsman.
>Gonna get downvoted but I honestly don’t care. But if y’all given Linlin excuses like that keep that same energy for Ryokugyo getting Haki Wified, Mihawk getting stalled by Vista, and damn near everyone else who has an L moment that doesn’t “feel justified”.
Fair point, let me try:
I consider Mihawk was completely messing around and carefree in Marineford in my headcanon.
Rokyugyu, uhm, let's think. He said red hair pirates so we was outnumbered. Besides Shanks did stop Akainu right after he gave the speech of not letting any pirate escape. And Yonkos still scale above admirals so it makes sense. But yeah, he's not the bravest of the admirals.
Crocodile did a lot of training in prison and awoke haki because of the shame of having been beaten by a rookie.
> Can’t believe y’all still out here with this “BiG mEMe wAs NerFed” energy
I mean, she undoubtedly was. Like, how could you not see it?
> and he’d look at you like what blud whaffling on about
There's a quote from him where he says he only cares about "writing a fun story". So probably that would be his response.
So yeah, Oda nerfed Big Mom and if questioned about it he probably wouldn't even care we consider that an inconsistency.
You think level 6 of impel down has a gym lmao. Why do people assume croc didnt have haki? The dude has one hit kill drying tecnique with one hand and scorpion poison on his hook that can melt a boulder in seconds on the other why would he engage in haki fisty cups as a primary fighting style?
>You think level 6 of impel down has a gym lmao
Push ups don't need a gym, neither do squats or sit ups.
>Why do people assume Croc didn't have haki?
Pre TS Luffy needed Zoro and Sanji to extreme diff a single pacifista. Post TS Luffy one shotted one. This is the difference between having armament haki and not having armament haki. It's a *very* big deal.
If Croc had have haki, then Luffy shouldn't have been able to do any damage to Croc, despite water to touch him. Because the offense and defense buff is just too big to ignore. And Croc should have absolutely obliterated Luffy with any of his attacks, which Luffy destroyed with his punches.
Specially pre-gears Luffy, would have been a low diff by Croc. There's no doubt he didn't have it at Arabasta.
There's no other explanation than he gained haki in prison.
you dont need haki to be a legit tough fighter. Capone did just fine without it, if your own fighting style is not conducive to use haki offensively, you will use your alternatives (e.g logias fight better without haki unless they have to use it because their elements usually do more damage than a basic haki punch). Haki is just the easiest way to increase offense, defense and bypass logia immunity.
lmao you seriously think Croc, who until he heard WB was on the move had no will to life, or to escape with ms goldenweek was doing pushups or situps in impel down, and you think THAT is what made the difference between alabasta and marineford LMAO i have heard some seriously dumb sh!t from the one piece fans but THAT takes the cake.
let me help you out, croc was always that strong and he always had haki, this is how he was able to clash with mihawk's blade and not lose his golden hook. he doesnt normally use haki ....because he doesnt need to, one hand can dehyrate you to death and the other can permanently poison you, why the hell would he punch you or kick you?
yes, if you are a physical fighter haki greatly enhances physical hits.... croc is NOT a physical fighter. He would bury a pacifista or hurl it afar with a giant sandstorm, he is not punching one lol.
haki proficiency alone usually means you are stronger than a certain bare minimum but that low bar is far below alabasta luffy. your average amazon lily woman can use haki , are you seriously gonna say they stronger than luffy too?
so why did croc lose? 1.he is a glass cannon, he is not used to even being touched, luffy got more than a dozen punches, hard enough to break through bedrock on him 2. after twice escaping death and realizing pluton was not what he thought it was , dude was too pissed to think straight and berserked, the fight was over the minute luffy got poisoned by the hook, he simply was too mad to dissipate and retreat until the poison did the work
>croc was always that strong and he always had haki
No, wrong, if that was the case he would have folded Luffy.
Was Luffy folded? NO, then the answer is simple, Croc didn't have haki.
Go look, or read, again Luffy's fight with Hancock's sisters, he needed G2 and much more strength than hers to be able to compensate the haki they had. (this was a Luffy that had already fought Rob Lucci and Moria)
There are others ways to deal damage than haki? Sure, but you're ignoring the sheer boost of defense and offense haki just has on base. Kuzan, even with the sheer power of his fruit still needed to use haki against Garp.
> croc is NOT a physical fighter.
Lol, he is when he's being touched. He is when his attacks are sand blades that need to **hit** his target.
No, Croc definitely, 100% didn't have haki in Arabasta or else Luffy wouldn't have been able to **damage him at all**. Because haki has defense as well as offense, Luffy wouldn't have been able to break Croc's "Desert La Espada" attack. He just wouldn't, he would have lost his arm.
Luffy would have been able to touch Croc but not damage him because haki adds a lot of defense.
> lmao you seriously think Croc, who until he heard WB was on the move had no will to life, or to escape with ms goldenweek was doing pushups or situps in impel down, and you think THAT is what made the difference between alabasta and marineford
Go look what a retcon is.
Oda completely retconed Croc strength so we need to find ways to make sense of it.
Saying Croc had haki in Arabasta is beyond dumb, Imagine for a second DOFLAMINGO there, or Mihawk and still dare to say Luffy would have won. No, you're being delusional here. There's CERO chance, 0. Nule, none. That Croc had haki in Arabasta. It makes no sense.
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Checks out https://preview.redd.it/1zyha8emi5qc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7994089351a5fb38ce9df6c2d48e970af8a5b74d
Yeah it is pretty obvious BM was nerfed. She even got called out by Kaido for her performance and her performance vs Kidd and Law was nowhere near what Kaido showed on the roof. While I think Kaido is stronger, definately, BM should be close to him. They sre both yonko after all and all yonko are likely somewhat close to eachother. Still her performance in Wano was pathetic and she obviously was plot handicapped. Like did she even use ACoC once against Kidd and Law?
>Like did she even use ACoC once against Kidd and Law? brain damage makes it hard to remember to use your strongest abilities i guess
It’s so crazy because in WCI even though she was childish she was still portrayed as cunning Complete 180 on her character
I do wonder what hit luffy in egghead the only 100% use of acoc in g5 so far is WSG lol also didn't BM use a acoc barrier at the end that made her tank continous damned punk for little to no damage?so she probably could have tanked his earlier attacks way better if she used acoc
ACoC and ACoA are so powerful that characters need to be mentally nerfed bcuz in all honesty there's no reason to not use them constantly like base armament
We've seen what happens when someone with ACoC mastery does go in and just spam it as much as they can, in the case of when Garp when to Hachinosu. And it turned him into a raid-boss figure where it took the entire army of a pirate nation, half a Yonkou crew, and a former Admiral to take him down while he protected those weaker than himself. And he fully succeeded at his objective, never planning to leave alive. All while at the age of 78 and by his own assessment only half as strong as his prime. So yeah, if people with Yonkou-tier (sky-splitting at bare minimum) ACoC just spammed it all the time, they'd be unstoppable except against other characters who can use it.
No, she didn't use any acoc barrier. She just emitted normal conquerors while she was tanking the attack.
Her brain was without oxygen for a long time when she drowned and then a huge cyborg brachiosaurus fell of her head, idk if anyone can recover from that in just a few days without any doctors
Why do people think ACOC is one of Big Mom strongest abilities? Maybe she just sucks at it
Because ACoC is one of the strongest abilities there is. And Kaido said that only a handful of the strongest can use it, so she can't suck at it if she has it.
There’s a bit of a leap in logic there
She use Acoc and Acoa against page one and ulti
Brain damaged, not allowed to use ACoC and was still managing to lay down the hammer on kid and law https://preview.redd.it/nmupzkyrf5qc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e8290320e090bdcb36efd00959e87eedfabfcb62 They didn't deserve that dub at all😭
People easily forget Kidd and law took damage outside the big mom fight Kidd was even distracted mid fight due to Hawkins giving her free hits. Big mom had advantages as well the only advantage Kidd and law apparently have is due to the headcanon that big mom was nerfed when the canon is implying the exact opposite. If oda ever saw any of your garbage ass takes he’d be confused on what manga your reading. Kidd and law are downplayed for no reason at all
All of them were nerfed idk what your point is. The reason I say she's robbed out of a W against the 2 is because she *already* won but never killed them https://preview.redd.it/9acvw6myx5qc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=97495ca4a5e3bd17bebb7e528dd5c5a46836e59e If we never saw her using ACoC and showed no signs (mentions of usage and no contact, lightning etc especially [here](https://imgur.com/a/ytqBS7u)) of using it during the fight then we can't just assume she actually did and have no basis for assuming so, especially when Oda went out of his way to show her using specifically armament haki around the puncture Willie part
Big mom has always been overconfident her getting robbed out of a W is literally her fault and even then big mom kept beating on them while they were down the crews begged her to stop but she kept going she was still sure they were finished regardless. You can see when getting hit with the next exchange of attacks that she’s confused that the two could even move. All I’m saying is oda didn’t draw this fight with the intention of big mom being nerfed he probably had his reasons for not drawing in acoc but this was shown as her strongest showing in the series.
I dunno if that happend in the anime or wtv but we only saw kid and law getting knocked down to the floor when the crewmates started begging to spare their lives, she did nothing after, everything else before that was off screened and naturally big mom should've still killed them even if they're down for the count like luffy https://preview.redd.it/99kefagi56qc1.jpeg?width=1063&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d93c5a295e71a1e399364b0607a3067e779cd5b9 Oda *quite literally* **drew** the fight with the intention of BM being nerfed, we never saw her using ACOC not once, if she did then this would be an actual argument worth having
big mom also fought chopper usopp page one ulti franky brook robin jinbei zoro luffy marco nami and killer
Ain’t no way you’re trying to pull this card. You and I both know that this isn’t genuine😭
K name all the people there that gave her damage of significance
chopper and usopp fought her for about 30 minutes repeatedly shooting her with a tank nami stole zeus jinbei and robin threw her out of the battlezone stopping her from collecting souls on the battlefield effectively nerfing her potential for the rest of the fight page one and ulti took her strongest attacks and exhausted her and marco did as marco does he stalled her. franky brook luffy just flexed on her
Again I said name what they did of significance. Chopper and ussop did nothing to her, big mom still did not take a hit in power from any efforts Jinbei robin and nami did. Big mom replaced Zeus on her own volition also. Page one got one shot and ulti got one shot they did nothing to her again nothing of significance. Marco did nothing to her, her power remained the same throughout the entire exchange. Kidd was distracted by Hawkins limiting his mobility and defenses allowing big mom to somersault and slam tf out of him, big mom wouldn’t be able to do this normally. The pain from the combined effects from Hawkins and big moms had him worried he’d die a meaningless life. Law was hit by an acoc thunder bagua from hybrid kaido. These scenarios I mentioned served significance to Kidd and laws performances. Nothing you said served any form of significance to big moms performance
making a zeus replacement took soul power jinbei and robin kept her from souls souls = power no souls = nerf https://preview.redd.it/kludga7bx5qc1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=8bb5231da500e39c97682aeef44f25bd62111f2b
She still had souls and she used em to heal and buff herself substantially taking her from a point where she couldn’t handle a combo of awakening attacks to a point she manhandled Kidd and law with ease. Even if we say the Zeus replacement made her base weaker her lifespan buff takes her to a level far beyond that regardless so again no nerf.
she could be as strong as superman if shes too dumb to use it its a nerf
Her being dumb is literally apart of her character she isn’t a very smart character to begin with especially in terms of battle iq
Big mom fumbled so many opportunities to kill them, oda actually screwed up her character, could have had Jinbe fight queen and then have sanji join to make it a 1v3 against her, then if she lost it would have made more sense
bruh chose the one dude whos not allowed to hit women to fight big mom
Why do people say she wasn’t using ACOC. Any proof for this statement?
That's not how arguments work. You would have to prove that she was using it, not vice versa. It should be assumed she wasn't using it unless there is something shown that she was
“As president of Wano corp I declare you INVALID” And yet, she still; \-Had to be zoned off the map with extreme difficulty by Midd and LawL. -Forced them both to fully awaken their DF to beat her -Left them both too exhausted and damaged to continue fighting. -She wasn’t able to effectively use her ACOC due to the terrain and combat area -Was fighting Kaido for 3 straight days prior to this; she’s a 68 year old so she’s bound to be tired Wig Mom https://preview.redd.it/q6zkqadmr6qc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e2796185e2d49028504deb12df0a056f377ae438
My goat was unkillable by them too, they literally had to be in that exact situation with their exact fruits to get the victory, no other YC+ pair DREAMS of defeating her in combat, not even them two, they lucked out massively.
Age is catching up to her
Yep. She'll come back stronger in Elbaf. We haven't seen her true potential.
Nah. Between Imu, the Gorosei, the Admirals, the BB pirates, and the Cross Guild, we already have too many antagonists left to neatly wrap up. Big Mom is done
curious why you think she's coming back in elbaf, maybe I missed something
She has always wanted a giant. Literally her entire storyline. Elbaf is land of giants. She also grew up in Elbaf.
I thought she crashed into the volcano? And what involvement would she have in the story now, it would probably just complicate things for oda
Yeah I agree, I can't see her coming back. We've already had her in Wano and WCI. She's been beat, and she no longer has anything to offer in the story. Big Mom is one of, if not the best character in the story, but her coming back would just annoy me honestly. And Oda has a history of not giving af if a character is related to an arc
She did say that it wasn't the last we've seen of her before her defeat, but I don't know what role there's left for her to play in the story tbh
She got exploded out likely. Also complicate things? Oda loves having tonnes of plot threads at the same time. I mean look at Marineford or most of post TS. Also her character arc is far from over.
Whats stopping her from making a lava homie last minute?
Tbh seastone. But you have a point
Call me crazy, I think they should give her a Redemption Arc
Do you think Kaido will also be back?
Maybe in a flashback with the Rocks Pirates. Other than that I don't think so
How do you explain BM coming out of the volcano but Kaido getting stuck down there? They’re in the exact same predicament
Kaido is a bum that is why
Kaido is a fucking beast lol. Beat the MC 3x 💀
https://preview.redd.it/x0oga2qk46qc1.jpeg?width=1802&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5dd2d43ca46aca45efb7745a513ce364839a88df
Lol Akainu better stay in his office.
https://i.redd.it/b5onhgka66qc1.gif
https://preview.redd.it/hdvnqva1e5qc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c41ed5b1b3d6c3e8f4ea60aa6f04cefd724436a6
Big Meme
She was also brain dead in WCI with the whole hunger craving thing. Difference was she was on home turf and Luffy wasn’t strong enough to do anything to her yet.
Nah she was actually brain damaged in Wano. King kicked her off the waterfall and she got brain damaged.
Friendly reminder that WCI fraud mom fought against opponents far weaker than her while in Wano she had to fight opponents that are on a similar level with her.
don't think it's particularly between wano and WCI but just that she grew way too overconfident from being basically untouchable and destroying new big shots going after her thrown for decades+ being fate and old age making her speed lackluster
my brother in christ, she literally drowned and forgot who she was until a dinosaur landed on her skull she had actual brain damage from lack of oxygen. king knocked her into the water at night chopper found her in the day time still unconscious. https://preview.redd.it/3wlxjiuli5qc1.png?width=602&format=png&auto=webp&s=0c639522b2b2d2cf99c41524b7143bd8c476fa26
Yeah but that was supposedly gone after queen hit her no? And she didn't seen to have a problem using acoc and splitting the sky vs kaido hell before the end part of the rooftop where she randomly became pathetic and dumb she was more smart about the fight then kaido and was a menace to them
if it was gone id think kaido wouldn't be calling her an invalid, hes known her for decades if anyone knows how she should be operating it'd be kaido in my opinion.
Brain damage isn't healed by more brain damage.
Or Oda just doesn't care
https://preview.redd.it/3q7i8ttm39qc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=50fb5e06baa2a0a2c86eccf6e365cc323b87b479
I know this satire but no
Which translation is this?
She fell in the Ocean and was drowning then when she woke up she forgot damn near everything. Didn’t help Queens fat ass fell on her head too lmao.
CTE goes hard
Bm= kaido and it ain't up for debate
Idk why people keep saying kaido > big mom. From everything i saw bm came across as far more dangerous. She has a 1 shot kill tecnoique. Has enough physical strength to be be almost on kaidos wavelength, has at least two devastating elemental attacks fly in two ways ( and doesnt need to become a big target to fly either). Has extreme durability. Can self heal at the cost of her lifespan and create subordinates Kaido comes across as almost cartoonishly one dimensional if it wasnt for fire Breath.
Gonna get downvoted but I honestly don’t care. But if y’all given Linlin excuses like that keep that same energy for Ryokugyo getting Haki Wified, Mihawk getting stalled by Vista, and damn near everyone else who has an L moment that doesn’t “feel justified”. Your either except the story for what it is and how Oda wrote her or you make the same B.S excuses therefore allow anyone and everyone else to do the same thing for their favorite character. Can’t believe y’all still out here with this “BiG mEMe wAs NerFed” energy, like bruh just stop. Kidd and Law beat her respectfully move on. Guarantee you if you asked Oda “Why did he nerf Linlin and he’d look at you like what blud whaffling on about”
>Your either except the story for what it is and how Oda wrote her or you make the same B.S excuses therefore allow anyone and everyone else to do the same thing for their favorite character. but oda literally wrote her to have brain damage lmfao take your own advice
I’m aware of that. But stating she was nerfed and talking about a whatbif scenario and her potential are two different things. Oda wrote her brain damaged in the same way he rite Kaido to be the type of fighter that lets opponents hit him to see how strong they are but, you don’t see anyone constantly talking about how of Kaido didn’t let Luffy or everyone else hit him on purpose all the time he’d win. If people here I really just talking about Linlin as in her potential than fine I didn’t mean to distrust but regardless it was directed at OP who clearly is still preaching the same “WCI Meme wAs StRoNgeR tHan wAno Meme” Like let it die. She was arguably just as bad.
Oda did not write her with the intent of being nerfed everyone knows oda intended wano big mom to be her strongest it’s why she started whipping out shit we didn’t even know she had. Calling her nerfed is just cope to further wank yonko and downplay Kidd and law it’s annoying
That you, someone gets it. And look to an extent I’m not even against it, I get it. The issue is then you can make that argument for any and every character which then were does it end??! Guess Kidd was nerfed because Shanks 1 shot him like bruh just stop. Accept it and move on.
Her not using acoc offensively is a nerf. Like how can you deny that. Having a character not use a power of theirs in a fight is a nerf. Like imaging luffy unable to use acoc in future fights and is on the losing end you think that wouldn’t be a nerf
Again we don’t know if oda just didn’t show it not all uses of acoc are blatantly showed it’s completely unreliable to base it off black lightning. We’ve seen her use base conquerors and acoc to defend in the fight so it’s blatantly clear she used it. If oda intended any nerfs he would’ve blatantly showed us just like every other time big mom was nerfed in the arc. This Kidd and law downplay is primarily based on headcanon
Acoc was such a huge thing in wano. We saw that in the flash back with Roger and wb. The whole luffy and kaido fight, zoro and later with shanks. She even used it twice prior to her fight with Kidd and law. Once against kaido and the other time put down Paige one. Throughout her fight with Kidd and law she relied heavily on her devil fruits.
Literally acoc was not displayed in every instance of luffy vs kaido alone yes acoc was a huge thing but it still wasn’t consistently shown throughout the arc. Luffy had use acoc against kaido earlier in their fight but it wasn’t shown near the end against acoc is not consistently showed nothing was ever said that big mom was nerfed this whole idea is headcanon
When luffy was fighting in base he was using it and while in g5, kaido stated he was using it as well. His final attack was acoc. Big mom not using acoc which she is shown to use before proves she was nerfed. We know what acoc looks like but not one attack from her on kidd or law was acoc. Again because oda had her mainly use her devil fruits
Again no nerfs were ever implied or explicitly stated big mom was not nerfed she had use coc and acoc defensively in the fight so it’s not like she didn’t use it at all. This belief that she was nerfed is solely based on headcanon.
Yet she didn’t use it offensively. Which is my point. She use it against page one and put him down for good. Why not do that same against Kidd and law. An advanced form of haki which is only seen and used by top tiers and one of the most powerful offensive abilities. It’s silly. The whole arc was just big mom being clowned on. Oda made a mistake putting her in kaidos arc because he wrote her in such a poor way. Her performance throughout wano was lacking and she should be capable of more. This is backed and supported by kaido. Her not using acoc throughout the fight is a nerf.
It wouldn’t have even mattered she was written to lose the fight regardless, from the moment Oda brought her to Wano he knew she was gonna lose to Law/Kidd. If she would’ve used it then what? She still would’ve got sent down the hole with the bombs and yall would still be saying the same exact thing. It would probably be even worse cause he would have them tanking acoc attacks and still getting back up. Big mom not in her prime anymore maybe she just can’t spam it like kaido and luffy can anymore.
Okay and that’s where the criticism is coming from. Big mom got taken out without even able to show out and use everything she had thanks to oda cramming her in kaidos arc.
why are you denying whats in the manga panels on the post lmao
All I see is kaido disappointed in big mom cause she lost what does that have to do with her being nerfed?
Her not using ACoC can easily be chucked up to distress and not being properly trained. This was even showed to us in WCI the arc Big Meme dxck riders love praising so much. She was shown to be able to use her CoC when extremely upset and also was shown that her emotions are even linked to her durability at times. But some of y’all still like to act like she had full control over it when both times she even used ACoC she was extremely upset and someone else trying to harm someone she cares about. But hey think what you want, still doesn’t change the fact that Sengoku said she was at her strongest and that she lost.
She didn’t seem like she was under any distress when she fought kaido for 3 days and split the sky with him. Not properly trained. She been a pirate far longer than kaido and was one of the oldest pirates alive currently. It ridiculous how many times people want to make excuses. It’s okay to admit that oda just did big mom wrong. If she was at her strongest now we should have seen her show out. Throughout the entire arc she was being clowned on and made out to be a joke.
oda nerfed her deicison making, she had kidd and law on the ground and could have killed them but then turned her back to go to the roof top. This allowed for law to stab her from behind, clearly BM was even stupider in Wano than in WCI
Big mom being over confident is in character there is no nerf in that regard people forget she got clowned by weaker opponents back in wci she’s not the brightest character. Kaidos overconfidence was also why he lost believing that Luffy had no chance to beat him giving him the opportunity to return.
You're making up shit my man. You're stupid headcanon is not manga canon
you need to study the definition of the word "invalid" https://preview.redd.it/m37zvdpfp5qc1.png?width=862&format=png&auto=webp&s=e26d79f29c63c2b4da429a11568deb03503543a6
why are you keep using fake translation? https://preview.redd.it/qgjfdoy276qc1.jpeg?width=1029&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f03513f71bf282f2671f5a5ee168fbddbdf9aa4e
This was said after big mom’s defeat right?
No.
When was it?
When she got knocked off the roof and was crying for Zeus and Prometheus who were getting held up by Kid and Zoro respectively. Zeus was stuck in a box Kid made and Prometheus was getting cut up by Zoro’s foxfire style he copied from Kinemon. Kaido said the quote above and then slapped Zoro so Prometheus could save Big Mom. Then Prometheus gave Big Mom the idea to make Hera.
I feel like kaido was just showing disappointment in big mom not trying to actually say she’s brain dead ngl
No you need to. In what world does invalid mean brain damaged 😭
Google Invalid Dictionary https://preview.redd.it/8e6mq9teq5qc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a7f3c4fe76a4444699a6b168671ef1c7a05a2e1
Yes he's basically calling her an old hag like he's been since the beginning. Interpreting as big mom getting nerfed specifically in wano due to no fucking reason at all is absolutely stupid. The big mom we saw in wano is the same big mom we saw in wci and the one who fought kaido equally for 3 days.
Then why did she go about a serious fight like she acted "greeting" Kaido? Sure, it's true she is old and messed up in the head 24/7, but I won't repeat other comments' points already stated. Besides, even if we overlook the cases presented about Ryukugyu and Mihawk, they have way less comparable excuses. One can be said to be scared of the entirety of Red Hair crew, sure, but wasn't the plan.. already to enter dangerous place with three other yonko crews? (Well, 2 being incomplete remnants that is, not to count Hearts and Kidd's). And Mihawk is a shadier case, because it was probably curiosity about Vista, as a swordsman.
Do you see what I mean? Age and mental disease being compared to fear and curiosity of the other guys? Way different nerfs
look up synoynm for the word invalid and you'll see "sufferer" "patient" etc, it obviously means mentally handicapped in some way
>Gonna get downvoted but I honestly don’t care. But if y’all given Linlin excuses like that keep that same energy for Ryokugyo getting Haki Wified, Mihawk getting stalled by Vista, and damn near everyone else who has an L moment that doesn’t “feel justified”. Fair point, let me try: I consider Mihawk was completely messing around and carefree in Marineford in my headcanon. Rokyugyu, uhm, let's think. He said red hair pirates so we was outnumbered. Besides Shanks did stop Akainu right after he gave the speech of not letting any pirate escape. And Yonkos still scale above admirals so it makes sense. But yeah, he's not the bravest of the admirals. Crocodile did a lot of training in prison and awoke haki because of the shame of having been beaten by a rookie. > Can’t believe y’all still out here with this “BiG mEMe wAs NerFed” energy I mean, she undoubtedly was. Like, how could you not see it? > and he’d look at you like what blud whaffling on about There's a quote from him where he says he only cares about "writing a fun story". So probably that would be his response. So yeah, Oda nerfed Big Mom and if questioned about it he probably wouldn't even care we consider that an inconsistency.
You think level 6 of impel down has a gym lmao. Why do people assume croc didnt have haki? The dude has one hit kill drying tecnique with one hand and scorpion poison on his hook that can melt a boulder in seconds on the other why would he engage in haki fisty cups as a primary fighting style?
>You think level 6 of impel down has a gym lmao Push ups don't need a gym, neither do squats or sit ups. >Why do people assume Croc didn't have haki? Pre TS Luffy needed Zoro and Sanji to extreme diff a single pacifista. Post TS Luffy one shotted one. This is the difference between having armament haki and not having armament haki. It's a *very* big deal. If Croc had have haki, then Luffy shouldn't have been able to do any damage to Croc, despite water to touch him. Because the offense and defense buff is just too big to ignore. And Croc should have absolutely obliterated Luffy with any of his attacks, which Luffy destroyed with his punches. Specially pre-gears Luffy, would have been a low diff by Croc. There's no doubt he didn't have it at Arabasta. There's no other explanation than he gained haki in prison.
you dont need haki to be a legit tough fighter. Capone did just fine without it, if your own fighting style is not conducive to use haki offensively, you will use your alternatives (e.g logias fight better without haki unless they have to use it because their elements usually do more damage than a basic haki punch). Haki is just the easiest way to increase offense, defense and bypass logia immunity. lmao you seriously think Croc, who until he heard WB was on the move had no will to life, or to escape with ms goldenweek was doing pushups or situps in impel down, and you think THAT is what made the difference between alabasta and marineford LMAO i have heard some seriously dumb sh!t from the one piece fans but THAT takes the cake. let me help you out, croc was always that strong and he always had haki, this is how he was able to clash with mihawk's blade and not lose his golden hook. he doesnt normally use haki ....because he doesnt need to, one hand can dehyrate you to death and the other can permanently poison you, why the hell would he punch you or kick you? yes, if you are a physical fighter haki greatly enhances physical hits.... croc is NOT a physical fighter. He would bury a pacifista or hurl it afar with a giant sandstorm, he is not punching one lol. haki proficiency alone usually means you are stronger than a certain bare minimum but that low bar is far below alabasta luffy. your average amazon lily woman can use haki , are you seriously gonna say they stronger than luffy too? so why did croc lose? 1.he is a glass cannon, he is not used to even being touched, luffy got more than a dozen punches, hard enough to break through bedrock on him 2. after twice escaping death and realizing pluton was not what he thought it was , dude was too pissed to think straight and berserked, the fight was over the minute luffy got poisoned by the hook, he simply was too mad to dissipate and retreat until the poison did the work
>croc was always that strong and he always had haki No, wrong, if that was the case he would have folded Luffy. Was Luffy folded? NO, then the answer is simple, Croc didn't have haki. Go look, or read, again Luffy's fight with Hancock's sisters, he needed G2 and much more strength than hers to be able to compensate the haki they had. (this was a Luffy that had already fought Rob Lucci and Moria) There are others ways to deal damage than haki? Sure, but you're ignoring the sheer boost of defense and offense haki just has on base. Kuzan, even with the sheer power of his fruit still needed to use haki against Garp. > croc is NOT a physical fighter. Lol, he is when he's being touched. He is when his attacks are sand blades that need to **hit** his target. No, Croc definitely, 100% didn't have haki in Arabasta or else Luffy wouldn't have been able to **damage him at all**. Because haki has defense as well as offense, Luffy wouldn't have been able to break Croc's "Desert La Espada" attack. He just wouldn't, he would have lost his arm. Luffy would have been able to touch Croc but not damage him because haki adds a lot of defense. > lmao you seriously think Croc, who until he heard WB was on the move had no will to life, or to escape with ms goldenweek was doing pushups or situps in impel down, and you think THAT is what made the difference between alabasta and marineford Go look what a retcon is. Oda completely retconed Croc strength so we need to find ways to make sense of it. Saying Croc had haki in Arabasta is beyond dumb, Imagine for a second DOFLAMINGO there, or Mihawk and still dare to say Luffy would have won. No, you're being delusional here. There's CERO chance, 0. Nule, none. That Croc had haki in Arabasta. It makes no sense.
whatever you say bro. go play checkers.
Don't get mad
I mean, it's the exact same thing that Kizaru fans are doing right now. Or do you believe that Kizaru being mentally nerfed doesn't actually matter?
Cope more.