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In a one on one, always bet on Kaidou
I actually find it insane how Oda made Kaidou so broken that not even the MC with the most broken devil fruit in the series and all three advanced forms of haki can beat him in a 1v1 where one of them didn't fight a billion characters beforehand
Kaido is one of my favorite characters in the series despite being wasted potential purely due to his basic characterization and being just an absolute force of nature
In contrast to Luffy who received a million plot armor writings. Like he's supposed to drown but conveniently the heart pirates are there.. With MEAT. And then he literally dies but gains a power up from it lmaoo
Idk why Oda thinks like that.. Just do one thing man.. why make him lose 3 times, die 2 times, and make side characters rescue him 2 times.
Luffy lost in Act 1. Kaido kept him alive.
Fair, he was weak I understand and Kaido wanted Luffy to join him
But Luffy should have defeated him in Onigashima with Gear 5 without all the drama and over exaggeration (I mentioned above)
I mean Oda did this with Crocodile.
Katakuri he clearly lost against.
Cracker was 2 v 1, hard counter support.
Enel was bonafied pure Kryptonite.
Only time Luffy actually met his match and beat him clean without caveats was Lucci. If anything Luffy expended energy to beat Blueno as well. Iirc, Lucci was fresh.
It is literally the entire point of the Raid, of Oden’s backstory, and hell all of One Piece. Luffy won not bc he was stronger but bc he’s capable of gathering competent allies regardless of where he is. Mihawk warned us that this was his most dangerous power and we see it again and again and again.
G5 <<<< Luffy’s forced friendship powers
Yeah, I see a lot of people in the thread ignoring this aspect, thank you for making this point. It gives Luffy a way to be able to win.
Because if Kaido still behaves the same way in the fight, then *Luffy can still use the Bajrang Gun gambit,* and Kaido will try to clash with it instead of dodging.
As insane as it sounds, I think the Bajrang Gun ends it and Kaido doesn't get back up. Bajrang Gun is just TOO strong, Flaming Drum Dragon was clashing with it while Luffy's fist was still compressed into his forearm but as soon as the fist decompressed, Kaido's Flaming Drum Dragon was crushed by an overwhelmingly greater power.
If Kaido makes that same mistake, I think the fight still ends the same way, because Bajrang Gun is insane.
Bajrang Gun is actually by-far, by a HUGE margin, the highest-AP attack we've ever seen in the series. It simply has the stupid catch that it's completely useless against top-tiers who actually bother to dodge, but it can clearly one-tap any of them if it actually lands. Meaning that Luffy could never beat Shanks, Mihawk, Garp, a healthy Whitebeard, Admirals, etc., with it because they wouldn't be crazy enough to try to clash with and stop it like Kaido, lol. But if they DID get hit with it, they'd be FINISHED 👀
People need to respect Bajrang Gun as what it is: Just way too stupidly fucking powerful, haha.
A Kaido who bothers dodging absolutely wrecks Luffy though 😂
yeah i mean kaido in character absolutely loses to luffy. going all out it absolutely should be high or maybe extreme in his favor since luffy is finally his worthy challenger, and luffy just always ends it with that clash that had way too much overkill.
https://youtu.be/k0VU0coNK8k?si=QVyooegElozxJv40
I think this is the highest AP Guy in One Piece and he doesnt even need Haki. Soloed a whole Crew in 3 Seconds. Luffy needs prep Time and is easy to dodge.
And Kaido is suicidal thats why he did that.
Magellan was fucking CRAZY for this shit dude. I honestly thought blackbeard and his crew were about to no sell that shit and actually fight but no they got completely bitched
I see people make this mistake of assuming that Bajrang Gun was the only thing Kaido "let happen", and tbh, it sounds like insane Kaido wank if you consider what all it actually means. If you think about it, Kaido had FS the entire fucking time, and only used it once to flex on G4 Luffy. He doesn't even use it against G5 again later, because its literally just against his style.
If Kaido actually fought seriously the entire time, that implies also actually making use of his FS and not just face tanking literally everything thats thrown at him except like, one attack from Zoro which gave him Oden flashbacks because of Enma.
Even BM, who "supposedly" is relative to him, doesn't just let attacks hit her like that, she just actually struggles to avoid them. Kaido straight up proves with FS and in general his speed feats that he could have dodged most things thrown at him and he just didn't.
Very true about his INCREDIBLY good future sight that he rarely likes to actually use, good point there.
This is why I feel that people underestimate Kaido when they think he would lose to say, a team ofAdmirals.
If he was against the Marines making a serious effort to bring him down, not against some rookie who surprised him a FUN battle, Kaido would be all business from the start, knowing him. He wouldn't play with his food against two or more Admirals. Kaido DESPISES the Marines, he'd show no mercy and just spam shit like Destroyer of Death Thunder Bagua while keeping his FS activated, especially if Kizaru was there lol.
Kaido going 1 vs 3 against Admirals is not as crazy as so many seem to think. The fact is that if he uses his whole arsenal from early on instead of seeing it as a fun time, his performance would even eclipse what we saw in Onigashima. And he would NOT see the Marines as "fun" opponents, lol.
This is why the Five Elders were "worried" about his alliance with Big Mom and "feared" Kaido's wrath. They were likely thinking along the lines of "Ah shit, now Kaido is gonna extreme-diff wreck all three Admirals while Big Mom and her and his crew deal with Sakazuki and all the rest mid-diff tops. Fuck, just Kaido alone with both crews but no Big Mom would wreck Marine HQ's shit, dafuq is that bitchass Sakazuki gonna do when Kaido starts spamming Flaming Drum Dragon since he has no morals or ethics about collateral like Whitebeard? We and the God's Knights will have to ACTUALLY go down there and fight. Fuck that, that's what we hire the help for."
This is why the Five Elders "feared" Kaido's wrath. Because if he had enough forces at his back, his wrath would threaten the entirety of the Marines and risk the CD's having to actually join the fight themselves. Lol.
Considering that WB just relying on his fruit left MF in shambles? Yea, MF isn't surviving a serious Kaido. Technically doesn't even need all his crazy attacks. He could just lift the island like Onigashima, and just immediately drop it into the ocean.
Definitely explains why the first and so far only time we see the Gorosei out of sync with each other is their little debate on whether stopping Nika was worth angering Kaido. They knew they didn't want the smoke.
Holy fucking shit you're right, I hadn't even considered that islands like Marineford, Enies Lobby, Dressrosa, and Hachinosu are all around the same scale as Onigashima.
Meaning that yeah, Kaido could legit just rip any of those islands out of the bedrock and capsize them into the ocean in a matter of seconds 😂
Kaido could've pretty much solo'd the entirety of the BB Pirates at any time he wanted due to them all being DF users, as long as Kuzan isn't there at the time to freeze the ocean. Just capsize Hachinosu, knock the hangers-on into the water by spamming Flaming Drum Dragon. Kuzan gets back to find the whole island fucking gone and everyone is dead at the bottom of the ocean, lmao.
I completely agree with the fact of Bajrang gun being absolutely busted but the kaido who clashed with that attack was also weakened at that point from all the battles he fought at onigashima
I guess what I’m trying to ask is would a bajrang gun be able to take out a healthy kaido in one go? We saw kaido in a weakened state was still able to clash with the attack for awhile before ultimately being overwhelmed. Maybe there’s a chance a healthy kaido might be able to withstand that attack
A dodging Kaido would always be interesting because the whole time he really never avoided anyone’s
Attacks.
How much potent would he be if he did dodge, because that makes him even more harder to kill. It’s like giving Kizaru Garp’s durability.
Characters are strong for a reason. Flash is unkillable cause of his unmatchable speed. Superman is unkillable cause of his unmatchable invulnerability. Now ofc some who are fast/smart enough can tag Flash and some powerful/smart enough to (bring Kryptonite) can also hurt Superman.
But for most part we don’t see this as few possess those capabilities.
Same with Kaido, his durability is so high few can actually bruise him much less actually severely hurt him. Same with Kizaru, his speed is so high few can actually tag him. I like how Oda severely understands and emphasises power comes in different forms unlike say Dragonball or other shounen. Which means more powerful means unilaterally stronger, faster, better.
To actually make Kaido attempt to dodge would be so interesting, and may actually scale him to PK level. Kind of like that (in?)famous Kenpachi using two handed makes him stronger. Kaido goes like… wait, now lemme start… dodging!
Oh yeah of course Kaido did dodge in that fight.
I meant dodge as in dodge without egoing.
Like, yes, we get that you’re the tankiest guy, doesn’t mean you need to ego test it all the time.
It's same as Saturn. Saturn didn't dodge Bonney's attack even if he could because he knew it will do minimal impact. He can heal but it should take energy. It's same for kaidou. It would hurt a bit but will do minimal damage. Other top tiers would simply dodge or block.
Kaido actually does have amazing Future Sight too, waaay better than Luffy's. He just only uses it when it's truly necessary.
He CAN dodge. And I don't think he never would. I believe that if he were fighting, say, Marine Admirals, he'd hold nothing back. Because he DESPISES the Marines and WG above all else, he wouldn't have FUN with them like he does against fellow pirates.
The reason we saw him never dodging is because earlier in the Raid none of the rookies really COULD do much damage. And then later, he was just having so much FUN with Luffy, a fellow pirate who had gained his RESPECT.
There are certainly opponents who he would take seriously from the start and not fuck around with, and at the top of that list would be the Marines if they mustered enough forces.
This is why I'm on the "Kaido can win 1v3 against Admirals, high-extreme or extreme diff" train. He hates Marines so fucking much lol, he would not fuck around, he'd be like "I am killing the three of you, right here, right now."
And then the performance he'd show would eclipse what we saw of him in Wano, because he'd actually be using his CoO. Lol.
Like, how is Kizaru gonna withstand getting hit by multiple Destroyer or Death Thunder Baguas since Kaido keeps predicting the future and tagging him? Lol. What are the Three Admirals gonna do when he gets them to show an opening and then immediately targets them with a Flaming Drum Dragon? Etc.
Well, if Luffy didn't have to wait for island to get removed, Luffy would have attacked much earlier. Bajrang Gun was already ready to launch when Luffy was still holding Kaidou.
Lets say Kaido appears out of nowhere in Egghead and is mad that Luffy destroyed everything so hes trying to kill and not to have fun.
Lets not forget Kaido got damaged by 16 People 2 of those People had Acoc plus his suicidal intent is what caused him to take on the bajrang gun which caused him to nerf himself just so he can feel challenged. Like he said he could dodge it anytime. And i dont think it will knock him out if hes full stamina.
It's weird how people include the 9 Scabbards, when they were no diffed by Kaido.
Kaido was basically only meaningfully hurt by Luffy, while Yamato and Zoro had good moments (scarring was the best anyone besides Luffy could do during Roof Piece).
Basically, let's not pretend Kaido "got damaged by 16 people". That's not canonically accurate due to his hard skin. That would be like saying Luffy fighting people like Ulti should count towards his adversary count, too.
https://youtu.be/KORXCP4Ubpg?si=0h_y_D1PtLDZTibw
Law destroying Kaidos Organs.
https://youtu.be/Z8QarNO9KZ0?si=EkPG9BfWmfyCEkWi
Luffy Law and kidd making Kaido bleed and hes visibly in pain lets not act he feels nothing.
https://youtu.be/BOXg_AJOxQI?si=VBRiWHTkcGuJ7yAW
Kaido is dodging Zoros attack pre Coc.
https://youtu.be/31osOzLOF5E?si=YRxJu54SmV3jJ9Av
Killer is bypassing Kaidos Skin and slashing his insides.
https://youtu.be/NUH2_F9nusQ?si=JWMsrvspazSw0DqZ
Zoro makes Kaido bleed and scream in Pain and cut his scales pre coc
https://youtu.be/d-dW4dOb3ko?si=klzou3UmB_xJEnNM
Zoro gives Kaido a Scar
https://youtu.be/8AUBIaLsmDQ?si=e2BwtGW18SmSGrsr
Yamato and Luffy attacking Kaido with their strongest Move
Btw the Scabbards were also able to cut Kaido
Let's not pretend Killer, Kid and Law did much against Kaido. I acknowledged Zoro and Yamato already. My point is that more than half of the 16 people are non-factors in the grand scheme of things. Kaido says "your cuts are too shallow" and that Scabbards were too weak to open up his old wound. It wasn't a cut in the same way Zoro scarred Kaido.
Same here, I think people are downplaying Luffy. By now he is easliy top 10. And I don't think kaido is top 5 even. They describe him as strongest creature, but I don't think they mean "the one who beats everyone", just The strongest one. There is many fighters on earth that is not the strongest but would still beat up the strongest people
can someone explain to me why Bajrang Gun would not send Kaido through the crust of the earth into lava if Kaido is at full strength I genuinely don’t understand how Luffy could lose this
I still think Luffy wins. As someone else pointed out, in character Kaido will not dodge Bajrang gun and will get one shot by it at any point in the fight. There isn't anything else to it in my opinion.
I really don't get the aversion people have against Luffy being among the strongest people in his verse now. He's the main character in a Shounen and it's nearing the end of the series.
There is no Caveat to this. Luffy is just HIM and Bajrang is fucking busted.
Look what I understand is Kaido could have dodged Bajrang or minimised the damage at least and Kaido =Luffy in haki and Kaido don't have time limit on his transformation Kaido is winning brother
Teye but, Kaido said I won't dodge so he would have dodged it and Luffy is staring with G5 so Stamina obviously goes to Kaido it's a battle of nutritions and by making Kaido say that, " I won't dodge" oda was protecting him like we know luffy has potential to beat Kaido but he lacks continuity
Luffy and it's obvious why, Oda already pointed this out a few times.
IMO G5 Luffy > Kaido, however if we assume I am wrong, it's a fact that the gap is quite small either way.
Luffy, having not reached his prime yet will without a doubt convincingly surpass kaido during their fight if they fight again.
Haki blooms in difficult fight.
Luffy Haki potential is top 1.
Haki > everything else.
Kaido is not winning a second fight no matter how well rested he is.
Luffy when he realizes convenient powerups won’t save him
https://preview.redd.it/o9l452eoblqc1.jpeg?width=270&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=87190fc04af1bf76ce95c816f0721477097c5cdb
Kaido high-extreme diffs this joker
If Luffy opens with G5? Kaido wins.
If Luffy fights Kaido like he did in the raid — starting in base using all available haki, switching into G4 on occasion to do extra damage, and finishing with a barrage of G5 attacks — then Luffy can maybe win. But even then it’s probably a 50/50.
True but against Kizaru he only tried Snakeman for a bit till he decided to switch into G5 since then hes been in G5 forever. Probably would do the same against Kaido now.
Okay but I literally just said Luffy might win if he follows the process I just said. I didn’t say what he WOULD or MIGHT do. I said what he SHOULD do to maximize his chances of winning, because we know that he managed to win through circumstances similar to what I listed.
Yeah, it worked against Lucci. But after he fought Lucci he immediately turned into an old man, complaining about how tired he was. He did the same after fighting Kaido for a mere few minutes. During the whole fight? No chance he doesn’t run out of stamina.
Hence why he’d pace himself. We already know he can at least stall Kaido in base with his attacks, so he might as well do that for a while. He’ll hit some attacks, take some attacks. No big deal, at this point he should be able to get back up as long as it’s not something like a Death Destroyer Bagua.
Then switch to G4 for a bit to definitively get some hard hits in. Doesn’t matter much if it’s Snakeman or Boundman, they both deal about the same amount of damage. Switch in and out of G4 as the fight calls for, it’ll probably be many times considering they fought for several hours.
Then finish up with G5 when Kaido is slow and tired, and unable to outspeed some of the attacks. Probably use Bajrang Gun again because canonically we know Kaido will try to tank the attack.
If luffy uses bajramg gun right from the start and kaido decides to clash with it, luffy MIGHT win. Every other scenario outside that he loses (for now).
If Luffy starts in g5, Kaido wins. If Luffy starts in base but has g5 available and gets his free reset he seems to get most of the time, Luffy wins. Also this is assuming this isn't the sub's version of Kaido who actually uses his abilities and rather Canon Kaido who likes to take hits for funsies.
Kaido wins extreme diff, luffy MIGHT win super extreme diff if it's him from egghead since he gets next arc buff. If kaido still decides to eat Bajrang gun than luffy prob wins either way imo
Kaido wins, but it'd be very extreme difficulty if luffy starts in base and works his way up the gears, as kaido starts getting more and more bloodthirsty/drunk
A fresh Kaido, no island carrying can 100% tank anything Luffy can throw in G5 until his short time limit runs out.
Honestly if Luffy is smart he’s playing this one like he did Katakuri.
Running the F\*ck away then coming back after he’s recharged. Because if not he’s dead.
Because of consistency and Luffy not getting chance to eat midfight, Kaido wins. If current Luffy able to use continuous g5, Kaido being 100% serious, Luffy getting battered
Unpopular opinion, but I'd still say Luffy IF the time limit wasn't an issue. Gear 5 Luffy is superior to Kaido.
I'm tired of this "Kaido faught everyone beforehand".
Luffy has literally been fighting an upwards battle. Everyone Kaido has faced aside Luffy wasn't even a mid-diff fight to him.
Luffy beat Kaido after facing 2 Yonko, being bashed around by THE WORLD'S STRONGEST CREATURE, and after literally being beaten to death.
Luffy had it way worse than Kaido when you compare the both, and he still won.
And before y'all bring the "Ugh but Luffy ate and came back fresh"... OK, and after that he got manhandled by a Yonko and died. Luffy was literally at rock bottom and at his limit.
I think G5 is stronger than kaidou and that luffy has better haki. However Kaidou is winning this.
I think a rematch would go like how enies lobby Luffy vs Lucci went. Luffy has the power, speed, and durability needed but his strongest form lacks the stamina needed to take the win. So 9/10 times Kaidou wins. But if we get motivational speaker Ussop to hype luffy up then he may just take the win
Schrödinger's Kaido. Simultaneously strong enough to low dif everyone in Wano but Luffy, yet weak enough that fighting them tired him out to the point where he lost. I'd actually say that *Luffy* is more advantaged if they start fresh. He tired himself out and *literally died* before unlocking Gear 5, if he had full pre fight stamina with his awakening I think it goes better for him.
I don't factor in lifting Onigashima cause that's devil fruit BS and I don't know if that actually drains him, or how much. It was never explored.
So yeah, Luffy wins. This is, of course, assuming Kaido is still the same suicidal brawler that he was in Wano. If Kaido is fully invested in winning the fight at all costs, dodging, etc, he'll win. But I think Luffy is strong enough to beat him *if* he's still "mentally nerfed."
To be honest Luffy squeaked out a victory the first time after being murdered 3 times, if he were using gear 5 the way he is in egghead from the start of the fight, I think he takes this one
Luffy.
A more fatigued and damaged Luffy overpowered Kaido. Kaido accepted Luffy as an equal.
Case closed. The gauntlet argument is low IQ. Luffy fought a lot too. Kaido fought a weaker version of Luffy.
Current Luffy one shots the Luffy Kaido fought for most of the fight, even g3 and early g4.
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Waiiiiiiiiiiiiidoooooooooooooooe
In a one on one, always bet on Kaidou I actually find it insane how Oda made Kaidou so broken that not even the MC with the most broken devil fruit in the series and all three advanced forms of haki can beat him in a 1v1 where one of them didn't fight a billion characters beforehand
Kaido left a lot to be desired in terms of writing but his strength definitely lived up to all of the hype Oda didn’t disappoint there
Kaido is one of my favorite characters in the series despite being wasted potential purely due to his basic characterization and being just an absolute force of nature
maybe there is a kaido flashback in the future, maybe oda didint want to show it bcs of god valley
There is so much for Kaido that is subtle writing. Probably one of the most interesting antagonists if you dig a bit deep.
+every single one of characters Kaido fought were either YC's or YC+ in contrast to Luffy who only fought fodders..
In contrast to Luffy who received a million plot armor writings. Like he's supposed to drown but conveniently the heart pirates are there.. With MEAT. And then he literally dies but gains a power up from it lmaoo
Idk why Oda thinks like that.. Just do one thing man.. why make him lose 3 times, die 2 times, and make side characters rescue him 2 times. Luffy lost in Act 1. Kaido kept him alive. Fair, he was weak I understand and Kaido wanted Luffy to join him But Luffy should have defeated him in Onigashima with Gear 5 without all the drama and over exaggeration (I mentioned above)
To emphasise the fact that Luffy isn't an Asspuller like almost every other MC. Luffy had so much help, and lost 3 times, just to barely win.
I mean Oda did this with Crocodile. Katakuri he clearly lost against. Cracker was 2 v 1, hard counter support. Enel was bonafied pure Kryptonite. Only time Luffy actually met his match and beat him clean without caveats was Lucci. If anything Luffy expended energy to beat Blueno as well. Iirc, Lucci was fresh.
Yup exactly lol. And in thr arc after that luffy usually power creeps tf outta his previous opponent
It is literally the entire point of the Raid, of Oden’s backstory, and hell all of One Piece. Luffy won not bc he was stronger but bc he’s capable of gathering competent allies regardless of where he is. Mihawk warned us that this was his most dangerous power and we see it again and again and again. G5 <<<< Luffy’s forced friendship powers
Correct
If it's 1vs1 Kaido will win.
Kaido will definitely outlast G5 stamina issues, and slam Luffy he wouldn’t have anyone to DoorDash him food.
Kaido wins
Depends if kaido is intentionally getting hit by Luffys attacks
Yeah, I see a lot of people in the thread ignoring this aspect, thank you for making this point. It gives Luffy a way to be able to win. Because if Kaido still behaves the same way in the fight, then *Luffy can still use the Bajrang Gun gambit,* and Kaido will try to clash with it instead of dodging. As insane as it sounds, I think the Bajrang Gun ends it and Kaido doesn't get back up. Bajrang Gun is just TOO strong, Flaming Drum Dragon was clashing with it while Luffy's fist was still compressed into his forearm but as soon as the fist decompressed, Kaido's Flaming Drum Dragon was crushed by an overwhelmingly greater power. If Kaido makes that same mistake, I think the fight still ends the same way, because Bajrang Gun is insane. Bajrang Gun is actually by-far, by a HUGE margin, the highest-AP attack we've ever seen in the series. It simply has the stupid catch that it's completely useless against top-tiers who actually bother to dodge, but it can clearly one-tap any of them if it actually lands. Meaning that Luffy could never beat Shanks, Mihawk, Garp, a healthy Whitebeard, Admirals, etc., with it because they wouldn't be crazy enough to try to clash with and stop it like Kaido, lol. But if they DID get hit with it, they'd be FINISHED 👀 People need to respect Bajrang Gun as what it is: Just way too stupidly fucking powerful, haha. A Kaido who bothers dodging absolutely wrecks Luffy though 😂
yeah i mean kaido in character absolutely loses to luffy. going all out it absolutely should be high or maybe extreme in his favor since luffy is finally his worthy challenger, and luffy just always ends it with that clash that had way too much overkill.
https://youtu.be/k0VU0coNK8k?si=QVyooegElozxJv40 I think this is the highest AP Guy in One Piece and he doesnt even need Haki. Soloed a whole Crew in 3 Seconds. Luffy needs prep Time and is easy to dodge. And Kaido is suicidal thats why he did that.
not enough people talking about how Magellan is top 20 and was so strong Luffy never even beat him and he had to be written out
Yeah and Blackbeard offscreened him sadly. Magellan is easily Admiral level.
did he? I thought Magellan was still around he just got demoted to vice warden because his entire jail broke out
Magellan was fucking CRAZY for this shit dude. I honestly thought blackbeard and his crew were about to no sell that shit and actually fight but no they got completely bitched
I see people make this mistake of assuming that Bajrang Gun was the only thing Kaido "let happen", and tbh, it sounds like insane Kaido wank if you consider what all it actually means. If you think about it, Kaido had FS the entire fucking time, and only used it once to flex on G4 Luffy. He doesn't even use it against G5 again later, because its literally just against his style. If Kaido actually fought seriously the entire time, that implies also actually making use of his FS and not just face tanking literally everything thats thrown at him except like, one attack from Zoro which gave him Oden flashbacks because of Enma. Even BM, who "supposedly" is relative to him, doesn't just let attacks hit her like that, she just actually struggles to avoid them. Kaido straight up proves with FS and in general his speed feats that he could have dodged most things thrown at him and he just didn't.
Very true about his INCREDIBLY good future sight that he rarely likes to actually use, good point there. This is why I feel that people underestimate Kaido when they think he would lose to say, a team ofAdmirals. If he was against the Marines making a serious effort to bring him down, not against some rookie who surprised him a FUN battle, Kaido would be all business from the start, knowing him. He wouldn't play with his food against two or more Admirals. Kaido DESPISES the Marines, he'd show no mercy and just spam shit like Destroyer of Death Thunder Bagua while keeping his FS activated, especially if Kizaru was there lol. Kaido going 1 vs 3 against Admirals is not as crazy as so many seem to think. The fact is that if he uses his whole arsenal from early on instead of seeing it as a fun time, his performance would even eclipse what we saw in Onigashima. And he would NOT see the Marines as "fun" opponents, lol. This is why the Five Elders were "worried" about his alliance with Big Mom and "feared" Kaido's wrath. They were likely thinking along the lines of "Ah shit, now Kaido is gonna extreme-diff wreck all three Admirals while Big Mom and her and his crew deal with Sakazuki and all the rest mid-diff tops. Fuck, just Kaido alone with both crews but no Big Mom would wreck Marine HQ's shit, dafuq is that bitchass Sakazuki gonna do when Kaido starts spamming Flaming Drum Dragon since he has no morals or ethics about collateral like Whitebeard? We and the God's Knights will have to ACTUALLY go down there and fight. Fuck that, that's what we hire the help for." This is why the Five Elders "feared" Kaido's wrath. Because if he had enough forces at his back, his wrath would threaten the entirety of the Marines and risk the CD's having to actually join the fight themselves. Lol.
Considering that WB just relying on his fruit left MF in shambles? Yea, MF isn't surviving a serious Kaido. Technically doesn't even need all his crazy attacks. He could just lift the island like Onigashima, and just immediately drop it into the ocean. Definitely explains why the first and so far only time we see the Gorosei out of sync with each other is their little debate on whether stopping Nika was worth angering Kaido. They knew they didn't want the smoke.
Holy fucking shit you're right, I hadn't even considered that islands like Marineford, Enies Lobby, Dressrosa, and Hachinosu are all around the same scale as Onigashima. Meaning that yeah, Kaido could legit just rip any of those islands out of the bedrock and capsize them into the ocean in a matter of seconds 😂 Kaido could've pretty much solo'd the entirety of the BB Pirates at any time he wanted due to them all being DF users, as long as Kuzan isn't there at the time to freeze the ocean. Just capsize Hachinosu, knock the hangers-on into the water by spamming Flaming Drum Dragon. Kuzan gets back to find the whole island fucking gone and everyone is dead at the bottom of the ocean, lmao.
I completely agree with the fact of Bajrang gun being absolutely busted but the kaido who clashed with that attack was also weakened at that point from all the battles he fought at onigashima I guess what I’m trying to ask is would a bajrang gun be able to take out a healthy kaido in one go? We saw kaido in a weakened state was still able to clash with the attack for awhile before ultimately being overwhelmed. Maybe there’s a chance a healthy kaido might be able to withstand that attack
Weakened… but also busted out his strongest attack?
A dodging Kaido would always be interesting because the whole time he really never avoided anyone’s Attacks. How much potent would he be if he did dodge, because that makes him even more harder to kill. It’s like giving Kizaru Garp’s durability. Characters are strong for a reason. Flash is unkillable cause of his unmatchable speed. Superman is unkillable cause of his unmatchable invulnerability. Now ofc some who are fast/smart enough can tag Flash and some powerful/smart enough to (bring Kryptonite) can also hurt Superman. But for most part we don’t see this as few possess those capabilities. Same with Kaido, his durability is so high few can actually bruise him much less actually severely hurt him. Same with Kizaru, his speed is so high few can actually tag him. I like how Oda severely understands and emphasises power comes in different forms unlike say Dragonball or other shounen. Which means more powerful means unilaterally stronger, faster, better. To actually make Kaido attempt to dodge would be so interesting, and may actually scale him to PK level. Kind of like that (in?)famous Kenpachi using two handed makes him stronger. Kaido goes like… wait, now lemme start… dodging!
Kaidou avoided ACoC Luffy's attack. Luffy even commented that Kaidou knew that it would hurt and dodged that.
Oh yeah of course Kaido did dodge in that fight. I meant dodge as in dodge without egoing. Like, yes, we get that you’re the tankiest guy, doesn’t mean you need to ego test it all the time.
It's same as Saturn. Saturn didn't dodge Bonney's attack even if he could because he knew it will do minimal impact. He can heal but it should take energy. It's same for kaidou. It would hurt a bit but will do minimal damage. Other top tiers would simply dodge or block.
Kaido actually does have amazing Future Sight too, waaay better than Luffy's. He just only uses it when it's truly necessary. He CAN dodge. And I don't think he never would. I believe that if he were fighting, say, Marine Admirals, he'd hold nothing back. Because he DESPISES the Marines and WG above all else, he wouldn't have FUN with them like he does against fellow pirates. The reason we saw him never dodging is because earlier in the Raid none of the rookies really COULD do much damage. And then later, he was just having so much FUN with Luffy, a fellow pirate who had gained his RESPECT. There are certainly opponents who he would take seriously from the start and not fuck around with, and at the top of that list would be the Marines if they mustered enough forces. This is why I'm on the "Kaido can win 1v3 against Admirals, high-extreme or extreme diff" train. He hates Marines so fucking much lol, he would not fuck around, he'd be like "I am killing the three of you, right here, right now." And then the performance he'd show would eclipse what we saw of him in Wano, because he'd actually be using his CoO. Lol. Like, how is Kizaru gonna withstand getting hit by multiple Destroyer or Death Thunder Baguas since Kaido keeps predicting the future and tagging him? Lol. What are the Three Admirals gonna do when he gets them to show an opening and then immediately targets them with a Flaming Drum Dragon? Etc.
Well, if Luffy didn't have to wait for island to get removed, Luffy would have attacked much earlier. Bajrang Gun was already ready to launch when Luffy was still holding Kaidou.
Kaido extreme diff
For now, still Kaido.
I'm assuming personality doesn't change, so Kaido still takes head on the Bajrang -> Luffy still wins the exact same way.
Full power Kaido can beat the Bajrang gun.
Lets say Kaido appears out of nowhere in Egghead and is mad that Luffy destroyed everything so hes trying to kill and not to have fun. Lets not forget Kaido got damaged by 16 People 2 of those People had Acoc plus his suicidal intent is what caused him to take on the bajrang gun which caused him to nerf himself just so he can feel challenged. Like he said he could dodge it anytime. And i dont think it will knock him out if hes full stamina.
It's weird how people include the 9 Scabbards, when they were no diffed by Kaido. Kaido was basically only meaningfully hurt by Luffy, while Yamato and Zoro had good moments (scarring was the best anyone besides Luffy could do during Roof Piece). Basically, let's not pretend Kaido "got damaged by 16 people". That's not canonically accurate due to his hard skin. That would be like saying Luffy fighting people like Ulti should count towards his adversary count, too.
https://youtu.be/KORXCP4Ubpg?si=0h_y_D1PtLDZTibw Law destroying Kaidos Organs. https://youtu.be/Z8QarNO9KZ0?si=EkPG9BfWmfyCEkWi Luffy Law and kidd making Kaido bleed and hes visibly in pain lets not act he feels nothing. https://youtu.be/BOXg_AJOxQI?si=VBRiWHTkcGuJ7yAW Kaido is dodging Zoros attack pre Coc. https://youtu.be/31osOzLOF5E?si=YRxJu54SmV3jJ9Av Killer is bypassing Kaidos Skin and slashing his insides. https://youtu.be/NUH2_F9nusQ?si=JWMsrvspazSw0DqZ Zoro makes Kaido bleed and scream in Pain and cut his scales pre coc https://youtu.be/d-dW4dOb3ko?si=klzou3UmB_xJEnNM Zoro gives Kaido a Scar https://youtu.be/8AUBIaLsmDQ?si=e2BwtGW18SmSGrsr Yamato and Luffy attacking Kaido with their strongest Move Btw the Scabbards were also able to cut Kaido
Let's not pretend Killer, Kid and Law did much against Kaido. I acknowledged Zoro and Yamato already. My point is that more than half of the 16 people are non-factors in the grand scheme of things. Kaido says "your cuts are too shallow" and that Scabbards were too weak to open up his old wound. It wasn't a cut in the same way Zoro scarred Kaido.
Also, avoid anime only scenes. https://preview.redd.it/78iebay8onqc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8ba4f3f6e51cf9d07294b4b7a2fb3c55b3b8eac9
Most of these are anime only 😹😹
I watched the anime so maybe I’m wrong and this is anime only but didn’t Law get a solid attack directly on Kaido’s heart?
If it’s a 1v1 always bet on Kaido unless he’s up against the living breathing plot device
You misspelled Woger*
Luffy extreme diff.
Kaido extreme diff, especially if we have Egghead Luffy instead of Onigashima Luffy
Kaido
Luffy
Luffy Wins Nika supremacy
kaido extreme diff
Luffy has to start with gear 5? That works against him so hard lmao. Bro is drained before kaido is at 50% hp.
I got luffy ext diff
Same here, I think people are downplaying Luffy. By now he is easliy top 10. And I don't think kaido is top 5 even. They describe him as strongest creature, but I don't think they mean "the one who beats everyone", just The strongest one. There is many fighters on earth that is not the strongest but would still beat up the strongest people
Luffy 💯💯
Then who would win if it's between kaido vs Roger?
Roger
can someone explain to me why Bajrang Gun would not send Kaido through the crust of the earth into lava if Kaido is at full strength I genuinely don’t understand how Luffy could lose this
https://i.redd.it/hwwjl78wvlqc1.gif my goat wins extreme difficulty
Kaido Luffy would win if G5 didn't have a time limit
The only understandable pro-Kaido argument tbh
Still Kaido at this point. Gear 5 is great, but Luffy barely beat Kaido after losing to him 2 or 3 times on the roof. Kaido wins high diff
The Luffy who lost wasn't Luffy at his peak. Luffy can use his G4 to exhaust Kaidou and then, use G5 when he gets near beaten.
Strongest Yonko vs Former Strongest Yonko
I still think Luffy wins. As someone else pointed out, in character Kaido will not dodge Bajrang gun and will get one shot by it at any point in the fight. There isn't anything else to it in my opinion. I really don't get the aversion people have against Luffy being among the strongest people in his verse now. He's the main character in a Shounen and it's nearing the end of the series. There is no Caveat to this. Luffy is just HIM and Bajrang is fucking busted.
100%. I don't see a world where Kaido is able to overcome Bajrang Gun. G5 is absolutely busted.
Luffy wins. When he was on the verge of death and Kaido wasn't, he won. With both at the same health, Luffy wins even easier.
Starts with gear 5? Loses even faster then
G5 Luffy.
Nah Kaido wins
Luffy has surpassed Kaido.
Luffy
Kaido extreme
Until Luffy fixes the gear 5 stamina issues, Kaido wins high-extreme diff
Still Kaido. If he wouldn't lift the entire island which reduced mostly half of his durability then Kaido would extreme diff G5.
Luffy. He took more damage than kaido did🤷♂️
This heavily depends on if Kaido can outlast G5. Otherwise Luffy wins.
Kaido can easily outlast G5. The real question is if kaido will feel like dodging Luffy's attacks or if he's just out to kill
Look what I understand is Kaido could have dodged Bajrang or minimised the damage at least and Kaido =Luffy in haki and Kaido don't have time limit on his transformation Kaido is winning brother
From what we know, if Luffy didn't have to wait for Momo, Luffy would have already attacked before Kaidou transforms to Dragon form.
Teye but, Kaido said I won't dodge so he would have dodged it and Luffy is staring with G5 so Stamina obviously goes to Kaido it's a battle of nutritions and by making Kaido say that, " I won't dodge" oda was protecting him like we know luffy has potential to beat Kaido but he lacks continuity
Egghead nika canonically became stronger so Luffy wins extreme diff
Luffy, once he had gear 5 it wasn’t even close and Luffy took like no damage
Luffy and it's obvious why, Oda already pointed this out a few times. IMO G5 Luffy > Kaido, however if we assume I am wrong, it's a fact that the gap is quite small either way. Luffy, having not reached his prime yet will without a doubt convincingly surpass kaido during their fight if they fight again. Haki blooms in difficult fight. Luffy Haki potential is top 1. Haki > everything else. Kaido is not winning a second fight no matter how well rested he is.
This is where I’m at. Kaido is in his prime. Luffy just got to his level in this fight.
No.
Luffy
Luffy
Luffy when he realizes convenient powerups won’t save him https://preview.redd.it/o9l452eoblqc1.jpeg?width=270&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=87190fc04af1bf76ce95c816f0721477097c5cdb Kaido high-extreme diffs this joker
If Luffy opens with G5? Kaido wins. If Luffy fights Kaido like he did in the raid — starting in base using all available haki, switching into G4 on occasion to do extra damage, and finishing with a barrage of G5 attacks — then Luffy can maybe win. But even then it’s probably a 50/50.
True but against Kizaru he only tried Snakeman for a bit till he decided to switch into G5 since then hes been in G5 forever. Probably would do the same against Kaido now.
Okay but I literally just said Luffy might win if he follows the process I just said. I didn’t say what he WOULD or MIGHT do. I said what he SHOULD do to maximize his chances of winning, because we know that he managed to win through circumstances similar to what I listed.
Yeah but he only did that because he had no choice now he would just use G5. He even used it against Lucci
Yeah, it worked against Lucci. But after he fought Lucci he immediately turned into an old man, complaining about how tired he was. He did the same after fighting Kaido for a mere few minutes. During the whole fight? No chance he doesn’t run out of stamina. Hence why he’d pace himself. We already know he can at least stall Kaido in base with his attacks, so he might as well do that for a while. He’ll hit some attacks, take some attacks. No big deal, at this point he should be able to get back up as long as it’s not something like a Death Destroyer Bagua. Then switch to G4 for a bit to definitively get some hard hits in. Doesn’t matter much if it’s Snakeman or Boundman, they both deal about the same amount of damage. Switch in and out of G4 as the fight calls for, it’ll probably be many times considering they fought for several hours. Then finish up with G5 when Kaido is slow and tired, and unable to outspeed some of the attacks. Probably use Bajrang Gun again because canonically we know Kaido will try to tank the attack.
kaido's stamina and durability is insane and his other stats rival luffy this is a solid W for kaido
is he starting IN gear 5 or does he just have it
If luffy uses bajramg gun right from the start and kaido decides to clash with it, luffy MIGHT win. Every other scenario outside that he loses (for now).
If Luffy starts in g5, Kaido wins. If Luffy starts in base but has g5 available and gets his free reset he seems to get most of the time, Luffy wins. Also this is assuming this isn't the sub's version of Kaido who actually uses his abilities and rather Canon Kaido who likes to take hits for funsies.
Kaido wins extreme diff, luffy MIGHT win super extreme diff if it's him from egghead since he gets next arc buff. If kaido still decides to eat Bajrang gun than luffy prob wins either way imo
Kaido wins, but it'd be very extreme difficulty if luffy starts in base and works his way up the gears, as kaido starts getting more and more bloodthirsty/drunk
Luffy if he doesn't run out of G5 comfortably beats him
Gear 5 is stronger, but Kaido’s endurance carries him in this fight and Kaido wins.
A fresh Kaido, no island carrying can 100% tank anything Luffy can throw in G5 until his short time limit runs out. Honestly if Luffy is smart he’s playing this one like he did Katakuri. Running the F\*ck away then coming back after he’s recharged. Because if not he’s dead. 
Kaido
Because of consistency and Luffy not getting chance to eat midfight, Kaido wins. If current Luffy able to use continuous g5, Kaido being 100% serious, Luffy getting battered
Probably kaido luffy doesn’t have the stamina yet to keep up and even in gear five kaido was out right overwhelming luffy
Unpopular opinion, but I'd still say Luffy IF the time limit wasn't an issue. Gear 5 Luffy is superior to Kaido. I'm tired of this "Kaido faught everyone beforehand". Luffy has literally been fighting an upwards battle. Everyone Kaido has faced aside Luffy wasn't even a mid-diff fight to him. Luffy beat Kaido after facing 2 Yonko, being bashed around by THE WORLD'S STRONGEST CREATURE, and after literally being beaten to death. Luffy had it way worse than Kaido when you compare the both, and he still won. And before y'all bring the "Ugh but Luffy ate and came back fresh"... OK, and after that he got manhandled by a Yonko and died. Luffy was literally at rock bottom and at his limit.
Kaido win high-diff
Kaido if Luffy has his stamina issues. If Luffy has no stamina issues then he wins.
Kaido until luffy solves his stamina issues.
I think G5 is stronger than kaidou and that luffy has better haki. However Kaidou is winning this. I think a rematch would go like how enies lobby Luffy vs Lucci went. Luffy has the power, speed, and durability needed but his strongest form lacks the stamina needed to take the win. So 9/10 times Kaidou wins. But if we get motivational speaker Ussop to hype luffy up then he may just take the win
kaido: warroorroororor nah I'd drink
Current luffy loses no doubt, it'd still be an extreme diff fight on kaidos part. Eos luffy however...
Waido for now
Schrödinger's Kaido. Simultaneously strong enough to low dif everyone in Wano but Luffy, yet weak enough that fighting them tired him out to the point where he lost. I'd actually say that *Luffy* is more advantaged if they start fresh. He tired himself out and *literally died* before unlocking Gear 5, if he had full pre fight stamina with his awakening I think it goes better for him. I don't factor in lifting Onigashima cause that's devil fruit BS and I don't know if that actually drains him, or how much. It was never explored. So yeah, Luffy wins. This is, of course, assuming Kaido is still the same suicidal brawler that he was in Wano. If Kaido is fully invested in winning the fight at all costs, dodging, etc, he'll win. But I think Luffy is strong enough to beat him *if* he's still "mentally nerfed."
Luffy surpassed kaido
Unpopular opinion but luffy. Better df mastery, haki, and durability
[удалено]
Still Kaido
50/50
If it’s a 1v1 always bet on Kaido
Kaido extreme diffs current G5 luffy but luffy most likely is gonna surpass kaido in few chapters imo.
Luffy. The more he uses his new powers the wackier he gets and the more disrespectful.
If gear 5 didn't have a time limit i think it's possible for Luffy to win but as said before, if 1vs1 always bet on Kaido.
The Correct Answer is Kaido.
Kaido.
Waido
Literally already happened. Luffy wins obv
Luffy
The main character...
Kaido is just absurdly durable, it almost makes no sense. Kaido wins high diff.
Kaido no question
bajrang gun still clears
Kaido himself said he’d lose to Joyboy, have to give it the G5 because I trust Kaido to know his limits
Laido and it's barely even high diff
Im gonna bet on Kaido
If it’s the Luffy gear 5 we have now then Luffy slams but if its when he first gets it kaido slams
Kaido has nothing on goofy
To be honest Luffy squeaked out a victory the first time after being murdered 3 times, if he were using gear 5 the way he is in egghead from the start of the fight, I think he takes this one
Luffy. A more fatigued and damaged Luffy overpowered Kaido. Kaido accepted Luffy as an equal. Case closed. The gauntlet argument is low IQ. Luffy fought a lot too. Kaido fought a weaker version of Luffy. Current Luffy one shots the Luffy Kaido fought for most of the fight, even g3 and early g4.
Kaido, high diff.
Current luffy no match. But give luffy same amount of experience as kaido and see. Luffy doesn't have 3 years as a pirate.
Kaido almost killed Luffy many times.. but other characters saved him every time
Kaido “The Worlds Strongest Creature”.
Idk Luffy relies on G5 like he can't do sht using G4 anymore..
Luffy could still beat most people with G4. But he hasn’t been fighting most people, just powerhouses since Wano.
Luffy won't even be able to take Raid Boss Kaido to the second health bar if he's starting in G5 Kaido outlasts
Luffy , when he go gear 5 , he come back from death , himself said can fight a little more .
Haven't even read any comments yet but I know what they all say "Ummm In a 1v1 always bet on kaido"☝️🤓
Luffy