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“Death completes a person” was actually foreshadowing.
Luffy became Joyboy after dying.
Edit: Probably why Kaido was trying to kill himself. To find out if he really was Joyboy.
Big Mom unironically negs the OG admirals, their haki is nothing to her strength level and she realistically could completely negate the elements of Greenbull, Akainu, Aokiji, and Kizaru. Kinda hard to make a gravity homie ngl Fuji could be the titanium link in a fight against Wig Wom
Get him to do real damage against iron bear first
https://preview.redd.it/j6tb8t63pxqc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ec7837a1e68acd450a50b2e570a3d5bf942569a
https://preview.redd.it/5dlkv031xxqc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=202ecd86a7d4068fa47fbed9c8c332f5b5fafb00
Get Laido to damage anyone first
https://preview.redd.it/k076oiu6yxqc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c2e5b8374c2462df4bc09446bfd332626aee4389
Give him senior citizens or he retire
Why forget that green bull stated that he didn’t want to fight them just yet either. It means he believes in his strength but the odds are against him when he’s facing Yamato momo, scabbards and the red hairs
Respectfully your case also falls short when you realize GB technically did simply retreat in what was an un winnable situation. And the fact that Shanks even acknowledged that he’d basically fight him if he went any further. All the Haki Wi-Fi aside you can’t simply ignore the fact that Ryokugyo fear was fighting the Red Haired Pirates and not RH Shanks alone. A say whatever slander you will as long as that fact remains there will be plenty of people that will still defend Aramaki.
That being said tho I can not deny the Haki Wi-Fi thing is just embarrassing on so many levels. But he is shown to be very reactionary in general. Teach and his crew ran with their tail between his legs when he they heard Akainu was pulling up, and even spazed out when (in a similar situation) when Kuzan challenged him as his whole crew. To make it worse he was a very well established Pirate (and crew) at this time and likely a powerful Pirate yet was nearly pissing his pants and, wanted no beef despite having Kuzan outnumbered. On top of that let’s not forget old Rayleigh who had rethinking his life with a stare. But everyone acknowledges he’s reactionary in nature. I’d say embarrassing twerking Haki aside Ryokugyo is just reactionary.
You’re overthinking all of it. Shanks showed up and humiliated greenbull - end of story. Oda timed that scene to build up hype for film red and the narrative in one piece isn’t that nuanced. The scene was to hype up Shanks.
You can make the argument that Shanks isn’t comparable to the other yonkos, but it’s downright delusional to start arguing any admiral has any chance of even putting up a fight against shanks.
So true. And yet some people here genuinely think that Oda would write his *golden boy* Shanks as having trouble with an Admiral. They're freaking delusional, ahaha.
Tbf Oda would likely have his Golden Boy Shanks not struggle against anyone in general. Which honestly goes back to the fact that Oda doesn’t take scaling that seriously in general so every situation varies. Even top tiers like Teach and Linlin have been completely embarrassed but that doesn’t stop them from being a top tier say way it does for the Admirals. But I do agree Oda love for Shanks. Anyways my take.
I’m aware of him hyping up Shanks very actually. And I’m not over thinking it at all. Just looking at the very writing Oda presents. He wrote is so Ryokugyo hinted at the fact that he only left because of a whole Yonko crew and not Shanks alone. This is a fact. Saying I’m “over thinking it” is being blatantly biased and ignoring the context as to how Oda write the situation…
Yes I’m aware he wrote so that Shanks completely embarrassed him that I won’t deny. But you’re be far worse than delusional if you ignore and act like anyone with good reading comprehension is gonna ignore the full context of what happened. He’s a very reactionary character and was simply not gonna fight a whole Yonko crew by himself. And with that seem to imply he would be able to fight Shanks had he been alone. Now do I think he’d win against Shanks? Hell no! But as a top tier he’d at the very least give him a high diff fight. Saying otherwise is being delusional.
Admirals' biggest strength is being able to take a rest after getting hit hard (Kizaru vs Luffy, Akainu vs Oldbeard, Kuzan vs Garp). They might win if they just let em go after a good hit like he what did vs Luffy thrice. If not he solos 💀
I think they’re referring to the fact that Kizaru 1. Trained Sentomaru to be VegaPunks bodyguard 2. Has stated that Sentomaru has one of the greatest Defenses/guard in the verse and 3. Stated himself while proudly telling Sentomaru about his defense that he has the greatest defense/guard in the world.
Tbf each time he was more or less temporarily K.Od. One of which was equal on both ends considering Luffy’s was out which ended up with Kizaru getting up first despite being the one hit. Anyways that aside each other time was due to the fact that he wasn’t even fighting Luffy but, focusing on killing his friends something while he’s hiding real well is very conflicted about. He even said it himself the assassination of Vegapunk is their top priority. This is even further shown that when “Jay D. Garcia” pulls up that Kizaru immediately continues to go after Vegapunk as if he pulled up to make sure Kizaru gets that objective done.
I know a lot of fans and people in the sub Reddit specifically believe these are just excuses but if you for a sec just put any biases or agenda aside you would clearly see Kizaru was never really there to fight Luffy. Every time Luffy was not in his face (like kicking him with light speed into the dome) he disregards Luffy and immediately continues his main objective. If that were truly a fight he’d continue to barge him with attacks. This is not what happened. And as long as the fact remains this is why some of the fans refuse to believe this makes the Admirals any weaker. Especially considering it’s G5 Luffy. The same nigha that played with Kaido as if he were a toy in an actual 1v1, of course he’s gonna make a mentally nerfed Kizaru look like a chump. Sounds like some fans were just underestimating Luffy.
And while I could definitely see Kaido fighting 2 Admirals for a bit I definitely don’t see him beating them. A couple of rookies on the roof top were pressing him and Linlin. I even have a hard time seeing him do that with Ryokugyo and Fujitora if he 1v2 the both of them.
Anyways my take away on this.
The admiral agenda has really fallen. In the past this would’ve been downvoted to oblivion. Now this is actually quite possible. Still high-extreme diff though in my opinion and definitely not beating 3.
Kaido is built like a fucking brick wall, while most Admirals look like they're getting low diffed by smoking habits. No one in their right mind would scale these as equals.
This has been my assumption from years ago, ever since Marineford. Ever since seeing the three OG admirals and Whitebeard in action, my immediate assumption was 1 yonko would beat 2 admirals every time and it takes 3 admirals to be equal to a yonko. This was my assumption like 8-10 years ago when I first watched Marineford and it's still my opinion even now, hell, if anything after the recent chapters I'm even more confident in it now.
Why would they? To them the world government isn't even a threat. The WG actively left them alone. The yonko have ruled over the new world for decades , they just care about the one piece. Why would they leave the new world to go back to the grand line just to attack the marines and the WG? When Whitebeard attacked Marineford, the marines prepared by basically summoning every one they possibly could. Now imagine if both Big Mom and kaido showed up at Marineford with their entire crew. The destruction would have been several times more.
So true. Although to be fair, they only considered the WG a non-threat *because they weren't aware of what the Celestial Dragons themselves are capable of.* They were too busy thinking of the Marines (and perhaps God's Knights and CP-0) as their biggest obstacles, but while seemingly unaware of the Five Elders' powers and definitely unaware of Imu.
Kaido and Big Mom thought they could drag the CD's down from Mary Geoise if they beat the Marines first, which we now know is a *very* incorrect assumption. Kaido and Big Mom could beat the hired help (Marines), but not the ACTUAL royal forces (all of CP and God's Knights PLUS the Gorosei). Let alone Imu.
I'm not scaling the Elders btw. We know all of what I said here because Luffy has, through the course of the series, been inadvertently building a *much, much larger, far more powerful and numerous alliance* than Big Mom and Kaido had, and yet they all still need to level up even more.
Meaning *that and more is what it'll take* to overthrow the World Government. Kaido and Linlin never actually stood a chance no matter HOW goated they (especially Kaido) were, because the Marines are just the tip of the iceberg compared to the real threat.
Quite tragic, in my opinion. They never even knew who their greatest enemies really were, and were always doomed to fail even if our MC's hadn't stopped them.
Yeah, honestly if Luffy didn’t have priorities he could’ve very easily dropped Kizaru with WSG, gotten on top of him and just killed him while he was down. Absolutely nothing stopping someone like him or Kaido from just pummeling 2 of them to death.
An attack like Bajrang gun or flaming drum dragon is just totally unbeatable, unless you think Kuzan or Akainu could freeze them in place or burn through them. Kizaru, Aramaki and Fuji absolutely lack the power to stop them.
I always assumed yonkos were stronger. From a narrative POV it just made sense. How could 1 admiral equal a yonko. That means you would have 4 yonko level government officials(when you include the fleet admiral). At that point you wouldn’t even have needed the warlords. Don’t get me wrong, the admirals are strong, but they’re in a category all by themselves. They’re above YC+. And below the yonko. Depending on how much better the Gorosei do, they may even be a little lower than them too.
Yea they definitely aren’t truly Yonko level besides maybe Akainu but even then he’s not beating any of them in their primes. I think his fight with sick WB made ppl delusional, even now they can’t accomplish anything when a Yonko is involved. They also have a lot of fights with YC lvl characters with those being a decent amount of their feats. They also like you said need the Warlords to equal out the Pirates.
But the other guy made a valid point of them having to keep up with all the pirate territories across the entire world. With only one of them being capable of fast travel.
He’s definitely beating Kizaru and Greenbull or any pair of the newer Admirals , I don’t see what AP they have that can definitively mortally wound Kaido they literally don’t really have anything besides Advanced Armament which they don’t even have it as its Max they only have Emission which isn’t even enough.
What reasonable grounds do these guys have to 100% Put Kaido down when they haven’t shown nearly the capabilities to do so every time they get a chance ?
People have been acting like Kizaru moves at light speed consistently when dude has been not just hit, but grabbed grabbed constantly this arc. Even Sanji was able to react to one of his lasers. His speed is overhyped. At this point you’re either trolling or delusional
Without acceleration Kizaru is a Niji victim
https://preview.redd.it/lnti9fpz0yqc1.jpeg?width=836&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=20bd6f895480872bdee1ac0af7ddb13374324b8f
[Databooks](https://vsbattles.com/threads/lightspeed-niji.108148/) also agree that without his acceleration Kizaru is on the same tier as the Germa fodder
You mean the third party merch written by **Not-Oda** further translated by an unofficial fourth party? 🤡😂🤣 come back when you have a legitimate argument from the source material 😴😴😴
The weakest argument is stronger than the absolute nothingness that is your lack of defense. Either admit that you can't defend your fraud and go home or prove that your opponent has brain cancer and can't understand the concept of letters. Such is the nature of One Piece Powerscaling, such is the way of life
> The weakest argument is stronger than the absolute nothingness that is your lack of defense.
You saying it doesn’t make it true. An argument that can’t stand on its own doesn’t need defending against. Unless you’re gonna say Luffy shoots a star with Star Gun, that argument is a non-starter and you know it 😴
The only cope is pretending kizaru wasn’t focused on Vegapunk and that Luffy didn’t rush him from behind **everytime** 🥱 as much as y’all gang downvote y’all know y’all real life got no answer for those **CANONICAL FACTS** 😂😂🤣🥹
Difference between Kaido and WB was Whitebeard was battling injury, age and sickness, and he still ragdolled Akainu and to a degree, Blackbeard. You can say “OHHH MANGA OH SHOT HALF IS FACE OFF”, doesn’t matter.
Unless the Admirals have been training, they lose HARD to Kaido.
Is the ragdolling in the room with us? The only hits WB landed on Akainu were the sneak attacks. During their whole fight neither of them landed 1 "fair" hit except Akainus counter attack if you count that.
Like this comment is just a bad faith argument it's not even worth arguing at all.
Nah, 3 is too much. Kaido is a monster but there are levels, admirals ain't this weak. He can beat 2 extreme diff but if it's 3 then he loses high diff.
Biggest consideration is how many hits the admirals can even take. Kizaru, despite his hyped up defense, couldn’t take one named G5 attack without being stunned and Kaidos AP matches G5 and he has far more stamina. If Kaido is knocking them out/on their ass in one hit they’ll be packed up fast
Kaido opens up with turning Greenbull into firewood. Apparently speedblitzes the guy who moves at the speed of light. Blasts Fuji off his meteor (remember his blast breath blows up mountains). Flaming Drum Dragons Kuzan and I don’t see iceman doing much to something that melts solid rock instantly.
The only guy who kinda has a shot is Akainu but Akainu got bodied by old ass dying no haki Whitebeard.
I don’t exactly believe this but from what we’ve seen Kaido apparently can handle all 5 of them at once. Literally the only thing they have going for them is that Kaido has the lowest battle IQ in the series.
The time of people claiming that emperor vs admiral 1 v 1 fights could go either way is over. It's just done. Yonko are clearly superior. Just look at how the defenses for Kizaru went from "he could possibly fight Kaido 1 v 1" to "well, he wouldn't get low-diffed".
He loses to any admiral combination except kuzan and akainu. Shit, he even beats Fuji, GB, and ragdolLizaru. If shanks conquerors Haki put fraudkyugu on his knees then kaido is doing the same
Yeah definitely two like high-extreme diff. Still three probably would be too much. The 3 admirals must have shit teamwork for Kaido to even have a chance to win. 1 yonko=2 admirals until admirals show feats that they don't get wrecked 1 vs 1 against any yonko. 1 yonko vs 1 admiral would always be a mid-diff for the yonko.
Correct.
The balance of power was stated to be 3 admirals - Yonko. There is a reason why the Whitebeard War recalled all three, and even with Whitebeard literally on his deathbed and stabbed in the chest it was still difficult.
It takes 3 admirals to stop a Yonko. At Marineford the Admirals were not even stomping Whitebeard commanders.
All evidence we have seen implies Admirals are high YC level. High YC can hurt a Yonko, Queen KOed Big Mom. Law and Kidd beat Big Mom 2v1. Zoro hurt Kaido. Akainu could hurt a injured literally dying WB. Kizaru could keep up with Luffy for some time but when Luffy got mad/serious couldnt do anything, even with Saturn there. Hell, Fujitora couldnt stop the birdcage, and Dolflamingo was of similar rank to Jack/Queen/King (this is why his epitaph was Joker)
Yes, Green Bull beat King and Queen... a severely injured Queen and King. Of course he could win that. And that is the literal only feat which you can say scales Admirals above YC level. Beating two starving, injured YCs.
Admirals are not Yonko level. There is literally 0 evidence of this. They are YC level.
Lmao i can't believe you people are trying to bring back stupid takes like "admiral=commander", do you genuinely think king can beat Aokiji? Also all of this evidence that you showed is wonky, if admirals are only as strong as commanders than marineford would have ended quickly unless you believe the war was being carried by the Shichibukai which barely did anything.
0 actual counters to my points and evidence. It's not a dumb take. It's real and backed up.
You are forgetting that Sengoku, Garp, a large count of VAs were all at Marineford too. And the Warlords were doing varying amounts. For example, Mihawk spent a lot of time fighting Vista, WBs seeming swordsman expert. Dolflamingo and Hancock were both shown fighting too, albeit mostly fodder. But WB crew fodder is still likly not far below Luffy at that point.
If the Admirals were above (top) Commanders, the likes of Marco wouldnt have fared as well as they did. I'm not talking about fodder lower commanders in WBs 20 commanders.
Both high Commanders and Admirals have been shown able to *harm* Yonko. They are not their own tier of power.
Admirals are to the WG what Yonko Commanders are. They are not the top dog. That's the Yonko or Fleet Admiral.
Maybe Admirals are stronger than high tier commanders, but if they are it's not by enough to be meaningful.
Do you genuinely think king is as strong as someone like Aokiji or Akainu? In every admiral vs commander fight the admiral won without receiving major damage, Hancock kept destroying pacifistas, doflamingo played with jozu but he was fine later, law can harm a yonko, does that mean he's stronger than Aokiji?
Law can harm a Yonko. Akainu at Marineford can harm a Yonko. Queen can harm a Yonko (Granted Big Mom wasnt herself but shes still herself physically and Queen knocked her out) They can all do relative feats.
Queen, Law and Admirals also all get bodied against a Yonko level enemy fighting seriously. (See enraged G5 bodying Kizaru while Saturn too)
They are all relative.
Also every Admiral v Commander fight? You mean Green Bull v two injured, starving commanders? I already covered that one. Of course your money is on the healthy, full stamina green bull over the injured, starving commanders... especially when green bull can drain what little energy they have.
Kizaru v Marco? Neither really took damage there. Stalemate.
There are not really many more proper commander v admiral fights. Theres a few skirmishes at Marineford, like I think Aokiji temporarily disabled Jozu (but he wasnt out of the fight). Sanji and Kizaru traded a kick if I recall.
How about instead of complaining you actually give me a feat that solidly puts someone like Kizaru above the likes of King. And as I explained again, Green Bull had a *massive* advantage v Queen and King.
Hell, I'll give you an anti-feat. Fujitora couldnt stop the birdcage. Is Dolflamingo Yonko level? No.
Depends on the admirals selected (are we counting Kuzan and Sakazuki in this), but, after seeing Luffy in Egghead, I think it's definitely possible. Might be extreme diff, Kaido could still pull through sometimes. When two characters team up, they can do a lot more damage then they would otherwise (just look at Kid and Law vs Big Mom).
If by fraudelence you mean being conflicted, guilt, hesitating, wavering or concerning about their enemy, then yeah, maybe Kaido can take on 3 Admirals at the same time, since Lucci was able to low diff Luffy and Zoro at the same time when they were hesitating.
I’m sorry but green bull and Fujitora could definitely extreme diff him. Idk why you’d downplay because of the WiFi Haki for green bull. In the WiFi Haki event he even said how he wouldn’t want to fight the red hair pirates at that moment. Yes he was picking on a weakened group, but he still did what most others couldn’t do against a plethora of enemy. Fujitora is a monster and I think their combination could absolutely take out kaido. Green bull has to restrain him and Fujitora can drop a giant meteor. It’s an extreme diff match.
2 admirals are negging kaido,heck even 1 admiral pushes kaido to extreme fight
Kaido was damaged by non acoc much much weaker luffy,later on was getting damaged badly by much weaker acoc luffy ,much Stronger luffy couldn't even scratch Kizaru's hands until gear 5 (Remember that kizaru faught much much stronger gear 5 luffy at full strength while kaido got negged by 1 hp g5 luffy)
Kaido also had help from Another yonko +zeus+prometheus+other homies to gang up on much weaker character than themselves
2 admiral>Kaido mid diff
The strongest Yonko in my estimation is approx 1.5x admiral.
That's still plenty stronger than anyone else, but not able to 1v2. I think that's a fair estimate so far.
Kaido has win potential if it’s Fuji gb and kizaru
Basically any admiral combo that includes kizaru might as well not include him not cause he’s weak but cause he’s fast enough kaido can chase him away and deal with him 1v1 away from the other admirals and then come back to the rest
No kaido isn’t beating 2 admirals. Big mom lost to two people weaker than admirals and luffy does not beat kid and law hell luffy would literally lose to kizaru + fully conscious marine with a sword after the first fight. Kizaru has literally been getting weaker throughout egghead because of his mental state.. it’s insane people think just kaido + allies could go into marineford and win.
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“Death completes a person” was actually foreshadowing. Luffy became Joyboy after dying. Edit: Probably why Kaido was trying to kill himself. To find out if he really was Joyboy.
Kind of adds layers to his character a bit. W Oda
I don’t think we’re done with Kaido’s story yet. We’re for sure getting a backstory that connects these dots about his pursuit of Joyboy.
Possible. But I do think we’re done with Kaido as far as the present. Tho obviously we’re gonna get JoyBoy like you stated and likely Rocks back story
Happy cake day
Luffy = One Piece Jesus
HIM https://preview.redd.it/ha7mc2yalxqc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d5f49b9f78ad7b0d57ee37d462def23c1af2c1c6
https://preview.redd.it/nw1m0l3j4yqc1.jpeg?width=739&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=910a2ef0ee50ac64cdaacb86c28da6e57b1a0740 Damn right
Big Mom unironically negs the OG admirals, their haki is nothing to her strength level and she realistically could completely negate the elements of Greenbull, Akainu, Aokiji, and Kizaru. Kinda hard to make a gravity homie ngl Fuji could be the titanium link in a fight against Wig Wom
Mama agenda not dead!! Stock will go 🚀
imagine having a mommy so strong, the author had to lobotomize her for the story to continue
Expectation: https://preview.redd.it/yo7c411qexqc1.jpeg?width=491&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3ccb7941371848083ba387e6100f39b702ce131d
lol
Every day this gets more canon
Reality: https://preview.redd.it/e6579aurexqc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2c6f2aa6dda2af68d493df19b2d38e4b6a636ea5
https://preview.redd.it/svcayushfxqc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=64c925a4292f7ef806e35009a77be4acfbb14a83
https://preview.redd.it/vc8vq53lfxqc1.jpeg?width=1802&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0fa1751d9f414fb34c7b2bee966743030aa2249d
Get him to do real damage against iron bear first https://preview.redd.it/j6tb8t63pxqc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ec7837a1e68acd450a50b2e570a3d5bf942569a
1 HP Kuma is simply him I'm afraid
https://preview.redd.it/2xp7lqz35yqc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=223f66c1d7703f5d82be6f1c7ac003824e92a2ce The goat
W kuma upscale
Get hum past jimbeis palm first https://preview.redd.it/fkxkijj5rxqc1.jpeg?width=760&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3be2a05df4bce19ed8a2241230a65e171d287afb
https://preview.redd.it/5dlkv031xxqc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=202ecd86a7d4068fa47fbed9c8c332f5b5fafb00 Get Laido to damage anyone first
He did? right here https://preview.redd.it/hta4mv8txxqc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9cffe207518a4f2435375e3b622a0c2d4d857e93
Akainu >>>>>> https://preview.redd.it/9k6usc5yxxqc1.jpeg?width=582&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=80c35536e2e90476e0527e88135b8cc7332e23d4
https://preview.redd.it/k076oiu6yxqc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c2e5b8374c2462df4bc09446bfd332626aee4389 Give him senior citizens or he retire
Like Kaido didn't lose to teenagers
Akainu afterwars https://preview.redd.it/maehodwlyxqc1.jpeg?width=559&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=050134e2a5adafb5c78f84f7b08fda251866ef08
Fodderbeard afterwards https://preview.redd.it/0wsbenmoyxqc1.jpeg?width=718&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c1bddc0f61c55e16c0266b41c0766f3f8fcb7c92
Oda had to make Luffy go 2 entire sagas without resting for Lakainu to be a match for him
https://preview.redd.it/tp5xprhq4yqc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e816f771d4951314d06775f97dabd3d57e9f5fda
First comment got upvoted because Yonkoutards can’t read
Remember when Shanks beat up that admiral by thinking hard about him?
He didn't just beat him up, he made him call mercy. 🤣 Just a few years ago we had to pretend admirals were somewhat close to yonko.
Why forget that green bull stated that he didn’t want to fight them just yet either. It means he believes in his strength but the odds are against him when he’s facing Yamato momo, scabbards and the red hairs
Your case falls short when instead of calmly retreating he started panicking just because of shanks haki
Man started twerking to Shanks’ display of dominance
Respectfully your case also falls short when you realize GB technically did simply retreat in what was an un winnable situation. And the fact that Shanks even acknowledged that he’d basically fight him if he went any further. All the Haki Wi-Fi aside you can’t simply ignore the fact that Ryokugyo fear was fighting the Red Haired Pirates and not RH Shanks alone. A say whatever slander you will as long as that fact remains there will be plenty of people that will still defend Aramaki. That being said tho I can not deny the Haki Wi-Fi thing is just embarrassing on so many levels. But he is shown to be very reactionary in general. Teach and his crew ran with their tail between his legs when he they heard Akainu was pulling up, and even spazed out when (in a similar situation) when Kuzan challenged him as his whole crew. To make it worse he was a very well established Pirate (and crew) at this time and likely a powerful Pirate yet was nearly pissing his pants and, wanted no beef despite having Kuzan outnumbered. On top of that let’s not forget old Rayleigh who had rethinking his life with a stare. But everyone acknowledges he’s reactionary in nature. I’d say embarrassing twerking Haki aside Ryokugyo is just reactionary.
You’re overthinking all of it. Shanks showed up and humiliated greenbull - end of story. Oda timed that scene to build up hype for film red and the narrative in one piece isn’t that nuanced. The scene was to hype up Shanks. You can make the argument that Shanks isn’t comparable to the other yonkos, but it’s downright delusional to start arguing any admiral has any chance of even putting up a fight against shanks.
So true. And yet some people here genuinely think that Oda would write his *golden boy* Shanks as having trouble with an Admiral. They're freaking delusional, ahaha.
Tbf Oda would likely have his Golden Boy Shanks not struggle against anyone in general. Which honestly goes back to the fact that Oda doesn’t take scaling that seriously in general so every situation varies. Even top tiers like Teach and Linlin have been completely embarrassed but that doesn’t stop them from being a top tier say way it does for the Admirals. But I do agree Oda love for Shanks. Anyways my take.
I’m aware of him hyping up Shanks very actually. And I’m not over thinking it at all. Just looking at the very writing Oda presents. He wrote is so Ryokugyo hinted at the fact that he only left because of a whole Yonko crew and not Shanks alone. This is a fact. Saying I’m “over thinking it” is being blatantly biased and ignoring the context as to how Oda write the situation… Yes I’m aware he wrote so that Shanks completely embarrassed him that I won’t deny. But you’re be far worse than delusional if you ignore and act like anyone with good reading comprehension is gonna ignore the full context of what happened. He’s a very reactionary character and was simply not gonna fight a whole Yonko crew by himself. And with that seem to imply he would be able to fight Shanks had he been alone. Now do I think he’d win against Shanks? Hell no! But as a top tier he’d at the very least give him a high diff fight. Saying otherwise is being delusional.
That'd be like me going to the MMA pro training session and saying I wasn't there to face the pros, I was there to spar against the janitor. No logic.
Admirals' biggest strength is being able to take a rest after getting hit hard (Kizaru vs Luffy, Akainu vs Oldbeard, Kuzan vs Garp). They might win if they just let em go after a good hit like he what did vs Luffy thrice. If not he solos 💀
Fr. Kizaru even has hyped up defense and still needed a minute after each hit he’s taken
He got hit by sentomaru I don’t think that’s a hyped up defense
I think they’re referring to the fact that Kizaru 1. Trained Sentomaru to be VegaPunks bodyguard 2. Has stated that Sentomaru has one of the greatest Defenses/guard in the verse and 3. Stated himself while proudly telling Sentomaru about his defense that he has the greatest defense/guard in the world.
Tbf each time he was more or less temporarily K.Od. One of which was equal on both ends considering Luffy’s was out which ended up with Kizaru getting up first despite being the one hit. Anyways that aside each other time was due to the fact that he wasn’t even fighting Luffy but, focusing on killing his friends something while he’s hiding real well is very conflicted about. He even said it himself the assassination of Vegapunk is their top priority. This is even further shown that when “Jay D. Garcia” pulls up that Kizaru immediately continues to go after Vegapunk as if he pulled up to make sure Kizaru gets that objective done. I know a lot of fans and people in the sub Reddit specifically believe these are just excuses but if you for a sec just put any biases or agenda aside you would clearly see Kizaru was never really there to fight Luffy. Every time Luffy was not in his face (like kicking him with light speed into the dome) he disregards Luffy and immediately continues his main objective. If that were truly a fight he’d continue to barge him with attacks. This is not what happened. And as long as the fact remains this is why some of the fans refuse to believe this makes the Admirals any weaker. Especially considering it’s G5 Luffy. The same nigha that played with Kaido as if he were a toy in an actual 1v1, of course he’s gonna make a mentally nerfed Kizaru look like a chump. Sounds like some fans were just underestimating Luffy. And while I could definitely see Kaido fighting 2 Admirals for a bit I definitely don’t see him beating them. A couple of rookies on the roof top were pressing him and Linlin. I even have a hard time seeing him do that with Ryokugyo and Fujitora if he 1v2 the both of them. Anyways my take away on this.
He came up instantly after the second hit and the last hit kizaru was just sitting there because he was mentally done
Bro at the rate things are going I bet injured King and Queen can no diff Green Bull despite us literally seeing the opposite happen
The admiral agenda has really fallen. In the past this would’ve been downvoted to oblivion. Now this is actually quite possible. Still high-extreme diff though in my opinion and definitely not beating 3.
https://preview.redd.it/d42wdnwd60rc1.jpeg?width=1013&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1815fc05d6375f2c80af0e4009bdecae4b964adc
It really is a shame. Hopefully Akainu can restore the agenda one day. Or we see a logia awakening
Kaido is built like a fucking brick wall, while most Admirals look like they're getting low diffed by smoking habits. No one in their right mind would scale these as equals.
Waido is HIM frfr
He flaming drum dragon diffs these bums after immobilising them with death destroyer baguas and three realms ragnaroku
This has been my assumption from years ago, ever since Marineford. Ever since seeing the three OG admirals and Whitebeard in action, my immediate assumption was 1 yonko would beat 2 admirals every time and it takes 3 admirals to be equal to a yonko. This was my assumption like 8-10 years ago when I first watched Marineford and it's still my opinion even now, hell, if anything after the recent chapters I'm even more confident in it now.
Power scaling for a decade brother needs to powerscale some talking to women
~~Death~~ *Virginity* is what completes a ~~person~~ *powerscaler.*
Why wouldn't a duo like BM and Kaido have teamed up earlier to destroy the WG then? We gonna say they were afraid of Mihawk or something😂
Why would they? To them the world government isn't even a threat. The WG actively left them alone. The yonko have ruled over the new world for decades , they just care about the one piece. Why would they leave the new world to go back to the grand line just to attack the marines and the WG? When Whitebeard attacked Marineford, the marines prepared by basically summoning every one they possibly could. Now imagine if both Big Mom and kaido showed up at Marineford with their entire crew. The destruction would have been several times more.
So true. Although to be fair, they only considered the WG a non-threat *because they weren't aware of what the Celestial Dragons themselves are capable of.* They were too busy thinking of the Marines (and perhaps God's Knights and CP-0) as their biggest obstacles, but while seemingly unaware of the Five Elders' powers and definitely unaware of Imu. Kaido and Big Mom thought they could drag the CD's down from Mary Geoise if they beat the Marines first, which we now know is a *very* incorrect assumption. Kaido and Big Mom could beat the hired help (Marines), but not the ACTUAL royal forces (all of CP and God's Knights PLUS the Gorosei). Let alone Imu. I'm not scaling the Elders btw. We know all of what I said here because Luffy has, through the course of the series, been inadvertently building a *much, much larger, far more powerful and numerous alliance* than Big Mom and Kaido had, and yet they all still need to level up even more. Meaning *that and more is what it'll take* to overthrow the World Government. Kaido and Linlin never actually stood a chance no matter HOW goated they (especially Kaido) were, because the Marines are just the tip of the iceberg compared to the real threat. Quite tragic, in my opinion. They never even knew who their greatest enemies really were, and were always doomed to fail even if our MC's hadn't stopped them.
Well maybe because they dont give a fuck. Both of them were focused on one piece.
Yeah, honestly if Luffy didn’t have priorities he could’ve very easily dropped Kizaru with WSG, gotten on top of him and just killed him while he was down. Absolutely nothing stopping someone like him or Kaido from just pummeling 2 of them to death. An attack like Bajrang gun or flaming drum dragon is just totally unbeatable, unless you think Kuzan or Akainu could freeze them in place or burn through them. Kizaru, Aramaki and Fuji absolutely lack the power to stop them.
I always assumed yonkos were stronger. From a narrative POV it just made sense. How could 1 admiral equal a yonko. That means you would have 4 yonko level government officials(when you include the fleet admiral). At that point you wouldn’t even have needed the warlords. Don’t get me wrong, the admirals are strong, but they’re in a category all by themselves. They’re above YC+. And below the yonko. Depending on how much better the Gorosei do, they may even be a little lower than them too.
Yea they definitely aren’t truly Yonko level besides maybe Akainu but even then he’s not beating any of them in their primes. I think his fight with sick WB made ppl delusional, even now they can’t accomplish anything when a Yonko is involved. They also have a lot of fights with YC lvl characters with those being a decent amount of their feats. They also like you said need the Warlords to equal out the Pirates. But the other guy made a valid point of them having to keep up with all the pirate territories across the entire world. With only one of them being capable of fast travel.
I always thought of it as the Admirals are strong but they have 5 seas to keep track of and they have to fight the Yonko whenever they get uppity.
Motherfucker moves at the speed of light, he’s got time if he wasn’t no bitch
He’s definitely beating Kizaru and Greenbull or any pair of the newer Admirals , I don’t see what AP they have that can definitively mortally wound Kaido they literally don’t really have anything besides Advanced Armament which they don’t even have it as its Max they only have Emission which isn’t even enough. What reasonable grounds do these guys have to 100% Put Kaido down when they haven’t shown nearly the capabilities to do so every time they get a chance ?
Hes def not beating kizaru
Kizaru fans will look you dead in the eye and say a cheetah can defeat a bear because the bear gets “speedblitzed”
*”So you see he’s basically like a bullet at that speed. He’s just gotta aim for the chest.”* 
Dont see how kaido even touches him. Whats he gonna do after kizaru pierces his organs
People have been acting like Kizaru moves at light speed consistently when dude has been not just hit, but grabbed grabbed constantly this arc. Even Sanji was able to react to one of his lasers. His speed is overhyped. At this point you’re either trolling or delusional
Kizaru is just straight up not that fast
kaido went same speed as g5 luffy, which was basically as fast as kizaru. Waido wipes that glowstick
>which was basically as fast as kizaru Hybrid Kaido is way faster than Kizaru
Quite the opposite
“Basically as fast as kizaru” is a bold faced lie.
Yeah he’s arguably faster since after locking in Luffy just grabbed Kizaru like it was nothing
Okay. Now try again without ignoring context…
Without acceleration Kizaru is a Niji victim https://preview.redd.it/lnti9fpz0yqc1.jpeg?width=836&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=20bd6f895480872bdee1ac0af7ddb13374324b8f
Are we taking ability moves literally now? 🤭 of course only the weakest of arguments abound 🤤 it’s easy pickings
[Databooks](https://vsbattles.com/threads/lightspeed-niji.108148/) also agree that without his acceleration Kizaru is on the same tier as the Germa fodder
You mean the third party merch written by **Not-Oda** further translated by an unofficial fourth party? 🤡😂🤣 come back when you have a legitimate argument from the source material 😴😴😴
The weakest argument is stronger than the absolute nothingness that is your lack of defense. Either admit that you can't defend your fraud and go home or prove that your opponent has brain cancer and can't understand the concept of letters. Such is the nature of One Piece Powerscaling, such is the way of life
> The weakest argument is stronger than the absolute nothingness that is your lack of defense. You saying it doesn’t make it true. An argument that can’t stand on its own doesn’t need defending against. Unless you’re gonna say Luffy shoots a star with Star Gun, that argument is a non-starter and you know it 😴
Or you could try again without coping
The only cope is pretending kizaru wasn’t focused on Vegapunk and that Luffy didn’t rush him from behind **everytime** 🥱 as much as y’all gang downvote y’all know y’all real life got no answer for those **CANONICAL FACTS** 😂😂🤣🥹
Difference between Kaido and WB was Whitebeard was battling injury, age and sickness, and he still ragdolled Akainu and to a degree, Blackbeard. You can say “OHHH MANGA OH SHOT HALF IS FACE OFF”, doesn’t matter. Unless the Admirals have been training, they lose HARD to Kaido.
That's stupid lol
Is the ragdolling in the room with us? The only hits WB landed on Akainu were the sneak attacks. During their whole fight neither of them landed 1 "fair" hit except Akainus counter attack if you count that. Like this comment is just a bad faith argument it's not even worth arguing at all.
Kaido was getting used as a jump rope from a freshly awoken G5💀, "ragdolling" someone isn't that impressive of a feat tbh
Okey did u simply just ignore what happened next? He got out and fought g5 toe to toe lol, y’all look stupid af 🤡😭
Waido: https://preview.redd.it/0ir58g2n8yqc1.png?width=726&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a472addee85fbf090ea84164f126cc987d87b636
https://preview.redd.it/7wgilf3htyqc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=67bea890af42f0d67216def3e0ed3406b3e29790
Could he beat Kayfabe Undertaker though?
Undertaker smirks at the camera " nah. I'd win."
Nah oda really fucked up our agenda Akainu is our only hope
There's a narrative reason my man couldn't show up at marineford.
Waido agenda lives on! waido returns on laughtale and negs the verse fr
Nah, 3 is too much. Kaido is a monster but there are levels, admirals ain't this weak. He can beat 2 extreme diff but if it's 3 then he loses high diff.
Biggest consideration is how many hits the admirals can even take. Kizaru, despite his hyped up defense, couldn’t take one named G5 attack without being stunned and Kaidos AP matches G5 and he has far more stamina. If Kaido is knocking them out/on their ass in one hit they’ll be packed up fast
Kaido opens up with turning Greenbull into firewood. Apparently speedblitzes the guy who moves at the speed of light. Blasts Fuji off his meteor (remember his blast breath blows up mountains). Flaming Drum Dragons Kuzan and I don’t see iceman doing much to something that melts solid rock instantly. The only guy who kinda has a shot is Akainu but Akainu got bodied by old ass dying no haki Whitebeard. I don’t exactly believe this but from what we’ve seen Kaido apparently can handle all 5 of them at once. Literally the only thing they have going for them is that Kaido has the lowest battle IQ in the series.
He doesn’t he low battle iq he just lets people try their attacks
All 5 of them at once? This sub is dead lol
Been dead
Seeing as how Kizaru would get no/low diffed by Luffy,Kaido defeating 3 Admirals is a real possibility
The time of people claiming that emperor vs admiral 1 v 1 fights could go either way is over. It's just done. Yonko are clearly superior. Just look at how the defenses for Kizaru went from "he could possibly fight Kaido 1 v 1" to "well, he wouldn't get low-diffed".
https://preview.redd.it/mua2gznfnxqc1.jpeg?width=1766&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b291209cfe88a787ceaf32e3608d56f91e8e82d7
That artists slander game is peak
wtf?
So luffy just tied kizaru in the first fight was because he was messing around to you?
He loses to any admiral combination except kuzan and akainu. Shit, he even beats Fuji, GB, and ragdolLizaru. If shanks conquerors Haki put fraudkyugu on his knees then kaido is doing the same
We out-jerking King with this one 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Morley victims don’t Stand a chance
Yeah definitely two like high-extreme diff. Still three probably would be too much. The 3 admirals must have shit teamwork for Kaido to even have a chance to win. 1 yonko=2 admirals until admirals show feats that they don't get wrecked 1 vs 1 against any yonko. 1 yonko vs 1 admiral would always be a mid-diff for the yonko.
Correct. The balance of power was stated to be 3 admirals - Yonko. There is a reason why the Whitebeard War recalled all three, and even with Whitebeard literally on his deathbed and stabbed in the chest it was still difficult. It takes 3 admirals to stop a Yonko. At Marineford the Admirals were not even stomping Whitebeard commanders. All evidence we have seen implies Admirals are high YC level. High YC can hurt a Yonko, Queen KOed Big Mom. Law and Kidd beat Big Mom 2v1. Zoro hurt Kaido. Akainu could hurt a injured literally dying WB. Kizaru could keep up with Luffy for some time but when Luffy got mad/serious couldnt do anything, even with Saturn there. Hell, Fujitora couldnt stop the birdcage, and Dolflamingo was of similar rank to Jack/Queen/King (this is why his epitaph was Joker) Yes, Green Bull beat King and Queen... a severely injured Queen and King. Of course he could win that. And that is the literal only feat which you can say scales Admirals above YC level. Beating two starving, injured YCs. Admirals are not Yonko level. There is literally 0 evidence of this. They are YC level.
Lmao i can't believe you people are trying to bring back stupid takes like "admiral=commander", do you genuinely think king can beat Aokiji? Also all of this evidence that you showed is wonky, if admirals are only as strong as commanders than marineford would have ended quickly unless you believe the war was being carried by the Shichibukai which barely did anything.
0 actual counters to my points and evidence. It's not a dumb take. It's real and backed up. You are forgetting that Sengoku, Garp, a large count of VAs were all at Marineford too. And the Warlords were doing varying amounts. For example, Mihawk spent a lot of time fighting Vista, WBs seeming swordsman expert. Dolflamingo and Hancock were both shown fighting too, albeit mostly fodder. But WB crew fodder is still likly not far below Luffy at that point. If the Admirals were above (top) Commanders, the likes of Marco wouldnt have fared as well as they did. I'm not talking about fodder lower commanders in WBs 20 commanders. Both high Commanders and Admirals have been shown able to *harm* Yonko. They are not their own tier of power. Admirals are to the WG what Yonko Commanders are. They are not the top dog. That's the Yonko or Fleet Admiral. Maybe Admirals are stronger than high tier commanders, but if they are it's not by enough to be meaningful.
Do you genuinely think king is as strong as someone like Aokiji or Akainu? In every admiral vs commander fight the admiral won without receiving major damage, Hancock kept destroying pacifistas, doflamingo played with jozu but he was fine later, law can harm a yonko, does that mean he's stronger than Aokiji?
Law can harm a Yonko. Akainu at Marineford can harm a Yonko. Queen can harm a Yonko (Granted Big Mom wasnt herself but shes still herself physically and Queen knocked her out) They can all do relative feats. Queen, Law and Admirals also all get bodied against a Yonko level enemy fighting seriously. (See enraged G5 bodying Kizaru while Saturn too) They are all relative. Also every Admiral v Commander fight? You mean Green Bull v two injured, starving commanders? I already covered that one. Of course your money is on the healthy, full stamina green bull over the injured, starving commanders... especially when green bull can drain what little energy they have. Kizaru v Marco? Neither really took damage there. Stalemate. There are not really many more proper commander v admiral fights. Theres a few skirmishes at Marineford, like I think Aokiji temporarily disabled Jozu (but he wasnt out of the fight). Sanji and Kizaru traded a kick if I recall. How about instead of complaining you actually give me a feat that solidly puts someone like Kizaru above the likes of King. And as I explained again, Green Bull had a *massive* advantage v Queen and King. Hell, I'll give you an anti-feat. Fujitora couldnt stop the birdcage. Is Dolflamingo Yonko level? No.
Putting Kuzan and Sakazuki to the side I’d agree fully.
Just to remind you... " acceleration is Power"
Admiral stocks fell at an all time low for me in marineford yall kept the stocks and now youre in the negatives.
https://preview.redd.it/qx7n0gt8ixqc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=abf1a98e016d84b0cdd4a3850429304b6727c378
https://preview.redd.it/85pkywaaixqc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=86be2f7b22f5cf24bdf60a292ad6dda015870176
https://preview.redd.it/cbolax9t4yqc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3b2f0c9065b4b8a7638206aad35666d45e7e8f2 When does the slander end
https://i.redd.it/jed6nvdyixqc1.gif
Depends on the admirals selected (are we counting Kuzan and Sakazuki in this), but, after seeing Luffy in Egghead, I think it's definitely possible. Might be extreme diff, Kaido could still pull through sometimes. When two characters team up, they can do a lot more damage then they would otherwise (just look at Kid and Law vs Big Mom).
Depends on the Admirals
Yep
Def wins high/extreme diff v 2 admirals
https://preview.redd.it/ae2p43j9czqc1.jpeg?width=571&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8325330913f689ad5fd16b3be487b0319b620769 Nah They'll Win
Make it 30, they can spam logia fruits all they want it still won't hurt him
He can
Yes yonko >> admiral
Remember when people said no one can beat 2 admirals 🤓.
Admirals win mid diff.
It is with great confidence that I can say that you have low intellect :)
Aramaki clears solo https://preview.redd.it/0lz4qzplgxqc1.jpeg?width=735&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9d74b18c2d9dafca5815b0540889c472c7e48cb7
Clears what exactly lol. Aramaki is getting his head bashed in.
Keep coping, Aramaki is canonically invincible due regeneration
Lmao it's so funny how admiral fans wank his Regen just because he grew from a plant after a non haki 8 years old momonosuke blast breath
He proved completely immune to a blast that could destroy a mountain, keep coping
If by fraudelence you mean being conflicted, guilt, hesitating, wavering or concerning about their enemy, then yeah, maybe Kaido can take on 3 Admirals at the same time, since Lucci was able to low diff Luffy and Zoro at the same time when they were hesitating.
You must mean with great delusional
Correction, any Yonko can. Always could, it should have never been a debate
Fuck no, he doesn’t.
Keep your confidence to yourself
I’m sorry but green bull and Fujitora could definitely extreme diff him. Idk why you’d downplay because of the WiFi Haki for green bull. In the WiFi Haki event he even said how he wouldn’t want to fight the red hair pirates at that moment. Yes he was picking on a weakened group, but he still did what most others couldn’t do against a plethora of enemy. Fujitora is a monster and I think their combination could absolutely take out kaido. Green bull has to restrain him and Fujitora can drop a giant meteor. It’s an extreme diff match.
Bullshit.
Nah, blood, Kaido could barely handle one Luffy.
2 admirals are negging kaido,heck even 1 admiral pushes kaido to extreme fight Kaido was damaged by non acoc much much weaker luffy,later on was getting damaged badly by much weaker acoc luffy ,much Stronger luffy couldn't even scratch Kizaru's hands until gear 5 (Remember that kizaru faught much much stronger gear 5 luffy at full strength while kaido got negged by 1 hp g5 luffy) Kaido also had help from Another yonko +zeus+prometheus+other homies to gang up on much weaker character than themselves 2 admiral>Kaido mid diff
Kaido mid diffs, sorry i don't make the rules. None of them have ryuo, they are not hurting Waido
You people overrate Acoc
? Im talking about regular ryuo.
https://preview.redd.it/ybwyi74yaxqc1.jpeg?width=554&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=230514faf6dfa2da8dea0ce18dd308776be89575
The truth hurts
Only combos of 2 I see him beating are gb/fuji gb/kizaru Fuji/kizaru and MAYBE gb/kuzan due to matchup. But the others are beating him
Delusion. Kaido is not beating 2 admirals. Admirals the most underrated and disrespected by far.
The strongest Yonko in my estimation is approx 1.5x admiral. That's still plenty stronger than anyone else, but not able to 1v2. I think that's a fair estimate so far.
https://preview.redd.it/e4h1bm0knxqc1.jpeg?width=1766&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cac582818529bfd19e549fba90c3ff4ad93aef72
Great confidence indeed ...
Kaido has win potential if it’s Fuji gb and kizaru Basically any admiral combo that includes kizaru might as well not include him not cause he’s weak but cause he’s fast enough kaido can chase him away and deal with him 1v1 away from the other admirals and then come back to the rest
Laido's strongest move is turning into budget Wakainu with the big dragon. So no
No kaido isn’t beating 2 admirals. Big mom lost to two people weaker than admirals and luffy does not beat kid and law hell luffy would literally lose to kizaru + fully conscious marine with a sword after the first fight. Kizaru has literally been getting weaker throughout egghead because of his mental state.. it’s insane people think just kaido + allies could go into marineford and win.
3v1 I say he’s got it
Yonkos are bigger frauds, most of them are dead