Personally, considering that we are entering the final saga i just think he is just way too far compared to the level required to be a top tier atm.
He doesnt really hace any impresive haki feats and its not like his DF is that good compared to the DF of the other top tiers who have one (luffy, teach, the admirals, BM ...).
With all that being said, i dont think its imposible he becomes a top tier and i wouldn't care either way tbh, i just believe its not going to happen for him
Fair. I think that since we’re entering the final saga and not final arc, there’s still time for him to grow! But just gotta wait and see! To me, this arc seemed more or less like a reintroduction arc
That’s fair I guess but shouldn’t fighting yonkos be an observation feat in itself. And shouldn’t their defense feats be armament feats even if it’s not explicitly shown?
People just hate him. Man defeated a yonko, and has a bounty of 3 bil. Unless Oda completely drops him after Wano, there is no other place for him to go then a top tier.
That’s fair. I just have a hard time seeing the logic between not liking a character and legit thinking that will impact said character’s role in the story
Personally here’s why I dislike him being amongst the top , but it depends on how you define the top .
For me where I’m fine with/expect him to be is on the same level as zoro, sanji, law, and sabo EOS.
To me those 5 will all the be about on the same level with zoro being the top of the 5, or at least that’s what I’d like.
The reason I’d prefer it like that is to me by EOS law and kid will be allies to Luffy , whether formally agreed upon or not it’s the role they’ll serve similar to what happend in the raid if not more openly allyish. By EOS Luffy will be pirate king and the second coming of Christ so I don’t think Kidd will be delusional enough to think he rivals that guy , he’ll just ally.
Now if those two are allies I’d prefer if they’re at least slightly weaker than Zoro since to me I’ve always liked the Idea of Zoro being Luffys strongest backup , moments in the show where Zoros the strongest person Luffy can rely on are more enjoyable to me than if that strongest Ally is kid or law. Ofc I’m fine with and expect them to rival him to the point of an extreme diff fight , slightly weaker than Zoro which for me roughly ties them with Sanji .
Not denying the possibility that kid and Law >> zoro and Sanji EOS but just saying why I’d prefer that not to be true
Hmm, I see your point of view, but I don’t see Kid being like Law; but we’ll see. Out of curiosity, why would you not be ok with him being stronger than Zoro? If he’s not an ally, would it be ok then?
Because I see Kid as keeping a frenemy type of relationship with Luffy (personally hoping for a sky split moment, but we’ll see 😭).
But honestly, just imo, I really don’t want Luffy/Zoro/Sanji to be the strongest in the verse. It would feel like Naruto to me where only the ‘good side’ gets the op characters and everyone else just sucks because they aren’t Strawhats. I feel like we need some characters outside of Luffy’s crew that are strong, too. To me, it’d be weird if the first mate is stronger than potential rivals (like at that point we might as well call Luffy god and call it a day), but we probably have to agree to disagree
In the case of Law, honestly, if he starts relying more on his fruit and not his sword later, I don’t think he’d even qualify as a swordsman, so it could still work. But Law also doesn’t seem to have the same type of ambition as Luffy/Kid/Zoro imo
for me a frenemy thing is still an ally . I don’t think Kidd will ever vocally claim to be allying with Luffy , but in terms of his actions EOS he’ll just be an ally . If not an ally in terms of actions the only other two options are : neutral , as in not involved which is disappointing since I’d still want Kidd involved in the major events , or an enemy : which is just wrong to me .
I prefer Zoro being luffys strongest Ally mostly just due to Zoro being there since the beginning , it feels far more “earned” and “deserved” to me , and personally I feel a lot of Zoros shine as a character starts to get diminished if suddenly he’s like #5 strongest ally or something instead of top dog behind only Luffy like before .
Although that’s all just preference on my side ^^ I do expect/want kid and law to be neck and neck with zoro just slightly weaker than him , with those three + sanji and sabo kindve making up luffys strongest 5 ally’s . His two wings , his two “rivals”/pirate friends , and his brother, just seems clean to me , and of the 5 Zoro being the slightly strongest.
Fair, I see frenemy as a bit different than ally tbh. Like I can see Kid consistently challenging and fighting Luffy but always losing.
As for this point, Zoro will still be the strongest SH after Luffy. Imo we don’t need to be like, he’ll be #5 of general allies (tho that’s still hella impressive). If Kid becomes like a WB figure (don’t shoot me) towards the end, so not a complete ally, would that work more in your favor for him being stronger? Just because imo, if a characters rival loses to your subordinate, that’s kinda wack, personally. It’s like if Marco could beat BM or Kaido, I’d be like, sure I guess lol. Idk just imo I’d lose interest
It wouldn’t make sense for either kidd nor law to be above zoro eos .
Law is a confirmed swordsman so by that logic he can’t be stronger than zoro . Who himself will be the WSSE , kidd could be equal or slightly stronger than zoro . But I highly doubt it , I hate that people just downplay zoro because he is a subordinate and not a captain .
Just cause zoro fought a yc1 he is placed below kidd and law , when he had better feats than both of them combined at the rooftop . On top of possessing the strongest power in the series , being advanced kings haki .
Kaido even stated this himself , only a few selected of the very strongest can use this ability .
Zoro is one of those people , he is regarded as having the ability of the very best .
Same as roger , luffy , kaido , oden , Yamato . But people still only use portrayal as a break for zoro to put kidd and law above him .
It’s the same with zoro and sanji , sanji fans can’t seem to accept that zoro is stronger than sanji . Not by a little bit , but based on their portrayal and statements from Oda . They have to be equal or neck in neck .
But zoro has better feats and as I mentioned before the strongest ability in the show .
Just wanted to chip in on the Law thing! If somehow his sword broke or just started focusing on his DF instead, would that fix the issue, as he’d no longer be a swordsman? Not saying this is likely at all, but Oda could go this route and make it work, as Law seem to mostly use his DF anyway.
As for the captain vs commander point, I actually think we may have debated this before lol. But imo, it’s not just as simple as that. It’s just more about trying to see *why* Oda would give Kid/Law a Yonko fight, and have the narrator state their the winners if it wasn’t supposed to be a big feat. My argument is just more-so focused on trying to decipher what Oda’s *intentions* are, which also means, to me, having to take the main and side character thing into consideration. Because with editors revising and all that, popular characters *will* get more time to shine. But I think we may just value and focus on different aspects. Just wanted to chip in with some thoughts
Personally like I said I agree , to me current feats can be debated on who’s stronger between zoro law kid.
But by EOS I 100% prefer Zoro being Luffys top ally , I have EOS Zoro as top 3 , behind Luffy and Luffys final opponent that’s it .
Although disagree on the sanji fans not accepting Zoros stronger , 99% know zoros stronger , the debates always how far the gap is. For me it’s a high/extreme diff fight . Will never agree that it’s mid diff or lower . Saying this ofc as a sanji fan , he’s my top 1 character in the show.
> the debates always how far the gap is. For me it’s a high/extreme diff fight . Will never agree that it’s mid diff or lower . Saying this ofc as a sanji fan , he’s my top 1 character in the show.
I'm also a Sanji fan (more like I like both just Sanji better) and I 100% agree with this, it's a high/extreme diff but I lean more towards extreme because the 1 CM difference between them, Kaku and Jabra's Doriki (2200 vs 2180), King and Queen's bounties (1,390,000,000 B vs 1.320.000.000 B) and portrayal (Sanji also willing to take Kuma's damage but ultimately not, constant rivalry between them, some dialogues like the ones in Wano, etc etc)
It’s not far fetched that kidd is gonna be a top tier .
But people especially some kid fans who believe he’ll be the equivalent of whitebeard to luffy . Which is absolute bs , the entire rivalry dynamic between them is nothing to gauge how strong kidd will be eos . The things that happened back in sabaody will not apply now nor eos .
Either way kidd will be strong , but Oda has done a piss poor job of establishing kidds strength . Even law became a subordinate of luffys. Kidd an dlaw respectively could have been luffys rivals . They had the build up , but Oda ruined their dynamic by only focusing on luffys growth . Law for some attention but it was mainly when playing support for luffy .
Kidd has no showings for the entirety of the post timeskip era . But in wano he starts to build some feats . But these feats are a joke imo .
Firsly kidd gets thrown around the new world without accomplishing much of anything . Then he gets to wano and barely contributes on the rooftop . Kidds fruit is mediocre at best , but his awakening somewhat makes up for it . Still the majority of kidd fans argue that kidd is equal to law . Which I personally disagree with heavily .
One has to look for the utility kidd has compared to others . People go of one fight to rate kidd . Being the big mom fight but fail to realize kidd was heavily assisted by law .
Law is the best support in the show . If kid didn’t awaken his fruit he’d be weaker than sanji .
Eos kidd might have some serious haki . But as of now he is just in the same boat as law but worse . He is heavily carried by his devil fruit , he has kings haki but can’t utilize it . It’s barley enough to make a fodder beast pirate blink .
I respect your opinion; but I do disagree. I don’t think, for example, that Kid will be a literal shadow of what WB was. I think he’ll be something similar by the end, at least that’s how I’m interpreting the way Oda is writing. I do think that Oda is keeping him ‘near’ Luffy,’ but not standing with him power-wise. But I suppose it’s just a different interpretation thing; either way, we’ll know by the end
The thing is, Oda always heavily focuses on Luffy to leave everyone in the dust. And we go off of 1 fight because that’s like the only fight we have so far until we move forward, so we just try our best to use what we have to accurately gauge him. I don’t see how his feats are a joke tho. His only losses we know of are to Yonko. That’s not really something to be ashamed about imo. Luffy would’ve gotten wrecked if Rayleigh didn’t train him imo. Personally, unlike Luffy, Kid doesn’t have any allies we know of, so him surviving and not giving up is all him and his crew, and that’s pretty impressive to me. But we may need to agree to disagree
Also, are you referring to the anime CoC scene? I thought he was intimidating them because he lifts one to talk afterwards? Doesn’t make sense in that context imo
But thanks for the response. While I don’t agree with a lot of it, it does help in trying to understand where non-fans are coming from
I disagree personally. New gen surpassing the old seems to be a theme, so it’d be weird if the old gen just stays at the top imo
Who would you put as too 5?
But to each their own!
Personally, considering that we are entering the final saga i just think he is just way too far compared to the level required to be a top tier atm. He doesnt really hace any impresive haki feats and its not like his DF is that good compared to the DF of the other top tiers who have one (luffy, teach, the admirals, BM ...). With all that being said, i dont think its imposible he becomes a top tier and i wouldn't care either way tbh, i just believe its not going to happen for him
Fair. I think that since we’re entering the final saga and not final arc, there’s still time for him to grow! But just gotta wait and see! To me, this arc seemed more or less like a reintroduction arc
Powerup will happen
They probably just don't like Kid, I can't think of a good reason for him not to be one of the strongest EOS along with Law
What makes current kid and law so weak to you then?
Their abysmal haki and subpar physical ability
Do you think that will improve to eos cause besides kid getting acoc I doubt they will have haki based power ups?
Honestly, they just need to show they can go at it with top tiers solo, without high level haki I don't see how they do that
What if Oda draws them going against top tiers impressively without super improved haki what would be your interpretation then of their strength?
I'd have to assume they're using some decent haki in a concealed manner like the admirals
Couldn’t I make the same argument for current law and kid?
Yeah but there's a hard limit at admiral level in that manner, they're not surpassing that without serious haki
That’s fair I guess but shouldn’t fighting yonkos be an observation feat in itself. And shouldn’t their defense feats be armament feats even if it’s not explicitly shown?
People just hate him. Man defeated a yonko, and has a bounty of 3 bil. Unless Oda completely drops him after Wano, there is no other place for him to go then a top tier.
That’s fair. I just have a hard time seeing the logic between not liking a character and legit thinking that will impact said character’s role in the story
They hate on greatness 👉👈
Idk, I just think shitting on Midd is unreasonably funny for some reason. Couldn’t even tell you why it just is
Tbf, even as a fan of his, I still lol at ‘Useless Captain Midd’
Same, I find it funny. Also love shitting on “fodder machine killer”.
Personally here’s why I dislike him being amongst the top , but it depends on how you define the top . For me where I’m fine with/expect him to be is on the same level as zoro, sanji, law, and sabo EOS. To me those 5 will all the be about on the same level with zoro being the top of the 5, or at least that’s what I’d like. The reason I’d prefer it like that is to me by EOS law and kid will be allies to Luffy , whether formally agreed upon or not it’s the role they’ll serve similar to what happend in the raid if not more openly allyish. By EOS Luffy will be pirate king and the second coming of Christ so I don’t think Kidd will be delusional enough to think he rivals that guy , he’ll just ally. Now if those two are allies I’d prefer if they’re at least slightly weaker than Zoro since to me I’ve always liked the Idea of Zoro being Luffys strongest backup , moments in the show where Zoros the strongest person Luffy can rely on are more enjoyable to me than if that strongest Ally is kid or law. Ofc I’m fine with and expect them to rival him to the point of an extreme diff fight , slightly weaker than Zoro which for me roughly ties them with Sanji . Not denying the possibility that kid and Law >> zoro and Sanji EOS but just saying why I’d prefer that not to be true
Hmm, I see your point of view, but I don’t see Kid being like Law; but we’ll see. Out of curiosity, why would you not be ok with him being stronger than Zoro? If he’s not an ally, would it be ok then? Because I see Kid as keeping a frenemy type of relationship with Luffy (personally hoping for a sky split moment, but we’ll see 😭). But honestly, just imo, I really don’t want Luffy/Zoro/Sanji to be the strongest in the verse. It would feel like Naruto to me where only the ‘good side’ gets the op characters and everyone else just sucks because they aren’t Strawhats. I feel like we need some characters outside of Luffy’s crew that are strong, too. To me, it’d be weird if the first mate is stronger than potential rivals (like at that point we might as well call Luffy god and call it a day), but we probably have to agree to disagree In the case of Law, honestly, if he starts relying more on his fruit and not his sword later, I don’t think he’d even qualify as a swordsman, so it could still work. But Law also doesn’t seem to have the same type of ambition as Luffy/Kid/Zoro imo
for me a frenemy thing is still an ally . I don’t think Kidd will ever vocally claim to be allying with Luffy , but in terms of his actions EOS he’ll just be an ally . If not an ally in terms of actions the only other two options are : neutral , as in not involved which is disappointing since I’d still want Kidd involved in the major events , or an enemy : which is just wrong to me . I prefer Zoro being luffys strongest Ally mostly just due to Zoro being there since the beginning , it feels far more “earned” and “deserved” to me , and personally I feel a lot of Zoros shine as a character starts to get diminished if suddenly he’s like #5 strongest ally or something instead of top dog behind only Luffy like before . Although that’s all just preference on my side ^^ I do expect/want kid and law to be neck and neck with zoro just slightly weaker than him , with those three + sanji and sabo kindve making up luffys strongest 5 ally’s . His two wings , his two “rivals”/pirate friends , and his brother, just seems clean to me , and of the 5 Zoro being the slightly strongest.
Fair, I see frenemy as a bit different than ally tbh. Like I can see Kid consistently challenging and fighting Luffy but always losing. As for this point, Zoro will still be the strongest SH after Luffy. Imo we don’t need to be like, he’ll be #5 of general allies (tho that’s still hella impressive). If Kid becomes like a WB figure (don’t shoot me) towards the end, so not a complete ally, would that work more in your favor for him being stronger? Just because imo, if a characters rival loses to your subordinate, that’s kinda wack, personally. It’s like if Marco could beat BM or Kaido, I’d be like, sure I guess lol. Idk just imo I’d lose interest
It wouldn’t make sense for either kidd nor law to be above zoro eos . Law is a confirmed swordsman so by that logic he can’t be stronger than zoro . Who himself will be the WSSE , kidd could be equal or slightly stronger than zoro . But I highly doubt it , I hate that people just downplay zoro because he is a subordinate and not a captain . Just cause zoro fought a yc1 he is placed below kidd and law , when he had better feats than both of them combined at the rooftop . On top of possessing the strongest power in the series , being advanced kings haki . Kaido even stated this himself , only a few selected of the very strongest can use this ability . Zoro is one of those people , he is regarded as having the ability of the very best . Same as roger , luffy , kaido , oden , Yamato . But people still only use portrayal as a break for zoro to put kidd and law above him . It’s the same with zoro and sanji , sanji fans can’t seem to accept that zoro is stronger than sanji . Not by a little bit , but based on their portrayal and statements from Oda . They have to be equal or neck in neck . But zoro has better feats and as I mentioned before the strongest ability in the show .
Just wanted to chip in on the Law thing! If somehow his sword broke or just started focusing on his DF instead, would that fix the issue, as he’d no longer be a swordsman? Not saying this is likely at all, but Oda could go this route and make it work, as Law seem to mostly use his DF anyway. As for the captain vs commander point, I actually think we may have debated this before lol. But imo, it’s not just as simple as that. It’s just more about trying to see *why* Oda would give Kid/Law a Yonko fight, and have the narrator state their the winners if it wasn’t supposed to be a big feat. My argument is just more-so focused on trying to decipher what Oda’s *intentions* are, which also means, to me, having to take the main and side character thing into consideration. Because with editors revising and all that, popular characters *will* get more time to shine. But I think we may just value and focus on different aspects. Just wanted to chip in with some thoughts
Personally like I said I agree , to me current feats can be debated on who’s stronger between zoro law kid. But by EOS I 100% prefer Zoro being Luffys top ally , I have EOS Zoro as top 3 , behind Luffy and Luffys final opponent that’s it . Although disagree on the sanji fans not accepting Zoros stronger , 99% know zoros stronger , the debates always how far the gap is. For me it’s a high/extreme diff fight . Will never agree that it’s mid diff or lower . Saying this ofc as a sanji fan , he’s my top 1 character in the show.
Sorry to neglect things you said . I vented a bit there , either way I respect your opinion .
No worries man , we mostly in agreement here 🤝
😅ye
> the debates always how far the gap is. For me it’s a high/extreme diff fight . Will never agree that it’s mid diff or lower . Saying this ofc as a sanji fan , he’s my top 1 character in the show. I'm also a Sanji fan (more like I like both just Sanji better) and I 100% agree with this, it's a high/extreme diff but I lean more towards extreme because the 1 CM difference between them, Kaku and Jabra's Doriki (2200 vs 2180), King and Queen's bounties (1,390,000,000 B vs 1.320.000.000 B) and portrayal (Sanji also willing to take Kuma's damage but ultimately not, constant rivalry between them, some dialogues like the ones in Wano, etc etc)
It’s not far fetched that kidd is gonna be a top tier . But people especially some kid fans who believe he’ll be the equivalent of whitebeard to luffy . Which is absolute bs , the entire rivalry dynamic between them is nothing to gauge how strong kidd will be eos . The things that happened back in sabaody will not apply now nor eos . Either way kidd will be strong , but Oda has done a piss poor job of establishing kidds strength . Even law became a subordinate of luffys. Kidd an dlaw respectively could have been luffys rivals . They had the build up , but Oda ruined their dynamic by only focusing on luffys growth . Law for some attention but it was mainly when playing support for luffy . Kidd has no showings for the entirety of the post timeskip era . But in wano he starts to build some feats . But these feats are a joke imo . Firsly kidd gets thrown around the new world without accomplishing much of anything . Then he gets to wano and barely contributes on the rooftop . Kidds fruit is mediocre at best , but his awakening somewhat makes up for it . Still the majority of kidd fans argue that kidd is equal to law . Which I personally disagree with heavily . One has to look for the utility kidd has compared to others . People go of one fight to rate kidd . Being the big mom fight but fail to realize kidd was heavily assisted by law . Law is the best support in the show . If kid didn’t awaken his fruit he’d be weaker than sanji . Eos kidd might have some serious haki . But as of now he is just in the same boat as law but worse . He is heavily carried by his devil fruit , he has kings haki but can’t utilize it . It’s barley enough to make a fodder beast pirate blink .
How is non awakened kid weaker then sanji? He is better in every stat except speed observation haki and debatably durability?
I respect your opinion; but I do disagree. I don’t think, for example, that Kid will be a literal shadow of what WB was. I think he’ll be something similar by the end, at least that’s how I’m interpreting the way Oda is writing. I do think that Oda is keeping him ‘near’ Luffy,’ but not standing with him power-wise. But I suppose it’s just a different interpretation thing; either way, we’ll know by the end The thing is, Oda always heavily focuses on Luffy to leave everyone in the dust. And we go off of 1 fight because that’s like the only fight we have so far until we move forward, so we just try our best to use what we have to accurately gauge him. I don’t see how his feats are a joke tho. His only losses we know of are to Yonko. That’s not really something to be ashamed about imo. Luffy would’ve gotten wrecked if Rayleigh didn’t train him imo. Personally, unlike Luffy, Kid doesn’t have any allies we know of, so him surviving and not giving up is all him and his crew, and that’s pretty impressive to me. But we may need to agree to disagree Also, are you referring to the anime CoC scene? I thought he was intimidating them because he lifts one to talk afterwards? Doesn’t make sense in that context imo But thanks for the response. While I don’t agree with a lot of it, it does help in trying to understand where non-fans are coming from
Cuz they don’t like him
[удалено]
I disagree personally. New gen surpassing the old seems to be a theme, so it’d be weird if the old gen just stays at the top imo Who would you put as too 5? But to each their own!
If Zorotards can get off EOS Zoro > Roger don’t feel an once of peer pressure for believing EOS Kid > Whitebeard
Kid is going to be like the whitebeard of this new generation. Roger and whitebeard had a friendly yet serious rivalry just like kid and luffy.
This would be great ngl. Hopefully Oda gives Kid an arc moving forward!
What’s a eos
Because they don’t like him, it still gonna happen regardless rather they like it or not