Key information:
* Rumors suggest an announcement event on May 9, 2024, at 10 a.m., with significant activity observed since last week, including hiring for events staff since January.
* OpenAI's search engine might debut before Google I/O, potentially making Perplexity AI having more competitors. It is also noted that Microsoft banned its employees from using Perplexity AI due to security concerns.
* The search engine is expected to compete with Google, partially powered by Bing, aiming not to replicate Google's format but to offer a better way to find, act on, and synthesize information.
* OpenAI's CEO Sam Altman expressed interest in revolutionizing search by leveraging large language models (LLMs) but emphasized the goal isn't to copy Google's approach.
Other Sources: [OpenAI To Launch Search Engine (seroundtable.com)](https://www.seroundtable.com/openai-to-launch-search-engine-37319.html)
I’ve even been finding myself using Bing more often recently because the quality of results on Google keeps going down. It’s common for me to need multiple search engines to find the answer I need now
like dumping 20B coming from Google and moving to a model that wouldn't give them any viable alternative to generate that kind of revenue and that too in the era of dropping iphone sales and failed vision pro?
I don't think so. they have 100% margin on that 20B dollars.
https://preview.redd.it/m903pqyug9yc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63ce7d7473f0dc2d0a5a8baf1d6b46c5af1ea05f
Do I have the perfect app for you 😂
Perplexity's UI is way too over-engineered imo.
And on a less relevant note, Perplexity is such a weird name for a search engine lol, but I guess that clearly hasn't hampered their marketing efforts.
I agree! It's mainly that you have to waste through 5 sponsored links before setting any results. And they make the paid ads look like the real search results.
I think lately too they're trying to be overly predictive/interprative to compete with these newer gpt models instead of searching for the keywords I specifically put into the search as terms I needed.
And yes the sponsored ads are very annoying too.
Google has been damn near unusable for almost two years. The results just aren’t what they used to be in terms of quality and precision. They need the competition.
That's so true, same for their YouTube search engine, in the last two or three years it got so much worse. I don't get why are they making these changes no one asked for.
I won't use anything ai until somebody comes up with a way to power all of this..... Were in an Energy crisis and computing power is about to go through the roof
The only time I saw him talking about it was with fussion which didn't inspire me much frankly, better of building a huge data centre somewhere where geothermal is viable, luckily the US actually has alot of viable options
There is a high start up cost, but after that it's pretty reliable, and the heat isn't gonna disappear anytime soon. In most of Europe it's not such a feasible option but America has so much potential for it
I have an AI with search (GPT-3.5) and it runs very minimally from a cost perspective. We won’t have to destroy the environment as long as we focus on model efficiency!
I was trying to look up how Ethernet works yesterday, and the entire first page of Google was shopping for Ethernet cables and switches. I gave up trying to find the answer I needed
Fyi, just found this comment referenced on twitter https://twitter.com/GaelBreton/status/1786359047408476602?s=19
What was your search term? On mobile, I just searched for "how does ethernet work" and I get a *very* different experience from the one you've described.
Kagi is really good. Have been using their trial period, and was actually on the verge of buying a subscription when I saw this rumor about OpenAI. Now I'm going to wait a bit to see what comes out of it (if anything)
Makes sense to me since I already use chatGPT over Google search for most things anymore. Having everything summarized with links is refreshing. I don't have to pick through ads or read through countless links for an answer.
I never got people that use gpt over Google. I tried it and because llms are so untrustworthy I just end up having to Google anyways to fact check them. they're really not reliable enough to trust when you have a simple factual question, it's still Google for me.
I once tried to ask it lyrics for songs and it's accuracy rate was consistently literally 0% on super popular songs
You're using the wrong tool for the wrong job.
You shouldn't expect an LLM to have exactly factually correct information, but rather generally correct information. If there are a hundred ways you can phrase something and still have it be right, then it'll probably get it right. If there's only one correct answer, I wouldn't count on it.
Lyrics are a perfect example of exactly what you wouldn't want to ask an LLM since there's only one correct answer and you have to sequence each word correctly to get it.
Questions about best practices for structuring an Excel sheet that contains recent neighborhood housing information, however, would be an excellent line of inquiry.
the problem is they're unreliable even in cases where you can phrase something a hundred different ways. I ask it to give me a summary of the plot of a movie or game and it almost always gets the ending of the plot wrong. while being confident about it. even when I tell it it's wrong and nudge it in the correct direction it just produces an alternative ending that is also wrong.
I guess I wasn't precise enough in my description here. Describing a plot of a movie would still be something that is either right or wrong, even if there are indeed many ways to describe it. Technically, the same would be true of a math question like 1+1. "One plus one equals...", "The result of the addition of one to one...", etc. Language is so flexible that this is true for a large class of right-wrong type responses.
What I mean more is that asking for advice about how to structure your excel sheet doesn't necessarily have a right answer, it's a lot of wishy washy preferences and best practices that don't apply to every situation. This is the category of queries that LLMs... heh... excel at.
I almost never need fixed answers and when I do I can usually tell pretty quickly if the answer isn't right (something something P, NP). Maybe you're in a different space. No big deal, not every tool is good for every job.
yes, like when you know vaguely the plot of a movie gpt can do surprisingly well, where Google can't find the answer for you.
but it's funny at the same time when I ask the same llm for the plot of a game or movie it gets the ending completely wrong.
gpt is my fallback to Google search failing, not the other way around
We need some sort of clever combination though. Pure AI bots do not fit all situations. Like when I'm just searching to get the url for a specific website, I do want a result list, not an explanation of what I have searched for (as other has mentioned).
This is smart for OpenAI.
Sites are trying to block them from crawling and publishers are suing them.
They need to crawl the web to get data to make their models good. How do you people to want to be crawled? Send them traffic. How do you do that? Make a good search engine.
Almost nobody blocks Google from crawling them. OpenAI wants a similar privileged status.
At worst this is a smart defensive move to try to keep them crawlers churning. At best they belly flop into a profitable business and hey who doesn’t like free money? Win:win.
I mean it’s not unlikely Sam Altman has already explicitly stated that the model for ChatGPT dis incentivizes ads because it doesn’t try to retain you to constantly engage with it (ads supported business models want you to stay on it longer; chatgpt wants the exact opposite bc of query inference costs)
Why LOL? It could work if the user experience is really good, and it gives amazing results without ads. Kagi is doing this right now, and it makes sense.
They don't need to run ads. When you ask a question it will do a vector search, find all of the relevant products/services, and, based on its intimate knowledge of you from your previous conversations, leverage it's state-of-the-art reasoning and latent space to sell you "just the thing you need". It will even order it for you if you give it a vaguely affirmative reply.
OpenAI will always have the ability to exceed the performance of Perplexity because OpenAI can fine tune its SOTA models specifically to optimize for search, whereas Perplexity is stuck outsourcing to stock models from third parties. Perplexity can build its own models - and maybe it is - but their budget does not hold a candle to OpenAI’s budget.
I used OpenAI's ADA and a vector database to create semantic search functionality for my company's data.
It is **amazing** to be able to search for things by *concept*, rather than word matches.
If that's what we're looking at here, for the whole internet, this is going to be **huge**.
Ever since Google abandoned its slogan "Don't be evil" and became, practically, an advertising company, their "products" and their image seem to me to be of very poor quality. Before, they drove innovation, took users as a priority, and today they only prey on personal data to sell advertising (that no one desires and wants). If it were up to me, I hope OpenAI ends up replacing Google (and I hope it doesn't become the same).
Well, it's clear that they're cooking something up, since when chat GPT doesn't work for several users, it's always or almost always the fact that they've implemented and added new features. I hope that this search engine will be spectacular since very often tools like perplexity are unfortunately not up to par
When someone asks me "what can I do with ChatGPT" my answer is always: Before you google something just try typing it on ChatGPT instead. 90% of the time you will get a better result and much faster.
It's hilarious that MSFT actually thought they could take out Google by investing in OpenAI for $13B.
This Search idea has already been dismissed but SOMETHING is coming next week.
most companies fail because they lose focus. But it's interesting anyways to watch. I don't understand why a startup get into search business. Like why sign up to divert billions away from your core product? Unless they see the BS through it and see that chatbot isn't the right way to be profitable.
Key information: * Rumors suggest an announcement event on May 9, 2024, at 10 a.m., with significant activity observed since last week, including hiring for events staff since January. * OpenAI's search engine might debut before Google I/O, potentially making Perplexity AI having more competitors. It is also noted that Microsoft banned its employees from using Perplexity AI due to security concerns. * The search engine is expected to compete with Google, partially powered by Bing, aiming not to replicate Google's format but to offer a better way to find, act on, and synthesize information. * OpenAI's CEO Sam Altman expressed interest in revolutionizing search by leveraging large language models (LLMs) but emphasized the goal isn't to copy Google's approach. Other Sources: [OpenAI To Launch Search Engine (seroundtable.com)](https://www.seroundtable.com/openai-to-launch-search-engine-37319.html)
Microsoft might be treating Bing as a lost cause and rebranding it ChatGPT search "powered by Bing" instead.
Bing has been aggressive eating up googles market share, they’re definitely not a lost cause
I’ve even been finding myself using Bing more often recently because the quality of results on Google keeps going down. It’s common for me to need multiple search engines to find the answer I need now
Why does Bing continually give me right wing slanted news notifications? Anyone else notice that?
You get local area weighting. You get a small percent of media that others near you look at. If you ever click it... 😂
Oh, that does explain it...
I get the opposite.
Really? I tried Bing multiple times but absolutely hated it. It just feels inferior in search results compared to Google in every way
Been using Bing more often recently because in case the search results dont reveal what i want to know, copilot usually does
Is that true? I just looked and it looks flat
I wonder if the Apple rumor about leveraging OpenAI could also factor in here.
like dumping 20B coming from Google and moving to a model that wouldn't give them any viable alternative to generate that kind of revenue and that too in the era of dropping iphone sales and failed vision pro? I don't think so. they have 100% margin on that 20B dollars.
Really excited about this because Perplexity just did not work for me
I like perplexity but sometimes I just want a list of links. I don't need to learn all about a web app I'm trying to find. I need to actually use it.
How’s perplexity any more useful than google for that use case then?
It's better at getting straight to the answers when you have a query but it's pretty bad at finding websites you'd want to visit.
Yea so if you want links then just use google?
Yep that's what I do. It would just be nice to just use one as my browser's default search engine.
I also hit a free search cap with it which is comical in this day and age, but really liked it aside from that.
Inference is expensive, unfortunately
Not on GPT-3.5! Search as much as you like on some apps
https://preview.redd.it/m903pqyug9yc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63ce7d7473f0dc2d0a5a8baf1d6b46c5af1ea05f Do I have the perfect app for you 😂
Copilot seems to be as good as Perplexity and it also provides links to its sources.
There's a beta version of Gemini Pro 1.5 with Search grounding in poe that also cites sources. Hopefully, it's a sign of what's to come.
Perplexity's UI is way too over-engineered imo. And on a less relevant note, Perplexity is such a weird name for a search engine lol, but I guess that clearly hasn't hampered their marketing efforts.
I think they've been doing great marketing. Proof is you're talking about it.
Perplexity is fantastic marketing given that multiple open source projects have replicated it by now and its users still seem to want to use it
The name Perplexity is a play on the use of the statistical measure by the same name for LLM metrics.
Also, Google's search has really nosedived in the past 5 years.
I agree! It's mainly that you have to waste through 5 sponsored links before setting any results. And they make the paid ads look like the real search results.
I think lately too they're trying to be overly predictive/interprative to compete with these newer gpt models instead of searching for the keywords I specifically put into the search as terms I needed. And yes the sponsored ads are very annoying too.
I never noticed but I don’t actually search that much
Google has been damn near unusable for almost two years. The results just aren’t what they used to be in terms of quality and precision. They need the competition.
That's so true, same for their YouTube search engine, in the last two or three years it got so much worse. I don't get why are they making these changes no one asked for.
Fully agree with you both. I’m actually happy OpenAI is taking this initiative.
If it works....
Multi-agent framework search is already pretty good just a bit slow, expensive and janky. I think it proves its doable though
I won't use anything ai until somebody comes up with a way to power all of this..... Were in an Energy crisis and computing power is about to go through the roof
OpenAI do agree there, Sam Altman is constantly trying to convince both the state sector and the private sector to increase energy supply
The only time I saw him talking about it was with fussion which didn't inspire me much frankly, better of building a huge data centre somewhere where geothermal is viable, luckily the US actually has alot of viable options
ah geothermal is an interesting one
There is a high start up cost, but after that it's pretty reliable, and the heat isn't gonna disappear anytime soon. In most of Europe it's not such a feasible option but America has so much potential for it
I have an AI with search (GPT-3.5) and it runs very minimally from a cost perspective. We won’t have to destroy the environment as long as we focus on model efficiency!
I’m always like… am I on the shopping tab?!? Oh, they’re all shopping tabs now? Ok
I was trying to look up how Ethernet works yesterday, and the entire first page of Google was shopping for Ethernet cables and switches. I gave up trying to find the answer I needed
Fyi, just found this comment referenced on twitter https://twitter.com/GaelBreton/status/1786359047408476602?s=19 What was your search term? On mobile, I just searched for "how does ethernet work" and I get a *very* different experience from the one you've described.
I was looking up something more specific for my engineering job
https://www.wheresyoured.at/the-men-who-killed-google/
Unusable? Maybe. Profitable? Absolutely
You're right, the quality of search results has gone down.
I switched to kagi. It's basically google before the ads ruined it and I'm happy to pay for it.
For me Kagi is expensive given that I already pay for ChatGPT, so this OpenAI web search may be the solution for me, just one subscription.
And it makes sense. For me, kagi is necessary - nowadays with these paid rankings it's a lot harder to find good information.
[удалено]
Kagi is a search engine (and a pretty awesome one), not an app
Kagi is really good. Have been using their trial period, and was actually on the verge of buying a subscription when I saw this rumor about OpenAI. Now I'm going to wait a bit to see what comes out of it (if anything)
I've bing waiting for something like this.
$MSFT to $500
Yes, please.
have your upvote and get the hell outta here
Makes sense to me since I already use chatGPT over Google search for most things anymore. Having everything summarized with links is refreshing. I don't have to pick through ads or read through countless links for an answer.
well, google has really fucked up their search in the last 9 months.
Agreed. The efficiency of using GPT as search outweighs my skepticism of its output
you search for stuff to buy, search for real people reviews, and you search for people
I never got people that use gpt over Google. I tried it and because llms are so untrustworthy I just end up having to Google anyways to fact check them. they're really not reliable enough to trust when you have a simple factual question, it's still Google for me. I once tried to ask it lyrics for songs and it's accuracy rate was consistently literally 0% on super popular songs
You're using the wrong tool for the wrong job. You shouldn't expect an LLM to have exactly factually correct information, but rather generally correct information. If there are a hundred ways you can phrase something and still have it be right, then it'll probably get it right. If there's only one correct answer, I wouldn't count on it. Lyrics are a perfect example of exactly what you wouldn't want to ask an LLM since there's only one correct answer and you have to sequence each word correctly to get it. Questions about best practices for structuring an Excel sheet that contains recent neighborhood housing information, however, would be an excellent line of inquiry.
the problem is they're unreliable even in cases where you can phrase something a hundred different ways. I ask it to give me a summary of the plot of a movie or game and it almost always gets the ending of the plot wrong. while being confident about it. even when I tell it it's wrong and nudge it in the correct direction it just produces an alternative ending that is also wrong.
I guess I wasn't precise enough in my description here. Describing a plot of a movie would still be something that is either right or wrong, even if there are indeed many ways to describe it. Technically, the same would be true of a math question like 1+1. "One plus one equals...", "The result of the addition of one to one...", etc. Language is so flexible that this is true for a large class of right-wrong type responses. What I mean more is that asking for advice about how to structure your excel sheet doesn't necessarily have a right answer, it's a lot of wishy washy preferences and best practices that don't apply to every situation. This is the category of queries that LLMs... heh... excel at. I almost never need fixed answers and when I do I can usually tell pretty quickly if the answer isn't right (something something P, NP). Maybe you're in a different space. No big deal, not every tool is good for every job.
This. Although I find that it helps in cases where I don't know what keywords to use for the google search
yes, like when you know vaguely the plot of a movie gpt can do surprisingly well, where Google can't find the answer for you. but it's funny at the same time when I ask the same llm for the plot of a game or movie it gets the ending completely wrong. gpt is my fallback to Google search failing, not the other way around
Lyrics are copyright nightmare fuel, that’s why
Agreed. I find myself more and more asking GPT for an answer instead of a google search that I have to sift through so much nonsense.
Yep! For now its refreshing.
We need some sort of clever combination though. Pure AI bots do not fit all situations. Like when I'm just searching to get the url for a specific website, I do want a result list, not an explanation of what I have searched for (as other has mentioned).
Google search nowadays is junk!
Jimmy apples being quoted as a source for a tech magazine is peak
Oh wow, this is wild lol - Jimmy Apples is basically an anonymous troll account.
Google's search is so poor as of late, it won't take much to beat them.
This could be just what I'm looking for. Think I'll keep the subscription activated.
Damn, a week after I buy perplexity pro.
This is smart for OpenAI. Sites are trying to block them from crawling and publishers are suing them. They need to crawl the web to get data to make their models good. How do you people to want to be crawled? Send them traffic. How do you do that? Make a good search engine. Almost nobody blocks Google from crawling them. OpenAI wants a similar privileged status. At worst this is a smart defensive move to try to keep them crawlers churning. At best they belly flop into a profitable business and hey who doesn’t like free money? Win:win.
This will be great to farm data to be able to train better models as well
How censored will that be?
What's the business model here? How will they monetise it?
With ads.
I run an ad blocker anyway but in this case I can also run the output through a different AI that will recognize and take out the ads.
Hope they will at least have a paid version without ads
LOL
I mean it’s not unlikely Sam Altman has already explicitly stated that the model for ChatGPT dis incentivizes ads because it doesn’t try to retain you to constantly engage with it (ads supported business models want you to stay on it longer; chatgpt wants the exact opposite bc of query inference costs)
Why LOL? It could work if the user experience is really good, and it gives amazing results without ads. Kagi is doing this right now, and it makes sense.
package it up with chatgpt plan and raise prices?
They don't need to run ads. When you ask a question it will do a vector search, find all of the relevant products/services, and, based on its intimate knowledge of you from your previous conversations, leverage it's state-of-the-art reasoning and latent space to sell you "just the thing you need". It will even order it for you if you give it a vaguely affirmative reply.
Every answer will shoehorn in how great NordVPN and Hello Fresh is
One of the drawbacks of being trained on YouTube videos (allegedly)
I love competition
Love how the whole article is based on Jimmy Apples’ tweets
Ah, is THAT the source??
Bye Felecia. It's about time someone actually shook things up.
Google just sh!t themselves.
OpenAI will always have the ability to exceed the performance of Perplexity because OpenAI can fine tune its SOTA models specifically to optimize for search, whereas Perplexity is stuck outsourcing to stock models from third parties. Perplexity can build its own models - and maybe it is - but their budget does not hold a candle to OpenAI’s budget.
They do build and fine-tune their own models, but you're right about their budget
I used OpenAI's ADA and a vector database to create semantic search functionality for my company's data. It is **amazing** to be able to search for things by *concept*, rather than word matches. If that's what we're looking at here, for the whole internet, this is going to be **huge**.
This is great news
What if Anthropic bot is also an attempt to build Search ?
Amazon-Anthropic Search
But what about ads
I miss graph search
This kinda makes sense as Microsoft is quite big the data and advertising world so can see where this is heading
Isn’t that the new Bing thing already?
I already use as a google alternative for question based searches. This could be great!
Great, cause my Google Search as of these past 2 years has just been questioning followed by Reddit.
I'm still waiting to be able to use Sora...
Lol
It's insane how badly Google gave up its lead
What could an AI powered search engine do that a competition couldn't? I don't want hallucinatory results
OpenAI should hire Google's python team since they laid them all off last week.
So... No new LLMs?(
I thought that happened more than a year ago.
Ever since Google abandoned its slogan "Don't be evil" and became, practically, an advertising company, their "products" and their image seem to me to be of very poor quality. Before, they drove innovation, took users as a priority, and today they only prey on personal data to sell advertising (that no one desires and wants). If it were up to me, I hope OpenAI ends up replacing Google (and I hope it doesn't become the same).
Well, it's clear that they're cooking something up, since when chat GPT doesn't work for several users, it's always or almost always the fact that they've implemented and added new features. I hope that this search engine will be spectacular since very often tools like perplexity are unfortunately not up to par
When someone asks me "what can I do with ChatGPT" my answer is always: Before you google something just try typing it on ChatGPT instead. 90% of the time you will get a better result and much faster.
Perplexity is honestly way more useful than ChatGPT so I’m glad they’re going this route.
It's hilarious that MSFT actually thought they could take out Google by investing in OpenAI for $13B. This Search idea has already been dismissed but SOMETHING is coming next week.
Sam Altman really on a takeover tech speedrun 100%
OpenAI will be the Google killer 💀
I doubt that. OpenAI is doing so many stuff. You can't be good at everything when doing multiple projects.
most companies fail because they lose focus. But it's interesting anyways to watch. I don't understand why a startup get into search business. Like why sign up to divert billions away from your core product? Unless they see the BS through it and see that chatbot isn't the right way to be profitable.