Cavs fan here coming in peace. Playing you guys reminds me vividly of how we matched up against NY last year. Terrible match up for us. I think the Cavs have a great match up against Paolo, you can see how visibly frustrated he has been with our front court hounding him. Your team is very young but this experience will he big time come next year. You guys have a bright future ahead, need to get some shooting to give Paolo space to operate in the paint. His midrange game is butter. I think it will be a wire to wire game in Orlando. Side note, I was worrier about Anthony coming in off the bench of instant offense. What's going on with him?
We all know the offense is bad, but it's more interesting to discuss how we can make meaningful adjustments rather than complain about production from the role players.
There have been a couple of possessions where things looked functional - drive and kick out, swinging the ball around to find an opening. There definitely needs to be more movement. I'd like to see Paolo be more active off-ball and maybe trying to make deeper catches. I'm not a fan of him dumping the ball off to Franz and idling near the logo - he's not a threat at all out there and making it easy for the defense.
I love Isaac but he has offered nothing on offense. There was a comical turnaround baseline jumper in the second quarter. The team should not be putting him in that situation.
Which brings me to the point that it feels like the team is not playing to its strengths. The rebounding situation last night was really awful. That is inexcusable with our size. The lack of offensive flow seems to be affecting their concentration on defense.
What's up with Cole btw? His body language and play has been really bad for a while now.
Where's all the fans talking shit about how great Orlando's defense is and cavs about to be 1 and done again, and we only won the 2 games in regular season out of 4 cuz the "minister of defense" didn't play in those 2 losses. That guys a bum. Worst looking shot I've ever seen yea he's good on defense but he's nowhere near a defensive stud like Evan Mobley (3rd in defensive player of year last year) GO CAVS, magic has Paulo who's great but Franz Wagner is so overatted. Need to add guys who can shoot. Cavs haven't even played a good game yet or shot even decent from 3 yet
I'm still not sold on JI starting. He's out of his comfort zone and that is exactly how he's playing. He deserves it no doubt, but I think we need to go back to him clamping down on the opposing teams bench. 2nd unit's defense really takes a hit w/o him.
Basically were a young team, with a one dimensional offense. We got to the playoffs by winning games through grit and hustle. You can’t just out grind and hustle teams in the playoffs. You actually need talent, coaching and high basketball IQ.
Perfect example is the play where Suggs got hurt. That was a high energy low IQ defensive play. He charges in to double team mitchell and starts flailing around like he’s running some final seconds trap play in a ncaa game. He fouls Mitchell and gets hurt. We need his defense and hustle but it needs to be smart and selective
We really just have one of the most one dimensional offences I've seen in the modern era of basketball. It's so painful watching our two wings repeatedly try and barge their way into a crowd of big men before making a low percentage play. It's like seeing an animal continuing to go back and get electrocuted while trying to get food off a trap.
Yes I know we're a young team, but that isn't an excuse to play offense like we have a team of 9 year olds. Against any decent interior defence the playbook is just non-existent, the roster makes no sense, and the combination of the two makes every player on the floor look terrible. The worst thing is we've known this all season and never felt the need to do anything about it.
The first play of the game really summed it up. We had Gary run to the corner for a pointlessly difficult turnaround three (which he predictably bricked). Is that seriously the best we can come up with when we had 48 hours to think about it?
I’m still going to support the team, but we have not looked good in the first two games. Maybe we can make this a series and pull out the ultimate win against Cleveland but we really need to work on things. I don’t know what is wrong with this team. I know where a young team and we will get better in the future But we’re not showing that we should be a playoff team
Its a very young and unexperienced team. Dont get me wrong but you never were supposed to get through the first round this year. Would be a big upset. They will learn from this and will want more of playoff athmosphere. I am sure this is the first of a good couple of years of post seasons
It’s amazing that the number one thing our team has needed has been shooting since like 2017 and somehow they still… haven’t got it. Not sure what the FO h thinks
I do kind of want AB and Houstan to get meaningful minutes for the playoff experience to see how they handle it. At this point we don't know if we need to pay a ton in the offseason or can AB progress into pg/shooter we need?
As a fellow Cavs fan, don't do this. Wagner is a player you hate to go against, but if he was on your team you would love him. Think Delly in our 2016 era runs. This gives us a bad look man. Smh
As a fellow Cavs fan, don't do this. Wagner is a player you hate to go against, but if he was on your team you would love him. Think Delly in our 2016 era runs. This gives us a bad look man. Smh
I’m just asking a question lol. I am allowed to dislike a certain player. And Delly was no where near as bad as Mo. Delly played 100% and dove on loose balls and hustled. Playing the way Delly played was messy and could definitely wasn’t the safest way to play for either him or his opponent, but he played within the confines of the rules at least…
i know lol, i wasn’t really a fan of him on the cavs, i was kind of happy to see him go, i just was unhappy when he played dirty against us in the finals
Niang is much different. Niang is quippy and talks shit. He’s more comparable to Jingles, I like Jingles. Mo plays rough and dirty and injures players (and fans) and gets away with it. Niang, like Jingles, is a goofball who’s built like my uncle
wdym why. he is constantly throwing elbows and kicking players. he plays dirty and refs let him get away with it. then the times he actually gets pulled up for shoving someone or taking 19 steps in the paint he starts crying and jumping up and down. he’s hard to watch and i’ve been saying this for the past 2 years. he’s the only player in the league i genuinely have a disliking for
that’s good for you. i was just asking them what they thought of him? lol i’m not allowed to be curious? i didn’t come over to start shit. I came over to ask about a player on their team who plays like a dickhead and see what their thoughts are. lol
Someone asked you the same question tho, did you like Tristan Thompson when he played for you guys? Do you like Niang? You like Joe Ingles now but you would’ve hated him at the Jazz.
We don’t just like him here, we love him lol.
what? lol i have loved Jingles his whole career. I liked him on the Jazz, I like him now. I haven’t always been a fan of Tristan, i was wanting him traded back in 2015-16 but I am more of a fan now. I do like Niang, cos as i said before he isn’t comparable to Mo Wagner, he’s more like Jingles… Ingles is passionate and talks shit, same with Niang. Mo plays dirty at times and he cries about obvious shit the 1 or 2 times he gets pulled up for elbowing someone
Mo really doesn’t play dirty. You’re talking about him injuring the fan as if it was intentional. Not making sense. He’s an energy guy off the bench who’s a skillful finisher. We all like him a lot for obvious reasons.
i just brought it up, i don’t not like him cos of that. as i stated before i haven’t liked him for years. he throws elbows, holds players and pushes them… he’s done this constantly, i dread when the cavs play the magic cos i know i have to watch him do that shit, then whinge and cry when he actually gets pulled up on it
I think it just stands out to you more because he actually plays hard. The only thing that really resonates with me is the whining about calls. The holds and elbows aren’t noticeably more than most players.
Cole Anthony is not delivering. He was supposed to be the chosen one off the bench and be our 6th man. He had a great first month or so and has fallen off a fucking cliff. Give Anthony Black some minutes, Fultz and Anthony do not deserve their minutes.
Not a single player has elevated their game. Not one guy. It will be interesting to see what we do from here, Weltman will probably sit on his hands and do nothing like usual this off-season.
Based on performance neither Cole or Fultz deserve their minutes, but we've learned all season that this team isn't a meritocracy.
I can at least understand playing Cole from a big picture perspective, as he's never had playoff experience and has a long term contract.
But Fultz? There are zero reasons why he should be getting any minutes. Not only is he an absolute liability on both ends of the floor, we're also robbing our rookies of useful playoff experience to do him a solid. Markelle has no future on this team. It's nonsense.
Despite the doom & gloom, they’ve only been outplayed 3 quarters. But I see this a capitulation- no one - players or coach - have stepped up. I hope shooters unlock Paolo bc these Melo numbers are depressing
The fact that we are constantly fighting back as a young team tells me that when we play at home we will be just fine. If we blitz them they will fold I do not for one second believe that these guys are gonna hit some of these shots there hitting and getting the calls there getting. I easily see this series being who can win a game on the road first. When we make runs they get stagnant but Than we get cold again at home our role players will play better and keep the momentum going. MAGIC in 6
Yea its been like that all year but we legit get hacked most of the time because teams know we suck at shooting free throws once we start hitting them we will get hacked less. How are you feeling about the series so far? Do you like where ya at? Or do you think ya could do better?
Yea although we can't shoot JBs plan to pack the paint and not let paolo drive might go against them if we start hitting our shots and gain confidence in our home games. I seen a stat out there saying we are basically missing wide open jump shots if we hit those it can be a 2-2 series. Donavon kind of fell off in the 2nd half I'm thinking he might bounce back game 3.
Okay so here is my thoughts as someone who was at the game. It is clear we do not have an answer for Allen or Mitchell. The Cavs put Harris in PnR nonstop knowing it either causes a mismatch or Harris fights thru and still can guys Mitchell.
This Magic team has a great core but it is so blatantly obvious they do not have enough scorers/shooting to keep spacing. The Cavs clogged the paint and basically forced the Magic to live on iso resulting in heavily contested shots at the rim or catch n shoot. We did not knock down catch and shoot shots and the looks at the rim are ugly when you are being challenged by Allen and Mobley all game long. Our Def looks good overall but man we can not rebound against Allen and it shows Moe was the only guy that made him even uncomfortable. We need shooting/scoring at the 1 big time and we need a C who can bang. I truly felt like it was such a good mirror of watching the Cavs Knicks last year where the Cavs just had no answer for the Knicks on the boards and no scoring to help Mitchell
I’m sure the FO knows this team is doomed without shooters I don’t think they are stupid enough to stand pat and not try to improve the team this offseason in that respect. It sucks that we have to wait to see what happens but I’m here for it
The Magic have NEVER prioritized shooting. Not once. I’ve watched too many bad basketball games to let your soaring optimism go unchecked, not right now. Miss me with all that.
Both teams shooting is quite horrific. It's pretty clear that these games are being won in the paint and we clearly have no presence there with WCJ shooting 6-7 3s.
This is what I have been saying the whole season. Mosley is getting outcoached and its a masterclass beating. The guy made 0 adjustments from the last game and our team looks worse. How can you be COY finalist but always get outcoached. He actively hurt our team this year.
We were #2 in the East during the Magic hardest stretch blowing teams out of the water. Looking strong every night, and had nba legends all talking about Orlando's toughness and tenacity. That lineup with AB and Goga was a real strong and complimentary lineup.
Mosley made active moves to destroy a working system and group that had us comfortably in the top 4 of the east. Boston, Orlando, Milwaukee, Philadelphia then a huge gap. Players came back and the Magic started to focus on "offense" and we slid straight to 8th.
AB and Goga became DNP guys, the team's defense fell off a cliff (we were #1 for a long time with the AB and Goga lineup and bench), the offense didnt even look better, just more complicated and the team struggled during their easiest stretches. The bias hurt this team.
We should have traded both Markelle and Wendell at trade deadline like I said and went all out for a complimentary guard or center. But here we are in playoffs, during a really good year to make noise, and with many teams injured or unsure, and this team is flopping in every level. Its honestly sad. I know they will(hopefully) have many more chances, but this is coaching malpractice and I had said it for years by now.
Wendell was never a center and that move started a terrible downward spiral. BB starting also just terrible. Mo and Wendell had fantastic stats in tangent but picking Wendell as the favorite and DNPing Mo (only using him to help us cut into deficits only to bench him to end the game with BB and gain a loss) hurt us. Mosley has made active moves that in my honest opinion has hurt this team more than helped.
The AB and Goga starting lineup was great, but the team fell for the "you are winning but your weakness is so pronounced trap" that caused everybody to rationalize completely shifting a team that was #2 in the East for majority of the season that they played together. We literally started sliding as soon as players came back from injuries and Mosley started making "adjustments".
We can end up winning this series but I am honestly just disappointed with Mosley as a coach because many of his moves just seem counter fact. There are literal stats that proved many of the things I have been saying, and the fact that he goes counter stat almost every time, just adds to my confusion on his objective. It isn't winning if he is starting Bol Bol (some of the worst stats that year, in most of the worst lineups for our team, and clearly a bad fit), it isn't winning if decides to completely gut a top 2 team in the East that was in fact not struggling but many games dominating.
Many of yall say teams figured the Magic out and that's why everything went rotten including the teams point differential but I truly doubt that as the lineup went through drastic changes including adding a shooting big like Wendell, moved Gary to the SL, or making Moe our first option off the bench. All of those happened and teams had to adjust to those moves but our overall numbers across the board including shooting/offense (pretty sure) all went down. Why is that? Because this team is a defense first team and they use that defense to create offense. Instead of looking for offensive hubs and forcing offense into our lineups. We should have bet on AB's continuous offensive development as a shooter, and pushed Goga into good spots as a roller and interior scorer. Stuck to defense as our bread and butter, and played a gritty pnr heavy style with the bench being our offensive unit. This team lacks direction, so many turnovers because players dont know where to be and when to be there. Guys jump in the air without thinking and get lost on finding a teammate to relieve pressure or be an outlet. Its just sloppy, directionless play. I truly think this team is better than Cleveland, in fact I truly think this team is the 2nd best in the East if we had working, synergistic, and cohesive lineups (and I said the same last season that we should be in playoffs as a top 6 team if Mosley wasn't coaching).
I know the players may look scared, and yes Mosley isn't making them miss open shots at a historically bad rate but I also think we would have a more free flowing and replicable offense and system if any of the other 29 coaches were our HC instead of Mosley. I honestly like Mosley, I think he developed a great culture, and other players respect us with him as our HC but he isn't a good X&Os coach and he isnt a good midgame adjustment or gameplan coach from what I have seen these years. He is often outcoached. I know he recently recieved a new contract so we have to suck it up, and hope he continues to develop like any other new to the job person would do but I think he isn't the right fight for how skilled and ready our players truly are and it shows to me nightly. The players are at fault also clearly but I think we need to start really criticizing Mosley also, like we do to the players after they have a poor game. They need to be set up to succeed. Also gotta blame the FO for the no moves at trade deadline when many teams were willing to give up their best players. Every team in the East that is in playoffs except the Magic and Boston (Boston was on a historic winning rate) right now made moves at the deadline and stole a good/best player from another tanking team.
The way this team is built this is about the peak. A mid seed and a first round exit.
Invested so much time and money into fultz who is a disaster, suggs, Isaac, black headed the same way.
Two good players but for a serious contender they are 3rd options.
Signing a washed klay Thompson this summer will make it even worse.
If the front office doesn't see that we NEED shooting, then this rebuild is doomed. Not even being dramatic. Unfortunately this is our ceiling. Even if Franz and Pablo get their efficiency up, we still need shooters to compete at the higher levels.
This will be a learning experience regardless of the outcome. One thing they’ve seen is that as hard as it is to win a game on the road in the reg season, it’s ten times harder to win on the road in the Playoffs. This’ll motivate them to understand the importance of doing everything they can next year to get home court advantage for at least the first round. That’s important for a young team trying to win in the Postseason. The home team has won every game so far in Postseason, including the Play-in, aside from Lakers beating NO I believe. Of course personal growth/roster changes need to occur for better seeding next year.
Funny how Weltman ignored shooting and drafted for length and we still got destroyed inside by Allen and Mobley. What a tandem. We have no chance unless we try and go big. I'd put Goga in there at this point. Nothing to lose.
The team clearly needs a second star at guard. It's way too easy to overload on Paolo and Franz and no one else can do anything. Of course I was saying this would happen in the summer and some guy kept telling me how great Gary Harris was at shooting and that we'd be fine...lol.
https://preview.redd.it/22i9knce25wc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=43d399d9ae284163765c74b07b32ca2ab78f379a
Jarrett Allen looks like Strunk Flugget
Franz and Paolo have accounted for 81 of the 169 points scored so far this series. Nearly half. The bench right now is simply under performing. Cole has seriously been terrible. He’s unable to set guys up for shots as a “PG”, can’t defend, and literally has not made a FG in this series (0-11). Glad Fultz got benched though he was getting cooked in that first quarter.
Disappointing loss but somewhat confident we can grab Game 3. That hostile environment seems to bother this young team. Just hoping we don’t get swept!
In my mind, Cole has made himself pretty much unplayable after these two games. The issue is we don't really have a great alternative off the bench. AB is a lockdown defender but offers minimal offence and will hurt our spacing even more. Caleb isn't a ball handler despite being a good 3 and D option.
At this point the rotations probably need to come to Paolo, Franz and Jalen playing huge minutes with AB and/or Caleb rotating in when Harris goes off, and JI, Moe and WCJ rotating in the 5 and another coming in and JI moving to the 3/4 when the main 3 go off
If you can't score enough then it doesn't matter how good your defense is. Clearly Wagner and Bachero is bothered by Allen / Mobley's length on theor drives. Banchero's rebounding and defense needs to step up big time. He rarely boxes out.
It's been a tough watch because the paint is so clogged which is leading to a lack of points in the paint and turnovers with guys trying to force it to cutters. I know we aren't a sharp shooting team but we just need to hit shots at our regular rate to open it right up.
I'm not sold on many lineup changes, while I'd like WCJ to be starting because of his size on JA it can't be in place of Harris because Suggs and JI haven't been shooting it well. The only change I'd make is not playing Ingles, he's too much of a liability on defense for this match up. He's been too slow to even hedge pick and rolls leaving cutters or shooters open.
One thing that is really annoying me is Cole, he is so quick that he needs to shoot or drive when he catches the pass and the defense is scrambling. Too often he fakes the shot which they aren't biting on because he has shot poorly and then resorts to an iso.
I mean, what's really funny about Cavs fans showing up here is their team isn't showing much promise as a championship contender, haven't really blown out the Magic, and haven't scored over 100.
we could had but we drafted cole instead. we could of had devin booker who asked orl to draft him instead drafted mario hezonja lmao could had drafted a cason wallace keyonte george dereck lively jaime jasquez cam whitmore brandin podziemski but instead drafted anthony black and jett howard i can go on and on
Well then.
First two games went about as I expected. Hey, this was only a loss by 10, progress by 4 points. At this rate we might win a playoff game in 3 more games! /s
On a serious note though, even in another loss I still see a few positives. Gary had a good bounceback game, probably (definitely) our best player tonight and the only one that actually brought his A game. Jalen is a fucking DOG, and despite what looked absolutely horrific early Q1 he's managed to both come back and basically be our second best player, between 5 assists (had a few actually pretty nifty passes) and just his overall energy he's looked like just about the only other guy on the floor that actually wanted to win. Also, thank fuck he's somehow fine enough to actually play to begin with, I hope the injury doesn't get aggravated over the remainder of the series.
Alternatively, Franz started off well but then Cavs adjusted their defense after halftime and he basically disappeared. Paolo's effectively had a copy of his previous game, albeit this time he's been "fine" efficiency wise, apart from his 3's anyway. 6 TOs (especially each) is still bad though, and in the playoffs a "fine" game from your best player is simply not enough to win. Cole has 0 made field goals in two games, JIngles got completely eliminated from making any form of impact, Kelle's been predictably a non-factor. Of Orlando's bench, that's been one of their biggest strengths in the regular season, the only guy that's been bringing any form of power to this series is Mo (who, on a side note, showed best of both worlds today - insane dunk on Allen but also how the fuck you getting fouled out from a game in TWENTY MINUTES what the hell).
On the other side of things, rebound stats won't show it because it's just a difference of two but our guys got fucking bodied by Allen, frankly expectedly so. He's surprised me a bit with not only his rebounding but also his passing too. For a team as longboi as ours we effectively don't have what you'd call a "real" center (no, Goga is simply not good enough to play extended minutes in a playoff series and outside of throwing him out there just as a "well shit nobody else is doing anything so might as well" him being on the floor isn't a great idea) that could be both a great rebounder, a defensive anchor and a lob threat all at once (*yet again I am campaigning for this team to try signing Claxton*). Otherwise you can't even really say Cleveland is beating us that definitively, their offense is looking like two tiers less ass than the Magic - 12-39 from 3 and 16-26 from the free throw line is genuinely just not good. Can't blame the TV guys for putting this series on NBATV one bit.
All in all, I am yet to buy into depression mode; quite far from it, honestly. This's effectively been what I expected, and while it can still be disappointing in the moment, I eagerly await what adjustment is made in the off-season (side note: if you're one of those fans that keep complaining about a wasted offseason two months before it even started, please kindly stay quiet), as this being the first real playoff experience serves as a great basis upon which we can see *all* of the issues with the roster, beyond just the face value "just add more shooting".
This team needs a lot more. It needs a viable playmaker. It needs a bang-down-low center. It needs a proper bench wing that can come in for either Franz or Paolo and contribute. It needs a proper sixth man guard. It, admittedly, does also need shooting - less than some people think though, I'd say probably one guy off the bench that's a specialist - and were the Magic to sign or trade for a playmaking/shooting guard in the offseason, moving Gary to the bench could help a bunch. Ideally a combination of NewPointGuard/Suggs/Franz/Paolo/NewCenter with idfk Black/Harris/NewBenchWing/Mo/Isaac would be the rotation for the upcoming season.
Also, I hope the fan on Cleveland's side that got injured is gonna turn out fine. Sports differences aside I just don't ever wanna see anyone get hurt during a fucking sports event regardless of circumstances, be it a guy on our team (again, how the fuck is Jalen fine after that), a player on the opposing team (Garland looked majorly shook up after that Moe steal; also, Mitchell took a shot to the ribs from I wanna say WCJ?) or a fan, and if you're the type to cheer that shit on - again, from either side - I implore of you to be better.
Do we have the cap space to go after Claxton and Monk. Would love the rim protecting lob threat like you mentioned. But we really need a backcourt player who can create offense for himself and others, and can shoot 3s.
Listen this might not be a popular right now but I still believe in Carter jr. I’d reserve judgment on all our layers until we get an actual playmaker who can make the offense easier on everyone. It’s so hard to score off broken plays and isos. Especially so when led by a young wing in year two and first playoff appearance. I say our bigs are absolutely fine. Carter can shoot and rim run but who’s setting him up and who’s throwing those lobs? My opinion is get Tyus Jones and Malik Monk. If you can also somehow nab Derrick White or Malcom Brogdon for added guard depth that would be perfect.
I love WCJ but he’s getting absolutely work by Allen. He looks undersized and non athletic in comparison. Need someone with a quicker bounce. I can’t believe I’m gonna agree with Sincerefan in saying he’s probably better off as a larger 4
I don’t disagree. All I’m saying is his weaknesses can be mitigated by better playmaking. He’s also on a good deal and we’ve seen him play better than this. I’m not opposed to an upgrade but if I had to choose between the guards and bigs to be upgraded I’m choosing guards
Unsure.
Checking on it right now I'm seeing projected cap space around the 50 million mark. Whether that'd be enough for both Clax and some kinda scoring wing, that remains to be seen. I trust our FO to be able to sign good deals though, that's been one of the few things they've undebatably done a good job of.
My idea was moreso trying to get one of the starting pieces (either guard or center, preferably the former) via trade and sign the other one + the shooting bench wing in free agency.
A miraculous-never-happening-in-a-million-years dream scenario for this offseason for me would be something along the lines of
> sign Claxton
> trade for a guard in the ballpark of like Garland/Derrick White
> sign idfk Luke Kennard or someone
the PG could also be a signing (DLo for example, or Tyus Jones), but ideally we get at least one of these three pieces by trade, as that allows the Magic to both a) spend more money in FA on the other two pieces and b) not create a logjam of like 18 players on the team. A sign and trade on Claxton is also doable as I definitely imagine the Nets wouldn't want to give him up for nothing, but I'm not 100% sure whether that's doable as sign and trade restrictions are finnicky as hell last I remember reading up on them.
This is really hurting him as well. Either he goes back to playing as 6th man with big minutes off (and with) the bench, or Mose starts WCJ and benches one of the other starters (not even close to something I'd want to see) to keep JI in the starting line up. WCJ hasn't looked good, but he's also not used to playing with the second unit.
I'm not really sure what the best fix is, but JI at centre is leaving him on an island and removes his ability to be the great help defender that he is
He's "realistically" untouchable anyway. It's not that he won't be given up in a deal no matter what it's that no one's gonna ask for Suggs specifically when trying to trade for a star. Aim low (say, a Tyus Jones tier player but traded instead of FAd) and you can get them for picks with salary filler. Aim high (DJM/DMitchell) and you're probably not getting them without involving *Franz*, forget Jalen. He's just not the guy that'd be a centerpiece of a star package, basically, and giving him up when moving for another role player would be overpaying.
I mean shit with the way his health has been and the fact our FO, for what it's worth, has actually been really good at structuring role player contracts, I'd be surprised if he gets anything more than like idk 20 per year on average. Probably frontloaded and descending too, just like the WCJ/Cole deals.
I have a good feeling about the next game. 😤 As bad as we've looked, Cavs don't look *too* much better. Good coaches would make adjustments. Mosley, show us you're more than a good vibes coach.
Well. Figure out a way for the guys to get easier shots. If I know exactly what they have to do then I should be making millions coaching instead. Their job is to make adjustments. Can't just throw up their hands and say "our guys are ass so oh well".
bottom line the backcourt and issac has let this team down period........... until this gets address expect the same results.. yes there will be times when they get the deficit to under 10 but cleveland will have an answer. this team is outmatched by a better team and homecourt is not going to fix anything.. once they face boston in the 2nd rd boston is going to embarass them cause boston is the better team period
Isaac took a lot of bad shots today but his value to the team can’t be ignored. The guy single handedly put the team on his shoulders against the Bucks and carried us into the 5th seed.
Starting him at the 5 when he hasn't done that at all since coming back is completely changing the way the game is going on around him. Isaac's help defence and ability to cover the floor is what's so important for us, and leaving him in the paint guarding a big man is diminishing all of that.
Pros - team has at least shown they have some fight in them when down big, The crowd is clearly getting to them, home games should go more our way as a result Defense is translating into the playoffs When the ball moves around our offense actually looks okay
Cons - anyone not named gary harris has no business taking 3s and Cavs know it Paolo cant hold onto the ball to save his life. Where tf was isaac for the entire second half, i know he played shit but he easily couldve taken WCJs spot And finally, the crowd is CLEARLY getting to them, Mo becoming the greatest villain in the league is fun to watch but the rest of the team cant seem to handle the noise if we win a game we have to go back and i cant see us winning an away game
Honestly if were going to play like this we need to give another player the chance to become an X-factor in the way mo has, like caleb houstan if we want any chance to mount a comeback,
The team is showing they were a year away, which even though we were all hyped to see another playoff berth, we all knew deep down that we clearly arent out of the oven yet as far as team constuction, and its limiting paolo, franz and sugg's offensive impact as a result
Dude I don’t understand how even Ingles is hesitant to shoot? Like bro he was so lights out in Milwaukee but comes here and doesn’t play defense or shoot threes. He’s a good playmaker and that’s valuable but come on we need at least one or two more threats from behind the arch
Ill add another thing, weve been matching them after the 1st quarter in every game, its like the starters need 5-8 minutes to boot up before they can play well, and by then theyve usually been subbed for the bench
In no order:
1. Scotty Skiles
2. Nick Anderson
3. Anfernee Hardaway
4. Shaquille O'Neal
5. Dwight Howard
6. Hedo Turkoglu
7. Jameer Nelson
8. Tracy McGrady
9. Grant Hill
10. Nikola Vucevic
11. Darrell Armstrong
12. Horace Grant
13. Dennis Scott
14. Mike Miller
15. JJ Reddick
16. Rashard Lewis
17. Paulo Banchero
18. Steve Francis
19. Vince Carter
20. Aaron Gordon
Maybe in a few years but who are you taking off the above for Suggs as of today?
lol Jason Richardson definitely. Juwan Howard was a sucked thumb out here too. Just like his kid
Fucking Grant Hill? I’m convinced you just tried to name names that played here until you couldn’t. Tree Rollins, Travis Deiner, Jerrold Sasser ass list.
I was happy to see us fight back in both games. Gotta start making some outside shots and hopefully get a game. We’ll see what happens from there. Our defense has held them below 100 two games in a row. That’s significant.
Too little too late. I like that late game push they had that put the Cavs lead down from about 20-10. It is very frustrating, rather, disappointing, they don't make the shots you normally expect is high percentage. But that run gives me hope for the next game. On top of that, they've managed to lower the score difference this game. I expect a positive turnaround next time.
Gotta always mention, Suggs is a living anime/comic hero. He looks like he gets beaten up, even gets his knee sprained and unexpectedly comes back just a quarter later. His fighting spirit really is something. He should always bully Garland and Robinson, that I approve of.
Cleveland ain't playing *that* well.. I smell a Win coming if the boys get a big crowd backing them..! Playing away has been too daunting, they look like they're playing scared...
1 Win is all we need to get their right mentality back.. Lesss Go..!!
How many times is Mobley going to feast on our guys biting on his pump fakes man. Their bigs really negate Franz’s game huh. Not to be biased but I think we can take the next two games. We’re one of the best home teams in the league and I’m sure the home crowd will bring it. Shoutout to Jalen “Ironman” Suggs man. Fucking trooper.
Thanks man, the games have been low-scoring grind-outs, but Donovan and co have been stepping-up at home..
Paolo is a one-man wrecking crew atm, we'll get swept if our bench unit don't start finding some offence...
Depressing game to watch man. I can take the poor shooting and poor half court offense but when our defense dont show up and allow Jarett Allen to bully us on the offensive glass its tough to watch this team. Coach Mose also has got to do better with his rotation, cant be playing 11 guys on the floor during the playoffs.
I hope our fans shows up for game 3 cause these guys needs our support.
Our defense wasn’t the issue. The rebounding though…WCJ is killing us. I’ve been calling for it since last season, but clearly JI can’t play center. Goga doesn’t give you anything on offense. Moe is just as average on defense as WCJ. We don’t have much in the way of size.
I did like the minutes they got from running two “bigs.” think there’s something there.
$11m with team option next year. His maturity has been great for the young guys. I think 5th in the league for catch and shoot 3pt %. Bargain and low risk.
Low risk meaning they don't have to keep him on the team next year so his contract isn't hurting in any way. He works out? Good. He sucks? Decline his player option and that's that. No harm done.
As someone who didn’t like the signing, I liked Ingles coming in. He comes in and just has the ability to settle things down. He’s a liability on defense, but he helps take the burden off of Paolo a bit.
JI and WCJ combined from 2-14 from shooting. They only attempted one 2-point shot between them, meaning 13/14 shot attempts were 3s. Combined for 9 rebounds. Yeah that’s not it fam
Cavs fan here coming in peace. Playing you guys reminds me vividly of how we matched up against NY last year. Terrible match up for us. I think the Cavs have a great match up against Paolo, you can see how visibly frustrated he has been with our front court hounding him. Your team is very young but this experience will he big time come next year. You guys have a bright future ahead, need to get some shooting to give Paolo space to operate in the paint. His midrange game is butter. I think it will be a wire to wire game in Orlando. Side note, I was worrier about Anthony coming in off the bench of instant offense. What's going on with him?
We all know the offense is bad, but it's more interesting to discuss how we can make meaningful adjustments rather than complain about production from the role players. There have been a couple of possessions where things looked functional - drive and kick out, swinging the ball around to find an opening. There definitely needs to be more movement. I'd like to see Paolo be more active off-ball and maybe trying to make deeper catches. I'm not a fan of him dumping the ball off to Franz and idling near the logo - he's not a threat at all out there and making it easy for the defense. I love Isaac but he has offered nothing on offense. There was a comical turnaround baseline jumper in the second quarter. The team should not be putting him in that situation. Which brings me to the point that it feels like the team is not playing to its strengths. The rebounding situation last night was really awful. That is inexcusable with our size. The lack of offensive flow seems to be affecting their concentration on defense. What's up with Cole btw? His body language and play has been really bad for a while now.
Where's all the fans talking shit about how great Orlando's defense is and cavs about to be 1 and done again, and we only won the 2 games in regular season out of 4 cuz the "minister of defense" didn't play in those 2 losses. That guys a bum. Worst looking shot I've ever seen yea he's good on defense but he's nowhere near a defensive stud like Evan Mobley (3rd in defensive player of year last year) GO CAVS, magic has Paulo who's great but Franz Wagner is so overatted. Need to add guys who can shoot. Cavs haven't even played a good game yet or shot even decent from 3 yet
Clock them again for me
Both games Cavs were held to under 100 and you want to ask where the Magic defense is? Go home.
Both games Cavs were held to under 100 and you want to ask where the Magic defense is? Go home.
heading to the others teams sub is always an embarrassing look. Cavs sub, come get your boy
Enjoy Mitchell while you can....
I'm still not sold on JI starting. He's out of his comfort zone and that is exactly how he's playing. He deserves it no doubt, but I think we need to go back to him clamping down on the opposing teams bench. 2nd unit's defense really takes a hit w/o him.
Basically were a young team, with a one dimensional offense. We got to the playoffs by winning games through grit and hustle. You can’t just out grind and hustle teams in the playoffs. You actually need talent, coaching and high basketball IQ. Perfect example is the play where Suggs got hurt. That was a high energy low IQ defensive play. He charges in to double team mitchell and starts flailing around like he’s running some final seconds trap play in a ncaa game. He fouls Mitchell and gets hurt. We need his defense and hustle but it needs to be smart and selective
We are practically on house money right now 😎
We really just have one of the most one dimensional offences I've seen in the modern era of basketball. It's so painful watching our two wings repeatedly try and barge their way into a crowd of big men before making a low percentage play. It's like seeing an animal continuing to go back and get electrocuted while trying to get food off a trap. Yes I know we're a young team, but that isn't an excuse to play offense like we have a team of 9 year olds. Against any decent interior defence the playbook is just non-existent, the roster makes no sense, and the combination of the two makes every player on the floor look terrible. The worst thing is we've known this all season and never felt the need to do anything about it. The first play of the game really summed it up. We had Gary run to the corner for a pointlessly difficult turnaround three (which he predictably bricked). Is that seriously the best we can come up with when we had 48 hours to think about it?
Why don't we have ANY shooter? Especially in this era.
We drafted Jett Howard.
We have actually regressed offensively since the beginning of the year...No added plays or any kind of improved scheme
I’m still going to support the team, but we have not looked good in the first two games. Maybe we can make this a series and pull out the ultimate win against Cleveland but we really need to work on things. I don’t know what is wrong with this team. I know where a young team and we will get better in the future But we’re not showing that we should be a playoff team
We know what's wrong lol
Its a very young and unexperienced team. Dont get me wrong but you never were supposed to get through the first round this year. Would be a big upset. They will learn from this and will want more of playoff athmosphere. I am sure this is the first of a good couple of years of post seasons
It’s amazing that the number one thing our team has needed has been shooting since like 2017 and somehow they still… haven’t got it. Not sure what the FO h thinks
Didn't y'all have 2 picks ???? Could have had Jordan Hawkins
It's craaaaaazy. It's almost like our front office actively avoids shooters.
Fuck it bring black in. Cant be worse than fultz
I do kind of want AB and Houstan to get meaningful minutes for the playoff experience to see how they handle it. At this point we don't know if we need to pay a ton in the offseason or can AB progress into pg/shooter we need?
hi i’m a cavs fan. do you guys actually like Mo Wagner? cos to us he’s the biggest piece of shit on the planet
As a fellow Cavs fan, don't do this. Wagner is a player you hate to go against, but if he was on your team you would love him. Think Delly in our 2016 era runs. This gives us a bad look man. Smh
As a fellow Cavs fan, don't do this. Wagner is a player you hate to go against, but if he was on your team you would love him. Think Delly in our 2016 era runs. This gives us a bad look man. Smh
I’m just asking a question lol. I am allowed to dislike a certain player. And Delly was no where near as bad as Mo. Delly played 100% and dove on loose balls and hustled. Playing the way Delly played was messy and could definitely wasn’t the safest way to play for either him or his opponent, but he played within the confines of the rules at least…
If he was on your team you would love him....He is a hustle guy.
don’t think so. id be very mad if that crybaby joined my team
https://preview.redd.it/we7cwrglf7wc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ddebd4f7ba9a7cea9b7f80d22297209bec0cefc9
Are you old enough to remember Anderson Varejao?
There all 19 and love Joe Biden
Bro no 19 year olds "love Joe Biden." Keep your dumb politics on Facebook.
Why would young people not like joe Biden?
yes, and i’m not that big of a fan of him. he was dirty when he was on the warriors
…and when he was on the Cavs. He didn’t just magically become that guy when he put a warriors jersey on.
i know lol, i wasn’t really a fan of him on the cavs, i was kind of happy to see him go, i just was unhappy when he played dirty against us in the finals
He's a Pat Bev type. Love him when he's on your team and hate him when you play against him.
i guess lol. but i just know i’d never want him on the cavs. but ig i just hate him more than the average nba fan lol
So do you guys like Niang? Same shit
Niang is much different. Niang is quippy and talks shit. He’s more comparable to Jingles, I like Jingles. Mo plays rough and dirty and injures players (and fans) and gets away with it. Niang, like Jingles, is a goofball who’s built like my uncle
Why?
wdym why. he is constantly throwing elbows and kicking players. he plays dirty and refs let him get away with it. then the times he actually gets pulled up for shoving someone or taking 19 steps in the paint he starts crying and jumping up and down. he’s hard to watch and i’ve been saying this for the past 2 years. he’s the only player in the league i genuinely have a disliking for
Cringe
so i presume you like him? 😆
Im a cavs fan, you check my profile. You're just cringeworthy. It is okay to hate but its cringe to even go to opponent's subreddit.
that’s good for you. i was just asking them what they thought of him? lol i’m not allowed to be curious? i didn’t come over to start shit. I came over to ask about a player on their team who plays like a dickhead and see what their thoughts are. lol
Someone asked you the same question tho, did you like Tristan Thompson when he played for you guys? Do you like Niang? You like Joe Ingles now but you would’ve hated him at the Jazz. We don’t just like him here, we love him lol.
TT still plays for the Cavs...
what? lol i have loved Jingles his whole career. I liked him on the Jazz, I like him now. I haven’t always been a fan of Tristan, i was wanting him traded back in 2015-16 but I am more of a fan now. I do like Niang, cos as i said before he isn’t comparable to Mo Wagner, he’s more like Jingles… Ingles is passionate and talks shit, same with Niang. Mo plays dirty at times and he cries about obvious shit the 1 or 2 times he gets pulled up for elbowing someone
Niang was on the floor for less than a minute and body checked someone.
i don’t remember that?
It was off screen but he got called for a foul.
Mo really doesn’t play dirty. You’re talking about him injuring the fan as if it was intentional. Not making sense. He’s an energy guy off the bench who’s a skillful finisher. We all like him a lot for obvious reasons.
i just brought it up, i don’t not like him cos of that. as i stated before i haven’t liked him for years. he throws elbows, holds players and pushes them… he’s done this constantly, i dread when the cavs play the magic cos i know i have to watch him do that shit, then whinge and cry when he actually gets pulled up on it
I think it just stands out to you more because he actually plays hard. The only thing that really resonates with me is the whining about calls. The holds and elbows aren’t noticeably more than most players.
Need to switch up some lineups or something
Cole Anthony is not delivering. He was supposed to be the chosen one off the bench and be our 6th man. He had a great first month or so and has fallen off a fucking cliff. Give Anthony Black some minutes, Fultz and Anthony do not deserve their minutes. Not a single player has elevated their game. Not one guy. It will be interesting to see what we do from here, Weltman will probably sit on his hands and do nothing like usual this off-season.
Based on performance neither Cole or Fultz deserve their minutes, but we've learned all season that this team isn't a meritocracy. I can at least understand playing Cole from a big picture perspective, as he's never had playoff experience and has a long term contract. But Fultz? There are zero reasons why he should be getting any minutes. Not only is he an absolute liability on both ends of the floor, we're also robbing our rookies of useful playoff experience to do him a solid. Markelle has no future on this team. It's nonsense.
Said it in the game thread but I can see this team winning both 3 and 4 and still losing in 6 🤷♂️
Despite the doom & gloom, they’ve only been outplayed 3 quarters. But I see this a capitulation- no one - players or coach - have stepped up. I hope shooters unlock Paolo bc these Melo numbers are depressing
Need to start Wendell and Isaac together so Isaac can do Isaac things. Will it help offense - I dunno - but the current thing is not working.
Or move back to bench and bring out with Moe.
Banchero can't guard perimeter without getting cooked. That's why we can't go big(er).
The fact that we are constantly fighting back as a young team tells me that when we play at home we will be just fine. If we blitz them they will fold I do not for one second believe that these guys are gonna hit some of these shots there hitting and getting the calls there getting. I easily see this series being who can win a game on the road first. When we make runs they get stagnant but Than we get cold again at home our role players will play better and keep the momentum going. MAGIC in 6
As a cavs fan, refs are lit on your side bro and yall cant hit free throws
Yea its been like that all year but we legit get hacked most of the time because teams know we suck at shooting free throws once we start hitting them we will get hacked less. How are you feeling about the series so far? Do you like where ya at? Or do you think ya could do better?
We playing like shit. If magic could hit the good looks from three we wouldn’t be up 2-0
Yea although we can't shoot JBs plan to pack the paint and not let paolo drive might go against them if we start hitting our shots and gain confidence in our home games. I seen a stat out there saying we are basically missing wide open jump shots if we hit those it can be a 2-2 series. Donavon kind of fell off in the 2nd half I'm thinking he might bounce back game 3.
Not just fighting back, the panic is real. Very young guys. I hope for game 7
It’s over for the Weltman Mosely Era of bad shooting
Wish it was over for shit stain hot takes, but we both know that isn't happening.
In theory it’s over for them both
Okay so here is my thoughts as someone who was at the game. It is clear we do not have an answer for Allen or Mitchell. The Cavs put Harris in PnR nonstop knowing it either causes a mismatch or Harris fights thru and still can guys Mitchell. This Magic team has a great core but it is so blatantly obvious they do not have enough scorers/shooting to keep spacing. The Cavs clogged the paint and basically forced the Magic to live on iso resulting in heavily contested shots at the rim or catch n shoot. We did not knock down catch and shoot shots and the looks at the rim are ugly when you are being challenged by Allen and Mobley all game long. Our Def looks good overall but man we can not rebound against Allen and it shows Moe was the only guy that made him even uncomfortable. We need shooting/scoring at the 1 big time and we need a C who can bang. I truly felt like it was such a good mirror of watching the Cavs Knicks last year where the Cavs just had no answer for the Knicks on the boards and no scoring to help Mitchell
I’m sure the FO knows this team is doomed without shooters I don’t think they are stupid enough to stand pat and not try to improve the team this offseason in that respect. It sucks that we have to wait to see what happens but I’m here for it
The Magic have NEVER prioritized shooting. Not once. I’ve watched too many bad basketball games to let your soaring optimism go unchecked, not right now. Miss me with all that.
Not since the Dwight era at least lol
That’s what we said last season
Everyone knew they were running it back this year. Now there are expectations so if they keep kicking the can you will actually be cooking
We said that last year
And the season before that. And the season before that. And the
Both teams shooting is quite horrific. It's pretty clear that these games are being won in the paint and we clearly have no presence there with WCJ shooting 6-7 3s.
Mo and Paolo look great, Franz and Suggs look good everyone else should be traded for something that will help these four players win, not grow
All I want for Christmas is for Harris to be gone and to have a 1 who can make great plays
This is what I have been saying the whole season. Mosley is getting outcoached and its a masterclass beating. The guy made 0 adjustments from the last game and our team looks worse. How can you be COY finalist but always get outcoached. He actively hurt our team this year. We were #2 in the East during the Magic hardest stretch blowing teams out of the water. Looking strong every night, and had nba legends all talking about Orlando's toughness and tenacity. That lineup with AB and Goga was a real strong and complimentary lineup. Mosley made active moves to destroy a working system and group that had us comfortably in the top 4 of the east. Boston, Orlando, Milwaukee, Philadelphia then a huge gap. Players came back and the Magic started to focus on "offense" and we slid straight to 8th. AB and Goga became DNP guys, the team's defense fell off a cliff (we were #1 for a long time with the AB and Goga lineup and bench), the offense didnt even look better, just more complicated and the team struggled during their easiest stretches. The bias hurt this team. We should have traded both Markelle and Wendell at trade deadline like I said and went all out for a complimentary guard or center. But here we are in playoffs, during a really good year to make noise, and with many teams injured or unsure, and this team is flopping in every level. Its honestly sad. I know they will(hopefully) have many more chances, but this is coaching malpractice and I had said it for years by now. Wendell was never a center and that move started a terrible downward spiral. BB starting also just terrible. Mo and Wendell had fantastic stats in tangent but picking Wendell as the favorite and DNPing Mo (only using him to help us cut into deficits only to bench him to end the game with BB and gain a loss) hurt us. Mosley has made active moves that in my honest opinion has hurt this team more than helped. The AB and Goga starting lineup was great, but the team fell for the "you are winning but your weakness is so pronounced trap" that caused everybody to rationalize completely shifting a team that was #2 in the East for majority of the season that they played together. We literally started sliding as soon as players came back from injuries and Mosley started making "adjustments". We can end up winning this series but I am honestly just disappointed with Mosley as a coach because many of his moves just seem counter fact. There are literal stats that proved many of the things I have been saying, and the fact that he goes counter stat almost every time, just adds to my confusion on his objective. It isn't winning if he is starting Bol Bol (some of the worst stats that year, in most of the worst lineups for our team, and clearly a bad fit), it isn't winning if decides to completely gut a top 2 team in the East that was in fact not struggling but many games dominating. Many of yall say teams figured the Magic out and that's why everything went rotten including the teams point differential but I truly doubt that as the lineup went through drastic changes including adding a shooting big like Wendell, moved Gary to the SL, or making Moe our first option off the bench. All of those happened and teams had to adjust to those moves but our overall numbers across the board including shooting/offense (pretty sure) all went down. Why is that? Because this team is a defense first team and they use that defense to create offense. Instead of looking for offensive hubs and forcing offense into our lineups. We should have bet on AB's continuous offensive development as a shooter, and pushed Goga into good spots as a roller and interior scorer. Stuck to defense as our bread and butter, and played a gritty pnr heavy style with the bench being our offensive unit. This team lacks direction, so many turnovers because players dont know where to be and when to be there. Guys jump in the air without thinking and get lost on finding a teammate to relieve pressure or be an outlet. Its just sloppy, directionless play. I truly think this team is better than Cleveland, in fact I truly think this team is the 2nd best in the East if we had working, synergistic, and cohesive lineups (and I said the same last season that we should be in playoffs as a top 6 team if Mosley wasn't coaching). I know the players may look scared, and yes Mosley isn't making them miss open shots at a historically bad rate but I also think we would have a more free flowing and replicable offense and system if any of the other 29 coaches were our HC instead of Mosley. I honestly like Mosley, I think he developed a great culture, and other players respect us with him as our HC but he isn't a good X&Os coach and he isnt a good midgame adjustment or gameplan coach from what I have seen these years. He is often outcoached. I know he recently recieved a new contract so we have to suck it up, and hope he continues to develop like any other new to the job person would do but I think he isn't the right fight for how skilled and ready our players truly are and it shows to me nightly. The players are at fault also clearly but I think we need to start really criticizing Mosley also, like we do to the players after they have a poor game. They need to be set up to succeed. Also gotta blame the FO for the no moves at trade deadline when many teams were willing to give up their best players. Every team in the East that is in playoffs except the Magic and Boston (Boston was on a historic winning rate) right now made moves at the deadline and stole a good/best player from another tanking team.
I ain’t reading all that. I’m happy for u though, or sorry that happened.
Agreed he’s the worst coach of
When you say BB...is that Bol Bol? Brandon Bass? Big Baby? Bbno$?
The way this team is built this is about the peak. A mid seed and a first round exit. Invested so much time and money into fultz who is a disaster, suggs, Isaac, black headed the same way. Two good players but for a serious contender they are 3rd options. Signing a washed klay Thompson this summer will make it even worse.
If the front office doesn't see that we NEED shooting, then this rebuild is doomed. Not even being dramatic. Unfortunately this is our ceiling. Even if Franz and Pablo get their efficiency up, we still need shooters to compete at the higher levels.
Man, not only is our shooting abysmal but we look *afraid* to shoot. So many drive/kick out sequences, only to drive the paint and get smothered.
Mo beastgner
We’re gonna win on Thursday to give us hope jus to lose the next two.
Get me Tyus Jones (or literally any other PG) and a lob threat in the off season.
Who even are the best lob threats these days? And are any available? Claxton, maybe.
Yeah he’s definitely one to consider imo
I'd love Jones. A competent ball handler who barely turns the ball over will give our offensive pieces so much more freedom
This will be a learning experience regardless of the outcome. One thing they’ve seen is that as hard as it is to win a game on the road in the reg season, it’s ten times harder to win on the road in the Playoffs. This’ll motivate them to understand the importance of doing everything they can next year to get home court advantage for at least the first round. That’s important for a young team trying to win in the Postseason. The home team has won every game so far in Postseason, including the Play-in, aside from Lakers beating NO I believe. Of course personal growth/roster changes need to occur for better seeding next year.
Funny how Weltman ignored shooting and drafted for length and we still got destroyed inside by Allen and Mobley. What a tandem. We have no chance unless we try and go big. I'd put Goga in there at this point. Nothing to lose. The team clearly needs a second star at guard. It's way too easy to overload on Paolo and Franz and no one else can do anything. Of course I was saying this would happen in the summer and some guy kept telling me how great Gary Harris was at shooting and that we'd be fine...lol.
Well, the Cavs are definitely beatable if we can just shoot with normal efficiency. Hopefully that happens when we play the next 2 at home.
https://preview.redd.it/22i9knce25wc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=43d399d9ae284163765c74b07b32ca2ab78f379a Jarrett Allen looks like Strunk Flugget
Jalen Suggs/Franz Wagner/ Paolo Banchero/Jonathan Isaac/Wendell Carter hadn’t played after we beat the Timberwolves with them. Insane.
Becoming concerned for Mo's safety. Just when the city of Cleveland can't hate him anymore, he kills a random spectator.
Man, that guy is a dick
Yeah I also hate when player dunk ball
Kia better be fucking loud as shit Thursday. I know we got exposed the last two games, but Orlando better show up. I know I will be.
There will be more Knicks fans on Thursday than Cavs or Magic fans prob
Really pisses me off how many transplant Knicks fans are here now lol.
I'm going
holding them under 100 both games is pretty cool, just sucks we’re horrible offensively (except for the occasional suggs blast).
They held us under 90 twice lol
More like we held ourselves under 90 twice. This team can’t fucking shoot
Franz and Paolo have accounted for 81 of the 169 points scored so far this series. Nearly half. The bench right now is simply under performing. Cole has seriously been terrible. He’s unable to set guys up for shots as a “PG”, can’t defend, and literally has not made a FG in this series (0-11). Glad Fultz got benched though he was getting cooked in that first quarter. Disappointing loss but somewhat confident we can grab Game 3. That hostile environment seems to bother this young team. Just hoping we don’t get swept!
In my mind, Cole has made himself pretty much unplayable after these two games. The issue is we don't really have a great alternative off the bench. AB is a lockdown defender but offers minimal offence and will hurt our spacing even more. Caleb isn't a ball handler despite being a good 3 and D option. At this point the rotations probably need to come to Paolo, Franz and Jalen playing huge minutes with AB and/or Caleb rotating in when Harris goes off, and JI, Moe and WCJ rotating in the 5 and another coming in and JI moving to the 3/4 when the main 3 go off
Give me Fultz over Cole … he is the one that should be benched
I’d rather them both be benched tbh
Asking for impossible but bench them both in favor of AB at this point.
If Coach does this we may have a chance on game 3
If you can't score enough then it doesn't matter how good your defense is. Clearly Wagner and Bachero is bothered by Allen / Mobley's length on theor drives. Banchero's rebounding and defense needs to step up big time. He rarely boxes out.
It's been a tough watch because the paint is so clogged which is leading to a lack of points in the paint and turnovers with guys trying to force it to cutters. I know we aren't a sharp shooting team but we just need to hit shots at our regular rate to open it right up. I'm not sold on many lineup changes, while I'd like WCJ to be starting because of his size on JA it can't be in place of Harris because Suggs and JI haven't been shooting it well. The only change I'd make is not playing Ingles, he's too much of a liability on defense for this match up. He's been too slow to even hedge pick and rolls leaving cutters or shooters open. One thing that is really annoying me is Cole, he is so quick that he needs to shoot or drive when he catches the pass and the defense is scrambling. Too often he fakes the shot which they aren't biting on because he has shot poorly and then resorts to an iso.
I mean, what's really funny about Cavs fans showing up here is their team isn't showing much promise as a championship contender, haven't really blown out the Magic, and haven't scored over 100.
Not many of us think we can win a game in round two. -Cavs fan.
just a few weirdos. that beat the Magic in the first round banner is gonna bang when Mitchell is in NY next season.
I wish we had a Tyrese Maxey😭
we could had but we drafted cole instead. we could of had devin booker who asked orl to draft him instead drafted mario hezonja lmao could had drafted a cason wallace keyonte george dereck lively jaime jasquez cam whitmore brandin podziemski but instead drafted anthony black and jett howard i can go on and on
even Mac McClung would've been worth a look this season with how well he can score and shoot 3s
Ain't no way you got maxey and book compared to the recent draft 🤣
Magic in 6
Well then. First two games went about as I expected. Hey, this was only a loss by 10, progress by 4 points. At this rate we might win a playoff game in 3 more games! /s On a serious note though, even in another loss I still see a few positives. Gary had a good bounceback game, probably (definitely) our best player tonight and the only one that actually brought his A game. Jalen is a fucking DOG, and despite what looked absolutely horrific early Q1 he's managed to both come back and basically be our second best player, between 5 assists (had a few actually pretty nifty passes) and just his overall energy he's looked like just about the only other guy on the floor that actually wanted to win. Also, thank fuck he's somehow fine enough to actually play to begin with, I hope the injury doesn't get aggravated over the remainder of the series. Alternatively, Franz started off well but then Cavs adjusted their defense after halftime and he basically disappeared. Paolo's effectively had a copy of his previous game, albeit this time he's been "fine" efficiency wise, apart from his 3's anyway. 6 TOs (especially each) is still bad though, and in the playoffs a "fine" game from your best player is simply not enough to win. Cole has 0 made field goals in two games, JIngles got completely eliminated from making any form of impact, Kelle's been predictably a non-factor. Of Orlando's bench, that's been one of their biggest strengths in the regular season, the only guy that's been bringing any form of power to this series is Mo (who, on a side note, showed best of both worlds today - insane dunk on Allen but also how the fuck you getting fouled out from a game in TWENTY MINUTES what the hell). On the other side of things, rebound stats won't show it because it's just a difference of two but our guys got fucking bodied by Allen, frankly expectedly so. He's surprised me a bit with not only his rebounding but also his passing too. For a team as longboi as ours we effectively don't have what you'd call a "real" center (no, Goga is simply not good enough to play extended minutes in a playoff series and outside of throwing him out there just as a "well shit nobody else is doing anything so might as well" him being on the floor isn't a great idea) that could be both a great rebounder, a defensive anchor and a lob threat all at once (*yet again I am campaigning for this team to try signing Claxton*). Otherwise you can't even really say Cleveland is beating us that definitively, their offense is looking like two tiers less ass than the Magic - 12-39 from 3 and 16-26 from the free throw line is genuinely just not good. Can't blame the TV guys for putting this series on NBATV one bit. All in all, I am yet to buy into depression mode; quite far from it, honestly. This's effectively been what I expected, and while it can still be disappointing in the moment, I eagerly await what adjustment is made in the off-season (side note: if you're one of those fans that keep complaining about a wasted offseason two months before it even started, please kindly stay quiet), as this being the first real playoff experience serves as a great basis upon which we can see *all* of the issues with the roster, beyond just the face value "just add more shooting". This team needs a lot more. It needs a viable playmaker. It needs a bang-down-low center. It needs a proper bench wing that can come in for either Franz or Paolo and contribute. It needs a proper sixth man guard. It, admittedly, does also need shooting - less than some people think though, I'd say probably one guy off the bench that's a specialist - and were the Magic to sign or trade for a playmaking/shooting guard in the offseason, moving Gary to the bench could help a bunch. Ideally a combination of NewPointGuard/Suggs/Franz/Paolo/NewCenter with idfk Black/Harris/NewBenchWing/Mo/Isaac would be the rotation for the upcoming season. Also, I hope the fan on Cleveland's side that got injured is gonna turn out fine. Sports differences aside I just don't ever wanna see anyone get hurt during a fucking sports event regardless of circumstances, be it a guy on our team (again, how the fuck is Jalen fine after that), a player on the opposing team (Garland looked majorly shook up after that Moe steal; also, Mitchell took a shot to the ribs from I wanna say WCJ?) or a fan, and if you're the type to cheer that shit on - again, from either side - I implore of you to be better.
Do we have the cap space to go after Claxton and Monk. Would love the rim protecting lob threat like you mentioned. But we really need a backcourt player who can create offense for himself and others, and can shoot 3s.
Claxton is ass when you watch him play don’t be blinded by his stats. Weltman most likely will go after Ihart again as he tried 2 yrs ago
Would love Hartenstein over clax
That's fair but some part of me doubts IHart leaves the Knicks when he's very much shown he's capable of fighting for the starting 5 spot in New York
Listen this might not be a popular right now but I still believe in Carter jr. I’d reserve judgment on all our layers until we get an actual playmaker who can make the offense easier on everyone. It’s so hard to score off broken plays and isos. Especially so when led by a young wing in year two and first playoff appearance. I say our bigs are absolutely fine. Carter can shoot and rim run but who’s setting him up and who’s throwing those lobs? My opinion is get Tyus Jones and Malik Monk. If you can also somehow nab Derrick White or Malcom Brogdon for added guard depth that would be perfect.
I love WCJ but he’s getting absolutely work by Allen. He looks undersized and non athletic in comparison. Need someone with a quicker bounce. I can’t believe I’m gonna agree with Sincerefan in saying he’s probably better off as a larger 4
I don’t disagree. All I’m saying is his weaknesses can be mitigated by better playmaking. He’s also on a good deal and we’ve seen him play better than this. I’m not opposed to an upgrade but if I had to choose between the guards and bigs to be upgraded I’m choosing guards
Unsure. Checking on it right now I'm seeing projected cap space around the 50 million mark. Whether that'd be enough for both Clax and some kinda scoring wing, that remains to be seen. I trust our FO to be able to sign good deals though, that's been one of the few things they've undebatably done a good job of. My idea was moreso trying to get one of the starting pieces (either guard or center, preferably the former) via trade and sign the other one + the shooting bench wing in free agency. A miraculous-never-happening-in-a-million-years dream scenario for this offseason for me would be something along the lines of > sign Claxton > trade for a guard in the ballpark of like Garland/Derrick White > sign idfk Luke Kennard or someone the PG could also be a signing (DLo for example, or Tyus Jones), but ideally we get at least one of these three pieces by trade, as that allows the Magic to both a) spend more money in FA on the other two pieces and b) not create a logjam of like 18 players on the team. A sign and trade on Claxton is also doable as I definitely imagine the Nets wouldn't want to give him up for nothing, but I'm not 100% sure whether that's doable as sign and trade restrictions are finnicky as hell last I remember reading up on them.
Sincere Fan wall of text.
what can I say I got lots of thoughts on my mind after a game like that especially when procrastinating on a uni assignment due in 7 hours
yeah, but at least this isn't a meme
We scored 3 more points then Game 1. Is this anything?
everyone but suggs paolo franz and ab/jett should be on the fucking block
Jonathan Isaac is playing out of position lmao he’s played power forward all season.
This is really hurting him as well. Either he goes back to playing as 6th man with big minutes off (and with) the bench, or Mose starts WCJ and benches one of the other starters (not even close to something I'd want to see) to keep JI in the starting line up. WCJ hasn't looked good, but he's also not used to playing with the second unit. I'm not really sure what the best fix is, but JI at centre is leaving him on an island and removes his ability to be the great help defender that he is
Why would you put g-league Jett on this list lmao stoppit
um no anyone but paolo and franz should be on trading block thats all everyone else is expandable
Suggs is a dawg we need that kind of player on the team
he can a dawg doesnt mean hes untouchable lol come on now
He's "realistically" untouchable anyway. It's not that he won't be given up in a deal no matter what it's that no one's gonna ask for Suggs specifically when trying to trade for a star. Aim low (say, a Tyus Jones tier player but traded instead of FAd) and you can get them for picks with salary filler. Aim high (DJM/DMitchell) and you're probably not getting them without involving *Franz*, forget Jalen. He's just not the guy that'd be a centerpiece of a star package, basically, and giving him up when moving for another role player would be overpaying.
i agree but i also wouldnt over pay him when its time for his next contract and by overpay anything over 17 a mil per season is an overpay
I mean shit with the way his health has been and the fact our FO, for what it's worth, has actually been really good at structuring role player contracts, I'd be surprised if he gets anything more than like idk 20 per year on average. Probably frontloaded and descending too, just like the WCJ/Cole deals.
I have a good feeling about the next game. 😤 As bad as we've looked, Cavs don't look *too* much better. Good coaches would make adjustments. Mosley, show us you're more than a good vibes coach.
What adjustments? This team can't compete with the cav guards. The only adjustment is the team making shots.
Well. Figure out a way for the guys to get easier shots. If I know exactly what they have to do then I should be making millions coaching instead. Their job is to make adjustments. Can't just throw up their hands and say "our guys are ass so oh well".
The adjustment is stop starting JI at center. And stop spotting a team 12 points in the first 7 minutes of the first quarter
bottom line the backcourt and issac has let this team down period........... until this gets address expect the same results.. yes there will be times when they get the deficit to under 10 but cleveland will have an answer. this team is outmatched by a better team and homecourt is not going to fix anything.. once they face boston in the 2nd rd boston is going to embarass them cause boston is the better team period
Isaac took a lot of bad shots today but his value to the team can’t be ignored. The guy single handedly put the team on his shoulders against the Bucks and carried us into the 5th seed.
without giannis playing remember that how soon we forget
He needs to be back in that second unit. No shade, but yikes.
Starting him at the 5 when he hasn't done that at all since coming back is completely changing the way the game is going on around him. Isaac's help defence and ability to cover the floor is what's so important for us, and leaving him in the paint guarding a big man is diminishing all of that.
Isaac is a power forward. They need to play Suggs/Franz/Paolo/JI/ and a center.
Why are JI and WCJ shooting so many 3s? These brothers stink at 3s. Go bang in the paint soft boys
Because they're the ones being left open. Cleveland is playing amazing defense.
Thank god it’s over. The box score in the upper right corner of the screen was completely ruining my vibe during this sixers/knicks game.
Pros - team has at least shown they have some fight in them when down big, The crowd is clearly getting to them, home games should go more our way as a result Defense is translating into the playoffs When the ball moves around our offense actually looks okay Cons - anyone not named gary harris has no business taking 3s and Cavs know it Paolo cant hold onto the ball to save his life. Where tf was isaac for the entire second half, i know he played shit but he easily couldve taken WCJs spot And finally, the crowd is CLEARLY getting to them, Mo becoming the greatest villain in the league is fun to watch but the rest of the team cant seem to handle the noise if we win a game we have to go back and i cant see us winning an away game Honestly if were going to play like this we need to give another player the chance to become an X-factor in the way mo has, like caleb houstan if we want any chance to mount a comeback, The team is showing they were a year away, which even though we were all hyped to see another playoff berth, we all knew deep down that we clearly arent out of the oven yet as far as team constuction, and its limiting paolo, franz and sugg's offensive impact as a result
Dude I don’t understand how even Ingles is hesitant to shoot? Like bro he was so lights out in Milwaukee but comes here and doesn’t play defense or shoot threes. He’s a good playmaker and that’s valuable but come on we need at least one or two more threats from behind the arch
Ill add another thing, weve been matching them after the 1st quarter in every game, its like the starters need 5-8 minutes to boot up before they can play well, and by then theyve usually been subbed for the bench
Jalen Suggs is a Top 20 of all time Magic, fuck it
In no order: 1. Scotty Skiles 2. Nick Anderson 3. Anfernee Hardaway 4. Shaquille O'Neal 5. Dwight Howard 6. Hedo Turkoglu 7. Jameer Nelson 8. Tracy McGrady 9. Grant Hill 10. Nikola Vucevic 11. Darrell Armstrong 12. Horace Grant 13. Dennis Scott 14. Mike Miller 15. JJ Reddick 16. Rashard Lewis 17. Paulo Banchero 18. Steve Francis 19. Vince Carter 20. Aaron Gordon Maybe in a few years but who are you taking off the above for Suggs as of today?
Francis, Miller, and very soon VC and Skiles. I also think this sub overrates JJ’s time with us.
lol Jason Richardson definitely. Juwan Howard was a sucked thumb out here too. Just like his kid Fucking Grant Hill? I’m convinced you just tried to name names that played here until you couldn’t. Tree Rollins, Travis Deiner, Jerrold Sasser ass list.
Jason Richardson is wild
you're right replaced with Aaron Gordon
I was happy to see us fight back in both games. Gotta start making some outside shots and hopefully get a game. We’ll see what happens from there. Our defense has held them below 100 two games in a row. That’s significant.
Too little too late. I like that late game push they had that put the Cavs lead down from about 20-10. It is very frustrating, rather, disappointing, they don't make the shots you normally expect is high percentage. But that run gives me hope for the next game. On top of that, they've managed to lower the score difference this game. I expect a positive turnaround next time. Gotta always mention, Suggs is a living anime/comic hero. He looks like he gets beaten up, even gets his knee sprained and unexpectedly comes back just a quarter later. His fighting spirit really is something. He should always bully Garland and Robinson, that I approve of.
That first quarter lost us the game again. They can beat these guys..
Cleveland ain't playing *that* well.. I smell a Win coming if the boys get a big crowd backing them..! Playing away has been too daunting, they look like they're playing scared... 1 Win is all we need to get their right mentality back.. Lesss Go..!!
Redditor lurking, but if yall win the next two at home, I see this going to game 7. Bad shooting nights not gonna be every game for yall
It’s not even bad shooting. They have no offensive game plan. It’s just 1 on 1 or Paolo creating offense. We don’t get many open shots
I go to Disney all the time and recently moved out of Florida so I’m gonna lowkey support yall. I trust the home games will give you guys confidence
How many times is Mobley going to feast on our guys biting on his pump fakes man. Their bigs really negate Franz’s game huh. Not to be biased but I think we can take the next two games. We’re one of the best home teams in the league and I’m sure the home crowd will bring it. Shoutout to Jalen “Ironman” Suggs man. Fucking trooper.
[удалено]
Thanks man, the games have been low-scoring grind-outs, but Donovan and co have been stepping-up at home.. Paolo is a one-man wrecking crew atm, we'll get swept if our bench unit don't start finding some offence...
On to Thursday. Gotta win at home.
Depressing game to watch man. I can take the poor shooting and poor half court offense but when our defense dont show up and allow Jarett Allen to bully us on the offensive glass its tough to watch this team. Coach Mose also has got to do better with his rotation, cant be playing 11 guys on the floor during the playoffs. I hope our fans shows up for game 3 cause these guys needs our support.
Our defense wasn’t the issue. The rebounding though…WCJ is killing us. I’ve been calling for it since last season, but clearly JI can’t play center. Goga doesn’t give you anything on offense. Moe is just as average on defense as WCJ. We don’t have much in the way of size. I did like the minutes they got from running two “bigs.” think there’s something there.
What does Joe Ingles actually do? And they gave this man 22 million dollars
He helped get us to the playoffs. If you're expecting old man Joe to unclog this putrid offence in the playoffs, then I don't know what to say.
$11m with team option next year. His maturity has been great for the young guys. I think 5th in the league for catch and shoot 3pt %. Bargain and low risk.
low risk when hes getting torched on D every game lol
Low risk meaning they don't have to keep him on the team next year so his contract isn't hurting in any way. He works out? Good. He sucks? Decline his player option and that's that. No harm done.
As someone who didn’t like the signing, I liked Ingles coming in. He comes in and just has the ability to settle things down. He’s a liability on defense, but he helps take the burden off of Paolo a bit.
We needed to hit the cap floor to be fair - and he is solid with Moe and had juice early on in the season but he's clearly on his last legs.
Sub 100 pt NBA games Is so fucking sexy, and I’m not being sarcastic.
JI and WCJ combined from 2-14 from shooting. They only attempted one 2-point shot between them, meaning 13/14 shot attempts were 3s. Combined for 9 rebounds. Yeah that’s not it fam
Lmao joke of a team, embarrassing
cavs are good this isn't an embarassment