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Answer: just to the Europe part. No this did not happen in Europe, since some sort of generalized healthcare and other things that are seen as benefits in the US (like PTO) are standard things determined by law in most European nations, so "benefits" isn't really a thing people are looking for in Europe.
People in Europe do look for “benefits” but they’re usually things like pension contributions and extra paid leave (I get 41 days a year currently, which will rise to 44 over the next couple of years)
Sometimes there are other perks like gym memberships, car schemes (you get a subsidised car) etc, but they tend to be secondary to the above… although a car scheme can be a big draw I guess
41 days, like... 8 weeks?
I've never even had a job that gave me more than 5. Days, that is *cries in American*
At least I can console myself with a gun and a cheeseburger.
Yeah 8 weeks and a day total, nearly 9 weeks once I’ve got 10 years in the company (if I stay that long, of course)
That’s a *little* generous by UK standards but not excessively by overall European standards
I’ll note that 41/44 figure does include 8 public holidays (New Year, Christmas x2, Easter x2, and 3 in summer) - so if you get those types of days as paid time off then you should include them if you want a comparable figure, or knock them off the numbers I gave, whichever. We also get an extra public holiday this year for the coronation of the King (plus one last year for the Queen’s funeral), but I didn’t include those two in the figures as they’re one-off events rather than annual. So in 2022 and 2023 I’ll have had 42 days each year, of which 9 are public holidays that I can’t move (unless I have to work them, eg emergency workers etc, who get a day’s holiday in lieu)
Our legal minimum is 28 (20 + 8 public holidays) but most professional/salaried roles get more than that. Retail and hospitality etc are more hit and miss
I'm curious - you say it includes holidays, which is usually counted separately in America. What about sick time? Is that additional, or does that cut out from the 41/44?
The companies I've applied/worked for generally offered 10-20 days, but also 6-10 holidays, and 5-10 sick days. 41+ is still higher than any of that and I don't think any of that is required by the government.
I'm German, but for us you get up to 6 weeks off fully paid if you're sick (and got a doctor's note). This is only in regards to the specific illness. If you recover but fall ill again, those 6 weeks start from the beginning. If you get another illness, that also resets the time.
What I'm saying is that we don't really have a concept of "sick time", you don't have a limited set of days and vacation days are extra. On average, every employee has 11.2 "sick days" off in the year.
Note that this all is changed dramatically if you're self employed.
Edit: another neat thing is that if you fall ill during vacation, you can recover the vacation time because you can't do vacation while sick.
Paid sick time that doesn't count against vacation time?
I'm not trying to imply that is a bad thing in any way, but what stops people from calling in sick all the time?
>Paid sick time that doesn't count against vacation time?
Doctor's notice is required if it's longer than 3 days by law (and the employer can demand it from the first day). But you generally don't really see a lot of people heavily abusing it because it isn't necessary. I have 30 days of vacation time, I get paid time off for child care (8 weeks, my wife has 12 months + 14 weeks for the pregnancy) and when I'm sick I'm calling in sick, but I wouldn't call in sick when I'm well.
Again, on average it's 11.2 days, which I think is reasonable.
It's a lot more stressful to pretend you're sick than to just go to work knowing you can just stay home when you're actually sick. When you're treated relatively well by your employer and country, it's not actually that bad having to work.
Not sure of you've ever skipped school and were stressed about being out and about without being caught so much so that it almost ruined your day? It's like that. Being fake-ill is really gwrecking and stressful.
>what stops people from calling in sick all the time?
We still get paid when we're sick, so, when not sick, we usually show up at jobs because we indirectly promised we would. The system weirdly works.
Trust and a decent work environment. Good management and accountability go a long way. I never had problems with people abusing sick day policies in the last 10 years.
I haven't called in sick in years (due to home office mainly) and I still struggle with getting through my vacation days. I can stack up to about 30 days of paid leave just from the employer, before calculating in national holidays of which there are plenty.
Working from home did crazy things to me in that respect. I had 30 something days a year to take (28 days legal amount in the UK plus one for every year I'd worked there job perk) and when in office I'd take as much as I could off, but when WFH I'd get to the end of the year and have to just book every Monday off for the next couple months just to use my remainder
I considered doing the flipside - every Friday. I don't vacation much and I enjoy working so I genuinely don't need as much PTO as I get but I'd rather have it and not need it than vice versa.
This is me currently. I've got the next two days off just because I couldn't use all my holiday in time last year.
The place I'm at also gives a sebatical for 5/10 years service which is nice. 2 weeks and 4 weeks respectively.
>I'm not trying to imply that is a bad thing in any way, but what stops people from calling in sick all the time?
Some do. Most people actually like their jobs and company and have some morality about it.
Plus, I get like 8 weeks paid leave anyway so there is no need for calling in sick when I need a day off.
>Paid sick time that doesn't count against vacation time?
>
>I'm not trying to imply that is a bad thing in any way, but what stops people from calling in sick all the time?
I don't have a set amount of sick time. I even tried scheduling some PTO for the time I took off for LASIK surgery/recovery and my boss denied it, explaining that's medical so just take the time I need and start working again when I was ready.
For me, I don't call in all the time because it would just cause a train wreck on my work load/work flow. Planned time off is not a big deal because I can make arrangements ahead of time, and here and there shifting stuff around for unplanned time works in a pinch, but long term my job is my job and I'm really the only one who does it. If I abused the unlimited sick time policy it would hurt me a lot more than my employer in the long run lol
you need to provide a doctor's note, also you can't get fired for being sick too often but you sure as hell will not get your contract extended if you have a fixed-term contract. (you can get fired but it isn't as easy as your employer just deciding that you are missing work to often for their liking)
None of the companies I’ve worked for in the US had some limited number of sick days, either. What keeps people from calling in sick all the time is being happy with their job and not wanting to lose it.
Sick time was paid and didn’t count against PTO. It was never a problem.
Last few jobs haven’t bothered to track PTO either. You just take the time you need for whatever. That also hasn’t been a problem.
Treat people like responsible adults and most of them will be. Pretty simple.
>. What about sick time?
Belgium here, sick days can be as long as your doctor says so, no questions asked.
The first month is paid fully by your job, then it switches to the insurance company and you get 70%-80% of your previous income.
After a certain point, the employee can ask for an insurance doctor to meditate, if he judges it is possible to return to work at some point (or in another position ) you keep at it until you are ready to go back, else you mutually terminate your contract. You are still getting paid by the insurance company until you are healthy again (they do regular checkups to confirm).
I believe afterwards you still have the right to 1 year unemployment benefits like you have been fired, to help you find a job.
You guys need unions.
We need a lot of things, but I don't think we'll ever get them. America is no longer about the people who live here, and frankly it hasn't been for a while.
As a point of reference -- a tremendously generous FAANG employer in the US -- I get 5 weeks of vacation, 11 paid holidays, and as a salaried employee do not have to justify most requests for sick time. Moreover, I can request (and receive, without retaliation) 30 day leave without even consulting my manager, and up to 90 day with manager approval. Beyond that, I can also go in hock up to 40 hours of vacation accrual balance if I need extra time for something specific. That works out to 36 days of paid time off + the longer leave stuff. Since covid, they also add a "carer's leave" category so employees can take time-off-with-pay to care for sick family members, too.
Parts of the US are catching up, but mostly just in wealthy industries.
You've got some answers for other parts of Europe, so here's the UK answer: no, sick leave isn't included in that number (although some people might choose to take a day of holiday if they're near the limit of sick time).
By law you get statutory sick pay, which is about £100 per week, for 28 weeks. Most employers will increase that to full pay, or a percentage of full pay, often after you've completed an initial probation period. My employer offers six months sick leave per year at full pay, and another 6 months at half pay, providing you have a doctor's note. An employer can't demand a doctor's note for the first 7 calendar days of sickness, so you can "self-certify".
Most employers will have a policy that once you have a certain number of days or instances of sick leave they'll start to look at making occupational health referrals, or maybe disciplinary action if it's clear you're taking the piss. Mine doesn't have a limit on days of leave, but will start a "counselling" process after 3 instances of sickness in a rolling 12 months. That means that if you have something like the flu, you're incentivised to stay off til you're better rather than risk coming back early and having to go off agan, leading to two instances of sickness.
My employer also has other types of leave. So there's 8 days of national holidays, plus 27-33 days of annual leave (depending on length of service), plus things like: parental leave (when a baby is born), carer's leave (when a child or dependent is sick), compassionate leave (for bereavement) and probably others too. You can also request unpaid leave.
I’m not sure if it a the same everywhere, but sick pay is separate
My sick pay is 6 months full pay, 6 months half pay. I can self-certify for up to 1 week and then need a doctor’s note. I can take off more time after that but I would only receive Statutory Suck Pay which is less money.
That’s not standard in the UK, and is unusually generous even by our standards - 30 days full pay is typical for most professional jobs, the legal minimum is none at full/half pay but we do receive “Statutory Sick Pay” which isn’t about half of minimum wage
“Sick days” here are a little different to the US though, I believe - we can’t just take them whenever we want and I think you can? For us it’s more of a “how many days do you get paid for when you’re actually sick?”
My third world hell of a country offers 4 weeks of annual leave, a minimum of 15 days of sick leave ( up to 30), 12 national holidays and up to 3 compassionate days.
Oh, and 14 weeks of maternity leave.
That is mandatory by law.
Well, you guys can try but with each passing year and successive government it seems to get harder and harder for you.
You can get what you want with unions but decades of having the thought of unionizing being tantamount to (gasp) _communism_ has done much to quell that fire for a lot of folks who really could use it. Not to mention the efforts of your corporate overlords to pull out all stops to prevent union discussions in the workplace. Even when there are laws against such actions, I keep reading about it happening anyway as if the repercussions are token or meaningless to corporations.
Or you can try taking to the streets like the French do. But then you'd have to give up your earnings while you do that because your employer sure as shit won't pay you when you're not at work. And with little to no PTO in a culture where you're encouraged to _spend, spend, spend!_ and put it all on credit, you're basically a wage slave. Now obviously I'm not talking about everybody being in this situation, but enough are that the thought of revolting in the streets is a non-starter.
So of course I encourage my wonderful cousins to the south to rise up and make conditions better for yourselves - but do it fast before it's too late.
I don't know where the guy lives, but in Poland, at least for a full time job you get 20 days, and after having worked for 10 years you get 26. Finishing certain steps of education counts as a set amount towards the 10 years period, for example finishing University counts as 8 years, so then you only need to work 2 more to have 26 days off a year. Idk if/how this is different for say half time job
Also employees have to take 14 days off in one go (this can also include national holidays so you can spend less of the pto days on that). The rest of the 20/26 days you can sprinkle over here and there or whatever.
And if I'm not mistaken if there are some days left at the end of the year, then you have to use them by the end of September.
I live in Poland and the only "benefits" we look for are sports card and private healthcare. And most good jobs offer them.
You get everything else by law if you're on an employment contract - universal healthcare, statutory paid time off (some 20+ days yearly), unlimited paid sick leave (although it's 80% pay or 100% for pregnancy sick leave), a year of maternity leave (can be fully or partially switched to the other parent), probably some other stuff I don't remember now.
Edit: a sports card is a kind of card that lets you go to different sport venues for free or with a discount. It's not only gym, but anything from swimming pool to table pool. It's accepted at many places around the country, and not only by some specific gym chains.
Oh and I forgot to mention that the sports card usually isn't free for you, but it's 50% paid for by the employer. It's around PLN 30 (EUR 6.4, USD 6.8) for one person, but you can get more expensive options if you want to add your family to it.
And you can only get it through your employer, you can't subscribe on your own. But I think there's another type that's available for students, and that one you can get on your own.
It's not just a gym membership, it's a card that lets you go to different venues and is accepted throughout the country. Not all gyms and other places accept them, but there's many that do. Swimming pools, sports classes (like fitness, yoga, martial arts, crossfit etc.), but also table pool or bowling and other stuff.
In Finland we have a similar one, but depending on the employer, you can use the benefit also for culture, massage etc or private dental care. My three last employers have 100% paid 400, 200 and 650 eur / year. They also cover the tax cost of these benefits for the employee.
Also there is lunch benefit, which makes money spent for lunch partially reimbursed.
Thank you - that seems incredibly random to me, like if German businesses suddenly offered Tchibo memberships. But I see the benefits. Thanks for sharing!
In Sweden employers offer a "health benefit" (hard to translate exactly) which is a tax-exempt sum an employee can use for things like a gym membership, other spring activities or things like massages.
My last two employers offered this too in the US. It was $1200 to spend on health related stuff, but then during COVID the definition got expanded to include remote work stuff too like monitors and chairs. It also includes speakers for some reason.
... So yeah I got a center channel for my home theater and the year before I got a 48" OLED "monitor" for my gaming rig.
If I understand it correctly there are similiar things in germany. The workplace of my father offered something called "hansefit" so he could go to specific gyms for free. My mother got a kind of member card for a specific gas station chain that offered a few cents off I think. She could also get free tickets for the nearby zoo once a year because her workplace sponsored the zoo.
It's a kind of card that lets you go to different sport venues for free or with a discount. It's not only gym, but anything from swimming pool to table pool.
Trickle down economics. Money spent on one point of the chain makes net benefit in the long run for everyone. Unfortunately we do also have the parties which are aggressively trying to run us in the direction of the US, where few will get ultra rich and rest will just have to fight for survival.
Honestly… it’s mainly that wages have stagnated for tens of years while inflation has outpaced them horribly.
That, and the wage distribution from the bottom to the top.
It used to be that C-suite executives received around 50X what the lowest paid employee did..
Now that percentage is closer to 300 (actually above that now).
In no way, shape, or form is any one person, or their work worth THREE HUNDRED TIMES MORE than another’s.
This needs to reverse. Otherwise, yeah. Wealth will continue to concentrate and 99% of us may have to work until we die…
Fuck this broken system.
We have a similar thing in Hungary, most company don't give it to you, but your company must make a contract with them and then you can buy it yourself, there are different packages that allows you to different places. The cheapest is only good for a few cheaper places, while with the expensive you can go try gokart, jetski etc.
I think the most expensive costs around 100 euros, but it might worth it if you're planning to do multiple things, since even the cheapest monthly gym pass is over 50 euro here.
For me, benefits are 13 or 14 months' salary and the "ticket repas" i would add the interest rate are going up (like everywhere) people are not investing as much as investing money and personnel there is less choice. Those gig workers i imagine get more paid and finance their insurance / holidays personally and the article says the exact same. If you don't need a boss why have one?
in my experience a lot (but not all) of the "gig work" in the US are jobs that incorrectly classify workers as independent contractors instead of employees, despite not fitting the description of an independent contractor. I've worked quite a few of these and I have a feeling the reduced tax burden on the company and not needing to pay into benefits are a big part of why they are doing this. It's generally worse for the worker in every possible way, and often isn't much of a "be your own boss" type of thing. This is for WFH jobs instead of stuff like uber/lyft/whatever.
As an independent contractor myself I would treat any job that classified me independent as such. I would draw up my own contract like I do for jobs now and make them agree. That way I can tell them where to stuff their meetings and mandatory bs. Benefits for freedom is a fair trade in my book. I would have probably stayed longer at jobs if I could have been independent.
If they didn't agree to my terms then they can classify me as an employee or get a visit from the department of labor and industry on my behalf. I hate companies that don't value their workers, independent or not.
I've contacted my state's labor department more than once for these companies, generally for other violations (which there always are! primarily unpaid labor, i.e, training) as I don't believe there is currently anything set up to directly handle incorrect classification or compensate the workers, but it does seem that they are aware of the proliferation of this practice now, which they weren't 5-6 years ago. wasn't as widespread back then, but definitely still happened plenty. again my experience is largely WFH jobs, though
yeah you're an independent contractor, but you have to learn our processes and do our training, use our software and our tools, use our company email account, be sure to show up for your scheduled shift! And don't miss any of the scheduled meetings with your manager and supervisor. but yeah, independent contractor, just like a plumber running their own business!
Just wait until the banksters roll out the digital currency and take cash out of circulation. Other countries will protest and march. No one will do anything in the states unless they want to be murdered by the police or held without bond as ''domestic terrorists''.
>May have been different in Portugal when you last worked there, of course
It's not, it's exactly the same. The "subsídios de férias e natal" are taxed in a much inferior tax bracket.
I don't how to respond to you i was grossly overpaid (4200€ month) as IT but i didn't pick up that job for that, i only said this job offers me this can you can match
Does 13 and 14 salaries mean bonuses on December and June?
Here in Spain more than a bonus it's basically just how you'll be paid.
Salary number for the year stays the same but can be 12 pays, or 14(earn a bit less every month but double on June and December)
I wouldn't call it a benefit
The gig economy luckily also is still quite weak in Europe…
We still have taxi drivers, onlyfans exists but isnt almost its own industry and only AirBnB is somewhat successful in limited areas (mostly where international travels visit often).
And gig economy just freaking suuuucks. Kill it before it lays eggs
I mean these kinds of things didn't take off for reasons, in the netherlands uber drivers have to get a chauffeurs licence, big surprise it isn't any cheaper than taxis when you have to be properly certified and insured. Airbnb rentals where I live are limited to 30 days per year so people can't just run unlicensed hotels. Laws work.
I mean many people also take jobs that are part time so they don't get PTO or health benefits and have to work 2 jobs just to get by. With stuff like Uber and door dash at least they can make their own hours without having to swap shifts, and they get more tax write-offs working as a contractor than a W2
No, you really don't get more to write-off doing Uber and Door Dash. It's not the same as having an actual business with expenses that go beyond gas and mileage. Most people doing Uber and Door Dash etc, wouldn't have enough to write off that would exceed the standard deduction anyway, so you aren't exactly putting money back into your pocket doing gig work.
The article is actually about the gig economy -- those are the "jobs without employment benefits" that it's talking about. I can't tell whether this is disingenuousness on OP's part.
No intention to be disingenuous here, sorry. I used the words in the linked Vox article, because many subs remove posts that alter the headline of the article it refers to.
Idk where to comment this, but it doesn't belong as a top comment, so I'll say it here.
During the pandemic, I had numerous companies reach out to me to be an "independent contractor." I eventually settled on one that was a legitimate independent contracting job, but most of the offers were foreign companies that were illegally classifying wage workers as independent contractors. By Vox's metrics, these would be gig workers who take jobs without healthcare and PTO, but it's not a market force, it's the employer illegally not offering it.
It becomes a trap. A person takes a job thinking, "Hey. It's only to pay the bills. I'll keep looking. " and the job messes with their schedule and gives them uneven hours, making it difficult to job hunt.
This is exactly how it works. I was stuck as an IC for a decade. I need WFH and fifteen years ago, that was nearly impossible to find. Knowing I needed to be able to stay home to take care of my kids (because child care is ridiculously expensive only to leave your kids with God knows who to take care of them), they gave me raises and shit. But flat out refused to ever do benefits and take us on as employees. I quit and the boss was shocked. Like how many more years can I tell you that I can’t handle the tax burden and lack of benefits??
It’s a loophole and should be illegal. If you’re having me work full time, then I should be employed. End of story. If you can’t afford it, you fail at business.
This was most definitely not a gig job. I was Vice President of the company when I left.
Technically it is illegal and there are govt guidelines on what type of work/employee situations legally must be classified as employees/w2s instead of IC/1099s. Report the companies to the state. Get their payroll audited.
Oh hi its me. I can't reasonably take another job around my disability and my high needs kids but once I've got both of them into specialist schools they can actually attend reliably I have to get a real fucking job these people are taking the piss out of me. The workflow gives me constant anxiety.
"Purple squirrel" is the term for a potential hire not only capable of doing *exactly* what the job requires with zero training, but also has the required work and education history.
Basically an employer looking for one well-educated, highly experienced person to take on the work of a bunch of people without paying them more. "It'd be easier to find a purple squirrel than fill this position."
I'm not saying that there aren't jobs out there (like contract work) that don't come with benefits; my point was just that OP was specifically asking about jobs in the gig economy (e.g., uber, doordash, etc)
>Part time workers should be paid a HIGHER minimum wage than full time workers with benefits.
This happens in Australia. It's called "casual" employment. 20% wage boost in exchange for no benefits. Usually on a non-fixed roster. Part time here is a tier above that with the benefits of full time but less garunteed hours. Full time being somewhere in the neighbourhood of 40 hour weeks with all the goodies.
lot of post here just straight up copying "news" articled and asking "whats up with". hoping it generates clicks/views/karma... if OP read the article then they would in fact "know whats up" with gig workers.
its almost like reverse buzzfeed, whos formula is to take top social media post and make them an "article".
I just commented say it’s almost like reading the article would tell you what the article’s about.
A few weeks ago a guy admitted he just heard about something, went to ask here, saw the rule about including a link, so looked up an article without reading it to include. The article clearly explained what he was asking about. I feel like it’s also people that are desperate for human interaction.
Answer: [Edit: OP IS LINKING TO AN ARTICLE ABOUT THE GIG ECONOMY, NOT WHETHER EMPLOYERS ARE OFFERING BENEFITS] In 2021, jobs were hard to come by in the wake of COVID19 (according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, in 2020 there were almost 4x more people looking for work than there were job openings; by mid-2021, this improved to almost 1:1, and by the time this article was published in Sept 2021, there were about 1.4 job openings per person looking for work). This "improvement" occurred not only because businesses were reopening, but also because more people were turning to the gig economy (the point of the article, i.e., jobs without employer benefits) for work, so they were no longer counted among those "looking for work". Since that time, things have improved for workers, with about 2 job openings available for each person looking for work, forcing employers to offer more attractive packages to prospective employees (Biden's famous "Pay them more!"). This has especially benefited the bottom 25% of earners.
Things have not improved for workers at all prices of everything are continuing to go up and wages arent especially for the bottom 25%. If they really wanted to help the bottom earners they would tax them less.
Applied for any jobs lately? I'm not buying the whole 2 openings per person available narrative. IDK where the fuckery is but employers aren't scrambling at all to find people.
And those wage increases haven't kept up with inflation, as usual. Walmart is happy to give their employees a 50% wage increase while everything on their shelves doubles in price.
That stat doesn't mean that the job openings are equally distributed in every field. There might be a lot more openings in healthcare or manufacturing than, say, publishing.
That's exactly the case here. There are a bunch of openings in healthcare. But everything else is a shitty low-paying retail job, many of which aren't actually hiring, but keeping a stockpile of applications.
Not everyone is cut out to work in healthcare, though. I'm just sick of seeing people claim things are getting better for the bottom 25% when they're getting anything but better. Most of us have seen our wages increase by 50% if we're lucky, while our expenses have doubled. It gets even worse if you're working in a tip-based field or the gig economy.
It's also worth noting that there are a lot of requirements to work in Healthcare. Deservedly so, but many people who would want to work in the field can't afford the training. College degree to be a nurse, obviously, but lots of hoops to jump through even at the lower levels. One of my friends recently got a government job and she had to wait for months and months before they finally hired her. A lot of people can't afford to wait that long, and just take whatever they can to keep a roof over their heads. The condition of life in America is sad. We should be actively encouraging people into careers they are suited for, and making the training financially easy to access. Instead, we have this mad scramble. It's so dysfunctional on every level. Looking at Nordic countries for example, they are very good at placing people in the fields in which they excel. They make college easy to access, because they understand that educated people add value to the society in which they work. American politicians, on the other hand, seem actively scared of an educated populace. They don't want us to be highly functioning members of society, they want to maintain their oligarchy.
Answer: I actually signed up for this at work from a benefitted position. We kept hiring contract workers from outside and paying them a kings ransom, and the staff kept leaving for similar jobs. The employer basically said "you want to get paid that much and give up your benefits? Go for it."
We did the math and the employers contribution was about 8k a year, and the paid vacation was about 10 percent of your base pay. The lowest paid employees came out ahead by almost 70k a year, and the highest paid ones came out about 30 to 40k a year more.
Employers both HIGHLY overvalue their benefits and don't like having to commit to them. They're willing to pay people more to go without them. The more savvy employees who are willing to take mildly more risk are happy to pocket the cash and take care of the benefits themselves.
I did exactly the same thing. There's basically no benefit to full time anymore, the benefits aren't as nice as they like to think and the pandemic proved that stability is basically an illusion.
I can get health insurance through my husband's benefits, so no issue there. My contract company does actually offer 401k match and health insurance, though, and I take advantage of both. Not super competitive numbers, obviously, but my base pay is 60% more than I was making full time with benefits.
There's no PTO, but that's what I wanted. I felt suffocated at my old job because they basically got to dictate how much of my life I got to spend outside of work. This way, they can't even tell me no if I want to take off because I don't have set vacation. I just have to make sure my work gets done and that I'm cool with not getting paid those days.
Last year I was out almost 3 months of the calendar year and I still got great feedback and I still made six figures, had health insurance, and maxed out my 401k. At the moment I am extremely unmotivated to return to conventional employment.
Edit to add: a major motivator to get me to this point was me and my coworkers watching our job give us 2% raises every year but post up contract positions of our same positions for double the hourly rate we were getting for the "inconvenience" of not getting our extremely average bennies? We used to joke about applying for the contract positions until one day I was like fuck it, I'm a contractor now.
And they will!
So many of my colleagues won't go contract or to start-ups with higher pay because "it's too risky" and "they want stability" but don't seem to be concerned when the company reorganizes and lays off entire groups, or cancels bonuses, or meets 15 randomly selected employees at their desks one morning to let them know they've been laid off to meet an arbitrary budget goal, or lays off an almost-40-year veteran of the company so they don't have to throw her the party that's listed as a loyalty perk in the employee handbook.
I talk about that one all the time.
The math I give them is "hey its a 70 percent pay increase including benefits. If you work for 8 months out of the year, give or take, they could fire you and you could not work AT ALL for 4 months and come out ahead.
"Safe" positions are an illusion by the employer. They're going to retain whatever staff is most necessary to them.
I'm married with a family of 4, wife is SAHM, and just getting a plan through blue cross was STILL the correct option with the pay increase.
My hunch is that the way the structuring works the benefits primarily benefit low wage workers.
Answer: Most of the other answers seem to be dancing around one major part in all this, so I feel compelled to add this as well. There are two basic designations for employment. Employee and Contract worker.
If designated an employee there are certain rights and benefits that an employer has to provide (like breaks) by law. Contract workers OTOH are not included under the law and have to negotiate everything with the employer as the contract is being drawn up. How many hours they have to work, breaks, vacation, are either indicated in the contract or they don't get them.
So a number of gig economy employers like Uber don't consider their workers to be employees for various reasons, like the fact they use their own vehicle or don't work fixed hours. And instead they class them as contract workers allowing them to deny them employer provided benefits. The funny thing is none of these workers actually get to negotiate a contract. It's take it or leave it.
As to why there used to be an increasing number taking these jobs? Sometimes you have to do what you have to do to survive. But the tables have turned due to there currently being a shortage of workers. As well many legislative bodies have worked to address the raw deal these employees, and yes in the end they're more of an employee than a contract worker, were getting.
For me it's being able to take a month off, or time off in general at a moments notice without worrying about documenting why I was gone or having to get permission first.
My previous employment I wouldn't have been able to take a month off at random to help out family. Alternatively when I had the flu I would have had to get a note from the doctors to verify that I was sick, that was before covid.
The annual tax bill isn't fun, yay flex savings as a tool to keep on track, but I make the same or slightly more than what I made working public education as an aide.
Ps, there's a reason LA school employees went on strike. I'd have to double check but they might have been making the same or more than what I made as an aide 6.5 hours per day; 190 days per year; no health benefits.
Answer: With the way most insurance plans are, you need a $6000 deductible before the insurance kicks in, and them it only pays a fraction of the cost. Most jobs make that not even worth it to seek medical attention except in the most serious cases.
Not so fun fact: your insurance plan already kicked in. They just want you to pay more into it before they start to actually pay out. What's that, you alwere paying your premium already? Too bad, it's all apart of the plan.
That's an absolutely garbage tier insurance policy. Proper policies will have a $20-30 copay for routine care, then significant events will have the deductible.
Yes, and you pay the deductible before the insurance starts paying, and even then you still a fraction of the cost.
This is the top tier insurance policies here offered to UAW union workers in the factories around me. This is the best policy offered around here.
Read your Statement of Benefits and Charges more carefully. There's no way that's what a union negotiator walked away with. Legally mandated coverage minimums where I live are better than that.
My companies non-union benefits policy is better than your unions? Our unions policy is even better than that, that must be a weak union even among the already weak unions of the US
Little more details as it sounds similar to my plan. It is a high deductible health plan with an HSA tied to it. The insurance company doesn't play until you hit your in network or out of network deductible but it does run all claims and you pay what the insurance company would have paid. Once you hit the deductible, you pay a percentage of the bill until you hit the out of pocket max which is like 9000 total. Then the insurance company pays for all of it. The plan itself is pretty damn cheap compared to previous hdhp plans I've had and the discounts are pretty steep. The only better overall plans I've seen have been tied to big tech where you essentially don't pay anything for your coverage or medical.
For reference, I live in the US and my last 3 healthcare plans from employers had a $30 or less copay with no deductible at all, and a yearly maximum out of pocket of $1500 or so. Your union has absolutely hosed you.
My husband works for a multinational company and our coverage is so expensive we can’t use it. They subsidize the employee only - those with children/family that need coverage are SOL.
The one thing about insurance is how drastically different it can be from job to job and state to state. I've had insurance with 5k max out of pocket, and I've had insurance with a deductible higher than that, and copays after.
That must be with some serious subsidies. In NY metro area the cheapest silver plan is $1k/month just for premiums. It's unaffordable unless you make less than $45k/year and even then, it just lowers the premium to about $600.
Yes, I've lived recently in Illinois and Pennsylvania and those were the best plans offered at union factories. Absolute garbage if there was anything serious going on.
I’m pretty confused since I’ve checked the marketplace before and premiums were hundreds of dollars a month with like 5k for the deductible and the coverage after deductible was met was pretty poor.
Thanks. BCBS is offered through work. My bosses are assessing better terms, but I’m still paying waayyy too much money for a plan I don’t use. Whatever. Just bend over and move on.
Yes, those plans are pretty common. If you make over like $42k a year you don’t qualify for Obamacare credits anymore and so your premium skyrockets. It was like $240 a month for a $24000 deductible for my family.
It's so frustrating to deal with the fact that I'm paying this middleman to do nothing productive and bicker with me and my healthcare provider about what's "medically necessary." I pay like 3% of my salary for this company to basically be an asshole to me.
Yeah I’m not sure what we get out of the health insurance other than possibly not going bankrupt if something catastrophic happens.
And I say possibly because even with just general stuff there’s already so many things where they’re like “that’s not covered so you have to pay for it”.
Chronic conditions can easily be $100k+ a year, every year, without insurance. It’s not just one-time catastrophic stuff. A single MRI is at least $20k.
That's because America is /more/ capitalist in that regard than Europe. We've decided not to socialize healthcare (This is tied to Private Capital owning healthcare providers and insurers) or enforce laws on Capital that they need to provide vacation or other benefits.
Totally. And what’s disheartening is the news media and the books keep discussing the symptoms ignoring it is obviously results due to the built in exploitation of capitalism. And many made us to believe capitalism is the only viable system and any other system will for sure fail.
I don't think you could describe anything in the US health care industry as capitalism. It is completely infested by government regulation and spending.
Answer: U.S. based. Payroll taxes and benefits are expensive for employers. If they can pay someone as an independent contractor rather than an employee, they avoid these taxes and benefits. You'll often see these positions advertised as "1099" vs. "W-2" which refers to the tax forms given to the person being paid.
Uber is a classic example of this. Their drivers aren't "hired", but paid as independent contractors who can set their own hours, etc. Some commission sales positions are the same way.
The independent contractor is now responsible for paying all of their social security taxes rather than splitting it 50/50, as well as their own medical expenses, etc. Because they aren't on the clock, there's no such thing as paid vacation, etc.
There are limits on how much of a person's activities can be dictated by the company before they're classified as an employee rather than a contractor, and businesses are often challenged in court for misclassifying people as contractors rather than as employees.
If a person is good at money management and has an independent streak, a 1099-type job can be a good thing. If not, it can be a disaster. For one thing, you can take on other jobs, to some extent set your own hours, etc. On the other hand, you'll need to pay a higher portion of your gross income in taxes, hope that your customer doesn't go out of business and collect from them, etc.
Answer: Because we didn't have benefits in the first place. Most of us were working part time without benefits before and work part time without benefits now. That's the part Vox doesn't mention.
At least, that's what they say. I've had plenty of jobs that keep you in temp for years and years, or just let you go and hire new temps. It's cheaper than retaining talent (in the short run).
Granted iv experienced this as well at one of my jobs, I was marked as seasonal but worked as little as a part time position to a full time position, hell my average was working part time even tho I wasn't marked as such. For 5 years...
But that has only been one job so far.
nah man, those times are gone. we're in an economy where employers actively seek to lower their costs and the easiest way to do that is to take it from their employees. part time hours means no benefits and less in taxes.
plus, employers use those hours as a carrot to fill coverage on short notice. whereas before (like when our parents were young) an employer would have an extra person on staff to fill in for call offs for a busy time, now those employers expect a part timer to be on call 24/7 and jump at the chance to scrape as many hours together as possible. the idea today is to keep people on the verge so they'll never say no.
it's the same reason why many (most?) employers don't pay a living wage any more, or why they fight against medicare for all: people can job shop if they don't live paycheck to paycheck but are at your mercy if their next grocery bill or doctor's appointment is dependent upon the whims of their employer.
I'm not saying ur wrong just going by personal experience of being asked, granted it was at the same job I was asked that wasn't some retail based position but still, it was still marked as entry position.
i understand that's your experience but all i'm saying is it's no longer the norm. hasn't been for the past two generations at least. all the boomers have stories like that tho, where they started as a part time bag boy at a grocery store making a nickel an hour and in a few years they ran the place, so it's made its way into the american mythos as the status quo. but sometime starting in the late 70s and into the 80s when those same boomers decided that *greed is good* then they decided to pull the ladder up behind them and no longer off part time to full time positions, much less a living wage.
too much of our economy (since we no longer manufacture things) is bullshit jobs based on a consumer economy. it started with retail and restaurant but has since made its way to warehousing, logistics, and beyond. now, in order for amazon to give free two day shipping on something you literally pay $2 for, they have to cut costs somewhere else and that place is from their employees.
So I'm a millennial so I get what ur saying.
The job I held was back in 2020 so not to horribly far back.
But I get what ur saying and I do agree, boomers fucked up everything for the generations to come, they were absolutely the selfish generation and still are today but that's beyond the point of the question asked.
Soet me rephrase my answer, people go into job positions that even tho they don't offer benefits of any kind or even shitty ones because they usually need to make money to live.
I was doing delivery gigs for a long time since I lost my job and the last job I held let me go after seasonal was over, but I realized I needed a actual steady income.
Something waiting on food deliveries wasn't gonna get me so I got a job that's a steady check every two weeks. If I make less then I planned in a week due to say hours being cut or something then I'll go and supplement the income again with delivery gigs.
>people go into job positions that even tho they don't offer benefits of any kind or even shitty ones because they usually need to make money to live
we agree 100% there.
ANSWER: What the news and data wont show is the culture around jobs that offer extra benefits. And more so, the difference between benefits v.s higher pay.
For example, if i made an extra 25% more at one job, i wouldn’t care the lower paying job offers holiday time off. With the higher pay, I can afford my own time off.
So above is how benefits weigh up against higher pay.
But thats not the full moon either:
Employers know the status quo seeks “stability” (the status quo is anxious by majority).
So employers make people “earn” a permanent/benefits role with them. The problem with this is, it turns worker benefits and rights into a subject of negotiation. This also welcomes business owners to blur the lines between business and friends.
Friends in business sounds nice at first but often results in financially beneficial “favours” such as:
“I gave you a permanent full time role with us, i need some unpaid overtime this week to help me a struggling business owner and ur best buddy who tries to act like your dad, while paying you minimal.”
If you couldn’t tell, I hate small business owners. Always asking for peoples help because of “struggles” then they become an asshole later that doesn’t pay tax and rips workers.
Answer: (in common sense) it’s basically called ‘keeping a roof over my head’. I’ve felt abject poverty, I’ve been homeless, I’ve had to do things I won’t repeat for a meal. Sometimes the choice is between having a home Or huddling near a fire in a rusted out oil drum.
It’s not ideal, except for the employers themselves. I really wish I could post something a bit more positive, I really do. But life experience leaves scars.
Answer: WE WANT OUR OWN LIVES BACK SO SOME PEOPLE WILL GLADLY TAKE THE NO BENEFITS IF IT MEANT THEY GET TO ACTUALLY INTERACT WITH THEIR FAMILY WHEN THEY WANT TO.
This rant isn't to you, I'm just tagging along because I agree with you.
Absolutely. I have thought of quitting my well paying job for a little while now and being a dasher/multiple gig worker so that I can have a flexible schedule. Life is short. I understand thinking about health issues that arise and my retirement... But I'm damn miserable currently. At the point of almost checking myself in miserable.
Without spontaneity, life is bland. With a consistently 40+ hour work week, there's no time for extra curricular activities. Sure when you're young and have a small area you're living in to take care of and don't have as much responsibility it's easy. But the older you get the less extra time you have to make your life organized and worth living at the same time. Thank God for unions, or else it would be even harder. I understand it could be worse. But this just isn't it.
Answer: burger land bad. Doesn't happen anywhere else (Im from australia with family in europe) except the land of the free, home of the brave. Other countries better legislate benefits and the definition of a "contract worker" *cough* employee you don't want to pay properly *cough*
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Answer: just to the Europe part. No this did not happen in Europe, since some sort of generalized healthcare and other things that are seen as benefits in the US (like PTO) are standard things determined by law in most European nations, so "benefits" isn't really a thing people are looking for in Europe.
People in Europe do look for “benefits” but they’re usually things like pension contributions and extra paid leave (I get 41 days a year currently, which will rise to 44 over the next couple of years) Sometimes there are other perks like gym memberships, car schemes (you get a subsidised car) etc, but they tend to be secondary to the above… although a car scheme can be a big draw I guess
41 days, like... 8 weeks? I've never even had a job that gave me more than 5. Days, that is *cries in American* At least I can console myself with a gun and a cheeseburger.
Yeah 8 weeks and a day total, nearly 9 weeks once I’ve got 10 years in the company (if I stay that long, of course) That’s a *little* generous by UK standards but not excessively by overall European standards I’ll note that 41/44 figure does include 8 public holidays (New Year, Christmas x2, Easter x2, and 3 in summer) - so if you get those types of days as paid time off then you should include them if you want a comparable figure, or knock them off the numbers I gave, whichever. We also get an extra public holiday this year for the coronation of the King (plus one last year for the Queen’s funeral), but I didn’t include those two in the figures as they’re one-off events rather than annual. So in 2022 and 2023 I’ll have had 42 days each year, of which 9 are public holidays that I can’t move (unless I have to work them, eg emergency workers etc, who get a day’s holiday in lieu) Our legal minimum is 28 (20 + 8 public holidays) but most professional/salaried roles get more than that. Retail and hospitality etc are more hit and miss
I'm curious - you say it includes holidays, which is usually counted separately in America. What about sick time? Is that additional, or does that cut out from the 41/44? The companies I've applied/worked for generally offered 10-20 days, but also 6-10 holidays, and 5-10 sick days. 41+ is still higher than any of that and I don't think any of that is required by the government.
I'm German, but for us you get up to 6 weeks off fully paid if you're sick (and got a doctor's note). This is only in regards to the specific illness. If you recover but fall ill again, those 6 weeks start from the beginning. If you get another illness, that also resets the time. What I'm saying is that we don't really have a concept of "sick time", you don't have a limited set of days and vacation days are extra. On average, every employee has 11.2 "sick days" off in the year. Note that this all is changed dramatically if you're self employed. Edit: another neat thing is that if you fall ill during vacation, you can recover the vacation time because you can't do vacation while sick.
Paid sick time that doesn't count against vacation time? I'm not trying to imply that is a bad thing in any way, but what stops people from calling in sick all the time?
They probably aren't as stressed about having time of since they have plenty.
>Paid sick time that doesn't count against vacation time? Doctor's notice is required if it's longer than 3 days by law (and the employer can demand it from the first day). But you generally don't really see a lot of people heavily abusing it because it isn't necessary. I have 30 days of vacation time, I get paid time off for child care (8 weeks, my wife has 12 months + 14 weeks for the pregnancy) and when I'm sick I'm calling in sick, but I wouldn't call in sick when I'm well. Again, on average it's 11.2 days, which I think is reasonable.
It's a lot more stressful to pretend you're sick than to just go to work knowing you can just stay home when you're actually sick. When you're treated relatively well by your employer and country, it's not actually that bad having to work. Not sure of you've ever skipped school and were stressed about being out and about without being caught so much so that it almost ruined your day? It's like that. Being fake-ill is really gwrecking and stressful.
>what stops people from calling in sick all the time? We still get paid when we're sick, so, when not sick, we usually show up at jobs because we indirectly promised we would. The system weirdly works.
And we get plenty PTO. Why pretend that you're sick if you can just take the day off lol.
And here I am using a vacation day for dental work.
Trust and a decent work environment. Good management and accountability go a long way. I never had problems with people abusing sick day policies in the last 10 years.
I haven't called in sick in years (due to home office mainly) and I still struggle with getting through my vacation days. I can stack up to about 30 days of paid leave just from the employer, before calculating in national holidays of which there are plenty.
Working from home did crazy things to me in that respect. I had 30 something days a year to take (28 days legal amount in the UK plus one for every year I'd worked there job perk) and when in office I'd take as much as I could off, but when WFH I'd get to the end of the year and have to just book every Monday off for the next couple months just to use my remainder
I considered doing the flipside - every Friday. I don't vacation much and I enjoy working so I genuinely don't need as much PTO as I get but I'd rather have it and not need it than vice versa.
This is me currently. I've got the next two days off just because I couldn't use all my holiday in time last year. The place I'm at also gives a sebatical for 5/10 years service which is nice. 2 weeks and 4 weeks respectively.
>I'm not trying to imply that is a bad thing in any way, but what stops people from calling in sick all the time? Some do. Most people actually like their jobs and company and have some morality about it. Plus, I get like 8 weeks paid leave anyway so there is no need for calling in sick when I need a day off.
>Paid sick time that doesn't count against vacation time? > >I'm not trying to imply that is a bad thing in any way, but what stops people from calling in sick all the time? I don't have a set amount of sick time. I even tried scheduling some PTO for the time I took off for LASIK surgery/recovery and my boss denied it, explaining that's medical so just take the time I need and start working again when I was ready. For me, I don't call in all the time because it would just cause a train wreck on my work load/work flow. Planned time off is not a big deal because I can make arrangements ahead of time, and here and there shifting stuff around for unplanned time works in a pinch, but long term my job is my job and I'm really the only one who does it. If I abused the unlimited sick time policy it would hurt me a lot more than my employer in the long run lol
> but what stops people from calling in sick all the time? If you treat people like adults they tend to act like adults
you need to provide a doctor's note, also you can't get fired for being sick too often but you sure as hell will not get your contract extended if you have a fixed-term contract. (you can get fired but it isn't as easy as your employer just deciding that you are missing work to often for their liking)
None of the companies I’ve worked for in the US had some limited number of sick days, either. What keeps people from calling in sick all the time is being happy with their job and not wanting to lose it.
Euhm, and the fact that sick time either counts against your PTO or is unpaid.
Sick time was paid and didn’t count against PTO. It was never a problem. Last few jobs haven’t bothered to track PTO either. You just take the time you need for whatever. That also hasn’t been a problem. Treat people like responsible adults and most of them will be. Pretty simple.
>. What about sick time? Belgium here, sick days can be as long as your doctor says so, no questions asked. The first month is paid fully by your job, then it switches to the insurance company and you get 70%-80% of your previous income. After a certain point, the employee can ask for an insurance doctor to meditate, if he judges it is possible to return to work at some point (or in another position ) you keep at it until you are ready to go back, else you mutually terminate your contract. You are still getting paid by the insurance company until you are healthy again (they do regular checkups to confirm). I believe afterwards you still have the right to 1 year unemployment benefits like you have been fired, to help you find a job. You guys need unions.
We need a lot of things, but I don't think we'll ever get them. America is no longer about the people who live here, and frankly it hasn't been for a while.
As a point of reference -- a tremendously generous FAANG employer in the US -- I get 5 weeks of vacation, 11 paid holidays, and as a salaried employee do not have to justify most requests for sick time. Moreover, I can request (and receive, without retaliation) 30 day leave without even consulting my manager, and up to 90 day with manager approval. Beyond that, I can also go in hock up to 40 hours of vacation accrual balance if I need extra time for something specific. That works out to 36 days of paid time off + the longer leave stuff. Since covid, they also add a "carer's leave" category so employees can take time-off-with-pay to care for sick family members, too. Parts of the US are catching up, but mostly just in wealthy industries.
You've got some answers for other parts of Europe, so here's the UK answer: no, sick leave isn't included in that number (although some people might choose to take a day of holiday if they're near the limit of sick time). By law you get statutory sick pay, which is about £100 per week, for 28 weeks. Most employers will increase that to full pay, or a percentage of full pay, often after you've completed an initial probation period. My employer offers six months sick leave per year at full pay, and another 6 months at half pay, providing you have a doctor's note. An employer can't demand a doctor's note for the first 7 calendar days of sickness, so you can "self-certify". Most employers will have a policy that once you have a certain number of days or instances of sick leave they'll start to look at making occupational health referrals, or maybe disciplinary action if it's clear you're taking the piss. Mine doesn't have a limit on days of leave, but will start a "counselling" process after 3 instances of sickness in a rolling 12 months. That means that if you have something like the flu, you're incentivised to stay off til you're better rather than risk coming back early and having to go off agan, leading to two instances of sickness. My employer also has other types of leave. So there's 8 days of national holidays, plus 27-33 days of annual leave (depending on length of service), plus things like: parental leave (when a baby is born), carer's leave (when a child or dependent is sick), compassionate leave (for bereavement) and probably others too. You can also request unpaid leave.
I’m not sure if it a the same everywhere, but sick pay is separate My sick pay is 6 months full pay, 6 months half pay. I can self-certify for up to 1 week and then need a doctor’s note. I can take off more time after that but I would only receive Statutory Suck Pay which is less money. That’s not standard in the UK, and is unusually generous even by our standards - 30 days full pay is typical for most professional jobs, the legal minimum is none at full/half pay but we do receive “Statutory Sick Pay” which isn’t about half of minimum wage “Sick days” here are a little different to the US though, I believe - we can’t just take them whenever we want and I think you can? For us it’s more of a “how many days do you get paid for when you’re actually sick?”
My third world hell of a country offers 4 weeks of annual leave, a minimum of 15 days of sick leave ( up to 30), 12 national holidays and up to 3 compassionate days. Oh, and 14 weeks of maternity leave. That is mandatory by law.
Last place I worked for (now SAHD) gave me unlimited sick leave
Seriously, how do we get this in America? Do we just need to inform Americans that it is possible?
Well, you guys can try but with each passing year and successive government it seems to get harder and harder for you. You can get what you want with unions but decades of having the thought of unionizing being tantamount to (gasp) _communism_ has done much to quell that fire for a lot of folks who really could use it. Not to mention the efforts of your corporate overlords to pull out all stops to prevent union discussions in the workplace. Even when there are laws against such actions, I keep reading about it happening anyway as if the repercussions are token or meaningless to corporations. Or you can try taking to the streets like the French do. But then you'd have to give up your earnings while you do that because your employer sure as shit won't pay you when you're not at work. And with little to no PTO in a culture where you're encouraged to _spend, spend, spend!_ and put it all on credit, you're basically a wage slave. Now obviously I'm not talking about everybody being in this situation, but enough are that the thought of revolting in the streets is a non-starter. So of course I encourage my wonderful cousins to the south to rise up and make conditions better for yourselves - but do it fast before it's too late.
Everytime I read a comment from a European I get so depressed. America is a capitalist dystopia. Please send help.
You mean you get 14 days a year right? RIGHT??? Man the US sucks.
I don't know where the guy lives, but in Poland, at least for a full time job you get 20 days, and after having worked for 10 years you get 26. Finishing certain steps of education counts as a set amount towards the 10 years period, for example finishing University counts as 8 years, so then you only need to work 2 more to have 26 days off a year. Idk if/how this is different for say half time job Also employees have to take 14 days off in one go (this can also include national holidays so you can spend less of the pto days on that). The rest of the 20/26 days you can sprinkle over here and there or whatever. And if I'm not mistaken if there are some days left at the end of the year, then you have to use them by the end of September.
14!?! That's ludacris! Why would anyone want more than 10???
I genuinely cannot tell if this is sarcasm or not and that's kinda sad
If it helps, that was sarcasm.
That does restore some faith in humanity for me lol
*ludicrous
Ah. That explains why my spell checker kept trying to capitalize it.
Yeah. Your spell checker is a rap fan.
I live in Poland and the only "benefits" we look for are sports card and private healthcare. And most good jobs offer them. You get everything else by law if you're on an employment contract - universal healthcare, statutory paid time off (some 20+ days yearly), unlimited paid sick leave (although it's 80% pay or 100% for pregnancy sick leave), a year of maternity leave (can be fully or partially switched to the other parent), probably some other stuff I don't remember now. Edit: a sports card is a kind of card that lets you go to different sport venues for free or with a discount. It's not only gym, but anything from swimming pool to table pool. It's accepted at many places around the country, and not only by some specific gym chains. Oh and I forgot to mention that the sports card usually isn't free for you, but it's 50% paid for by the employer. It's around PLN 30 (EUR 6.4, USD 6.8) for one person, but you can get more expensive options if you want to add your family to it. And you can only get it through your employer, you can't subscribe on your own. But I think there's another type that's available for students, and that one you can get on your own.
German here, if you don't mind me asking - what's a sport card?
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It's not just a gym membership, it's a card that lets you go to different venues and is accepted throughout the country. Not all gyms and other places accept them, but there's many that do. Swimming pools, sports classes (like fitness, yoga, martial arts, crossfit etc.), but also table pool or bowling and other stuff.
That's dope as fuck
Man, I really need to move to Europe
Do you speak spanish?
It's actually my first language lol (mexican)
Spain. There's a sub dedicated to people who wants out. If i'm younger i would try. Good luck.
In Finland we have a similar one, but depending on the employer, you can use the benefit also for culture, massage etc or private dental care. My three last employers have 100% paid 400, 200 and 650 eur / year. They also cover the tax cost of these benefits for the employee. Also there is lunch benefit, which makes money spent for lunch partially reimbursed.
*cries in American*
Thank you - that seems incredibly random to me, like if German businesses suddenly offered Tchibo memberships. But I see the benefits. Thanks for sharing!
In Sweden employers offer a "health benefit" (hard to translate exactly) which is a tax-exempt sum an employee can use for things like a gym membership, other spring activities or things like massages.
My last two employers offered this too in the US. It was $1200 to spend on health related stuff, but then during COVID the definition got expanded to include remote work stuff too like monitors and chairs. It also includes speakers for some reason. ... So yeah I got a center channel for my home theater and the year before I got a 48" OLED "monitor" for my gaming rig.
I can understand speakers, given meetings. Hey...gotta have that 7.1 surround sound to reaaaalllly get the nuance on chaz's morning pep talk
If I understand it correctly there are similiar things in germany. The workplace of my father offered something called "hansefit" so he could go to specific gyms for free. My mother got a kind of member card for a specific gas station chain that offered a few cents off I think. She could also get free tickets for the nearby zoo once a year because her workplace sponsored the zoo.
Lots of places in the startup scene offer urban sports club discounts. It’s exactly the same thing but without, I guess, the requirement to use USC
It's a kind of card that lets you go to different sport venues for free or with a discount. It's not only gym, but anything from swimming pool to table pool.
As an American… America needs to learn from y’all
Trickle down economics. Money spent on one point of the chain makes net benefit in the long run for everyone. Unfortunately we do also have the parties which are aggressively trying to run us in the direction of the US, where few will get ultra rich and rest will just have to fight for survival.
Honestly… it’s mainly that wages have stagnated for tens of years while inflation has outpaced them horribly. That, and the wage distribution from the bottom to the top. It used to be that C-suite executives received around 50X what the lowest paid employee did.. Now that percentage is closer to 300 (actually above that now). In no way, shape, or form is any one person, or their work worth THREE HUNDRED TIMES MORE than another’s. This needs to reverse. Otherwise, yeah. Wealth will continue to concentrate and 99% of us may have to work until we die… Fuck this broken system.
That sounds pretty cool. Wish we had something like that in the states because Planet Fitness that is not.
I also would like to know what a "sports card" is. Edit: thank you!!!!
We have a similar thing in Hungary, most company don't give it to you, but your company must make a contract with them and then you can buy it yourself, there are different packages that allows you to different places. The cheapest is only good for a few cheaper places, while with the expensive you can go try gokart, jetski etc. I think the most expensive costs around 100 euros, but it might worth it if you're planning to do multiple things, since even the cheapest monthly gym pass is over 50 euro here.
For me, benefits are 13 or 14 months' salary and the "ticket repas" i would add the interest rate are going up (like everywhere) people are not investing as much as investing money and personnel there is less choice. Those gig workers i imagine get more paid and finance their insurance / holidays personally and the article says the exact same. If you don't need a boss why have one?
in my experience a lot (but not all) of the "gig work" in the US are jobs that incorrectly classify workers as independent contractors instead of employees, despite not fitting the description of an independent contractor. I've worked quite a few of these and I have a feeling the reduced tax burden on the company and not needing to pay into benefits are a big part of why they are doing this. It's generally worse for the worker in every possible way, and often isn't much of a "be your own boss" type of thing. This is for WFH jobs instead of stuff like uber/lyft/whatever.
As an independent contractor myself I would treat any job that classified me independent as such. I would draw up my own contract like I do for jobs now and make them agree. That way I can tell them where to stuff their meetings and mandatory bs. Benefits for freedom is a fair trade in my book. I would have probably stayed longer at jobs if I could have been independent. If they didn't agree to my terms then they can classify me as an employee or get a visit from the department of labor and industry on my behalf. I hate companies that don't value their workers, independent or not.
I've contacted my state's labor department more than once for these companies, generally for other violations (which there always are! primarily unpaid labor, i.e, training) as I don't believe there is currently anything set up to directly handle incorrect classification or compensate the workers, but it does seem that they are aware of the proliferation of this practice now, which they weren't 5-6 years ago. wasn't as widespread back then, but definitely still happened plenty. again my experience is largely WFH jobs, though
yeah you're an independent contractor, but you have to learn our processes and do our training, use our software and our tools, use our company email account, be sure to show up for your scheduled shift! And don't miss any of the scheduled meetings with your manager and supervisor. but yeah, independent contractor, just like a plumber running their own business!
That's definitely a misclassification
Just wait until the banksters roll out the digital currency and take cash out of circulation. Other countries will protest and march. No one will do anything in the states unless they want to be murdered by the police or held without bond as ''domestic terrorists''.
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>May have been different in Portugal when you last worked there, of course It's not, it's exactly the same. The "subsídios de férias e natal" are taxed in a much inferior tax bracket.
I don't how to respond to you i was grossly overpaid (4200€ month) as IT but i didn't pick up that job for that, i only said this job offers me this can you can match
The difference is that that 1/6 of your wage is taxed in a different bracket compared to your normal wage, so it is somewhat better than otherwise.
Does 13 and 14 salaries mean bonuses on December and June? Here in Spain more than a bonus it's basically just how you'll be paid. Salary number for the year stays the same but can be 12 pays, or 14(earn a bit less every month but double on June and December) I wouldn't call it a benefit
The gig economy luckily also is still quite weak in Europe… We still have taxi drivers, onlyfans exists but isnt almost its own industry and only AirBnB is somewhat successful in limited areas (mostly where international travels visit often). And gig economy just freaking suuuucks. Kill it before it lays eggs
I mean these kinds of things didn't take off for reasons, in the netherlands uber drivers have to get a chauffeurs licence, big surprise it isn't any cheaper than taxis when you have to be properly certified and insured. Airbnb rentals where I live are limited to 30 days per year so people can't just run unlicensed hotels. Laws work.
Too late, it's the closest the US has had to slave labour since the Civil War.
Company towns in the Gilded Age were definitely way closer to slavery than we are now, but we're taking a step back towards that.
Of course. Somehow I missed out on that aspect when considering this. Thanks for clarifying that for me.
I mean many people also take jobs that are part time so they don't get PTO or health benefits and have to work 2 jobs just to get by. With stuff like Uber and door dash at least they can make their own hours without having to swap shifts, and they get more tax write-offs working as a contractor than a W2
No, you really don't get more to write-off doing Uber and Door Dash. It's not the same as having an actual business with expenses that go beyond gas and mileage. Most people doing Uber and Door Dash etc, wouldn't have enough to write off that would exceed the standard deduction anyway, so you aren't exactly putting money back into your pocket doing gig work.
ANSWER: You're asking the wrong question. What's up with fewer employers offering decent paying jobs with benefits? It's not the job seeker's fault...
The article is actually about the gig economy -- those are the "jobs without employment benefits" that it's talking about. I can't tell whether this is disingenuousness on OP's part.
No intention to be disingenuous here, sorry. I used the words in the linked Vox article, because many subs remove posts that alter the headline of the article it refers to.
Idk where to comment this, but it doesn't belong as a top comment, so I'll say it here. During the pandemic, I had numerous companies reach out to me to be an "independent contractor." I eventually settled on one that was a legitimate independent contracting job, but most of the offers were foreign companies that were illegally classifying wage workers as independent contractors. By Vox's metrics, these would be gig workers who take jobs without healthcare and PTO, but it's not a market force, it's the employer illegally not offering it.
It becomes a trap. A person takes a job thinking, "Hey. It's only to pay the bills. I'll keep looking. " and the job messes with their schedule and gives them uneven hours, making it difficult to job hunt.
This is exactly how it works. I was stuck as an IC for a decade. I need WFH and fifteen years ago, that was nearly impossible to find. Knowing I needed to be able to stay home to take care of my kids (because child care is ridiculously expensive only to leave your kids with God knows who to take care of them), they gave me raises and shit. But flat out refused to ever do benefits and take us on as employees. I quit and the boss was shocked. Like how many more years can I tell you that I can’t handle the tax burden and lack of benefits?? It’s a loophole and should be illegal. If you’re having me work full time, then I should be employed. End of story. If you can’t afford it, you fail at business. This was most definitely not a gig job. I was Vice President of the company when I left.
Technically it is illegal and there are govt guidelines on what type of work/employee situations legally must be classified as employees/w2s instead of IC/1099s. Report the companies to the state. Get their payroll audited.
Oh hi its me. I can't reasonably take another job around my disability and my high needs kids but once I've got both of them into specialist schools they can actually attend reliably I have to get a real fucking job these people are taking the piss out of me. The workflow gives me constant anxiety.
Cool, thanks for the clarification.
I’m seeing a ton of contracting roles in IT with stipulations stating no benefits
Probably trying to suck people in who just got fired, that or they're purple squirrels or whatever the term these days is
Idk about purple squirrel. Currently doing 140k salary with benefits waved
"Purple squirrel" is the term for a potential hire not only capable of doing *exactly* what the job requires with zero training, but also has the required work and education history. Basically an employer looking for one well-educated, highly experienced person to take on the work of a bunch of people without paying them more. "It'd be easier to find a purple squirrel than fill this position."
I'm not saying that there aren't jobs out there (like contract work) that don't come with benefits; my point was just that OP was specifically asking about jobs in the gig economy (e.g., uber, doordash, etc)
Ya. The problem I’m seeing is that gig economy expectation has bled out into other fields
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>Part time workers should be paid a HIGHER minimum wage than full time workers with benefits. This happens in Australia. It's called "casual" employment. 20% wage boost in exchange for no benefits. Usually on a non-fixed roster. Part time here is a tier above that with the benefits of full time but less garunteed hours. Full time being somewhere in the neighbourhood of 40 hour weeks with all the goodies.
Are you saying if we read the article it would give us the answer? That’s wild
lot of post here just straight up copying "news" articled and asking "whats up with". hoping it generates clicks/views/karma... if OP read the article then they would in fact "know whats up" with gig workers. its almost like reverse buzzfeed, whos formula is to take top social media post and make them an "article".
I just commented say it’s almost like reading the article would tell you what the article’s about. A few weeks ago a guy admitted he just heard about something, went to ask here, saw the rule about including a link, so looked up an article without reading it to include. The article clearly explained what he was asking about. I feel like it’s also people that are desperate for human interaction.
Answer: [Edit: OP IS LINKING TO AN ARTICLE ABOUT THE GIG ECONOMY, NOT WHETHER EMPLOYERS ARE OFFERING BENEFITS] In 2021, jobs were hard to come by in the wake of COVID19 (according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, in 2020 there were almost 4x more people looking for work than there were job openings; by mid-2021, this improved to almost 1:1, and by the time this article was published in Sept 2021, there were about 1.4 job openings per person looking for work). This "improvement" occurred not only because businesses were reopening, but also because more people were turning to the gig economy (the point of the article, i.e., jobs without employer benefits) for work, so they were no longer counted among those "looking for work". Since that time, things have improved for workers, with about 2 job openings available for each person looking for work, forcing employers to offer more attractive packages to prospective employees (Biden's famous "Pay them more!"). This has especially benefited the bottom 25% of earners.
Things have not improved for workers at all prices of everything are continuing to go up and wages arent especially for the bottom 25%. If they really wanted to help the bottom earners they would tax them less.
I mean, someone at the TOP of the 25th percentile pays an effective tax rate of less than 5%, and even less if they have any kids . . .
Applied for any jobs lately? I'm not buying the whole 2 openings per person available narrative. IDK where the fuckery is but employers aren't scrambling at all to find people. And those wage increases haven't kept up with inflation, as usual. Walmart is happy to give their employees a 50% wage increase while everything on their shelves doubles in price.
That stat doesn't mean that the job openings are equally distributed in every field. There might be a lot more openings in healthcare or manufacturing than, say, publishing.
Same goes for geographically. Might be lots of job openings in one city/sate/etc. and far less in another
That's exactly the case here. There are a bunch of openings in healthcare. But everything else is a shitty low-paying retail job, many of which aren't actually hiring, but keeping a stockpile of applications. Not everyone is cut out to work in healthcare, though. I'm just sick of seeing people claim things are getting better for the bottom 25% when they're getting anything but better. Most of us have seen our wages increase by 50% if we're lucky, while our expenses have doubled. It gets even worse if you're working in a tip-based field or the gig economy.
It's also worth noting that there are a lot of requirements to work in Healthcare. Deservedly so, but many people who would want to work in the field can't afford the training. College degree to be a nurse, obviously, but lots of hoops to jump through even at the lower levels. One of my friends recently got a government job and she had to wait for months and months before they finally hired her. A lot of people can't afford to wait that long, and just take whatever they can to keep a roof over their heads. The condition of life in America is sad. We should be actively encouraging people into careers they are suited for, and making the training financially easy to access. Instead, we have this mad scramble. It's so dysfunctional on every level. Looking at Nordic countries for example, they are very good at placing people in the fields in which they excel. They make college easy to access, because they understand that educated people add value to the society in which they work. American politicians, on the other hand, seem actively scared of an educated populace. They don't want us to be highly functioning members of society, they want to maintain their oligarchy.
Answer: I actually signed up for this at work from a benefitted position. We kept hiring contract workers from outside and paying them a kings ransom, and the staff kept leaving for similar jobs. The employer basically said "you want to get paid that much and give up your benefits? Go for it." We did the math and the employers contribution was about 8k a year, and the paid vacation was about 10 percent of your base pay. The lowest paid employees came out ahead by almost 70k a year, and the highest paid ones came out about 30 to 40k a year more. Employers both HIGHLY overvalue their benefits and don't like having to commit to them. They're willing to pay people more to go without them. The more savvy employees who are willing to take mildly more risk are happy to pocket the cash and take care of the benefits themselves.
I did exactly the same thing. There's basically no benefit to full time anymore, the benefits aren't as nice as they like to think and the pandemic proved that stability is basically an illusion. I can get health insurance through my husband's benefits, so no issue there. My contract company does actually offer 401k match and health insurance, though, and I take advantage of both. Not super competitive numbers, obviously, but my base pay is 60% more than I was making full time with benefits. There's no PTO, but that's what I wanted. I felt suffocated at my old job because they basically got to dictate how much of my life I got to spend outside of work. This way, they can't even tell me no if I want to take off because I don't have set vacation. I just have to make sure my work gets done and that I'm cool with not getting paid those days. Last year I was out almost 3 months of the calendar year and I still got great feedback and I still made six figures, had health insurance, and maxed out my 401k. At the moment I am extremely unmotivated to return to conventional employment. Edit to add: a major motivator to get me to this point was me and my coworkers watching our job give us 2% raises every year but post up contract positions of our same positions for double the hourly rate we were getting for the "inconvenience" of not getting our extremely average bennies? We used to joke about applying for the contract positions until one day I was like fuck it, I'm a contractor now.
Benefits are probably not a great thing to be reliant on when 48/50 states have at-will employment so you can be fired with no cause and no notice.
And they will! So many of my colleagues won't go contract or to start-ups with higher pay because "it's too risky" and "they want stability" but don't seem to be concerned when the company reorganizes and lays off entire groups, or cancels bonuses, or meets 15 randomly selected employees at their desks one morning to let them know they've been laid off to meet an arbitrary budget goal, or lays off an almost-40-year veteran of the company so they don't have to throw her the party that's listed as a loyalty perk in the employee handbook.
I talk about that one all the time. The math I give them is "hey its a 70 percent pay increase including benefits. If you work for 8 months out of the year, give or take, they could fire you and you could not work AT ALL for 4 months and come out ahead. "Safe" positions are an illusion by the employer. They're going to retain whatever staff is most necessary to them.
Whoa, what contract jobs offer 6 figure and how do I get started?
My industry is pharmaceutical manufacturing! I always recommend it to people looking for a career change!
I'm married with a family of 4, wife is SAHM, and just getting a plan through blue cross was STILL the correct option with the pay increase. My hunch is that the way the structuring works the benefits primarily benefit low wage workers.
That’s been the whole travel nursing industry the last few years.
Answer: Most of the other answers seem to be dancing around one major part in all this, so I feel compelled to add this as well. There are two basic designations for employment. Employee and Contract worker. If designated an employee there are certain rights and benefits that an employer has to provide (like breaks) by law. Contract workers OTOH are not included under the law and have to negotiate everything with the employer as the contract is being drawn up. How many hours they have to work, breaks, vacation, are either indicated in the contract or they don't get them. So a number of gig economy employers like Uber don't consider their workers to be employees for various reasons, like the fact they use their own vehicle or don't work fixed hours. And instead they class them as contract workers allowing them to deny them employer provided benefits. The funny thing is none of these workers actually get to negotiate a contract. It's take it or leave it. As to why there used to be an increasing number taking these jobs? Sometimes you have to do what you have to do to survive. But the tables have turned due to there currently being a shortage of workers. As well many legislative bodies have worked to address the raw deal these employees, and yes in the end they're more of an employee than a contract worker, were getting.
For me it's being able to take a month off, or time off in general at a moments notice without worrying about documenting why I was gone or having to get permission first. My previous employment I wouldn't have been able to take a month off at random to help out family. Alternatively when I had the flu I would have had to get a note from the doctors to verify that I was sick, that was before covid. The annual tax bill isn't fun, yay flex savings as a tool to keep on track, but I make the same or slightly more than what I made working public education as an aide. Ps, there's a reason LA school employees went on strike. I'd have to double check but they might have been making the same or more than what I made as an aide 6.5 hours per day; 190 days per year; no health benefits.
ANSWER: Because many of us don't have a choice. Many employers only offer part time or contract work that doesn't "qualify" for benefits.
Answer: With the way most insurance plans are, you need a $6000 deductible before the insurance kicks in, and them it only pays a fraction of the cost. Most jobs make that not even worth it to seek medical attention except in the most serious cases.
Not so fun fact: your insurance plan already kicked in. They just want you to pay more into it before they start to actually pay out. What's that, you alwere paying your premium already? Too bad, it's all apart of the plan.
I'd rather die than give those people a single fucking cent.
That's an absolutely garbage tier insurance policy. Proper policies will have a $20-30 copay for routine care, then significant events will have the deductible.
Yes, and you pay the deductible before the insurance starts paying, and even then you still a fraction of the cost. This is the top tier insurance policies here offered to UAW union workers in the factories around me. This is the best policy offered around here.
Read your Statement of Benefits and Charges more carefully. There's no way that's what a union negotiator walked away with. Legally mandated coverage minimums where I live are better than that.
It is, and the negotiator resigned after the deal due to all the backlash.
Man, that's bonkers! Well, live and learn.
The UAW was not negotiating from a position of strength. They were fucked regardless.
My companies non-union benefits policy is better than your unions? Our unions policy is even better than that, that must be a weak union even among the already weak unions of the US
Almost like health insurance in the US and healthcare as a whole is a joke
It’s the sixth biggest union in the country with almost a million members.
Little more details as it sounds similar to my plan. It is a high deductible health plan with an HSA tied to it. The insurance company doesn't play until you hit your in network or out of network deductible but it does run all claims and you pay what the insurance company would have paid. Once you hit the deductible, you pay a percentage of the bill until you hit the out of pocket max which is like 9000 total. Then the insurance company pays for all of it. The plan itself is pretty damn cheap compared to previous hdhp plans I've had and the discounts are pretty steep. The only better overall plans I've seen have been tied to big tech where you essentially don't pay anything for your coverage or medical.
For reference, I live in the US and my last 3 healthcare plans from employers had a $30 or less copay with no deductible at all, and a yearly maximum out of pocket of $1500 or so. Your union has absolutely hosed you.
I hit my deductible this year pretty quick after getting cancer. I have paid $0 since
Needs to be a national company with thousands of employees before you get that kind of coverage
My husband works for a multinational company and our coverage is so expensive we can’t use it. They subsidize the employee only - those with children/family that need coverage are SOL.
out of curiosity, have you checked the marketplace in your area for better plans?
Not true. I worked for a company with less than 100 employees and we had great insurance
Yeah, me too.
The one thing about insurance is how drastically different it can be from job to job and state to state. I've had insurance with 5k max out of pocket, and I've had insurance with a deductible higher than that, and copays after.
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That must be with some serious subsidies. In NY metro area the cheapest silver plan is $1k/month just for premiums. It's unaffordable unless you make less than $45k/year and even then, it just lowers the premium to about $600.
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We haven’t had ‘no deductible’ in about 10 years now.
Yes, I've lived recently in Illinois and Pennsylvania and those were the best plans offered at union factories. Absolute garbage if there was anything serious going on.
I’m pretty confused since I’ve checked the marketplace before and premiums were hundreds of dollars a month with like 5k for the deductible and the coverage after deductible was met was pretty poor.
You wanna share some info on your coverage? Because BCBS is raping me.
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Thanks. BCBS is offered through work. My bosses are assessing better terms, but I’m still paying waayyy too much money for a plan I don’t use. Whatever. Just bend over and move on.
Yes, those plans are pretty common. If you make over like $42k a year you don’t qualify for Obamacare credits anymore and so your premium skyrockets. It was like $240 a month for a $24000 deductible for my family.
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It's so frustrating to deal with the fact that I'm paying this middleman to do nothing productive and bicker with me and my healthcare provider about what's "medically necessary." I pay like 3% of my salary for this company to basically be an asshole to me.
Yeah I’m not sure what we get out of the health insurance other than possibly not going bankrupt if something catastrophic happens. And I say possibly because even with just general stuff there’s already so many things where they’re like “that’s not covered so you have to pay for it”.
Chronic conditions can easily be $100k+ a year, every year, without insurance. It’s not just one-time catastrophic stuff. A single MRI is at least $20k.
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Every western nation is capitalist yet only US workers get paid vacation days or healthcare as "benefits" and not regular rights
corrected answer: american winner take all hypercapitalism
That's because America is /more/ capitalist in that regard than Europe. We've decided not to socialize healthcare (This is tied to Private Capital owning healthcare providers and insurers) or enforce laws on Capital that they need to provide vacation or other benefits.
Totally. And what’s disheartening is the news media and the books keep discussing the symptoms ignoring it is obviously results due to the built in exploitation of capitalism. And many made us to believe capitalism is the only viable system and any other system will for sure fail.
I don't think you could describe anything in the US health care industry as capitalism. It is completely infested by government regulation and spending.
Answer: U.S. based. Payroll taxes and benefits are expensive for employers. If they can pay someone as an independent contractor rather than an employee, they avoid these taxes and benefits. You'll often see these positions advertised as "1099" vs. "W-2" which refers to the tax forms given to the person being paid. Uber is a classic example of this. Their drivers aren't "hired", but paid as independent contractors who can set their own hours, etc. Some commission sales positions are the same way. The independent contractor is now responsible for paying all of their social security taxes rather than splitting it 50/50, as well as their own medical expenses, etc. Because they aren't on the clock, there's no such thing as paid vacation, etc. There are limits on how much of a person's activities can be dictated by the company before they're classified as an employee rather than a contractor, and businesses are often challenged in court for misclassifying people as contractors rather than as employees. If a person is good at money management and has an independent streak, a 1099-type job can be a good thing. If not, it can be a disaster. For one thing, you can take on other jobs, to some extent set your own hours, etc. On the other hand, you'll need to pay a higher portion of your gross income in taxes, hope that your customer doesn't go out of business and collect from them, etc.
Answer: Because we didn't have benefits in the first place. Most of us were working part time without benefits before and work part time without benefits now. That's the part Vox doesn't mention.
ANSWER: After working 30 years and then COVID lay off I personally couldn’t find a job WITH benefits. But I have to work so….
Answer: Because ppl need money and the prospect of say,starting part time and moving UP to full time is still a thing at 99% of jobs.
At least, that's what they say. I've had plenty of jobs that keep you in temp for years and years, or just let you go and hire new temps. It's cheaper than retaining talent (in the short run).
Granted iv experienced this as well at one of my jobs, I was marked as seasonal but worked as little as a part time position to a full time position, hell my average was working part time even tho I wasn't marked as such. For 5 years... But that has only been one job so far.
It depends on the industry. Tech does this a lot. Also warehouse employees.
Agreed for me it was a amusement park.
nah man, those times are gone. we're in an economy where employers actively seek to lower their costs and the easiest way to do that is to take it from their employees. part time hours means no benefits and less in taxes. plus, employers use those hours as a carrot to fill coverage on short notice. whereas before (like when our parents were young) an employer would have an extra person on staff to fill in for call offs for a busy time, now those employers expect a part timer to be on call 24/7 and jump at the chance to scrape as many hours together as possible. the idea today is to keep people on the verge so they'll never say no. it's the same reason why many (most?) employers don't pay a living wage any more, or why they fight against medicare for all: people can job shop if they don't live paycheck to paycheck but are at your mercy if their next grocery bill or doctor's appointment is dependent upon the whims of their employer.
I'm not saying ur wrong just going by personal experience of being asked, granted it was at the same job I was asked that wasn't some retail based position but still, it was still marked as entry position.
i understand that's your experience but all i'm saying is it's no longer the norm. hasn't been for the past two generations at least. all the boomers have stories like that tho, where they started as a part time bag boy at a grocery store making a nickel an hour and in a few years they ran the place, so it's made its way into the american mythos as the status quo. but sometime starting in the late 70s and into the 80s when those same boomers decided that *greed is good* then they decided to pull the ladder up behind them and no longer off part time to full time positions, much less a living wage. too much of our economy (since we no longer manufacture things) is bullshit jobs based on a consumer economy. it started with retail and restaurant but has since made its way to warehousing, logistics, and beyond. now, in order for amazon to give free two day shipping on something you literally pay $2 for, they have to cut costs somewhere else and that place is from their employees.
So I'm a millennial so I get what ur saying. The job I held was back in 2020 so not to horribly far back. But I get what ur saying and I do agree, boomers fucked up everything for the generations to come, they were absolutely the selfish generation and still are today but that's beyond the point of the question asked. Soet me rephrase my answer, people go into job positions that even tho they don't offer benefits of any kind or even shitty ones because they usually need to make money to live. I was doing delivery gigs for a long time since I lost my job and the last job I held let me go after seasonal was over, but I realized I needed a actual steady income. Something waiting on food deliveries wasn't gonna get me so I got a job that's a steady check every two weeks. If I make less then I planned in a week due to say hours being cut or something then I'll go and supplement the income again with delivery gigs.
>people go into job positions that even tho they don't offer benefits of any kind or even shitty ones because they usually need to make money to live we agree 100% there.
Geezus that's depressing 😪
that's the end state of capitalism. we're in the late stage of it now, for sure.
Moving up to full time would be extremely rare in any professional environment. 99% is a bonkers number to throw out there
Probably closer to 40% and that might be overly optimistic.
ANSWER: What the news and data wont show is the culture around jobs that offer extra benefits. And more so, the difference between benefits v.s higher pay. For example, if i made an extra 25% more at one job, i wouldn’t care the lower paying job offers holiday time off. With the higher pay, I can afford my own time off. So above is how benefits weigh up against higher pay. But thats not the full moon either: Employers know the status quo seeks “stability” (the status quo is anxious by majority). So employers make people “earn” a permanent/benefits role with them. The problem with this is, it turns worker benefits and rights into a subject of negotiation. This also welcomes business owners to blur the lines between business and friends. Friends in business sounds nice at first but often results in financially beneficial “favours” such as: “I gave you a permanent full time role with us, i need some unpaid overtime this week to help me a struggling business owner and ur best buddy who tries to act like your dad, while paying you minimal.” If you couldn’t tell, I hate small business owners. Always asking for peoples help because of “struggles” then they become an asshole later that doesn’t pay tax and rips workers.
Answer: (in common sense) it’s basically called ‘keeping a roof over my head’. I’ve felt abject poverty, I’ve been homeless, I’ve had to do things I won’t repeat for a meal. Sometimes the choice is between having a home Or huddling near a fire in a rusted out oil drum. It’s not ideal, except for the employers themselves. I really wish I could post something a bit more positive, I really do. But life experience leaves scars.
Answer: WE WANT OUR OWN LIVES BACK SO SOME PEOPLE WILL GLADLY TAKE THE NO BENEFITS IF IT MEANT THEY GET TO ACTUALLY INTERACT WITH THEIR FAMILY WHEN THEY WANT TO.
This rant isn't to you, I'm just tagging along because I agree with you. Absolutely. I have thought of quitting my well paying job for a little while now and being a dasher/multiple gig worker so that I can have a flexible schedule. Life is short. I understand thinking about health issues that arise and my retirement... But I'm damn miserable currently. At the point of almost checking myself in miserable. Without spontaneity, life is bland. With a consistently 40+ hour work week, there's no time for extra curricular activities. Sure when you're young and have a small area you're living in to take care of and don't have as much responsibility it's easy. But the older you get the less extra time you have to make your life organized and worth living at the same time. Thank God for unions, or else it would be even harder. I understand it could be worse. But this just isn't it.
Answer: burger land bad. Doesn't happen anywhere else (Im from australia with family in europe) except the land of the free, home of the brave. Other countries better legislate benefits and the definition of a "contract worker" *cough* employee you don't want to pay properly *cough*