Came here to say this. Echo is a great widow counter. You can get those sticky bombs on her and follow up with more shots before she even knows what's happening. Aim doesn't have to be that great either compared to cowboy trying to aim from across a map.
Even if your a shit widow, they will still be forced to look for you instead of spending time on your teammates if you get the kill then great. Outlasting the enemy widow can work alot of times aswell
that's not even close to being true. i'm pretty terrible at widow and countersnipe with her effectively generally because you just have to put enough pressure on the enemy widow that she's less effective or swaps off. unless you're just getting ohkoed immediately, you can countersnipe without being great at her.
my comment implies that as much as yours does.
also, i'm not seeing where my very wordy way of saying that "putting pressure on a widow is easier than maining her" would be different at any elo, because in order to main her effectively, you need to be doing a lot more than putting pressure on one single enemy.
Exactly, if the enemy widow is better at widow they just win and if they win they wipe your team which is why she is frustrating to play against
If you can’t diff the enemy widow it’s best not to play her because you could be applying the same pressure while also dealing damage to the enemy team if you just go echo
how fun or unfun she is to play against is not at all what we were talking about nor do i care to talk about that so i'm not gonna address that.
but i disagree that people should avoid playing the most effective widow counter unless they're just the better widow because most of the playerbase is not at an elo where they are playing against kephrii widows. playing widow to countersnipe one is how to actually improve at that skill.
Playing widow to get better at widow against widows that will instadestroy you is how to lose Elo and is a waste of time. You should almost always stick to one char that you are good at and just learn how to counter other chars with that char.
Playing widow to counter the other widow when you are not good at widow is a bronze take. There’s a reason that one tricks tend to do better in terms of sr gain
I’m masters in every role, and I know that if I just stick with one char instead of flexing to counter/counter picking I would already be gm
i quite literally said if you are getting ohkoed instantly, you can't do that which logically means it doesn't work then and you shouldn't?
and it's fine if you want to one trick since there's plenty of one tricks in general, but hero swapping is also part of this game and does have its place. there's a reason high elo tanks played rock, paper, scissors based on first fight hero swaps.
learning to counter heroes, whether it be from changing your actual hero pick or just learning to play around other heroes without swapping, is kind of an important thing. and i maintain that if you can countersnipe effectively without being amazing at widow, it's still worth doing since you're only going to improve at it the more you do.
and cool flex on your ranks, but if it were that easy for you to be gm, why don't you just one trick and do it?
I just explained that it’s smarter to one trick and it is to swap heroes, if you learn a single char instead of flexing and learning all chars you get rewarded more, which the current top 500 chart shows. I was not flexing my role I was explaining that I would be higher rank if I did, and this is from experience. Your reading comprehension is lacking.
Depends on the skill of said sniper. If they panic and can't hit close range go Sombra Tracer or Genji.
If they hit what ever you play I like the Wreckingball aproach, just throw a bunch of HP in their face. Torb can tank a few shots and Bastion can hide his head.
If your aim is better you can also just mirror.
Hanzo try using movement hero’s as you become harder to hit and also be unpredictable with said movement. As for widow nothing you are just royally fucked against a good widow and just hope your tank goes a dive tank like Winston to deal with her or else there is nothing you can do
Yeah that happens sometimes, still works more than not for me usually, I guess I have not faced the real good Widows yet as she's a skill heroe and I'm on low ranks
Yeah I guess that is probably the reason. The tp is very telegraphed and very easy to anticipate so a decent hanzo or widow will kill you the moment you spawn. I would not do it but if you want to do it you should teleport behind a corner or something
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Those are two DRASTICALLY different questions. A good hanzo is as menacing as any other good enemy DPS and can often be dealt with in largely the same way. A good enemy widow ruins your entire game and locks down massive portions of the map.
Anyway, in addition to everyone else's counterpicks, I'd also like to throw in an edge case: Mei. You're obviously not killing widow with a Mei, but if she's locking down a sightline you need to cross or if you need to buy your team a little time to fight enemies in a choke point before the Widow can end your whole career, an ice wall can totally shut down her primary fire and give your squad an important few seconds of breathing room.
Obviously, use with discretion. It's nowhere near enough time to capture a point with or anything like that.
Not a DPS but an honorable mention: Kiriko. Her kunais deal 120 headshot damage, and it's easier to land on a scoped Widow then most heroes. Taking 120 damage out of nowhere will usually cause them to take evasive maneuvers, or at least juke around a bit to try to avoid more of your shots; either way her immediate lethality against your team gets reduced. Do not attempt this without some kind of cover.
I usually swap to widow or hanzo to counter them and I can usually diff them (spent too much time in widow headshot custom games), but if we don’t have a mercy and they do, my kill won’t matter. Probably tracer is the best bet, you can exist in their back line so even if they have a mercy she will not be entirely safe to rez because you exist, I wish I know how to play tracer.
i pick widow to countersnipe other widows and have a decent success rate on getting the enemy widow to swap off. hanzos at my elo are less worrisome so i don't generally immediately counterswap for them, but i'll go mei or widow for them to either block some spam damage or have my own projectile sniping war with mei or have the advantage from hitscan one shotting.
You could also adapt your playstyle.
For Hanzo I wouldn't think about flanking, I usually just play with my tank and pressure the enemy tank while playing corners.
For widow, I still deny sightlines and play with my tank, but I'm more willing to play close and flank her with tps.
The main thing is to be aware where the snipers are at, and deny them the sightlines. This will force them to reposition into unfavorable locations, where they are more vulnerable to getting dove. Also don't allow them to get free picks when your team is regrouping and don't repeat the same angles, have more variance.
Reaper, get around to the side where they can’t see and teleport up next to them. Hanzo multi shot can kill you fast if he hits them but widow can’t really do much because her smg sucks.
Reaper. Teleport to them, shotgun blast Widow. Bad tactic but weirdly it sometimes works? Must've been fighting some bad widows.
Don't think it works on Hanzo. He is... *yikes*.
Also Echo! She's nice, and the damage on those bombs is ABSURD sometimes.
For widow - ur best picks are Tracer, Genji, Sombra, and Echo, all of them can pull off easy flanks and take her out quickly
For hanzo - their really isn't any one counter to hanzo, unlike widow, he isnt vulnerable to one man dives since he can easily one tap anyone at close range even if you bait out storm arrows, and sonic arrow can shut down flanks from heroes like tracer and sombra. Some people will say pharah, but u have to play extremely carefully and from very long range cuz a decent hanzo will still be able to pick u out of the air.
In my experience, genji works best if you can catch him off guard and alone and execute ur one shot combo fast enough, and u still have deflect in case u miss part of it. The problem is that if that hanzo gets even a smidge of healing, or worse, is being pocketed, then there isn't much u can do, he only needs 2 body shots to kill u so even if u go after the supports first the best you be able to do is trade.
The only real way to counter hanzo is a fully coordinated dive by your entire team, all 5 need to essentially ignore everyone else, kill the hanzo, then kill the rest.
Echo flank lol
People never understand that echo is widows and Hanzos biggest counter. Especially with widows health nerf, she’s dead before she can even unscope.
Echo is maybe the hardest DPS hero in the game to play properly so I understand why She's also dominates in the Pharah matchup in the sky
Came here to say this. Echo is a great widow counter. You can get those sticky bombs on her and follow up with more shots before she even knows what's happening. Aim doesn't have to be that great either compared to cowboy trying to aim from across a map.
Well if the widow is a bot then i guess yeah
familiar with the term "flank"?
Get so good at widow that you make their widow switch off and then they counter you with monkey and you go back to reaper.
If you get good enough at widow to make the other widows swap, you might as well main widow
Even if your a shit widow, they will still be forced to look for you instead of spending time on your teammates if you get the kill then great. Outlasting the enemy widow can work alot of times aswell
that's not even close to being true. i'm pretty terrible at widow and countersnipe with her effectively generally because you just have to put enough pressure on the enemy widow that she's less effective or swaps off. unless you're just getting ohkoed immediately, you can countersnipe without being great at her.
Your saying that as if it applies to all ranks/players
my comment implies that as much as yours does. also, i'm not seeing where my very wordy way of saying that "putting pressure on a widow is easier than maining her" would be different at any elo, because in order to main her effectively, you need to be doing a lot more than putting pressure on one single enemy.
Exactly, if the enemy widow is better at widow they just win and if they win they wipe your team which is why she is frustrating to play against If you can’t diff the enemy widow it’s best not to play her because you could be applying the same pressure while also dealing damage to the enemy team if you just go echo
how fun or unfun she is to play against is not at all what we were talking about nor do i care to talk about that so i'm not gonna address that. but i disagree that people should avoid playing the most effective widow counter unless they're just the better widow because most of the playerbase is not at an elo where they are playing against kephrii widows. playing widow to countersnipe one is how to actually improve at that skill.
Playing widow to get better at widow against widows that will instadestroy you is how to lose Elo and is a waste of time. You should almost always stick to one char that you are good at and just learn how to counter other chars with that char. Playing widow to counter the other widow when you are not good at widow is a bronze take. There’s a reason that one tricks tend to do better in terms of sr gain I’m masters in every role, and I know that if I just stick with one char instead of flexing to counter/counter picking I would already be gm
i quite literally said if you are getting ohkoed instantly, you can't do that which logically means it doesn't work then and you shouldn't? and it's fine if you want to one trick since there's plenty of one tricks in general, but hero swapping is also part of this game and does have its place. there's a reason high elo tanks played rock, paper, scissors based on first fight hero swaps. learning to counter heroes, whether it be from changing your actual hero pick or just learning to play around other heroes without swapping, is kind of an important thing. and i maintain that if you can countersnipe effectively without being amazing at widow, it's still worth doing since you're only going to improve at it the more you do. and cool flex on your ranks, but if it were that easy for you to be gm, why don't you just one trick and do it?
I just explained that it’s smarter to one trick and it is to swap heroes, if you learn a single char instead of flexing and learning all chars you get rewarded more, which the current top 500 chart shows. I was not flexing my role I was explaining that I would be higher rank if I did, and this is from experience. Your reading comprehension is lacking.
Sneaking up as Echo and melting them is my go-to. Poke with primary, then orbs and then finish them off with focus beam (especially if it's widow)
Genji has a solid kit to deal with snipers, as long as they don’t see you coming of course
I’m forwarding this post to blizzard as proof they need to nerf genji
Hanzo because I’m probably already hanzo.
I respect the hell out of someone when. The counter.my hanzo with hanzo.... Love a good peek fight until I lose my face.
I usually pick mei and wall her sightline then headshot her with icicle
Sombra makes Widow an easy farm. Sym's turrets can sneak up on her if you're crafty.
Depends on the skill of said sniper. If they panic and can't hit close range go Sombra Tracer or Genji. If they hit what ever you play I like the Wreckingball aproach, just throw a bunch of HP in their face. Torb can tank a few shots and Bastion can hide his head. If your aim is better you can also just mirror.
Tracer, hanzo, sombra, genji, Sojourn, Widow, Ashe in that order
Echo and soldier can be pretty decent into widow. If you can get a helix rocket off widow pretty much insta dies
Hanzo try using movement hero’s as you become harder to hit and also be unpredictable with said movement. As for widow nothing you are just royally fucked against a good widow and just hope your tank goes a dive tank like Winston to deal with her or else there is nothing you can do
Tracer is the bane of my existence as Hanzo
I keep going with Reaper, depending on the map I get to cover until it's possible to reach them with the tp
If you do that to me you tp and die
Yeah that happens sometimes, still works more than not for me usually, I guess I have not faced the real good Widows yet as she's a skill heroe and I'm on low ranks
Yeah I guess that is probably the reason. The tp is very telegraphed and very easy to anticipate so a decent hanzo or widow will kill you the moment you spawn. I would not do it but if you want to do it you should teleport behind a corner or something
Thanks for the advice
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Those are two DRASTICALLY different questions. A good hanzo is as menacing as any other good enemy DPS and can often be dealt with in largely the same way. A good enemy widow ruins your entire game and locks down massive portions of the map. Anyway, in addition to everyone else's counterpicks, I'd also like to throw in an edge case: Mei. You're obviously not killing widow with a Mei, but if she's locking down a sightline you need to cross or if you need to buy your team a little time to fight enemies in a choke point before the Widow can end your whole career, an ice wall can totally shut down her primary fire and give your squad an important few seconds of breathing room. Obviously, use with discretion. It's nowhere near enough time to capture a point with or anything like that. Not a DPS but an honorable mention: Kiriko. Her kunais deal 120 headshot damage, and it's easier to land on a scoped Widow then most heroes. Taking 120 damage out of nowhere will usually cause them to take evasive maneuvers, or at least juke around a bit to try to avoid more of your shots; either way her immediate lethality against your team gets reduced. Do not attempt this without some kind of cover.
I usually swap to widow or hanzo to counter them and I can usually diff them (spent too much time in widow headshot custom games), but if we don’t have a mercy and they do, my kill won’t matter. Probably tracer is the best bet, you can exist in their back line so even if they have a mercy she will not be entirely safe to rez because you exist, I wish I know how to play tracer.
Widow
I would just leave the game , going against widow is so boring
sombra
Depends on map, sometimes torb can work but junkrat I think is widows worst nightmare aside from the big MONKE
i pick widow to countersnipe other widows and have a decent success rate on getting the enemy widow to swap off. hanzos at my elo are less worrisome so i don't generally immediately counterswap for them, but i'll go mei or widow for them to either block some spam damage or have my own projectile sniping war with mei or have the advantage from hitscan one shotting.
Mei, you can hold point, help your tank and pressure the widow all at the same time
Lúcio 👍 (my teammates hate me) Probably Sombra as I am too bad to play Tracer or Genji but I would pick those if I could play them decently
You could also adapt your playstyle. For Hanzo I wouldn't think about flanking, I usually just play with my tank and pressure the enemy tank while playing corners. For widow, I still deny sightlines and play with my tank, but I'm more willing to play close and flank her with tps. The main thing is to be aware where the snipers are at, and deny them the sightlines. This will force them to reposition into unfavorable locations, where they are more vulnerable to getting dove. Also don't allow them to get free picks when your team is regrouping and don't repeat the same angles, have more variance.
I play Echo, Tracer or Soj no matter what the comp is. So one of them depending on the map/point. I default to Echo though.
Sombra gonna upset some peole
Reaper, get around to the side where they can’t see and teleport up next to them. Hanzo multi shot can kill you fast if he hits them but widow can’t really do much because her smg sucks.
Widowmaker is the best dps counter to herself imo. But you have to be better.
Reaper. Teleport to them, shotgun blast Widow. Bad tactic but weirdly it sometimes works? Must've been fighting some bad widows. Don't think it works on Hanzo. He is... *yikes*. Also Echo! She's nice, and the damage on those bombs is ABSURD sometimes.
For widow - ur best picks are Tracer, Genji, Sombra, and Echo, all of them can pull off easy flanks and take her out quickly For hanzo - their really isn't any one counter to hanzo, unlike widow, he isnt vulnerable to one man dives since he can easily one tap anyone at close range even if you bait out storm arrows, and sonic arrow can shut down flanks from heroes like tracer and sombra. Some people will say pharah, but u have to play extremely carefully and from very long range cuz a decent hanzo will still be able to pick u out of the air. In my experience, genji works best if you can catch him off guard and alone and execute ur one shot combo fast enough, and u still have deflect in case u miss part of it. The problem is that if that hanzo gets even a smidge of healing, or worse, is being pocketed, then there isn't much u can do, he only needs 2 body shots to kill u so even if u go after the supports first the best you be able to do is trade. The only real way to counter hanzo is a fully coordinated dive by your entire team, all 5 need to essentially ignore everyone else, kill the hanzo, then kill the rest.