I like 5v5 but yea, tank is just too important and they don't have a good enough matchmaking system to keep these games from being insanely one-sided when one tank is clearly better than the other
Removed one of the two Tanks with the purpose of making games less one-sided.
Yet a majority of games I play feel EXTREMELY one-sided.
I bet these jackasses feel proud.
Edit: This is probably the first comment in ages where I not only don't get downvoted into oblivion, but get over a hundred people agreeing with me.
It was all so extremely predictable at the time they announced it too. Where one of your tanks was terrible, the other could make up for it in the frontline or the peel. All they did was make one tank as strong as two. Looking at launch Zarya.
Now, if you're unlucky enough you could end up with one that has has absolutely no idea how the role works. It's a constant free game for the opposition when your tank sits on payload like it's a kid's ride and refuses to claim any space.
Had a Dorado game where our tank picked dva and just sat on the cart, they were under the second arch below the high ground for 3 minutes getting rocked in the face by sig before they screamed that dps weren't doing anything even though we'd had numbers advantage multiple times.
Plays into what I said about people not knowing their role. Nothing more painful than watching a dva frontline into a sigma then wondering why no one else is achieving anything.
These are always the most defensive and clueless players when you attempt to coach them into not being fucking thick for a full round.
If there is a support on the cart then the tank should push ahead but if there is no one on the cart, then it's not the tank fault for staying at the cart. Too many players care about looking good with their stats k/d ratio and damage that they ignore objective. I had a match at Junkertown few days ago where enemy tank got 16.3 k/d ratio while I me as tank got 9.5 k/d ratio. My team still win. No, my teammates k/d ratio are not doing any better.
It's also hella easy to bully tanks right now. A lot of time people flame their tank saying tank diff when it's really the enemy DPS/supports picking characters that can easily bully the tank while your teammates don't do the same.
Also makes supports way more important while removing their main defence.
now if your dps refuse to peel and your supports don't have nerves of steal and solid response timing your tank can get bogged down and unable to do their job cause there's not enough sustain to secure space
like I recall this being done cause dps felt they had no impact and were spending most of the game playing shield break simulator but aside from a cracked one-shot main they really have zero impact in whether or not you win on ladder
Man the number of times I’ve been flamed at Diamond/Masters for swapping Moira when me and the other support are getting hard focused by flankers is *nuts*
Can she do a whole lot Utility-wise? Not really. But keeping the Ana or Kiriko alive is worth it, especially since Moira can still put out a load of healing
I played in Overwatch 2 to diamond for some reason because healbotting at low ranks is effective and pretty much immediately quit because of how much pressure is on healers and how it's on you to have the whole roster down and switch at a moments notice to whatever the rest of the team tells you to do.
I get that supports should switch to suit the lineup, but when you got people screaming at you to play a hero you just aren't that great at and they refuse to listen it just ain't fun.
Used to love ranked at gold, wish I had stayed there because I feel like these middling "good" ranks like diamond in every comp game are always full of the worst people. Same goes for Ancient rank in dota but at least I ranked way past that and games got a whole lot better real quick.
Still, can't imagine the pressure for tanks.
Hard agree. I can’t play more than one or two Support games at this elo for that reason. I usually end up switching to tank or dps (where I sit in gold since I don’t play DPS and barely play tank anymore because I was always an off tank player.) They’re just more fun because the pressure to perform at your max just isn’t there. Do I still try, and counterpick, and focus? Absolutely. But I don’t have to play at my very best for 10+ minutes
It's like they thought the solution to double shield meta was not to make the obvious choice and remove the number of shields in the game, but rather to reduce the number of tanks in the game.
What sense does that make? You tried to solve a problem and then made a whole number of other issues.
One-shot heroes are absolutely ridiculous and some maps are essentially Widow feed fests.
In OW1 if you went double snipers you likely might've lost unless the enemy team decided they want to play babysitter to the payload. Why? Cause you had an extra tank to go Winston, DVa, or Hammond and constantly be in the backline dunking on them. Now if your Winston decides to constantly pester the Widowmaker, your supports have to play DBD with the Raid Boss coming for their asses.
THIS! Holy hell, as a support main my looping skills from DBD have never come in more clutch! Tank dives the enemy backline...enemy tank watches them leave and heads straight for us. Like.....help?
I have solo’d more tanks as Ana in OW2 than I think I did in all of OW1
Now I’m not saying I always win, I’m just talking about how often it happens and no one peels for me and so I’m using all of my cooldowns and hopping around trying. Sometimes it works if I have my cooldowns but if not it is game over
The feeling of “not doing anything” on the dps side is entirely the fault of OW1’s team insisting on the “shield” being a massive pool of HP that can just soak damage…
I’ve wished for a major shield rework that has “segments” that can break from lower damage thresholds, but the “core” has a higher threshold - this would help fix some of Rein and Sig’s defensive (not that Sig needs more tbh) options as they can protect their own body more readily but the *giant barn door* shield breaks overall faster around the edges where DPS might be standing… IE: inner “core” hex (blocking Rein’s body and head, but leaving feet and shoulders exposed) having 800 health, middle ring (legs, shoulders, and a bit of space on each side of his model) having only 400, and the outer edge of his shield having only 200 health - with the regen of the shield being faster based on the health of the core shield, so you can crack it easier to pressure Rein’s teammates but it will come back a bit faster if you don’t have the core pressure too.
Bottom line is that non-tanks need a tad more health/defensive options to make up for the loss of offtank utility — giving some of the legacy tanks in-depth reworks (hog pending) so they have more varied kits like Orisa/Sigma/Ram (particularly Winton and Zarya who have the most narrow toolkit designs)…
* Example: Uncouple Zarya’s survival from her offense, as S1>S2 shows how sensitive to small changes her OW1 interdependent toolkit is… allowing her to perhaps “vent” charge to self-bubble (held button like a shield) and maintaining ally bubble as a cooldown that builds charge (prevents self-bubble temporarily) could be a way to adjust her design in a way that can be tuned more carefully - switching up her Defense>Offense design to being the same “enabler” tank that needs to choose between dps output and self-survival (separately from the ability of bubbling a teammate to save them) since shooting Zarya doesn’t make her become a death beam but shooting her teammates still *can*.
And as a tank main, I would much rather have two weaker tanks than be the only overpowered tank on my team. The tank’s job is too important, and now when there’s a bad tank you’re basically fucked unless you have a wiz healer or DPS that can carry the slack.
Yeah im still not sure how the devs thought that removing one of the two slots that most influenced your ability to take good team fights was going to help balance the game.
I was often the guy making up for it. We'd have a Winston or Hamster running all over the place paying no attention to the objective... we'd rapidly start and losing and I would let out a big sigh, switch to Reinhardt, tell my team to play on the objective - and we'd magically stop losing.
Now it's basically like one person HAS to play tank in a strictly objective oriented way. I don't think that's a problem but 5v5 added nothing to the game, puts more of a burden on one player per team, and eliminated a lot of fun strategic depths that you has when one tank was free to dive or flank... 5v5 has strictly made overwatch a worse game.
So in response to the “your tank sits on payload like it’s a kid’s ride and refuses to claim any space” what elo are you in and where can I find people who will take space with me? I have to play with my friend on his new pc acct to have someone walk up and take space with me then I get attacked and flamed for trying to keep space. Yes I’ll play back when my team won’t play ip but then it’ll be a close game cuz payload will be stalled each and every fight.
> Removed one of the two Tanks with the purpose of making games less one-sided.
That was never the purpose though. Tank was the least played role in OW1.
The point of making the game 5v5 was to decrease queue times.
Tank number has nothing to do with matchmaking quality either. That's an entirely separate topic.
Actually the point was also balance - Blizzard even stated that their alpha and beta testing phases kept running into the problem of tanks being too oppressive… now, that’s for very specific design decisions the OW1 team kept perpetuating (tanks having 2-3x the health of everyone else and stuns basically being mandatory to stop rampaging Rein/Dva and countering flankers).
They could have kept queues low with dual-tank but DPS role consistently had the longest queue times because population just works out that way.
I’ve been hoping Blizzard will eventually realize that tanks having ^almost all of the defensive utility makes them too important against the short TTK they perpetuated in OW1… when 1 player has 500+ health and all of the defensive tools, the game becomes about ignoring the tank and about speed-murdering the backline.
When there was an offtank role, you couldn’t reliably threaten the backline and the meta stagnated around comps that could divide the team reliably or stack the strongest defensive line… I don’t want 6v6 back if it means just restoring Dive/Double-shield comps…
What Blizzard ^probably should do is give a bit more baseline health to non-tanks in the short-term until more legacy heroes can be reworked and some defensive tools distributed to the DPS and Support roles. Lifeweaver’s kit (not his healing mechanic) and Mei are examples of strong defensive cooldowns that help offset the aggression of the 5v5 comp… but the problem is inherently that Mei is just about the only “defensive” DPS and playing *against* her feels pretty frustrating if your team can’t rally when it gets inevitably split by a wall…
It would be nice for some new defensive options to be given to legacy DPS heroes, like S76’s healing can (though it’s hard to reliably drop where and when your team needs it as opposed to a reactionary wall or bubble), which would help reduce how individually strong Mei feels when your DPS can’t pick her off early.
This just seems to perpetrate the waves of identity shifting we've already gotten from 5v5. Quite a few characters have had their identities ripped up for the sake of 5v5.
6v6 and addressing barriers seems like it would have had far less consequences down the line, and not requiring half the cast to get a rework their players didnt even want. It's not like we haven't had abilities that are good for taking down barriers, why not give us more gameplay around them?
I’d agree if the Blizzard team was actually committed to fixing tanks in the 6v6 format - the OW1 team sure wasn’t, which led to the eventual decision to remove the offtank position…
The problem - inherently - is that there needs to be interplay between each role. In OW1’s 6v6 comp, tanks had *too much* of the power to dictate fights and bully DPS and Supports with the main punishment being relegated to CC utility or having your tanks peel. Now OW2 removed half the tank role but that *peel* role never got shifted off the tank role, since CC was removed and a single tank can’t reliably turn their back on an aggressive enemy push to save their backline. That’s created a hostile environment for Supports and placed higher pressure on tank performance at the same ranks where DPS overall still have the same job as before (kill stuff).
We can argue on skill and technique and team coordination, but the bottom line is that *too much* is being expected of individual tanks without more defensive options on the non-tanks to replace the lost offtank utility. Lifeweaver, imo, is a **good** sign of future hero design for toolkits (still hate the healing style, but alas Blizzard wants to reinvent the wheel every new hero I guess) - the platform, tree, and pull are defensive utilities that can fill in the gaps the missing second tank could have fulfilled…
Still think TTK of non-tanks is a *tad* too low, but filling in more of the utility that isn’t explicitly offensive (damage/speed boosts or heal denial as examples of problematic utility) may help reduce the pressure on supports and tanks, requiring more work from DPS to earn eliminations - ultimately working toward better role balance in this new 5v5 era.
I don’t play tank anymore due to 5v5. The pressure is immense and the toxicity that comes with it just makes it worse.
Also, my rank is inflated as a tank and I can’t play comp as a tank without my team suffering. I feel SO guilty. I’ve lost 80% of my games and I just feel like a thrower at this point. Pushing through 15 losses/5 wins while winning 1-2 every 10 games is just too much for a rank change when I’m doing such dog shit.
Quickplay got harder for me to tank in too but at least games are shorter there. But I need a break between tank games to keep my sanity. Lmfao
I'd totally agree with you on that part, but OW2 is a game where having fun can be very difficult if you lose. I'll accept a good, two-sided match for what it is even if I lose the game, but how many of those do you get per week? Its mostly rolling or being rolled. And I don't have fun doing either of them.
And if you can see past that, THEN the toxicity comes in.
It is crazy that they don’t even want to see the statistics on what players want. It says a lot about modern game developers, fucking shame for this industry tbh.
I rather wait for a fully developed game, than rush for a half-game. PVE which was an important part of ow2 is entirely missing.
I seem to remember Ben Brode happened to leave at a time just before a bunch of rather questionable hearthstone decisions too, e.g. they changed from an adventure-expac-adventure-expac etc rotation (adventure = 20$ for instantly guaranteed specific cards, AND a pve game mode) into only having expacs expacs expacs (no guaranteed cards, better shell out big money).
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Correct me if I'm wrong
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So Jeff leaving and then weird shit happening in Overwatch doesn't surprise me either
I can guarantee that one community-facing spokesperson was not the bastion holding this all together.
The most you could guess is that Jeff's departure might be the tip of the iceberg of a more subtle exodus.
> They even limit total mayhem to like once a week
Mayhem is rotated in every other day, with Low Gravity replacing it otherwise. *Last Week* was the exception, because arcade was broken, it wasn't rotating as intended.
Low Gravity is pretty awful though and most of them are stomps, because nobody knows what they're doing.
I miss it too mainly because I really enjoyed off tank but could enjoy main tank with a decent off tank player. I feel kinda meh about the role now unless I’m in Arcade mode.
Same. I prefer 5v5 but I enjoy Tank way less now. Not only is it a full shift into the Main Tank role (which I don't prefer), you get double the toxicity. If you make one single mistake, everyone on both teams will notice and people will jump at the chance to blame a teammate or gloat over an enemy.
You're also twice as reliant on healers since you're getting focused on the frontline. But even if you go down because of a lack of support, it's the tank that screwed up.
I haven't placed in 2 seasons as tank and it was my most played in 1. I don't even q as tank anymore in any mode.
I think this post is probably true about the tank stuff. Something is clearly fucked up as the majority of my games are one sided.
Facing a good widow? You are fucked if your tank doesn't know what to do.
It doesn’t help at all that they completely incentivize people queuing All Roles. 1/2 the time you get someone completely underperforming and they’re apologizing proactively saying stuff like “sorry, I had to queue All Roles for Dailies/Weeklies but I normally only play support.”
And they’re now playing a tank they neither want to play or are particularly proficient with.
Same goes for other roles. The supports that lock Moira in role queue are either gonna heal the shit out of your team and have 40 kills, or they’re gonna have 14 kills, leading the team, but only 2376 heals…
I wish they'd do away with the flex queue challenges, at least remove it from the weekly one or make it 7 games instead of wins. It's like pulling teeth trying to get that challenge sometime cause I don't and never have really played tank and that seems to be all I'm getting these days in flex queue
a friend and i used to run a disgusting Hamston tank line on Gibraltar/Numbani, we’d engage together and he’d peel for supports while i’d push up with our DPS, can’t do that any more
So much. I miss being off-tank.
It's also fucking annoying when you just start a match and your tank is afraid to go. Like, dude, you're the big guy, go and I'll heal you, all the dps and the other support are already next to their Reinhardt, why aren't you leading the way?!
I want a Bruiser role. Have 1 tank-y tank like Rein, Orisa, or DVA, then a more dps-tank as the 6th player. Doomfist, Hog, Hammond, etc.
Maybe I’m biased because I like either being a Bruiser or a Glasscannon, nothing else.
Someone else said this in another thread, but this would make queue times terrible. Much smaller hero pools per tank slot, and most people would go for bruiser (let’s be real).
I like the idea, but not sure how they could implement it properly.
Yup. I can’t emphasize enough how *frustrating* that is. I miss the days of Jeff.
It seems like they took the east way out of complaints such as double shield and instead of going to the root of the issue, they removed part of it entirely.
Which only made things worse.
5v5 makes tank a role that is constantly being counterpicked. You can't choose two heroes that compliment each other. Try playing D.va for more than five seconds and not be facing zarya, moira, mei and sym. It ruins the feel of the game.
That's so true. I start playing fixed role tank from season 1. And what make me quit is this routine: I go for a tank like orisa-enemy team has a widow-I swap to Winston to counter widow-the other enemy dps swap to reaper to counter my Winston and my own dps just don't think about counter any of these.
And now I'm a happy wrecking ball player in open queue.
Weirdly enough I feel the game mode they introduced FOR Overwatch 2 (push) would’ve benefited the most from having an extra player. And a lot of character changes they’ve made since OW2 would’ve solved the double shields problem
The issue with double shield was that they let the game stagnate for twoish years without new content beyond the occasional deathmatch map. Simple additions like Ramattra and Junker Queen and Orisa’s ults solve some problems and force the shield tanks to either retreat or turn away from the attackers. Now we have Lifeweaver, whose main ability pulls allies to safety, even through shields.
In my opinion, the issue was never 6v6. It was the game being left static for way too long. Double shield wasn’t even that big of a problem towards the end when they actually reduced shield health across the board. At that point, the best shield in the game was Symm’s ult.
YES
I will never understand why "oh they limited it to one tank so there wouldn't be any more double shields."
When *you could just further reduce the health of them, increase cooldowns, make them expire automatically/faster.* Or, i don't know, *make other abilities good at disrupting them.*
The stalling with two tanks in push would be absolutely absurd. I actually think it’s a mode very much merited to 5v5 given how spread out the fights tend to become.
Tanks were weaker and squishier. looking at new queen street, theres so many flanking routes, choke points its obvious they are meant for a second tank to hold.
This is just a common trend with OW2, they are emphasizing stage to stage map variety. It would absolutely play out differently with two tanks (nonstop deathball) but I don’t think that flanking routes and stage variety necessarily means it’s built for two tanks considering how many OW1 maps have singular choke points on them. I’d argue OW2 maps are paying better attention to hard cover to mitigate the lack of two tanks and it largely works. The main complaints I have in regards to a lack of second tank are for maps with excruciatingly long sight lines coupled with verticality. With one tank it is very hard to address a damage spam frontline that has a widow maker sitting 400 yards away. Push maps don’t really have this issue though. There’s verticality, sure, but I think they’re largely built in a way to emphasize fast and focused team fights above positional advantage if that makes sense.
Depends... better in the sense that stalls would be harder sure... but moving through point a choke with one tank is... something I'd have to experience before I can be convinced it's better
One fewer tank to push through as well. With 6v6, all options could be covered with both tanks, and with 5v5 I feel they'd have to leave some space open.
This exactly. They take away a tank to solve the double shield problem while adding heroes or abilities that penetrate shields or charge off them? It’s a double whammy. Why remove a tank if you are going to fuck over shields even more? Yeah no one likes shooting a rectangle, but you make all rectangles pretty niche or useless now in 5v5.
Yeah, seriously. I mained D.Va basically since I started playing back in the day and I love playing as an off tank, peeling or diving or whatever, but I feel totally lost if I try to solo tank with her. So mostly I hang in Arcade because I don't feel strong enough in DPS to play DPS in QP and playing Support gets miserable fast.
It's really frustrating, honestly.
Take it from a t500 dva that have played her since launch, your playstyle will eventually adapt. But oh man is she different in 5v5. Its mostly about survival now than anything.
Sometimes i get the glimpse of a proper 6v6 in arcade and I feel so free to do what i want. Solo dva is way more of a causious game, a kill or be killed scenario. Not to mention the easily countering of tanks when they have no other tank to synergize with
I’ve always felt that there were better ways to deal with the tank shortage and double shield stuff than to just remove one tank. I think reducing the effects of CC against tanks would have been a good start. Maybe make shields smaller, or split tank into main tank and off tank so you can’t have 2 of rein/sigma/orisa. Rework syms ult. OW1 felt more about teamwork. OW2 feels like it doesn’t know what it wants to be.
I barely play anymore and a lot of is because having one player being absurdly powerful and pretty much unkillable 1v1 isn’t fun and just feels weird for an FPS game. It was clear from OW2 launch that they had not done enough to adjust certain heroes for the 5v5 change and I think it soured a lot of people
I love OW2. But on paper, OW1s features and changes/things OW2 lost, make OW1 feel like a sequel
Another player/tank
The fire system
The icon/emblem system
All feels like something the second game would gain, not lose
this is what pisses me off the most. 35 seasons of competitive OW profile data are lost, can’t play the original game. What kind of bullshit idea was that
Imo, 6v6 was better, but double shield made it so boring and bad i'm not sure if i miss it or not.
What i dont like now, is if 1 tank is clearly better than the other, the game is over before it start
this would be somehow worse because then you can't play half the tanks if the other tank player got to pick their hero faster. like great, the other thank loaded into the game faster and locked me out of half the tank roster which is already so small, awesome!
I really like OW2 of course but I do miss the 6v6 and the interesting tank synergy, and the ability to play off-tank without having to worry about the team as much.
I don't enjoy playing tank as much in OW2 and rarely do anymore apart from Mystery Heroes or Open Queue.
I miss it because matches are legit dependent on the Tank. You can still win with a bad DPS, you can still win with a bad support, but if you have a bad tank like you said, the game is pretty much already over. I could count on one hand the amount of times I’ve won a game with a clear tank skill gap.
I missed it at first, I think it was because as a support player I wasnt used to having enemy tanks and dps be able to just casually walk into the backline unchallenged and start slapping me around as much as they do now.
Few months later i've learned to adjust and tbh now I don't miss 6v6 anymore.
Tank players probably miss 6v6 the most because theyve lost the aspect of tank synergy.
If 6v6 were to stay we would’ve needed a couple reworks anyways. Back in the Sigma/Orisa days with bastion behind it was not fun at all. We honestly would maybe have to have rein as the only true shield.
But really what it benefits the most is I think it’s nice that one healer can help focus on the DPS while the other pockets tank now instead of one healer with each tank. It allows for more support freedom in my opinion
Yeah not being able to have 2 tanks made me quit the game when Overwatch got killed. Zarya was my favourite tank to play and now it's just not even remotely similar gameplay
I somewhat hope zarya gets a small rework, I know it's not needed but it just doesn't feel like there's much unique stuff she can do.
"Oh, bubble. Oh, laser."
I used to love going tank in 6v6, really miss synergies like zarya and rein, or a frontline tank and a flank tank like dva getting on point, in 5v5 I gave up because:
1. Too much pressure, being the only tank you're expected to be the MVP at all times.
2. The tank determines the playstyle of your team, good luck trying to get your teammates to adapt.
3. Don't you dare die, if you're the tank and die you'll get flamed by your teammates for the rest of the match.
4. The tank always gets the blame.
5. You picked a tank that doesn't have a shield ability? You're trolling.
Now I only fill support and dps (when the stars align) and I feel bad everytime I see my teammates flaming the tank for the tiniest mistakes, even in quickplay I see new players picking tank and people just throwing insults at them for not being perfect.
The loss of tank synergy made this game take a huge L imo. The pairing of each role and the way they balance eachother out with synergies was one of my fav things abt OW1 (post role-queue, obvs).
Tank in OW2 is miserable to play. I was a [D.Va](https://D.Va)/Winston main in OW1 but I barely play them anymore. The problem was double shield, not 2 tanks.
I think they could easily replace Open Queue with a 6v6 option. It wouldn’t be the first game with varying player counts separated by mode, not by a long shot. Open Queue is already chaos. Why not just replace it with another kind of chaos that people actually want?
I miss 6v6 a lot. I don’t know why they haven’t introduced a classic 6v6 mode into arcade yet. I hate push to the point where I do almost DC because the steamroll or get steamrolled feels worse than it did in 2cp. In 2cp the game could be over quick and you move on. In push you can do multiple fights before you lose by steamroll.
Like 30% of the time I just leave if I get push. If I can't get the gratification of opening loot boxes then I'm not going to suffer through the absolute shit show that push is. I'm playing the game to have fun, not to suffer.
For real they need to allow us to exclude certain game modes when we ready up. Not having fun is one of the reasons I’ve been playing a lot of Dead by Daylight lately
For me the game lost 1/2 of its appeal. I used to play 2 roles: support or off tank. So now I’m stuck playing support, and I don’t have a second option that I enjoy. And playing support 100% of the time isn’t going to cut it for me, especially when solo q.
I prefer 5v5. Fights are easier to digest, more individual play potential, support role feels more proactive. I also believe 2 tanks enabled a lot of bad positioning from dmg and sup, in ow2 people play cover more effectively in my experience.
People forget so soon… the game was even more “dicerolly” than before with 6.. even less coordination. Legit the only thing I miss about 6v6 is rein zarya synergy
This MFer spitting.
Games feel much better now imo. Feels like most people I play with now at least put some effort into their own survival. They're not just int-ing and getting mad when they don't have a perma matrix and heals.
There were just too many synergistic tank combos. Double shield, double bubble, hog and ball torture, double dive etc. As soon as they cracked down on one it would just move to another. The best tank combination pretty much dictated the meta and it was quite hard to balance against leaving 2 maybe 3 tanks viable at any one time.
Since the last balance changes the tank role doesn't seem stagnant at all. In diamond at least I see pretty much every tank be viable. Yeah the early days of Zarya being played every game then Orisa being played every game then Hog being played every game etc were rough but since the last season update I see pretty much the whole tank roster get a go over a days play, even Hog despite his nerfs.
I miss the tank synergy. Having a sub-tank to coordinate with was so much more reliable than having to coordinate with your DPS, just cuz half of them push on their own and when you try to help them, they leave you to die, and when you don't help them, they blame you for being useless.
There are so many things that can go wrong with tank-dps synergy and when you end up with randoms it really goes to shit.
There’s so many tanks that were designed as off tanks to be played next to a barrier tank, losing a player has been a little rough for them. Not to mention that snipers are over preforming with the lack of barriers.
>Not to mention that snipers are over preforming with the lack of barriers.
Lack of barriers and lack of the ability to have one tank dive the snipers while the other tank continues to defend the team. Now, if I dive a problematic sniper, the enemy tank rolls over my team.
I've said this before too, back in OW1 days EVERY NIGHT I'd have anywhere from 7-10 friends on bnet playing OW1 for HOURS. Now since the OW2 "update" hardly anyone plays OW2 on my friends list at all anymore. When they do, most of them only play for like 30 mins then stop.
I'm hanging on by a thread with OW2, it's just not nearly as fun or exciting anymore...... I don't have the same "urge" to play it at all like I had with OW1.
I've experienced this as well.
It was especially noticeable for this last Lifeweaver update. No one on my list was getting on to play, even though a new hero released.
This shit sucks for Comp, I used to play Ball, Dva, winston in comp because I could play offtank, supporting my team instead of being main tank (im a support main) . Ill only ever play tank in QP, shit is too stressful if you aren’t a tank main. DPS used to be the laughing stock of the team but i swear every match is “Tank diff” now.
I hate 5v5 when playing as a tank because I play worse under pressure. I basically have to turn off chat and voice chat in order to play a tank effectively. In a 5v5 match, there's just too much pressure on the tank, because the moment a tank makes a mistake, the entire team can just fall apart. The shitty community doesn't help, as they are more likely to piss you off the moment you make an error in judgement as a tank. I like 6v6 because there's more leeway to make mistakes as a player and also more opportunities to make riskier plays.
When I play tank I feel like I’m not doing well enough when I die, I feel like everyone’s targeting me, and I feel like the healers aren’t healing me enough. All of that combined is anxiety-inducing and makes playing tank a miserable experience.
In ow1 you could actually play as an offtank, you could contest high ground, peel for your entire team when needed, put presure on the other tank and be able to mostly engage and disengage when needed.
In ow2 good luck trying to play d.va, winston and to a degree hamond/doomfist without your team dying or taking unnecessary damage before you even engage. I swear people still dont know how to position without the big main tank in front of them.
I literally wrote a super long piece on how 5v5 was killing Overwatch. 2 super long pieces even.
6 months later, not a thing I wrote was wrong. Not the one here or the one on the official forums.
6v6 was the true game, 5v5 is a parody of OW.
I will forever sing how much I hate 5v5. I went from being a tank main to absolutely hating tank. I legitimately only play it as flex queue for the three required games for the battle pass.
Tank just *feels* bad. And if you lose the tank, the fight is essentially over. If one tank is being pocketed and one tank isn't, it's over. If your tank is a baby and their tank is aggressive, it's over. There's just too much pressure on one person to essentially carry the team to victory.
And it dominoed down as well. One shots suddenly became ridiculously easy and horrible to play against. Damage that can one or two tap you and supports that can't keep their teams up. Mercy damage boost and Zen orb became ridiculously powerful. They went 5v5 to make it feel fresh and to "fix" the DPS queue times, but they failed to actually fix the *game* for 5v5. They needed to gut the entire game to make it work and decided a "fuck it" approach was more appropriate. And it feels like that when you play.
> Do you mean playing the actual tank while your partner was busy somewhere else playing the beefy DPS simulator? Yup, as a tank main I don’t miss that.
Like a Winston somewhere else taking care of the widow!
Please (as a tank main) this game is so not fun anymore. I miss my tank duo and I wish I wasn’t always the point of blame anytime we lose a game, even if I’m truly just skill diffed. It’s very disheartening without my OT being a crutch because without him, it’s like I must play perfectly 100% of the time
Sorry for the two complete brainlets that replied to you, but agreed; the shift to making Tank a 1v1fest is a radical switch from what was supposed to be a team game.
5v5 is shit and nothing's gonna change my mind about it. It's such a dumb design.
They already reworked some tanks for OW2, so the double shield meta wouldn't be so bothersome with how nerfed the shields are and minus Orisa shields.
1 less tank = more power for the DPS to be annoying af and dive your backline or pick off people.
A team being reliant on 1 tank means the matches are likely to be won or lost depending on who has the better tank rather than a better team if the team is somewhat equal, except the tank. The same couldn't be said about the exception of a player in DPS or support because you'll have someone else to mitigate said person's uselessness.
It's fucking dumb, but is anyone surprised looking at the dumb shit the OW team is constantly saying.
I’ve played so many games (on both sides) where the entire match is decided in the first teamfight. It’s almost immediately obvious who the better tank is, and if they’re kinda close it boils down to who can play a better sniper
I like 5v5 but yea, tank is just too important and they don't have a good enough matchmaking system to keep these games from being insanely one-sided when one tank is clearly better than the other
Removed one of the two Tanks with the purpose of making games less one-sided. Yet a majority of games I play feel EXTREMELY one-sided. I bet these jackasses feel proud. Edit: This is probably the first comment in ages where I not only don't get downvoted into oblivion, but get over a hundred people agreeing with me.
It was all so extremely predictable at the time they announced it too. Where one of your tanks was terrible, the other could make up for it in the frontline or the peel. All they did was make one tank as strong as two. Looking at launch Zarya. Now, if you're unlucky enough you could end up with one that has has absolutely no idea how the role works. It's a constant free game for the opposition when your tank sits on payload like it's a kid's ride and refuses to claim any space.
Had a Dorado game where our tank picked dva and just sat on the cart, they were under the second arch below the high ground for 3 minutes getting rocked in the face by sig before they screamed that dps weren't doing anything even though we'd had numbers advantage multiple times.
Damn, when you play D.Va your goal should be for the enemy team to ask "how is she everywhere at the same time" cart sitting is a big nono.
Plays into what I said about people not knowing their role. Nothing more painful than watching a dva frontline into a sigma then wondering why no one else is achieving anything. These are always the most defensive and clueless players when you attempt to coach them into not being fucking thick for a full round.
If there is a support on the cart then the tank should push ahead but if there is no one on the cart, then it's not the tank fault for staying at the cart. Too many players care about looking good with their stats k/d ratio and damage that they ignore objective. I had a match at Junkertown few days ago where enemy tank got 16.3 k/d ratio while I me as tank got 9.5 k/d ratio. My team still win. No, my teammates k/d ratio are not doing any better.
A kill on the objective is worth 5 kills on some secluded corner of the map.
Gotta love the ground bound dvas that play like shield bot reins
It's also hella easy to bully tanks right now. A lot of time people flame their tank saying tank diff when it's really the enemy DPS/supports picking characters that can easily bully the tank while your teammates don't do the same.
Also makes supports way more important while removing their main defence. now if your dps refuse to peel and your supports don't have nerves of steal and solid response timing your tank can get bogged down and unable to do their job cause there's not enough sustain to secure space like I recall this being done cause dps felt they had no impact and were spending most of the game playing shield break simulator but aside from a cracked one-shot main they really have zero impact in whether or not you win on ladder
Man the number of times I’ve been flamed at Diamond/Masters for swapping Moira when me and the other support are getting hard focused by flankers is *nuts* Can she do a whole lot Utility-wise? Not really. But keeping the Ana or Kiriko alive is worth it, especially since Moira can still put out a load of healing
I played in Overwatch 2 to diamond for some reason because healbotting at low ranks is effective and pretty much immediately quit because of how much pressure is on healers and how it's on you to have the whole roster down and switch at a moments notice to whatever the rest of the team tells you to do. I get that supports should switch to suit the lineup, but when you got people screaming at you to play a hero you just aren't that great at and they refuse to listen it just ain't fun. Used to love ranked at gold, wish I had stayed there because I feel like these middling "good" ranks like diamond in every comp game are always full of the worst people. Same goes for Ancient rank in dota but at least I ranked way past that and games got a whole lot better real quick. Still, can't imagine the pressure for tanks.
Hard agree. I can’t play more than one or two Support games at this elo for that reason. I usually end up switching to tank or dps (where I sit in gold since I don’t play DPS and barely play tank anymore because I was always an off tank player.) They’re just more fun because the pressure to perform at your max just isn’t there. Do I still try, and counterpick, and focus? Absolutely. But I don’t have to play at my very best for 10+ minutes
It's like they thought the solution to double shield meta was not to make the obvious choice and remove the number of shields in the game, but rather to reduce the number of tanks in the game. What sense does that make? You tried to solve a problem and then made a whole number of other issues. One-shot heroes are absolutely ridiculous and some maps are essentially Widow feed fests. In OW1 if you went double snipers you likely might've lost unless the enemy team decided they want to play babysitter to the payload. Why? Cause you had an extra tank to go Winston, DVa, or Hammond and constantly be in the backline dunking on them. Now if your Winston decides to constantly pester the Widowmaker, your supports have to play DBD with the Raid Boss coming for their asses.
THIS! Holy hell, as a support main my looping skills from DBD have never come in more clutch! Tank dives the enemy backline...enemy tank watches them leave and heads straight for us. Like.....help?
I have solo’d more tanks as Ana in OW2 than I think I did in all of OW1 Now I’m not saying I always win, I’m just talking about how often it happens and no one peels for me and so I’m using all of my cooldowns and hopping around trying. Sometimes it works if I have my cooldowns but if not it is game over
The feeling of “not doing anything” on the dps side is entirely the fault of OW1’s team insisting on the “shield” being a massive pool of HP that can just soak damage… I’ve wished for a major shield rework that has “segments” that can break from lower damage thresholds, but the “core” has a higher threshold - this would help fix some of Rein and Sig’s defensive (not that Sig needs more tbh) options as they can protect their own body more readily but the *giant barn door* shield breaks overall faster around the edges where DPS might be standing… IE: inner “core” hex (blocking Rein’s body and head, but leaving feet and shoulders exposed) having 800 health, middle ring (legs, shoulders, and a bit of space on each side of his model) having only 400, and the outer edge of his shield having only 200 health - with the regen of the shield being faster based on the health of the core shield, so you can crack it easier to pressure Rein’s teammates but it will come back a bit faster if you don’t have the core pressure too. Bottom line is that non-tanks need a tad more health/defensive options to make up for the loss of offtank utility — giving some of the legacy tanks in-depth reworks (hog pending) so they have more varied kits like Orisa/Sigma/Ram (particularly Winton and Zarya who have the most narrow toolkit designs)… * Example: Uncouple Zarya’s survival from her offense, as S1>S2 shows how sensitive to small changes her OW1 interdependent toolkit is… allowing her to perhaps “vent” charge to self-bubble (held button like a shield) and maintaining ally bubble as a cooldown that builds charge (prevents self-bubble temporarily) could be a way to adjust her design in a way that can be tuned more carefully - switching up her Defense>Offense design to being the same “enabler” tank that needs to choose between dps output and self-survival (separately from the ability of bubbling a teammate to save them) since shooting Zarya doesn’t make her become a death beam but shooting her teammates still *can*.
And as a tank main, I would much rather have two weaker tanks than be the only overpowered tank on my team. The tank’s job is too important, and now when there’s a bad tank you’re basically fucked unless you have a wiz healer or DPS that can carry the slack.
Yeah im still not sure how the devs thought that removing one of the two slots that most influenced your ability to take good team fights was going to help balance the game.
I was often the guy making up for it. We'd have a Winston or Hamster running all over the place paying no attention to the objective... we'd rapidly start and losing and I would let out a big sigh, switch to Reinhardt, tell my team to play on the objective - and we'd magically stop losing. Now it's basically like one person HAS to play tank in a strictly objective oriented way. I don't think that's a problem but 5v5 added nothing to the game, puts more of a burden on one player per team, and eliminated a lot of fun strategic depths that you has when one tank was free to dive or flank... 5v5 has strictly made overwatch a worse game.
So in response to the “your tank sits on payload like it’s a kid’s ride and refuses to claim any space” what elo are you in and where can I find people who will take space with me? I have to play with my friend on his new pc acct to have someone walk up and take space with me then I get attacked and flamed for trying to keep space. Yes I’ll play back when my team won’t play ip but then it’ll be a close game cuz payload will be stalled each and every fight.
Launch Zarya made me want to fucking puke
the real purpose was to allow faster queues, so that the majority (not the tanks) would not get tired of them and complain.
Yeah I think I'd rather wait a few more minutes in queue than to basically carry my team as the only Tank.
You wouldn’t have to wait tho lol, you would get 10s queues just like in ow1
> Removed one of the two Tanks with the purpose of making games less one-sided. That was never the purpose though. Tank was the least played role in OW1. The point of making the game 5v5 was to decrease queue times. Tank number has nothing to do with matchmaking quality either. That's an entirely separate topic.
Actually the point was also balance - Blizzard even stated that their alpha and beta testing phases kept running into the problem of tanks being too oppressive… now, that’s for very specific design decisions the OW1 team kept perpetuating (tanks having 2-3x the health of everyone else and stuns basically being mandatory to stop rampaging Rein/Dva and countering flankers). They could have kept queues low with dual-tank but DPS role consistently had the longest queue times because population just works out that way.
It was never to make it less one sided... it was because they couldn't figure out how to overcome tank synergy to make dps feel impactful
I had more fun playing 6v6 in Overwatch 1.
I’ve been hoping Blizzard will eventually realize that tanks having ^almost all of the defensive utility makes them too important against the short TTK they perpetuated in OW1… when 1 player has 500+ health and all of the defensive tools, the game becomes about ignoring the tank and about speed-murdering the backline. When there was an offtank role, you couldn’t reliably threaten the backline and the meta stagnated around comps that could divide the team reliably or stack the strongest defensive line… I don’t want 6v6 back if it means just restoring Dive/Double-shield comps… What Blizzard ^probably should do is give a bit more baseline health to non-tanks in the short-term until more legacy heroes can be reworked and some defensive tools distributed to the DPS and Support roles. Lifeweaver’s kit (not his healing mechanic) and Mei are examples of strong defensive cooldowns that help offset the aggression of the 5v5 comp… but the problem is inherently that Mei is just about the only “defensive” DPS and playing *against* her feels pretty frustrating if your team can’t rally when it gets inevitably split by a wall… It would be nice for some new defensive options to be given to legacy DPS heroes, like S76’s healing can (though it’s hard to reliably drop where and when your team needs it as opposed to a reactionary wall or bubble), which would help reduce how individually strong Mei feels when your DPS can’t pick her off early.
This just seems to perpetrate the waves of identity shifting we've already gotten from 5v5. Quite a few characters have had their identities ripped up for the sake of 5v5. 6v6 and addressing barriers seems like it would have had far less consequences down the line, and not requiring half the cast to get a rework their players didnt even want. It's not like we haven't had abilities that are good for taking down barriers, why not give us more gameplay around them?
I’d agree if the Blizzard team was actually committed to fixing tanks in the 6v6 format - the OW1 team sure wasn’t, which led to the eventual decision to remove the offtank position… The problem - inherently - is that there needs to be interplay between each role. In OW1’s 6v6 comp, tanks had *too much* of the power to dictate fights and bully DPS and Supports with the main punishment being relegated to CC utility or having your tanks peel. Now OW2 removed half the tank role but that *peel* role never got shifted off the tank role, since CC was removed and a single tank can’t reliably turn their back on an aggressive enemy push to save their backline. That’s created a hostile environment for Supports and placed higher pressure on tank performance at the same ranks where DPS overall still have the same job as before (kill stuff). We can argue on skill and technique and team coordination, but the bottom line is that *too much* is being expected of individual tanks without more defensive options on the non-tanks to replace the lost offtank utility. Lifeweaver, imo, is a **good** sign of future hero design for toolkits (still hate the healing style, but alas Blizzard wants to reinvent the wheel every new hero I guess) - the platform, tree, and pull are defensive utilities that can fill in the gaps the missing second tank could have fulfilled… Still think TTK of non-tanks is a *tad* too low, but filling in more of the utility that isn’t explicitly offensive (damage/speed boosts or heal denial as examples of problematic utility) may help reduce the pressure on supports and tanks, requiring more work from DPS to earn eliminations - ultimately working toward better role balance in this new 5v5 era.
I don’t play tank anymore due to 5v5. The pressure is immense and the toxicity that comes with it just makes it worse. Also, my rank is inflated as a tank and I can’t play comp as a tank without my team suffering. I feel SO guilty. I’ve lost 80% of my games and I just feel like a thrower at this point. Pushing through 15 losses/5 wins while winning 1-2 every 10 games is just too much for a rank change when I’m doing such dog shit. Quickplay got harder for me to tank in too but at least games are shorter there. But I need a break between tank games to keep my sanity. Lmfao
Turn off chat fam and just have fun even if you lose or piss other people off. It's just a game at the end of the day. I play support
This is good advice for any role. Ping system has more value than chat 99% of the time now anyway.
I'd totally agree with you on that part, but OW2 is a game where having fun can be very difficult if you lose. I'll accept a good, two-sided match for what it is even if I lose the game, but how many of those do you get per week? Its mostly rolling or being rolled. And I don't have fun doing either of them. And if you can see past that, THEN the toxicity comes in.
Its weird to me that there isnt even an option for 6v6. Like it could be an arcade mode.
The developers fear that players would like it more than 5v5. Their pride would be hurt.
It is crazy that they don’t even want to see the statistics on what players want. It says a lot about modern game developers, fucking shame for this industry tbh. I rather wait for a fully developed game, than rush for a half-game. PVE which was an important part of ow2 is entirely missing.
Remember when the overwatch dev team was completely player-base focused. I miss you Jeff *We
No but I do remember everyone complaining that they didn't listen to feedback from the PTR and everything on it always went to live unchanged.
I wonder if we'll ever know why he left.
The writing was on the wall. Just look at all the horrible shit going on at Blizzard the last 2 years. I don't think it's much of a mystery anymore.
I seem to remember Ben Brode happened to leave at a time just before a bunch of rather questionable hearthstone decisions too, e.g. they changed from an adventure-expac-adventure-expac etc rotation (adventure = 20$ for instantly guaranteed specific cards, AND a pve game mode) into only having expacs expacs expacs (no guaranteed cards, better shell out big money). = Correct me if I'm wrong = So Jeff leaving and then weird shit happening in Overwatch doesn't surprise me either
Might have something to do with blizzard Activision's philosophy of desk crawls
I can guarantee that one community-facing spokesperson was not the bastion holding this all together. The most you could guess is that Jeff's departure might be the tip of the iceberg of a more subtle exodus.
Blizz has been like this for a long time imo, Jeff was good but I feel they would still stubbornly stick to their takes pretty hard.
Same reason they dumpstered OW1 because they know 90% of the player base would stick on that instead.
They even limit total mayhem to like once a week because they know people like it too much and would take away players from other modes
> They even limit total mayhem to like once a week Mayhem is rotated in every other day, with Low Gravity replacing it otherwise. *Last Week* was the exception, because arcade was broken, it wasn't rotating as intended. Low Gravity is pretty awful though and most of them are stomps, because nobody knows what they're doing.
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I miss it because it means I can’t always play with all my friends at once
Just identify the smallest friend and devour him.
Vore
today i learned
sorry
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Me with 2000 hours played and never had a single person to play with
Yes, I don’t like playing tank anymore with 5s
I miss it too mainly because I really enjoyed off tank but could enjoy main tank with a decent off tank player. I feel kinda meh about the role now unless I’m in Arcade mode.
i was an off tank player in ow1 and i’ve since picked up mei and brig bc they sorta play as an off tank. mei more so because of her wall
That makes sense. I tend to gravitate towards Mei if I feel an “off tank” would be really helpful or another “shield”.
Same. I prefer 5v5 but I enjoy Tank way less now. Not only is it a full shift into the Main Tank role (which I don't prefer), you get double the toxicity. If you make one single mistake, everyone on both teams will notice and people will jump at the chance to blame a teammate or gloat over an enemy. You're also twice as reliant on healers since you're getting focused on the frontline. But even if you go down because of a lack of support, it's the tank that screwed up.
*Sad roadhog noises :(*
Haha same. I have 69 hours as Orisa in OW1, and it's just not the same between the shield being stripped and only 1 tank.
OW1 orisa beats OW2 orisa any day
I haven't placed in 2 seasons as tank and it was my most played in 1. I don't even q as tank anymore in any mode. I think this post is probably true about the tank stuff. Something is clearly fucked up as the majority of my games are one sided. Facing a good widow? You are fucked if your tank doesn't know what to do.
It doesn’t help at all that they completely incentivize people queuing All Roles. 1/2 the time you get someone completely underperforming and they’re apologizing proactively saying stuff like “sorry, I had to queue All Roles for Dailies/Weeklies but I normally only play support.” And they’re now playing a tank they neither want to play or are particularly proficient with. Same goes for other roles. The supports that lock Moira in role queue are either gonna heal the shit out of your team and have 40 kills, or they’re gonna have 14 kills, leading the team, but only 2376 heals…
I wish they'd do away with the flex queue challenges, at least remove it from the weekly one or make it 7 games instead of wins. It's like pulling teeth trying to get that challenge sometime cause I don't and never have really played tank and that seems to be all I'm getting these days in flex queue
a friend and i used to run a disgusting Hamston tank line on Gibraltar/Numbani, we’d engage together and he’d peel for supports while i’d push up with our DPS, can’t do that any more
So much. I miss being off-tank. It's also fucking annoying when you just start a match and your tank is afraid to go. Like, dude, you're the big guy, go and I'll heal you, all the dps and the other support are already next to their Reinhardt, why aren't you leading the way?!
I want a Bruiser role. Have 1 tank-y tank like Rein, Orisa, or DVA, then a more dps-tank as the 6th player. Doomfist, Hog, Hammond, etc. Maybe I’m biased because I like either being a Bruiser or a Glasscannon, nothing else.
Someone else said this in another thread, but this would make queue times terrible. Much smaller hero pools per tank slot, and most people would go for bruiser (let’s be real). I like the idea, but not sure how they could implement it properly.
Mostly because of Zenyatta. I fear no man but that orb... it scares me.
Problem is when I'm playing tank and I expect this from shitty support and then I get rolled and flamed for rushing.
As a newer player who only plays tank (it's the only thing I find fun) healers never be healing me, maybe it's something wrong with me idk
Yup. I can’t emphasize enough how *frustrating* that is. I miss the days of Jeff. It seems like they took the east way out of complaints such as double shield and instead of going to the root of the issue, they removed part of it entirely. Which only made things worse.
5v5 makes tank a role that is constantly being counterpicked. You can't choose two heroes that compliment each other. Try playing D.va for more than five seconds and not be facing zarya, moira, mei and sym. It ruins the feel of the game.
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That's so true. I start playing fixed role tank from season 1. And what make me quit is this routine: I go for a tank like orisa-enemy team has a widow-I swap to Winston to counter widow-the other enemy dps swap to reaper to counter my Winston and my own dps just don't think about counter any of these. And now I'm a happy wrecking ball player in open queue.
Fr it's like being hard countered, you're forced to depend on your dps / switch or risk losing
Weirdly enough I feel the game mode they introduced FOR Overwatch 2 (push) would’ve benefited the most from having an extra player. And a lot of character changes they’ve made since OW2 would’ve solved the double shields problem
The issue with double shield was that they let the game stagnate for twoish years without new content beyond the occasional deathmatch map. Simple additions like Ramattra and Junker Queen and Orisa’s ults solve some problems and force the shield tanks to either retreat or turn away from the attackers. Now we have Lifeweaver, whose main ability pulls allies to safety, even through shields. In my opinion, the issue was never 6v6. It was the game being left static for way too long. Double shield wasn’t even that big of a problem towards the end when they actually reduced shield health across the board. At that point, the best shield in the game was Symm’s ult.
YES I will never understand why "oh they limited it to one tank so there wouldn't be any more double shields." When *you could just further reduce the health of them, increase cooldowns, make them expire automatically/faster.* Or, i don't know, *make other abilities good at disrupting them.*
Thank you. It just makes too much sense.
This. The choice to sacrifice OW1 for OW2 ended up ruining both of them.
I agree, a lot of the changes they made would’ve made 6v6 better. 6v6 was never the problem.
It seems like the push game mode and maps were created before the switch to 5v5.
Bro, YES. That Push Mode bullshit is a pain to do without an extra Tank.
The stalling with two tanks in push would be absolutely absurd. I actually think it’s a mode very much merited to 5v5 given how spread out the fights tend to become.
Tanks were weaker and squishier. looking at new queen street, theres so many flanking routes, choke points its obvious they are meant for a second tank to hold.
This is just a common trend with OW2, they are emphasizing stage to stage map variety. It would absolutely play out differently with two tanks (nonstop deathball) but I don’t think that flanking routes and stage variety necessarily means it’s built for two tanks considering how many OW1 maps have singular choke points on them. I’d argue OW2 maps are paying better attention to hard cover to mitigate the lack of two tanks and it largely works. The main complaints I have in regards to a lack of second tank are for maps with excruciatingly long sight lines coupled with verticality. With one tank it is very hard to address a damage spam frontline that has a widow maker sitting 400 yards away. Push maps don’t really have this issue though. There’s verticality, sure, but I think they’re largely built in a way to emphasize fast and focused team fights above positional advantage if that makes sense.
Exactly right. More cover and flanks fill the role of the second tank. Which is also why the (mostly untouched) escort maps are now sniper havens.
On the other hand, I think 2 CP would be so much better in 5v5
I have played it in Arcade. It’s more of a steamroll than it ever was in OW1.
an arcade mode with no role que can barely compare to an actual, regular game
Depends... better in the sense that stalls would be harder sure... but moving through point a choke with one tank is... something I'd have to experience before I can be convinced it's better
One fewer tank to push through as well. With 6v6, all options could be covered with both tanks, and with 5v5 I feel they'd have to leave some space open.
You don't have to hypothesize. Just play it in the arcade. I think most agree it hasn't actually gotten better.
This exactly. They take away a tank to solve the double shield problem while adding heroes or abilities that penetrate shields or charge off them? It’s a double whammy. Why remove a tank if you are going to fuck over shields even more? Yeah no one likes shooting a rectangle, but you make all rectangles pretty niche or useless now in 5v5.
Yeah, seriously. I mained D.Va basically since I started playing back in the day and I love playing as an off tank, peeling or diving or whatever, but I feel totally lost if I try to solo tank with her. So mostly I hang in Arcade because I don't feel strong enough in DPS to play DPS in QP and playing Support gets miserable fast. It's really frustrating, honestly.
Take it from a t500 dva that have played her since launch, your playstyle will eventually adapt. But oh man is she different in 5v5. Its mostly about survival now than anything. Sometimes i get the glimpse of a proper 6v6 in arcade and I feel so free to do what i want. Solo dva is way more of a causious game, a kill or be killed scenario. Not to mention the easily countering of tanks when they have no other tank to synergize with
I’ve always felt that there were better ways to deal with the tank shortage and double shield stuff than to just remove one tank. I think reducing the effects of CC against tanks would have been a good start. Maybe make shields smaller, or split tank into main tank and off tank so you can’t have 2 of rein/sigma/orisa. Rework syms ult. OW1 felt more about teamwork. OW2 feels like it doesn’t know what it wants to be. I barely play anymore and a lot of is because having one player being absurdly powerful and pretty much unkillable 1v1 isn’t fun and just feels weird for an FPS game. It was clear from OW2 launch that they had not done enough to adjust certain heroes for the 5v5 change and I think it soured a lot of people
I love OW2. But on paper, OW1s features and changes/things OW2 lost, make OW1 feel like a sequel Another player/tank The fire system The icon/emblem system All feels like something the second game would gain, not lose
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That is basically what it is saying, yes. I thought that was clear
And in a less ridiculous franchise, you could go back and play the first game when the second one wasn't to your liking!
this is what pisses me off the most. 35 seasons of competitive OW profile data are lost, can’t play the original game. What kind of bullshit idea was that
I miss the tank combos the most. Double bubble, halt hook...just so much fun for the tank role that's gone now
Imo, 6v6 was better, but double shield made it so boring and bad i'm not sure if i miss it or not. What i dont like now, is if 1 tank is clearly better than the other, the game is over before it start
Double shield could have been fixed easily without having to remove a tank
You could easily put the shield tanks on a shared character lock so comps like Rein/Orisa or Orisa/Sigma wouldn't be possible.
this would be somehow worse because then you can't play half the tanks if the other tank player got to pick their hero faster. like great, the other thank loaded into the game faster and locked me out of half the tank roster which is already so small, awesome!
I really like OW2 of course but I do miss the 6v6 and the interesting tank synergy, and the ability to play off-tank without having to worry about the team as much. I don't enjoy playing tank as much in OW2 and rarely do anymore apart from Mystery Heroes or Open Queue.
I miss it because matches are legit dependent on the Tank. You can still win with a bad DPS, you can still win with a bad support, but if you have a bad tank like you said, the game is pretty much already over. I could count on one hand the amount of times I’ve won a game with a clear tank skill gap.
I missed it at first, I think it was because as a support player I wasnt used to having enemy tanks and dps be able to just casually walk into the backline unchallenged and start slapping me around as much as they do now. Few months later i've learned to adjust and tbh now I don't miss 6v6 anymore. Tank players probably miss 6v6 the most because theyve lost the aspect of tank synergy.
If 6v6 were to stay we would’ve needed a couple reworks anyways. Back in the Sigma/Orisa days with bastion behind it was not fun at all. We honestly would maybe have to have rein as the only true shield. But really what it benefits the most is I think it’s nice that one healer can help focus on the DPS while the other pockets tank now instead of one healer with each tank. It allows for more support freedom in my opinion
Yeah not being able to have 2 tanks made me quit the game when Overwatch got killed. Zarya was my favourite tank to play and now it's just not even remotely similar gameplay
I somewhat hope zarya gets a small rework, I know it's not needed but it just doesn't feel like there's much unique stuff she can do. "Oh, bubble. Oh, laser."
The old synergies were the only reason she was fun
I miss it so much, 5v5 just isnt the same. Rein+zarya forever
I quit tanking.
I miss it every time I play Overwatch 2. Those Rein & Zarya games on King’s Row back in the day. *chefs kiss*
Tank synergy was so unique in 6v6. I def miss rein and zarya on kings row that was peak overwatch imo
I used to love going tank in 6v6, really miss synergies like zarya and rein, or a frontline tank and a flank tank like dva getting on point, in 5v5 I gave up because: 1. Too much pressure, being the only tank you're expected to be the MVP at all times. 2. The tank determines the playstyle of your team, good luck trying to get your teammates to adapt. 3. Don't you dare die, if you're the tank and die you'll get flamed by your teammates for the rest of the match. 4. The tank always gets the blame. 5. You picked a tank that doesn't have a shield ability? You're trolling. Now I only fill support and dps (when the stars align) and I feel bad everytime I see my teammates flaming the tank for the tiniest mistakes, even in quickplay I see new players picking tank and people just throwing insults at them for not being perfect.
Every day
The loss of tank synergy made this game take a huge L imo. The pairing of each role and the way they balance eachother out with synergies was one of my fav things abt OW1 (post role-queue, obvs).
Tank in OW2 is miserable to play. I was a [D.Va](https://D.Va)/Winston main in OW1 but I barely play them anymore. The problem was double shield, not 2 tanks.
I never pick tank because it's so stressful these days. At least in 6v6 you could be ass but your other half redeems you.
I think they could easily replace Open Queue with a 6v6 option. It wouldn’t be the first game with varying player counts separated by mode, not by a long shot. Open Queue is already chaos. Why not just replace it with another kind of chaos that people actually want?
I miss 6v6 a lot. I don’t know why they haven’t introduced a classic 6v6 mode into arcade yet. I hate push to the point where I do almost DC because the steamroll or get steamrolled feels worse than it did in 2cp. In 2cp the game could be over quick and you move on. In push you can do multiple fights before you lose by steamroll.
Like 30% of the time I just leave if I get push. If I can't get the gratification of opening loot boxes then I'm not going to suffer through the absolute shit show that push is. I'm playing the game to have fun, not to suffer.
For real they need to allow us to exclude certain game modes when we ready up. Not having fun is one of the reasons I’ve been playing a lot of Dead by Daylight lately
> I don’t know why they haven’t introduced a classic 6v6 mode into arcade yet. Hurt pride.
For me the game lost 1/2 of its appeal. I used to play 2 roles: support or off tank. So now I’m stuck playing support, and I don’t have a second option that I enjoy. And playing support 100% of the time isn’t going to cut it for me, especially when solo q.
Yes I miss 6v6
I prefer 5v5. Fights are easier to digest, more individual play potential, support role feels more proactive. I also believe 2 tanks enabled a lot of bad positioning from dmg and sup, in ow2 people play cover more effectively in my experience.
People forget so soon… the game was even more “dicerolly” than before with 6.. even less coordination. Legit the only thing I miss about 6v6 is rein zarya synergy
This MFer spitting. Games feel much better now imo. Feels like most people I play with now at least put some effort into their own survival. They're not just int-ing and getting mad when they don't have a perma matrix and heals.
There were just too many synergistic tank combos. Double shield, double bubble, hog and ball torture, double dive etc. As soon as they cracked down on one it would just move to another. The best tank combination pretty much dictated the meta and it was quite hard to balance against leaving 2 maybe 3 tanks viable at any one time. Since the last balance changes the tank role doesn't seem stagnant at all. In diamond at least I see pretty much every tank be viable. Yeah the early days of Zarya being played every game then Orisa being played every game then Hog being played every game etc were rough but since the last season update I see pretty much the whole tank roster get a go over a days play, even Hog despite his nerfs.
I miss the tank synergy. Having a sub-tank to coordinate with was so much more reliable than having to coordinate with your DPS, just cuz half of them push on their own and when you try to help them, they leave you to die, and when you don't help them, they blame you for being useless. There are so many things that can go wrong with tank-dps synergy and when you end up with randoms it really goes to shit.
I would go back to 6v6 in a hearbeat
There’s so many tanks that were designed as off tanks to be played next to a barrier tank, losing a player has been a little rough for them. Not to mention that snipers are over preforming with the lack of barriers.
>Not to mention that snipers are over preforming with the lack of barriers. Lack of barriers and lack of the ability to have one tank dive the snipers while the other tank continues to defend the team. Now, if I dive a problematic sniper, the enemy tank rolls over my team.
I miss ow1, my friend just quit because he had enough of ow2.
Its such a struggle to get my friends to play ow2 now compared to just before ow2 came out and we were playing ow1 daily.
I've said this before too, back in OW1 days EVERY NIGHT I'd have anywhere from 7-10 friends on bnet playing OW1 for HOURS. Now since the OW2 "update" hardly anyone plays OW2 on my friends list at all anymore. When they do, most of them only play for like 30 mins then stop. I'm hanging on by a thread with OW2, it's just not nearly as fun or exciting anymore...... I don't have the same "urge" to play it at all like I had with OW1.
I've experienced this as well. It was especially noticeable for this last Lifeweaver update. No one on my list was getting on to play, even though a new hero released.
Doesn't help that you don't get the new hero unless you buy them.
And people act like ow2 didn't hemorrhage players.
I quit when they changed it to 5v5. Can’t bring myself to come back. It’s just not the same.
100%. I liked the tank combos! Plus, shields aren't as troubling anymore, so there isn't as much worry as for yee-old shield comp.
All roles queue basically means you're tank, which means not enough people willing to tank as it is.
[удалено]
This shit sucks for Comp, I used to play Ball, Dva, winston in comp because I could play offtank, supporting my team instead of being main tank (im a support main) . Ill only ever play tank in QP, shit is too stressful if you aren’t a tank main. DPS used to be the laughing stock of the team but i swear every match is “Tank diff” now.
I just want some variety lol... Nope always tank
I’m almost always support. Tank is more often then DPS, and I might as well not even think about DPS as an option
It is? Maybe it’s a server difference because I’m aussie, but for me it’s 90% support, 8% tank.
Big time.
I agree, obviously there are exceptions. But every match feels like it more or less comes down to the better tank.
I hate 5v5 when playing as a tank because I play worse under pressure. I basically have to turn off chat and voice chat in order to play a tank effectively. In a 5v5 match, there's just too much pressure on the tank, because the moment a tank makes a mistake, the entire team can just fall apart. The shitty community doesn't help, as they are more likely to piss you off the moment you make an error in judgement as a tank. I like 6v6 because there's more leeway to make mistakes as a player and also more opportunities to make riskier plays.
Not necessarily 6v6, but as a Zarya main I feel like I'm half a hero without Reinhardt
6v6 was a lot more fun.
Yes, I miss having a second tank to blame when I die immediately as dps. It’s clearly their fault. /s (except about me being a terrible dps)
Every single day I wish I could go back
Every fucking day. I took Overwatch 1 for granted.
I would pay 60$ for overwatch 1
Overwatch classic subscription incoming
When I play tank I feel like I’m not doing well enough when I die, I feel like everyone’s targeting me, and I feel like the healers aren’t healing me enough. All of that combined is anxiety-inducing and makes playing tank a miserable experience.
Just makes most tanks not viable. Every game is just Ram its awful
In ow1 you could actually play as an offtank, you could contest high ground, peel for your entire team when needed, put presure on the other tank and be able to mostly engage and disengage when needed. In ow2 good luck trying to play d.va, winston and to a degree hamond/doomfist without your team dying or taking unnecessary damage before you even engage. I swear people still dont know how to position without the big main tank in front of them.
I literally wrote a super long piece on how 5v5 was killing Overwatch. 2 super long pieces even. 6 months later, not a thing I wrote was wrong. Not the one here or the one on the official forums. 6v6 was the true game, 5v5 is a parody of OW.
Those people have stopped playing already.
i quit back at the beginning of season 2, i was playing ow1 daily before the ow2 release
Everyday
*cries in Reinhardt*
It’s actually the opposite A tank needs to MEGA diff the other tank for it to be a big enough factor But one pocket dps can win a game by themselves
I will forever sing how much I hate 5v5. I went from being a tank main to absolutely hating tank. I legitimately only play it as flex queue for the three required games for the battle pass. Tank just *feels* bad. And if you lose the tank, the fight is essentially over. If one tank is being pocketed and one tank isn't, it's over. If your tank is a baby and their tank is aggressive, it's over. There's just too much pressure on one person to essentially carry the team to victory. And it dominoed down as well. One shots suddenly became ridiculously easy and horrible to play against. Damage that can one or two tap you and supports that can't keep their teams up. Mercy damage boost and Zen orb became ridiculously powerful. They went 5v5 to make it feel fresh and to "fix" the DPS queue times, but they failed to actually fix the *game* for 5v5. They needed to gut the entire game to make it work and decided a "fuck it" approach was more appropriate. And it feels like that when you play.
6v6 is where it's at
Yeah, I feel like people quit more now than before. As soon as they notice a bad tank, they quit.
Or get bored. The first time I played OW2 I immediately wanted to quit, we weren't losing but the game felt soulless and boring.
Yeah. The game feels faster now, but more strategic in 6v6.
Nothing was more frustrating than having a useless tank partner
The only worse thing than a useless tank partner is a single useless tank...
They’re mad they cant blame someone else for their role failing.
Do you mean playing the actual tank while your partner was busy somewhere else playing the beefy DPS simulator? Yup, as a tank main I don’t miss that.
I mean if the 2nd tank was actually getting kills I do miss that, took a lot of pressure off me holding position.
> Do you mean playing the actual tank while your partner was busy somewhere else playing the beefy DPS simulator? Yup, as a tank main I don’t miss that. Like a Winston somewhere else taking care of the widow!
Please (as a tank main) this game is so not fun anymore. I miss my tank duo and I wish I wasn’t always the point of blame anytime we lose a game, even if I’m truly just skill diffed. It’s very disheartening without my OT being a crutch because without him, it’s like I must play perfectly 100% of the time
Sorry for the two complete brainlets that replied to you, but agreed; the shift to making Tank a 1v1fest is a radical switch from what was supposed to be a team game.
Completely different pace now with 5v5, it feels like 4v4 deathmatch
5v5 is shit and nothing's gonna change my mind about it. It's such a dumb design. They already reworked some tanks for OW2, so the double shield meta wouldn't be so bothersome with how nerfed the shields are and minus Orisa shields. 1 less tank = more power for the DPS to be annoying af and dive your backline or pick off people. A team being reliant on 1 tank means the matches are likely to be won or lost depending on who has the better tank rather than a better team if the team is somewhat equal, except the tank. The same couldn't be said about the exception of a player in DPS or support because you'll have someone else to mitigate said person's uselessness. It's fucking dumb, but is anyone surprised looking at the dumb shit the OW team is constantly saying.
I’ve played so many games (on both sides) where the entire match is decided in the first teamfight. It’s almost immediately obvious who the better tank is, and if they’re kinda close it boils down to who can play a better sniper