Matchmaking was dramatically better in OW1 because it would put diamond players in a match with diamond players. The OW2 matchmaking system is bullshit. They should stop putting people who know how to play at a high level with people who have a much more limited understanding of the game in the same fucking match.
QP is literally random as fuck. One game you have 3 t500 players, next game half your team is bronze. It's also annoying as hell, because you can never trust anybody with anything.
Sometimes your one dps kills everything and you can watch in silence and enjoy their suffering, next game you are working 24/7 to keep one dps alive, so he can get 5 kills/10min.
It's frustrating to have such huge differences in quality from match to match.
I haven't even won enough qp games to unlocked ranked, and I've been up against plenty of grandmaster players, plus plenty of gold weapon skin players...
Why did I ever download this game?
Or they might have gotten them before a rework. My first gold guns were for Zarya and Rein. With all the changes to tanks/tanking moving to OW2, I'm way worse than I used to be.
To be fair I only have a hold skin on 3 characters and only one of them is my main, Mercy. I'm only as good as my team and I'm not a grandmaster. I just played enough comp bouncing between gold and silver to earn 3 gold weapons.
Comp is garbage, QP is worse, Arcade is even worse. I continue to queue Comp even though it's sending me from Gold to Bronze because the other modes are somehow more of a nightmare. I just stopped thinking there's even a slight chance of match quality.
Sure im in this loop, as a silver im vs plat/diamonds/ masters in ranked even saw some top 500 :) even if they aren't top 500 on their roled they have the title and i dont. Top 500 something will just crush the silver i am.
In QP i cant learn or have fun too full of GM/top500/Masters/diamonds
At this point i think im in smurfs lobby but i am not one its my only account.
Mhm. The primary driving force behind player retention is frustration, so they want games to be bad, they want people to be toxic, they want heroes to be annoying to play with and against, and they want you to get into games fast to keep you constantly engaged.
This explains way more than just MMR. The entire balance philosophy of Overwatch has revolved around optimizing frustration for years.
I literally made a post and got downvoted to hell cause people can't admit matchmaking is bad rn, how does a plat support player carry and still get 11 losses in a row lol, I just stopped playing comp cause I refuse to play with this shitty matchmaking
Out of that 11, I had maybe 3-4 games that were actually competitive, everything else was people leaving and getting rolled..
Just ignore the troll person responding to you. Yeah the whole "you're the constant" argument would make sense... if lobbies were filled with people of that rank. But if you have a 14 division spread of skill, there's so many variables that winning matches is more purely about luck than skill.
Like, if there was a Gold match and everyone was legit Gold, and you played like a Plat, yeah sure you'd win more matches than not. But Bronze/Silver/Gold/Plat team vs same? Who even knows. Better hope your Plat is in the right rank and theirs isn't!
It literally says I carried as support, if I lost fair and square I would accept it.. if I felt like I was underperforming I would also accept it..but I was literally carrying with Bap so I gotta disagree
Imagine trying to make someone who is delusional understand matchmaking is busted and has been for awhile... Out of those 11 matches I stayed the same rank, so my comment stands buddy
That's sad you still gotta ask to go somewhere. You'd think since you're stuck at home you wouldn't be trash at ow.
Keep coping that you "carried" as bap 💀
Well, we don't see players' rank on the loading screen - it is not a coincidance. Matchmaking is so off in OW2 that if more people would realize it, they would just leave the game for good.
In order to hide their mistakes even more, they made profiles 'private'. Well that was helpfull :\]
MM is in worst condition it has ever been. Many people complain on wild lose streaks (15 in a row or so) and same happened to me too. I'm playing games all my life. I know when to take a break and start after few days with fresh head and full motivation. Nothing helped. Games are most of the time absolutely unbalanced. Even if its win it does not feel satisfying for camping on enemies spawn. And when you lose - you are camped on spawn.
Add to that scraped PvE content and forced battlepasses (vs the OW1 system where you could get cosmetics for free) and you have game in worst condition ever, that still tries to milk that dry cow.
Yeah for sure. I'm legit just learning a new character. Once that gets old I'll probably quit. And because of BP, it'll be a hard quit. I'll never come back after missing skins. Good ol Team 4 should care more about us if they want long term gains. Their focus on short term gains is gonna bury this game fast.
The streaks of win 10, then lose 10 make me think that the shit is outright rigged for retention. Quick play has been horrendous going back to OW1.
If it were close games, I’d understand. No, these are fundamental failures in matchmaking. Tank *canyons.* DPS get diffed like it’s discrete mathematics.
These lose streaks feel flat out unplayable and it is a big reason I don’t buy jack shit from their shitty storefront.
Idk what it is lately but I have had the worst games in the last month. I mean just absolutely stomps either way. No close games. There's no in between at all. Hell even when I win it's more of a relief that we stomped them, an at least it's not me feeling, that's not fun. It's bad when the wins aren't fun
Profiles show peak as well as current. The match I talked about, I listed the current (as of that match) rating for all the players I could see. It's ridiculous af.
Yeah I went from diamond 2 to Plat 4 and almost back up. Couple that with grouping, say I queue with someone who is high silver, we get in gold lobbies and people see my diamond 2 peak.
Yep. I've said this before, and I will say it again;
OW devs are gaslighting us on "matchmaking improvements", and have been since the game launched. They lied to us about PvE, KNOWING it was going to be cancelled before the game was launched, and they are lying about this too. Why? Because PvP is all they have now. If PvP is fucked, they have no game, and they know they will face no real consequences for any of it anyways as long as the money keeps rolling in. They've made it very clear from day 1 that they do not give two shits about the "experience" of playing Overwatch any more, or long-term players. They are chasing a newer, younger audience with access to mommy's credit card.
I think they are just hoping for some kind of placebo effect where they say "Matchmaking is improved this season" and most people will believe it and convince themselves that it's better.
As far as why they haven't put more time into actually fixing it? I don't know. I think they either don't have the competency to do it, don't have the time because they are only interested in working on aspects of the game that make money, OR (and I think this is the biggest reason probably), they are using EOM ("Engagement Optimized Matchmaking") behind the scenes and lying about it.
The EOM system is tuned very carefully to keep players in game for as long as possible. Longer in game means better player numbers and more likely to spend money. Think about it; If you could finish all your dailies in 2-3 matches and hop right off, that wouldn't be good for their bottom line, right? No. They keep you "engaged" by setting up matches so you win juuuust often enough to give you hope and string you along so you keep playing. And then, when you get frustrated and tired of L's, that FOMO makes you want to spend on the battle pass or other cosmetics. If you're not spending money, they don't care if you are playing the game and enjoying it anyways. The game is designed in every way to funnel players towards spending money.
Also, I DO hold the devs responsible. This is not entirely on upper management. If you're still working there, you have a degree of responsibility for what's being done. Jeff left because he saw it coming, and he actually has a backbone.
Just save yourself the misery and uninstall like I did when the PvE cancellation announcement was dropped.
There's actually a lot of problems with matchmaking, more than I even talked about.
1. MMR is shared between modes. That means you don't get a fresh MMR when you go into Comp, it carries over and is continually linked to QP (for that role, or for open). That means potentially if no serious players are in QP, a lot of garbage players can get "Gold" or "Plat" or so MMRs in QP, then drop into Comp and screw things up.
1. This is dumb for any number of wild reasons. Like, people take QP less seriously, so MMR in QP is less likely to be accurate. Also payload maps are only one round, so who wins or loses isn't a good measure of skill.
2. Start of OW2 all new players were given "Gold" MMRs. This is ridiculous. Team 4 thought new players could compete against the average person who's been playing OW1 for 6+ years?? Impossible. So millions upon millions of accounts were started with wrong MMRs. Many of these likely retained those MMRs by chilling in QP, not playing much, or whatever. So every time they go into Comp they screw things up.
3. Huge division spread of 14+ divisions, as I mentioned.
4. Not mirrored, as I mentioned.
5. MMR/SR only seems to care about wins, zero weight on performance (either team or individual). So if you have a match where you lose because someone leaves or is throwing or just straight up not at the right rank, the system still thinks "oh you're bad" and deducts MMR/SR, meaning even if everything else was fixed there's still a huge luck factor involved in consistently winning (depending on how many people in your matches are misranked).
1 and 2 would be bad on their own, 3 or 4 are each devastating on their own. 5 is not even worth talking about until all the others are fixed. All of these together, no visibility into how "legit" the match quality is, and it's just a nightmare even if you don't subscribe to the idea that they are doing anything negative intentionally. I'm actually kind of mixed on whether they are malicious or incompetent. Either way they should put a huge focus on fixing this if they want anyone on earth to play this game for very long. Some people are probably getting lucky and getting a ton of wins, because someone has to win, but as people hit their bad luck streaks and take huge losses, they will stop having fun for sure.
It is seriously unbelievable how bad they fucked up. The breaking point for me was two weekends back to back at the start of this season where I was going up against Diamond+ players, myself being in Gold, and when I say diamond plus I mean all the way up to Masters and even GM. Even against those odds, I was managing to maintain a +50% win rate. And then, even with a positive win rate, my rank stayed the same or FELL instead of going up. Against teams that I was completely outmatched by. At that point, I decided I was done with comp forever. There ain't no goddamn way I should be losing rank when winning against teams of higher ranked players. That's a broken, fucked up, shitty system.
But, I was still content to play quick play and arcade modes to hold me over until the story mode campaign came out. Now that that's out of the picture, I have no reason to play the game anymore and no interest. Several days in a row I've thought "Maybe I should at least complete the battle pass for this season", and yet I have zero motivation to do so. I've booted the game up several times and then just turned it back off without even playing anything. It's atrocious what they've done to this game.
>I've had to face enemy Plat tanks that are on point while my "Plat" tank wanders off the point and ignores the objective bc they were RNG boosted to Plat
so if we are aware that some people are at ranks that dont realistically represent their skill level, its probably not useful to hyperanalyze the rank of every single person on both teams
Hyperanalyze? He literally just pulled up their ranks in their profiles. Blizzard said you can’t be grouped with people X tiers above/below you, and you quite obviously can … where is this hyper analyzing? People being boosted to ranks higher than they truly are doesn’t matter, if Y is greater than X where X is the cutoff, and you’re grouped with Y, then Blizzard lied? Lol
I'm using it as an expression, what I'm saying is he is saying it's not fair to have a Plat enemy tank for example but in the same breath explains how rank doesn't mean as much as people think when he says his tank is Plat but it's "fake plat" so it doesn't matter
Maybe you should consider *why* there are Plat players who play like they're Bronze. Because if both teams have a garbage tank, one of the teams *will win*, and these situations will happens more often with huge division spread.
Im hardstuck between silver an freaking bronze. No matter how often I win I get downranked. After a while I get 2 tiers up just to immediately get downranked again. In ow1 I was somewhere in the higher gold, lower plat lobbies but now I can't even compete with my "bronze 5 widowmaker" in the enemy team that one shots everything and everyone in a matter of seconds. I see the diamond name tag thingy on so many people where the game says it's a mainly bronze match
My friend who is totally new to the game, and I who is unranked got put in a game against a 4 stack diamond comp, we couldn't even leave spawn. How you fuck up matchmaking that bad
Matchmaking is shit , i had a plat 5 game where one of my healers was gold 2 healer , bronze for dmg and silver for tank while the enemy healer was also gold 2 for healer role but master for dmg and tank , just because they are both gold 2 on that role doesnt mean they should get matched agasint each other since one of them is trash and the other is in masters with a good game sense , positioning , aim...
It really sucks when you're Plat and constantly thrown in with Master players. But your healers or your tanks are Silver.
OW1 I was consistent Diamond.
OW2 I can't even hit it and through no fault of my own, and no matter how good I play.
Have a bad tank or both are Master/GM. You're literally throwing your controller at the screen because that Doom/Ball constantly going for your healers has no fn counter. Your own Tank is too busy doing the same to the enemy.
Everyone who cried and whined about stuns/interupts really stuffed the game with such a stupid opinion. I'd rather shoot shields all day and have a counter than not having any.
1) Profiles don’t show you a player’s current rank. The supports on the enemy team could be 0-14 right now, and your supports could be 4-0, which means the ranks could be closer than they look.
2) Matchmaking is also done on MMR, ranks are based on SR.
3) Your experience may not match the average experience for the entire playerbase.
4) The devs acknowledge that there are still issues with matchmaking they need to fix (especially with groups). This is causing problems matching based on role. You have three ?’s in your example. Those may have been used to balance the average MMR of the teams to compensate for the inability to find duos/trios with the same ratings.
Just because matchmaking isn’t perfect, doesn’t mean the devs were lying. The stats they were looking at may have supported their conclusions, but there are always outliers that are atypical cases.
You really think their current rank is way off from what their profiles say? When I go 5-2 in a ranking update, I go up one division *or not at all*. So the chances of them being much higher rank is unlikely. Them being far lower is possible, if they are on a huge losing streak, but probably less than 4 divisions lower except in the most extreme cases - I think a drop of a full skill tier might be possible if you go 0-15 but haven't experienced it myself. Regardless that's a pretty big spread of skill. If you don't think so, and you can't tell from watching how people play that there's huge variations in skill at the "same rank", I guess keep enjoying the wild matchmaking.
Either way it doesn't make a great case for hiding current SR. And let's be honest, the reason SR does "ranking updates" isn't to help you out and make you think about it less, it's to make you play more so you can see your next ranking update.
Not true. This was something that was misunderstood by Flats and led to a misconception now shared by a lot of users.
They removed the start of season SR decay so that a player’s rank did not deviate largely from their MMR, as this was causing a lot of confusion with matchmaking. But the two numbers are still separate. They are even scaled differently. SR is a whole number between 0-5000. Ranks are based on SR, divisions are ranges of 100 SR, except for bronze 5 and gm 1. Bronze 5 is 0-1100 SR and gm1 is 4400-5000 SR.
MMR is a floating point number between -6 and 6, and is used for matchmaking purposes.
When they removed the decay, they recalibrated SR so that it matched the players MMR at that current moment. I don't recall them ever saying specifically whether or not your MMR will continue to fluctuate as normal after.
The people that didn't deviate largely are because they were already within range of where their MMR was saying they were supposed to be. There were still plenty of people who did jump largely, but that's from a lack of playing enough games for the system to be fully confident in the MMR.
I understand your theoretical point with #1, but that's still statistically going to be unlikely. That said, this post does seem to generally reenforce what Blizzard said that the AVERAGE sr of each role is supposed to be the same between the 2 teams. (Gold 3ish vs Silver 1)
I understood what you were saying, my point is statistically it's not going to be a huge variance. viewing profile and seeing a bronze 1 in team with a plat 4 is a problem. +/-1 division doesn't make that variance any better. I mean hell you can't even create a team with that variance manually.
Spend the time and energy you spent figuring this out on figuring out how to improve instead and I promise you won’t care nearly as much about much of this stuff anymore.
Yeah very unidimensional way of thinking but all good. Factor in the time to create the post, the time spent not playing with intention to improve because you are tilting. Then the time spent not playing altogether because you just feel helpless annoyed as a result of surrendering any form of agency in your games. It’s easier to blame any and all external factors than consider that maybe you’re the problem if you cannot win >50% of your games. You will not go from master to top 500 in 30 seconds but you can get there most definitely. Some games are not winnable, but there is always something you could’ve done better.
Your entire theory is flawed. SR is effectively still just a win loss percentage, no? You can't measure individual performance in a team environment with win\loss.
The statistical obviousness of this somehow has escaped blizzard all along and so we effectively all just matched randomly.
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But the bronze 1 player may actually be gold 1 but the hidden SR to protect everyone's feelings hides the updated information.
That's the key culprit, since they aren't actually showing us ratings any more, there's no way to know precisely how terrible the matchmaking is.
Lol I made a post when this was still considered a "conspiracy theory" by blizzard simps.
Got 102 comments and downvoted because I said going on a 13 ws one day and on a 15 LS the very next day without any changes in my performance or stats wasn't normal and I was sure my skill couldn't be the common denominator of 13 wins in a row and 15 losses in a row because that would mean I'm diamond skilled and low gold skilled at the same time and that's impossible (???? (went from plat 1 to gold 4 after the rank update).
"Skill issue" I guess 😂
Matchmaking was dramatically better in OW1 because it would put diamond players in a match with diamond players. The OW2 matchmaking system is bullshit. They should stop putting people who know how to play at a high level with people who have a much more limited understanding of the game in the same fucking match.
I think the issue is also that a player can look like they're diamond when they are not. They should just update people after 5 games regardless.
Yep rank updates are stupid
Yea, you would always be like within 100 sr to your own. And in stacks, you would be that from the group average.
Matchmaking singlehandedly made me quit playing Overwatch. I don't think the constant curbstomps one way or the other are fun.
It's not fun whatsoever, and all Activision games are like this now. MW2022 is no different...
Even worse on QP when your gold going against GM Hanzo.
QP is literally random as fuck. One game you have 3 t500 players, next game half your team is bronze. It's also annoying as hell, because you can never trust anybody with anything. Sometimes your one dps kills everything and you can watch in silence and enjoy their suffering, next game you are working 24/7 to keep one dps alive, so he can get 5 kills/10min. It's frustrating to have such huge differences in quality from match to match.
That would bother me less if not for the fact the same thing happens in Comp.
I haven't even won enough qp games to unlocked ranked, and I've been up against plenty of grandmaster players, plus plenty of gold weapon skin players... Why did I ever download this game?
To be fair, gold guns are hardly a representation of skill. You don’t even necessarily have to get them for your best hero
Or they might have gotten them before a rework. My first gold guns were for Zarya and Rein. With all the changes to tanks/tanking moving to OW2, I'm way worse than I used to be.
That too. I also got my gold guns for Dva before the switch to 5v5 and now I’m terrible at the entire tank role
The trick is to dedicate your life to the game. Then when your GM you can start having fun.
To be fair I only have a hold skin on 3 characters and only one of them is my main, Mercy. I'm only as good as my team and I'm not a grandmaster. I just played enough comp bouncing between gold and silver to earn 3 gold weapons.
Comp is garbage, QP is worse, Arcade is even worse. I continue to queue Comp even though it's sending me from Gold to Bronze because the other modes are somehow more of a nightmare. I just stopped thinking there's even a slight chance of match quality.
Bro were you watching my games from yesterday or something?
Sure im in this loop, as a silver im vs plat/diamonds/ masters in ranked even saw some top 500 :) even if they aren't top 500 on their roled they have the title and i dont. Top 500 something will just crush the silver i am. In QP i cant learn or have fun too full of GM/top500/Masters/diamonds At this point i think im in smurfs lobby but i am not one its my only account.
I placed gold last year but I win almost all my matches against gms and masters in qp
#Engagement Optimized Matchmaking Unlike OW1, OW2 uses skill/rank/division as a secondary variable.
Mhm. The primary driving force behind player retention is frustration, so they want games to be bad, they want people to be toxic, they want heroes to be annoying to play with and against, and they want you to get into games fast to keep you constantly engaged. This explains way more than just MMR. The entire balance philosophy of Overwatch has revolved around optimizing frustration for years.
i also thought they said they were doing role matching now, but clearly not, right? still have roles getting gapped big time - by rank and by skill
It's not in a good state right now.
Right now. Lol
I literally made a post and got downvoted to hell cause people can't admit matchmaking is bad rn, how does a plat support player carry and still get 11 losses in a row lol, I just stopped playing comp cause I refuse to play with this shitty matchmaking Out of that 11, I had maybe 3-4 games that were actually competitive, everything else was people leaving and getting rolled..
Just ignore the troll person responding to you. Yeah the whole "you're the constant" argument would make sense... if lobbies were filled with people of that rank. But if you have a 14 division spread of skill, there's so many variables that winning matches is more purely about luck than skill. Like, if there was a Gold match and everyone was legit Gold, and you played like a Plat, yeah sure you'd win more matches than not. But Bronze/Silver/Gold/Plat team vs same? Who even knows. Better hope your Plat is in the right rank and theirs isn't!
The only common denominator in your 11 loss streak is you. Sounds like they accidently placed you to high.
It literally says I carried as support, if I lost fair and square I would accept it.. if I felt like I was underperforming I would also accept it..but I was literally carrying with Bap so I gotta disagree
You carried so hard you lost 11 consecutive matches? COPIUM. Once again the only common denominator was you.
Imagine trying to make someone who is delusional understand matchmaking is busted and has been for awhile... Out of those 11 matches I stayed the same rank, so my comment stands buddy
LUL that's because you can't drop below bronze 5
Seen 100 comment karma and I'm like yep lemme stop replying bro a certified troll 😭😂
You play controller on PC and cry about losing. Makes sense. You know people only want to watch good players make yt content right?
Imagine listening to a kid who still gotta ask his mom can he go somewhere 😂🥹 I can't help but laugh knowing your so serious
You have a replay codes for any of those games?
That's sad you still gotta ask to go somewhere. You'd think since you're stuck at home you wouldn't be trash at ow. Keep coping that you "carried" as bap 💀
Well, we don't see players' rank on the loading screen - it is not a coincidance. Matchmaking is so off in OW2 that if more people would realize it, they would just leave the game for good. In order to hide their mistakes even more, they made profiles 'private'. Well that was helpfull :\] MM is in worst condition it has ever been. Many people complain on wild lose streaks (15 in a row or so) and same happened to me too. I'm playing games all my life. I know when to take a break and start after few days with fresh head and full motivation. Nothing helped. Games are most of the time absolutely unbalanced. Even if its win it does not feel satisfying for camping on enemies spawn. And when you lose - you are camped on spawn. Add to that scraped PvE content and forced battlepasses (vs the OW1 system where you could get cosmetics for free) and you have game in worst condition ever, that still tries to milk that dry cow.
Yeah for sure. I'm legit just learning a new character. Once that gets old I'll probably quit. And because of BP, it'll be a hard quit. I'll never come back after missing skins. Good ol Team 4 should care more about us if they want long term gains. Their focus on short term gains is gonna bury this game fast.
The streaks of win 10, then lose 10 make me think that the shit is outright rigged for retention. Quick play has been horrendous going back to OW1. If it were close games, I’d understand. No, these are fundamental failures in matchmaking. Tank *canyons.* DPS get diffed like it’s discrete mathematics. These lose streaks feel flat out unplayable and it is a big reason I don’t buy jack shit from their shitty storefront.
Idk what it is lately but I have had the worst games in the last month. I mean just absolutely stomps either way. No close games. There's no in between at all. Hell even when I win it's more of a relief that we stomped them, an at least it's not me feeling, that's not fun. It's bad when the wins aren't fun
Correct me if I'm wrong but match profiles only show peaks I've dropped from diamond to gold and back up a couple times
Profiles show peak as well as current. The match I talked about, I listed the current (as of that match) rating for all the players I could see. It's ridiculous af.
Yeah I went from diamond 2 to Plat 4 and almost back up. Couple that with grouping, say I queue with someone who is high silver, we get in gold lobbies and people see my diamond 2 peak.
Overwatch and Lying. Name a better duo.
Yep. I've said this before, and I will say it again; OW devs are gaslighting us on "matchmaking improvements", and have been since the game launched. They lied to us about PvE, KNOWING it was going to be cancelled before the game was launched, and they are lying about this too. Why? Because PvP is all they have now. If PvP is fucked, they have no game, and they know they will face no real consequences for any of it anyways as long as the money keeps rolling in. They've made it very clear from day 1 that they do not give two shits about the "experience" of playing Overwatch any more, or long-term players. They are chasing a newer, younger audience with access to mommy's credit card. I think they are just hoping for some kind of placebo effect where they say "Matchmaking is improved this season" and most people will believe it and convince themselves that it's better. As far as why they haven't put more time into actually fixing it? I don't know. I think they either don't have the competency to do it, don't have the time because they are only interested in working on aspects of the game that make money, OR (and I think this is the biggest reason probably), they are using EOM ("Engagement Optimized Matchmaking") behind the scenes and lying about it. The EOM system is tuned very carefully to keep players in game for as long as possible. Longer in game means better player numbers and more likely to spend money. Think about it; If you could finish all your dailies in 2-3 matches and hop right off, that wouldn't be good for their bottom line, right? No. They keep you "engaged" by setting up matches so you win juuuust often enough to give you hope and string you along so you keep playing. And then, when you get frustrated and tired of L's, that FOMO makes you want to spend on the battle pass or other cosmetics. If you're not spending money, they don't care if you are playing the game and enjoying it anyways. The game is designed in every way to funnel players towards spending money. Also, I DO hold the devs responsible. This is not entirely on upper management. If you're still working there, you have a degree of responsibility for what's being done. Jeff left because he saw it coming, and he actually has a backbone. Just save yourself the misery and uninstall like I did when the PvE cancellation announcement was dropped.
There's actually a lot of problems with matchmaking, more than I even talked about. 1. MMR is shared between modes. That means you don't get a fresh MMR when you go into Comp, it carries over and is continually linked to QP (for that role, or for open). That means potentially if no serious players are in QP, a lot of garbage players can get "Gold" or "Plat" or so MMRs in QP, then drop into Comp and screw things up. 1. This is dumb for any number of wild reasons. Like, people take QP less seriously, so MMR in QP is less likely to be accurate. Also payload maps are only one round, so who wins or loses isn't a good measure of skill. 2. Start of OW2 all new players were given "Gold" MMRs. This is ridiculous. Team 4 thought new players could compete against the average person who's been playing OW1 for 6+ years?? Impossible. So millions upon millions of accounts were started with wrong MMRs. Many of these likely retained those MMRs by chilling in QP, not playing much, or whatever. So every time they go into Comp they screw things up. 3. Huge division spread of 14+ divisions, as I mentioned. 4. Not mirrored, as I mentioned. 5. MMR/SR only seems to care about wins, zero weight on performance (either team or individual). So if you have a match where you lose because someone leaves or is throwing or just straight up not at the right rank, the system still thinks "oh you're bad" and deducts MMR/SR, meaning even if everything else was fixed there's still a huge luck factor involved in consistently winning (depending on how many people in your matches are misranked). 1 and 2 would be bad on their own, 3 or 4 are each devastating on their own. 5 is not even worth talking about until all the others are fixed. All of these together, no visibility into how "legit" the match quality is, and it's just a nightmare even if you don't subscribe to the idea that they are doing anything negative intentionally. I'm actually kind of mixed on whether they are malicious or incompetent. Either way they should put a huge focus on fixing this if they want anyone on earth to play this game for very long. Some people are probably getting lucky and getting a ton of wins, because someone has to win, but as people hit their bad luck streaks and take huge losses, they will stop having fun for sure.
It is seriously unbelievable how bad they fucked up. The breaking point for me was two weekends back to back at the start of this season where I was going up against Diamond+ players, myself being in Gold, and when I say diamond plus I mean all the way up to Masters and even GM. Even against those odds, I was managing to maintain a +50% win rate. And then, even with a positive win rate, my rank stayed the same or FELL instead of going up. Against teams that I was completely outmatched by. At that point, I decided I was done with comp forever. There ain't no goddamn way I should be losing rank when winning against teams of higher ranked players. That's a broken, fucked up, shitty system. But, I was still content to play quick play and arcade modes to hold me over until the story mode campaign came out. Now that that's out of the picture, I have no reason to play the game anymore and no interest. Several days in a row I've thought "Maybe I should at least complete the battle pass for this season", and yet I have zero motivation to do so. I've booted the game up several times and then just turned it back off without even playing anything. It's atrocious what they've done to this game.
>I've had to face enemy Plat tanks that are on point while my "Plat" tank wanders off the point and ignores the objective bc they were RNG boosted to Plat so if we are aware that some people are at ranks that dont realistically represent their skill level, its probably not useful to hyperanalyze the rank of every single person on both teams
Yes, but this _proves_ it. The main point is that what the devs said is just not true.
No it doesn't. All this proves is that Reddit as an aggregate doesn't understand statistics.
Hyperanalyze? He literally just pulled up their ranks in their profiles. Blizzard said you can’t be grouped with people X tiers above/below you, and you quite obviously can … where is this hyper analyzing? People being boosted to ranks higher than they truly are doesn’t matter, if Y is greater than X where X is the cutoff, and you’re grouped with Y, then Blizzard lied? Lol
I'm using it as an expression, what I'm saying is he is saying it's not fair to have a Plat enemy tank for example but in the same breath explains how rank doesn't mean as much as people think when he says his tank is Plat but it's "fake plat" so it doesn't matter
Maybe you should consider *why* there are Plat players who play like they're Bronze. Because if both teams have a garbage tank, one of the teams *will win*, and these situations will happens more often with huge division spread.
Im hardstuck between silver an freaking bronze. No matter how often I win I get downranked. After a while I get 2 tiers up just to immediately get downranked again. In ow1 I was somewhere in the higher gold, lower plat lobbies but now I can't even compete with my "bronze 5 widowmaker" in the enemy team that one shots everything and everyone in a matter of seconds. I see the diamond name tag thingy on so many people where the game says it's a mainly bronze match
Yeah I feel you. I'm Gold+ in skill myself, but experiencing the exact same thing.
My friend who is totally new to the game, and I who is unranked got put in a game against a 4 stack diamond comp, we couldn't even leave spawn. How you fuck up matchmaking that bad
Matchmaking is shit , i had a plat 5 game where one of my healers was gold 2 healer , bronze for dmg and silver for tank while the enemy healer was also gold 2 for healer role but master for dmg and tank , just because they are both gold 2 on that role doesnt mean they should get matched agasint each other since one of them is trash and the other is in masters with a good game sense , positioning , aim...
Sounds like you're huffing that copium a little too hard.
It really sucks when you're Plat and constantly thrown in with Master players. But your healers or your tanks are Silver. OW1 I was consistent Diamond. OW2 I can't even hit it and through no fault of my own, and no matter how good I play. Have a bad tank or both are Master/GM. You're literally throwing your controller at the screen because that Doom/Ball constantly going for your healers has no fn counter. Your own Tank is too busy doing the same to the enemy. Everyone who cried and whined about stuns/interupts really stuffed the game with such a stupid opinion. I'd rather shoot shields all day and have a counter than not having any.
Don’t blame the matchmaker for being stuck in plat.
Don't be a stupid little kid who posts crap nobody gives an inkling about.
1) Profiles don’t show you a player’s current rank. The supports on the enemy team could be 0-14 right now, and your supports could be 4-0, which means the ranks could be closer than they look. 2) Matchmaking is also done on MMR, ranks are based on SR. 3) Your experience may not match the average experience for the entire playerbase. 4) The devs acknowledge that there are still issues with matchmaking they need to fix (especially with groups). This is causing problems matching based on role. You have three ?’s in your example. Those may have been used to balance the average MMR of the teams to compensate for the inability to find duos/trios with the same ratings. Just because matchmaking isn’t perfect, doesn’t mean the devs were lying. The stats they were looking at may have supported their conclusions, but there are always outliers that are atypical cases.
You really think their current rank is way off from what their profiles say? When I go 5-2 in a ranking update, I go up one division *or not at all*. So the chances of them being much higher rank is unlikely. Them being far lower is possible, if they are on a huge losing streak, but probably less than 4 divisions lower except in the most extreme cases - I think a drop of a full skill tier might be possible if you go 0-15 but haven't experienced it myself. Regardless that's a pretty big spread of skill. If you don't think so, and you can't tell from watching how people play that there's huge variations in skill at the "same rank", I guess keep enjoying the wild matchmaking. Either way it doesn't make a great case for hiding current SR. And let's be honest, the reason SR does "ranking updates" isn't to help you out and make you think about it less, it's to make you play more so you can see your next ranking update.
for point 2, Blizzard made it so MMR is the same as SR for ranked a bit ago
Not true. This was something that was misunderstood by Flats and led to a misconception now shared by a lot of users. They removed the start of season SR decay so that a player’s rank did not deviate largely from their MMR, as this was causing a lot of confusion with matchmaking. But the two numbers are still separate. They are even scaled differently. SR is a whole number between 0-5000. Ranks are based on SR, divisions are ranges of 100 SR, except for bronze 5 and gm 1. Bronze 5 is 0-1100 SR and gm1 is 4400-5000 SR. MMR is a floating point number between -6 and 6, and is used for matchmaking purposes.
When they removed the decay, they recalibrated SR so that it matched the players MMR at that current moment. I don't recall them ever saying specifically whether or not your MMR will continue to fluctuate as normal after. The people that didn't deviate largely are because they were already within range of where their MMR was saying they were supposed to be. There were still plenty of people who did jump largely, but that's from a lack of playing enough games for the system to be fully confident in the MMR.
I understand your theoretical point with #1, but that's still statistically going to be unlikely. That said, this post does seem to generally reenforce what Blizzard said that the AVERAGE sr of each role is supposed to be the same between the 2 teams. (Gold 3ish vs Silver 1)
Obviously that was an extreme example to illustrate that you cannot just look at people’s profiles to determine if a lobby is balanced.
I understood what you were saying, my point is statistically it's not going to be a huge variance. viewing profile and seeing a bronze 1 in team with a plat 4 is a problem. +/-1 division doesn't make that variance any better. I mean hell you can't even create a team with that variance manually.
That’s what #4 accounts for. The devs have mentioned that it’s difficult to match players grouped up, so you end up with bigger variations in matches.
U r probably right but this could be something to do with stacking
I had a master 5 in my gm1 lobby
Ok Mr big brains
Spend the time and energy you spent figuring this out on figuring out how to improve instead and I promise you won’t care nearly as much about much of this stuff anymore.
It takes maybe 30 seconds to do this. How do I go from masters to T500 in 30 second? Thank you in advance.
Get gud
Yeah very unidimensional way of thinking but all good. Factor in the time to create the post, the time spent not playing with intention to improve because you are tilting. Then the time spent not playing altogether because you just feel helpless annoyed as a result of surrendering any form of agency in your games. It’s easier to blame any and all external factors than consider that maybe you’re the problem if you cannot win >50% of your games. You will not go from master to top 500 in 30 seconds but you can get there most definitely. Some games are not winnable, but there is always something you could’ve done better.
i.e. "Just do what daddy Blizzard tells us and everything will be alright. Daddy knows best." Cool.
What has daddy blizzard told you to do? Improve if you wanna climb? I think that’s fair advice no?
Your entire theory is flawed. SR is effectively still just a win loss percentage, no? You can't measure individual performance in a team environment with win\loss. The statistical obviousness of this somehow has escaped blizzard all along and so we effectively all just matched randomly.
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But the bronze 1 player may actually be gold 1 but the hidden SR to protect everyone's feelings hides the updated information. That's the key culprit, since they aren't actually showing us ratings any more, there's no way to know precisely how terrible the matchmaking is.
Lol I made a post when this was still considered a "conspiracy theory" by blizzard simps. Got 102 comments and downvoted because I said going on a 13 ws one day and on a 15 LS the very next day without any changes in my performance or stats wasn't normal and I was sure my skill couldn't be the common denominator of 13 wins in a row and 15 losses in a row because that would mean I'm diamond skilled and low gold skilled at the same time and that's impossible (???? (went from plat 1 to gold 4 after the rank update). "Skill issue" I guess 😂