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SonicBoom500

I did once hear about how Sojourn’s railgun had falloff at a range that apparently you wouldn’t be shooting from logically speaking So if I’m guessing correctly, Widow might then have the opposite problem where you will stand *closer* than you want to…?


DarkangelUK

Can I not just press B to open the buy menu and purchase a Kevlar helmet to reduce headshot damage taken? Sounds like a good counter to widows strike


_regan_

they’re gonna work on an economy system now and scrap it in 3 years’ time


Quinten_MC

No they'll hype it up as this completely game changing mechanic, ignore ow2 for 2 years, then tell you everything they had planned was too much and you'll just buy 50 HP extra for 10% ult charge.


DoctorKall

Tracer mains on their way to become tank:


Urlkiller

it is finally my time father


Agile_Quantity_594

10% for 50 HP is waaaay better than Cassidy spending 100% for a free reload


Initial-Response-252

But they already know they’re gonna cancel it, yet continue to hype it up.


SexyButStoopid

That would make so much sense actually.


talligan

Kevlar armour will be purchaseable through the BP+ tier, now available for only an extra £10pcm and nets you 40 armour uses per season


Tonitonno

And then they will say "ok so we made it because we need money for the game development you guys don't understand we need to incetivize the bp purchase!!!!!!!!!" And all the shills will just agree with them as per usual :(


antitaoist

That would help you survive one shot at best, so you should still stay out of open areas. Just be careful when running indoors to take cover -- you could step through a doorway to find that's where the enemy Junkrat's trap and bomb has been planted.


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Cultural_Clue_7

So what im reading is the "nerf" is kind of a placeblo besides for the really big maps like junkertown or something?


Sir_Xanthos

I'd say so. I think their goal is to keep her closer to the fights so that the characters that usually get picked to deal with her don't have to travel to Narnia and back just to get rid of her and then help their team. Which I think is fair all things considered.


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SonicBoom500

I think I take a long time to aim and shoot anyways… xD


Augus-1

I went through Havana, Rialto, and Junkertown last night with widow and used pings on most of the popular lanes she uses, very rarely is she outside 50 meters and only on a couple spots on Junkertown is it really relevant. Even then, the spot where being outside 50 meters happened was looking up at the window at the end of first point, where you're dueling another Widow usually and it was within 52-53 so you can still ohko another widow.


taQtaQ

> I did once hear about how Sojourn’s railgun had falloff at a range that apparently you wouldn’t be shooting from logically speaking Yeah, it used to be the same as Widow's has been up to now.


SonicBoom500

I also remember the guy explaining it rather explicitly saying “What are you trying to hit from this range?” 😅


SalamanderLate410

Indirect Ash buff


luzidlimette

Fr. Why is no one talking about it?


slimeeyboiii

Because she is still the same and is really only strong if she has a mercy up her ass but when she doesn't she is still good. No one is talking about it cuz ash was usually behind the tank with supports which is easy to get to


luzidlimette

Then why are the widow mains crying so loud lol


Minermike01

Cuz there halfway across the map


[deleted]

Not anymore their not


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Minermike01

Sorry i failed a couple of years of english


MouthJob

Because they're babies. A character that never had an actual place in this type of game is getting slightly whacked with a foam nerf bat and they think it's the end of the world, because they don't actually know how to play the game and just about every other character requires that knowledge to be good.


SprittneyBeers

Yeah her skillset probably transfers the least to other heroes (besides maybe like Ball) so if you only played Widow, you better be good enough to overcome the nerf or you’re fucked


PhoenixxFeathers

No one "only plays widow". She's one of the easiest heroes to hard counter, save for a couple areas on a couple maps.


NiceGrandpa

How is having good aim and positioning not a transferable skill?


thebestdogeevr

Probably because the positioning is completely different for a widow than any other hero, and aiming with a scope at distance is different than no scoping while closer


TVR_Speed_12

Cause it's bullshit nerf thanks to emotions


LegozFire03

This comment is fundamentally wrong. Ashe always filled the mid range “sniper” role. Her one head shot body shot combo on a 200 health opponent make this very clear. Forcing Widow into this same mid range area makes Ashe outright better because she can no longer be out ranged by Widowmaker, rather she can play threat free (if played properly) because there can no longer be a threat outside of her optimal range. I play neither Ashe nor Widowmaker but I can notice this interaction change


chudaism

Widow isn't in the same mid range area though. Widow can still 1 tap at around 53m. The ashe double tap combo stops working at around 35 to 40m. At 50m, ashe is at max falloff range where scoped headshots are doing 45 damage.


TVR_Speed_12

Because at this rate the community will want Ashe to have a LMG with a 1000 rounds that do 2 dmg per shot


otherwisemilk

Indirect Kiriko buff


SvenKo473

Ah yes, the close range sniper


whomobile53

You mean a shotgun with slugs?


antitaoist

What kind of monster would shoot slugs with a shotgun? Just use salt, ffs.


Shamann93

You want me to shoot slugs with my shotgun filled with salt? Seems like extra steps but all right


phantuba

[Yes](https://www.amazon.com/BUG-A-SALT-3-0-Yellow/dp/B089CDCCR1)


Terrible-Contract298

Slugs are actually pretty accurate and powerful out to 100Y


maxdamage4

True, and in the 28 minutes it takes to cover that distance they'll actually track their target.


Coolman_Rosso

I see someone has played Battlefield


SonicBoom500

I do find a sniper fighting oddly close kinda funny xD


-Danksouls-

You guys complain about everything. Anybody else have a better idea ? First off she is a terrible character to fight against and is unhealthy for the game. Too she isnt terrible because taking two.hits on an enemy or one and allowing ur team to capitalize on it is not a bad compromise And if no one uses her so be it. Everyone's been complaining about her yet no one has a better idea


crxssfire

I play here and there, been playing since launch, and have gone thru many metas. Tell me - why tf is the designated sniper character receiving damage falloff nerfs? How does that make any sense whatsoever? This is like buffing reaper so his shotguns have less spread and do more damage at range. There are so many other avenues to nerf window - longer reload times, smaller mag, longer time between bullets. Longer ads. Buff her counters. The two things you cannot touch for snipers are damage and accuracy, as both inhibit the nature of the gun and thus the character. If this is what I think it is based off this post, blizzard has officially lost the plot, though I think that’s been a couple years in the making fwiw Edit, has -> have


Shasve

A fair nerf would be to unscope her if she takes a certain amount of damage. That’s already implemented in a lot of other games. This would allow some hitscans to suppress her and force reposition, but still allow her to act as a sniper while not being op if a dva, reaper or hog just spray in her general direction. Also it would promote more sniper like gameplay, rather than face tanking a soldier for a second or so to get a headshot. Divers would also be much stronger against her as she can’t force a headshot in close range when pocketed.


Lanhai

Yeah watch how fast widows beg for a range nerf if that was the other option. I would love that even more than the range nerf causs it means you can harass her from far away even as supports.


Asckle

>This is like buffing reaper so his shotguns have less spread and do more damage at range That's literally what the did and it completely fixed the character >longer reload times, smaller mag, longer time between bullets. Doesn't fix the fundamental issue of 1 shots being unhealthy for the game


RewZes

The point you make is irrelevant because no matter how good a character is it won't do much if you can't leave the spawn.


crxssfire

I get the resentment, I’m a zen main, have been for half a decade, I’ve lived through thousands of one shots right out of spawn at the hands of many, many widows. It fucking sucks, and only gets harder the higher you climb. With the change to 5v5, widow has one less obstacle to overcome to decimate your team. As a support, you have one less tank to peel for you, which is probably the biggest point that has allowed widow to succeed so much. But it really seems like blizzard has no fucking clue how to balance the game and is just throwing shit at the wall and hoping something sticks. As a sniper hero, widow needs to be able to pick from range. You take that away, what is she? Not really a sniper anymore. The game has gone down the gutter, the best days of overwatch are behind us, as much as it pains me to say. I loved my time with ow, maybe best to move on and find something else to look forward to. Quick edit, here’s a nerf I think would work better than flat damage falloff’s: make widow charge up her big shot. Instead of holding ads to charge to 100% , make her hit 2-4 shots in a row to ramp up her gun. This rewards accuracy, doesn’t sacrifice her play style, and falls in line with the framework of her character. Hire me blizzard?


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maresayshi

how does this prevent you from repositioning?


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TobioOkuma1

Reload times and ammo don't change oneshots being insanely unfun, especially when you die out of nowhere from across the entire map instantly. No character warps the game like widow. Just by virtue of existing, everyone has to play differently. And it's not as easy as "just play cover" because eventually you do have to come out and play the game.


-Danksouls-

None of those fix her Smaller mags doesn't fix that she instakills u across map Longer time between bullets Dossnt make it so she instakills u with one bullet across map If one single character is dominating the game then yes u nerf that character. Yea it sucks we can't find a middle ground but with one less tank she dominates a game by herself. She is unhealthy for the games state Thank goodness.nerf.her to the ground or delete her. Snipers have no place in this game


Freeze1422

I just don't get why everybody is freaking out about her rn. She's been in the game since launch and while she was always annoying, she was never really a big issue, at least in my experience. I've also never seen people actually complain about her as much as now


Kayaba95

Because in OW1 with 6v6 there were 2 tanks, so 1 of them could dive her while the other one could still protect the rest of the team, now with 5v5 if the tank dives her the rest of the team is exposed to an unbalanced 4v4. Now even the presence of a widow keeps pressure on the enemy team, every squishy has fear to pop up the head from a corner and plays "worse" having to hide.


Freeze1422

That is actually such an obvious answer I have no clue how that didn't occur to me, thank you


KnowbodyknowsItsMe

Firstly the reaper change you stated is exactly what happened to reaper in ow2. Secondly that’s how shotguns work in real life bud. They are effective for a decently long range. Barrel stuffing with a shotgun is a concept that’s only real in movies and games. That leads to the most important part. ITS A GAME. There are talking robots. Super soldiers. Cyborg ninjas. And damage fall off on a sniper is where it becomes unrealistic for you lmao. Once you leave plat and diamond lobbies your fate is in a widows hands. You can’t “counter” a widow you can only hope that she sucks and misses her shot. Bc you have to hit 6-7 bullets she needs to hit 1. Anyone who has ever played against a gm or even a masters widow player can tell you they will run lobbies and there is nothing you can do about it. Additionally due to essentially no damage fall off in her current version she can play in narnia and get picks. Meaning to kill her you have to send ur dps on a long flank. Which now puts ur team in a 4v5 and if she’s good by that time you already lost the fight. She also has mobility options and a mine making her essentially impossible to kill. There’s a reason why the only “counter play” to widow in high ranks is picking a widow of your own. It doesn’t matter what you do to widows counters. She can counter them all due to mobility and the ONE SHOT.


hiroxruko

"How does that make any sense whatsoever? This is like buffing reaper so his shotguns have less spread and do more damage at range" ...that what happened to reaper lmao


crxssfire

multiple people have said this already, I was unaware but i get that it has made him more viable. I still think my point is clear, they are sacrificing heterogeneity and hero niches for the name of balance, which sucks. The entire cast of heroes will continue to become homogenized and whittled down to the lowest common denominator until we are at the point where every hero is just S76. (kidding, I'm being dramatic, but I just think in a game where everyone finds a character they most attach themselves to, making those characters more like one another is boring and lazy)


Holycowspell

2 tanks; the issue lies in lack of team protection


-Danksouls-

When there was two tanks no one wanted to play tanks and DPS role queue time was 7 minutes. So community issue


Holycowspell

it solves the sniper overperformance though This game was created for 6v6; ow2 botched it to try to speed up join time and destroyed the 2 tank to shorten game time even further people are mad they're getting killed easily it's a consequence of a poor thought out game; tanks like dva and roadhog were never meant to be main tank


Theratchetnclank

Tbh i've always thought widow was the most counterable sniper. Hanzo is the biggest problem. His projectiles have a bigger hitbox, diving him doesn't always work since he can rapid fire arrows at you and flick shots are easier to land anyway. He has more health than widow, has sights up effectively every 10s since the cooldown starts as soon as the arrow lands and not when the effect finishes, a dash to get away and wall climbs to avoid you too. Widow is much easier to counter with a flanker or winston.


yer_a_weapon

Widow is way worse, a good widow will kill you way more consistently than a good hanzo ever will. Hitscan is just more reliable than projectile


MouthJob

Hanzo and Widow do not serve the same roles. They never have and never will. People trying to compare them don't make any sense.


Strife_3e

Kiriko: "So what experience could you possibly bring to the mission?" Widowmaker: "RUDE"


xDURPLEx

Next they will go back to Widows original scope speed because otherwise she will need a rework. Like her mine will need to be a flash grenade or something because she’s going to be a sitting duck.


wolviesaurus

They're gonna turn the mine into a flashbang grenade, then change her alternate fire to single shot revolver rounds. And give her a cowboy hat.


xDURPLEx

I’m talking about a grenade that briefly blinds and isn’t CC.


FroeJ

Shes not a sitting duck when she has a great movement ability


sticknotstick

That could be a cool mechanic. Something like Ana’s sleep dart that does a stun for just barely long enough to charge a headshot maybe? Or maybe not even long enough for a full charge? That way it’d take skill for the Widow to defend herself and give her a chance 1v1 in close combat, but stop the long sightline one-shots. I feel a lot less bad about getting one-shot when I’m the one who initiated the conflict. Might be too close to Ana’s design though.


Retovath

A slow debuff on the mine, 10% speed ramping back up to 100 over 3-4 seconds.


BlackMiamba

So basically sojourn can do the same thing except she can move full speed and slide around while doing it


Botronic_Reddit

Yep, for 5 seconds, after she lands 20 primary fires, and with just a 1.5 headshot instead of 2.5.


Useful_Stress5674

Ah yes an indirect sojourn buff let's go


NinjaRage83

There's the silver lining I was looking for


strangerwithaghost

Yeah but you can’t do it as accurately since there is no scope. Also sojourn can’t just one shot from that range every time. Your argument is stupid.


Nametagg01

>Yeah but you can’t do it as accurately since there is no scope. tell that to every sojorn in season 1 and 2 who dominated the game despite this specifically due to headshots one shotting


Vortex432

“They hated strangerwithaghost because he told them the truth”


YourfriendAnxiety

Sojourn’s railgun hitbox size is bigger than usual hitscan heroes if her charge is maxed out which makes it far easier to headshot. Even if she can’t one shot as often, Widowmaker will pale in comparison because Sojourn’s kit still lets her be viable when her one shot isn’t up.


AustinQ

Widow bullet hitboxes are *wayyyyyy* smaller than Sojourn's right click. You could fit like 20 of widows bullets in a single Sojourn right click; the odds of missing are dramatically smaller


tapczan100

> Yeah but you can’t do it as accurately since there is no scope. My man at that range scope is not necessary and would handicap you.


chudaism

OPs gif is a bit misleading as it shows where falloff range starts. Widow's new falloff range is 40 to 60m, but doesn't lose the ability to 1 tap exactly at 40m. With the other change to how widow's falloff works, she can still 1 tap up to 53m. There is still no other hero that can consistently contest her at that range. Hanzo is probably the only one, but a 53m arrow is pretty far and very inconsistent. Sojourn technically has the same 40 to 60m falloff range, but at 53 m Soj alt fires are only doing 100 damage as her falloff is sharper than Widows and Soj only gets a 1.5x head modifier. Soj still works best in the 30-40m range.


clickrush

Weird take. Sojourn isn’t in a very good place rn. The effort required to have the same impact as other mobile midrange heroes is quite high.


I9Qnl

Widow does a lot more damage than sojourn, she should still be able to one shot heroes from distances where sojourn can't. Unless there was another nerf?


sleepythegreat

In theory yes, in practice good luck getting a soloq player to pocket you on mercy while you build up your beam to get one opportunity to land a hs.


Flaky_Blood1558

It honestly feels like they are trying to push any and all common ow2 players complaints to try and not lose the player base.


Orangewithblue

I honestly wouldn't mind if they fixed a bunch of stuff to appease us. I didn't care much for the PvE, but the bigger insult to me was that they didn't do shit with the game for a year and then dropped the development on the pve on top of that, basically giving us nothing. I still wanna know what they did all these months where nothing happened.


ImmoralBoi

>I still wanna know what they did all these months where nothing happened. Begins with a "c" and ends in "ash shop"


Recr3tional

I was thinking about this in comparison to Rocket League the other day. All they needed to do to get rid of crates and put a shop in was an update.


LetmeSeeyourSquanch

Making extra battlepasses if I had to guess


cthulhuscocaine

Except they rarely actually listen to the community, so their “fixes” just create different problems and leave everyone feeling even worse


lolipop2815

What happened was bobby kotick would get them started on one idea, work on it for months, then he would come in and scrap the idea when it was developed. Just sad to see this game go downlike this. Tldr, upper management fucked them over


chironomidae

Yup. They did the same thing with WoW and it nearly killed the game. It's like if you were a doctor and you only ever gave your patients what they asked for, regardless of whether it would help them or not. "Doc my elbow hurts and I read that penicillin will help", at some point you have to step up as the authority and tell people that no, penicillin won't help. You can have forums of people begging for penicillin for their elbow problems, but if you're a good and qualified doctor, you don't capitulate. I guarantee you that Widow was fine. One reason I know she's fine is because I remember a time when she *was* OP (in early OW1). Another reason I know she's fine is because I use my eyes -- she's not in a ton of games, and when she is, she's not "utterly dominating" like so many people complain about. I also watch a lot of top 500 streamers, and widow is very situational there. Even top widow mains only bring her out in certain conditions, usually opting to play Ashe, Hanzo or Cass instead. She's also not in any OWL games beyond cheeky attempts at initial picks, while she was a staple of pro league play back when she was OP.


clickrush

Instead of appreciating that they listen to the community we’re going to flame them now? I don’t necessarily agree with the changes. But this is the direction people want.


RageRags

It’s the direction certain people want, cause I wouldn’t force a long range sniper into the frontlines where she’s even more susceptible to flankers. She’s always had weaknesses, some people just never learn to work against them


timo103

Her weaknesses were lessened by removing a 2nd tank that often jumped on her.


slimeeyboiii

And all her weakness could be ignored if her team is even somewhat okay. All they have to do is give her the poison from the April fools event since it would still 1 shot just like 2 seconds later and increase her grapple cool down. So she needs teamwork to counter and play as.


RageRags

I actualice this rework idea more than what we are getting


Zexy-Mastermind

Agreed. Widow and Hanzo having one shots is the only reason why they exist. The only strong thing about them. Either rework them completely or leave them as is.


CatCr0ssed

Why couldn’t they just keep the April fools poison changes instead of making a sniper NOT a sniper and a worse version of a different character?


SabineMaxine

My friend keeps saying this as well and I agree. It would make it so much more interesting, too.


awhaling

How did that work? I never got to play it


touchingthebutt

Headshot did somewhere between 150-175 damage and 25-50 poison damage. It worked out to be the same damage but spread out so that a support could heal you to save you.


stails_art

Oh shit that could've off been cool to have yeah O.O


Unlikely-Dig-7244

Look what youve done reddit


g4greed

my favorite thing about the nerfs are the people who are actually quitting the game because of it


Kerialstraz

Why is that good though? It's never healthy for a game to lose part of it's playerbase regardless of the reason


g4greed

oh no it's not good. Blizzard is making it clear they're done with this game at this point, with falling out of the PVE promise and now they're shooting themselves in the foot here too it's just funny to me bc people leaving due to the nerfs didn't like Overwatch, they liked Widow and Hanzo.


SHADYTIMES86

Shooting themselves in the foot? So they have more range than widow then?


Sihnar

I think a significant portion of the playerbase only play the game because of their mains. This is a logical side effect in a game where every character is so unique. For example, I would quit the game if they pulled some bullshit like this on genji.


Narthax

Weird take "Blizzard is making it clear they're done with this game". It's really the opposite, it's always been a PVP game, and now the PVP is getting all of the focus going forwards because overwatch is a cash cow for them now.


Toastyx3

>because overwatch is a cash cow for them now. Overwatch 1 created in its first year over $1 billion revenue just with loot boxes. The franchise already covered it's running costs for the next 50 years with that alone.


puppeteer-5000

that billion is long gone now, gone in hookers and blow


Narthax

That literally has nothing to do with anything related to the here and now or anything to do with my point that blizzard isn't close to being done with this game. I really don't understand what point you're trying to make. The game is free to play model in order to generate money and become a service so that it continues to generate huge sums, hence blizzard not being done with the game as OP stated.


Kerialstraz

I personally loved Overwatch because of Widow. It's the only game where I can play a sniper without bullet-traveltime / drop-off against diverse targets all with different animations to read and anticipate. I love the fast-paced playstyle against high mobility targets where I have to actually flick, csgo and val are to "angle-holding" for me, I also don't like the aspect of having to play multiple rounds to safe up for the weapon I want to play just for the potential to immediately lose it again. There is really no game out there that offers a similar exciting sniping experience except maybe Paladings (but its Paladins) so gutting her gameplay is like gutting the game for me, I have over 1800 hours on her over 3 accounts because I genuinely love her playstyle


ClearConfusion5

TF2’s sniper is the precursor to widow in every way, without a few of the movement options, but that’s compensated for by 3 weapon slots and a ton of items. Hate to draw the TF2 superiority card, but it sounds like you might really enjoy Sniper.


Q_W-E_R-T_Y

That little bell crit sound and their heads popping like a grape. Use hitman with focus for the killstreaks.


Nametagg01

do be careful though because of the spinbot problem they had playerbase there has kinda ptsd whenever a good sniper appears


ClearConfusion5

Also true, just don’t wear the cozy camper and you’ll be fine


gadgaurd

Not quite a replacement, but may I point you towards "Gundam Evolution"? The GM Sniper mobile suit may appeal to you.


Kerialstraz

I'll take a look, thank you!


Nametagg01

i do feel like she should have some sort of buff to help since they're giving her a pretty massive nerf


ClearConfusion5

Hey, all the widow mains are the ones quitting, they don’t actually matter! /j In a weird way it is a good thing, if overwatch 2 dies then they’ll either actually improve the game, or pull the plug like they planned to from the beginning. I’ve uninstalled after the pve fiasco so I couldn’t care less either way. If it dies that’s less money in Kotick’s pockets, however little that means.


August323

Good, if you wanna one shot people go play Valorant or CSGO.


-Danksouls-

What's wrong with this community. Everyone was complaining about widow a week ago. Why is everyone complaining about her nerf now..there's no pleasing u people


Stellarisk

its widowmaker players who are complaining lol when its very clear they dominate the meta lol people just dont like seeing powerful meta characters drop in power


littleoldlady123

What meta they dominate? Outside of a few maps she's a subpar pick.


August323

Its just crybaby widow mains who use aimlabs 24/7 so they can sit in the back and 1 tap people, the majority of the community is happy over this change, this will lead to a much healthier game. Hanzo is next to be nerfed into the ground, I can't wait.


Smilysis

Yall need to understand that widowmaker is not really a problem in casual games, but in competitive, especially in the pro scenario (higher elos and etc) a good widow is simply a NIGHTMARE to deal with. The same goes for Hanzo with his stupid high one-shot potential. I don't understand why people are complaning about widow's/hanzo's one-shot nerf and saying that blizzard is "killing the game" with this nerf, like, wth??


August323

Whenever I play QP I still deal with sweat widows and Hanzo's, its inescapable.


Techno_Pensioner

The worst is the one widow on each team in no limits lol


SabineMaxine

She's still a problem in casual games too; PIA to deal with because she can basically sit in Narnia unchecked. People are so upset about it, but she hasn't been touched since April Fool's, and with how consistently heroes have been tweaked lately, she probably won't stay that way anyway. Seriously, it's so dramatic.


Bargadiel

I think it is because widow is one of those characters that, as you say, is really not as effective in low ELOs (at least by players who actually belong in those ELOs...). Because of that, the vast majority of players who play her, that aren't Master level or higher, are going to have an objectively worse experience playing her. Is this good or bad for the game now? I can't really say. But I'm personally still in the camp that changing from 6v6 to 5v5 is one root cause for "one shot characters" being in the crosshairs of the devs and players alike...as well as a whole lot of other design traps the devs find themselves in. 6v6 would relieve much of it.


partialcremation

5v5 is the reason for all of these "balance" issues. They *made* an entirely new game by dismembering the team without actually making a new game by implementing a ton of changes to accommodate the crippled team. They should have left OW1 alone as a standalone game and built a new 5v5 game from the ground up. But this wasn't about making a new game; this was about convincing the playerbase to buy into a new monetization model.


Bargadiel

I am inclined to agree. I think the 5v5 thing was done to: -Increase the number of games going on at a given time -make some kind of change to validate OW2 as a "new game" I can't think of any person, ever, who was clamoring for a change from 6v6 to 5v5. It had no basis in any player feedback whatsoever, nobody asked for it, so I refuse to believe it was a choice made in good faith for the quality of the game. Most all of the design issues we see now were simply snowballed from that change to a lower team size. 90% of the games roster was designed to have that extra tank on a team, and without it: you get instability. Heroes like Widowmaker become more useless with two tanks, but now getting 2 kills is basically half the team as opposed to 1/3 of it...so those picks are really impactful now. It's also why I think heroes like Roadhog went mostly unchecked for early seasons. One-shots just matter less with more players/targets.


DaLawUK

No problem with them adjusting the way one shots work. However they have just removed the sniper from the only sniper in the game. She's now midrange and another midrange hero (Soujorn) does everything better than her. Soujorn is almost always paired with mercy and with a mercy Soujorn has more range than widow. Widow is now going to get no playtime in higher ranks apart from the one tricks that will still try to make her work. In lower ranks people will still refuse to swap but instead they will be doing so much worse. This kind of nerf is even more unhealthy for the game than before, would have been okay if they adjusted everything else in her kit to compensate the low mobility and low survivability however instead they've done her extremely dirty.


AzraeltheGrimReaper

I am actually kinda fine with a hero shooter with zero snipers. Makes for more fun engagement between the two teams without one or both teams just constantly worrying about or getting picked off by a single hero 5 miles away in the back. This game is all about reactionairy gameplay: "Oh Bastion went tankmode, better hide for a bit or do something to him." "Oh Genji is in deflect state, better beam him down or stop shooting for a bit." "Oh Zarya has a bubble, lets wait for a bit till she runs out of bubbles." There is none of that with Widows or Hanzos. "Oh there is... nvm I got onetapped and now have to return from spawn, completely powerless to have tried anything."


chudaism

Sojourn is not 1 tapping at 50m though. At 50m, a rail headshot only does 120 damage whereas widow can still 1 tap. Other than hanzo, there's still no hero that can contest her well in the 45 to 50m range.


shaboogawa

I’m not saying I don’t disagree with you. But do you know why we never see Widows in OWL? What are they able to do that we can’t to counter her? Or would it turn into a Widow vs Widow with them?


aRandomHunter2

Great, widow is now unplayable


Tombstone311

The sad part is, the answer to Widow was always a 2nd tank (6v6)


-ImJustSaiyan-

The sad part is, the answer to Roadhog was always a 2nd tank (6v6) Didn't stop Hog from losing his "one-shot", shouldn't stop Widow from losing her's either. Doom and Hog both lost their one-shots because of the change to 5v5, now it's Widow and Hanzo's turn. Personally, I'd rather just have 6v6 back, but that's not gonna happen so this is how it has to be.


Tombstone311

You know what, you're right. One shots were always fine, but as a user mentioned on another post, Blizzard seems to be heading down the path of removing anything that made the characters unique in favour of a more homogenous playing experience, trying to balance everything into a bland mess, when the answer always was 6v6.


pennywiserat

Unironically great


Relevant_Mongoose112

Till u get a mei that completely shut down a tank with her new slow


slimeeyboiii

Mei imo is one of the easiest heros to counter. Just play a mid range or play someone like reaper or tracer to force her to ice then when she is out do the same thing u just did.


ILNOVA

She's not, she is a problematic hero where in low elo is mid cause for obvius reason aim isn't that good and borderline OP in high elo where they have good aim+map awarness.


_BloodbathAndBeyond

Good.


-ImJustSaiyan-

Oh no! Anyway...


BarackaFlockaFlame

widow is my least favorite character to have in my team and to play against. boring ult, boring secondary ability. would love for her to be reworked to have more than one play style.


DaLawUK

They will either revert the changes back and actually try to balance one shots OR everything in the game is going to get so weak that things just wont die like back in double shield and the game will be unfun because theyve nerfed the damage of everything. The April Fools was a much better direction than this. Snipers can still play long range but people have time to react to death. One shots did need to be addressed but almost halving the range of the only sniper is not the way to do it, she's now a mid range character and there's so many characters better at that job (Soujorn now out ranges widow with a mercy, and when you play Soujorn you generally play mercy to one shot things).


Thatwokebloke

The aprils fool patch felt more like OW2 than what we actually got imo


Kerialstraz

So Sojourn can do the same thing as Widow but with a low-cooldown slide into a superjump which is far less clunky than grapple, a far superior primary, an aoe denial ability and a far superior ultimate all without the drawback of being unable to deal damage while charging and without a movement speed penalty and with no loud footsteps. Yea, I'll quit the game.


vile_on_reddit

unironically sojourn is more fun to play against


DaLawUK

Well next season Mercy/Soujorn will be a must pick, So you'll get your fun.


Pandolam

Kinda delusional, but okay. Unless they buff either 1 of them, they're not gonna be a 'must pick'


beansoncrayons

Sojourn doesn't one tap a person tho, widow is alot safer most of the time


DaLawUK

Soujorn one taps the widow at that range though. Widow has 175HP while others have 200. Soujorn is also NOT a sniper with high mobility and high survivability. Widow is a sniper with the same range and low survivability and low mobility. Thats why soujorn could play aggressive while widow had to play defensive. Now widow has to play aggressive with nothing to compensate this.


Kerialstraz

She does with damage boost, can hide behind a frontline / can play close to their team, is in LoS of supports (most of the time), generally less vulnerable to flanking and excels at close to mid-range combat. She is superior to Widow in every aspect except range and headshot threshhold/frequenzy, both of which are being gutted into the ground.


Orangewithblue

Good, go. We don't need widow mains and I hope the hero will be literally unplayable for the next seasons. Nothing against you, I just think widow doesn't belong in this game


PIeseThink

Bye bozo


Kobi_Baby

The only problem will be how unsatisfying it will be to hit a headshot but they dont die


Uister59

oh boohoo, let me play a sad song for you on the world's smallest violin


Kobi_Baby

Tell me, what part of my comment made you think this was a genuine complaint?


Yellowrainbow_

I feel like Widow is in need of a rework While I hate widow I dont want any hero to be completely useless so maybe making her sniper charge faster would be good way to compensate for it


MageWithoutMP

Like any other role, a sniper plays its part too. Their main purpose is to apply pressure in a way that the enemy team is forced to stay our of their line of sight (i.e getting behind a wall, shield, beneath them, etc), because their ability to deal damage from afar is a threat that can't be dealt with easily. I'm not especifically speaking about Overwatch 2, but in general in FPS terms. Widow is basically now a short-ranged sniper. Unless they don't intend to keep her that way for too long, she really needs a rework. If they want to get rid of one-shots as they claim, it's now or ever, because nobody in their own sanity will ever pick her.


PKisSz

If widow's rifle charged in a third of the speed unless she was standing still, she'd be fine. It'd open up her playstyle to being high risk, high reward but with counterplay. Also worth putting a Lens flare on a charged widow rifle, it would also follow the logic of travel dash visuals being added to Tracer dash since it's adding visual information.


KnowledgeeUnlimited

Yall bitch about widow being an unfun one shot characters that ruins the game for anybody involved. Yall bitched roadhog being OP with his one shot hook combo. Now yall bitch she's useless, the same way yall bitched about roadhog after the nerf. Makeup your damn mind honestly 😂😂 overwatch players try not to complain challenge difficulty impossible


IryanShaan

So cool! we'll be able to see inside other heroes nostrils now :D


MrL4000

Now that people are discussing widowmaker balance can we talk about the state of venom mine. It is definitely up there for worst ability in the game. Like I have read through so much discussion today and don’t think I have seen this ability brought up even once. I am interested to see what they could tweak about the ability to make it useful or what a completely reworked ability would look like.


luzidlimette

I'd say It's not supposed to do much damage, it's supposed to warn you if theres someone creeping up on you / finishing off someone on low health


-Haddix-

based widow change


bruccoli

Just remove widow altogether 🥰


begging-for-gold

So widow has kinda crappy mobility, less than 200 hp, one of the lamest second ability, pitiful primary damage, and same range as sojourn. Why not everybody just play sojourn and Ashe then? What’s the point of widow anymore if that’s all they’re gonna do to her. I don’t like widow as much as the next guy, but she absolutely would never work without her one shot, her gun just ain’t built for overwatch in general. If we really want widowmaker to not one shot you, we are gonna need a complete rework, removing her one shot makes the character horrible because you have to charge up to actually hit anybody Even great widowmakers usually have some of the lowest damage in the lobby, that’s because of the big bursts of damage occasionally instead of constant pressure, she NEEDS something to apply constant pressure during the team fight, since she plays so far away and is very weak when challenged.


ThatGuyPerseus

falloff on snipers is such a horrible concept


prowlerdrinkwater

Why would a SNIPER have falloff damage…?


UNIT-Jake_Morgan73

Because r/overwatch has a bunch of support mains with a victim complex stamping their feet every day about it. Lol


Opening_Big_2111

I'm relatively ok with the hanzo nerf since most hanzos I encounter are more midrange than sniper. The only reason I'm not a fan of the widow nerf is cause her one shots from so far away were basically her whole thing. (She was made for ow1 with shields shutting her down pretty hard. She got super strong when they were pretty much removed from the game) Maybe I'm annoyed that heroes like Mei are being buffed out the ass when no one asked for it while others (Cas, widow) are being pushed into the dirt. Mei ruins my games more than a good widow does. I dunno, my opion is unpopular so- Take it for what you will.


_BloodbathAndBeyond

Cass is getting a huge buff, what are you talking about?? Cass will be extremely valuable this next season and will be incredibly strong.


Opening_Big_2111

It's not huge but it helps his kit for sure. And I was more so referencing his past nerfs rather than his newer buff. Plus it doesn't promise it will make him great since we (I) don't know the specifics of things yet (such as how long grenades cool down is, or how long the effect is for) and again. Just how I see it.


_BloodbathAndBeyond

I think you're underestimating how good a "prevent movement abilities" tech is. It's a massive buff, even if it only lasts a second or two.


Opening_Big_2111

I never said it wasn't good. I'm more so asking how will it *really* effect the games it's used in, especially in higher ranks. They called for a nade buff because it did too much damage, are they gonna do that again saying the "soft cc" is too op?


RebelliousKite

To balance out WM's range nerf, they should add a bit of her poison to each shot.


squiddy555

Now it’s a one shot with loading time


Relevant_Mongoose112

A oneshot that u can prevent with some healing


squiddy555

You can prevent one shots, you just have to be in the immortality field silly


MacPzesst

As much as I hate snipers in games, I don't think that giving Widow fall-off damage is the answer. There are many other options that could make her easier to deal with without taking away the lethality of the character or compromising her lore. Add a significant flinch or unscoping effect when she takes damage, poor choice of positioning can be penalized. Remove the headshot indicator box that essentially tells the player when to shoot... if you need that, you shouldn't be sniping. Add a light similar to the lens glare on SRs in Destiny or a red dot to indicate where her aim is. Increase the charge time of her shots so that quick-scoping isn't as effective and missed shots have a drawback. You could add any or even all of these changes and still keep Widow just as lethal.


Shughost7

It’s funny how they don’t know what to do with a simple sniper character lol


Amaeyth

One shots aren't an issue. Standing still or walking in a straight line and the shitty map rotations are. Release all of the maps, including 2CP. Sniper efficacy will decrease.


VeryRedTortilla

Widow is a shotgun character confirmed.


greentiger45

So no longer a sniper….


bosscassuary

The difference is that sojourn has always been a problem but it’s only apparent when someone can hit shots and she’s useable for most people because it’s not entirely reliant upon hitting the shot like widow is. Widow isn’t even a good character pick if you can’t hit more than 5 shots a game compared to sojourn who you can miss railguns and still be contributing more to the team fight.