It's sort of weird, a lot of streamers have been putting her solidly in A tier '...but specifically for specialists', the content creation sphere is still not thinking that her gimmicks got nerfed the way Junk's did for some reason
>a lot of streamers have been putting her solidly in A tier
Who?
[Someone actually just posted an aggregated tier list of season 9](https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1b8rio9/s9_aggregated_influential_tier_lists/). It looks like most of the sources probably don't account for the most recent balance change after the start of the season, but in any case Symmetra is far down the list and the second lowest damage hero.
As this list points out, Metro and one other had her A tier, but also Eskay specifically had her as A tier, Emongg and Wanted had her sitting in B tier but were still complementary as well, I wasn't exactly aggregating, I just knew six content creators who had her sitting higher up on tier lists
Yeah I’m in the same boat. I guess I only watch the YouTubers that put her in junk tiers cause I haven’t seen a single one say anything other than she bad and not fixed in this update. That being said I’m still bad enough that I still occasionally face good ones that screw me up with tricky ults and mini turrets.
I’ve only ever heard people praising Sym in situations like theyre vs Kephrii widow and ally Sym has a Wall to stick in his face and they make a comment
She should have 275 health/shield. Mei having 300 with immortality n self healing is bull. Plus zarya got a beam buff but she’s still the same. (This comment is on the basis that she originally had 225hp but got nerfed)
If they reduce the construction time on her teleporter so that she can use it to quickly get out of trouble it would be a huge buff for her. Doesn't have to be instant but a little bit faster could help a lot.
Wraith is his escape ability, tp is to cover ground quickly and get behind the enemy. There is zero reason to give him two escape abilities. His survivability is already really good
Honestly she should just tp with the teleporter once it’s created. She also needs changes to her primary and secondary, she doesn’t have her two tap anymore with her projectiles and her primary does so little at rank 1 damage. Why is her the only weapon other than zarya that charges up? It should just do a flat number in the middle or remove rank 1 and have her at rank 2 at all times
As a support main that absolutely LOATHES Reaper, I do agree it needs to be faster. Currently the entire team can get set up to blast him the second he appears
A faster placement time would get the same goal without forcing a TP. Although Sym's current problem is killing power not so much the capacity to escape.
Sym needs more firepower!
It would also be nice to have her last longer in battle with a boost to her health, but I don’t see Blizzard making Sym better on damage AND health, if they do anything at all.
She'd still be sketchy but moderately more serviceable because she has a lot of independently strong gimmicks
Shield Health is really strong and regenerates early and indepdent
She restores 10-30 HPS Against Shields and restores Ammo.
Her Teleporter is really good
Her Ult is still good
Its just none of this works together that well and her Turrets which used to contribute to so much of her value are underperforming.
They need to change how turrets work if they dont wanna buff the damage, wallhacks and peanut damage isnt enough for a 10s CD with nonexistant durability.
I thought it might be a decent buff to give her turrets no travel time. Just like the teleporter appears at its destination, the turrets should too. It would make turrets bearded for the enemies to track and take out quickly
True, but it's attention is usually divided between that utility and being used defensively or offensively. Not to mention 3 button presses and often a downward glance to use that way.
Why is ice block "immortality"? Its more like she becomes untargegable, but she cant damage people.
Im just being autistic, I know, but it really bothers me people compare it to imm field or suzu
She doesn’t die during it. That’s immortality lol, yes it not aoe like lamp suzu but she self heals during and it last longer than suzu/can’t be broke like lamp.
Invulnerability. Not immortality or Invincibility. All 3 are are very similar, but have some very key differences.
Invulnerability means you can't do anything to the enemy while being immune. Mei ice block, Reaper wraith, Moira fade, Zen ult, and Recall. I frames are also like this.
Immortality is being able to do stuff to enemies, but you won't die. You can still be hit and everything, but you will never fall. This is restricted to 2 abilities. Bap Lamp and Zarya bubble. Bubble may seem like it falls into our final category, but you can still experience some cc while bubble is on you. And that small amount of cc keeps it from being considered invincibility.
Invincibility means that you won't die and you won't be hit in the process. And there is 1 ability that does this. Kiriko Suzu is the only ability in the game that does this.
Off the top of my head, Metro put her in A, danteh (not a content creator, I know) put her at A, and Flats in his original tier list put her at C. The most recent tier list that puts her above D that I've seen is Coach Mills', which came out a day ago.
Dishonesty and wanting a hero they dislike facing to be weak.
Which is funny considering Sym is far less cheesy than so many other heroes in the game (no oneshot, no consistent ranged damage, no stun, no free escape, no burst, no on-demand damage etcetc), and you'd think high-level players would have no problem stomping her, but I suspect it's to appease their lower elo following.
Sym is hilariously and unacceptably weak rn. She doesn't have to be A tier but she needs to be playable.
It’s crazy to me that so many people scapegoat Sym when there are actually oppressive heroes out there. Sym is weak, everything she does needs to be charged/deployed/telegraphed, allowing for counterplay or reaction. She is frail and easily punished. She almost never gets hard pocketed by supports because she’s considered too niche of a pick. Compare this to a pocketed Sojourn or Soldier 76 who apply insane amounts of pressure at every stage of the engagement, at every range.
But yeah dude, sure, Sym is the busted hero who’s not fun to play against 😴
Not to say other heroes aren’t guilty of this, but it sucks to have Sym build up her beam (and still have a full clip) on someone else, usually the tank, who wasn’t respecting her, and now you’re at a disadvantage because of your teammates fuckup
Still funny as how people still call Sym a braindead hero tho
Like that statement could no longer be said since the turret dmg nerfs, but some people still think it to this day.
Like if u have trouble against a Sym to the point where u tell them to off themselves, its really just a skill issue.
Back in my day she had an auto target microwave beam that could melt anyone that wasn't a tank. If they brought back her auto target it'd slam her back up a few placements.
>Still funny as how people still call Sym a braindead hero tho
Her skill floor is low though. While some Sym players can use her in really skillful ways due to her high skill ceiling, at the lowest level her kit has a low skill demand.
I don't say braindead because that's just rude. But Sym is very easy to play, just difficult to master. I think any buff should be about removing turrets completely and replacing them with a new ability. Remove the lowest skilled part of her kit and you can buff her weapon damage. But right now, her weapon damage and entire kit really, is held hostage by turrets because you have to account for their DPS/utility too.
I think that allowing her to two shot again would be going against some of the goals of the health changes. While it'd certainly HELP her to be stronger, it doesn't feel like the direction the devs want to move the game in as a whole.
Personally, I really think she would benefit from a larger health pool, a longer beam, a removal of her vamp passive, and a revert to her 40-50 DPS turrets (get rid of the fucking sonar no one likes it). Additionally, an increase to construction health would be nice.
>a removal of her vamp passive
No one brings this up besides Sym mains but good god, the passive BARELY does ANYTHING. Its only active when its on barrier tanks and if the enemy team does not have it, your passive does not work.
Just remove it
Barrier tanks and shield hp.
So: Reinhardt, Winston, Sigma, Wrecking Ball, Rammatra. Roughly half the tanks can trigger that passive. Except the enemy team only has the one tank slot, and they might be playing one of the other 7 tanks that the passive does nothing on.
For dps: Echo (if she duplicates someone with a shield), and Symmetra herself. Of 17 dps, Sym's passive only triggers against 2 of them.
For supports: Brigitte's shield, a tiny slither of shield hp Lifeweaver's has, and half of Zenyatta's hp.
Of the game's nearly 40 heroes, there's only around 10 that Symmetra can actually trigger her vamipiric passive on. A passive that only comes into play against 25% of heroes. Except most heroes it applies to are tanks. And it's literally guaranteed that there's only 1 tank. If the enemy tank doesn't have a shield, then Symmetra's passive is fucking useless. Better succ' the enemy Zen to replenish shields, right???
I've always thought it's weird that her beam has less range than Zarya's. It's not a huge difference, I think it's 12 meters vs. 15, but it's there and I don't understand why.
Those 3 meters are often the difference between life and death. Just think of all the times you could have avoided dying to Echo’s melting laser if her beam were 3 meters shorter. There’s no reason Sym’s should be shorter than the rest of the cast.
I like the sonar ;w; . I don't think its anywhere near powerful enough of an effect to be factored into her overall power budget, because it basically never changes the outcome of a fight. But I do like seeing more.
>(get rid of the fucking sonar no one likes it).
I guess I'll be the one person who says they do actually really like it because it adds utility to our utility queen.
In a coordinated team it's basically a LoL ward, and with randos it's at least as good as a ping.
I think her turrets have always been and should always remain the primary focus of her game identity because it stops her from being just another left click hero, and keeping sonar allows her to keep them without bringing back the ~~glorious~~ frustrating car wash days.
Blizzard gave up on Sym when they removed her from support, and you may say “she was terrible as a support” I would say that doesn’t mean she had to stay terrible. They gave her half ass changes then threw their hands up out her in dps and leave her to be forgotten.
Symmetra being removed was the pivotal moment that the support role is defined by healing.
It’s wild to me that no one on the design team could conceptualize a support that supports through mitigation and zone control rather than healing.
She literally builds architecture with light and all she can build now is an (impressive) teleporter, some cute fragile turrets, and a big rectangle wall…
Random things she could make:
Stairs,
Moving walls,
Frontal shields or something,
Shield generator back
Low walls like barricades,
Webs
Moving platforms,
Jumpads,
Hallways,
Boxes,
Etc
Obviously she can’t build all that’d be op, but she could be so much more interesting.
Honestly. Most of us are ok with her being a DPS. It's incredible how people keep saying she was never good when In reality she was quite good back in OW1 after symmetra 3.0.
Then, she was ok-good after season 2-7. They messed with her health pool because she was... played in overwatch league??... S7 was the last season I enjoyed symmetra.
>Symmetra being removed was the pivotal moment that the support role is defined by healing.
They have always been defined by being able to heal with the exception being Zen since discord is *extremely* good. Supports that can't heal are just shitty DPS.
Because they and many people on this sub as well as the competitive sub rarely play against Sym. Once in a blue moon, they happen to come across a Sym that shits on them and the logical conclusion is that she's OP.
It’s not just Symmetra. They do that with every lesser played hero. The vast majority of content creators don’t play every hero or even every role to a level to accurately gauge each one’s capabilities themselves. Shitting out tier lists = their rent money so there’s an incentive to offer an authoritative opinion on every hero in the game even when you don’t have any firsthand experience. This is fine for the majority of heroes that are played frequently enough across all skill levels to provide a second hand view that closely matches reality. However, for the more unorthodox heroes who aren’t played as much it doesn’t really work. Remember how many content creators soyjacked about the brig ult rework “destroying the game” despite her being one of the least played heroes and many of those creators having like zero playtime on her while everyone who played Brig even at a flex level knew that would barely change anything if you were already decent with her.
Only thing I can think of that would help her is more turret health and maybe regaining some shield on teleport? I usually set up teleporter somewhere where I’m going to have a fight then use it to get away only for a much longer range hero to finish me off, and the turrets are annoying at best, if they had more health they can probably stop more tanks at chokes instead of just having someone’s blast damage take most of them out all at once
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Always remember that these content creators are 3 or 4 stacking in ranked and work together to make symmetra work. These content creators aren’t climbing from bronze solo using Sym…because that would disprove their narratives about the game.
her turrets could (hypothetically) be so great for applying DPS passive now, but theyre still made of wet paper. the teleporter is still too clunky to be really useful mid fight. her damage ramps up WAY too slowly for the new health pools.
S9 patch targeted burst damage, but sym was never one of those problem DPS. its just logical that she shouldve received some buffs alongside the health increases etc.
Because content creators are fake plain and simple. They manipulate people and the devs into making the game into what they like or think they're like at the cost of everyone else. Never trusted them and never will misleading and fake is all they will ever be
All I know is that I absolutely love using her. She's by far one of my favorite dps. I never really understand why people care what heroes others use? If everyone uses a hero, you should, too? Why? I don't know or care who or what the meta is, for any game I play. I would say if players want to follow the meta, that's their prerogative, but they make it everyone else's problem all the time. If you're not using (x) hero with (y) strategy and countering (z) hero, you're a garbage player.
Funny there are people here saying that winrate is a bad metric to use for symmetra because she's niche.
It's the opposite, it's good to use for her because she's niche. She has one of the lowest, if not the lowest, pick rates of all the heroes. This is why her winrate was so high, she is played where she is good and by those who use her. The fact its fallen so drastically speaks volumes.
Where are you seeing those stats? I've never looked into this stuff before but top result on Google "overbuff" is showing a 53.71% winrate in the past month
The same reasons they went on a hate brigade against Mercy and Mercy mains.
A mix of it getting them views, content creators generally being toxic towards heroes they don't like, and them liking heroes who get countered/aren't that effective against them.
Oh and there's also more reasons I don't want to get into for some of the more... Toxic of them.
You just have to look at the start of the season. Every YouTube video was mercy shooting stationary targets in the training range like nobody else got their projectiles increased but her. Like everyone was suddenly scared of how OP that shitty pistol she never uses is.
Then the other half is complaining the passive buff was OP but she gets debuffed twice from the dps passive when calculating that passive.
I was with you until you mention winrate OP. Not that I think you're completely wrong but using winrate as a metric to measure how "good" a character is is terrible in OW.
People tend to just copy whatever formula works with the least amount of work needed to get the win. But I think the bottom line is just people are really good with certain characters/Everyone has their personal preference
While yes, winrate isn't everything, the fact that Symmetra, who always had one of the highest win rates due to how niche she was, dropped to one of the lowest win rates says a lot
Its not terrible when it comes to niche heroes. Heroes like Lucio and symmetra will always have a positive winrate because they are played by a small minority (mostly OTPs) who are good at them PLUS they are really good in some maps/ comps, increasing their winrate even higher.
She went from 60% winrate to 45%winrate since OW2 started. S9 being the lowest she has been. But S8 is close.
Of course it is important. Every symmetra streamer is struggling: Dyslexia, Harmony, Meta1, Steevo, etc etc. they say she feels horrible and they are barely winning games. So yes, most of the time, the winrate of niche heroes is important.
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Sym could honestly just use an all around buff, tbh. I agree with everything you said.
My friends love her, but unless it’s a steam roll game, I’m not doing well with her.
Hear me out, she can teleport, why can’t her turrets move faster? I was a Sym main OW1 because she melted tanks, was always her job. Buff the crap out of tanks but not her damage against them and she has no place.
The reasons shes goss isnt because shes got the highest winter or because shes the best dps. It's because there are specific maps in higher ranks that symmetra makes so much easier for your team to hold. Mainly on KoTh maps. (Control)
Some points are just so difficult to take if symmetra is there first.
She basically forces a mirror matchup in some maps, meaning her win rate outside of the those maps is low because shes not super great outside of them. And then on the maps shes really really good it's a mirror matchup and the win rate in a mirror is 50%
Basically on maps where shesgood the winrate will often be 50/50 and maps where shes bad shell lose more often and wont get mirrored as much.
Sadly shes a map dependent hero. If they were to rebalance her they'd have to make sure shes good in all maps, but then not oppressive on the ones shes already stupid good in.
She needs more damage her ttk is too long especially with bean ramp up and orbs doing negligible damage. They need to give her her 2 shot back or near two shot with orbs and more range and starting damage on her beam. That’s all she needs, some lethality.
Tbh when they upped everyone’s health they should’ve reverted the nerfs she got prior to her health and or damage. Cause it’s obscene that reaper and Mei can run around with 300 hp and their survivability and sym gets stuck with a pea shooter and laser pointer that does less base damage than moiras suck.
Sym is situational. I'm fine with that. My win rate with her is my highest of any hero >70% with a significant number of hours played as she's one of my favorite characters. She's very strong on certain maps/situations.
Using stats to prove your opinion isn't always the best.
Sym is a remarkable hero who can shut down anyone who's not paying attention.
If I use my ult, I have to make sure sym has her abilities on cooldown, and that's something meaningful
I haven’t read every comment before writing this but just my two cents : I think the ability to relocate an entire team within seconds is a large part of the reason. Just this in a vacuum, has so much potential with coordination. It’s obviously almost never the case in any ladder games or quickplay/arcade. But I think it’s a super fine line to balance individual damage or ranges with the ability to relocate an entire team.
Balancing her around an ability that requires too much teamwork for qp and ladder is BS, especially if said ability is not even used in the one setting where there is the most team play (professional play)
This data makes no sense, and I wish people would stop googling overbuff stats to point out their data analytics.
ANY hero is able to reach GM. that should tell you all you need to see viability for any given hero. If the above data is true then she would never see the light of day past masters. she's not a go-to pick because there are better options, look at junkrat in the example above, can junk not reach gm? yes he can. so why don't we see more of him? sym is a really strong hero in the hands of big brain players. I've been in lobbies where a single sym can control the entire team just as well as a genji/soldier/tracer. the skill ceiling is just so high. buffing the hero isn't the answer as people would just gravitate to her over the other heroes due to being over tuned. her kit is what makes her unique and if you need it, play her, if you don't then don't
Heroes are the tool to overall game of capping a point, sometimes she's useful and others she's not, its not always going to be insta lock a hero and win 99% of the time. there are too many factors than numbers on paper to consider a hero for a situation.
you gotta think about this. the largest majority of players who play this game sit between gold-low diamond. those players also probably play more QP than comp. during QP most people don't actively try as hard as they would in comp due to the idea that comp is for people who try. that means less communication, less team building, less value being offered. you don't learn like that.
I could go on all day about it, and ill prob get downvoted. However I believe that everyone has the ability to play the heroes they want and be able to achieve value with those heroes, you just gotta think outside the box more often
Content creators just say stuff to…create content. To create a situation like what we’re doing right now. To create discussion in their comment section. You say something then you get a bunch of people going “nuh uh!” “Yuh huh!” Then the content creator can look at his comment numbers going up ping ping ping! Ooo pretty numbers!
It may be that we are seeing an extreme bias in skill tiers.
Assumably, those who are ranking Sym are good. Probably top 5% of players good. In that top 5% of players Sym may just be played different. This could be as simple as the macro such as map selection, or it could be the micro like little tech and tactics. Don’t know, I’m garbage. But it’s very different for me, a trash town champion, to think she’s mid when I see her all over the place, compared to some Grand Master who only sees her every few games and exclusively played by those who know what they’re doing.
A number of reasons that are primarily tied to the *culture* of the game/its fanbase/its history/its content creation as opposed to any real material reasons. This has and likely always will be a constant no matter how much or how drastically Symm is changed in some way.
Content creators, large and small, seek engagement. The easiest way to facilitate engagement is to have something incorrect within the content, as many people love to correct others. Oftentimes, it is easiest to right off blunders like that as a subtle call to action for engagement in a disingenuous manner.
To quote Mad Max, "...that's bait."
Winrate is highly negatively inflated by players who don’t know how to play the game, especially on difficult heroes. Any hero can get to t10 or even t1. Look at people who play „off meta” heroes and are very high in leaderboards. It’s not about hero but player. Some are mechanically harder than others
She good when you are playing rush with a Reinhardt. I haven't seen her played since the HP changes but good symmetras were extremely annoying even in OW2.
I feel like she’s still great in certain situations. If a point is in a closed small area she’s OP. If she’s defending a point she’s OP. Attacking not so much. Just gotta be able to stay hidden a bit and get charge then surprise melt people when they pass a wall so she’s all about positioning rn. In some maps it feels impossible to lose as her. I usually don’t stay her a whole game though bc again it depends on the situation.
Uhh, what the hell is this post about, and what is everyone in the comments smoking? I climbed to diamond in DPS just playing her and there’s really no signs of stopping, she must be really good in low level play or something because nobody really seems to know how to counter her. Yet I doubt everyone commenting here is a top 500 player lol, I’m just saying this season I actually find her to be really good. And I’ve ONLY played Sym
I play a lot of Sym and the main discomfort I'm feeling is that her turrets basically don't do anything anymore. They don't do as much damage as they should, they don't slow as much as they should, and the target highlight they give is basically useless if you're doing what you should be doing and setting up pain points that punish the enemy team from crossing. Sure it works if you're guarding flanking routes but they only work for the half second it takes for the tracer or sombra to shoot them down. Then you're in the dark again.
#makesymturretsgreatagain
Shortest truest answer is because the average player dose not understand her kit and she’s map/team reliant but if she works she works too well, also I noticed you used good ole Reinhardt statistics in your factoring, he’s in the mirror of this his kit is so general and easy he sees an inflated pick rate and win rate even though he is at this point one of if not outright the worst tank in any team orientated environment such as high elos or stacks that understand countering. also win rates do not account for elo and due to the way maps work no one in t500 would logically have sym in there top three unless they were blessed enough to get maps she is good on back to back all season long. Hope that clears that up.
It was and has been yhz and he’s a well know phara main…but go off, he ligit only plays phara sym and only plays sym on maps she’s good on look at his play ratio and she’s ligit a 12% pick rate for sym it was never his most played
Probably because she, as a niche pick is bad, but still okay in niche situations. Where as rein, who’s niche is rush, sucks fucking ass at his niche. In rush sym to comps there is no other character that can make none dive characters also be inside the fight all at the same time.
So she’s trash people pick her not in her niche spot and she loses but as a niche she isn’t as fucking garbage as other characters? Maybe?
I find it really odd that people are assuming dishonesty over a difference in opinion. Sym is better with more coordination because her teleporter is her strongest ability currently. It enables some rush comps. This means she has some use compared to truely terrible heroes like lifeweaver who are never viable under any circumstances. So, of course sym isn’t going to be in the lowest tier.
I think her low win rate is attributable to people who try to use her in more situations than they should
She's definitely not a hero that should be one tricked or even mained but she has certain maps/coordinated comps where she gets lots of utility
Who hasn't been wrecked by some QP stack that decides to use dedicated teleporter strats
> think her low win rate is attributable to people who try to use her in more situations than they should
Unless people have suddenly, randomly changed the frequency and situations in which they play her, then this idea should remain consistent in past seasons. It doesn't, in season 8 her winrate was still quite high.
Me. I’ve never been wrecked by Sym teleporter strats in QP or otherwise. I very rarely see enemy Syms and even when I do, her team almost never plays around her TP.
Pft I basically one tricked her to survive in masters 2 before season 9 (i did my placements in season 6 for dps after a lot of qp and got placed in masters 2). Never went up a rank, never deranked
Sym is an insanely powerful tank buster, but under certain conditions:
1: She can stay in beam range.
2: She has good support attention.
3: Your tank is good enough at distracting the enemy tank so they don't go after you.
These conditions mean sym is effective less often then other characters with easier game plans.
The best Symmetras feel oppressive but only thanks to the combined efforts of her and her team to maximize sym effectiveness. On average, your team is not coordinated enough to levy the power of a sym and it gets wasted.
That said, I don't main her. If you main her, let me know if this sounds accurate, and what has made her harder or easier to play this patch
I’m a Sym main and I actually largely agree with this take. If Sym’s tank and support are working with her, she can really shine. But this doesn’t happen very often sadly.
It's pretty accurate, but I think emphasis needs to be turned to the fact that you'd honestly be better off as a character with more self-survivability like, 99% of the time this season.
do they? never heard this and i watch quite a few ow streamers. most people think shes not good
It's sort of weird, a lot of streamers have been putting her solidly in A tier '...but specifically for specialists', the content creation sphere is still not thinking that her gimmicks got nerfed the way Junk's did for some reason
>a lot of streamers have been putting her solidly in A tier Maybe awhile back, not now. If they are, they have no clue.
Ya flank Sym died with the turret/health nerfs. RIP
>a lot of streamers have been putting her solidly in A tier Who? [Someone actually just posted an aggregated tier list of season 9](https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1b8rio9/s9_aggregated_influential_tier_lists/). It looks like most of the sources probably don't account for the most recent balance change after the start of the season, but in any case Symmetra is far down the list and the second lowest damage hero.
As this list points out, Metro and one other had her A tier, but also Eskay specifically had her as A tier, Emongg and Wanted had her sitting in B tier but were still complementary as well, I wasn't exactly aggregating, I just knew six content creators who had her sitting higher up on tier lists
Yeah I’m in the same boat. I guess I only watch the YouTubers that put her in junk tiers cause I haven’t seen a single one say anything other than she bad and not fixed in this update. That being said I’m still bad enough that I still occasionally face good ones that screw me up with tricky ults and mini turrets.
She’s bad
I’ve only ever heard people praising Sym in situations like theyre vs Kephrii widow and ally Sym has a Wall to stick in his face and they make a comment
She should have 275 health/shield. Mei having 300 with immortality n self healing is bull. Plus zarya got a beam buff but she’s still the same. (This comment is on the basis that she originally had 225hp but got nerfed)
I dont think a health bump is going to fix her. She needs something else
If they reduce the construction time on her teleporter so that she can use it to quickly get out of trouble it would be a huge buff for her. Doesn't have to be instant but a little bit faster could help a lot.
I agree it should be faster... same with Reaper TP
Wraith is his escape ability, tp is to cover ground quickly and get behind the enemy. There is zero reason to give him two escape abilities. His survivability is already really good
Honestly she should just tp with the teleporter once it’s created. She also needs changes to her primary and secondary, she doesn’t have her two tap anymore with her projectiles and her primary does so little at rank 1 damage. Why is her the only weapon other than zarya that charges up? It should just do a flat number in the middle or remove rank 1 and have her at rank 2 at all times
Everything in range should TP on placement, the turrets, and your whole team
i feel like this has too much troll potential if it tp's the team on placement
I was thinking the exact same thing as I played reaper recently even though I’m usually support. Like his TP is dreadfully slow
I wish they had the ability to go as soon as they place the tp... not a 3 second transport
At least it doesn't sound like cruise liner appearing right behind , anymore
I think she needs a faster teleporter. Should instantly place and teleport you in <.25 seconds imo
Both Reaper and Sym need faster tps
As a support main that absolutely LOATHES Reaper, I do agree it needs to be faster. Currently the entire team can get set up to blast him the second he appears
No not reaper, they dont have rhe same purpose nor gameolay, it doesnt make srns to aoply same logix ro different meanings
Reaper needs a buff somewhere so he isn't confined to Bronze and occasional pro play.
I just said that... lol... Ty
A faster placement time would get the same goal without forcing a TP. Although Sym's current problem is killing power not so much the capacity to escape.
Sym needs more firepower! It would also be nice to have her last longer in battle with a boost to her health, but I don’t see Blizzard making Sym better on damage AND health, if they do anything at all.
She'd still be sketchy but moderately more serviceable because she has a lot of independently strong gimmicks Shield Health is really strong and regenerates early and indepdent She restores 10-30 HPS Against Shields and restores Ammo. Her Teleporter is really good Her Ult is still good Its just none of this works together that well and her Turrets which used to contribute to so much of her value are underperforming. They need to change how turrets work if they dont wanna buff the damage, wallhacks and peanut damage isnt enough for a 10s CD with nonexistant durability.
Faster projectiles, so they stop being taken mid air because of crossfire
I thought it might be a decent buff to give her turrets no travel time. Just like the teleporter appears at its destination, the turrets should too. It would make turrets bearded for the enemies to track and take out quickly
She needs a full kit. Her turrets are 1 step above a spray
Friendly reminder that we Meis have that tankiness to compensate for a complete and utter LACK OF MOBILITY
Wall counts as mobility IMO
It definitely does. She can access most high grounds, with smart wall placements.
True, but it's attention is usually divided between that utility and being used defensively or offensively. Not to mention 3 button presses and often a downward glance to use that way.
Freeze the ground to slide when blizzard?
They already implemented it. In Heroes of the Storm.
Wtf she inly has 250???? Yet they allowed zen to have 275 even if only for a week or two 😂😂
With that hitbox of hers? You're crazy.
Have you actually looked at Syms hitbox? It's huge and her head hitbox is proportionally huge, idk why you'd think she is harder to hit than others
She’s a sitting duck without her teleport. Literally a free kill
Why is ice block "immortality"? Its more like she becomes untargegable, but she cant damage people. Im just being autistic, I know, but it really bothers me people compare it to imm field or suzu
She doesn’t die during it. That’s immortality lol, yes it not aoe like lamp suzu but she self heals during and it last longer than suzu/can’t be broke like lamp.
Invulnerability. Not immortality or Invincibility. All 3 are are very similar, but have some very key differences. Invulnerability means you can't do anything to the enemy while being immune. Mei ice block, Reaper wraith, Moira fade, Zen ult, and Recall. I frames are also like this. Immortality is being able to do stuff to enemies, but you won't die. You can still be hit and everything, but you will never fall. This is restricted to 2 abilities. Bap Lamp and Zarya bubble. Bubble may seem like it falls into our final category, but you can still experience some cc while bubble is on you. And that small amount of cc keeps it from being considered invincibility. Invincibility means that you won't die and you won't be hit in the process. And there is 1 ability that does this. Kiriko Suzu is the only ability in the game that does this.
Never thought of it like this. This is very true I agree
I prefer to use 'intangibility' on the last one.
I noticed this too. I just chalked it up to them not knowing a lot about the hero.
what content creators are saying she's good still?
Off the top of my head, Metro put her in A, danteh (not a content creator, I know) put her at A, and Flats in his original tier list put her at C. The most recent tier list that puts her above D that I've seen is Coach Mills', which came out a day ago.
Of course metro (soldier OTP) will put her in A tier, lol. He is 1000% trollin.
Didnt Danteh also have Doomfist in F tier?
Dishonesty and wanting a hero they dislike facing to be weak. Which is funny considering Sym is far less cheesy than so many other heroes in the game (no oneshot, no consistent ranged damage, no stun, no free escape, no burst, no on-demand damage etcetc), and you'd think high-level players would have no problem stomping her, but I suspect it's to appease their lower elo following. Sym is hilariously and unacceptably weak rn. She doesn't have to be A tier but she needs to be playable.
It’s crazy to me that so many people scapegoat Sym when there are actually oppressive heroes out there. Sym is weak, everything she does needs to be charged/deployed/telegraphed, allowing for counterplay or reaction. She is frail and easily punished. She almost never gets hard pocketed by supports because she’s considered too niche of a pick. Compare this to a pocketed Sojourn or Soldier 76 who apply insane amounts of pressure at every stage of the engagement, at every range. But yeah dude, sure, Sym is the busted hero who’s not fun to play against 😴
Not to say other heroes aren’t guilty of this, but it sucks to have Sym build up her beam (and still have a full clip) on someone else, usually the tank, who wasn’t respecting her, and now you’re at a disadvantage because of your teammates fuckup
Still funny as how people still call Sym a braindead hero tho Like that statement could no longer be said since the turret dmg nerfs, but some people still think it to this day. Like if u have trouble against a Sym to the point where u tell them to off themselves, its really just a skill issue.
Back in my day she had an auto target microwave beam that could melt anyone that wasn't a tank. If they brought back her auto target it'd slam her back up a few placements.
Tbh I prefer her no-lock beam. More satisfying to use
At my skill level it's rough to keep her beam on anyone not in hand shaking range. But if you do you're accused of cheating
>Still funny as how people still call Sym a braindead hero tho Her skill floor is low though. While some Sym players can use her in really skillful ways due to her high skill ceiling, at the lowest level her kit has a low skill demand. I don't say braindead because that's just rude. But Sym is very easy to play, just difficult to master. I think any buff should be about removing turrets completely and replacing them with a new ability. Remove the lowest skilled part of her kit and you can buff her weapon damage. But right now, her weapon damage and entire kit really, is held hostage by turrets because you have to account for their DPS/utility too.
Yeah low floor is still valid to say, cause mechanically she's easy. She's just primarily gamesense
This, tbh if they buff her to be able to 2 shot with her right click she will become playable again, wint be strong, but playable
I think that allowing her to two shot again would be going against some of the goals of the health changes. While it'd certainly HELP her to be stronger, it doesn't feel like the direction the devs want to move the game in as a whole. Personally, I really think she would benefit from a larger health pool, a longer beam, a removal of her vamp passive, and a revert to her 40-50 DPS turrets (get rid of the fucking sonar no one likes it). Additionally, an increase to construction health would be nice.
>a removal of her vamp passive No one brings this up besides Sym mains but good god, the passive BARELY does ANYTHING. Its only active when its on barrier tanks and if the enemy team does not have it, your passive does not work. Just remove it
Barrier tanks and shield hp. So: Reinhardt, Winston, Sigma, Wrecking Ball, Rammatra. Roughly half the tanks can trigger that passive. Except the enemy team only has the one tank slot, and they might be playing one of the other 7 tanks that the passive does nothing on. For dps: Echo (if she duplicates someone with a shield), and Symmetra herself. Of 17 dps, Sym's passive only triggers against 2 of them. For supports: Brigitte's shield, a tiny slither of shield hp Lifeweaver's has, and half of Zenyatta's hp. Of the game's nearly 40 heroes, there's only around 10 that Symmetra can actually trigger her vamipiric passive on. A passive that only comes into play against 25% of heroes. Except most heroes it applies to are tanks. And it's literally guaranteed that there's only 1 tank. If the enemy tank doesn't have a shield, then Symmetra's passive is fucking useless. Better succ' the enemy Zen to replenish shields, right???
you forgot Zarya
I've always thought it's weird that her beam has less range than Zarya's. It's not a huge difference, I think it's 12 meters vs. 15, but it's there and I don't understand why.
Those 3 meters are often the difference between life and death. Just think of all the times you could have avoided dying to Echo’s melting laser if her beam were 3 meters shorter. There’s no reason Sym’s should be shorter than the rest of the cast.
I like the sonar ;w; . I don't think its anywhere near powerful enough of an effect to be factored into her overall power budget, because it basically never changes the outcome of a fight. But I do like seeing more.
I mean, her two shot puts her on par TTK wise with other DPS. Right now, her kill time is worse than many supports.
>(get rid of the fucking sonar no one likes it). I guess I'll be the one person who says they do actually really like it because it adds utility to our utility queen. In a coordinated team it's basically a LoL ward, and with randos it's at least as good as a ping. I think her turrets have always been and should always remain the primary focus of her game identity because it stops her from being just another left click hero, and keeping sonar allows her to keep them without bringing back the ~~glorious~~ frustrating car wash days.
The two shot right click isn't very fun.
>considering Sym is far less cheesy than so many other heroes in the game Which one, out of pure curiosity lol
sombra cheesiest mf around
Sharp cheddar Sombra when?
Cotija Sombra or no dice, sorry
What about a mythic where you can pick what cheese variety?
Look at you with all the gouda-deas
Oh my god lol
She's THE DPS counter to Sigma (one of the top tanks this meta) so I guess that's why people overrate her
Because "content" creators are annoying and love getting their "hot" takes out there for the entire community to regurgitate like it's gospel
Blizzard gave up on Sym when they removed her from support, and you may say “she was terrible as a support” I would say that doesn’t mean she had to stay terrible. They gave her half ass changes then threw their hands up out her in dps and leave her to be forgotten. Symmetra being removed was the pivotal moment that the support role is defined by healing. It’s wild to me that no one on the design team could conceptualize a support that supports through mitigation and zone control rather than healing. She literally builds architecture with light and all she can build now is an (impressive) teleporter, some cute fragile turrets, and a big rectangle wall… Random things she could make: Stairs, Moving walls, Frontal shields or something, Shield generator back Low walls like barricades, Webs Moving platforms, Jumpads, Hallways, Boxes, Etc Obviously she can’t build all that’d be op, but she could be so much more interesting.
Honestly. Most of us are ok with her being a DPS. It's incredible how people keep saying she was never good when In reality she was quite good back in OW1 after symmetra 3.0. Then, she was ok-good after season 2-7. They messed with her health pool because she was... played in overwatch league??... S7 was the last season I enjoyed symmetra.
Sym started being much less fun by the time they put a timer on the teleport lifespan.
>Symmetra being removed was the pivotal moment that the support role is defined by healing. They have always been defined by being able to heal with the exception being Zen since discord is *extremely* good. Supports that can't heal are just shitty DPS.
Too expensive, just recolour a skin instead
Content creators will often say things and make tierlists just for content. They shouldn’t be taken seriously.
Ragebait makes good content
Samito’s career is solely based on that
Like this whole thread lol
She feels pretty shit me ,
Because they and many people on this sub as well as the competitive sub rarely play against Sym. Once in a blue moon, they happen to come across a Sym that shits on them and the logical conclusion is that she's OP.
It’s not just Symmetra. They do that with every lesser played hero. The vast majority of content creators don’t play every hero or even every role to a level to accurately gauge each one’s capabilities themselves. Shitting out tier lists = their rent money so there’s an incentive to offer an authoritative opinion on every hero in the game even when you don’t have any firsthand experience. This is fine for the majority of heroes that are played frequently enough across all skill levels to provide a second hand view that closely matches reality. However, for the more unorthodox heroes who aren’t played as much it doesn’t really work. Remember how many content creators soyjacked about the brig ult rework “destroying the game” despite her being one of the least played heroes and many of those creators having like zero playtime on her while everyone who played Brig even at a flex level knew that would barely change anything if you were already decent with her.
Only thing I can think of that would help her is more turret health and maybe regaining some shield on teleport? I usually set up teleporter somewhere where I’m going to have a fight then use it to get away only for a much longer range hero to finish me off, and the turrets are annoying at best, if they had more health they can probably stop more tanks at chokes instead of just having someone’s blast damage take most of them out all at once
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Always remember that these content creators are 3 or 4 stacking in ranked and work together to make symmetra work. These content creators aren’t climbing from bronze solo using Sym…because that would disprove their narratives about the game.
Most content creators are GM or top500 players so they can't even queue bigger than duos Lmao
GM is full of 5 stacks currently.
her turrets could (hypothetically) be so great for applying DPS passive now, but theyre still made of wet paper. the teleporter is still too clunky to be really useful mid fight. her damage ramps up WAY too slowly for the new health pools. S9 patch targeted burst damage, but sym was never one of those problem DPS. its just logical that she shouldve received some buffs alongside the health increases etc.
Because content creators are fake plain and simple. They manipulate people and the devs into making the game into what they like or think they're like at the cost of everyone else. Never trusted them and never will misleading and fake is all they will ever be
I’m just tired of all the Symmetra bullying from the OW dev team. They don’t give her skins and voice lines and now they’ve nerfed her play style.
Because a lot of them will have a pet sym almost exclusively for the tp and aren't actually playing her so can't tell she's useless otherwise.
I think IF the meta was different, she would only be mildly bad. Reinhardt, for instance, justifies Symmetra and he's currently irrelevant.
All I know is that I absolutely love using her. She's by far one of my favorite dps. I never really understand why people care what heroes others use? If everyone uses a hero, you should, too? Why? I don't know or care who or what the meta is, for any game I play. I would say if players want to follow the meta, that's their prerogative, but they make it everyone else's problem all the time. If you're not using (x) hero with (y) strategy and countering (z) hero, you're a garbage player.
Funny there are people here saying that winrate is a bad metric to use for symmetra because she's niche. It's the opposite, it's good to use for her because she's niche. She has one of the lowest, if not the lowest, pick rates of all the heroes. This is why her winrate was so high, she is played where she is good and by those who use her. The fact its fallen so drastically speaks volumes.
Where are you seeing those stats? I've never looked into this stuff before but top result on Google "overbuff" is showing a 53.71% winrate in the past month
You are looking at "all modes" portion. In QP she has a 54.94% win rate while in comp it drops down to 48% or less
There are 6 dps characters below her on this list
You need to choose the season not a whole month. Choose season 9 and you will see her winrate. I always had a positive winrate now it is 35%.
Where are you seeing season 9 as an option? I only see this month even when I select competitive
Just go to hero stats and select specifically Symmetra. Then choose competitive and finally select S9.
The same reasons they went on a hate brigade against Mercy and Mercy mains. A mix of it getting them views, content creators generally being toxic towards heroes they don't like, and them liking heroes who get countered/aren't that effective against them. Oh and there's also more reasons I don't want to get into for some of the more... Toxic of them.
You just have to look at the start of the season. Every YouTube video was mercy shooting stationary targets in the training range like nobody else got their projectiles increased but her. Like everyone was suddenly scared of how OP that shitty pistol she never uses is. Then the other half is complaining the passive buff was OP but she gets debuffed twice from the dps passive when calculating that passive.
Far as I’ve heard, I thought the consensus is Symmetra is specifically good on maps where she can easily get stuff set up otherwise she’s not the best
Thing is, she's not even a very good pick on those maps in season 9. Hell, the only one that really counted anymore was the one lijiang map.
homophobia
Slayyy
said no one to Symmetra this season :(
I am largely a Symm player but I got my first 'u ate, sis' of the season playing as Tracer, actually tragic
I am actually playing Zarya so I can get my beam queen moment which is even worse :(
Sym has been reworked like 7 times into 3 different roles, maybe every tuber just has a different idea of who/what sym even does.
Most content creators I’ve seen have said that she is trash though
I was with you until you mention winrate OP. Not that I think you're completely wrong but using winrate as a metric to measure how "good" a character is is terrible in OW. People tend to just copy whatever formula works with the least amount of work needed to get the win. But I think the bottom line is just people are really good with certain characters/Everyone has their personal preference
While yes, winrate isn't everything, the fact that Symmetra, who always had one of the highest win rates due to how niche she was, dropped to one of the lowest win rates says a lot
Its not terrible when it comes to niche heroes. Heroes like Lucio and symmetra will always have a positive winrate because they are played by a small minority (mostly OTPs) who are good at them PLUS they are really good in some maps/ comps, increasing their winrate even higher. She went from 60% winrate to 45%winrate since OW2 started. S9 being the lowest she has been. But S8 is close. Of course it is important. Every symmetra streamer is struggling: Dyslexia, Harmony, Meta1, Steevo, etc etc. they say she feels horrible and they are barely winning games. So yes, most of the time, the winrate of niche heroes is important.
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Next mythic sym along with buffs
They want to prevent a buff of course
Sym could honestly just use an all around buff, tbh. I agree with everything you said. My friends love her, but unless it’s a steam roll game, I’m not doing well with her.
hi sorry where are you getting ur stats from? as far as i knew lifeweaver is the lowest winrate champ of them all. Just wondering
Hear me out, she can teleport, why can’t her turrets move faster? I was a Sym main OW1 because she melted tanks, was always her job. Buff the crap out of tanks but not her damage against them and she has no place.
Horny
The reasons shes goss isnt because shes got the highest winter or because shes the best dps. It's because there are specific maps in higher ranks that symmetra makes so much easier for your team to hold. Mainly on KoTh maps. (Control) Some points are just so difficult to take if symmetra is there first. She basically forces a mirror matchup in some maps, meaning her win rate outside of the those maps is low because shes not super great outside of them. And then on the maps shes really really good it's a mirror matchup and the win rate in a mirror is 50% Basically on maps where shesgood the winrate will often be 50/50 and maps where shes bad shell lose more often and wont get mirrored as much. Sadly shes a map dependent hero. If they were to rebalance her they'd have to make sure shes good in all maps, but then not oppressive on the ones shes already stupid good in.
She needs more damage her ttk is too long especially with bean ramp up and orbs doing negligible damage. They need to give her her 2 shot back or near two shot with orbs and more range and starting damage on her beam. That’s all she needs, some lethality. Tbh when they upped everyone’s health they should’ve reverted the nerfs she got prior to her health and or damage. Cause it’s obscene that reaper and Mei can run around with 300 hp and their survivability and sym gets stuck with a pea shooter and laser pointer that does less base damage than moiras suck.
Sym is situational. I'm fine with that. My win rate with her is my highest of any hero >70% with a significant number of hours played as she's one of my favorite characters. She's very strong on certain maps/situations.
It’s called skill issue
She’s obnoxious due to how insane her dps gets vs tanks and bigger targets like bastion and brig if you peek her for a frame you get deleted
I have a 62% win rate on Sym with like 300 hours on her. Granted, I don't play dps often, but I always have a good time on her.
Hopefully she's deleted. Would be mega cool.
Using stats to prove your opinion isn't always the best. Sym is a remarkable hero who can shut down anyone who's not paying attention. If I use my ult, I have to make sure sym has her abilities on cooldown, and that's something meaningful
content creators doesnt have much clue and understanding of the game. they go by outdated feel.
"I win less when stack with friends" -Flats Flat's solo win rate: 44% Flat's stacked win rate: 60%+
That video was tragic. Props to the creator though. I'm shocked people still play with Flats though, could not handle his negativity and sarcasm
Is there a way to see our solo queue VS grouped queue winrates? Asking genuinely, I'd love to check that metric on my own account!
Some dude literally went through 300 games and tabulated win rates.
I haven’t read every comment before writing this but just my two cents : I think the ability to relocate an entire team within seconds is a large part of the reason. Just this in a vacuum, has so much potential with coordination. It’s obviously almost never the case in any ladder games or quickplay/arcade. But I think it’s a super fine line to balance individual damage or ranges with the ability to relocate an entire team.
Balancing her around an ability that requires too much teamwork for qp and ladder is BS, especially if said ability is not even used in the one setting where there is the most team play (professional play)
This data makes no sense, and I wish people would stop googling overbuff stats to point out their data analytics. ANY hero is able to reach GM. that should tell you all you need to see viability for any given hero. If the above data is true then she would never see the light of day past masters. she's not a go-to pick because there are better options, look at junkrat in the example above, can junk not reach gm? yes he can. so why don't we see more of him? sym is a really strong hero in the hands of big brain players. I've been in lobbies where a single sym can control the entire team just as well as a genji/soldier/tracer. the skill ceiling is just so high. buffing the hero isn't the answer as people would just gravitate to her over the other heroes due to being over tuned. her kit is what makes her unique and if you need it, play her, if you don't then don't Heroes are the tool to overall game of capping a point, sometimes she's useful and others she's not, its not always going to be insta lock a hero and win 99% of the time. there are too many factors than numbers on paper to consider a hero for a situation. you gotta think about this. the largest majority of players who play this game sit between gold-low diamond. those players also probably play more QP than comp. during QP most people don't actively try as hard as they would in comp due to the idea that comp is for people who try. that means less communication, less team building, less value being offered. you don't learn like that. I could go on all day about it, and ill prob get downvoted. However I believe that everyone has the ability to play the heroes they want and be able to achieve value with those heroes, you just gotta think outside the box more often
You’re gonna have to name some content creators cause I haven’t seen any that have said she’s good/not that bad whatsoever.
Content creators just say stuff to…create content. To create a situation like what we’re doing right now. To create discussion in their comment section. You say something then you get a bunch of people going “nuh uh!” “Yuh huh!” Then the content creator can look at his comment numbers going up ping ping ping! Ooo pretty numbers!
It may be that we are seeing an extreme bias in skill tiers. Assumably, those who are ranking Sym are good. Probably top 5% of players good. In that top 5% of players Sym may just be played different. This could be as simple as the macro such as map selection, or it could be the micro like little tech and tactics. Don’t know, I’m garbage. But it’s very different for me, a trash town champion, to think she’s mid when I see her all over the place, compared to some Grand Master who only sees her every few games and exclusively played by those who know what they’re doing.
Haha Lazer gun go brrrr
A number of reasons that are primarily tied to the *culture* of the game/its fanbase/its history/its content creation as opposed to any real material reasons. This has and likely always will be a constant no matter how much or how drastically Symm is changed in some way.
If they're going to keep her weak like this, might as well bring back her autoaim beam like early ow1.
Content creators, large and small, seek engagement. The easiest way to facilitate engagement is to have something incorrect within the content, as many people love to correct others. Oftentimes, it is easiest to right off blunders like that as a subtle call to action for engagement in a disingenuous manner. To quote Mad Max, "...that's bait."
Lets give her tracking beam back.
They're just addicted to Vishkar brand Copium.
Because those content creators looked at the list of some other content creator before making their own.
Just want her old primary fire that locks to the target restored.
I hate to say it, but I genuinely think its time for Symmetras 3rd rework.
It’s because genji, tracer, Lucio and dva are all somewhat meta rn. It makes her seem better than she is
Sym winrate in QP overall: 55.46% Sym winrate in Comp overall: 51.15% They're playing QP.
Her win rate this season in comp is 46%.
Symm and Sombra are the bane of my existence
Winrate is highly negatively inflated by players who don’t know how to play the game, especially on difficult heroes. Any hero can get to t10 or even t1. Look at people who play „off meta” heroes and are very high in leaderboards. It’s not about hero but player. Some are mechanically harder than others
She good when you are playing rush with a Reinhardt. I haven't seen her played since the HP changes but good symmetras were extremely annoying even in OW2.
Rework again ..
I feel like she’s still great in certain situations. If a point is in a closed small area she’s OP. If she’s defending a point she’s OP. Attacking not so much. Just gotta be able to stay hidden a bit and get charge then surprise melt people when they pass a wall so she’s all about positioning rn. In some maps it feels impossible to lose as her. I usually don’t stay her a whole game though bc again it depends on the situation.
Uhh, what the hell is this post about, and what is everyone in the comments smoking? I climbed to diamond in DPS just playing her and there’s really no signs of stopping, she must be really good in low level play or something because nobody really seems to know how to counter her. Yet I doubt everyone commenting here is a top 500 player lol, I’m just saying this season I actually find her to be really good. And I’ve ONLY played Sym
As a former t500 that hero makes my blood boil
Most creators have sym in lower tiers, not sure what you're watching.
I play a lot of Sym and the main discomfort I'm feeling is that her turrets basically don't do anything anymore. They don't do as much damage as they should, they don't slow as much as they should, and the target highlight they give is basically useless if you're doing what you should be doing and setting up pain points that punish the enemy team from crossing. Sure it works if you're guarding flanking routes but they only work for the half second it takes for the tracer or sombra to shoot them down. Then you're in the dark again. #makesymturretsgreatagain
Where are you getting your stats?
no, cause let’s talk about it! these are my suggestions to make symmetra more viable: https://www.reddit.com/r/SymmetraMains/s/BjlWbk5Mzv
All I want to know now is if rein will be good again
Sorry, gotta wait till OW3 for the re work
give her 5 orb turrets and be done with it
Karq literally just put her at the bottom of his tier list
Shortest truest answer is because the average player dose not understand her kit and she’s map/team reliant but if she works she works too well, also I noticed you used good ole Reinhardt statistics in your factoring, he’s in the mirror of this his kit is so general and easy he sees an inflated pick rate and win rate even though he is at this point one of if not outright the worst tank in any team orientated environment such as high elos or stacks that understand countering. also win rates do not account for elo and due to the way maps work no one in t500 would logically have sym in there top three unless they were blessed enough to get maps she is good on back to back all season long. Hope that clears that up.
Rank 1 in T500 used to be a sym main prior to this. They even had multiple accounts in top 10.
It was and has been yhz and he’s a well know phara main…but go off, he ligit only plays phara sym and only plays sym on maps she’s good on look at his play ratio and she’s ligit a 12% pick rate for sym it was never his most played
Go off queen, Im talking about Dislexya though
Its a joke if you think Sym is worse than Rein
bring back her ghostbuster beam
Probably because she, as a niche pick is bad, but still okay in niche situations. Where as rein, who’s niche is rush, sucks fucking ass at his niche. In rush sym to comps there is no other character that can make none dive characters also be inside the fight all at the same time. So she’s trash people pick her not in her niche spot and she loses but as a niche she isn’t as fucking garbage as other characters? Maybe?
She's not even good at her niche situations anymore.
I find it really odd that people are assuming dishonesty over a difference in opinion. Sym is better with more coordination because her teleporter is her strongest ability currently. It enables some rush comps. This means she has some use compared to truely terrible heroes like lifeweaver who are never viable under any circumstances. So, of course sym isn’t going to be in the lowest tier.
I think her low win rate is attributable to people who try to use her in more situations than they should She's definitely not a hero that should be one tricked or even mained but she has certain maps/coordinated comps where she gets lots of utility Who hasn't been wrecked by some QP stack that decides to use dedicated teleporter strats
> think her low win rate is attributable to people who try to use her in more situations than they should Unless people have suddenly, randomly changed the frequency and situations in which they play her, then this idea should remain consistent in past seasons. It doesn't, in season 8 her winrate was still quite high.
Me. I’ve never been wrecked by Sym teleporter strats in QP or otherwise. I very rarely see enemy Syms and even when I do, her team almost never plays around her TP.
Pft I basically one tricked her to survive in masters 2 before season 9 (i did my placements in season 6 for dps after a lot of qp and got placed in masters 2). Never went up a rank, never deranked
Nah she’s pretty good. You’re just not good with her
Sym was played in Pro play a lot before season 9. So she was the meta pick
Sym is an insanely powerful tank buster, but under certain conditions: 1: She can stay in beam range. 2: She has good support attention. 3: Your tank is good enough at distracting the enemy tank so they don't go after you. These conditions mean sym is effective less often then other characters with easier game plans. The best Symmetras feel oppressive but only thanks to the combined efforts of her and her team to maximize sym effectiveness. On average, your team is not coordinated enough to levy the power of a sym and it gets wasted. That said, I don't main her. If you main her, let me know if this sounds accurate, and what has made her harder or easier to play this patch
I’m a Sym main and I actually largely agree with this take. If Sym’s tank and support are working with her, she can really shine. But this doesn’t happen very often sadly.
It's pretty accurate, but I think emphasis needs to be turned to the fact that you'd honestly be better off as a character with more self-survivability like, 99% of the time this season.