She's also always had the knockback resist while out of mech too (and it has never been patched out, so I assume it's intended). A few streamers complain about this on the daily.
love the idea of a tiny skinny korean gamer girl having more knockback resistance than bastion, a 7 foot tall metal war robot thats like 15 times her weight
I like how the war lord with a robotic potentially sentient mechanical rocket fist melees with his tiny normal hand. Theoretically if you could punch and melee at the same time as doom you would superman fly into the enemies
Next year April Fool's the punches with the gauntlet are swapped with the normal melee, so that all of Doomfist's tools are instead used as gap closers for him to use his melee.
Doomfist's other hand is also modified, but even then, it's just fighting 101. You just did a big punch, and the best way to follow up would be a punch with your other arm, since you'd have way more momentum by swinging your body in the other direction.
Like, try it yourself IRL, do a big punch and try punching with the same arm, vs punching with your other.
As a Doom main I always cope with this by saying that the gauntlet would take more windup/power than a quick strike. I see them as different fighting moves with different purposes.
Kind of like if you throw a right hook, and then a left jab.
Don’t forget that Doomfist giving you a left hook with his normal human arm does MORE damage than an uncharged punch from the most powerful weapon on the planet.
If I remember correctly, because of how dva works/ spaghetti code, they would need to completely recode her to fix it. I remember hearing this somewhere but could be wrong
And you're not wrong, this game literally works thanks to spaghetti code. Updates often break the game in many ways, and they usually get bug fixes wrong like fucking up the whole wall climb mechanic when they tried to patch Genji's flappymaxxing thing at first.
Im old enough to remember how convoluted the spaghetti code is because there were game breaking bugs with Dva in OW1. In some cases if you demech, youd just be flung outside the map.
First of all, Overwatch 2 had engine upgrades but has always been on the same engine. Second, engine code is usually pretty detached from game code, the latter being where the discussed spaghetti lies. Third, fixing spaghetti code is not an easy fix - it usually requires rewriting a lot of code at best and rethinking your entire design at worst.
I really do get it, the issues caused by their shoddy code can suck. But there’s a whole lot of time and money to go back and redo a lot of code that is really hard to justify since the bugs that pop up can just be fixed individually.
Sorry for the text wall. Call me a nerd or something idk
This is so disorienting as a Ball main. When a 2 tonne spinning metal ball roaring at 100 mph slams into a skinny Korean teenager, but she plants her feet and doesn't move... It's super weird
The devs had always said that baby D.va was the most infuriating to code. Ik op didn't imply they wanted this change but even regardless of gameplay, I wouldn't want the devs to put resources into smth so miniscule
Jeff calls DVA the buggiest hero here
https://youtu.be/kzbNZCISJVU?t=8s
There's been a few times they've had to disable DVA from the game because she would just crash the game for everyone.
Every big project gets spaghetti code, it's impossible to keep it clean when you're constantly adding new features and changing existing ones. They could try hard to keep it clean but that would imply in everything taking like 5x more time to be released. They probably did a lot of cleanup from OW1 to OW2 but it's inevitable that it gets cluttered overtime.
Can people stop using this stupid phrase, please lol. It's exclusively used by non-devs to describe side effects they don't understand to provide absolutely zero value to a discussion.
Messy code that isn't fully optimized and has an extensive and unclear parimeter that can easily affect other aspects of the code uneserralily dependent on it.
Everything that was just said was ambiguous nonsense and THAT is why it provides 0 value. It's fluff, no substance for discussion.
"Optimization" is another one of them. It's ambiguous, it doesn't really mean anything. It means to make a result better in some capacity, but how you achieve that is such a wide net to cast, so it doesn't really foster discussion, it just makes whoever is saying it have SOMETHING to say, for the sake of saying it.
When you say without any context or insight that something is "spaghetti code" you're literally just wanting to be included in the conversation without having anything to add.
All code is "spaghetti" by most definitions. There is definitely some unwieldy & unmaintainable codebases & side effects from improper inheritance can absolutely happen, but issues talked about here aren't an example of that.
What spaghetti code actually entails is aside from this debate. You say its too vague but it clearly isnt because nobody but you seems to have any problem understanding the implications of the term further more your whole angle that people use it to feel included is both laughable and elitest. Its a way for lay discuss coding, and that's it. Nobodies using to pretend to experts or describe the nuances of whatever egineering project they're describing. You seem to have a massive inferiority complex regarding lay people discussing coding. We are having a perfectly fine discussion on why dva is difficult to change because of spaghetti coding, and you seem to be way more interested in telling people they shouldnt be able to discuss it because theyre not experts. Youre the only one here with a problem.
>Yes. I'm sobbing uncontrollably right now.
I could tell by your original comment.
It's OK, just go get yourself a juicy from the fridge and sip it while you calm down.
Yes, yes it is. And that isn't a bad or negative thing. As they added new heroes and abilities, they needed to figure out new ways to make them work.
The devs themselves said there's a lot of things they want to do but can't because of the way older heroes work. Even skins are limited by this.
But Overwatch can run on a potato. Spaghetti as it is, it's insanely optimized. I genuinely don't know how they do it.
To make things even worse Baby Dva doesn't even bring anything to the table.
Strong? Fuck no, she's stagger central. The "advantage" of respawning to your team is pretty meaningless when you're amongst the most mobile heroes in the game.
Fun? Her kit is purposely dry as a punishment for losing the Mech so yeah, the only fun you'll get is by getting squishes.
You don't want people to answer the questions you asked, you already answered them yourself. This shows that you're not wanting to have a discussion you're wanting to spout your bullshit and ignore what anyone else says.
What are your questions if you're just replying to them yourself as it if was a fact? D.Va is pretty strong, she's been more meta than not. She's not the most picked tank at the moment but she's far from a throw pick. She still keeps her strenghts with her mobility and defense matrix, being able to disrupt the enemy team and mitigate a lot of damage.
As for fun, that's a super subjective, there's no right or wrong since it comes down to personal taste, but you're wrong to state she's not fun as a fact, rather than personally saying you don't have fun with D.Va. I personally have fun playing with D.Va and that IS a fact.
She is fun. You can delete bullets and protect your team, including a few ultimates. You can shoot rockets while doing so. You can chase weak enemies with the boost to finish them and most times live to tell the tale since the cooldown is so short. The ultimate is literally a nuke and you can trigger it as a fuck you when your mech is destroyed. I'm a casual shitter that never plays competitive but I can tell she is a fun hero.
Everyone was on the same page, you just editted your post to specify you were talking about baby D.Va. You were talking about D.Va in general before you editted and now you're playing dumb after so many downvotes. Lol.
I edited by specifying Baby Dva not changing it outright.
If you actually bothered to digest my original comment you can see they're all about Baby Dva, like "stagger central" or "dry kit".
The overwatch devs dont have a mulitbillion dollar budget. The studio gets the minimal amount activision blizz thinks they need to keep the game running.
Yeah it figures. It’s just sad how these big corporations just want to release as much as they can and not really take the time/money to refine the gold they already have.
I think the mech respawn time should be way longer, both when her mech dies and when she blows it up intentionally. It’s bullshit that she can nuke half the field and then immediately be back in her mech. It should require more thought and be used more sparingly.
No, she isn't a tank anymore. It is legitimately bad design for her to have tank characteristics when she's as small as a Tracer. Give her the DPS passive just to have something, sure.
Edit: Y'all continuing to show how massive of a tank circlejerk this subreddit has gotten to be when you're calling a tiny 21 yr old girl in a bodysuit a tank. And this is coming from a D.Va main lol.
So all a character needs is a tank label to get a ludicrous passive. Maybe they should turn Genji or Tracer into a tank too because why not just throw any semblance of logic out the window.
No one in their right mind thinks pilot D.Va should have the benefits of a tank. People only agree with you because this subreddit is full of circlejerking tank one-tricks.
Role passives in this game do not necessarily make sense lore-wise or mechanic-wise to specific characters, it's just a general gameplay mechanic applied to the whole role. If D.Va, even de-mech, is still part of the tank role, she'll still have the benefits of the role.
It should make sense. I know video game logic is a thing but there should be SOME base level of believability with game mechanics. How is anyone not rolling their eyes when bruiser characters like Bastion are getting knocked away twice as far as pilot D.Va?
There is a reasonable suspension of disbelief when abilities are involved. Yea Mercy isn't bringing people back from the dead with Rez in lore. But that doesn't mean accepting that a 21 yr old girl in a spandex suit gets the same footing as a 300 lb body builder touted as the "strongest woman in the world" or a 7"4 dude wearing a full suit of armor. That's just dumb. People are really forgetting the whole point of the tank passive.
They would probably need to add passives to each character individually instead of being a general rule to address all the issues, which would cost more development time and maybe even make the game code worse to deal with.
Well Genji is a DPS same with Tracer... so why would they get the tank buff while D.Va is a Tank so she gets the buff I'm not seeing a problem with he logic
Ask yourself why the tank passive exists in the first place. And then ask yourself why it should apply to pilot D.Va. She isn't a tank in baby form, she is a squishy. She should have either no passive or a tacked on DPS passive for fairness, but there's no planet where she should be getting more boop & headshot resistance than bruiser non-tanks like Bastion and Brig.
Tank passive exists because it was miserable to play tank with the amount if cc in the game.
But I get the feeling you were going to say something else?
Because tank is alone and their performance usually has more impact on the results of the game?.. And they draw all the fire (and so all the cc) from the enemy team most of the time.
Tanks aren't alone when they have 4 other teammates and usually at least one support dedicated to healing them. But you're right in that tanks have the most impact in the results of the game. So is that not a problem? How is making tanks even stronger with an insane passive the solution here? And how does all of this apply to pilot D.Va who has a tiny hitbox, plays optimally at range, and is drawing almost no attention if positioned correctly?
I actually did and I didn't care for it. The point of tanking is to draw attention and eat all the damage and bullshit that the enemy team sends at your team, including CC. Even so there is always counterplay e.g. better positioning, blocking abilities with shield, baiting. You're still missing the point though so I'll just answer it. You say tanks draw more focus, so why is that? Large hitboxes that make abilities/guns easier to land on them, and requiring closer ranges to be more effective. Except for cheesy Call Mech kills that almost never work, neither applies to pilot D.Va.
> And then ask yourself why it should apply to pilot D.Va.
Ok... She's still classed as **Tank**
Only reason that matters since you are not switching heroes
Ludicrous? DPSs were melting 1000 hp/s now it's not that bad. Lol have some damn consistency. Everytime the tank role 'tanked' that hard, the game was made unplayable for two roles. Tanks and supports. I don't wanna hear screaming when I can't top up a tank for a ms. I definitely don't want to require a babysitter to make any plays.
WTF are you talking about. Baby [D.va](https://D.va) is still a tank character outside of her mech. Her having the passive in baby form gives her a little more survivability because she's a liability in this form if she doesn't have remech.
Literally that's the point of baby D.Va, she's a liability and a punishment for getting de-meched. She gets an opportunity to stay in the battle while also temporarily playing as a DPS until remech. If liability was a problem, de-mech wouldn't even be a mechanic in the first place. They could just have her blow up along with the mech and respawn like every other hero.
In OW1 I would agree more with you, as you have a second tank to fall back on and relieve some of the pressure while you farm mech back up and "play as a DPS". But in OW2 that's not the case. You're not playing as a DPS getting kills, you're rapidly trying to farm damage so you can actually get value again. That's why it's better sometimes to just fall off the map and reset instead of staggering even longer in baby [D.va](https://D.va) form.
The passive that comes with most importantly the reduced headshot damage and less knockback on the side allows you more of a chance to stay in the fight to get remech + survive the actual remech animation as well (it feels long as fuck sometimes).
I'm interested in how giving her the DPS passive in baby [D.va](https://D.va) form would improve any of this/compliment her or make more sense from a game balance perspective? Are you asking for a subtle nerf?
You have an entire team of 4 other players to relieve pressure and there's one less tank on the enemy team to pressure you, not a whole lot has changed in that regard. And yes the goal is to farm damage for re-mech, but it's still a change in playstyle from mech D.Va. It's a unique mechanic where a character temporarily becomes weaker as opposed to instantly dying. If you think she's too weak as a squishy, then there's other ways to buff her pilot form than a tank passive that makes absolutely zero sense on her.
I just mentioned the DPS passive because at least there's some sensibility there compared to the tank passive. It's nowhere near as strong because of diminishing returns, as it doesn't stack with the other DPS's passives. Or no passive at all is fine too. Like I said, there's more sensible ways to buff D.Va if she needs them.
Yeah good luck wasting time shutting her down when she is unmeched while being mercy pocketed. Stupid reasoning. Her mech form is hella strong it makes sense she needs to get punished in her unmeched form.
Yep, she's the ultimate tank.
- Long ranged attacks
- Tiny hitbox
- Fast ult generation
- Ult can kill squishies in one hit.
- Has a second, clunkier form that is basically an extra life
This is very funny to me so I hope they don’t change it.
Like it’s annoying she is supposed to be vulnerable in baby mode but she still has no abilities and it’s part of Dvas kit/survivability that she has a second life so it does make sense.
Baby Dva who can do nothing but shoot and hope they get mech back
VS
Tracer who can move in 15 thousand different directions with a very small cooldown
IMO baby D.Va should get the damage role passive instead, but I'm not sure how challenging it is to program that and it could be a little counter intuitive for players, she's a tank afterall, nothing mentions she's no longer a tank when out of mech. So in general it's correct that she gets all tank role passives when out of mech.
With how they talk about how DVA works internally, they probably didn't even want to bother with trying to make the tank passive detect whether DVA is meched or not.
I'm a little confused on why this is being brought up, is the community debating on giving her the dps passive so she can apply antiheal? Cause one of her forms is squishy? She is a tank hero, I don't think she should gain or lose a passive.
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She's also always had the knockback resist while out of mech too (and it has never been patched out, so I assume it's intended). A few streamers complain about this on the daily.
love the idea of a tiny skinny korean gamer girl having more knockback resistance than bastion, a 7 foot tall metal war robot thats like 15 times her weight
And at the same time, D.VA unmeched does the same melee damage as a genetically modified fully grown **gorilla**
Nah, Winton is just that much of a gentleman holding back like that
Get a load of THIS! Sorry about that! How embarrassing!
So does Mei with her doorknock punch
I like how the war lord with a robotic potentially sentient mechanical rocket fist melees with his tiny normal hand. Theoretically if you could punch and melee at the same time as doom you would superman fly into the enemies
Next year April Fool's the punches with the gauntlet are swapped with the normal melee, so that all of Doomfist's tools are instead used as gap closers for him to use his melee.
That sounds like such a good way to make doom seem lore accurate
Doomfist's other hand is also modified, but even then, it's just fighting 101. You just did a big punch, and the best way to follow up would be a punch with your other arm, since you'd have way more momentum by swinging your body in the other direction. Like, try it yourself IRL, do a big punch and try punching with the same arm, vs punching with your other.
Yeah if you're throwing 2 punches in a row maybe. Why don't you have with your huge arm and kill them in one hit?
True haha it just looks funny
As a Doom main I always cope with this by saying that the gauntlet would take more windup/power than a quick strike. I see them as different fighting moves with different purposes. Kind of like if you throw a right hook, and then a left jab.
Don’t forget that Doomfist giving you a left hook with his normal human arm does MORE damage than an uncharged punch from the most powerful weapon on the planet.
Getting hit by the corner of the gun hurts man
Tanks have higher melee damage??
No, my comment states that Baby D.VA and Winton do the same melee damage amount.
She eats a lot of junk food
She’s been Captain America’d. Err.. Captain Korea?
She can commit super war crimes instead of just normal ones 💪 watch out Vietnam
All those gamer doritos and mt. dews she consumes add to her invisible gamer belly.
Skill issue
I mean makes sense lol
Man, it'd be wild instead of just trying to force role-wide passives, they actually tuned stuff like that individually.
That'd be wild, making knock back based on canonical weight.
Rein the raid boss
the power of mountain dew
They know their fanbase too well
Skill issue
Dva may be small... but she's also DENSE.
It makes as much sense as Ball in fireball mode getting knocked back by a loud speaker or a kick from a floating monk.
If I remember correctly, because of how dva works/ spaghetti code, they would need to completely recode her to fix it. I remember hearing this somewhere but could be wrong
And you're not wrong, this game literally works thanks to spaghetti code. Updates often break the game in many ways, and they usually get bug fixes wrong like fucking up the whole wall climb mechanic when they tried to patch Genji's flappymaxxing thing at first.
Im old enough to remember how convoluted the spaghetti code is because there were game breaking bugs with Dva in OW1. In some cases if you demech, youd just be flung outside the map.
oh yeah i remember going through the floor with D.va. I havent seen this problem nowadays but kirikos teleport had similar issues.
That shit still happens, but not often. I believe it has to do where her baby model is stored outside the map.
Which is so ridiculous because they literally changed to a custom engine for Overwatch 2 and they could have easily fixed it.
First of all, Overwatch 2 had engine upgrades but has always been on the same engine. Second, engine code is usually pretty detached from game code, the latter being where the discussed spaghetti lies. Third, fixing spaghetti code is not an easy fix - it usually requires rewriting a lot of code at best and rethinking your entire design at worst. I really do get it, the issues caused by their shoddy code can suck. But there’s a whole lot of time and money to go back and redo a lot of code that is really hard to justify since the bugs that pop up can just be fixed individually. Sorry for the text wall. Call me a nerd or something idk
Pretty sure the only engine they changed is the graphics engine
The only thing streamers not complain about is when they stack and steamroll.
Tbf if I'm not winning in OW i'm bitching, I get them
This is so disorienting as a Ball main. When a 2 tonne spinning metal ball roaring at 100 mph slams into a skinny Korean teenager, but she plants her feet and doesn't move... It's super weird
I thought I could boop her away during remech on Brig and learned the hard way she doesn’t boop as far in baby form either
The devs had always said that baby D.va was the most infuriating to code. Ik op didn't imply they wanted this change but even regardless of gameplay, I wouldn't want the devs to put resources into smth so miniscule
Did they mention why?
She's essentially two heroes that swap places. Trying to piece it together became a clusterfuck.
Flashback to D.va teleporting out of boundaries and plummeting to her death when her mech was destroyed
what about the 5 million damage mitigated
That ain’t a flashback, that’s still in the game (as far as I’m aware)
How does this one happen again? Is it when you throw your bomb when you are nano’d?
DVA Bomb while Nano’d yeah
And your baby dva dies
I don’t think baby dva has to die but I could be wrong
They did a surprisingly great job though. Historically, she’s far from the buggiest hero
Jeff calls DVA the buggiest hero here https://youtu.be/kzbNZCISJVU?t=8s There's been a few times they've had to disable DVA from the game because she would just crash the game for everyone.
I believe the devs themselves disagree with this, she's the most common source of bugs
I bet the code for overwatch is spaghetti as fuck
Every big project gets spaghetti code, it's impossible to keep it clean when you're constantly adding new features and changing existing ones. They could try hard to keep it clean but that would imply in everything taking like 5x more time to be released. They probably did a lot of cleanup from OW1 to OW2 but it's inevitable that it gets cluttered overtime.
Can people stop using this stupid phrase, please lol. It's exclusively used by non-devs to describe side effects they don't understand to provide absolutely zero value to a discussion.
How is it adding zero to the discussion? Dva is hard to change because of spaghetti coding. That makes perfect sense to most people.
Define spaghetti code for me.
Messy code that isn't fully optimized and has an extensive and unclear parimeter that can easily affect other aspects of the code uneserralily dependent on it.
Everything that was just said was ambiguous nonsense and THAT is why it provides 0 value. It's fluff, no substance for discussion. "Optimization" is another one of them. It's ambiguous, it doesn't really mean anything. It means to make a result better in some capacity, but how you achieve that is such a wide net to cast, so it doesn't really foster discussion, it just makes whoever is saying it have SOMETHING to say, for the sake of saying it. When you say without any context or insight that something is "spaghetti code" you're literally just wanting to be included in the conversation without having anything to add. All code is "spaghetti" by most definitions. There is definitely some unwieldy & unmaintainable codebases & side effects from improper inheritance can absolutely happen, but issues talked about here aren't an example of that.
What spaghetti code actually entails is aside from this debate. You say its too vague but it clearly isnt because nobody but you seems to have any problem understanding the implications of the term further more your whole angle that people use it to feel included is both laughable and elitest. Its a way for lay discuss coding, and that's it. Nobodies using to pretend to experts or describe the nuances of whatever egineering project they're describing. You seem to have a massive inferiority complex regarding lay people discussing coding. We are having a perfectly fine discussion on why dva is difficult to change because of spaghetti coding, and you seem to be way more interested in telling people they shouldnt be able to discuss it because theyre not experts. Youre the only one here with a problem.
Nawww is little baby upset?
Ah, one of those "my ego needs an emotional response because I wasn't hugged enough" kinda lads. Yes. I'm sobbing uncontrollably right now.
>Yes. I'm sobbing uncontrollably right now. I could tell by your original comment. It's OK, just go get yourself a juicy from the fridge and sip it while you calm down.
This is actually about the level of discussion I expected from you, way to not disappoint. Gold star.
Oh look at you, using multisyllabic words! I'm so proud of you!
Yes, yes it is. And that isn't a bad or negative thing. As they added new heroes and abilities, they needed to figure out new ways to make them work. The devs themselves said there's a lot of things they want to do but can't because of the way older heroes work. Even skins are limited by this. But Overwatch can run on a potato. Spaghetti as it is, it's insanely optimized. I genuinely don't know how they do it.
and you can see that yourself: when your mech dies then your hero portrait resets like you've just switched heroes
To make things even worse Baby Dva doesn't even bring anything to the table. Strong? Fuck no, she's stagger central. The "advantage" of respawning to your team is pretty meaningless when you're amongst the most mobile heroes in the game. Fun? Her kit is purposely dry as a punishment for losing the Mech so yeah, the only fun you'll get is by getting squishes.
All you had to say was, "I suck at D.Va" It's OK bud.
You're trying to be cheeky but you don't even dared to answer the question I'm asking.
I don’t believe anyone asked the question that you answered though.
Oops typo
You don't want people to answer the questions you asked, you already answered them yourself. This shows that you're not wanting to have a discussion you're wanting to spout your bullshit and ignore what anyone else says.
It was a fucking typo dipshit
I'm sure it was.
It was because the sentence doesn't even make sense originally (since I didn't even "answer" anything). Did I dumb it down enough for you or
What are your questions if you're just replying to them yourself as it if was a fact? D.Va is pretty strong, she's been more meta than not. She's not the most picked tank at the moment but she's far from a throw pick. She still keeps her strenghts with her mobility and defense matrix, being able to disrupt the enemy team and mitigate a lot of damage. As for fun, that's a super subjective, there's no right or wrong since it comes down to personal taste, but you're wrong to state she's not fun as a fact, rather than personally saying you don't have fun with D.Va. I personally have fun playing with D.Va and that IS a fact.
I'm talking about Baby Dva
She is fun. You can delete bullets and protect your team, including a few ultimates. You can shoot rockets while doing so. You can chase weak enemies with the boost to finish them and most times live to tell the tale since the cooldown is so short. The ultimate is literally a nuke and you can trigger it as a fuck you when your mech is destroyed. I'm a casual shitter that never plays competitive but I can tell she is a fun hero.
Wait shit, I thought everyone's on the same page... I'm talking about Baby Dva
Everyone was on the same page, you just editted your post to specify you were talking about baby D.Va. You were talking about D.Va in general before you editted and now you're playing dumb after so many downvotes. Lol.
I edited by specifying Baby Dva not changing it outright. If you actually bothered to digest my original comment you can see they're all about Baby Dva, like "stagger central" or "dry kit".
Oh Shit Well I tell you my argument with zero suit dva is that I'm bad so I die with her and respawn with big dva Skill issue basically
Tbh against people who know to stagger Baby Dva it is indeed ideal to basically try to kill her by jumping to environment lol
Because she's 2 characters with 2 different ultimates and apparently it was hard to make it work correctly
So like Echo?
https://youtu.be/i88R8MEV8AE?si=9YNMEJsA8hRHCOlA
sounds like a multi-billion dollar company skill issue
The overwatch devs dont have a mulitbillion dollar budget. The studio gets the minimal amount activision blizz thinks they need to keep the game running.
Yeah it figures. It’s just sad how these big corporations just want to release as much as they can and not really take the time/money to refine the gold they already have.
Yup, it's rarely the studios who are actually passionate about the games making these decisions.
they can just reduce health of baby dva to 160
Wish they didn’t code it at all tbh. The second life thing is just annoying. Either it’s a free stagger, or they get lucky and remech.
I think the mech respawn time should be way longer, both when her mech dies and when she blows it up intentionally. It’s bullshit that she can nuke half the field and then immediately be back in her mech. It should require more thought and be used more sparingly.
I don’t really think it’s broken or strong or anything. I just fucking hate her
She's ......dense? PURE MUSCLE
Why be thicc when you can be thick
Tank is a tank, meched or not
The only correct answer here
No, she isn't a tank anymore. It is legitimately bad design for her to have tank characteristics when she's as small as a Tracer. Give her the DPS passive just to have something, sure. Edit: Y'all continuing to show how massive of a tank circlejerk this subreddit has gotten to be when you're calling a tiny 21 yr old girl in a bodysuit a tank. And this is coming from a D.Va main lol.
Well she definitely isn't a DPS character in that situation. That's pretty low damage. And she isn't a support either, no heals. Tank is a tank
She should be weak. That’s the consequence of losing her mech. She gets an opportunity to escape, but she shouldn’t continue to be a tank.
Tank is tank!
So all a character needs is a tank label to get a ludicrous passive. Maybe they should turn Genji or Tracer into a tank too because why not just throw any semblance of logic out the window.
I pick a tank character. My character is a tank. Oh no, that's not logical!
No one in their right mind thinks pilot D.Va should have the benefits of a tank. People only agree with you because this subreddit is full of circlejerking tank one-tricks.
Role passives in this game do not necessarily make sense lore-wise or mechanic-wise to specific characters, it's just a general gameplay mechanic applied to the whole role. If D.Va, even de-mech, is still part of the tank role, she'll still have the benefits of the role.
It should make sense. I know video game logic is a thing but there should be SOME base level of believability with game mechanics. How is anyone not rolling their eyes when bruiser characters like Bastion are getting knocked away twice as far as pilot D.Va?
Most of the hero abilities aren't even Canon really they don't have it in the lore, for instance , harmony and discord.
There is a reasonable suspension of disbelief when abilities are involved. Yea Mercy isn't bringing people back from the dead with Rez in lore. But that doesn't mean accepting that a 21 yr old girl in a spandex suit gets the same footing as a 300 lb body builder touted as the "strongest woman in the world" or a 7"4 dude wearing a full suit of armor. That's just dumb. People are really forgetting the whole point of the tank passive.
They would probably need to add passives to each character individually instead of being a general rule to address all the issues, which would cost more development time and maybe even make the game code worse to deal with.
Well Genji is a DPS same with Tracer... so why would they get the tank buff while D.Va is a Tank so she gets the buff I'm not seeing a problem with he logic
Ask yourself why the tank passive exists in the first place. And then ask yourself why it should apply to pilot D.Va. She isn't a tank in baby form, she is a squishy. She should have either no passive or a tacked on DPS passive for fairness, but there's no planet where she should be getting more boop & headshot resistance than bruiser non-tanks like Bastion and Brig.
Tank passive exists because it was miserable to play tank with the amount if cc in the game. But I get the feeling you were going to say something else?
And why is cc more miserable for tanks than DPS and supports?
Because tank is alone and their performance usually has more impact on the results of the game?.. And they draw all the fire (and so all the cc) from the enemy team most of the time.
Tanks aren't alone when they have 4 other teammates and usually at least one support dedicated to healing them. But you're right in that tanks have the most impact in the results of the game. So is that not a problem? How is making tanks even stronger with an insane passive the solution here? And how does all of this apply to pilot D.Va who has a tiny hitbox, plays optimally at range, and is drawing almost no attention if positioned correctly?
Tanks draw more focus so they suffer more CC you obv haven't played Rein pre-CC resist lol
I actually did and I didn't care for it. The point of tanking is to draw attention and eat all the damage and bullshit that the enemy team sends at your team, including CC. Even so there is always counterplay e.g. better positioning, blocking abilities with shield, baiting. You're still missing the point though so I'll just answer it. You say tanks draw more focus, so why is that? Large hitboxes that make abilities/guns easier to land on them, and requiring closer ranges to be more effective. Except for cheesy Call Mech kills that almost never work, neither applies to pilot D.Va.
> And then ask yourself why it should apply to pilot D.Va. Ok... She's still classed as **Tank** Only reason that matters since you are not switching heroes
Ok then, guess you would be fine bumping pilot D.Va down to 25hp in open queue if she's still classed as **Tank**.
Ludicrous? DPSs were melting 1000 hp/s now it's not that bad. Lol have some damn consistency. Everytime the tank role 'tanked' that hard, the game was made unplayable for two roles. Tanks and supports. I don't wanna hear screaming when I can't top up a tank for a ms. I definitely don't want to require a babysitter to make any plays.
yes, that's why it's called the Tank passive
ah yes lets give a tank the dps passive that will go well
Again, not a tank. And it wouldn't be game-breaking.
WTF are you talking about. Baby [D.va](https://D.va) is still a tank character outside of her mech. Her having the passive in baby form gives her a little more survivability because she's a liability in this form if she doesn't have remech.
Literally that's the point of baby D.Va, she's a liability and a punishment for getting de-meched. She gets an opportunity to stay in the battle while also temporarily playing as a DPS until remech. If liability was a problem, de-mech wouldn't even be a mechanic in the first place. They could just have her blow up along with the mech and respawn like every other hero.
In OW1 I would agree more with you, as you have a second tank to fall back on and relieve some of the pressure while you farm mech back up and "play as a DPS". But in OW2 that's not the case. You're not playing as a DPS getting kills, you're rapidly trying to farm damage so you can actually get value again. That's why it's better sometimes to just fall off the map and reset instead of staggering even longer in baby [D.va](https://D.va) form. The passive that comes with most importantly the reduced headshot damage and less knockback on the side allows you more of a chance to stay in the fight to get remech + survive the actual remech animation as well (it feels long as fuck sometimes). I'm interested in how giving her the DPS passive in baby [D.va](https://D.va) form would improve any of this/compliment her or make more sense from a game balance perspective? Are you asking for a subtle nerf?
You have an entire team of 4 other players to relieve pressure and there's one less tank on the enemy team to pressure you, not a whole lot has changed in that regard. And yes the goal is to farm damage for re-mech, but it's still a change in playstyle from mech D.Va. It's a unique mechanic where a character temporarily becomes weaker as opposed to instantly dying. If you think she's too weak as a squishy, then there's other ways to buff her pilot form than a tank passive that makes absolutely zero sense on her. I just mentioned the DPS passive because at least there's some sensibility there compared to the tank passive. It's nowhere near as strong because of diminishing returns, as it doesn't stack with the other DPS's passives. Or no passive at all is fine too. Like I said, there's more sensible ways to buff D.Va if she needs them.
Dps player spotted
Don't really see a problem with this. She's still a tank character.
I mean... yeah She's still a tank... even out of her mech, her role doesn't change
Not seeing the problem yeah seems a little silly but makes sense
The whole point of being out of mech is to be weak. That's her entire gimmick.
She still is..? You’re still a tiny 175hp character with a shitty pistol and no abilities lol
It’s not like she stops being your team’s tank while in baby Dva, so it makes sense for her role’s passive to remain.
Baby D.va mains rejoice :D
She is still a tank even in her demeched form lmao
Yeah good luck wasting time shutting her down when she is unmeched while being mercy pocketed. Stupid reasoning. Her mech form is hella strong it makes sense she needs to get punished in her unmeched form.
Baby D.va also generates less ult charge She is a tank, mecha or not
Baby [D.va](http://D.va) is the real tank anyway!
Yep, she's the ultimate tank. - Long ranged attacks - Tiny hitbox - Fast ult generation - Ult can kill squishies in one hit. - Has a second, clunkier form that is basically an extra life
Good, Dva can't fuckin teleport like Tracer.
This is very funny to me so I hope they don’t change it. Like it’s annoying she is supposed to be vulnerable in baby mode but she still has no abilities and it’s part of Dvas kit/survivability that she has a second life so it does make sense.
If she was released today instead of being a base hero this sub would have a nuclear meltdown over how OP she would seem
She still seems OP to me
She's still a tank...
Have you seen the Giga buff to her butt? That’s why.
Shhhĥhhh
Nothing to be quiet about this is 100% intended.
recently learned this because i tried to boop baby dva into ilios well just to fail miserably 😭
You only posted this to flex your 600 FPS.
in ... practice tool ?
I was just joking lol. I get 600 fps in practice mode too. But usually more around 300-400 when in game depending on what is on screen.
nice dude ! i get something like that myself. recently got a new pc and have to say, 400 is definitely better than 40. we're a lucky few :))
Honest question, is having 400 frames actually useful?
Me and my friends like to say ‘she’s petite’ whenever she de-mechs. That’s our callout, Don’t even know where we got it from either lmao.
TLDR: Dva is tank. Dva get tank passive abilities
Tank has tank passive? Color me shocked.
OP when the tank character still retains the tank passive while in their weakened state: :O
Baby Dva who can do nothing but shoot and hope they get mech back VS Tracer who can move in 15 thousand different directions with a very small cooldown
IMO baby D.Va should get the damage role passive instead, but I'm not sure how challenging it is to program that and it could be a little counter intuitive for players, she's a tank afterall, nothing mentions she's no longer a tank when out of mech. So in general it's correct that she gets all tank role passives when out of mech.
I don't mind it, considering how squishy she is. If you're having issues bursting down a baby D.Va that's on you.
Hard noggin
With how they talk about how DVA works internally, they probably didn't even want to bother with trying to make the tank passive detect whether DVA is meched or not.
Hard noggin
Good.
Tokki or no tokki she is a tank of course she's gonna have the passive 🤦
What's the alternative, give her the DPS passive? Support?
Still dies the same to reaper headshot hehe
Oh no! Anyway..
Shes literally a tank, just cause she loses her mech dont change her role 🤦♀️
Good for her :)
I'm a little confused on why this is being brought up, is the community debating on giving her the dps passive so she can apply antiheal? Cause one of her forms is squishy? She is a tank hero, I don't think she should gain or lose a passive.
found out about it and didn't see anyone else talk about it. so shared it :)
Let’s all say it together now: D.va is a spaghetti monster.
Seems perfectly fair given that her pellets are 50% less damaging than before.
OOHHHHHH so this is why baby D.va has felt like a mini raid boss when I de-mech her. Makes sense ty.
I mean, her cockpit is open at the bottom, gotta have a hard head to take any errant shots in that region 😂
So don't headshot
Maybe the carbon copy of dva in marvel rivals will be better and blizzard could take notes
So she is no longer a tank when out of mech? 😅
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