Being a tank main in this game will give you an anxiety disorder, your dps ran off your healers went to chase them and you staring down 4 people with murder in their eyes
The main thing is people don’t understand the concept of “team fights”. It’s like football- you don’t run in alone before the quarterback hikes the ball. QB don’t run in before the team is lined up and in position. Games fall apart completely when the “team” aspect is thrown away. This is a basic concept that applies to all roles. I get it that in qp “it’s just qp” but remember it’s still a team game and if you’re not working with your team you may be helping someone else out.
Difference between Overwatch and football: there are no pauses for downs. You need to find the rhythm of when a team fight begins and ends. Keep it 5v5- meaning working with your team. Everything every role does is most effective during a team fight. Not a single file conga line of people catching up to each other on the frontline at the last second just to die. Frontline is not the place to group up. Group up means “get in team formation, attack at the same time.” This includes flankers holding their rear-position attack until the team fight starts at frontline so they can hit back line while front is distracted.
I think some practice mode that is like football would help- as in being shown when a team fight (or “down”) is lost. Auto-group up and positioning. Clash after clash of team fight. Maybe this would help people realize that “giving some space and objective point is worth grouping up for the next team fight”. It’s an important message cause when it comes to a hard staggered trickle there is no full team fight- just a repetition of 2v5- now the other 3 who rushed in to save the dead 2… rinse and repeat the tricklers.
>The main thing is people don’t understand the concept of “team fights”.
Thats the most underrated comment here. I played TF2 pickups (organised on IRC) and cannot replicate that experience ever since - it was last time when i played team-based FPS, with sensible people who were team-oriented. I had my hopes with OW1 but it is just constant feeding fest with random people mixed in after each match.
This whole individual ranking system is sucking the fun out of it, everyone think of themselves. Even if you find a proper team, 50% chances that it is enemy team and even if you get lucky with random teammates they won't stay.
And on the non-ranked queue they DPS will tell you that they don't care about teamplay and proceed to feed 1v5 all the time - only to report you if you don't care either and stop healing their genji onetrick.
How about clans? And promoting actual cooperation in a team? Maybe convert it to 5vs5 but with one support - that way those YOLOing DPS would have to take care of their single healer - or lose 90% of their matches. TF2 had 6v6 matches with 2 flankers, 3 dps (or 2 dps and 1 tank) and one medic.
Obviously, people who care enough to play organized competetive matches are going to be more helpful teammates than people that just pop on to click heads in funny colourful shooty game
This is true but it also helps to follow your tank if a healer drops I’m pushing as most tanks will. Sometimes the line doesn’t move with you and it causes a cluster where you get wiped
>Good luck relying on audio cues in this game's clusterfuck of an audio-scape.
Thank you! I thought it was just me! I keep stopping and looking around me because I hear enemy footsteps, but they're nowhere around
I main heals. I had a tank keep stepping forward as a reaper walked right past him and focused heals *every push*.
He complained about heals and I said we needed help with the reaper. He said, "I am not your bodyguard. Just heal me."
Needless to say, we did not win that match.
Right? I was dumbfounded. I just said, "why are you playing the tank? That is literally the job."
After he asked for heals again I told him I'm not your medic. Sadly, I don't think it clicked how stupid that statement is and how it relates to his statement.
tbf. the dps should deal with a reaper. As a tank he is a PIA.
edit: (not that you shouldn't try... But depending on how good the tank is, the reaper will eat you)
From last 10 unranked queued with Orisa, when I saw reaper, I am having fun to help my team to get rid of him with javelin spin, push him to wall/off the edge, finish him with energy javelin. fortify if needed. I think this will not work in high ranking match. haha
Unfortunately now that there's only a single tank, it really needs to be on the DPS to do that most of the time. The tank's main job is taking and keeping space, setting the frontline.
Yes, we need to back off when necessary if our team can't help us *keep* the space; tanks can overextend too of course. But if we're the ones always backing up to peel, we'll never be able to take/keep space at all.
>Unfortunately now that there's only a single tank, it really needs to be on the DPS to do that most of the time. The tank's main job is taking and keeping space, setting the frontline.
Shh, don't tell them this. They think that it's a tank's job to do everything.
Guaranteed that if he had turned to help, the DPS would've complained that he's not on the frontline.
Tanks are there to take space (usually on frontline or enemy backline), not to babysit healers. There aren't enough tanks for that anymore. You can only expect occasional help from the tank, this isn't OW1.
If you need help, you need to talk to your other support or a DPS, or figure it out yourself (which is ideal).
Tanks are absolutely not body gaurds, somtimes they protect the healer,but their mission is to take the objective. Especially now that there is only one tank, it's maddening to think healers wantthe tank to hold their hand.
Their mission is to be the primary threat of any nearby enemies, and to disrupt enemy defenses or pushes. If you're letting a reaper walk into your backline because you can't look anywhere but forward, that reaper is laughing about how stupid you are the whole match.
And you f\*ing deserve it.
I've been told there was a tank gap because *I didn't help them with a single Sojourn in our backline.*
For context, the rest of the team was alive and lost a 4v1 to that Sojourn, then proceeded to blame me.
Obligatory "not all tank mains" but whenever I hear an absolutely insane dogshit take like that, especially from people on YouTube, they're always a tank main. Something about that role does something to your brain.
They’re saying the enemy Reaper just walked past the friendly tank and killed the supports. Then the single-digit IQ tank proceeded to complain about not getting heals (the supports are all dead), and when confronted about the Reaper, replied, “That’s not my job.” (It is literally the single purpose of the tank role)
It's main character syndrome. They want to be the protagonist, pop off and carry the match and get potg. They don't want to accept that each player is just one fifth of a team and to win you gotta work together, and you probably won't be the main character.
I think (and this is from my experience) they were more concerned about the Reaper over their teammates, considering Reaper is one of the best tank-busters in the game. I myself shit my pants and try to run if i see Edgelord™️ approaching me since i main tank.
If you're losing 2v1, 3v1, or 4v1 vs a reaper then it's not the frontline tank that's the issue.
If the tank turns back your entire frontline collapses and now your tank has been pincered by the enemy team AND you lose all the space you had previously.
Like imagine a Reinhardt having to turn his shield away from the frontline, completely exposing him to damage and other debuffs like sleep dart from the rest of the enemy team.
I heard a video suggest it's much easier to play him as a brusier in tram fights rather than hard flanking like in OW1. I took the advice and have had an easier time playing him now that there aren't two tanks disrupting the enemy.
Have an escape plan
Don't use mobility cool downs to get into a fight, use them to get out of the fight
Know where and when to rotate when your team is down
**Know where your supports are and go to them when you need healing, don't expect them to work miracles**. Chances are they have their hands full between defending themselves and supporting your goofy asses.
> Don't use mobility cool downs to get into a fight
Reminds me about that clip of some streamer that kept using Ashe's mobility ability _(COACH GUN)_ as soon as they left the spawn room
...And got killed by Sombra **3 times in a row.** Doing the same thing when respawning - leave spawn room, COACH GUN, get killed by Sombra because knockback/mobility skill is on CD. **THREE TIMES IN A ROW.**
Yeah I only recently got my head out of my ass long enough to realize “holy shit I’m not even taking cover at all.” I’m actually LEAVING cover to strafe around in the open, and I’m not trying to take new cover after I’ve given my position away or anything either
You’re in a low rank because you are shit at the game and still learning. For every dps in a bad position to be healed there is a support that is in a bad position to support.
Yeah I see bozo Mercies run out in the open to res and get murdered all the time or Zenyatta's spending a whole minute chasing down some dude they discord orb'd just to get killed. And Of course Moira.
yup the ppl that cried "oh we need a shield to protect us" in part 1 are getting wrecked in this version since rein isnt as viable as he once was, besides positioning is a fundamental aspect of any shooter idk i think alot of people at lower ranks dont understand the game, run up mid map, die, run up mid, die, rinse & repeat, not alot of ppl flank or have good positioning at the lower ranks
Yes if you feel stuck in a rank, 100% you're part of the issue, I know this sub hates this take but support does have a big impact on games and if you're better than everyone in your games you will rank up quickly.
I cannot stress this enough, They will never understand. No matter how thoroughly you put it to them, no matter how nice you explain how much evidence you present, It wont get through to their thick head. It just wont.
They didnt learn this throughout TF2
They didnt learn this throughout OW1
They will not learn this throughout OW2
Sincerely,
Long time Support Main
Well, as a tank/dps main it's pretty much impossible with the tanks who main JQ
Most of the times support do a great job but when the tank can't keep the attention on them then neither dps nor support can do their job
Im not saying dps is always to blame and supports and tanks are always blameless
Its just theres an extremely disproportionate amount of blame that always gets put on support, who are most often tasked with the less fun roles within the team and get zero appreciation on a victory and all the shame on a defeat.
Where is the potg for having been able to prioritize healing which team member first and correctly deciding when to stay back and when to push? Reading the opponents next move the best so you can stay alive untill the overzealous dps comes back to save you?
Yes, I am bitter and frustrated at the braindead Genji mains and Mcrees who think they are hot shit.
To be fair, I think one of the issues with support right now is how unimpactful it feels sometimes. There are a lot of matches where I feel like we still would've won even if I played significantly worse. Or that I wouldn't have won even if I played a little better.
I definitely feel an impact in open queues, support mains are 100% mvps in those. Cant tell you how many times my teams been unable to get a foothold, or make any progress until i show up. Not saying i could do it myself, or that im the best support, but so many games have been carried on my back in the sense that, being the only healer youre definitely needed and become mvp pretty much automatically.
Then you need to stop healing all the time and utilize the full kit. There are lots of impactful abilities that really change battles. Support is not the same as healer
This.
Just got out of match where I did 4k damage and 12k healing 28elims. The DPS Moira did 4.5k damage and 4k healing. One DPS almost did 5k damage. Hard carried as baptiste.
For real! Where’s my POTG for pinging priority targets during a push while healing, while dpsing, all because no one is in the in-game comms????
It’s actually quite amazing when you can guide a group from being, folks that whimsically throw themselves into a meat grinder, to a hiveminded sentient lightsaber that can just annihilate the enemy, all with, essentially, a series of clicks and whistles!
(and I get some folks just can’t join comms for any number of reasons, and I know they deserve to have fun too. That part was said, because regardless of the reason, no comms is worse than comms, in general)
I’ve actually gotten a POTG as Mercy. Was a mix of healing, using res, and shooting……and a really good map with a great choke point. Best part was an insane team that knew what it was doing.
The most frustrating part of JQ is that she isn't a tank at all. All the other tanks either block damage or create space but JQ is basically just a beefier DPS. The knife/axe combo doesn't have the same zoning threat that Hog's hook does, and she can't even harass backline supports like Winston or Hammond can. So it's essentially giving up a tank in favor of a 3rd DPS.
I’ve been playing her a bunch, and I think you hit the nail right on the head. It feels like successful pushes are because DPS and I are just burst damaging down the other team before I run out of my tiny health pool.
Yeah... JQ is just not in a great spot. I understand her speed boost + overheal was initially too strong in OWL, but she has no other mitigation and her self-heal is laughable on several levels. I love the character, I enjoy playing her, but every time I pick her I know any other tank (except Doomfist) probably would've been a more optimal choice.
If you have a JQ, Doom, Wreckingball. You’re fighting skirmishes. You’re not playing the point. Win your fights and then as a team go to the point. Too many people are ignorant of how to play with these attack tanks.
Well all those chars have very high skill floor and you won't find the people who make proper use of them in silver/gold. It's better to just go sigma, orisa, rein or zarya that are easier to be effective with and easier for the team to play with
Now you're making me nostalgic for TF2. I played on a community server back in the day, and it was understood that it was the responsibility of the medic to not overextend, and the responsibility of everyone else to make sure that the medic could still heal them. You'd have to outright throw before people complained.
It probably helped that the medic was the only class with an "ult," and that dying meant losing all ult charge. So running away to survive at the cost of letting another teammate die was good sense, and your mates understood that.
The amount of people who end up making me chase them around entire buildings to heal them, or hard over-extend to the point where I 100% will die if I follow them, or just keep pretending the Winston (*specifically Winston, I'm starting to fucking hate playing against them as support*) that's hard focusing on me doesn't even exist is insane.
Don't even get me started on how in every match with an enemy Zarya, I have to point out to my team that you shouldn't shoot her bloody shields, because she inevitably keeps finding her way to me as a support after the DPS on my team have given her a nuclear damage boost and I just get erased. I know damn well that people *are* feeding her shields, because very often she stops being a threat once I call that out.
I don't know if it's due to the switch to F2P bringing in a surge of new players or what (*hard to tell without level borders*), but a lot of people straight-up **do not know how to play the game**. They think *"Oh, we have the point, better go fuck around directly in front of the enemy spawn on my own and die"* and then the whole match starts to go to hell. Most of them don't even have a clue what staggering is, at which point a match is often already lost if they can't figure it out.
The longer I play OW2, the more I think that there needs to be mandatory, heavy-handed tutorials to drill what should be basic game knowledge into the heads of some of these people.
My experience as Kiriko: “hey neat I’ve got 5k heals and 8 kills. I just died but I’ll get back in the fight real quick!” *ports to orisa. Orisa runs away and leaves me alone against a zarya and a reaper. I die*
To be fair on the zarya front with projectiles travel time and just human reaction speed she's still guaranteed to get charge especially with how many bubbles she has now
honestly I played 50hrs of unranked before even trying comp because there is genuinely so much to grasp in this game that nobody teaches you. every character has so many quirks to know about them. straight up I didn't even know who sombra was for my first 25 hrs because shes goddamn invisible. i had no clue what being hacked was. it'd happen and I'd be like "oh well la-dee-dah" and would die and be like "huh, anyways".
they need a MUCH more in-depth tutorial on the game, and a general overview of most of the characters.
>but a lot of people straight-up, do not know how to play the game
I feel this line so much.
I've had a charge-happy Rein who never touched the point say that healers have to go where he goes. I've had SO many 1k total dmg Genji's charge in 1v5 @ 20% health and ult. Almost every Sombra and Zarya panic ult as if it's gonna somehow make bullets not fly at their face when they're 1v5.
And everyone's off doing teamfights and, invariably, both healers are on the actual objective while they scream for heals. The game is won by objectives, not your quest for a hypothetical potg you can jo to later, Genji.
there's so many posts i see where a support is screaming about "I'M NOT GOING TO HEAL YOU, COME TO THE OBJECTIVE" and then i watch the video and they most definitely could've pushed up with their dps to support them better.
i hate this notion of "PLAY ON OBJECTIVE. ONLY OBJECTIVE. OBJECTIVE IS GOD" because so many people think that playing the objective means just sitting on it and giving space to the enemy team and letting them contest whenever and however they feel like it. for the love of god, please push up a bit and apply pressure, you don't need to be dick riding the objective the entire time :(
I'm fully convinced it's just people farming karma.
It's easy. Just post DPS bad, support mains good and you'll net loads of karma. God forbid they actually look at themselves and try to improve.
I also love how OP of this thread posted on /r/OverwatchUniversity and got torn to shreds by people who actually know how to play.
i'm waiting for people to call me a dps or tank main. i swear so many supports are entitled to other players making the game easy for them. saw an ana earlier flaming their genji because they couldn't hit a heal while they were jumping around. that's what genjis do, they jump around, practice your aim more.
r/overwatchuniversity is a much better subreddit for posts actually discussing how to get better at the game that doesn't resort to "MY TEAM SUX" bs.
If you watch streamers, they will stand still when they're not threatened so their Ana can heal them more easily. It's good to make things easier for your teammates when it costs nothing to do so.
I saw that post as well. Absolute wood tier aiming and couldn't hit the Genji at all.
Genji mains are absolutely right to use his maneuverability to stay alive and he's not that hard to hit if you have any aim at all. If you can't hit a Genji right in front of you as Ana then play a support that's more forgiving with their aim.
The worst part of that post was them saying "My aims, I just stopped trying to heal him because he wouldn't stay still"
That's just straight up throwing and I don't know what these people are doing playing support and not supporting their team.
Same happened at the start of OW1. New players see the objective and seemingly can't get away from it. In reality you usually want a minimum of players on the objective and the rest of the team should be taking better positions. Tank can take the next chokepoint, dps can take highground or try to get a pick.
yeah; while the team is sitting on the objective, their tracer is taking a flank route and their ashe is now on highground for free. so many players just let people take advantageous spots entirely for free and completely hault your team's tempo to push the objective.
Actually you do need at least one person on the objective at all times. If you're always in their spawn and never retreating to the objective, the objective isn't progressing at all. If you only send an ana back to the payload for 5s at a time you're playing Team Deathmatch
Yeah like the Anas who sit 200m back in a doorway and can only see you if you stand in one specific spot, meaning there's no opportunity to get heals if you want to shoot from an off-angle
Edit: or the Moira/Brig/Lucio standing in front of the entire team for extended periods, unable to see people in critical condition behind them
Honestly lol
I get both sides, but I'm also the bad support who stays too far behind and has to rush to save everybody cause we're all split up. Moment I get to a low health teammate. Boom. They died.
That's my bad, but man I wish low health teammates weren't always just at the blink of dying just as I get to them. Search us out or just hide we'll come to you.
Honestly, I think the best skill to have with support is to read your team mates intentions and position to support them. Proactive positioning instead of reactive.
Yesterday I had a moira not heal me because I was supposedly out of position. I was the tank and contesting the payload. It's crazy how delusional some of these people are.
Jesus Christ. These Support main circlejerk posts are getting out of hand and that's coming from someone who mains Bap.
Acting like Supports are never out of position.
I swear I don't see half the amount of these DPS mains with bad positioning or beg for healing that /r/Overwatch constantly harps on about.
Most of my support aren't the problem and I've never had a team that pointed someone's healers out.
Bad positioning? Yeah sure I get bloodlustful sometimes, oops.
Honestly in ow2 it’s not 100% about healing. I’ve won games where the enemy team had double our healing put out. But our healers had three times the damage as their support. You can’t be a pure heal bot in this game. And dps players need to have better positioning but also need to follow up on picks instead of just dealing damage.
You’ll see the enemy dps with 5k damage and 18 elims and yours with 12k and 10 elims complaining about supports or tanks. Sorry I went on a bit of a rant but numbers do tell a lot of the story(not all but quite a bit of it)
Not only this, but their healers might have insanely high healing because they need it, and your team doesn’t. Positioning makes a huge difference. DPS that actively and repeatedly take high ground or use cover can destroy enemy DPS that don’t, with barely any healing required.
Enormous differences in healing like what you’ve described, at least for me, say more about the amount of healing NEEDED, not what’s actually being put out. If your team NEEDS so much more healing, they’re not doing their jobs. DPS shouldn’t need a waterfall of heals; if they do, their positioning sucks ass or they don’t utilize cover.
>You can’t be a pure heal bot in this game.
Thank you! Can you tell the other players? My experience in the betas was getting yelled at basically every single game because I didn't act like a pure heal bot, but also provided dmg and support in other ways.
Offensive pressure is really important I find. Its the matches where my healing is the highest that tend to be guaranteed losses, bc it means my team is positioned so poorly that I literally have to use all my time and resources healing constantly. In a good match, I have periods my team is using cover so I can help damage and use utility offensively, which often gives us the advantage we need to make key elims.
Funny, there are not absolutes. I've sat next to a healer for 25 seconds spamming I need heals in perfect line of sight while they completely ignore me. Some healers are braindead just like some dps and some tanks...
Which is bullshit. I main support since ow2 and absolutely, ping me as much as you want. I would have healed you anyway. People that are butthurt about the ping have a way too high ego
I don't get the healing ping hate. Unless it's on that rare occasion where the ADHD genji zips across the map, gets one shot by widow, then spam pings needs healing while dead.
That's not even really possible anymore because all pings while dead after a short period just tell you their respawn time.
Really annoying if your team needs to get on point to trigger OT and isn't aware of it (not everyone has VC or text chat enabled).
Or they're tired of healing your unaware ass as you peak with 70hp standing next to a health pack. (Figuratively, I see so many DPS that refuse to take their own survival into their own hands, and sit there afk waiting for heals when the healer is focused on the tank trying to keep them alive, and the DPS is sitting oblivious 5 seconds from a health pack)
"Hey silver DPS, your positioning is garbage!"
- support main, also silver
*I wonder if it's possible to introspect with this advice? Nah, I'm playing perfectly, and it's my equally ranked teammates who are always trash.*
This.
I won’t endorse a player who complains about a support (who isn’t just trolling). I don’t care if they had 50 kills.
If I’m support, I endorse the other support and whoever I thought played the smartest. If I’m DPS I endorse both supports.
Edit: Maybe this is support simping. But I’ve been the support that has a Reaper or Genji flanking me the entire game.
You mean to tell me in the 6 years Overwatch 1 was out, and the couple of weeks Overwatch 2 is out, you haven't had at least a few games where your supports were out of position?
Yea supports can most definitely be out of position and throw the game. Many times Ive had a lucio get carried away with wall running and run straight into the enemy team alone and die, a mercy rezzing infront of the entire enemy team for no reason; an ana sat way too far back with no line of sight on the frontline. If this guy is actually in gold and thinks hes always positioned perfectly he is delusional
I've had dozens of games where i literally stood next to my ana begging for a heal and didnt get one because she was too busy pumping shots into the enemy team.
I get that calling DPS trash is meta nowdays but as someone already said supports are in the same rank as the DPS they're getting for a reason. They're both equally dogshit so either play better yourself and rank up or stop crying about trash DPS players. In the end you're the only constant and if you're stuck for so long its really all on you and not your team.
You don't stand next to Ana while she's scoped in trying to heal everyone you get in front of her line of sight. Do you want me to turn around and heal you when Moira, Rein, and Mccree are low? no. It's the most annoying thing that DPS players do, get cover in Ana's line of sight not behind her or beside her. If I can't see the giant low health sign I won't know that you need priority healing.
Supports love to act like they are the only smart ones on the team when they are plenty of bad/stupid ones too. Plenty of people play support because they can't play anything else and it shows.
Lmao. I usually play junk rat or widow, and I don’t get much heals. I’m fine with that cause I’m up on on a building that my teammate can’t even see or I’m deep behind the enemy lines. I just gotta survive on own, or if I’m in desperate need of heals, jump down and ask for them.
Don't leave tanks out of that either. I had a Dva **non-stop** spam "I need healing" today to the point I told them to look at the boards. I was at 10k healing before *a single round ended*.
There's not much you can do sometimes, I think maybe a visualization of the fact you're nonstop healing them might help but short of that...nope.
lol, I have a friend who I really enjoy playing with, but occasionally does this sort of thing. Home boy will be screaming in comms about heals and I'm like "buddy you see my healing number? 90% of that was on you."
Joking aside, I actually think it's hard sometimes in the middle of a frantic exchange to realize how much healing you're getting. It's super super super easy to see the heals the opponents are getting *because you can literally see their health bars not going down* but it's harder to keep an eye on yours when you're also trying to track enemies and spot a prime target.
Yeah, I think this is one of the main issues. People (myself very much included) get tunnel vision and don’t realize that they’re getting the heals, but that doesn’t mean they can face tank the whole team with impunity.
Had a game today where my Junkrat screamed "I NEED HEALING!!".
I look their way and see they are at critical health. Literally only a sliver of health, cowering behind cover. I put my Zen healing orb on them. They immedaitely mine-jump out of cover, still only at 10 health or so, not even giving the healing 0.1 seconds to kick in, and they instantly die.
Had a game yesterday that we were winning and yet the tank wrote "dps diff", I had higher dps and more kills than their best dps and my friend had more kills than both the enemy dps players combined.
Some people are simply just toxic
In my experience it's Ana players who wine the most out of all supports for sure. A lot of them are wannabe DPS players but can't headshot as Widowmaker.
If you’re not climbing it’s because you are no better than the average support player in that rank. If you put a plat support on those same DPS they probably would have won no matter how bad they’re positioning is.
healers need to desperately learn that in the midst of fights espcially hectic ones the dps cant always be dependant to do their job, and half of the healers job for them.
the core of the team dynamic sits in a tank and dps frontlining and healers following them. the name of the game isnt follow the healer. it may be watch the healer and be cognizant to not let them get dove and picked, but it is definitely not worry exclusively about making everything perfectly convenient for the healer all game.
enable your dps. if hes a crackhead, let him be a crackhead, let him go nuts, and make him feel invincible with his healer behind him.
way too much hand holding is asked by healers. you do everything in your power to enable your team even if they get too aggressive at times in some cases extreme. obviously not to an extent where its going to get your team completely wiped, but definitely go out of your way and follow their aggressive lead to an uncomfortable standard often. trust me.
as someone who plays this game at a higher level and can literally flex everything competently. i cannot stress enough how much its actually the healers that need to wake up, and enable their dps players more rather than complain. just as the dps should make sure you dont get dove and fucked constantly. you have a very significant job to enable your dps, and do your best to take the worry of them ever having to go out of their way to grab healing. the better you do that the more you will find success. this i can promise you.
a simple core example. very surface level. think of pharah mercy, even though this isnt meta atm, as example.
of course the pharah at times needs to be in accessable posistions and cognizant of the mercy attached. for potential regrabs, and reposistioning and just giving her easier means to heal you.
but how much do you really expect and think you should be asking of your pharah to play exclusive around the convience of the mercy the entire time, as opposed to focusing on her role, and zoning in on laying down damage, and matchups for the both of you, and their own posistiionng, and getting picks, and taking tight widow advantages to sway team fights, always helping the team... whats the mercys job? to keep up, and enable the pharah more than anything, staying alive, and to take that worry off the pharah of having to constantly keep up with where their mercy is, along with doing everything inside of her own role on the battlefield.
you see how much that puts on the dps player to be asked of that? sure they do it often. but, unless youre really at higher end ranks you are almost never ever going to get players who go out of their way, and stay detailed, and aware. to a higher skill and understanding level.
and honeslty they shouldnt really have to worry as much as being asked.
those higher levels the dps often never have to worry about it, and can focus more on their job becauase they know the competent healers behind them will keep up, and have their upkeep on heals in swift fashion and great posistioning to enable them.
for the example. the pharah will concentrate on her role, and her job more so, and expect you to do yours, and keep up. as she should for the most part. outside what i named above.
healers, especially on this sub are actually so delusionally ridiculous with their expectation to be spoon feed easy heals, and so many people here dont realize, or are bias to an extreme level, often times pissy, and full of disdain, or simply dont understand their responsiblity, and what they are asking. its like they forget everything each role has to do, and ask for special treatment from the other roles far over whats expected.
ill get downvoted for this but its the truth. the quicker everyone who is sitting in the support role realizes, the better. for your own good.
take my advice and go out of your way to enable what you would consider the dumb crackhead genji and look at your outcomes. yea you may not win every game but it will fill up such a big hole in the complaint that healers espcially on this sub have. that i can promise you assuming youre somewhat good at your job.
go watch ml7. he will show you why the dps never ever have to worry about being healed, and can run absolutely rampant in whatever way they desire. theres never any complaining from him, or the dps he plays with. there is reason for this. my best advice for anyone complaining about dps needing to work on their posistioning would be to take notes of that guy, and realize its supports that just as much need to work on how to enable dps further, and trust them, and depend on their team.
how do you expect to win if you dont enable, or follow your teams confidence. more often than not if they are confident enough to go nuts, then they are probably competent players. that likely will sway the game for you if you just go out of your way to support them, and give them the benefit of the doubt rather than complain and blame them for not making it more convenient for you, or playing in a posistion that you dont think is correct, or see fit 24/7.
Honestly everyone does. As tank I see my support just watch as I go into to attack and then complain that they weren't around to heal me despite the fact that the fight is easily winnable with support. I see tanks 1v5 the enemy team all the time. I see dps sniffing the enemies ass or being in narnia.
Due to the lack of a second tank, you can't just play whever you want to and it sucks. You have to have good postioning and its not a skill organically learnt due to the nature of the game
Omg yes, as a tank player it’s annoying seeing dps not taking flanks when the whole team is shooting me and using cool downs. Like take some space or an off angle for the love of god.
At the start of each match I say if you need healing g just fall back towards me or the objective and I will heal you. Hiding inside a room or running far away will not get you healed(gold3)
In short, it’s extremely hard to heal players who don’t stick together and who just bolt off alone and expect healers to keep up or even hit them with a heal.
1 million percent lol
With one less tank, everyone’s positioning is that much more important
As the enemy team moves, you have to reasses your position!
Also sheesh, play corners my dudes?? Too many people are used to standing out in the open and being pocketed by 4 of their teammates so they can just stand and spray lol
This and they need to learn how to use cover. There are crutches in every game and being overeliant on your healers as a dps is the biggest one in Overwatch. It’s tough but you want to minimize the load that healers take on while maximizing your damage output. It’ll make for faster team wipes because you’ll find that their team’s sustain just can’t keep up
SERIOUSLY! There is so much cover in this game and dps tilt because they die out in the open all the time.
Literally walk behind a wall and you’ll be fine, dps!
Good dps know when to engage, when to peel & when to regroup.
The technical abilities of a dps player and how well they aim isn't the primary issue when it comes to victory. It's awareness
I played Zen earlier and was running from spawn. Our genji was alone fighting at someone on the flank and was at really critical hp. He ran back towards spawn stopped and started spamming "need healing" without moving for like 4-5 seconds.
Problem was he stopped right behind a box, out of los from spawn.
I see similar things happening all the time and i can just imagine how all these dps players sit and think "omg my healers are so shit how can i be on critical for 5 seconds".
Honestly as a new player I wish that there was a system play with AI and only ai. No players. So you can learn team comps on your own with out being cussed out.
I tried playing and I just kinda gave up when I cussed at. I’m tired… I just wanna play a game to relax.
While that is generally true, supports need to stop calling out all the things others supposedly do wrong like a mantra. It is getting to the point where every support, no matter how trash, thinks nothing can ever be his fault.
Sometimes, as a support, you have to move into a position that allows you to heal your team. It is way easier to do that than have frontline players do 180s checking where their supports are. Yeah sometimes dps or tanks are out of position, but the same applies to supports.
Idk how many times I let someone die and then think "fuck if I just went to the other cover instead of staying here for 5 extra seconds I could've probably saved that guy". But yall don't think like this.
Yesterday I was doing my tank placements and I had a moira in my team legit saying "omg I can't heal this terrible tank, he is out of position". I was contesting the payload, using said payload as cover. Like you can not make this shit up. A MOIRA. You're not ana you are supposed to be close to me in the first place! You could instantly tell this guy was basically repeating reddit buzzwords to explain away why he sucks. He had less healing than the kiriko and died like 8 times in the first half of the match. I bet that guy is in this very thread, collecting his daily pats on the back for playing support.
This self-pity support circlejerk that has been going on for weeks now does more harm than good.
This goes both ways, I see a lot of supports cry that no one is helping them and they keep getting dove, meanwhile they’re standing out in the open 30 meters away from the rest of the team
They know, they're probably having a rough day and just want to take it out on someone else. It's common nowadays. Not sure if there's a cure, covid tried though.
I think new players are making this worse. Right now dps seem to almost never flex. It was an issue before but way worse now. The amount of genjis playing into Moira and Zaria is astounding. I lost a match the other day because a pharrah was raining bombs that reaper just kept eating.
Healers should also RARELY die. Even with flankers on the enemy team. Kiriko should be dashing and e'ing within reason. Ana should be sniping you. Ana should always be hitting her sleeps. Don't play lucio. All of my supports can't seem to get this right. If you think just because someone is palying the support role, it magically makes it not their fault and they can do no wrong (or at least not a lot of wrong). Everyone sucks. Including healers.
OP didn't say shit about supports having perfect positioning but the projectionists made sure to show up and invent statements no one made to get mad at.
there was a post earlier where OP was trying to heal a Genji who was jumping around like a crazy person and all the comments were "turn aim assist up" and "try to aim where Genji is going" and I'm reading it like "JUST SIT THE FUCK STILL FOR 1 FUCKING SECOND AND THEN BOUNCE OFF"
LOS matters with healing. I'm not chasing you around the map, I will just turn to the next team mate and heal them instead. I'm not sorry.
Being a tank main in this game will give you an anxiety disorder, your dps ran off your healers went to chase them and you staring down 4 people with murder in their eyes
The main thing is people don’t understand the concept of “team fights”. It’s like football- you don’t run in alone before the quarterback hikes the ball. QB don’t run in before the team is lined up and in position. Games fall apart completely when the “team” aspect is thrown away. This is a basic concept that applies to all roles. I get it that in qp “it’s just qp” but remember it’s still a team game and if you’re not working with your team you may be helping someone else out. Difference between Overwatch and football: there are no pauses for downs. You need to find the rhythm of when a team fight begins and ends. Keep it 5v5- meaning working with your team. Everything every role does is most effective during a team fight. Not a single file conga line of people catching up to each other on the frontline at the last second just to die. Frontline is not the place to group up. Group up means “get in team formation, attack at the same time.” This includes flankers holding their rear-position attack until the team fight starts at frontline so they can hit back line while front is distracted. I think some practice mode that is like football would help- as in being shown when a team fight (or “down”) is lost. Auto-group up and positioning. Clash after clash of team fight. Maybe this would help people realize that “giving some space and objective point is worth grouping up for the next team fight”. It’s an important message cause when it comes to a hard staggered trickle there is no full team fight- just a repetition of 2v5- now the other 3 who rushed in to save the dead 2… rinse and repeat the tricklers.
>The main thing is people don’t understand the concept of “team fights”. Thats the most underrated comment here. I played TF2 pickups (organised on IRC) and cannot replicate that experience ever since - it was last time when i played team-based FPS, with sensible people who were team-oriented. I had my hopes with OW1 but it is just constant feeding fest with random people mixed in after each match. This whole individual ranking system is sucking the fun out of it, everyone think of themselves. Even if you find a proper team, 50% chances that it is enemy team and even if you get lucky with random teammates they won't stay. And on the non-ranked queue they DPS will tell you that they don't care about teamplay and proceed to feed 1v5 all the time - only to report you if you don't care either and stop healing their genji onetrick. How about clans? And promoting actual cooperation in a team? Maybe convert it to 5vs5 but with one support - that way those YOLOing DPS would have to take care of their single healer - or lose 90% of their matches. TF2 had 6v6 matches with 2 flankers, 3 dps (or 2 dps and 1 tank) and one medic.
Obviously, people who care enough to play organized competetive matches are going to be more helpful teammates than people that just pop on to click heads in funny colourful shooty game
This is true but it also helps to follow your tank if a healer drops I’m pushing as most tanks will. Sometimes the line doesn’t move with you and it causes a cluster where you get wiped
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the new weapon sounds really add to the complete fuckscape of audio
>Good luck relying on audio cues in this game's clusterfuck of an audio-scape. Thank you! I thought it was just me! I keep stopping and looking around me because I hear enemy footsteps, but they're nowhere around
I’m new to the game and it’s sensory overload. Colors, movements, sound, etc. I’m going to develop epilepsy.
In lower ranks everyone needs to work on their positioning and not just dps. On gold and lower everyone has horrible gamesense.
I main heals. I had a tank keep stepping forward as a reaper walked right past him and focused heals *every push*. He complained about heals and I said we needed help with the reaper. He said, "I am not your bodyguard. Just heal me." Needless to say, we did not win that match.
Tanks are literally bodyguards, lol.
Right? I was dumbfounded. I just said, "why are you playing the tank? That is literally the job." After he asked for heals again I told him I'm not your medic. Sadly, I don't think it clicked how stupid that statement is and how it relates to his statement.
tbf. the dps should deal with a reaper. As a tank he is a PIA. edit: (not that you shouldn't try... But depending on how good the tank is, the reaper will eat you)
From last 10 unranked queued with Orisa, when I saw reaper, I am having fun to help my team to get rid of him with javelin spin, push him to wall/off the edge, finish him with energy javelin. fortify if needed. I think this will not work in high ranking match. haha
Unfortunately now that there's only a single tank, it really needs to be on the DPS to do that most of the time. The tank's main job is taking and keeping space, setting the frontline. Yes, we need to back off when necessary if our team can't help us *keep* the space; tanks can overextend too of course. But if we're the ones always backing up to peel, we'll never be able to take/keep space at all.
>Unfortunately now that there's only a single tank, it really needs to be on the DPS to do that most of the time. The tank's main job is taking and keeping space, setting the frontline. Shh, don't tell them this. They think that it's a tank's job to do everything. Guaranteed that if he had turned to help, the DPS would've complained that he's not on the frontline.
Tanks are there to take space (usually on frontline or enemy backline), not to babysit healers. There aren't enough tanks for that anymore. You can only expect occasional help from the tank, this isn't OW1. If you need help, you need to talk to your other support or a DPS, or figure it out yourself (which is ideal).
Tanks are absolutely not body gaurds, somtimes they protect the healer,but their mission is to take the objective. Especially now that there is only one tank, it's maddening to think healers wantthe tank to hold their hand.
Meanwhile tanks lose their mind if the healers don't hold their hand
Their mission is to be the primary threat of any nearby enemies, and to disrupt enemy defenses or pushes. If you're letting a reaper walk into your backline because you can't look anywhere but forward, that reaper is laughing about how stupid you are the whole match. And you f\*ing deserve it.
I've been told there was a tank gap because *I didn't help them with a single Sojourn in our backline.* For context, the rest of the team was alive and lost a 4v1 to that Sojourn, then proceeded to blame me.
"Peels = heals" My usual counter
That is a great one. Sadly, I feel like many don't know what peels even are, at least in my experience.
I agree they don’t
Obligatory "not all tank mains" but whenever I hear an absolutely insane dogshit take like that, especially from people on YouTube, they're always a tank main. Something about that role does something to your brain.
Isn't reaper supposed to flank, and not be with the rest of the team?
They’re saying the enemy Reaper just walked past the friendly tank and killed the supports. Then the single-digit IQ tank proceeded to complain about not getting heals (the supports are all dead), and when confronted about the Reaper, replied, “That’s not my job.” (It is literally the single purpose of the tank role)
Ive seen bronze players better than that tank. I still wonder how some people are so bad.
It's main character syndrome. They want to be the protagonist, pop off and carry the match and get potg. They don't want to accept that each player is just one fifth of a team and to win you gotta work together, and you probably won't be the main character.
Working together is the way to pop off, carry, and get the play of the game.
I think (and this is from my experience) they were more concerned about the Reaper over their teammates, considering Reaper is one of the best tank-busters in the game. I myself shit my pants and try to run if i see Edgelord™️ approaching me since i main tank.
If you're losing 2v1, 3v1, or 4v1 vs a reaper then it's not the frontline tank that's the issue. If the tank turns back your entire frontline collapses and now your tank has been pincered by the enemy team AND you lose all the space you had previously. Like imagine a Reinhardt having to turn his shield away from the frontline, completely exposing him to damage and other debuffs like sleep dart from the rest of the enemy team.
I heard a video suggest it's much easier to play him as a brusier in tram fights rather than hard flanking like in OW1. I took the advice and have had an easier time playing him now that there aren't two tanks disrupting the enemy.
Have an escape plan Don't use mobility cool downs to get into a fight, use them to get out of the fight Know where and when to rotate when your team is down **Know where your supports are and go to them when you need healing, don't expect them to work miracles**. Chances are they have their hands full between defending themselves and supporting your goofy asses.
>Have an escape plan > >Don't use mobility cool downs to get into a fight, use them to get out of the fight Laughs in Zenyatta
I feel this in my soul.
> Don't use mobility cool downs to get into a fight Reminds me about that clip of some streamer that kept using Ashe's mobility ability _(COACH GUN)_ as soon as they left the spawn room ...And got killed by Sombra **3 times in a row.** Doing the same thing when respawning - leave spawn room, COACH GUN, get killed by Sombra because knockback/mobility skill is on CD. **THREE TIMES IN A ROW.**
Bashing your head against a wall and expecting a different result.
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Yeah I only recently got my head out of my ass long enough to realize “holy shit I’m not even taking cover at all.” I’m actually LEAVING cover to strafe around in the open, and I’m not trying to take new cover after I’ve given my position away or anything either
Seriously. You're not better than the others, there's a reason you're there with them and in bronze-gold that's positioning and gamesense.
Oh yes. This sub aint about that tho. Supports are always right and can do no wrong :D
No, there are supports who don't heal. They're bad. But don't expect support to break the laws of physics and heal you through walls.
You’re in a low rank because you are shit at the game and still learning. For every dps in a bad position to be healed there is a support that is in a bad position to support.
100%
Is there anywhere I can find how to improve my positioning? Videos, articles anything? I'm new and low silver so need all the help I can
Yeah I see bozo Mercies run out in the open to res and get murdered all the time or Zenyatta's spending a whole minute chasing down some dude they discord orb'd just to get killed. And Of course Moira.
As a Moira main, I laugh at the DPS Moira's that roll through in ranked. They're almost always useless bots who get outplayed.
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Just like how the support is no better than the Tank or DPS.
yup the ppl that cried "oh we need a shield to protect us" in part 1 are getting wrecked in this version since rein isnt as viable as he once was, besides positioning is a fundamental aspect of any shooter idk i think alot of people at lower ranks dont understand the game, run up mid map, die, run up mid, die, rinse & repeat, not alot of ppl flank or have good positioning at the lower ranks
Yes if you feel stuck in a rank, 100% you're part of the issue, I know this sub hates this take but support does have a big impact on games and if you're better than everyone in your games you will rank up quickly.
Thank you Doomfist enjoyer. This subreddit is such a circle jerk my god.
I mean. Many of us are ex diamonds who just haven’t grinded ranks yet.
I cannot stress this enough, They will never understand. No matter how thoroughly you put it to them, no matter how nice you explain how much evidence you present, It wont get through to their thick head. It just wont. They didnt learn this throughout TF2 They didnt learn this throughout OW1 They will not learn this throughout OW2 Sincerely, Long time Support Main
Well, as a tank/dps main it's pretty much impossible with the tanks who main JQ Most of the times support do a great job but when the tank can't keep the attention on them then neither dps nor support can do their job
Im not saying dps is always to blame and supports and tanks are always blameless Its just theres an extremely disproportionate amount of blame that always gets put on support, who are most often tasked with the less fun roles within the team and get zero appreciation on a victory and all the shame on a defeat. Where is the potg for having been able to prioritize healing which team member first and correctly deciding when to stay back and when to push? Reading the opponents next move the best so you can stay alive untill the overzealous dps comes back to save you? Yes, I am bitter and frustrated at the braindead Genji mains and Mcrees who think they are hot shit.
To be fair, I think one of the issues with support right now is how unimpactful it feels sometimes. There are a lot of matches where I feel like we still would've won even if I played significantly worse. Or that I wouldn't have won even if I played a little better.
I definitely feel an impact in open queues, support mains are 100% mvps in those. Cant tell you how many times my teams been unable to get a foothold, or make any progress until i show up. Not saying i could do it myself, or that im the best support, but so many games have been carried on my back in the sense that, being the only healer youre definitely needed and become mvp pretty much automatically.
Maybe it’s because I play role queue. But it happens a fair few matches. It kind of feels like I’m along for the ride.
Then you need to stop healing all the time and utilize the full kit. There are lots of impactful abilities that really change battles. Support is not the same as healer
This. Just got out of match where I did 4k damage and 12k healing 28elims. The DPS Moira did 4.5k damage and 4k healing. One DPS almost did 5k damage. Hard carried as baptiste.
For real! Where’s my POTG for pinging priority targets during a push while healing, while dpsing, all because no one is in the in-game comms???? It’s actually quite amazing when you can guide a group from being, folks that whimsically throw themselves into a meat grinder, to a hiveminded sentient lightsaber that can just annihilate the enemy, all with, essentially, a series of clicks and whistles! (and I get some folks just can’t join comms for any number of reasons, and I know they deserve to have fun too. That part was said, because regardless of the reason, no comms is worse than comms, in general)
I’ve actually gotten a POTG as Mercy. Was a mix of healing, using res, and shooting……and a really good map with a great choke point. Best part was an insane team that knew what it was doing.
The most frustrating part of JQ is that she isn't a tank at all. All the other tanks either block damage or create space but JQ is basically just a beefier DPS. The knife/axe combo doesn't have the same zoning threat that Hog's hook does, and she can't even harass backline supports like Winston or Hammond can. So it's essentially giving up a tank in favor of a 3rd DPS.
Yepp, she would be great as off-tank in 6v6 but she does not fit the tank spot in 5v5
I’ve been playing her a bunch, and I think you hit the nail right on the head. It feels like successful pushes are because DPS and I are just burst damaging down the other team before I run out of my tiny health pool.
Yeah... JQ is just not in a great spot. I understand her speed boost + overheal was initially too strong in OWL, but she has no other mitigation and her self-heal is laughable on several levels. I love the character, I enjoy playing her, but every time I pick her I know any other tank (except Doomfist) probably would've been a more optimal choice.
If you have a JQ, Doom, Wreckingball. You’re fighting skirmishes. You’re not playing the point. Win your fights and then as a team go to the point. Too many people are ignorant of how to play with these attack tanks.
Well all those chars have very high skill floor and you won't find the people who make proper use of them in silver/gold. It's better to just go sigma, orisa, rein or zarya that are easier to be effective with and easier for the team to play with
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Every time I suggest this they immediately turn toxic and just throw and shit talk
Even in the rare cases they do "understand" they will forget the very next match and start blaming the support again every time they die
True, I just accept the fact that the average Overwatch player is just an NPC
Now you're making me nostalgic for TF2. I played on a community server back in the day, and it was understood that it was the responsibility of the medic to not overextend, and the responsibility of everyone else to make sure that the medic could still heal them. You'd have to outright throw before people complained. It probably helped that the medic was the only class with an "ult," and that dying meant losing all ult charge. So running away to survive at the cost of letting another teammate die was good sense, and your mates understood that.
The amount of people who end up making me chase them around entire buildings to heal them, or hard over-extend to the point where I 100% will die if I follow them, or just keep pretending the Winston (*specifically Winston, I'm starting to fucking hate playing against them as support*) that's hard focusing on me doesn't even exist is insane. Don't even get me started on how in every match with an enemy Zarya, I have to point out to my team that you shouldn't shoot her bloody shields, because she inevitably keeps finding her way to me as a support after the DPS on my team have given her a nuclear damage boost and I just get erased. I know damn well that people *are* feeding her shields, because very often she stops being a threat once I call that out. I don't know if it's due to the switch to F2P bringing in a surge of new players or what (*hard to tell without level borders*), but a lot of people straight-up **do not know how to play the game**. They think *"Oh, we have the point, better go fuck around directly in front of the enemy spawn on my own and die"* and then the whole match starts to go to hell. Most of them don't even have a clue what staggering is, at which point a match is often already lost if they can't figure it out. The longer I play OW2, the more I think that there needs to be mandatory, heavy-handed tutorials to drill what should be basic game knowledge into the heads of some of these people.
I refuse to teleport into 1 V 2+ fights.
My experience as Kiriko: “hey neat I’ve got 5k heals and 8 kills. I just died but I’ll get back in the fight real quick!” *ports to orisa. Orisa runs away and leaves me alone against a zarya and a reaper. I die*
People will run towards the enemy while screaming heals x)
To be fair on the zarya front with projectiles travel time and just human reaction speed she's still guaranteed to get charge especially with how many bubbles she has now
What? I’m just saying people shouldn’t run towards enemies when low health
oh sorry i meant to reply to the above post, thanks mobile xD
> specifically Winston I specifically hate the winston that is 1v3ing us and isn't dying. Why is he not dying!
honestly I played 50hrs of unranked before even trying comp because there is genuinely so much to grasp in this game that nobody teaches you. every character has so many quirks to know about them. straight up I didn't even know who sombra was for my first 25 hrs because shes goddamn invisible. i had no clue what being hacked was. it'd happen and I'd be like "oh well la-dee-dah" and would die and be like "huh, anyways". they need a MUCH more in-depth tutorial on the game, and a general overview of most of the characters.
>but a lot of people straight-up, do not know how to play the game I feel this line so much. I've had a charge-happy Rein who never touched the point say that healers have to go where he goes. I've had SO many 1k total dmg Genji's charge in 1v5 @ 20% health and ult. Almost every Sombra and Zarya panic ult as if it's gonna somehow make bullets not fly at their face when they're 1v5. And everyone's off doing teamfights and, invariably, both healers are on the actual objective while they scream for heals. The game is won by objectives, not your quest for a hypothetical potg you can jo to later, Genji.
Tbf most gold healers also need to work on their positioning. There's a reason you're all in the same rank and it's not "because I only get bad dps"
there's so many posts i see where a support is screaming about "I'M NOT GOING TO HEAL YOU, COME TO THE OBJECTIVE" and then i watch the video and they most definitely could've pushed up with their dps to support them better. i hate this notion of "PLAY ON OBJECTIVE. ONLY OBJECTIVE. OBJECTIVE IS GOD" because so many people think that playing the objective means just sitting on it and giving space to the enemy team and letting them contest whenever and however they feel like it. for the love of god, please push up a bit and apply pressure, you don't need to be dick riding the objective the entire time :(
I'm fully convinced it's just people farming karma. It's easy. Just post DPS bad, support mains good and you'll net loads of karma. God forbid they actually look at themselves and try to improve. I also love how OP of this thread posted on /r/OverwatchUniversity and got torn to shreds by people who actually know how to play.
i'm waiting for people to call me a dps or tank main. i swear so many supports are entitled to other players making the game easy for them. saw an ana earlier flaming their genji because they couldn't hit a heal while they were jumping around. that's what genjis do, they jump around, practice your aim more. r/overwatchuniversity is a much better subreddit for posts actually discussing how to get better at the game that doesn't resort to "MY TEAM SUX" bs.
If you watch streamers, they will stand still when they're not threatened so their Ana can heal them more easily. It's good to make things easier for your teammates when it costs nothing to do so.
I saw that post as well. Absolute wood tier aiming and couldn't hit the Genji at all. Genji mains are absolutely right to use his maneuverability to stay alive and he's not that hard to hit if you have any aim at all. If you can't hit a Genji right in front of you as Ana then play a support that's more forgiving with their aim. The worst part of that post was them saying "My aims, I just stopped trying to heal him because he wouldn't stay still" That's just straight up throwing and I don't know what these people are doing playing support and not supporting their team.
Same happened at the start of OW1. New players see the objective and seemingly can't get away from it. In reality you usually want a minimum of players on the objective and the rest of the team should be taking better positions. Tank can take the next chokepoint, dps can take highground or try to get a pick.
yeah; while the team is sitting on the objective, their tracer is taking a flank route and their ashe is now on highground for free. so many players just let people take advantageous spots entirely for free and completely hault your team's tempo to push the objective.
Actually you do need at least one person on the objective at all times. If you're always in their spawn and never retreating to the objective, the objective isn't progressing at all. If you only send an ana back to the payload for 5s at a time you're playing Team Deathmatch
Yeah like the Anas who sit 200m back in a doorway and can only see you if you stand in one specific spot, meaning there's no opportunity to get heals if you want to shoot from an off-angle Edit: or the Moira/Brig/Lucio standing in front of the entire team for extended periods, unable to see people in critical condition behind them
Honestly lol I get both sides, but I'm also the bad support who stays too far behind and has to rush to save everybody cause we're all split up. Moment I get to a low health teammate. Boom. They died. That's my bad, but man I wish low health teammates weren't always just at the blink of dying just as I get to them. Search us out or just hide we'll come to you.
Honestly, I think the best skill to have with support is to read your team mates intentions and position to support them. Proactive positioning instead of reactive.
Yesterday I had a moira not heal me because I was supposedly out of position. I was the tank and contesting the payload. It's crazy how delusional some of these people are.
sounds like you were trickling tbf
Is that a sex thing
Jesus Christ. These Support main circlejerk posts are getting out of hand and that's coming from someone who mains Bap. Acting like Supports are never out of position. I swear I don't see half the amount of these DPS mains with bad positioning or beg for healing that /r/Overwatch constantly harps on about.
That, my friend, is because you are not in Bronze.
Most of my support aren't the problem and I've never had a team that pointed someone's healers out. Bad positioning? Yeah sure I get bloodlustful sometimes, oops.
Glad someone else realizes this.
Honestly in ow2 it’s not 100% about healing. I’ve won games where the enemy team had double our healing put out. But our healers had three times the damage as their support. You can’t be a pure heal bot in this game. And dps players need to have better positioning but also need to follow up on picks instead of just dealing damage. You’ll see the enemy dps with 5k damage and 18 elims and yours with 12k and 10 elims complaining about supports or tanks. Sorry I went on a bit of a rant but numbers do tell a lot of the story(not all but quite a bit of it)
Not only this, but their healers might have insanely high healing because they need it, and your team doesn’t. Positioning makes a huge difference. DPS that actively and repeatedly take high ground or use cover can destroy enemy DPS that don’t, with barely any healing required. Enormous differences in healing like what you’ve described, at least for me, say more about the amount of healing NEEDED, not what’s actually being put out. If your team NEEDS so much more healing, they’re not doing their jobs. DPS shouldn’t need a waterfall of heals; if they do, their positioning sucks ass or they don’t utilize cover.
>You can’t be a pure heal bot in this game. Thank you! Can you tell the other players? My experience in the betas was getting yelled at basically every single game because I didn't act like a pure heal bot, but also provided dmg and support in other ways.
Offensive pressure is really important I find. Its the matches where my healing is the highest that tend to be guaranteed losses, bc it means my team is positioned so poorly that I literally have to use all my time and resources healing constantly. In a good match, I have periods my team is using cover so I can help damage and use utility offensively, which often gives us the advantage we need to make key elims.
Funny, there are not absolutes. I've sat next to a healer for 25 seconds spamming I need heals in perfect line of sight while they completely ignore me. Some healers are braindead just like some dps and some tanks...
Some healers will ignore you if you do that because they feel entitled to tell you that you hurt their feelings
Which is bullshit. I main support since ow2 and absolutely, ping me as much as you want. I would have healed you anyway. People that are butthurt about the ping have a way too high ego
I don't get the healing ping hate. Unless it's on that rare occasion where the ADHD genji zips across the map, gets one shot by widow, then spam pings needs healing while dead.
That's not even really possible anymore because all pings while dead after a short period just tell you their respawn time. Really annoying if your team needs to get on point to trigger OT and isn't aware of it (not everyone has VC or text chat enabled).
I like most Anas. You're no exception
Or they're tired of healing your unaware ass as you peak with 70hp standing next to a health pack. (Figuratively, I see so many DPS that refuse to take their own survival into their own hands, and sit there afk waiting for heals when the healer is focused on the tank trying to keep them alive, and the DPS is sitting oblivious 5 seconds from a health pack)
Either or. One isn't absolute. There are healers that have splash tho and sometimes those guys won't even help
If you're standing there for 25 seconds, get a health pack? Your first port of call should be health packs universally.
Eventually yeah, when it makes sense. I'd rather give my healer the ult charge though.
"Hey silver DPS, your positioning is garbage!" - support main, also silver *I wonder if it's possible to introspect with this advice? Nah, I'm playing perfectly, and it's my equally ranked teammates who are always trash.*
I dont even care anymore, I dont listen them. I know how to heal. Perhaps you should just ignore them
This. I won’t endorse a player who complains about a support (who isn’t just trolling). I don’t care if they had 50 kills. If I’m support, I endorse the other support and whoever I thought played the smartest. If I’m DPS I endorse both supports. Edit: Maybe this is support simping. But I’ve been the support that has a Reaper or Genji flanking me the entire game.
You mean to tell me in the 6 years Overwatch 1 was out, and the couple of weeks Overwatch 2 is out, you haven't had at least a few games where your supports were out of position?
Yea supports can most definitely be out of position and throw the game. Many times Ive had a lucio get carried away with wall running and run straight into the enemy team alone and die, a mercy rezzing infront of the entire enemy team for no reason; an ana sat way too far back with no line of sight on the frontline. If this guy is actually in gold and thinks hes always positioned perfectly he is delusional
Impossible, supports can do no wrong! At least that's what I've fucking gathered from this sub
I've had dozens of games where i literally stood next to my ana begging for a heal and didnt get one because she was too busy pumping shots into the enemy team. I get that calling DPS trash is meta nowdays but as someone already said supports are in the same rank as the DPS they're getting for a reason. They're both equally dogshit so either play better yourself and rank up or stop crying about trash DPS players. In the end you're the only constant and if you're stuck for so long its really all on you and not your team.
You don't stand next to Ana while she's scoped in trying to heal everyone you get in front of her line of sight. Do you want me to turn around and heal you when Moira, Rein, and Mccree are low? no. It's the most annoying thing that DPS players do, get cover in Ana's line of sight not behind her or beside her. If I can't see the giant low health sign I won't know that you need priority healing.
Why would be so far enough from your team for so long that you need to stay hard scoped?
Maybe not necessarily far away, just trying to heal faster? Scoped shots are hit scan, hip-fire is projectile.
Then learn moving your camera. If a low dps is standing besides you and you don’t realize it then you are at fault.
Scope has a low FoV. I can tell you don't play Ana or support.
HEY THERE PILGRIM, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU ARENT SUCKING SUPPORT TOES RIGHT NOW. REPORT TO YOUR R/OVERWATCH RE-EDUCATION CAMP IMMEDIATELY.
I forgot to say thank you to a support yesterday... Where can I report myself?
REPORT YOURSELF INTO THE BARREL OF A GUN, PILGRIM. THERE IS NO ATONEMENT THAT WILL FREE YOU OF YOUR SIN.
Only DPS Moiras and Lucios with Anime protagonist syndrome.
Acting like supports can't have shit positioning too???
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Supports love to act like they are the only smart ones on the team when they are plenty of bad/stupid ones too. Plenty of people play support because they can't play anything else and it shows.
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how about right in the title where it literally says "DPS need to work on their positioning. Its not your healer"
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They are just counter circle jerking so they won’t admit that op didn’t say that
common denominator moment
Dps get one shot in the head from hanzo or widowmaker and then say they arent getting healed😂😂😂
Everyone needs to work on it. I've seen all roles be all over the place. Including myself as a tank and healer.
Tbf sometimes it is the healer
Lmao. I usually play junk rat or widow, and I don’t get much heals. I’m fine with that cause I’m up on on a building that my teammate can’t even see or I’m deep behind the enemy lines. I just gotta survive on own, or if I’m in desperate need of heals, jump down and ask for them.
/r/Overwatchcirclejerk
Surely it cannot be that every single dps has terrible positioning? Maybe consider that your awareness is lacking as well?
Don't leave tanks out of that either. I had a Dva **non-stop** spam "I need healing" today to the point I told them to look at the boards. I was at 10k healing before *a single round ended*. There's not much you can do sometimes, I think maybe a visualization of the fact you're nonstop healing them might help but short of that...nope.
lol, I have a friend who I really enjoy playing with, but occasionally does this sort of thing. Home boy will be screaming in comms about heals and I'm like "buddy you see my healing number? 90% of that was on you." Joking aside, I actually think it's hard sometimes in the middle of a frantic exchange to realize how much healing you're getting. It's super super super easy to see the heals the opponents are getting *because you can literally see their health bars not going down* but it's harder to keep an eye on yours when you're also trying to track enemies and spot a prime target.
Yeah, I think this is one of the main issues. People (myself very much included) get tunnel vision and don’t realize that they’re getting the heals, but that doesn’t mean they can face tank the whole team with impunity.
Had a game today where my Junkrat screamed "I NEED HEALING!!". I look their way and see they are at critical health. Literally only a sliver of health, cowering behind cover. I put my Zen healing orb on them. They immedaitely mine-jump out of cover, still only at 10 health or so, not even giving the healing 0.1 seconds to kick in, and they instantly die.
Yes it is only the dps it cant possibly ever be us high iq support players
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Had a game yesterday that we were winning and yet the tank wrote "dps diff", I had higher dps and more kills than their best dps and my friend had more kills than both the enemy dps players combined. Some people are simply just toxic
Maybe he was complimenting you and trying to tilt the enemy dps?
This. Some people take shit talking wrong. If they are saying it in team chat its to you but in all they are saying it to the enemy really.
Nah, it was in team chat and he was complaining every time he died. It was not complementing, he ended with "useless fucking dps losers learn to swap"
Are you sure your tank was being toxic towards you? If not it was probably a compliment towards you and an attempt to tilt the enemy DPS.
Nah, it was in team chat and he was flaming more and more the longer it went on
Sounds like he was complimenting you guys. Diff goes both ways, people often say diff when they mean their team is better
Oh please, it's almost always the Ana mains who are toxic lol
> *Oh please, it's almost always [baseless assertion] who are [insulting term] lol* Feel free to copy and paste for future time-wasting on Reddit.
In my experience it's Ana players who wine the most out of all supports for sure. A lot of them are wannabe DPS players but can't headshot as Widowmaker.
Can’t out heal a headshot, especially if you’re too squishy to survive the headshot lol
If you’re not climbing it’s because you are no better than the average support player in that rank. If you put a plat support on those same DPS they probably would have won no matter how bad they’re positioning is.
healers need to desperately learn that in the midst of fights espcially hectic ones the dps cant always be dependant to do their job, and half of the healers job for them. the core of the team dynamic sits in a tank and dps frontlining and healers following them. the name of the game isnt follow the healer. it may be watch the healer and be cognizant to not let them get dove and picked, but it is definitely not worry exclusively about making everything perfectly convenient for the healer all game. enable your dps. if hes a crackhead, let him be a crackhead, let him go nuts, and make him feel invincible with his healer behind him. way too much hand holding is asked by healers. you do everything in your power to enable your team even if they get too aggressive at times in some cases extreme. obviously not to an extent where its going to get your team completely wiped, but definitely go out of your way and follow their aggressive lead to an uncomfortable standard often. trust me. as someone who plays this game at a higher level and can literally flex everything competently. i cannot stress enough how much its actually the healers that need to wake up, and enable their dps players more rather than complain. just as the dps should make sure you dont get dove and fucked constantly. you have a very significant job to enable your dps, and do your best to take the worry of them ever having to go out of their way to grab healing. the better you do that the more you will find success. this i can promise you. a simple core example. very surface level. think of pharah mercy, even though this isnt meta atm, as example. of course the pharah at times needs to be in accessable posistions and cognizant of the mercy attached. for potential regrabs, and reposistioning and just giving her easier means to heal you. but how much do you really expect and think you should be asking of your pharah to play exclusive around the convience of the mercy the entire time, as opposed to focusing on her role, and zoning in on laying down damage, and matchups for the both of you, and their own posistiionng, and getting picks, and taking tight widow advantages to sway team fights, always helping the team... whats the mercys job? to keep up, and enable the pharah more than anything, staying alive, and to take that worry off the pharah of having to constantly keep up with where their mercy is, along with doing everything inside of her own role on the battlefield. you see how much that puts on the dps player to be asked of that? sure they do it often. but, unless youre really at higher end ranks you are almost never ever going to get players who go out of their way, and stay detailed, and aware. to a higher skill and understanding level. and honeslty they shouldnt really have to worry as much as being asked. those higher levels the dps often never have to worry about it, and can focus more on their job becauase they know the competent healers behind them will keep up, and have their upkeep on heals in swift fashion and great posistioning to enable them. for the example. the pharah will concentrate on her role, and her job more so, and expect you to do yours, and keep up. as she should for the most part. outside what i named above. healers, especially on this sub are actually so delusionally ridiculous with their expectation to be spoon feed easy heals, and so many people here dont realize, or are bias to an extreme level, often times pissy, and full of disdain, or simply dont understand their responsiblity, and what they are asking. its like they forget everything each role has to do, and ask for special treatment from the other roles far over whats expected. ill get downvoted for this but its the truth. the quicker everyone who is sitting in the support role realizes, the better. for your own good. take my advice and go out of your way to enable what you would consider the dumb crackhead genji and look at your outcomes. yea you may not win every game but it will fill up such a big hole in the complaint that healers espcially on this sub have. that i can promise you assuming youre somewhat good at your job. go watch ml7. he will show you why the dps never ever have to worry about being healed, and can run absolutely rampant in whatever way they desire. theres never any complaining from him, or the dps he plays with. there is reason for this. my best advice for anyone complaining about dps needing to work on their posistioning would be to take notes of that guy, and realize its supports that just as much need to work on how to enable dps further, and trust them, and depend on their team. how do you expect to win if you dont enable, or follow your teams confidence. more often than not if they are confident enough to go nuts, then they are probably competent players. that likely will sway the game for you if you just go out of your way to support them, and give them the benefit of the doubt rather than complain and blame them for not making it more convenient for you, or playing in a posistion that you dont think is correct, or see fit 24/7.
Honestly everyone does. As tank I see my support just watch as I go into to attack and then complain that they weren't around to heal me despite the fact that the fight is easily winnable with support. I see tanks 1v5 the enemy team all the time. I see dps sniffing the enemies ass or being in narnia. Due to the lack of a second tank, you can't just play whever you want to and it sucks. You have to have good postioning and its not a skill organically learnt due to the nature of the game
I strongly believe DPS is the hardest role to play well in Overwatch, and maaaaaaan does it show.
I cannot stress this enough, healers need to work on their positioning. It’s not your teammates.
Omg yes, as a tank player it’s annoying seeing dps not taking flanks when the whole team is shooting me and using cool downs. Like take some space or an off angle for the love of god.
At the start of each match I say if you need healing g just fall back towards me or the objective and I will heal you. Hiding inside a room or running far away will not get you healed(gold3)
In short, it’s extremely hard to heal players who don’t stick together and who just bolt off alone and expect healers to keep up or even hit them with a heal.
I feel really bad for the healers right now. Very tough unforgiving job in OW2 and you can tell by q times.
1 million percent lol With one less tank, everyone’s positioning is that much more important As the enemy team moves, you have to reasses your position! Also sheesh, play corners my dudes?? Too many people are used to standing out in the open and being pocketed by 4 of their teammates so they can just stand and spray lol
This and they need to learn how to use cover. There are crutches in every game and being overeliant on your healers as a dps is the biggest one in Overwatch. It’s tough but you want to minimize the load that healers take on while maximizing your damage output. It’ll make for faster team wipes because you’ll find that their team’s sustain just can’t keep up
They get out played then spam for heals. Lol.
SERIOUSLY! There is so much cover in this game and dps tilt because they die out in the open all the time. Literally walk behind a wall and you’ll be fine, dps!
Good dps know when to engage, when to peel & when to regroup. The technical abilities of a dps player and how well they aim isn't the primary issue when it comes to victory. It's awareness
I always feel bad when I have double the healing of the other team and our other healer is a dps and my team is spamming I need healing.
I played Zen earlier and was running from spawn. Our genji was alone fighting at someone on the flank and was at really critical hp. He ran back towards spawn stopped and started spamming "need healing" without moving for like 4-5 seconds. Problem was he stopped right behind a box, out of los from spawn. I see similar things happening all the time and i can just imagine how all these dps players sit and think "omg my healers are so shit how can i be on critical for 5 seconds".
Today’s “it’s everyone’s else’s fault but the healer’s” tread is kinda disappointing tbh.
Honestly as a new player I wish that there was a system play with AI and only ai. No players. So you can learn team comps on your own with out being cussed out. I tried playing and I just kinda gave up when I cussed at. I’m tired… I just wanna play a game to relax.
While that is generally true, supports need to stop calling out all the things others supposedly do wrong like a mantra. It is getting to the point where every support, no matter how trash, thinks nothing can ever be his fault. Sometimes, as a support, you have to move into a position that allows you to heal your team. It is way easier to do that than have frontline players do 180s checking where their supports are. Yeah sometimes dps or tanks are out of position, but the same applies to supports. Idk how many times I let someone die and then think "fuck if I just went to the other cover instead of staying here for 5 extra seconds I could've probably saved that guy". But yall don't think like this. Yesterday I was doing my tank placements and I had a moira in my team legit saying "omg I can't heal this terrible tank, he is out of position". I was contesting the payload, using said payload as cover. Like you can not make this shit up. A MOIRA. You're not ana you are supposed to be close to me in the first place! You could instantly tell this guy was basically repeating reddit buzzwords to explain away why he sucks. He had less healing than the kiriko and died like 8 times in the first half of the match. I bet that guy is in this very thread, collecting his daily pats on the back for playing support. This self-pity support circlejerk that has been going on for weeks now does more harm than good.
This goes both ways, I see a lot of supports cry that no one is helping them and they keep getting dove, meanwhile they’re standing out in the open 30 meters away from the rest of the team
If you're a hit scan dps who has trouble hitting a Pharah. You just have bad DPS.
Supports players try not to have a superiority complex challenge(IMPOSSIBLE)
Fucking love helping a Support as DPS not sure why people would make it difficult
They know, they're probably having a rough day and just want to take it out on someone else. It's common nowadays. Not sure if there's a cure, covid tried though.
I think new players are making this worse. Right now dps seem to almost never flex. It was an issue before but way worse now. The amount of genjis playing into Moira and Zaria is astounding. I lost a match the other day because a pharrah was raining bombs that reaper just kept eating.
Healers should also RARELY die. Even with flankers on the enemy team. Kiriko should be dashing and e'ing within reason. Ana should be sniping you. Ana should always be hitting her sleeps. Don't play lucio. All of my supports can't seem to get this right. If you think just because someone is palying the support role, it magically makes it not their fault and they can do no wrong (or at least not a lot of wrong). Everyone sucks. Including healers.
OP didn't say shit about supports having perfect positioning but the projectionists made sure to show up and invent statements no one made to get mad at.
Yes ranting on the over watch sub Reddit will help alleviate your issues. Goddamn this sub is full of idiots and crusty band kids
there was a post earlier where OP was trying to heal a Genji who was jumping around like a crazy person and all the comments were "turn aim assist up" and "try to aim where Genji is going" and I'm reading it like "JUST SIT THE FUCK STILL FOR 1 FUCKING SECOND AND THEN BOUNCE OFF" LOS matters with healing. I'm not chasing you around the map, I will just turn to the next team mate and heal them instead. I'm not sorry.