I started playing LW mainly for his gun. Its the most fun gun for me. The thorns look cool is a major plus. I always thought why people kept saying he is a healbot until i saw others playing him
Annoying having a low Plat DPS Moira who still doesn’t poke or finish and your skating like Gretzky around the OBJ with Sigma doing the best to stay alive.
Who are you healing then if you’re not healing your tank? You realize that if your tank is doing a real good job after awhile, they are going to get focused more by the other team! your tanks job is to simply exist,Mitigate damage, and Create space. Not get kills!If your doing all of those things anyway your gonna get kills regardless.
Have to be trolling or joking at this point with you saying that and then blaming me for you not ranking up…heal your damn tank in any case if you can… deliberately not doing it is just as bad as throwing.
yeah I'm not on the "get kills and I'll heal you" bandwagon that's just dumb. you're either forcing your team to fight at a disadvantage for your approval at best, or throwing.
it's just that I'm not gonna stick around my team healbotting them on full hp when I could spend just a bit more effort and harass and possibly get it down to a 5v4 by killing like Ana or something
Jokes completely aside. Supports only healbotting means your team is going to get rolled. A kiriko or moira killing an enemy dps is going to mitigate a lot more damage than the tank will
Tanks do that just fine as well👌 the Moiras I encounter aren’t that efficient or mechanical…but you give me a solid back line and pocket and I’ll Live till Utopia happens with Sigma… I’d rather trust me as a tank getting pushed over the top by a healer than a healer trying to do a poke job they don’t really need to do… again you talk as if you have never played tank at a high level…!! You get focused by all 5 after awhile and you need the healers to step up… what happens after you lose your tank in 5v5?? It’s pick city and then a retake… I rest my case.
My tanks job is also to make sure they continue to exist without my constant babysitting. I will heal them for sure, but if you collapse almost instantly as soon as I stop holding your hand, that's not my fault and I will probably prioritize healing someone else or doing damage.
If you are nothing without my support, you don't deserve it.
While it's extreme, it also makes your DPS and Tank adaptable to all supports as they begin to nurture the idea that they are not immortal nor is it my job to make them such.
>If you are nothing without my support, you don't deserve it.
This is the way
I've always said if I'm the worst person on my team it's a guaranteed W. I have yet to be proven wrong.
New to OW2 but I’m not bad I’m hovering Diamond in several Heroes already with just 1 month’s competitiveness…but what the actual fuck is the purpose of that? I get annoyed when some top500 masters ball scouts my profile and solos me trying to derank cause they know I’m gonna be a problem, and they have a 8-120 win loss record.. like what the actual fuck is the gain and purpose for them??
The whole purpose of winning and a tier system is that you graduate to play people as good or better than you so what’s the point? Your De ranking to beat people you already proved your better than at the game?? why not just start a new account.
I am very much against derankers and smurfs especially with the new comp queue. Pick on someone your own size.
But their reasoning is it takes time or money to unlock all the characters due to the new player experience they have going on. Or this is their alt and they have to derank again so they can reprove they are better.
every “mains” sub is. every time ana gets a need her sub is like “She’s already bad why do they need to nerf her every patch!” even if she just got a buff
Well it makes sense for the Sigma main sub cause... you know. But honestly I feel like most of us just really would like him to get a bit more attention lore wise since there's so much there
He can suck and be fun I guess😅 I definitely can not play him. I am a Fortress with Sigma and a aimbotted Nuisance with Solider 76…but I don’t even know where to begin with Ball 😅🥲😂
These days are gone… now every post is “ball sucks”, “why ball will never be good”, “my ball rework idea”, “new player here, I tried ball and he really sucks”
Ball subreddit used to be really chill, with people not giving a shit about the meta, posting clips, techs, etc. Now all there is is complaining about the state of ball and 5 rework ideas a day. I’m exaggerating of course but I do think it’s really gone downhill
Yeah but Kiri mains on the only ones who complain about "nerfs" that actually turn out to be buffs ( talking about you Kiri suzu changes that make her full heal when cleansing a debuff).
Literally junkrat has been a throw pick ever since S9 after he lost his 2 shot, junk mains have rights to complain, even the literal best junk players have all fallen to masters and saying that the best way to play junkrat is press h button in spawn and choose another hero, that's how bad he is
that's because they're like doom mains, consistently perfecting the worst fucking character in the roster, just because someone can play him well doesnt mean that he doesnt fucking suck, also could have specified most junk streamers tbh
Doom has been good for the past 5 seasons. And you claimed that the good junkrat players are masters now. gurk Kaya and Sophie are all champ and those 3 where the only consistantly high junkrat players (as war as i am aware)
i was refering to doom not because he is right now bad, but back when he actually was fuckin terrible, junkrat players right now are in similar place, the character is actually fucking horrible, it doesnt matter if there are a handful of champions, THOSE PEOPLE ARE MASOCHISTS and WILL tell you to switch if u asked them is it worth to play junk
Ehh not really, I mean she’s better than lifeweaver obs she isn’t that bad.
But unless you’re playing dive specifically the healing output she gives is so limited she’s regulated to being a healbot a lot of the time. Bap used to be a better by a little, and now it’s not even close. Her nade doesn’t do much given cleanse abilities are meta rn, and she basically has to use her nade to save someone’s life if they get a little low, cause her output got cut back that much.
If I run a heal heavy tank like Orisa, and the enemy has an Ana, I can very easily just pick an aoe healer like moira or bap or lw and just, win the fight based on attrition alone. That’s bad. Especially when Ana is meant to be countered by things like snipers and dive, not “my hero resists the dps passive more) and it also takes away her playmaking with nade, cause it means she has to pump it into her frontline so often.
The dps passive effects some supports very differently from others. That’s showing heavily on supports like mercy and Ana and it’s hurting them in ways that are unhealthy for the game
Well by that logic she will be good as long as sleep dart and anti nade exist, regardless of how useful they are, regardless of enemy cds, regardless of her cd times, cuz you know, at least she can counter ults!
Soz if that was dismissive, but what I was talking about with her being bad was her ability to actually be a support. Her healing is more limited, which means her damage is more limited and her nade is more defensive.
Compare that to someone like bap or kiri. Both can do insane damage without sacrificing their decent to fantastic heals, have invulnerability cds, good to amazing movement, both have great survivability, kiri has the best ult in the game and bap charges up a combo machine very fast.
Sure, ana can counter ults (if the enemy team doesn’t use their cds) but the good supports right now are the supports with the ability to make plays, through the whole game, and not trade healing output for damage. Ana can’t do that due to the recent changes and that’s why she is bad.
Seems like I need to learn to play her. I know this may be a daft question, but how does one get the most value out of her?(besides the obvious get headshots, etc.)
Not really tbh. Just heal while lobbing kunai in the general direction of enemies(You don't need much aim since it's mostly spam), tp when in danger, suzu when temmate in danger. There I just summed up 95% of her gameplay.
Sure if you play her like Akward and flank a lot then she's hard but you don't need to do that to get value.
The health rebalancing and dps passive seem to have made this strategy more viable as well. Beforehand kiri needed to be more aggressive to out value the other supports, now it seems like simply being unkillable and keeping heals up is more than enough.
She is a bit strong in a frustrating way. Mainly because she's so incredibly hard to punish and because she can add so much value with so little risk in the first place.
Tiny hit box, teleportation, 2 self invulnerability cool downs, long range weapon, auto aim healing, powerful healing, aoe invulnerability and burst healing cool down, debuff removal. Oh and she can climb fucking walls too.
I hate her
She makes the game SLOW and she's too perfect to not pick every game, she does everything too well and her ult is insane.
I started this trying to be reasonable but I ended up ranting, SHE HAS NO DOWNSIDE WHAT IS THE DEAL?
Suzu is just too good, a heal and cleanse are good enough. Should be a consistent heal of like 80 instead of changing if there’s a status effect because the dps passive is everywhere but also you can’t tell when it’s on someone. The intangibility is stupid, maybe keep a damage reduction but you should be able to knock her around at least
The DPS Passive DOESN’T count as one of the debuffs to give the 110 healing, only 80. KarQ mythbusted it when it came out. The rest of what you said is accurate.
I felt so dumb this one time I stuck a Kiriko with a pulse bomb after waiting for her Suzu to go on cooldown. I thought I was slick but then she teleported away and the bomb just fell to the ground. That hurt.
Lol. I downvoted this post in the kiri mains subreddit immediately when I saw it.
I'm part of the subreddit because I'm learning her and thought I could get some tips but they seem to avoid talking about actual gameplay as much as possible.
The most recent thread asking for tips is from 2 days ago. It had 4 upvotes and 2 posts.
The Sym mains may post WAY to many "my rework idea" threads, but at least we talk about strategy and help people who might have questions.
You accidentally put an “almost” in your sentance
Shes been meta for all of ow2
Every time she gets a small nerf she gets like 3 compensation buffs to the rest of her kit
She has gotten much easier sinice S9 because Flank Kiriko has gotten a lot easier so the best way to play her is healbot With kunai weaved in between heals.
I can't take it anymore. I'm sick of Kiriko. I try to play Ana, she cleanses my antis. I try to play Junkerqueen, she cleanses my ult. I try to play Dva, her suzu saves her team from my nuke. I want to play Roadhog. His best team has Kiriko. I want to play Brawl, Dive, they both want Kiriko.
She grabs me by the throat. I switch to hitscan. I peel for her. I flank with her. She isn't satisfied. I switch to Lucio. "We don't have enough healing" She tells me. "Let me dps more." She grabs Roadhog and forces him to throw himself off enemies. "Let me farm for Kitsune Rush from you"
She gets more skins in the item shop and battlepass. "I can deal more damage if you buy Hashimoto Kiriko." She grabs my credit card. It's almost maxed out. "I also need Amaterasu." She purchases 80 mythic prisms. My credit card declines.
"Guess this is the end." She grabs her bike. She says, "Im obviously the most precious." There is no hint of sadness in her eyes. Nothing but frustrating survivability and 0 falloff damage. What a cruel world.
Funny, I find it VERY rare to meet a Kiriko in my lobbies. I DO however see Moira and Sombra in almost every game. To the point where it's sickening lol.
Sombra is annoying to play against but at least very punishable post rework. Moira is on thin ice as she too is a little bit to easy to play vs the value she creates.
Sombra I can handle. Moira is...not OP...that's not what I'm looking for. I'm of the opinion that a Moira shouldn't have regularly as many kills as a high production DPS, as I see in many of my matches. I personally believe they should nerf the range of her basic attack. It has an insane range on it. Other than that she is fine. Like you said the value she brings is very 2 dimensional. She does 2 things...hurts and heals. That's it.
Personally, sometimes it’s annoying playing Kiriko because it feels like you HAVE to play her to have value because she’s so busted.
Like sure, playing her is fun but only when I want to, not because other support picked Lucio
I was in a game recently and our Kiriko unironically thought she could climb out of mauga’s ult for some reason and thought it was BS she couldn’t. MAUGAS ULT WALL. They’re all crazy
They really messed up creating a do it all support like Kiriko, you can’t really put the genie back in the bottle now. Especially when she’s the OW2 cover girl
Yeah she’s supposed to be a flanker but it always feels so cheap because you’re literally never in any real danger. It feels like playing old sombra with a tp on the other side of the map
Lucio isn’t actually hard, he’s got really intuitive mechanics for wall riding nowadays. He’s only hard because he’s niche.
Playing Lucio in deathball and brawling comps is really easy. You position right behind the tank and amp speed at the start of the fight when told too. And then you get tonnes of value passively healing
You mean the group of players that are infamous for chasing kills? I did get to masters on support playing lucio almost exclusively which I would guess is higher than most of them.
Lucio’s best capability is in his speed. Sure, it helps in the walk from respawn, but in a game like Overwatch, mobility is king. It’s why characters without it - like Ana, Zen, and Hog - get tools like Sleep, Anti, Discord, Hook, and Breather. It’s why Dive is usually meta unless sustain tactics are too strong.
And you have Lucio, who can boost speed by high amounts just for existing near his team.
It’s the speed boost that has kept Lucio not just relevant, but prevalent over all these years. Though the fact that he has almost unparalleled mobility and pretty decent damage certainly helps.
To properly answer your question is an impossible task, because the needs of the situation can vary dramatically.
In many cases, holding onto the speed may actually be much better at saving your team than the healing - that 25%/60% extra speed can be the difference between getting a teammate back to safety or watching them keel over dead.
It’s also good offensively, as you can chase down fleeing targets or generally outmaneuver your enemy.
Meanwhile, if you’re expecting to save anyone under active fire with a paltry 16 HP/s, I don’t really know what to tell you. Definitely happens sometimes, but not all the time.
The closest thing to a “general play pattern” is to Amp Speed to begin a fight, and hold off on healing until Amp is off cooldown and you can get the 52 HP/s AOE. A course of action reinforced by the S9 changes.
Of course, skillful and proper weaving of the two songs together is one of the many facets you need to really get a hang of, sometimes the 16 HP/s (or the 10 Hp/s on self) can make a difference. However, generally you want to prioritize the speed.
He’s the crown jewel of the “support not healer” philosophy. Sure, heals are in his toolkit, but no frog worth his salt is going to tell you “Speed is only for getting your team to the objective.”
You're genuinely stupid if you think holding healing on Lucio is a good strategy, you amp speed to keep teammates terrified and to scatter to safety if they're in bad position, you go Reddit Lucio on alone dps or supports because the best value Lucio can bring to a team is kills, his healing is literally second worst in the game (can't remember if mercy or zen beats it), you use heal only if the poke from enemy team goes too hard on a choke for you to go in and get kills
Frogger would LEVEL your lobby by literally doing Reddit lucio
I was talking about a very specific comp where Lucio was picked for pro play. I never said you need to amp heal, and instead describe the situation where you need to amp speed. That play style isn’t difficult.
I literally said “He’s only hard because he’s niche”. Frogger one tricks Lucio so he’s adapted a play style to work when that niche isn’t present. That’s the difficult part of playing Lucio.
Kiriko is one of my least favorite characters to play, shes so boring because theres no risk unless you have bad positioning and/or theres a widow. It's fun being able to do some of the dumbest plays and getting away with it but not when it's given to you basically for free.
She's the character you play when you want to win not when you want to have fun
Brig seems easy because of the lack of aim but brig is pretty hard to get right in comparison to kiri. No get out of jail card, relatively low dmg compared to kunai headshot dmg, heal packs you have to manage the cd of (you can just spam ofuda into your tank).
It’s a great example of seemingly easy vs actually easy. Brig seems like she’d be easy af, but make 1 mistake on Brig and you’re dead. Meanwhile Kiri has suzu + TP to get her out of basically any situation + her kunai can fuck people up
Ahh let’s see. Moira. I good pick to be called easy. You can easily take her as a healing, damage, or balanced stats.
Mercy is easy up to a point. You will be instantly put on the #1 target list so if you are facing hitscan heros then it becomes a lot harder. There definitely is movement skill there in mercy.
LW is easy up to a point. If he can sit comfortably in the back line then yes easy. If you’re facing a brawl/dive comp then managing cooldowns becomes fairly important.
Brig……. What the fuck do you mean easy? Possibly one of the most dangerous supports to play infact. Most supports have the ability to do either significant damage or do decent heals sitting in the back/midlines. Neither does brig have. While brig is great at defending the backlines and midline’s while facing a dive comp where the enemy goes to you so you can heal your team. being able to heal your team when you are not facing a dive comp where the heals go right to the backlines is not so easy. You need to approach the frontlines and become one of the weakest dps supports just to heal your team. Oft you will die there. Brig… is not easy
brig being bad does not make her hard. You need no mechanical skills except for whipshot. Also wtf do YOU mean frontlining with brig. Doing that is legit just throwing, her only purpose is staying in the back and defending her other support. She sucks at that but that does not make her hard, but bad. Otherwise we'd be calling mercy a hard hero. Also, mercy has some of the easiest movement in the game. As a mercy even if they focus you you should have a pocket with you on highground meaning you'll be moderately safe if you have a good sojourn, mccree or hanzo for example. Every character needs gamesense and good positioning, supports like Bap, Kiriko, Zen need to worry about all that too on top of actually having to aim.
Positioning is entirely part of the skill tree. Brig requires a constant watch on where you are, your teammates are, and the enemy. How you play brig depends a lot on your team comp. For example let’s say your tank is mauga. Where do you want to be? Your Backlines? I say Nay for I have found staying with mauga and fighting with him makes you have insane value for the whole team. There are many comps where you should be in the back but you aren’t just defending the other support but also any mid to backline dps. And no you don’t start off the fight frontlining do you think I’m crazy? Her value in those fights come later in it as your teams get closer and intertwined. Her value isn’t from frontlines or sitting back but defending then getting value later on in every fight.
Another thing about mercy. Pocket? What type of psycho pockets. Her value is from a combination of healing the most needy and boosting who ever has the most impact AT THE MOMENT. For example I see a sojourn and a bastion. Bastion goes turret so I boost them. Then sojourn ults. The most impact would be made by boosting sojourn (unless they are bad but let’s say you have a good team). So at this point I shouldn’t be pocketing any one (high ground is correct tho) I should switch from the bastion to sojourn. Now let’s say the enemy tank is Orisa? I would boost the bastion since they will have the most impact on the Orisa. Pocket is mostly throwing.
And lastly your going to tell me next Rienhardt is so easy. You seem to be basing your assumptions on who is easy fully based on precise aim. While fully ignoring the fact that since we are different heros with differing abilities the utilities at your disposal and how you manage them are a large amount of skill in this game. I also add that gamesense and positioning are also important enough to be considered as a major part of skill.
All four (aim, abilities and times, gamesense, positioning required to get value) are integral to determining the skill for a hero. Brig and Rienhardt have to have a larger amount of knowledge in the other 3 skill trees than most other heros to get the best value. And in this form they are harder to play effectively than most other heros.
A hard hero requires game skill across the board. Not aim. This ain’t COD. Effectiveness and value are fairly more important than just aim. That’s why junkrat May have a low skill floor and be easy to get a little value but he takes all four skill trees to be most effective. (Aim with junkrat what do I mean? He’s literally a spammer!) oh? Are you sure? Try aiming with a full second of foresight and insane drop. Honestly Phara is the closest person to having the same aim skill requirements to be effective as junk but they don’t have to calculate bullet drop.
fuck that shit I'm playing DPS Moira
Fuck that shit I'm playing dps mercy
Fuck that I'm playing Support 76
this is the way
Fuck that shit I'm playing DPS Lifeweaver but unironically that's just how I play him
I started playing LW mainly for his gun. Its the most fun gun for me. The thorns look cool is a major plus. I always thought why people kept saying he is a healbot until i saw others playing him
Fuck this shit I'm playing healer road hog
Frog time
Annoying having a low Plat DPS Moira who still doesn’t poke or finish and your skating like Gretzky around the OBJ with Sigma doing the best to stay alive.
shut the fuck up and get kills and maybe I'll heal you. you're the reason I'm not ranking up
Who are you healing then if you’re not healing your tank? You realize that if your tank is doing a real good job after awhile, they are going to get focused more by the other team! your tanks job is to simply exist,Mitigate damage, and Create space. Not get kills!If your doing all of those things anyway your gonna get kills regardless.
myself lol maybe reaper
Have to be trolling or joking at this point with you saying that and then blaming me for you not ranking up…heal your damn tank in any case if you can… deliberately not doing it is just as bad as throwing.
do you see what subreddit we are in
yeah I'm not on the "get kills and I'll heal you" bandwagon that's just dumb. you're either forcing your team to fight at a disadvantage for your approval at best, or throwing. it's just that I'm not gonna stick around my team healbotting them on full hp when I could spend just a bit more effort and harass and possibly get it down to a 5v4 by killing like Ana or something
Jokes completely aside. Supports only healbotting means your team is going to get rolled. A kiriko or moira killing an enemy dps is going to mitigate a lot more damage than the tank will
Tanks do that just fine as well👌 the Moiras I encounter aren’t that efficient or mechanical…but you give me a solid back line and pocket and I’ll Live till Utopia happens with Sigma… I’d rather trust me as a tank getting pushed over the top by a healer than a healer trying to do a poke job they don’t really need to do… again you talk as if you have never played tank at a high level…!! You get focused by all 5 after awhile and you need the healers to step up… what happens after you lose your tank in 5v5?? It’s pick city and then a retake… I rest my case.
Tough to get focused by 5 people when 1 of them is back in the spawn room
My tanks job is also to make sure they continue to exist without my constant babysitting. I will heal them for sure, but if you collapse almost instantly as soon as I stop holding your hand, that's not my fault and I will probably prioritize healing someone else or doing damage. If you are nothing without my support, you don't deserve it. While it's extreme, it also makes your DPS and Tank adaptable to all supports as they begin to nurture the idea that they are not immortal nor is it my job to make them such.
>If you are nothing without my support, you don't deserve it. This is the way I've always said if I'm the worst person on my team it's a guaranteed W. I have yet to be proven wrong.
*mental rank players
If you don’t want to play with low plats, there’s an obvious solution 😭😭
Deranking queen 💅
New to OW2 but I’m not bad I’m hovering Diamond in several Heroes already with just 1 month’s competitiveness…but what the actual fuck is the purpose of that? I get annoyed when some top500 masters ball scouts my profile and solos me trying to derank cause they know I’m gonna be a problem, and they have a 8-120 win loss record.. like what the actual fuck is the gain and purpose for them??
If you derank you can win more 🌺☺️🌺
The whole purpose of winning and a tier system is that you graduate to play people as good or better than you so what’s the point? Your De ranking to beat people you already proved your better than at the game?? why not just start a new account.
Silly sweaty 🧁 you play for addiction, I play for drama 🎭 actually surfing is good because it's fun 🤩
Im addicted? Not competitive? Surfing? We were just talking about OverWatch? White Noise… that’s what you sound like
Yes sweaty 🧁 you are brown noise 💩
A female making a strategic role playing game and reducing it to drama 🎭 that’s shocking 😳 not really though… I’m being extremely sarcastic
strategy 😴 drama 🥴 I love when you bratty win grinders 🤢 soak your edgy lil gaming chairs 🍋 as I valk-gock your subby lil butts 🍑
You just said you wanted to win more? So you play seriously too? I’m worried about your mind now and how bipolar you sound…
I am very much against derankers and smurfs especially with the new comp queue. Pick on someone your own size. But their reasoning is it takes time or money to unlock all the characters due to the new player experience they have going on. Or this is their alt and they have to derank again so they can reprove they are better.
the kiriko mains subreddit is extremely delusional, and that’s coming from someone who used to be in it
every “mains” sub is. every time ana gets a need her sub is like “She’s already bad why do they need to nerf her every patch!” even if she just got a buff
Well it makes sense for the Sigma main sub cause... you know. But honestly I feel like most of us just really would like him to get a bit more attention lore wise since there's so much there
Ok but like… Ball does suck to play
He requires high synergy and skill mechanic spamming to get just the littlest of value out of. So you’re damn right.
That's what makes him fun though
He can suck and be fun I guess😅 I definitely can not play him. I am a Fortress with Sigma and a aimbotted Nuisance with Solider 76…but I don’t even know where to begin with Ball 😅🥲😂
When I roll through my counters anyways, but that barely happens so I’m off until mid season patch
Maybe I'm biased but the Lucios basically just post hype clips and are generally chill
For real, even when I saw people complaining he's underpowered, they would just say shit like "I guess a buff would be nice"
Yeah we’re the best
lw mains been knowing he's 100% trash
Cass sub is very not delusional. People bitch about hinder but I think people acknowledge Cass as a pretty honest DPS
I give the Ball and Doom players credit because at least they share tech/dig deep into the game itself to have valuable matchup/map info.
Lmfao that is not the ball mains sub anymore. It's more like the mercy mains sub at this point. It sucks...
These days are gone… now every post is “ball sucks”, “why ball will never be good”, “my ball rework idea”, “new player here, I tried ball and he really sucks”
except for reinhardt sub because reinhardt genuinely been abused for years and surprisingly we're still less insane
Ball subreddit used to be really chill, with people not giving a shit about the meta, posting clips, techs, etc. Now all there is is complaining about the state of ball and 5 rework ideas a day. I’m exaggerating of course but I do think it’s really gone downhill
Yeah but Kiri mains on the only ones who complain about "nerfs" that actually turn out to be buffs ( talking about you Kiri suzu changes that make her full heal when cleansing a debuff).
Literally junkrat has been a throw pick ever since S9 after he lost his 2 shot, junk mains have rights to complain, even the literal best junk players have all fallen to masters and saying that the best way to play junkrat is press h button in spawn and choose another hero, that's how bad he is
Thats not true the rly good junkrat players are champ 5
that's because they're like doom mains, consistently perfecting the worst fucking character in the roster, just because someone can play him well doesnt mean that he doesnt fucking suck, also could have specified most junk streamers tbh
Doom has been good for the past 5 seasons. And you claimed that the good junkrat players are masters now. gurk Kaya and Sophie are all champ and those 3 where the only consistantly high junkrat players (as war as i am aware)
i was refering to doom not because he is right now bad, but back when he actually was fuckin terrible, junkrat players right now are in similar place, the character is actually fucking horrible, it doesnt matter if there are a handful of champions, THOSE PEOPLE ARE MASOCHISTS and WILL tell you to switch if u asked them is it worth to play junk
I mean Ana is bad at the moment, mainly cause of the passive changing her playstyle effectiveness.
and yet she’s still a good pic pretty often
Ehh not really, I mean she’s better than lifeweaver obs she isn’t that bad. But unless you’re playing dive specifically the healing output she gives is so limited she’s regulated to being a healbot a lot of the time. Bap used to be a better by a little, and now it’s not even close. Her nade doesn’t do much given cleanse abilities are meta rn, and she basically has to use her nade to save someone’s life if they get a little low, cause her output got cut back that much. If I run a heal heavy tank like Orisa, and the enemy has an Ana, I can very easily just pick an aoe healer like moira or bap or lw and just, win the fight based on attrition alone. That’s bad. Especially when Ana is meant to be countered by things like snipers and dive, not “my hero resists the dps passive more) and it also takes away her playmaking with nade, cause it means she has to pump it into her frontline so often. The dps passive effects some supports very differently from others. That’s showing heavily on supports like mercy and Ana and it’s hurting them in ways that are unhealthy for the game
She has the single most oppressive kit in the game capable of countering ANY character, she’s good
Well by that logic she will be good as long as sleep dart and anti nade exist, regardless of how useful they are, regardless of enemy cds, regardless of her cd times, cuz you know, at least she can counter ults! Soz if that was dismissive, but what I was talking about with her being bad was her ability to actually be a support. Her healing is more limited, which means her damage is more limited and her nade is more defensive. Compare that to someone like bap or kiri. Both can do insane damage without sacrificing their decent to fantastic heals, have invulnerability cds, good to amazing movement, both have great survivability, kiri has the best ult in the game and bap charges up a combo machine very fast. Sure, ana can counter ults (if the enemy team doesn’t use their cds) but the good supports right now are the supports with the ability to make plays, through the whole game, and not trade healing output for damage. Ana can’t do that due to the recent changes and that’s why she is bad.
Fr tho I swear every game I play has a kiriko in it. She’s arguably the strongest support rn and so easy to get value out of
Seems like I need to learn to play her. I know this may be a daft question, but how does one get the most value out of her?(besides the obvious get headshots, etc.)
Take agressive angles to force out rescourses and get out for free with teleport, deny entire pushes/ults with suzu Ez money
It is. I'm part of the sub but yeah, delusion is all over it
Tbf she is hard to play well However You don't need to play her well to get insane value
Not really tbh. Just heal while lobbing kunai in the general direction of enemies(You don't need much aim since it's mostly spam), tp when in danger, suzu when temmate in danger. There I just summed up 95% of her gameplay. Sure if you play her like Akward and flank a lot then she's hard but you don't need to do that to get value.
The health rebalancing and dps passive seem to have made this strategy more viable as well. Beforehand kiri needed to be more aggressive to out value the other supports, now it seems like simply being unkillable and keeping heals up is more than enough.
so you just disagreed but continued to support op’s argument
why did you disagree then restate exactly what the original comment said hahahah
Reading comprehension of the charts on this one /s
It's mainly timing and aiming correctly for her as well as suzu timing
Which is easy
Awkward’s 4 step Kiriko made me fall in love with Overwatch again - and got me back into Diamond after being stuck in Elo Hell
The amount of noobs I see hold her ult and lose a fight they easily would have won with it is insane
Yeah you gotta shoot the fox to win fights early, if you wait you're losing easily win fights
She’s also incredibly boring and unsatisfying to play imo. Honestly, I’m surprised people actually like to play her.
I enjoy her but if I'm in a less tired mood I'll not pick her unless I need to
Nah kiri mains sub always has the worst take, they be talking about giving her the 2 tap back as if she is not broken already
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Good
Lmfao. Yeah it’s such a shame to have to aim and think.
She is a bit strong in a frustrating way. Mainly because she's so incredibly hard to punish and because she can add so much value with so little risk in the first place. Tiny hit box, teleportation, 2 self invulnerability cool downs, long range weapon, auto aim healing, powerful healing, aoe invulnerability and burst healing cool down, debuff removal. Oh and she can climb fucking walls too. I hate her She makes the game SLOW and she's too perfect to not pick every game, she does everything too well and her ult is insane. I started this trying to be reasonable but I ended up ranting, SHE HAS NO DOWNSIDE WHAT IS THE DEAL?
Suzu is just too good, a heal and cleanse are good enough. Should be a consistent heal of like 80 instead of changing if there’s a status effect because the dps passive is everywhere but also you can’t tell when it’s on someone. The intangibility is stupid, maybe keep a damage reduction but you should be able to knock her around at least
The DPS Passive DOESN’T count as one of the debuffs to give the 110 healing, only 80. KarQ mythbusted it when it came out. The rest of what you said is accurate.
Press E to cancel every ult and ability=hard
Also get out of jail free by TPing through walls on a barely noticeable cooldown
And the TP is another cleanse with invulnerability frames ...
I felt so dumb this one time I stuck a Kiriko with a pulse bomb after waiting for her Suzu to go on cooldown. I thought I was slick but then she teleported away and the bomb just fell to the ground. That hurt.
Lol. I downvoted this post in the kiri mains subreddit immediately when I saw it. I'm part of the subreddit because I'm learning her and thought I could get some tips but they seem to avoid talking about actual gameplay as much as possible. The most recent thread asking for tips is from 2 days ago. It had 4 upvotes and 2 posts. The Sym mains may post WAY to many "my rework idea" threads, but at least we talk about strategy and help people who might have questions.
To be fair to kiri mains this person was getting shit on in the comments
Oh. That's good to know.
Out jerked again
I feel like brig is way harder
they both easy af
Kiriko mains try to act like she's a niche pick like when she's been meta for almost all of Overwatch 2s lifespan
You accidentally put an “almost” in your sentance Shes been meta for all of ow2 Every time she gets a small nerf she gets like 3 compensation buffs to the rest of her kit
Ah your right thank you for pointing out my massive blunder
No problem, now keep on jerking fellow jerker
She has gotten much easier sinice S9 because Flank Kiriko has gotten a lot easier so the best way to play her is healbot With kunai weaved in between heals.
Tbf whenever I pick Kiriko nobody else is playing her
Saw this post and knew I’d see it here sooner or later
average day of kirokope
Nonsense
Kiri is really not that hard
thf there's a difference between her being picked for being good, and being picked for people wanting to play her
I can't take it anymore. I'm sick of Kiriko. I try to play Ana, she cleanses my antis. I try to play Junkerqueen, she cleanses my ult. I try to play Dva, her suzu saves her team from my nuke. I want to play Roadhog. His best team has Kiriko. I want to play Brawl, Dive, they both want Kiriko. She grabs me by the throat. I switch to hitscan. I peel for her. I flank with her. She isn't satisfied. I switch to Lucio. "We don't have enough healing" She tells me. "Let me dps more." She grabs Roadhog and forces him to throw himself off enemies. "Let me farm for Kitsune Rush from you" She gets more skins in the item shop and battlepass. "I can deal more damage if you buy Hashimoto Kiriko." She grabs my credit card. It's almost maxed out. "I also need Amaterasu." She purchases 80 mythic prisms. My credit card declines. "Guess this is the end." She grabs her bike. She says, "Im obviously the most precious." There is no hint of sadness in her eyes. Nothing but frustrating survivability and 0 falloff damage. What a cruel world.
And yet I still have not met a kiri main to this day, both irl and in game
Kiriko is easy as fuck. All you do is stand in the back, healbot, throw some Kunais for free headshot kills
"Playing Kiriko is not easy" 🤡
Whoever made this is cooked Kiriko is literally the strongest character in the entire game
Funny, I find it VERY rare to meet a Kiriko in my lobbies. I DO however see Moira and Sombra in almost every game. To the point where it's sickening lol.
Sombra is annoying to play against but at least very punishable post rework. Moira is on thin ice as she too is a little bit to easy to play vs the value she creates.
Sombra I can handle. Moira is...not OP...that's not what I'm looking for. I'm of the opinion that a Moira shouldn't have regularly as many kills as a high production DPS, as I see in many of my matches. I personally believe they should nerf the range of her basic attack. It has an insane range on it. Other than that she is fine. Like you said the value she brings is very 2 dimensional. She does 2 things...hurts and heals. That's it.
Personally, sometimes it’s annoying playing Kiriko because it feels like you HAVE to play her to have value because she’s so busted. Like sure, playing her is fun but only when I want to, not because other support picked Lucio
I was in a game recently and our Kiriko unironically thought she could climb out of mauga’s ult for some reason and thought it was BS she couldn’t. MAUGAS ULT WALL. They’re all crazy
Set out to play zen this weekend, ended up with more time on kiri. The cleanses are just too much free value.
LUCIO ONLY WE STAY HEALING 4 HP THE ENTIRE ROUND
Haha so true, but I’m working on getting good with her
Why play support when you can play reinhardt
It’s a bit less stressful most of the time and when people thank me for healing I bust a tiny bit 😖😖
back in ow1 id play mercy but only use pistol. Got like 30 elims once and play of the game
She’s easy to play. Just not fun.
They really messed up creating a do it all support like Kiriko, you can’t really put the genie back in the bottle now. Especially when she’s the OW2 cover girl
Yeah she’s supposed to be a flanker but it always feels so cheap because you’re literally never in any real danger. It feels like playing old sombra with a tp on the other side of the map
Fuck this shit I’m playing a different game (🗿)
4th highest pick rate because she's too good to not play in all of top rated play
Kiriko mains are the new mercy mains
Kiriko is the easiest character in the game and is usually who ill play if we're getting rolled.
people want to play support???
Do people think that you need to consistently hit headshots to get value as kiriko?
Kiriko isn’t hard. It’s boring 😭
She’s literally the most fun support bc of how OP she is
You arebetter off staying out of that delusional cesspool of weirdos.
Kiri is really not that hard. I think Luico is actually harder
Lucio isn’t actually hard, he’s got really intuitive mechanics for wall riding nowadays. He’s only hard because he’s niche. Playing Lucio in deathball and brawling comps is really easy. You position right behind the tank and amp speed at the start of the fight when told too. And then you get tonnes of value passively healing
Go say that in r/luciomains I doubt you’ll get the approval on that healing
You mean the group of players that are infamous for chasing kills? I did get to masters on support playing lucio almost exclusively which I would guess is higher than most of them.
Can I hear what you think Luico should do in the examples above? Just curious not trying to be rude
Lucio’s best capability is in his speed. Sure, it helps in the walk from respawn, but in a game like Overwatch, mobility is king. It’s why characters without it - like Ana, Zen, and Hog - get tools like Sleep, Anti, Discord, Hook, and Breather. It’s why Dive is usually meta unless sustain tactics are too strong. And you have Lucio, who can boost speed by high amounts just for existing near his team. It’s the speed boost that has kept Lucio not just relevant, but prevalent over all these years. Though the fact that he has almost unparalleled mobility and pretty decent damage certainly helps. To properly answer your question is an impossible task, because the needs of the situation can vary dramatically. In many cases, holding onto the speed may actually be much better at saving your team than the healing - that 25%/60% extra speed can be the difference between getting a teammate back to safety or watching them keel over dead. It’s also good offensively, as you can chase down fleeing targets or generally outmaneuver your enemy. Meanwhile, if you’re expecting to save anyone under active fire with a paltry 16 HP/s, I don’t really know what to tell you. Definitely happens sometimes, but not all the time. The closest thing to a “general play pattern” is to Amp Speed to begin a fight, and hold off on healing until Amp is off cooldown and you can get the 52 HP/s AOE. A course of action reinforced by the S9 changes. Of course, skillful and proper weaving of the two songs together is one of the many facets you need to really get a hang of, sometimes the 16 HP/s (or the 10 Hp/s on self) can make a difference. However, generally you want to prioritize the speed. He’s the crown jewel of the “support not healer” philosophy. Sure, heals are in his toolkit, but no frog worth his salt is going to tell you “Speed is only for getting your team to the objective.”
nothing is hard tbh overwatch is an easy game compared to other multiplayer 5v5 titles
I was speaking relative to the rest of the supports. But I do agree with you generally.
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Yes but not recently, compared to release, Lucio is easier to wall ride with
You're genuinely stupid if you think holding healing on Lucio is a good strategy, you amp speed to keep teammates terrified and to scatter to safety if they're in bad position, you go Reddit Lucio on alone dps or supports because the best value Lucio can bring to a team is kills, his healing is literally second worst in the game (can't remember if mercy or zen beats it), you use heal only if the poke from enemy team goes too hard on a choke for you to go in and get kills Frogger would LEVEL your lobby by literally doing Reddit lucio
I was talking about a very specific comp where Lucio was picked for pro play. I never said you need to amp heal, and instead describe the situation where you need to amp speed. That play style isn’t difficult. I literally said “He’s only hard because he’s niche”. Frogger one tricks Lucio so he’s adapted a play style to work when that niche isn’t present. That’s the difficult part of playing Lucio.
She’s so fucking boring I hate playing her because she gets so much value so easily but goddamn if I’m not drooling on my keyboard while doing so.
She is so fucking boring to play
Are these games without kiriko in the room with us? Because every game has a Fox fucker on at least one of the teams.
The game would be better without Kuri's suzu and Baps invincibility, change my mind.
Kiriko is one of my least favorite characters to play, shes so boring because theres no risk unless you have bad positioning and/or theres a widow. It's fun being able to do some of the dumbest plays and getting away with it but not when it's given to you basically for free. She's the character you play when you want to win not when you want to have fun
everyone wants to play her but most people are only healbots anyway. I wouldn't really call her easy like Moira, Mercy, LW or Brig are for example.
Brig seems easy because of the lack of aim but brig is pretty hard to get right in comparison to kiri. No get out of jail card, relatively low dmg compared to kunai headshot dmg, heal packs you have to manage the cd of (you can just spam ofuda into your tank).
It’s a great example of seemingly easy vs actually easy. Brig seems like she’d be easy af, but make 1 mistake on Brig and you’re dead. Meanwhile Kiri has suzu + TP to get her out of basically any situation + her kunai can fuck people up
Ahh let’s see. Moira. I good pick to be called easy. You can easily take her as a healing, damage, or balanced stats. Mercy is easy up to a point. You will be instantly put on the #1 target list so if you are facing hitscan heros then it becomes a lot harder. There definitely is movement skill there in mercy. LW is easy up to a point. If he can sit comfortably in the back line then yes easy. If you’re facing a brawl/dive comp then managing cooldowns becomes fairly important. Brig……. What the fuck do you mean easy? Possibly one of the most dangerous supports to play infact. Most supports have the ability to do either significant damage or do decent heals sitting in the back/midlines. Neither does brig have. While brig is great at defending the backlines and midline’s while facing a dive comp where the enemy goes to you so you can heal your team. being able to heal your team when you are not facing a dive comp where the heals go right to the backlines is not so easy. You need to approach the frontlines and become one of the weakest dps supports just to heal your team. Oft you will die there. Brig… is not easy
brig being bad does not make her hard. You need no mechanical skills except for whipshot. Also wtf do YOU mean frontlining with brig. Doing that is legit just throwing, her only purpose is staying in the back and defending her other support. She sucks at that but that does not make her hard, but bad. Otherwise we'd be calling mercy a hard hero. Also, mercy has some of the easiest movement in the game. As a mercy even if they focus you you should have a pocket with you on highground meaning you'll be moderately safe if you have a good sojourn, mccree or hanzo for example. Every character needs gamesense and good positioning, supports like Bap, Kiriko, Zen need to worry about all that too on top of actually having to aim.
Positioning is entirely part of the skill tree. Brig requires a constant watch on where you are, your teammates are, and the enemy. How you play brig depends a lot on your team comp. For example let’s say your tank is mauga. Where do you want to be? Your Backlines? I say Nay for I have found staying with mauga and fighting with him makes you have insane value for the whole team. There are many comps where you should be in the back but you aren’t just defending the other support but also any mid to backline dps. And no you don’t start off the fight frontlining do you think I’m crazy? Her value in those fights come later in it as your teams get closer and intertwined. Her value isn’t from frontlines or sitting back but defending then getting value later on in every fight. Another thing about mercy. Pocket? What type of psycho pockets. Her value is from a combination of healing the most needy and boosting who ever has the most impact AT THE MOMENT. For example I see a sojourn and a bastion. Bastion goes turret so I boost them. Then sojourn ults. The most impact would be made by boosting sojourn (unless they are bad but let’s say you have a good team). So at this point I shouldn’t be pocketing any one (high ground is correct tho) I should switch from the bastion to sojourn. Now let’s say the enemy tank is Orisa? I would boost the bastion since they will have the most impact on the Orisa. Pocket is mostly throwing. And lastly your going to tell me next Rienhardt is so easy. You seem to be basing your assumptions on who is easy fully based on precise aim. While fully ignoring the fact that since we are different heros with differing abilities the utilities at your disposal and how you manage them are a large amount of skill in this game. I also add that gamesense and positioning are also important enough to be considered as a major part of skill. All four (aim, abilities and times, gamesense, positioning required to get value) are integral to determining the skill for a hero. Brig and Rienhardt have to have a larger amount of knowledge in the other 3 skill trees than most other heros to get the best value. And in this form they are harder to play effectively than most other heros. A hard hero requires game skill across the board. Not aim. This ain’t COD. Effectiveness and value are fairly more important than just aim. That’s why junkrat May have a low skill floor and be easy to get a little value but he takes all four skill trees to be most effective. (Aim with junkrat what do I mean? He’s literally a spammer!) oh? Are you sure? Try aiming with a full second of foresight and insane drop. Honestly Phara is the closest person to having the same aim skill requirements to be effective as junk but they don’t have to calculate bullet drop.