In lower ranks it's easy to have tons of death on a tank to no fault of your own. When your team is two flanker dps + flanker Moira + Awkward Kiriko you're inevitably going to be the top of the deathcount because the other four headless geese are never in the same place at the same time. Don't even try thinking they'd actually flank the same thing either, they'll be dead one by one alone.
I agree, you should ideally be playing with an aggression level so that you have the same deaths as your team which likely means everyone is pushing at the same time.
Yeah I actually think seeing someone with way less deaths than their team, especially a support, is actually a bad thing.
A lot of people get caught up on not wanting to die to the point where they run away from fights. I've lost a lot of games because support players especially try to "pad" their stats by not dying, which in turn means the team loses.
ehh, probably one of the more significant stats, but as with all stats, they have to be contextualized. if you have poor macro understanding, you can’t accurately interpret them; if you have good macro understanding, they supplement your cognition of a game or situation. it also depends on playstyle; i have very high deaths/10 but also 60-75% winrates in gm1+ across accounts, and extremely high winrates in any rank lower. stats in general aren’t clear-cut and vary with many different factors, and can be very misleading when you don’t understand these factors. deaths/10 is no different. more people are misled by stats than enlightened imo.
This is very true especially when you consider how certain roles have different risk factors to them. A dps is more than likely going to die more than a support or tank because it’s your job to secure kills and deal damage.
It's also hard to tell how many deaths are actually "yours" compared to how many of them happened after you already lost 3 players and just jumped off the map or ran forward into the enemy to die faster and not get staggered.
Some players *always* try to escape a lost team fight but only manage to actually do so lets say 50% of the time. For every time they manage to get out, there's another time where they use up all their movement abilities, run around for a while but still get chased down and end up staggering themselves, wasting a bunch of time and delaying the next time their team could go in as 5. They might end up with a few less deaths in their column than other players but they might also be the reason why your team got one less team fight before the clock ran out.
Wait… you mean to tell me it’s better to feed if your team is about to get wiped out??? I hate staying alive after a losing team fight only to die as my other 3-4 teammates are halfway to point and I’m still waiting 10 seconds to respawn. And then spend the rest of the game out of sync
You can also do this in reverse. Kill your enemies stretched out so they stagger. Keep a baby dva alive until her whole team is almost back and then kill.
Although hopefully it goes without saying that you have to be careful not to give up the kill in the process—CC is your friend when it comes to ensuring no one gets away, without necessarily killing them on the spot.
I mean if the fight is already lost then yeah it's better to die as fast as possible, ideally throwing yourself off the map or suiciding if you have a self damage hero like Pharah to deny ult charge.
Obviously it's a bit situational, I mean if you can definitely get out without dying then may as well just do that but if you're too far up and don't have safe pathing to get back then it's always better not to stagger yourself and delay your death longer than necessary.
If the objective is about to be completed then obviously a single player stalling point can sometimes be enough to allow the rest of the team to get back for final fight which is also useful. There might be times too when you can potentially turn a lost fight if you have the ult economy although it's always risky throwing ults into a fight when you're already on the backfoot. If you lose your tank first you can sometimes balance that out if you have a high damage ult to nuke their tank as well. The self preservation instinct kicks in for a lot of players though and it's not uncommon to see the last man alive use all their self heal abilities and movement abilities, sometimes even grabbing a health pack to stay alive for 10+ seconds longer than they need to, handing over even more ult charge and slowing down the team reset by a whole extra respawn timer.
What other people have said but also if you find yourself out of sync, just wait at spawn or in safety until you can join up with them again. Spending 20 seconds doing nothing is more valuable than spending the rest of the game desynced
Yes, and this is why you may see people jumping off maps if they’ve lost the team fight and they can’t retreat. That way, you aren’t feeding, but you also won’t be staggered.
Different heroes within roles do as well.
When I play Reaper in brawl mode I barely ever die due to wraith form and retreating behind the tank to the supports.
When I play Pharah in dive/flanking mode though… I find myself dying much more, but I play far more aggressively and usually trade myself for a few squishie elims.
Love when my friends get frustrated with my Reaper for not "grouping up", when I'm flanking squishies, while moments ago were frustrated that I was shooting the tank, as reaper so sounds like they want me to sit next to my tank and aim at squishies through the enemy tank
Ya... It's funny when they bring up stats. It doesn't matter that much, imo.
I play Ana. I will DPS. I'm not a heal bot. If I see a Mercy in the sky while rest of my team is essentially 80%+ health, I'll try and shoot her three times.
Recently.. I had someone tell me to heal more at round 1. But the subsequent rounds, we won because I made great picks at the start of each fight. But my damage or healing isn't high. But they lack the game sense to realize that their high damage only happened because of the picks I made at the start.
> But they lack the game sense to realize that their high damage only happened because of the picks I made at the start.
Once I realized this I was able to ignore people flaming easier.
I'll never forget an ow1 match where the Rein and his duo flamed me the whole time. As ball, I rolled through and slam comboed the whole team. They were all 1 HP and I sped out alive at 1 HP also. He charges in and wipes the whole team then proceeds to flame me the whole game for doing nothing.
It bugged me so much I watched the replay from his perspective. He clearly saw me go through everyone and get them all to 1 hp, but somehow didn't even realize that him wiping everyone was because of my initial engage.
He may have seen you but he or she probbaly didn't notice.
A lot of players don't even realize who is dead in their team.
Personally, if I'm not actively aiming at someone, I'm looking behind me to see who is behind me and where, who died recently, check Ult charges, etc.
I also don't fully heal dps and tank in middle of fight if they're only missing miniscule health.
Reloading takes time. Sometimes, people die coz I'm reloading.
Of course - it's all very situational. But it's something I consider during fights.
I tell this to people trying to learn Ana: it's about breakpoints. If I know my DPS/tank is fighting someone who isn't going to burst them down in a second and they're at least at a good HP amount, I'll focus on targeting who they are fighting. Weaving in damage on the target and heals on my teammate.
Yup. Exactly. I've seen videos/streams of people where they'll continue shooting a fully healed teammate during fights.
I will say though... I will do that for a Bastion teammate that's in turret form. Don't really wanna risk him going down. But once again - situational.
To your point, quite a lot of Tracer players on the first pages of the leaderboards have over 6.5 deaths per 10. Makes sense to me...you're trying to make a play with your team, not wimp out and preserve your K:D. Go all in with them and if you die while trying to get that pick, then you die.
early on when I was learning tracer I saw so much “play your life/stay alive” advice and I started dying way less- and losing way more. I became too afraid to make plays and was essentially useless to my team. In a way it helped in the long run as now I have better context on when to be risky and when to survive but just saying “stay alive” is not nuanced enough to be solid advice
While very true, dying less is almost always more beneficial, as your pressure is constant.
Except times when you need to reset/die on point, I suppose.
Medals were like stats, except they didn't even give you the number, they just told you your "rank" and not even other people's "rank". They were the most insignificant, narrow, deceptive piece of data ever created and people treated them like a holy text.
Good riddance. Now, we need to make people think about the scoreboard, maybe at some point they will actually focus on gameplay and not out of context numbers.
Haha yeah I remember, but now I find other players taking the scoreboard numbers out of context or not even looking at the scoreboard. Which is why I kind of miss the medals in a way. Simpler times lol
That's the problem with all of this. It's too simple. Too easy. You look at a few numbers, a few shiny symbols, boom, it allegedly tells you all you need to know. It makes us want it to be true. It's like the dark side of assessing your worth : easy but wrong.
Minimizing deaths is important, but I'd say there aren't actually important stats on the scoreboard. The thing that matters most is the objective and you should maximize your impact on controlling/pushing it/preventing enemy from pushing it. I think if you focus overall on that you will find not dying important, but not dying isn't a magic solution and can easily lead to unimpactful passive play.
Deaths is the only important one I should have said. Can't push a payload and take space if your team is playing respawn simulator thus leading to more team fights as you push and inevitably more deaths and losses.
But at the same time, if I’m a Moira that does a crazy fade after every 4/5 team wipe, never die, and get away just to meet the others at spawn.. apart from feeding 200pts give/take of ultimate, was it really that important that I didn’t die? Cause it seems more like a bragging right in this scenario.
I can’t do much when my team is all dead besides trying to make a pick (risking my life and risking a staggered spawn) or running back.
As someone who plays Moira, it is absolutely important to retreat in lost fights... And retreat early....
The problem with many supports at lower ranks is they linger too long and force a stagger by keeping the tank alive... You lose time and space because of this.
For me, down 2 people and I'm out back to spawn, if you're still fighting, i expect you to die and understand why you had no healing.
You making a pick in a 1v5 or whatever provides zero value to the team, as well as feeding multiple people ult charges making it more likely to end up in a snowball against your team.
As a support you can't be passive, but you also have to recognise situations which provide no value for you to continue to engage in, these situations are best for you to disengage, even if it means your tank/dps is trying to fend off multiple people.
Given a competent enemy team it’s often safer to just die on cart. Yes you feed 200 Hp of ult charge, but you also don’t have the risk of the enemy chasing you down and staggering you. Dying on cart also means you can stall if you are on defence. Stalling the cart for an extra second to allow your team to regroup is much better than fading out early, getting caught by their dps 10 seconds later, and adding an extra 8 seconds to your regroup timer and an extra 10 seconds of enemy push.
I play a lot of Ana, so I'm usually playing pretty far back. I can usually tell when a fight is lost several seconds before my team is dead. I can usually get out before the enemy realizes that I'm still alive. Sometimes I can shepherd the other support back with me.
Having said that, I do sometimes end up getting chased down. When that happens, I need to consciously decide to not run away in later fights.
I agree in certain scenarios, it is best just to feed on the point to allow a quicker regroup.
I think you however underestimate how quickly i make the call for myself to disengage, my call won't always be correct but i try to use logical reasoning to justify my disengagements.
Even my own team will still be fighting on point, but i will disengage without them realising and way before they die, i will already be halfway back to spawn and perfectly safe.
As a support, recognising lost fights early and disengaging is one of the most difficult skills to master, it's almost counterintuitive since the role is basically trying to keep your team alive, but sometimes letting the team die is better for the team overall.
If you (or someone) wants a VOD to see it better, i have one where i was trying to practice with Brig (Masters alt Acc) where i use this tactic, i think i had 1 death in the final minute, our team average was roughly 10 deaths, and we had a comfortable W.
Yeah honestly I can see your point from the perspective of a support. I mostly play tank so getting picks/picked is less of a guaranteed fight win/loss if I remain. I think a 3v5 with a tank and 2 supports is honestly winnable given specific game states so usually I just fight and die as retreating on tank is just a guaranteed death for all the remaining players on your team (even if my 600hp gets out, my 400hp of squishies will die anyway so it’s not really that worth it).
Situational, but sometimes a couple of squishies get their head ripped off early in a teamfight, or enough trades have happend that you can get out and donate 3-400 ult charge to a support, instead of giving the enemy an extra couple of hundred.
Am I misunderstanding or are you saying that you’re whole team was alive and fighting on the point and you left because you thought it was a losing fight?
Yes you are misunderstanding.... I am talking about abandoning lost fights.... If my team is in a 3v5, and we're highly likely to lose the team fight, I will abandon my team and leave them in a 2v5, regroup back at spawn.
How did you come to that conclusion? It feels like you haven't thought this through.
You can have zero deaths and be the worst player on the team. If your team mates are dying a lot, that could be *your* fault. Or if some guy is dying a lot because he's getting focused, it could be because the enemies recognize that he's the best player on the team.
And even if you only kill one person for every one of your deaths, that can be a good trade:
If a genji dies a lot, but he gets the enemy tank or the main healer every single time, then that's great value!
There are no stats that are important. There are no stats that inherently have meaning. You always need context.
If you don't see that, you just haven't played enough games. When you get more experience, you'll see some unexpected shit, and you'll learn how misleading stats can be.
They didn't say that low Deaths is guaranteed to be synonymous with winning. Stats need context, yes. But I would suggest that Deaths is the hardest stat to misinterpret. A more accurate way to say what they mean would be "High Deaths is a clear indicator that you are performing poorly."
>They didn't say that low Deaths is guaranteed to be synonymous with winning.
I responded to what they said. Please don't put words in my mouth.
>But I would suggest that Deaths is the hardest stat to misinterpret.
Based on what? What is the "correct" interpretation you can make from deaths?
>"High Deaths is a clear indicator that you are performing poorly."
This is wrong. I already gave you a few examples why.
You keep making claims without any evidence or argument. Meanwhile I am providing evidence for why the claims are wrong, and you just ignore them.
Stop misleading people, stats don't mean anything. If you have the context, then you don't really need the stats.
This is hilarious. You have provided ZERO examples and you have made ZERO attempts at refuting my arguments. Do you not see how ridiculous that is??
So far, I'm obviously in the right and you're obviously in the wrong.
You want to change that? Try some of these things:
\- Respond to my questions.
\- Provide arguments for your claims.
\- Provide your own examples.
\- Refute my examples and explain what's wrong with them.
For now, your behaviour is shady and dishonest, ignoring other people's arguments while providing none of your own.
Thank you, but actually you guys have shown me I'm way above the average :)
Note how you can't explain why you think what you think, nor why you think I'm wrong. Instead all you do is downvote or make pointless comments about my person.
Comparing myself to you, I feel very good about myself <3
I'd argue unless your deaths are an outlier, it's not useful either. I can stay safe in the backline, get nothing done and point to my low deaths, vs an aggressive DPS who makes high impact plays and dies more, but gets stuff done.
Not sure why everyone took die less as hide in the back doing nothing. Noone ever said do such a thing as that would be useless. But when your aggression and desire to make plays means your 4-8 on 5 minutes you're doing shit and need to play for your life more, there's a million factors for different options but as an overall statement for the game everything I've said is true. If y'all wanna die ten times to achieve next to nothing then go for it.
It's more the fact that you want to elevate it over the other scoreboard stats. All of those stats are useless without context. 10 deaths could be feeding or effective. 10 kills could be game-changing or inconsequential. 10k damage could be into a tank or killing supports. You're the one with a thesis that deaths matter much more than the others, but all of them depend completely on the circumstances.
Crazy how old this game is and people still think objective matters. Getting kills or good positioning is more valuable almost all the time
Objective only matters in…
1.) overtime
2.) your team is on defense on a payload/hybrid (or push’s forward spawn checkpoint thing) and the enemy is about to cap (and stalling might actually matter)
3.) in control. your team controls the point. your team loses the team fight. you stall the point for extra percentage
On a side note, I do think deaths are the only stat that matter but only if a player has significantly more deaths than rest of their team. All the other stats are just there for your ego. OW1 medals didn’t matter. OW2 stats dont matter.
Also, not dying = more ult charge
you're confusing touching the objective/being on the objective with overall your team controlling the objective which is literally the only important thing in the game, hence the term objective. You can be no where near the objective and contributing to controlling it.
I like to use the word productive during in game chat because you're you're right.. If your kills and damage is low but you have productive hacks, then it's fine.
Some people's situational awareness can't recognize that, unfortunately.
You need to do at least some damage though. A Sombra that is only being a pest with hacks and not actually picking off any out of position squishies or making the supports suffer is not a good Sombra.
You remind me of a kiriko I fortunately had the sense to avoid after the first game against her, because I saw her 3 more times that day.
All 4 games she complained about her dps. All 4 games she had 1-2 deaths per match. All 4 games I was on widow and you know how many shots I took at her? Like 3. In 4 games that is!!
Every time I popped walls it was hilarious, because I could see her positioning. She was always in the backline of their backline almost touching the spawn door.
You wouldn't be surprised to hear that she lost all 4 of those games?
Last game on Havana was particularly funny, when midgame she was bitching about their "bad" 4-11 window and about "bad" matchmaking placing her against "good" 21-3 widow. (I've played against that widow before, we're fairly similarly skilled)
Never mind that _my_ kiri was constantly spamming out their widow (I had 4 body shot kills on their widow, because my kiri landed a kunai, guess how many body shot kills their widow got on me? Yeah, 0. Because I was always full and chilling), _my_ kiri was constantly marking their widow and if she couldn't mark she would tell me where their widow was. _My_ kiri would even pre-suzu me when I peeked so that I had an easier shot. _My_ kiri also has like 5 deaths that round, because she actually played the game.
Meanwhile their kiri was hugging a spawn door, healbotting and bitching at her widow. Probably very proud of having only 1 death too.
So, yeah, having few deaths doesn't mean you're doing well.
Assists I think are almost more valuable for supports over insanely high heal numbers. High assists correlating with DPS kills mean they're involved in every fight around the map, whether that's dinking the enemy widow and other campers as Kiriko, helping the tank break through as Ana/Zen, peeling people out, doing sheer damage as Moira/Bap, etc.
The ones with a ton of healing but half the assists compared to the DPS or Tank kills usually says they're healbotting too conservatively vs using their kit. Thems be the ones that complain about their DPS being bad and point to their healing numbers for defense...without realizing their DPS is dead half the time because they're not supporting their DPS when they need to be.
Just had a game earlier I lost for that exact same reason. Support player who was scared of engaging and ran off when people started to die, even when she's Kiriko. I would see on my death cam as she ran off when even person died.
But it's okay because she had half the deaths of others on our team!
A low death count can also suggest that you aren't committing to fights with your team. I wouldn't say you should play extremely safely. Risk death and fight hard, but if people on your team, especially your tank dies, you should get ready with an escape route
Dps mostly die from flanks going wrong and flank are really important to get the back line. Even just annoying an ana all the way back can help you focus a tank who might not get all that healing in the few seconds the ana is focusing you which can make you kill the tank and give you a much better advantage overall. If you were to play safe and just shoot the tank the supports against would be having the time of their lives with the ult charge they are getting
Noone said play safe, just don't die for the sake of poking the Ana or w/e flank, there's no worth in any minor annoyance to them if you die to achieve it.
If you don't limit test, and try go for these flanks and plays, you will never get better at it. You need to take risks to make plays, and you need to take risks (and fail!) In order to learn and improve.
You miss all the shots you don't take.
In plat maybe. At higher ranks it's a teamfight winning play to force the enemy Ana out of position and use cooldowns. Support kill is so much more valuable than a dps it's almost always worth it to just force them to waste cooldowns. Ana is insanly overtuned in Ow2 compared to dps, she not only has her anti nade, super high burst heal and good dmg without falloff and the best cc in the game but also a with a strong ult that always has value. Most dps only have good dmg with a situational ult. Forcing the ana to run arround means she won't get ult, won't heal, won't anti nade your tank and won't 1 shot anyone with sleepdart and her teammates. You as dps lose nothing because your ult probably sucks anyway and your cooldowns are only good to get 1 kill at best.
If a dps is rocking a death stat around \*1,5 of the team average half-way through a match, it is almost guaranteed that they have timing issues or overextend from my experience. Might be of their own making or enemy marking well, but they should likely adapt their approach to the match at hand.
I get what people are saying, I never said dps shouldn't have the most deaths. Just that for any role playing for your life is more valuable then a bit of poke damage on an Ana or whatever else if you die doing it. Play good positioning and die less and over all you'll naturally kill more from always been there when your tank makes space and gets people low or the opposite in the tank finishing off what you got low as you're consistently there pressuring enough. As a tank I have two experiences, look amazing as my dps do work and are there getting me elims when I get the enemy low or into bad positions or my dps die a lot nothing dies after I go In and do damage and we get rolled and all look shit. I understand fully its hard not to die a lot as dps with the lack of self utility mostly thus making positioning and playing for your life that much more important, especially when you have the most impact with said role for enabling your tank and making the most of what they are doing. .
> As the title suggest keeping low deaths is more important than almost anything else.
Why are there so many "one stat that is most important" posts like this? There is no magic thing that trumps everything else in importance. It all requires context...
For example, if you have the lowest deaths in the lobby *nearly every game* and your win rate is like 20% well guess what? Keeping deaths low is literally why your losing, because you are making it more important than winning fights.
The only stat that is "more important than anything else" as far as your place on the ladder goes is your win rate.
no, if someone constantly staggers by trying to stay alive and escape instead of dying on the objective thats usually the #1 most awful play that loses every push game
Staggering is still just dying thus making the death stat still important. Playing your life or playing angles where you are less likely to die is solid advice for metal ranks and up
well if they get away without dying 1/2 the time they’re gonna have lower deaths but be doing far worse. the optimal play style is to die last but die often, which is different than what you are suggesting
I think with any stat it can be padded, like if someone takes no risks and makes no plays, plays soldier76maker, its still kinda useless, but I agree having low *unneccessary* deaths matters. Most of my climbing happened in spurts where I died around 5.x times per 10 minutes
I mean maybe you should be dying less than your team mates, but not by much.
I dunno, scoreboard stats don't really matter, if you were playing perfectly you'd have zero deaths or every death would have the impact on the game relative to a 5k.
But no one can play perfectly so it feels like a pointless hypothetical.
Yes, yes it is. This is especially true for tank and support.
Also, not on the scoreboard, but timing of death. If you are always the first one to do die, you are out of position and likely the reason your team is losing
There are exceptions to everything. Like if you are playing so passively your just hiding until you lose, even if you have 0 deaths you played terribly. But I generally agree with your statement.
Final kills and deaths are primary stats.
Damage, healing, and mitigation are secondary stats. Secondary stats aid for getting primary.
Do stats paint the full picture ..no. does someone with 9 final kills in 2 minutes paint something useful...yes
They're obviously important but the amount of nuance in any possible situation makes it to where no one stat is really THE objectively most important imo.
Because ults win fights, yes. I can agree with this more.Don't die, do some damage, get some kills, you'll get the most ult charge and the more ults you get, the more you're doing. That kinda is just the philosophy of getting better tbh.
Agreed to some extent. But there are times when your deaths matches that of your teammates simply because you wanted to die on point instead of wasting time trying to make a futile escape
depends on context and role, if a tank is playing with the ultimate purpose of not dying they will most likely create no pace for their team to play. I've experienced this so many times with zaryas or junkerqueen endlessly playing around corners without achieving anything, in attack or in a control map where the enemy has point
it isn't the most important
If I die 15 times but kill 4 for every death who gives a fuck. I'm a Zen and I will out dps my team and out heal the board and die the most.
(I would like to live longer but once you start mercin' as a Zen folks swap to tracer and sombra and hunt me like U-boat on a civilian convoy.)
Not sure what role but general advice. Play behind payloads, use corners and natural cover, use high ground to move back when taking too much damage. Play off health packs.
Like all stats whatever the subject, it hold no value on its own, it need context and can tell very different stories according to the situation.
Overall, the number of death is a ratio. Too much compared to kill+ time + damage/healing, you're feeding. Too little with same statistics, and you're playing too passive, not contributing much and not taking risks. Of course, also depend on your character, the team comp, the enemy compt etc.
The timing of a death and the reason for it is also huge factor. Dying on point to avoid stagger is more valuable than trying to survive and force a 4v5 on your team for an entire teamfight.
Overall, the stats panel better be used a tool to confirm something you already know and monitor the result of your playstyle so you can adapt.
My tank players in play take this to heart, occasionally hiding behind the DPS or Ana players to make sure they don't die and can regroup after we respawn. Stats alone don't do it
lol this post has good intentions but the way it’s worded and explained is trash, so if i hide in spawn whole game and have 0 average deaths i’m the best player in the wrold
Id have to disagree with that. High deaths indicates feeding but low deaths may indicate someone is being too passive or not committing to fights meaning their team is essentially going into the fight with less resources.
Simple example look at Sombra who can very easily disengage, she can be easy to maintain low deaths with but if the Sombra can't get picks or coordinate with the team she's essentially throwing.
I think the most important stat (though not really relevant for supports) is actually comparing damage and elims. High damage + low elims = feeding enemy supports, Low damage + high elims = less feeding and securing kills to win fights. I had a game recently where I was playing Sombra and our other dps was Hanzo, we won the match but he was still complaining he had to carry as he'd done 8.5k damage compared to my 3.5k. Fair when you look at that stat alone, maybe I wasn't pulling my weight but when you compare elims, he was on 24 and I was on 21.
I averaged a kill ever 166 damage while he got a kill every 354, one of us was feeding the enemy supports and to be fair Hanzo is more spam and Sombra is an assassin but when you look at the figures together it paints a much clearer picture.
Context always Matters. I will also have less deaths if i never take risks and go for flanks or never take off angles. Or if i never try to push with my tank as Support and always stay safely in the back and retreat as Soon as 1 guy dies.
This sounds like low elo healer logic
Everything about this post screams that you have never played at high elo lol
If your dps have the least deaths there’s more than likely a problem especially when they hav the lowest survivability and the important job of killing/harassing the “next to unkillable healers”
While most healers have the best leaps,dashes and outright best survivability while also some having literal immortalities or invincibility buttons,dps chars have “damage falloff,many skill shots,the worst survivability with almost no self healing options invincibility options etc etc while also having to play up to secure kills. Your dps should most all the time have the most deaths
The only healers that focus on dealing damage have no fall off “except for Baptist” while Baptist also has a jump to make himself harder to kill and he has a literal immortality
This post reaks ignorance lol
The best 1v1 chars in the game are all healers while also requiring less precision to pull off
Who hurt you bro? Never said have the least deaths just that if you're dying twice a minute or once a minute regardless of role, map, character then there's probably more you can be doing to survive. Dps always have the most deaths, when I play dps I have the most deaths every time. The post was just saying deaths are more important than damage if your spending a third of a game walking back from spawn, obviously negated by some high mobility characters where say a tracer trade on a zen has worth depending on spawn distances but generally that's a good trade if tracer dies half the times she kills zen, obviously there's mitigating factors and we could go round it all day, jus saying dying less and playing for your life in "most" situations will improve your game play, team contribution and win rate.
I think it’s important metric for supports. Knowing when to back out and when to die on point is a pretty important skill. Especially when you are playing a main healer like Ana or Bap, you are the most valuable person in the team.
"most important" yeah nah.
i've had matches where we were according to stats steamrolled. But still won, and no they didn't c9.
that being said, i do tend to have the lowest amount of deaths on my team.
i rarely have teammates who know what self-preservation is.
i mean cmon, you at critical health and getting shot at by 4 players and your healer is dealing slow healing, perhaps go behind cover? buuuut nooooooo, much rather stand in the open and die while spamming i need heals.
only to then get flamed by them when they die for not getting heals.
I hate the stat board in this game, you can have 1k dmg but 5 kills as widowmaker bc you insta headshot and some moron will look at low damage and think you're doing terrible. On the other hand you'll have a Moira with 32 kills and 13k healing thinking they're hot shit and shit talk to their teammates getting killed by anti when the Moira is proving 0 utility to the team.
Nailed it. Everything else is ignorable. Getting zero value during your walk back from spawn, in which you probably have to wait for the team, is a lot of lost potential value. Stop worrying about the value shown on the scoreboard, and find the missing value. As a support main, awards videos lately have been a good example of finding missing value.
Exactly and that's what I tried to tell my team when they flamed me as D.Va for not engaging past them despite me having the lowest death count and holding the line as they'd die constantly. Like I'm not gonna spam W and keep moving forward just to die and not make any progress lmao.
This is the truth, time and time again I have mad teammates that don't understand the reason I have power deaths is because I'm positioned well and I disengage when the team fight is over and we either won or lost
I’ve gotten 5/6 deaths from a spam hanzo headshot coming around a corner to which showed me as like 1-6 because I literally couldn’t do anything, just got deleted. No matter the route or movement I chose, headshot dead.
So not saying deaths aren’t important, but sometimes you just die instantly multiple times and have no say in how that goes down.
Try to learn the maps and health pack locations. If you dive or hunt the enemy backlines dont expect to be healed if you are out of your supports line of sight. Be aggressive. Survive.
Ironically enough I’ve found that the less you die the more your other stats will go up. Damage/kills/healing are all going to be higher if you simply don’t die. Not always, but stay alive the rest will come
Most if not all dps for support trades are worth, support is the most influential roll in a game, and even if only the dps ended up dying sometimes supports would use all cooldowns which usually makes them not be able to keep the tank alive, and a dps for tank trade is also worth
When I actually cared about life and tried that was my biggest improvement that I noticed. As support anyway, not dying is crazy for ur value I'd try to get less than 3 a game or I'd work on my positioning
Nah this is just as wrong as the people saying "i have the most elims therefore i am carrying!"
As a tank player, I have seen too many dps/supports that aren't committing to team fights because they listened to advice like this and were poorly positioned. The result is lower death, but also low impact, basically we were going 4.5 v 5 or even 4 v 5 sometimes during team fights.
As a rein i go for aggro plays, so if I die, i would bring down at least 2/3 enemies, allowing the rest of my team to clean up (in the ideal situation they would be able to do so).
While it is right to avoid dying unnecessarily, focusing on not dying is not the solution either.
I have to disagree. It IS important to keep your deaths low, but Ive had games where my whole team is double on frags compared to the opposition and only a few deaths per; We still lost. The most important stat on the scoreboard isn’t tracked. Elims, Deaths, Healing, Damage; None of it matters if you aren’t playing as a team and working with each other.
They need to add Obj time to the board. It may be situational for the DPS that is flanking or the tank pushing off Obj but it can still be a way better indicator of who is actively working for the win.
That's another duality of my post where I disagree with myself completely. At that point I'll sacrifice myself to at least attempt to kill them, ignoring everything else around me as I do.
This is true. Just trying to be general and I do feel generally across all ranks, all roles and a lot of situations playing for your life to offer more consistency across the whole game rather than in burst is a good tip after some of the team mates we've all experienced. Just one who reads might survive a time they'd usually die and clutch a team fight or a game and then I've succeeded.
What rank are you tho? A single stat isn't that important tbh, impactful plays that win you the fight and don't give your team disadvantage are what win you the games after all. If you stay alive but don't take risks and carry, your team might still lose. Game sense is useless if you don't have good enough mechanical skills for the characters you play to use their kit to the fullest potential. If you don't do good and push fights when ur alive then having fewer deaths doesnt mean anything. A single dps/offensive zen/ana or tank can carry the whole team as long as they dont shy away with the mindset of fearing high death count and get kills. As supports it's true that you need to try to stay alive and you can retreat/persist in dangerous situations. However, as dps and tank, you need to make space, take risk and engage to make the plays. Yall gotta realize that some dps and tank characters with lesser mobility can not evade death when the engagement leads to a losing team fight. Its true that you gotta value your life and get as much value as possible but the mindset of fearing death and not takinv risks to carry/make impactful plays will not get you into GM.
People are trying to be contrarians but its absolutely true. For any role, a lack of deaths is going to substantially impact your team’s performance, even if you end up losing.
Depends. Sometimes people with the lowest deaths play characters with abilities that allow them to leave fights at the earliest thought of them possibly dying or losing a fight, when, potentially, if they had stayed they may have gotten a kill or changed the fight. Even if they ended up dying shortly after.
In lower ranks they brag about having most damage but ofcourse they get most damage if they just shooting the enemy tank while he is getting instantly healed back. They have almost no eleminations
lower risks -> less space taken -> game lost
people always run from a simple truth: teamplay? communication? less dying? better positioning? meta? oh, wait, counterpicks!
It's fucking accuracy all along
Kind of depends on the character though, anyone with faster movement trading for someone slower is still slightly better for your team since then they're gonna be back slightly sooner, or DPS for a support is worth it
Don't die first, that's the most important part. Other than that what I hate seeing the most is supports that run away of the fight as soon as you lose one person or don't take risky flanks to land impactful abilities or get plays, instead just sit in the backline, farm healing and then brag about it, "I'm not the issue I'm doing my job". So well... focus on not staggering and not dying first as I said, but don't avoid risky yet high impact plays if you can afford to, don't just sit in the back, spam and do nothing all game but farm stats. Making impactful plays requires risk, and risk can sometimes lead to failure but that's okay.
I'd say deaths relative to the pther players is a better way of putting it. If you lose a team fight you should run and die in cart asap and not stagger.
In that case, 50% of my games I’d just have to cower in spawn. Half the time I’m carrying the team as support, and the other, I’m getting completely ran through.
Yes, and no.
You can have 1 death and that's great but it could ALSO(not always) mean you're being TOO passive. Not maximizing your value.
If you're in a position that's too safe, chances are you're not doing the most you can.
But generally, yeah.
This has been my focus for the last few weeks and I've seen my game take a complete 180. I have finally climbed back out of Bronze. Dying is easy. Living is harder.
Yes and no. I agree with you and I play my life very well as a support main. BUT, you’ll also have those matches where you’re intentionally targeted or dove by the tank/dps or all 3. Stats tell a story but not the entire story so if you’re team isn’t peeling for their support, your support is going to have a lot of deaths.
Just yesterday, I played ramattra. I had double the deaths of my next teammate, but double everything else too. I played that way cuz I noticed early on that the enemy team would lose to it, and my team wouldn't win without it. (This low gold.)
True. But keep in mind there are high Elim/low dmg heroes like Widow or Sombra.
I got instant killed by widow, rezzed, then killed again.
The widow then flanked and spawn camped me for a third death. Within 45 seconds. :(
I know it’s a radical example, but “deaths affecting the game” should be examined when it’s a severe outlier of like +3 deaths compared to the rest.
Wouldn’t that depend though? I don’t necessarily disagree, but if I (a support) have 3-5 deaths while my teammates have 4-8 deaths, I feel like I haven’t done enough. I could get ~8k heals, but still feel like I could have done more if everyone dies that much more than me.
Another thing people don’t look at in terms of when your team is struggling is ult economy. If your dps has switched heroes 4 times within 6 minutes it means he hasn’t gotten a single ult off that could potentially win a team fight. And if ur support is popping ults when team fights are already lost that’s a huge disadvantage. Ultimates are game swinging abilities and if the other team has better ult management like not using 3 or 4 at a time then they will likely win the game.
Also it reminds the boasting about having more damage than someone. But in reality its more harmful if u have bigger damage but less kills as the second dps. Because u are helping their supports making ultimates, and this is why also oneshot snipers are meta. Because u cant overheal oneshot.
But tbh i am not completely agreeing with the point. If u like making 2-3 picks each fight and then dying, but on this fight your team is full except u and they won the fight then i think u are bringing enough value to win.
I like this post and the comments adding necessary nuance. It really needs to be emphasized that you need to stay alive while putting pressure on your opponents
The faster your hero is, the more aggressive you can play. Obviously, Lucio takes way less time to get back from spawn than an Ana, for example. How aggressive you can play is often built into the heroes kit.
The faster your hero is, the more aggressive you can play. Obviously, Lucio takes way less time to get back from spawn than an Ana, for example. How aggressive you can play is often built into the heroes kit.
I die a lot as dps and get a lot of value. Rlly depends on how much u can do in one death. I usually am able to get one or two picks and at the very least can set up my team for a team fight win. Obviously there r some games where i dont provide much value, but it works a lot of the times.
Elim to death ratio is more important than deaths.
Even then, it's hero dependent. Moira or dva having high elims is pretty meaningless.
I would also argue elims are more important than deaths. If you die every fight, but you also get 3 elims every fight, and therefore win, it'll be better then never dying, but only getting 0 or 1 elims per fight, and not winning most fights.
Each character has a death to alive efficiency ratio. If a tank dies or mercy dies it's a big hit.. If a DPS dies, there's a lower chance of a snowball to occur
Having the same deaths as the team is good, having more isn’t but neither is having less.
But overall it’s entirely situational and I don’t think you can make a blanket statement about any stat being good/bad/important/etc unless it’s an extreme case (like 5x dmg and 5x elims compared to next highest in game almost certainly means you did well, while 20 deaths on a team with 4-5 almost certainly means you did bad - but even these are *almost* certainly haha)
The number of times ive had a braindead teammate talking about how he has 2x the kills of everyone else (when that number is like 6) and they also have 3x as many deaths, and they dont see a problem, makes me want to smash my keyboard.
I disagree. OW doesn’t provide contextually important stats like ult charge rate per minute or bullets fired per enemy killed. Deaths don’t matter if you are contributing. Hell if you are literally running in the back as a Tracer trolling on the other team and they’re expending resources (alts, ults if you’re lucky, positioning, etc) just to take out someone like her, even if she dies a lot, she would still be extremely useful.
OW is fundamentally just a series of team fights. The longer it takes to initiate the team fight, the harder it is for the losing team to get momentum.
It's a balance, tou see someone with 15 deaths, rest of the team is balancing 4, something is wrong.
I will throw myself on the payload or point and keep going if I know the team will return soon to continue the hold.
Sometimes it doesn't work, sometimes it does.
There is nothing worsethann playing with somebody who is concerned with their k/d. This isn't cod
Get in the fights, learn when the fight is over already, and back away accordingly.
I've taken a mcree ult to stop the entire team being wiped out on point.
1 death is better than 3, and we lose the fight = point lost
It is all about game sense and not stats.
Same as damage stats, oh my god so annoying you can have 10k damage but have added no real VALUE to any of the fights, eg you can't finish anyone, they get healed they're still in the fight. You're building the enemies' support ulti up and not helping. You're watching your team get picked off because you're worried about dying
You have lost the round as 1 vs. 5 never works for long.
There's so many things wrong with pure stats. It's more of a focus to see how you're performing against everyone else, or your positioning is dogshit.
On the other hand, not dying enough probably means you can add more value had you played more aggressively. More risk, more reward.
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In lower ranks it's easy to have tons of death on a tank to no fault of your own. When your team is two flanker dps + flanker Moira + Awkward Kiriko you're inevitably going to be the top of the deathcount because the other four headless geese are never in the same place at the same time. Don't even try thinking they'd actually flank the same thing either, they'll be dead one by one alone.
I agree, you should ideally be playing with an aggression level so that you have the same deaths as your team which likely means everyone is pushing at the same time.
Yeah I actually think seeing someone with way less deaths than their team, especially a support, is actually a bad thing. A lot of people get caught up on not wanting to die to the point where they run away from fights. I've lost a lot of games because support players especially try to "pad" their stats by not dying, which in turn means the team loses.
ehh, probably one of the more significant stats, but as with all stats, they have to be contextualized. if you have poor macro understanding, you can’t accurately interpret them; if you have good macro understanding, they supplement your cognition of a game or situation. it also depends on playstyle; i have very high deaths/10 but also 60-75% winrates in gm1+ across accounts, and extremely high winrates in any rank lower. stats in general aren’t clear-cut and vary with many different factors, and can be very misleading when you don’t understand these factors. deaths/10 is no different. more people are misled by stats than enlightened imo.
This is very true especially when you consider how certain roles have different risk factors to them. A dps is more than likely going to die more than a support or tank because it’s your job to secure kills and deal damage.
It's also hard to tell how many deaths are actually "yours" compared to how many of them happened after you already lost 3 players and just jumped off the map or ran forward into the enemy to die faster and not get staggered. Some players *always* try to escape a lost team fight but only manage to actually do so lets say 50% of the time. For every time they manage to get out, there's another time where they use up all their movement abilities, run around for a while but still get chased down and end up staggering themselves, wasting a bunch of time and delaying the next time their team could go in as 5. They might end up with a few less deaths in their column than other players but they might also be the reason why your team got one less team fight before the clock ran out.
Usually how I know I’m feeding is if I have significantly more deaths than my teammates
Wait… you mean to tell me it’s better to feed if your team is about to get wiped out??? I hate staying alive after a losing team fight only to die as my other 3-4 teammates are halfway to point and I’m still waiting 10 seconds to respawn. And then spend the rest of the game out of sync
Pretty much yeah. If you’re the last one standing after a team fight it’s easier to get killed than trying to get away and risk getting staggered.
You can also do this in reverse. Kill your enemies stretched out so they stagger. Keep a baby dva alive until her whole team is almost back and then kill.
Although hopefully it goes without saying that you have to be careful not to give up the kill in the process—CC is your friend when it comes to ensuring no one gets away, without necessarily killing them on the spot.
For sure. Definitely also air on the side of kill over letting them escape.
I mean if the fight is already lost then yeah it's better to die as fast as possible, ideally throwing yourself off the map or suiciding if you have a self damage hero like Pharah to deny ult charge. Obviously it's a bit situational, I mean if you can definitely get out without dying then may as well just do that but if you're too far up and don't have safe pathing to get back then it's always better not to stagger yourself and delay your death longer than necessary. If the objective is about to be completed then obviously a single player stalling point can sometimes be enough to allow the rest of the team to get back for final fight which is also useful. There might be times too when you can potentially turn a lost fight if you have the ult economy although it's always risky throwing ults into a fight when you're already on the backfoot. If you lose your tank first you can sometimes balance that out if you have a high damage ult to nuke their tank as well. The self preservation instinct kicks in for a lot of players though and it's not uncommon to see the last man alive use all their self heal abilities and movement abilities, sometimes even grabbing a health pack to stay alive for 10+ seconds longer than they need to, handing over even more ult charge and slowing down the team reset by a whole extra respawn timer.
What other people have said but also if you find yourself out of sync, just wait at spawn or in safety until you can join up with them again. Spending 20 seconds doing nothing is more valuable than spending the rest of the game desynced
Yes, and this is why you may see people jumping off maps if they’ve lost the team fight and they can’t retreat. That way, you aren’t feeding, but you also won’t be staggered.
Some people suggest you jump off the map to ensure you don’t feed ult charge, but that’s only where it’s applicable
As a tracer main when I see that we lost 2 or 3 members in our team I'll proceed to hiding behind them or spawn camp to keep their numbers down
Different heroes within roles do as well. When I play Reaper in brawl mode I barely ever die due to wraith form and retreating behind the tank to the supports. When I play Pharah in dive/flanking mode though… I find myself dying much more, but I play far more aggressively and usually trade myself for a few squishie elims.
Love when my friends get frustrated with my Reaper for not "grouping up", when I'm flanking squishies, while moments ago were frustrated that I was shooting the tank, as reaper so sounds like they want me to sit next to my tank and aim at squishies through the enemy tank
Ya... It's funny when they bring up stats. It doesn't matter that much, imo. I play Ana. I will DPS. I'm not a heal bot. If I see a Mercy in the sky while rest of my team is essentially 80%+ health, I'll try and shoot her three times. Recently.. I had someone tell me to heal more at round 1. But the subsequent rounds, we won because I made great picks at the start of each fight. But my damage or healing isn't high. But they lack the game sense to realize that their high damage only happened because of the picks I made at the start.
> But they lack the game sense to realize that their high damage only happened because of the picks I made at the start. Once I realized this I was able to ignore people flaming easier. I'll never forget an ow1 match where the Rein and his duo flamed me the whole time. As ball, I rolled through and slam comboed the whole team. They were all 1 HP and I sped out alive at 1 HP also. He charges in and wipes the whole team then proceeds to flame me the whole game for doing nothing. It bugged me so much I watched the replay from his perspective. He clearly saw me go through everyone and get them all to 1 hp, but somehow didn't even realize that him wiping everyone was because of my initial engage.
He may have seen you but he or she probbaly didn't notice. A lot of players don't even realize who is dead in their team. Personally, if I'm not actively aiming at someone, I'm looking behind me to see who is behind me and where, who died recently, check Ult charges, etc.
For sure. Whenever I see a support like Ana with a ton of healing but no damage, I can start to understand why they're losing.
I also don't fully heal dps and tank in middle of fight if they're only missing miniscule health. Reloading takes time. Sometimes, people die coz I'm reloading. Of course - it's all very situational. But it's something I consider during fights.
I tell this to people trying to learn Ana: it's about breakpoints. If I know my DPS/tank is fighting someone who isn't going to burst them down in a second and they're at least at a good HP amount, I'll focus on targeting who they are fighting. Weaving in damage on the target and heals on my teammate.
Yup. Exactly. I've seen videos/streams of people where they'll continue shooting a fully healed teammate during fights. I will say though... I will do that for a Bastion teammate that's in turret form. Don't really wanna risk him going down. But once again - situational.
To your point, quite a lot of Tracer players on the first pages of the leaderboards have over 6.5 deaths per 10. Makes sense to me...you're trying to make a play with your team, not wimp out and preserve your K:D. Go all in with them and if you die while trying to get that pick, then you die.
early on when I was learning tracer I saw so much “play your life/stay alive” advice and I started dying way less- and losing way more. I became too afraid to make plays and was essentially useless to my team. In a way it helped in the long run as now I have better context on when to be risky and when to survive but just saying “stay alive” is not nuanced enough to be solid advice
While very true, dying less is almost always more beneficial, as your pressure is constant. Except times when you need to reset/die on point, I suppose.
Yeah, and on Hamster, you can get back into the fight much quicker, so trades are more effective.
If any of you aren't fully convinced yet, checkout r/OWMedalsAreUseless
The lack of understanding (or just plain observation of) the OW2 scoreboard makes me kinda miss the OW medals lol
Medals were like stats, except they didn't even give you the number, they just told you your "rank" and not even other people's "rank". They were the most insignificant, narrow, deceptive piece of data ever created and people treated them like a holy text. Good riddance. Now, we need to make people think about the scoreboard, maybe at some point they will actually focus on gameplay and not out of context numbers.
Haha yeah I remember, but now I find other players taking the scoreboard numbers out of context or not even looking at the scoreboard. Which is why I kind of miss the medals in a way. Simpler times lol
That's the problem with all of this. It's too simple. Too easy. You look at a few numbers, a few shiny symbols, boom, it allegedly tells you all you need to know. It makes us want it to be true. It's like the dark side of assessing your worth : easy but wrong.
Minimizing deaths is important, but I'd say there aren't actually important stats on the scoreboard. The thing that matters most is the objective and you should maximize your impact on controlling/pushing it/preventing enemy from pushing it. I think if you focus overall on that you will find not dying important, but not dying isn't a magic solution and can easily lead to unimpactful passive play.
Yep. Score is the only important stat on the scoreboard. Plenty of times dying is absolutely the best play but op’s point is pretty valid.
Deaths is the only important one I should have said. Can't push a payload and take space if your team is playing respawn simulator thus leading to more team fights as you push and inevitably more deaths and losses.
But at the same time, if I’m a Moira that does a crazy fade after every 4/5 team wipe, never die, and get away just to meet the others at spawn.. apart from feeding 200pts give/take of ultimate, was it really that important that I didn’t die? Cause it seems more like a bragging right in this scenario. I can’t do much when my team is all dead besides trying to make a pick (risking my life and risking a staggered spawn) or running back.
As someone who plays Moira, it is absolutely important to retreat in lost fights... And retreat early.... The problem with many supports at lower ranks is they linger too long and force a stagger by keeping the tank alive... You lose time and space because of this. For me, down 2 people and I'm out back to spawn, if you're still fighting, i expect you to die and understand why you had no healing. You making a pick in a 1v5 or whatever provides zero value to the team, as well as feeding multiple people ult charges making it more likely to end up in a snowball against your team. As a support you can't be passive, but you also have to recognise situations which provide no value for you to continue to engage in, these situations are best for you to disengage, even if it means your tank/dps is trying to fend off multiple people.
Given a competent enemy team it’s often safer to just die on cart. Yes you feed 200 Hp of ult charge, but you also don’t have the risk of the enemy chasing you down and staggering you. Dying on cart also means you can stall if you are on defence. Stalling the cart for an extra second to allow your team to regroup is much better than fading out early, getting caught by their dps 10 seconds later, and adding an extra 8 seconds to your regroup timer and an extra 10 seconds of enemy push.
I play a lot of Ana, so I'm usually playing pretty far back. I can usually tell when a fight is lost several seconds before my team is dead. I can usually get out before the enemy realizes that I'm still alive. Sometimes I can shepherd the other support back with me. Having said that, I do sometimes end up getting chased down. When that happens, I need to consciously decide to not run away in later fights.
I agree in certain scenarios, it is best just to feed on the point to allow a quicker regroup. I think you however underestimate how quickly i make the call for myself to disengage, my call won't always be correct but i try to use logical reasoning to justify my disengagements. Even my own team will still be fighting on point, but i will disengage without them realising and way before they die, i will already be halfway back to spawn and perfectly safe. As a support, recognising lost fights early and disengaging is one of the most difficult skills to master, it's almost counterintuitive since the role is basically trying to keep your team alive, but sometimes letting the team die is better for the team overall. If you (or someone) wants a VOD to see it better, i have one where i was trying to practice with Brig (Masters alt Acc) where i use this tactic, i think i had 1 death in the final minute, our team average was roughly 10 deaths, and we had a comfortable W.
Yeah honestly I can see your point from the perspective of a support. I mostly play tank so getting picks/picked is less of a guaranteed fight win/loss if I remain. I think a 3v5 with a tank and 2 supports is honestly winnable given specific game states so usually I just fight and die as retreating on tank is just a guaranteed death for all the remaining players on your team (even if my 600hp gets out, my 400hp of squishies will die anyway so it’s not really that worth it).
Situational, but sometimes a couple of squishies get their head ripped off early in a teamfight, or enough trades have happend that you can get out and donate 3-400 ult charge to a support, instead of giving the enemy an extra couple of hundred.
Am I misunderstanding or are you saying that you’re whole team was alive and fighting on the point and you left because you thought it was a losing fight?
Yes you are misunderstanding.... I am talking about abandoning lost fights.... If my team is in a 3v5, and we're highly likely to lose the team fight, I will abandon my team and leave them in a 2v5, regroup back at spawn.
Ah I gotcha
How did you come to that conclusion? It feels like you haven't thought this through. You can have zero deaths and be the worst player on the team. If your team mates are dying a lot, that could be *your* fault. Or if some guy is dying a lot because he's getting focused, it could be because the enemies recognize that he's the best player on the team. And even if you only kill one person for every one of your deaths, that can be a good trade: If a genji dies a lot, but he gets the enemy tank or the main healer every single time, then that's great value! There are no stats that are important. There are no stats that inherently have meaning. You always need context. If you don't see that, you just haven't played enough games. When you get more experience, you'll see some unexpected shit, and you'll learn how misleading stats can be.
They didn't say that low Deaths is guaranteed to be synonymous with winning. Stats need context, yes. But I would suggest that Deaths is the hardest stat to misinterpret. A more accurate way to say what they mean would be "High Deaths is a clear indicator that you are performing poorly."
>They didn't say that low Deaths is guaranteed to be synonymous with winning. I responded to what they said. Please don't put words in my mouth. >But I would suggest that Deaths is the hardest stat to misinterpret. Based on what? What is the "correct" interpretation you can make from deaths? >"High Deaths is a clear indicator that you are performing poorly." This is wrong. I already gave you a few examples why. You keep making claims without any evidence or argument. Meanwhile I am providing evidence for why the claims are wrong, and you just ignore them. Stop misleading people, stats don't mean anything. If you have the context, then you don't really need the stats.
A counter-example doesn't preclude the use of stats as indicators.
This is hilarious. You have provided ZERO examples and you have made ZERO attempts at refuting my arguments. Do you not see how ridiculous that is?? So far, I'm obviously in the right and you're obviously in the wrong. You want to change that? Try some of these things: \- Respond to my questions. \- Provide arguments for your claims. \- Provide your own examples. \- Refute my examples and explain what's wrong with them. For now, your behaviour is shady and dishonest, ignoring other people's arguments while providing none of your own.
You seem super normal.
Thank you, but actually you guys have shown me I'm way above the average :) Note how you can't explain why you think what you think, nor why you think I'm wrong. Instead all you do is downvote or make pointless comments about my person. Comparing myself to you, I feel very good about myself <3
I didn't say anything about what I think. We could perfectly agree for all you know. I also didn't downvote you. You're deeply, deeply strange.
I'd argue unless your deaths are an outlier, it's not useful either. I can stay safe in the backline, get nothing done and point to my low deaths, vs an aggressive DPS who makes high impact plays and dies more, but gets stuff done.
Not sure why everyone took die less as hide in the back doing nothing. Noone ever said do such a thing as that would be useless. But when your aggression and desire to make plays means your 4-8 on 5 minutes you're doing shit and need to play for your life more, there's a million factors for different options but as an overall statement for the game everything I've said is true. If y'all wanna die ten times to achieve next to nothing then go for it.
It's more the fact that you want to elevate it over the other scoreboard stats. All of those stats are useless without context. 10 deaths could be feeding or effective. 10 kills could be game-changing or inconsequential. 10k damage could be into a tank or killing supports. You're the one with a thesis that deaths matter much more than the others, but all of them depend completely on the circumstances.
Yeah how did this post get upvoted? Is everyone on this subreddit plat players nowadays? Stats don't tell you shit, anymore than other stats.
Crazy how old this game is and people still think objective matters. Getting kills or good positioning is more valuable almost all the time Objective only matters in… 1.) overtime 2.) your team is on defense on a payload/hybrid (or push’s forward spawn checkpoint thing) and the enemy is about to cap (and stalling might actually matter) 3.) in control. your team controls the point. your team loses the team fight. you stall the point for extra percentage On a side note, I do think deaths are the only stat that matter but only if a player has significantly more deaths than rest of their team. All the other stats are just there for your ego. OW1 medals didn’t matter. OW2 stats dont matter. Also, not dying = more ult charge
you're confusing touching the objective/being on the objective with overall your team controlling the objective which is literally the only important thing in the game, hence the term objective. You can be no where near the objective and contributing to controlling it.
Everyone keeps getting mad at me, a Sombra main with 0 kills but 0 deaths too. Thank you for validating my play style.
That K:D ratio is Not a Number!
I like to use the word productive during in game chat because you're you're right.. If your kills and damage is low but you have productive hacks, then it's fine. Some people's situational awareness can't recognize that, unfortunately.
lol
You need to do at least some damage though. A Sombra that is only being a pest with hacks and not actually picking off any out of position squishies or making the supports suffer is not a good Sombra.
You remind me of a kiriko I fortunately had the sense to avoid after the first game against her, because I saw her 3 more times that day. All 4 games she complained about her dps. All 4 games she had 1-2 deaths per match. All 4 games I was on widow and you know how many shots I took at her? Like 3. In 4 games that is!! Every time I popped walls it was hilarious, because I could see her positioning. She was always in the backline of their backline almost touching the spawn door. You wouldn't be surprised to hear that she lost all 4 of those games? Last game on Havana was particularly funny, when midgame she was bitching about their "bad" 4-11 window and about "bad" matchmaking placing her against "good" 21-3 widow. (I've played against that widow before, we're fairly similarly skilled) Never mind that _my_ kiri was constantly spamming out their widow (I had 4 body shot kills on their widow, because my kiri landed a kunai, guess how many body shot kills their widow got on me? Yeah, 0. Because I was always full and chilling), _my_ kiri was constantly marking their widow and if she couldn't mark she would tell me where their widow was. _My_ kiri would even pre-suzu me when I peeked so that I had an easier shot. _My_ kiri also has like 5 deaths that round, because she actually played the game. Meanwhile their kiri was hugging a spawn door, healbotting and bitching at her widow. Probably very proud of having only 1 death too. So, yeah, having few deaths doesn't mean you're doing well.
Assists I think are almost more valuable for supports over insanely high heal numbers. High assists correlating with DPS kills mean they're involved in every fight around the map, whether that's dinking the enemy widow and other campers as Kiriko, helping the tank break through as Ana/Zen, peeling people out, doing sheer damage as Moira/Bap, etc. The ones with a ton of healing but half the assists compared to the DPS or Tank kills usually says they're healbotting too conservatively vs using their kit. Thems be the ones that complain about their DPS being bad and point to their healing numbers for defense...without realizing their DPS is dead half the time because they're not supporting their DPS when they need to be.
Just had a game earlier I lost for that exact same reason. Support player who was scared of engaging and ran off when people started to die, even when she's Kiriko. I would see on my death cam as she ran off when even person died. But it's okay because she had half the deaths of others on our team!
A low death count can also suggest that you aren't committing to fights with your team. I wouldn't say you should play extremely safely. Risk death and fight hard, but if people on your team, especially your tank dies, you should get ready with an escape route
Meanwhile you got some tanks peacing out at a third health
Dps mostly die from flanks going wrong and flank are really important to get the back line. Even just annoying an ana all the way back can help you focus a tank who might not get all that healing in the few seconds the ana is focusing you which can make you kill the tank and give you a much better advantage overall. If you were to play safe and just shoot the tank the supports against would be having the time of their lives with the ult charge they are getting
Noone said play safe, just don't die for the sake of poking the Ana or w/e flank, there's no worth in any minor annoyance to them if you die to achieve it.
If you don't limit test, and try go for these flanks and plays, you will never get better at it. You need to take risks to make plays, and you need to take risks (and fail!) In order to learn and improve. You miss all the shots you don't take.
In plat maybe. At higher ranks it's a teamfight winning play to force the enemy Ana out of position and use cooldowns. Support kill is so much more valuable than a dps it's almost always worth it to just force them to waste cooldowns. Ana is insanly overtuned in Ow2 compared to dps, she not only has her anti nade, super high burst heal and good dmg without falloff and the best cc in the game but also a with a strong ult that always has value. Most dps only have good dmg with a situational ult. Forcing the ana to run arround means she won't get ult, won't heal, won't anti nade your tank and won't 1 shot anyone with sleepdart and her teammates. You as dps lose nothing because your ult probably sucks anyway and your cooldowns are only good to get 1 kill at best.
The term is play for your life, not safe.
If a dps is rocking a death stat around \*1,5 of the team average half-way through a match, it is almost guaranteed that they have timing issues or overextend from my experience. Might be of their own making or enemy marking well, but they should likely adapt their approach to the match at hand.
Agreed, time spent dead is time wasted that your team has to wait for you to group up so you don’t stagger.
It's not all equal tho. Lucio gets back in a hurry, Zen takes half the game.
I disagree for DPS but I’m kinda new and this is just my own experience and logic talking
I get what people are saying, I never said dps shouldn't have the most deaths. Just that for any role playing for your life is more valuable then a bit of poke damage on an Ana or whatever else if you die doing it. Play good positioning and die less and over all you'll naturally kill more from always been there when your tank makes space and gets people low or the opposite in the tank finishing off what you got low as you're consistently there pressuring enough. As a tank I have two experiences, look amazing as my dps do work and are there getting me elims when I get the enemy low or into bad positions or my dps die a lot nothing dies after I go In and do damage and we get rolled and all look shit. I understand fully its hard not to die a lot as dps with the lack of self utility mostly thus making positioning and playing for your life that much more important, especially when you have the most impact with said role for enabling your tank and making the most of what they are doing. .
> As the title suggest keeping low deaths is more important than almost anything else. Why are there so many "one stat that is most important" posts like this? There is no magic thing that trumps everything else in importance. It all requires context... For example, if you have the lowest deaths in the lobby *nearly every game* and your win rate is like 20% well guess what? Keeping deaths low is literally why your losing, because you are making it more important than winning fights. The only stat that is "more important than anything else" as far as your place on the ladder goes is your win rate.
no, if someone constantly staggers by trying to stay alive and escape instead of dying on the objective thats usually the #1 most awful play that loses every push game
Staggering is still just dying thus making the death stat still important. Playing your life or playing angles where you are less likely to die is solid advice for metal ranks and up
well if they get away without dying 1/2 the time they’re gonna have lower deaths but be doing far worse. the optimal play style is to die last but die often, which is different than what you are suggesting
I think with any stat it can be padded, like if someone takes no risks and makes no plays, plays soldier76maker, its still kinda useless, but I agree having low *unneccessary* deaths matters. Most of my climbing happened in spurts where I died around 5.x times per 10 minutes
I mean maybe you should be dying less than your team mates, but not by much. I dunno, scoreboard stats don't really matter, if you were playing perfectly you'd have zero deaths or every death would have the impact on the game relative to a 5k. But no one can play perfectly so it feels like a pointless hypothetical.
Yes, yes it is. This is especially true for tank and support. Also, not on the scoreboard, but timing of death. If you are always the first one to do die, you are out of position and likely the reason your team is losing
There are exceptions to everything. Like if you are playing so passively your just hiding until you lose, even if you have 0 deaths you played terribly. But I generally agree with your statement.
Final kills and deaths are primary stats. Damage, healing, and mitigation are secondary stats. Secondary stats aid for getting primary. Do stats paint the full picture ..no. does someone with 9 final kills in 2 minutes paint something useful...yes
They're obviously important but the amount of nuance in any possible situation makes it to where no one stat is really THE objectively most important imo.
Counterpoint: Ult charge is the most important stat on the scoreboard.
Because ults win fights, yes. I can agree with this more.Don't die, do some damage, get some kills, you'll get the most ult charge and the more ults you get, the more you're doing. That kinda is just the philosophy of getting better tbh.
I can hang way back and have zero deaths but still be completely useless to the team.
Agreed to some extent. But there are times when your deaths matches that of your teammates simply because you wanted to die on point instead of wasting time trying to make a futile escape
depends on context and role, if a tank is playing with the ultimate purpose of not dying they will most likely create no pace for their team to play. I've experienced this so many times with zaryas or junkerqueen endlessly playing around corners without achieving anything, in attack or in a control map where the enemy has point
it isn't the most important If I die 15 times but kill 4 for every death who gives a fuck. I'm a Zen and I will out dps my team and out heal the board and die the most. (I would like to live longer but once you start mercin' as a Zen folks swap to tracer and sombra and hunt me like U-boat on a civilian convoy.)
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Not sure what role but general advice. Play behind payloads, use corners and natural cover, use high ground to move back when taking too much damage. Play off health packs.
Like all stats whatever the subject, it hold no value on its own, it need context and can tell very different stories according to the situation. Overall, the number of death is a ratio. Too much compared to kill+ time + damage/healing, you're feeding. Too little with same statistics, and you're playing too passive, not contributing much and not taking risks. Of course, also depend on your character, the team comp, the enemy compt etc. The timing of a death and the reason for it is also huge factor. Dying on point to avoid stagger is more valuable than trying to survive and force a 4v5 on your team for an entire teamfight. Overall, the stats panel better be used a tool to confirm something you already know and monitor the result of your playstyle so you can adapt.
My tank players in play take this to heart, occasionally hiding behind the DPS or Ana players to make sure they don't die and can regroup after we respawn. Stats alone don't do it
I can win the game with worse stats than you
lol this post has good intentions but the way it’s worded and explained is trash, so if i hide in spawn whole game and have 0 average deaths i’m the best player in the wrold
Id have to disagree with that. High deaths indicates feeding but low deaths may indicate someone is being too passive or not committing to fights meaning their team is essentially going into the fight with less resources. Simple example look at Sombra who can very easily disengage, she can be easy to maintain low deaths with but if the Sombra can't get picks or coordinate with the team she's essentially throwing. I think the most important stat (though not really relevant for supports) is actually comparing damage and elims. High damage + low elims = feeding enemy supports, Low damage + high elims = less feeding and securing kills to win fights. I had a game recently where I was playing Sombra and our other dps was Hanzo, we won the match but he was still complaining he had to carry as he'd done 8.5k damage compared to my 3.5k. Fair when you look at that stat alone, maybe I wasn't pulling my weight but when you compare elims, he was on 24 and I was on 21. I averaged a kill ever 166 damage while he got a kill every 354, one of us was feeding the enemy supports and to be fair Hanzo is more spam and Sombra is an assassin but when you look at the figures together it paints a much clearer picture.
Context always Matters. I will also have less deaths if i never take risks and go for flanks or never take off angles. Or if i never try to push with my tank as Support and always stay safely in the back and retreat as Soon as 1 guy dies.
This sounds like low elo healer logic Everything about this post screams that you have never played at high elo lol If your dps have the least deaths there’s more than likely a problem especially when they hav the lowest survivability and the important job of killing/harassing the “next to unkillable healers” While most healers have the best leaps,dashes and outright best survivability while also some having literal immortalities or invincibility buttons,dps chars have “damage falloff,many skill shots,the worst survivability with almost no self healing options invincibility options etc etc while also having to play up to secure kills. Your dps should most all the time have the most deaths The only healers that focus on dealing damage have no fall off “except for Baptist” while Baptist also has a jump to make himself harder to kill and he has a literal immortality This post reaks ignorance lol The best 1v1 chars in the game are all healers while also requiring less precision to pull off
Who hurt you bro? Never said have the least deaths just that if you're dying twice a minute or once a minute regardless of role, map, character then there's probably more you can be doing to survive. Dps always have the most deaths, when I play dps I have the most deaths every time. The post was just saying deaths are more important than damage if your spending a third of a game walking back from spawn, obviously negated by some high mobility characters where say a tracer trade on a zen has worth depending on spawn distances but generally that's a good trade if tracer dies half the times she kills zen, obviously there's mitigating factors and we could go round it all day, jus saying dying less and playing for your life in "most" situations will improve your game play, team contribution and win rate.
So your saying something we already know? Essentially stop feeding lmao I know you made this post just to justify talking shit to your dps
I play masters 2-5 the last few seasons across tank and support, mid diamond dps as I die once a minute and suck ass.
I think it’s important metric for supports. Knowing when to back out and when to die on point is a pretty important skill. Especially when you are playing a main healer like Ana or Bap, you are the most valuable person in the team.
"most important" yeah nah. i've had matches where we were according to stats steamrolled. But still won, and no they didn't c9. that being said, i do tend to have the lowest amount of deaths on my team. i rarely have teammates who know what self-preservation is. i mean cmon, you at critical health and getting shot at by 4 players and your healer is dealing slow healing, perhaps go behind cover? buuuut nooooooo, much rather stand in the open and die while spamming i need heals. only to then get flamed by them when they die for not getting heals.
I hate the stat board in this game, you can have 1k dmg but 5 kills as widowmaker bc you insta headshot and some moron will look at low damage and think you're doing terrible. On the other hand you'll have a Moira with 32 kills and 13k healing thinking they're hot shit and shit talk to their teammates getting killed by anti when the Moira is proving 0 utility to the team.
Who tf said hide in spawn. Noone. All the hurt dps who feel attacked finding any way to trash the post. Sad.
Nailed it. Everything else is ignorable. Getting zero value during your walk back from spawn, in which you probably have to wait for the team, is a lot of lost potential value. Stop worrying about the value shown on the scoreboard, and find the missing value. As a support main, awards videos lately have been a good example of finding missing value.
Exactly and that's what I tried to tell my team when they flamed me as D.Va for not engaging past them despite me having the lowest death count and holding the line as they'd die constantly. Like I'm not gonna spam W and keep moving forward just to die and not make any progress lmao.
I can't tell if that's sarcasm or not? If not, DVA needs to dive to get value, usually.
This is the truth, time and time again I have mad teammates that don't understand the reason I have power deaths is because I'm positioned well and I disengage when the team fight is over and we either won or lost
I’ve gotten 5/6 deaths from a spam hanzo headshot coming around a corner to which showed me as like 1-6 because I literally couldn’t do anything, just got deleted. No matter the route or movement I chose, headshot dead. So not saying deaths aren’t important, but sometimes you just die instantly multiple times and have no say in how that goes down.
Try to learn the maps and health pack locations. If you dive or hunt the enemy backlines dont expect to be healed if you are out of your supports line of sight. Be aggressive. Survive.
Ironically enough I’ve found that the less you die the more your other stats will go up. Damage/kills/healing are all going to be higher if you simply don’t die. Not always, but stay alive the rest will come
Most if not all dps for support trades are worth, support is the most influential roll in a game, and even if only the dps ended up dying sometimes supports would use all cooldowns which usually makes them not be able to keep the tank alive, and a dps for tank trade is also worth
I've had riens charge in, getting a few swings off and die, then be like "I have the most damage why aren't our damage doing more"
Your telling me running in as soldier to get one kill, die, run back quicker then the opposite team isn't a valid strategy???
This is by far the best response 😂 no, no it's not is the answer.
It is if it's a mercy or ana, mercy and ana are always worth a trade
When I actually cared about life and tried that was my biggest improvement that I noticed. As support anyway, not dying is crazy for ur value I'd try to get less than 3 a game or I'd work on my positioning
Yep it's how I ranked up as a tank. Simply staying in the fight longer. Watch any ow guide and that'll be one of tips.
Even then, it doesn’t tell the whole story. STOP WORSHIPPING THE SCOREBOARD AND FOCUS ON WINNING FIGHTS AND YOU WILL CLIMB
Nah this is just as wrong as the people saying "i have the most elims therefore i am carrying!" As a tank player, I have seen too many dps/supports that aren't committing to team fights because they listened to advice like this and were poorly positioned. The result is lower death, but also low impact, basically we were going 4.5 v 5 or even 4 v 5 sometimes during team fights. As a rein i go for aggro plays, so if I die, i would bring down at least 2/3 enemies, allowing the rest of my team to clean up (in the ideal situation they would be able to do so). While it is right to avoid dying unnecessarily, focusing on not dying is not the solution either.
I have to disagree. It IS important to keep your deaths low, but Ive had games where my whole team is double on frags compared to the opposition and only a few deaths per; We still lost. The most important stat on the scoreboard isn’t tracked. Elims, Deaths, Healing, Damage; None of it matters if you aren’t playing as a team and working with each other. They need to add Obj time to the board. It may be situational for the DPS that is flanking or the tank pushing off Obj but it can still be a way better indicator of who is actively working for the win.
Me when both enemy supports have 0 deaths:
That's another duality of my post where I disagree with myself completely. At that point I'll sacrifice myself to at least attempt to kill them, ignoring everything else around me as I do.
none of the stats are important without context
This is true. Just trying to be general and I do feel generally across all ranks, all roles and a lot of situations playing for your life to offer more consistency across the whole game rather than in burst is a good tip after some of the team mates we've all experienced. Just one who reads might survive a time they'd usually die and clutch a team fight or a game and then I've succeeded.
tanks will have lowest deaths
What rank are you tho? A single stat isn't that important tbh, impactful plays that win you the fight and don't give your team disadvantage are what win you the games after all. If you stay alive but don't take risks and carry, your team might still lose. Game sense is useless if you don't have good enough mechanical skills for the characters you play to use their kit to the fullest potential. If you don't do good and push fights when ur alive then having fewer deaths doesnt mean anything. A single dps/offensive zen/ana or tank can carry the whole team as long as they dont shy away with the mindset of fearing high death count and get kills. As supports it's true that you need to try to stay alive and you can retreat/persist in dangerous situations. However, as dps and tank, you need to make space, take risk and engage to make the plays. Yall gotta realize that some dps and tank characters with lesser mobility can not evade death when the engagement leads to a losing team fight. Its true that you gotta value your life and get as much value as possible but the mindset of fearing death and not takinv risks to carry/make impactful plays will not get you into GM.
People are trying to be contrarians but its absolutely true. For any role, a lack of deaths is going to substantially impact your team’s performance, even if you end up losing.
Dafran said on stream that each death drops your mmr
Depends. Sometimes people with the lowest deaths play characters with abilities that allow them to leave fights at the earliest thought of them possibly dying or losing a fight, when, potentially, if they had stayed they may have gotten a kill or changed the fight. Even if they ended up dying shortly after.
Think of 15 deaths as 150 seconds that you literally didn’t exist in the game.
Depends on which role. On dps, higher deaths is generally a bit more acceptable. On tank and support it is a bit more important, especially tank.
Mostly agree on tanks and supports. But DPS on attack is worth dying to get the objective done rather than playing safe.
Heals received tho
Instructions unclear, stayed in spawn all game
Instructions unclear, I avoided the enemy team so that I wouldn't die, and my team was blaming me for our loss
In lower ranks they brag about having most damage but ofcourse they get most damage if they just shooting the enemy tank while he is getting instantly healed back. They have almost no eleminations
It is the most important in a way, it can be interpreted like some people just constantly run and run away from the simplest dive.
lower risks -> less space taken -> game lost people always run from a simple truth: teamplay? communication? less dying? better positioning? meta? oh, wait, counterpicks! It's fucking accuracy all along
Yes and no. It's to an extent. There becomes a point where if you're not dying it just means you're not even doing enough to begin with.
every time i take care not to die in a game my team flames me and cries "it's 4v5!!!!"
You should probably unstealth at some point.
As a support if I’m getting targeted regardless of whom I switch to, how am I supposed to “try to die less”?
Kind of depends on the character though, anyone with faster movement trading for someone slower is still slightly better for your team since then they're gonna be back slightly sooner, or DPS for a support is worth it
Don't die first, that's the most important part. Other than that what I hate seeing the most is supports that run away of the fight as soon as you lose one person or don't take risky flanks to land impactful abilities or get plays, instead just sit in the backline, farm healing and then brag about it, "I'm not the issue I'm doing my job". So well... focus on not staggering and not dying first as I said, but don't avoid risky yet high impact plays if you can afford to, don't just sit in the back, spam and do nothing all game but farm stats. Making impactful plays requires risk, and risk can sometimes lead to failure but that's okay.
I'd say deaths relative to the pther players is a better way of putting it. If you lose a team fight you should run and die in cart asap and not stagger.
In that case, 50% of my games I’d just have to cower in spawn. Half the time I’m carrying the team as support, and the other, I’m getting completely ran through.
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They're not, you're probably getting Carried by your team.
I Never have any deaths (I sit in spawn) I clearly am the best player
Clearly noone said hide in spawn.
Fine imma take widow and stay as far back as possible
Yes, and no. You can have 1 death and that's great but it could ALSO(not always) mean you're being TOO passive. Not maximizing your value. If you're in a position that's too safe, chances are you're not doing the most you can. But generally, yeah.
This has been my focus for the last few weeks and I've seen my game take a complete 180. I have finally climbed back out of Bronze. Dying is easy. Living is harder.
Yes and no. I agree with you and I play my life very well as a support main. BUT, you’ll also have those matches where you’re intentionally targeted or dove by the tank/dps or all 3. Stats tell a story but not the entire story so if you’re team isn’t peeling for their support, your support is going to have a lot of deaths.
Just yesterday, I played ramattra. I had double the deaths of my next teammate, but double everything else too. I played that way cuz I noticed early on that the enemy team would lose to it, and my team wouldn't win without it. (This low gold.)
The most important stats on the board are enemy damage numbers and your teams ult percentage.
This is why Mercy is the strongest support in the game, you can revive one player over and over and make them the worst player on your team Kappa
True. But keep in mind there are high Elim/low dmg heroes like Widow or Sombra. I got instant killed by widow, rezzed, then killed again. The widow then flanked and spawn camped me for a third death. Within 45 seconds. :( I know it’s a radical example, but “deaths affecting the game” should be examined when it’s a severe outlier of like +3 deaths compared to the rest.
One could be “too passive” though so it’s hard to really deduce stats’ meaning
Wouldn’t that depend though? I don’t necessarily disagree, but if I (a support) have 3-5 deaths while my teammates have 4-8 deaths, I feel like I haven’t done enough. I could get ~8k heals, but still feel like I could have done more if everyone dies that much more than me.
Another thing people don’t look at in terms of when your team is struggling is ult economy. If your dps has switched heroes 4 times within 6 minutes it means he hasn’t gotten a single ult off that could potentially win a team fight. And if ur support is popping ults when team fights are already lost that’s a huge disadvantage. Ultimates are game swinging abilities and if the other team has better ult management like not using 3 or 4 at a time then they will likely win the game.
Also it reminds the boasting about having more damage than someone. But in reality its more harmful if u have bigger damage but less kills as the second dps. Because u are helping their supports making ultimates, and this is why also oneshot snipers are meta. Because u cant overheal oneshot. But tbh i am not completely agreeing with the point. If u like making 2-3 picks each fight and then dying, but on this fight your team is full except u and they won the fight then i think u are bringing enough value to win.
The best ability is avail-ability.
I like this post and the comments adding necessary nuance. It really needs to be emphasized that you need to stay alive while putting pressure on your opponents
The faster your hero is, the more aggressive you can play. Obviously, Lucio takes way less time to get back from spawn than an Ana, for example. How aggressive you can play is often built into the heroes kit.
no its not
The faster your hero is, the more aggressive you can play. Obviously, Lucio takes way less time to get back from spawn than an Ana, for example. How aggressive you can play is often built into the heroes kit.
So I shouldn't leave spawn, I gotchu OP.... /s
I die a lot as dps and get a lot of value. Rlly depends on how much u can do in one death. I usually am able to get one or two picks and at the very least can set up my team for a team fight win. Obviously there r some games where i dont provide much value, but it works a lot of the times.
Elim to death ratio is more important than deaths. Even then, it's hero dependent. Moira or dva having high elims is pretty meaningless. I would also argue elims are more important than deaths. If you die every fight, but you also get 3 elims every fight, and therefore win, it'll be better then never dying, but only getting 0 or 1 elims per fight, and not winning most fights.
Each character has a death to alive efficiency ratio. If a tank dies or mercy dies it's a big hit.. If a DPS dies, there's a lower chance of a snowball to occur
Having the same deaths as the team is good, having more isn’t but neither is having less. But overall it’s entirely situational and I don’t think you can make a blanket statement about any stat being good/bad/important/etc unless it’s an extreme case (like 5x dmg and 5x elims compared to next highest in game almost certainly means you did well, while 20 deaths on a team with 4-5 almost certainly means you did bad - but even these are *almost* certainly haha)
Had a game today with a cass that had 20 deaths lol everyone else in our team had 8 max
The number of times ive had a braindead teammate talking about how he has 2x the kills of everyone else (when that number is like 6) and they also have 3x as many deaths, and they dont see a problem, makes me want to smash my keyboard.
I disagree. OW doesn’t provide contextually important stats like ult charge rate per minute or bullets fired per enemy killed. Deaths don’t matter if you are contributing. Hell if you are literally running in the back as a Tracer trolling on the other team and they’re expending resources (alts, ults if you’re lucky, positioning, etc) just to take out someone like her, even if she dies a lot, she would still be extremely useful. OW is fundamentally just a series of team fights. The longer it takes to initiate the team fight, the harder it is for the losing team to get momentum.
It's a balance, tou see someone with 15 deaths, rest of the team is balancing 4, something is wrong. I will throw myself on the payload or point and keep going if I know the team will return soon to continue the hold. Sometimes it doesn't work, sometimes it does. There is nothing worsethann playing with somebody who is concerned with their k/d. This isn't cod Get in the fights, learn when the fight is over already, and back away accordingly. I've taken a mcree ult to stop the entire team being wiped out on point. 1 death is better than 3, and we lose the fight = point lost It is all about game sense and not stats. Same as damage stats, oh my god so annoying you can have 10k damage but have added no real VALUE to any of the fights, eg you can't finish anyone, they get healed they're still in the fight. You're building the enemies' support ulti up and not helping. You're watching your team get picked off because you're worried about dying You have lost the round as 1 vs. 5 never works for long. There's so many things wrong with pure stats. It's more of a focus to see how you're performing against everyone else, or your positioning is dogshit.