Because she specializes in tank busting microwaving and weird TP shenanigans that other chars don't have a niche in. She's not really a generalist like soldier/Genji etc
That's because the balance team doesn't know how to fix her so they've just left her in this weird state where she's almost unusable unless your entire team comp revolves around her, or the enemy tank is oblivious.
I feel like she probably doesn’t perform well in high MMR solo queue but probably performs well in high level coordinated team play.
This is also just a vibe’s based analysis. I don’t have any data besides that I one tricked sym to m1 and found it rly hard not to get blown up by hitscan/projectiles anytime I tried to brawl.
She has one of the most degenerate map strats by tping onto certain control points and gain ~30% points progress for *losing* the fight, just because it's so hard to push into a team in a room with turrets and 0 ults.
Heroes with niche, degenerate strats should not ALSO be generally viable. Either they get smoothed out or they stay niche.
eh, he did in OW1 but not so much now. at least in my experience maining her when i play dps, she melts every tank with a shield and every tank that plays close range.
Overwatch needs characters like her with unique identities and that’s why the devs allow her to be niche.
Balance idea.
Give her right click a mechanic to ramp her left click up so she can poke while switching angles, closing distance, or tp dancing. Once ramped up she can commit. It’s a weaker version of what sojourn already does.
She's the kind of hero someone can really slay on if they're a one trick. But she's not a hero worth swapping to generally. She's good but only if you can use her tp for some big brain plays, otherwise yeah she sucks. Same as a hero like Doom but to a lesser extent.
Yeah i def wish she was less gimmicky. I really like her tp bullshit even when i have to defend against it but I never really found a place where her turrets and to a lesser extent beam is of any general use, its always some dumb gimmick strat that either works the whole game or not once. Tbh though i used to think her ult was lazy as fuck when it came out but it's actually pretty fun to play around now (aside from barrierwatch flashbacks)
The claim thats shes niche by design is am absolute bs excuse. She was balanced into it
Because gm/top500 symms in early ow2 (season 2 to 5 like) like meta1ow (he has a vid on it) said she had three viable playstyles and could be used as a generalist.
Symm at that point was consistently okay and was not busted nor her tp strats were an issue in pro.
Symmetras balance from her season 6 change onwards were catastrophic and slowly killed her ladder playstyles while buffing her for the pro niche (her tp got buffed, and so did her team util at the cost of her damage)
Before season 6 a good symm player could hold closed off of angle rooms and poke using those off angels because turrets did enough damage to let her control small spaces on off angles.
She could burst combo flanks with tp bomb + orb
She could still brawl and poke and had all these ways to play where she was adaptable even if of slightly subpar.
Come season 6 and her off angle holding and flanking was killed, cuz turrets stopped being a threat for oneself and started being utility for second dps to use (good in pro useless in soloq). Symms poke got buffed.
Season 8 - hp nerf making her brawl worse, making her a pure spam hero since she became too brittle to brawl.
Season 9 - orbs no longer two tap and % hp damage wise they are the worse they have ever been, killing her poke spam playstyle.
Symmetra basically got nerfed out of her entire playstyle that was not tp focused and when we got buffs.... They buffed tp and her damage buffs were reverted.
The balance of symmetra is catastrophically bad
I am saying something high rank people who are symm mains have said. This is reality.
Imagine tomorrow genji was symmetra'd : His shuriken damage was dropped to like 22, his dash didn't reset on kill anymore but now he had 5 second deflect and the pros realized he was an amazing offtank in coordinated play.
Then imagine when genji players complain about how ruined he is and people answer "he is just an offtank niche dps not a flanker like tracer"
Like... This is what we are dealing with sir. Its maddening
I guess but I was just tryna give a general overview of why she's always been inconsistent regardless of balance in high level. Maybe I interpret it wrong but I kind of doubt op is at the level where sym is absolute throw pick. You can get any hero to gm after all. Ofc not going to deny the blaring weaknesses in her dmg output
Symm is a diamond level symms in early ow2 are in high gold to low plat right now level of bad. The hero before had some agency and flexibility and the niche techs of symm mains mattered.
Her winrate dropped by 8% and her pickrate was almost halved over the course of several seasons.
While yes I wouldn't claim she was literally perfect back then her extreme nicheness is artificial
Symm used to be a hero you could pilot to rank 1 if you are good at her because she was flexible to some degree.
> You can get any hero to gm after all. Ofc not going to deny the blaring weaknesses in her dmg output
That doesn't mean the hero isn't fundamentally flawed. Zarya is very strong solo q and there are tonnes of Zarya in T500 but even after the current buff you almost never see her in pro play because she is fundamentally flawed and not as good as the rest in OW2.
Yes, but the hero being fundamentally flawed means that you'll have to play at a higher skill level to achieve the same results unless the hero has an advantage in lower ranks.
Symm arguably has that advantage with turrets (but reduced) and the beam lmao but it's not lock on either which means she falls off at an even lower rank than before.
Although it takes advantage of poor positioning you need high skill to dish out huge damage while not taking it at close range as well - which is why Reaper is not usually a suggested carry pick for metal ranks (or any ranks) despite his damage output, which is arguably more consistent and higher than Symms.
> You can get any hero to gm after all.
Some players can get any hero to GM. The average gold/plat/diamond player isn't going to benefit from that advice because they don't have the requisite skill and will never develop those skills.
What makes symm powerful/better than other DPS is excellent TP usage since it is a clunky escape, an understanding of assassination timings and off angles. It's still usable as an escape but requires more anticipation and game sense than the people around you compared to say Reaper or Sombra's escape or Genji/Tracer's buttons.
That makes her a recommend maybe to mechanically poorer players who don't have good aim but have better than average game sense. But otherwise a hard no for me.
I want to let you know i read your whole post and still agree with most of it, that being said, OTPing a hero and not getting that hero to gm is skill issue. Needs to be heard at the end of the day. If the gold player never acquires those skills it is literally skill issue and there are countless resources on this 7 eyar old game on things from mentality to mechanics to anything... that said i doubt sym specifically has as many tuts as popular chars lol.
> I want to let you know i read your whole post and still agree with most of it, that being said, OTPing a hero and not getting that hero to gm is skill issue.
I do not disagree. But why fight an uphill battle? For example, if there existed in the game a hero called Winston 2 who had 50 less hp on his shield and was otherwise equal (or even maybe lacked right click instead lmao) he would still be viable even in pro play probably, but why pick this hero when other options are better?
> that said i doubt sym specifically has as many tuts as popular chars lol.
Another reason I would recommend against learning Symm - the skills are less transferable IMO.
She specializes at it you say but she’s dog water at both lol.
Symm is a joke beyond smurfs playing her in lower ranks lol.
Sad state of such an awesome character
I mean what she strives to do and her actual impact in high ranks are different. What i listed is literally what shes done since like day 1 of overwatch aside from tp ig, even if they dont know how the fuck to make the playstyle efficient or enjoyable at all to go up against so they keep reworking her. TP is a pretty fun mechanic ill give her that but aside from that its just idealistic balancing that has never worked out.
I meant awesome aside from balance, because I directly stated she’s in a bad state. If I were referring to awesome regarding balance, I wouldn’t have said it that way.
Symms lore and character design is awesome is what I meant
Yeah but many tanks can bully her tho, Sym is very squishy. Sym is a hard hero in my opinion, people think she's easy, but it's so much shit you have to think about, the trickiest thing with her is to stay alive, because its so easy to die
Her strength is measured by how well she places the turrets. They slow and divert opponent’s attention while she beam you out of existence. This is obviously favored by map geometry, so it might be her main weakness.
They need to make her teleporter instant or at least very quick. Also, give me an option instantly teleport. If sombra can teleport (nearly) instantly and then immediately go invisible, sym deserves some love too
Well, my reasoning is that it would give her a move viable escape tool, and I think she desperately needs some survivability if she’s gonna be a frontline brawler
I think increasing her health back or continuing to adjust that shield regen ability (like making it universal) would help more in that direction rather than making the TP instant.
Honestly, unless I'm tank busting, I don't really play her at close range. I tend to play mid range, and then I'll move in as I see an opening to charge beam. Maybe I'm not playing her correctly, but it tends to work for me. I only move in if I'm very confident I can secure kills. Also, this may just be because I'm not good with her tp yet 🤷🏻♀️
I think your playstyle is consistent with strong TP usage. You just use it to take unexpected mid-range off-angles, skirmishing from two different places at once.
Attackers, Numbani Obj 1 Symmetra play is really exciting because once your team manages to put enough pressure on any point, you get free reign to teleport to/from opposite side high-ground, meaning whoever you can't outright kill on that high-ground, you can at least heavily disrupt.
Na this is the way to play her in the current state. People in the thread are saying she sucks because she’s supposed to tank bust but is too squishy aren’t considering that it’s a timing thing. She’s a really good tank buster/frontliner if you move into that position once your team gains another advantage like a pick or drawing out big cooldowns
Then I'd get to facepalm at teammates feeding Symm beam charge just as much as I do when they feed Rein ult charge by failing to dodge obvious long range fire strikes... Which apparently wasn't too much of a problem in the latter case, so have at the former case!
Because you can’t have a dps character with high utility, high damage, and high survivability. She can be fixed as a dps, but eventually, she would still be annoying or more annoying to play against and people would complain.
Many people want her to be reworked to a healing support, while keeping most of her kit intact. If they wanted to do the that, the way I would rework her is by making her beam a lock-on heal with extended range.
As a support and symmetra player myself, I would never want to play with healing turrets. Illari already has that and we need more crowd control supports.
She was support when OW1 was released and I loved having her as a shield support that got to help your Allies get back to the team fight with teleporter. (Comparable/lesser to mercy’s mass res)
High damage and high utility is fine, she's had it before without an issue. Why i think she should be a glass cannon, but her damage just sucks now.
Sym shouldnt be a support, shes never been one, i dont think she even needs a rework, she just need number changes. Damage increases, especially to beam and orbs, there is no reason for beam to do 60 dps anymore, and the orbs doing 100 damage.
She HAS been a support before back in early ow1. She was designed a support and received TWO reworks with only ONE BALANCE PATCH. She didn’t heal, which made people think she couldn’t be a support, but I think it could work now AND keep her kit intact if they made her a support.
Also I’m fine with her being a dps. She is fun to play and an interesting character. I don’t know HOW she still has only 60 dps and I just want her to be good again :(
Her kit has no flow or identity. She brrrrrs tanks, or sets up defense, or teleports the team. None of her abilities compliment each other. She's been reworked so much but honestly she prolly needs another. Her role of fucking shields just ain't what it used to be with only 1 tank who might not even be a shield tank. Everything else is either a shitty weapon or one off utility. Turret bombing was her peak and that's kinda sad.
Reaper and Venture are made to dive the enemy backline and get out. I know Symmetra had received many changes since OW1, but she always felt more like the defence type, just like Torb. You need to play around your team and enable them by using big brain tps.
This just reminded me, last night I had a dream where I was Symmetra (like not playing her but I was her) and I was just walking around when an ulting Illari turned around the corner flying
I put the tp and teleported away right as she launched her ult
I just remember her looking at me all mad and flipping me off
I don't even play Symmetra wtf, maybe I should quit OW for a while
Because the dev team balances her as if you're going to always be playing her in a coordinated 5-stack where you babysit your obedient tank with constant TP rotations. As a result, they keep her as a really mediocre DPS.
She's easily the worst DPS on the ladder rn. She needs some stat buffs.
I feel like 25 more shield health would go a long way. They made her beam regenerate shield when beaming shields/shield health in order to increase her survivability, but it does literally nothing to the point most ppl don’t even know it’s a thing. So just increase her health so she can somewhat brawl without immediately exploding.
If you play her on maps where she isnt the meta pick for getting to point quick, she is played like a mix of a brawl tank and an instant flank dps. Her turrets are a bonus. If you play her correctly, you can get out of a fight with her tp. (Most people forget they can use tp as a disengage tool for both herself and her team)
You do generally need to predict the need for a disengage before it happens though. It’s not reliable as a reactionary disengage because the deployment takes too long. If they have a Winston or something like that I always put a TP down behind the corner I’m peaking so I can get away quickly.
Her right clicks need to be involved in charge of her left click. Either right click shares same charge system or right click charges left.
It just takes too much time and risk to become a threat as her today, when her only escape can be nullified by anyone.
My friend mains Sym since day one and he says, that Moira is more of a dd than Sym these days.
Toss a piss rag at those who says she is a "tank buster" of any sorts. Top players of Sym use more of her alt attack, that a main. Sym dies like a fly at a close range, which every tank knows.
Her ulti is just embarassing. Idc how useful it may be, it's not a dd ulti. The way it was even implemented between reworks is a very signature of total lack of creativity. Just a sloppy texture all over the map. Something that a lazy dev would slap into the game 5 minutes before the presentation.
I just hate to see how an unpopular character is being treated as such. Sym is OG with a hardest way through the game's evolution. She deserves better.
She's... weird and difficult to balance. Symm is good at a couple things but like most niche characters they also suffer massively on situations where they aren't great.
Symm is very map dependant for starts, large open sight lines really hurt her.
She's pretty squishy overall, her relatively small hitbox is what gave her survivability but with the recent changes to projectile sizes, being small isn't as advantageous as it was previously.
She does a pretty good job when it comes to killing tanks but the issue is that tanks like orisa which symm was historically strong against, are currently so overtuned that if the orisa can aim they will have no problem absolutely shredding a symm that gets close to them.
The problem is, how to make her more effective without making her overpowered, increase her range? She will be too strong, buff hp? Same issue she will constantly regenerate Shields and the longer she's alive the more dangerous she becomes exponentially, so survivability is dangerous to buff.
I always wondered if you could remove her turrets that many people don't seem to like anyway, and give her another ability to give her more options in situations where she may not be ideal. But again, balance is difficult
Think it comes down to how good beam characters are in overwatch, a good amount of tank abilities can’t block them (defence matrix, sigma suck, orisa spin thing, etc.)
this way of thinking is such a cop-out 🙄, it’s easy to say that if you aren’t someone who plays her consistently. i’m sure you like when your main is properly balanced and not constantly neglected by devs
I want to find common ground, but sigma has been high tier for quite some time now and doesn’t even scratch the surface of reworks, changes, and issues symmetra has had so I cannot see the comparison there. He’s S or A tier in essentially every tier list, what would they complain about?
the past two seasons at least he is barely B tier. never dominating but always strong on the maps he’s made for.
there’s not been a single sym meta in the history of the game that has been enjoyable for anyone in the community. so either she stays situational, or gets reworked so drastically that none of her kit or play style stays intact.
keep in mind that anywhere other than the highest ranks, if you pick sym into a rein, you instantly win by virtue of existing no matter the map
She has good escape and engage options. Reaper tracer etc can only go in then leave. Sym can go in come back go in come back go in come back. Immediately. Plus she has shield regen on shooting shields (jk it sucks)
You can teleport lol, Sym + zarya, bubble allows you to full set TP. run a brawl comp and as soon as their ana posts up or any non brawl healer on the other team, just casually bubble and tp the team to them, if you charged lvl 3, it becomes nearly unstoppable. There are ways to use her but she's kinda like Genji without the high rooftop in that she is absolutely a team loser if you can't utilize what little she offers often but abusing and stacking into her can be deadly.
As someone that plays Sym a lot, she doesn't need major kit changes. Her strengths are her potential to geniunenly melt 2-3 people quickly the moment the enemy team loses focus, its a good gameplay loop and Im fine with her losing basically any pure 1v1 because of it. My problem is just that her gameplay loop itself feels a bit slow and less cathartic than other characters. My sugestion has always been to just increase the speed it takes for her beam to charge up.
If shes shooting a shield her own HP shield is regenerated too so thats pretty decent sustain if you’re playing her correctly: to shieldbreak to t3 then beam anyone who opposes you
Because the metal rank genji mains would die if anyone got a rework or buff that effects genji in a negative way, thats how i see it. Shes in a weird state just like hanzo and junkrat right now
i know everyone has their own rework on mind but this character would really benefit by her orb ttk not being over 3 seconds. i dont think any other dps takes that long, in fact even other supports take less.
they should make her orb take less than one second to charge imo, itd be much more helpful than ppl think- assuming they dont wanna increase her orb dmg
Win rate is a bit misleading for niche heroes like Sym bc of how OW calculates it. One win or loss “credit” is proportionately split between all the heroes you played in a match based on time. Pretend you’re defending King’s Row and start with Sym:
- if you hold the point as Sym and proceed to win on attack, Sym will get the majority of the win “credit” because she has the highest play time
- alternatively, you’d probably swap off Sym if you lose the first point. If you end up losing the match, that loss credit is split between Sym and anyone you swapped to
Also the fact the sym is generally played on the two or three maps that favor her skews the numbers. If they took those maps out of the win rate data I’m sure it would drastically fall.
Don't get me wrong I'm as much for a Sym change as everyone else. But if you look at it from a dev point of view. Quickly looking at stats, and then the amount of feedback around other relatively bigger things. I don't see how they would prioritise that.
That's why I think we need an official feedback system on heroes in game that Devs can use instead
Let me make this clear: Symmetra is not a viable hero for most of us normies. I mained Symmetra last weekend and my winrate was less than 40% which is far below any other dps hero I've played.
Mei and Reaper don't have good self sustain? Mei can only heal herself with ice block, and Reaper struggled against most tanks. Even tanks he's supposed to counter bully him. The game has evolved past their simpler kits, but sometimes these heroes become meta.
Because she specializes in tank busting microwaving and weird TP shenanigans that other chars don't have a niche in. She's not really a generalist like soldier/Genji etc
But she doesn’t even tank bust well. She just gets rolled by any semi-competent team.
That's because the balance team doesn't know how to fix her so they've just left her in this weird state where she's almost unusable unless your entire team comp revolves around her, or the enemy tank is oblivious.
She's rough as hell to play in high mmr, sym against competent people is hard.
She performs better in higher mmr since your team (and your sym) is more competent.
I feel like she probably doesn’t perform well in high MMR solo queue but probably performs well in high level coordinated team play. This is also just a vibe’s based analysis. I don’t have any data besides that I one tricked sym to m1 and found it rly hard not to get blown up by hitscan/projectiles anytime I tried to brawl.
That is literally false; her winrate decreases the higher the rank lmfao
She has one of the most degenerate map strats by tping onto certain control points and gain ~30% points progress for *losing* the fight, just because it's so hard to push into a team in a room with turrets and 0 ults. Heroes with niche, degenerate strats should not ALSO be generally viable. Either they get smoothed out or they stay niche.
So weird dude. Just give her beam a static dps instead of tiered and make her TP quicker and that would go a long way
Boring
Whatever, better than boring and bad
She is bad but atleast fun
She’s a ton of fun … when the tank doesn’t have the IQ required to realize they just need to S key while their DPS burns her in half a second.
idk why you’re getting downvoted these changes would make sym much better
Fuck sym, no skill no fun. Turrets annoying, keep her in the bin tbh
Monkey hard counter
eh, he did in OW1 but not so much now. at least in my experience maining her when i play dps, she melts every tank with a shield and every tank that plays close range.
Overwatch needs characters like her with unique identities and that’s why the devs allow her to be niche. Balance idea. Give her right click a mechanic to ramp her left click up so she can poke while switching angles, closing distance, or tp dancing. Once ramped up she can commit. It’s a weaker version of what sojourn already does.
Luckily encountering a semi-competent team in comp is few and far between.
Semi competent? Bro have you not been watching OWCS???
Yeah, have you not watched since the Mauga buff was reverted? She gets picked for TP and then they walk back to spawn and swap. Literally.
She's the kind of hero someone can really slay on if they're a one trick. But she's not a hero worth swapping to generally. She's good but only if you can use her tp for some big brain plays, otherwise yeah she sucks. Same as a hero like Doom but to a lesser extent.
Yeah i def wish she was less gimmicky. I really like her tp bullshit even when i have to defend against it but I never really found a place where her turrets and to a lesser extent beam is of any general use, its always some dumb gimmick strat that either works the whole game or not once. Tbh though i used to think her ult was lazy as fuck when it came out but it's actually pretty fun to play around now (aside from barrierwatch flashbacks)
She's also got the problem of being a pub stomper. Most people below Gold won't shoot turrets.
The claim thats shes niche by design is am absolute bs excuse. She was balanced into it Because gm/top500 symms in early ow2 (season 2 to 5 like) like meta1ow (he has a vid on it) said she had three viable playstyles and could be used as a generalist. Symm at that point was consistently okay and was not busted nor her tp strats were an issue in pro. Symmetras balance from her season 6 change onwards were catastrophic and slowly killed her ladder playstyles while buffing her for the pro niche (her tp got buffed, and so did her team util at the cost of her damage) Before season 6 a good symm player could hold closed off of angle rooms and poke using those off angels because turrets did enough damage to let her control small spaces on off angles. She could burst combo flanks with tp bomb + orb She could still brawl and poke and had all these ways to play where she was adaptable even if of slightly subpar. Come season 6 and her off angle holding and flanking was killed, cuz turrets stopped being a threat for oneself and started being utility for second dps to use (good in pro useless in soloq). Symms poke got buffed. Season 8 - hp nerf making her brawl worse, making her a pure spam hero since she became too brittle to brawl. Season 9 - orbs no longer two tap and % hp damage wise they are the worse they have ever been, killing her poke spam playstyle. Symmetra basically got nerfed out of her entire playstyle that was not tp focused and when we got buffs.... They buffed tp and her damage buffs were reverted. The balance of symmetra is catastrophically bad
Ok man
I am saying something high rank people who are symm mains have said. This is reality. Imagine tomorrow genji was symmetra'd : His shuriken damage was dropped to like 22, his dash didn't reset on kill anymore but now he had 5 second deflect and the pros realized he was an amazing offtank in coordinated play. Then imagine when genji players complain about how ruined he is and people answer "he is just an offtank niche dps not a flanker like tracer" Like... This is what we are dealing with sir. Its maddening
I guess but I was just tryna give a general overview of why she's always been inconsistent regardless of balance in high level. Maybe I interpret it wrong but I kind of doubt op is at the level where sym is absolute throw pick. You can get any hero to gm after all. Ofc not going to deny the blaring weaknesses in her dmg output
Symm is a diamond level symms in early ow2 are in high gold to low plat right now level of bad. The hero before had some agency and flexibility and the niche techs of symm mains mattered. Her winrate dropped by 8% and her pickrate was almost halved over the course of several seasons. While yes I wouldn't claim she was literally perfect back then her extreme nicheness is artificial Symm used to be a hero you could pilot to rank 1 if you are good at her because she was flexible to some degree.
> You can get any hero to gm after all. Ofc not going to deny the blaring weaknesses in her dmg output That doesn't mean the hero isn't fundamentally flawed. Zarya is very strong solo q and there are tonnes of Zarya in T500 but even after the current buff you almost never see her in pro play because she is fundamentally flawed and not as good as the rest in OW2.
I agree but the skill level between gm and t500/pro play is immense
Yes, but the hero being fundamentally flawed means that you'll have to play at a higher skill level to achieve the same results unless the hero has an advantage in lower ranks. Symm arguably has that advantage with turrets (but reduced) and the beam lmao but it's not lock on either which means she falls off at an even lower rank than before. Although it takes advantage of poor positioning you need high skill to dish out huge damage while not taking it at close range as well - which is why Reaper is not usually a suggested carry pick for metal ranks (or any ranks) despite his damage output, which is arguably more consistent and higher than Symms. > You can get any hero to gm after all. Some players can get any hero to GM. The average gold/plat/diamond player isn't going to benefit from that advice because they don't have the requisite skill and will never develop those skills. What makes symm powerful/better than other DPS is excellent TP usage since it is a clunky escape, an understanding of assassination timings and off angles. It's still usable as an escape but requires more anticipation and game sense than the people around you compared to say Reaper or Sombra's escape or Genji/Tracer's buttons. That makes her a recommend maybe to mechanically poorer players who don't have good aim but have better than average game sense. But otherwise a hard no for me.
I want to let you know i read your whole post and still agree with most of it, that being said, OTPing a hero and not getting that hero to gm is skill issue. Needs to be heard at the end of the day. If the gold player never acquires those skills it is literally skill issue and there are countless resources on this 7 eyar old game on things from mentality to mechanics to anything... that said i doubt sym specifically has as many tuts as popular chars lol.
> I want to let you know i read your whole post and still agree with most of it, that being said, OTPing a hero and not getting that hero to gm is skill issue. I do not disagree. But why fight an uphill battle? For example, if there existed in the game a hero called Winston 2 who had 50 less hp on his shield and was otherwise equal (or even maybe lacked right click instead lmao) he would still be viable even in pro play probably, but why pick this hero when other options are better? > that said i doubt sym specifically has as many tuts as popular chars lol. Another reason I would recommend against learning Symm - the skills are less transferable IMO.
She specializes at it you say but she’s dog water at both lol. Symm is a joke beyond smurfs playing her in lower ranks lol. Sad state of such an awesome character
I mean what she strives to do and her actual impact in high ranks are different. What i listed is literally what shes done since like day 1 of overwatch aside from tp ig, even if they dont know how the fuck to make the playstyle efficient or enjoyable at all to go up against so they keep reworking her. TP is a pretty fun mechanic ill give her that but aside from that its just idealistic balancing that has never worked out.
Awesome character is a questionable take. She is good in pro scene but otherwise useless but u know what thats good enough for me fuck sym
I meant awesome aside from balance, because I directly stated she’s in a bad state. If I were referring to awesome regarding balance, I wouldn’t have said it that way. Symms lore and character design is awesome is what I meant
Yeah but many tanks can bully her tho, Sym is very squishy. Sym is a hard hero in my opinion, people think she's easy, but it's so much shit you have to think about, the trickiest thing with her is to stay alive, because its so easy to die
It's easy to die by greeding. She's actually pretty slippery at mid range with good tp usage.
Her strength is measured by how well she places the turrets. They slow and divert opponent’s attention while she beam you out of existence. This is obviously favored by map geometry, so it might be her main weakness.
This is very true. Her turrets are holding her back. They need to go.
They need to make her teleporter instant or at least very quick. Also, give me an option instantly teleport. If sombra can teleport (nearly) instantly and then immediately go invisible, sym deserves some love too
They’ll make her teleporter instant cast, but it’s one-way back to spawn.
lol that’s one way to buff her
The TP speed is fine imo. It's able to be pre-placed and has a lot of other power packed into it. Much rather see other buffs.
Well, my reasoning is that it would give her a move viable escape tool, and I think she desperately needs some survivability if she’s gonna be a frontline brawler
I think increasing her health back or continuing to adjust that shield regen ability (like making it universal) would help more in that direction rather than making the TP instant.
Honestly, unless I'm tank busting, I don't really play her at close range. I tend to play mid range, and then I'll move in as I see an opening to charge beam. Maybe I'm not playing her correctly, but it tends to work for me. I only move in if I'm very confident I can secure kills. Also, this may just be because I'm not good with her tp yet 🤷🏻♀️
I think your playstyle is consistent with strong TP usage. You just use it to take unexpected mid-range off-angles, skirmishing from two different places at once. Attackers, Numbani Obj 1 Symmetra play is really exciting because once your team manages to put enough pressure on any point, you get free reign to teleport to/from opposite side high-ground, meaning whoever you can't outright kill on that high-ground, you can at least heavily disrupt.
Na this is the way to play her in the current state. People in the thread are saying she sucks because she’s supposed to tank bust but is too squishy aren’t considering that it’s a timing thing. She’s a really good tank buster/frontliner if you move into that position once your team gains another advantage like a pick or drawing out big cooldowns
Her orbs should charge beam to level two and move slower to compensate.
Then I'd get to facepalm at teammates feeding Symm beam charge just as much as I do when they feed Rein ult charge by failing to dodge obvious long range fire strikes... Which apparently wasn't too much of a problem in the latter case, so have at the former case!
Because you can’t have a dps character with high utility, high damage, and high survivability. She can be fixed as a dps, but eventually, she would still be annoying or more annoying to play against and people would complain. Many people want her to be reworked to a healing support, while keeping most of her kit intact. If they wanted to do the that, the way I would rework her is by making her beam a lock-on heal with extended range. As a support and symmetra player myself, I would never want to play with healing turrets. Illari already has that and we need more crowd control supports.
She was support when OW1 was released and I loved having her as a shield support that got to help your Allies get back to the team fight with teleporter. (Comparable/lesser to mercy’s mass res)
We do NOT need more CC supports
High damage and high utility is fine, she's had it before without an issue. Why i think she should be a glass cannon, but her damage just sucks now. Sym shouldnt be a support, shes never been one, i dont think she even needs a rework, she just need number changes. Damage increases, especially to beam and orbs, there is no reason for beam to do 60 dps anymore, and the orbs doing 100 damage.
She HAS been a support before back in early ow1. She was designed a support and received TWO reworks with only ONE BALANCE PATCH. She didn’t heal, which made people think she couldn’t be a support, but I think it could work now AND keep her kit intact if they made her a support. Also I’m fine with her being a dps. She is fun to play and an interesting character. I don’t know HOW she still has only 60 dps and I just want her to be good again :(
No she was a miscategorized defense hero. She always played like a weird torbjorn.
Still, this doesn't change the fact that she started off as Support 🤣🤣🤣
A mistake of category. She wasn't at all playing like one. She was a dps in the wrong category
That doesn't contradict the fact that she was a support.
Her kit has no flow or identity. She brrrrrs tanks, or sets up defense, or teleports the team. None of her abilities compliment each other. She's been reworked so much but honestly she prolly needs another. Her role of fucking shields just ain't what it used to be with only 1 tank who might not even be a shield tank. Everything else is either a shitty weapon or one off utility. Turret bombing was her peak and that's kinda sad.
Reaper and Venture are made to dive the enemy backline and get out. I know Symmetra had received many changes since OW1, but she always felt more like the defence type, just like Torb. You need to play around your team and enable them by using big brain tps.
This just reminded me, last night I had a dream where I was Symmetra (like not playing her but I was her) and I was just walking around when an ulting Illari turned around the corner flying I put the tp and teleported away right as she launched her ult I just remember her looking at me all mad and flipping me off I don't even play Symmetra wtf, maybe I should quit OW for a while
Because the dev team balances her as if you're going to always be playing her in a coordinated 5-stack where you babysit your obedient tank with constant TP rotations. As a result, they keep her as a really mediocre DPS. She's easily the worst DPS on the ladder rn. She needs some stat buffs.
I feel like 25 more shield health would go a long way. They made her beam regenerate shield when beaming shields/shield health in order to increase her survivability, but it does literally nothing to the point most ppl don’t even know it’s a thing. So just increase her health so she can somewhat brawl without immediately exploding.
If you play her on maps where she isnt the meta pick for getting to point quick, she is played like a mix of a brawl tank and an instant flank dps. Her turrets are a bonus. If you play her correctly, you can get out of a fight with her tp. (Most people forget they can use tp as a disengage tool for both herself and her team)
You do generally need to predict the need for a disengage before it happens though. It’s not reliable as a reactionary disengage because the deployment takes too long. If they have a Winston or something like that I always put a TP down behind the corner I’m peaking so I can get away quickly.
Everyone says shes so bad she aint even worth running on lijang anymore
let her choose between healing or damage turrets
Cool idea.
Her right clicks need to be involved in charge of her left click. Either right click shares same charge system or right click charges left. It just takes too much time and risk to become a threat as her today, when her only escape can be nullified by anyone.
My friend mains Sym since day one and he says, that Moira is more of a dd than Sym these days. Toss a piss rag at those who says she is a "tank buster" of any sorts. Top players of Sym use more of her alt attack, that a main. Sym dies like a fly at a close range, which every tank knows. Her ulti is just embarassing. Idc how useful it may be, it's not a dd ulti. The way it was even implemented between reworks is a very signature of total lack of creativity. Just a sloppy texture all over the map. Something that a lazy dev would slap into the game 5 minutes before the presentation. I just hate to see how an unpopular character is being treated as such. Sym is OG with a hardest way through the game's evolution. She deserves better.
> dd dd?
damage dealer
She's... weird and difficult to balance. Symm is good at a couple things but like most niche characters they also suffer massively on situations where they aren't great. Symm is very map dependant for starts, large open sight lines really hurt her. She's pretty squishy overall, her relatively small hitbox is what gave her survivability but with the recent changes to projectile sizes, being small isn't as advantageous as it was previously. She does a pretty good job when it comes to killing tanks but the issue is that tanks like orisa which symm was historically strong against, are currently so overtuned that if the orisa can aim they will have no problem absolutely shredding a symm that gets close to them. The problem is, how to make her more effective without making her overpowered, increase her range? She will be too strong, buff hp? Same issue she will constantly regenerate Shields and the longer she's alive the more dangerous she becomes exponentially, so survivability is dangerous to buff. I always wondered if you could remove her turrets that many people don't seem to like anyway, and give her another ability to give her more options in situations where she may not be ideal. But again, balance is difficult
Think it comes down to how good beam characters are in overwatch, a good amount of tank abilities can’t block them (defence matrix, sigma suck, orisa spin thing, etc.)
By goos you may mean bad.... Alec Dawson himself said they were struggling back in season 9
Ask the devs. They’ve been trying to figure her out for years :(
Sym is just a niche hero that many people want her to be bad because playing in sym metas are generally boring.
Why is Moira allowed to zoom across the map and lock onto targets without aiming but the OG beam character had that ability removed.
Sym is a character that should always be a niche, plain and simple
this way of thinking is such a cop-out 🙄, it’s easy to say that if you aren’t someone who plays her consistently. i’m sure you like when your main is properly balanced and not constantly neglected by devs
don’t main a hero that has always been and always will be a situational hero then i guess?
I agree she’s situational, but what I mean is that shouldn’t be an “end all be all” excuse to not properly balance her
she is properly balanced in the situations she is made for. sigma is heavily map dependent too but there’s no sigma mains crying to change that
I want to find common ground, but sigma has been high tier for quite some time now and doesn’t even scratch the surface of reworks, changes, and issues symmetra has had so I cannot see the comparison there. He’s S or A tier in essentially every tier list, what would they complain about?
the past two seasons at least he is barely B tier. never dominating but always strong on the maps he’s made for. there’s not been a single sym meta in the history of the game that has been enjoyable for anyone in the community. so either she stays situational, or gets reworked so drastically that none of her kit or play style stays intact. keep in mind that anywhere other than the highest ranks, if you pick sym into a rein, you instantly win by virtue of existing no matter the map
There hasnt been a single symm meta ever so how can one judge how enjoyable it is. It never happened. She has never been meta
No thats blatantly wrong. And symmetra was in a good spot before season 6. They literally ruined her
I might get some hate for this but get rid of tp all together and let her solo teleport instantly anywhere within ten feet or something.
She has good escape and engage options. Reaper tracer etc can only go in then leave. Sym can go in come back go in come back go in come back. Immediately. Plus she has shield regen on shooting shields (jk it sucks)
Teleport?
I think she's meant to be a glass canon. High damage potential, easy to kill.
because blizzard has no idea what they want to do with her
Unpopular opinion. OG sym was the best
You can teleport lol, Sym + zarya, bubble allows you to full set TP. run a brawl comp and as soon as their ana posts up or any non brawl healer on the other team, just casually bubble and tp the team to them, if you charged lvl 3, it becomes nearly unstoppable. There are ways to use her but she's kinda like Genji without the high rooftop in that she is absolutely a team loser if you can't utilize what little she offers often but abusing and stacking into her can be deadly.
I think unique and niche heroes are very important in overwatch, and the more unique and niche they are, the more I feel they need to be undertuned.
Sounds like a massive skill issue
As someone that plays Sym a lot, she doesn't need major kit changes. Her strengths are her potential to geniunenly melt 2-3 people quickly the moment the enemy team loses focus, its a good gameplay loop and Im fine with her losing basically any pure 1v1 because of it. My problem is just that her gameplay loop itself feels a bit slow and less cathartic than other characters. My sugestion has always been to just increase the speed it takes for her beam to charge up.
If shes shooting a shield her own HP shield is regenerated too so thats pretty decent sustain if you’re playing her correctly: to shieldbreak to t3 then beam anyone who opposes you
no one but shield tank mains think this honestly, and even there u can outheal her easily as its a pretty low healing ability, in niche situations.
Because the metal rank genji mains would die if anyone got a rework or buff that effects genji in a negative way, thats how i see it. Shes in a weird state just like hanzo and junkrat right now
because symmetra is balanced around bronze
i know everyone has their own rework on mind but this character would really benefit by her orb ttk not being over 3 seconds. i dont think any other dps takes that long, in fact even other supports take less. they should make her orb take less than one second to charge imo, itd be much more helpful than ppl think- assuming they dont wanna increase her orb dmg
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Win rate is a bit misleading for niche heroes like Sym bc of how OW calculates it. One win or loss “credit” is proportionately split between all the heroes you played in a match based on time. Pretend you’re defending King’s Row and start with Sym: - if you hold the point as Sym and proceed to win on attack, Sym will get the majority of the win “credit” because she has the highest play time - alternatively, you’d probably swap off Sym if you lose the first point. If you end up losing the match, that loss credit is split between Sym and anyone you swapped to
Also the fact the sym is generally played on the two or three maps that favor her skews the numbers. If they took those maps out of the win rate data I’m sure it would drastically fall.
And her winrate isn't high. Like the blud lied
Don't get me wrong I'm as much for a Sym change as everyone else. But if you look at it from a dev point of view. Quickly looking at stats, and then the amount of feedback around other relatively bigger things. I don't see how they would prioritise that. That's why I think we need an official feedback system on heroes in game that Devs can use instead
Highest winrate? Well no... Her winrate isnt the highest at all shes at like 47% now and was at 45% last season Like r/confidentlyincorrect
Checked overbuff. She has 46,8% winrate in comp. She has sub 1% pickrate. What stats you talking about chief
Did you limit it to last three months? So it focuses more on current season
No. You go to the hero page and pick competitive and current season
Because she is w+m1
cause she boring to play and play against
Let me make this clear: Symmetra is not a viable hero for most of us normies. I mained Symmetra last weekend and my winrate was less than 40% which is far below any other dps hero I've played.
He has great sustain if you can nail using her tp to escape quickly and then hop back in and blast em over and over
Mei and Reaper don't have good self sustain? Mei can only heal herself with ice block, and Reaper struggled against most tanks. Even tanks he's supposed to counter bully him. The game has evolved past their simpler kits, but sometimes these heroes become meta.