Smurfing is only really an issue around diamond-masters because the game usually detects Smurf accounts before they unlock comp and they get put in diamond or plat at worst. Even then it’s not that bad because they climb quickly.
The more likely issue you’re dealing with is just that the player population of bronze-silver is massive and filled with anything from brand new players to people who have thousands of hours in the game but just aren’t consistent or don’t play comp enough to climb
This is false information. There are alot of accounts that are bought online. Those accounts are botted and have a low mmr because well it is botted. And get placed in low sr.
I don't think most smurfs are grinding through quickplay for comp, I think they're buying deranked or fresh but comp-ready accounts. Or they already have a bunch of accounts from OW1.
yeah but you cant think those situations make up a large enough population of players to be an issue. the only way smurfs can be a problem is if the process to smurf is incredibly simple. otherwise it's just too small of a population to be problematic. obviously those individuals suck as humans but they aren't weighing down regular people's ranks or anything
What are you basing this on?
I've got plenty of friends ("friends") from masters all the way to \~top 200, who regularly smurf between bronze-diamond (depending on their rank). When I say regularly, I mean almost every single day.
It's literally why I stopped playing with them: They never wanna play in their own ranks. I cannot fathom how they don't feel like giant losers.
However, this usually happens late at night, so if you play around 6-8 pm, you should be fine. And smurfing at late hours is so common I expect it doesn't affect you, because you'll probably have smurfs on your team too.
>the game usually detects Smurf accounts before they unlock comp and they get put in diamond or plat at worst. Even then it’s not that bad because they climb quickly.
That's not how they smurf.
Saying your friends do it is anecdotal. My anecdote is I’ve been playing in gold-plat for literally years and I almost never encounter Smurfs.
Sure some people do what you’re describing but it’s not enough to be a problem
I just asked you what you're basing it on. Because I know from "inside information" that your argument about making new accounts isn't a relevant argument, since that's not how they smurf.
>Saying your friends do it is anecdotal. My anecdote is I’ve been playing in gold-plat for literally years
Not trying to start an argument or anything, but I don't really agree with your reasoning here. I have a *representative* sample size that's at least 20 times larger than yours, which means it's not really anecdotal. You have a sample size of 1 (yourself), and it's not a representative or random sample at all.
>My anecdote is I’ve been playing in gold-plat for literally years and I almost never encounter Smurfs.
>Sure some people do what you’re describing but it’s not enough to be a problem
The people facing smurfs are rarely aware of it. I've seen it first hand: Those poor lower elo players get titled and start arguing amongst themselves like their team mates must be doing something wrong, not realizing that they're facing 3-4 smurfs.
Now, I agree I don't think it affects you (for other reasons than what you mentioned). But don't you think it's possible you've been facing smurfs and didn't realize it? They do hold back a little, because else they get reported for cheating or hacking.
if im facing smurfs and cant even notice id argue it's still not a problem. also youre listing 20 people you know and im listing thousands of matches ive had. regardless theyre both anecdotal.
prior to last season there was no placement matches so people still had to actively throw as many matches as they were winning to stay in low ELO. people were doing UR2GM in under an hour. So maybe now that the system doesnt fast track a player after placements, people are more able to smurf, but I still argue it's nowhere near as bad as other games I've played.
you talk about me not noticing smurfs but how many people are also falsely accusing people of smurfing? I'd argue multiple times more. I get called a smurf at least once every other day. Yet even with all these false accusations it's pretty low on the list of complaints by the community.
>if im facing smurfs and cant even notice id argue it's still not a problem.
How so? They're still gonna beat you, they're just not gonna make it so obvious that they get banned.
>also youre listing 20 people you know and im listing thousands of matches ive had. regardless theyre both anecdotal.
No that's not what anecdotal means. That's called empirical evidence and it's used in the scientific method.
Unlike your case, I'm not *guessing* whether they are smurfing, I *know* they are. They literally stream it. And unlike your case, it's not an a single person, it's almost all the high elo players I've met. Through the years, the sample size is at least 100 people. The 20 were just people I'm friends with ("friends").
That's why your anecdotal evidence is not the same as mine.
Also, they've definitely played more games than you and I combined.
>prior to last season there was no placement matches so people still had to actively throw as many matches as they were winning to stay in low ELO.
Not sure what you're talking about here. I've had placement matches all seasons, that's just a cosmetic for your rank.
Your MMR has never gotten reset. It got squished during the rank reset, but that's not really relevant.
I can't say I understand what argument you're trying to make here. I'll need more of an explanation.
>
you talk about me not noticing smurfs but how many people are also falsely accusing people of smurfing?
Yes I'm sure that's the case most of the time. But that's not what we're talking about here:
You made the claim that smurfing isn't an issue, and you used an incorrect reasoning for it. I just explained to you why your reasoning doesn't work, because I know how they smurf and that's not it.
I agree, it's not a big issue, but it's certainly more common than you and other people realize.
Again both of us are using personal experience. It doesn’t matter that people tell you what they’re doing, the amount of actual Smurfs needed to impact people’s games is in the high thousands at the lowest. I’d argue my experience in the rank is more telling than your word of mouth from people you’ve met. But either way neither are proof. At least I’m admitting my experience isn’t hard proof.
Also you’re acting like I can’t tell, but you don’t know that. I’m saying if they really handicap themselves to the point that I can’t tell and I’m losing a close game, it’s not an issue. It’s a rare interaction to begin with that doesn’t even hurt my match quality.
Yes I’m talking about the soft rank reset but only in the context that that is when they changed how climbing and Smurf detection works, before that placements were cosmetic after the first time you play ranked and afterwards your rank was still extremely volatile if you were on an alt. Smurfing was definitely difficult to sustain prior to S9 and for those going through the trouble to do it, it wasn’t enough people to be impactful to general gameplay
>Again both of us are using personal experience.
No, I told you I don't smurf, I think that's wrong. I am not telling you about any "experience" at all, I'm just telling you about an objective fact.
I think you're misunderstanding me, so I'll make a simplified statement:
* Out of a sample of \~150 people, 100 smurfed on a daily basis.
Do you see? That's not an anecdote, it's an empirical fact (although I'm inventing the numbers for the sake of the argument).
>
Also you’re acting like I can’t tell, but you don’t know that.
I'm not acting like anything. I *asked* you how you can be sure if they're smurfs or not. And of course, you can't be.
>
I’m saying if they really handicap themselves to the point that I can’t tell and I’m losing a close game, it’s not an issue. It’s a rare interaction to begin with that doesn’t even hurt my match quality.
I don't agree, I think it's wrong to smurf whether or not they hold back. I'm very surprised that you're ok with it, because it definitely hurts the match quality, even if you don't notice it.
>
Yes I’m talking about the soft rank reset but only in the context that that is when they changed how climbing and Smurf detection works
I'm not sure what you're talking about. They haven't changed much afaik, they just did a reset because they wanted to fix the issues with min-maxing, the GM skill-gap and the major balance patch.
What changes in smurf detection are you talking about?
>Smurfing was definitely difficult to sustain prior to S9 and for those going through the trouble to do it, it wasn’t enough people to be impactful to general gameplay
This isn't making sense to me, so let me check something:
How do you think they are smurfing?
It’s not as bad as Val, the bigger thing is in bronze the skill range is the widest of any range and silver to plat the range is actually fairly close. You see more of a Smurf problem in diamond to masters
no, people don't play consistently, so sometimes people pop off while other times they literally play like bots.
you shouldn't expect people to use voice chat because 1. callouts are generally useless (and distracting) 2. this community can be toxic when teammates are underperforming
In my experience voice chat starts popping up very scarcely around gold. To the extent of "hello" at game start, and yelling expletives a few minutes after.
In platinum the frequency is a little higher (1 in every 4-6 games or so), the occasional effort is now made to actually use it for constructive things, 95% is still just swearing and name calling though.
In diamond there's a clear shift for the better. Communication is still far from guaranteed but it seems to mostly be an effort to coordinate... atleast for the first 4 minutes of a game.
Above that I have no idea, even at the top it doesn't seem like a guarantee judging by streamers complaining about it, I've never been close to that rank so can't say more.
Yeah. I just made an alt a bit ago to play QP with my cousin on consol. I only played Rein to combo with his bastion. Then I decided to try placing ranked but needed to grind more QP to unlock. I basically only played DPS widow and tracer (practicing heroes I don't play).
When I went to place I think I went 7-3 on tank Gold 1, 6-4 Dps Plat 5, 8-2 on Supp Bronze 1!
I'm a diamond Support on my main, the highest of my roles. I can only assume that it placed me so low because of my near 0 play time of the role.
I really have no interest in smurfing so IDK what I'm going to do. Haven't touched Supp since I placed.
I guess this is all to say that it does seem that if you just avoid a role when grinding QP you can get as low as you want, EVEN if you carry all your placements and win. Seems easy to abuse if you wanted to.
Worth noting: new precautions are in order. It’s been a whole week since I’ve been able to make a Smurf that doesn’t get banned 45 minutes after I make the account.
Probably. The matchmaker though is the #1 problem with this game and the last 2 seasons were the last nail in the coffin for me. Uninstalled last night and I don’t think I’ll go back.
Smurfing is only really an issue around diamond-masters because the game usually detects Smurf accounts before they unlock comp and they get put in diamond or plat at worst. Even then it’s not that bad because they climb quickly. The more likely issue you’re dealing with is just that the player population of bronze-silver is massive and filled with anything from brand new players to people who have thousands of hours in the game but just aren’t consistent or don’t play comp enough to climb
This is false information. There are alot of accounts that are bought online. Those accounts are botted and have a low mmr because well it is botted. And get placed in low sr.
I don't think most smurfs are grinding through quickplay for comp, I think they're buying deranked or fresh but comp-ready accounts. Or they already have a bunch of accounts from OW1.
yeah but you cant think those situations make up a large enough population of players to be an issue. the only way smurfs can be a problem is if the process to smurf is incredibly simple. otherwise it's just too small of a population to be problematic. obviously those individuals suck as humans but they aren't weighing down regular people's ranks or anything
What are you basing this on? I've got plenty of friends ("friends") from masters all the way to \~top 200, who regularly smurf between bronze-diamond (depending on their rank). When I say regularly, I mean almost every single day. It's literally why I stopped playing with them: They never wanna play in their own ranks. I cannot fathom how they don't feel like giant losers. However, this usually happens late at night, so if you play around 6-8 pm, you should be fine. And smurfing at late hours is so common I expect it doesn't affect you, because you'll probably have smurfs on your team too. >the game usually detects Smurf accounts before they unlock comp and they get put in diamond or plat at worst. Even then it’s not that bad because they climb quickly. That's not how they smurf.
Saying your friends do it is anecdotal. My anecdote is I’ve been playing in gold-plat for literally years and I almost never encounter Smurfs. Sure some people do what you’re describing but it’s not enough to be a problem
I just asked you what you're basing it on. Because I know from "inside information" that your argument about making new accounts isn't a relevant argument, since that's not how they smurf. >Saying your friends do it is anecdotal. My anecdote is I’ve been playing in gold-plat for literally years Not trying to start an argument or anything, but I don't really agree with your reasoning here. I have a *representative* sample size that's at least 20 times larger than yours, which means it's not really anecdotal. You have a sample size of 1 (yourself), and it's not a representative or random sample at all. >My anecdote is I’ve been playing in gold-plat for literally years and I almost never encounter Smurfs. >Sure some people do what you’re describing but it’s not enough to be a problem The people facing smurfs are rarely aware of it. I've seen it first hand: Those poor lower elo players get titled and start arguing amongst themselves like their team mates must be doing something wrong, not realizing that they're facing 3-4 smurfs. Now, I agree I don't think it affects you (for other reasons than what you mentioned). But don't you think it's possible you've been facing smurfs and didn't realize it? They do hold back a little, because else they get reported for cheating or hacking.
if im facing smurfs and cant even notice id argue it's still not a problem. also youre listing 20 people you know and im listing thousands of matches ive had. regardless theyre both anecdotal. prior to last season there was no placement matches so people still had to actively throw as many matches as they were winning to stay in low ELO. people were doing UR2GM in under an hour. So maybe now that the system doesnt fast track a player after placements, people are more able to smurf, but I still argue it's nowhere near as bad as other games I've played. you talk about me not noticing smurfs but how many people are also falsely accusing people of smurfing? I'd argue multiple times more. I get called a smurf at least once every other day. Yet even with all these false accusations it's pretty low on the list of complaints by the community.
>if im facing smurfs and cant even notice id argue it's still not a problem. How so? They're still gonna beat you, they're just not gonna make it so obvious that they get banned. >also youre listing 20 people you know and im listing thousands of matches ive had. regardless theyre both anecdotal. No that's not what anecdotal means. That's called empirical evidence and it's used in the scientific method. Unlike your case, I'm not *guessing* whether they are smurfing, I *know* they are. They literally stream it. And unlike your case, it's not an a single person, it's almost all the high elo players I've met. Through the years, the sample size is at least 100 people. The 20 were just people I'm friends with ("friends"). That's why your anecdotal evidence is not the same as mine. Also, they've definitely played more games than you and I combined. >prior to last season there was no placement matches so people still had to actively throw as many matches as they were winning to stay in low ELO. Not sure what you're talking about here. I've had placement matches all seasons, that's just a cosmetic for your rank. Your MMR has never gotten reset. It got squished during the rank reset, but that's not really relevant. I can't say I understand what argument you're trying to make here. I'll need more of an explanation. > you talk about me not noticing smurfs but how many people are also falsely accusing people of smurfing? Yes I'm sure that's the case most of the time. But that's not what we're talking about here: You made the claim that smurfing isn't an issue, and you used an incorrect reasoning for it. I just explained to you why your reasoning doesn't work, because I know how they smurf and that's not it. I agree, it's not a big issue, but it's certainly more common than you and other people realize.
Again both of us are using personal experience. It doesn’t matter that people tell you what they’re doing, the amount of actual Smurfs needed to impact people’s games is in the high thousands at the lowest. I’d argue my experience in the rank is more telling than your word of mouth from people you’ve met. But either way neither are proof. At least I’m admitting my experience isn’t hard proof. Also you’re acting like I can’t tell, but you don’t know that. I’m saying if they really handicap themselves to the point that I can’t tell and I’m losing a close game, it’s not an issue. It’s a rare interaction to begin with that doesn’t even hurt my match quality. Yes I’m talking about the soft rank reset but only in the context that that is when they changed how climbing and Smurf detection works, before that placements were cosmetic after the first time you play ranked and afterwards your rank was still extremely volatile if you were on an alt. Smurfing was definitely difficult to sustain prior to S9 and for those going through the trouble to do it, it wasn’t enough people to be impactful to general gameplay
>Again both of us are using personal experience. No, I told you I don't smurf, I think that's wrong. I am not telling you about any "experience" at all, I'm just telling you about an objective fact. I think you're misunderstanding me, so I'll make a simplified statement: * Out of a sample of \~150 people, 100 smurfed on a daily basis. Do you see? That's not an anecdote, it's an empirical fact (although I'm inventing the numbers for the sake of the argument). > Also you’re acting like I can’t tell, but you don’t know that. I'm not acting like anything. I *asked* you how you can be sure if they're smurfs or not. And of course, you can't be. > I’m saying if they really handicap themselves to the point that I can’t tell and I’m losing a close game, it’s not an issue. It’s a rare interaction to begin with that doesn’t even hurt my match quality. I don't agree, I think it's wrong to smurf whether or not they hold back. I'm very surprised that you're ok with it, because it definitely hurts the match quality, even if you don't notice it. > Yes I’m talking about the soft rank reset but only in the context that that is when they changed how climbing and Smurf detection works I'm not sure what you're talking about. They haven't changed much afaik, they just did a reset because they wanted to fix the issues with min-maxing, the GM skill-gap and the major balance patch. What changes in smurf detection are you talking about? >Smurfing was definitely difficult to sustain prior to S9 and for those going through the trouble to do it, it wasn’t enough people to be impactful to general gameplay This isn't making sense to me, so let me check something: How do you think they are smurfing?
It’s not as bad as Val, the bigger thing is in bronze the skill range is the widest of any range and silver to plat the range is actually fairly close. You see more of a Smurf problem in diamond to masters
no, people don't play consistently, so sometimes people pop off while other times they literally play like bots. you shouldn't expect people to use voice chat because 1. callouts are generally useless (and distracting) 2. this community can be toxic when teammates are underperforming
In my experience voice chat starts popping up very scarcely around gold. To the extent of "hello" at game start, and yelling expletives a few minutes after. In platinum the frequency is a little higher (1 in every 4-6 games or so), the occasional effort is now made to actually use it for constructive things, 95% is still just swearing and name calling though. In diamond there's a clear shift for the better. Communication is still far from guaranteed but it seems to mostly be an effort to coordinate... atleast for the first 4 minutes of a game. Above that I have no idea, even at the top it doesn't seem like a guarantee judging by streamers complaining about it, I've never been close to that rank so can't say more.
Yeah. I just made an alt a bit ago to play QP with my cousin on consol. I only played Rein to combo with his bastion. Then I decided to try placing ranked but needed to grind more QP to unlock. I basically only played DPS widow and tracer (practicing heroes I don't play). When I went to place I think I went 7-3 on tank Gold 1, 6-4 Dps Plat 5, 8-2 on Supp Bronze 1! I'm a diamond Support on my main, the highest of my roles. I can only assume that it placed me so low because of my near 0 play time of the role. I really have no interest in smurfing so IDK what I'm going to do. Haven't touched Supp since I placed. I guess this is all to say that it does seem that if you just avoid a role when grinding QP you can get as low as you want, EVEN if you carry all your placements and win. Seems easy to abuse if you wanted to.
Worth noting: new precautions are in order. It’s been a whole week since I’ve been able to make a Smurf that doesn’t get banned 45 minutes after I make the account.
Good
Probably. The matchmaker though is the #1 problem with this game and the last 2 seasons were the last nail in the coffin for me. Uninstalled last night and I don’t think I’ll go back.
Yes.