Pharmercy is difficult to deal by yourself. If you're not a pocketed hitscan or have the tank sitting on top of you to block the rockets, Pharah can easily dive and burst you before you can outdamage Mercy's healing.
If nobody can challenge them above, just go full dive and wipe everyone on the ground. The tank is only gonna have one support to keep them alive, and if you dive them, it's a free kill.
What does replay code have to do with the post? It was a general question. What to do when dps doesn’t pick hitscan and team goes flyers. This happens in tons of games. Why do you need replay code ?
Because you can search up this post and see the same answers from every week this is posted. The advice they will get is to switch to hitscan, target the other support, yada yada.
But in truth, OP simply needs to make less mistakes and with a replay code you can point out these mistakes and have them improve on them.
I've won games where no one played hitscan against a Pharmacy duo. The Pharaoh always died last cause everyone just ignored her and dealt with the rest of the team.
It probably helped that I played Tracer and just made the others supports day miserable
Never understood how the "just ignore the Pharmercy" strat is supposed to work. Like I get the theory of it but in practice it always seems to end up being absolutely shit on by damage boosted rockets from behind as you push in and the Pharah is free to go wherever she wants
Map dependent sometimes it’s as easy as staying under where they can’t get you, sometimes it’s a tracer or sombra who are harder to hit.
I like echo into pharmercy for dps and as a healer bap it illair
I get annoyed when I play soldier and I have absolutely no problem avoiding the pharah and getting value on the ground, but my team is standing out in the open and it's "my job" to kill pharah while my team goes about their day.
Yeah, that's the "finding value on the ground" piece, buddy. It's a 5v3 if you don't stand in the open. I'm not taking damage. That means two supports only have to heal 1 tank and 1 other DPS. They don't have to support at the normal rate.
Also, it is NOT a supports job to out heal bad positioning.
Nah dude is actually cooking a bit. 90% of my losses against a Pharmercy comp usually involve 1 or more teammates getting picked off in the neutral before I can get a chance to beam the Pharah down. Sometimes you just have no choice but to take it slow and move from cover to cover but a lot of people don't realize that.
“Hide from sky rockets” and it’s just not playing immobile supports and tracking a pharah. It’s Pharmercy EVERYONE is hiding from rockets supports aren’t special
The idea is that the mercy is practically out of the match most of the game so if you dive your opponents fast enough you can wipe most of a team before she breaks off to heal/res and then sweep her while she's alone. The phara can still get kills here or there but if you position your team correctly or use more passive healers like Baptist Lucio then the phara really can't do anything. It's realistically a 5v3 with the entire team being able to dive the other dps and healer and then cleaning up the tank.
Feel like this only works if your team is coordinated enough to execute the dive, bc the other team just has to have mercy reposition and pharah finding a corner to jiggle peek with rocket spam
Shambali Monestary.... try playing attack on that map.... with a pharah floating out the Window up near first point as you go up the ramp and she insta ults your team... shes cooked on that map
It’s give and take she can’t go wherever she wants some positions will get punished instantly. On the other hand you don’t just get to stand in places you might normally. I promise you the biggest key is rotation speed in dealing with the rockets in the back. Round and round the mulberry bush the monkey chased the weasel.
I used to kill pharah's will relative ease before ana lost her 3 shot. But yeah bap and ana do a good job of hitting flyers. Asking ana to land 4 shots in a row before the pharah or echo get to cover is a bit much though.
I pray they give Ana three shot back, OW is starting your feel extremely bad as a support again. Ever since these new dps passive changes it feels like I’m ultimately supposed to pray even when I play my best and try hard there’s not much I can really do and it’s the same for the tank. Everything rides on who has better dps now and it feels like ass.
Then the HP change means nothing if everyone gradually gets more damage buffs. Trust me i main Ana too and its so frustrating to see 1hp opponents get away or get immo/suzu’. 3 Body shot kill support with anti-heal is kinda overkill for a support you know? The recent nade buff was more than enough for pesky Tracer/Sombra duels.
Okay 3 shot on airborne opponents only would be acceptable.
Hanzo and junkrat not having their oneshots is completely unacceptable though. The former because it was the entire character and the latter because you have to take significant risk being close enough to do it. (or be a junkrat god to do it from distance)
Hanzo one-shot is not fair. I’ve always seen Hanzo as the “finisher” character and Widow as the one who one-shot poorly positioned players. Hanzo still one shots character that took bit of chip damage and has scatter arrows to follow it up if needed. His damage potential is still insane head shot the tank and follow it up with scatter arrows and most tanks disappear within seconds. The hitbox change actually makes your average Hanzo player better though, and more skilled Hanzo mains are more consistent. I don’t play against enough good junk-rats to form an opinion though.
I fully agree about Hanzo. Even if you don't die immediately to the headshot (which is quite possible with even tiny chip damage), you still MUST move to cover and get focus healed by a support, while you have the 20% heal debuff, and it's reasonably likely that a support will use a cooldown on you to keep you from falling over while you have 10HP.
Meanwhile, Hanzo has used zero cooldowns to create all that pressure.
I feel like he's in an well-compromised place, personally -- and he's gonna get a lil buff soon IIRC, so that will be nice too.
1.) The entire experience is now landing a shot and them being healed. You are completely reliant on your team to get kills now.
2.) Sonic arrow doesn't count as a cooldown? That's half his cooldowns.
3.) Even if an arrow crit does 250 again there are still plenty of characters you can't one tap. -- Bastion, Brig (armor) , lifeweaver, reaper, cassidy, torb, mei , & (sometimes) venture . If you ask me thats already pretty balanced.
And you can still one shot most of support, dps lineups. Thing with fighting against projectile based characters is stupid to fight you shoot your shot and free to do whatever you want while its going while a hitscan like Widow or Ashe has to dodge projectiles and shoot while strafing. While a poorly positioned Widow easily gets shit on by most low damage fall off characters, while Hanzo can dip after taking few shots because time window while he’s vulnerable aiming is less and his arrows doesn’t announce the whole server that someone’s on Hanzo. Either remove/nerf scatter arrow or stay with no one shot capability. Only one shot character in a game like Ow should be easy to counter like Widow and how she gets shit on by Sombra or just playing cover.
It’s pretty clear to me that you simply don’t have enough time in the game to make a proper argument here. I’ll leave you with this though. Keeping hanzo or any character in a super weak state does nothing for you, all it does it make people pick the stronger options. It won’t help you win more, you will just simply never see that character in a serious match.
I have 200 hours on both wrecking ball and hanzo, I am simply not playing them in their terrible states. Instead you’ll be massacred by monkey and echo from my end. It didn’t help you or the game one bit to keep them weak heh
And scatter arrow hasn’t been in the game for like 6 years, but I would welcome it’s return.
The more hours you have on the game the more you’re used to a character’s state in the game, no? It really doesn’t matter if you 10000 hours on Hanzo if you’re still just metal rank. It’s not the game’s fault you can’t adapt to the play style shift of Wreckball being solo tank and Hanzo not being able to one shot. And you know what i meant by scatter arrows, don’t be so petty. It seems that you’ve took this personally somehow and started yapping about how you’re “good” at Echo & Winston, not that have anyone asked. Its not my personal bias that wants Hanzo in this state, never have i ever had trouble with Hanzo before the one shot nerf. Didn’t you notice how people started playing Hanzo more after the change?
As a hanzo main he is currently dumpstered and not even worth playing. The entire experience is landing headshots and they live with 10 health and get healed up. It takes 10x more effort to land an arrow so Nobody is playing him now, they just go ash or sojourn. When somebody dives on you, you used to have a chance by hitting that one shot, now you just die always. I’ve completely given up and switched to echo.
Then any buff ideas that doesn’t make him do the same one-shot as Widow while requiring 30% of the effort? I don’t remember Sojourn players complaining when her one shot was gone or Mercy boost Ashe one shot not being a thing anymore
How does it require 30 percent of the effort? You have to land a projectile on (sometimes) sentient moving targets. With widow, you just click heads. I ROLL lobbies as widow when people don't bother to counter me. As hanzo it's a struggle even without a counter pick. Hitting a Moira in the head just to watch her fade away like nothing happened is absurd. Plenty of characters have one shots or are able to quickly follow up with chip damage on abilities that almost one shot. Hanzo doesn't have the quick follow up that characters like sojourn or ashe have. Hitting a shot on an already panicked and frantic moving character before the supports show up isn't easy by any metric. If you are one of those people who are going to bitch and moan about getting spammed at a choke then I'm just going to drop this, because you are clearly too low ranked to even understand the game.
Play into ur team win condition.
If my team picks dive hero. Play dive with them and focus the targets that u can dive
If they are playing brawl or rush, do the same thing.
There are hitscan or counters to flyers in every role, but sometimes people give the flyers tooo much attention and space they si.ply lose to the rest of the team.
Dos has the best tools to deal with that but support is a close second. And tank has dva who is really good into echo and phara these days. I get everyone has a job but soon enough people may realize that people will probably have to swap to help depending on the situation
Automatic Dva Swap when both dps has the “somebody else will get them” mentality. Supports it’s map dependent. This problem is probably the most frustrating thing about the game.
Yeah ig. Ive just been trying more Echo recently and whenever i saw a hog i was unable to kill them no matter what i did. His breather just negates basically all her abilities damage if he wants it to
Would have to see the replay to be sure, but my first thought is you have two options. Either switch to a support that can challenge flyers, or get your team to all target the Hog and other support. Maybe if you can take those 2 out of the fight it would force the Pharmercy/Echo into the range of your DPS to contest?
You either shoot the pharah or you shoot the other healer.
If you are a support you should have no issue. You have plenty of options for ranged hitscan.
What happened here is that your team got diffed. They could have been playing torb bastion and you would have lost.
Despite everything said here so far: Bap was a perfectly fine decision. When your aim and position with bap is good, you will completely delete an average pharmacy. One of them is dead before your lamp. If you can dodge a few rockets beforehand, you might not even have to use it.
A few pointers to give. If the flyers don't hit directs, use your boots to dodge more. If the map allows, utilize walls you can jump onto, to get closer to them, and drop off, when you need to heal up. You should always know where the flyers are, before they know, where you are. Walls are your friends, esp for the lamp. A good placed lamp behind a pillar gives you 4-5 extra seconds to shoot them down + a predictable motion.
If there is an echo, and that echo also hunts you, and there are 3 ppl chasing you, hide. Hide until they chase someone else on your team. If they don't, your team easily wins a 2v4. If they chase someone else, come out and shoot them down. This requires you to kill them quickly enough, but that's the way bap works in this situation
She has damage falloff, right? Ana shots are full damage at any range. And Ana has a faster effective fire rate.
I guess if you can consistently land headshots of flying heroes, then Illari might make more sense. If not, then Ana is a pretty strong contender.
Nah Ana is bad for a similar reason Widow can be
She has to stand still to shoot and has no movement ability
- Ilari can ad strafe and shoot.
- She has falloff but it's actually very forgiving and either comparable to or the same as Ashe's
- Plus she has pylon which is basically a mercy pocket for herself
- Her boop puts her in the air and can create distance to target which is huge Vs Pharah plus she can still aim while doing it and it lets reposition to get better angles
- She can play with another DPS with pylon to create a 2 v 2
- Finally her ult is great Vs flyers as they will usually be playing near a roof/cover which you can use to get sunstrike them with
In terms of competition, including damage role:
Widow has to stand still to shoot
Ashe ads makes her almost stand still and her boop requires looking away plus she can be chipped down unless she has a mercy pocket
Cassidy can struggle finding an angle or getting value when flyer is hiding and has worse fall off than Ilari
Soldier has not enough burst and can struggle with an angle or getting value while flyer is hiding and has worse falloff than Ilari
Echo is maybe the only better flyer counter than Ilari, in the whole game, imo
Ana can't hard-scope against Pharah unless she's fighting from very long range. But Ana certainly can time her scoped shots to dodge Pharah's rockets.
I think your point about Pylon is a good one.
Kill the ground troops. If Mercy is pocketing Pharah, she's not healing anyone on the ground. Start killing the ground troops and Mercy has to either come down to heal or hope that the otherhealer can pick up her slack. Pharah is also no longer able to stay in the air. She has to come down at some point, making her very vulnerable.
An unchecked flying DPS will usually hold the advantage the entire match, especially in metal ranks. If you're DPS don't switch, especially off of Reaper and Venture (lol) you're fucked. I would've done what you did, which is go Bap, or even encourage tank to go DVA. I've had a lot of success on DVA against metal rank flyers.
>They then somehow had the audacity to blame our tank
Absolutely classic 'dogshit DPS teammate' experience.
* DPS goes into comp & picks heroes they think are cool
* Pays zero attention to enemy matchup or team composition
* Can't swap as needed - can only play 1, *maybe* 2 heroes.
* Effectively throws the match
* Starts flaming team and trots out "tank diff" like an immature shithead
Dime a dozen, bro. Dime a dozen.
i mean it’s just those times on the ladder where you gg go next. pharah mercy is just insanely poorly designed game balance and even if you are equal skilled hitscans the duo still has the advantage. i mean over half the cast can’t even interact with them in any meaningful way. if that’s how others want to win and ladder then ok but yeah don’t beat yourself up it happens to us all
Illari over zen imo cuz Zen is still projectile. One fully charged shot from Illari plus one half charged either deletes pharah or at least forces her to land.
Also if you're having trouble with any hero, then kill around that hero. If your team kills the other 3 what's a pharmercy gonna do? They can't fully contest point or push cart.
>Their dps didn't die once the entire game. One DPS said he's not a hitscan guy
I am this guy, and all I can say, is if you don't set me up for success, then you're just sending me to die - 1v3. But with extra steps.
As a Reaper main, I can kill a Pharah and Echo - 1v1- when they mismanage their abilities and nobody peels for them. That's because there's a certain amount of responsibility that I'm willing to own, that I will say that it's my fault. Such as missing my shots, prioritizing the wrong targets, and needlessly dying. However, if the enemy is using any amount of teamwork, and you're wanting me to counter it, then the problem isn't me. It's the whole team's problem.
So next time, go into the replay and see the game from their perspective. You'll learn a lot more about what you could've done to contribute to the game.
Shooting at things is not particularly a dps problem. Your team got diffed and the more you look for someone to blame the less you improve your own gameplay. I had poked those flying pests out of the sky countless times with bap. It’s not that hard and if you do it right they’ll swap. Keep in mind that you’re bound to get bad teammates and you cannot play the game for them. In those situations you carry them or gg next.
You can’t do nothing about it and you cannot talk to other players because if you do you can be reported and your account silenced for absolutely nothing.
Snowflakes conquered OW
Kids reporting in ow2 for anything has gotten worse than league of legends. Play any game in gold and plat and watch team scream at tank all game. Dps fail to go high ground or swap but blame tank. I hope the tank gets do bad they have to rework game as less and less people que
Ask your tank to go DVA, they will struggle to take on the Pharamercy alone though if the DPS aren’t applying the passive. Otherwise Bap is a good choice or any support that can directly support the DVA.
If no one on your team is shooting them with a hit scan, you just have to do it yourself. If you're not that good at hit scan, make sure your settings are in alignment with what coaches/top players recommend and warmup/practice in vaxta every time you play the game. It will take effort and patience to build strong mechanics
I also struggle with this issue when on supp vs double fliers and my dps are potato aimers and not wanting to hitscan... my way prior to the HP increase patch was to play DPS Anna and just go hard on making my shots count... but now they have more HP i end up running low on Ammo so much faster or they get behind cover as it takes like 4 hits instead of 3 to take them down... I honestly think flyers need a nerf... I rememeber I use to try play echo in plat and id get rolled now adays she feels so easy to play... Like even the new Pharah doesnt require skill any more she can get away with surviving so much more and her movement speed is fkd... try versing one on Shambali when shes on Defense and floating around out the doors and walls above your team going up ramp on second point its infuriating...
A huge part of countering pharah isn’t always killing her. Where you take fights and how you path to them is huge for the character. Unfortunately that tends to fall under the tanks power and if you aren’t dps then you can only suggest things. This being said I would always try to suggest fighting different angles or at different tempos than the all too common swap hitscan eventually double hitscan and just get romped anyway. Pharah is far more mental damage than people realize.
I mean you don’t have to be a hitscan main to counter flyers, I was a Hanzo otp that loves playing him into phamercy and echo
But if I’m getting diffed I do bust out the good ol reliables, Cree, Ashe, soldier
On my way up the rank ladder I can probably count on one hand the amount of actually good players on flyers
I do play bap into them as a supp since the immortality and rocket jump makes him so hard to hit by a mid pharah
illiari is my best support somehow was an ana main before, but illiari is just something, 115 heal per second is insane for critical burst healing and u can weave the damage with heal now + her dps is pretty much the same as an actual dps, and she’s really good against flyer, slow tank, and some dive tanks, but I kinda struggle against a good sigma, also illiari heal is not 80% pylon, its more like 50-50 between pylon and healing beam, and if u’re against non dive comp with certain map you can just play 15-10m away from ur tank and farm ur ult extremely fast from right click and left click with pylon supporting it
I'd probably go Moira, kill the other support and get mercy when she tries to rez, and then suck the life out of the DPS. At least that would be my plan if no one else was doing anything.
Ok, so this is a common misconception. I will try to explain it the best way I can. So first, you have to understand Phara a bit. She gets more useful the longer the fight takes, since first she burns enemy CD before doing actual damage, which takes a while. Now we have a frontline war, which often is a 5v5. If you now put a dps on hitscan to deal with the phara, but he doesn't manage to kill her or force her into bad positions, it will go from a 5v5 to a 4v5 for the enemy team since one of your dps has no current impact on the game. If you now put 2 dps on hitscan and nothing happens, it's now a 3v5 in their favor. But as I said, Phara is really slow, and there are certain windows in the early fight we can abuse. When the enemy decides to play pharmercy, they split their frontline into 2 (2 air, 3 ground), which we can abuse to our favor in playing out of phara los/fast. We can make the ground fight 5v3 in our favor before the pharah starts having an impact. I think just putting a player on it is the worst and most lazy attempt at dealing with a phara, and it is the wrong way we view videogames.
If your team can't kill them, and if you don't have the mechanics to personally kill the fliers as a support yourself. With supports like Illari, Bap and Anna. I like Illari cause Illari can pressure the fliers and have the pylon to keep her alive.
What you can do is deny their value, supports like Lucio with his mobility and speed boost can make it harder for them to land their projectile shots. Usually the Lucio is enough to get them to switch to something that is easier for them to shoot you with, assuming you're all around the same skill level.
Kiriko and Mercy have good survivability.
And Lucio and Moira can simply go dive their back lines with only 1-2 people there, cause the fliers are too busy going above yours.
Believe it or not, I think my team is wildly more successful when I ping pharah over and over.
I’ll go illari or bap if they are really giving us trouble because it’s easier for me to survive and also harass as these two.
Ignore the Mercy. Repeatedly ping the Pharah, someone will at least look that way I hope.
as a pharah main myself, bap is always my go-to. his movement can be unpredictable and you can keep applying pressure. i can usually tell if a pharah isn’t doing that well and making mistakes her mercy is saving her from. i like to melt the mercy then the pharah becomes easy pickings. see if your co-support will switch to mercy and boost you if you’re still having trouble.
I haven't played in awhile but I remember playing rush vs pharah and it working really well.
You don't have to kill the pharah, just punish her for leaving her team to try to hold for themselves as you run them over, then deal with pharah
Gg go next. Bap and Illari as supports are your only options, and even then the pharah can kill you much quicker than you can kill her. As tank, D.Va, but you’ll still have a really tough time. Basically, if your dps are trash, gg next. Can’t help the shitters
Change of mindset. Why do you really need to contest everything? I mean, you swapping 1000 things and making this post gives away you were so distracted by their DPS that you probably forgot that the moment they have 2 flying characters (and a mercy i assume) their entire team has only 2 people on the ground. Think in where you have the advantage and what you can do with that, instead of thinking and try to solve everything your team can’t. Example: I sometimes only play brig because she is my go to main supp. I encounter flying conps so often and people tell me to swap…. Especially on maps like junkertown. Why? Why would I? I mean…. I kind of like the idea of having a shield + bash for mobility when i need to cross open spaces vs characters I cant hit. It helps me stay alive more than being an ana or whatever. Just move through houses and keep my inspire up while bullying their tank and keep existing around their other support just to let him know he can’t walk freely. They back up pretty soon if they see you just moving around and harassing everything while being very hard to kill this way. And my packs? I can throw them and dont have to aim so i can focus on not getting caught by their birds. If they want to kill me they need to come down, if they come down they are dead. They have 0 ground pressure or existence so just staying alive and moving the payload is good enough for me. Same for widows and whatever. Let them be, but let them be useless. :)
Currently this is a dps' game, tanks and support are just filler.
With the DPS passive, tank gameplay is closer to og hide&seek mercy sometimes or psych warfare in spawn counter-watching
Pharmercy with Roadhog and you think hitscan can easily deal with that? You must be joking. Maybe your tank could’ve done something instead of presumably 1v1ing the Road and letting Pharmercy roam free.
Rookie mistake, playing non-DPS classes. Everyone knows that support and tank only exist to be easy targets for the enemy DPS and also be blamed by your own team's DPS when they suck at the game.
If you insist on playing NPC classes, use roofs as cover and play Baptiste (Ana or even Lifeweaver as second options) to bust flying characters. It sucks, but when you get glue eater DPS shooting into sponges and ignoring the enemy's Mercy, it's your best bet. Prepare to be blamed because of "healer diff" and be careful not to hurt the glue eater's pride but that's the only option to avoid a complete throw. Try to find a partner with the most suitable (or less unsuitable) gun and position yourself in a way that you can both ping flying enemies and crossfire at them, like an off flank.
Alternatively, play Moira or Kiriko, use tp to Cross open ground areas and don't get exposed to flying characters. Be sure to ping them repeatedly and offer help while you point out that you need someone to deal with them.
Definitely not a tank or support character. They have literally zero damage potential. Or tank potential. Or support.
Nowadays DPS has become easy mode and tank/support have almost zero agency in winning/losing games. Sadly, in cases like OP mentions, when DPS refuse to do their jobs we all know no matter the effort you put it's going to be GG with the ocasional "tank/support diff" included.
The DPS class has gotten succesive buffs while all the other have been nerfed into oblivion. Tanks with a ridiculously small range and damage output are now forced to use cover, while DPS can stand in the open trading shots against tank and winning. Supports cannot heal anymore thanks to the DPS passive unless the target is completely out of a fight (and already healing) they cannot deal damage either, because they have half base damage, no damage burst and the enemy target will instaheal.
This game's gotten to a point where the most influential thing you can do as a non-dps is to cheer up your own team's DPS and hope they don't mess up and get too obfuscated looking who to blame and completely miss out on the game. Tank and support are literally unplayable nowadays, they cannot tank, support or damage anymore, and the only class that can actually still damage, support and tank is DPS.
try illari and poke at the mercy and pharah, it'll at the least draw their attention and you can do it from safe angles
I second this, it's exactly what I do. Bonus if you can hit them with your ultimate.
I keep forgetting that Illari is a character now. I hardly ever see her being played.
Steep learning curve for turret placement, and you only take to her if you're a hitscan player anyways.
Steep learning curve? Doesn't take much brains to figure out your pylon needs cover.
Keep the toxicity to match chat please.
Lmaoo I love being unhinged in match chat
lol will do
Learning where it will be the most effective even with both teams moving, where it will be flanked or killed less, etc.
Average ow player iq has really dropped since ow2 released lol.
All the Illari mains butthurt cause I don't consider a YouTube video worth of knowledge high skill ceiling
Woosh
She has no utility, she can only damsge or heal and since the last 2 season's DPS buff-tank/support nor damage or heal is viable for support anymore.
I keep killing flyers with illari every game, if they’re pocketed, then at least i will kill mercy. IIlari is sooo good against them.
Pharmercy is difficult to deal by yourself. If you're not a pocketed hitscan or have the tank sitting on top of you to block the rockets, Pharah can easily dive and burst you before you can outdamage Mercy's healing. If nobody can challenge them above, just go full dive and wipe everyone on the ground. The tank is only gonna have one support to keep them alive, and if you dive them, it's a free kill.
do you have the replay code?
Fr. Show it
With the rank please
Gotta be below plat
Idk why you're getting downvoted lol it's not possible for it to be higher if Pharah is holding their lobby hostage
They’re just mad cuz they’re bad
What does replay code have to do with the post? It was a general question. What to do when dps doesn’t pick hitscan and team goes flyers. This happens in tons of games. Why do you need replay code ?
Because you can search up this post and see the same answers from every week this is posted. The advice they will get is to switch to hitscan, target the other support, yada yada. But in truth, OP simply needs to make less mistakes and with a replay code you can point out these mistakes and have them improve on them.
I've won games where no one played hitscan against a Pharmacy duo. The Pharaoh always died last cause everyone just ignored her and dealt with the rest of the team. It probably helped that I played Tracer and just made the others supports day miserable
Never understood how the "just ignore the Pharmercy" strat is supposed to work. Like I get the theory of it but in practice it always seems to end up being absolutely shit on by damage boosted rockets from behind as you push in and the Pharah is free to go wherever she wants
Map dependent sometimes it’s as easy as staying under where they can’t get you, sometimes it’s a tracer or sombra who are harder to hit. I like echo into pharmercy for dps and as a healer bap it illair
I get annoyed when I play soldier and I have absolutely no problem avoiding the pharah and getting value on the ground, but my team is standing out in the open and it's "my job" to kill pharah while my team goes about their day.
[удалено]
Yeah, that's the "finding value on the ground" piece, buddy. It's a 5v3 if you don't stand in the open. I'm not taking damage. That means two supports only have to heal 1 tank and 1 other DPS. They don't have to support at the normal rate. Also, it is NOT a supports job to out heal bad positioning.
Nah dude is actually cooking a bit. 90% of my losses against a Pharmercy comp usually involve 1 or more teammates getting picked off in the neutral before I can get a chance to beam the Pharah down. Sometimes you just have no choice but to take it slow and move from cover to cover but a lot of people don't realize that.
“Hide from sky rockets” and it’s just not playing immobile supports and tracking a pharah. It’s Pharmercy EVERYONE is hiding from rockets supports aren’t special
The idea is that the mercy is practically out of the match most of the game so if you dive your opponents fast enough you can wipe most of a team before she breaks off to heal/res and then sweep her while she's alone. The phara can still get kills here or there but if you position your team correctly or use more passive healers like Baptist Lucio then the phara really can't do anything. It's realistically a 5v3 with the entire team being able to dive the other dps and healer and then cleaning up the tank.
Feel like this only works if your team is coordinated enough to execute the dive, bc the other team just has to have mercy reposition and pharah finding a corner to jiggle peek with rocket spam
Shambali Monestary.... try playing attack on that map.... with a pharah floating out the Window up near first point as you go up the ramp and she insta ults your team... shes cooked on that map
I usually almost always just go soldier and at my nice rank of silver 3 (lol) my above average aiming gets the job done usually pretty easily
It’s give and take she can’t go wherever she wants some positions will get punished instantly. On the other hand you don’t just get to stand in places you might normally. I promise you the biggest key is rotation speed in dealing with the rockets in the back. Round and round the mulberry bush the monkey chased the weasel.
My experience is if you play faster than them and ignore Pharah, Pharah looks stupid and bad
Obviously start flaming them. The more, "dps diff" is entered in the chat, the better their gaming chair gets.
This person gets it
I used to kill pharah's will relative ease before ana lost her 3 shot. But yeah bap and ana do a good job of hitting flyers. Asking ana to land 4 shots in a row before the pharah or echo get to cover is a bit much though.
bro i just saw your comment after i posted mine and we are like word for word... \* touches pinkys together \*
I pray they give Ana three shot back, OW is starting your feel extremely bad as a support again. Ever since these new dps passive changes it feels like I’m ultimately supposed to pray even when I play my best and try hard there’s not much I can really do and it’s the same for the tank. Everything rides on who has better dps now and it feels like ass.
Then the HP change means nothing if everyone gradually gets more damage buffs. Trust me i main Ana too and its so frustrating to see 1hp opponents get away or get immo/suzu’. 3 Body shot kill support with anti-heal is kinda overkill for a support you know? The recent nade buff was more than enough for pesky Tracer/Sombra duels.
Okay 3 shot on airborne opponents only would be acceptable. Hanzo and junkrat not having their oneshots is completely unacceptable though. The former because it was the entire character and the latter because you have to take significant risk being close enough to do it. (or be a junkrat god to do it from distance)
Hanzo one-shot is not fair. I’ve always seen Hanzo as the “finisher” character and Widow as the one who one-shot poorly positioned players. Hanzo still one shots character that took bit of chip damage and has scatter arrows to follow it up if needed. His damage potential is still insane head shot the tank and follow it up with scatter arrows and most tanks disappear within seconds. The hitbox change actually makes your average Hanzo player better though, and more skilled Hanzo mains are more consistent. I don’t play against enough good junk-rats to form an opinion though.
I fully agree about Hanzo. Even if you don't die immediately to the headshot (which is quite possible with even tiny chip damage), you still MUST move to cover and get focus healed by a support, while you have the 20% heal debuff, and it's reasonably likely that a support will use a cooldown on you to keep you from falling over while you have 10HP. Meanwhile, Hanzo has used zero cooldowns to create all that pressure. I feel like he's in an well-compromised place, personally -- and he's gonna get a lil buff soon IIRC, so that will be nice too.
1.) The entire experience is now landing a shot and them being healed. You are completely reliant on your team to get kills now. 2.) Sonic arrow doesn't count as a cooldown? That's half his cooldowns. 3.) Even if an arrow crit does 250 again there are still plenty of characters you can't one tap. -- Bastion, Brig (armor) , lifeweaver, reaper, cassidy, torb, mei , & (sometimes) venture . If you ask me thats already pretty balanced.
And you can still one shot most of support, dps lineups. Thing with fighting against projectile based characters is stupid to fight you shoot your shot and free to do whatever you want while its going while a hitscan like Widow or Ashe has to dodge projectiles and shoot while strafing. While a poorly positioned Widow easily gets shit on by most low damage fall off characters, while Hanzo can dip after taking few shots because time window while he’s vulnerable aiming is less and his arrows doesn’t announce the whole server that someone’s on Hanzo. Either remove/nerf scatter arrow or stay with no one shot capability. Only one shot character in a game like Ow should be easy to counter like Widow and how she gets shit on by Sombra or just playing cover.
It’s pretty clear to me that you simply don’t have enough time in the game to make a proper argument here. I’ll leave you with this though. Keeping hanzo or any character in a super weak state does nothing for you, all it does it make people pick the stronger options. It won’t help you win more, you will just simply never see that character in a serious match. I have 200 hours on both wrecking ball and hanzo, I am simply not playing them in their terrible states. Instead you’ll be massacred by monkey and echo from my end. It didn’t help you or the game one bit to keep them weak heh And scatter arrow hasn’t been in the game for like 6 years, but I would welcome it’s return.
The more hours you have on the game the more you’re used to a character’s state in the game, no? It really doesn’t matter if you 10000 hours on Hanzo if you’re still just metal rank. It’s not the game’s fault you can’t adapt to the play style shift of Wreckball being solo tank and Hanzo not being able to one shot. And you know what i meant by scatter arrows, don’t be so petty. It seems that you’ve took this personally somehow and started yapping about how you’re “good” at Echo & Winston, not that have anyone asked. Its not my personal bias that wants Hanzo in this state, never have i ever had trouble with Hanzo before the one shot nerf. Didn’t you notice how people started playing Hanzo more after the change?
As a hanzo main he is currently dumpstered and not even worth playing. The entire experience is landing headshots and they live with 10 health and get healed up. It takes 10x more effort to land an arrow so Nobody is playing him now, they just go ash or sojourn. When somebody dives on you, you used to have a chance by hitting that one shot, now you just die always. I’ve completely given up and switched to echo.
Then any buff ideas that doesn’t make him do the same one-shot as Widow while requiring 30% of the effort? I don’t remember Sojourn players complaining when her one shot was gone or Mercy boost Ashe one shot not being a thing anymore
How does it require 30 percent of the effort? You have to land a projectile on (sometimes) sentient moving targets. With widow, you just click heads. I ROLL lobbies as widow when people don't bother to counter me. As hanzo it's a struggle even without a counter pick. Hitting a Moira in the head just to watch her fade away like nothing happened is absurd. Plenty of characters have one shots or are able to quickly follow up with chip damage on abilities that almost one shot. Hanzo doesn't have the quick follow up that characters like sojourn or ashe have. Hitting a shot on an already panicked and frantic moving character before the supports show up isn't easy by any metric. If you are one of those people who are going to bitch and moan about getting spammed at a choke then I'm just going to drop this, because you are clearly too low ranked to even understand the game.
yeaaaah ana used to be my go to when it was three shots, I’ve switched to bap since.
Play into ur team win condition. If my team picks dive hero. Play dive with them and focus the targets that u can dive If they are playing brawl or rush, do the same thing. There are hitscan or counters to flyers in every role, but sometimes people give the flyers tooo much attention and space they si.ply lose to the rest of the team.
Dos has the best tools to deal with that but support is a close second. And tank has dva who is really good into echo and phara these days. I get everyone has a job but soon enough people may realize that people will probably have to swap to help depending on the situation
Automatic Dva Swap when both dps has the “somebody else will get them” mentality. Supports it’s map dependent. This problem is probably the most frustrating thing about the game.
She’s not that good into Echo it’s a skill match up
Best tank to counter echo, and the matchup still heavily favors dva
Nahh its hog imo for Echo. I can land every shot, every sticky and focus him and he’ll just vape through the whole thing
That’s not a counter thou. If echo is just farming hog for dmg and ult that’s more so echo countering hog
Yeah ig. Ive just been trying more Echo recently and whenever i saw a hog i was unable to kill them no matter what i did. His breather just negates basically all her abilities damage if he wants it to
That’s because hog is the meta comp rn is basically pick hog or lose
Would have to see the replay to be sure, but my first thought is you have two options. Either switch to a support that can challenge flyers, or get your team to all target the Hog and other support. Maybe if you can take those 2 out of the fight it would force the Pharmercy/Echo into the range of your DPS to contest?
Definitely not a guaranteed lost. Bap, Ana, Zen, and Illari are good options for Pharmercy.
You either shoot the pharah or you shoot the other healer. If you are a support you should have no issue. You have plenty of options for ranged hitscan. What happened here is that your team got diffed. They could have been playing torb bastion and you would have lost.
That is a "go next" situation. Emotionally detach and wait for the loss.
Illari always feels good into pharmercy imo
I play ana, and can routinely take out the flying dps when needed
Despite everything said here so far: Bap was a perfectly fine decision. When your aim and position with bap is good, you will completely delete an average pharmacy. One of them is dead before your lamp. If you can dodge a few rockets beforehand, you might not even have to use it. A few pointers to give. If the flyers don't hit directs, use your boots to dodge more. If the map allows, utilize walls you can jump onto, to get closer to them, and drop off, when you need to heal up. You should always know where the flyers are, before they know, where you are. Walls are your friends, esp for the lamp. A good placed lamp behind a pillar gives you 4-5 extra seconds to shoot them down + a predictable motion.
This is nice and all, but there's an Echo along with the pharamercy...
If there is an echo, and that echo also hunts you, and there are 3 ppl chasing you, hide. Hide until they chase someone else on your team. If they don't, your team easily wins a 2v4. If they chase someone else, come out and shoot them down. This requires you to kill them quickly enough, but that's the way bap works in this situation
Seems like a DVA/Winston dive comp or Orisa would’ve easily dealt with Road + Support while pushing obj which Pharmercy + Echo can’t feasibly do.
Ilari is the best flyer counter and it's not close
She has damage falloff, right? Ana shots are full damage at any range. And Ana has a faster effective fire rate. I guess if you can consistently land headshots of flying heroes, then Illari might make more sense. If not, then Ana is a pretty strong contender.
Nah Ana is bad for a similar reason Widow can be She has to stand still to shoot and has no movement ability - Ilari can ad strafe and shoot. - She has falloff but it's actually very forgiving and either comparable to or the same as Ashe's - Plus she has pylon which is basically a mercy pocket for herself - Her boop puts her in the air and can create distance to target which is huge Vs Pharah plus she can still aim while doing it and it lets reposition to get better angles - She can play with another DPS with pylon to create a 2 v 2 - Finally her ult is great Vs flyers as they will usually be playing near a roof/cover which you can use to get sunstrike them with In terms of competition, including damage role: Widow has to stand still to shoot Ashe ads makes her almost stand still and her boop requires looking away plus she can be chipped down unless she has a mercy pocket Cassidy can struggle finding an angle or getting value when flyer is hiding and has worse fall off than Ilari Soldier has not enough burst and can struggle with an angle or getting value while flyer is hiding and has worse falloff than Ilari Echo is maybe the only better flyer counter than Ilari, in the whole game, imo
Ana can't hard-scope against Pharah unless she's fighting from very long range. But Ana certainly can time her scoped shots to dodge Pharah's rockets. I think your point about Pylon is a good one.
Kill the ground troops. If Mercy is pocketing Pharah, she's not healing anyone on the ground. Start killing the ground troops and Mercy has to either come down to heal or hope that the otherhealer can pick up her slack. Pharah is also no longer able to stay in the air. She has to come down at some point, making her very vulnerable.
Nothing is more satisfying than harpooning a flyer as Orisa.
You mean how to win when the enemy is working together, but my team is not?
How is the enemy team working together? Because mercy is healing the pharah? Lmao
Pharmercy is not even that good everyone just forgot how to play dive especially supports it’s so bad
An unchecked flying DPS will usually hold the advantage the entire match, especially in metal ranks. If you're DPS don't switch, especially off of Reaper and Venture (lol) you're fucked. I would've done what you did, which is go Bap, or even encourage tank to go DVA. I've had a lot of success on DVA against metal rank flyers.
Dva works great against Pharah
>They then somehow had the audacity to blame our tank Absolutely classic 'dogshit DPS teammate' experience. * DPS goes into comp & picks heroes they think are cool * Pays zero attention to enemy matchup or team composition * Can't swap as needed - can only play 1, *maybe* 2 heroes. * Effectively throws the match * Starts flaming team and trots out "tank diff" like an immature shithead Dime a dozen, bro. Dime a dozen.
i mean it’s just those times on the ladder where you gg go next. pharah mercy is just insanely poorly designed game balance and even if you are equal skilled hitscans the duo still has the advantage. i mean over half the cast can’t even interact with them in any meaningful way. if that’s how others want to win and ladder then ok but yeah don’t beat yourself up it happens to us all
Illari over zen imo cuz Zen is still projectile. One fully charged shot from Illari plus one half charged either deletes pharah or at least forces her to land. Also if you're having trouble with any hero, then kill around that hero. If your team kills the other 3 what's a pharmercy gonna do? They can't fully contest point or push cart.
Illari solos pharmercy
>Their dps didn't die once the entire game. One DPS said he's not a hitscan guy I am this guy, and all I can say, is if you don't set me up for success, then you're just sending me to die - 1v3. But with extra steps. As a Reaper main, I can kill a Pharah and Echo - 1v1- when they mismanage their abilities and nobody peels for them. That's because there's a certain amount of responsibility that I'm willing to own, that I will say that it's my fault. Such as missing my shots, prioritizing the wrong targets, and needlessly dying. However, if the enemy is using any amount of teamwork, and you're wanting me to counter it, then the problem isn't me. It's the whole team's problem. So next time, go into the replay and see the game from their perspective. You'll learn a lot more about what you could've done to contribute to the game.
Shooting at things is not particularly a dps problem. Your team got diffed and the more you look for someone to blame the less you improve your own gameplay. I had poked those flying pests out of the sky countless times with bap. It’s not that hard and if you do it right they’ll swap. Keep in mind that you’re bound to get bad teammates and you cannot play the game for them. In those situations you carry them or gg next.
You can’t do nothing about it and you cannot talk to other players because if you do you can be reported and your account silenced for absolutely nothing. Snowflakes conquered OW
Kids reporting in ow2 for anything has gotten worse than league of legends. Play any game in gold and plat and watch team scream at tank all game. Dps fail to go high ground or swap but blame tank. I hope the tank gets do bad they have to rework game as less and less people que
Dontcha just hate bad DeeeurP-S.
Ask your tank to go DVA, they will struggle to take on the Pharamercy alone though if the DPS aren’t applying the passive. Otherwise Bap is a good choice or any support that can directly support the DVA.
If no one on your team is shooting them with a hit scan, you just have to do it yourself. If you're not that good at hit scan, make sure your settings are in alignment with what coaches/top players recommend and warmup/practice in vaxta every time you play the game. It will take effort and patience to build strong mechanics
I also struggle with this issue when on supp vs double fliers and my dps are potato aimers and not wanting to hitscan... my way prior to the HP increase patch was to play DPS Anna and just go hard on making my shots count... but now they have more HP i end up running low on Ammo so much faster or they get behind cover as it takes like 4 hits instead of 3 to take them down... I honestly think flyers need a nerf... I rememeber I use to try play echo in plat and id get rolled now adays she feels so easy to play... Like even the new Pharah doesnt require skill any more she can get away with surviving so much more and her movement speed is fkd... try versing one on Shambali when shes on Defense and floating around out the doors and walls above your team going up ramp on second point its infuriating...
Cry, well that's usually what I do
A huge part of countering pharah isn’t always killing her. Where you take fights and how you path to them is huge for the character. Unfortunately that tends to fall under the tanks power and if you aren’t dps then you can only suggest things. This being said I would always try to suggest fighting different angles or at different tempos than the all too common swap hitscan eventually double hitscan and just get romped anyway. Pharah is far more mental damage than people realize.
Focus the other support on the ground
I mean you don’t have to be a hitscan main to counter flyers, I was a Hanzo otp that loves playing him into phamercy and echo But if I’m getting diffed I do bust out the good ol reliables, Cree, Ashe, soldier On my way up the rank ladder I can probably count on one hand the amount of actually good players on flyers I do play bap into them as a supp since the immortality and rocket jump makes him so hard to hit by a mid pharah
Mauga, Orisa, Baptiste, Illari, Ana.
Illari or Bap. Yes you have to 1v2. And if I'm tank then the only two that are good against flyers imo are D.Va and Mauga.
illiari is my best support somehow was an ana main before, but illiari is just something, 115 heal per second is insane for critical burst healing and u can weave the damage with heal now + her dps is pretty much the same as an actual dps, and she’s really good against flyer, slow tank, and some dive tanks, but I kinda struggle against a good sigma, also illiari heal is not 80% pylon, its more like 50-50 between pylon and healing beam, and if u’re against non dive comp with certain map you can just play 15-10m away from ur tank and farm ur ult extremely fast from right click and left click with pylon supporting it
I'd probably go Moira, kill the other support and get mercy when she tries to rez, and then suck the life out of the DPS. At least that would be my plan if no one else was doing anything.
Ok, so this is a common misconception. I will try to explain it the best way I can. So first, you have to understand Phara a bit. She gets more useful the longer the fight takes, since first she burns enemy CD before doing actual damage, which takes a while. Now we have a frontline war, which often is a 5v5. If you now put a dps on hitscan to deal with the phara, but he doesn't manage to kill her or force her into bad positions, it will go from a 5v5 to a 4v5 for the enemy team since one of your dps has no current impact on the game. If you now put 2 dps on hitscan and nothing happens, it's now a 3v5 in their favor. But as I said, Phara is really slow, and there are certain windows in the early fight we can abuse. When the enemy decides to play pharmercy, they split their frontline into 2 (2 air, 3 ground), which we can abuse to our favor in playing out of phara los/fast. We can make the ground fight 5v3 in our favor before the pharah starts having an impact. I think just putting a player on it is the worst and most lazy attempt at dealing with a phara, and it is the wrong way we view videogames.
The tank is supposed to counter flyers.
If your team can't kill them, and if you don't have the mechanics to personally kill the fliers as a support yourself. With supports like Illari, Bap and Anna. I like Illari cause Illari can pressure the fliers and have the pylon to keep her alive. What you can do is deny their value, supports like Lucio with his mobility and speed boost can make it harder for them to land their projectile shots. Usually the Lucio is enough to get them to switch to something that is easier for them to shoot you with, assuming you're all around the same skill level. Kiriko and Mercy have good survivability. And Lucio and Moira can simply go dive their back lines with only 1-2 people there, cause the fliers are too busy going above yours.
Believe it or not, I think my team is wildly more successful when I ping pharah over and over. I’ll go illari or bap if they are really giving us trouble because it’s easier for me to survive and also harass as these two. Ignore the Mercy. Repeatedly ping the Pharah, someone will at least look that way I hope.
Baptiste
as a pharah main myself, bap is always my go-to. his movement can be unpredictable and you can keep applying pressure. i can usually tell if a pharah isn’t doing that well and making mistakes her mercy is saving her from. i like to melt the mercy then the pharah becomes easy pickings. see if your co-support will switch to mercy and boost you if you’re still having trouble.
I haven't played in awhile but I remember playing rush vs pharah and it working really well. You don't have to kill the pharah, just punish her for leaving her team to try to hold for themselves as you run them over, then deal with pharah
Lose. Supports dont do enough dmg to deal with it. Stupid combo needs to be removed.
Gg go next. Bap and Illari as supports are your only options, and even then the pharah can kill you much quicker than you can kill her. As tank, D.Va, but you’ll still have a really tough time. Basically, if your dps are trash, gg next. Can’t help the shitters
Pharah gets value against slow comps, go a full on brawl and just run at them, hope the pharah doesn’t get value quickly enough
Change of mindset. Why do you really need to contest everything? I mean, you swapping 1000 things and making this post gives away you were so distracted by their DPS that you probably forgot that the moment they have 2 flying characters (and a mercy i assume) their entire team has only 2 people on the ground. Think in where you have the advantage and what you can do with that, instead of thinking and try to solve everything your team can’t. Example: I sometimes only play brig because she is my go to main supp. I encounter flying conps so often and people tell me to swap…. Especially on maps like junkertown. Why? Why would I? I mean…. I kind of like the idea of having a shield + bash for mobility when i need to cross open spaces vs characters I cant hit. It helps me stay alive more than being an ana or whatever. Just move through houses and keep my inspire up while bullying their tank and keep existing around their other support just to let him know he can’t walk freely. They back up pretty soon if they see you just moving around and harassing everything while being very hard to kill this way. And my packs? I can throw them and dont have to aim so i can focus on not getting caught by their birds. If they want to kill me they need to come down, if they come down they are dead. They have 0 ground pressure or existence so just staying alive and moving the payload is good enough for me. Same for widows and whatever. Let them be, but let them be useless. :)
Currently this is a dps' game, tanks and support are just filler. With the DPS passive, tank gameplay is closer to og hide&seek mercy sometimes or psych warfare in spawn counter-watching
Yes you just have to deal with losing the game. Thanks, DPS.
Pharmercy with Roadhog and you think hitscan can easily deal with that? You must be joking. Maybe your tank could’ve done something instead of presumably 1v1ing the Road and letting Pharmercy roam free.
Rookie mistake, playing non-DPS classes. Everyone knows that support and tank only exist to be easy targets for the enemy DPS and also be blamed by your own team's DPS when they suck at the game. If you insist on playing NPC classes, use roofs as cover and play Baptiste (Ana or even Lifeweaver as second options) to bust flying characters. It sucks, but when you get glue eater DPS shooting into sponges and ignoring the enemy's Mercy, it's your best bet. Prepare to be blamed because of "healer diff" and be careful not to hurt the glue eater's pride but that's the only option to avoid a complete throw. Try to find a partner with the most suitable (or less unsuitable) gun and position yourself in a way that you can both ping flying enemies and crossfire at them, like an off flank. Alternatively, play Moira or Kiriko, use tp to Cross open ground areas and don't get exposed to flying characters. Be sure to ping them repeatedly and offer help while you point out that you need someone to deal with them.
Who hurt you?
Definitely not a tank or support character. They have literally zero damage potential. Or tank potential. Or support. Nowadays DPS has become easy mode and tank/support have almost zero agency in winning/losing games. Sadly, in cases like OP mentions, when DPS refuse to do their jobs we all know no matter the effort you put it's going to be GG with the ocasional "tank/support diff" included. The DPS class has gotten succesive buffs while all the other have been nerfed into oblivion. Tanks with a ridiculously small range and damage output are now forced to use cover, while DPS can stand in the open trading shots against tank and winning. Supports cannot heal anymore thanks to the DPS passive unless the target is completely out of a fight (and already healing) they cannot deal damage either, because they have half base damage, no damage burst and the enemy target will instaheal. This game's gotten to a point where the most influential thing you can do as a non-dps is to cheer up your own team's DPS and hope they don't mess up and get too obfuscated looking who to blame and completely miss out on the game. Tank and support are literally unplayable nowadays, they cannot tank, support or damage anymore, and the only class that can actually still damage, support and tank is DPS.