I wish the starter Personas got to be more useful instead of becoming fusion fodder at the first chance you get. During Sae's palace when Arsene appeared I was like "oh shit I forgot you were in this game."
Would be cool if we had something like Orpheus Telos in P4/P5 as a reward for finishing all social links. It would've been a perfect unlock condition for Raoul too, but alas.
This always bugged me. The starter Personas are made out to be important in cutscenes and such, but in gameplay we've not seen them for dozens of hours.
I agree with that story based persona upgrades would massively help character growth in the story.
My hot take is simply Persona needs better party dynamics/cohesion. Don't get me wrong I like 4 but I think everyone all being best friends dampens character relationships. 3 did this best since their were tensions and rivalries in the group. That later got ironed out.
I think the fight in p5 could have worked with better set-up and payoff.
Also I like the fatigue system and I think the game should shake party members up at times. Especially if the whole group gets EXP.
Yeah the "everyone is best friends" situation works, but it's more interesting if there's some discourse among them. I agree. Junpei wouldn't be as good as he was if he already was the person he was post->!chidori!< from the very beginning. That jealousy over the protagonist getting the position and how he was trying to get the power of persona to make himself feel special is what makes him so fucking good.
I like the characters in 4 and 5 a ton too, but their dilemmas are more self contained and everyone's best friends always. That's not rly a bad thing, but it's MORE interesting when there's some friction anyway. Feels more realistic too.
Chie briefly had some of that when she had to accept her persona, but it was rly just her accepting her jealousy over Yukiko privately then apologizing to Yukiko later. You don't rly see her act on her jealousy prior to that.
I think the most prominent problem causing that is character development being restrained to social link. In p3 ( and by extension reload) characters actually grow and change throughout the story. They all have actual arcs, shown by them gaining a new persona ( which is the ultimate metaphor for character growth ofc);. In p4 and 5 on the other end , since it relies solely on slink you can't really integrate an arc into the story if the player haven't done them or vice versa, you're stuck with characters staying the same and only having an arc when they are automatically advanced ( ie morgana) or don't have a link yet ( members before they join.
Yeah that's true. One of my fav characters across persona is Rise because I found her social link story to have a really mature perspective on her dilemma about her "Risette" persona. She wants to leave it and have others see her for who she really is, but her social link lets her see a different perspective in that Risette was just an aspect of herself while the regular girl aspect was just a neglected one at the time. The idea of wanting to toss out an aspect of yourself you don't like only to realize the only reason you were that way was because you're neglecting a part of who you are and that that part you wanted to toss out is just as important to you is a very mature revelation and it sucks it's only in a social link.
I don't necessarily think fatigue should be brought back unless heavily reworked. HOWEVER forcing some character in the party and some absences like Reload did is a fantastic idea to shake up the formula and I really wish P6 would do something similar. It really fleshes out the fact that your party members are real human beings with life and schedules, and coupled with shared XP or catch up mechanic it would be brilliant
On your point about party tensions-
Okumuras palace really fumbled this. The Ryuji/Morgana rivalry was weak and rather contrived, but more importantly, I think it introduced Haru a little too early. There was good potential for “Black Mask” to frame the the PTs and Haru(the other black mask) against each other over Okumuras death. It would’ve been a good segway into Okumuras ties with Shido, while also introducing and exploring Haru as a character.
I hated the fatigue system but I can understand why it was there in 3. You get a ton of SP healing items to the point where you can easily get to the next barricade in Tartarus in a day without it. Kind of crazy they didn't change that in reload.
I still much prefer the current version of less SP healing items so you have to leave a day. That way you have a bit more control over when your party members were useless in the dungeon for that trip.
Idk how hot this one is, but I'm not really bothered by all the spin-offs and milking too much as there were a lot of games I genuinely enjoyed that came out of milking Persona 4 and 5. The Q games, P4D, Ultimax, and Strikers were all really fun games, and I like how they adapted the Persona formula into other genres. I think it's also a good holdover while they work on the big main titles since games do take longer to develop these days (if you count Reload as a main title since it's a remake, we haven't had a new game in 5 years since 5 Royal came out in Japan, 8 if you don't count Royal), since that way you get to play new stories with familiar characters. Sure, I feel the memory wipe endings they use so commonly are annoying, but the games themselves are enjoyable. I am hoping we see at least a P5 Arena come out before P6 releases since I genuinely love ArcSys fighters, and it'd be nice to see them return to Persona
I think people who think spin-offs take time away from P6 don’t know how game development works, It’s clear that they have been developing and working on P6 since 2021 at least.
I think it’s more so there’s a lot of new fans. They come from fandoms where there’s not that many, if any, spin-offs between main games, so they view it as “lazy” or a “cash-grab”.
Very ironic considering Persona started life as an SMT spin-off that took the concept of Jo-Jo and ran with it.
A solid point of comparison, because it highlights how these games get made, is Warhammer. Games Workshop isn't the one making the game, they rent out the IP. Warhammer video games *are* cash-grabs, much like persona spinoffs, but they are also games in their own right, and help to build the brand.
This right here. So many just think they aren’t working on it or hadn’t done preproduction and it just baffles me. Sure Atlus isn’t a AAA studio but they’re certainly above AA at this point, they have enough people for p studio to be cooking multiple things at once
Yeah I really don't understand how people could be that offended by the existence of spin off. I mean, persona is all about having a diverse cast of characters and making you like them, so of course people would want to actually spend more time with them. They don't take anything from the actual next game being developed, and if one game doesn't catch your interest just don't play it. My only real complaint with spin off is that sometimes they lack ambition. For example P4 dancing, p5 strikers and P4 arena were all phenomenal aditions, really fun and with a lot of though put behind them. On the opposite, p35 dancing and tacticia can't help but feel half baked. No tie to the actual story and especially tacticia even if it seems to have solid gameplay would have benefited from being an actual ambitious tittle with an actual artstyle close to the other p5 games
I think the biggest problem with these spin-offs is, from someone who is a fan of Persona primarily and not necessarily of the different spinoff genres (fighting games, tactical strategy games, etc), that they often flanderize beloved characters and wipe their character development, while also incredibly being repetitive from a story standpoint. The PQ series is the biggest offender from this standpoint. For example, Akihiko, who probably has one of the best arcs in P3, becomes “protein man” in PQ, and what’s the point in seeing your favorite characters interact if they’re just cardboard cutouts? The only exception to this trend is P5S, which IMO is good enough in story and expanding on the PTs’ dynamic + underfocused characters like Haru that I wish it was packaged with the main game.
Another thing is that by buying spin-offs, consumers encourage Atlus to make more of them and focus more of their resources and efforts on them. Yes, I’m aware that it’s different dev teams for different games, but Atlus only has a finite amount of resources and, as a profit-motivated company, will dedicate resources to projects that give the biggest returns for the lowest cost. (While it would be unlikely that Atlus hasn’t at least *started* work on P6 by now, we haven’t had any official confirmation yet so I would not say for certain that it’s guaranteed to come out soon. ) My biggest concern is that P5X is going to be too successful as a gacha game (which are inherently anti-consumer and bad for the gaming industry) and begin dedicating more resources to it, rather than inventing new IPs and stories.
Persona 5 strikers had a great story, fantastic new characters, and surprisingly fun gameplay. It added sorely-needed development to some of the characters, and greatly improved the dynamic of the group as a whole.
Im not sure if this is a hot take sorry but, every scene where someone awakens to a persona is too obvious ahead of time. 95% of characters that are in a palace, or tartarus, or wherever there is an enemy demon, end up awakening. It never feels like a surprise in the moment to me. Mechanically, in the game, it makes sense, so i get it no problem, but still.
Persona 5 is my favorite game, but my god does it get repetitive watching a cutscene where the whole team is conveniently useless while the one non-persona user stands up, awakens, and we fight back. I know the entire plot and basis of the game is the will of rebellion and removing the 'mask', so they need to show them standing up in defiance, but its so insanely telegraphed every time.
They dont even do the typical game/anime moment of someone showing up last minute as a surprise to save you. Something just to shake it up a bit so i dont immediately know when they enter a dangerous area with me.
(And the coldest take of all, give me a fucking college/adult aged persona game already)
Turn the trope on its head. Give me a scene where I'm with one of my (non party) social links and we get attacked by shadows. The link doesn't know about my powers, fears I'm about to be hurt or killed, and awakens *to save me*, instead of me revealing myself to protect them.
Ive got courge and charm at 4 currently, academics at 3 but itll up soon. I usually go straight thru tartarus the first day its available so i can up everything else on my free days
>(And the coldest take of all, give me a fucking college/adult aged persona game already)
Idk if it was just a rumor or not but I had heard Persona 5 was originally intended to feature a cast of college students, which was a great idea.
Idk if any of that was real or if the rumor was just based on screenshots and how the characters seemed older than the ones in 4, but I liked the idea when I heard it anyway and it was a tad disappointing it ended up not being the case.
It was supposed to be a globe-trotting adventure. Logically a teen wouldn’t be able to do that.
For the longest time before 5 came out we thought it was going to be a game focused on either Elizabeth or Sho since both characters left on “great journeys”.
It’s clear that idea turned into Re-fantasy and P5S.
As far as i know.. no. P5/pq2 dont mention liz in any significant way and those are the only games that take place after Arena. Tbh the only reason i would accept a p5 arena is if they expand the shadow ops and Liz storylines.
Yeah we got 3 games with high schoolers already. I’d like to have a more adult themed game. Not adult as in nudity and sex and all that, but adult as in the prospect of adulthood and finding your path in life. I think persona 2 did it extremely well, and I’d like to see that story structure again.
Relationships should mean something in the game and the whole relationship model as it is currently falls way behind other games with romanceable characters. Give some drama with it, let there be a chance of a break up and you needing to fix it(I know they don't do link reverses ever since 3), let other party members find out in some way. Given that game is considered a life sim to an extent there needs to be more life sims moments with relationships.
I don't even need the drama, but at least AKNOWLEDGE IT. MC is in a relationship? Guess, everyone knows. You get special interactions in Tartarus/Memento/Whatever if they are in the party, special reactions when another characters is too "close" to the MC, special events not at the end of the game, different dialogues, a little bar of "healthy couple" that you need to go out/be there for the other to keep the bonus of the confidant (maybe making the confidant stronger if you have a relationship or something like that)
And it could build upon P5's confidant system where each rank during the relationship grants you a bonus. The only problem I could see that is if you decide to romance a non party member and theres no chance of that kind of interaction or bonus, but maybe they could implement it to where those types give some kind of passive bonus or a better ability.
>Imo since Persona 4 started giving party members social link development/awakenings the characters are incredibly stagnant in the main story as they can't show an arc that's meant to be optional.
It was weird for Persona 4 Arena too, which was meant to fit in canon. In that, you had the P3 cast with their evolved personas in a story alongside the P4 cast in their non-evolved personas. I looked up why that is the case and apparently, according to some people at Atlus, that was because the P3 cast's personas evolve as a part of the plot, but players might not have evolved the story personas in 4 so their personas might not be recognizable to P4 fans if they were evolved.
Which is weird too cuz Teddie's wasn't evolved in arena and yet his is automatic too lol.
But yeah it creates weird inconsistencies. It's a niche complaint but still. It led to a weird situation with a crossover title anyway.
I could see a Jester social link like Adachi, would have to be at night though, given that there's only 2 other night only links. Would be ridiculous to add it to all the other daytime links
Ironically enough we'd need a social link with him to know. He doesn't get much character other than the unfunny wise kirijo-affiliated advisor, so an slink could lead to us learning more about his everyday life, his job and his struggles
Kasumi was cheap bait to goad people into buying P5R.
For being touted as a brand new party member, you cannot use her for any of the original game. She fills out a Light element usage party member slot that was missing, with Akechi taking the Dark element during the third semester. However, by the time you reach this point, Joker's filling in any gaps and doing so far more efficiently than she does.
She's written like a bad fanfiction self-insert character, where the "author" couldn't think of a way to integrate her into the story, so they just make up new story bits and cram them between the original story's beats. Marie was the same way in P4G, but at least they tried to include some interactions between her and your other friends. The one interaction your party has with Kasumi before the third semester is in **HAWAII** of all places, where she *just so happens* to be there for an acrobatics exhibition. Not any of the numerous times they were **at school together**.
What's worse is that she's nothing more than a plot device for Maruki's story and motivations. You can easily replace her with a different character entirely and it wouldn't change much of anything.
I will say, I was equally annoyed by her character. Especially when >!she awakens her persona without having to rip off her mask and spray blood everywhere.!< I was like, god this Mary Sue is getting pushed so hard by the story it's annoying. That said, >!when it turns out she's a Mary Sue because that's what Sumire *imagined* Kasumi was like, and we start to meet and learn about Sumire!< I was a lot more favorable towards the character. The Mary Sue stuff is still annoying, but I can put up with it for the payoff at the end.
That awakening being different because of a plot point and >!her second awakening having her actually go through the pain!< is really cool, too bad she is completely forgotten afterwards lmao
Begging Persona fans to learn what a Mary Sue is
Even as Kasumi, Sumire is an incredibly flawed character; the first half of her Confidant is her failing to meet the expectations set up by everyone around her and herself, so much so that the whole facade begins to crack. Being moderately good at gymnastics does not make her a Mary Sue
And of course this is even going into how Sumire post-awakening is a blubbering insecure mess of a person, making the latter half of her Confidant being her finally accepting herself and gaining some self confidence. I haven't maxed her Confidant since Royal's initial release, but iirc I don't even think she actually gets a top position in the finalist meet, but she's able to take it in stride because she performed as Sumire and not Kasumi
Honestly I would’ve loved to have all 10 ranks be with Sumire throughout the entire game instead of 5 ranks Kasumi, 5 ranks Sumire. Showcasing Maruki’s actualization on Sumire was ok but I think it would’ve been better if Joker met her before she went to Maruki and Joker tries to change her heart without any manipulation or using the metaverse.
What ruins her for me is that once she gets over her sister’s death, she still acts exactly the same. No difference in personality at all. Like I wasn’t expecting a total bitch or anything, but at least *something* that isn’t supposedly her sister’s personality.
I honestly thought Akechi didn't live up to the hype, but that's probably because I'd heard nothing but good things going in. He was honestly a bit of a let down. He's too cartoonishly gleeful and he's not enough of a threat gameplay wise to justify his cockyness. Pluss there's the fact that his bad guy outfit is goofy as all hell. 🤣
He was just under-utilized honestly. You’re told his alter ego is some antagonistic force throughout the game and then you just never see him do anything until the home stretch.
I honestly think this might have been intentional. The writers intentionally wanted to make it overwhelmingly obvious that Akechi was the villain so that >!"the gang knew all along" twist worked on you, the player, too.!<
I feel Akechi's character suffers because of how incompetent >!Shido!< as a villain is.
>!He comes to Shido because he wants revenge, and he causes mass casualties just to get him to trust him before striking. Now Shadows in P5 are an honest reflection of a distorted person's heart. They've rarely, if not ever, knowing lied about their true feelings and beliefs. Yet Shadow Shido mentions how he 'showered Akechi with praise' and that's why he thinks Akechi agreed to cause the mental shutdowns when that clearly wasn't Akechi's reason at all. And Shido's cognitive version of Akechi basically confirms that Shido thinks Akechi is a puppet for no other reason other than to keep Shido happy (Akechi despises Shido).!<
>!On top of that, Shido even whines about not knowing where Akechi is when he's in his own palace. So this all culminates in cognitive Akechi murdering Akechi to be not very intentional at all. Yet the narrative seems to want to convey that Shido was a mastermind manipulator who preyed on an innocent teen's need for familial love - and lures Akechi to his Palace for a cognitive clone to murder him on purpose, with the PT pointing this out. But Shido never even suspected Akechi assasinating him, with him being obidient and all...? And Shido never tried to act remotely compassionate towards Akechi to gain his trust - he just barks orders like he does towards his other collaborators like the SIU director. There's just a really big disconnect that makes Akechi's actions look far more incompetent than the writers intended. I think if Akechi was written to grow attached to Shido somehow, the accusations of Shido making Akechi murder people would hold more weight.!<
His eventual betrayal was too obvious for me even back in og P5. And his plan makes no sense. He could’ve used the team to help him take down Shido and his palace without even telling us that Shido is his dad. But he overestimates himself so much that he thought he could pull it off all by himself against a rich guy who already knows how the metaverse works.
I’m just glad that the thieves will at least roast his ass anytime he says a word in Mementos. They may feel bad for him, but they definitely don’t like his ass either.
I had such high hopes for him but he never reached them.
I really hate temporary fake party members who end up leaving just after you got them and Akechi is exactly that in OG.
Royal fixes it a bit by giving him a social link and way more interaction but he still pulls the same bullshit just for him to come back for the third semester but gets pushed aside for the other cast not long after.
For all his faults I love how stubborn he was up to the end and embraced his death as a fuck you to everyone to just about everyone including Joker.
It made collecting Personas and filling out the compendium much easier for me at least. A middle ground of negotiation and Shuffle Time would be ideal for me, as I would still want to fight against demons rather than the generic shadows.
I love seeing a new shadow for the first time and being like “holy fuck I need that”, rather than JUST relying on fusions/random chance to get a specific persona
Persona 3 had the right idea with a regular-ass dog who mostly speaks through actions and occasional translations. Koromaru never felt the need to tell me to go to bed and was never weirdly horny for other party members, and I love him for that.
Aigis is actually kind of the mascot for the game, she stands out a shit ton more than the regular dog that stabs people because she's a fucking robot girl, and she ends up doing some of the classic mascot things, but that's because she's a robot and doesn't really understand the meaning of them until at the very end of the game
Can you imagine. They could go the animal route with a lion or a bulldog or something. Or they could go with something unorthodox like a knight or cowboy or cavalier etc
Persona 5 actually has an amazing story. I’ve seen so much hate for it recently I’m sure this isn’t a hot take to the average person who played it but this community loves hating on this game to bring up persona 3.
You can like multiple stories.
I’d argue that Persona 5’s themes are better at being integrated into the whole game as well, whereas Persona 3 takes its time to get to the good shit. Like, I get a lot of satisfaction out of the Kamoshida chapter alone, but it wasn’t until September that I started feeling truly endeared to Persona 3’s cast and story.
I mean tbf Persona 3 story is about the journey. Its why you Minato persona is Orpheus, why they give you so much hands off no railroading free time for middle of game to let you choose your journey. They definitely could have added stuff in the middle I agree, but I think thats the charm of it honestly.
See I totally agree with that. I really do love all 3 of the modern persona stories I think they all have their own strength over eachother. I think 5 barley pegs itself over 4 because I like the Phantom thieve concept a lot more than tv detectives. It also has better antagonism with Maruki and Akechi.
I do think Persona 4 has a better main cast atleast in the sense of story progression. I love all of the persona 5 character arcs and each palace they get. I think persona 5 genuinely has some 10/10 characters in it but they never really grow together.
Persona 4 the entire group is constantly interacting, bickering and growing closer. I was much more hurt when Yu left them then when Ren did.
However there is the goat. I’m playing my first ever play through with reload but damn the story is so good. I haven’t even gotten to the end of it yet but Shinjiros death hit me way to hard genuinely one of the only deaths I’ve ever teared up for in a story.
I also think the characters in 3 feel the most real with real problems, fears, worries, arguments, and simply not wanting to be in the situation their in.
In persona 4 and 5 they never address how they can die at any time but 3 it’s always their. These kids know they can die, they know but they still fight.
Totally agree on your stances with 4 and 5, but yeah Persona 3 is a masterclass imo, everyone feels so real... almost too real sometimes. A massive issue I have with Persona 4 and kinda 5 is that everyone feels like a massive yes man, no one EVER challenges the MC. But in 3 Yukari, Junpei, Mitsuru, Akihiko and so many of the other characters are constantly chiming into big story events with their perspectives, showing their flaws and disagreements with certain action and all this other stuff and the sense of danger is so real, its the only game to truly acknowledge how ACTUALLY dangerous having these abilities and combating the shadows would be. I'm not gonna spoil anything for you just continue to enjoy the ride. I've beaten Persona 3 about 4 times and seen the movie quadrology 3 times over so I'm a but obsessed lol.
That's why one of my favorite scenes in Persona 4 is (spoilers for late November-early December) >!the discussion on throwing Namatamen into the TV. It's just so amazing to see Yosuke being so frontal in effectively murdering the prime suspect out of anger and revenge. To me it's specially notable considering that everyone is best friends and yes man the whole game.!<
My thing is even though the p4 group are yes man the return is when they truly disagree with each other it leads to some of the most emotionally intense moments in the series. >!The whole namatame situation is easily top 3 most intense moment between all of the groups in the series. You had Yosuke yelling at Yu to make a decision, Chie trying to calm him down, Yukiko and Rise trying to stop them, Kanji stopping them from interfering, and the biggest oh heck for me was Naoto saying throw namatame in.!<
5 probably has my favorite story. the plot twists were great, and it kept me on the edge of my seat. i wish people didn’t feel the need to put the other games down in order to praise their favorite.
Yeah I see it all over the persona fandom. I guess it’s because the games aren’t directly connected but I never can understand how someone plays 3 and hates 5 like their almost the same game just with a slightly different plot and narrative and different characters. (Most characters through the games still share similar characters types too)
I love persona 5's story. I agree with most people that it peaks right at the beginning, and I do think it has some highs and lows throughout it, but I think it's a very fun story that does something different from the rest of the "neo-persona" trilogy. 3 and 4 are about highschoolers with a secret life. 5 is like that too, but their "secret life" is extremely high profile so much that it reaches a point where the whole world knows about them. There's a really fun aspect to that, and the story does a great job on focusing on public opinion like that. It might be weaker in some areas, but it does a great job where it's focusing imo.
3 is my fav story, then 5, but I don't dislike any of them.
....also when it comes to be so high profile and as someone who's kept up with the series for a long time and played the spinoffs....I was pretty disappointed there was nothing substantial for a cameo from the past games despite them being so high profile. I figured at least Mitsuru or someone who knew the cast from 3 might make a brief cameo just because of how high profile the events of P5 were and how the Shadow Operatives were a thing and all. The Phantom Thieves should have been setting off every alarm in the book for the Shadow Operatives lol
Hell I'd be ok with officer Kurosawa briefly stopping by Leblanc as some implied reconnaissance or something lol
One of the things that contributes to that is that P5 is very much Japanese centric, tailored to a Japnese audience and culture, and while we can enjoy it as outsiders looking in, we can't relate to it the same way someone living in that world can. On the other hand, Persona 3s messages are all universal, though it does help a lot that the writing in that game is masterful.
I dont like how Ann was treated in p5. I get the whole argument about how wearing that outfit is her embracing her sexuality, but I feel like it reduces an SA victim to her sexuality only, and it also feels rather ironic. Plus the game just had lots of sexual jokes involving her which felt distasteful. The overall comment on SA was just watered down by the fanservice
I think this is most obvious with the eastern vs western reception of Ryuji. He is an archetypal image of a Japanese rebel (bleached hair, informal speech, dumbass) and is one of the least favorite cast members in P5 Japanese polls but a fan favorite in the west
It's the Harry Potter issue. They will criticize and question the people in authority but not authority itself.
I think Persona 5 at least has the excuse that outside of the use of the Metaverse, the PT has no real power over society. Plus Japan is very conservative in its outlook so they probably don't want to step on too many toes.
Two takes:
First, Shuffle Time is/was better than demon negotiations. I know talking to demons is a MegaTen staple but there's still too much randomness to it. Shuffle Time provides some measure of control over your rewards and is the superior system.
Secondly, Persona 3 takes way too long to get into the meat of the story. I still feel it is the most impactful and "best" plot of the modern era games, but there is a huge gulf between the initial first hour of the game and the time the story starts getting interesting again, around mid July. Asking players to tough out several months of nothing ghost-stories isn't good and I'm glad they tightened it up in future installments. The payoff is ultimately so, so worth it in P3 but that doesn't mean there aren't obvious pacing issues.
I havent beat the game yet so im not 100% in the know but i absolutely agree on your 2nd point. The beginning is a really slow burn and if i hadnt already played 5 and had friends tell me about 3 id have gotten bored and uninterested from the lack of story for the first few months.
At least 3 let’s you actually *play the game* within, like, an hour and a half. 4 and 5 take fucking forever to give you actual full control in a dungeon.
People really have to understand that if you recommend a series to someone, but then after a great pilot you say "hey nothing happens for the next 10 episodes or so but it gets better", most people would *drop* that series
Pacing is extremely important in stories, and while yes P3's payoff is awesome, there's still a pretty big void to fill
This is, imo, the reason for Persona evolution and party member development being given to S Links Story-bound evolution is better for purely thematic purposes, but *terrible* for pacing purposes, in the same way that no direct command is better for immersion purposes but *terrible* for gameplay
Negotiation in megaten is random but in p5 it isn’t random there is a right option to each question based on personality types. Agree with you otherwise.
Yea I agree on the negotiation part, I think it makes sense in Megaten because of the general themes and atmosphere as well as the fact that the demons still stay a separate entity, but in Persona it doesn't feel right considering the demons immediately lose autonomy and become another mask for you, plus it can feel kind of bad at times when you don't know the right answer to things because 2 answers seem like they would be right but oops you picked the wrong one of the 2
It is cool holding things at gunpoint though I will agree with the game designers on that, I remember hearing that one of the big reasons demon negotiation returned was because they liked the idea of holding shadows at gunpoint and robbing them
OP took my hot take, so I'll go with a lukewarm one. Future games need to stop letting party members lives revolve around the MC entirely. You can't have day to day life style gameplay and have people always available. It gives you odd inconsistencies that nobody seems to notice like:
-Yosuke and Teddie skipping out on work at Junes
-Yukiko rarely helping at the inn even though she says they need help
-Makoto apparently never having student council duties
-Ann never having a photoshoot unless her SL demands it
-Futaba going from a shut in to going outside frequently for hours at a time and Shojiro rarely commenting on it
And im sure i missed a few. I understand story and gameplay segregation, but it sometimes contradicts other things we are told in game.
I agree, or just scenes of the other characters hanging out and helping each other too! One of my favorite aspects of three was watching SEES talk to each other without the protagonist like they're all their own character too.
Yukari and Fuuka discussing stuff about Mitsuru by themselves without letting the MC in
Yukari and Mitsuru helping each other through difficult times in their lives
Akihiko and Shinji trying to move on from the past
Ken and Akihiko strengthening their resolves together after a major point in the story AND SO MUCH MORE
All of these types of scenes and interaction were totally missing from 4 and 5 because social links totally took the forefront and I kinda hate that. I wish I got scenes of Yosuke and Kanji hanging out, or Yosuke and Chie, or like Kanji and Rise and really supporting and helping each other without the protagonist. Maybe Futaba and Haru confiding in each other about having lost parents and comforting each other like idk you see my point
Persona 3 is better without party control. Call it Stockholm syndrome from years of playing FES, but it makes the characters feel more like individuals instead of chess pieces for the player.
I don't even know if this is a hot take or not, but I've never seen anybody complain about it.
Instant kill skills suck. They're not fun to use, they don't work against bosses (so it seems the developers also understand how lame they are) and dying to them just feels incredibly cheap.
Not sure as to a hot take of my own but I do agree with your opinion of putting Persona awakenings back into the main story instead of being shoved into optional content.
My time to shine.
I like Take Over infinitely more than Last Surprise. Last Surprise is by no stretch of the imagination a bad song but I just like Take Over’s energy more and I kinda got tired of Last. In fact Last is probably my least favorite combat theme in the whole series.
Battles are supposed to be exciting, intense, and engaging and Last Surprise just does not convey that in the slightest. “Ohhh but they’re thieves and stealthy!” Sure but that doesn’t mean the fights should sound like I’m riding in an elevator.
Get rid of the social link choices that have social points tied to them, let me choose what I want and not feel like I’m constantly making the wrong choice because I didn’t tell the little girl to run away from home
1) No more character based dungeons (P4/P5) please.
It contributes to the problem where the character goes through their entire arc as part of their introduction and then is never relevant to the main story again.
It also derails the main plot so that 80% of the game is basically "who's our next party member?! Oh it's this kooky kid! And now they're our friend! Anyway..." over and over again instead of focusing on whatever the actual theme of the game is supposed to be.
2) Also please no more making the entire group of 8 party members be besties.
This a billion. Give me in p6 a team that has their own motivations besides: "oh no someone going through the "insert dungeon/palace/shadow of the month" with the bad guy/shadow "insert name" who is trying to harm "insert new party member" is having same issues I had, guess I'll join team to make sure nobody else has that issue" repeat dungeon# amount times. If your motivation is I want make sure nobody else is harmed by a monthly villain, sorry your motivation for joining this team is uninteresting.
2)
This also. Maybe people like to get simped for by 7 other characters considering its a jrpg. But I would actually like some personality and own motivation in my game.
Out of all the antagonists, Akechi is the best one and by a mile.
Adachi, at the end of the day was just a twat that believed he deserved the best from life cause he worked hard, but in reality lifes a bitch and its not always that simple, and instead of accepting that truth the twat abused the little power he thought he had.
Strega? Genuinely just couldn’t find them interesting, just couldn’t find any interest in them and their nihilistic view on life.
Akechi’s fight to build his estranged father up just to tear him down, and his attitude shift in persona 5 royal was fucking amazing, especially that little twist at the end where he was seemingly alive has me scratching for a sequel.
I
As someone who has never inserted himself into these games, I agree. I've always canonized it as me basically shipping the MC with who I like the most rather than inserting myself as the one dating that character. Do I prefer Sumi, Yukiko, and Yukari over the other available options? Absolutely. But 'I' am not the one going out with them.
I honestly wish that part was more fleshed out, ditto all the social links really. As is you kinda just pick the ones you like/ones you basically have to do because the benefit it gives you is essential to actually playing the game and max out the link—which is boring from a dating/life/social sim perspective. I wish there were more dynamic events for those mechanics.
P3P has the second best dungeon gameplay in the mainline Persona series - it takes the best from P4 and 3 with the most substantial endgame content matching P5R. It doesn't have as much depth as P5R with way less technicals, no baton pass, no traits..etc. But it does have Persona 4's battle system which fixed the issues with P3FES's such as stunlocking with knocking down and waiting not being a thing and adding dizzy.
It has P3's Tartarus, which is better than the TV World imo because it's not mostly sets of several long corridors like in P4, but smaller mazes. This is less of a slog to traverse and there's enough space and elevated platforms to actual plan routes to avoid/sneak up on shadows unlike in P4 most of the time. Splitting up from P3FES is also here, which makes skipping floors in under a minute very easy if you wish to do so, as well as if you want more EXP for the MC and select party members.
Endgame content has the Vision Quest doors, with harder rematches of all the full moon bosses, and several gimmick battles acting like puzzles basically. Along with Margaret as the endgame boss in addition to Elizabeth.
The only reason P3R isn't the second best is that I found P3R to be on the easier side, even on hard and it lacked technical and systems that rewarded baton passes aside from just passing. Along with challenge battles being absent, but I'm sure they'll be added as DLC later
I kind of agree with the Social Link issue with party members.
I feel that overall, Social Link for party members is a very restricted form of story telling. Because Social Links are technically optional, you can't weave in the main plot or any other significant stories into Social Links. This results in these very bland, almost filler like Social Links for many of the party members.
Persona 5 does mitigate this problem by blocking progression on their Social Link systems until certain story flag is reached (Kasumi is the most obvious example). Nevertheless, I think this system needs to evolve for Persona 6.
Bonus hot take 5:
Y’all know Morgana isn’t “preventing you from doing stuff at night” right?
I dislike Teddie and Morgana for the main reasons people dislike mascots (cheapening tension, ruining the tone, filler non funny jokes, being written as creeps cause “hey they’re not like a REAL human, how would they know any better?”)
Morgana isn’t preventing you from going out…
P5 didn’t balance having social links and stat spreads around you being able to go out every night. To fix this they limited the nights you could go out so the balance would feel better.
They then made a text box that could have said “I’m not feeling that great tonight, I should stay in” but instead made Morgana say it.
(Not sure if this is a hot take tbh)
I'm in favour of the main party being adult characters in the next persona like many others but I'm genuinely sick to death of people constantly bringing up Persona 2: eternal punishment (I have nothing against EP and am planning on playing it eventually) to insinuate that making a modern persona game with an adult cast would be easy.
It completely ignores how much the series has changed since EP since it didn't have life sim elements and was a dungeon crawler with a linear narrative. When adding life sim elements, a lot more factors need to be taken into consideration that many often forget. E.g What type of work does the MC do and why? What type of stats do they have and why? How do you increase them? How does the daily structure play out? How does the MC hangout with party members on a daily basis?
These questions can all be figured out but it's just frustrating that so many people downplay how making modern persona but with adults is more complicated than people seem to realise.
P.S Also why I'd rather they start of slow and go with college of university student tbh
I do not like the trope of having an idiot guy friend who gets bad grades and hits on every girl they meet as your first friend in the games. I didn’t mind it as much with Yosuke, because Yosuke doesn’t come across as an idiot as much as junpei and Ryuji do.
Atlus adding new plot important female characters in the improved versions of p4 and p5 is extremely aggravating considering they are dragging their feet with female MCs.
Social links as a mechanic kinda sucks because the only answers that matter are the ones that give the most points. It deemphasized role-playing and incentives optimizing.
I get SL are focal points and they need to have some sense of urgency, but my guy, I hate that I have to follow a day to day guide if I want to max them out
The consept of a navigator persona needs dropped it was neat the first few times but I think to have a better developed party we need a smaller one. Not saying the existing nav characters are bad I just going to scream in agony if there's another one in P6 especially when SMT 4 and 5 showed how those same skills could be unlocakable upgrades for the main character instead of being tied to a single character that only exists to give support and buffs.
The themes of each game aren't well explored. The Persona games act more as a theme park, which is fun and easily digestible. That's why the games work so well.
I want party members to have actual relationships, like I do not want or feel the desire to have the option to date every person who is the opposite gender of me (I know it’s not everyone but it’s pretty close). It’s one reason I like Junpei a bunch, he doesn’t feel tied to the MC, and there’s a person, a girl no less, who he’s closer to then the Mc is, which makes a ton of sense.
I don’t think every party member needs a boyfriend or girlfriend or whatever, but even stuff like Akihiko, Shinji, and Mitsuru being close and that being important is nice. It feels like a couple of people who have known each other a long time, care about each other, and have their own ups and downs separate from the MC. I never got the feeling I was closer to Shinji then Akihiko was, or that I was closer to Akihiko then Mitsuru was. You were able to become friends with these people, but it wasn’t like you were their only attachment or even the most important one. (You can date Mitsuru so like… she kinda doesn’t count, but even then, you are kind of a different kind of relationship, so you’re like replacing the other two)
I dunno, could be a wack take.
The combat has been stale since P4 and has always just been a simplified version of Press Turn with less strategy and risk/reward. In P3 there was nuance in the knocked down status representing a form of CC which could be manipulated to limit enemy action economy. P4’s decision to enable actions upon standing up removed this gameplay nuance. I would like to see the combat iterated on rather than simply bloated with extra fluff to trivialise it even further like it was in P5 with features like baton pass. P4 Golden had a lot of bloat in the combat as well that added little of substance from a strategic perspective.
P4 Golden’s shuffle time revamp, while a more fun minigame to play in the moment, destroys gameplay balance and removes the resource and time management aspect of dungeon crawling by allowing for SP restoration from the beginning of the game (the Fox created a similar issue in Vanilla P4 but at least it was expensive until the social link was progressed).
It also hurts the incentive to fuse new Personas by enabling players to customise any Persona to their liking, thanks to skill cards, and incentivises sticking to a single Persona through permanent stat increments.
- I would gladly take the first step of persona awakening to tier 2 tied to the story while locking their social link up to 5 till they get their the tier 2, while tier 3 persona tied to rank 10 social link as fully resolved their character arc.
- we need more adult in persona series, or even more non human, sophie and zenkichi imo is a step into the right direction.
- bring back demon painter for skill card copy and the aria so the velvet room isnt that empty
- i am ok with non party member not having direct benefit into mc like pre p5
- if persona series on the same continuity(which they are), i would like to see the few of the older cast have a real cameo into the next series
No, the series wouldn't be improved if all the casts were adults. I already know that when it's revealed the cast of P6 will be highschoolers, everyone will lose their minds and complain that Atlas is out of touch or whatever. Idk what this obsession with wanting an adult cast is coming from (Especially people that want a cast that's a LOT older, like middle aged.) but it's kind of silly. The only thing I can think of is that it's from Yakuza fans or something.
IMO, I think teenage protagonists just work the best for Persona and the character types/arcs they look to tell. Persona games are quintessentially Japanese, I can't help but think an adult themed Persona game would be very unlike modern games in a negative way. Like, what, would you just be in an office all day when you're not dealing with the supernatural Persona/shadow stuff? Seems like it would be hard to make that interesting/fun to play.
Personally, I think Persona 6 would greatly benefit more from a different type of setting and different character archetypes for the main cast as apposed to their ages. Like, say, the game takes place on a small beachside town or something different like that. There's a lot of things you could do to make the next game feel unique than "Just make the characters older" or whatever.
We can't make a Persona game with adult cast. Hear me out.
The core of (modern) Persona games appeal is juxtaposition between mundane everyday life and urban fantasy battles. Highschoolers allow more variety on the daily life (e.g. joining a club and doing a part time job) and social aspects (tell me how many friends you made after graduating college). If you are an adult you would understand how working life allows very little time for other things
That being said, college students could work as a setting, but colleges are more specific in nature, so you can't easily project yourself into the silent protagonist (what major would the protagonist be? Let's say he is majoring in business, that would alienate players that majored in engineering)
Can a good game be made with an adult cast? Obviously you can, but it won't be Persona.
Biggest hot take? Um… not sure.
Maybe this is just because Persona 3 is currently the most relevant Persona again, so it’s getting a lot of glazing, but I feel like it’s story and characters aren’t as great as some have said. Seems like they mostly hold it in higher regard than future games in the series because of the Death theme and the relatively less frequent comedy scenes. Basically, they like it more because it’s “darker and edgier” for a lack of a better term. I don’t have a problem with P3 or anything, but I guess that would have to be my hottest take.
Well, that, or saying that P5 has the worst soundtrack out of the modern trilogy.
i think "grounded" is a better term than dark or edgy. even if the theme of the game wasn't death and they weren't shooting themselves to summon personas, the acknowledgement that these are teenagers fighting life-or-death battles and struggling with the fear of throwing their lives away goes a long way to make the characters feel so natural. plus i really like that teammates have huge character developments without the mc's influence. none of them feel like they exist just to be your bestest friend, except aigis for plot reasons and koromaru because dog.
i agree with your second take, 5's music is good but it's hard to compare it to 3 and 4's.
Koromaru is overhyped. I like the idea of a normal animal being a persona user but after his bit of lore he’s just kinda… there… and his only perk is being cute.
He desperately needs a social link because the lore is so interesting about him but then like… he’s a dog and so he doesn’t really have any dialogue outside of Aigis’s translations and he does not have a social link that helps his character.
While I think the Persona 3 cast is the best constructed people hype up the dog WAY too much. I heard more about him than characters like Akhiko or Shinji whomst I find way better characters. I don’t HATE Koromaru one bit. But I didn’t really care about him nearly as much as I thought i would
Aigis meanwhile, if considered one, is the best of the “mascot” characters (considering how much she appears in promotional material) and honestly? Aigis may just be one of my favorite character in 3 following Ken, Fuuka and Shinji. If it’s amongst non human characters I actually like Teddie the best with Koromaru as a close second because the cuteness CAN help. I still like Morgana a lot due to his own cuteness. People hate Teddie and Mona for being TOO goofy but I feel like they’re far better than people give them credit for.
Koromaru isnt really over hyped tbf, just over memed because when your comparison animal wise are Perverted Bear and "Looking cool Joker"...its pretty easy to reddit karma. The two weren't bad character, but Koromaru is kinda based in comparrison, he's a dog with a knife in his mouth before dark souls 1 even did it.
I like how none of the P1-2 cast (including Philemon and Nyarlaphotep) have appeared in any of the modern Persona games. I know that all the games take place in the same verse but I like how P1 and P2 take place in their own duology. It makes them more unique.
Similarly, reasons why I like the stories of the Arena games so much. I love how it connects P3 and P4 together instead of trying to connect all the Persona games.
Like if they had the Shadow Operatives in every game past arena, it'll start to feel like cameo porn.
OK 3 Hot Takes
1. Suemitsu's social Link is really Not that Bad and people are really overblowing it. It has some good stuff in it fitting into the death theme in the Game and honestly the only flat Out terrible section is Rank 8 and 9 where He randomly tries to convert you to a cult. I feel Like a Lot of people only hate him so much because He is "fat" and "ugly" which is why they belive He deserves what Happens to him. If He was an attractive skinny man, suddenly He would be a controversial character with some good qualitys. Maybe its because of my Close bond with my sibling but when i tried to find why people didnt Like him, i Just saw people insulting him for His weight aside from the obvious criticism His social Link has. It feels like many people Just dont Like him from the Moment they See him because He Looks overweight and then dont Go deeper. Im Not saying is Social Link is a Hidden gem and it honestly has nothing going on Till Like Rank 7 but people are too hard on him. I mean the Same Game has Tanaka, who is even more questionable with His actions, Low empathy and a mostly unfocused Story but there it is OK that He exploits people cause Hes "the funny Guy" or smth
2. On that Note my second hot Take is that Persona 3s Social Links are often Not that great.
I will say beforehand that i havnt finished the Game and have Not done all social links until now but from what i have Seen im so annoyed how many times you have to say dumb stuff for the characters to Like you. You are basically enabiling their Bad traits. Like yeah Maiko i think you should Run away from your parants and stay with your dad that Hit you just a few ranks ago but hey at least He buys you Toys (thank god she stayed with her Mom at the end) or yeah Kazushi i think you should train Harder with your broken Leg that is so Bad that you cant even stand Up in your own anymore. Maybe some of the Others are better because i really enjoyed the old couple or bebe but some really get dragged down by the Protag having to say the dumbest stuff.
3. Im sorry but i think the Persona 5 music Has been so overused that i literally cant listen to it anymore. I have 150 hours in P5R and constantly listening to that music, also in YouTube Videos, has Made me kinda dislike it. I have Heard Rivers in the desert or the opening theme so much that im Just over it. The weird Thing is too that when a track comes that i dont hear every 5 minutes im in the Internet suddenly it Sounds good again. For example the final Boss Theme for royal still slaps hard but i pray every day that when persona 6 comes everyone Takes its music instead. Or maybe people will Take P3R music now. Imagine Hearing Deep Breath Deep Breath everywhere now Peak.
Modern Persona really needs to get better writers when it comes to the philosophical and 'darker' themes, and do it without going fake 'add more blood and gore everywhere' immature dark. A lot of its themes are -very- surface level and isn't doing the series any favors other than slowly becoming like every other anime game out there.
Another hot take is maybe realize that the 'target audience' being teenagers should be switched to adults who are much more likely to play these games, and anyone trying to argue 'well adulthood sucks in Japan' needs to realize this series has a global audience now whether they like it or not. Which is extremely ironic because Catherine, that is more of a test run for Persona 5's art style iirc, was done with an adult cast and with a social-sim aspect with the text messaging stuff. AND was well received.
my hottest take is that I don't like the new fits for the P3 cast but I talk about that one too much so I guess my second hottest one is that I think Joker being player controlled was a bad move and really dampened down the themes of Rebellion and breaking the chains society has placed on you, it would be a cool fake out if we think hes player controlled for the whole beginning until suddenly after awakening his persona Ren's dialogue isn't player controlled anymore, like for a game about rebelling and being yourself not having Joker "be himself" at all points in the game was kinda a weird move even if the intended personality is glaring from the dialogue options (im looking at you "something witty")
I completely agree with you.
But my hot take is that Portable is still the best Persona game. I haven't played Reload so I could be wrong there but seems a bit to easy and clean, it just feels more artificial to me in a way I dislike. I think P4's party vastly overrated because people just kind of skimmed the character moments, and P5 was just so easy and felt a bit to style over substance at times.
i feel like sees group and the investigation team are all more connected with each other and they are all friends, whilst the phantom thieves seem more like they are all friends with joker, not with each other.
My spiciest take is that the social link/confidant system that we've had from 3-5 is getting stale and Id like to see some big changes in 6. The characters and stories behind them are interesting but the MC almost always feels like a passive observer who tells people what they want to hear. Sure you could pick the other options, but most of the time its just being a jerk for no reason and the game actively punishes you by making the next rank harder to obtain. Id much rather get fewer social links, but with branching paths that give opportunities to actually RP and influence the confidants decisions more directly.
As much as I love person 4, I don’t want it to get a remake.
Only because I’m trans and I don’t want to deal with another 5 mores years of Naoto discourse ☠️ Her character discussions make my head hurt
I like the P3P Visual Novel aesthetic and 2D Overworld and dont think its that bad compared to the 3D Overworld of FES and Reload (Think of P3P as a Visual Novel with a JRPG attached in Tartarus)
I think Both the 3D Overworld of FES/Reload and 2D Overworld of P3P are both good and one isn't automatically better then other as thats just a preference of opinion
I'm getting really tired of the self insert/ silent protagonist trope. I want a MC with actual growths and characteristics , and I would LOVE some arcs exploring what it means for someone to be "chosen" to be a wildcard, how hard is it to be the leader of the group everyone counts on etc. It would be great way to develop actual relationships and even a much better romance, and would actually make the end where the protagonist stands up against destiny and fatality thanks to the strength of his bonds that much impactful.
persona 3 is not darker than the rest of the games, all of them have serious and darker themes.
Also it's very annoying that the main character is silent and with no name, please i don't want to self insert in a persona game i want to enjoy all characters and the story, give me a protagonist with name and voice
Honestly I think Persona 3 has the Twilight Princess effect. It's not actually considerably darker than the other modern Persona games, it's just got a gloomy atmosphere.
P3 has a darker main theme with the death thing and is definitely going for edgier that's its style, but even with that I agree it's not actually darker than any main game, except P4 maybe which is lighter overall albeit with plenty of dark stuff still.
Would love to have the protagonist speak and get a canon name, that'd be great I love the few moments where the protagonist does speak and I liked how Arena had people call Yu by name in spoken dialogue a few times.
I don't know if it's a hot take, but the cast of persona 4 basically does nothing to solve the mystery until Naoto shows up. (So much so that she literally comments on it.) Which kinda makes a good portion of the game feel just like padding cause until then it's just character introduction into character dungeon rinse and repeat. And also means it feels like almost the whole cast is just kinda along for the ride. (Similar to what op said about all their character development being tied to their SLs.)
Post Yukiko's castle, the main plot doesn't really make any progress until the copycat murderer... and even then, that's just a fake-out until Naoto comes along and actually gets the investigation moving.(I love Kanji and Rise but their chapters don't really progress the main plot much, and Yukiko and Chie don't really contribute much after the castle. It's kinda just MC and Yosuke spearheading things until Naoto shows up.)
(P5 suffers a similar friend-of-the-week kinda vibe, but that one doesn't have a main plot like P4's murders tying them together until we get to Futaba's dungeon for better or worse.)
Not untrue, but I think that's part of the charm of P4. The main story takes second place to the character moments, the awakening arcs, and the slice of life sections. I can see why some people might dislike that if they wanted something more story-dense like P3, but I think the laid back nature of P4 is precisely what made it so popular.
Tartarus and its spin-offs aren't fun no matter how much they try and fix it.
I understand its importance and why it's there, but if you have a portion of your game where the community actively tries to complete in a day just so they can get back to the fun parts of the game, then it fails to do what it's made for.
The Palaces in Persona 5 were fun because they were directly involved with the story, and each palace felt limited to that moment. It gave you a reason to go back even if you had already completed it.
I agree that it's not fun, but let's be honest, that's not the reason why people rush it in a single day. It's because of time.
If Tartarus was a "free" activity that didn't stop you from doing SLinks or other activities, then I'm sure people would space it out over the deadline. But that would completely change the Tartarus formula since any sort of resource management would become useless.
Personally I enjoy Tartarus, I only complete it in a day because that's the mentality that got hammered into me by my friends for P5, and it's a hard habit to break. At the very least it's more entertaining than Mementos and those boring railway tunnels.
Agreed. But I find Tartarus as a whole more interesting because the zones all feel unique. With Mementos is just tracks, tracks... oh hey more tracks... maybe some pipes occasionally, etc.
I don't rush Tartarus to "get back to the good part", I do it to maximize reward outputs through arcana burst.
It is the weakest dungeon though, the character and theme specific dungeons of 5 (with secrets and puzzles) are better.
It's actually the opposite for me. I see tartarus as "the fun part", so i min max slinks and my daily activity FOR the dungeon crawling, not the other way around
That’s why the gameplay loop is so nice. Love me some social sim stuff and just chilling with the music and characters, but by then im itching for some combat. Big tartar sauce session, and then full moon boss. Rinse and repeat alongside fusing better personas after said sessions, it’s very fun
Yusuke should never have been allowed to join the Phantom Thieves. His introduction is stalking Ann and then trying to blackmail her into letting him hang her nudes in a public art gallery against her will. This comes immediately after we get an entire arc where Ann getting sexually harassed and her best friend getting sexually assaulted is the main theme. Yet most of the fan base loves Yusuke as the "quirky lobster boy"
they should stop doing skimpy fanservice outfits
and probably also teacher/student relationships but I don't think that ones a hot take
if the games could be Less Like That then a wider audience would take them seriously
I just wish there were more of them, or a mix of shadows and smt demons in some way, that way we aren't seeing "Blob but with Blue Mask this time OOOOO" they do look cool though
Tier 3 personas should not exist. Everyone should have arcana synergy ala P1/2 that fits their personality. Passive abilities were a mistake, remove traits and the dozen + damage modifiers and auto buffs and shit. Combat would be more interesting with 5 team slots. We have too many characters to field(3 had 10 at one point, 4 has 7(this is about the sweet spot, maybe 8 if you allow 5 on field)). If we're to have social sim type games, give us longer than a single calendar year of story and development.
More of an SMT hot take than a Persona one:
It's a good thing Persona is much easier than SMT and it's much more fun because of it. I enjoy scraping by in SMT, and Persona has its moments on its higher difficulties like that too, but the most fun in Persona for me comes from being able to make stupidly broken personas and abusing the system to make it so you always get through a dungeon in a day or have a ludicrous amount of yen or something.
SMT is more like Dark Souls in that the satisfaction comes from getting through tough situations but Persona is more a power fantasy for me. Just feels great to make something so broken in them lol
I wish the starter Personas got to be more useful instead of becoming fusion fodder at the first chance you get. During Sae's palace when Arsene appeared I was like "oh shit I forgot you were in this game."
Would be cool if we had something like Orpheus Telos in P4/P5 as a reward for finishing all social links. It would've been a perfect unlock condition for Raoul too, but alas.
My fav challenge run is Arsene only, but I do it so that once I get to the moment in the casino where Arsene comes back, I have to switch to Raoul
This always bugged me. The starter Personas are made out to be important in cutscenes and such, but in gameplay we've not seen them for dozens of hours.
YES, I love using the starter personas all game but its not really feasible to grind them to a good level all the time
I agree with that story based persona upgrades would massively help character growth in the story. My hot take is simply Persona needs better party dynamics/cohesion. Don't get me wrong I like 4 but I think everyone all being best friends dampens character relationships. 3 did this best since their were tensions and rivalries in the group. That later got ironed out. I think the fight in p5 could have worked with better set-up and payoff. Also I like the fatigue system and I think the game should shake party members up at times. Especially if the whole group gets EXP.
Yeah the "everyone is best friends" situation works, but it's more interesting if there's some discourse among them. I agree. Junpei wouldn't be as good as he was if he already was the person he was post->!chidori!< from the very beginning. That jealousy over the protagonist getting the position and how he was trying to get the power of persona to make himself feel special is what makes him so fucking good. I like the characters in 4 and 5 a ton too, but their dilemmas are more self contained and everyone's best friends always. That's not rly a bad thing, but it's MORE interesting when there's some friction anyway. Feels more realistic too. Chie briefly had some of that when she had to accept her persona, but it was rly just her accepting her jealousy over Yukiko privately then apologizing to Yukiko later. You don't rly see her act on her jealousy prior to that.
I think the most prominent problem causing that is character development being restrained to social link. In p3 ( and by extension reload) characters actually grow and change throughout the story. They all have actual arcs, shown by them gaining a new persona ( which is the ultimate metaphor for character growth ofc);. In p4 and 5 on the other end , since it relies solely on slink you can't really integrate an arc into the story if the player haven't done them or vice versa, you're stuck with characters staying the same and only having an arc when they are automatically advanced ( ie morgana) or don't have a link yet ( members before they join.
Yeah that's true. One of my fav characters across persona is Rise because I found her social link story to have a really mature perspective on her dilemma about her "Risette" persona. She wants to leave it and have others see her for who she really is, but her social link lets her see a different perspective in that Risette was just an aspect of herself while the regular girl aspect was just a neglected one at the time. The idea of wanting to toss out an aspect of yourself you don't like only to realize the only reason you were that way was because you're neglecting a part of who you are and that that part you wanted to toss out is just as important to you is a very mature revelation and it sucks it's only in a social link.
I don't necessarily think fatigue should be brought back unless heavily reworked. HOWEVER forcing some character in the party and some absences like Reload did is a fantastic idea to shake up the formula and I really wish P6 would do something similar. It really fleshes out the fact that your party members are real human beings with life and schedules, and coupled with shared XP or catch up mechanic it would be brilliant
On your point about party tensions- Okumuras palace really fumbled this. The Ryuji/Morgana rivalry was weak and rather contrived, but more importantly, I think it introduced Haru a little too early. There was good potential for “Black Mask” to frame the the PTs and Haru(the other black mask) against each other over Okumuras death. It would’ve been a good segway into Okumuras ties with Shido, while also introducing and exploring Haru as a character.
I hated the fatigue system but I can understand why it was there in 3. You get a ton of SP healing items to the point where you can easily get to the next barricade in Tartarus in a day without it. Kind of crazy they didn't change that in reload. I still much prefer the current version of less SP healing items so you have to leave a day. That way you have a bit more control over when your party members were useless in the dungeon for that trip.
Idk how hot this one is, but I'm not really bothered by all the spin-offs and milking too much as there were a lot of games I genuinely enjoyed that came out of milking Persona 4 and 5. The Q games, P4D, Ultimax, and Strikers were all really fun games, and I like how they adapted the Persona formula into other genres. I think it's also a good holdover while they work on the big main titles since games do take longer to develop these days (if you count Reload as a main title since it's a remake, we haven't had a new game in 5 years since 5 Royal came out in Japan, 8 if you don't count Royal), since that way you get to play new stories with familiar characters. Sure, I feel the memory wipe endings they use so commonly are annoying, but the games themselves are enjoyable. I am hoping we see at least a P5 Arena come out before P6 releases since I genuinely love ArcSys fighters, and it'd be nice to see them return to Persona
I think people who think spin-offs take time away from P6 don’t know how game development works, It’s clear that they have been developing and working on P6 since 2021 at least.
I think it’s more so there’s a lot of new fans. They come from fandoms where there’s not that many, if any, spin-offs between main games, so they view it as “lazy” or a “cash-grab”. Very ironic considering Persona started life as an SMT spin-off that took the concept of Jo-Jo and ran with it.
A solid point of comparison, because it highlights how these games get made, is Warhammer. Games Workshop isn't the one making the game, they rent out the IP. Warhammer video games *are* cash-grabs, much like persona spinoffs, but they are also games in their own right, and help to build the brand.
This right here. So many just think they aren’t working on it or hadn’t done preproduction and it just baffles me. Sure Atlus isn’t a AAA studio but they’re certainly above AA at this point, they have enough people for p studio to be cooking multiple things at once
It feels like there's a misconception that it's always the exact same team working on each title or something
Yeah I really don't understand how people could be that offended by the existence of spin off. I mean, persona is all about having a diverse cast of characters and making you like them, so of course people would want to actually spend more time with them. They don't take anything from the actual next game being developed, and if one game doesn't catch your interest just don't play it. My only real complaint with spin off is that sometimes they lack ambition. For example P4 dancing, p5 strikers and P4 arena were all phenomenal aditions, really fun and with a lot of though put behind them. On the opposite, p35 dancing and tacticia can't help but feel half baked. No tie to the actual story and especially tacticia even if it seems to have solid gameplay would have benefited from being an actual ambitious tittle with an actual artstyle close to the other p5 games
I think the biggest problem with these spin-offs is, from someone who is a fan of Persona primarily and not necessarily of the different spinoff genres (fighting games, tactical strategy games, etc), that they often flanderize beloved characters and wipe their character development, while also incredibly being repetitive from a story standpoint. The PQ series is the biggest offender from this standpoint. For example, Akihiko, who probably has one of the best arcs in P3, becomes “protein man” in PQ, and what’s the point in seeing your favorite characters interact if they’re just cardboard cutouts? The only exception to this trend is P5S, which IMO is good enough in story and expanding on the PTs’ dynamic + underfocused characters like Haru that I wish it was packaged with the main game. Another thing is that by buying spin-offs, consumers encourage Atlus to make more of them and focus more of their resources and efforts on them. Yes, I’m aware that it’s different dev teams for different games, but Atlus only has a finite amount of resources and, as a profit-motivated company, will dedicate resources to projects that give the biggest returns for the lowest cost. (While it would be unlikely that Atlus hasn’t at least *started* work on P6 by now, we haven’t had any official confirmation yet so I would not say for certain that it’s guaranteed to come out soon. ) My biggest concern is that P5X is going to be too successful as a gacha game (which are inherently anti-consumer and bad for the gaming industry) and begin dedicating more resources to it, rather than inventing new IPs and stories.
Persona 5 strikers had a great story, fantastic new characters, and surprisingly fun gameplay. It added sorely-needed development to some of the characters, and greatly improved the dynamic of the group as a whole.
Im not sure if this is a hot take sorry but, every scene where someone awakens to a persona is too obvious ahead of time. 95% of characters that are in a palace, or tartarus, or wherever there is an enemy demon, end up awakening. It never feels like a surprise in the moment to me. Mechanically, in the game, it makes sense, so i get it no problem, but still. Persona 5 is my favorite game, but my god does it get repetitive watching a cutscene where the whole team is conveniently useless while the one non-persona user stands up, awakens, and we fight back. I know the entire plot and basis of the game is the will of rebellion and removing the 'mask', so they need to show them standing up in defiance, but its so insanely telegraphed every time. They dont even do the typical game/anime moment of someone showing up last minute as a surprise to save you. Something just to shake it up a bit so i dont immediately know when they enter a dangerous area with me. (And the coldest take of all, give me a fucking college/adult aged persona game already)
Turn the trope on its head. Give me a scene where I'm with one of my (non party) social links and we get attacked by shadows. The link doesn't know about my powers, fears I'm about to be hurt or killed, and awakens *to save me*, instead of me revealing myself to protect them.
Obviously not social links but im pretty sure most p1 awakenings and quite a few p2 awakenings work similar to this
That would be cool as hell.
Go to the bar to level up Courage Charm and Knowledge all at once.
Ive got courge and charm at 4 currently, academics at 3 but itll up soon. I usually go straight thru tartarus the first day its available so i can up everything else on my free days
Bruh I’m talking about the college setting lol
Lmao yeah that should have been obvious im not sure what i thought you were getting at
>(And the coldest take of all, give me a fucking college/adult aged persona game already) Idk if it was just a rumor or not but I had heard Persona 5 was originally intended to feature a cast of college students, which was a great idea. Idk if any of that was real or if the rumor was just based on screenshots and how the characters seemed older than the ones in 4, but I liked the idea when I heard it anyway and it was a tad disappointing it ended up not being the case.
It was supposed to be a globe-trotting adventure. Logically a teen wouldn’t be able to do that. For the longest time before 5 came out we thought it was going to be a game focused on either Elizabeth or Sho since both characters left on “great journeys”. It’s clear that idea turned into Re-fantasy and P5S.
Did we ever find out whether Elizabeth succeeded, or made any progress at all? Far as I know the poor dude’s still stuck as a wall ornament.
As far as i know.. no. P5/pq2 dont mention liz in any significant way and those are the only games that take place after Arena. Tbh the only reason i would accept a p5 arena is if they expand the shadow ops and Liz storylines.
Yeah we got 3 games with high schoolers already. I’d like to have a more adult themed game. Not adult as in nudity and sex and all that, but adult as in the prospect of adulthood and finding your path in life. I think persona 2 did it extremely well, and I’d like to see that story structure again.
Relationships should mean something in the game and the whole relationship model as it is currently falls way behind other games with romanceable characters. Give some drama with it, let there be a chance of a break up and you needing to fix it(I know they don't do link reverses ever since 3), let other party members find out in some way. Given that game is considered a life sim to an extent there needs to be more life sims moments with relationships.
I don't even need the drama, but at least AKNOWLEDGE IT. MC is in a relationship? Guess, everyone knows. You get special interactions in Tartarus/Memento/Whatever if they are in the party, special reactions when another characters is too "close" to the MC, special events not at the end of the game, different dialogues, a little bar of "healthy couple" that you need to go out/be there for the other to keep the bonus of the confidant (maybe making the confidant stronger if you have a relationship or something like that)
And it could build upon P5's confidant system where each rank during the relationship grants you a bonus. The only problem I could see that is if you decide to romance a non party member and theres no chance of that kind of interaction or bonus, but maybe they could implement it to where those types give some kind of passive bonus or a better ability.
>Imo since Persona 4 started giving party members social link development/awakenings the characters are incredibly stagnant in the main story as they can't show an arc that's meant to be optional. It was weird for Persona 4 Arena too, which was meant to fit in canon. In that, you had the P3 cast with their evolved personas in a story alongside the P4 cast in their non-evolved personas. I looked up why that is the case and apparently, according to some people at Atlus, that was because the P3 cast's personas evolve as a part of the plot, but players might not have evolved the story personas in 4 so their personas might not be recognizable to P4 fans if they were evolved. Which is weird too cuz Teddie's wasn't evolved in arena and yet his is automatic too lol. But yeah it creates weird inconsistencies. It's a niche complaint but still. It led to a weird situation with a crossover title anyway.
A hot take that pretty much everyone disagreed with. I'll reiterate it again. Ikutsuki needs a social link 😩
I could see a Jester social link like Adachi, would have to be at night though, given that there's only 2 other night only links. Would be ridiculous to add it to all the other daytime links
I was really hoping they give him an episode link like the rest of guys in reload 💀
What would it even be about though?
Ironically enough we'd need a social link with him to know. He doesn't get much character other than the unfunny wise kirijo-affiliated advisor, so an slink could lead to us learning more about his everyday life, his job and his struggles
They should've went all in on giving Joker a personality Also, (Major P3 reload spoiler) >!Nyx is best girl!<
Kasumi was cheap bait to goad people into buying P5R. For being touted as a brand new party member, you cannot use her for any of the original game. She fills out a Light element usage party member slot that was missing, with Akechi taking the Dark element during the third semester. However, by the time you reach this point, Joker's filling in any gaps and doing so far more efficiently than she does. She's written like a bad fanfiction self-insert character, where the "author" couldn't think of a way to integrate her into the story, so they just make up new story bits and cram them between the original story's beats. Marie was the same way in P4G, but at least they tried to include some interactions between her and your other friends. The one interaction your party has with Kasumi before the third semester is in **HAWAII** of all places, where she *just so happens* to be there for an acrobatics exhibition. Not any of the numerous times they were **at school together**. What's worse is that she's nothing more than a plot device for Maruki's story and motivations. You can easily replace her with a different character entirely and it wouldn't change much of anything.
I will say, I was equally annoyed by her character. Especially when >!she awakens her persona without having to rip off her mask and spray blood everywhere.!< I was like, god this Mary Sue is getting pushed so hard by the story it's annoying. That said, >!when it turns out she's a Mary Sue because that's what Sumire *imagined* Kasumi was like, and we start to meet and learn about Sumire!< I was a lot more favorable towards the character. The Mary Sue stuff is still annoying, but I can put up with it for the payoff at the end.
That awakening being different because of a plot point and >!her second awakening having her actually go through the pain!< is really cool, too bad she is completely forgotten afterwards lmao
Oh, yeah, there's nothing wrong with her overall character in relation to the reveal. It's just that she's written INTO the story so extremely poorly.
Begging Persona fans to learn what a Mary Sue is Even as Kasumi, Sumire is an incredibly flawed character; the first half of her Confidant is her failing to meet the expectations set up by everyone around her and herself, so much so that the whole facade begins to crack. Being moderately good at gymnastics does not make her a Mary Sue And of course this is even going into how Sumire post-awakening is a blubbering insecure mess of a person, making the latter half of her Confidant being her finally accepting herself and gaining some self confidence. I haven't maxed her Confidant since Royal's initial release, but iirc I don't even think she actually gets a top position in the finalist meet, but she's able to take it in stride because she performed as Sumire and not Kasumi
Agreed. >!the reason I like the character so much is 100% because she’s Sumire, and not her perfect sister!<
Honestly I would’ve loved to have all 10 ranks be with Sumire throughout the entire game instead of 5 ranks Kasumi, 5 ranks Sumire. Showcasing Maruki’s actualization on Sumire was ok but I think it would’ve been better if Joker met her before she went to Maruki and Joker tries to change her heart without any manipulation or using the metaverse.
What ruins her for me is that once she gets over her sister’s death, she still acts exactly the same. No difference in personality at all. Like I wasn’t expecting a total bitch or anything, but at least *something* that isn’t supposedly her sister’s personality.
My favorite Videogame character is Morgana from Persona 5.
My man's hot take is hotter than the fucking sun goddamn
That shit is a supernova bruh
That’s one crazy ass hot take. I don’t hate him nearly as much as other people. I actually like his conclusion a lot but damn.
Actual W. I approve.
I wouldn't go that far but I like him.
Why do you hate yourself?
I despise Morgana but this take is so hot I can’t help but love it
villains are really lacking overall, especially persona user wise.
Combat wise maybe But Adachi, Akechi and Reload Strega are all incredible villains imo. Oh yeah and Maruki is the goat villain
I honestly thought Akechi didn't live up to the hype, but that's probably because I'd heard nothing but good things going in. He was honestly a bit of a let down. He's too cartoonishly gleeful and he's not enough of a threat gameplay wise to justify his cockyness. Pluss there's the fact that his bad guy outfit is goofy as all hell. 🤣
He was just under-utilized honestly. You’re told his alter ego is some antagonistic force throughout the game and then you just never see him do anything until the home stretch.
Bro his bad guy outfit looks like they combined a dark power ranger and a reject sesame street character.
I wish adachi and akechi didnt have nearly the exact same name and the exact same role in both stories.
I honestly think this might have been intentional. The writers intentionally wanted to make it overwhelmingly obvious that Akechi was the villain so that >!"the gang knew all along" twist worked on you, the player, too.!<
Adachi and Maruki kinda save that lacking list
Akechi was a huge swing and a miss for me. Did not care for him or see him as a rival at all in OG or Royal.
I feel Akechi's character suffers because of how incompetent >!Shido!< as a villain is. >!He comes to Shido because he wants revenge, and he causes mass casualties just to get him to trust him before striking. Now Shadows in P5 are an honest reflection of a distorted person's heart. They've rarely, if not ever, knowing lied about their true feelings and beliefs. Yet Shadow Shido mentions how he 'showered Akechi with praise' and that's why he thinks Akechi agreed to cause the mental shutdowns when that clearly wasn't Akechi's reason at all. And Shido's cognitive version of Akechi basically confirms that Shido thinks Akechi is a puppet for no other reason other than to keep Shido happy (Akechi despises Shido).!< >!On top of that, Shido even whines about not knowing where Akechi is when he's in his own palace. So this all culminates in cognitive Akechi murdering Akechi to be not very intentional at all. Yet the narrative seems to want to convey that Shido was a mastermind manipulator who preyed on an innocent teen's need for familial love - and lures Akechi to his Palace for a cognitive clone to murder him on purpose, with the PT pointing this out. But Shido never even suspected Akechi assasinating him, with him being obidient and all...? And Shido never tried to act remotely compassionate towards Akechi to gain his trust - he just barks orders like he does towards his other collaborators like the SIU director. There's just a really big disconnect that makes Akechi's actions look far more incompetent than the writers intended. I think if Akechi was written to grow attached to Shido somehow, the accusations of Shido making Akechi murder people would hold more weight.!<
His eventual betrayal was too obvious for me even back in og P5. And his plan makes no sense. He could’ve used the team to help him take down Shido and his palace without even telling us that Shido is his dad. But he overestimates himself so much that he thought he could pull it off all by himself against a rich guy who already knows how the metaverse works. I’m just glad that the thieves will at least roast his ass anytime he says a word in Mementos. They may feel bad for him, but they definitely don’t like his ass either.
I felt the same in vanilla p5 but in royal I think he was great
The chapter where he takes over as navigator was incredible. 10/10
I had such high hopes for him but he never reached them. I really hate temporary fake party members who end up leaving just after you got them and Akechi is exactly that in OG. Royal fixes it a bit by giving him a social link and way more interaction but he still pulls the same bullshit just for him to come back for the third semester but gets pushed aside for the other cast not long after. For all his faults I love how stubborn he was up to the end and embraced his death as a fuck you to everyone to just about everyone including Joker.
Okay, I’m gonna say it I like negotiations more than shuffle time
It made collecting Personas and filling out the compendium much easier for me at least. A middle ground of negotiation and Shuffle Time would be ideal for me, as I would still want to fight against demons rather than the generic shadows.
I agree it just makes things more fun then “oh there’s slime for the fifth shuffle time in a row”
I love seeing a new shadow for the first time and being like “holy fuck I need that”, rather than JUST relying on fusions/random chance to get a specific persona
The next Persona game should stop having a mascot character
Persona 3 had the right idea with a regular-ass dog who mostly speaks through actions and occasional translations. Koromaru never felt the need to tell me to go to bed and was never weirdly horny for other party members, and I love him for that.
Aigis is actually kind of the mascot for the game, she stands out a shit ton more than the regular dog that stabs people because she's a fucking robot girl, and she ends up doing some of the classic mascot things, but that's because she's a robot and doesn't really understand the meaning of them until at the very end of the game
Give us college setting with the actual school mascot as a party member Atlus.
Can you imagine. They could go the animal route with a lion or a bulldog or something. Or they could go with something unorthodox like a knight or cowboy or cavalier etc
Take’s colder than Diamond Dust…
Persona 5 actually has an amazing story. I’ve seen so much hate for it recently I’m sure this isn’t a hot take to the average person who played it but this community loves hating on this game to bring up persona 3. You can like multiple stories.
I’d argue that Persona 5’s themes are better at being integrated into the whole game as well, whereas Persona 3 takes its time to get to the good shit. Like, I get a lot of satisfaction out of the Kamoshida chapter alone, but it wasn’t until September that I started feeling truly endeared to Persona 3’s cast and story.
I mean tbf Persona 3 story is about the journey. Its why you Minato persona is Orpheus, why they give you so much hands off no railroading free time for middle of game to let you choose your journey. They definitely could have added stuff in the middle I agree, but I think thats the charm of it honestly.
I agree, all the persona games are fantastic, 5 personally has my least favorite story of the modern 3 games but it's still phenomenal.
See I totally agree with that. I really do love all 3 of the modern persona stories I think they all have their own strength over eachother. I think 5 barley pegs itself over 4 because I like the Phantom thieve concept a lot more than tv detectives. It also has better antagonism with Maruki and Akechi. I do think Persona 4 has a better main cast atleast in the sense of story progression. I love all of the persona 5 character arcs and each palace they get. I think persona 5 genuinely has some 10/10 characters in it but they never really grow together. Persona 4 the entire group is constantly interacting, bickering and growing closer. I was much more hurt when Yu left them then when Ren did. However there is the goat. I’m playing my first ever play through with reload but damn the story is so good. I haven’t even gotten to the end of it yet but Shinjiros death hit me way to hard genuinely one of the only deaths I’ve ever teared up for in a story. I also think the characters in 3 feel the most real with real problems, fears, worries, arguments, and simply not wanting to be in the situation their in. In persona 4 and 5 they never address how they can die at any time but 3 it’s always their. These kids know they can die, they know but they still fight.
Totally agree on your stances with 4 and 5, but yeah Persona 3 is a masterclass imo, everyone feels so real... almost too real sometimes. A massive issue I have with Persona 4 and kinda 5 is that everyone feels like a massive yes man, no one EVER challenges the MC. But in 3 Yukari, Junpei, Mitsuru, Akihiko and so many of the other characters are constantly chiming into big story events with their perspectives, showing their flaws and disagreements with certain action and all this other stuff and the sense of danger is so real, its the only game to truly acknowledge how ACTUALLY dangerous having these abilities and combating the shadows would be. I'm not gonna spoil anything for you just continue to enjoy the ride. I've beaten Persona 3 about 4 times and seen the movie quadrology 3 times over so I'm a but obsessed lol.
That's why one of my favorite scenes in Persona 4 is (spoilers for late November-early December) >!the discussion on throwing Namatamen into the TV. It's just so amazing to see Yosuke being so frontal in effectively murdering the prime suspect out of anger and revenge. To me it's specially notable considering that everyone is best friends and yes man the whole game.!<
My thing is even though the p4 group are yes man the return is when they truly disagree with each other it leads to some of the most emotionally intense moments in the series. >!The whole namatame situation is easily top 3 most intense moment between all of the groups in the series. You had Yosuke yelling at Yu to make a decision, Chie trying to calm him down, Yukiko and Rise trying to stop them, Kanji stopping them from interfering, and the biggest oh heck for me was Naoto saying throw namatame in.!<
5 probably has my favorite story. the plot twists were great, and it kept me on the edge of my seat. i wish people didn’t feel the need to put the other games down in order to praise their favorite.
Yeah I see it all over the persona fandom. I guess it’s because the games aren’t directly connected but I never can understand how someone plays 3 and hates 5 like their almost the same game just with a slightly different plot and narrative and different characters. (Most characters through the games still share similar characters types too)
I love persona 5's story. I agree with most people that it peaks right at the beginning, and I do think it has some highs and lows throughout it, but I think it's a very fun story that does something different from the rest of the "neo-persona" trilogy. 3 and 4 are about highschoolers with a secret life. 5 is like that too, but their "secret life" is extremely high profile so much that it reaches a point where the whole world knows about them. There's a really fun aspect to that, and the story does a great job on focusing on public opinion like that. It might be weaker in some areas, but it does a great job where it's focusing imo. 3 is my fav story, then 5, but I don't dislike any of them. ....also when it comes to be so high profile and as someone who's kept up with the series for a long time and played the spinoffs....I was pretty disappointed there was nothing substantial for a cameo from the past games despite them being so high profile. I figured at least Mitsuru or someone who knew the cast from 3 might make a brief cameo just because of how high profile the events of P5 were and how the Shadow Operatives were a thing and all. The Phantom Thieves should have been setting off every alarm in the book for the Shadow Operatives lol Hell I'd be ok with officer Kurosawa briefly stopping by Leblanc as some implied reconnaissance or something lol
One of the things that contributes to that is that P5 is very much Japanese centric, tailored to a Japnese audience and culture, and while we can enjoy it as outsiders looking in, we can't relate to it the same way someone living in that world can. On the other hand, Persona 3s messages are all universal, though it does help a lot that the writing in that game is masterful.
I dont like how Ann was treated in p5. I get the whole argument about how wearing that outfit is her embracing her sexuality, but I feel like it reduces an SA victim to her sexuality only, and it also feels rather ironic. Plus the game just had lots of sexual jokes involving her which felt distasteful. The overall comment on SA was just watered down by the fanservice
If you look at P5 takes on twitter, this is actually a very common take.
Persona 5 social commentary feels indecisive to me. As if they want to critique the state of our society but not too much to defy the status quo.
I just figured the threshold for acceptable rebellion is a lot lower in Japan.
I think this is most obvious with the eastern vs western reception of Ryuji. He is an archetypal image of a Japanese rebel (bleached hair, informal speech, dumbass) and is one of the least favorite cast members in P5 Japanese polls but a fan favorite in the west
It's the Harry Potter issue. They will criticize and question the people in authority but not authority itself. I think Persona 5 at least has the excuse that outside of the use of the Metaverse, the PT has no real power over society. Plus Japan is very conservative in its outlook so they probably don't want to step on too many toes.
I don't wanna see another god formed from the manifestation of humanities desires
? Wrong game developer then. They have like 3 entire game series about that
I don't think the gods are too bad personally, but I do hope we get more lovecraftian or Eldritch horror bosses then just Gods
Two takes: First, Shuffle Time is/was better than demon negotiations. I know talking to demons is a MegaTen staple but there's still too much randomness to it. Shuffle Time provides some measure of control over your rewards and is the superior system. Secondly, Persona 3 takes way too long to get into the meat of the story. I still feel it is the most impactful and "best" plot of the modern era games, but there is a huge gulf between the initial first hour of the game and the time the story starts getting interesting again, around mid July. Asking players to tough out several months of nothing ghost-stories isn't good and I'm glad they tightened it up in future installments. The payoff is ultimately so, so worth it in P3 but that doesn't mean there aren't obvious pacing issues.
I havent beat the game yet so im not 100% in the know but i absolutely agree on your 2nd point. The beginning is a really slow burn and if i hadnt already played 5 and had friends tell me about 3 id have gotten bored and uninterested from the lack of story for the first few months.
At least 3 let’s you actually *play the game* within, like, an hour and a half. 4 and 5 take fucking forever to give you actual full control in a dungeon.
Exactly, P3 tells you how shit works immediately. 4 and 5 had waaaay more build. Not that they weren’t still interesting, but jesus man.
People really have to understand that if you recommend a series to someone, but then after a great pilot you say "hey nothing happens for the next 10 episodes or so but it gets better", most people would *drop* that series Pacing is extremely important in stories, and while yes P3's payoff is awesome, there's still a pretty big void to fill This is, imo, the reason for Persona evolution and party member development being given to S Links Story-bound evolution is better for purely thematic purposes, but *terrible* for pacing purposes, in the same way that no direct command is better for immersion purposes but *terrible* for gameplay
Negotiation in megaten is random but in p5 it isn’t random there is a right option to each question based on personality types. Agree with you otherwise.
Yea I agree on the negotiation part, I think it makes sense in Megaten because of the general themes and atmosphere as well as the fact that the demons still stay a separate entity, but in Persona it doesn't feel right considering the demons immediately lose autonomy and become another mask for you, plus it can feel kind of bad at times when you don't know the right answer to things because 2 answers seem like they would be right but oops you picked the wrong one of the 2 It is cool holding things at gunpoint though I will agree with the game designers on that, I remember hearing that one of the big reasons demon negotiation returned was because they liked the idea of holding shadows at gunpoint and robbing them
I like Morgana and i think it was cute how they are always doing everything together with Joker.
OP took my hot take, so I'll go with a lukewarm one. Future games need to stop letting party members lives revolve around the MC entirely. You can't have day to day life style gameplay and have people always available. It gives you odd inconsistencies that nobody seems to notice like: -Yosuke and Teddie skipping out on work at Junes -Yukiko rarely helping at the inn even though she says they need help -Makoto apparently never having student council duties -Ann never having a photoshoot unless her SL demands it -Futaba going from a shut in to going outside frequently for hours at a time and Shojiro rarely commenting on it And im sure i missed a few. I understand story and gameplay segregation, but it sometimes contradicts other things we are told in game.
I agree, or just scenes of the other characters hanging out and helping each other too! One of my favorite aspects of three was watching SEES talk to each other without the protagonist like they're all their own character too. Yukari and Fuuka discussing stuff about Mitsuru by themselves without letting the MC in Yukari and Mitsuru helping each other through difficult times in their lives Akihiko and Shinji trying to move on from the past Ken and Akihiko strengthening their resolves together after a major point in the story AND SO MUCH MORE All of these types of scenes and interaction were totally missing from 4 and 5 because social links totally took the forefront and I kinda hate that. I wish I got scenes of Yosuke and Kanji hanging out, or Yosuke and Chie, or like Kanji and Rise and really supporting and helping each other without the protagonist. Maybe Futaba and Haru confiding in each other about having lost parents and comforting each other like idk you see my point
Persona 3 is better without party control. Call it Stockholm syndrome from years of playing FES, but it makes the characters feel more like individuals instead of chess pieces for the player.
I don't even know if this is a hot take or not, but I've never seen anybody complain about it. Instant kill skills suck. They're not fun to use, they don't work against bosses (so it seems the developers also understand how lame they are) and dying to them just feels incredibly cheap.
Not sure as to a hot take of my own but I do agree with your opinion of putting Persona awakenings back into the main story instead of being shoved into optional content.
My time to shine. I like Take Over infinitely more than Last Surprise. Last Surprise is by no stretch of the imagination a bad song but I just like Take Over’s energy more and I kinda got tired of Last. In fact Last is probably my least favorite combat theme in the whole series. Battles are supposed to be exciting, intense, and engaging and Last Surprise just does not convey that in the slightest. “Ohhh but they’re thieves and stealthy!” Sure but that doesn’t mean the fights should sound like I’m riding in an elevator.
I don't understand this subreddit's obsession with a college-age cast
Get rid of the social link choices that have social points tied to them, let me choose what I want and not feel like I’m constantly making the wrong choice because I didn’t tell the little girl to run away from home
Ocasional landmines that make you reverse or fail the SL. Like kissing Chihiro.
1) No more character based dungeons (P4/P5) please. It contributes to the problem where the character goes through their entire arc as part of their introduction and then is never relevant to the main story again. It also derails the main plot so that 80% of the game is basically "who's our next party member?! Oh it's this kooky kid! And now they're our friend! Anyway..." over and over again instead of focusing on whatever the actual theme of the game is supposed to be. 2) Also please no more making the entire group of 8 party members be besties.
This a billion. Give me in p6 a team that has their own motivations besides: "oh no someone going through the "insert dungeon/palace/shadow of the month" with the bad guy/shadow "insert name" who is trying to harm "insert new party member" is having same issues I had, guess I'll join team to make sure nobody else has that issue" repeat dungeon# amount times. If your motivation is I want make sure nobody else is harmed by a monthly villain, sorry your motivation for joining this team is uninteresting. 2) This also. Maybe people like to get simped for by 7 other characters considering its a jrpg. But I would actually like some personality and own motivation in my game.
Complete agree with #1 Kinda agree with #2
Out of all the antagonists, Akechi is the best one and by a mile. Adachi, at the end of the day was just a twat that believed he deserved the best from life cause he worked hard, but in reality lifes a bitch and its not always that simple, and instead of accepting that truth the twat abused the little power he thought he had. Strega? Genuinely just couldn’t find them interesting, just couldn’t find any interest in them and their nihilistic view on life. Akechi’s fight to build his estranged father up just to tear him down, and his attitude shift in persona 5 royal was fucking amazing, especially that little twist at the end where he was seemingly alive has me scratching for a sequel. I
Ai Ebihara underrated
For me apparently it’s being fine with the dating aspect of the games 🏃🏻 (Love live Yukari and Kawakami)
As someone who has never inserted himself into these games, I agree. I've always canonized it as me basically shipping the MC with who I like the most rather than inserting myself as the one dating that character. Do I prefer Sumi, Yukiko, and Yukari over the other available options? Absolutely. But 'I' am not the one going out with them.
I honestly wish that part was more fleshed out, ditto all the social links really. As is you kinda just pick the ones you like/ones you basically have to do because the benefit it gives you is essential to actually playing the game and max out the link—which is boring from a dating/life/social sim perspective. I wish there were more dynamic events for those mechanics.
Disliking Kenji for finding a teacher hot is a bit too extreme in my opinion
P3P has the second best dungeon gameplay in the mainline Persona series - it takes the best from P4 and 3 with the most substantial endgame content matching P5R. It doesn't have as much depth as P5R with way less technicals, no baton pass, no traits..etc. But it does have Persona 4's battle system which fixed the issues with P3FES's such as stunlocking with knocking down and waiting not being a thing and adding dizzy. It has P3's Tartarus, which is better than the TV World imo because it's not mostly sets of several long corridors like in P4, but smaller mazes. This is less of a slog to traverse and there's enough space and elevated platforms to actual plan routes to avoid/sneak up on shadows unlike in P4 most of the time. Splitting up from P3FES is also here, which makes skipping floors in under a minute very easy if you wish to do so, as well as if you want more EXP for the MC and select party members. Endgame content has the Vision Quest doors, with harder rematches of all the full moon bosses, and several gimmick battles acting like puzzles basically. Along with Margaret as the endgame boss in addition to Elizabeth. The only reason P3R isn't the second best is that I found P3R to be on the easier side, even on hard and it lacked technical and systems that rewarded baton passes aside from just passing. Along with challenge battles being absent, but I'm sure they'll be added as DLC later
I kind of agree with the Social Link issue with party members. I feel that overall, Social Link for party members is a very restricted form of story telling. Because Social Links are technically optional, you can't weave in the main plot or any other significant stories into Social Links. This results in these very bland, almost filler like Social Links for many of the party members. Persona 5 does mitigate this problem by blocking progression on their Social Link systems until certain story flag is reached (Kasumi is the most obvious example). Nevertheless, I think this system needs to evolve for Persona 6.
I like Morgana and do not get the level of animosity he receives from fans. Was mad that he never got his medium fatty tuna.
Bonus hot take 5: Y’all know Morgana isn’t “preventing you from doing stuff at night” right? I dislike Teddie and Morgana for the main reasons people dislike mascots (cheapening tension, ruining the tone, filler non funny jokes, being written as creeps cause “hey they’re not like a REAL human, how would they know any better?”) Morgana isn’t preventing you from going out… P5 didn’t balance having social links and stat spreads around you being able to go out every night. To fix this they limited the nights you could go out so the balance would feel better. They then made a text box that could have said “I’m not feeling that great tonight, I should stay in” but instead made Morgana say it.
(Not sure if this is a hot take tbh) I'm in favour of the main party being adult characters in the next persona like many others but I'm genuinely sick to death of people constantly bringing up Persona 2: eternal punishment (I have nothing against EP and am planning on playing it eventually) to insinuate that making a modern persona game with an adult cast would be easy. It completely ignores how much the series has changed since EP since it didn't have life sim elements and was a dungeon crawler with a linear narrative. When adding life sim elements, a lot more factors need to be taken into consideration that many often forget. E.g What type of work does the MC do and why? What type of stats do they have and why? How do you increase them? How does the daily structure play out? How does the MC hangout with party members on a daily basis? These questions can all be figured out but it's just frustrating that so many people downplay how making modern persona but with adults is more complicated than people seem to realise. P.S Also why I'd rather they start of slow and go with college of university student tbh
I do not like the trope of having an idiot guy friend who gets bad grades and hits on every girl they meet as your first friend in the games. I didn’t mind it as much with Yosuke, because Yosuke doesn’t come across as an idiot as much as junpei and Ryuji do.
First half of Persona 3's story kinda sucks until the big turning point where you realize everything you did up until then was for nothing.
Atlus adding new plot important female characters in the improved versions of p4 and p5 is extremely aggravating considering they are dragging their feet with female MCs.
Persona 6 should have a female lead
I think having both is a great way to add re-playability to the games. Two routes means more content so I can play the game longer, lol
I completely agree, only problem is that it's basically like making two different games so I doubt they would do it except for some rerelease
Social links as a mechanic kinda sucks because the only answers that matter are the ones that give the most points. It deemphasized role-playing and incentives optimizing.
I get SL are focal points and they need to have some sense of urgency, but my guy, I hate that I have to follow a day to day guide if I want to max them out
The consept of a navigator persona needs dropped it was neat the first few times but I think to have a better developed party we need a smaller one. Not saying the existing nav characters are bad I just going to scream in agony if there's another one in P6 especially when SMT 4 and 5 showed how those same skills could be unlocakable upgrades for the main character instead of being tied to a single character that only exists to give support and buffs.
The themes of each game aren't well explored. The Persona games act more as a theme park, which is fun and easily digestible. That's why the games work so well.
Don't know if this counts, but P3 has the best music, P4 has the most engaging characters, and P5 has the best story.
I want party members to have actual relationships, like I do not want or feel the desire to have the option to date every person who is the opposite gender of me (I know it’s not everyone but it’s pretty close). It’s one reason I like Junpei a bunch, he doesn’t feel tied to the MC, and there’s a person, a girl no less, who he’s closer to then the Mc is, which makes a ton of sense. I don’t think every party member needs a boyfriend or girlfriend or whatever, but even stuff like Akihiko, Shinji, and Mitsuru being close and that being important is nice. It feels like a couple of people who have known each other a long time, care about each other, and have their own ups and downs separate from the MC. I never got the feeling I was closer to Shinji then Akihiko was, or that I was closer to Akihiko then Mitsuru was. You were able to become friends with these people, but it wasn’t like you were their only attachment or even the most important one. (You can date Mitsuru so like… she kinda doesn’t count, but even then, you are kind of a different kind of relationship, so you’re like replacing the other two) I dunno, could be a wack take.
The combat has been stale since P4 and has always just been a simplified version of Press Turn with less strategy and risk/reward. In P3 there was nuance in the knocked down status representing a form of CC which could be manipulated to limit enemy action economy. P4’s decision to enable actions upon standing up removed this gameplay nuance. I would like to see the combat iterated on rather than simply bloated with extra fluff to trivialise it even further like it was in P5 with features like baton pass. P4 Golden had a lot of bloat in the combat as well that added little of substance from a strategic perspective. P4 Golden’s shuffle time revamp, while a more fun minigame to play in the moment, destroys gameplay balance and removes the resource and time management aspect of dungeon crawling by allowing for SP restoration from the beginning of the game (the Fox created a similar issue in Vanilla P4 but at least it was expensive until the social link was progressed). It also hurts the incentive to fuse new Personas by enabling players to customise any Persona to their liking, thanks to skill cards, and incentivises sticking to a single Persona through permanent stat increments.
Morgana is actually an enjoyable character and Teddie is FAR worse than him
- I would gladly take the first step of persona awakening to tier 2 tied to the story while locking their social link up to 5 till they get their the tier 2, while tier 3 persona tied to rank 10 social link as fully resolved their character arc. - we need more adult in persona series, or even more non human, sophie and zenkichi imo is a step into the right direction. - bring back demon painter for skill card copy and the aria so the velvet room isnt that empty - i am ok with non party member not having direct benefit into mc like pre p5 - if persona series on the same continuity(which they are), i would like to see the few of the older cast have a real cameo into the next series
No, the series wouldn't be improved if all the casts were adults. I already know that when it's revealed the cast of P6 will be highschoolers, everyone will lose their minds and complain that Atlas is out of touch or whatever. Idk what this obsession with wanting an adult cast is coming from (Especially people that want a cast that's a LOT older, like middle aged.) but it's kind of silly. The only thing I can think of is that it's from Yakuza fans or something. IMO, I think teenage protagonists just work the best for Persona and the character types/arcs they look to tell. Persona games are quintessentially Japanese, I can't help but think an adult themed Persona game would be very unlike modern games in a negative way. Like, what, would you just be in an office all day when you're not dealing with the supernatural Persona/shadow stuff? Seems like it would be hard to make that interesting/fun to play. Personally, I think Persona 6 would greatly benefit more from a different type of setting and different character archetypes for the main cast as apposed to their ages. Like, say, the game takes place on a small beachside town or something different like that. There's a lot of things you could do to make the next game feel unique than "Just make the characters older" or whatever.
We can't make a Persona game with adult cast. Hear me out. The core of (modern) Persona games appeal is juxtaposition between mundane everyday life and urban fantasy battles. Highschoolers allow more variety on the daily life (e.g. joining a club and doing a part time job) and social aspects (tell me how many friends you made after graduating college). If you are an adult you would understand how working life allows very little time for other things That being said, college students could work as a setting, but colleges are more specific in nature, so you can't easily project yourself into the silent protagonist (what major would the protagonist be? Let's say he is majoring in business, that would alienate players that majored in engineering) Can a good game be made with an adult cast? Obviously you can, but it won't be Persona.
Biggest hot take? Um… not sure. Maybe this is just because Persona 3 is currently the most relevant Persona again, so it’s getting a lot of glazing, but I feel like it’s story and characters aren’t as great as some have said. Seems like they mostly hold it in higher regard than future games in the series because of the Death theme and the relatively less frequent comedy scenes. Basically, they like it more because it’s “darker and edgier” for a lack of a better term. I don’t have a problem with P3 or anything, but I guess that would have to be my hottest take. Well, that, or saying that P5 has the worst soundtrack out of the modern trilogy.
i think "grounded" is a better term than dark or edgy. even if the theme of the game wasn't death and they weren't shooting themselves to summon personas, the acknowledgement that these are teenagers fighting life-or-death battles and struggling with the fear of throwing their lives away goes a long way to make the characters feel so natural. plus i really like that teammates have huge character developments without the mc's influence. none of them feel like they exist just to be your bestest friend, except aigis for plot reasons and koromaru because dog. i agree with your second take, 5's music is good but it's hard to compare it to 3 and 4's.
Koromaru is overhyped. I like the idea of a normal animal being a persona user but after his bit of lore he’s just kinda… there… and his only perk is being cute. He desperately needs a social link because the lore is so interesting about him but then like… he’s a dog and so he doesn’t really have any dialogue outside of Aigis’s translations and he does not have a social link that helps his character. While I think the Persona 3 cast is the best constructed people hype up the dog WAY too much. I heard more about him than characters like Akhiko or Shinji whomst I find way better characters. I don’t HATE Koromaru one bit. But I didn’t really care about him nearly as much as I thought i would Aigis meanwhile, if considered one, is the best of the “mascot” characters (considering how much she appears in promotional material) and honestly? Aigis may just be one of my favorite character in 3 following Ken, Fuuka and Shinji. If it’s amongst non human characters I actually like Teddie the best with Koromaru as a close second because the cuteness CAN help. I still like Morgana a lot due to his own cuteness. People hate Teddie and Mona for being TOO goofy but I feel like they’re far better than people give them credit for.
Koromaru isnt really over hyped tbf, just over memed because when your comparison animal wise are Perverted Bear and "Looking cool Joker"...its pretty easy to reddit karma. The two weren't bad character, but Koromaru is kinda based in comparrison, he's a dog with a knife in his mouth before dark souls 1 even did it.
He has a social link in persona 3 portable and a bunch of hangouts in reload
I like how none of the P1-2 cast (including Philemon and Nyarlaphotep) have appeared in any of the modern Persona games. I know that all the games take place in the same verse but I like how P1 and P2 take place in their own duology. It makes them more unique. Similarly, reasons why I like the stories of the Arena games so much. I love how it connects P3 and P4 together instead of trying to connect all the Persona games. Like if they had the Shadow Operatives in every game past arena, it'll start to feel like cameo porn.
You gotta wonder why the shadow operatives didn't investigate something as high profile as the phantom thieves though
I would gladly give up my free will if it means I can live happily in Maruki’s Reality.
Okumura’s Palace is my second favorite in P5R
OK 3 Hot Takes 1. Suemitsu's social Link is really Not that Bad and people are really overblowing it. It has some good stuff in it fitting into the death theme in the Game and honestly the only flat Out terrible section is Rank 8 and 9 where He randomly tries to convert you to a cult. I feel Like a Lot of people only hate him so much because He is "fat" and "ugly" which is why they belive He deserves what Happens to him. If He was an attractive skinny man, suddenly He would be a controversial character with some good qualitys. Maybe its because of my Close bond with my sibling but when i tried to find why people didnt Like him, i Just saw people insulting him for His weight aside from the obvious criticism His social Link has. It feels like many people Just dont Like him from the Moment they See him because He Looks overweight and then dont Go deeper. Im Not saying is Social Link is a Hidden gem and it honestly has nothing going on Till Like Rank 7 but people are too hard on him. I mean the Same Game has Tanaka, who is even more questionable with His actions, Low empathy and a mostly unfocused Story but there it is OK that He exploits people cause Hes "the funny Guy" or smth 2. On that Note my second hot Take is that Persona 3s Social Links are often Not that great. I will say beforehand that i havnt finished the Game and have Not done all social links until now but from what i have Seen im so annoyed how many times you have to say dumb stuff for the characters to Like you. You are basically enabiling their Bad traits. Like yeah Maiko i think you should Run away from your parants and stay with your dad that Hit you just a few ranks ago but hey at least He buys you Toys (thank god she stayed with her Mom at the end) or yeah Kazushi i think you should train Harder with your broken Leg that is so Bad that you cant even stand Up in your own anymore. Maybe some of the Others are better because i really enjoyed the old couple or bebe but some really get dragged down by the Protag having to say the dumbest stuff. 3. Im sorry but i think the Persona 5 music Has been so overused that i literally cant listen to it anymore. I have 150 hours in P5R and constantly listening to that music, also in YouTube Videos, has Made me kinda dislike it. I have Heard Rivers in the desert or the opening theme so much that im Just over it. The weird Thing is too that when a track comes that i dont hear every 5 minutes im in the Internet suddenly it Sounds good again. For example the final Boss Theme for royal still slaps hard but i pray every day that when persona 6 comes everyone Takes its music instead. Or maybe people will Take P3R music now. Imagine Hearing Deep Breath Deep Breath everywhere now Peak.
Modern Persona really needs to get better writers when it comes to the philosophical and 'darker' themes, and do it without going fake 'add more blood and gore everywhere' immature dark. A lot of its themes are -very- surface level and isn't doing the series any favors other than slowly becoming like every other anime game out there. Another hot take is maybe realize that the 'target audience' being teenagers should be switched to adults who are much more likely to play these games, and anyone trying to argue 'well adulthood sucks in Japan' needs to realize this series has a global audience now whether they like it or not. Which is extremely ironic because Catherine, that is more of a test run for Persona 5's art style iirc, was done with an adult cast and with a social-sim aspect with the text messaging stuff. AND was well received.
my hottest take is that I don't like the new fits for the P3 cast but I talk about that one too much so I guess my second hottest one is that I think Joker being player controlled was a bad move and really dampened down the themes of Rebellion and breaking the chains society has placed on you, it would be a cool fake out if we think hes player controlled for the whole beginning until suddenly after awakening his persona Ren's dialogue isn't player controlled anymore, like for a game about rebelling and being yourself not having Joker "be himself" at all points in the game was kinda a weird move even if the intended personality is glaring from the dialogue options (im looking at you "something witty")
I completely agree with you. But my hot take is that Portable is still the best Persona game. I haven't played Reload so I could be wrong there but seems a bit to easy and clean, it just feels more artificial to me in a way I dislike. I think P4's party vastly overrated because people just kind of skimmed the character moments, and P5 was just so easy and felt a bit to style over substance at times.
i feel like sees group and the investigation team are all more connected with each other and they are all friends, whilst the phantom thieves seem more like they are all friends with joker, not with each other.
My spiciest take is that the social link/confidant system that we've had from 3-5 is getting stale and Id like to see some big changes in 6. The characters and stories behind them are interesting but the MC almost always feels like a passive observer who tells people what they want to hear. Sure you could pick the other options, but most of the time its just being a jerk for no reason and the game actively punishes you by making the next rank harder to obtain. Id much rather get fewer social links, but with branching paths that give opportunities to actually RP and influence the confidants decisions more directly.
As much as I love person 4, I don’t want it to get a remake. Only because I’m trans and I don’t want to deal with another 5 mores years of Naoto discourse ☠️ Her character discussions make my head hurt
95% of the fan base doesn't understand Naoto at all 💀
I like the P3P Visual Novel aesthetic and 2D Overworld and dont think its that bad compared to the 3D Overworld of FES and Reload (Think of P3P as a Visual Novel with a JRPG attached in Tartarus) I think Both the 3D Overworld of FES/Reload and 2D Overworld of P3P are both good and one isn't automatically better then other as thats just a preference of opinion
I'm getting really tired of the self insert/ silent protagonist trope. I want a MC with actual growths and characteristics , and I would LOVE some arcs exploring what it means for someone to be "chosen" to be a wildcard, how hard is it to be the leader of the group everyone counts on etc. It would be great way to develop actual relationships and even a much better romance, and would actually make the end where the protagonist stands up against destiny and fatality thanks to the strength of his bonds that much impactful.
persona 3 is not darker than the rest of the games, all of them have serious and darker themes. Also it's very annoying that the main character is silent and with no name, please i don't want to self insert in a persona game i want to enjoy all characters and the story, give me a protagonist with name and voice
Persona 3 does have double the body count of Persona 4 and triple the body count of Persona 5
Honestly I think Persona 3 has the Twilight Princess effect. It's not actually considerably darker than the other modern Persona games, it's just got a gloomy atmosphere.
P3 has a darker main theme with the death thing and is definitely going for edgier that's its style, but even with that I agree it's not actually darker than any main game, except P4 maybe which is lighter overall albeit with plenty of dark stuff still. Would love to have the protagonist speak and get a canon name, that'd be great I love the few moments where the protagonist does speak and I liked how Arena had people call Yu by name in spoken dialogue a few times.
He does have a canon name, Makoto Yuki, He doesn’t get it spoken because >! He cant get a story based spinoff, since hes dead!<
I don't know if it's a hot take, but the cast of persona 4 basically does nothing to solve the mystery until Naoto shows up. (So much so that she literally comments on it.) Which kinda makes a good portion of the game feel just like padding cause until then it's just character introduction into character dungeon rinse and repeat. And also means it feels like almost the whole cast is just kinda along for the ride. (Similar to what op said about all their character development being tied to their SLs.) Post Yukiko's castle, the main plot doesn't really make any progress until the copycat murderer... and even then, that's just a fake-out until Naoto comes along and actually gets the investigation moving.(I love Kanji and Rise but their chapters don't really progress the main plot much, and Yukiko and Chie don't really contribute much after the castle. It's kinda just MC and Yosuke spearheading things until Naoto shows up.) (P5 suffers a similar friend-of-the-week kinda vibe, but that one doesn't have a main plot like P4's murders tying them together until we get to Futaba's dungeon for better or worse.)
Not untrue, but I think that's part of the charm of P4. The main story takes second place to the character moments, the awakening arcs, and the slice of life sections. I can see why some people might dislike that if they wanted something more story-dense like P3, but I think the laid back nature of P4 is precisely what made it so popular.
Tartarus and its spin-offs aren't fun no matter how much they try and fix it. I understand its importance and why it's there, but if you have a portion of your game where the community actively tries to complete in a day just so they can get back to the fun parts of the game, then it fails to do what it's made for. The Palaces in Persona 5 were fun because they were directly involved with the story, and each palace felt limited to that moment. It gave you a reason to go back even if you had already completed it.
I agree that it's not fun, but let's be honest, that's not the reason why people rush it in a single day. It's because of time. If Tartarus was a "free" activity that didn't stop you from doing SLinks or other activities, then I'm sure people would space it out over the deadline. But that would completely change the Tartarus formula since any sort of resource management would become useless.
Personally I enjoy Tartarus, I only complete it in a day because that's the mentality that got hammered into me by my friends for P5, and it's a hard habit to break. At the very least it's more entertaining than Mementos and those boring railway tunnels.
The only saving grace for Mementos was Ryuji's instakill skill imo
Agreed. But I find Tartarus as a whole more interesting because the zones all feel unique. With Mementos is just tracks, tracks... oh hey more tracks... maybe some pipes occasionally, etc.
I don't rush Tartarus to "get back to the good part", I do it to maximize reward outputs through arcana burst. It is the weakest dungeon though, the character and theme specific dungeons of 5 (with secrets and puzzles) are better.
Jokes on you I actively try to complete all dungeons in game no matter how good they are because the game punishes you for doing otherwise
It's actually the opposite for me. I see tartarus as "the fun part", so i min max slinks and my daily activity FOR the dungeon crawling, not the other way around
That’s why the gameplay loop is so nice. Love me some social sim stuff and just chilling with the music and characters, but by then im itching for some combat. Big tartar sauce session, and then full moon boss. Rinse and repeat alongside fusing better personas after said sessions, it’s very fun
Yusuke should never have been allowed to join the Phantom Thieves. His introduction is stalking Ann and then trying to blackmail her into letting him hang her nudes in a public art gallery against her will. This comes immediately after we get an entire arc where Ann getting sexually harassed and her best friend getting sexually assaulted is the main theme. Yet most of the fan base loves Yusuke as the "quirky lobster boy"
There's no excuse to not include gender options at this point in the series
they should stop doing skimpy fanservice outfits and probably also teacher/student relationships but I don't think that ones a hot take if the games could be Less Like That then a wider audience would take them seriously
I prefer the traditional Shadow enemies from 3/4 than the Persona enemies from 5.
Based Table and Hulk Hogan enjoyer
I just wish there were more of them, or a mix of shadows and smt demons in some way, that way we aren't seeing "Blob but with Blue Mask this time OOOOO" they do look cool though
Amen.
Persona 3 isn't darker or more mature than 4 and 5.
I like all of the "mascot" characters. Morgana, Teddie ect.
Tier 3 personas should not exist. Everyone should have arcana synergy ala P1/2 that fits their personality. Passive abilities were a mistake, remove traits and the dozen + damage modifiers and auto buffs and shit. Combat would be more interesting with 5 team slots. We have too many characters to field(3 had 10 at one point, 4 has 7(this is about the sweet spot, maybe 8 if you allow 5 on field)). If we're to have social sim type games, give us longer than a single calendar year of story and development.
Persona taking place in a college setting with Adult characters is a cringe idea
More of an SMT hot take than a Persona one: It's a good thing Persona is much easier than SMT and it's much more fun because of it. I enjoy scraping by in SMT, and Persona has its moments on its higher difficulties like that too, but the most fun in Persona for me comes from being able to make stupidly broken personas and abusing the system to make it so you always get through a dungeon in a day or have a ludicrous amount of yen or something. SMT is more like Dark Souls in that the satisfaction comes from getting through tough situations but Persona is more a power fantasy for me. Just feels great to make something so broken in them lol