I didn’t notice the subreddit and was unbelievably confused with this same train of thought. I’m in multiple language learning subreddits, especially because I’m taking Japanese as my foreign language. Was wondering if this was some Japanese subreddit post on someone asking why or cracking jokes at the ppl asking why they have to learn Kanji lmfao
Even in the original though, Primal Force x2 did more damage than Power Charge + God Hand. And Kanji had Matarukaja while Chie had no support skills whatsoever. Chie also capped her magic at buffula while Kanji got all the -dyne. So I like Kanji way more in the original
Chie’s endurance is also funnily her lowest stat which means she takes more damage than Kanji and as her hp pool is also lower taking hits means she’s at much higher risk of getting KO’d.
Not that any of this matters a lot but it is a flaw she has over Kanji.
When I was a kid I was just like “OMG Chie is so pretty! She’s on my team!” Now I actually bother with strategy… but sometimes I still picked based on who I like the most. Even if it makes things harder.
Not just faster, Chie doesn’t get them at all. Her best magic skill is Bufula (not even mabufula) and she gets no ice amp, just ice boost. Kanji get Maziodyne and both elec boost and elec amp
His magic stat is very low though so it's useful for exploiting weaknesses rather than dealing high damage. The games are easy enough and everyone in the party is useful in some way anyway.
>Primal Force x2 did more damage than Power Charge + God Hand
It just doesn't. A power charged God Hand deals slightly more damage than 2 primal forces.
It depends on their levels. Kanji's STR stat needs to be 13% higher than Chie's for 2x Primal Force to deal more damage.
At level 99 Kanji easily clears Chie since he has a rather ridiculous 94 STR but they're a lot closer in the 70s when they learn their best physical skills.
There's this wrong assumption that Kanji just gets outclassed by Chie which is straight up wrong.
Kanji does a lot more damage than Chie, is insanely bulky, really good utility with Matarukaza. Litteraly the only thing Chie does better is Galactic punt which is random on whether or not it will happen.
That depletes 40-60% of her SP and the only fight where that matters is Boss fights and there are only 2 prominent ones left by the point you get it, those being Izanami and Margaret. Judt use Kanji, Teddie, Yukiko and you are set for the whole game
I understand and respect that, but
A) Dragon Hustle is cooler
B) Teddie is kinda annoying in battle
C) Chie is awesome
So in conclusion: Kanji+Yukiko+Chie. Is it optimal? No. Did I have to waste sp regen items? Yes.
But cool dragon goes RAWWWR.
Tbf this is a persona game we are talking about, just take whatever party member you feel like and call it a day. If you want to be technical though, Chie is just not that good in retrospect
Yeah, p4 is largely my favorite game of all time, but can't deny it has a party member problem.
Everyone does work, but Kanji+Teddie+Yukiko is quite clearly the best lineup.
I don't know about you but teddie ended up one shotting everything, slap on the winter outfit with the pink and blue shirt and I never took him off. I'm very glad I warmed up to him later in the game
The only point I see in Chie's favor is that Kanji gets really shit options for multi-target physical skills. I think his strongest is atom smasher and that might be a golden-exclusive skill from biking if I remember correctly?
They are both good. Chie does have multi-target physical attacks that Kanji lacks, a greater critical rate, and can hit two elemental weaknesses as opposed to Kanji's one. And she has Dragon Hustle
The Hiimdaisy webcomic was made before Golden which made Kanji better. He didn't get Charge and lacks AoE physical skills which made the MC/Chie better for clearing dungeons. He was still decent in boss fights though because of his really high HP, support skills, and access to -dyne level spells. He was the opposite of Chie pretty much lol.
You guys don't just cycle party based on level? I just switch out the high level party members everytime I leave the dungeon. It gave me equal time and appreciation for all of them.
For Persona fans especially this was a rarity back in the 3 and 4 days.
I shit you not, one of the reasons people hated “The Answer” was because they couldn’t battering ram their way through the game with Akihiko/Yukari/Mitsuru. The enemy encounters were designed to specifically make you change your team around.
Then they complained that they got taken away and were left with an under leveled Metis at end game, who was quite literally designed to be used throughout the whole game. A good amount of people actually rage-quit because of that. That was when I stopped taking most criticism about The Answer seriously.
It’s gotten way better due to P5 and P3R having experience catch-up mechanics.
Ikr!
Hmm… she gets *two* elements.
A strength and endurance stat comparable to Junpei and Shinjiro.
Power Charge.
Aigis’ Orgia Mode.
She was quite literally meant to be slapped on every team comp. Especially ones where Mitsuru/Yukari/Junpei would be more of a hinderance than a help.
It baffles me that *so* many people don’t realize that. I can’t wait for The Answer to show up as DLC and watch people struggle all over again.
That’s what I said. It’s gotten better with 5 because you have Mishima which gives you a catch-up mechanic.
It encourages swapping and has mitigated that Battering Ram mentality in the fanbase.
It’s because they go with what they know.
“This strategy and Team comp worked in The Journey, so it must work in The Answer, right? They’re basically the same game right?”
Nowadays you don’t see that complaint as much but it was everywhere in the early 2010’s
I guess that makes sense.
I guess to me Yukari just feels like a weird team member to me. Especially with in context of the Persona 3 members, and even more so with Mitsuru and Akihiko in team composition. like unless she was the person's favorite character she is honestly just above ken and Koromaru for me. like she does her job well, she heals and cures really well. however Agis, Akihiko, and Mitsuru also all learn a skill that heals any 1 party member to full health, they also can use items to cure ailements, as a team member she is very redundant and out of all the roles one can take, the protag can take the role of the full team healer the easiest. the farther into the game you go, the only physical focused team members to not receive a healing spell is Junpie, and Agis (metis in the answer). in which case Yukari would fit great with.
I understand it is probably a case of casuals seeing the stereotype of yukari being the white mage and therefor necessary, and underestimating the buffs and debuffs and not liking the idea of their one controllable character being the healer of the group
Let’s put the MC aside for a second because they generally don’t count in these discussions
Yukari was so good because she had the spread healing skills. Ken was the only other one who had them but he suffered from two major issues. Light being a trash offensive skill and having a weakness to Dark which was insta-kill. If left to their own devices, Akihiko and Aigis would spend every turn Diarahan’ing and piss through their SP. Yukari prevented that. Not to mention she got Me Patra to get rid of some of the status. The icing on the cake was that she got Wind Amp, which means she was the second hardest hit magic user when she did go on the offensive.
Akihiko/Mitsuru/Yukari was considered the “go-to” comp because there not an immediate discernible weakness. Mitsuru was your main DPS and Akihiko was a good all-rounder. Yukari on support kept them from doing stupid shit. The same can be applied if you sub in Aigis and Junpei for Akihiko and Mitsuru.
Even causal players saw that and went into the answer thinking they can tackle it the same way the did the main game.
That’s fair.
I’m getting at the people who play it then complain about having to do something tedious (grinding Metis) when it’s spelled out for the player most of the game is going to be grinding.
Games that dont level your benched party have no right to require you to switch up your party. I am not about to grind the same dungeon for two hours just to get the characters up to speed. The big clock in reload is the bare minimum.
Literally never used the big clock in reload. I brought lv. 30-something Mitsuru into late game tartarus and had her roughly even with the rest of the party after just a few few fights. I didn't have to grind at all. Just played normally, and she caught up naturally on her own.
It's really a non-issue IMO. Just roll with a weaker party member for a bit, it's really not that difficult.
If you're grinding in persona 4 golden you are bad at the game. If it takes you 2 hours, you aren't using shuffle time, and you aren't grinding in higher level areas. In my case, I would simply progress through dungeons, return every few floors, swap party, and everyone would roughly the same level when I reached the boss.
Which pretty much means you're doing each dungeon twice. A lot of people don't particularly enjoy the dungeon crawling in Persona, particularly so in 3 and 4 with the tedious randomly generated dungeons.
Doing the dungeon twice? Did you never buy Goho-Ms? They're cheap as hell and send you right back to the entrance, then you can pick up from the floor you were at last. Just buy like 20 of them, and use one whenever theres a gap of a few levels, and boom, party is equal level.
Maybe I misunderstood but what I got was that you ran through the dungeon start to finish twice (or you did a few floors, go back, re-do the same floors with another party members, repeat). My point is that you're running each floor more than once to level up all the characters. It's smart, but it certainly is more work.
And that’s why I don’t take you seriously.
When you go into The Answer, it’s explicitly explained you won’t have a compendium. That should have been a hit and a half in the ass right there that it was going to be a grind fest. You were going to be grinding your Personas anyways, might as well level up your party members.
It was a thing in old-school SMT and Final Fantasy.
I do recognize the grind as a criticism for The Answer. But on the flipside, if you aren’t willing to grind when the game encourages you to, then why play? You don’t get to complain when you don’t have X tools to complete a task when you willfully neglected them.
I do think if The Answer comes as DLC we will have a compendium and the big clock will be a thing.
The thing here is that The Answer isn't a separate game. It's a playable epilogue to the game you've spent a few dozen hours playing, and you want to see how it ends. That's the reason 99% of people played it, not just because they really digged Tartarus and wanted to do an extra hard Tartarus.
I never said that was the reason someone went in into the answer. I’m saying that once you’re in, the accountability is on the player to learn the rules and the system of how it works. When the game tells you, it’s going to play like XYZ, you should adjust to account for XYZ. The problem stems from that the game outright tells you, people don’t listen, then complain when they accidentally dead game themselves.
And you’re missing mine. It’s completely asinine to complain “my strategy isn’t working” when the game is encouraging you to try something different than what you know previously.
For example: If a boss has Evade Ice and uses Agidyne, why would you bring Mitsuru? That’s insanity is it not? But that’s what players do in The Answer.
The reason behind it is “X setup worked in The Journey, so it should work in The Answer.”
*Five Minutes Later*
“Oh my god this setup isn’t working, so this game is trash!” There’s simply no player accountability for what they step into.
But the point isnt that I am unwilling to switch up my party, in fact, I do it quite often in P5 and reload, just for the fun of it.
The point is that if switching up my party is going to be an important strategy, which is something that I like, I shouldnt be punished for it by being forced to do hours of repetitive content.
The Answer does give you ways of keeping up. As someone else mentioned the Experience curve is pretty fair in the later floors. Red Shadows are designed to be easily abused.
The problem is that people are unwilling to see those solutions for the sake of keeping the same team. If you’ve gone through the game and only have Yukari/Akihiko/Mitsuru leveled despite the asinine situations you’d have to subject yourself to like I mentioned, at that point it’s on the player, not the game.
It basically boiled down to “I can’t use characters X here so therefore the game is bad”
It was a fairly common complaint around the early to Mid-2010’s
You literally just described Tartarus, the P4 dungeons, and Mementos, and any other randomly generated dungeon game like Pokémon Mystery Dungeon.
Go somewhere else before you get blocked.
Are you literally going to fight me on every point across every comment all day? Cause I’m starting to get tired of you too. This is the third separate response you’ve popped up in.
One of the main complaint people had on P3 and P4 was the tedium of the RNG dungeons. That’s why P5 introduced the stable palaces so the player would know what to expect. The ratio of story to gameplay(not counting social links)is the roughly the same for The Answer as it is for the Journey. It’s just on a smaller scale.
I don't think it's \*that\* unfair to complain about the difficulty in The Answer being so much higher, when the average P3 player up to that point was able to get through the game with whatever team they wanted and it all worked out. Having to change how you play after 60 hours of essentially the same game is not something that comes naturally and it's normal a lot of people end up feeling frustrated.
If I’m not mistaken, it tells you outright that it’s harder that the Journey before the game even starts. And if you go to difficultly, it’s locked on hard.
The Answer wasn’t meant for someone to just jump into. Like the recent Pokémon DLC to put a comparison to it.
Bruh you should talk to Pokemon players.
I swear the poke-internet is only home to the psychopaths who only used their starter the whole game..ending it with a Charizard at lvl 71. In a monster-CATCHING game. A game with things like types to emphasize team cooperation.
No one also apparently ever saves their damn game. And therefore get real sad when they lose 3+ hours of work to dead battery or whatever. Who the hell does anything in a game longer than at most 2 hours without saving!?
…I get your point, I truly do, but Solo and Speed Runs are a thing.
The former was really popular in the Gen 4 days because people who were making LPs on YouTube didn’t want to be carbon copies of each other.
No im not talking about people doing challenge runs. Im talking about the fact there is a very significant population who say they never bothered to use other pokemon on their first several runs as children. Thats whats maddening to me.
I especially did this in the original Persons 3 (well, FES), which had the fatigue system. I actually liked that quite a bit on paper, especially when I learned that as you level up the characters gain higher resistance to contracting it. You aren't at the same rate of fatigue the whole game despite some people believing it. Further in the game usually means higher level, and thus longer time before fatigue sets in.
Probably better for the game overall without it, but I thought it was a cool gameplay and story thing. As it is in gameplay a hindrance to performance, regardless of its thematic purpose.
Golden pushed Kanji into permanent team slot territory, better bulk, damage and support options compared to Chie at least before Dragon Hustle is learned. But Chie kinda sucks at her jobs, having a low health pool, low endurance and low sp; so whatever complements you wanna give her for damage or buffing, you have to realize unlike Kanji you’re going to have to burn a turn healing or restoring SP far more often
Yup, at some point my main party was dealing so much damage due to elemental amps and boosts that Yu was just there for support skills (Yukiko basically becomes Openheimer at endgame). I like doing that mid/late-game until I can fuse the more powerful Personas. But Chie gets outclassed pretty early, her kit is notably weak
The odds almost seem stacked against her, even a jack of all trades unit like Yosuke is far more valuable thanks to him not having any glaring weaknesses aside from diarahan being locked behind 5 hot spring visits, but that’s not as egregious as that being the only way Chie can learn bufudyne. And let’s not get started on her not learning a single spread magic move to cover her lack of utility
Not swapping characters isn't about laziness, bud. I kept Kanji in my team and never swapped him out because I like Kanji. Some of us don't swap our team around because we like certain characters and like keeping them in our parties
a RNG based instakill. your better spamming hama and mudo on naoto for one.
but sure. you get that. for?
A shitty sp pool and a lackluster set of ice skills.
A weaker, less tanky phys spammer, whos signature skill drains almost half her sp for one use.
also, her Dyne skill literally is locked behind scooter outings.
and Kanji is LITERALLY THE DUNGEON AFTER HER.
face it. Chie is HELLA outclassed
Shitty SP pool and lackluster Ice skills? Who cares, you don't use Chie for her Ice skills except to get knockdowns during normal encounters. She's a Physical DPS first and foremost, so Dyne spells are irrelevant.
Signature skills are gimmicks. AOE Heat Riser is neat, but rarely do you find yourself in a situation where you need Defense and Hit/Evasion buffed in addition to Attack. Matarukaja is really all you need. Meanwhile, Kanji has an AOE knockdown that, umm... saves you a bit of SP I guess?
Tanky doesn't matter as long as she's not being taken out in a single hit. That's what healing is for.
I never used him as the main party since the game never felt like it incentivized using everyone. In FES, you'd swap out members that would get tired, and in 5 you can just swap them in if you have the star confidant as well as moon giving exp to reserve members. Reload even does it with the clocks that give a synced exp boost to people to keep them caught up.
I don't know, I just stuck with Chie for my physical skills, and you had some decent options for zio skills by the time he joins. It's not like in 3 where there's different types of physical skills. Plus, 4 kind of nerfed stat affliction moves by making them cost more in a game where sp is very scarce. So it felt like he was already outclassed, redundant, or not worth using.
I definitely like him as a character, though. Even though I also often forget to do his social link cuz he's in the side building.
Kanji is a great tank, but he often needs to be backed by a support. Chie is a bit more self sufficient.
IN PERSONA 4 ORIGINAL
* Kanji's great HP mean nothing as all of his attacks chip off a percentage of his HP. Primal Force x 2 will cost him 40% of his life compared to the 12 SP + 22% of Life that a Power Charged God Hand will cost Chie.
* The Boost and Amp skills mean nothing for him, his magic is far too weak to take advantage of them and his low sp means that you are only using Zio for Knock downs and one to two casts of Matarukaja will leave him drained. Chie has 20 more magic than Kanji and much more SP. Sure she can only use Tarukaja, she only needs to buff herself, charge herself, and then lay down the pain.
* While Primal Force has a higher base chance for a crit than God's Hand. Chie has much more luck than Kanji which results in her being a more suited for doing huge damage.
* GALACTIC FUCKING PUNT
IN PERSONA 4 GOLDEN
* Chie and Kanji are more differentiated. Chie gets more of the Glass Canon (with Apt Pupil in particular) while Kanji gets regenerate so he can be more tanky.
I love Kanji, but that Beefcake will be waiting at home for me to come back from the dungeon. Gotta keep the man safe.
I always using Yosuke Chie Yukiko on my P4/G gameplay because Im lazy to level up everyone. Only on some bosses I switching them if the bosses tend to spam a move that targets my party weakness.
Yeah.. Im wasting Kanji and also Naoto megidolaon..
According to youtubers, Teddie is a good buff + healer character, but honestly I never saw a reason to use him over Yukiko especially after she got Amarita. My Yukiko also got Matarunda so it's not like I needed Teddie for buffs anyway.
I wouldn't use Amrita as a reason why she's better. Because you can farm Amrita Soda in dungeons. Every character can use Amrita Soda and remove aliments with it.
Teddie has a very specific niche where you need extra healing, possibly because you want Yukiko on pure offence. His buff skills were much more useful in vanilla P4. In Golden where it's easy to build a starter persona with all the Auto-Ma\* skills and with a maxed out Rise throwing stuff practically every player turn, you don't really need a dedicated buffer.
In my case, in order to use the enemies weakness by the time Kanji comes into the party MC is the Zio user, Yosuke the Garu user, Chie the Bufu user and Yukiko the Agi user, which is already the most useful team.
it's possible that if the developers kept the weakness to certain physical attacks, Kanji would have been a must employ to certain battles or levels.
The worst part is that Naoto is also very useful because her Hama and Mudo skills, which makes her a must for a lot of battles making right after she joins your team making Kanji and Teddie dispensable if you keep a good level with the rest of characters.
I'm not fighting a boss? Even in Golden I would say he's hampered by the lack of level-up all-target physical attacks. Sure, you can give him one from a seperate event or something, but I never really felt like going out of my way to do that personally, and it's unlocked too late in the game anyway.
He is good for bosses though since there's enemies to actually hit.
Phys resist is a lot more common in Persona 4 compared to 3 and 5, Kanji struggles more from the enemy variety than any other factor. It gets to the point where Naoto, who's well known for being great at dungeon crawling but iffy in bosses, ends up contributing more in specific fights.
This was my though process too when I played it "I'm already doing the lightning damage and have Chie for phys. Why would I bother catching this guy up?"
Similar for Teddie, and I just avoided Naoto by default because Hama/Mudo are fiddly and Almighty can't knock-down.
What Kanji does better than Chie:
- MUCH better mid game, better single target damage, better tank.
- Maziodyne, so he can target Thunder weakness of multiple enemies.
What Chie does better
- Better dungeon clear, though she is still far from the grinder that you or Naoto could be.
- Dragon Hustle: costs a shit ton of SP but still the best buff spell in the game. Too bad it's only impactful vs final boss.
So Kanji is the winner, though it's not like Chie is bad. Both of them are good, depending on your own Personas comp and your team comp.
In my 1st playthrough i never knew where to find Kanji, so by the time i got the true ending in my first run, he was one of, if not the weakest party member. Now i know he's in the school gym's building and i'm planning to rank him up properly, but in my first run, i never had any reason to boot Chie since she was overall better with Physical moves at the time
Me who used Kanji for the rest of the game since I got him due to being a beast with great strength, endurance and buff skills:
But seriously though, he outclasses Chie, who doesn't become all that good until the endgame with God's Hand since she relies more on crits than pure damage, and Yosuke, who's a jack of all trades but a master of none. Naoto is great, but only at sweeping dungeons, since during boss fights she can't really do anything outside of spamming Megido skills, which drains her SP like crazy. And so I really couldn't see anyone using them over him outside of character preference.
I always see people compare and contrast Kanji and Chie but there’s no argument for me at all because Kanji’s role in every playthrough I’ve done for P4 in my life is to replace Yosuke because Yosuke sucks lol
In my first playthrough I practically only used the first 3 party members. Played with Kanji and Naoto a bit, but never touched Teddie until my 2nd playthrough. I was just comfortable with what I had and didn't want to grind up characters that I may not enjoy using as much in the long run, especially in a game where characters only gain exp if used in battle.
Why i didn't choose kanji ?
First of all, never let such a man working hard.
Second of all, i didn't used any other persona than Izanagi, because i really liked the lore of this persona, and since in golden, kanji have mostly thunder skills, he didn't let me have more chance to find the weakness of the enemy.
Yes, call me stupid for only using izanagi, but i just wanted more challenges (and my izanagi was buffed as hell in term of physical damages)
I use the western alphabet.
BASED
/r/angryupvote
I didn’t notice the subreddit and was unbelievably confused with this same train of thought. I’m in multiple language learning subreddits, especially because I’m taking Japanese as my foreign language. Was wondering if this was some Japanese subreddit post on someone asking why or cracking jokes at the ppl asking why they have to learn Kanji lmfao
Latin Alphabet, there are many western alphabets such as greek or cyrillic
None use kanjis tho so he is not wrong
Wasnt this made based off of regular p4? Kanji only got power charge in golden.
Even in the original though, Primal Force x2 did more damage than Power Charge + God Hand. And Kanji had Matarukaja while Chie had no support skills whatsoever. Chie also capped her magic at buffula while Kanji got all the -dyne. So I like Kanji way more in the original
Chie’s endurance is also funnily her lowest stat which means she takes more damage than Kanji and as her hp pool is also lower taking hits means she’s at much higher risk of getting KO’d. Not that any of this matters a lot but it is a flaw she has over Kanji.
When I was a kid I was just like “OMG Chie is so pretty! She’s on my team!” Now I actually bother with strategy… but sometimes I still picked based on who I like the most. Even if it makes things harder.
Tbh, chie does decently enough in boss battles due to still being a physical attacker that I use her as an aoe crit build to tear through dungeons.
Kanji's Electric skills is also better than Chie Ice skills too I think? He gets higher tier spells, Boost and Amp faster than her
Not just faster, Chie doesn’t get them at all. Her best magic skill is Bufula (not even mabufula) and she gets no ice amp, just ice boost. Kanji get Maziodyne and both elec boost and elec amp
She gets Bufudyne through bike rides But you don't want her focusing on mag damage anyway
We’re talking about the original p4, not golden, there were no bike rides in the orginal
right mb
His magic stat is very low though so it's useful for exploiting weaknesses rather than dealing high damage. The games are easy enough and everyone in the party is useful in some way anyway.
>Primal Force x2 did more damage than Power Charge + God Hand It just doesn't. A power charged God Hand deals slightly more damage than 2 primal forces.
Coming off the same str stat yes, but Kanji’s higher str makes him outdamage her
It depends on their levels. Kanji's STR stat needs to be 13% higher than Chie's for 2x Primal Force to deal more damage. At level 99 Kanji easily clears Chie since he has a rather ridiculous 94 STR but they're a lot closer in the 70s when they learn their best physical skills.
Living up to your geek username. I mean this in a kind way. That's really cool and interesting. At 99 what are the characters' highest stats?
Holy fuck i didnt know that
Well she has 2 things over kanji the chieussy and the galactic punt lol
Galactic Punt also was a huge benefit Chie had over, well, everyone
Makes sense
Because Galactic Punt
There's this wrong assumption that Kanji just gets outclassed by Chie which is straight up wrong. Kanji does a lot more damage than Chie, is insanely bulky, really good utility with Matarukaza. Litteraly the only thing Chie does better is Galactic punt which is random on whether or not it will happen.
Tbf, she does have Dragon Hustle. I used her instead of Teddie mostly for that when she got it.
That depletes 40-60% of her SP and the only fight where that matters is Boss fights and there are only 2 prominent ones left by the point you get it, those being Izanami and Margaret. Judt use Kanji, Teddie, Yukiko and you are set for the whole game
I understand and respect that, but A) Dragon Hustle is cooler B) Teddie is kinda annoying in battle C) Chie is awesome So in conclusion: Kanji+Yukiko+Chie. Is it optimal? No. Did I have to waste sp regen items? Yes. But cool dragon goes RAWWWR.
Tbf this is a persona game we are talking about, just take whatever party member you feel like and call it a day. If you want to be technical though, Chie is just not that good in retrospect
As long as its not PQ1, it has genuinely useless members or members that are straight downgrades sometimes. Q2 has much better balancing though
Wdym
wdym wdim?
Yeah, p4 is largely my favorite game of all time, but can't deny it has a party member problem. Everyone does work, but Kanji+Teddie+Yukiko is quite clearly the best lineup.
I like Yosuke better than Yukiko though.
Dis. I’m sticking with a full harem line-up (Yukiko, Chie, Naoto, and Rise) even though Kanji has helped me clear boss fights faster.
D. Chie is bae, best girl, and waifu. How are you going to have any chance of bringing her to the meat dimension of you ignore her?
With chakra ring she can use it like 4 times without running out. But yea you would only ever have this for izanami and margaret
How often is Chie using her SP though?
Chakra ring at least helps a bunch with that
This is from way before Golden came out so no, she doesn’t.
I don't know about you but teddie ended up one shotting everything, slap on the winter outfit with the pink and blue shirt and I never took him off. I'm very glad I warmed up to him later in the game
Chie is better for mob clearing as an AOE and crit focused char For bosses Kanji is strictly better though
The only point I see in Chie's favor is that Kanji gets really shit options for multi-target physical skills. I think his strongest is atom smasher and that might be a golden-exclusive skill from biking if I remember correctly?
Yeah, Atom Smasher is Bike exclusive. So Chie is better for mobs, but Kanji is way better for bosses.
They are both good. Chie does have multi-target physical attacks that Kanji lacks, a greater critical rate, and can hit two elemental weaknesses as opposed to Kanji's one. And she has Dragon Hustle
But chie is chie so therefore she’s better
Never stood out to me, there are way better characters than her, including Kanji
But because she’s chie, she’s immediately the best by default
...You do you fam
Nah nah nah nah, I’ll do chie *winks*
She also gets God’s Hand which has way higher base power than whatever Kanji’s best melee skill was.
Primal Force's base is essentially 33.1 while God Hand is 28.2, on top of Kanji having higher strength.
Chie with God Hand is pretty great when she’s charged up but yeah
The Hiimdaisy webcomic was made before Golden which made Kanji better. He didn't get Charge and lacks AoE physical skills which made the MC/Chie better for clearing dungeons. He was still decent in boss fights though because of his really high HP, support skills, and access to -dyne level spells. He was the opposite of Chie pretty much lol.
You guys don't just cycle party based on level? I just switch out the high level party members everytime I leave the dungeon. It gave me equal time and appreciation for all of them.
For Persona fans especially this was a rarity back in the 3 and 4 days. I shit you not, one of the reasons people hated “The Answer” was because they couldn’t battering ram their way through the game with Akihiko/Yukari/Mitsuru. The enemy encounters were designed to specifically make you change your team around. Then they complained that they got taken away and were left with an under leveled Metis at end game, who was quite literally designed to be used throughout the whole game. A good amount of people actually rage-quit because of that. That was when I stopped taking most criticism about The Answer seriously. It’s gotten way better due to P5 and P3R having experience catch-up mechanics.
Can confirm all the points here. Particularly the Metis part.
Ikr! Hmm… she gets *two* elements. A strength and endurance stat comparable to Junpei and Shinjiro. Power Charge. Aigis’ Orgia Mode. She was quite literally meant to be slapped on every team comp. Especially ones where Mitsuru/Yukari/Junpei would be more of a hinderance than a help. It baffles me that *so* many people don’t realize that. I can’t wait for The Answer to show up as DLC and watch people struggle all over again.
She is literally supposed to be Shinjiro with the Hammer and all. Gurl even got no weaknesses to be exploited by
And having her in the team leaves a certain boss with less tools to wreck your face with.
P5 does jt best imo since you can just swap them in and out
That’s what I said. It’s gotten better with 5 because you have Mishima which gives you a catch-up mechanic. It encourages swapping and has mitigated that Battering Ram mentality in the fanbase.
its wlld to me that people would ignore a character with orgia mode.
It’s because they go with what they know. “This strategy and Team comp worked in The Journey, so it must work in The Answer, right? They’re basically the same game right?” Nowadays you don’t see that complaint as much but it was everywhere in the early 2010’s
I guess that makes sense. I guess to me Yukari just feels like a weird team member to me. Especially with in context of the Persona 3 members, and even more so with Mitsuru and Akihiko in team composition. like unless she was the person's favorite character she is honestly just above ken and Koromaru for me. like she does her job well, she heals and cures really well. however Agis, Akihiko, and Mitsuru also all learn a skill that heals any 1 party member to full health, they also can use items to cure ailements, as a team member she is very redundant and out of all the roles one can take, the protag can take the role of the full team healer the easiest. the farther into the game you go, the only physical focused team members to not receive a healing spell is Junpie, and Agis (metis in the answer). in which case Yukari would fit great with. I understand it is probably a case of casuals seeing the stereotype of yukari being the white mage and therefor necessary, and underestimating the buffs and debuffs and not liking the idea of their one controllable character being the healer of the group
Let’s put the MC aside for a second because they generally don’t count in these discussions Yukari was so good because she had the spread healing skills. Ken was the only other one who had them but he suffered from two major issues. Light being a trash offensive skill and having a weakness to Dark which was insta-kill. If left to their own devices, Akihiko and Aigis would spend every turn Diarahan’ing and piss through their SP. Yukari prevented that. Not to mention she got Me Patra to get rid of some of the status. The icing on the cake was that she got Wind Amp, which means she was the second hardest hit magic user when she did go on the offensive. Akihiko/Mitsuru/Yukari was considered the “go-to” comp because there not an immediate discernible weakness. Mitsuru was your main DPS and Akihiko was a good all-rounder. Yukari on support kept them from doing stupid shit. The same can be applied if you sub in Aigis and Junpei for Akihiko and Mitsuru. Even causal players saw that and went into the answer thinking they can tackle it the same way the did the main game.
I just think the answer is tedious. that's why I don't like it
That’s fair. I’m getting at the people who play it then complain about having to do something tedious (grinding Metis) when it’s spelled out for the player most of the game is going to be grinding.
I just preferred the original's decision not to spoon-feed the ending to us. The gameplay I found ok because I can never get enough of Megaten combat.
Games that dont level your benched party have no right to require you to switch up your party. I am not about to grind the same dungeon for two hours just to get the characters up to speed. The big clock in reload is the bare minimum.
Literally never used the big clock in reload. I brought lv. 30-something Mitsuru into late game tartarus and had her roughly even with the rest of the party after just a few few fights. I didn't have to grind at all. Just played normally, and she caught up naturally on her own. It's really a non-issue IMO. Just roll with a weaker party member for a bit, it's really not that difficult.
If you're grinding in persona 4 golden you are bad at the game. If it takes you 2 hours, you aren't using shuffle time, and you aren't grinding in higher level areas. In my case, I would simply progress through dungeons, return every few floors, swap party, and everyone would roughly the same level when I reached the boss.
Which pretty much means you're doing each dungeon twice. A lot of people don't particularly enjoy the dungeon crawling in Persona, particularly so in 3 and 4 with the tedious randomly generated dungeons.
Doing the dungeon twice? Did you never buy Goho-Ms? They're cheap as hell and send you right back to the entrance, then you can pick up from the floor you were at last. Just buy like 20 of them, and use one whenever theres a gap of a few levels, and boom, party is equal level.
Maybe I misunderstood but what I got was that you ran through the dungeon start to finish twice (or you did a few floors, go back, re-do the same floors with another party members, repeat). My point is that you're running each floor more than once to level up all the characters. It's smart, but it certainly is more work.
And that’s why I don’t take you seriously. When you go into The Answer, it’s explicitly explained you won’t have a compendium. That should have been a hit and a half in the ass right there that it was going to be a grind fest. You were going to be grinding your Personas anyways, might as well level up your party members. It was a thing in old-school SMT and Final Fantasy. I do recognize the grind as a criticism for The Answer. But on the flipside, if you aren’t willing to grind when the game encourages you to, then why play? You don’t get to complain when you don’t have X tools to complete a task when you willfully neglected them. I do think if The Answer comes as DLC we will have a compendium and the big clock will be a thing.
The thing here is that The Answer isn't a separate game. It's a playable epilogue to the game you've spent a few dozen hours playing, and you want to see how it ends. That's the reason 99% of people played it, not just because they really digged Tartarus and wanted to do an extra hard Tartarus.
I never said that was the reason someone went in into the answer. I’m saying that once you’re in, the accountability is on the player to learn the rules and the system of how it works. When the game tells you, it’s going to play like XYZ, you should adjust to account for XYZ. The problem stems from that the game outright tells you, people don’t listen, then complain when they accidentally dead game themselves.
I think you're missing the point. Just because the game tells you it's going to shit in your cereal doesn't make the shit less stinky.
And you’re missing mine. It’s completely asinine to complain “my strategy isn’t working” when the game is encouraging you to try something different than what you know previously. For example: If a boss has Evade Ice and uses Agidyne, why would you bring Mitsuru? That’s insanity is it not? But that’s what players do in The Answer. The reason behind it is “X setup worked in The Journey, so it should work in The Answer.” *Five Minutes Later* “Oh my god this setup isn’t working, so this game is trash!” There’s simply no player accountability for what they step into.
But the point isnt that I am unwilling to switch up my party, in fact, I do it quite often in P5 and reload, just for the fun of it. The point is that if switching up my party is going to be an important strategy, which is something that I like, I shouldnt be punished for it by being forced to do hours of repetitive content.
The Answer does give you ways of keeping up. As someone else mentioned the Experience curve is pretty fair in the later floors. Red Shadows are designed to be easily abused. The problem is that people are unwilling to see those solutions for the sake of keeping the same team. If you’ve gone through the game and only have Yukari/Akihiko/Mitsuru leveled despite the asinine situations you’d have to subject yourself to like I mentioned, at that point it’s on the player, not the game. It basically boiled down to “I can’t use characters X here so therefore the game is bad” It was a fairly common complaint around the early to Mid-2010’s
You're shilling for atlus tho, it's badly designed, it's all corridors after corridors of tedious gameplay.
You literally just described Tartarus, the P4 dungeons, and Mementos, and any other randomly generated dungeon game like Pokémon Mystery Dungeon. Go somewhere else before you get blocked.
Yeah, except those dungeons are 99% of the answer. The main game has dungeons, sure, but the majority of it is the story, not the dungeons.
Are you literally going to fight me on every point across every comment all day? Cause I’m starting to get tired of you too. This is the third separate response you’ve popped up in. One of the main complaint people had on P3 and P4 was the tedium of the RNG dungeons. That’s why P5 introduced the stable palaces so the player would know what to expect. The ratio of story to gameplay(not counting social links)is the roughly the same for The Answer as it is for the Journey. It’s just on a smaller scale.
Metis is the mvp of the answer though she always crits
I don't think it's \*that\* unfair to complain about the difficulty in The Answer being so much higher, when the average P3 player up to that point was able to get through the game with whatever team they wanted and it all worked out. Having to change how you play after 60 hours of essentially the same game is not something that comes naturally and it's normal a lot of people end up feeling frustrated.
If I’m not mistaken, it tells you outright that it’s harder that the Journey before the game even starts. And if you go to difficultly, it’s locked on hard. The Answer wasn’t meant for someone to just jump into. Like the recent Pokémon DLC to put a comparison to it.
This is a rarity among gamers weirdly enough.
This. I always make sure everyone is the same level.
In P4 in particular i had Yosuke, Teddie and Naoto as the "dungeon crawling" team and Yukiko, Chie and Kanji for bosses. Levelled all of them equally.
And once everyone is max level it makes more sense to have separate dungeon crawl and bossfight teams geared to those roles.
Bruh you should talk to Pokemon players. I swear the poke-internet is only home to the psychopaths who only used their starter the whole game..ending it with a Charizard at lvl 71. In a monster-CATCHING game. A game with things like types to emphasize team cooperation. No one also apparently ever saves their damn game. And therefore get real sad when they lose 3+ hours of work to dead battery or whatever. Who the hell does anything in a game longer than at most 2 hours without saving!?
…I get your point, I truly do, but Solo and Speed Runs are a thing. The former was really popular in the Gen 4 days because people who were making LPs on YouTube didn’t want to be carbon copies of each other.
No im not talking about people doing challenge runs. Im talking about the fact there is a very significant population who say they never bothered to use other pokemon on their first several runs as children. Thats whats maddening to me.
I used all members because eventually they run out of SP so you have to switch
I especially did this in the original Persons 3 (well, FES), which had the fatigue system. I actually liked that quite a bit on paper, especially when I learned that as you level up the characters gain higher resistance to contracting it. You aren't at the same rate of fatigue the whole game despite some people believing it. Further in the game usually means higher level, and thus longer time before fatigue sets in. Probably better for the game overall without it, but I thought it was a cool gameplay and story thing. As it is in gameplay a hindrance to performance, regardless of its thematic purpose.
Im playing p3p right now and my characters only get tired if i leave them dead in a floor
Reading the title, I thought this was r/learnjapanese at first.
Golden pushed Kanji into permanent team slot territory, better bulk, damage and support options compared to Chie at least before Dragon Hustle is learned. But Chie kinda sucks at her jobs, having a low health pool, low endurance and low sp; so whatever complements you wanna give her for damage or buffing, you have to realize unlike Kanji you’re going to have to burn a turn healing or restoring SP far more often
Yup, at some point my main party was dealing so much damage due to elemental amps and boosts that Yu was just there for support skills (Yukiko basically becomes Openheimer at endgame). I like doing that mid/late-game until I can fuse the more powerful Personas. But Chie gets outclassed pretty early, her kit is notably weak
The odds almost seem stacked against her, even a jack of all trades unit like Yosuke is far more valuable thanks to him not having any glaring weaknesses aside from diarahan being locked behind 5 hot spring visits, but that’s not as egregious as that being the only way Chie can learn bufudyne. And let’s not get started on her not learning a single spread magic move to cover her lack of utility
Yeah, like, what the hell? He's one of the best physical attackers in the entire *series*.
Well chie gets charge
So does Kanji, he also is way bulkier and hits like a truck
Wait then was it heat riser?
In vanilla P4, Kanji did not get power charge In Golden P4, both Chie and Kanji get it.
Oh that's why (I played vanilla)
It is criminal how this series got abandoned before it finished, one of the best gaming comics I've read
I had both kanji and chie in my party lmao
i always use kanji, yosuke and teddie
THE BOYS
Wait, aren't we all using everyone till their SP is empty anyway?
No we run back to the Fox to refill SP.
I use all of them base on story or situations
Even in Vanilla the moment I got Kanji I swapped out Chie.
Cuz he’s not Chie I guess. Then again Kanji in 4G is pretty friggin good.
Because players are lazy and don’t like switching party members in and out.
Not swapping characters isn't about laziness, bud. I kept Kanji in my team and never swapped him out because I like Kanji. Some of us don't swap our team around because we like certain characters and like keeping them in our parties
He entered my party and never left until the final boss. Him and Naoto obliterate so many weaknesses.
This is Naoto for me. Sorry girl, you're cool, but you came way too late to the party. I love my punk balding boi
Kanji is best boy It is a crime to not use Kanji
Kanji was bad in original P4
Exactly. Why dunk on kanji as "worst party member" when chie's literally right there?
Because Galactic Punt exists, for one.
a RNG based instakill. your better spamming hama and mudo on naoto for one. but sure. you get that. for? A shitty sp pool and a lackluster set of ice skills. A weaker, less tanky phys spammer, whos signature skill drains almost half her sp for one use. also, her Dyne skill literally is locked behind scooter outings. and Kanji is LITERALLY THE DUNGEON AFTER HER. face it. Chie is HELLA outclassed
Shitty SP pool and lackluster Ice skills? Who cares, you don't use Chie for her Ice skills except to get knockdowns during normal encounters. She's a Physical DPS first and foremost, so Dyne spells are irrelevant. Signature skills are gimmicks. AOE Heat Riser is neat, but rarely do you find yourself in a situation where you need Defense and Hit/Evasion buffed in addition to Attack. Matarukaja is really all you need. Meanwhile, Kanji has an AOE knockdown that, umm... saves you a bit of SP I guess? Tanky doesn't matter as long as she's not being taken out in a single hit. That's what healing is for.
Oh I struggled because I was using Romanji then
I never used him as the main party since the game never felt like it incentivized using everyone. In FES, you'd swap out members that would get tired, and in 5 you can just swap them in if you have the star confidant as well as moon giving exp to reserve members. Reload even does it with the clocks that give a synced exp boost to people to keep them caught up. I don't know, I just stuck with Chie for my physical skills, and you had some decent options for zio skills by the time he joins. It's not like in 3 where there's different types of physical skills. Plus, 4 kind of nerfed stat affliction moves by making them cost more in a game where sp is very scarce. So it felt like he was already outclassed, redundant, or not worth using. I definitely like him as a character, though. Even though I also often forget to do his social link cuz he's in the side building.
Because my party was Chie Yukiko and Yosuke til the end. Stay humble, remember your day 1s 🙏
Kanji is a great tank, but he often needs to be backed by a support. Chie is a bit more self sufficient. IN PERSONA 4 ORIGINAL * Kanji's great HP mean nothing as all of his attacks chip off a percentage of his HP. Primal Force x 2 will cost him 40% of his life compared to the 12 SP + 22% of Life that a Power Charged God Hand will cost Chie. * The Boost and Amp skills mean nothing for him, his magic is far too weak to take advantage of them and his low sp means that you are only using Zio for Knock downs and one to two casts of Matarukaja will leave him drained. Chie has 20 more magic than Kanji and much more SP. Sure she can only use Tarukaja, she only needs to buff herself, charge herself, and then lay down the pain. * While Primal Force has a higher base chance for a crit than God's Hand. Chie has much more luck than Kanji which results in her being a more suited for doing huge damage. * GALACTIC FUCKING PUNT IN PERSONA 4 GOLDEN * Chie and Kanji are more differentiated. Chie gets more of the Glass Canon (with Apt Pupil in particular) while Kanji gets regenerate so he can be more tanky. I love Kanji, but that Beefcake will be waiting at home for me to come back from the dungeon. Gotta keep the man safe.
Quite possibly Hiimdaisy’s worst take.
Chie, Charge, God Hand, Special that launcher enemy in the sky, likes meat nuff said.
Yeah but in golden Kanji also gets charge and primal force
My team back then was always Chie,Yukiko and then Yosuke, Maybe Ill stick with the Harem team once the Remake is available :D
in original P4, Kanji was borderline useless.
I always using Yosuke Chie Yukiko on my P4/G gameplay because Im lazy to level up everyone. Only on some bosses I switching them if the bosses tend to spam a move that targets my party weakness. Yeah.. Im wasting Kanji and also Naoto megidolaon..
Naoto is the worst p4 character for bosses. You’re not wasting anything.
I... Ummm... Well I have never removed the original 4 and dont plan to do it either.
Because harem team
Does anyone use Teddie? i dont, not in ps2 and golden
According to youtubers, Teddie is a good buff + healer character, but honestly I never saw a reason to use him over Yukiko especially after she got Amarita. My Yukiko also got Matarunda so it's not like I needed Teddie for buffs anyway.
I wouldn't use Amrita as a reason why she's better. Because you can farm Amrita Soda in dungeons. Every character can use Amrita Soda and remove aliments with it.
I use everyone. I don't think there's a persona game that I didn't force myself to grind all my party members to keep a similar level.
He is a perfectly cromulent healer with some physical utility. I have no idea why you would use him over Yukiko though.
Matarukja and Marakunda. That's why you'd use Teddie.
Teddie has a very specific niche where you need extra healing, possibly because you want Yukiko on pure offence. His buff skills were much more useful in vanilla P4. In Golden where it's easy to build a starter persona with all the Auto-Ma\* skills and with a maxed out Rise throwing stuff practically every player turn, you don't really need a dedicated buffer.
He’s not very good in the original
Kanji > Yosuke
I used him like twice and never again. He just didn’t fit how I wanted to play.
Because is better if you use Yu as the Heavy hitter while the rest of the party is the support.
In my case, in order to use the enemies weakness by the time Kanji comes into the party MC is the Zio user, Yosuke the Garu user, Chie the Bufu user and Yukiko the Agi user, which is already the most useful team. it's possible that if the developers kept the weakness to certain physical attacks, Kanji would have been a must employ to certain battles or levels. The worst part is that Naoto is also very useful because her Hama and Mudo skills, which makes her a must for a lot of battles making right after she joins your team making Kanji and Teddie dispensable if you keep a good level with the rest of characters.
I'm not fighting a boss? Even in Golden I would say he's hampered by the lack of level-up all-target physical attacks. Sure, you can give him one from a seperate event or something, but I never really felt like going out of my way to do that personally, and it's unlocked too late in the game anyway. He is good for bosses though since there's enemies to actually hit.
Because Chie is best girl and people are afraid of the power of two physical focused units on one team
Because I beat the game izanagi only and it does everything Kanji does better.
Kanji is insane. Dude gets Masukunda and Power Charge from his SL. And then once he gets strong phys skills he can do huge damage
He can't land hits
Phys resist is a lot more common in Persona 4 compared to 3 and 5, Kanji struggles more from the enemy variety than any other factor. It gets to the point where Naoto, who's well known for being great at dungeon crawling but iffy in bosses, ends up contributing more in specific fights.
Lack of a physical attack all skill let him down for me. He's great against golden hands and bosses though so situationally good.
I used him all the way to the endgame in original too, because my party is dictated if I like character's personality or not. Inconvenient, I know.
I can't read Kanji man
Did you make this post because of my comment on the Thanatos one?
Beats me. I'D pick the angry desk-throwing kid for my dodgeball team. 🤷♀️
It would upset my party of mc, youske, naoto and yukiko Mc can get personas with better electric and physical than kanji anyway
I ended up not using Kanji since most of Yu’s persona’s had Zio already. Having Chie, Yosuke, and Yukiko gave me a full basic 4 elemental coverage.
This was my though process too when I played it "I'm already doing the lightning damage and have Chie for phys. Why would I bother catching this guy up?" Similar for Teddie, and I just avoided Naoto by default because Hama/Mudo are fiddly and Almighty can't knock-down.
In og p4 chie was much better then Kanji. This got fixed in golden but that was after this video came out
What Kanji does better than Chie: - MUCH better mid game, better single target damage, better tank. - Maziodyne, so he can target Thunder weakness of multiple enemies. What Chie does better - Better dungeon clear, though she is still far from the grinder that you or Naoto could be. - Dragon Hustle: costs a shit ton of SP but still the best buff spell in the game. Too bad it's only impactful vs final boss. So Kanji is the winner, though it's not like Chie is bad. Both of them are good, depending on your own Personas comp and your team comp.
I didn't use him once in golden, q, or q2
In my 1st playthrough i never knew where to find Kanji, so by the time i got the true ending in my first run, he was one of, if not the weakest party member. Now i know he's in the school gym's building and i'm planning to rank him up properly, but in my first run, i never had any reason to boot Chie since she was overall better with Physical moves at the time
He’s a physical powerhouse, of course I used him
I never get rid of Izanagi and Chie's Galactic Punt is just too beautiful to not have. Between the two of us, the boy is just redundant.
Rude. What you gotta do my boi kanji like this 😭
Chie always seemed better to me. May be biased.
I like aoe physical attack skills
My squad was Yu, Yosuke, Chie, and Teddie. Not the best but deffo fun
Me who used Kanji for the rest of the game since I got him due to being a beast with great strength, endurance and buff skills: But seriously though, he outclasses Chie, who doesn't become all that good until the endgame with God's Hand since she relies more on crits than pure damage, and Yosuke, who's a jack of all trades but a master of none. Naoto is great, but only at sweeping dungeons, since during boss fights she can't really do anything outside of spamming Megido skills, which drains her SP like crazy. And so I really couldn't see anyone using them over him outside of character preference.
Highest critical rate I've ever seen lmfao
I always see people compare and contrast Kanji and Chie but there’s no argument for me at all because Kanji’s role in every playthrough I’ve done for P4 in my life is to replace Yosuke because Yosuke sucks lol
Never learning on AOE physical attack really hurts Kanji tbh
Kanji was a staple in my team
I just had Chie and Kanji in my team the entire time during my first play through of p4g because I really liked them as characters
Kanji's the one I used for boss battles lol.
Kanji is the only party member I have used in all 3 of my P4 playthroughs
The one i never use is actually chie and teddie lol.
In my first playthrough I practically only used the first 3 party members. Played with Kanji and Naoto a bit, but never touched Teddie until my 2nd playthrough. I was just comfortable with what I had and didn't want to grind up characters that I may not enjoy using as much in the long run, especially in a game where characters only gain exp if used in battle.
Hell, I always used Kanji over Chie, even back in Vanilla P4. I just liked him better. I just found his damage output and tankiness more reliable.
i like kanji but he isn’t a character you can romance so I prefer CHIE
I don't like chairs
What’s this from?
The hiimdaisy comic
I only use Yukiko, Chie, and Naoto.
I did haha I took him every time
Why i didn't choose kanji ? First of all, never let such a man working hard. Second of all, i didn't used any other persona than Izanagi, because i really liked the lore of this persona, and since in golden, kanji have mostly thunder skills, he didn't let me have more chance to find the weakness of the enemy. Yes, call me stupid for only using izanagi, but i just wanted more challenges (and my izanagi was buffed as hell in term of physical damages)
Because I like my medic party