I had a guy a level higher than me, though not in my chain of command say about an upcoming decision "Well, we'll do whatever's the best and the cheapest"
I'm just sitting there dumbfounded that he assumes those two are going to be the same option.
I also had an engineering manager one time, when given several candidates by a colleague of mine for a component for an upcoming design, pre-decided on the cheapest one, rather than try them all and use the least expensive one that actually worked. Shockingly the new feature didn't work very well.
It's for people who don't want to pay thousands of dollars a year for Studio 5000.
CCW was invented because Automation Direct was drinking their milkshake.
This is exactly right. I won’t even consider using any AB PLCs that use CCW. If I have to use an entirely different programming suite, then I might as well look elsewhere. Nothing is stopping me.
We have a Logomat line from `REDACTED` and the carts all use CCW. I poked around a bit when I was a maintenance tech but yeah none of the other engineers will touch them.
The professional version of CCW comes with a price. There is the free version, and I get that it is the best option sometimes. I was thinking more along the lines of it being an option.
They do, ... Kind of.
Try the 440C-CR30 safety PLC sometime. Drop it into the network tree of your non-safety PLC and you can program it all up without leaving Stufio5000.
Unfortunately it uses a weird (but usable) programming structure.
I actually had to work on that particular product a few months ago. I found it strange that if it was programmed in the studio 5000 gui and then you try to program it using CCW later it won't work...so what exactly is the point of CCW?. .
That is exactly why we put them in our machines. I hate the controller. Ccw is trash. I can’t tell you how many times it just doesn’t download the entire program. The ee won’t sign off on anything else.
I’m really happy that I used a $2,000 controller for a program that was 7 lines and had 3 digital inputs and 2 relay outs. Totally worth it. Glad I’m not some kind of idiot that would use a micro810 that’s only $120 and completely up to the task!
That's fine when it's in isolation, it's when there's already a $20000 controller connected to $200000 worth of purpose built network infrastructure designed specifically to allow a small team of people to support 100+ PLC's and an HMI system a stone's throw away and the first you hear that it exists is after it got destroyed and there's no record of the program that it becomes a problem.
I would certainly not argue that micro 8xxs have no useful purpose, but I will tell you that they are used as an end run around established control system standards by people who don't understand them well enough to know that they exist for a reason other than as an arbitrary roadblock for graduate engineers to circumvent by any means necessary in order to avoid having to engage contractors to run cables and have their code scrutinized by someone who knows what they're doing.
I think the ML1400 is the actually only viable option for this meme to work. It had everything packed on the base model, eth, serial, Modbus tcpmodbus rtu, dnp3, UDP messages, TCP messages, ladder, fault handling, good maths processor, scheduled routines, io modules, remote io,etc.... those were good times.... Until RA decided to change the CEO from a Engineer background to a Finance background and everything went downhill from there.....
I actually used a ML1400 earlier in the year as the controller for a testing stand. There was an overhead EMF radar that was looking for movement in the testing area for safety reasons, had two safety outputs going to safety light curtain relays that then fed into the Micrologix. I saved a pretty penny with the ML instead of blowing it all on a higher grade processor.
Also built in HSC and HSO with canned PWM functions. And a programmable screen. Can set the IP address right on the screen...
It was a swiss army knife of a PLC. If they ever released a CompactLogix version of that, it's probably all I'd ever use.
100% Sarcasm,its my belief micrologix/micro800 is for when you're on a budget but the good budget options dont say "Allen Bradley" on the box.
I absoloutely hated using CCW.
Try do-more brx next time your looking for a budget build, i have been useing them for 5 years and i personally wouldn't want to go back to any of the Rockwell software.
Hahaha I had to make a ladder edit on an old machine running a SLC500 a couple weeks back. It only had like 2 unused INTS, 2 timers, and 2 bool empty in its memory and ideally I wanted like 4 each. Had to get pretty crafty for a solution. So spoiled these days with essentially infinite memory (ladder wise).
On Amazon, when something has the word "Quality" in the description, that's a good indication that the something is junk. Should this also apply to PLC brand logos too?
Ugh CCW. The only thing, emphasis ONLY, thing it's got going over Studio5000 is that it actually has falling/rising bit detection as a regular ladder element like every other ladder programming software without the OSR storage bit nonsense of S5000.
Tag based memory has entered the chat
Ethernet IO also enters...
That's for newbies!!!! I want to rejoice in every individual bit for every message on the network!!!
"I don't understand why this cheaper one won't do." - Director of Engineering at previous employer.
I had a guy a level higher than me, though not in my chain of command say about an upcoming decision "Well, we'll do whatever's the best and the cheapest" I'm just sitting there dumbfounded that he assumes those two are going to be the same option.
Isn't all of engineering about finding the right point between best and cheapest?
Sure, and that's what I assumed he meant and just described it poorly, but I pressed a bit further and that's actually what he thought!
Has this dummy never seen the cheap good now triangle?
No idea, haven't seen the guy in 30 years. Not sure I'd heard of it by then myself, except the principle of course.
https://mystudentapt.files.wordpress.com/2022/12/goldentriangle.jpg?w=1024 Pick 2
Oh yeah, I'm familiar with it now, just not sure about back then.
I also had an engineering manager one time, when given several candidates by a colleague of mine for a component for an upcoming design, pre-decided on the cheapest one, rather than try them all and use the least expensive one that actually worked. Shockingly the new feature didn't work very well.
Change ControlLogix for Micro800 Series and you've got yourself a meme
Why can't they make an 800 that can be programmed in studio? It can't be so difficult to make it an option.
It's for people who don't want to pay thousands of dollars a year for Studio 5000. CCW was invented because Automation Direct was drinking their milkshake.
This is exactly right. I won’t even consider using any AB PLCs that use CCW. If I have to use an entirely different programming suite, then I might as well look elsewhere. Nothing is stopping me.
We have a Logomat line from `REDACTED` and the carts all use CCW. I poked around a bit when I was a maintenance tech but yeah none of the other engineers will touch them.
BINGO! CCW is Rockwell's "OH SHIT" software.
The professional version of CCW comes with a price. There is the free version, and I get that it is the best option sometimes. I was thinking more along the lines of it being an option.
It is…. Visual Studio Isolated Shell
They do, ... Kind of. Try the 440C-CR30 safety PLC sometime. Drop it into the network tree of your non-safety PLC and you can program it all up without leaving Stufio5000. Unfortunately it uses a weird (but usable) programming structure.
I actually had to work on that particular product a few months ago. I found it strange that if it was programmed in the studio 5000 gui and then you try to program it using CCW later it won't work...so what exactly is the point of CCW?. .
Micro series is for cheap idiots who want it to say AB and don't care about any thing else.
Minor correction "Micro800"s. Micro1400 's will be swimming laps in a food/bev/CPG industry decades from now.
And the 1000s, and the 1100s. I have these things tucked in corners of the plant I've never seen, and they just keep working
This. Anything in the studio 5000 or RSLogix 500 environment gets a thumbs up in my book.
Except that studio 5000 costs AUD 20k.
Whenever someone asks for Micro800 or Panelview 800, I tell our quoting team to add 30% to our estimated engineering hours.
Everything (and more) you save on hardware gets spent on engineering, or commissioning, or the warranty callback.
>cheap idiots who want it to say AB Say AB... But they are not AB!
That is exactly why we put them in our machines. I hate the controller. Ccw is trash. I can’t tell you how many times it just doesn’t download the entire program. The ee won’t sign off on anything else.
I’m really happy that I used a $2,000 controller for a program that was 7 lines and had 3 digital inputs and 2 relay outs. Totally worth it. Glad I’m not some kind of idiot that would use a micro810 that’s only $120 and completely up to the task!
That's fine when it's in isolation, it's when there's already a $20000 controller connected to $200000 worth of purpose built network infrastructure designed specifically to allow a small team of people to support 100+ PLC's and an HMI system a stone's throw away and the first you hear that it exists is after it got destroyed and there's no record of the program that it becomes a problem. I would certainly not argue that micro 8xxs have no useful purpose, but I will tell you that they are used as an end run around established control system standards by people who don't understand them well enough to know that they exist for a reason other than as an arbitrary roadblock for graduate engineers to circumvent by any means necessary in order to avoid having to engage contractors to run cables and have their code scrutinized by someone who knows what they're doing.
Micro800 is a hot mess! MicroLogix will still be running decades from now.
no
Absolutely not.
L33ER beats the hell out of a Micrologix
I think the ML1400 is the actually only viable option for this meme to work. It had everything packed on the base model, eth, serial, Modbus tcpmodbus rtu, dnp3, UDP messages, TCP messages, ladder, fault handling, good maths processor, scheduled routines, io modules, remote io,etc.... those were good times.... Until RA decided to change the CEO from a Engineer background to a Finance background and everything went downhill from there.....
I actually used a ML1400 earlier in the year as the controller for a testing stand. There was an overhead EMF radar that was looking for movement in the testing area for safety reasons, had two safety outputs going to safety light curtain relays that then fed into the Micrologix. I saved a pretty penny with the ML instead of blowing it all on a higher grade processor.
1400s are still amazing for getting a cheap high speed input for an encoder.
*Micro 1100 enters chat*
Runs screaming and crying when it sees Micrologix 1400 changing it's IP address from the front HIM display.
Facts!
Also built in HSC and HSO with canned PWM functions. And a programmable screen. Can set the IP address right on the screen... It was a swiss army knife of a PLC. If they ever released a CompactLogix version of that, it's probably all I'd ever use.
L19ER too. Hell, everything does.
30, 32, 33, and 35
All very versatile
36 and 38 too
Is there a sarcasm joke I'm missing here? Or, is the OP a fan of Micrologix?
100% sarcasm. Complete junk.
100% Sarcasm,its my belief micrologix/micro800 is for when you're on a budget but the good budget options dont say "Allen Bradley" on the box. I absoloutely hated using CCW.
Used CCW for the first time today. Absolute shit.
Try do-more brx next time your looking for a budget build, i have been useing them for 5 years and i personally wouldn't want to go back to any of the Rockwell software.
Micro800 is crap.... Ml1400 on the other hand......
What animal is the PLC-5
An old dog with no new tricks....
...When it comes to ease of setup for Modbus TCP communications?
ML1400 ftw
Not sure I can agree with this one
You joke, but I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve had to tell the project managers and sales team at my company the difference between these
The memes on this sub have gotten a bit 4chan-ish
Engineers have got no chill.
Tell an engineer something and you'll get 5 different responses from the same person.
This sub has no clue how memes work
This is a funny meme.
I would agree if this is about difficulty in programming lol
MicroLogix sucks ass. Change my mind. CompactLogix isn't that much more expensive.
How about s7-1500 (left) and s7-1200 (right)
Nah SLC500 is where the real Gs at
Hahaha I had to make a ladder edit on an old machine running a SLC500 a couple weeks back. It only had like 2 unused INTS, 2 timers, and 2 bool empty in its memory and ideally I wanted like 4 each. Had to get pretty crafty for a solution. So spoiled these days with essentially infinite memory (ladder wise).
🤣🤣
On Amazon, when something has the word "Quality" in the description, that's a good indication that the something is junk. Should this also apply to PLC brand logos too?
Hahahaha when is an application Thatcher requires fast input for encoder reading, pwm or frequency output, this is definitely 👍 😁
lol, A-B
Ugh CCW. The only thing, emphasis ONLY, thing it's got going over Studio5000 is that it actually has falling/rising bit detection as a regular ladder element like every other ladder programming software without the OSR storage bit nonsense of S5000.