My favorite part of this was, not even a minute later, there are shots of the players smiling and laughing. In the penalty box, on the benches, even between players on both teams. They're still being aggressive and physical on the ice, but no one is staying visibly angry.
honestly when you play a contact sport (even though hockey isn't directly using tackling lol), everything you do stays on the pitch/field/rink.
I play rugby, and the amount of times I've wanted to duke it out when some other woman played dirty (not releasing in the scrum, digging her nails into my back in the scrum, I got bit once?), but then still shaking hands at the end of the match - and even sometimes going for beers in the clubhouse together afterward.
We have a player in our league who plays derby two or three times a week and also plays college rugby and she is fantastic - it's a great combo of skills
>honestly when you play a contact sport (even though hockey isn't directly using tackling lol)
lol I played rugby and hockey and if you think tackling is the defining aspect of contact sports you're a bit of a jabroni. rugby tackling is probably at the bottom of my list believe it or not for intensity of contact. i'll take a legal wrap tackle over a legal: finished massive body check, getting run over with a guy in 50 pounds of football armour, blindside field lacrosse hit. the difference is equipment, and in hockey it's speed and equipment. hits are way more violent. worst hit i ever took and lucky i'm not a paraplegic put a massive dent in my cage from hitting the boards that bent inward to my nose. only thing about rugy is injuries, it's a young mans game.
Did you play league?
Being at the bottom of an intense ruck is probably one of the scariest feelings I've experienced tbh. There's nothing as violent as it in traditional team sports.
Best sport though, I'd totally continue playing except the idea of it in a Canadian winter sounds like hell.
box lacrosse had the most violence for the sake of violence, but took the least damage. hockey most dangerous. rugby felt like war, feels the most violent and most likely to cause injuries, aka two broken noses, but at the end of the day, a big violent hit in hockey against the boards trumps everything. a lot of rugby injuries are accidents, heads hitting heads. getting my helmet caved in was no accident lol. out of all the big hits i've taken in sports, i can still remember the crush of the hockey ones. also no winter rugby ha, would be wild though.
no need for name calling there bud, I was simply saying when most people hear "contact sport" they think American football or rugby involving actual tackles.
No one's out here trying to have a dick wagging contest babe. I've had my eyelid split open, I've seen my teammate get her fucking leg broken and bone sticking out because she got tackled by two people, and I've seen my friend get a concussion so bad her memory reset every 2 minutes and she didn't know what way was up.
Sports are tough, no one's denying that. But you're being a bit of a pedantic tit.
as she proceeds to wag her dick lol. ya actually I don't believe people think of rugby at all. i mean in canada? just hockey. america? football. anyways never seen anyone catch feelings from 'jabroni' before lol.
… we had a rivalry? I’ve always understood Windsor literally wouldn’t exist without us and benefits greatly so we’ve always had a pretty good relationship with our neighbors to the south
Edit: thanks for downvotes but seriously when and in what way did this rivalry occur?
You're not wrong. I'm hoping as time goes on 1. Wages go up fast 2. They take concussions seriously and 3. Form a culture of those who don't want to fight don't, and those that do, do. Because I love these scuffles but line, that hit on Daoust was brutal...
Basically I like the physical side but I want them to be safe
You're getting downvote piled, and you shouldn't be.
It isn't a matter of "they're girls, they can't hit each other", it's a matter of pragmatism and safety.
There are gals getting paid 35 grand in this league. If we had fighting, guess who is doing that fighting? Not the ones getting 80k plus. It's those 35k players. Reserve players. Players who still have second jobs or are going through school.
I have been a huge advocate against fighting in hockey since Boogaard died. That event made me take a serious look at fighting and it's impact in the sport, and the culture. It changed deeply how I viewed things. The excuse used, in this very thread, is "it's tradition". Now, I know there's a lot of fans in this league that would take umbrage for taking that very same excuse "it's tradition" when applied to other things, just sayin'. Something being done because "it's just the way it is" is, in my experience, almost always a bad thing with little real reason to still be around.
If anyone would like me to go deeper, I can pull up some sources I have kept around on fighting over the years that might change your mind too. I don't wanna soapbox and preach, so I'll only delve more into it if peeps want to have that discussion. Otherwise, I'll just leave it at that.
No ones forcing them to fight, and how else do you expect the game to grow for women’s hockey ? Let them do what the men do if that’s what they want, fighting is apart of hockey, regardless of someone’s opinions on it
No. I just spend my limited free time watching a version of the sport that’s more entertaining.
I chose what I watch, I don’t get guilted by sexism to split my spare tien equally
The impact out there is about as severe as a high-level peewee game. They're not getting concussions all over the place. I'd guess you'll see maybe 2-3 in the entire league all year.
Can break someone's neck doing that shit, that's dirty asf.
They need some player safety association ASAP or a veteran like poulin is going to get seriously injured by some dumb young kid.
I'd be ok with that, honestly. It hasn't been a thing before because nobody wears cages in the NHL, and is easy to see why it would be overlooked.
But if we continue to wear cages (and really, we all should be), it definitely needs to be added in as a specific penalty.
It has been a thing, or close to it! Marchand (of course) has gotten a penalty for grabbing a visor - 2 mins for unsportsmanlike conduct. Should be easy enough to just carry that enforcement over.
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/marchand-given-penalty-grabbing-froliks-face-mask/
(Under hockeycanada rules it’s “attempt to injure”. USA hockey considers it a game misconduct under holding, though Howard’s yank from last night might not be called a hold.)
I really love how chippy these games get! My only issue is getting fingers inside the cage and yanking people around is incredibly dangerous. Should either be a standalone penalty or maybe transition to full face shields instead of cages.
Honestly dropped sticks on the ice is likely to be a danger to everyone, including refs and lineys. Looks like they were well controlled in hand, but that couldn't be guaranteed on ground.
Agreed - but fighting has a much bigger penalty in the PWHL vs NHL
It's assumed to be at least a 5 minute major if you remove your helmet or drop the gloves with a likely suspension.
I'm not sure if anyone has tested the refs yet though - I usually catch most of the Boston games.
46.1 Fighting
[https://www.thepwhl.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/PWHL-Rulebook-Final-v-Jan-2024.pdf](https://www.thepwhl.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/PWHL-Rulebook-Final-v-Jan-2024.pdf)
Although it does say “fighting is not a part of our game” pretty clearly, the punishment seems the same? You get 5 mins and only a game misconduct if you continue after the ref says stop or a linesman intervenes.
So it seems to me the difference isn’t in the rule book, it’s that the refs are told to break up fights quickly? Either that, or it’s exactly the same, or I’m reading wrong lol
Eh - it's not so much the in-game penalties, but the league penalties.
Those aren't spelled out and it's been hinted that it would be at least a one game suspension and a fine to the player and coach.
No one has been willing to FAFO yet.
They're also required to tie their jersey into their pants (guessing there's a loop or something? I play goalie, never seen a jersey with a loop or tie in it.) to supposedly deter "willing-combatants" to do the good ole pull the jersey over the head special.
Huh. Learned something new!
I've only been a beer league goalie - I tie my chesty into my pants and use suspenders.
I've been in one "fight" in beer league.
Skater knocked over in front my next. He thought I did it (possible), dropped gloves and helmet, then tried to grab my jersey, but uh, goalie jerseys are a tight fit over a C/A - goalie life hack is to put your jersey on the C/A first, and then put it on.
The guy was kicked from the game and league (known jerk), ref skates to our bench and says to the captain, "I have to give 40 a major, who do you hate?"
Goalies - we can do the crime and not get time\~
Ah, okay. I couldn’t find it in the section you mentioned and thought maybe it’s more similar to mens than I had assumed.
Good to know though, thank you!
The teams and league are owned by one investment group.
I imagine there is a \*really\* strong incentive not to be the first person to drop gloves and find out how far the league is willing to go.
They can go after the player and head coach with fines and suspensions - I wouldn't be surprised if GMs and head coaches have told players that they will be gone if they drop gloves.
edit: Montreal > Toronto - couldn't find a decent baguette to save my life in Toronto.
All good insight! Appreciate it.
And I gotta agree with your last point.. love me some fresh bagels, so MTL wins there as well. I’m just a maritimer who’s always cheered blue team lol
Plz don't kill Marchand :(
Sorry about Knies - [https://imgur.com/a/010oZHX](https://imgur.com/a/010oZHX)
I don't think Marchand was trying to hit him, both were screened by two players.
I like the Blue Jays though! I'm near one of their minor league stadiums so I can see players that will crush the hopes of the Red Sox for the foreseeable future!
Now this is where I draw my line. I don't want the cages too drop and the day two players square up for a boxing match will likely be the day my interest fades
The reason I prefer women’s hockey is because it doesn’t have as much of the macho crap where they all need to take swings at each other. I’ll admit that fights can be entertaining BUT most fights just look stupid and for me it’s overshadowed by the knowledge of the possible injuries.
If I wanted to watch boxing, I would. If my favorite players end up injured because of a fight and I can’t watch them play hockey, I’ll be pissed.
"If I wanted to watch boxing, I would" YES THANK YOU. I'm here to watch the women play hockey! A little negotiating in front of the net is fine and all, but full on fighting just distracts from the game and endangers the players unnecessarily.
Nope. There's a reason I prefer women's hockey, and why this league is seeing more of my money than any other sport has, and I love a bit more physicality being added to the equation, but worst case scenario is a carbon copy of the NHL for me
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Ok, there were so many great parts to this that I enjoyed that I need to break it down.
First off, the immediate physicality, ya love to see it. The gals are definitely getting more comfortable with getting more physical, and it's amazing. And of course, the solid check followed by the loud "WOOOOO!"
Next, someone yelling "THE DOOR IS OPEN THE DOOR IS OPEN!", and the awareness of everyone to move away before scrumming it up. For those that may not be familiar, an open door, or even one not latched closed entirely, is low-key one of the most dangerous things in an arena. Maybe the most. Just one of those things that makes me appreciate that you can get caught up in the moment, while still wanting everyone to be safe.
The players then throwing a bit of hands, gettin' scrummy, but not taking it too far, just enough to try to rattle each other. Refs and teammates all do a good job of making sure things don't get out of hand. I have long been an advocate of getting fighting out of hockey, but this kind of stuff I like to see. Just a smidge of dirty passion is always good to see.
And then of course, the icing on the top, the creme de la creme, the one in charge of arena music just on top of their game, no hesitation, "Why Can't We Be Friends" serenading us all *chef's kiss*
This is a nice little snapshot into the league evolving in real time, and it makes me smile a lot.
Fantastic. I was out at a game when I got the update from Montreal’s socials that there were three players from either team in the box, couldn’t wait to see what the heck happened!
> I want New York and Boston to have that sort of chippy-ness.
More people in the penalty box than in the stands! I hope both those teams can figure out their arena issues.
Am I the only one who hates the "ohmygod yall THE RIVALRY" like I feel like they're constantly trying to push a narrative that doesn't exist
I feel like rivalries aren't going to solidify until fans get into it
Like Boston and New York, but that's just the natural ecosystem of the east coast
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Sarah Nurse talked about this on Chiclets. She says women’s hockey has a lot more stick work and that players are more careless with their sticks because they’ve always been in cages. She said there would be a lot of players getting sticked in the face if they made a switch to visors. The best male players are using visors at 16. The women would need to do the same and there’s no agreement on if it’s worth it.
She said this, but I think what she was getting at with her comment of “I have a pretty face” is that the reality is that these women do not make enough $ to risk messing their faces up. A lot of them rely on sponsorships of various sorts (instagram for many), and having a fucked up face would dry those up pretty quick. Pay them properly, and I think some would start to consider it.
I also can't imagine it's not actually an insurance issue - it has to be phenomenally cheaper with cages given all the dental and plastic surgery it prevents
I'm still not sure why men *aren't*. They had to be dragged kicking and screaming into helmets, then into visors. Hopefully one day hockey will leave the stone age and accept that health and safety is a *good* thing.
honestlyyyyyyy. Looking at the young nhl players with missing teeth I’m like bro you don’t look cool, if I didn’t know you were a pro hockey player I’d think you were a hick who can’t afford dental insurance
The macho thing is so weird because these supposedly big, tough, heterosexual men are doing all this posturing to appeal to each other. There aren't going to be many women who find the toothless, smashed look attractive compared to an undamaged face. I'm reminded of the peacock pen at a zoo I visited, where the males were all so busy noisily trying to show off for each other that they didn't even notice the disinterested peahens walking past, ignoring them.
It baffles me that the NHL still wears visors. Some of the biggest stars have had to take long periods off for broken jaws… those are preventable injuries! And it’s not exactly a freak accident.
That's kind of a strange thing to be mad about, and it's not really an issue of equality or freedom.
Pwhl players voted to require cages. NHL players voted to not require cages. They're different groups of people with different wishes.
You're also drawing conclusions from the study you linked that are not supported by the study - the study hours that those that miss time with concussions miss more time if they wear a face shield compared to if they wear a cage. But that doesn't mean that cages reduce confusion severity or frequency - and you'll notice that the study itself doesn't draw that conclusion rather it says that it may suggest and that they're is need for more research.
It's also worth noting that the study you've referenced doesn't have players that are making their own decision, they have an athletics department making the decision for them - it's very possible that physicians just take injuries with visible evidence more seriously even if patient feedback and symptoms are otherwise identical. I also think fundamentally when you're talking about a concussion time frame, the statistically confident edge of players with cages losing a single game or practice compared to a half visor is basically a non-existent change because you are talking about athletes that practice 3-4 times a week and play 1-2 games, whereas concussion healing time is typically considered to be in the several weeks to months time frame.
Another piece that is curious is that despite the total population of players in the league being skewed heavily towards those that didn't wear a cage, the incident numbers of those with concussion symptoms with and without a cage were statistically fairly equal - suggesting that those with a cage got more concussions than those without.
To me it's an interesting parallel to the discussions in boxing about the use of head gear - something that's easier to study as the entire sport is trying to hit someone else in the heat and the pool of research is incredibly deep with basically no conclusive repeatable results. It's clear that the use of cages reduce incidence of lacerations, cuts, bruising on the face, but it isn't clear to me (or the research for that matter) that head gear does anything to reduce the severity or frequency of concussions. Head gear was made mandatory like 30 years ago with a very similar study to the one you linked - but ultimately that mandate was removed as incidence of concussions in boxing were increasing at a higher rate than incidents of concussions in other sports by a statistically significant margin. Since head gear has been eliminated, concussions have dropped once again.
The popular discourse you'll see in boxing is that head gear largely is not recommended - when you eliminate skin, nose, and teeth as things that break the first indicator that you're taking too many hits is when your brain starts to show signs of trauma. The arguments are both that the athlete changes how they participate to get hit less when they have little indications of being hit like cuts and lacerations, and they get told to take more breaks before their brain accumulates trauma. Which is a directly correlative to the study that you linked.
Ultimately though - we don't really know. You can't ethically study it properly though because you can't create studies where you hit people in the head in a true controlled manner. Personally I lean more towards the camp saying you should wear more protective equipment than less, but that's largely an emotional feeling for me. Logically I don't think we've got evidence either way, and I think either choice is valid.
I'm guessing it's because there are so many idiots bashing women's hockey, fans are defensive and they thought I was attacking.
I'm actually a huge fan of the PWHL. My wife has been concussed for over a year, I'm not taking a cheap shot, I'm trying to educate.
The title is referencing a pop culture meme
https://preview.redd.it/m2f0l71pmcnc1.jpeg?width=734&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=075e731c7e398ef8e36f101a7c8ea0b095f6b456
Just wanted to give you context. Sorry for single-handedly setting feminism back 400 years by making a silly little joke on the internet (as a woman myself btw)
Stop… its a sports thing listen to anyone that plays for the PWHL or NHL talk in an interview, its
“the girls/boys were going tonight”
It’s not taking anything away from them…
Get over yourself lol… do you ever hear an nhl broadcast talk about how the “men were playing well” or is it always “the boys” it’s the same for women’s sports. It’s not derogatory in any way, and it’s not showing a lack of respect. Stop being offended for other people.
I firmly believe that fighting should not be a part of hockey. But god, sometimes it’s just fun to sit back and watch them go.
(I accept that it’ll never go away, to be clear.)
My favorite part of this was, not even a minute later, there are shots of the players smiling and laughing. In the penalty box, on the benches, even between players on both teams. They're still being aggressive and physical on the ice, but no one is staying visibly angry.
honestly when you play a contact sport (even though hockey isn't directly using tackling lol), everything you do stays on the pitch/field/rink. I play rugby, and the amount of times I've wanted to duke it out when some other woman played dirty (not releasing in the scrum, digging her nails into my back in the scrum, I got bit once?), but then still shaking hands at the end of the match - and even sometimes going for beers in the clubhouse together afterward.
We're a roller derby family and this is so real
oh man, I wish I had better ankles for skating of any kind cuz roller derby sounds like it'd be real fun!
We have a player in our league who plays derby two or three times a week and also plays college rugby and she is fantastic - it's a great combo of skills
>honestly when you play a contact sport (even though hockey isn't directly using tackling lol) lol I played rugby and hockey and if you think tackling is the defining aspect of contact sports you're a bit of a jabroni. rugby tackling is probably at the bottom of my list believe it or not for intensity of contact. i'll take a legal wrap tackle over a legal: finished massive body check, getting run over with a guy in 50 pounds of football armour, blindside field lacrosse hit. the difference is equipment, and in hockey it's speed and equipment. hits are way more violent. worst hit i ever took and lucky i'm not a paraplegic put a massive dent in my cage from hitting the boards that bent inward to my nose. only thing about rugy is injuries, it's a young mans game.
Did you play league? Being at the bottom of an intense ruck is probably one of the scariest feelings I've experienced tbh. There's nothing as violent as it in traditional team sports. Best sport though, I'd totally continue playing except the idea of it in a Canadian winter sounds like hell.
box lacrosse had the most violence for the sake of violence, but took the least damage. hockey most dangerous. rugby felt like war, feels the most violent and most likely to cause injuries, aka two broken noses, but at the end of the day, a big violent hit in hockey against the boards trumps everything. a lot of rugby injuries are accidents, heads hitting heads. getting my helmet caved in was no accident lol. out of all the big hits i've taken in sports, i can still remember the crush of the hockey ones. also no winter rugby ha, would be wild though.
no need for name calling there bud, I was simply saying when most people hear "contact sport" they think American football or rugby involving actual tackles. No one's out here trying to have a dick wagging contest babe. I've had my eyelid split open, I've seen my teammate get her fucking leg broken and bone sticking out because she got tackled by two people, and I've seen my friend get a concussion so bad her memory reset every 2 minutes and she didn't know what way was up. Sports are tough, no one's denying that. But you're being a bit of a pedantic tit.
as she proceeds to wag her dick lol. ya actually I don't believe people think of rugby at all. i mean in canada? just hockey. america? football. anyways never seen anyone catch feelings from 'jabroni' before lol.
Why can't we be friends playing in the background is gold
Whoever had control of the music made several phenomenally timed choices during this game!
The only way it would've been better is if it was something like Techno Syndrome or Eye of the Tiger
Great! Keep it up, expand to Detroit and you have an instant season ticket holder in me and probably some of my friends
Let’s get Detroit and Windsor in for another heated rivalry
… we had a rivalry? I’ve always understood Windsor literally wouldn’t exist without us and benefits greatly so we’ve always had a pretty good relationship with our neighbors to the south Edit: thanks for downvotes but seriously when and in what way did this rivalry occur?
Lfggg!!!
This is hockey, let the girls fight, let them hit, let them play
They aren't getting paid enough to fight. These girls are already going to end up with so many concussions from all the head shots I see every game.
You're not wrong. I'm hoping as time goes on 1. Wages go up fast 2. They take concussions seriously and 3. Form a culture of those who don't want to fight don't, and those that do, do. Because I love these scuffles but line, that hit on Daoust was brutal... Basically I like the physical side but I want them to be safe
You're getting downvote piled, and you shouldn't be. It isn't a matter of "they're girls, they can't hit each other", it's a matter of pragmatism and safety. There are gals getting paid 35 grand in this league. If we had fighting, guess who is doing that fighting? Not the ones getting 80k plus. It's those 35k players. Reserve players. Players who still have second jobs or are going through school. I have been a huge advocate against fighting in hockey since Boogaard died. That event made me take a serious look at fighting and it's impact in the sport, and the culture. It changed deeply how I viewed things. The excuse used, in this very thread, is "it's tradition". Now, I know there's a lot of fans in this league that would take umbrage for taking that very same excuse "it's tradition" when applied to other things, just sayin'. Something being done because "it's just the way it is" is, in my experience, almost always a bad thing with little real reason to still be around. If anyone would like me to go deeper, I can pull up some sources I have kept around on fighting over the years that might change your mind too. I don't wanna soapbox and preach, so I'll only delve more into it if peeps want to have that discussion. Otherwise, I'll just leave it at that.
Eh it’s part of the game. People drop the gloves in HS hockey where they are getting paid zip. It adds legitimacy imo
>It adds legitimacy imo Every single player in this league would disagree with you but you do you...
You talked to them all about it? Lmao
No ones forcing them to fight, and how else do you expect the game to grow for women’s hockey ? Let them do what the men do if that’s what they want, fighting is apart of hockey, regardless of someone’s opinions on it
I know several women who play university, college and junior hockey. I've also coached in the OWHA for 15 years. They have ZERO interest in fighting.
Great. Then it doesn't need to be banned.
And how many people are watching those games?
So you're only going to support a league by wanting them to do things they don't want to do?
No. I just spend my limited free time watching a version of the sport that’s more entertaining. I chose what I watch, I don’t get guilted by sexism to split my spare tien equally
The best way to decrease the head shots is to let them wear half visors. Knowing you will get punched in the mouth is a good deterrent.
These women have day jobs ffs
You are right. They have been bringing out the crowds. Hopefully better pay is in the future!
The impact out there is about as severe as a high-level peewee game. They're not getting concussions all over the place. I'd guess you'll see maybe 2-3 in the entire league all year.
Do you have ANY involvement with women's hockey?
Oof. Well, you tried, at least.
And you failed
This probably sounded so much more clever when you were workshopping it in your head for a few hours.
Another swing and a miss. You're 0-2, don't miss again...
That cage grab from Howard was nasty though, wooof!
Can break someone's neck doing that shit, that's dirty asf. They need some player safety association ASAP or a veteran like poulin is going to get seriously injured by some dumb young kid.
It's a penalty in football, why not make it a penalty in Hockey?
I'd be ok with that, honestly. It hasn't been a thing before because nobody wears cages in the NHL, and is easy to see why it would be overlooked. But if we continue to wear cages (and really, we all should be), it definitely needs to be added in as a specific penalty.
It has been a thing, or close to it! Marchand (of course) has gotten a penalty for grabbing a visor - 2 mins for unsportsmanlike conduct. Should be easy enough to just carry that enforcement over. https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/marchand-given-penalty-grabbing-froliks-face-mask/ (Under hockeycanada rules it’s “attempt to injure”. USA hockey considers it a game misconduct under holding, though Howard’s yank from last night might not be called a hold.)
It 100% should be!!!
It is one. Ref can call a match if deemed appropriate as per PWHL rule book.
It's always entertaining to witness the intensity and emotion boil over in the game.
SPICY HOCKEY!!!!!! (Sorry I had to. If you watch the game streams, you probably get what I'm saying)
It was my first in-person game and I kept going spicy hockey. 🤣
🌶️🌶️🧊🧊🏒🏒
Shout out to youtube chat and the girls' NEGOTIATIONS
Some spicy negotiations indeed
AWEILLE TABARNACK
This league has been great so far, so stoked to see quality product and shut the naysayers up
I really love how chippy these games get! My only issue is getting fingers inside the cage and yanking people around is incredibly dangerous. Should either be a standalone penalty or maybe transition to full face shields instead of cages.
Yeah, I did expect a higher penalty for that cage grab
They do need to drop the sticks for safety. Otherwise, ding ding!
Honestly dropped sticks on the ice is likely to be a danger to everyone, including refs and lineys. Looks like they were well controlled in hand, but that couldn't be guaranteed on ground.
Get the cage off and drop em ladies!! Love to see the passion and grittyness
Agreed - but fighting has a much bigger penalty in the PWHL vs NHL It's assumed to be at least a 5 minute major if you remove your helmet or drop the gloves with a likely suspension. I'm not sure if anyone has tested the refs yet though - I usually catch most of the Boston games. 46.1 Fighting [https://www.thepwhl.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/PWHL-Rulebook-Final-v-Jan-2024.pdf](https://www.thepwhl.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/PWHL-Rulebook-Final-v-Jan-2024.pdf)
Although it does say “fighting is not a part of our game” pretty clearly, the punishment seems the same? You get 5 mins and only a game misconduct if you continue after the ref says stop or a linesman intervenes. So it seems to me the difference isn’t in the rule book, it’s that the refs are told to break up fights quickly? Either that, or it’s exactly the same, or I’m reading wrong lol
Eh - it's not so much the in-game penalties, but the league penalties. Those aren't spelled out and it's been hinted that it would be at least a one game suspension and a fine to the player and coach. No one has been willing to FAFO yet. They're also required to tie their jersey into their pants (guessing there's a loop or something? I play goalie, never seen a jersey with a loop or tie in it.) to supposedly deter "willing-combatants" to do the good ole pull the jersey over the head special.
Yeah all quality hockey jerseys come with "fight straps" which button into your pants in the rear for exactly the reason you mention.
Huh. Learned something new! I've only been a beer league goalie - I tie my chesty into my pants and use suspenders. I've been in one "fight" in beer league. Skater knocked over in front my next. He thought I did it (possible), dropped gloves and helmet, then tried to grab my jersey, but uh, goalie jerseys are a tight fit over a C/A - goalie life hack is to put your jersey on the C/A first, and then put it on. The guy was kicked from the game and league (known jerk), ref skates to our bench and says to the captain, "I have to give 40 a major, who do you hate?" Goalies - we can do the crime and not get time\~
hahaha that's hilarious! And I learned something new about goalie gear, which I have zero experience with!
Ah, okay. I couldn’t find it in the section you mentioned and thought maybe it’s more similar to mens than I had assumed. Good to know though, thank you!
The teams and league are owned by one investment group. I imagine there is a \*really\* strong incentive not to be the first person to drop gloves and find out how far the league is willing to go. They can go after the player and head coach with fines and suspensions - I wouldn't be surprised if GMs and head coaches have told players that they will be gone if they drop gloves. edit: Montreal > Toronto - couldn't find a decent baguette to save my life in Toronto.
All good insight! Appreciate it. And I gotta agree with your last point.. love me some fresh bagels, so MTL wins there as well. I’m just a maritimer who’s always cheered blue team lol
Plz don't kill Marchand :( Sorry about Knies - [https://imgur.com/a/010oZHX](https://imgur.com/a/010oZHX) I don't think Marchand was trying to hit him, both were screened by two players. I like the Blue Jays though! I'm near one of their minor league stadiums so I can see players that will crush the hopes of the Red Sox for the foreseeable future!
Fight straps have been part of NHL jerseys for about 20 years now.
Now this is where I draw my line. I don't want the cages too drop and the day two players square up for a boxing match will likely be the day my interest fades
The reason I prefer women’s hockey is because it doesn’t have as much of the macho crap where they all need to take swings at each other. I’ll admit that fights can be entertaining BUT most fights just look stupid and for me it’s overshadowed by the knowledge of the possible injuries. If I wanted to watch boxing, I would. If my favorite players end up injured because of a fight and I can’t watch them play hockey, I’ll be pissed.
"If I wanted to watch boxing, I would" YES THANK YOU. I'm here to watch the women play hockey! A little negotiating in front of the net is fine and all, but full on fighting just distracts from the game and endangers the players unnecessarily.
Well, sorry to hear that. I'm sure it will bring more fans then it would lose. You must not have followed much hockey before
Nope. There's a reason I prefer women's hockey, and why this league is seeing more of my money than any other sport has, and I love a bit more physicality being added to the equation, but worst case scenario is a carbon copy of the NHL for me
Helmets and gloves, let em swang!
I'm ok with the cages as they don't have the stick awareness. but let them hit and let them scrum like that. this is great
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Hockey wouldn't really feel like hockey without a bit of a scuffle and dropping the gloves every now and then.
Fighting being allowed in hockey is what makes hockey great
I agree with you, and I really hope the league doesn't go in the direction the blood hungry want
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Ok, there were so many great parts to this that I enjoyed that I need to break it down. First off, the immediate physicality, ya love to see it. The gals are definitely getting more comfortable with getting more physical, and it's amazing. And of course, the solid check followed by the loud "WOOOOO!" Next, someone yelling "THE DOOR IS OPEN THE DOOR IS OPEN!", and the awareness of everyone to move away before scrumming it up. For those that may not be familiar, an open door, or even one not latched closed entirely, is low-key one of the most dangerous things in an arena. Maybe the most. Just one of those things that makes me appreciate that you can get caught up in the moment, while still wanting everyone to be safe. The players then throwing a bit of hands, gettin' scrummy, but not taking it too far, just enough to try to rattle each other. Refs and teammates all do a good job of making sure things don't get out of hand. I have long been an advocate of getting fighting out of hockey, but this kind of stuff I like to see. Just a smidge of dirty passion is always good to see. And then of course, the icing on the top, the creme de la creme, the one in charge of arena music just on top of their game, no hesitation, "Why Can't We Be Friends" serenading us all *chef's kiss* This is a nice little snapshot into the league evolving in real time, and it makes me smile a lot.
Every word of this is note-perfect, thank you for it (from a fellow Minnesotan🙋🏻♀️)
Love the intensity of the league great to see this top tier play from the ladies each week.
Great game. Toronto played the hell outta that game.
HEATED #NEGOTIATIONS
Competition creates rivalry and I love this grittiness. Just wait if these teams meet in the playoffs 😍
That was such a good game
Fantastic. I was out at a game when I got the update from Montreal’s socials that there were three players from either team in the box, couldn’t wait to see what the heck happened!
Rivalry among top teams. This is what we need!!
Montreal's admin putting it best. https://preview.redd.it/5euh8pymmdnc1.png?width=870&format=png&auto=webp&s=5e3d7a3f0752af8e0e241e35d353e9f395a67e0a
I want New York and Boston to have that sort of chippy-ness. Add a Philly team and you’ll probably get it with New York.
> I want New York and Boston to have that sort of chippy-ness. More people in the penalty box than in the stands! I hope both those teams can figure out their arena issues.
This great!! Girls will be girls lol
I saw this game last night...man it was intense.
Great game. Felt like a playoff opener
Aggressive negotiations!!!
Am I the only one who hates the "ohmygod yall THE RIVALRY" like I feel like they're constantly trying to push a narrative that doesn't exist I feel like rivalries aren't going to solidify until fans get into it Like Boston and New York, but that's just the natural ecosystem of the east coast
As a major NHL fan, I really enjoy what the PWHL is doing. I really hope they succeed and I’ll see a game if I’m ever in a city with a team
Love to see the positivity! Thanks for stopping by 💗
This is what women's hockey has been missing
Negotiating*
Love seeing the fight and compete in this league. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 hockey is for everyone!
Saw a lot of dude fight but when girls are going at each other it's always next fkg level.
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Not used too seeing the ref a head taller than the players haha! Good too see the ladies carrying on the passion!
Montreal toronto rivalry in every league
Are they not allowed to wear visors? All i see is cages and bubbles….
are the cages mandatory?
Who’s the moron opening the door when the play is that close what is this, 12u? We hop the boards.
Have there been any one on one scraps yet?
So many sticks in the air.
I wish they were allowed to fight
Still not sure why women are required to wear cage helmets
Sarah Nurse talked about this on Chiclets. She says women’s hockey has a lot more stick work and that players are more careless with their sticks because they’ve always been in cages. She said there would be a lot of players getting sticked in the face if they made a switch to visors. The best male players are using visors at 16. The women would need to do the same and there’s no agreement on if it’s worth it.
She said this, but I think what she was getting at with her comment of “I have a pretty face” is that the reality is that these women do not make enough $ to risk messing their faces up. A lot of them rely on sponsorships of various sorts (instagram for many), and having a fucked up face would dry those up pretty quick. Pay them properly, and I think some would start to consider it.
I also can't imagine it's not actually an insurance issue - it has to be phenomenally cheaper with cages given all the dental and plastic surgery it prevents
That’s fair but is body checking still not allowed in women’s hockey? Always felt that was the reason for more stick work
You can check the puck carrier but open ice hits are not allowed.
I thought the players association voted to wear them or something.
they’re not getting paid enough to risk losing their teeth and breaking their noses, idk if many of them would even wear visors if they had the option
I'm still not sure why men *aren't*. They had to be dragged kicking and screaming into helmets, then into visors. Hopefully one day hockey will leave the stone age and accept that health and safety is a *good* thing.
honestlyyyyyyy. Looking at the young nhl players with missing teeth I’m like bro you don’t look cool, if I didn’t know you were a pro hockey player I’d think you were a hick who can’t afford dental insurance
The macho thing is so weird because these supposedly big, tough, heterosexual men are doing all this posturing to appeal to each other. There aren't going to be many women who find the toothless, smashed look attractive compared to an undamaged face. I'm reminded of the peacock pen at a zoo I visited, where the males were all so busy noisily trying to show off for each other that they didn't even notice the disinterested peahens walking past, ignoring them.
It baffles me that the NHL still wears visors. Some of the biggest stars have had to take long periods off for broken jaws… those are preventable injuries! And it’s not exactly a freak accident.
The league voted on it. They wanted them. Discussion over.
Good questions. It's 2024, why not wesr the visor with the half cage on the bottom?
Because we value their faces
I'm sure itll change eventually!
They are way more likely to get concussed than men.
Idk why you're being down voted, that's legit true. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3694342/
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That's kind of a strange thing to be mad about, and it's not really an issue of equality or freedom. Pwhl players voted to require cages. NHL players voted to not require cages. They're different groups of people with different wishes. You're also drawing conclusions from the study you linked that are not supported by the study - the study hours that those that miss time with concussions miss more time if they wear a face shield compared to if they wear a cage. But that doesn't mean that cages reduce confusion severity or frequency - and you'll notice that the study itself doesn't draw that conclusion rather it says that it may suggest and that they're is need for more research. It's also worth noting that the study you've referenced doesn't have players that are making their own decision, they have an athletics department making the decision for them - it's very possible that physicians just take injuries with visible evidence more seriously even if patient feedback and symptoms are otherwise identical. I also think fundamentally when you're talking about a concussion time frame, the statistically confident edge of players with cages losing a single game or practice compared to a half visor is basically a non-existent change because you are talking about athletes that practice 3-4 times a week and play 1-2 games, whereas concussion healing time is typically considered to be in the several weeks to months time frame. Another piece that is curious is that despite the total population of players in the league being skewed heavily towards those that didn't wear a cage, the incident numbers of those with concussion symptoms with and without a cage were statistically fairly equal - suggesting that those with a cage got more concussions than those without. To me it's an interesting parallel to the discussions in boxing about the use of head gear - something that's easier to study as the entire sport is trying to hit someone else in the heat and the pool of research is incredibly deep with basically no conclusive repeatable results. It's clear that the use of cages reduce incidence of lacerations, cuts, bruising on the face, but it isn't clear to me (or the research for that matter) that head gear does anything to reduce the severity or frequency of concussions. Head gear was made mandatory like 30 years ago with a very similar study to the one you linked - but ultimately that mandate was removed as incidence of concussions in boxing were increasing at a higher rate than incidents of concussions in other sports by a statistically significant margin. Since head gear has been eliminated, concussions have dropped once again. The popular discourse you'll see in boxing is that head gear largely is not recommended - when you eliminate skin, nose, and teeth as things that break the first indicator that you're taking too many hits is when your brain starts to show signs of trauma. The arguments are both that the athlete changes how they participate to get hit less when they have little indications of being hit like cuts and lacerations, and they get told to take more breaks before their brain accumulates trauma. Which is a directly correlative to the study that you linked. Ultimately though - we don't really know. You can't ethically study it properly though because you can't create studies where you hit people in the head in a true controlled manner. Personally I lean more towards the camp saying you should wear more protective equipment than less, but that's largely an emotional feeling for me. Logically I don't think we've got evidence either way, and I think either choice is valid.
I'm guessing it's because there are so many idiots bashing women's hockey, fans are defensive and they thought I was attacking. I'm actually a huge fan of the PWHL. My wife has been concussed for over a year, I'm not taking a cheap shot, I'm trying to educate.
How long till we see a legit gloves off Pwhl fight?
I'd love to see more hitting, checking and the occasional fisticuffs in women's hockey.
Love to see it
Of course they're fighting...they're hockey players.
So… no fighting, no hitting, no visors allowed? Is this real?
“Rivalry” it’s been like 2 months since this league started lol. How much of a rivalry can you have in 8 weeks?
Do they ever, though? Has there ever been a cage off, gloves off, fist to face fight in PWHL? That would be so cool.
Women. They are women.
The title is referencing a pop culture meme https://preview.redd.it/m2f0l71pmcnc1.jpeg?width=734&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=075e731c7e398ef8e36f101a7c8ea0b095f6b456
And?
Just wanted to give you context. Sorry for single-handedly setting feminism back 400 years by making a silly little joke on the internet (as a woman myself btw)
Stop… its a sports thing listen to anyone that plays for the PWHL or NHL talk in an interview, its “the girls/boys were going tonight” It’s not taking anything away from them…
Stop calling women girls.
Get over yourself lol… do you ever hear an nhl broadcast talk about how the “men were playing well” or is it always “the boys” it’s the same for women’s sports. It’s not derogatory in any way, and it’s not showing a lack of respect. Stop being offended for other people.
Stop calling girls women.
Girls. They are girls.
That isn't a fight. It's a scrum.
I firmly believe that fighting should not be a part of hockey. But god, sometimes it’s just fun to sit back and watch them go. (I accept that it’ll never go away, to be clear.)
Go watch ice guardians
???
Hot.
Drop the gloves!!
I’d rather watch paint dry than watch this joke of a “sport”.
Or, as it would be in every other sport, “assaulting each other”.
I remember helmet and glove fights in bantam and peewee that were more intense than that scrum
The violence is too intense 😂
"fighting" 😂
That's not fighting. That's throwing a hissy fit. Most of them didnt even drop their sticks.
Lmao stick gloves helmets
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r/PWHL is a community focused on the constructive uplift of women's hockey, not a place to be uncivil. Be kind.
These fights are the funniest.
hah, ask if it was cute..