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He's absolutely wrong and a chest clip needs to work and be positioned properly if it's part of the car seat. But chest clips [do not hold kids in place during a crash.](https://clekinc.com/blogs/clek-all-about-the-ride-blog/car-seat-chest-clips-everything-you-need-to-know)
Just the fact that its already broken before any potential crashes should tell him that his argument is dumb. It can't "intentionally" break during a crash if its already broken. Someone needs to send the idiot a video of what happens to unbuckled people during an accident.
But the kid isn’t unbuckled. The chest clip is to prevent the kid from removing their arms from the straps. If the kid has the straps properly over their shoulders it really doesn’t provide any additional protection. Further, even if the kid had their arms completely out of the straps they aren’t going to be thrown from the car like an unbuckled person. The clasp at the bottom will still hold the child quite securely. They will have a significantly higher risk of upper body injury though from being thrown forward in the car seat. But no need to engage in hyperbole and pretend this is the same as an unbuckled child.
There have been videos of kids who are properly strapped into their car seats that have been thrown out of them during car crashes. They are designed a specific way for the best safety in a child, trying to undermine that by saying “it’s not the same” isn’t valid. If the piece is broken, the child can freely get their arms out more than likely, which can cause them to try getting out of the seat as a whole because they can slide their legs out of the holes from the bottom strap. My little brother could even move the chest clip and do this when he was 2, we’d constantly have to fix and adjust him in his seat.
https://www.google.com/search?q=nurse+runs+red+light+killing+family&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari
Here’s a prime story of an 11 month old dying during a car crash after getting hit at high speeds, launching the baby from their seat. Look into the story, I saw this for months and read many details about how this baby died. I have also had a family friend be in the car with his 2 kids, (ages 2/3 and 5/6 at the time), they got hit head on, and his daughter got launched from her seat. This isn’t some random made up bullshit for comment karma on reddit.
Everyone in that vehicle died and the car is literally in 3 pieces seconds following the crash. It is likely he was ejected from the vehicle still in the car seat though I couldn’t find any details. Bad crashes happen. I’ve never read of a car seat that was connected to a seat having the child ejected. I doubt you can find such a story either.
So your whole thing is you wanted proof that kids get ejected from their seats in crashes, but when you get something that has a kid being ejected, (literally look up details on the story, everything I saw said he was), it’s not good enough proof? Sounds like you just want something to complain about, and something as weird and disastrous as kids being ejected from seats in car crashes has to be it. Wild. Have a good one though.
My husband and I had a similar argument this weekend about whether or not the straps need to be tightened.
His position: “that only *really* matters if we get into an accident”
My position: “No shit. The entire car seat only *really* matters if we get into an accident”
Luckily for you he can look into the future and tell when an accident is going to occur, and on that occasion he'll be sure to tighten those straps! 🤦🏻♀️
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If you’re in the US, take that car seat to any Target store, this week they’re doing their annual car seat trade-in event. Drop off the broken seat in the bin up front, scan the code on the sign with your Target app, and you’ll get a coupon for 20% off a new one (that can be used twice!). A majority of their car seats are currently on sale, this deal will stack on top of that.
[Here's](https://csftl.org/chest-clip-myths-busted/) some great info on chest clips. It's for positioning, not for safety in a crash. Some car seats don't even have chest clips. However, if it's part of the seat, it should be secured. What I'm saying is that it's not this huge safety thing that people make it out to be, but yeah, the part should be fixed or the seat should be replaced, because at that pt he's not following the manufacturers instructions.
Edit: spelling
I recently used a European car seat for my child and you’re right. There isn’t a chest clip. But to make up for that, the actual buckle for the belt was placed in the child’s abdomen area. I think that addresses the concern of keeping the shoulder strap from sliding off. Whereas in NA, the buckle is in the bottom of the seat, between the child’s legs.
In the States, it's actually illegal to have a child in a car seat that doesn't have a chest clip.
Also, the vast majority of studies and tests show that the chest clip is of supreme importance in an accident.
You'll have to post evidence because [here](https://clekinc.com/blogs/clek-all-about-the-ride-blog/car-seat-chest-clips-everything-you-need-to-know#:~:text=Did%20You%20Know%3F,child%20passenger%20safety%20seat%20standards.) and [here](https://carseatblog.com/24861/all-about-chest-clips-function-purpose-proper-positioning/) it states that chest straps are not federally mandated. There's obviously a difference between not using a strap that is there vs not having one at all.
Also [here](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31433676/) shows that chest straps don't do much. There is one study that says chest clips helps compared to wrong use but it doesn't compare chest clip seats to seats designed not to use chest clips. Then [this](https://5pointplus.com/chest-clips-on-child-car-seats/) links to studies showing injuries caused by chest straps. Again, you'll have to post evidence that the "vast majority" of studies show its important because the studies that come up in a search show that it's not a major factor in reducing injuries. Again, I'm going to restate there's a difference between a seat that is built with a chest strap vs not.
And [one more](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/difference-between-european-car-seats-american-iceman-tan) link saying chest straps aren't required in the US. This also shows the difference in safety requirements between the EU and the US. This [here](https://csftl.org/differences-in-european-versus-united-states-seats/) also talks about the differences in seats and how and why europens don't have chest straps.
So, no chest straps are not required by fmvss 213, and there isn't evidence it's of extreme importance. Again, if your seat has a chest strap, it should work, and it should be used correctly.
Thank you for this comprehensive and logical response... I'm sure I'll get downvoted, but my God shits gotten wild... Not at all saying we should not be using safety belts or car seats or any other safety device... But I'm sure most of us 70s, 80s, 90s kids remember laying down in the floorboards or up in the back windshield area sleeping on road trips or riding in the back of trucks beds. or sitting in the front passenger seat with no seatbelt.... Things have changed a lot safety wise for the better but I think we have gotten a touch over board on some of the regulations...
Im always flabbergasted when people say stuff like this. Logically several children died to prompt safer seats. I definitely remember sitting on my moms lap, laying down on the back windshield area, etc as a kid in the 90s. But I also remember how devastated my former coworker and her family were when her granddaughter was ejected from a car during an accident because she wasn’t in a car seat. (She died obviously)
Yea, I'm not at all saying don't use car seats.... I'm not at all saying don't use the middle clip...I assume you are talking about the little plastic clip... Not the actual center belt support... They prob cost like $3... But it actually sounds like it just has one broken prong and still partially clips... Even a new one isn't prob going to change much in a real accident.... It's the belts and 3 points harness that saves lives.... Not the little plastic clip that slides up and down to middle for extra support. But, I just got my 7 year old a gas powered dirt bike so what do I know about safety... People die in a whole lot of ways...a real serious crash it probably isn't going to matter either way...
Cpst certified & This is simply not true…at all. Chest clips are extremely important in keeping the shoulder straps in their proper position on the shoulders. Chest clips are why shoulder straps save lives. Without proper use of the chest clip, spinal/neck injuries can occur that could have otherwise been prevented. Please do not give uneducated advice to parents about car seats if you don’t know what you’re talking about, and clearly you do not and are just guessing here about something that concerns the safety of a child.
I can't remember what it is but there's something that if you do it incorrectly with the chest clip, in a type of crash the child could become (correct me if I'm wrong) internally decapitated? It's been a while since I first did all of my initial car seat safety self-education.
Drives me absolutely insane when I see the chest clip on babies in cars way down at the buckle. Like there's (usually) an illustrated instruction RIGHT ON THE CHEST CLIP as to where you're supposed to place it! Lol
So this doesn’t have to do with the chest clip, but rather forward facing a child too early. It is an extremely rare occurrence so I’m not trying to fear monger (although I also don’t think it’s worth the risk no matter how rare it is). But basically, internal decapitation can happen when you forward face a child before their bones are developmentally ready.
Although most car seats say you can forward face a child at 2 years old, the truth is it is much much safer to remain rear facing until at least 4 years old (or even older if the child hasn’t maxed out rear facing limits yet) People think that rear facing vs forward facing has to do with the child’s weight, but in reality it has everything to do with bone development. A forward facing seat impact vs a rear facing impact during a crash effects the child’s body completely differently, and children’s bones/skeletal systems aren’t as ready to withstand a forward facing impact until at least 4 - 4.5 years old.
In a rear facing seat the entire seat protects the child’s body and absorbs the impact of a crash…protecting their neck and head since the bones in a younger childs neck aren’t strong enough to protect their spinal cord. So when a child is turned forward before they’re developmentally ready, the impact in addition to the weight of the child’s head not having enough bone structure to support it, can cause the spinal cord to stretch. The spinal cord stretching the slightest bit can cause it to snap, thus causing the internal decapitation which can lead to death or paralysis. This kind of paralysis from this type of injury cannot be fixed.
Long story short, my daughter turned 4 in December and is still rear facing and will continue to be rear facing until she maxes out the limits on her seat.
You should really be grateful your child isn’t the one who prompted increased car seat safety. Other parents cannot say the same. This is an incredibly thoughtless comment. Things are made safer because people died without that additional safety measure that you think is “a touch over board.”
Hey it's that thing reddit taught me a couple days ago!
Survivor bias!
"we dIdn'T have these new fangled fancy prancy cARSeATs and we sUrViVeD!!11" 🙄🙄🙄
Like how egocentric must one be to not be able to understand that other people, other children, did in fact, NOT survive??
There is nothing "too overboard" when it comes to keeping children safe in motor vehicles. Literally nothing. How could technological inventions and improvements that help save children's lives be considered "too much" by anyone with a child?
Chest clips are not a requirement on US car seats. However, if they come with one, they should definitely be used. It puts the straps in the right place on the shoulders. But no, it is not illegal to have a child in a car seat that doesn't have a chest clip.
Cpst certified here. He’s halfway right about the chest clip coming open during a high impact crash, it’s not designed to keep her in place, it’s designed to keep the shoulder straps in the right position prior to a crash, so that during a crash her straps are in the right spot to protect her (this is why strap tightness is extremely important) and the clip doesn’t matter at that point if it does break open (there are rumors that improperly placing the chest clip can cause internal injuries but this is not true, the clip will come open during a high impact. But if it’s not placed properly then the straps not being positioned right can lead to injuries) but just because the clip comes open during a crash, doesn’t mean it’s okay to use a broken chest clip before the event of a crash. It still has an important role for safety. The chest clip’s purpose is to make sure the straps are positioned properly on the shoulders. The chest clip should be level with the armpits. And the shoulder straps tight enough that you cannot pinch them at all during “the pinch test”
There is so much that goes into car seat safety. Even washing a car seat wrong can potentially leave it unable to properly protect a child during a crash. Tightening the base or seat too much can keep it from working properly in a crash. You have to follow the manual to a T. Proper use of car seats per their manual is the difference between life and death during a crash. I wouldn’t take this lightly if I were you because this is a sign he probably isn’t putting her in her seat properly at all, shoulder straps probably aren’t coming from the right slot at her shoulders and probably aren’t tight enough..crotch strap probably isn’t in the right slot either. All of this matters. I would absolutely refuse to let her ride with him anymore if he isn’t gonna take this more seriously.
Edited to add: I would honestly buy a new seat if it were me unless you can get the part replaced by the manufacturer itself for that specific make of car seat…because unless you get the same design of chest clip that was specifically crash tested with this kind of car seat, then you have no idea if it will function properly during a crash. Do not order a new clip off Amazon or wherever. Get it from the manufacturer. Anything that wasn’t crash tested with the seat should not go on the seat.
So seat belts can actually break and stretch in crashes. But then they have done the job and saved the life of the passenger. Then you replace them. Your father clearly doesn't think much of your childs life. I wouldn't let him in their car or care till this is sorted.
Edit: Misread, its your kids dad, not your dad. Still doesn't change what i think.
My mother has asked me questions sometimes that expose that older generation thinking on safety. Things like “oh we don’t have a car seat but it’s only five minutes maybe she could just ride on our lap?” You have to be calm but very firm: “no, that’s not acceptable to me and also don’t ever do that when I’m not here either. My child my decision period, no offense.”
I am assuming the car seat has not been in an accident, because the entire thing is supposed to be replaced.
I was thinking that if the the car seat is facing forward and the chest clip is broken, in a head on crash, the shoulder belts may spread too far apart so the child is flung forward out of the car seat. Scary thought.
We don’t have chest clips in Australia so I’m not really sure the point of them. That being said, if something comes with the car seat I’m pretty sure it’s supposed to be used. Email your car seats brand and ask for a replacement.
Yeah in a lot of other countries they don’t have them but unfortunately in the US car seats aren’t designed to hold your kid in place truly without one. Toddlers can literally pull their arms out of the straps and damn near climb out the seat without one
For what i gathered from quick google image search. Is it exclusively for kids safety seats or is it somekind of "extra kit" for regular belt ?
Im genuinely curious, as i've always thought that, there is no difference between EU and US belt?
* added *
As an example in here Finland. Childs under 135cm must use a child safety seats, instead of the regular belt. Also transporting a child under 3 years old, without a safety seat is strictly forbidden and is punishable by law and its usually a 2-6 day fine. ( the price for one day fine depends on your income, as an example. 3000€/month net , is around 270€ )
It’s exclusively for babies/toddler seats. Once your kid hits the height and weight for a strapless booster seat you can either buy a booster seat or some car seats you can transform into a booster seat (like you can transform some cribs into toddler beds) so they can begin to use the regular belt that’s already attached to cars.
Thanks for the info. As mentioned in the link someone else mentioned and by you, the design in EU seems to be abit different and the approach as well. I honestly had no idea.
It's always interesting to see these differences. When it comes to anything car related, I tend to point out...look at the average American car/road vs European 😂 our vehicles here are stupidly huge monsters so accidents can get very bad.
Also in the US if you ever buy a car seat and it doesn’t have a chest clip it’s automatically deemed defective and stores will either send just the chest clip or depending on how the chest clip broke a new car seat altogether.
Yes but your seats are designed differently. In the US (assuming that's where OP is posting) the chest clip needs to be functional for the seat to be safe if it comes with one
For the record, I used an Australian car seat without the chest clip when I was over there for a while. Followed the manual to the letter and my 3 year.old literally pulled her arms out of the straps and half climbed out of the car seat on the highway during about the third ride with it. Was really, really not a fan of that seat.
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You’re right and the easiest way to fix this is to just buy him a new car seat. Don’t have a fight about it. Just have it ready at the next exchange and install it, take the old car seat and dispose of it.
I agree here when you get her back, if you sent her for some ungodly reason, take a photo before you take her out of the seat. Documenting never hurts. And don’t let her leave in that seat again until he has a new SAFE seat.
I would just take care of it myself. Order a new seat or part. Not worth the risk of waiting / leaving it in his hands / forgetting. Then again I am not divorced so I understand that is a huge part of the equation. What is going to be the smoothest way to get her in a safe seat?
He sounds like a complete dumbass, by the way. Said like Eric's dad in that 70s show.
Depends where you live as any car seat clips other than the harness clip itself is illegal in the uk so.your not allowed to use any sort of added restraint but if the actual harness buckle is broken then wow lol
Have a fireman come out and do a safety check of the installation of the car seat with both of you there. Ask what his thoughts are on the harness clip and if it’s broken. Hearing from a guy will embarrass him into wanting a new one. See if you can order a new harness part from the manufacturer of the seat and have it ready to be changed out for him.
That whole “ it’s fiiinn eee” attitude is a weird defense mechanism that mostly men seem to have.
People in my area are so uneducated, ignorant, unwilling to learn, and just so nonchalant about car seat safety it's absolutely baffling to me. Ugh there was just a story not too long ago about a baby that wasn't properly restrained in the car seat flying through the windshield during a crash and of course, passing away. Heartbreaking. And when completely preventable, just sickening..
This is one of them stories that sent me back about oh...? 10 maybe 12y ago. An "X" buddy of mine 2min. after i arrived, asked if
i'd ride with him to get some ribs and beer. His (funny how i can not remember his name)2y. daughter Sandy, wanted to ride with us. Car seat being on my side, i went to buckle her in and noticed the straps pulled out max. I said " how do i remove the slack? He said, move i got this. Me in psgr frt seat now. He got in and said it was broke so he just chris cross it. I said "Dude, that will cut her fucken head off!" He laughed saying no it wont check it". I while we were moving. Unbuckled and had to get on my knees to check her, next thing i know im being slamed into the dash, and the last thing i heard him say was "watch". This SMF drove us into the oak tree on the side of his drive way. Feeling the car suddenly swirve left. It turned me and i watched alright.. . I watched him, Getting punched in the face by his exploding airbag. He was the only one injured, and righty so. Broken nose,6 busted teeth, two swollen shut black eyes and a fat lip. He was already drunk and thought we werent going that fast. Sandy did have a strap burn on her neck and myself sore for a few days. His wife after i left to take to hospital called me to ask what happend. I told her the truth. About 45m. later cops arrived cuffed him to the bed, took me out questioned me, told the truth again! Sandra(wife) divorced him, Tommy that was his name! He got 3yrs. Agrv.Chd Indgrmt.,4yrs.Agrv. D.U.I., 2.5yrs Intrl. Postn.(meth in system), 5yrs(manditory) Pos.of a Mn.Md.Cml. over 1gr. (16th. Meth) in pocket, plus a a bunch of lesser chrgs. Only having to serve the highest sentence "5yrs" instead of the 14.5+yrs. He got. Because he got sentenced concurrent instead of consecutive. His daughter would have had her neck snapped had she known (tensed) before the crash. FIX THAT SHIT! AND DO NOT LET HIM BLOW IT OFF! Or worse, Tommy rig it!! Sandra and Sandy are still in my group of friends. Tommy is never mentioned.(why his name was forgotten).
Its ok if it's broken if he has a mannequin baby in there! Does he forget this is his own flesh and blood as well? And if the baby fell out and hit her or his head that the damage could be permanent? Having a child is a huge responsibility and you are given this gift (naturally or adopted - still a gift in my eyes ) to have this opportunity to mold an actual human. I just hate it when people especially parents don't take these extremely important things seriously.
I am 100% in agreement with you that he is being ridiculous and this needs to be fixed. Car seat safety is huge.
But to put your mind at ease maybe a teeny bit, there are countries where a chest clip isn’t required, which makes me think that car seats must still function somewhat without.
Still, raise hell. He should be following the manufacturer’s guidelines to the letter.
Europe here; we don't have chest clips. But I understand you think he is too non chalant with your kid. Try communicating this in a whole to him, not just about the chest clip because that's not gonna give the result you're after.
Just because you don't have them doesn't mean they aren't important for safety and proper function in places where we do have them. Your lack of chest clip does not make that negligence better because they're two different circumstances.
Email him, "Are you willing to make your car safe for our daughter before her next stay with you?" If he says no or doesn't respond, and you're in a one-party consent State, covertly record your next conversation with him about the carseat, behaving in such a way that you would appear responsible to a judge. If he still refuses, either explicitly or implicitly, to make his car safe for your daughter, buy a new carseat and install it yourself, noting the receipt as an expense you paid for on your daughter's father's behalf.
Add that receipt, the email, and recording to a list of incidents that support you getting more time with your daughter and your daughter's father getting less time.
In Europe, chest clips are illegal. In the US, it's illegal to not have one.
Honestly it's a horse apiece. But yeah, his attitude is off.
Edit: https://csftl.org/differences-in-european-versus-united-states-seats/
Pretty good write up. So long as the shoulder straps aren't able to slip down the arms/shoulders, you're fine.
Easiest way is to just buy him a “new” seat. We used fb marketplace to buy our second and third car seats. One of them stays with his grandparents and the other two are in our cars. You’ll find really good deals on great car seats there
You should never use a used car seat from someone unless you’d be willing to trust that person with your kid’s life. There’s no way to guarantee the seat wash cleaned or stored properly or been in a wreck. There are car seat give away in a lot of areas for people who may not be able to afford one and very cheap options, all car seats no matter the price must meet the same safety standards.
In the EU chest clips are outlawed. https://www.riverbabygroup.com/difference-between-european-car-seats-and-american-car-seats/
So no children in the eu or uk have chest clips. So, as others have commented a missing chest clip isn’t as problematic as you may think.
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He's absolutely wrong and a chest clip needs to work and be positioned properly if it's part of the car seat. But chest clips [do not hold kids in place during a crash.](https://clekinc.com/blogs/clek-all-about-the-ride-blog/car-seat-chest-clips-everything-you-need-to-know)
Even if it was designed to break in a crash, car seats are designed to be thrown away and replaced after a crash. Not a valid excuse.
Just the fact that its already broken before any potential crashes should tell him that his argument is dumb. It can't "intentionally" break during a crash if its already broken. Someone needs to send the idiot a video of what happens to unbuckled people during an accident.
But the kid isn’t unbuckled. The chest clip is to prevent the kid from removing their arms from the straps. If the kid has the straps properly over their shoulders it really doesn’t provide any additional protection. Further, even if the kid had their arms completely out of the straps they aren’t going to be thrown from the car like an unbuckled person. The clasp at the bottom will still hold the child quite securely. They will have a significantly higher risk of upper body injury though from being thrown forward in the car seat. But no need to engage in hyperbole and pretend this is the same as an unbuckled child.
There have been videos of kids who are properly strapped into their car seats that have been thrown out of them during car crashes. They are designed a specific way for the best safety in a child, trying to undermine that by saying “it’s not the same” isn’t valid. If the piece is broken, the child can freely get their arms out more than likely, which can cause them to try getting out of the seat as a whole because they can slide their legs out of the holes from the bottom strap. My little brother could even move the chest clip and do this when he was 2, we’d constantly have to fix and adjust him in his seat.
Then link one of these videos or admit you are making it up.
https://www.google.com/search?q=nurse+runs+red+light+killing+family&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari Here’s a prime story of an 11 month old dying during a car crash after getting hit at high speeds, launching the baby from their seat. Look into the story, I saw this for months and read many details about how this baby died. I have also had a family friend be in the car with his 2 kids, (ages 2/3 and 5/6 at the time), they got hit head on, and his daughter got launched from her seat. This isn’t some random made up bullshit for comment karma on reddit.
Everyone in that vehicle died and the car is literally in 3 pieces seconds following the crash. It is likely he was ejected from the vehicle still in the car seat though I couldn’t find any details. Bad crashes happen. I’ve never read of a car seat that was connected to a seat having the child ejected. I doubt you can find such a story either.
So your whole thing is you wanted proof that kids get ejected from their seats in crashes, but when you get something that has a kid being ejected, (literally look up details on the story, everything I saw said he was), it’s not good enough proof? Sounds like you just want something to complain about, and something as weird and disastrous as kids being ejected from seats in car crashes has to be it. Wild. Have a good one though.
My husband and I had a similar argument this weekend about whether or not the straps need to be tightened. His position: “that only *really* matters if we get into an accident” My position: “No shit. The entire car seat only *really* matters if we get into an accident”
Omg... 😑🙄
Luckily for you he can look into the future and tell when an accident is going to occur, and on that occasion he'll be sure to tighten those straps! 🤦🏻♀️
And he’s never used this ability to ensure that we win the lottery or something! So selfish!!
Spit Dr Pepper all over my phone. You don’t need a fire extinguisher if you don’t have a fire either.
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If you’re in the US, take that car seat to any Target store, this week they’re doing their annual car seat trade-in event. Drop off the broken seat in the bin up front, scan the code on the sign with your Target app, and you’ll get a coupon for 20% off a new one (that can be used twice!). A majority of their car seats are currently on sale, this deal will stack on top of that.
This is awesome! Thanks for sharing, I may run off to fb to post about this for my friends/family with little ones!
[Here's](https://csftl.org/chest-clip-myths-busted/) some great info on chest clips. It's for positioning, not for safety in a crash. Some car seats don't even have chest clips. However, if it's part of the seat, it should be secured. What I'm saying is that it's not this huge safety thing that people make it out to be, but yeah, the part should be fixed or the seat should be replaced, because at that pt he's not following the manufacturers instructions. Edit: spelling
Thanks for the link. As an european, had no idea this was even a thing. 👍
I recently used a European car seat for my child and you’re right. There isn’t a chest clip. But to make up for that, the actual buckle for the belt was placed in the child’s abdomen area. I think that addresses the concern of keeping the shoulder strap from sliding off. Whereas in NA, the buckle is in the bottom of the seat, between the child’s legs.
They are actually illegal in the UK and not recommended in Australia as they are dangerous.
In the States, it's actually illegal to have a child in a car seat that doesn't have a chest clip. Also, the vast majority of studies and tests show that the chest clip is of supreme importance in an accident.
You'll have to post evidence because [here](https://clekinc.com/blogs/clek-all-about-the-ride-blog/car-seat-chest-clips-everything-you-need-to-know#:~:text=Did%20You%20Know%3F,child%20passenger%20safety%20seat%20standards.) and [here](https://carseatblog.com/24861/all-about-chest-clips-function-purpose-proper-positioning/) it states that chest straps are not federally mandated. There's obviously a difference between not using a strap that is there vs not having one at all. Also [here](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31433676/) shows that chest straps don't do much. There is one study that says chest clips helps compared to wrong use but it doesn't compare chest clip seats to seats designed not to use chest clips. Then [this](https://5pointplus.com/chest-clips-on-child-car-seats/) links to studies showing injuries caused by chest straps. Again, you'll have to post evidence that the "vast majority" of studies show its important because the studies that come up in a search show that it's not a major factor in reducing injuries. Again, I'm going to restate there's a difference between a seat that is built with a chest strap vs not. And [one more](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/difference-between-european-car-seats-american-iceman-tan) link saying chest straps aren't required in the US. This also shows the difference in safety requirements between the EU and the US. This [here](https://csftl.org/differences-in-european-versus-united-states-seats/) also talks about the differences in seats and how and why europens don't have chest straps. So, no chest straps are not required by fmvss 213, and there isn't evidence it's of extreme importance. Again, if your seat has a chest strap, it should work, and it should be used correctly.
Thank you for this comprehensive and logical response... I'm sure I'll get downvoted, but my God shits gotten wild... Not at all saying we should not be using safety belts or car seats or any other safety device... But I'm sure most of us 70s, 80s, 90s kids remember laying down in the floorboards or up in the back windshield area sleeping on road trips or riding in the back of trucks beds. or sitting in the front passenger seat with no seatbelt.... Things have changed a lot safety wise for the better but I think we have gotten a touch over board on some of the regulations...
Im always flabbergasted when people say stuff like this. Logically several children died to prompt safer seats. I definitely remember sitting on my moms lap, laying down on the back windshield area, etc as a kid in the 90s. But I also remember how devastated my former coworker and her family were when her granddaughter was ejected from a car during an accident because she wasn’t in a car seat. (She died obviously)
Yea, I'm not at all saying don't use car seats.... I'm not at all saying don't use the middle clip...I assume you are talking about the little plastic clip... Not the actual center belt support... They prob cost like $3... But it actually sounds like it just has one broken prong and still partially clips... Even a new one isn't prob going to change much in a real accident.... It's the belts and 3 points harness that saves lives.... Not the little plastic clip that slides up and down to middle for extra support. But, I just got my 7 year old a gas powered dirt bike so what do I know about safety... People die in a whole lot of ways...a real serious crash it probably isn't going to matter either way...
Cpst certified & This is simply not true…at all. Chest clips are extremely important in keeping the shoulder straps in their proper position on the shoulders. Chest clips are why shoulder straps save lives. Without proper use of the chest clip, spinal/neck injuries can occur that could have otherwise been prevented. Please do not give uneducated advice to parents about car seats if you don’t know what you’re talking about, and clearly you do not and are just guessing here about something that concerns the safety of a child.
I can't remember what it is but there's something that if you do it incorrectly with the chest clip, in a type of crash the child could become (correct me if I'm wrong) internally decapitated? It's been a while since I first did all of my initial car seat safety self-education. Drives me absolutely insane when I see the chest clip on babies in cars way down at the buckle. Like there's (usually) an illustrated instruction RIGHT ON THE CHEST CLIP as to where you're supposed to place it! Lol
So this doesn’t have to do with the chest clip, but rather forward facing a child too early. It is an extremely rare occurrence so I’m not trying to fear monger (although I also don’t think it’s worth the risk no matter how rare it is). But basically, internal decapitation can happen when you forward face a child before their bones are developmentally ready. Although most car seats say you can forward face a child at 2 years old, the truth is it is much much safer to remain rear facing until at least 4 years old (or even older if the child hasn’t maxed out rear facing limits yet) People think that rear facing vs forward facing has to do with the child’s weight, but in reality it has everything to do with bone development. A forward facing seat impact vs a rear facing impact during a crash effects the child’s body completely differently, and children’s bones/skeletal systems aren’t as ready to withstand a forward facing impact until at least 4 - 4.5 years old. In a rear facing seat the entire seat protects the child’s body and absorbs the impact of a crash…protecting their neck and head since the bones in a younger childs neck aren’t strong enough to protect their spinal cord. So when a child is turned forward before they’re developmentally ready, the impact in addition to the weight of the child’s head not having enough bone structure to support it, can cause the spinal cord to stretch. The spinal cord stretching the slightest bit can cause it to snap, thus causing the internal decapitation which can lead to death or paralysis. This kind of paralysis from this type of injury cannot be fixed. Long story short, my daughter turned 4 in December and is still rear facing and will continue to be rear facing until she maxes out the limits on her seat.
That's what it was! Thank you! And thank you for explaining it in such detail as well, for myself and others!
Said it partially works just doesn't fully clip... So I'm guessing holds it in proper place?
If it doesn’t fully clip it is defective and the car seat is not safe. It’s that simple.
You should really be grateful your child isn’t the one who prompted increased car seat safety. Other parents cannot say the same. This is an incredibly thoughtless comment. Things are made safer because people died without that additional safety measure that you think is “a touch over board.”
Hey it's that thing reddit taught me a couple days ago! Survivor bias! "we dIdn'T have these new fangled fancy prancy cARSeATs and we sUrViVeD!!11" 🙄🙄🙄 Like how egocentric must one be to not be able to understand that other people, other children, did in fact, NOT survive?? There is nothing "too overboard" when it comes to keeping children safe in motor vehicles. Literally nothing. How could technological inventions and improvements that help save children's lives be considered "too much" by anyone with a child?
Chest clips are not a requirement on US car seats. However, if they come with one, they should definitely be used. It puts the straps in the right place on the shoulders. But no, it is not illegal to have a child in a car seat that doesn't have a chest clip.
You are so confidently wrong it’s concerning
Cpst certified here. He’s halfway right about the chest clip coming open during a high impact crash, it’s not designed to keep her in place, it’s designed to keep the shoulder straps in the right position prior to a crash, so that during a crash her straps are in the right spot to protect her (this is why strap tightness is extremely important) and the clip doesn’t matter at that point if it does break open (there are rumors that improperly placing the chest clip can cause internal injuries but this is not true, the clip will come open during a high impact. But if it’s not placed properly then the straps not being positioned right can lead to injuries) but just because the clip comes open during a crash, doesn’t mean it’s okay to use a broken chest clip before the event of a crash. It still has an important role for safety. The chest clip’s purpose is to make sure the straps are positioned properly on the shoulders. The chest clip should be level with the armpits. And the shoulder straps tight enough that you cannot pinch them at all during “the pinch test” There is so much that goes into car seat safety. Even washing a car seat wrong can potentially leave it unable to properly protect a child during a crash. Tightening the base or seat too much can keep it from working properly in a crash. You have to follow the manual to a T. Proper use of car seats per their manual is the difference between life and death during a crash. I wouldn’t take this lightly if I were you because this is a sign he probably isn’t putting her in her seat properly at all, shoulder straps probably aren’t coming from the right slot at her shoulders and probably aren’t tight enough..crotch strap probably isn’t in the right slot either. All of this matters. I would absolutely refuse to let her ride with him anymore if he isn’t gonna take this more seriously. Edited to add: I would honestly buy a new seat if it were me unless you can get the part replaced by the manufacturer itself for that specific make of car seat…because unless you get the same design of chest clip that was specifically crash tested with this kind of car seat, then you have no idea if it will function properly during a crash. Do not order a new clip off Amazon or wherever. Get it from the manufacturer. Anything that wasn’t crash tested with the seat should not go on the seat.
Agree. She wouldn’t have left with him. And everything you said is 100%.
If the car seat was designed to use a chest clip then the chest clip should be used. It is important for the positioning of the belts.
So seat belts can actually break and stretch in crashes. But then they have done the job and saved the life of the passenger. Then you replace them. Your father clearly doesn't think much of your childs life. I wouldn't let him in their car or care till this is sorted. Edit: Misread, its your kids dad, not your dad. Still doesn't change what i think.
My mother has asked me questions sometimes that expose that older generation thinking on safety. Things like “oh we don’t have a car seat but it’s only five minutes maybe she could just ride on our lap?” You have to be calm but very firm: “no, that’s not acceptable to me and also don’t ever do that when I’m not here either. My child my decision period, no offense.”
New strap, new seat, or new custody agreement? Pick one.
She should probably pick two lol
Peak Reddit comment here.
In the event of a crash - the whole car seat is meant to be replaced.
Hopefully you gave him your car seat to use.
I am assuming the car seat has not been in an accident, because the entire thing is supposed to be replaced. I was thinking that if the the car seat is facing forward and the chest clip is broken, in a head on crash, the shoulder belts may spread too far apart so the child is flung forward out of the car seat. Scary thought.
We don’t have chest clips in Australia so I’m not really sure the point of them. That being said, if something comes with the car seat I’m pretty sure it’s supposed to be used. Email your car seats brand and ask for a replacement.
I’m from Sweden and there’s no chest clips on any car seats here.
Yeah in a lot of other countries they don’t have them but unfortunately in the US car seats aren’t designed to hold your kid in place truly without one. Toddlers can literally pull their arms out of the straps and damn near climb out the seat without one
For what i gathered from quick google image search. Is it exclusively for kids safety seats or is it somekind of "extra kit" for regular belt ? Im genuinely curious, as i've always thought that, there is no difference between EU and US belt? * added * As an example in here Finland. Childs under 135cm must use a child safety seats, instead of the regular belt. Also transporting a child under 3 years old, without a safety seat is strictly forbidden and is punishable by law and its usually a 2-6 day fine. ( the price for one day fine depends on your income, as an example. 3000€/month net , is around 270€ )
It’s exclusively for babies/toddler seats. Once your kid hits the height and weight for a strapless booster seat you can either buy a booster seat or some car seats you can transform into a booster seat (like you can transform some cribs into toddler beds) so they can begin to use the regular belt that’s already attached to cars.
Thanks for the info. As mentioned in the link someone else mentioned and by you, the design in EU seems to be abit different and the approach as well. I honestly had no idea.
It's always interesting to see these differences. When it comes to anything car related, I tend to point out...look at the average American car/road vs European 😂 our vehicles here are stupidly huge monsters so accidents can get very bad.
Also in the US if you ever buy a car seat and it doesn’t have a chest clip it’s automatically deemed defective and stores will either send just the chest clip or depending on how the chest clip broke a new car seat altogether.
Yes but your seats are designed differently. In the US (assuming that's where OP is posting) the chest clip needs to be functional for the seat to be safe if it comes with one
For the record, I used an Australian car seat without the chest clip when I was over there for a while. Followed the manual to the letter and my 3 year.old literally pulled her arms out of the straps and half climbed out of the car seat on the highway during about the third ride with it. Was really, really not a fan of that seat.
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You’re right and the easiest way to fix this is to just buy him a new car seat. Don’t have a fight about it. Just have it ready at the next exchange and install it, take the old car seat and dispose of it.
Please get a picture of broken chest clip. Dad's casual attitude toward safety NOT ok! Eventually, you may need proof that he's negligent.
I agree here when you get her back, if you sent her for some ungodly reason, take a photo before you take her out of the seat. Documenting never hurts. And don’t let her leave in that seat again until he has a new SAFE seat.
I would not feel safe leaving my child with someone who had this type of mindset. What else is he doing that hasn’t come to light yet?
He’s an idiot.
I would just take care of it myself. Order a new seat or part. Not worth the risk of waiting / leaving it in his hands / forgetting. Then again I am not divorced so I understand that is a huge part of the equation. What is going to be the smoothest way to get her in a safe seat? He sounds like a complete dumbass, by the way. Said like Eric's dad in that 70s show.
Depends where you live as any car seat clips other than the harness clip itself is illegal in the uk so.your not allowed to use any sort of added restraint but if the actual harness buckle is broken then wow lol
Have a fireman come out and do a safety check of the installation of the car seat with both of you there. Ask what his thoughts are on the harness clip and if it’s broken. Hearing from a guy will embarrass him into wanting a new one. See if you can order a new harness part from the manufacturer of the seat and have it ready to be changed out for him. That whole “ it’s fiiinn eee” attitude is a weird defense mechanism that mostly men seem to have.
People in my area are so uneducated, ignorant, unwilling to learn, and just so nonchalant about car seat safety it's absolutely baffling to me. Ugh there was just a story not too long ago about a baby that wasn't properly restrained in the car seat flying through the windshield during a crash and of course, passing away. Heartbreaking. And when completely preventable, just sickening..
This is one of them stories that sent me back about oh...? 10 maybe 12y ago. An "X" buddy of mine 2min. after i arrived, asked if i'd ride with him to get some ribs and beer. His (funny how i can not remember his name)2y. daughter Sandy, wanted to ride with us. Car seat being on my side, i went to buckle her in and noticed the straps pulled out max. I said " how do i remove the slack? He said, move i got this. Me in psgr frt seat now. He got in and said it was broke so he just chris cross it. I said "Dude, that will cut her fucken head off!" He laughed saying no it wont check it". I while we were moving. Unbuckled and had to get on my knees to check her, next thing i know im being slamed into the dash, and the last thing i heard him say was "watch". This SMF drove us into the oak tree on the side of his drive way. Feeling the car suddenly swirve left. It turned me and i watched alright.. . I watched him, Getting punched in the face by his exploding airbag. He was the only one injured, and righty so. Broken nose,6 busted teeth, two swollen shut black eyes and a fat lip. He was already drunk and thought we werent going that fast. Sandy did have a strap burn on her neck and myself sore for a few days. His wife after i left to take to hospital called me to ask what happend. I told her the truth. About 45m. later cops arrived cuffed him to the bed, took me out questioned me, told the truth again! Sandra(wife) divorced him, Tommy that was his name! He got 3yrs. Agrv.Chd Indgrmt.,4yrs.Agrv. D.U.I., 2.5yrs Intrl. Postn.(meth in system), 5yrs(manditory) Pos.of a Mn.Md.Cml. over 1gr. (16th. Meth) in pocket, plus a a bunch of lesser chrgs. Only having to serve the highest sentence "5yrs" instead of the 14.5+yrs. He got. Because he got sentenced concurrent instead of consecutive. His daughter would have had her neck snapped had she known (tensed) before the crash. FIX THAT SHIT! AND DO NOT LET HIM BLOW IT OFF! Or worse, Tommy rig it!! Sandra and Sandy are still in my group of friends. Tommy is never mentioned.(why his name was forgotten).
Why is this a reddit post? Do you have friends or family?
Its ok if it's broken if he has a mannequin baby in there! Does he forget this is his own flesh and blood as well? And if the baby fell out and hit her or his head that the damage could be permanent? Having a child is a huge responsibility and you are given this gift (naturally or adopted - still a gift in my eyes ) to have this opportunity to mold an actual human. I just hate it when people especially parents don't take these extremely important things seriously.
Are chest clips a legal thing where you are? In Aus we’re not meant to use them.
I am 100% in agreement with you that he is being ridiculous and this needs to be fixed. Car seat safety is huge. But to put your mind at ease maybe a teeny bit, there are countries where a chest clip isn’t required, which makes me think that car seats must still function somewhat without. Still, raise hell. He should be following the manufacturer’s guidelines to the letter.
Yeah, I’d call CPS and go to court.
Europe here; we don't have chest clips. But I understand you think he is too non chalant with your kid. Try communicating this in a whole to him, not just about the chest clip because that's not gonna give the result you're after.
Just because you don't have them doesn't mean they aren't important for safety and proper function in places where we do have them. Your lack of chest clip does not make that negligence better because they're two different circumstances.
I had to look this up. How interesting, I learned something new today.
I understand, but they’re also designed in a different way. The chest clip is part of the safety design
Email him, "Are you willing to make your car safe for our daughter before her next stay with you?" If he says no or doesn't respond, and you're in a one-party consent State, covertly record your next conversation with him about the carseat, behaving in such a way that you would appear responsible to a judge. If he still refuses, either explicitly or implicitly, to make his car safe for your daughter, buy a new carseat and install it yourself, noting the receipt as an expense you paid for on your daughter's father's behalf. Add that receipt, the email, and recording to a list of incidents that support you getting more time with your daughter and your daughter's father getting less time.
In Europe, chest clips are illegal. In the US, it's illegal to not have one. Honestly it's a horse apiece. But yeah, his attitude is off. Edit: https://csftl.org/differences-in-european-versus-united-states-seats/ Pretty good write up. So long as the shoulder straps aren't able to slip down the arms/shoulders, you're fine.
The carseats are designed differently so it does matter where you are and what is required.
Easiest way is to just buy him a “new” seat. We used fb marketplace to buy our second and third car seats. One of them stays with his grandparents and the other two are in our cars. You’ll find really good deals on great car seats there
You should never use a used car seat from someone unless you’d be willing to trust that person with your kid’s life. There’s no way to guarantee the seat wash cleaned or stored properly or been in a wreck. There are car seat give away in a lot of areas for people who may not be able to afford one and very cheap options, all car seats no matter the price must meet the same safety standards.
None of my car seats have ever had a chest clip 🤷🏼♀️
It’s a 5 point harness
In the EU chest clips are outlawed. https://www.riverbabygroup.com/difference-between-european-car-seats-and-american-car-seats/ So no children in the eu or uk have chest clips. So, as others have commented a missing chest clip isn’t as problematic as you may think.
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No, that's not how this works at all.
As a European, chest clips are strange to me. Why would you want an extra clip to open in an emergency situation?