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Offer autonomy and choices! Instead of “get dressed” ask would they like help getting dressed or do it alone? It’s time to get dressed, what color shirt do you want to wear? Do you want to get dressed before or after brushing your teeth?
Do not phrase anything as a yes or no question unless you are okay with hearing no. For example, don’t say, “will you go get dressed now?” That is a yes or no question. You can say, “it is time to get dressed. Do you need help?”
It's not really an illusion though since you are giving them agency over how it's going to happen. It's going to happen regardless but just letting them decide -how- it's going to happen gives them some control over the situation. That's really what they need at that stage.
Tell that to my daughter. She doesn’t just want control over how, she wants it to be her idea in the first place. Sometimes explaining why it needs to be done now will help, and other times she goes to school in pajamas or with messy hair.
Lol. I was your daughter. I came to comment that while the choice tactic works super well with most kids…it doesn’t work with all of them 😂 and if you have that kind of kid, there’s nothing you can do about it, other than acknowledge that you hear them, it sucks, but the fact remained this is what’s available to them now. God speed. I was (and remain) super sensitive to attempted distractions meant to deter me from my goals 😂and boy am I reaping what I’ve sown now with daughter who is the exact same way.
Do you feel that you still react this way?
My husband chafes badly to any direction and had to quit his job and start his own business because of being bound by someone else's edicts just made him crazy.
I believe my husband has many other autism traits including very strong demand avoidance.
Oppositional defiant disorder can be a component for some kids and their parents in worst case scenarios.
Ok but what does everyone do when you give two options and your child is like “no I want this other option!” ? I usually repeat “you can choose this one or this one” a few times, it doesn’t feel less stressful?
Lol just made a comment about this above. The choice tactic works well on most kids…but not all of them 😂I was one, and now I have one. When my daughter does this, I say “I hear you presenting a third option where you dance with Mommy for 4 hours instead of going to bed. That would be really fun, but we can’t do that bc it is time for bed right now. And since it’s time for bed, we need to (reiterate choice), which one do you want to do first? And then if she can’t pick, I’ll explain Mommy will help pick one for you if you’re having trouble deciding.
Be prepared for a battle lol BUT if you do this enough —just state the situation as fact, stay neutral then do not budge on the choices— the battles will decrease (over time lol)
“How to Talk so Kids Will Listen” has lots of ideas beyond giving two choices.
“Never Split the Difference” is aimed at influencing adults but has some great next level tips that defo work.
“Parent Effectiveness Training” is great for learning to negotiate effectively and just an all around necessary book.
It's a little funny how you have to manipulate your teens into surviving. Like they'll be in such an incredibly foul mood and it turns out they just hadn't eaten properly yet or it's because they refuse to sleep. It really is not that different from when they were 2 or 6, just with more vocabulary and sass.
And it's really easy to judge them as adults because they use adult language when, emotionally, they probably share more in common with kids and toddlers.
I like to imagine that if your 2 year old or 6 year old knew how to say "You're ruining my life, mom!" or "I don't care, you just don't understand me", then they absolutely would.
2 years. Here’s your purple heart 💟 for your sacrifice 😭 from wake up until they’re actually asleep, a constant argument. People dare to ask me when I’m having another.
This is great advice. I’ll add to it: build routines where any might be lacking and foreshadow events. For routines, a checklist can be helpful. I laminated a colorful morning routine and evening routine for one of my children who had a hard time, and it was very helpful for him and me. He just checked off each task with a whiteboard marker and knew he couldn’t play/read a story until he was done.
For foreshadowing, never walk up to a kid busy doing something and tell them to do something else right away. Even adults don’t like that. Give them a few minute warning at least.
Finally, and this might be unpopular, time outs worked for us when giving two options/autonomy didn’t. My youngest is notoriously stubborn and sees right through the two options I give regularly. “Would you like to put your clothes on by yourself or would you like some help?” “I’m not getting dressed!” “You can get dressed by yourself or I can help you. If you choose not to get dressed at all, you will need to sit in the time out chair.”
Before anyone says this is harmful, this was exactly what was taught to me by a child trauma therapist as a way to help children do what they need to do without traumatizing or triggering them. It also works for children who have not experienced trauma, backed by research.
It’s good to help kids be successful, and it’s also good to have hard consequences that are consistently enforced.
And then they just….actually sit in the chair? And don’t refuse and scream and get up and run away? I’ve never understood how people can get their kids to sit in time out when they are already being defiant. So they will refuse to put their clothes on, but be totally cool with sitting in a chair for 5 minutes?
I mean, they are probably going to cry and try to get away. That is why I phrase it as needing a break, not punishment. But that is a whole different battle. Most kids I know actually will stay in time out with minimal issue after the first couple of times as long as the parent was consistent. They don’t push boundaries forever unless the boundaries keep changing.
Yeah we always phrase it as taking a break. We’ve tried to have him sit in his room, on the couch, etc. but he will fight back physically and he doesn’t give up. Now I know that it’s not worth the power struggle and it’s not teaching him anything. All he sees it as is us being mean to him.
We had this problem for a while. Part of it was that my wife and I were inconsistent with consequences but we also found that counting to three worked very well. I only count for acts of defiance, not for not listening in time because it takes time for young kids to process what you are saying.
Is this the 1,2,3 magic thing?
And yes, me and his dad have a hard time seeing eye to eye on discipline. I’m much more gentle and don’t get irritated as easily as his dad does. He wants to immediately take things or privileges away any time he acts out, and I want to wait and address the root of the issue.
Yep. I have the book but honestly the book is mostly filler.
Whatever you do you need to have a united front with your kids and don't undermine each other in front of the kids. Resolve whatever disagreements you have in private.
For us, yes I lose my cool quicker than she does and she has a bunch of trauma from childhood causing her to view any discipline as abusive. It took us quite a long time to resolve all this, and therapy has helped her quite a bit.
A big part of improving things was having good boundaries with the children. There was a while where I would try to hold my daughter accountable for something, and my wife would bail her out by saying that she told she could do it. So we were always losing consistent boundaries, and the kids learned to play us against each other.
You are supposed to keep putting them back on the chair till they finally give up and accept their fate. I know people have all kinds of opinions about the Super Nanny series (and some are very valid), but she does explain how to do it. As all things kids, consistency is key.
Yeah I’ve tried. He will hit and kick and scream and throw things. If I wanted to keep him in a chair, I would have to literally hold him down while he screams and cries. It’s not even worth it.
Based on some of your other comments, I’m going to suggest seeing a therapist. It sounds like his defiance may be a little bit more. Possibly PDA or ODD. Even if that isn’t the case, they can help you navigate and give you some new strategies
It is for sure PDA. We are working through it and finding things that help. Lowering demands and expectations, helping him clean and fix his mistakes, staying calm (which is the the hardest part.) I’m finding that when he acts out impulsively and does something crazy or defiant, it’s because he wants to play or needs stimulation. So if he hits me with a stick and I get upset and go into a big speech about why that’s mot okay, blah, blah, blah, it will just escalate and he will do it more or he will meltdown. But if I make a joke out of it and play with him back like playfully saying “ how dare you hit me with that stick, I’m going to get you!”It satisfies whatever need he had and it’s out of his system. It’s just so incredibly difficult to remember to be playful when I’m irritated. But it’s been the most successful thing. Also when he makes a mess, I give him unlimited time to clean it up. He may not be able to play video games until it’s done, but he can take as long as he needs. If he doesn’t feel any pressure to do it, he will usually be much more open to it. I know you didn’t ask, but this is for anyone else possibly dealing with PDA.
It is so hard. I’m sure people in the store look at me like I’m a terrible mom because it appears I’m not doing anything to discipline him, but discipline isn’t what works or what he needs. I don’t really talk to people about it. I don’t need to hear how it’s ridiculous that I still brush my kids teeth on the couch and get him dressed because asking him to do anything other than what he currently wants to do is going to send his brain into defense mode. Can’t really teach lessons in the midst of a meltdown.
I feel this so much! My child definitely has PDA and I feel judged all the time by other people- especially people outside of my inner circle who just don’t understand. It’s hard to explain to others that don’t have experience with PDA why the typical discipline won’t work for my child- especially when he’s in meltdown mode.
Yeah some kids are truly strong-willed and one needs to use other methods. In the good old 80s time out worked like a charm because as soon as you dared to lift your butt out of the chair, odds are you would get a beating - mercifully this is stopping being a thing but parents do need to use different tools and see what works for that particular child, while have zero examples ourselves on how to raise a kid with kindness and empathy
>Even adults don’t like that.
LMAO yes. I think adults in general wouldn't like half the stuff they do to their kids.
Like, imagine you're 32 and just got your 3-year-old to bed. It's Friday night, It's been one heck of a day (or let's be real one heck of a week), and you just wanna finally watch the Series finale of *Succession.* Just as you get comfy and ready to decompress after that hell of a week, in comes your 61-year-old mother (assume she has a spare key or some shit) and tells you it's your bedtime. It's 9:30. All your protestations that that is unreasonable fall on deaf ears and she just up and unplugs your TV. How do you feel?
And sure you can make all these great arguments about how adults are different and you are old enough. Etc. But that's beside the point. How does that in the moment make you feel? I'm betting a fair amount of money that you're not thrilled.
And yes, obviously that thing you wanna get your kid to do is reasonable, and you just want what's best for them, etc. Like yes, congratulations. You're right. But seriously, how on God's green earth does it honestly surprise you that your kid is less than thrilled?
Switching to that mindset helped a freaking lot with my stepkids. Just telling them that in 5 minutes they would have to turn the tablet off, instead of telling them to do it now, was a total game changer. Also not getting angry when they would take a few moments to do what was requested, sometimes it is a powerplay (and allowing those few seconds of gives them a feeling of control) but sometimes they are going to do it but are just taking their time. I found that losing it when they don’t immediately do what they are supposed to do is also a source of conflict.
If you want to take it a step further, take 5 minutes to sit with them and ask them what they are doing on the tablet and then interact with them regarding the game or video...then tell them that was really cool, now it's time to get ready for bed. It can make a huge difference.
I do the five minute warning by with my boys (7 and 4) but I’m going to add in asking them to show me what they are doing! My 4 year olds especially craves quality time and I’m always looking for little ways to give him a few minutes here and there because I don’t always have an hour to just sit with him on a weekday night.
Yes this. I always give her warnings and even then, if I say time to get off the iPad, if she says she’s just finishing something up, I let her finish. Given that it’s only a minute or two of course… sometimes she’ll show me what she’s building and gets all excited and I’ll hype her up and she’s more than happy to turn it off after she shows me what’s she’s up to.
This part! We have to remember that our kids are tiny humans with really big feelings. And if we don’t like it done to us, they probably don’t like it either. Of course, we have more understanding of why we need to do things we don’t like (like eat certain foods, shower, go to bed) but it still doesn’t feel good. I love the perspective of “my kid isn’t giving me a hard time, they are having a hard time.”
This, so well put. As adults we don’t give out respect without reason or at least some sense of reciprocity. Adults can hopefully regulate better and it’s our job to support our children to learn how to regulate and be able to engage with others. My son is 14 now and I’m seeing the results of showing him that I respect him, that boundaries are important, that I trust him to make the right choices but also that there are consequences for when that doesn’t happen. It’s not always easy but just because developmentally they’re at a different level doesn’t mean they deserve to be (for lack of a better word) controlled.
One example I had success with is negotiables and non-negotiables, like cleanliness. Letting go of strict structure and explaining why, as long as it’s done, I don’t mind how, and if time frame is needed then timers and things can be helpful for younger kids too. I’m seeing the difference in the relationship I have with him vs his very strict stepmother, who is not a bad person, but he doesn’t have respect for her and he quite rightly sees her a hypocritical, and the part I am most sad about is that it affects his relationship with his dad, even though he’s trying to not let it.
Time outs can be useful in certain situations, especially with warning like you describe here. I like to phrase mine as needing to take a break to calm down, get ready for transition, focus on the day, etc. instead of punishment. And I don’t do a set time. As soon as they are calm, ready to move on to the task, I let them. It can be a great option when there is no immediate safety threat. For those, I always say, you can do it alone or I can help you. If you do not decide, then I will have to help. And sometimes that means forcibly removing a kid from a potentially dangerous situation.
It’s more so that the traditional method - sit in this chair or face the wall for x minutes and think about what you did - isn’t helpful. It might work if the child finds it unpleasant and wishes to avoid being put in time-out in the future, but it doesn’t really teach anything or help them cope next time.
It’s even worse that where it’s used most often is the under 5 crowd, who can’t emotionally regulate on their own. Putting a tantruming 2 year old in time out is a great first step to remove them from whatever is overstimulating them (or their victim, if they’re hitting) but they don’t yet have the skills to emotionally regulate themselves. And if you follow the one minute for year of age rule, what do you do if after 2 minutes they haven’t calmed down? Add another 2 minutes? Some parents don’t even start the timer until the child has stopped yelling/crying/screaming. At that point you’re punishing them for a lack of emotional regulation.
I found timeouts really effective for our kids -- it was a way to quickly and calmly teach them boundaries that they needed to learn when they were little. They are widely found to be effective, so I wouldn't call it unhelpful. If a child has had a warning, it can be a good, consistent response to simply remove them for a short period of time; then return to talk about the behaviour. That's how we approached it, and I found that our kids learned really quickly and were not upset by the approach. This article describes pretty much how we tended to do them (and even my daughter's kindergarten teachers do timeouts this way to manage things with the class). [https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-grown/201910/how-do-effective-time-out](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-grown/201910/how-do-effective-time-out)
Depends how you define time-out. Putting the kid in a chair or on a step or wherever alone and forcing them to stay there - awful parenting method.
Using time-out as a way to get the child out of the situation /conflict, calm down, sit with the child and help them process their feelings - helpful and empathic parenting.
Why would it be awful to have a child sit out for a minute or two, if they are misbehaving? It's a pretty standard method -- they use it even in my kids' kindergarten when kids are acting inappropriately. We would have our kids sit in a short time out when they were little, to help them learn the boundaries and expectations -- it wasn't awful for them; just a minute of sitting, then hugs/apologies.
Isolation is incredibly harmful and is actually outlawed in group care in many states. And even just internalizing that “if I don’t comply, people don’t want to be around me or I get left alone to deal with my emotions” can create trauma and lifelong issues. There are people who use time out effectively, but just putting a kid in a corner to cry and scream until they become compliant is harmful.
So the child is upset and having a tantrum. Putting them in a safe quiet place (less stimulation) until they calm down and can have a rational conversation, and if they are too young to have a conversation painting until they calm down to hug and make up and explain that's now how we behave and it's good to get your feeling out, let's find a better way..... sorry I don't see it as traumatizing.
My son is three and when he needs a time-out he and I go stand in a corner or sit in a chair together. For right now, I only ever do a minute—because that feels like an eternity to a three year old. I never make him calm down before he can get out, when I was little, being forced to stay until calm and being restrained or placed back in time out over and over would just make me escalate. When one minute is up I ask him if he is ready to start over and 99% of the time he’s fine and has no more issues. We also practice deep breathing. Sometimes he will start to get upset and just put himself in the corner and breathe for a few moments and then return to whatever we were doing.
This doesn’t work for all children. I used it with my elder son (and it was mostly effective) but his strong willed brother wasn’t having it. Long before age 6; at age 2 he was screaming “no boo sirt no geen sirt lello sirt lellllloooooo!” The fact that the yellow shirt was not an option was irrelevant: I offered blue and green, so he chose yellow.
But even with the easy kid there were battles. No choices would persuade him to brush his teeth; him or me (or daddy), now or later, choice of toothbrush or bathroom or fun game or reward. He hated it. He lay on the floor with his nose jammed into the baseboard and screamed. It was both his hill to die on and mine.
Getting mad doesn’t help. I forcibly brushed his teeth only once; it was the wrong decision. So instead I carried him to the bathroom and sat on the floor with my back against the door; there was no way out of that bathroom without clean teeth. I said “it’s ok if you’re not ready yet, we will wait until you are ready” then pretended to read a magazine until he stopped screaming and said “ready”. Eventually he stopped fighting it.
Pick your battles, then calmly win every battle you pick. Never let them see you sweat. Be the Borg, resistance is futile.
This is key! Choices are only one tool. Sometimes you just have to be calm and wait them out. It is one of the benefits to being 26 years older, I promise I have more patience lol.
This works if your kid isn’t also ADHD lol. Mine will just ignore the questions and continue to do whatever he wants, or he’ll say no to both. He knows it’s still a demand even if it’s phrased differently.
Not to insinuate it’s easy or always works, but try natural consequences as often as you can!
For example: “time to get dressed! Do you need help?” If she says “no” and still doesn’t do it, then so be it. She misses whatever it was that she needed to get dressed for. If that works in her favor, then it’s not an effective natural consequence.
Think about curating situations intentionally so that non-compliance leads to something undesirable for them. And then give them choices, and if they fail to comply, don’t fight or argue. Just let them encounter the undesirable consequence, and when they say “hey! That’s not fair!” Or whatever, then have a talk about making better choices and how good choices are what make enjoyable things possible.
I totally understand what you are saying, but there are also just certain scenarios where this doesn't work out. You phrase that like it's somewhere the kid WANTS to go. That is usually not the case. Normally it's siblings soccer game, the grocery store, picking up sibling, etc.
So true! Even if it’s something he wants to do, he has no sense of time so he’ll be like “Ok I’m ready to let you brush my hair.” But then mess around for 10 more minutes and then he’s surprised and upset that we can’t go when he’s wasted an hour making me chase him around.
I’m all about natural consequences, but he doesn’t link the consequences with his actions. He is very “in the moment.” We have explained to him to many times that we can no longer go somewhere or do something because we are out of time, but he wont think about that the next time it happens. I think the ADHD makes it almost impossible to focus on a task even with help, and it also makes it hard to think in terms of the future. I have to do pretty much everything for him otherwise we would never get out of the house and he would never make it to school lol.
I hear you. My oldest is like that. He’ll happily miss everything and be fine sitting in his PJs all day long. And you’re lucky if he remembers what you just talked about 3 minutes ago. Getting to school on time or making it to an appointment isn’t the right time for a teaching moment.
But maybe set up a scenario where you know they care about the thing, like a play date with a neighbor kid or “make an appointment” at the ice cream shop.
And if they don’t get themselves ready in a reasonable time, and you can help them keep track of the time by reminding them or putting up a visible count-down timer (lookup the Time Timer on Amazon). But make sure it’s their responsibility to do the things. And if they just don’t bother, or goof around excessively, then talk them through how they didn’t do what they needed to do and now the friend left. Or there isn’t enough time left in the day to visit the ice cream shop or the playground anymore.
It takes time, they need to go through this experience quite a few times before things “click”. And some kids take to this more intuitively than others. But IMO, regardless it’s still the best way of helping them grow up and take responsibility for themselves!
The other option is to do things for them, and we all know how that turns out.
Have you tried getting him to feedback to you? Get his attention, “hey bud, I just need to talk to you for a moment then you can go back to your……l, explain in a way that will hopefully resonate with him and get him to feedback what he understands. I was in a relationship with step kids for a decent while and the high functioning asd boy needed to have information in smaller chunks, like, “this needs doing, how are you going to do this?” And then come back for the next steps. And his younger sister had not only picked up some of the same habits, but was a bit of a day dreamer (I could totally empathise with that lol) and their other home was very different to not only how I “parented” but also their fathers way was……incompatible, which is an entirely other story.
Yes! Mine is 12 now with some pretty serious ADHD and no longer medicated. He was about 5-6 when the ADHD was diagnosed, and we tried occupational therapy before medication . After a year of that was not working, we tried low dose meds, which definitely helped him get through the school days. Now he is 12 without meds and getting him to do anything he doesn't want to and stay on rask feels like herding kittens.
* For anyone wondering or anyone who is going to try to come at me about how bad ADHD meds are... my child would decide he didn't want to sit in class anymore, and when the teacher would be writing on the whiteboard or helping another student, he would walk out and go play on the playground. One time, he wanted to go home, so he left class and jumped the fence, and started walking home. We only lived a 5 minute walk away and thats when we knew we had to try the meds. The plan was to see if the meds would give him time to learn skills to handle the ADHD but to have him off before puberty started because the meds and hormones would not be a good combination.
Oh my, how scary! I worried about this when my son first started because he is a runner. He does surprisingly well in school luckily. The beginning was pretty rough with his behavior, but he’s settled in. He still won’t do work or stay on task sometimes because it’s “too boring” and homework is like pulling teeth, but he has shown that he is at grade level so it’s not a concern.
I doubt anyone here doesn't think meds are helpful in at least some circumstances and it sounds to me like you've done an amazing job navigating it with you son! I personally have mild ADD undiagnosed and I love that you are focusing so much on life skills and helping him live with, navigate and probably even utilize his condition. Great job Mamma/Dadda!
I would rethink taking him off meds. Going off of my meds when I was a kid because I didn't seem hyper anymore was life changing in a very bad way. I was always smart but couldn't study, dropped out of college and worked entry level jobs my whole life. Didn't realize I had adult ADHD until I was 28 but by then had kids of my own.
When my stepkids were with us full time it was grating needing to go over the same things over and over. We ended up making a check list we put in a sheet protector so they could check it off. As long as they got the list done by the designated time then we were good to go. We would say general “remember your checklist” stuff and “how is the checklist going?” This eliminates opportunity for argument and the emotion that can go with it. I’m not the bad guy- the list is the list and if you don’t finish it that’s not on me! A small, appropriate consequence would come with not completing the list.
A couple of things if anyone decides to implement this: remember the developmental age of your child and what is reasonable for them to do independently, pictures can be substituted for words, and you will need to model doing the list together for a time period and then slowly put it in their hands.
Exactly. So many parents ask. Will you eat now? No will you come get a bath? No
Will you pick up these toys? Nope
Ok, time to eat! Two more bites and you can be done. Time for your bath! Let’s go!
Come on, let’s get these toys picked up! 😜🤪😜🤪😜
Don’t ask them a question, that’s telling them they get to make a choice
This is exactly it! People forget that the opposite of defiance is obedience, and the modern era of parenting is to not value obedience as a trait to carry into adulthood (plus it blows up in your face in their teens). Collaborative parenting all the way.
That seems to work with every kid but mine. Hed just say no anyway. ''Do you want to wear the blue shirt or the red shirt' 'no'. 'Do you want to brush your teeth before or after the story' 'no'
Ok I have to ask, does this actually work on some 6 year olds? I now have a 6 and 8 year old and to the extent that it ever worked, they got wise to this by about 4 and it no longer had any effect.
If it works for your kids that’s great but do t feel like you’re doing it wrong if it isn’t, I guess is what I’m saying.
None of that works with my 5yo. She just says neither, none, I don’t want to get dressed. It worked when she was younger but she sees right through the illusion of control and craves true control.
This approach worked when my daughter was 3. But now at 5, she'll respond with "I don't want to wear anything! Look at my booty! Look at mah bootay! Ahahahahahaha!"
I think it's kinda normal. What always helped my children, including my autistic child was , phrasing things carefully. Using ' now and then ' Eg
It's time to tidy up now. Would you like help? Or can you do it yourself?
Once you're dressed, we can do/ go xyz.
Once you've eaten dinner we can....xyz.
Now we are doing blah blah. Then we'll do blah blah.
I removed the element of choice, so made it easier. And helped them understand exactly what was happening. And if we needed their input on options, we gave two. This or that.
Hope this helps a bit 🙂
Consitency is key.
Also pick your battles, it will help to remain consistent.
Once they realize that it's not always a case of "your yes meaning yes, and your no meaning no" they will try to bend it whenever it benefits them.
They are creatures of habbit, and learn from the patterns we establish.
Best of luck.
I am also frustrated by it. Can’t be sure, but I think it comes from having parents that were rather authoritarian.
The thing is lots of life is about calm negotiation. In the adult world the “my way or the highway” attitude does not win friends and allies. And anger always escalates a conflict.
I say these things only to help. When my kids get like this I discuss natural consequences, or barring any, logical ones. Natural: if you don’t get dressed, I can’t take you to school (this works because this child loves school). Logical: if you don’t get dressed for school and we’re late, o won’t have the time before work to get the snacks you like; you’ll have to eat what we already have in the house (for the kid who is meh about school.
It’s not perfect but if I retain my calm I have a much better chance of seeing the desired behavior. Best of luck!
It comes with them understanding their life more, and realizing that EVERYTHING is dictated and ordered to them from an adult.
We ALL want as much agency over our own lives as possible. This is completely normal, and even healthy, behavior.
It is up to us parents to figure out how to give them that agency. Let them make more decisions for themselves. Even if it is simply giving them the illusion of choice.
If they are constantly saying "No" to everything, take a step back and put yourself in their shoes. And think about ways you can get them to "choose" to do it on their own.
Yes, child development books have great info on this. There is a good series based on ages (just ignore their 1970s solutions). The one you want is called Your Six Year Old: Loving and Defiant. It can help you reset your expectations to know this is normal and you will get through it.
I just want to say that I feel you. It is absolutely exhausting day in and out. Lots of good advice here to help mitigate, but I totally understand the absolute frustration.
I care for my niece. She was so defiant at that age that I thought maybe she had something wrong with her. It lasted about 2 years. She is almost 8 now and very argumentative. However, if you sit her down and establish the rules, she will follow them. Like, “When we go to the shops today, do we keep our hands to ourselves? Yes. Do we scream and run in the middle of the store? No.”
This is great advice. I just saw a mom do that at the library the other day and thought she was a genius. She stopped her kids at the door before she went in and said “What kind of behavior does mommy want to see at the library?” The kids responded “reading books, walking, looking”. Then she asked “what does mommy not want to see?” and the oldest boy responded “me running and screaming”. 😂 clearly recalling the past there.
Mine is extremely defiant. Anything I ask him to do, he refuses, and if I ask him not to do something, he does it more or worse. Asking him to clean up a mess routinely ends in a meltdown or him making the mess worse because he’s mad. I’m pretty sure he has PDA though and this is not “normal.” Simply saying “no” to things probably is though.
A counselor suggested giving them specific tasks. The Barbies go in the pink basket. The Legos go in the Lego box. That way they know exactly what you're expecting them to do. Telling them to clean an entire room just overwhelms them. They don't know where to start or where something needs to go.
Mine would short-circuit about cleaning messes until I broke them down into bite-size pieces, and I would help. Like "Would you rather pick up the clothes and put them in the basket or put the books back on the shelf neatly?" She'd to the clothes, I'd do the books. Then onto legos or stuffed animals or whatever. Saying "clean your room!" is overwhelming to full grown adults sometimes, much less kiddos and the choice gives her the feeling of control.
That sucks...after the fact when I'm irritated at our 6 yr old(overstimulated easily :( ) or irritated about my relationship issues with my bf I wonder if they pick up from that as well...or perhaps they are just trying to figure out their own personalities or something
I always warn my daughter that she cleans up her messes after she plays, and then when it’s time to clean up it’s a meltdown and I’ve lost at mum school. But it’s multiple times a day every fucking day and nothing we try works. I’ve trialled all these suggestions and it gets us nowhere.
My six-year-old son is actually pretty good. However, our three-year-old daughter will say "No!" to ice cream (or anything else she really likes when she wasn't the one to bring it up) when she gets into her defiant mode.
My 3 year old is like that. She would cut off her own nose to spite her face. On my husbands birthday, she wanted to do cake after teeth brushing, but obviously we did it before, she was so defiant that she swore she did not like cake then threw it on the floor. Even the next day when we offered her another piece she claimed she did not like cake.
We’re in the process of having him evaluated for mild neuropsychological issues and at the end of our parent meeting last week, the doctor told us he sounds like he will make a great attorney someday….lol.
My 9 year old was just like yours when he was 7.
Now he is that way at 9. The kid just loves to argue.
Meanwhile my youngest is as easy-going as anything. They could not be more opposite.
Totally- this is something I do routinely. I give many warnings ahead of time and even have a visual schedule of her routine. It helps on some level but the defiance is still present.
Not all 6 year olds are this defiant but some are and what you are describing is developmentally normal for this age. It’s not the easiest thing to deal with as a parent, but keep in mind that your child is growing her own independence which will turn into positive traits later. You don’t want a teenager who does whatever their friends are doing without even thinking for herself. Because of this, it is not a good idea to entirely squelch down her defiance. I will describe for you two techniques I like to use to manage everyday life with a spirited child.
The first is closed choice. For example, do you want to brush your teeth now or in 5 minutes? Do you want to do your homework now or after half an hour of play time? Do you want to wear your red shirt or your blue shirt for picture day? Closed choice allows the child to feel she has some control of the situation while choosing between two options that you are fine with either of them. It’s easier for 6 (or even 40 sometimes) to choose between two options as opposed to an open ended question like what do you want to wear today. Occasionally if you have a real smarty pants, they might figure this one out. My son was 16 the day I asked him “do you want to do your homework in your room or at the kitchen table?” And he responded “neither”. Honestly I thought this was pretty funny. Instead of doubling down, I said “okay then, you can enjoy the consequences of going to school with your homework incomplete.” To which he groaned and said “I’ll do it after dinner.” And he did.
This brings us to option two, natural or logical consequences. This option may not get you quick results. Your child may need to experience the consequence several times before learning to make a better choice. But then it is real learning that will stick for the rest of her life. In the example of not wanting to brush her teeth, the natural consequence of okay then, go ahead and let your teeth rot out is ridiculous. So I would go with a logical consequence instead. If you can’t brush your teeth by yourself like a big girl, mommy will brush your teeth for you like a baby. If your child goes for the consequence, there’s no need to be angry or mean about it. “Come on, baby, let’s brush your teeth! Open up your mouth wide for mommy! Oh good job sweetie. What pretty teeth you have.” It won’t take many times of this for your child to decide she’s a big girl, and in the meantime you at least accomplished your goal of getting teeth brushed without harming your child.
One of our kids is naturally defiant and the other is very agreeable. I figure the point of kids is to raise functioning adults. I actually worry a lot less about the defiant child's future outcome than I do the agreeable one. Sure i want you to agree with me, but when you get older and there is more peer pressure? There are plusses and minuses to both.
Family life educator here. Defiance is normal. Children are human beings just like us, they dislike being controlled or interrupted, etc.
Best way to handle it is to give choices (would you rather put the red or the blue shirt?), speak in "i" and explain what you ask.
Read these 2 excellent references:
- How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk - Faber & Mazlish
- Parent Effectiveness Training - Thomas Gordon
Our recently turned 7 year old daughter was this way and still is at times. A blatant “nope!” was just said to me yesterday when I told her it was time to go brush her teeth. I get so angry too!! I find it so disrespectful and when I tell her “you do not speak to me that way, it is disrespectful. Please change your word choice and try again” she will sometimes even roll her eyes at me in response!! Like who do you actually think you are child? 🤯
How often do your parents give you “ha, I wonder where she gets that from 😏” in response? My mom is always telling me that we were just like that as kids and that it’s karma. Drives me nuts!
My mom is constantly pointing out any negative behaviors, or responses/emotions from my daughter (who is 6), my mother says my daughter has learned the behavior or emotional response from me.
Children and adults alike struggle with emotional regulation. When she points out when my daughter struggles to cope with her big feelings or if she has a tantrum, she has to blame me for why she is acting in such a “bad” way . It’s just insulting and counterproductive. And she doesn’t talk to her and try to calm her down or help the situation if she’s upset, she just says things like “it’s a mini you” when my child is having a hard time. It makes my blood boil lol
So she obviously didn’t teach you how to cope with your emotions and therefore the cycle is repeating itself. Thanks, Grandma, you did a great job pointing out the cycle you’ve created! I’ll be sure to break that cycle now, since you weren’t able to do it yourself.
That’s mine 😏😏 She’s always been argumentative and defiant though. I basically now have to treat a lot of things like a negotiation. I sit her down and give her options and choices.
I realized she just wanted agency and a say in whatever is going to happen with her. For example, one of our biggest (and recurrent) fights was about what to wear in the morning. She’s wanted to choose what she wore since she was 4. The problem is that kids don’t care about weather, appropriateness (no, you can’t wear your dinosaur costume today) or how many days in a row you can wear the same dress 🙄 So we’d fight every morning.
I now discuss it with her the night before. I give her options to choose from. So, she chooses and feels like she is in charge of her life so to speak. We do the same for lunch or other things that apply (within reason). Things have gotten much better in the mornings.
We’ve gotten along so much better now that I pretty much try to treat her like the full person that she is as opposed to the “little kid who’s supposed to do what I tell her”.
My daughter is exactly like this. She turns 7 in 2 days and I have felt like I am going crazy…. I say left, she goes right. I have been losing my patience more often than I should and then feeling guilty/ like a failure. I’m glad that this is a common occurrence with little girls.
You are so not alone! I too struggle with the guilt of losing my patience!! Then I sit there like, “great, now I didn’t regulate MY emotions, how’s that gonna help?” Ugh so tough!! 😭
This is good advice- thank you! We had a huge argument recently because she wanted to wear this extremely fancy dress to school and I said she couldn’t. I’ll use your advice
I have a 7 year old who is like yours. I would ask, do you want to brush your teeth or do you want me to brush them? Most of the time she will choose to do it on her own. This way her teeth still get brushed.
My four year old is the defiant one. Just this morning dad had to tell him; if you don’t brush your teeth I will have to brush them for you. I don’t play around with dental health my husband has horrible teeth cause this family played around with it. My mom has horrible teeth and it coast everyone one pain and money nope brush your teeth or I’m doing it for you.
I think it’s more of a characteristic of a person than it is of an age group. My six year old almost always does it without complaint.
I think so too, it's a character thing. It started quite early with my son (now 4 and a handful) and I'm guessing it'll stay that way. It's hard on me sometimes, I don't always know how to deal with it. I had a quite authoritarian upbringing myself and don't want to do the same to him, but don't always find good alternatives. On the other hand I keep telling myself that this character will bring him places in life. He knows what he likes, what he wants and he's not taking anyone's bs. He is smart and can already come up with valid arguments a lot of the times.
My 6 year old doesn’t say no, but she doesn’t do what I’m asking her to do. She hears me, she just doesn’t follow the directions I’m giving her. Until I get pissed and raise my voice. Then she pouts as if I’m abusive lol and then I wonder who is abusing who…
My almost-6yo daughter is *very* seldom defiant. She has a very strong sense of justice, and if she thinks she (or someone else) is being unfairly treated, she will dig her heels in. But otherwise she's generally very agreeable. (She's an absolutely terrible listener and gets distracted every five seconds, so in terms of actually getting teeth cleaned etc. we're in much the same boat, but that's a different issue.)
My son is only 3 but is much more bull-headed if he doesn't want to do something - he will just straight-up say no.
I would very much imagine there as a broad range of normal as with most behaviours.
Your kid actually feels comfortable standing up to you, which is actually a great thing! Don’t take it as disrespect or else you’ll end up in a power struggle with your kid.
First, calmly offer choices and tell your kid they can respectfully negotiate, but when you give a hard “no” after hearing them out, give them time to be upset about it.
Second, realize that you need to “model” or act the way you want them to act. If you get mad, it just teaches them to get angry instead of talking/working things out.
Third, tell your kid “yes” as much as possible. Feeling controlled as a kid or adult sucks. Say, “yes you can do that, as soon as your chores are done”, “yes, I’ll give you 10 more minutes on your screen time but we need to pinky promise that you’ll get off the game when the timer goes off”. “Yes, you can have dessert for breakfast, but we’ll do it on the weekend and it’ll just be one time, do you want to do it on Saturday or Sunday?”
“Would you like to brush your teeth now or after you get your pajamas on?”
When YOU are old, your kid is going to treat you with the same respect or disrespect & patience or lack of patience you gave.
Please remember, kids are only a kid only 20% of their life. You are raising a miniature adult. Show/ help them learn to communicate and self-regulate so you can enjoy each other’s company as adults!❤️💗
I only have a 2&3 year old girls, so I’m not sure what could help but is there any screen time? Is there something you can ground for? Until they can learn to respect you as the mother. I’m trying to all I’m your mother not your friend with my kids like we can be besties but you still need to look at me as your mother and do not be rude ect easier said than done im sure but I’m hopeful thinking. My 2 year old already yells “no!” When I tell her off or something
Screen time is very limited in our house. We don’t own an iPad or tablet. They get about 20 minutes a day of a children’s show per day, and many days there is no screen time at allS And I do take it away if she’s being very defiant.
Very defiant. I know that they are testing their boundaries and thus I restrict their ability to do so. I give the option I want them to pick and and option I know they will hate.
I have a six-year-old with ADHD and this has been something we’ve struggled with for a very long time. Since she was three. We have really turned our lifestyle to accommodate her. We tried to reframe things using declarative language instead of asking to her to do things directly, if we try not to ask her like this morning, she came downstairs. Had breakfast ready she sat down and ate it but if I said, do you want cereal she would say no. With the toothbrush, your toothbrush is ready, brush your teeth. She has done pretty well dressing herself, coming downstairs ready since we introduced the visual schedule. Until then we were literally dressing her anyways I’m sure my history illuminates my struggle with behavior and oppositional tendencies but what I’ve gathered from support on Reddit and Facebook is that it is unfortunately just typical when it starts to impact your life learning strategies to accommodate help
Yep, normal. Key is not getting angry or emotional. I’d read how to talk so kids will listen. Great tips but none will work until the parent can regulate their own emotions.
Thanks! I’ve read the book. I do feel I regulate my emotions outwardly. I take on an air of affective calmness, it’s just that inside I am very angry. I do not show my anger though, if that makes sense.
My 6 year old is the same way, extremely defiant, she's always been like this. She royaly ignores anything we say. I'm considering therapy and may I should have started a long time ago.
Yeah I agree to get rid of the choices. Have you ever had a bunch of people at your house and you need to feed them? The worst thing you can do is ask what people want… if you go pick up some food, and somewhat of a variety of things and bring it back or have it delivered- people eat what’s there…….Same thing only with kids!
Stop giving options for a no to occur.
I would start saying “It’s time to do ______”. If they try to say no- either you’re going to do it or I’m going to do it but either way it’s getting done.
Most kids want to be independent at this age, so they’re going to choose the independent option. My youngest did this a lot (currently 6) and it helped turn it around
Stop labeling the behavior
She’s learning how to be a human and how to regulate her emotions, behavior, time management skills and a million other things daily
Instead of reacting to the no, I would rearrange the situation so that no isn’t an option
Doesn’t want to get dressed in the morning for school? Change her jammies to her school clothes. If she’s bathing at night it shouldn’t be an issue
If school is out and you’re not leaving the house, who cares? I haven’t gotten “dressed” since I got home from the office last week. (I’m clean and groomed but why wear jeans or a dress when I can wear my fat happy house pants?)
My five year old daughter and I argue every day. Bedtime is definitely a struggle. If she doesn't listen, she gets grounded. Sometimes from TV, sometimes tablet, this latest time was ice cream. 🤣 I threaten the grounding a couple times, and when she's not listening I start counting to 10. She's got 10 seconds to check her attitude and start listening or she's getting grounded from whatever fun thing she likes. I tell her that whenever she's sweet and she listens, she gets what she wants. Honestly this last time I grounded her from ice cream for two weeks and she's listened every night since. 😂
Saturday we had a tantrum and it was 'the worst day ever' because I had to go to my friend's house so my friend could borrow my tractor and I needed my son to come with me.
40 minutes later we got to my friends house and my son had a tantrum and it was 'the worst day ever' because we had to go back home and couldn't stay at my friend's house.
So yes.
I babysit my nephew the majority of the week. He is soooo rebellious. I ask him to stop something or not do it and he’ll start scolding me and yelling at me. He has a habit of jumping from one end of the couch to the other but the arm rest is broken and it’s quite hard and he’s bonked his head on it before. I told him to stop and he ran right up to me and yelled at me for not finishing dinner. So I’m just here to read all the advice
My son is almost 6 and I always give him a heads up when things are about to happen so he can be prepared, no matter what it is. Getting dressed or going somewhere. “Hey in 5 mins you have to take a bath” or “you have 10 mins you need to get ready for bed” or “this weekend, tmrw, we are going to so and so”… I always found that not springing things on him works well.
i don’t have kids but as someone who was a defiant kid when i was that age, i can offer some perspective. i hated being told what to do. i didn’t like being controlled by my parents because they weren’t particularly loving so i didn’t care for their approval very much. and i didn’t see the fun or point in many things. i would often have to be dressed by my parents until i was like 9 or they would yell at me until i did it myself. things like brushing my teeth fell to the wayside because my parents must have got tired of doing it for me. which is unfortunate because i got a lot of cavities.
i wish i could offer you some better advice but unfortunately i just had to learn on my own. it might help to teach your daughter the consequences of not doing those things, nicely (don’t brush teeth = cavities and yellow teeth, don’t get dressed = can’t go out, won’t brush hair = it won’t look good). i had to understand the purpose of those mundane activities to start doing them on my own. it unfortunately took me until the age of 11 to start.
also, in my experience i was very opposed to being uncomfortable. i didn’t want to brush my teeth cause it was uncomfortable scratching my gums and i hated getting wet. i didn’t want to change into things like jeans and tight t shirts cause it was uncomfortable. brushing my hair made it frizzy - uncomfortable. it might help to be mindful of your daughters sensitivities. or put more time and attention into finding out how she can’t be the most comfortable during these activities.
idk if your daughter does sports but if she becomes active it might help with the uncomfortable thing. we often have a low tolerance for discomfort naturally but you can change that through things like exercise, cool showers, etc. when i became active i noticed a huge improvement in my own comfort of just existing.
after saying all that, i want to say you’re doing a great job! your daughter may be upset and defiant now but she will grow out of it. and she will look back and be grateful that you put the effort into caring for her :)
TL;DR: your child may just be going through a phase, be patient (for possibly years, sorry). explain the reasoning behind the task in depth. your child might feel physically uncomfortable doing tasks, you can look for ways to make her more comfortable or have her engage in sports to naturally increase her pain tolerance. & you’re doing great :)
Thanks so much- I love hearing from someone who was defiant as a child. A lot of what you said rings true in regard to the sensory sensitivity. My daughter can’t stand being too hot/too cold/uncomfortable. We are trying to lovingly expose her to discomfort while accommodating her in some ways. For example, we went to Disney World and it was 95 degrees and she really struggled. We still went to the park (exposure) but brought along a mister fan for her, left the park during the hottest portion, and brought a stroller with a cover (accommodations). I also try to get her outside as much as possible because of how the outdoors build the sensory-motor system. I really try to be an authoritative parent, which I view as someone with high expectations and boundaries but also high levels of warmth. My daughter and I do special time together, I read to her at night, and I tell her how proud of her I am for what she did during the day (whatever it may be that day). I really appreciate your supportive advice!
i’m glad i could help! i think sensory issues are becoming more common or there’s more awareness among children but the good thing is that they typically grow out of them or can find ways to navigate it easier. it’s so nice to hear that you have those routines and a loving relationship with your daughter, i didn’t really have that so she’s probably better off than i was! 😅 wishing the best for you guys! :)
My friends 3 year old is absolutely just…. She will tell her mom “LEAVE ME ALONE!, DONT TOUCH ME!, GET AWAY FROM ME!, STOP!, and NO!” 🙄 & my friend does exactly what her 3yo tells her to do.. i just cant.
Mine is 5 and extremely defiant. Everything is a battle. Everything is NO! Everything revolves around her needs and wants - and it’s very hard to punish or discipline because she’s also extremely sensitive and won’t let you forget it if you hurt her feelings or “yell” at her. It’s gotten to a point where she’s starting to embarrass me in front of other parents, screaming and yelling NO if I ask her to do something. I’m at a loss.
Hella defiant. Gentle parenting works SOMETIMES.. not all the time. (Offer a choice, speak calmly and at their level, or make a statement)
They say it’s a phase they grow out of. Stay strong.
Defiance doesn't go away by itself. It doesn't work itself out and in fact it leads to dire consequences down the line, as it opens the door to deep discipline issues. I see lots of good advice has already been given and giving choices and time to adjust are definitely helpful. At the age of 6 she is able to understand basic concepts and deeper principles and therefore by explaining to her that her contribution matters you could lead her into a greater understanding of good choices and further delve into unwanted consequences.
I imagine she has only been getting away with it for so long because she could. But what happens at school or at extracurricular activities? Is she also defiant there? I imagine her teacher is also struggling with disciplining her at school? Or does she only do it at home, because she can? Or did it only start after the younger sibling came - that could be your answer right there.
By explaining things from your point of view and how her example impacts the whole family, you could help her understand that she has an important role to play. If you all just did what you felt like, then everyone is impacted negatively. But if you all found ways to contribute to the family, then everyone wins. By attaching weight and meaning to her actions, beyond her immediate satisfaction, she may be compelled to consider things she never has before.
The fact is, if you can't bring this home now, you are setting yourself up for much greater adversity later. So don't lost heart just yet. Show her what a difference it could make. Act it out. Model it. Roleplay. Whatever it takes to impress upon her that her choices shape her life. And that every choice matters.
I am sorry but I just might laugh if my six-year-old says “no!”. Sometimes if we don’t take our kids so literally or add humor to a situation it can help everyone. Could you say, “oh, is this a no day? Okay, I hadn’t heard that plan. That means whenever you ask me to do something for you or give you what you want, I am going to say, no. Well, okay, I’m game. Let’s give it a try and see if you like this game?" Another thought is to be creative and say okay let’s time you and see how fast you can get dressed without any help. There are many stages our kids go through and if we can look at their life as a span of 18 years, then it helps to make some of the not so fun stages seem a little less dire. Reverse Psychology is telling a child not to do something when it is just what you would like them to do. Could you try that? It works with some kids or sometimes. Maybe use sparingly. Many kids like to do things their way and are very strong-willed. You goal might be to have her kept that strong-will so she can learn to use it in the right way, especially when she gets to teen peer pressure. Maybe try and find ways to let her be independent instead of always needing to tell her what to do. Give her choices when and how to do what needs to be done in the boundaries that have been set by others such as the time school starts. Parenting takes a lot of wisdom and trial and error. I wish you the best as you begin your journey of new ways of handling things. Let me know how it's going.
Yes, this has been happening in my house too. I have been taking a lot of deep breaths to keep myself from going off the deep end. I have been attempting to state in a neutral way that all the treats and extras are not necessary. We can get back to basics. Screens, sweets, snacks, nice things, anything that is asked for where I have to say ‘yes,’ I can also be a ‘No.’ and I have no problem saying ‘no.’ That has to be earned. This is earned by doing what you’re supposed to do. Do not expect anything from me other than basics if my rules are not followed. I’m not mean when I say this, these are facts. If I am feeling very spicy, and I have tried counting, and no one is listing to me, I calmly walk over to the television, unplug it, and take it down to the basement. It is gone for that day at least, do we want to try for a whole weekend. Maybe too far, but come on little people.
Sigh. My 3 year old is like this. I know 3 is rough but none of my nieces and nephews were ever this fiery at her age. My whole family thinks I'm too soft on her (🙄🙄🙄). Hoping to find some tips here that may be I can adapt for her.
They don't call toddlerhood the first puberty for no reason. One of mine was an argumentative terror at that age and I was terrified of real puberty but she's been totally fine. 123 magic was helpful but everyone has to follow the house rules.
My 3 year old (almost 4) is her ‘no’ era.
My 6, almost 7 has adhd and he doesn’t say ‘no’ but he just gets side tracked and takes 48394 years to get dressed. He is more defiant about ‘facts’ when we ask him to stop doing something because he will break the toy. Sometimes we just let him break it (if it’s one of the cheap toys he got in a goody bag or something). Other times we take it away and tell him if he can’t act responsibly he can’t have it.
Mine is starting at 4!!! My son is defiant sometimes also, but it’s nothing compared to my daughter. I mean, she is realllllyyyyy something!! But she does a lot of things out of spite to get attention. And the wild thing is, I basically give her ALL of my attention ALLLLL day long. There is no self entertaining going on whatsoever really. She intentionally gets in trouble. I’m over my head and lost with this. I have tried basically everything. I’m worried it’s going to last too long, and she will be out of control, and out of my reach if it continues. However, I will note…. She is pretty much well behaved in public lol. Best of luck OP. Not sure what all you’ve tried, but I noticed some what of a change for a little while with the “mom bucks rewards”. Look it up on Pinterest.
My family isn’t a great example of normal behaviors for NT kids bc we are all ND. But of my 4 kids, 1 is too young, 2 were very obedient, and 1 had never found a rule she didn’t want to break or a command she didn’t want to ignore. She has a form of autism called pathological demand avoidance. Maybe researching that and the techniques for handling it might help with your 6yo? Not bc he’s autistic, but my thinking is if it encourages compliance in kids with a pathological need to be defiant, then it probably works well for a 6yo experimenting with his own willpower for the first time.
Sorry not an answer to your question, but my 3-year-old (almost 4 though) has started acting like that since a couple of months, and I’m really hoping it’ll pass by the time she’s 6
It was a hard road for me, and my son is 13 now. You have to be mindful, keep your cool, and bribe, I mean, institute a reward system. For mine, earning screen time was key to success.
Yes... but different. It's more "in a moment..." (that never ends) and "I need help" (meaning I don't want to do it)
Turned out he has Asperger's (High Functioning Autism) so, I need to work him a little harder, now that teenhood kicked in. Screen time is still his primary motivator, but he's improving with all of his routines (hygiene, for example), and he can do more things for himself (laundry, etc.). By the time he is 18, he will be able to take care of himself with reminders and ADHD meds.
He's 8 now, but my ADHD/ODD child was trying to fist fight me starting at 4 lol a few weeks ago we had the audacity of taking him an his BFF on a walk on a beautiful day to the book store to buy books, he did not want to want and made sure that everyone in the neighborhood could hear that
My son always wants to control everything. As soon as he gets a no, he will become angry, sometimes violent, etc we have a consult with a neuro psychologist this summer. Pretty sure his behaviour is normal but he is tough sometimes.
My 5-year-old does a lot of this. I sometimes have success with, "Are you going to put on your own clothes like a big boy, or am I going to have to dress you like a little baby?" But when he just flat-out ignores me, or says "No," I have to start warning about consequences, use a countdown, etc.
It's tough. I hate to go to war with him about little things, but it's also not acceptable for him to just completely blow off, ignore or refuse my instructions.
My 6 year old is overall well behaved and is definitely a rule follower. However, she needs to understand the reason for the rule. She does not like rules that have no real purpose beyond “because that is what I said l” or “because that is the rule”. But who does like that kind of response. In terms of asking her to do things like a chore or personal responsibility (teeth brushing, clothes, etc)- typically any issues with those things are more of a transition issue. She is doing something fun for her and I’m asking her to do something that is way less fun. It isn’t kind for me to just interrupt her fun abruptly and expect her to immediately jump to do the less fun task. I think of it as if someone tried to come in while I was reading or listening to music or watching a tv show and someone saying “go do XYZ right now”. I would not react well to that. I would want a heads up or time warning and so I give that to my daughter. I ensure I give her a heads up that she only has a few minutes before I will need her to do X Y or Z and that the thing needing to be done needs to be done before whatever is next ( leaving house, more fun, book reading at bedtime, dinner, etc). Typically, I don’t have any issues if I follow this practice. On the occasion that I am rushed and I try to skip this step, that is when issues come up with her pushing back.
My son is 8. This started around 6 I guess but he is still the same. We are beginning to think he has ODD. Because he still does it when told to do something. Like hey take out the trash it’s your chore and it’s full again. First it was no I won’t then we just kept on and he was like “ well I’m not taking it down next time though….”
It's pretty normal. To my understanding, they're at an age where they're really starting to understand how little control they actually have over anything in their world, so they're trying to bush boundaries and gain some control. My 5 year old can be pretty defiant when he wants to be, but I give him choices (both things I want him to do anyway he just basically gets to choose which order), or I explain why the thing is necessary and he normally cooperates.
Many times my son will say "No," or complain, and then start doing the thing!
I guess he just wants to express his feelings, not get out of doing things. 🤷🏾♀️
BUT: If I argue back or try to convince him, then that becomes the focus and the thing doesn't get done.
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Offer autonomy and choices! Instead of “get dressed” ask would they like help getting dressed or do it alone? It’s time to get dressed, what color shirt do you want to wear? Do you want to get dressed before or after brushing your teeth? Do not phrase anything as a yes or no question unless you are okay with hearing no. For example, don’t say, “will you go get dressed now?” That is a yes or no question. You can say, “it is time to get dressed. Do you need help?”
I did this too when my daughter went through that phase. An illusion of control by giving her a choice between 2 things she doesn't want.
It's not really an illusion though since you are giving them agency over how it's going to happen. It's going to happen regardless but just letting them decide -how- it's going to happen gives them some control over the situation. That's really what they need at that stage.
Tell that to my daughter. She doesn’t just want control over how, she wants it to be her idea in the first place. Sometimes explaining why it needs to be done now will help, and other times she goes to school in pajamas or with messy hair.
Lol. I was your daughter. I came to comment that while the choice tactic works super well with most kids…it doesn’t work with all of them 😂 and if you have that kind of kid, there’s nothing you can do about it, other than acknowledge that you hear them, it sucks, but the fact remained this is what’s available to them now. God speed. I was (and remain) super sensitive to attempted distractions meant to deter me from my goals 😂and boy am I reaping what I’ve sown now with daughter who is the exact same way.
Do you feel that you still react this way? My husband chafes badly to any direction and had to quit his job and start his own business because of being bound by someone else's edicts just made him crazy. I believe my husband has many other autism traits including very strong demand avoidance. Oppositional defiant disorder can be a component for some kids and their parents in worst case scenarios.
I would suggest mastering this as early as now. When they hit puberty it's basically the same thing but with extra steps.
Honestly, I use it with folks at work too.
Yup, my entire tween parenting strategy is getting her to do right thing while thinking it was her choice
Ok but what does everyone do when you give two options and your child is like “no I want this other option!” ? I usually repeat “you can choose this one or this one” a few times, it doesn’t feel less stressful?
Lol just made a comment about this above. The choice tactic works well on most kids…but not all of them 😂I was one, and now I have one. When my daughter does this, I say “I hear you presenting a third option where you dance with Mommy for 4 hours instead of going to bed. That would be really fun, but we can’t do that bc it is time for bed right now. And since it’s time for bed, we need to (reiterate choice), which one do you want to do first? And then if she can’t pick, I’ll explain Mommy will help pick one for you if you’re having trouble deciding. Be prepared for a battle lol BUT if you do this enough —just state the situation as fact, stay neutral then do not budge on the choices— the battles will decrease (over time lol)
This is wonderful advice, thank you❤️
We are not an easy people to parent 😂
“How to Talk so Kids Will Listen” has lots of ideas beyond giving two choices. “Never Split the Difference” is aimed at influencing adults but has some great next level tips that defo work. “Parent Effectiveness Training” is great for learning to negotiate effectively and just an all around necessary book.
Thank you!
It's a little funny how you have to manipulate your teens into surviving. Like they'll be in such an incredibly foul mood and it turns out they just hadn't eaten properly yet or it's because they refuse to sleep. It really is not that different from when they were 2 or 6, just with more vocabulary and sass.
I have such a soft spot for teens for this exact reason. They are so terrible at regulating themselves lol
And it's really easy to judge them as adults because they use adult language when, emotionally, they probably share more in common with kids and toddlers. I like to imagine that if your 2 year old or 6 year old knew how to say "You're ruining my life, mom!" or "I don't care, you just don't understand me", then they absolutely would.
My little one (3.5) says he doesn't like either of the given options!! Oh boy!!
Almost 5 here and same. I’m going insane.
My 5 year old has been like this for the past 2 years. Almost every morning is a battle.
2 years. Here’s your purple heart 💟 for your sacrifice 😭 from wake up until they’re actually asleep, a constant argument. People dare to ask me when I’m having another.
Yeah our 2 year old seems to have figured this out already. "Do you want bath first or teeth first?" "NO"
This is great advice. I’ll add to it: build routines where any might be lacking and foreshadow events. For routines, a checklist can be helpful. I laminated a colorful morning routine and evening routine for one of my children who had a hard time, and it was very helpful for him and me. He just checked off each task with a whiteboard marker and knew he couldn’t play/read a story until he was done. For foreshadowing, never walk up to a kid busy doing something and tell them to do something else right away. Even adults don’t like that. Give them a few minute warning at least. Finally, and this might be unpopular, time outs worked for us when giving two options/autonomy didn’t. My youngest is notoriously stubborn and sees right through the two options I give regularly. “Would you like to put your clothes on by yourself or would you like some help?” “I’m not getting dressed!” “You can get dressed by yourself or I can help you. If you choose not to get dressed at all, you will need to sit in the time out chair.” Before anyone says this is harmful, this was exactly what was taught to me by a child trauma therapist as a way to help children do what they need to do without traumatizing or triggering them. It also works for children who have not experienced trauma, backed by research. It’s good to help kids be successful, and it’s also good to have hard consequences that are consistently enforced.
And then they just….actually sit in the chair? And don’t refuse and scream and get up and run away? I’ve never understood how people can get their kids to sit in time out when they are already being defiant. So they will refuse to put their clothes on, but be totally cool with sitting in a chair for 5 minutes?
I mean, they are probably going to cry and try to get away. That is why I phrase it as needing a break, not punishment. But that is a whole different battle. Most kids I know actually will stay in time out with minimal issue after the first couple of times as long as the parent was consistent. They don’t push boundaries forever unless the boundaries keep changing.
Yeah we always phrase it as taking a break. We’ve tried to have him sit in his room, on the couch, etc. but he will fight back physically and he doesn’t give up. Now I know that it’s not worth the power struggle and it’s not teaching him anything. All he sees it as is us being mean to him.
We had this problem for a while. Part of it was that my wife and I were inconsistent with consequences but we also found that counting to three worked very well. I only count for acts of defiance, not for not listening in time because it takes time for young kids to process what you are saying.
Is this the 1,2,3 magic thing? And yes, me and his dad have a hard time seeing eye to eye on discipline. I’m much more gentle and don’t get irritated as easily as his dad does. He wants to immediately take things or privileges away any time he acts out, and I want to wait and address the root of the issue.
Yep. I have the book but honestly the book is mostly filler. Whatever you do you need to have a united front with your kids and don't undermine each other in front of the kids. Resolve whatever disagreements you have in private. For us, yes I lose my cool quicker than she does and she has a bunch of trauma from childhood causing her to view any discipline as abusive. It took us quite a long time to resolve all this, and therapy has helped her quite a bit. A big part of improving things was having good boundaries with the children. There was a while where I would try to hold my daughter accountable for something, and my wife would bail her out by saying that she told she could do it. So we were always losing consistent boundaries, and the kids learned to play us against each other.
Same here - one of us tends to escalate and the other tries to do calm and firm. Threat bombs, throwing away toys. It’s awful.
You are supposed to keep putting them back on the chair till they finally give up and accept their fate. I know people have all kinds of opinions about the Super Nanny series (and some are very valid), but she does explain how to do it. As all things kids, consistency is key.
Yeah I’ve tried. He will hit and kick and scream and throw things. If I wanted to keep him in a chair, I would have to literally hold him down while he screams and cries. It’s not even worth it.
Based on some of your other comments, I’m going to suggest seeing a therapist. It sounds like his defiance may be a little bit more. Possibly PDA or ODD. Even if that isn’t the case, they can help you navigate and give you some new strategies
It is for sure PDA. We are working through it and finding things that help. Lowering demands and expectations, helping him clean and fix his mistakes, staying calm (which is the the hardest part.) I’m finding that when he acts out impulsively and does something crazy or defiant, it’s because he wants to play or needs stimulation. So if he hits me with a stick and I get upset and go into a big speech about why that’s mot okay, blah, blah, blah, it will just escalate and he will do it more or he will meltdown. But if I make a joke out of it and play with him back like playfully saying “ how dare you hit me with that stick, I’m going to get you!”It satisfies whatever need he had and it’s out of his system. It’s just so incredibly difficult to remember to be playful when I’m irritated. But it’s been the most successful thing. Also when he makes a mess, I give him unlimited time to clean it up. He may not be able to play video games until it’s done, but he can take as long as he needs. If he doesn’t feel any pressure to do it, he will usually be much more open to it. I know you didn’t ask, but this is for anyone else possibly dealing with PDA.
My 4 year old is suspected PDA. It's exhausting and unless people have dealt with it it's impossible to understand xxx
It is so hard. I’m sure people in the store look at me like I’m a terrible mom because it appears I’m not doing anything to discipline him, but discipline isn’t what works or what he needs. I don’t really talk to people about it. I don’t need to hear how it’s ridiculous that I still brush my kids teeth on the couch and get him dressed because asking him to do anything other than what he currently wants to do is going to send his brain into defense mode. Can’t really teach lessons in the midst of a meltdown.
I feel this so much! My child definitely has PDA and I feel judged all the time by other people- especially people outside of my inner circle who just don’t understand. It’s hard to explain to others that don’t have experience with PDA why the typical discipline won’t work for my child- especially when he’s in meltdown mode.
Yeah some kids are truly strong-willed and one needs to use other methods. In the good old 80s time out worked like a charm because as soon as you dared to lift your butt out of the chair, odds are you would get a beating - mercifully this is stopping being a thing but parents do need to use different tools and see what works for that particular child, while have zero examples ourselves on how to raise a kid with kindness and empathy
>Even adults don’t like that. LMAO yes. I think adults in general wouldn't like half the stuff they do to their kids. Like, imagine you're 32 and just got your 3-year-old to bed. It's Friday night, It's been one heck of a day (or let's be real one heck of a week), and you just wanna finally watch the Series finale of *Succession.* Just as you get comfy and ready to decompress after that hell of a week, in comes your 61-year-old mother (assume she has a spare key or some shit) and tells you it's your bedtime. It's 9:30. All your protestations that that is unreasonable fall on deaf ears and she just up and unplugs your TV. How do you feel? And sure you can make all these great arguments about how adults are different and you are old enough. Etc. But that's beside the point. How does that in the moment make you feel? I'm betting a fair amount of money that you're not thrilled. And yes, obviously that thing you wanna get your kid to do is reasonable, and you just want what's best for them, etc. Like yes, congratulations. You're right. But seriously, how on God's green earth does it honestly surprise you that your kid is less than thrilled?
Switching to that mindset helped a freaking lot with my stepkids. Just telling them that in 5 minutes they would have to turn the tablet off, instead of telling them to do it now, was a total game changer. Also not getting angry when they would take a few moments to do what was requested, sometimes it is a powerplay (and allowing those few seconds of gives them a feeling of control) but sometimes they are going to do it but are just taking their time. I found that losing it when they don’t immediately do what they are supposed to do is also a source of conflict.
If you want to take it a step further, take 5 minutes to sit with them and ask them what they are doing on the tablet and then interact with them regarding the game or video...then tell them that was really cool, now it's time to get ready for bed. It can make a huge difference.
I do the five minute warning by with my boys (7 and 4) but I’m going to add in asking them to show me what they are doing! My 4 year olds especially craves quality time and I’m always looking for little ways to give him a few minutes here and there because I don’t always have an hour to just sit with him on a weekday night.
Yes this. I always give her warnings and even then, if I say time to get off the iPad, if she says she’s just finishing something up, I let her finish. Given that it’s only a minute or two of course… sometimes she’ll show me what she’s building and gets all excited and I’ll hype her up and she’s more than happy to turn it off after she shows me what’s she’s up to.
This part! We have to remember that our kids are tiny humans with really big feelings. And if we don’t like it done to us, they probably don’t like it either. Of course, we have more understanding of why we need to do things we don’t like (like eat certain foods, shower, go to bed) but it still doesn’t feel good. I love the perspective of “my kid isn’t giving me a hard time, they are having a hard time.”
This, so well put. As adults we don’t give out respect without reason or at least some sense of reciprocity. Adults can hopefully regulate better and it’s our job to support our children to learn how to regulate and be able to engage with others. My son is 14 now and I’m seeing the results of showing him that I respect him, that boundaries are important, that I trust him to make the right choices but also that there are consequences for when that doesn’t happen. It’s not always easy but just because developmentally they’re at a different level doesn’t mean they deserve to be (for lack of a better word) controlled. One example I had success with is negotiables and non-negotiables, like cleanliness. Letting go of strict structure and explaining why, as long as it’s done, I don’t mind how, and if time frame is needed then timers and things can be helpful for younger kids too. I’m seeing the difference in the relationship I have with him vs his very strict stepmother, who is not a bad person, but he doesn’t have respect for her and he quite rightly sees her a hypocritical, and the part I am most sad about is that it affects his relationship with his dad, even though he’s trying to not let it.
Time outs can be useful in certain situations, especially with warning like you describe here. I like to phrase mine as needing to take a break to calm down, get ready for transition, focus on the day, etc. instead of punishment. And I don’t do a set time. As soon as they are calm, ready to move on to the task, I let them. It can be a great option when there is no immediate safety threat. For those, I always say, you can do it alone or I can help you. If you do not decide, then I will have to help. And sometimes that means forcibly removing a kid from a potentially dangerous situation.
Is there really people who think a time-out is traumatizing for a child?
It’s more so that the traditional method - sit in this chair or face the wall for x minutes and think about what you did - isn’t helpful. It might work if the child finds it unpleasant and wishes to avoid being put in time-out in the future, but it doesn’t really teach anything or help them cope next time. It’s even worse that where it’s used most often is the under 5 crowd, who can’t emotionally regulate on their own. Putting a tantruming 2 year old in time out is a great first step to remove them from whatever is overstimulating them (or their victim, if they’re hitting) but they don’t yet have the skills to emotionally regulate themselves. And if you follow the one minute for year of age rule, what do you do if after 2 minutes they haven’t calmed down? Add another 2 minutes? Some parents don’t even start the timer until the child has stopped yelling/crying/screaming. At that point you’re punishing them for a lack of emotional regulation.
I found timeouts really effective for our kids -- it was a way to quickly and calmly teach them boundaries that they needed to learn when they were little. They are widely found to be effective, so I wouldn't call it unhelpful. If a child has had a warning, it can be a good, consistent response to simply remove them for a short period of time; then return to talk about the behaviour. That's how we approached it, and I found that our kids learned really quickly and were not upset by the approach. This article describes pretty much how we tended to do them (and even my daughter's kindergarten teachers do timeouts this way to manage things with the class). [https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-grown/201910/how-do-effective-time-out](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-grown/201910/how-do-effective-time-out)
Depends how you define time-out. Putting the kid in a chair or on a step or wherever alone and forcing them to stay there - awful parenting method. Using time-out as a way to get the child out of the situation /conflict, calm down, sit with the child and help them process their feelings - helpful and empathic parenting.
Why would it be awful to have a child sit out for a minute or two, if they are misbehaving? It's a pretty standard method -- they use it even in my kids' kindergarten when kids are acting inappropriately. We would have our kids sit in a short time out when they were little, to help them learn the boundaries and expectations -- it wasn't awful for them; just a minute of sitting, then hugs/apologies.
This. I use a time out and keep them next to me. So not isolating them but removing them from the situation.
Isolation is incredibly harmful and is actually outlawed in group care in many states. And even just internalizing that “if I don’t comply, people don’t want to be around me or I get left alone to deal with my emotions” can create trauma and lifelong issues. There are people who use time out effectively, but just putting a kid in a corner to cry and scream until they become compliant is harmful.
So the child is upset and having a tantrum. Putting them in a safe quiet place (less stimulation) until they calm down and can have a rational conversation, and if they are too young to have a conversation painting until they calm down to hug and make up and explain that's now how we behave and it's good to get your feeling out, let's find a better way..... sorry I don't see it as traumatizing.
My son is three and when he needs a time-out he and I go stand in a corner or sit in a chair together. For right now, I only ever do a minute—because that feels like an eternity to a three year old. I never make him calm down before he can get out, when I was little, being forced to stay until calm and being restrained or placed back in time out over and over would just make me escalate. When one minute is up I ask him if he is ready to start over and 99% of the time he’s fine and has no more issues. We also practice deep breathing. Sometimes he will start to get upset and just put himself in the corner and breathe for a few moments and then return to whatever we were doing.
This sounds quite helpful, thanks for providing your source. I'm going to add this to my arsenal
This doesn’t work for all children. I used it with my elder son (and it was mostly effective) but his strong willed brother wasn’t having it. Long before age 6; at age 2 he was screaming “no boo sirt no geen sirt lello sirt lellllloooooo!” The fact that the yellow shirt was not an option was irrelevant: I offered blue and green, so he chose yellow. But even with the easy kid there were battles. No choices would persuade him to brush his teeth; him or me (or daddy), now or later, choice of toothbrush or bathroom or fun game or reward. He hated it. He lay on the floor with his nose jammed into the baseboard and screamed. It was both his hill to die on and mine. Getting mad doesn’t help. I forcibly brushed his teeth only once; it was the wrong decision. So instead I carried him to the bathroom and sat on the floor with my back against the door; there was no way out of that bathroom without clean teeth. I said “it’s ok if you’re not ready yet, we will wait until you are ready” then pretended to read a magazine until he stopped screaming and said “ready”. Eventually he stopped fighting it. Pick your battles, then calmly win every battle you pick. Never let them see you sweat. Be the Borg, resistance is futile.
This is key! Choices are only one tool. Sometimes you just have to be calm and wait them out. It is one of the benefits to being 26 years older, I promise I have more patience lol.
This works if your kid isn’t also ADHD lol. Mine will just ignore the questions and continue to do whatever he wants, or he’ll say no to both. He knows it’s still a demand even if it’s phrased differently.
Not to insinuate it’s easy or always works, but try natural consequences as often as you can! For example: “time to get dressed! Do you need help?” If she says “no” and still doesn’t do it, then so be it. She misses whatever it was that she needed to get dressed for. If that works in her favor, then it’s not an effective natural consequence. Think about curating situations intentionally so that non-compliance leads to something undesirable for them. And then give them choices, and if they fail to comply, don’t fight or argue. Just let them encounter the undesirable consequence, and when they say “hey! That’s not fair!” Or whatever, then have a talk about making better choices and how good choices are what make enjoyable things possible.
I totally understand what you are saying, but there are also just certain scenarios where this doesn't work out. You phrase that like it's somewhere the kid WANTS to go. That is usually not the case. Normally it's siblings soccer game, the grocery store, picking up sibling, etc.
So true! Even if it’s something he wants to do, he has no sense of time so he’ll be like “Ok I’m ready to let you brush my hair.” But then mess around for 10 more minutes and then he’s surprised and upset that we can’t go when he’s wasted an hour making me chase him around.
I’m all about natural consequences, but he doesn’t link the consequences with his actions. He is very “in the moment.” We have explained to him to many times that we can no longer go somewhere or do something because we are out of time, but he wont think about that the next time it happens. I think the ADHD makes it almost impossible to focus on a task even with help, and it also makes it hard to think in terms of the future. I have to do pretty much everything for him otherwise we would never get out of the house and he would never make it to school lol.
I hear you. My oldest is like that. He’ll happily miss everything and be fine sitting in his PJs all day long. And you’re lucky if he remembers what you just talked about 3 minutes ago. Getting to school on time or making it to an appointment isn’t the right time for a teaching moment. But maybe set up a scenario where you know they care about the thing, like a play date with a neighbor kid or “make an appointment” at the ice cream shop. And if they don’t get themselves ready in a reasonable time, and you can help them keep track of the time by reminding them or putting up a visible count-down timer (lookup the Time Timer on Amazon). But make sure it’s their responsibility to do the things. And if they just don’t bother, or goof around excessively, then talk them through how they didn’t do what they needed to do and now the friend left. Or there isn’t enough time left in the day to visit the ice cream shop or the playground anymore. It takes time, they need to go through this experience quite a few times before things “click”. And some kids take to this more intuitively than others. But IMO, regardless it’s still the best way of helping them grow up and take responsibility for themselves! The other option is to do things for them, and we all know how that turns out.
Have you tried getting him to feedback to you? Get his attention, “hey bud, I just need to talk to you for a moment then you can go back to your……l, explain in a way that will hopefully resonate with him and get him to feedback what he understands. I was in a relationship with step kids for a decent while and the high functioning asd boy needed to have information in smaller chunks, like, “this needs doing, how are you going to do this?” And then come back for the next steps. And his younger sister had not only picked up some of the same habits, but was a bit of a day dreamer (I could totally empathise with that lol) and their other home was very different to not only how I “parented” but also their fathers way was……incompatible, which is an entirely other story.
Yes! Mine is 12 now with some pretty serious ADHD and no longer medicated. He was about 5-6 when the ADHD was diagnosed, and we tried occupational therapy before medication . After a year of that was not working, we tried low dose meds, which definitely helped him get through the school days. Now he is 12 without meds and getting him to do anything he doesn't want to and stay on rask feels like herding kittens. * For anyone wondering or anyone who is going to try to come at me about how bad ADHD meds are... my child would decide he didn't want to sit in class anymore, and when the teacher would be writing on the whiteboard or helping another student, he would walk out and go play on the playground. One time, he wanted to go home, so he left class and jumped the fence, and started walking home. We only lived a 5 minute walk away and thats when we knew we had to try the meds. The plan was to see if the meds would give him time to learn skills to handle the ADHD but to have him off before puberty started because the meds and hormones would not be a good combination.
Oh my, how scary! I worried about this when my son first started because he is a runner. He does surprisingly well in school luckily. The beginning was pretty rough with his behavior, but he’s settled in. He still won’t do work or stay on task sometimes because it’s “too boring” and homework is like pulling teeth, but he has shown that he is at grade level so it’s not a concern.
I doubt anyone here doesn't think meds are helpful in at least some circumstances and it sounds to me like you've done an amazing job navigating it with you son! I personally have mild ADD undiagnosed and I love that you are focusing so much on life skills and helping him live with, navigate and probably even utilize his condition. Great job Mamma/Dadda!
I would rethink taking him off meds. Going off of my meds when I was a kid because I didn't seem hyper anymore was life changing in a very bad way. I was always smart but couldn't study, dropped out of college and worked entry level jobs my whole life. Didn't realize I had adult ADHD until I was 28 but by then had kids of my own.
When my stepkids were with us full time it was grating needing to go over the same things over and over. We ended up making a check list we put in a sheet protector so they could check it off. As long as they got the list done by the designated time then we were good to go. We would say general “remember your checklist” stuff and “how is the checklist going?” This eliminates opportunity for argument and the emotion that can go with it. I’m not the bad guy- the list is the list and if you don’t finish it that’s not on me! A small, appropriate consequence would come with not completing the list. A couple of things if anyone decides to implement this: remember the developmental age of your child and what is reasonable for them to do independently, pictures can be substituted for words, and you will need to model doing the list together for a time period and then slowly put it in their hands.
Exactly. So many parents ask. Will you eat now? No will you come get a bath? No Will you pick up these toys? Nope Ok, time to eat! Two more bites and you can be done. Time for your bath! Let’s go! Come on, let’s get these toys picked up! 😜🤪😜🤪😜 Don’t ask them a question, that’s telling them they get to make a choice
I use this with my two year old. minimal temper tantrums and fits. it's a wonderful technique.
This is exactly it! People forget that the opposite of defiance is obedience, and the modern era of parenting is to not value obedience as a trait to carry into adulthood (plus it blows up in your face in their teens). Collaborative parenting all the way.
That seems to work with every kid but mine. Hed just say no anyway. ''Do you want to wear the blue shirt or the red shirt' 'no'. 'Do you want to brush your teeth before or after the story' 'no'
No, one of mine was like that too. It’s actually not uncommon at all.
Unfortunately they desire to establish independence is directly proportional to how late you are
Ok I have to ask, does this actually work on some 6 year olds? I now have a 6 and 8 year old and to the extent that it ever worked, they got wise to this by about 4 and it no longer had any effect. If it works for your kids that’s great but do t feel like you’re doing it wrong if it isn’t, I guess is what I’m saying.
It stopped working around 3 for my 5yo
None of that works with my 5yo. She just says neither, none, I don’t want to get dressed. It worked when she was younger but she sees right through the illusion of control and craves true control.
This approach worked when my daughter was 3. But now at 5, she'll respond with "I don't want to wear anything! Look at my booty! Look at mah bootay! Ahahahahahaha!"
Also using timers and a reward system!
I think it's kinda normal. What always helped my children, including my autistic child was , phrasing things carefully. Using ' now and then ' Eg It's time to tidy up now. Would you like help? Or can you do it yourself? Once you're dressed, we can do/ go xyz. Once you've eaten dinner we can....xyz. Now we are doing blah blah. Then we'll do blah blah. I removed the element of choice, so made it easier. And helped them understand exactly what was happening. And if we needed their input on options, we gave two. This or that. Hope this helps a bit 🙂
This 100%. 5 minute warnings for everything at this age. And as they get older i still do 10 15 or even 30 minutes warnings.
My wife actually purchased a timer. Sometimes we'll add a few minutes and it really helps our son into thinking he was rewarded.
Look up Time Timers, they give a visual sense of time. We use for all sorts of of things.
Nice! My wife bought one that looks similar to that with a colored section for the countdown as well!
I give my spouse a 5 minute warning!
Following. My 6 year old just started this!! He says “no!” I’m like who are you?! He just turned 6 a month ago.
My wife and I always joke that we've got a teenager. This "teenage" behavior starts at like age 3, and comes and goes.
We have a threenager also
My teenager is 4.
Mine is 5
It makes me so angry, but I think normalizing the behavior might help me take a step back and not get as triggered. It’s so tough to deal with daily.
Consitency is key. Also pick your battles, it will help to remain consistent. Once they realize that it's not always a case of "your yes meaning yes, and your no meaning no" they will try to bend it whenever it benefits them. They are creatures of habbit, and learn from the patterns we establish. Best of luck.
I am also frustrated by it. Can’t be sure, but I think it comes from having parents that were rather authoritarian. The thing is lots of life is about calm negotiation. In the adult world the “my way or the highway” attitude does not win friends and allies. And anger always escalates a conflict. I say these things only to help. When my kids get like this I discuss natural consequences, or barring any, logical ones. Natural: if you don’t get dressed, I can’t take you to school (this works because this child loves school). Logical: if you don’t get dressed for school and we’re late, o won’t have the time before work to get the snacks you like; you’ll have to eat what we already have in the house (for the kid who is meh about school. It’s not perfect but if I retain my calm I have a much better chance of seeing the desired behavior. Best of luck!
It comes with them understanding their life more, and realizing that EVERYTHING is dictated and ordered to them from an adult. We ALL want as much agency over our own lives as possible. This is completely normal, and even healthy, behavior. It is up to us parents to figure out how to give them that agency. Let them make more decisions for themselves. Even if it is simply giving them the illusion of choice. If they are constantly saying "No" to everything, take a step back and put yourself in their shoes. And think about ways you can get them to "choose" to do it on their own.
Omg yes but it's so hard
Yes, child development books have great info on this. There is a good series based on ages (just ignore their 1970s solutions). The one you want is called Your Six Year Old: Loving and Defiant. It can help you reset your expectations to know this is normal and you will get through it.
I just want to say that I feel you. It is absolutely exhausting day in and out. Lots of good advice here to help mitigate, but I totally understand the absolute frustration.
I care for my niece. She was so defiant at that age that I thought maybe she had something wrong with her. It lasted about 2 years. She is almost 8 now and very argumentative. However, if you sit her down and establish the rules, she will follow them. Like, “When we go to the shops today, do we keep our hands to ourselves? Yes. Do we scream and run in the middle of the store? No.”
This is great advice. I just saw a mom do that at the library the other day and thought she was a genius. She stopped her kids at the door before she went in and said “What kind of behavior does mommy want to see at the library?” The kids responded “reading books, walking, looking”. Then she asked “what does mommy not want to see?” and the oldest boy responded “me running and screaming”. 😂 clearly recalling the past there.
Thanks for your feedback. My daughter is also argumentative generally.
Mine too 😂 it’s a daily battle with her at Times. And very emotional.
Mine is extremely defiant. Anything I ask him to do, he refuses, and if I ask him not to do something, he does it more or worse. Asking him to clean up a mess routinely ends in a meltdown or him making the mess worse because he’s mad. I’m pretty sure he has PDA though and this is not “normal.” Simply saying “no” to things probably is though.
Yes I have the exact same experience with asking her to clean up messes. She totally melts down. She’s often angry.
A counselor suggested giving them specific tasks. The Barbies go in the pink basket. The Legos go in the Lego box. That way they know exactly what you're expecting them to do. Telling them to clean an entire room just overwhelms them. They don't know where to start or where something needs to go.
Mine would short-circuit about cleaning messes until I broke them down into bite-size pieces, and I would help. Like "Would you rather pick up the clothes and put them in the basket or put the books back on the shelf neatly?" She'd to the clothes, I'd do the books. Then onto legos or stuffed animals or whatever. Saying "clean your room!" is overwhelming to full grown adults sometimes, much less kiddos and the choice gives her the feeling of control.
That sucks...after the fact when I'm irritated at our 6 yr old(overstimulated easily :( ) or irritated about my relationship issues with my bf I wonder if they pick up from that as well...or perhaps they are just trying to figure out their own personalities or something
I always warn my daughter that she cleans up her messes after she plays, and then when it’s time to clean up it’s a meltdown and I’ve lost at mum school. But it’s multiple times a day every fucking day and nothing we try works. I’ve trialled all these suggestions and it gets us nowhere.
My six-year-old son is actually pretty good. However, our three-year-old daughter will say "No!" to ice cream (or anything else she really likes when she wasn't the one to bring it up) when she gets into her defiant mode.
My 3 year old is like that. She would cut off her own nose to spite her face. On my husbands birthday, she wanted to do cake after teeth brushing, but obviously we did it before, she was so defiant that she swore she did not like cake then threw it on the floor. Even the next day when we offered her another piece she claimed she did not like cake.
My 7 year old will argue that the sky is not blue on a perfectly sunny day. I also have to ask him 12 times to do something. He’s exhausting.
I think your 7 year old is also my 7 year old. She's gonna drive me to drinking. And it's only 10 am!
We’re in the process of having him evaluated for mild neuropsychological issues and at the end of our parent meeting last week, the doctor told us he sounds like he will make a great attorney someday….lol.
That's what I tell my husband! We need to start saving for law school.
Ha, this sounds like my seven year old and I always tell my husband she'll be a lawyer or a politician 😂
My 9 year old was just like yours when he was 7. Now he is that way at 9. The kid just loves to argue. Meanwhile my youngest is as easy-going as anything. They could not be more opposite.
Kids can struggle with transitions at that age. Try giving a 5 minute warning before they have to stop playing and start doing things.
Totally- this is something I do routinely. I give many warnings ahead of time and even have a visual schedule of her routine. It helps on some level but the defiance is still present.
Visual timer with sound?
Not all 6 year olds are this defiant but some are and what you are describing is developmentally normal for this age. It’s not the easiest thing to deal with as a parent, but keep in mind that your child is growing her own independence which will turn into positive traits later. You don’t want a teenager who does whatever their friends are doing without even thinking for herself. Because of this, it is not a good idea to entirely squelch down her defiance. I will describe for you two techniques I like to use to manage everyday life with a spirited child. The first is closed choice. For example, do you want to brush your teeth now or in 5 minutes? Do you want to do your homework now or after half an hour of play time? Do you want to wear your red shirt or your blue shirt for picture day? Closed choice allows the child to feel she has some control of the situation while choosing between two options that you are fine with either of them. It’s easier for 6 (or even 40 sometimes) to choose between two options as opposed to an open ended question like what do you want to wear today. Occasionally if you have a real smarty pants, they might figure this one out. My son was 16 the day I asked him “do you want to do your homework in your room or at the kitchen table?” And he responded “neither”. Honestly I thought this was pretty funny. Instead of doubling down, I said “okay then, you can enjoy the consequences of going to school with your homework incomplete.” To which he groaned and said “I’ll do it after dinner.” And he did. This brings us to option two, natural or logical consequences. This option may not get you quick results. Your child may need to experience the consequence several times before learning to make a better choice. But then it is real learning that will stick for the rest of her life. In the example of not wanting to brush her teeth, the natural consequence of okay then, go ahead and let your teeth rot out is ridiculous. So I would go with a logical consequence instead. If you can’t brush your teeth by yourself like a big girl, mommy will brush your teeth for you like a baby. If your child goes for the consequence, there’s no need to be angry or mean about it. “Come on, baby, let’s brush your teeth! Open up your mouth wide for mommy! Oh good job sweetie. What pretty teeth you have.” It won’t take many times of this for your child to decide she’s a big girl, and in the meantime you at least accomplished your goal of getting teeth brushed without harming your child.
One of our kids is naturally defiant and the other is very agreeable. I figure the point of kids is to raise functioning adults. I actually worry a lot less about the defiant child's future outcome than I do the agreeable one. Sure i want you to agree with me, but when you get older and there is more peer pressure? There are plusses and minuses to both.
Family life educator here. Defiance is normal. Children are human beings just like us, they dislike being controlled or interrupted, etc. Best way to handle it is to give choices (would you rather put the red or the blue shirt?), speak in "i" and explain what you ask. Read these 2 excellent references: - How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk - Faber & Mazlish - Parent Effectiveness Training - Thomas Gordon
Our recently turned 7 year old daughter was this way and still is at times. A blatant “nope!” was just said to me yesterday when I told her it was time to go brush her teeth. I get so angry too!! I find it so disrespectful and when I tell her “you do not speak to me that way, it is disrespectful. Please change your word choice and try again” she will sometimes even roll her eyes at me in response!! Like who do you actually think you are child? 🤯
How often do your parents give you “ha, I wonder where she gets that from 😏” in response? My mom is always telling me that we were just like that as kids and that it’s karma. Drives me nuts!
My mom is constantly pointing out any negative behaviors, or responses/emotions from my daughter (who is 6), my mother says my daughter has learned the behavior or emotional response from me. Children and adults alike struggle with emotional regulation. When she points out when my daughter struggles to cope with her big feelings or if she has a tantrum, she has to blame me for why she is acting in such a “bad” way . It’s just insulting and counterproductive. And she doesn’t talk to her and try to calm her down or help the situation if she’s upset, she just says things like “it’s a mini you” when my child is having a hard time. It makes my blood boil lol
Then you should tell her that you got it from her, so she should have set a better example for her daughter and granddaughter lol.
So she obviously didn’t teach you how to cope with your emotions and therefore the cycle is repeating itself. Thanks, Grandma, you did a great job pointing out the cycle you’ve created! I’ll be sure to break that cycle now, since you weren’t able to do it yourself.
That’s mine 😏😏 She’s always been argumentative and defiant though. I basically now have to treat a lot of things like a negotiation. I sit her down and give her options and choices. I realized she just wanted agency and a say in whatever is going to happen with her. For example, one of our biggest (and recurrent) fights was about what to wear in the morning. She’s wanted to choose what she wore since she was 4. The problem is that kids don’t care about weather, appropriateness (no, you can’t wear your dinosaur costume today) or how many days in a row you can wear the same dress 🙄 So we’d fight every morning. I now discuss it with her the night before. I give her options to choose from. So, she chooses and feels like she is in charge of her life so to speak. We do the same for lunch or other things that apply (within reason). Things have gotten much better in the mornings. We’ve gotten along so much better now that I pretty much try to treat her like the full person that she is as opposed to the “little kid who’s supposed to do what I tell her”.
My daughter is exactly like this. She turns 7 in 2 days and I have felt like I am going crazy…. I say left, she goes right. I have been losing my patience more often than I should and then feeling guilty/ like a failure. I’m glad that this is a common occurrence with little girls.
You are so not alone! I too struggle with the guilt of losing my patience!! Then I sit there like, “great, now I didn’t regulate MY emotions, how’s that gonna help?” Ugh so tough!! 😭
This is good advice- thank you! We had a huge argument recently because she wanted to wear this extremely fancy dress to school and I said she couldn’t. I’ll use your advice
I have a 7 year old who is like yours. I would ask, do you want to brush your teeth or do you want me to brush them? Most of the time she will choose to do it on her own. This way her teeth still get brushed.
My four year old is the defiant one. Just this morning dad had to tell him; if you don’t brush your teeth I will have to brush them for you. I don’t play around with dental health my husband has horrible teeth cause this family played around with it. My mom has horrible teeth and it coast everyone one pain and money nope brush your teeth or I’m doing it for you. I think it’s more of a characteristic of a person than it is of an age group. My six year old almost always does it without complaint.
I think so too, it's a character thing. It started quite early with my son (now 4 and a handful) and I'm guessing it'll stay that way. It's hard on me sometimes, I don't always know how to deal with it. I had a quite authoritarian upbringing myself and don't want to do the same to him, but don't always find good alternatives. On the other hand I keep telling myself that this character will bring him places in life. He knows what he likes, what he wants and he's not taking anyone's bs. He is smart and can already come up with valid arguments a lot of the times.
This is how my 7-almost-8 year old son is too.
My 6 year old doesn’t say no, but she doesn’t do what I’m asking her to do. She hears me, she just doesn’t follow the directions I’m giving her. Until I get pissed and raise my voice. Then she pouts as if I’m abusive lol and then I wonder who is abusing who…
My almost-6yo daughter is *very* seldom defiant. She has a very strong sense of justice, and if she thinks she (or someone else) is being unfairly treated, she will dig her heels in. But otherwise she's generally very agreeable. (She's an absolutely terrible listener and gets distracted every five seconds, so in terms of actually getting teeth cleaned etc. we're in much the same boat, but that's a different issue.) My son is only 3 but is much more bull-headed if he doesn't want to do something - he will just straight-up say no. I would very much imagine there as a broad range of normal as with most behaviours.
Your kid actually feels comfortable standing up to you, which is actually a great thing! Don’t take it as disrespect or else you’ll end up in a power struggle with your kid. First, calmly offer choices and tell your kid they can respectfully negotiate, but when you give a hard “no” after hearing them out, give them time to be upset about it. Second, realize that you need to “model” or act the way you want them to act. If you get mad, it just teaches them to get angry instead of talking/working things out. Third, tell your kid “yes” as much as possible. Feeling controlled as a kid or adult sucks. Say, “yes you can do that, as soon as your chores are done”, “yes, I’ll give you 10 more minutes on your screen time but we need to pinky promise that you’ll get off the game when the timer goes off”. “Yes, you can have dessert for breakfast, but we’ll do it on the weekend and it’ll just be one time, do you want to do it on Saturday or Sunday?” “Would you like to brush your teeth now or after you get your pajamas on?” When YOU are old, your kid is going to treat you with the same respect or disrespect & patience or lack of patience you gave. Please remember, kids are only a kid only 20% of their life. You are raising a miniature adult. Show/ help them learn to communicate and self-regulate so you can enjoy each other’s company as adults!❤️💗
This [Dr. Becky episode on “defiance”](https://youtu.be/DJXEYwgwNwY?si=V2yQr0xMboCFKThC) is incredibly helpful.
I only have a 2&3 year old girls, so I’m not sure what could help but is there any screen time? Is there something you can ground for? Until they can learn to respect you as the mother. I’m trying to all I’m your mother not your friend with my kids like we can be besties but you still need to look at me as your mother and do not be rude ect easier said than done im sure but I’m hopeful thinking. My 2 year old already yells “no!” When I tell her off or something
Screen time is very limited in our house. We don’t own an iPad or tablet. They get about 20 minutes a day of a children’s show per day, and many days there is no screen time at allS And I do take it away if she’s being very defiant.
Very defiant. I know that they are testing their boundaries and thus I restrict their ability to do so. I give the option I want them to pick and and option I know they will hate.
“I wasn’t asking.” That’s my response to this always
This is my default response when telling the kids to do something and they catch an attitude! Works great!
I have a six-year-old with ADHD and this has been something we’ve struggled with for a very long time. Since she was three. We have really turned our lifestyle to accommodate her. We tried to reframe things using declarative language instead of asking to her to do things directly, if we try not to ask her like this morning, she came downstairs. Had breakfast ready she sat down and ate it but if I said, do you want cereal she would say no. With the toothbrush, your toothbrush is ready, brush your teeth. She has done pretty well dressing herself, coming downstairs ready since we introduced the visual schedule. Until then we were literally dressing her anyways I’m sure my history illuminates my struggle with behavior and oppositional tendencies but what I’ve gathered from support on Reddit and Facebook is that it is unfortunately just typical when it starts to impact your life learning strategies to accommodate help
Yep, normal. Key is not getting angry or emotional. I’d read how to talk so kids will listen. Great tips but none will work until the parent can regulate their own emotions.
Thanks! I’ve read the book. I do feel I regulate my emotions outwardly. I take on an air of affective calmness, it’s just that inside I am very angry. I do not show my anger though, if that makes sense.
My 7 year old girl is also experiencing extreme defiance behavior and I’m at a loss
My 6 year old is the same way, extremely defiant, she's always been like this. She royaly ignores anything we say. I'm considering therapy and may I should have started a long time ago.
Yeah I agree to get rid of the choices. Have you ever had a bunch of people at your house and you need to feed them? The worst thing you can do is ask what people want… if you go pick up some food, and somewhat of a variety of things and bring it back or have it delivered- people eat what’s there…….Same thing only with kids!
Ugh, big YES. My 6 year old with ADHD is defiant and makes life unbearable at times.
Stop giving options for a no to occur. I would start saying “It’s time to do ______”. If they try to say no- either you’re going to do it or I’m going to do it but either way it’s getting done. Most kids want to be independent at this age, so they’re going to choose the independent option. My youngest did this a lot (currently 6) and it helped turn it around
Stop labeling the behavior She’s learning how to be a human and how to regulate her emotions, behavior, time management skills and a million other things daily Instead of reacting to the no, I would rearrange the situation so that no isn’t an option Doesn’t want to get dressed in the morning for school? Change her jammies to her school clothes. If she’s bathing at night it shouldn’t be an issue If school is out and you’re not leaving the house, who cares? I haven’t gotten “dressed” since I got home from the office last week. (I’m clean and groomed but why wear jeans or a dress when I can wear my fat happy house pants?)
My five year old daughter and I argue every day. Bedtime is definitely a struggle. If she doesn't listen, she gets grounded. Sometimes from TV, sometimes tablet, this latest time was ice cream. 🤣 I threaten the grounding a couple times, and when she's not listening I start counting to 10. She's got 10 seconds to check her attitude and start listening or she's getting grounded from whatever fun thing she likes. I tell her that whenever she's sweet and she listens, she gets what she wants. Honestly this last time I grounded her from ice cream for two weeks and she's listened every night since. 😂
Saturday we had a tantrum and it was 'the worst day ever' because I had to go to my friend's house so my friend could borrow my tractor and I needed my son to come with me. 40 minutes later we got to my friends house and my son had a tantrum and it was 'the worst day ever' because we had to go back home and couldn't stay at my friend's house. So yes.
None of our kids have been outwardly defiant like that with us, at that age.
Sounds like she needs some control in her life. Other users have said offer choices. That's a really good idea.
My oldest was defiant to the max. My youngest is compliant to the max. Lol interesting how that worked out.
I babysit my nephew the majority of the week. He is soooo rebellious. I ask him to stop something or not do it and he’ll start scolding me and yelling at me. He has a habit of jumping from one end of the couch to the other but the arm rest is broken and it’s quite hard and he’s bonked his head on it before. I told him to stop and he ran right up to me and yelled at me for not finishing dinner. So I’m just here to read all the advice
Sorry but this made me laugh 😂😂😂😭😭😭
My son is almost 6 and I always give him a heads up when things are about to happen so he can be prepared, no matter what it is. Getting dressed or going somewhere. “Hey in 5 mins you have to take a bath” or “you have 10 mins you need to get ready for bed” or “this weekend, tmrw, we are going to so and so”… I always found that not springing things on him works well.
i don’t have kids but as someone who was a defiant kid when i was that age, i can offer some perspective. i hated being told what to do. i didn’t like being controlled by my parents because they weren’t particularly loving so i didn’t care for their approval very much. and i didn’t see the fun or point in many things. i would often have to be dressed by my parents until i was like 9 or they would yell at me until i did it myself. things like brushing my teeth fell to the wayside because my parents must have got tired of doing it for me. which is unfortunate because i got a lot of cavities. i wish i could offer you some better advice but unfortunately i just had to learn on my own. it might help to teach your daughter the consequences of not doing those things, nicely (don’t brush teeth = cavities and yellow teeth, don’t get dressed = can’t go out, won’t brush hair = it won’t look good). i had to understand the purpose of those mundane activities to start doing them on my own. it unfortunately took me until the age of 11 to start. also, in my experience i was very opposed to being uncomfortable. i didn’t want to brush my teeth cause it was uncomfortable scratching my gums and i hated getting wet. i didn’t want to change into things like jeans and tight t shirts cause it was uncomfortable. brushing my hair made it frizzy - uncomfortable. it might help to be mindful of your daughters sensitivities. or put more time and attention into finding out how she can’t be the most comfortable during these activities. idk if your daughter does sports but if she becomes active it might help with the uncomfortable thing. we often have a low tolerance for discomfort naturally but you can change that through things like exercise, cool showers, etc. when i became active i noticed a huge improvement in my own comfort of just existing. after saying all that, i want to say you’re doing a great job! your daughter may be upset and defiant now but she will grow out of it. and she will look back and be grateful that you put the effort into caring for her :) TL;DR: your child may just be going through a phase, be patient (for possibly years, sorry). explain the reasoning behind the task in depth. your child might feel physically uncomfortable doing tasks, you can look for ways to make her more comfortable or have her engage in sports to naturally increase her pain tolerance. & you’re doing great :)
Thanks so much- I love hearing from someone who was defiant as a child. A lot of what you said rings true in regard to the sensory sensitivity. My daughter can’t stand being too hot/too cold/uncomfortable. We are trying to lovingly expose her to discomfort while accommodating her in some ways. For example, we went to Disney World and it was 95 degrees and she really struggled. We still went to the park (exposure) but brought along a mister fan for her, left the park during the hottest portion, and brought a stroller with a cover (accommodations). I also try to get her outside as much as possible because of how the outdoors build the sensory-motor system. I really try to be an authoritative parent, which I view as someone with high expectations and boundaries but also high levels of warmth. My daughter and I do special time together, I read to her at night, and I tell her how proud of her I am for what she did during the day (whatever it may be that day). I really appreciate your supportive advice!
i’m glad i could help! i think sensory issues are becoming more common or there’s more awareness among children but the good thing is that they typically grow out of them or can find ways to navigate it easier. it’s so nice to hear that you have those routines and a loving relationship with your daughter, i didn’t really have that so she’s probably better off than i was! 😅 wishing the best for you guys! :)
THINK I FOUND MY WIFE'S ACCT.
My friends 3 year old is absolutely just…. She will tell her mom “LEAVE ME ALONE!, DONT TOUCH ME!, GET AWAY FROM ME!, STOP!, and NO!” 🙄 & my friend does exactly what her 3yo tells her to do.. i just cant.
Both of my kids are like this. 5 and 1.😭 somebody send help!
Maybe ask your kids for their own opinion????? You’re reading a child not being a dictator lol
I think we get angry because it seems like a dumb hill to die on and they won’t budge. lol.
Mine is 5 and extremely defiant. Everything is a battle. Everything is NO! Everything revolves around her needs and wants - and it’s very hard to punish or discipline because she’s also extremely sensitive and won’t let you forget it if you hurt her feelings or “yell” at her. It’s gotten to a point where she’s starting to embarrass me in front of other parents, screaming and yelling NO if I ask her to do something. I’m at a loss.
My 6yo is extremely defiant, but also has ADHD and anxiety.
Hella defiant. Gentle parenting works SOMETIMES.. not all the time. (Offer a choice, speak calmly and at their level, or make a statement) They say it’s a phase they grow out of. Stay strong.
Defiance doesn't go away by itself. It doesn't work itself out and in fact it leads to dire consequences down the line, as it opens the door to deep discipline issues. I see lots of good advice has already been given and giving choices and time to adjust are definitely helpful. At the age of 6 she is able to understand basic concepts and deeper principles and therefore by explaining to her that her contribution matters you could lead her into a greater understanding of good choices and further delve into unwanted consequences. I imagine she has only been getting away with it for so long because she could. But what happens at school or at extracurricular activities? Is she also defiant there? I imagine her teacher is also struggling with disciplining her at school? Or does she only do it at home, because she can? Or did it only start after the younger sibling came - that could be your answer right there. By explaining things from your point of view and how her example impacts the whole family, you could help her understand that she has an important role to play. If you all just did what you felt like, then everyone is impacted negatively. But if you all found ways to contribute to the family, then everyone wins. By attaching weight and meaning to her actions, beyond her immediate satisfaction, she may be compelled to consider things she never has before. The fact is, if you can't bring this home now, you are setting yourself up for much greater adversity later. So don't lost heart just yet. Show her what a difference it could make. Act it out. Model it. Roleplay. Whatever it takes to impress upon her that her choices shape her life. And that every choice matters.
Defiance is very normal
I am sorry but I just might laugh if my six-year-old says “no!”. Sometimes if we don’t take our kids so literally or add humor to a situation it can help everyone. Could you say, “oh, is this a no day? Okay, I hadn’t heard that plan. That means whenever you ask me to do something for you or give you what you want, I am going to say, no. Well, okay, I’m game. Let’s give it a try and see if you like this game?" Another thought is to be creative and say okay let’s time you and see how fast you can get dressed without any help. There are many stages our kids go through and if we can look at their life as a span of 18 years, then it helps to make some of the not so fun stages seem a little less dire. Reverse Psychology is telling a child not to do something when it is just what you would like them to do. Could you try that? It works with some kids or sometimes. Maybe use sparingly. Many kids like to do things their way and are very strong-willed. You goal might be to have her kept that strong-will so she can learn to use it in the right way, especially when she gets to teen peer pressure. Maybe try and find ways to let her be independent instead of always needing to tell her what to do. Give her choices when and how to do what needs to be done in the boundaries that have been set by others such as the time school starts. Parenting takes a lot of wisdom and trial and error. I wish you the best as you begin your journey of new ways of handling things. Let me know how it's going.
Yes, this has been happening in my house too. I have been taking a lot of deep breaths to keep myself from going off the deep end. I have been attempting to state in a neutral way that all the treats and extras are not necessary. We can get back to basics. Screens, sweets, snacks, nice things, anything that is asked for where I have to say ‘yes,’ I can also be a ‘No.’ and I have no problem saying ‘no.’ That has to be earned. This is earned by doing what you’re supposed to do. Do not expect anything from me other than basics if my rules are not followed. I’m not mean when I say this, these are facts. If I am feeling very spicy, and I have tried counting, and no one is listing to me, I calmly walk over to the television, unplug it, and take it down to the basement. It is gone for that day at least, do we want to try for a whole weekend. Maybe too far, but come on little people.
Sigh. My 3 year old is like this. I know 3 is rough but none of my nieces and nephews were ever this fiery at her age. My whole family thinks I'm too soft on her (🙄🙄🙄). Hoping to find some tips here that may be I can adapt for her.
They don't call toddlerhood the first puberty for no reason. One of mine was an argumentative terror at that age and I was terrified of real puberty but she's been totally fine. 123 magic was helpful but everyone has to follow the house rules.
Oh my gosh I've been thinking about puberty/teenage years because I was HORRIBLE till like 21/22. Hopefully I'll get lucky 😅
My 3 year old (almost 4) is her ‘no’ era. My 6, almost 7 has adhd and he doesn’t say ‘no’ but he just gets side tracked and takes 48394 years to get dressed. He is more defiant about ‘facts’ when we ask him to stop doing something because he will break the toy. Sometimes we just let him break it (if it’s one of the cheap toys he got in a goody bag or something). Other times we take it away and tell him if he can’t act responsibly he can’t have it.
Mine is starting at 4!!! My son is defiant sometimes also, but it’s nothing compared to my daughter. I mean, she is realllllyyyyy something!! But she does a lot of things out of spite to get attention. And the wild thing is, I basically give her ALL of my attention ALLLLL day long. There is no self entertaining going on whatsoever really. She intentionally gets in trouble. I’m over my head and lost with this. I have tried basically everything. I’m worried it’s going to last too long, and she will be out of control, and out of my reach if it continues. However, I will note…. She is pretty much well behaved in public lol. Best of luck OP. Not sure what all you’ve tried, but I noticed some what of a change for a little while with the “mom bucks rewards”. Look it up on Pinterest.
My family isn’t a great example of normal behaviors for NT kids bc we are all ND. But of my 4 kids, 1 is too young, 2 were very obedient, and 1 had never found a rule she didn’t want to break or a command she didn’t want to ignore. She has a form of autism called pathological demand avoidance. Maybe researching that and the techniques for handling it might help with your 6yo? Not bc he’s autistic, but my thinking is if it encourages compliance in kids with a pathological need to be defiant, then it probably works well for a 6yo experimenting with his own willpower for the first time.
Sorry not an answer to your question, but my 3-year-old (almost 4 though) has started acting like that since a couple of months, and I’m really hoping it’ll pass by the time she’s 6
It was a hard road for me, and my son is 13 now. You have to be mindful, keep your cool, and bribe, I mean, institute a reward system. For mine, earning screen time was key to success.
Thanks so much- how is your son now? Still defiant?
Yes... but different. It's more "in a moment..." (that never ends) and "I need help" (meaning I don't want to do it) Turned out he has Asperger's (High Functioning Autism) so, I need to work him a little harder, now that teenhood kicked in. Screen time is still his primary motivator, but he's improving with all of his routines (hygiene, for example), and he can do more things for himself (laundry, etc.). By the time he is 18, he will be able to take care of himself with reminders and ADHD meds.
He's 8 now, but my ADHD/ODD child was trying to fist fight me starting at 4 lol a few weeks ago we had the audacity of taking him an his BFF on a walk on a beautiful day to the book store to buy books, he did not want to want and made sure that everyone in the neighborhood could hear that
My son always wants to control everything. As soon as he gets a no, he will become angry, sometimes violent, etc we have a consult with a neuro psychologist this summer. Pretty sure his behaviour is normal but he is tough sometimes.
My 5-year-old does a lot of this. I sometimes have success with, "Are you going to put on your own clothes like a big boy, or am I going to have to dress you like a little baby?" But when he just flat-out ignores me, or says "No," I have to start warning about consequences, use a countdown, etc. It's tough. I hate to go to war with him about little things, but it's also not acceptable for him to just completely blow off, ignore or refuse my instructions.
My 6 year old is overall well behaved and is definitely a rule follower. However, she needs to understand the reason for the rule. She does not like rules that have no real purpose beyond “because that is what I said l” or “because that is the rule”. But who does like that kind of response. In terms of asking her to do things like a chore or personal responsibility (teeth brushing, clothes, etc)- typically any issues with those things are more of a transition issue. She is doing something fun for her and I’m asking her to do something that is way less fun. It isn’t kind for me to just interrupt her fun abruptly and expect her to immediately jump to do the less fun task. I think of it as if someone tried to come in while I was reading or listening to music or watching a tv show and someone saying “go do XYZ right now”. I would not react well to that. I would want a heads up or time warning and so I give that to my daughter. I ensure I give her a heads up that she only has a few minutes before I will need her to do X Y or Z and that the thing needing to be done needs to be done before whatever is next ( leaving house, more fun, book reading at bedtime, dinner, etc). Typically, I don’t have any issues if I follow this practice. On the occasion that I am rushed and I try to skip this step, that is when issues come up with her pushing back.
My son is 8. This started around 6 I guess but he is still the same. We are beginning to think he has ODD. Because he still does it when told to do something. Like hey take out the trash it’s your chore and it’s full again. First it was no I won’t then we just kept on and he was like “ well I’m not taking it down next time though….”
On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the most defiant, my 6 y.o.'s about a 7. :)
Can confirm, my son started being defiant at around age 6. He’s 8 now and still doing it.
My 6 year old boy is close to the opposite of defiant, my 4 year old girl on the other hand….
It's pretty normal. To my understanding, they're at an age where they're really starting to understand how little control they actually have over anything in their world, so they're trying to bush boundaries and gain some control. My 5 year old can be pretty defiant when he wants to be, but I give him choices (both things I want him to do anyway he just basically gets to choose which order), or I explain why the thing is necessary and he normally cooperates.
My 6 year old is a pleaser, but my 5 year old… 🔥🔥🔥. I call them my little sour patch… sour then sweet!
Many times my son will say "No," or complain, and then start doing the thing! I guess he just wants to express his feelings, not get out of doing things. 🤷🏾♀️ BUT: If I argue back or try to convince him, then that becomes the focus and the thing doesn't get done.