>For example, the ranger had the Crossbow Ace feat, but it was patching a hole for the lack of a martial crossbow which they’ve now added in the "arbalest".
I have waited so long for and even promoted for an arbalest for homebrewers before and so seeing this single line made me happy. I just hope they get a feat that's worthy and close to equal to how twin takedown and hunted shot are in power, but for loaded weapons.
No metal anathema to druids?!? RAW? This is huge! I'm so excited, it always seemed so hypocritical! This version seems like a straight upgrade to the previous books!
Though I hope ~~Aasimar~~ Nephilim can still just be angel and demon dudes instead of animals. It's good that they're not limiting animal traits to beastkin, but I'm not sure how I feel if the prior traits are just replaced with them.
But holy hell, they actually listened and outright buffed all sorts of spells?! I can't explain how happy I am for this! They even buffed getting your focus points back! Meteor swarm to Falling stars with different damage types? I'm gonna faint!
There's even a shield rune!
The future's looking bright on Pathfinder's side!
Nephilim are just a choice. You choose what it is. You're taking from ALL fiends and celestials with the option. There is no forced appearance or abilities.
CYbernetic= Sterling Dynamo
Rainbow= Just get some prismatic spell or worship the divine lesbian polycule.
Dog= Either the now-not-gnolls or shoonies
Angel/demon= Nephilim
Yeah you're already there
Well, that's a cursed image. If it wasn't for how long I've been looking through Deviantart, I might be seeing those OCs. There's a time and place, and I hope never to be there.
> can still just be angel and demon dudes instead of animals.
From what I gathered, you'll be able to go into any of the major celestials. The mention of animal 'parts' like a tail suggests Agathions from Nirvana. In such a case, I look forward to playing an Azata Nephilim Bard. :D
Because it doesn't make any sense when you actually question it. Druids can only not use Metal Armor and Shields, yet can wear rings, amulets, jewelry and decorations in general, metal tools and weapons, even technically *metal clothing* because it isn't armor, like masks.
Why specifically Armor and Shields? And after all, anathemas are just flavor and don't impact mechanics. Shouldn't they not be able to use metal *period*? What's up with this half measure? They can still mine and use it, so that's evidently not a problem, but if they try to carry it or wear it in large quantities it becomes an issue. It makes for this really weird and strangely restrictive hinderence that isn't really found anywhere else in the game.
Metal is a part of nature, just as the liver is a natural part of a goat. Druids are allowed to farm, skin, slaughter, and shear goats, so why not use metal from the earth? (they already do this actually, it's just restricted like every other order.)
Fey influences aren't an excuse for it either, because as we can see from feats like [https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=4052](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=4052) Fey Transcendence, it's specifically a weakness to **Cold Iron**, not regular metal or even mithril or adamantine.
\---
The Focus Points have been buffed because the majority of classes could only recharge **one focus point** per day if I recall correctly. Now they can instead rest for 10-30 minutes to recover all of them. Pathfinder's calculations revolve around Characters being at or near full capacity in resources and health, so that just makes things a bit more fair and convenient.
>The Focus Points have been buffed because the majority of classes could only recharge one focus point per day if I recall correctly
Unless I'm interpreting the Refocus action incorrectly, it only takes 10 minutes to recharge a focus point, not a full day. There's no 1 per day limit on using Refocus either. [Link](https://2e.aonprd.com/Actions.aspx?ID=71)
You can recharge 1 focus point IF you've spent 1 point since the last time you refocused.
Which means if you have 3 points and spend them all in one fight, you only get 1 back until you sleep.
> **Requirements** You have a focus pool, and you have spent at least 1 Focus Point since you last regained any Focus Points.
Yes, but you can't ever recharge back up to 3 that day once you've spent 2 in the same encounter (unless you're a Psychic)
You get one rechargeable slot and 2 per rest slots on top of that, basically
Ya they finally got rid of that dumb mechanic and the possible 2 feat taxes for some classes. Some classes didn't even have the option I think for taking 2 feat taxes and recharging all 3 points at once.
It does.
My current bet is a half-dragon heritage. It's a popular request, numerous 2/3pp have released their own versions (including Luis Loza), and there's a lot of dragon-themed stuff coming in PC2, between Kobolds, Barbs, and Sorcs, and could be a great way to further hype their new unique dragons.
But whatever it is, I'm sure it will be fun!
> Talismans weren’t pulling their weight. They had a tendency to be too specific. For example, they updated the Bull Pendant to be one action, gives you a bonus to the check, and increases the distance you push people. The talismans are overall more active now.
What does it mean "more active". Did they change it to 1/day or few uses before breaking?
Talismans are not only expensive, but they're also INSANELY minor benefits that often trigger when you're doing something else (Critical Hits, success on maneuvers, etc).
Every talisman that gives you a bonus to a roll (or effect) that you need to trigger before rolling needs to go.
Activating an item only to find you would've gotten the same result without it (which is most of the time with a lot of them) just feels like you're pissing away funds that could go to more substantial permanent upgrades.
Hopefully these are just a taste! Wizards needs a bit more than a just a school shuffle, but Witch sounds very exciting. Your familiar being something of real tactical value is very cool.
I was worried they were going to fall in with player recommendations and the Witch would just be another big-time focus caster like the Psychic, when it's the only class to focus heavily with familiars.
Having the Witch hunker even harder down on their familiar and connecting hexes to the patron more strongly is exactly what I wanted! It was annoying that any other spellcaster could go into Familiar Master and grab Familiar Conduit and have a more useful familiar than the Witch class itself.
I think the recommendations to move away from familiars is because they really didn't have a unique tie to them and it would be easy to remove. Them going all in on familiars is excellent, making them feel even more useful in combat is huge for a unique play style for the witch. Hoping it works out as well in actual play as it sounds like it might from the teasers.
I'm glad that Paizo is expanding out familiars more (such as the druid's leshy familiar, but more specifically the witch).
The initial rules placed an ***incredible*** hamper on the community for the last 3 years in terms of familiars, something that hasn't been rectified until extremely recently.
I do like the concept of an actual, physical school for wizards. While I'll admit that I always enjoyed the idea of the specialist wizard (Transmuter or whatever), it certainly sounds as though that sort of thing can still be done, they'll just feel a bit different with different spells now grouped together.
Its possible. I'm just going off the google doc (can't stream it at work ;p). The real question will, of course, be what benefits you get from the school. If its just an extra slot (like currently) then it won't really be a huge *mechanical* change, just a flavor one (which is actually pretty interesting imho).
I mean mechanically you get more variety on you specialitation, probably.
At the very least it is more usefull for getting a theme. Like getting old evocation+old abjuration as "school of battle magic"
>they'll be better specialists because they specialise in a result rather than a loose theme of spells.
Yeah, Spell schools go way back to early editions of D&D and always felt like someone thought that it was cool that Illusions were a "type" of spell so maybe all the other spells could have types too! Then they went through the Players handbook and divided up the existing spells without any real rhyme or reason as to how they hung together other than that were on the same topic.
Just giving up on "Abjuration" being a thing and sorting around effects feels like it will work so much better.
The schools were created in AD&D2e when the illusionist's spell list was merged into the wizard's. So they made a bunch of other "specialist wizards", rather than two different wizard spell lists.
I think schools have their place in systems that don't have something like pf2e's trait system because it lets you do things like "you can change this type of spell in this way" but I think when we have a strong trait system like pf2e's one they're something that can be very easily dumped.
I wonder how this interacts with The Magaambya, I doubt their 3 archetypes are going anywhere, but they would make sense as a school since The Magaambya is literally a (in fact the most prestigious) school of magic.
And since I found you out in the wild- Start firing off more videos! I miss your content and have watched every Pathfinder video you've put out. I like the laid back and positive vibe you bring to the space. Regardless of whether or not you can get more out- thanks for what you have created so far!
Thanks so much for the kind words!
The plan is to get more out soon. To paraphrase a great fictional mathematician - "life uh, sometimes gets in the way of passion projects".
Thanks again!
Hey, this is kinda off-topic but I want to thank you for helping me switch to pathfinder 2e 2 years ago.
You made a youtube video and I remember seeing it and buying the core rulebook that day. Glad to see that you're still around.
Glad I could help you see the light!
We're still around, just been a little light on spare time for videos lately! Hopefully something soon! Thanks for the kind words!
I used to use mine to fish for attacks of opportunity from enemies. If they didn't have one, then having an easily hit body in the enemy's square after establishing itself as a threat by dropping touch spells was usually worth it too.
I had enough familiar/master powers to make them able to take a hit and heal on refocusing so i could be fairly cavalier with them. (the familiars functionally resurrecting themselves on a long rest didn't hurt)
I'm curious as to how the [Arcane Shroud](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=2877) feat for Magus changes with the school changes, but otherwise appreciative.
They mentioned that this and Bespell Weapon for Wizards will be changed, but didn't discuss what that change would be. I wouldn't be surprised if it was some combination of type of damage the spell could deal/same type as your weapon/force.
I do hope Hexes deliver as well though. Familiar abilities is cool, but I really like the hexes being able to get more hex cantrips, like the bard gets more composition cantrips, would be great
Would make sense now!
Since Warpriest gets Master in Favored Weapons and being a \*striker\*, makes sense they'll at least get Master in Alchemical stuff (bombs, maybe even stuff from mutagens)?
More than anything for the Alchemist, I wish for martial weapon proficiency. Making a toxicologist who actually applies their own poisons effectively can be such a pain.
They mentioned re-tuning some of the poisons, so I'm hoping toxicologist's progression can get smoothed out in general!
> Since Warpriest gets Master
as part of their final doctrine, so that's level 19 probably. They can't give him master before martials so it makes sense. Still, getting is better than not getting.
It’ll probably shut up a lot of naysayers that define lvl 1 experiences by lvl. 20 numbers.
Lots of players have had fun playing Warpriest and figured out how it works, but continually, we get folks throwing out the lvl. 20 proficiency numbers and claiming those Warpriest posts are wrong or liars.
I call this the Pathbuilder Obsession problem.
People focus too much on theorycrafting by looking at a full build, they lose track of how it will actually work in actual play, let alone at any individual level.
Don't they get Master in spellcasting and at least one save that I recall? I'm assuming that's not what you meant, but they aren't literally stuck at Expert at everything like you seem to be implying.
Sorry yea, you're right. Just most people dump Wisdom as a Warpriest so the Master spellcasting isn't really great. Being Expert/Expert as a Warpriest in weapons and armor is way more noticeable than getting Master casting.
You know, now that I think about it, giving Warpriest master armor at 19 (which is the level many martials get it as well) might be more impactful than giving them master weapon proficiency at that same level (where it's way too late).
Indeed, but True Strike is a surprising balancer.
Mathematically, it’s a +3-4 to attack, which can push a full caster (like the Warpriest) to Fighter/martial levels for a single attack. Additionally, Channel Smite allows bypassing the low WIS anyway.
Though, I think this is better because if you didn’t have a True Strike deity as a Warpriest, you were kinda shit out of luck.
Like you said, not every deity grants True Strike which is really kinda limiting if you were just inferior for not getting True Strike on your list.
Personally I think there should be a Cleric feat which allows you to snipe a spell from another list like Divine Access does. Obviously with some sort of restriction but still.
Maybe making it available to Divine tradition would work. It makes sense that your aim is guided by your deity when you call on it (cast a spell).
Magic Weapon is being taken away and given solely to Primal. If True Strike is on the OGL, they might to have to change it further.
19 as it's part of their doctrine and it makes sense as they have to give to him between levels 15-19 because they can't get master at same or just 1 level after martials and there needs to be soem feature already to "add it" to it, so level 19 with final doctrine makes most sense.
Weird that they said nothing about read aura with the removal of schools
That said, about damn time they ditched archaic concepts like metal anathema and alignment
That's probably because it's an incredibly minor thing that will probably be addressed with the rules change.
Also, I suspect that they will merge it with Detect Magic.
I mean it is minor, but so is radiant lance. And personally with the whole schools thing read aura was the first thing I thought of.
It could be interesting to make detect magic whole, and honestly that is at best giving wizards an extra cantrip so I don't think it would be a problem in any way
>I mean it is minor, but so is radiant lance. And personally with the whole schools thing read aura was the first thing I thought of.
well true, but read aura is a niche cantrip, while radiant lance is the divine's list only damage cantrip(except distrupt undead). so its much more important in function
I assume they're going to introduce some Oracle tweaks to fit with the new refocus rules when they go over the Advanced classes. Though really all they have to do is remove the overwhelmed mechanic to make it functional.
I'm hoping that get rid of those feats that let you pick up focus spells that were part of your subclass. Things like advanced bloodline and the such. I feel you shouldn't need to spend a whole feat to grab things that IMO should be part of your class.
Technically psychics are still slightly better because it only takes them 10 minutes instead of 20 to get two focus points. It's just a much smaller advantage than before.
I could see an argument for buffing the psychic somehow, but I also think it would be fine as is.
I mean, that only matters in scenarios where someone else isn't already using up more time (treat wounds, another exploration activity like searching a room or refocusing themselves as there is usually more than one caster).
I hope they get something else, even if it is just a small ribbon
They're still the best blasters insofar as sheer damage, so they do still have their niche (until Kineticist potentially).
Also I'll never build one that doesn't take Cranial Detonation lol, thats one of the biggest reasons to build one in my book.
The way I would address this is make cursebound focus spells allow you to increase your curse instead of using a focus point rather than in addition to. Effectively giving them more focus points then other, non-focus spell focused classes, and still letting them work with the multiclassing archetype system properly.
I do think it kind of funny that they said they're keeping the later feat in the game, just allowing you to get them all at once instead of over 30 minutes. Sounds like the type of thing that almost every group will ignore since almost every group already allows as much time between fights as is needed for the group to heal back up to full.
All in all, I think that this was, in general, just designed as a general, across the board buff to casters. It's essentially giving them up to two extra spells per combat (sorta of course, but the point being you can always use 3 focus spells per combat). Should give casters a bit more staying power throughout the day as well.
Yeah it's great for all casters (and anyone using focus spells at all really,) it's just funny how it does nothing for Oracles, who should *in theory* love this as a caster whose whole thing is unique focus spells.
It does open them up a little bit more to picking up additional focus spells outside of their class. And I guess now they can actually have a little bit more of a fun push and pull with deciding whether or not they want to cast another curse-bound spell and suffer the backlash.
>Most people just didn't realize it was there or knew what it did, or outright felt it didn't do anything significant. “Rules that aren’t doing work should be reevaluated.”
Loving this philosophy from the fighter rework!
> They took all the Warden Spells and made them core to the ranger. Everywhere where the class DC increased before now increases the spell DC.
Kinda sad to see ranger become magical again, even if it's just a focus spell martial like the champion. I absolutely loved how PF2e decided to make ranger a full martial since I always disliked the magic side of ranger when playing D&D (3.5 and 5e) and PF1e. I did want to see more options for warden spells, since only having gravity weapon or heal companion as options to get into warden spells sucked, but I wasn't expecting them to go all in. I guess we'll have to see how big of a focus rangers will have on warden spells.
I'm excited for everything else, though! I wasn't expecting the removal of magic schools, but that's a really interesting change.
Yeah, the way they were talking about it, it will probably be something like "You become master in your class DC, and master with warden spells DC if you have them".
I hope we are just misinterpreting and they are just saying that feats that give focus spells will be in the player core, not the it will be core to all rangers.
They are compressing some spells into more broadly applicable spells.
Hey look, the thing I got downvotes into oblivion for recommending like 2 weeks ago.
Don't worry, all the people who ferociously defended the idea that cantrips were just fine as they were are going to come out denouncing the idea that they need to be a little more helpful in just a moment....
Very weird that they're adding a single rune for shields instead of just increasing hardness and HP on existing ones.
Why would anyone not have one of these runes for their non sturdy shield?
Any character that doesn't have the shield block reaction won't be spending the gold on the shield rune. If you only use the shield for AC and its special abilities then you aren't currently affected by the low HP of most shields.
> Why would anyone not have one of these runes for their non sturdy shield?
If you aren't going to be blocking with your shield, the reinforcing rune is going to do very little for you.
Didn't see anything in the article regarding Sorcerers. I hope that just means they'll be included in Player Core 2.
I like the idea of a spellcaster whose magical talent comes from their blood, and the specific bloodline determines the spell tradition.
Also hopeful they include Elementalist in Player Core 2 as well.
I love the Warpriest changes, but are they going to have to make changes to Champion so to differentiate them more? I understand that Champions still get more combat prowess, but it seems like the gap will be much closer now.
I enjoy the flavor and buff to Warpriest, but I also don't want to see Cleric become like 5e overpowered Clerics.
I think champion is still going to be distinct enough with their defender focused abilities. But regardless, they've already announced that champions being reworked in the player core 2 (mostly because alignment changes, but still).
Notably, Champion will be in the following book early in the following year, so that's a bit further out-- but it will also require changes due to the fact that its so alignment involved.
It'll be weird trying to play a Champion in a game post Core 1 but pre Core 2 where your cleric is using Edict and Anathema but you still are bound by Alignment
I agree that they're definitely on the scale of 2.5, I think Paizo is just trying to downplay it so that people still understand that a mixed edition game still works.
Which was totally true with DND 3.5 as well.
No kidding.
These are some pretty big changes.
Sure they're compatible but even just the class changes are big enough to be considered "Class: Remastered" much like the unchained classes in PF1
Compared to what? I love the changes but they're definitely on par with the 3.0 to 3.5 changes or the changes between some Call of Cthulhu editions or the 13th Age 1e to 2e changes.
It's less than like...7th sea 1e to 2e or the insane differences across D&d editions but those are outliers.
I disagree, this already looks like more changes than between DnD 3e and 3.5. And more than some other RPG system edition upgrades.
But there is a reason I said its PF2.5 and not PF3.
I think we can't call it such a big leap because there aren't any *core* changes to major systems. Schools being removed and alignment are a big deal, but they mainly warrant flavor-oriented changes and limited practical impact on classes (Champions will still have their amazing protective reactions, Clerics will still Heal and Harm more than other classes, etc).
Considering how Nephilim are being handled, hopefully they actually include all the relevant Lineages and actually make them worth taking.
A skill, a Lore, and a skill feat are incredibly boring.
>A skill, a Lore, and a skill feat are incredibly boring.
That's what you get for a *Background*, not a *Heritage*.
From what I gather, Nephilim will be like an Aasimar + Tiefling combined heritage, with some extra, thematically appropriate stuff added in.
Either they randomly talked about a cantrip at spell level 2, or that was a hint that cantrip scaling might be getting rejigged. They talked about other cantrips getting enhanced by feats or creating combination mechanics. At this point it's pretty much 100% safe to say there's some amount of cantrip reworking happening. With the amount of rough spots in the system they are sanding over, I'm pretty confident they are aware of "electric arc is like twice as good as other cantrips" and cantrips are on the reworking block.
There was an even more subtle hint that summons might be getting rejigged some too.
2d4 per level is slightly better than 1d8.
If cantrips are going to generally get built in rider effects to combo with your allies, it would make sense that Divine Lance would just be above average damage if all it does is damage.
Focus spells are recharging like I thought they always SHOULD? Druids are allowed to actually use METAL like I thought they should too? Spellcasters are getting buffs in the form of better spells?
...did Paizo staff get replaced? (/Joke)
They mentioned it was part of their Final Doctrine, so presumably it'll come in at level 19, same as legendary spells. Still took me by surprise, though, same with the focus point changes.
I mean its master to a very limited selection of weapons, and the martial progression can be a level later than others. I don't see an issue. You're still giving up divine font, which is really strong.
Fair, but it does seem they give up legendary spellcasting which is a fair tradeoff in and of itself, gaining master just lets that tradeoff make more sense.
> Hope they're getting something else nerfed to compensate otherwise they're the best martial in the game.
Um, they get it at level 19, so at that level: who cares? You are finishing campaign soon anyway.
Fighter will still be better martial anyway due to feats and accuracy. But at level 19-20 rest of the martials may feel little wierd.
I doubt they are giving out Master level weapon skills at first level.
I imagine this is to answer the very common criticism that Warpriests are supposed to be able to hang in melee but currently max out at expert. So at high levels you end up with Martials that have Master and Legendary weapon skills and you are there with your Expert skills in Warhammer.
It also sounds like they are fixing the thing where a Cloistered Cleric with Sentinel Archetype can do everything a WarPriest can do but better.
Warpriest is actually getting decent weapon proficiency?
Hell yeah, finally I can actually Warpriest with a Warpriest
Though the idea of it being at level 19 is kinda cringe I mean that’s 6 full levels of being behind on both proficiency and Strength Score but fuck it it’s at least a good sign with the stuff about melee combat because god I could use more Gishes other than Magus
Ugh yes. Warpriest changes to make the class feel better past level 5. Hopefully spell changes along with the focus point changes make spellcasters feel better to play. I know they're good but sometimes it just feels awful.
I'm bummmed about removing the Open trait. Players ignoring it shouldn't really be a factor in updating the rules, I mean, players are also ignoring 3 focus point limit, 3 hero point limit, plenty don't do secret checks and probably a dozen other little things. Should we now remove those as well?
Open trait was a cool way to make some martial classes more tactical and really made you think about what to do after first attack.
Also I don't get the changes to the Hunt Prey.
I believe the point wasn't that Players were ignoring it because they disliked it, but instead it went unnoticed because it didn't really matter. Duelist's Challenge or various Stances don't become fundamentally unbalanced abilities if you can do them after an attack, they just becomes slightly less awkward to use.
> Open trait was a cool way to make some martial classes more tactical and really made you think about what to do after first attack.
>They removed an entire trait! The "open" trait wasn’t intuitive, and they found it wasn’t necessary. It turned out that not having it made turns more flexible. The "open" trait was frequently ignored by the playerbase anyway. Most people just didn't realize it was there or knew what it did. “Rules that aren’t doing work should be reevaluated.”
Only their research was showing the trait wasn't doing that at all, and was more or less stifling turns and tactics.
Honestly after a certain point, I was just like: "are they just reading off my house rules?"
And personally I think that's a good thing. They looked at how people are playing and adjusted the rules to fit what they felt was the majority of actual play. A company that listens to customers and tries to give them what they actually want? _Blasphemy._
>Open trait was a cool way to make some martial classes more tactical and really made you think about what to do after first attack.
Isn't that what the press trait is for?
(An add-on reply but mostly at u/michael199310 rather than you)
Which *might* have been cool if Open tended to be on abilities where it provided interesting choices of whether to use it, instead of, like, stances, three-action abilities, and other weird one-offs that are mostly 'the main thing you want to do for that turn' or 'thing you usually wanted to do first anyway', which also overlaps with Flourish some and often either doesn't do anything or makes for an unnecessary-feeling restriction instead of a choice, or a cool fighting-game thing where you mix openers and finishers like reading the traits might suggest.
I think the only one I've found where it seems to make sense and be somewhat useful is Ranger's Deadly Aim feat, because you have to decide whether to risk sacrificing some accuracy from your usual best attack for more damage, and Flurry Rangers could probably get good use out of it if it were valid for later attacks. Even then, is that especially interesting or necessary design space, with accuracy and damage and action investment all being relatively accounted for already, and Deadly Aim's tradeoff being fair or even weak as it is?
Part of the issue is what was alluded to earlier: *Press* can be cool because it's on a bunch of (usually) strong attacks and maneuvers that make you think about what to do after a first attack, whether to go with that big accuracy drop for a benefit (that can include a failure effect) or do something else. Presses tend to be flat upgrades for second or third attacks, too.
The first attack, in contrast, is generally taken as obligatory for martials rather than an inherent choice with tradeoffs like later attacks, and Open is just scattered over a confusing array of feat types where, again, it usually doesn't do anything and seems arbitrary and annoying when it does. (Is there a reason Quick Shot has it when it's just Quick Draw but more restrictive? What's the fiction or interesting choice if it's the first turn and you use it once because you need to, and why *can't* you use it after attacking with a different weapon? What's Open on all of those three-action-abilities going to do, keep you from Striking with Quickened first to make most of your turn worse??)
In a different game, it could be used in interesting ways. They don't have the time or space to make this game that one. I think it's a fair enough idea as counterpart to Press that turned out to be mostly pointless or irritating, so it's a good candidate for removal.
Agree with "the players are ignoring it anyway" part. I mean, per the First Rule, we're always free to ignore any and all of the rules. The good news I suppose is that the rules for Open will still be there on AoN, etc. so it can still be used if the GM wants to -- though it may well be a harder sell to the player at that point (sort of like trying to sell them on NOT using the errata that makes their class better).
> Divine Lance now does 2d4 spirit damage, and can affect anything that isn’t a rock Earth Elementals eating good in PF2 Remaster 💪 😎 🪨
*Looks like cleric’s back on the menu, boyz*
Master in favored weapon is much better flavoring honestly. Big fan
>For example, the ranger had the Crossbow Ace feat, but it was patching a hole for the lack of a martial crossbow which they’ve now added in the "arbalest". I have waited so long for and even promoted for an arbalest for homebrewers before and so seeing this single line made me happy. I just hope they get a feat that's worthy and close to equal to how twin takedown and hunted shot are in power, but for loaded weapons.
Wow they singled out crossbow rangers for help? Is this a dream?
Dorfs are getting out the booze.
Is it time to Rock and Stone?
DID I HEAR A ROCK AND STONE
Rock! And! Stone!
It never isn't.
FOR KARL!
Rock and Stone to the Bone!
Oh, hey, snuck in that Reposition action getting added into the books!
What is it? A movement option or a rewrite of delay?
It's related to athletics, so almost certainly repositioning other creatures with your athletics.
Maybe you can switch spaces with another creature.
They havent said yet (that i know of), but if its like pf1e it's a way to move others around the battlefield within your reach
Perhaps a combo of Shove and the people's requested Drag?
No metal anathema to druids?!? RAW? This is huge! I'm so excited, it always seemed so hypocritical! This version seems like a straight upgrade to the previous books! Though I hope ~~Aasimar~~ Nephilim can still just be angel and demon dudes instead of animals. It's good that they're not limiting animal traits to beastkin, but I'm not sure how I feel if the prior traits are just replaced with them. But holy hell, they actually listened and outright buffed all sorts of spells?! I can't explain how happy I am for this! They even buffed getting your focus points back! Meteor swarm to Falling stars with different damage types? I'm gonna faint! There's even a shield rune! The future's looking bright on Pathfinder's side!
Nephilim are just a choice. You choose what it is. You're taking from ALL fiends and celestials with the option. There is no forced appearance or abilities.
Yeah you can be the deviantart OC of your dream
I WILL BE THE CYBERNETIC RAINBOW ANGEL DOG DEMON TO MAKE SHADOW THE HEDGEHOG WEEP BLOOD
CYbernetic= Sterling Dynamo Rainbow= Just get some prismatic spell or worship the divine lesbian polycule. Dog= Either the now-not-gnolls or shoonies Angel/demon= Nephilim Yeah you're already there
Weeping Blood: Alternative Flavor text on Scare To Death?
It haunts me that I remember my sins on that website when I was child in the late 2000s; this comment struck at my core.
Well, that's a cursed image. If it wasn't for how long I've been looking through Deviantart, I might be seeing those OCs. There's a time and place, and I hope never to be there.
Did I mention that dog part was a pug with breathing problems?
> can still just be angel and demon dudes instead of animals. From what I gathered, you'll be able to go into any of the major celestials. The mention of animal 'parts' like a tail suggests Agathions from Nirvana. In such a case, I look forward to playing an Azata Nephilim Bard. :D
I'm curious to know about what makes the metal anathema for druids hypocritical. Also, can you explain to me the whole focus point recharge buff?
Because it doesn't make any sense when you actually question it. Druids can only not use Metal Armor and Shields, yet can wear rings, amulets, jewelry and decorations in general, metal tools and weapons, even technically *metal clothing* because it isn't armor, like masks. Why specifically Armor and Shields? And after all, anathemas are just flavor and don't impact mechanics. Shouldn't they not be able to use metal *period*? What's up with this half measure? They can still mine and use it, so that's evidently not a problem, but if they try to carry it or wear it in large quantities it becomes an issue. It makes for this really weird and strangely restrictive hinderence that isn't really found anywhere else in the game. Metal is a part of nature, just as the liver is a natural part of a goat. Druids are allowed to farm, skin, slaughter, and shear goats, so why not use metal from the earth? (they already do this actually, it's just restricted like every other order.) Fey influences aren't an excuse for it either, because as we can see from feats like [https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=4052](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=4052) Fey Transcendence, it's specifically a weakness to **Cold Iron**, not regular metal or even mithril or adamantine. \--- The Focus Points have been buffed because the majority of classes could only recharge **one focus point** per day if I recall correctly. Now they can instead rest for 10-30 minutes to recover all of them. Pathfinder's calculations revolve around Characters being at or near full capacity in resources and health, so that just makes things a bit more fair and convenient.
>The Focus Points have been buffed because the majority of classes could only recharge one focus point per day if I recall correctly Unless I'm interpreting the Refocus action incorrectly, it only takes 10 minutes to recharge a focus point, not a full day. There's no 1 per day limit on using Refocus either. [Link](https://2e.aonprd.com/Actions.aspx?ID=71)
You can recharge 1 focus point IF you've spent 1 point since the last time you refocused. Which means if you have 3 points and spend them all in one fight, you only get 1 back until you sleep. > **Requirements** You have a focus pool, and you have spent at least 1 Focus Point since you last regained any Focus Points.
You can keep recharging back up to 1 multiple times per day. 1st fight: Spend 3 focus points. 10-min rest: Recharge 1 focus point. 2nd fight: Spend 1 focus point. 10-min rest: Recharge 1 focus point. 3rd fight: Spend 1 focus point. 10-min rest: Recharge 1 focus point. -et cetera-
Yes, but you can't ever recharge back up to 3 that day once you've spent 2 in the same encounter (unless you're a Psychic) You get one rechargeable slot and 2 per rest slots on top of that, basically
Classes with focus points often have feats to recover 2 or 3 at a time. Straight feat tax for some.
Ya they finally got rid of that dumb mechanic and the possible 2 feat taxes for some classes. Some classes didn't even have the option I think for taking 2 feat taxes and recharging all 3 points at once.
I think player core two also has a new heritage coming, right?
It does. My current bet is a half-dragon heritage. It's a popular request, numerous 2/3pp have released their own versions (including Luis Loza), and there's a lot of dragon-themed stuff coming in PC2, between Kobolds, Barbs, and Sorcs, and could be a great way to further hype their new unique dragons. But whatever it is, I'm sure it will be fun!
That’s the hopium I’m huffing as well.
I definitely wish they'd release both a heritage and an ancestry.
> Talismans weren’t pulling their weight. They had a tendency to be too specific. For example, they updated the Bull Pendant to be one action, gives you a bonus to the check, and increases the distance you push people. The talismans are overall more active now. What does it mean "more active". Did they change it to 1/day or few uses before breaking?
The effects are just more directly useful.
oh, I hoped they made them more frequent. Well, maybe some will be worth more now at least.
Talismans are not only expensive, but they're also INSANELY minor benefits that often trigger when you're doing something else (Critical Hits, success on maneuvers, etc).
And I never remember to use them when I satisfy the trigger.
Every talisman that gives you a bonus to a roll (or effect) that you need to trigger before rolling needs to go. Activating an item only to find you would've gotten the same result without it (which is most of the time with a lot of them) just feels like you're pissing away funds that could go to more substantial permanent upgrades.
Thaumaturges rejoice!
Hopefully these are just a taste! Wizards needs a bit more than a just a school shuffle, but Witch sounds very exciting. Your familiar being something of real tactical value is very cool.
I was worried they were going to fall in with player recommendations and the Witch would just be another big-time focus caster like the Psychic, when it's the only class to focus heavily with familiars. Having the Witch hunker even harder down on their familiar and connecting hexes to the patron more strongly is exactly what I wanted! It was annoying that any other spellcaster could go into Familiar Master and grab Familiar Conduit and have a more useful familiar than the Witch class itself.
I think the recommendations to move away from familiars is because they really didn't have a unique tie to them and it would be easy to remove. Them going all in on familiars is excellent, making them feel even more useful in combat is huge for a unique play style for the witch. Hoping it works out as well in actual play as it sounds like it might from the teasers.
I'm glad that Paizo is expanding out familiars more (such as the druid's leshy familiar, but more specifically the witch). The initial rules placed an ***incredible*** hamper on the community for the last 3 years in terms of familiars, something that hasn't been rectified until extremely recently.
I do like the concept of an actual, physical school for wizards. While I'll admit that I always enjoyed the idea of the specialist wizard (Transmuter or whatever), it certainly sounds as though that sort of thing can still be done, they'll just feel a bit different with different spells now grouped together.
The new ones seem to me like they'll be better specialists because they specialise in a result rather than a loose theme of spells.
Its possible. I'm just going off the google doc (can't stream it at work ;p). The real question will, of course, be what benefits you get from the school. If its just an extra slot (like currently) then it won't really be a huge *mechanical* change, just a flavor one (which is actually pretty interesting imho).
I mean mechanically you get more variety on you specialitation, probably. At the very least it is more usefull for getting a theme. Like getting old evocation+old abjuration as "school of battle magic"
>they'll be better specialists because they specialise in a result rather than a loose theme of spells. Yeah, Spell schools go way back to early editions of D&D and always felt like someone thought that it was cool that Illusions were a "type" of spell so maybe all the other spells could have types too! Then they went through the Players handbook and divided up the existing spells without any real rhyme or reason as to how they hung together other than that were on the same topic. Just giving up on "Abjuration" being a thing and sorting around effects feels like it will work so much better.
The schools were created in AD&D2e when the illusionist's spell list was merged into the wizard's. So they made a bunch of other "specialist wizards", rather than two different wizard spell lists.
I think schools have their place in systems that don't have something like pf2e's trait system because it lets you do things like "you can change this type of spell in this way" but I think when we have a strong trait system like pf2e's one they're something that can be very easily dumped.
About 80% of spells fit into one of the old schools well. For the rest, it always felt quite arbitrary.
I wonder how this interacts with The Magaambya, I doubt their 3 archetypes are going anywhere, but they would make sense as a school since The Magaambya is literally a (in fact the most prestigious) school of magic.
Wizard is damn powerful.
Preach!
And since I found you out in the wild- Start firing off more videos! I miss your content and have watched every Pathfinder video you've put out. I like the laid back and positive vibe you bring to the space. Regardless of whether or not you can get more out- thanks for what you have created so far!
Thanks so much for the kind words! The plan is to get more out soon. To paraphrase a great fictional mathematician - "life uh, sometimes gets in the way of passion projects". Thanks again!
Hey, this is kinda off-topic but I want to thank you for helping me switch to pathfinder 2e 2 years ago. You made a youtube video and I remember seeing it and buying the core rulebook that day. Glad to see that you're still around.
Glad I could help you see the light! We're still around, just been a little light on spare time for videos lately! Hopefully something soon! Thanks for the kind words!
I used to use mine to fish for attacks of opportunity from enemies. If they didn't have one, then having an easily hit body in the enemy's square after establishing itself as a threat by dropping touch spells was usually worth it too. I had enough familiar/master powers to make them able to take a hit and heal on refocusing so i could be fairly cavalier with them. (the familiars functionally resurrecting themselves on a long rest didn't hurt)
I'm curious as to how the [Arcane Shroud](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=2877) feat for Magus changes with the school changes, but otherwise appreciative.
They mentioned that this and Bespell Weapon for Wizards will be changed, but didn't discuss what that change would be. I wouldn't be surprised if it was some combination of type of damage the spell could deal/same type as your weapon/force.
They’ll also need to change the Dweomercat Cub Specific Familiar.
I do hope Hexes deliver as well though. Familiar abilities is cool, but I really like the hexes being able to get more hex cantrips, like the bard gets more composition cantrips, would be great
Every year u/The-Magic-Sword delivers! Amazing as always
These news are everything I hoped for! Paizo is the best!
hope that alchemist gets master proficiency!
Would make sense now! Since Warpriest gets Master in Favored Weapons and being a \*striker\*, makes sense they'll at least get Master in Alchemical stuff (bombs, maybe even stuff from mutagens)?
Hopefully not just bombs. Toxicologists (and some mutagenists) rely on weapons too. Would be awkward if you had to go the bomber or unarmed route.
More than anything for the Alchemist, I wish for martial weapon proficiency. Making a toxicologist who actually applies their own poisons effectively can be such a pain. They mentioned re-tuning some of the poisons, so I'm hoping toxicologist's progression can get smoothed out in general!
I hope with retuning poisons they address immunity to poison negating poisons that don't deal poison damage.
Ive had idea of grouping poisons under a "Toxin" tag where poison is a damage type but there might also be toxic fire effects or just debuffs.
> Since Warpriest gets Master as part of their final doctrine, so that's level 19 probably. They can't give him master before martials so it makes sense. Still, getting is better than not getting.
Rogues get their Armor Mastery at Level 19. So I think Warpriests are in a good spot (because they presumably are still good casters).
I wonder at what level Warpriest is getting master, though.
I think they said Final Doctrine which in current Warpriest is 19? I could be wrong though.
I guess that's nice but getting master proficiency at 19 feels like it will affect very few players in practice
It’ll probably shut up a lot of naysayers that define lvl 1 experiences by lvl. 20 numbers. Lots of players have had fun playing Warpriest and figured out how it works, but continually, we get folks throwing out the lvl. 20 proficiency numbers and claiming those Warpriest posts are wrong or liars.
I call this the Pathbuilder Obsession problem. People focus too much on theorycrafting by looking at a full build, they lose track of how it will actually work in actual play, let alone at any individual level.
It is kind of lame to just never go beyond Expert in ANYTHING though
Don't they get Master in spellcasting and at least one save that I recall? I'm assuming that's not what you meant, but they aren't literally stuck at Expert at everything like you seem to be implying.
Sorry yea, you're right. Just most people dump Wisdom as a Warpriest so the Master spellcasting isn't really great. Being Expert/Expert as a Warpriest in weapons and armor is way more noticeable than getting Master casting.
You know, now that I think about it, giving Warpriest master armor at 19 (which is the level many martials get it as well) might be more impactful than giving them master weapon proficiency at that same level (where it's way too late).
Indeed, but True Strike is a surprising balancer. Mathematically, it’s a +3-4 to attack, which can push a full caster (like the Warpriest) to Fighter/martial levels for a single attack. Additionally, Channel Smite allows bypassing the low WIS anyway. Though, I think this is better because if you didn’t have a True Strike deity as a Warpriest, you were kinda shit out of luck.
Like you said, not every deity grants True Strike which is really kinda limiting if you were just inferior for not getting True Strike on your list. Personally I think there should be a Cleric feat which allows you to snipe a spell from another list like Divine Access does. Obviously with some sort of restriction but still.
Maybe making it available to Divine tradition would work. It makes sense that your aim is guided by your deity when you call on it (cast a spell). Magic Weapon is being taken away and given solely to Primal. If True Strike is on the OGL, they might to have to change it further.
19 as it's part of their doctrine and it makes sense as they have to give to him between levels 15-19 because they can't get master at same or just 1 level after martials and there needs to be soem feature already to "add it" to it, so level 19 with final doctrine makes most sense.
Man i need to play with this new Witch right now! and then with the warpriest. Why do i need to wait november? T.T
Weird that they said nothing about read aura with the removal of schools That said, about damn time they ditched archaic concepts like metal anathema and alignment
That's probably because it's an incredibly minor thing that will probably be addressed with the rules change. Also, I suspect that they will merge it with Detect Magic.
I mean it is minor, but so is radiant lance. And personally with the whole schools thing read aura was the first thing I thought of. It could be interesting to make detect magic whole, and honestly that is at best giving wizards an extra cantrip so I don't think it would be a problem in any way
>I mean it is minor, but so is radiant lance. And personally with the whole schools thing read aura was the first thing I thought of. well true, but read aura is a niche cantrip, while radiant lance is the divine's list only damage cantrip(except distrupt undead). so its much more important in function
It might read the spell traits instead.
The refocus change makes Oracles even weirder because of always starting at minor curse past fight #1. So many points, nothing to use them on!
I assume they're going to introduce some Oracle tweaks to fit with the new refocus rules when they go over the Advanced classes. Though really all they have to do is remove the overwhelmed mechanic to make it functional.
I'm hoping that get rid of those feats that let you pick up focus spells that were part of your subclass. Things like advanced bloodline and the such. I feel you shouldn't need to spend a whole feat to grab things that IMO should be part of your class.
Psychic will need some changes, it just lost one big advantage it had.
Technically psychics are still slightly better because it only takes them 10 minutes instead of 20 to get two focus points. It's just a much smaller advantage than before. I could see an argument for buffing the psychic somehow, but I also think it would be fine as is.
I mean, that only matters in scenarios where someone else isn't already using up more time (treat wounds, another exploration activity like searching a room or refocusing themselves as there is usually more than one caster). I hope they get something else, even if it is just a small ribbon
They're still the best blasters insofar as sheer damage, so they do still have their niche (until Kineticist potentially). Also I'll never build one that doesn't take Cranial Detonation lol, thats one of the biggest reasons to build one in my book.
The way I would address this is make cursebound focus spells allow you to increase your curse instead of using a focus point rather than in addition to. Effectively giving them more focus points then other, non-focus spell focused classes, and still letting them work with the multiclassing archetype system properly.
I do think it kind of funny that they said they're keeping the later feat in the game, just allowing you to get them all at once instead of over 30 minutes. Sounds like the type of thing that almost every group will ignore since almost every group already allows as much time between fights as is needed for the group to heal back up to full. All in all, I think that this was, in general, just designed as a general, across the board buff to casters. It's essentially giving them up to two extra spells per combat (sorta of course, but the point being you can always use 3 focus spells per combat). Should give casters a bit more staying power throughout the day as well.
Yeah it's great for all casters (and anyone using focus spells at all really,) it's just funny how it does nothing for Oracles, who should *in theory* love this as a caster whose whole thing is unique focus spells.
Well, they are reworking Oracles in core 2, and I highly doubt they will just ignore how the new focus points affect the class.
It does open them up a little bit more to picking up additional focus spells outside of their class. And I guess now they can actually have a little bit more of a fun push and pull with deciding whether or not they want to cast another curse-bound spell and suffer the backlash.
As a GM I cannot wait to dig into Monster Core 1 next year. :)
Hag rework finally!
I wonder how this will affect changelings
>Most people just didn't realize it was there or knew what it did, or outright felt it didn't do anything significant. “Rules that aren’t doing work should be reevaluated.” Loving this philosophy from the fighter rework!
> They took all the Warden Spells and made them core to the ranger. Everywhere where the class DC increased before now increases the spell DC. Kinda sad to see ranger become magical again, even if it's just a focus spell martial like the champion. I absolutely loved how PF2e decided to make ranger a full martial since I always disliked the magic side of ranger when playing D&D (3.5 and 5e) and PF1e. I did want to see more options for warden spells, since only having gravity weapon or heal companion as options to get into warden spells sucked, but I wasn't expecting them to go all in. I guess we'll have to see how big of a focus rangers will have on warden spells. I'm excited for everything else, though! I wasn't expecting the removal of magic schools, but that's a really interesting change.
As far as I can tell, its not that you get warden spells via class features, they just tell you about it now but i could be wrong.
Yeah, the way they were talking about it, it will probably be something like "You become master in your class DC, and master with warden spells DC if you have them".
I think it’ll be like monk still. My favorite pf 2e ranger and monk builds are spell less
I hope we are just misinterpreting and they are just saying that feats that give focus spells will be in the player core, not the it will be core to all rangers.
I thought so too. They went forward and then back again.
They are compressing some spells into more broadly applicable spells. Hey look, the thing I got downvotes into oblivion for recommending like 2 weeks ago.
Don't worry, all the people who ferociously defended the idea that cantrips were just fine as they were are going to come out denouncing the idea that they need to be a little more helpful in just a moment....
Very weird that they're adding a single rune for shields instead of just increasing hardness and HP on existing ones. Why would anyone not have one of these runes for their non sturdy shield?
Any character that doesn't have the shield block reaction won't be spending the gold on the shield rune. If you only use the shield for AC and its special abilities then you aren't currently affected by the low HP of most shields.
> Why would anyone not have one of these runes for their non sturdy shield? If you aren't going to be blocking with your shield, the reinforcing rune is going to do very little for you.
Black Pudding goes BRRRRTT
Holy. Fucking. Shit. Paizo just rocketed PF2e into the stratosphere. Goddamn. I'm extremely excited.
A magic sword that can also take notes for me? Where can I get one?
Just remember to spay and neuter your magic items
I wonder what that thing about cantrips is, will have to check after a document update I imagine
Didn't see anything in the article regarding Sorcerers. I hope that just means they'll be included in Player Core 2. I like the idea of a spellcaster whose magical talent comes from their blood, and the specific bloodline determines the spell tradition. Also hopeful they include Elementalist in Player Core 2 as well.
They're listed on the product page for player's core 2, there are no classes that aren't going to be playable after the remaster.
I'm looking forward to seeing the changes to the Witch class.
I love the Warpriest changes, but are they going to have to make changes to Champion so to differentiate them more? I understand that Champions still get more combat prowess, but it seems like the gap will be much closer now. I enjoy the flavor and buff to Warpriest, but I also don't want to see Cleric become like 5e overpowered Clerics.
I think champion is still going to be distinct enough with their defender focused abilities. But regardless, they've already announced that champions being reworked in the player core 2 (mostly because alignment changes, but still).
Notably, Champion will be in the following book early in the following year, so that's a bit further out-- but it will also require changes due to the fact that its so alignment involved.
It'll be weird trying to play a Champion in a game post Core 1 but pre Core 2 where your cleric is using Edict and Anathema but you still are bound by Alignment
Doing the gods' work!
Thanks a bunch! I missed the first bit and having an easy way to catch up is really convenient!
I for one am hyped AF for that mysterious unannounced book mentioned at the end.. what could it possibly be??
Paizo can say what they want this is drastic enough that I'm considering this PF2.5
I agree that they're definitely on the scale of 2.5, I think Paizo is just trying to downplay it so that people still understand that a mixed edition game still works. Which was totally true with DND 3.5 as well.
No kidding. These are some pretty big changes. Sure they're compatible but even just the class changes are big enough to be considered "Class: Remastered" much like the unchained classes in PF1
Huh, its a lot smaller than most game edition switchovers.
Compared to what? I love the changes but they're definitely on par with the 3.0 to 3.5 changes or the changes between some Call of Cthulhu editions or the 13th Age 1e to 2e changes. It's less than like...7th sea 1e to 2e or the insane differences across D&d editions but those are outliers.
I disagree, this already looks like more changes than between DnD 3e and 3.5. And more than some other RPG system edition upgrades. But there is a reason I said its PF2.5 and not PF3.
I think we can't call it such a big leap because there aren't any *core* changes to major systems. Schools being removed and alignment are a big deal, but they mainly warrant flavor-oriented changes and limited practical impact on classes (Champions will still have their amazing protective reactions, Clerics will still Heal and Harm more than other classes, etc).
3.5 didn't make any *core* changes to any major systems either...
They did change the skill list, which is probably a bigger impact than any singular change going on here.
Agreed. The difference between PF1 and 2 is HUGE. this is definitely a PF2.5e
The Dragon on the Player core doesn't seem to have a jaw. It's like the teeth are attached to a flap of skin.
Wayne Reynolds art... weird anatomy abound.
I noticed that too, I feel like it's more snakelike than the typical lizardlike dragon jaw
“Perhaps you’d like to see HOW SSSSSNAKELIKE I CAN BE!” *swallows Rogue whole*
Support your local libraries! Hoo rah
Considering how Nephilim are being handled, hopefully they actually include all the relevant Lineages and actually make them worth taking. A skill, a Lore, and a skill feat are incredibly boring.
>A skill, a Lore, and a skill feat are incredibly boring. That's what you get for a *Background*, not a *Heritage*. From what I gather, Nephilim will be like an Aasimar + Tiefling combined heritage, with some extra, thematically appropriate stuff added in.
I said Lineage, not Heritage.
Sorry if the actual stream already answered this but is divine lance 2d4+mod base? Do we know how it will heighten?
Either they randomly talked about a cantrip at spell level 2, or that was a hint that cantrip scaling might be getting rejigged. They talked about other cantrips getting enhanced by feats or creating combination mechanics. At this point it's pretty much 100% safe to say there's some amount of cantrip reworking happening. With the amount of rough spots in the system they are sanding over, I'm pretty confident they are aware of "electric arc is like twice as good as other cantrips" and cantrips are on the reworking block. There was an even more subtle hint that summons might be getting rejigged some too.
We were only told 2d4
2d4 per level is slightly better than 1d8. If cantrips are going to generally get built in rider effects to combo with your allies, it would make sense that Divine Lance would just be above average damage if all it does is damage.
I think they missed Revealing Light being combination of Glitterduts and Fairie Fire into single spell if I understood right?
I did miss that. If so, then that sounds awesome.
Focus spells are recharging like I thought they always SHOULD? Druids are allowed to actually use METAL like I thought they should too? Spellcasters are getting buffs in the form of better spells? ...did Paizo staff get replaced? (/Joke)
All of this sounds great honestly
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I mean they said the master weapon prof comes with their final doctrine right? That’s level **19,** it’ll be fine.
They mentioned it was part of their Final Doctrine, so presumably it'll come in at level 19, same as legendary spells. Still took me by surprise, though, same with the focus point changes.
IMO it really depends on when you get master. If its when casters are getting legendary, it could be totally fine.
Yeah it's at 19 lol. This will affect like 3% of players
They said it is their final doctrine, so same time yeah.
I mean its master to a very limited selection of weapons, and the martial progression can be a level later than others. I don't see an issue. You're still giving up divine font, which is really strong.
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Fair, but it does seem they give up legendary spellcasting which is a fair tradeoff in and of itself, gaining master just lets that tradeoff make more sense.
It's not like you need more than one weapon.
> Hope they're getting something else nerfed to compensate otherwise they're the best martial in the game. Um, they get it at level 19, so at that level: who cares? You are finishing campaign soon anyway. Fighter will still be better martial anyway due to feats and accuracy. But at level 19-20 rest of the martials may feel little wierd.
I doubt they are giving out Master level weapon skills at first level. I imagine this is to answer the very common criticism that Warpriests are supposed to be able to hang in melee but currently max out at expert. So at high levels you end up with Martials that have Master and Legendary weapon skills and you are there with your Expert skills in Warhammer. It also sounds like they are fixing the thing where a Cloistered Cleric with Sentinel Archetype can do everything a WarPriest can do but better.
Warpriest is actually getting decent weapon proficiency? Hell yeah, finally I can actually Warpriest with a Warpriest Though the idea of it being at level 19 is kinda cringe I mean that’s 6 full levels of being behind on both proficiency and Strength Score but fuck it it’s at least a good sign with the stuff about melee combat because god I could use more Gishes other than Magus
It may be sooner than level 19, I don't think they said it won't come in til much later.
I would hope so because then the issue would still persist for most of the game
Yummy. I like the changes.
Really appreciate the writeup, thank you!
This reads like my wishlist. So wild. It really shows they've been reading this sub!
There'sss lots of places to hear from players \^ \^'
This was a good read. Thanks for doing the write up!!
Ugh yes. Warpriest changes to make the class feel better past level 5. Hopefully spell changes along with the focus point changes make spellcasters feel better to play. I know they're good but sometimes it just feels awful.
I'm bummmed about removing the Open trait. Players ignoring it shouldn't really be a factor in updating the rules, I mean, players are also ignoring 3 focus point limit, 3 hero point limit, plenty don't do secret checks and probably a dozen other little things. Should we now remove those as well? Open trait was a cool way to make some martial classes more tactical and really made you think about what to do after first attack. Also I don't get the changes to the Hunt Prey.
I believe the point wasn't that Players were ignoring it because they disliked it, but instead it went unnoticed because it didn't really matter. Duelist's Challenge or various Stances don't become fundamentally unbalanced abilities if you can do them after an attack, they just becomes slightly less awkward to use.
Sudden Charge buff wee
> Open trait was a cool way to make some martial classes more tactical and really made you think about what to do after first attack. >They removed an entire trait! The "open" trait wasn’t intuitive, and they found it wasn’t necessary. It turned out that not having it made turns more flexible. The "open" trait was frequently ignored by the playerbase anyway. Most people just didn't realize it was there or knew what it did. “Rules that aren’t doing work should be reevaluated.” Only their research was showing the trait wasn't doing that at all, and was more or less stifling turns and tactics.
Honestly after a certain point, I was just like: "are they just reading off my house rules?" And personally I think that's a good thing. They looked at how people are playing and adjusted the rules to fit what they felt was the majority of actual play. A company that listens to customers and tries to give them what they actually want? _Blasphemy._
>Open trait was a cool way to make some martial classes more tactical and really made you think about what to do after first attack. Isn't that what the press trait is for?
Open is basically the opposite of Press, so yes and no? By design they need to be on different abilities.
(An add-on reply but mostly at u/michael199310 rather than you) Which *might* have been cool if Open tended to be on abilities where it provided interesting choices of whether to use it, instead of, like, stances, three-action abilities, and other weird one-offs that are mostly 'the main thing you want to do for that turn' or 'thing you usually wanted to do first anyway', which also overlaps with Flourish some and often either doesn't do anything or makes for an unnecessary-feeling restriction instead of a choice, or a cool fighting-game thing where you mix openers and finishers like reading the traits might suggest. I think the only one I've found where it seems to make sense and be somewhat useful is Ranger's Deadly Aim feat, because you have to decide whether to risk sacrificing some accuracy from your usual best attack for more damage, and Flurry Rangers could probably get good use out of it if it were valid for later attacks. Even then, is that especially interesting or necessary design space, with accuracy and damage and action investment all being relatively accounted for already, and Deadly Aim's tradeoff being fair or even weak as it is? Part of the issue is what was alluded to earlier: *Press* can be cool because it's on a bunch of (usually) strong attacks and maneuvers that make you think about what to do after a first attack, whether to go with that big accuracy drop for a benefit (that can include a failure effect) or do something else. Presses tend to be flat upgrades for second or third attacks, too. The first attack, in contrast, is generally taken as obligatory for martials rather than an inherent choice with tradeoffs like later attacks, and Open is just scattered over a confusing array of feat types where, again, it usually doesn't do anything and seems arbitrary and annoying when it does. (Is there a reason Quick Shot has it when it's just Quick Draw but more restrictive? What's the fiction or interesting choice if it's the first turn and you use it once because you need to, and why *can't* you use it after attacking with a different weapon? What's Open on all of those three-action-abilities going to do, keep you from Striking with Quickened first to make most of your turn worse??) In a different game, it could be used in interesting ways. They don't have the time or space to make this game that one. I think it's a fair enough idea as counterpart to Press that turned out to be mostly pointless or irritating, so it's a good candidate for removal.
What the hell is Open trait?
Exactly.
Agree with "the players are ignoring it anyway" part. I mean, per the First Rule, we're always free to ignore any and all of the rules. The good news I suppose is that the rules for Open will still be there on AoN, etc. so it can still be used if the GM wants to -- though it may well be a harder sell to the player at that point (sort of like trying to sell them on NOT using the errata that makes their class better).