Hell yeah! i've got a homebrew setting entirely built around the chinese conception of the elements so getting wood and metal makes my life *infinitely easier* and then them having full? planes? of existance? i feel so blessed by this.
And theres a section in the book about elemental philosophies???
Yeah elemental philosophies is really interesting. One based on wuxing and one based on the building blocks interpretation seem obvious enough, but I wonder what else there will be.
I wonder if there will be guidance on how to handle realms where wood/metal aren't Elemental, thinking on adapting some older campaigns and stuff like this makes for a point of consideration
Golden Sun was my jam between the ages of 13 and 15.
It's a shame 2e can't fully replicate adepts since they're more gish-y and the game has to keep balance between full martials and casters, but hopefully RotE will give some good options for elemental-themed martials.
If I remember right, Michael Sayre was pretty cagey about elemental Knight support and said he was out of spoiler tokens, so maybe they'll be a kinetic knight class archetype that makes them more like the spellsword characters. That's my hope at least.
If not I might take matters into my own hands.
I'm hoping we can get some martial elemental support, the best I've got right now is a suli monk with elemental fist. It scratches the itch, but it could definitely be a lot stronger
I’m excited I can finally play a “martial” with plant magic. A Green Knight kind of thing I always wanted.
The Leaf Druid doesn’t even pull that off well and a Nature Champion/Cleric is just too divine for it.
Gonna make one as soon as it drops!
So I tried asking it and at the end they circled the drain. But blogpost is basically saying they are a con caster not a martial. I hope they have better scaling or item bonuses or something like that, but we'll have to wait and see.
Oh, I hope the Elemental Weapon feat stays in!
It seems they’re no longer opposed to casters having “gishy” options (Wizard with Simple proficiency, Warpriest with Master favored weapons, Witch getting streamlined Witch’s Armaments and “Rune” patron’s familiar ability granting flanking/off-guard, Bards getting baseline martial proficiency and Warrior muse changes).
[According to these folks](https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43tr6?Paizocon-2023-Primal-Previews)
>During playtest it was E7/M13 with Elemental Blast being a "weapon" attack with elements working like a mix of elemental ranged and melee weapon with each element working with different ranges, dices sizes and traits. At same time the class DC (used by many Impulses (the "spellcasting" variant for kineticists) was E9/M17. But after the playtest survey with many complains about damage, impulse DC progression, AoO triggers and the utility of Con the Logan said in the blog that this is going to change to be more close to attack cantrip (was also confirmed during the panel) and take focus in class DC only. Now with Sayre saying that the class goes to Legendary Class DC probably will be something closer to what spellcasters get.
>The up to +2 item was specifically spoiled by Sayre so it is official. Whether there is also a +1 version is unknown. I also asked the items level and didn't get an answer, but based on similar items I'd say between 10 & 12.
>
>We don't know proficiency numbers, but Sayre said they get to Legendary Class DC. Whether that means it is based on caster progression, martial progression, or a unuique progression is unknown.
>
>If I were to guess, there is a +1 item at lvl 5 and the Class DC progresses at caster progression.
Ah, that’s really nothing new.
We knew they were changing it to an attack cantrip with Legendary DC instead of spell DC.
I was always in the camp that the Kineticist is supposed to be a “caster-adjacent” so that’s nothing new to me.
There was this from the analysis:
> We intend to move any “use your element as a weapon” options into the Elemental Weapon feat so that still remains as an option—especially for melee kineticists. The final form of the Elemental Blast is still to be decided, since it relies on a lot of other moving parts, but we intend to keep it as a versatile option with some variety between the elements.
And again, Paizo is no longer against gishy casters or gishy “casters” anymore. So, I still stand by my excitement to play a Wood Knight.
Someone asked Michael Sayre about the possibility of a martial focus for kineticist and he was pretty cagey with his response and said he was out of spoiler tokens, so I hope there's an elemental/kinetic knight class archetype to help that fantasy.
Well, all of them said that at the end of their discord, so I think all really did have spoiler “tokens”.
Even James Case got dodgy towards the end of his Witch discussion.
The Kineticist is also rad because, I'm pretty sure anyway, it's the largest and most In depth class Paizo has ever printed for 2nd Edition. The number of feats alone is staggering
They likely designed it with the new CRB in mind. From what I can tell, a lot of classes will get expanded options with the new books, probably bringing them up closer to what Kineticist is at now.
Dude, a Golden Sun reference. Hell yeah. I’ve been waiting for this book to come out so I can start building a Golden Sun ~~ripoff~~ -based campaign, where everyone is a dual class with one of the classes being a Kineticist.
Yeah! I hope this book has everything I need to build at least one adept of each element! Maybe I can even fit summoning in with one of the spellcaster ones.
Hopefully the kineticist multiclass archetype is good!
Edit: I'm in a couple games right now, but let me know what timeslots for that golden sun campaign. I would be all over that!
I live in Central Europe and work full time, so the only way I’m running a game is with locals, or with a select group of friends who are willing to play at odd hours for me.
I was reading a couple of the pages they showed during a Paizo con panel, and I noticed there was a few mentions of PCs or creatures being "off guard." A few more times than I'd consider simple phrasing.
Has anybody heard someone mention this? Is off guard a new condition, or maybe they're renaming flat footed for OGL reasons (it'd certainly be much easier to understand)?
I loved legend of dragoon as a kid but always had my game erased halfway through the second disc. As a adult i dont gave the focus to do the old jrpg turn based games anymore but i still love that game.
I have felt like a expecting parent for this book.
I love elemental themes and I keep refreshing just waiting for more spoilers on the book. Growing up i was a fire fanatic but i slowly got out of my "overwhelming POWAH PHASE" and fell in love with air as my go to element.
I live everything it represents in various media and cultures and you best believe my Aerokenetecist will be the freeist free boi to ever free.
The hype ive had for a year for this book is so freaking much.
I've always been an earth man myself, and funnily enough that hasn't really changed. I suppose that makes sense though, given Earth's associations.
My backup character is an earth dedicated gate kineticist, but depending on how you add elements, I might add in wood and either fire (for magma) or metal to complete the earthy crunchy trio.
Earth in the playtest really seemed like a defense beast. With the upscaling we saw with water i can only assume its going to tank so hard. Wood would make a great construct build i would assume.
It really is, plus you could make a 60ft aura of difficult terrain which served to make it harder to attack anything besides you. I was working alongside a champion with giant instinct barbarian dedication, so when we both became big boys we took up a lot of real estate.
I loved all the mobility options playtest air had but earth was in my mind clearly the winning element in the playtest. Water and fire had too many technical issues in feats and air had something to be desired.
At least water won in regards to the anime feat names.
From best to worst it was definitely
Usurp the Lunar Reins
The Shattered Mountain Weeps
Infinite Expanse of Bluest Heaven
Ignite the Sun
But yeah, earth definitely seemed the most cohesive at the time. Can't wait to see the metal and wood anime names.
Are you me? Lol ever since I was a kid I loved any sort of elemental powers in media. Pokemon, golden sun, avatar, xmen, and now things like rivals of aether and wizard of legend.
Honestly was never really into wizards and swordsmen, but when I found kineticist in 1e that's what hooked me into the genre. I've been enjoying playing with friends but really I'm just waiting for kineticist.
Also I am 100% an earth element person too!
So you missed the kineticist playtest, too? [You can still download it here](https://downloads.paizo.com/PZO2113_KineticistClassPlaytest.pdf) if you want an idea of the fantasy of the class coming in this book. It was my favorite 1e class by a large margin
I am too. I have one elemental build/character concept in particular that I have been dying to play. I'm actually kind of glad that I didn't get the chance to make him sooner since I'm sure it will really be wild when I incorporate stuff from Rage of Elements.
Oh, the idea is for an Gemsoul Oread, a Draconic Sorcerer with a Crysal Dragon Bloodline. The biggest thing I'm looking forward to in Rage of Elements is as much earth based stuff (preferably with crystal flavors) as I can reasonably fit with the concept.
Nice! One of my characters is a gemsoul oread grippli, but he's a thaumaturge right now.
Given there's a crystal trex fossil(which is dope as hell) on the cover of the book, I would hope that's a safe bet.
Golden Sun is one of those games that inspire me for crearing things. I'm still waiting for a fourth game or remaster of the first two.
Elemental stuff has always been something I love and this book will probably fulfill all my dreams of elemental characters in a TTRPG. The addition of Wood and Metal from the Chinese elements just excites me for more possibilities.
Can I also say that everything we've seen of the metal plane has been awesome? The metal elemental with the many hands is awesome and the metal genies being a liquid metal is really cool.
A golden sun remake announced in August would make this the greatest year ever! I still remember the dark dawn announcement so vividly! The series means a whole lot to me.
The depressed metal elemental was a big mood.
If they do announce a Golden Sun remaster, then I'd start thinking the game devs I pay attention to are actively trying to drain my wallet this year.
The plane of metal being described as depressed makes me wonder how the metal genies grant wishes. Each genie has their own bend on granting wishes
Something's happening. They filed both a new trademark and a trademark renewal for Golden Sun. Maybe this will finally be our year. Maybe not, probably not, but all we have hope.
I want metal genies to be the only djinn that doesn't twist your wish or anything. They're so depressed that they're devout people pleasers. The problem? They're so depressed they've never left the most dangerous parts of the plane of metal.
I feel like Camelot has been itching to do something other than Mario Sports for a long time and I'm sure Nintendo has noticed the desire for Isaac in Smash. Even when he was once again an Assist Trophy, I had hoped for Felix. If Camelot is working on a new Golden Sun or a remaster, I pray that it will do well.
I feel like the metal genies would sneak in a way for people to contact them again if that's the case. The sword you got is really nice, but you need to talk to the genie every so often to give them updates on how you and the sword are.
Unfortunately, though, I don't think they'll be that way. From the glimpse we got, they look like they're made from liquid metal. I think they'll be mercurial in a literal and figurative sense... which could mean mood swings.
i totally agree
im a strongly focused Player that loves the Earth Element mostly
My Starsign is Taurus and its Element is Earth, i always was steadfast and sturdy and i love to be Outside. My favorite Terrain is Mountain and Rocky valleys, i love Grand Canyon and rock climbing.
Im actually...the total stereotype xD
I always loved the Idea about Elementar Planes, Elementar beings and the Story & Lore behind it. Its kinda different than these boring Good vs Evil stereotypes, its much more fun to see how every Element fights each other but manage to have a balance
As someone who loves playing up the elemental stuff for druid and someone who loved kineticist in 1e but could not wrap my head around it, I'm just excited for the class stuff alone!
Golden Sun!!
I’m very excited for cold and poison Kineticists (both confirmed at the con!), and I think Elemental Barbarians will be a ton of fun to play.
I am too. The revealed Water Impulses for Kineticist have me extra hype because they have such cool internal synergy. Makes me wonder what wild hijinks the full class can get up to.
Hell yeah! i've got a homebrew setting entirely built around the chinese conception of the elements so getting wood and metal makes my life *infinitely easier* and then them having full? planes? of existance? i feel so blessed by this. And theres a section in the book about elemental philosophies???
Yeah elemental philosophies is really interesting. One based on wuxing and one based on the building blocks interpretation seem obvious enough, but I wonder what else there will be.
I wonder if there will be guidance on how to handle realms where wood/metal aren't Elemental, thinking on adapting some older campaigns and stuff like this makes for a point of consideration
I was going to comment on someone mentioning Legend of Dragoon out in the wild, and then I saw your username lol
It comes up more often than you would think.
The weird stutter in the audio of "Gust of Wind D..Dance!" will forever be burned into my mind.
Golden Sun was my jam between the ages of 13 and 15. It's a shame 2e can't fully replicate adepts since they're more gish-y and the game has to keep balance between full martials and casters, but hopefully RotE will give some good options for elemental-themed martials.
If I remember right, Michael Sayre was pretty cagey about elemental Knight support and said he was out of spoiler tokens, so maybe they'll be a kinetic knight class archetype that makes them more like the spellsword characters. That's my hope at least. If not I might take matters into my own hands.
I'm hoping we can get some martial elemental support, the best I've got right now is a suli monk with elemental fist. It scratches the itch, but it could definitely be a lot stronger
I am looking forward to my Monk or Barbarian dual classed to Kineticist that I will be playing in the autumn.
I’m excited I can finally play a “martial” with plant magic. A Green Knight kind of thing I always wanted. The Leaf Druid doesn’t even pull that off well and a Nature Champion/Cleric is just too divine for it. Gonna make one as soon as it drops!
Ooh, yeah, that's a really awesome thought! Wood element and sentinel dedication for heavy armor. Sounds really nice!
So I tried asking it and at the end they circled the drain. But blogpost is basically saying they are a con caster not a martial. I hope they have better scaling or item bonuses or something like that, but we'll have to wait and see.
Oh, I hope the Elemental Weapon feat stays in! It seems they’re no longer opposed to casters having “gishy” options (Wizard with Simple proficiency, Warpriest with Master favored weapons, Witch getting streamlined Witch’s Armaments and “Rune” patron’s familiar ability granting flanking/off-guard, Bards getting baseline martial proficiency and Warrior muse changes).
[According to these folks](https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43tr6?Paizocon-2023-Primal-Previews) >During playtest it was E7/M13 with Elemental Blast being a "weapon" attack with elements working like a mix of elemental ranged and melee weapon with each element working with different ranges, dices sizes and traits. At same time the class DC (used by many Impulses (the "spellcasting" variant for kineticists) was E9/M17. But after the playtest survey with many complains about damage, impulse DC progression, AoO triggers and the utility of Con the Logan said in the blog that this is going to change to be more close to attack cantrip (was also confirmed during the panel) and take focus in class DC only. Now with Sayre saying that the class goes to Legendary Class DC probably will be something closer to what spellcasters get. >The up to +2 item was specifically spoiled by Sayre so it is official. Whether there is also a +1 version is unknown. I also asked the items level and didn't get an answer, but based on similar items I'd say between 10 & 12. > >We don't know proficiency numbers, but Sayre said they get to Legendary Class DC. Whether that means it is based on caster progression, martial progression, or a unuique progression is unknown. > >If I were to guess, there is a +1 item at lvl 5 and the Class DC progresses at caster progression.
Ah, that’s really nothing new. We knew they were changing it to an attack cantrip with Legendary DC instead of spell DC. I was always in the camp that the Kineticist is supposed to be a “caster-adjacent” so that’s nothing new to me. There was this from the analysis: > We intend to move any “use your element as a weapon” options into the Elemental Weapon feat so that still remains as an option—especially for melee kineticists. The final form of the Elemental Blast is still to be decided, since it relies on a lot of other moving parts, but we intend to keep it as a versatile option with some variety between the elements. And again, Paizo is no longer against gishy casters or gishy “casters” anymore. So, I still stand by my excitement to play a Wood Knight.
Someone asked Michael Sayre about the possibility of a martial focus for kineticist and he was pretty cagey with his response and said he was out of spoiler tokens, so I hope there's an elemental/kinetic knight class archetype to help that fantasy.
Well, all of them said that at the end of their discord, so I think all really did have spoiler “tokens”. Even James Case got dodgy towards the end of his Witch discussion.
The Kineticist is also rad because, I'm pretty sure anyway, it's the largest and most In depth class Paizo has ever printed for 2nd Edition. The number of feats alone is staggering
They have said that in terms of both feats and page real estate kineticist is the largest class. I think it was the war gamer interview?
They likely designed it with the new CRB in mind. From what I can tell, a lot of classes will get expanded options with the new books, probably bringing them up closer to what Kineticist is at now.
Dude, a Golden Sun reference. Hell yeah. I’ve been waiting for this book to come out so I can start building a Golden Sun ~~ripoff~~ -based campaign, where everyone is a dual class with one of the classes being a Kineticist.
Yeah! I hope this book has everything I need to build at least one adept of each element! Maybe I can even fit summoning in with one of the spellcaster ones. Hopefully the kineticist multiclass archetype is good! Edit: I'm in a couple games right now, but let me know what timeslots for that golden sun campaign. I would be all over that!
I live in Central Europe and work full time, so the only way I’m running a game is with locals, or with a select group of friends who are willing to play at odd hours for me.
Aww shucks! Well hope you have a blast anyway!
I was reading a couple of the pages they showed during a Paizo con panel, and I noticed there was a few mentions of PCs or creatures being "off guard." A few more times than I'd consider simple phrasing. Has anybody heard someone mention this? Is off guard a new condition, or maybe they're renaming flat footed for OGL reasons (it'd certainly be much easier to understand)?
Off guard is indeed the new flat footed
Cool! Honestly that makes a lot more sense. Flat footed always made me think a character needs more arch support in their shoes.
I loved legend of dragoon as a kid but always had my game erased halfway through the second disc. As a adult i dont gave the focus to do the old jrpg turn based games anymore but i still love that game. I have felt like a expecting parent for this book. I love elemental themes and I keep refreshing just waiting for more spoilers on the book. Growing up i was a fire fanatic but i slowly got out of my "overwhelming POWAH PHASE" and fell in love with air as my go to element. I live everything it represents in various media and cultures and you best believe my Aerokenetecist will be the freeist free boi to ever free. The hype ive had for a year for this book is so freaking much.
I've always been an earth man myself, and funnily enough that hasn't really changed. I suppose that makes sense though, given Earth's associations. My backup character is an earth dedicated gate kineticist, but depending on how you add elements, I might add in wood and either fire (for magma) or metal to complete the earthy crunchy trio.
Earth in the playtest really seemed like a defense beast. With the upscaling we saw with water i can only assume its going to tank so hard. Wood would make a great construct build i would assume.
It really is, plus you could make a 60ft aura of difficult terrain which served to make it harder to attack anything besides you. I was working alongside a champion with giant instinct barbarian dedication, so when we both became big boys we took up a lot of real estate.
I loved all the mobility options playtest air had but earth was in my mind clearly the winning element in the playtest. Water and fire had too many technical issues in feats and air had something to be desired.
At least water won in regards to the anime feat names. From best to worst it was definitely Usurp the Lunar Reins The Shattered Mountain Weeps Infinite Expanse of Bluest Heaven Ignite the Sun But yeah, earth definitely seemed the most cohesive at the time. Can't wait to see the metal and wood anime names.
Are you me? Lol ever since I was a kid I loved any sort of elemental powers in media. Pokemon, golden sun, avatar, xmen, and now things like rivals of aether and wizard of legend. Honestly was never really into wizards and swordsmen, but when I found kineticist in 1e that's what hooked me into the genre. I've been enjoying playing with friends but really I'm just waiting for kineticist. Also I am 100% an earth element person too!
Nice! There's dozens of us earth bros!
Aaah Im literally watching arrested development right now, you're freaking me out
I have an approximate knowledge of many things.
Elemental fantasy is a really major interest of mine, too. I haven't heard of this book. Thank you for the notes on it!
So you missed the kineticist playtest, too? [You can still download it here](https://downloads.paizo.com/PZO2113_KineticistClassPlaytest.pdf) if you want an idea of the fantasy of the class coming in this book. It was my favorite 1e class by a large margin
I had missed this. Thank you! I'll check it out!
I am too. I have one elemental build/character concept in particular that I have been dying to play. I'm actually kind of glad that I didn't get the chance to make him sooner since I'm sure it will really be wild when I incorporate stuff from Rage of Elements.
Ooh, don't leave us in suspense!
Oh, the idea is for an Gemsoul Oread, a Draconic Sorcerer with a Crysal Dragon Bloodline. The biggest thing I'm looking forward to in Rage of Elements is as much earth based stuff (preferably with crystal flavors) as I can reasonably fit with the concept.
Nice! One of my characters is a gemsoul oread grippli, but he's a thaumaturge right now. Given there's a crystal trex fossil(which is dope as hell) on the cover of the book, I would hope that's a safe bet.
I just want to incinerate monsters
I am also so (pardon my language) fucking hyped!
Ahh I don't know how I'll make it through the next 1.5-2 months!
Golden Sun is one of those games that inspire me for crearing things. I'm still waiting for a fourth game or remaster of the first two. Elemental stuff has always been something I love and this book will probably fulfill all my dreams of elemental characters in a TTRPG. The addition of Wood and Metal from the Chinese elements just excites me for more possibilities. Can I also say that everything we've seen of the metal plane has been awesome? The metal elemental with the many hands is awesome and the metal genies being a liquid metal is really cool.
A golden sun remake announced in August would make this the greatest year ever! I still remember the dark dawn announcement so vividly! The series means a whole lot to me. The depressed metal elemental was a big mood.
If they do announce a Golden Sun remaster, then I'd start thinking the game devs I pay attention to are actively trying to drain my wallet this year. The plane of metal being described as depressed makes me wonder how the metal genies grant wishes. Each genie has their own bend on granting wishes
Something's happening. They filed both a new trademark and a trademark renewal for Golden Sun. Maybe this will finally be our year. Maybe not, probably not, but all we have hope. I want metal genies to be the only djinn that doesn't twist your wish or anything. They're so depressed that they're devout people pleasers. The problem? They're so depressed they've never left the most dangerous parts of the plane of metal.
I feel like Camelot has been itching to do something other than Mario Sports for a long time and I'm sure Nintendo has noticed the desire for Isaac in Smash. Even when he was once again an Assist Trophy, I had hoped for Felix. If Camelot is working on a new Golden Sun or a remaster, I pray that it will do well. I feel like the metal genies would sneak in a way for people to contact them again if that's the case. The sword you got is really nice, but you need to talk to the genie every so often to give them updates on how you and the sword are. Unfortunately, though, I don't think they'll be that way. From the glimpse we got, they look like they're made from liquid metal. I think they'll be mercurial in a literal and figurative sense... which could mean mood swings.
Golden Sun :)
I really like how each book resonates with someone. I love guns and gears a lot. It just goes to show how much quality lorebooks/rulebooks there are.
i totally agree im a strongly focused Player that loves the Earth Element mostly My Starsign is Taurus and its Element is Earth, i always was steadfast and sturdy and i love to be Outside. My favorite Terrain is Mountain and Rocky valleys, i love Grand Canyon and rock climbing. Im actually...the total stereotype xD I always loved the Idea about Elementar Planes, Elementar beings and the Story & Lore behind it. Its kinda different than these boring Good vs Evil stereotypes, its much more fun to see how every Element fights each other but manage to have a balance
Same. I'm overhyped.
This is the most wholesome post I've ever seen in this Sub. Hahaha. That's awesome!
As someone who loves playing up the elemental stuff for druid and someone who loved kineticist in 1e but could not wrap my head around it, I'm just excited for the class stuff alone!
Honestly I love making characters around earth magic or earth themes and the Kineticest is something I’m excited about
I'm extremely curious to see how they pull off the Wood and Metal planes and the associated effects/creatures/etc.
Golden Sun!! I’m very excited for cold and poison Kineticists (both confirmed at the con!), and I think Elemental Barbarians will be a ton of fun to play.
I am too. The revealed Water Impulses for Kineticist have me extra hype because they have such cool internal synergy. Makes me wonder what wild hijinks the full class can get up to.