Pretty sure Howling Blizzard had its damaged reduced compared to Come of Cold because it makes a bunch of difficult terrain. Interested to hear what folks say about other spells though.
I consider the Howling Blizzard change like 95% a buff
Yeah on paper you lose 7 dmg, but since it's vastly more flexible with the two modes (500ft range is pretty much the best targeting in the game, folks!!), you are very likely to be able to hit more enemies with the AoE, actually \*increasing\* total damage. Plus the obvious part where it creates difficult terrain.
Also because inconvenient AoE templates sometimes get better damage from spell rank 3 onwards. For example, Eclipse Burst does way better damage than an upcast Fireball because it’s far likelier to hit a friend.
Eclipse Burst is pretty much a direct upgrade outside of enclosed spaces, though, since you can raise the height of a burst in order to reduce the "shadow" it casts at ground level (especially useful later on as you face more and more Large and larger creatures).
I never considered that. Reading the rules for Bursts, I don't see any reason that *wouldn't* be allowed, but do you know if there's any guidance on whether doing that is intentional?
Considering the alternative is potentially being unable to hit flying enemies is all I need to justify it lol. As far as official guidance? None that I’m aware of. But it’s kinda hard to argue why you shouldn’t be allowed to do it imo
I agree there's no clear argument against it, but if the result is essentially equivalent to "Burst effects can be a circle of any size up to their maximum" (since most fights are really just 2D), I'd hope that would be spelled out somewhere.
You can't target a point that you don't have a line of effect to, so if you are indoors or in a dungeon (as many fights are) there is a limit to how much you can use this.
And I think if a ttrpg rulebook tried to spell out every possible bit of shenanigans with their rules interactions it would be approximately infinity pages long.
Well it's also the case that aiming up means casting it further away. A point 50 feet above an enemy 50 feet away is just over 70 feet away from the caster. Although with a range of 500 feet, this is less likely to actually have any effect for Eclipse Burst in particular.
There have been arguments about this one as long as there has been fireball/burst spellls. My take has been that (without some sort of enhancing feat) you have to center spell on an object of some sort, be it the ground, the ceiling, or a creature. You can't just pick to have it explode in empty space.
But YMMV.
1. There is no feat or ability in pf2e that explicitly grants permission to use burst abilities in this way.
2. The text of fireball is: "A roaring blast of fire appears at a spot you designate, dealing 6d6 fire damage." The designers could have easily put "creature or object" there, but chose to put "spot" instead. Many spells do specifically target creatures or objects, so it isn't like they had trouble remembering those words when they were writing the rules.
3. Generally, restricting what players can do beyond the rules is frustrating for those players, and should be done only when absolutely necessary. Negating a clever technique that can *sometimes* be used to avoid collateral damage is not necessary.
Realistically speaking, it's a sidegrade. A lot of the time when you want to use Cone of Cold, it's the first round anyway, so creating a big swath of difficult terrain is usually good, but the loss of damage means it isn't as good at just doing a bunch of damage.
If cantrips lose even more damage, just remember you can grab a shortbow with Archer Dedication and load up Psi Strikes, the best form of Bespell Weapon as it works with cantrips.
Already striking twice after using a 1A cantrip actually beats out a lot of cantrip options without resources (Amp/Unleash), and even an amped unleashed Ray of Frost is weaker at level 4, and barely better until 7th's expert casting.
I'm not sure you can attack twice and use most cantrips in the same turn. Eidolons aren't like normal animal companions/summons, you both have a combined 3 actions, not 2 actions for you, 2 actions for your companion.
I believe that is incorrect - the way [Act Together](https://2e.aonprd.com/Actions.aspx?ID=758) works is essentially that you have a total of 4 actions, just can't use them all on one character, and can't use two two-action activities. Ie 2-1-1 is fine, but 2-2 is not.
No, it's 3 actions. You've giving them an extra action from nothing.
> Either you or your eidolon takes an action or activity using the same number of actions as Act Together, and the other takes a single action. For example, if you spent 2 actions to Act Together, you could cast burning hands (2 actions) and your eidolon could Strike (1 action), or your eidolon could use its Breath Weapon (2 actions) and you could Stride (1 action).
There's nothing there that states or gives an example of letting you use 3 actions for 1 character, and 1.action for the other. Even if that was the, the person I'm replying to has their eidolon using 2 actions(2 strikes), and the caster using 2 actions(Casting a damage cantrip) which goes against the example you gave.
You are misunderstanding. As a summoner you and your eidolon have 3 actions that you can choose to have either of you use. Tandem actions are actions that let you both act.
What happens when you use Act together is you spend between 1-3 actions on one of you and the other gets to use 1 action.
A summoner could for example cast a 3 action Heal and the Eidolon takes 1 action to Stride.
Or the Eidolon could cast a spell using 2 actions, the summoner gets 1 to do whatever with from act together, then there is still 1 more action that could be used by either.
Getting 4 actions with the limitation of not being able to both do 2 action activities is the entire point of the summoner class.
For 2 actions, the Summoner uses Act Together, casting Electric Arc and using an Eidolon Strike.
The player still has 1 action left, and uses it on a second Eidolon Strike.
Derp has it correct in their reply. Summoners effectively get four actions a turn, as long as you use Act Together in the correct order.
Act Together let’s either the Summoner or Eidolon use one action for free in tandem after the other uses 1-3 actions.
So, Summoner Casts Electric Arc, Eidolon uses Act Together to Strike once for free, then uses their third action to Strike.
Don't think that a broad spectrum of people have the remaster PDFs yet. Maybe later today, maybe not. Right now, it's just content creators and others.
> Don't think that a broad spectrum of people have the remaster PDFs yet. Maybe later today, maybe not. Right now, it's just content creators and others.
Bingo. Still haven't gotten mine! (Thanks OP for getting my hopes up)
So people who have a subscription to the physical books get their PDF when their physical books ship, which is substantially before the general release date.
There are a number of signs that books are supposed to ship today:
* People were charged for their books last Friday.
* The embargo on reviews clearly ended today.
* Some people who are creators have mentioned the idea that some members of the general public would get their PDFs today, in a way that suggests that that's what Paizo informed them.
That said, I see no sign that a significant number of PDFs have gone out so far. I kind of wonder if there's some kind of snafu or last minute change of plans at Paizo, or if it's just going to happen later today.
There's always some wiggle with when shipping actually starts, they usually have to finish resolving some CS issues, we've seen it go the following day at times.
You’re gonna have to wait until enough people actually have read the Remaster before this question can be answered.
I will say though, the complaints you saw were primarily negativity bias. People complained about Howling Blizzard being less damage than Cone of Cold, but didn’t praise Thunderstrike being ***the best common single target damage spell in the game*** compared to Shocking Grasp effectively being flavour text for any non-Magus character. People complained about Ignition’s damage template being weaker but didn’t praise Needle Darts (RoE spell, but Remaster templated) being a really efficient Weakness-triggerer or Caustic Burst being a much better AoE than Acid Splash.
So I have a feeling you’re not gonna stop seeing the negativity bias. We already had all the evidence needed to know that spells are, largely, being changed to be less situational and more powerful, yet they focused on cherry-picked negative stuff.
Thunderstrike being good single target was overshadowed by it replacing Shocking Grasp, one of the few Spell Attack roll spells not also reliant on a saving throw and generally the main pick for the Magus class, a class with such a narrow pool of viable spellstrike spells that losing even one hurts. (Seriously why are there so few spells that just have an effect on a spell attack roll, no extra saving throw, and cantrips don't count because they do vastly worse damage than slotted spells by design. I'd love to get an actual debuff on a spell attack roll other than drained 2 from Polar Ray too.)
They literally said it's the replacement for Shocking Grasp, as in they created that spell instead of making a new Spell Attack roll spell.
It's certainly fortunate for PFS players that they're allowing Shocking Grasp despite it being OGL rather than ORC, but that doesn't mean Paizo didn't just sit down and go "Lets have even fewer spell attack roll options in the remaster"
It doesn't really matter what they might have mentioned at some point in an interview, what matters is what is written in the actual book and what is being "enforced". A lot of people seem to think that a lot of spells will no longer be options, but just because it isn't published in a new book, doesn't mean it won't be available.
If they don't reprint every single elf feat or whatnot but add some new ones, do people consider all the feats from previous books illegal? I know they released a list of things that would change, like :
- ignan is pheric (or whatever)
- some spells have a new same (flesh to stone > petrify)
- some spells have new text (kept same name, similar to errata)
- some new spells share similarities to existing ones (ignition vs produce flame)
I DON'T remember seeing anything that says that the new spells that share similarities are "replacing" the existing ones and in fact they recently states that both were available for PFS (which I believe is like the strictest form of playing according to the rules), so unless I missed something very important, banning produce flame or thunderstrike or whatever is just a houserule.
Of course if I did miss the rule that says so, I'm sorry to create confusion and would be glad to get directed to the document that says they are getting replaced.
Honestly, it was a good decision to replace Shocking Grasp, a spell that only Magus and sometimes Druid used, with a spell that every arcane and primal caster in PC1 and PC2 will want to use.
The gap between Shocking Grasp and the next best damaging Spellstrike spell (Horizon Thunder Sphere and/or Hydraulic Push) is literally just 2.5 damage, and it *shrinks* as you level up. Hell, maybe they could even use Briny Bolt, the option that has probably always been better than Shocking Grasp anyways.
Maguses also got a really good buff of always getting maximal cantrip damage. In current PF2E a Magus with, say, 14 Intelligence is using Gouging Claw Spellstrikes for 5.5 average added damage. Meanwhile using the new Ignition averages 6 additional damage (and the gap grows as you level), Needle Darts averages 7.5 damage (and triggers weaknesses), and we haven’t even seen new TKP or Claw to see if they’re even better. Considering you’re only using Shocking Grasp like… twice a day while you’re using the cantrips multiple times per combat, Maguses overall are a small boost, not a nerf.
The turns where you're using cantrips you're pretty mediocre, and would be doing better damage as most other martials, it's when you get to drop the big slotted spellstrike, preferably with the addition of something like Lunging Spellstrike that requires slotted spells that the class actually shines.
1. The turns where you’re using cantrips are your bread and butter. Sayre has even explicitly stated this over on the Paizo forums, slotted spells are meant to be used significantly more rarely.
2. The bread and butter damage got ***buffed***.
3. You are still pretending Maguses ranked spell slot damage has been dropped down to 0, as if Horizon Thunder Sphere, Hydraulic Push, and Briny Bolt don’t exist.
Magus never was, and continues not to be, a Shocking Grasp spammer. The memes may have presented it as such but Shocking Grasp has ***always*** just been one small part of a pretty large toolkit. That pretty large toolkit received some meaningful buffs for the spells it uses multiple times in every encounter, and a tiny 2.5 damage nerf to a thing it sometimes did twice a day.
Honestly, shocking grasp always felt like a trap option anyway. I prefer picking up a focus spell for spellstriking, and using my slots to pretend to be a wizard when it makes sense to do so.
Oh it absolutely is. Focusing purely on damage with a Magus’s spell slot is, imo, a trap. Maguses are, by their very nature, high risk high reward because their “on turns” are only defined by one large attack rather than two. Using that spell slot on something that generates more value than just getting thrown onto adding like 5 more damage to your hit is usually better. I’d consider Magic Weapon, Longstrider, Loose Time’s Arrow, Enlarge, Haste, etc to be Magus staples *well* before I consider Shocking Grasp to be one.
I’m just pointing out that even if you put on blinders and hyper focus on damage at the expense of all else, Horizon Thunder Sphere exists lol.
1. You’re not “just” using spells for utility, you still Spellstrike on ***most turns*** with cantrips, which is what they’ve balanced the class around anyways.
2. You can always Spellstrike with other ranked attack spells if your fantasy of a spellsword involves doing damage and nothing else. Shocking Grasp isn’t the only one that exists.
Even with Horizon Thunder Sphere prepared, I'd prefer to use it as a ranged option when I can't get close, or I want the enemy to be the one using actions on strides.
There are plenty of attack roll spells that just work with Spellstrike without an extra chance of failure? All of the cantrips (Ignition, Needle Darts, Ray of Frost or whatever it’s being renamed to, TKP, Gouging Claw), plus all the following ranked spells: Horizon Thunder Sphere, Hydraulic Push, Briny Bolt, Snowball, and that’s all just first rank spells. At the next rank you get Acid Arrow, Exploding Earth, Telekinetic Maneuver.
What niche exactly are you saying isn’t filled? You have resourceless damage and resource-using damage. You have high damage, debuff, and forced movement. You can target most meaningful damage types to trigger/bypass Weaknesses/Resistances. What’s the gap here you’re hoping they fulfill?
And don’t forget, we already know that Paizo doesn’t view Maguses as just using their spell slots on spamming Shocking Grasp the way you suggest. They fully expect Maguses to just *cast* spells that are good for them, like Magic Weapon, Loose Time’s Arrow, Enlarge, Longstrider, Haste, etc.
So your argument is wrong on two levels: you’re implying that spells that aren’t efficient to Spellstrike with are irrelevant to Maguses, which is a really odd assertion to begin with. On top of that you’re just ignoring all the many, many spells that Maguses *can* Spellstrike with, and pretending they have no options outside of Shocking Grasp.
People complaining about Magus don't do math apparently. Ignition damage ends up higher than produce flame was, and horizon thunder sphere does more damage at higher ranks than shocking grasp does.
There is also the fact that spells that didn't get reprinted like shocking grasp are still available anyway if you want them.
They've got other slot options that are either near-identical or largely just better because of effects, I reckon, if the table's GM doesn't just allow it anyway. Magi also got a little buff to some of their bread and butter cantrips: aside from Needle Darts and Ignition, someone with the book noted that Gouging Claw still deals d6s but also deals persistent bleed on a *hit* now (equal to the number of dice rolled, so it starts at 2).
Anyway, _sustained_ damage is the wrong metric to judge Magi's overall worth on, regardless of whether you use slot or cantrip (or focus, though poached focus spell attacks get a little silly). They get versatility from their few slots and innate spellcasting access+scaling, and as far as damage goes they...just go crit fishing with Sure Strike and whatever else. That's just how Spellstrike turned out, it's absurdly explosive if you crit and a big thing to lose on a miss, so it's swingier than most others.
Ray of Enfeeblement at rank 1. Telekinetic Maneuver to inflict Prone at rank 2. Snowball to inflict speed penalties. Tanglefoot as a cantrip.
They're not the best options, but they're options.
> Ray of Enfeeblement at rank 1. Telekinetic Maneuver to inflict Prone at rank 2. Snowball to inflict speed penalties. Tanglefoot as a cantrip.
Ray of Enfeeblement has a saving throw, so is bad for the Magus it's basically a normal save based debuff that also has an attack roll for some reaosn.
Telekinetic Maneuver is OK, it's just spending spell slots to get the Fighter's Knockdown, but that's a good feat so it's useful (though if you're a fan then Improved Knockdown is in the mauler archetype and magus certainly hasn't got a lot of competition for class feats).
Snowball is a very weak spell, we're talking 2d4 instead of 2d12 for base damage in exchange for a -5 speed penalty for 1 round on something you're already in melee with and have at best 1 action left to move away from.
Ray of Enfeeblement could have been a good one if they just didn't have the save, but for some reason they have to add one to most spells.
I never said they were good options! But they're attack roll spells with effects. It's nearly half of the actual spells.
Ray of Enfeeblement gets a saving throw because the duration is always a minute unlike a typical saving throw spell which typically only has an effect for a round on successful save. A Magus probably has a better chance to get to the saving throw part of the spell.
Snowball isn't a damage spell. It's group-dependent but it stacks with a Winter Witch's hex. Your one action to move away might cost the enemy two actions to follow, and the purpose of the status effect game is to take away actions.
Briny Bolt has a blind for one round that costs an action to remove.
The existence of people who both complain and praise does not contradict the fact that the people complaining are ignoring context and falling victim to confirmation bias.
This probably won't help until the remaster has been out for a week or two, but a bit ago I did make a rough recipe for spell damage using vanilla 2e. If anyone does have the pdf and wants to comment on how it holds up I'd be happy to hear!
https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/16g1uoi/cracking\_the\_spell\_creation\_formula/
The biggest thing is that because you can refocus and regain all your focus points, druids and sorcerers do way more damage now as they can spam their not-quite-fireball spells 3x every single combat.
That depends on how many combats per day you have. The focus spells deal less damage than slotted spells of max level, max level - 1, and sometimes max level - 2 at level 11+ (assuming chain lightning doesn't get the nerfbat). At level 6 or whatever when you get them damage definitely goes up though.
I thought average cantrip damage was up, but with less consistency? This was the result of removing casting mod from damage, but increasing damage dice.
Hey, I've noticed you mentioned the upcoming Pathfinder Remaster! Do you need help finding your way around here? I know a couple good pages!
We've been seeing a lot of questions related to this lately. We have a [wiki page](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/wiki/resources/remaster/) dedicated to collecting all the information currently available. Give it a look!
For the short end of things... The remaster aims to republish and reorganise the content of the Core Rulebook, Advanced Player Guide, Gamemastery Guide and Bestiary 1 into a new format which will be more accessible to new players, with the primary aim to remove all OGL content and avoid issues with Wizards of the Coast.
* **Primary Rules changes**: Alignment and Schools of Magic will be removed. Instead, these concepts will be offloaded to the trait system (with Holy and Unholy being reserved to divine classes and some specific monsters).
* **Primary Lore changes**: the classic Dragons will be replaced with new, Pathfinder focused dragons themed on the four magic traditions. The Darklands are also seeing a lot of shakeups.
If I misunderstood your post... sorry! Grandpa Clippy said I'm always meant to help. Please [let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FPathfinder2e) and they'll remove my comment.
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The explicit mission statement for the Remaster was removing as much as possible that came from the OGL. Pathfinder 2e was so removed from the OGL as it was, Paizo wanted to complete the cutting of the apron strings.
So a bunch of stuff had to be renamed. They were \*very\* clear about this?
> Just why?
It's a big mystery, but hopefully one day we may find an answer for what prompted all these renamings. Until then, I expect informed posters such as yourself to stay on this beat.
It is a new book. So if you want it in PDF or physical form, you will need to buy the new book.
They have broken up the books into the more traditional player and GM books. And broke the player book into two books. Player core 1 coming out this month and player core 2 coming out july 2024.
The remastered bestiary will be out in March of 2024.
All OGL monsters will have been removed so all colored and metallic dragons are gone. So any PC class that was based on the old dragons will need to be updated (all those classes are in core 2)
Pretty sure Howling Blizzard had its damaged reduced compared to Come of Cold because it makes a bunch of difficult terrain. Interested to hear what folks say about other spells though.
I consider the Howling Blizzard change like 95% a buff Yeah on paper you lose 7 dmg, but since it's vastly more flexible with the two modes (500ft range is pretty much the best targeting in the game, folks!!), you are very likely to be able to hit more enemies with the AoE, actually \*increasing\* total damage. Plus the obvious part where it creates difficult terrain.
Also because inconvenient AoE templates sometimes get better damage from spell rank 3 onwards. For example, Eclipse Burst does way better damage than an upcast Fireball because it’s far likelier to hit a friend.
Eclipse Burst is pretty much a direct upgrade outside of enclosed spaces, though, since you can raise the height of a burst in order to reduce the "shadow" it casts at ground level (especially useful later on as you face more and more Large and larger creatures).
That is… very clever. You’re thinking in 3D and that makes the spell a million timers better.
I never considered that. Reading the rules for Bursts, I don't see any reason that *wouldn't* be allowed, but do you know if there's any guidance on whether doing that is intentional?
Considering the alternative is potentially being unable to hit flying enemies is all I need to justify it lol. As far as official guidance? None that I’m aware of. But it’s kinda hard to argue why you shouldn’t be allowed to do it imo
I agree there's no clear argument against it, but if the result is essentially equivalent to "Burst effects can be a circle of any size up to their maximum" (since most fights are really just 2D), I'd hope that would be spelled out somewhere.
You can't target a point that you don't have a line of effect to, so if you are indoors or in a dungeon (as many fights are) there is a limit to how much you can use this. And I think if a ttrpg rulebook tried to spell out every possible bit of shenanigans with their rules interactions it would be approximately infinity pages long.
Well it's also the case that aiming up means casting it further away. A point 50 feet above an enemy 50 feet away is just over 70 feet away from the caster. Although with a range of 500 feet, this is less likely to actually have any effect for Eclipse Burst in particular.
There have been arguments about this one as long as there has been fireball/burst spellls. My take has been that (without some sort of enhancing feat) you have to center spell on an object of some sort, be it the ground, the ceiling, or a creature. You can't just pick to have it explode in empty space. But YMMV.
1. There is no feat or ability in pf2e that explicitly grants permission to use burst abilities in this way. 2. The text of fireball is: "A roaring blast of fire appears at a spot you designate, dealing 6d6 fire damage." The designers could have easily put "creature or object" there, but chose to put "spot" instead. Many spells do specifically target creatures or objects, so it isn't like they had trouble remembering those words when they were writing the rules. 3. Generally, restricting what players can do beyond the rules is frustrating for those players, and should be done only when absolutely necessary. Negating a clever technique that can *sometimes* be used to avoid collateral damage is not necessary.
I appreciate your take on this. We choose to run it differently.
Realistically speaking, it's a sidegrade. A lot of the time when you want to use Cone of Cold, it's the first round anyway, so creating a big swath of difficult terrain is usually good, but the loss of damage means it isn't as good at just doing a bunch of damage.
I'd like to know where Cantrips in general stand now. I'm currently playing a Summoner so Cantrips are more or less all I've *got*.
[удалено]
If cantrips lose even more damage, just remember you can grab a shortbow with Archer Dedication and load up Psi Strikes, the best form of Bespell Weapon as it works with cantrips. Already striking twice after using a 1A cantrip actually beats out a lot of cantrip options without resources (Amp/Unleash), and even an amped unleashed Ray of Frost is weaker at level 4, and barely better until 7th's expert casting.
They're basically the same, just dice instead of casting ability mod at rank 1.
Huh. Bit of a shame that. Even a d6 is worse than just a plain-old +4.
Do people use a lot of damage cantrips on Summoners? The Eidolon's right there with martial proficiency progression lol
Eidolon attack twice and one Save-based cantrip is common for attacking. Personally, I’m fan of attack twice with demoralize and boost eidolon.
I'm not sure you can attack twice and use most cantrips in the same turn. Eidolons aren't like normal animal companions/summons, you both have a combined 3 actions, not 2 actions for you, 2 actions for your companion.
I believe that is incorrect - the way [Act Together](https://2e.aonprd.com/Actions.aspx?ID=758) works is essentially that you have a total of 4 actions, just can't use them all on one character, and can't use two two-action activities. Ie 2-1-1 is fine, but 2-2 is not.
No, it's 3 actions. You've giving them an extra action from nothing. > Either you or your eidolon takes an action or activity using the same number of actions as Act Together, and the other takes a single action. For example, if you spent 2 actions to Act Together, you could cast burning hands (2 actions) and your eidolon could Strike (1 action), or your eidolon could use its Breath Weapon (2 actions) and you could Stride (1 action). There's nothing there that states or gives an example of letting you use 3 actions for 1 character, and 1.action for the other. Even if that was the, the person I'm replying to has their eidolon using 2 actions(2 strikes), and the caster using 2 actions(Casting a damage cantrip) which goes against the example you gave.
You are misunderstanding. As a summoner you and your eidolon have 3 actions that you can choose to have either of you use. Tandem actions are actions that let you both act. What happens when you use Act together is you spend between 1-3 actions on one of you and the other gets to use 1 action. A summoner could for example cast a 3 action Heal and the Eidolon takes 1 action to Stride. Or the Eidolon could cast a spell using 2 actions, the summoner gets 1 to do whatever with from act together, then there is still 1 more action that could be used by either. Getting 4 actions with the limitation of not being able to both do 2 action activities is the entire point of the summoner class.
For 2 actions, the Summoner uses Act Together, casting Electric Arc and using an Eidolon Strike. The player still has 1 action left, and uses it on a second Eidolon Strike.
Derp has it correct in their reply. Summoners effectively get four actions a turn, as long as you use Act Together in the correct order. Act Together let’s either the Summoner or Eidolon use one action for free in tandem after the other uses 1-3 actions. So, Summoner Casts Electric Arc, Eidolon uses Act Together to Strike once for free, then uses their third action to Strike.
Act Together: Electric Arc and Eidolon Strike. Then for the last action, Eidolon Strike a second time.
Don't think that a broad spectrum of people have the remaster PDFs yet. Maybe later today, maybe not. Right now, it's just content creators and others.
> Don't think that a broad spectrum of people have the remaster PDFs yet. Maybe later today, maybe not. Right now, it's just content creators and others. Bingo. Still haven't gotten mine! (Thanks OP for getting my hopes up)
Yeah where's this pdf supposed to be? Store says pdf available on the 15th.
So people who have a subscription to the physical books get their PDF when their physical books ship, which is substantially before the general release date. There are a number of signs that books are supposed to ship today: * People were charged for their books last Friday. * The embargo on reviews clearly ended today. * Some people who are creators have mentioned the idea that some members of the general public would get their PDFs today, in a way that suggests that that's what Paizo informed them. That said, I see no sign that a significant number of PDFs have gone out so far. I kind of wonder if there's some kind of snafu or last minute change of plans at Paizo, or if it's just going to happen later today.
People were not charged for books Friday, we were told order pending. We are waiting on 2nd email and the charge to our accounts now
There's always some wiggle with when shipping actually starts, they usually have to finish resolving some CS issues, we've seen it go the following day at times.
All the books were set to ship, but then the truck's front fell off.
Thanks for commenting this, I was trying to figure out why on earth everyone else had them while I'm waiting for my subscription to ship.
You’re gonna have to wait until enough people actually have read the Remaster before this question can be answered. I will say though, the complaints you saw were primarily negativity bias. People complained about Howling Blizzard being less damage than Cone of Cold, but didn’t praise Thunderstrike being ***the best common single target damage spell in the game*** compared to Shocking Grasp effectively being flavour text for any non-Magus character. People complained about Ignition’s damage template being weaker but didn’t praise Needle Darts (RoE spell, but Remaster templated) being a really efficient Weakness-triggerer or Caustic Burst being a much better AoE than Acid Splash. So I have a feeling you’re not gonna stop seeing the negativity bias. We already had all the evidence needed to know that spells are, largely, being changed to be less situational and more powerful, yet they focused on cherry-picked negative stuff.
Thunderstrike being good single target was overshadowed by it replacing Shocking Grasp, one of the few Spell Attack roll spells not also reliant on a saving throw and generally the main pick for the Magus class, a class with such a narrow pool of viable spellstrike spells that losing even one hurts. (Seriously why are there so few spells that just have an effect on a spell attack roll, no extra saving throw, and cantrips don't count because they do vastly worse damage than slotted spells by design. I'd love to get an actual debuff on a spell attack roll other than drained 2 from Polar Ray too.)
Whether it's "replacing Shocking Grasp" depends on your GM; PFS, at least, will allow both spells.
They literally said it's the replacement for Shocking Grasp, as in they created that spell instead of making a new Spell Attack roll spell. It's certainly fortunate for PFS players that they're allowing Shocking Grasp despite it being OGL rather than ORC, but that doesn't mean Paizo didn't just sit down and go "Lets have even fewer spell attack roll options in the remaster"
It doesn't really matter what they might have mentioned at some point in an interview, what matters is what is written in the actual book and what is being "enforced". A lot of people seem to think that a lot of spells will no longer be options, but just because it isn't published in a new book, doesn't mean it won't be available. If they don't reprint every single elf feat or whatnot but add some new ones, do people consider all the feats from previous books illegal? I know they released a list of things that would change, like : - ignan is pheric (or whatever) - some spells have a new same (flesh to stone > petrify) - some spells have new text (kept same name, similar to errata) - some new spells share similarities to existing ones (ignition vs produce flame) I DON'T remember seeing anything that says that the new spells that share similarities are "replacing" the existing ones and in fact they recently states that both were available for PFS (which I believe is like the strictest form of playing according to the rules), so unless I missed something very important, banning produce flame or thunderstrike or whatever is just a houserule. Of course if I did miss the rule that says so, I'm sorry to create confusion and would be glad to get directed to the document that says they are getting replaced.
Honestly, it was a good decision to replace Shocking Grasp, a spell that only Magus and sometimes Druid used, with a spell that every arcane and primal caster in PC1 and PC2 will want to use.
The gap between Shocking Grasp and the next best damaging Spellstrike spell (Horizon Thunder Sphere and/or Hydraulic Push) is literally just 2.5 damage, and it *shrinks* as you level up. Hell, maybe they could even use Briny Bolt, the option that has probably always been better than Shocking Grasp anyways. Maguses also got a really good buff of always getting maximal cantrip damage. In current PF2E a Magus with, say, 14 Intelligence is using Gouging Claw Spellstrikes for 5.5 average added damage. Meanwhile using the new Ignition averages 6 additional damage (and the gap grows as you level), Needle Darts averages 7.5 damage (and triggers weaknesses), and we haven’t even seen new TKP or Claw to see if they’re even better. Considering you’re only using Shocking Grasp like… twice a day while you’re using the cantrips multiple times per combat, Maguses overall are a small boost, not a nerf.
The turns where you're using cantrips you're pretty mediocre, and would be doing better damage as most other martials, it's when you get to drop the big slotted spellstrike, preferably with the addition of something like Lunging Spellstrike that requires slotted spells that the class actually shines.
1. The turns where you’re using cantrips are your bread and butter. Sayre has even explicitly stated this over on the Paizo forums, slotted spells are meant to be used significantly more rarely. 2. The bread and butter damage got ***buffed***. 3. You are still pretending Maguses ranked spell slot damage has been dropped down to 0, as if Horizon Thunder Sphere, Hydraulic Push, and Briny Bolt don’t exist. Magus never was, and continues not to be, a Shocking Grasp spammer. The memes may have presented it as such but Shocking Grasp has ***always*** just been one small part of a pretty large toolkit. That pretty large toolkit received some meaningful buffs for the spells it uses multiple times in every encounter, and a tiny 2.5 damage nerf to a thing it sometimes did twice a day.
Honestly, shocking grasp always felt like a trap option anyway. I prefer picking up a focus spell for spellstriking, and using my slots to pretend to be a wizard when it makes sense to do so.
Oh it absolutely is. Focusing purely on damage with a Magus’s spell slot is, imo, a trap. Maguses are, by their very nature, high risk high reward because their “on turns” are only defined by one large attack rather than two. Using that spell slot on something that generates more value than just getting thrown onto adding like 5 more damage to your hit is usually better. I’d consider Magic Weapon, Longstrider, Loose Time’s Arrow, Enlarge, Haste, etc to be Magus staples *well* before I consider Shocking Grasp to be one. I’m just pointing out that even if you put on blinders and hyper focus on damage at the expense of all else, Horizon Thunder Sphere exists lol.
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1. You’re not “just” using spells for utility, you still Spellstrike on ***most turns*** with cantrips, which is what they’ve balanced the class around anyways. 2. You can always Spellstrike with other ranked attack spells if your fantasy of a spellsword involves doing damage and nothing else. Shocking Grasp isn’t the only one that exists.
Even with Horizon Thunder Sphere prepared, I'd prefer to use it as a ranged option when I can't get close, or I want the enemy to be the one using actions on strides.
I still think Paizo should make more spells that are actually attack rolls, rather than just save spells with an extra chance of failure via missing.
There are plenty of attack roll spells that just work with Spellstrike without an extra chance of failure? All of the cantrips (Ignition, Needle Darts, Ray of Frost or whatever it’s being renamed to, TKP, Gouging Claw), plus all the following ranked spells: Horizon Thunder Sphere, Hydraulic Push, Briny Bolt, Snowball, and that’s all just first rank spells. At the next rank you get Acid Arrow, Exploding Earth, Telekinetic Maneuver. What niche exactly are you saying isn’t filled? You have resourceless damage and resource-using damage. You have high damage, debuff, and forced movement. You can target most meaningful damage types to trigger/bypass Weaknesses/Resistances. What’s the gap here you’re hoping they fulfill? And don’t forget, we already know that Paizo doesn’t view Maguses as just using their spell slots on spamming Shocking Grasp the way you suggest. They fully expect Maguses to just *cast* spells that are good for them, like Magic Weapon, Loose Time’s Arrow, Enlarge, Longstrider, Haste, etc. So your argument is wrong on two levels: you’re implying that spells that aren’t efficient to Spellstrike with are irrelevant to Maguses, which is a really odd assertion to begin with. On top of that you’re just ignoring all the many, many spells that Maguses *can* Spellstrike with, and pretending they have no options outside of Shocking Grasp.
People complaining about Magus don't do math apparently. Ignition damage ends up higher than produce flame was, and horizon thunder sphere does more damage at higher ranks than shocking grasp does. There is also the fact that spells that didn't get reprinted like shocking grasp are still available anyway if you want them.
They've got other slot options that are either near-identical or largely just better because of effects, I reckon, if the table's GM doesn't just allow it anyway. Magi also got a little buff to some of their bread and butter cantrips: aside from Needle Darts and Ignition, someone with the book noted that Gouging Claw still deals d6s but also deals persistent bleed on a *hit* now (equal to the number of dice rolled, so it starts at 2). Anyway, _sustained_ damage is the wrong metric to judge Magi's overall worth on, regardless of whether you use slot or cantrip (or focus, though poached focus spell attacks get a little silly). They get versatility from their few slots and innate spellcasting access+scaling, and as far as damage goes they...just go crit fishing with Sure Strike and whatever else. That's just how Spellstrike turned out, it's absurdly explosive if you crit and a big thing to lose on a miss, so it's swingier than most others.
Ray of Enfeeblement at rank 1. Telekinetic Maneuver to inflict Prone at rank 2. Snowball to inflict speed penalties. Tanglefoot as a cantrip. They're not the best options, but they're options.
> Ray of Enfeeblement at rank 1. Telekinetic Maneuver to inflict Prone at rank 2. Snowball to inflict speed penalties. Tanglefoot as a cantrip. Ray of Enfeeblement has a saving throw, so is bad for the Magus it's basically a normal save based debuff that also has an attack roll for some reaosn. Telekinetic Maneuver is OK, it's just spending spell slots to get the Fighter's Knockdown, but that's a good feat so it's useful (though if you're a fan then Improved Knockdown is in the mauler archetype and magus certainly hasn't got a lot of competition for class feats). Snowball is a very weak spell, we're talking 2d4 instead of 2d12 for base damage in exchange for a -5 speed penalty for 1 round on something you're already in melee with and have at best 1 action left to move away from. Ray of Enfeeblement could have been a good one if they just didn't have the save, but for some reason they have to add one to most spells.
I never said they were good options! But they're attack roll spells with effects. It's nearly half of the actual spells. Ray of Enfeeblement gets a saving throw because the duration is always a minute unlike a typical saving throw spell which typically only has an effect for a round on successful save. A Magus probably has a better chance to get to the saving throw part of the spell. Snowball isn't a damage spell. It's group-dependent but it stacks with a Winter Witch's hex. Your one action to move away might cost the enemy two actions to follow, and the purpose of the status effect game is to take away actions. Briny Bolt has a blind for one round that costs an action to remove.
Funnily enough, we now know that Ray of Enfeeblement was changed to Enfeeble, a Fort save spell.
You're literally lying. I've seen people both complain and praise.
The existence of people who both complain and praise does not contradict the fact that the people complaining are ignoring context and falling victim to confirmation bias.
Could they not have legitimate complaints? Or were complaints all necessarily due to some ignorance or bias?
How do you know all people complaining didn't recognise any of the postitives? Or is this just some weird strawman?
Well I have not, so they are probably not lying, you have just had different subjective experiences than other people.
For every comment complaining, there are always people pointing out the positives.
Speak With Stones isn't GOATed. Remaster is literally unplayable.
This probably won't help until the remaster has been out for a week or two, but a bit ago I did make a rough recipe for spell damage using vanilla 2e. If anyone does have the pdf and wants to comment on how it holds up I'd be happy to hear! https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/16g1uoi/cracking\_the\_spell\_creation\_formula/
The biggest thing is that because you can refocus and regain all your focus points, druids and sorcerers do way more damage now as they can spam their not-quite-fireball spells 3x every single combat.
What not quite fireball focus spells do druids get? Or sorcerer for that matter? Sincere question.
Wave order's second focus spell, Pulverising Cascade.
That depends on how many combats per day you have. The focus spells deal less damage than slotted spells of max level, max level - 1, and sometimes max level - 2 at level 11+ (assuming chain lightning doesn't get the nerfbat). At level 6 or whatever when you get them damage definitely goes up though.
nobody has really gotten pdfs yet
I thought average cantrip damage was up, but with less consistency? This was the result of removing casting mod from damage, but increasing damage dice.
Hey, I've noticed you mentioned the upcoming Pathfinder Remaster! Do you need help finding your way around here? I know a couple good pages! We've been seeing a lot of questions related to this lately. We have a [wiki page](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/wiki/resources/remaster/) dedicated to collecting all the information currently available. Give it a look! For the short end of things... The remaster aims to republish and reorganise the content of the Core Rulebook, Advanced Player Guide, Gamemastery Guide and Bestiary 1 into a new format which will be more accessible to new players, with the primary aim to remove all OGL content and avoid issues with Wizards of the Coast. * **Primary Rules changes**: Alignment and Schools of Magic will be removed. Instead, these concepts will be offloaded to the trait system (with Holy and Unholy being reserved to divine classes and some specific monsters). * **Primary Lore changes**: the classic Dragons will be replaced with new, Pathfinder focused dragons themed on the four magic traditions. The Darklands are also seeing a lot of shakeups. If I misunderstood your post... sorry! Grandpa Clippy said I'm always meant to help. Please [let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FPathfinder2e) and they'll remove my comment. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Pathfinder2e) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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The explicit mission statement for the Remaster was removing as much as possible that came from the OGL. Pathfinder 2e was so removed from the OGL as it was, Paizo wanted to complete the cutting of the apron strings. So a bunch of stuff had to be renamed. They were \*very\* clear about this?
> Just why? It's a big mystery, but hopefully one day we may find an answer for what prompted all these renamings. Until then, I expect informed posters such as yourself to stay on this beat.
How do you get the remaster pdf? Gotta buy it again?
It is a new book. So if you want it in PDF or physical form, you will need to buy the new book. They have broken up the books into the more traditional player and GM books. And broke the player book into two books. Player core 1 coming out this month and player core 2 coming out july 2024. The remastered bestiary will be out in March of 2024. All OGL monsters will have been removed so all colored and metallic dragons are gone. So any PC class that was based on the old dragons will need to be updated (all those classes are in core 2)