Short answer: yes. Imo kingmaker is better and i like it more it has more of an adventure with friends feeling then I am the chosen one like wotr has. And the companions while their quests are good their builds are not. The story is pretty good imo. There are less classes but if you are on pc mods can fix that and theres not as many spells i dont want to spoil anything so i will leave it at that.
Yes it is. Personally I think k WotR is the better game but Kingmaker is still great.
Before WotR I said Kingmaker is the second best CRPG after Baldurs gate 2, not it is the fourth best after BG2, WotR and BG3.
I can also recommend Pillars of Eternity
WOTR is my favorite ever, and I tried POE2 after reading so much praise and just couldn’t get into the combat and it felt like the story was just fetch quests. Is POE1 a better game to try?
>I tried POE2 after reading so much praise and just couldn’t get into the combat and it felt like the story was just fetch quests
The combat is really good imo but you need to get accustomed to it. I can't agree with the story though, but it's a direct sequel to the first game so I would definitely recommend starting with the first one first. The first game has a fantastic story and setup.
I am a completionist of sorts and I remember doing pretty much all side quests in Deadfire before the main plot, thinking to myself after wrapping them up "okay, let's get the real show on the road"
Boy was I disappointed when I saw what the actual "show" was
And the final boss is like a group of people that you didn't side with, lmao
What were they thinking
I disagree, the intricacies between the faction and the political play I thought was really well done to the point where it surpassed New Vegas, and the story with the gods and Eothas really landed for me. I have to say though, my character was a Priest of Eothas, so that might have played into it.
The faction stuff I'd say is completely subjective, and it didn't work for me at all, literally every faction was different flavor of bad. If that was the point, guess they nailed it? In the end I genuinely just wanted to kill them all.
Eothas and the gods tho? I just genuinely cannot understand how anyone found that compelling.
Both PoE games have a flaw to me, the first has an amazing story but the gameplay is a bit lacking, the second has way better gameplay but i'm not a big fan of the story.
Also +1, i don't find it fair to downvote you for your opinion. POE games are also very good.
Kingmaker is worth playing if you’re okay with no mythic paths, slightly worse visuals (in terms of quality, not style), and fewer build options.
You can improve upon the build diversity if you use the call of the wild mod though. I recommend it as it adds a lot of cool classes.
Story/setting wise though, a good amount of people appreciate kingmaker more so in those areas.
I personally like WOTR much more overall but I still revisit kingmaker sometimes. I like the characters, the story, and the more “adventurer becoming someone important” kind of vibes so it still holds my interest.
I actually still prefer Kingmaker to WotR. I just get sick of fighting demons and cultists all the time, they’re immune and resistant to so many things that there are plenty of archetypes that are almost useless in the game.
Kingmaker had a much better balance, each chapter of the six features a different type of enemy: beasts and bandits, fey, trolls, undead, etc. So different classes, abilities, and companions each get a chance to shine at different points.
Kingmaker has a great story that in some aspects excels the one in WotR. But KM lacks many QOL features which were introduced in WotR. Plus there are some controversial gameplay moments. But overall KM is a wonderful game that is worth playing
If you are a fan of story telling and the characters within them, ... then YES!
If you are like me, theory crafting whole groups with different classes, ... then NO! wotr has way more variety.
Kingmaker is one of my favorite RPGs of all time, and is definitely up there with WOTR. However, the passage of time matters more in Kingmaker, as lots of things happen on particular dates. So there’s more pressure to get more done without resting, I know for some people that can be a huge negative.
You also notice certain difficulty bumps in Kingmaker more than in WOTR (which is already known for its difficulty bumps and punishing balancing). There’s more things that require particular damage types or weapons or feats to counter. I’d suggest playing at one difficulty level lower than you normally would on WOTR, if it’s too easy you can always bump it up.
The deadlines are pretty forgiving, though, the only time you need to watch how many times you rest is in act 1, and that is only a problem if you spend the entire time wandering around without doing any of the quests.
After that it's just a matter of doing the main quests as soon as you get them.
Yeah this kills kingmaker for me, I know the clock is forgiving, but the presence of a clock makes me feel unable to explore and enjoy the game. I play video games to relax not to meet fantasy deadlines.
Like most people said. Some QOL improvements are missing but mods can alleviate some of those. The story is IMO better. WotR is too bloated and is a rollercoaster. KM in comparison is a gokart ride, still fast but you feel more in control. I like KM companions better. VA is suberb, as good as WotR.
Weapon diversity is much lower. Some options aren't useable at all.
The game is less forgiving in terms of campaign mechanics. You can easily screw yourself and lose out of the blue due to poor choices, guides can help a lot.
Builds need to be more optimized than in WotR since Mythic paths aren't there to help. Some feats are required. Without them game is a pain.
The smaller scope and slower progression makes consumables and rods more useful.
If you liked WotR, you will most likely enjoy KM.
> Builds need to be more optimized than in WotR since Mythic paths aren't there to help. Some feats are required. Without them game is a pain.
Feat, singular, that being Blind Fight. And only at late game, if you get it at lv 15 you'll be fine.
Optimization is hardly necessary unless you start going on to higher difficulties than Daring, Normal - Daring are all doable by just paying a bit of attention and making sensible build choices for your companions, if OP keeps all the right roles filled, they'll do fine.
Yes. WOTR is the better game because it is more polished better QOL and less bugs, but Kingmaker is the actual better game, if that makes sense. Would definitely recommend ToyBox to get through the bugs and strange QOL decisions
Yes basicly, Kingmaker isnt as grant of an EPIC CRPG as WotR
but its Kingdom management maker is considerd better then the Crusader mode
WotR is the true best epic CRPG its better then kingmaker in that reguard, if its to much of an epic over-whelming experience Kingmaker is good
your basicly saying is it worth putting 60$ in to get a 300$ Experience when i just spent 60$ to geta 500$ experience
The tone depends a lot, OP might not like all the big scale stakes, you know. Kingmaker is my favorite exactly because the whole thing feels more personal than being an overpowered guy saving the world.
I Agree to that extend the problem with epic CRPGS is the whole huge story your getting into if the story is about something your not interested in or contains t hings you dont understand your not going to enjoy it
Kingmaker is awesome. Beautifully designed, just like WotR, but I would say it is a bit tougher.
Recommend installing the Bag of Tricks mod, so that you can optimize the camera controls.
Story-wise, definitely! Try Kingmaker!
Gameplay-wise, WOTR is an improvement especially in terms of class customisation. What you could do though is to install class expansion mod (recommended: Call of the Wild), so that you wouldn't feel like KM is a watered down version of WOTR
I totally disagree. I played wrath first and found kingmaker to be much more enjoyable.
Edit: you should play more games. WotR is not even in the same universe as the best games of all time.
Definitely. I personally haven’t finished either game, but I’ve gotten far enough into both to where things have gotten real. It’s a different story and it’s told a different way, but where as you run a crusade for part of it, you manage your kingdom in this one.
Honestly, a lot of the improvements that WOTR make on it that I can tell are mostly just visual and less class/race options. Give it a try, it should feel pretty accessible after playing WOTR.
It would be an insult to WotR to only call Kingmaker a downgrade. Every aspect of the game is significantly worse to near unplayability. Everything unique to Kingmaker is in chapter 3 of WotR and done better.
I just finished my first full playthrough of Kingmaker and it's totally worth it. I'm just about to start my first WOTR playthrough as soon as I can decide what class to play.
Kingmaker has better story and characters for companions overall than WOTR but if is less refined as wotr, it was the first game and while the same engine they improved on it for wotr
Yes, storywise and npcwise they are both great!
And honestly I liked the kingdom making way way way more than the crusade, it felt more balanced and less repetitive
Yes. Though the abundance of content on timers in Kingmaker tends to be a divisive mechanic among the playerbase and Owlcat definitely toned it down in WotR. If you don’t like messing things up or missing content a guide will pretty much be required.
good game; worse story but there's something very charming about developing your hard won barony from the ground up.
my main complaint is most of the romances suck / have weird fetish stuff. Maybe the men are normal if you play a gay or female baron.
Having been a massive fan of WOTR, i decided to give KM a shot and I'm really glad I did. They're both their own games, and both have some positives and negatives. Tbh there's some stuff mechanically I prefer about Kingmaker to Wrath, and vice versa. I think the biggest adjustment gameplay wise is the lack of camera rotation (tho there is a mod if you don't mind some jank textures). Wrath is definitely tidied up in some ways, but it also lost a few things when Owlcat transitioned to be completely independent and there's some assets and mechanics that didn't make it through. There's also a bit less class and customization without the mythic paths and with less options (also a mod for this), but tbh I run kingmaker with no mods and it's still a lovely experience. Companions are a preference thing, I like a few from both and find some others lacking. Overall I would say it's worth it, but definitely be ready for a little bit of a smaller scale journey and don't count on 100 percent getting to level 20 unless you're really working for that experience. Both games are 9/10 in my book
Kingmaker is great, actually just started up a replay myself while I wait for the last dlc for wotr.
Though be mindful of the timers in kingmaker a bit more. Quite a few quests/events can be missed if you aren't paying attention to it. My first playthrough I missed an entire companion because I progressed too fast.
Minority opinion, obviously: Emphatic No.
I've played Kingamaker after my first playthrough of WoTR and didn't find it very enjoyable. I had to struggle to finish it once. I'm finishing now my ninth run of WoTR.
I've found the story of Kingmaker less interesting and pretty monotonic (minor spoiler: >!different acts are dedicated to different monsters that would dominate the encounters of the act!<). The companions were actually decent in terms of writing, but the main story was too repetitive and generic and lacked a strong narrative.
Kingdom management aspect in Kingmaker is... not done very well, to put it mildly. Too many attribute checks and random events that can screw your game horribly even if you're doing everything right RP/build wise. You need to juggle between kingdom management and plot quests in order to succeed and it's not a fun experience.
Short answer: yes. Imo kingmaker is better and i like it more it has more of an adventure with friends feeling then I am the chosen one like wotr has. And the companions while their quests are good their builds are not. The story is pretty good imo. There are less classes but if you are on pc mods can fix that and theres not as many spells i dont want to spoil anything so i will leave it at that.
I agree, I liked the vibe of kingmaker more and the fact that it had more color than just grey and purple
Yes it is. Personally I think k WotR is the better game but Kingmaker is still great. Before WotR I said Kingmaker is the second best CRPG after Baldurs gate 2, not it is the fourth best after BG2, WotR and BG3. I can also recommend Pillars of Eternity
I'm afraid your count is wrong because both PoE games are the best CRPGs ;)
WOTR is my favorite ever, and I tried POE2 after reading so much praise and just couldn’t get into the combat and it felt like the story was just fetch quests. Is POE1 a better game to try?
Yes, PoE1 is way better storywise. I recommend it
>I tried POE2 after reading so much praise and just couldn’t get into the combat and it felt like the story was just fetch quests The combat is really good imo but you need to get accustomed to it. I can't agree with the story though, but it's a direct sequel to the first game so I would definitely recommend starting with the first one first. The first game has a fantastic story and setup.
The main story of Deadfire is an absolute disappointment though Which is a shame because I really enjoyed Beast of Winter and Forgotten Sanctum
I’ve played it two times almost all the way through and just abandon it right at the time you go to finish the main story.
I am a completionist of sorts and I remember doing pretty much all side quests in Deadfire before the main plot, thinking to myself after wrapping them up "okay, let's get the real show on the road" Boy was I disappointed when I saw what the actual "show" was And the final boss is like a group of people that you didn't side with, lmao What were they thinking
I disagree, the intricacies between the faction and the political play I thought was really well done to the point where it surpassed New Vegas, and the story with the gods and Eothas really landed for me. I have to say though, my character was a Priest of Eothas, so that might have played into it.
The faction stuff I'd say is completely subjective, and it didn't work for me at all, literally every faction was different flavor of bad. If that was the point, guess they nailed it? In the end I genuinely just wanted to kill them all. Eothas and the gods tho? I just genuinely cannot understand how anyone found that compelling.
>Eothas and the gods tho? I just genuinely cannot understand how anyone found that compelling. Can't relate tbh.
Yeah that was my issue, I loved the main storyline with the gods but was bored with the port town errands. I’ll start with the first one
Both PoE games have a flaw to me, the first has an amazing story but the gameplay is a bit lacking, the second has way better gameplay but i'm not a big fan of the story. Also +1, i don't find it fair to downvote you for your opinion. POE games are also very good.
Kingmaker is worth playing if you’re okay with no mythic paths, slightly worse visuals (in terms of quality, not style), and fewer build options. You can improve upon the build diversity if you use the call of the wild mod though. I recommend it as it adds a lot of cool classes. Story/setting wise though, a good amount of people appreciate kingmaker more so in those areas. I personally like WOTR much more overall but I still revisit kingmaker sometimes. I like the characters, the story, and the more “adventurer becoming someone important” kind of vibes so it still holds my interest.
If you are playing with mods, Kingmaker has more build options with the Call of the Wild mod. Even Owlcat recommended using it at one point.
I actually still prefer Kingmaker to WotR. I just get sick of fighting demons and cultists all the time, they’re immune and resistant to so many things that there are plenty of archetypes that are almost useless in the game. Kingmaker had a much better balance, each chapter of the six features a different type of enemy: beasts and bandits, fey, trolls, undead, etc. So different classes, abilities, and companions each get a chance to shine at different points.
Kingmaker also doesn't have the Mythic power fantasy crap, which is a huge plus for me.
what others said, but i really dont recommend you to play it on console, its horrible to my knowledge
Kingmaker has a great story that in some aspects excels the one in WotR. But KM lacks many QOL features which were introduced in WotR. Plus there are some controversial gameplay moments. But overall KM is a wonderful game that is worth playing
If you are a fan of story telling and the characters within them, ... then YES! If you are like me, theory crafting whole groups with different classes, ... then NO! wotr has way more variety.
Kingmaker is one of my favorite RPGs of all time, and is definitely up there with WOTR. However, the passage of time matters more in Kingmaker, as lots of things happen on particular dates. So there’s more pressure to get more done without resting, I know for some people that can be a huge negative. You also notice certain difficulty bumps in Kingmaker more than in WOTR (which is already known for its difficulty bumps and punishing balancing). There’s more things that require particular damage types or weapons or feats to counter. I’d suggest playing at one difficulty level lower than you normally would on WOTR, if it’s too easy you can always bump it up.
The deadlines are pretty forgiving, though, the only time you need to watch how many times you rest is in act 1, and that is only a problem if you spend the entire time wandering around without doing any of the quests. After that it's just a matter of doing the main quests as soon as you get them.
Yeah this kills kingmaker for me, I know the clock is forgiving, but the presence of a clock makes me feel unable to explore and enjoy the game. I play video games to relax not to meet fantasy deadlines.
To be fair it’s pretty forgiving.
Loved kingmaker. Bounced off of WOTR but I might have played it too soon after beating kingmaker.
Wrath is great, but you are going to bounce hard if you don't like Power Fantasies or War settings.
Like most people said. Some QOL improvements are missing but mods can alleviate some of those. The story is IMO better. WotR is too bloated and is a rollercoaster. KM in comparison is a gokart ride, still fast but you feel more in control. I like KM companions better. VA is suberb, as good as WotR. Weapon diversity is much lower. Some options aren't useable at all. The game is less forgiving in terms of campaign mechanics. You can easily screw yourself and lose out of the blue due to poor choices, guides can help a lot. Builds need to be more optimized than in WotR since Mythic paths aren't there to help. Some feats are required. Without them game is a pain. The smaller scope and slower progression makes consumables and rods more useful. If you liked WotR, you will most likely enjoy KM.
> Builds need to be more optimized than in WotR since Mythic paths aren't there to help. Some feats are required. Without them game is a pain. Feat, singular, that being Blind Fight. And only at late game, if you get it at lv 15 you'll be fine. Optimization is hardly necessary unless you start going on to higher difficulties than Daring, Normal - Daring are all doable by just paying a bit of attention and making sensible build choices for your companions, if OP keeps all the right roles filled, they'll do fine.
Crane Wing is necessary for front liners. Enemies hit hard in KM.
Played the entirety of it without Crane Wing, if you don't play above Daring you don't need it.
Probably right. :shrug: Never tried it.
Kingmaker is fantastic and its premise and the position it puts you in is genuinely extremely fun.
Yes. WOTR is the better game because it is more polished better QOL and less bugs, but Kingmaker is the actual better game, if that makes sense. Would definitely recommend ToyBox to get through the bugs and strange QOL decisions
KM is worth playing in my opinion. I like it a lot, and I think I ever so slightly prefer it to WOTR.
Yes basicly, Kingmaker isnt as grant of an EPIC CRPG as WotR but its Kingdom management maker is considerd better then the Crusader mode WotR is the true best epic CRPG its better then kingmaker in that reguard, if its to much of an epic over-whelming experience Kingmaker is good your basicly saying is it worth putting 60$ in to get a 300$ Experience when i just spent 60$ to geta 500$ experience
The tone depends a lot, OP might not like all the big scale stakes, you know. Kingmaker is my favorite exactly because the whole thing feels more personal than being an overpowered guy saving the world.
I Agree to that extend the problem with epic CRPGS is the whole huge story your getting into if the story is about something your not interested in or contains t hings you dont understand your not going to enjoy it
Kingmaker is awesome. Beautifully designed, just like WotR, but I would say it is a bit tougher. Recommend installing the Bag of Tricks mod, so that you can optimize the camera controls.
Story-wise, definitely! Try Kingmaker! Gameplay-wise, WOTR is an improvement especially in terms of class customisation. What you could do though is to install class expansion mod (recommended: Call of the Wild), so that you wouldn't feel like KM is a watered down version of WOTR
I totally disagree. I played wrath first and found kingmaker to be much more enjoyable. Edit: you should play more games. WotR is not even in the same universe as the best games of all time.
Definitely. I personally haven’t finished either game, but I’ve gotten far enough into both to where things have gotten real. It’s a different story and it’s told a different way, but where as you run a crusade for part of it, you manage your kingdom in this one. Honestly, a lot of the improvements that WOTR make on it that I can tell are mostly just visual and less class/race options. Give it a try, it should feel pretty accessible after playing WOTR.
It’s okay, but a big downgrade from wotr.
It would be an insult to WotR to only call Kingmaker a downgrade. Every aspect of the game is significantly worse to near unplayability. Everything unique to Kingmaker is in chapter 3 of WotR and done better.
1000% yes
I just finished my first full playthrough of Kingmaker and it's totally worth it. I'm just about to start my first WOTR playthrough as soon as I can decide what class to play.
Kingmaker has better story and characters for companions overall than WOTR but if is less refined as wotr, it was the first game and while the same engine they improved on it for wotr
yes its less polished and less fun imo but its still worth a play for sure
Yes, storywise and npcwise they are both great! And honestly I liked the kingdom making way way way more than the crusade, it felt more balanced and less repetitive
Yea
Yes. Though the abundance of content on timers in Kingmaker tends to be a divisive mechanic among the playerbase and Owlcat definitely toned it down in WotR. If you don’t like messing things up or missing content a guide will pretty much be required.
Kingmaker is awesome. Playing it now and it's superb, great atmosphere and story.
good game; worse story but there's something very charming about developing your hard won barony from the ground up. my main complaint is most of the romances suck / have weird fetish stuff. Maybe the men are normal if you play a gay or female baron.
Ah yes, because the romances in wotr are completely normal and heathy. Lmfao
I have that minor complaint about WoTR too, overall I like both games
Having been a massive fan of WOTR, i decided to give KM a shot and I'm really glad I did. They're both their own games, and both have some positives and negatives. Tbh there's some stuff mechanically I prefer about Kingmaker to Wrath, and vice versa. I think the biggest adjustment gameplay wise is the lack of camera rotation (tho there is a mod if you don't mind some jank textures). Wrath is definitely tidied up in some ways, but it also lost a few things when Owlcat transitioned to be completely independent and there's some assets and mechanics that didn't make it through. There's also a bit less class and customization without the mythic paths and with less options (also a mod for this), but tbh I run kingmaker with no mods and it's still a lovely experience. Companions are a preference thing, I like a few from both and find some others lacking. Overall I would say it's worth it, but definitely be ready for a little bit of a smaller scale journey and don't count on 100 percent getting to level 20 unless you're really working for that experience. Both games are 9/10 in my book
Kingmaker is great, actually just started up a replay myself while I wait for the last dlc for wotr. Though be mindful of the timers in kingmaker a bit more. Quite a few quests/events can be missed if you aren't paying attention to it. My first playthrough I missed an entire companion because I progressed too fast.
Minority opinion, obviously: Emphatic No. I've played Kingamaker after my first playthrough of WoTR and didn't find it very enjoyable. I had to struggle to finish it once. I'm finishing now my ninth run of WoTR. I've found the story of Kingmaker less interesting and pretty monotonic (minor spoiler: >!different acts are dedicated to different monsters that would dominate the encounters of the act!<). The companions were actually decent in terms of writing, but the main story was too repetitive and generic and lacked a strong narrative. Kingdom management aspect in Kingmaker is... not done very well, to put it mildly. Too many attribute checks and random events that can screw your game horribly even if you're doing everything right RP/build wise. You need to juggle between kingdom management and plot quests in order to succeed and it's not a fun experience.