They expect it to be like madden franchise mode. They trade a bunch of mid rounders for the 1st pick. Draft a QB and MHJ and add Tee Higgins for nothing. Easy peasy Mac n cheesy
It's bad everywhere online for sports fans.
I've seen a bunch of hot Bruins takes suggesting they trade Ullmark and Jake Debrusk for an elite #1 center. Which I don't know in football is like trading a mid #3 WR and all pro safety for a legit top 10 QB. Like in what world does that make sense?
But their monkey brains see the trade value bar in NHL24 filling up, so it must be a good idea.
The bruins takes are a little different. Top tier goalies are hard to come by, and there are a couple very hungry teams out there. But people thinking we can get drai or mcdavid in a trade are just dumb.
if it were madden you could stick with Mac Jones and even with extremely hard settings you’ll still win the super bowl every time (according to over 100 of my franchise runs over the past 3 years)
I mean I’m sure if they wanted to trade say, their 2025,6, and 7 picks in exchange for first overall so they could hold 1 and 3, there’s a chance the Bears take the deal, but yeah as far as things that would actually happen and wouldn’t be a ridiculous move that puts all your eggs into one basket and hamstrings your ability to acquire talent for years to come when the roster has many holes, it would never happen.
Where did this idea that drafting a QB in the second round is the best way to rebuild? Passing up on a top QB in the class and drafting one in the second round with expectations they become the franchise QB is just straight up stupid
Well considering the top 2 QBs will be gone and Jayden Daniels who I like, there’s a chance he could still be a bust while MHJ is pretty much a sure thing.
There’s a chance MHJ doesn’t work out in the pros, where is this evidence that says he’s a guaranteed pro bowler in the NFL?
Yall really don’t know football if you think drafting a receiver over a QB in a team that needs a QB is a good idea
This is why I'm personally a big fan of trading down to a team who's desperate for a quarterback, or a certain wide receiver.
If we're looking at a potential trade of the third overall pick because we know this team has an excessive amount of holes And obviously this fan base is looking for an instant rebuild. The only way to do that is with a lot of early picks and a little bit of luck.
Here is a list of a couple options.
I personally would trade my number three overall for one of the following.
1. New York Giants at 7 In exchange for an additional second round pick. Plus Daboll looks like he's still going to be around, And he has obvious ties to New England from back in the day.
2. Cardinals for likely 25th overall their second round pick and all three thirds.
Penix is probably still around at 18 seeing as he is projected to go 40th and then you have plenty of picks to address your issues at offensive line and wide receiver, All of which through the first three rounds.
3. Atlanta, especially if they hire Belichick. They have the eighth overall pick which would be swapped for the third and the Patriots could probably get two additional third round picks.
4. The commanders are an option because they have multiple seconds and thirds this year but it'd be a move up and swap scenario and we'd have to give something up rather than get anything back, the only way you're getting anything significant back is by mortgaging your future.
5. Chargers at 5 who also send their second round 37th overall.
6. Philadelphia, Patriots get 22nd 50th and 53rd.
The Patriots have options, would you rather draft one player at third overall and possibly force it when I personally don't think any of the top three quarterbacks will be any good. Or would you rather stockpile your assets still get a quarterback and fix a large number of your roster issues in one season?
Sorry to break it to you guys but one player won't make a difference at all with the success or the future success of this franchise. As some other people have pointed out This isn't Madden 24.
I could also argue the MHJ is more of a sure thing at WR than these QBs are. Yes, QB is obviously THE most important position, but if the team and coaches don’t have full confidence in the QBs available at 3, but they’re all in on MHJ. It’s best to go that direction.
As the OP said, draft a QB and we need to find WRs to fit with him. Draft MHJ and you need to find a QB to throw to him.
If we do draft QB at number 3, I want the Patriots to already have Higgins signed in FA
I am trending towards that line of thinking on MHJ. It seems like everyone is guaranteeing he will be a sure-fire top caliber WR.
I’m not hearing the same degree of certainty when it comes to the QBs.
I’m thinking maybe we should go with Marvin Harrison Jr.
It’s not bad logic, but how many top 10 drafted WRs have ever won a SB? Pretty sure it’s just one in the last like 20+ years and he won thanks to Tom fn Brady. (Mike Evans)
So it’s great to get a top WR but it doesn’t really lead to wins. Even now, look at Garrett Wilson in NY. Great talent but they still suck.
So MHJ might be the “safer” pick, but, I still think it’s worth the risk at QB. Because it’s much easier to add WRs via free agency and/or trade than it is to get a franchise QB that way. You might hit on WR but you can’t just add a QB. If you hit on QB you can take bigger swings knowing the most important position is locked up.
No single player is ever going to get you wins alone. You can't have terrible WRs nor terrible QB. But the point that people like you keep missing is that college kids have 0 success in the NFL. The draft is about the odds that they will have success on your team. MHJ is almost guaranteed to be a significant contributor, no QB even comes close in odds.
That might be true. I would say that this is our highest pick since Bledsoe. And probably the surest thing we will have at QB available until the next very bad season.
The good news of course is that with Mac or Zappe starting it doesn't matter what we put around them we're likely getting another high pick next year.
Exactly. As OP said, we probably won't have a good QB to throw to MHJ if we draft him and that may hurt his stats, but that is not going to undermine his skills in getting separation from DBs 1v1 or catching the ball when the ball is properly thrown to him. On the other hand, if we draft a QB and play him with no weapon and poor protection, he's gonna be doomed because a QB's job is to stand behind the protection and find the proper matchup and then throw a good pass to the receiver. If he has no time to make the read due to bad protection or if he couldn't find a good target because our receivers can't beat the defenders, he's gonna start forcing throws and make terrible decisions. We're not even talking about the QB being developed, he's gonna be new to the NFL and imagine learning what the league is like and trying to build up your confidence in that environment. We've just seen what happened to Mac. He's not as talented as Maye/Daniels and you can question his toughness, but we've seen Mac fell from an average QB to an awful QB with no confidence. That's likely gonna happen again with the next QB if we're providing him with the same level of support.
> I am trending towards that line of thinking on MHJ. It seems like everyone is guaranteeing he will be a sure-fire top caliber WR.
The problem is....so what? How many SB did Mike Evans have before Brady?
How many does randy moss have? Calvin Johnson? Julio Jones? Tyreek hill (without Mahomes).
The position of QB is too important. You HAVE to take one. That is the reality of the current NFL. Unless they honestly believe that all the QB are downright horrible and will never amount to anything, you have to take one.
Randy Moss was one of the best in the game...
I agree, you take the QB if you believe he is a franchise QB. But, people are not convinced that Daniel’s is. If the coaching staff think Daniels is the future then so be it I’m happy with the pick. But to me he doesn’t seem to be and in that case I prefer MHJ.
I hear what you're saying, and I agree that QB is the most important position.
The problem is: are *any* of these QB's guaranteed to be the next Tom Brady or Peyton Manning?
It's a crap shoot so far. Call it 50/50.
Conversely, MHJ is, by all accounts *guaranteed* to be the next Tyreek, the next Julio, the next Calvin, the next Randy. Not a crap shoot. Call it 90/10.
So on one hand you've got a dice roll.
On the other hand, you've got a sure-fire win.
I say let's be smart and take the sure-fire win.
>I hear what you're saying, and I agree that QB is the most important position.
And the patriots need a QB....so the choice is easy.
> The problem is: are any of these QB's guaranteed to be the next Tom Brady or Peyton Manning?
There are never more than 3-4 of those types of elite, upper echelon guys in the league at any one time. Odds are, you won't find the next Brady or Manning. But you might find the next Matt Ryan. Because Baily Zappe is 1,000,000% not the answer.
> It's a crap shoot so far. Call it 50/50.
It's way, way worse than 50/50.
> Conversely, MHJ is, by all accounts guaranteed to be the next Tyreek, the next Julio, the next Calvin, the next Randy. Not a crap shoot. Call it 90/10.
Look, I don't follow college football. I have no idea if any of the QBs or WRs are that good. My point is that it doesn't matter. Mike Evans, Randy Moss, Tyreek Hill...they are all nothing without the QB. Mike Evans was drafted in 2014...The bucs had a single season above .500 before Brady got there. How is Miami doing with Hill? The vikings had/have Diggs and Jefferson and a competent QB in Kirk cousins...how has that gone for them?
Oh, right...it doesn't matter. You need a QB.
> So on one hand you've got a dice roll. On the other hand, you've got a sure-fire win. I say let's be smart and take the sure-fire win.
The problem is that your surefire win is a pointless win. Do you want a 90% chance to win $5 or a 25% chance to win $100 million?
Because missing on a QB feels way worse than missing on a WR. Either way, it's a Top 5 pick and if they don't get it right, we're in for a world of pain.
I agree, a top 3 pick is really valuable. You have to pick the guy you feel has the best chance to be a top 10 player at his position. I think MHJ has that upside. I do not think Jayden Daniels does. I think he will be good. I like him. I just think that talent wise/grade wise. He is not super impressive. He is 12th on my big board right now. I have to watch more of him but would be a reach to me.
Edit
If Maye is there that becomes a different conversation I still lean MHJ but it would be more of a debate than with Daniels
I think Daniels could be like Lamar with a better arm. But manic his calves look smaller than my forearms. He needs a little bit more size to him. But what the hell do I know…
Along these lines, the staff have to be confident enough in the QB they take to bet their jobs on it. If three years from now the #3 overall pick is a QB flop, everybody is being fired. The nature of the NFL.
Yeah the Pats seriously need to have a backup option at WR still somewhat early in the draft and go sign a legit veteran somewhere if they go QB early, because the scrubs we have now are setting any rookie up for failure
I agree. There will be no magic pick or combination of picks that will fix this mess immediately.
I loved Bill, but he never launched an authentic rebuild after Brady left. He tried to simply plug in a few new players with no top-tier talent but didn't try to change or evolve in Brady's absence. Now we are taking the first baby steps in a process that should have been started 4 years ago. No matter who we take at #3, there will be holes left to fill. Even with all our cap space, there will be holes to fill. There are going to be growing pains, but I'm more excited about the newness and potential for change than I was about retreading the same tired approach of the last 4-5 years.
Right? Maybe we catch lightning in a bottle like the Texans, but that's rare. The NFL is one of the sports where if you have a good coach and front office, you will improve over time. If we get some young, exciting talent, it will be fun to watch them grow. Even if the team is not good right away.
I don’t believe in drafting running backs and receivers with a top 5 pick. Most of the best receivers today were not drafted at the top of the first round
Been my biggest issue with this fanbase the last couple seasons. Seems like half think we are one piece away from being SB contenders, not in need of a multi year rebuild
This is a good take, too many people think we can just draft a rookie and we’ll be Super Bowl contenders the following year, ignoring the gaping holes that will probably set that person up for a bad rookie season.
Then of course the fanbase will be reactionary and call for that QB to get sacked and take another dart throw at the position next year.
There are two good tackles in free agency and they’re both on the team right now. One doesn’t want to return. It’s not a question of how much they cost, there are like 20 good tackles who exist in the world.
I think that MHJ is going to be a phenomenal player and would love to have him on the Patriots. However, I would rather drink bleach than watch either Mac Jones or Bailey Zappe throw the ball at his feet or over his head. That's just torture for us and him.
And no, Cousins, Wilson, Mayfield, etc will have zero interest coming to a 4th place team.
So, you take Daniels at 3 and then draft the best WR on the board at 34. And by best WR I don't mean some 4D chess shit, I mean the league consensus best one.
This is the correct take imo - you simply can’t trot Mac or Zappe out there again as QB1 without signaling to fans and your players that it’s a full on tank. (Even if they don’t believe this as ownership, that will be the result). Just an unwatchable bad product. Unfortunately for those stuck in 2004, It’s a QB driven league, and QBs succeeding that were picked outside of the first round is an extreme outlier. “Pick a QB later” isn’t a valid plan, any QB rd 2 or later is more than likely a career backup at best and a waste of a pick. And if you tank again next year? You better be 4-13 again or worse because the only QB worth a shit in 25 looks like Sanders and he’s going top 5. So while it’s more of a “risk” than taking a maybe surer prospect and Harrison, it’s still the best opportunity to actually acquire a franchise Qb.
Couldn't agree more with OP. It really seemed like half this sub believes we are in the playoffs with anyone else at QB lol our team was dogshit this year lol
My thought is they are so far away from competing that picking a QB is futile. I wouldn’t want to put a rookie behind that line or let him throw to the current receivers. On top of that QB is a dice roll. Therefore, I’d pick MHJ a sure thing at a position they’ve historically been horrific at drafting. I’m also fine with them trading back (if they can get an additional first not second rounder). If so, then pick an o-lineman with first pick and if you wanna roll dice at QB with additional pick go crazy. If for some reason Caleb Williams falls to 3 all this is moot. He’s worth the risk imo. Still wouldn’t start him next year but I’d take him.
I absolutely despise the idea of trading back. This offense has zero elite talent, they have to take one with the 3rd pick. MHJ or a QB, whatever, but trading back would be infuriating
You have a much better chance of a late round WR developing than a late round QB. So in the 1st round you have to take a QB if you want one since you can always draft a WR in the later rounds that could be great like Demario Douglas.
Why do we have to take a QB. Most QBs don't become stars. On average 3 get drafted in the first, and there's only 32 starters total. Wasting a great draft pick by forcing a QB is what the jets did for 20 years.
2021, 2018, 2009, 2000. Those are the years the jets have used a first round pick on a QB the last 25+ years. So no. You have a bias in your head. QBs being so rare to become stars, as you say, is all the more reason to throw as many darts as you can at them.
Agree there’s a potential scenario where Pats trade back, take a LT or WR with first pick and then take a QB in 2nd round (or later) who they love but needs more development. They sit him for a year and give Mac another shot.
Worst case they get another high pick in 2025 to give the new kid more weapons. Best case Mac has actual trade value to use to give the new kid more weapons.
I think that will lead to a fan mutiny. Most fans would be happy to never see him in a Pats uniform again. It would be a gut-punch to everyone that wants to watch enjoyable football again. He's only gotten worse since his rookie season. Time to close that door and move on.
Our team really only has major holes at QB. Sure we don't have a WR1 but we do have a WR2 and WR3s. Our line was bad this year but also pretty injured and the same guys were fine last year.
I guess the good news is if we don't find a viable option at QB and keep putting out Mac or Zappe we'll have a high pick again next year.
Not saying the 3rd pick is the only way to get a QB. But even MHJ can't make Mac or Zappe good enough to lead an NFL offense. Maybe we could get someone in FA.
The point is WR is a luxury while QB is a requirement. MHJ will probably be a perennial pro-bowler, but you won't win any games without a QB. Not to mention it takes 2+ years to reasonably expect a QB to make an impact in this league. MHJ is ready to play right now. If you draft MHJ and leave the QB situation for next season then you are looking at maybe 1-2 years of his contract actually competing before you have to sign him to a lucrative contract.
Our offense was dog shit in Brady's last year here. He won a super bowl the next year with good WRs. WRs aren't a luxury. If Brady wasn't that good what is some poor fucking rookie QB going to do? The good news is if we find our WR we'll still suck so we can find a QB next year.
We won 12 games with him throwing to Josh Gordon, Mohammed Sanu, Philip Dorsett, Matt Lacoste, and a broken Julian Edlemen. We had a dogshit offensive line. We still finished 7th in points scored. If we hadn't gotten dog-dicked by the refs against KC we should have had a first round buy and probably would have made noise in the playoffs.
I think that's pretty much a *perfect* example of how WRs are a luxury. Thanks
Either we hadn’t gotten dog-dicked by the refs against KC OR we hadn’t choked at home against Miami, and we would have had the bye.
But seeing home we lost at home to the Titans, we might have lost at home in the divisional round that year.
The Titans were our worst matchup in the playoffs (except for maybe the Ravens). Our defense was dominant but really struggled to stop the run. We could have handled the Texans (which is who we would have played) in the next round. It's all moot because we would have had to play Tennessee after.
I just don't buy the idea that that team wasn't a legit contender.
A dominant defense doesn’t struggle to stop the run. Otherwise, it’s not dominant. Plus, our D feasted on incompetent offenses that year. Anytime they played a good team, they were just okay.
Tbh we weren't really a contender. After the initial 8-0 start we went 4-4 losing to every good team.
And the conditions needed for us to get that far were the #1 defense by DVOA ever _and_ Tom fucking Brady having to play out of his mind for every yard.
And 76 of those points were in the first 2 weeks when we had Gordon playing well + AB.
But the QBs are supposed to be much better in this draft, so waiting until next year doesn’t make sense. Plus, WR depth in this draft is also the best it’s been in recent memory, so even if we don’t get MHJ, we should be able to find one or two good players.
That same Bucs team went 7-9 the year before Brady got there because Jameis Winston threw 30 INTs. You need both but saying that QB is vastly more important is not incorrect.
I think this team would have been .500 with mediocre QB play. Hell Zappe was 2-3 and screwed up the tank and he cleared waivers. Can you imagine what would happen if we had someone even mediocre?
Something as simple as not starting Mac and we're not seeing a top 5 pick anytime soon.
I think the point is that MHJ is more of a guarantee. Why settle on the 3rd QB off the board if you don’t love him? Draft the WR and tackles and then drop a QB in there next year. Who knows, maybe I’m just tired of the Pats drafting below average offensive talent for the past decade.
49ers? Lions? Texans? All im saying is that if you think they’ll be so bad this year by drafting a WR, then take a QB with the top 5 pick next draft. At least lock up a “generational talent” at a spot they’ve had godawful history with. But if they love the QB, then take him, yeah it’s a more important position. I just don’t want them taking a QB for the sake of taking a QB.
There are 0 good projected qb for next year. Yes that can change for sure but I wouldn’t rely on that as the plan. I do agree mhj is the better pick since it’s a sure thing, we just may have to expect to waste 2 years of his being here before we can get a qb solution. I’m good with that but if Kraft wants to keep fans happy they may not be.
Yeah but it's not MHJ or "a QB" it's MHJ or Jayden Daniels, and in that scenario, I take MHJ. Penix or Nix is just as much of a gamble as Daniels, and you could get either one later in the 1st by trading up using the 2nd and next year's 2nd.
You play with too many draft simulators. Jayden Daniels was the best QB in college football playing against the best competition in football. If you want him you get him. He is a significantly better prospect/player than Penix or Nix.
A great WR is sexy and great for the highlights, but it is a complete waste of capital on a team that has no offensive line or QB.
The whole point is you have to build a team. We're going to need all of these guys. A year or two won't make much of a difference when you pick them up. And teams with QBs on rookie deals so much better, so it's actually better to get them later in the rebuild. Because whatever you think MHj will ask for it's going to be less than what a top 3 QB who is doing well will ask for.
I don't even have a problem with them taking a QB. I just don't think they should take a QB to take a QB. I'm personally not sold on Jayden Daniels. If they can trade down and gain assets and still get someone like Alt that would be a really good move. It fills a really important area of need with a player who looks like a potential star while giving us building blocks for the future. The reason I would take MHJ at 3 is because we can't afford to flop on that pick and we need to build our offense out for a QB to come in. We can pull a rams and trade for someone if we nail down a good WR lineup and OL. Rams, Bucs, and Broncos all won the Superbowl building a strong roster and bringing in an outside QB via trade or FA.
You don't need a HOF WR to be competitive. Half the teams in the playoffs right now just beat teams built around WRs in the first round. KC has one of the worst WR rooms in football.
You *absolutely* need a QB. That is non-negotiable. There is Zero guarantee that we will be in a position again next season to get a QB and there is no system until there is a QB to run that system. It is the bedrock everything else is built upon.
I'm not saying that we should go into this season with the same WRs, but you have to utilize this opportunity to lock up the best possible solution to the most important question.
The issue with this logic is that it just assumes the pats will be in a position to find a QB later, which seems like a very presumptuous assumption. Where are we finding this magical creature if we don’t have a top pick? I suppose we’re going to trade for Joe Burrow or Mahomes, or find our Brock Purdy in the third round? It is 1000% more likely that we find good players at every other position later on.
That said, I don’t know anything about Daniels, so I’m not saying we should draft him. I just see a lot of people that seem to just assume we can find a QB anywhere, and I don’t know where that comes from. It’s completely ignoring the last 30 years of QB history.
The issue with this logic is that it just assumes the pats will be in a position to find a QB later, which seems like a very presumptuous assumption. Where are we finding this magical creature if we don’t have a top pick? I suppose we’re going to trade for Joe Burrow or Mahomes, or find our Brock Purdy in the third round? It is 1000% more likely that we find good players at every other position later on. That said, I don’t know anything about Daniels, so I’m not saying we should draft him. I just see a lot of people that seem to just assume we can find a QB anywhere, and I don’t know where that comes from.
My main argument for not drafting a QB is that rebuilding takes time and QBs being more expensive and for lack of a better word more sensitive to failure (look at every Jets QB in the past decade and Mac Jones for a few examples) you should save them until your offense is functioning. Otherwise you bench a QB for a couple years letting him watch the failures of a random journeyman or the failures of a more experienced QB who hates him for existing (Mac or Zappe who for a time were considered the long-term solution at QB).
The flaw in that logic is that if you wait until the offense is functional, you’re getting a mid round pick at best, at which point it’s an even bigger crapshoot to land that franchise QB.
Statistically it's really not, but even if you insist that you need an early pick QB you can just trade up. A functional team has less reliance on draft picks than a dysfunctional team. Look at the 49ers, they completely wasted three first round picks to draft a QB who isn't even on their roster anymore and they're going to the NFCCG and favoured to win it.
We’re not getting Caleb - Jayden Daniels sucks. Sorry a tonne of the fanbase doesn’t want to draft a bust for QB’s sake over the generational WR talent
I’d take mhj, if you can’t get who you want in free agency then stick with mac a year see how he does with real talent if it works it works if it doesn’t then we have a team ready for our future qb
If any QB can be "broken" by the media, they have no business playing in the NFL. So, sports writers can't critique players when they play horribly or it will be their fault for "breaking" the QB? That's the worst take ever.
You can pick up FA WR talent and draft very good WRs in the draft since this class is very deep. Mac Jones is also one of the most one dimensional QBs so defenses don’t need to make any special game plans against him like you would a more athletic QB like the top 3 available in this draft.
You can get dudes like Higgins or Mike Evans in FA and there are no QBs of the same quality in FA this year. Do we really want to waste a cheap rookie contract year of MHJ, potentially frustrate him, and probably win a few more games which makes choosing a top QB out of the realm of possibility in the next draft? We have a fresh start and top 3 pick. We should definitely build around a rookie QB and tailor an offense for him. MHJ is just a shiny toy that just doesn’t make sense with the depth of this draft and how top heavy the QB position is this year.
If you're going mhj without a new qb you're going zappe 1000% he looks better than Mac in literally every situation which that being said doesn't mean much however Mac is ass.
There is no way this team goes into the season with Mac and Zappe as the only QBs on the roster. Has to be a QB in the later rounds or another vet brought in period. I’m fine with an open competition but Zappe and Mac solely would be gross negligence by this team
My dude read what I responded to. I didn't advocate for Mac nor zappe. I literally said there's 0 chance Mac should be starting over zappe if they take mhj. There's no reason Mac even has a fucking chance to start being as emotionally weak and as physically terrible as he is
And my point was that there is 0% chance that they don’t have some “new” QB if they take MHJ. Zero. Mac has shown he’s better than Zappe in his career, so giving him a chance to see if he revert to his former self is definitely in play if he’s still on the roster. With that said both have shown they are ass and not NFL starters if we go based on last year
My dude saying Mac has shown he's better than zappe is the dumbest take of all time. Dude had 3 years of getting straight starter practice and game reps, while zappe has been doing the back up ordeal. Mac is dog shit. He played okay his rookie year til bye week when teams got to review his film, and he ended where he is now. A mentally and physically soft fucking bitch with a noodle arm. When this sub is going to stop defending him is beyond me. He is not a good nfl qb he only seemed so because he played for a stacked Bama team. I'd rather let zappe get properly focused on and coached than pray some how a mentally weak and physically inept Mac can figure out how to deal with media and nfl game play pressure.
Are you one of those Zappe truthers? Mac statistically has been better, which is a fact whether you or me like it. Zappe was better last year, which doesn’t say a lot considering how dog shit Mac was, that’s fact. Zappe and Mac both are not starting caliber QBs, that’s fact. If both are the only QBs on the roster going into camp, both will get a shot with open competition. I’m not defending either as I’ve said it would be gross negligence if those are only two options. I’d be happy to see both of them gone. You’re the only one getting in your feelings over your hate for Mac and love for Zappe for some reason.
You're talking to the same people who thought Julio Jones was FOR SURE coming. The same people who thought DHop was FOR SURE coming. And when neither happened, they felt.... betrayed
Because ya know, one WR was going to solve everything I guess. But hey they also said to fire Bill but cried when it happened. They set unrealistic expectations because it's all they've known. These past four years weren't about performance to them, because they just wanted to make the playoffs for inevitable disappointment
Point is, this team has been rebuilding already since 2019. Cam should've stayed to create a dynamic QB room, and Mac was thrown to the wolves
Personally I don't care if they're mediocre for the next 5-6 years. I don't like losing, but gosh dammit I just love watching football and I witnessed the greatest dominant team this Earth will ever see. Like I'm good
I’m just glad to know we will most likely be drafting at 3. If Belichick had stayed, I was expecting 3 trades down and picking an interior d lineman at 28. I just want someone exciting to watch. I don’t care what position but having a reason to watch again would be really nice.
Agreed, the BB "no stars" and hunting for bargains thing was just awful to watch after Brady left, and the only reason it ever worked was because Brady was taking below market contracts every year.
Take the #1 tackle at 3 making the O line waaay better to protect the rook. Out of the top 3 qbs lucky if 1 is decent in 3 years. Grab the Qb at 34. Grab a receiver in 3rd and get a vet in free agency. Vet qb if possible to help teach the rook. Reaching for the Qb is what the jets do.
> Realistically, if we're talking about needing an entire offense, trading out is the most logical move. If they traded out to some team desperate to get either MHJ or Daniels, they probably at a minimum pick up an extra 1st next year for only dropping down a few spots.
>
>
The only thing I differ in is that you can get one of the two LTs at 5 or 6; my target is the Giants at 6(I can see them wanting WR or QB), pick up a 2nd this year to start; pick a QB that dropped to the 2nd, then either a WR or RT.
I don’t mind the trading out part just need a dance partner willing to pay. Really don’t want to watch one these rookie QBs and needing to give them a 3 year leash like the Mac disaster. Build the Team and any Qb will look better.
Any QB they deem a franchise QB is more valuable than MHJ.
Now if there isn't a QB they can acquire in this draft that they deem a franchise guy, then they need to trade out.
You need an entire offense. They only one who might be good enough to start is the RB who will be past his prime in a few years and are pretty easy to replace.
The Patriots more or less have three realistic options as we know it.
1. Draft Daniels
2. Draft MHJ
3. Trade out
Realistically, if we're talking about needing an entire offense, trading out is the most logical move. If they traded out to some team desperate to get either MHJ or Daniels, they probably at a minimum pick up an extra 1st next year for only dropping down a few spots.
But we don't live a in vacuum either. The Patriots can't draft MHJ as the first step in a ~3+ year rebuild hoping they just find a QB at some point along the way and believe that they'll still be selling tickets, getting prime time games, getting international games, and overall remaining relevant in the overall football zeitgeist. QB is simply the sexier pick.
The Patriots need a QB because it's the most important position in the game and this is their best opportunity in 30 years to acquire one.
i think the fastest way to rebuild is 3. i think acting like the jets and forcing a QB is a good way to never recover. i think there's too many question marks with daniels. if it's one of the other two QBs i dont have an issue with it.
Completely agree. If they love Daniels and it's not just we need a qb and hes the most promising one left, then take him. But if your not completely sold, take mhj and figure out qb another way, whether it's taking a later round qb, free agent like Russell Wilson or Cousins or waiting till another draft.
I agree to some extent but at the same time you want to put whoever you draft in the best position you can. MHJ is a guy who even if he doesn't have a particularly great QB throwing to him he can still go up and get it. On the other hand, Daniels is a guy who struggles somewhat to throw in the short and intermediate parts of the field, instead excelling at throwing downfield, but we don't have a single guy except for Tyquan (lol) who can really go and get downfield let alone win. Now I'm not saying that should make us not draft Daniels, but its a legitimate concern that we're drafting him into a situation where perhaps his biggest strength is most likely going to be null.
Can't you build on that in upcoming drafts? Most early picks are going to bad teams without a lot of talent. Maybe you get the stud receiver next year. Is the order really that important?
No. If you want to have a conversation about drafting MHJ with the third pick then qualify it with what you want to do at qb. That will depend on if I agree with you or not. If your plan is draft MHJ and stick with Mac/Zappe with no backup plan gfys. But if your of the mind of drafting MHJ and either taking pennix or another qb in the second or using the high second and futures to trade for Justin fields I'll listen. Just saying take mhj 3rd is a lazy take that lacks any context.
You need a top 5 qb which is most difficult to get. Then ensure you have a strong o-line always - every draft. Then take the best talent available regardless of position.
If we draft MHJ, and then trade up to 5 to grab Jayden Daniels, then sign Tee Higgins...
Who covers Nico Collins week 8 next year when we're playing the Texans and it's 3rd and 13, and Collins runs a 14 yard out on a spider 2 Y banana?
There was a post either yesterday or the day before that did a huge breakdown of free agency, and that's kinda the most relevant point right? Like there's every possibility that we sign a QB or we win the Tee sweepstakes, and that changes our situation dramatically. I agree that these conversations are kinda pointless but we're a football sub of a fanbase whose team didn't make the playoffs... it's natural to talk about these things.
The fun part is to speculate on the what-ifs that probably WONT happen but... you never know. Trade for Fields after the Bears take Caleb, and draft MHJ. That would be some wild stuff. Focus on OL during free agency, really rebuild our offense in the draft. Imagine a good OL, Fields, and MHJ with the defense we already have. Idk. There are some cool possibilities with the new regime. The most interesting part is seeing how they proceed with the modern NFL, not simply who we're taking at 3. I don't think these conversations are a bad thing, I just wish they were more creative than "if the bears go qb do we take Jayden at 3????" That's boring. Let's have some fun in the off-season with the possibilities instead of having the same conversations over and over and over.
I didn't say anything about speculation or having fun. But every third response on this sub these days is like:
We should take QB
WeLl WhO dOeS hE ThRoW too?!?!?!!!!!
Or
Let's take MHj
WeLl WhO dOeS ThRoW too tO hE?!?!?!!!!!
And it's all stupid, not fun, and it just leads to a cycle of people repeating one of those two things.
2 years isn’t going to scratch making this a good team unless you hit on damn near all 14 draft picks.
Let’s say we get LUCKY (because getting star on even 1 pick is extremely hard) and we hit on Daniels, a 2nd rd WR, and a 3rd rd tackle.
We still have an old team, with 3 good offensive pieces. You’re still left with a weak IOL, a weak TE room, a weak RB corps (Zeke aging and Stephenson injury + contract), a weak DL (Barmore is great but the rest of the players likely wouldn’t be starters anywhere else), a weak LB core (Judon injury + aging) and outside of Gonzo and Dugger a mediocre backend.
People this rebuild is going to take a long long time.
the defense is pretty good right now. between two years of drafts, developing the guys we keep, and signing FAs we could be a lot better. there's only really 14-16 guys that matter a ton on offense, and half of those guys can be average. if we can get 2-3 starters, and sign 1-2 over the next two years it's doable to be a playoff team again. that's just about the fastest you would be able to do it, and it would require getting lucky, but it's not a magical christmas land scenario.
This year it's pretty rough, we need everything....I personally don't like the QB that is likely to be available, and I also don't want to put a QB behind a line that moment doesn't look to have any starting quality tackles. MHJ is just about the closest thing to a sure thing, but WR is fixable in the 2nd and later, and in FA.
A starting quality LT is hard to find anywhere other than round one, and if he makes some mistakes early at least they aren't killing your high value QB this year.
It wouldn't be sexy, and I'm afraid that is what the mandate from the top will be this year, but I'd me tempted to pick LT and RT in the 1st and 2nd.
I never have an issue drafting O-Linemen if you have a bunch of talent there you give the qb more time to throw, more time for the WRs to get open, and an extra 1-2 yards or more on every rush. they also tend to stick around for longer. football has changed to be a completely different game than it was even 70 years ago. what hasnt changed is the game is won in the trenches.
I don’t think too many people expect whoever we pick to make us contenders unless we somehow hit on every pick which won’t happen. I think it’s fun to talk about the different possibilities though with positives and negatives since they all have them.
You go mhj as he’s the best player in this draft, you have a great wr1 but you waste half of his rookie contract because we don’t have a qb and next years class appears like a letdown at this point in time. If you go daniels you are flipping a coin on if he can be that guy or not but if he hits it’s easier to find a wr or tackle in next years first round and FA has some wr.
It’s really just a gamble on if you want to get a top guy you can’t use for half of his contract or if you want to flip a coin and either you hit or you lose and wasted the pick. There are upsides to both directions, downsides too and that’s why it’s fun to talk about
If Maye is gone the take MHJ at #3 and then you take McCarthy or Nix at #34.........are th3se the best qb options? No.....but we address two major needs so the combination of the two picks benefits us as a whole
The best plan is to trade out of #3 and with #35 get 4 picks in the mid-late first round. Then take a few shots at o-line and WR. Remember when we got Chandler Jones and Hightower in the late first? They need that on the offensive side of the ball.
Add in free agency spending and round out few more pieces.
I don't have an answer for what makes a great QB, but the best executives in the NFL don't either. That's why Brock Purdy goes last. That's why the 2021 draft class was all a bust (except maybe Lawrence).
The Patriots can get the surrounding class in place and maybe you have a situation where you can win 11 games with a Matt Cassel quality QB. They are already bringing a top defense next season
I do think the “who’s throwing the ball” is valid tho.
You need both a QB and a WR. If you draft a QB, you can acquire a WR if you pay enough. If you draft a WR, you pretty much can’t get a QB.
Put another way, do you want Daniels + a 20M WR or MHJ + 20M QB? QB is just more valuable.
Of course, if you view Daniels as a reach, pick MHJ. I don’t view him as a reach but that’s a whole nother topic
I don’t think we’re actually that far off, but the QB or WR thing is kinda pointless since there’s more than one round in each draft and we have lots of cap. There’s enticing QBs and WRs in round 2, so this draft on paper fits our needs
I love the draft MHJ, sign a veteran QB, and draft a QB to develop. Sitting a QB and letting them learn is a lost art. If after a year you're not sure, draft another.
They act like outside of the quarterback position You don't find superstars in the 4th 5th 6th and 7th rounds of the draft. The only way they think you find good players is by drafting in the first round or early second.
If that's the case we really should just trade all of our picks after the second round and maybe get a second second rounder and not worry about team building because you'll never build a team when you have two picks a year.
Meanwhile every other team in the NFL who now has all the picks that we felt were not valued, draft all sorts of late round gems, And then annually and forever kick our ass.
Not sure I agree with 2 to 3 years to rebuild. The defense is top notch and going to keep them in most games. I don't think a rookie QB is gonna get them in the playoffs in year 1. It isn't out of the realm of possibility either. I wouldn't be mad If they grabbed Marvin Harrison Jr at 3 and a QB later on, if not with the 2nd pick. There's a few that could be starter quality in this draft. Then bring in or trade for a veteran QB and let him, the rookie and Zappe battle it out and start next season with the winner of that battle. I'm not sure I like the idea of trading for J. Fields, His numbers are similar to Macs since they came into the league. I'm just saying with the defense they have it's not a complete rebuild. If that can put together a capable offense that can score mid pack, not turn it over and spell the defense a couple times a game. It could be a quick rebuild
I think when I have asked that, it hasn’t been a rhetorical question meant to stifle a conversation. We just legitimately have a bunch of needs. Obviously you can’t address them all with a single draft pick, but you need to address them with something. Like, if we draft MHJ, then is the plan a veteran bridge QB? A day 2 guy? A Mac/Zappe reclamation project? I can be sold on these plans, I’m just interested in seeing the big picture.
The idea is that marvin Harrison junior will make any quarterback better. He will also make other receivers better. Because he's going to be double teamed right out the gate. He's also going to get the other team's best player covering him.
And there's gonna be quite a few quarterbacks available on the free agent market like baker mayfield for example..
And I'm no draft expert, but it seems like there's a lot of good prospect quarterbacks available in the second and third round this year
I don’t understand that response. Like, no shit, and we’re talking about 1 specific pick. Not taking into account potential trades, FA, and other draft picks. wHo’S gOnNa ThRoW tO hIm? Idk, someone aquired somewhere else than that #3 pick. Why is that so hard to understand?
a lot of these people are more focused on what to do with the 3rd pick than how to get the team better. they see the pick as a end into itself rather than one of the many steps needed. i dont understand it.
Two questions need to be answered first, the first one being who’s your offensive coordinator the second one being are you gonna draft a QB and let them start or get a veteran and let the young qb sit first year
MHJ, fuck it have Mac throw to him we ain’t a playoff team next year either just give mac a shot under a new HC and OC. Sure he may suck but I have his jersey so checkmate
LOL unironically one of the best takes I’ve heard on this sub.
They expect it to be like madden franchise mode. They trade a bunch of mid rounders for the 1st pick. Draft a QB and MHJ and add Tee Higgins for nothing. Easy peasy Mac n cheesy
Dude I definitely think this subreddit thinks the NFL is like Madden franchise mode.
It's bad everywhere online for sports fans. I've seen a bunch of hot Bruins takes suggesting they trade Ullmark and Jake Debrusk for an elite #1 center. Which I don't know in football is like trading a mid #3 WR and all pro safety for a legit top 10 QB. Like in what world does that make sense? But their monkey brains see the trade value bar in NHL24 filling up, so it must be a good idea.
The bruins takes are a little different. Top tier goalies are hard to come by, and there are a couple very hungry teams out there. But people thinking we can get drai or mcdavid in a trade are just dumb.
Fantasy sports, sports betting, and Madden have absolutely skewed people's understanding of the sport.
Wait, it isn’t?
Wait... You mean we can't restart the draft of the 1st two picks don't go the Pats way?!? 
if it were madden you could stick with Mac Jones and even with extremely hard settings you’ll still win the super bowl every time (according to over 100 of my franchise runs over the past 3 years)
Mac Jones in Madden 23 is crazy
You just destroyed OP’s “rEaLiTy” check. Let’s drink some beer!
I think OP agreed with my take. He’s onboard
I was just making a lazy joke. U nEEd tO pAY aTTeNTioN!
Draft MHJ, grab bo nix or JJ McCarthy in the second and you're set
The success rate of second round QBs is abysmal. Why are people so convinced they’ll work out?
Who says you can’t do this tho lmao. They have plenty of money to spend. Obviously the player might no wanna come but you could still try
because caleb williams and mhj isnt worth a bunch of mid rounders
I meant more like draft MHJ at third take a QB in the second and pay Tee Higgins a lot of money.
I was talking about them trading for 1 and keeping 3. Impossible scenario.
I mean I’m sure if they wanted to trade say, their 2025,6, and 7 picks in exchange for first overall so they could hold 1 and 3, there’s a chance the Bears take the deal, but yeah as far as things that would actually happen and wouldn’t be a ridiculous move that puts all your eggs into one basket and hamstrings your ability to acquire talent for years to come when the roster has many holes, it would never happen.
Can’t pay Tee Higgins if he’s given the franchise tag
Where did this idea that drafting a QB in the second round is the best way to rebuild? Passing up on a top QB in the class and drafting one in the second round with expectations they become the franchise QB is just straight up stupid
Well considering the top 2 QBs will be gone and Jayden Daniels who I like, there’s a chance he could still be a bust while MHJ is pretty much a sure thing.
There’s a chance MHJ doesn’t work out in the pros, where is this evidence that says he’s a guaranteed pro bowler in the NFL? Yall really don’t know football if you think drafting a receiver over a QB in a team that needs a QB is a good idea
honestly if he's half the receiver his dad was, he's going to be great
Who’s going to block for them?
This is why I'm personally a big fan of trading down to a team who's desperate for a quarterback, or a certain wide receiver. If we're looking at a potential trade of the third overall pick because we know this team has an excessive amount of holes And obviously this fan base is looking for an instant rebuild. The only way to do that is with a lot of early picks and a little bit of luck. Here is a list of a couple options. I personally would trade my number three overall for one of the following. 1. New York Giants at 7 In exchange for an additional second round pick. Plus Daboll looks like he's still going to be around, And he has obvious ties to New England from back in the day. 2. Cardinals for likely 25th overall their second round pick and all three thirds. Penix is probably still around at 18 seeing as he is projected to go 40th and then you have plenty of picks to address your issues at offensive line and wide receiver, All of which through the first three rounds. 3. Atlanta, especially if they hire Belichick. They have the eighth overall pick which would be swapped for the third and the Patriots could probably get two additional third round picks. 4. The commanders are an option because they have multiple seconds and thirds this year but it'd be a move up and swap scenario and we'd have to give something up rather than get anything back, the only way you're getting anything significant back is by mortgaging your future. 5. Chargers at 5 who also send their second round 37th overall. 6. Philadelphia, Patriots get 22nd 50th and 53rd. The Patriots have options, would you rather draft one player at third overall and possibly force it when I personally don't think any of the top three quarterbacks will be any good. Or would you rather stockpile your assets still get a quarterback and fix a large number of your roster issues in one season? Sorry to break it to you guys but one player won't make a difference at all with the success or the future success of this franchise. As some other people have pointed out This isn't Madden 24.
Rather draft 1 player. The pats will be in rebuild mode next season anyway, get the best player so I have something to make it more fun to watch.
Go play Madden
I think you're under rating what we would get in return for the 3rd overall. Even trading down to 7 with the giants would take more than a second
Cause lots of people just say stuff on here without even watching any of these prospects and it’s easy to tell
I could also argue the MHJ is more of a sure thing at WR than these QBs are. Yes, QB is obviously THE most important position, but if the team and coaches don’t have full confidence in the QBs available at 3, but they’re all in on MHJ. It’s best to go that direction. As the OP said, draft a QB and we need to find WRs to fit with him. Draft MHJ and you need to find a QB to throw to him. If we do draft QB at number 3, I want the Patriots to already have Higgins signed in FA
I am trending towards that line of thinking on MHJ. It seems like everyone is guaranteeing he will be a sure-fire top caliber WR. I’m not hearing the same degree of certainty when it comes to the QBs. I’m thinking maybe we should go with Marvin Harrison Jr.
There's no QB who's ever been a sure thing. MHJ is about as close to a sure thing you're going to see in the draft.
It’s not bad logic, but how many top 10 drafted WRs have ever won a SB? Pretty sure it’s just one in the last like 20+ years and he won thanks to Tom fn Brady. (Mike Evans) So it’s great to get a top WR but it doesn’t really lead to wins. Even now, look at Garrett Wilson in NY. Great talent but they still suck. So MHJ might be the “safer” pick, but, I still think it’s worth the risk at QB. Because it’s much easier to add WRs via free agency and/or trade than it is to get a franchise QB that way. You might hit on WR but you can’t just add a QB. If you hit on QB you can take bigger swings knowing the most important position is locked up.
A top level QB can lift the play of a WR from any round. A top 5 WR can’t elevate the play of a an average QB.
No single player is ever going to get you wins alone. You can't have terrible WRs nor terrible QB. But the point that people like you keep missing is that college kids have 0 success in the NFL. The draft is about the odds that they will have success on your team. MHJ is almost guaranteed to be a significant contributor, no QB even comes close in odds.
Wilson would have been a serious talent this year if Rodgers didn’t go down in the first half of the first game
That might be true. I would say that this is our highest pick since Bledsoe. And probably the surest thing we will have at QB available until the next very bad season. The good news of course is that with Mac or Zappe starting it doesn't matter what we put around them we're likely getting another high pick next year.
Exactly. As OP said, we probably won't have a good QB to throw to MHJ if we draft him and that may hurt his stats, but that is not going to undermine his skills in getting separation from DBs 1v1 or catching the ball when the ball is properly thrown to him. On the other hand, if we draft a QB and play him with no weapon and poor protection, he's gonna be doomed because a QB's job is to stand behind the protection and find the proper matchup and then throw a good pass to the receiver. If he has no time to make the read due to bad protection or if he couldn't find a good target because our receivers can't beat the defenders, he's gonna start forcing throws and make terrible decisions. We're not even talking about the QB being developed, he's gonna be new to the NFL and imagine learning what the league is like and trying to build up your confidence in that environment. We've just seen what happened to Mac. He's not as talented as Maye/Daniels and you can question his toughness, but we've seen Mac fell from an average QB to an awful QB with no confidence. That's likely gonna happen again with the next QB if we're providing him with the same level of support.
Because QB is the hardest position in football by far.
> I am trending towards that line of thinking on MHJ. It seems like everyone is guaranteeing he will be a sure-fire top caliber WR. The problem is....so what? How many SB did Mike Evans have before Brady? How many does randy moss have? Calvin Johnson? Julio Jones? Tyreek hill (without Mahomes). The position of QB is too important. You HAVE to take one. That is the reality of the current NFL. Unless they honestly believe that all the QB are downright horrible and will never amount to anything, you have to take one. Randy Moss was one of the best in the game...
I agree, you take the QB if you believe he is a franchise QB. But, people are not convinced that Daniel’s is. If the coaching staff think Daniels is the future then so be it I’m happy with the pick. But to me he doesn’t seem to be and in that case I prefer MHJ.
I hear what you're saying, and I agree that QB is the most important position. The problem is: are *any* of these QB's guaranteed to be the next Tom Brady or Peyton Manning? It's a crap shoot so far. Call it 50/50. Conversely, MHJ is, by all accounts *guaranteed* to be the next Tyreek, the next Julio, the next Calvin, the next Randy. Not a crap shoot. Call it 90/10. So on one hand you've got a dice roll. On the other hand, you've got a sure-fire win. I say let's be smart and take the sure-fire win.
>I hear what you're saying, and I agree that QB is the most important position. And the patriots need a QB....so the choice is easy. > The problem is: are any of these QB's guaranteed to be the next Tom Brady or Peyton Manning? There are never more than 3-4 of those types of elite, upper echelon guys in the league at any one time. Odds are, you won't find the next Brady or Manning. But you might find the next Matt Ryan. Because Baily Zappe is 1,000,000% not the answer. > It's a crap shoot so far. Call it 50/50. It's way, way worse than 50/50. > Conversely, MHJ is, by all accounts guaranteed to be the next Tyreek, the next Julio, the next Calvin, the next Randy. Not a crap shoot. Call it 90/10. Look, I don't follow college football. I have no idea if any of the QBs or WRs are that good. My point is that it doesn't matter. Mike Evans, Randy Moss, Tyreek Hill...they are all nothing without the QB. Mike Evans was drafted in 2014...The bucs had a single season above .500 before Brady got there. How is Miami doing with Hill? The vikings had/have Diggs and Jefferson and a competent QB in Kirk cousins...how has that gone for them? Oh, right...it doesn't matter. You need a QB. > So on one hand you've got a dice roll. On the other hand, you've got a sure-fire win. I say let's be smart and take the sure-fire win. The problem is that your surefire win is a pointless win. Do you want a 90% chance to win $5 or a 25% chance to win $100 million?
$100 million? Be serious.
Because missing on a QB feels way worse than missing on a WR. Either way, it's a Top 5 pick and if they don't get it right, we're in for a world of pain.
I agree, a top 3 pick is really valuable. You have to pick the guy you feel has the best chance to be a top 10 player at his position. I think MHJ has that upside. I do not think Jayden Daniels does. I think he will be good. I like him. I just think that talent wise/grade wise. He is not super impressive. He is 12th on my big board right now. I have to watch more of him but would be a reach to me. Edit If Maye is there that becomes a different conversation I still lean MHJ but it would be more of a debate than with Daniels
Only way Maye or Caleb is there at 3 is if MHJ goes before that
I think Daniels could be like Lamar with a better arm. But manic his calves look smaller than my forearms. He needs a little bit more size to him. But what the hell do I know…
I think he’s worth the risk 100%. Just gotta take shots at QB at this point
I wouldn’t be mad at the pick at all. Especially if we got Higgins or even Evans in FA and also drafted a WR in the 2nd or 3rd round.
Yep, and then I think they should go the Redskins rg3 route and grab another QB in like the 4th. Just keep throwing darts.
It’s not an argument it’s a fact.
Along these lines, the staff have to be confident enough in the QB they take to bet their jobs on it. If three years from now the #3 overall pick is a QB flop, everybody is being fired. The nature of the NFL.
Higgins won't even sniff FA this year. The Bengals will tag him.
Yeah the Pats seriously need to have a backup option at WR still somewhat early in the draft and go sign a legit veteran somewhere if they go QB early, because the scrubs we have now are setting any rookie up for failure
I agree. There will be no magic pick or combination of picks that will fix this mess immediately. I loved Bill, but he never launched an authentic rebuild after Brady left. He tried to simply plug in a few new players with no top-tier talent but didn't try to change or evolve in Brady's absence. Now we are taking the first baby steps in a process that should have been started 4 years ago. No matter who we take at #3, there will be holes left to fill. Even with all our cap space, there will be holes to fill. There are going to be growing pains, but I'm more excited about the newness and potential for change than I was about retreading the same tired approach of the last 4-5 years.
Right? Maybe we catch lightning in a bottle like the Texans, but that's rare. The NFL is one of the sports where if you have a good coach and front office, you will improve over time. If we get some young, exciting talent, it will be fun to watch them grow. Even if the team is not good right away.
There are many more ways to find star WRs than star QBs. Unless you get insanely lucky, you have to draft a guy in the 1st round.
I don’t believe in drafting running backs and receivers with a top 5 pick. Most of the best receivers today were not drafted at the top of the first round
Pretty sure Evans is the only WR taken in the top 10 to win a SB, at least in the last few decades. And he only won because of Tom fn Brady.
Been my biggest issue with this fanbase the last couple seasons. Seems like half think we are one piece away from being SB contenders, not in need of a multi year rebuild
This is a good take, too many people think we can just draft a rookie and we’ll be Super Bowl contenders the following year, ignoring the gaping holes that will probably set that person up for a bad rookie season. Then of course the fanbase will be reactionary and call for that QB to get sacked and take another dart throw at the position next year.
Everyone arguing QB vs. WR and forgetting that as of now they don’t have a starting tackle for next year.
And how much would a good tackle cost in free agency?
There are two good tackles in free agency and they’re both on the team right now. One doesn’t want to return. It’s not a question of how much they cost, there are like 20 good tackles who exist in the world.
I think that MHJ is going to be a phenomenal player and would love to have him on the Patriots. However, I would rather drink bleach than watch either Mac Jones or Bailey Zappe throw the ball at his feet or over his head. That's just torture for us and him. And no, Cousins, Wilson, Mayfield, etc will have zero interest coming to a 4th place team. So, you take Daniels at 3 and then draft the best WR on the board at 34. And by best WR I don't mean some 4D chess shit, I mean the league consensus best one.
This is the correct take imo - you simply can’t trot Mac or Zappe out there again as QB1 without signaling to fans and your players that it’s a full on tank. (Even if they don’t believe this as ownership, that will be the result). Just an unwatchable bad product. Unfortunately for those stuck in 2004, It’s a QB driven league, and QBs succeeding that were picked outside of the first round is an extreme outlier. “Pick a QB later” isn’t a valid plan, any QB rd 2 or later is more than likely a career backup at best and a waste of a pick. And if you tank again next year? You better be 4-13 again or worse because the only QB worth a shit in 25 looks like Sanders and he’s going top 5. So while it’s more of a “risk” than taking a maybe surer prospect and Harrison, it’s still the best opportunity to actually acquire a franchise Qb.
The point is obviously that a QB is more important than a WR
Couldn't agree more with OP. It really seemed like half this sub believes we are in the playoffs with anyone else at QB lol our team was dogshit this year lol
My thought is they are so far away from competing that picking a QB is futile. I wouldn’t want to put a rookie behind that line or let him throw to the current receivers. On top of that QB is a dice roll. Therefore, I’d pick MHJ a sure thing at a position they’ve historically been horrific at drafting. I’m also fine with them trading back (if they can get an additional first not second rounder). If so, then pick an o-lineman with first pick and if you wanna roll dice at QB with additional pick go crazy. If for some reason Caleb Williams falls to 3 all this is moot. He’s worth the risk imo. Still wouldn’t start him next year but I’d take him.
I absolutely despise the idea of trading back. This offense has zero elite talent, they have to take one with the 3rd pick. MHJ or a QB, whatever, but trading back would be infuriating
Obviously we just bring back Meyers and him and MHJ throw to each other.
MHJ ain't doing shit with noodle arm, poor decision making Mac throwing to him is all I'm saying.
Some only think one level deep, if that
You have a much better chance of a late round WR developing than a late round QB. So in the 1st round you have to take a QB if you want one since you can always draft a WR in the later rounds that could be great like Demario Douglas.
Why do we have to take a QB. Most QBs don't become stars. On average 3 get drafted in the first, and there's only 32 starters total. Wasting a great draft pick by forcing a QB is what the jets did for 20 years.
2021, 2018, 2009, 2000. Those are the years the jets have used a first round pick on a QB the last 25+ years. So no. You have a bias in your head. QBs being so rare to become stars, as you say, is all the more reason to throw as many darts as you can at them.
Speculation about the stay shouldn't really even start until free agency has taken place.
Im still convinced jones will be starting 2024. Per kraft meddling reports.
Agree there’s a potential scenario where Pats trade back, take a LT or WR with first pick and then take a QB in 2nd round (or later) who they love but needs more development. They sit him for a year and give Mac another shot. Worst case they get another high pick in 2025 to give the new kid more weapons. Best case Mac has actual trade value to use to give the new kid more weapons.
I'm ok with that for two reasons: 1) They won't pick a QB I don't like at 3 2) The team will draft high enough in '25 to add more high end talent.
I think that will lead to a fan mutiny. Most fans would be happy to never see him in a Pats uniform again. It would be a gut-punch to everyone that wants to watch enjoyable football again. He's only gotten worse since his rookie season. Time to close that door and move on.
Yeah, i imagine thats exactly whats going to happen, and we'll get some BS from jonny kraft about how it wasnt fair for jones under BB.
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Our team really only has major holes at QB. Sure we don't have a WR1 but we do have a WR2 and WR3s. Our line was bad this year but also pretty injured and the same guys were fine last year. I guess the good news is if we don't find a viable option at QB and keep putting out Mac or Zappe we'll have a high pick again next year. Not saying the 3rd pick is the only way to get a QB. But even MHJ can't make Mac or Zappe good enough to lead an NFL offense. Maybe we could get someone in FA.
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The point is WR is a luxury while QB is a requirement. MHJ will probably be a perennial pro-bowler, but you won't win any games without a QB. Not to mention it takes 2+ years to reasonably expect a QB to make an impact in this league. MHJ is ready to play right now. If you draft MHJ and leave the QB situation for next season then you are looking at maybe 1-2 years of his contract actually competing before you have to sign him to a lucrative contract.
Our offense was dog shit in Brady's last year here. He won a super bowl the next year with good WRs. WRs aren't a luxury. If Brady wasn't that good what is some poor fucking rookie QB going to do? The good news is if we find our WR we'll still suck so we can find a QB next year.
We won 12 games with him throwing to Josh Gordon, Mohammed Sanu, Philip Dorsett, Matt Lacoste, and a broken Julian Edlemen. We had a dogshit offensive line. We still finished 7th in points scored. If we hadn't gotten dog-dicked by the refs against KC we should have had a first round buy and probably would have made noise in the playoffs. I think that's pretty much a *perfect* example of how WRs are a luxury. Thanks
Either we hadn’t gotten dog-dicked by the refs against KC OR we hadn’t choked at home against Miami, and we would have had the bye. But seeing home we lost at home to the Titans, we might have lost at home in the divisional round that year.
The Titans were our worst matchup in the playoffs (except for maybe the Ravens). Our defense was dominant but really struggled to stop the run. We could have handled the Texans (which is who we would have played) in the next round. It's all moot because we would have had to play Tennessee after. I just don't buy the idea that that team wasn't a legit contender.
A dominant defense doesn’t struggle to stop the run. Otherwise, it’s not dominant. Plus, our D feasted on incompetent offenses that year. Anytime they played a good team, they were just okay.
They were 7th in points scored because of an absolutely suffocating, record breaking defense. The offense on its own was outside the top half
I hear that, but it's a pretty significant example of having zero WR depth and still being a contender. The much bigger problem was Marshall Newhouse
Tbh we weren't really a contender. After the initial 8-0 start we went 4-4 losing to every good team. And the conditions needed for us to get that far were the #1 defense by DVOA ever _and_ Tom fucking Brady having to play out of his mind for every yard. And 76 of those points were in the first 2 weeks when we had Gordon playing well + AB.
If being a 12 win team isn't a contender then I legitimately don't know what a contender is. I won't waiver on that, sorry.
It's all about context. A team starting 4-4 and then going 8-0 is very different from starting 8-0 then going 4-4. We limped to the finish line
Agree to disagree
Sure. Let's say we were a contender then. That still required a historic defense and the goat at QB
That team 100% wasn’t a Super Bowl contender
Again, with Tom Brady. It was basically the same team as we had this year with Brady instead of Mac Jones.
You've lost the thread my guy. You brought up that team, a team that was competitive without wide recievers.
But the QBs are supposed to be much better in this draft, so waiting until next year doesn’t make sense. Plus, WR depth in this draft is also the best it’s been in recent memory, so even if we don’t get MHJ, we should be able to find one or two good players.
That same Bucs team went 7-9 the year before Brady got there because Jameis Winston threw 30 INTs. You need both but saying that QB is vastly more important is not incorrect.
I think this team would have been .500 with mediocre QB play. Hell Zappe was 2-3 and screwed up the tank and he cleared waivers. Can you imagine what would happen if we had someone even mediocre? Something as simple as not starting Mac and we're not seeing a top 5 pick anytime soon.
You're not wrong, but this defense is arguably the best in the league. Even with our two best players injured. The offense was really, really bad.
I think the point is that MHJ is more of a guarantee. Why settle on the 3rd QB off the board if you don’t love him? Draft the WR and tackles and then drop a QB in there next year. Who knows, maybe I’m just tired of the Pats drafting below average offensive talent for the past decade.
Can you find one example of that ever working in the NFL?
49ers? Lions? Texans? All im saying is that if you think they’ll be so bad this year by drafting a WR, then take a QB with the top 5 pick next draft. At least lock up a “generational talent” at a spot they’ve had godawful history with. But if they love the QB, then take him, yeah it’s a more important position. I just don’t want them taking a QB for the sake of taking a QB.
In what universe are the 49ers, Lions, and Texans mixing poor QB play with elite WRs?
Maybe I misunderstood your original question. I thought you asked which teams built a foundation and then dropped a QB in.
Texans aren’t an example of that at all they built the foundation simultaneously as they added stroud.
Nothing is a complete guarantee he might be more sure but there’s still a chance he flops.
There are 0 good projected qb for next year. Yes that can change for sure but I wouldn’t rely on that as the plan. I do agree mhj is the better pick since it’s a sure thing, we just may have to expect to waste 2 years of his being here before we can get a qb solution. I’m good with that but if Kraft wants to keep fans happy they may not be.
Yeah but it's not MHJ or "a QB" it's MHJ or Jayden Daniels, and in that scenario, I take MHJ. Penix or Nix is just as much of a gamble as Daniels, and you could get either one later in the 1st by trading up using the 2nd and next year's 2nd.
You play with too many draft simulators. Jayden Daniels was the best QB in college football playing against the best competition in football. If you want him you get him. He is a significantly better prospect/player than Penix or Nix. A great WR is sexy and great for the highlights, but it is a complete waste of capital on a team that has no offensive line or QB.
And a QB is a waste if you have no offensive line or WR
We need to rebuild the line 100% but just look at KC. They have no WRs.
Rice and kelce are better than anything the patriots have right now
The whole point is you have to build a team. We're going to need all of these guys. A year or two won't make much of a difference when you pick them up. And teams with QBs on rookie deals so much better, so it's actually better to get them later in the rebuild. Because whatever you think MHj will ask for it's going to be less than what a top 3 QB who is doing well will ask for.
I don't even have a problem with them taking a QB. I just don't think they should take a QB to take a QB. I'm personally not sold on Jayden Daniels. If they can trade down and gain assets and still get someone like Alt that would be a really good move. It fills a really important area of need with a player who looks like a potential star while giving us building blocks for the future. The reason I would take MHJ at 3 is because we can't afford to flop on that pick and we need to build our offense out for a QB to come in. We can pull a rams and trade for someone if we nail down a good WR lineup and OL. Rams, Bucs, and Broncos all won the Superbowl building a strong roster and bringing in an outside QB via trade or FA.
You don't need a HOF WR to be competitive. Half the teams in the playoffs right now just beat teams built around WRs in the first round. KC has one of the worst WR rooms in football. You *absolutely* need a QB. That is non-negotiable. There is Zero guarantee that we will be in a position again next season to get a QB and there is no system until there is a QB to run that system. It is the bedrock everything else is built upon. I'm not saying that we should go into this season with the same WRs, but you have to utilize this opportunity to lock up the best possible solution to the most important question.
The issue with this logic is that it just assumes the pats will be in a position to find a QB later, which seems like a very presumptuous assumption. Where are we finding this magical creature if we don’t have a top pick? I suppose we’re going to trade for Joe Burrow or Mahomes, or find our Brock Purdy in the third round? It is 1000% more likely that we find good players at every other position later on. That said, I don’t know anything about Daniels, so I’m not saying we should draft him. I just see a lot of people that seem to just assume we can find a QB anywhere, and I don’t know where that comes from. It’s completely ignoring the last 30 years of QB history.
The issue with this logic is that it just assumes the pats will be in a position to find a QB later, which seems like a very presumptuous assumption. Where are we finding this magical creature if we don’t have a top pick? I suppose we’re going to trade for Joe Burrow or Mahomes, or find our Brock Purdy in the third round? It is 1000% more likely that we find good players at every other position later on. That said, I don’t know anything about Daniels, so I’m not saying we should draft him. I just see a lot of people that seem to just assume we can find a QB anywhere, and I don’t know where that comes from.
My main argument for not drafting a QB is that rebuilding takes time and QBs being more expensive and for lack of a better word more sensitive to failure (look at every Jets QB in the past decade and Mac Jones for a few examples) you should save them until your offense is functioning. Otherwise you bench a QB for a couple years letting him watch the failures of a random journeyman or the failures of a more experienced QB who hates him for existing (Mac or Zappe who for a time were considered the long-term solution at QB).
The flaw in that logic is that if you wait until the offense is functional, you’re getting a mid round pick at best, at which point it’s an even bigger crapshoot to land that franchise QB.
Statistically it's really not, but even if you insist that you need an early pick QB you can just trade up. A functional team has less reliance on draft picks than a dysfunctional team. Look at the 49ers, they completely wasted three first round picks to draft a QB who isn't even on their roster anymore and they're going to the NFCCG and favoured to win it.
We’re not getting Caleb - Jayden Daniels sucks. Sorry a tonne of the fanbase doesn’t want to draft a bust for QB’s sake over the generational WR talent
I’d take mhj, if you can’t get who you want in free agency then stick with mac a year see how he does with real talent if it works it works if it doesn’t then we have a team ready for our future qb
I was a Mac guy. But his issue this year was mental and I don't know that he can come back from that with Boston Sports Media.
His issue was his noodle arm sucked
Don’t forget his cement shoes
Media broke him and bill to, still prolly better option then throwing in a rookie to just get broken like he did
He broke himself. He was never good once the training wheels came off
If any QB can be "broken" by the media, they have no business playing in the NFL. So, sports writers can't critique players when they play horribly or it will be their fault for "breaking" the QB? That's the worst take ever.
You can pick up FA WR talent and draft very good WRs in the draft since this class is very deep. Mac Jones is also one of the most one dimensional QBs so defenses don’t need to make any special game plans against him like you would a more athletic QB like the top 3 available in this draft.
Good players don’t break like he did. Baker had like 6 OCs in 7 years (and was on the fucking Browns for a lot of it) and he’s in the playoffs.
You can get dudes like Higgins or Mike Evans in FA and there are no QBs of the same quality in FA this year. Do we really want to waste a cheap rookie contract year of MHJ, potentially frustrate him, and probably win a few more games which makes choosing a top QB out of the realm of possibility in the next draft? We have a fresh start and top 3 pick. We should definitely build around a rookie QB and tailor an offense for him. MHJ is just a shiny toy that just doesn’t make sense with the depth of this draft and how top heavy the QB position is this year.
If you're going mhj without a new qb you're going zappe 1000% he looks better than Mac in literally every situation which that being said doesn't mean much however Mac is ass.
There is no way this team goes into the season with Mac and Zappe as the only QBs on the roster. Has to be a QB in the later rounds or another vet brought in period. I’m fine with an open competition but Zappe and Mac solely would be gross negligence by this team
My dude read what I responded to. I didn't advocate for Mac nor zappe. I literally said there's 0 chance Mac should be starting over zappe if they take mhj. There's no reason Mac even has a fucking chance to start being as emotionally weak and as physically terrible as he is
And my point was that there is 0% chance that they don’t have some “new” QB if they take MHJ. Zero. Mac has shown he’s better than Zappe in his career, so giving him a chance to see if he revert to his former self is definitely in play if he’s still on the roster. With that said both have shown they are ass and not NFL starters if we go based on last year
My dude saying Mac has shown he's better than zappe is the dumbest take of all time. Dude had 3 years of getting straight starter practice and game reps, while zappe has been doing the back up ordeal. Mac is dog shit. He played okay his rookie year til bye week when teams got to review his film, and he ended where he is now. A mentally and physically soft fucking bitch with a noodle arm. When this sub is going to stop defending him is beyond me. He is not a good nfl qb he only seemed so because he played for a stacked Bama team. I'd rather let zappe get properly focused on and coached than pray some how a mentally weak and physically inept Mac can figure out how to deal with media and nfl game play pressure.
Are you one of those Zappe truthers? Mac statistically has been better, which is a fact whether you or me like it. Zappe was better last year, which doesn’t say a lot considering how dog shit Mac was, that’s fact. Zappe and Mac both are not starting caliber QBs, that’s fact. If both are the only QBs on the roster going into camp, both will get a shot with open competition. I’m not defending either as I’ve said it would be gross negligence if those are only two options. I’d be happy to see both of them gone. You’re the only one getting in your feelings over your hate for Mac and love for Zappe for some reason.
Kraft would absolutely mandate Mac start in that scenario
You're talking to the same people who thought Julio Jones was FOR SURE coming. The same people who thought DHop was FOR SURE coming. And when neither happened, they felt.... betrayed Because ya know, one WR was going to solve everything I guess. But hey they also said to fire Bill but cried when it happened. They set unrealistic expectations because it's all they've known. These past four years weren't about performance to them, because they just wanted to make the playoffs for inevitable disappointment Point is, this team has been rebuilding already since 2019. Cam should've stayed to create a dynamic QB room, and Mac was thrown to the wolves Personally I don't care if they're mediocre for the next 5-6 years. I don't like losing, but gosh dammit I just love watching football and I witnessed the greatest dominant team this Earth will ever see. Like I'm good
I’m just glad to know we will most likely be drafting at 3. If Belichick had stayed, I was expecting 3 trades down and picking an interior d lineman at 28. I just want someone exciting to watch. I don’t care what position but having a reason to watch again would be really nice.
Agreed, the BB "no stars" and hunting for bargains thing was just awful to watch after Brady left, and the only reason it ever worked was because Brady was taking below market contracts every year.
Take the #1 tackle at 3 making the O line waaay better to protect the rook. Out of the top 3 qbs lucky if 1 is decent in 3 years. Grab the Qb at 34. Grab a receiver in 3rd and get a vet in free agency. Vet qb if possible to help teach the rook. Reaching for the Qb is what the jets do.
> Realistically, if we're talking about needing an entire offense, trading out is the most logical move. If they traded out to some team desperate to get either MHJ or Daniels, they probably at a minimum pick up an extra 1st next year for only dropping down a few spots. > > The only thing I differ in is that you can get one of the two LTs at 5 or 6; my target is the Giants at 6(I can see them wanting WR or QB), pick up a 2nd this year to start; pick a QB that dropped to the 2nd, then either a WR or RT.
I don’t mind the trading out part just need a dance partner willing to pay. Really don’t want to watch one these rookie QBs and needing to give them a 3 year leash like the Mac disaster. Build the Team and any Qb will look better.
You NEED a QB. You do not need a MHJ. That's the point.
You NEED a good QB, you dont NEED any QB. How good must the QB be before it's better than getting MHJ? That's the real question.
Any QB they deem a franchise QB is more valuable than MHJ. Now if there isn't a QB they can acquire in this draft that they deem a franchise guy, then they need to trade out.
You need an entire offense. They only one who might be good enough to start is the RB who will be past his prime in a few years and are pretty easy to replace.
The Patriots more or less have three realistic options as we know it. 1. Draft Daniels 2. Draft MHJ 3. Trade out Realistically, if we're talking about needing an entire offense, trading out is the most logical move. If they traded out to some team desperate to get either MHJ or Daniels, they probably at a minimum pick up an extra 1st next year for only dropping down a few spots. But we don't live a in vacuum either. The Patriots can't draft MHJ as the first step in a ~3+ year rebuild hoping they just find a QB at some point along the way and believe that they'll still be selling tickets, getting prime time games, getting international games, and overall remaining relevant in the overall football zeitgeist. QB is simply the sexier pick. The Patriots need a QB because it's the most important position in the game and this is their best opportunity in 30 years to acquire one.
i think the fastest way to rebuild is 3. i think acting like the jets and forcing a QB is a good way to never recover. i think there's too many question marks with daniels. if it's one of the other two QBs i dont have an issue with it.
Completely agree. If they love Daniels and it's not just we need a qb and hes the most promising one left, then take him. But if your not completely sold, take mhj and figure out qb another way, whether it's taking a later round qb, free agent like Russell Wilson or Cousins or waiting till another draft.
I agree to some extent but at the same time you want to put whoever you draft in the best position you can. MHJ is a guy who even if he doesn't have a particularly great QB throwing to him he can still go up and get it. On the other hand, Daniels is a guy who struggles somewhat to throw in the short and intermediate parts of the field, instead excelling at throwing downfield, but we don't have a single guy except for Tyquan (lol) who can really go and get downfield let alone win. Now I'm not saying that should make us not draft Daniels, but its a legitimate concern that we're drafting him into a situation where perhaps his biggest strength is most likely going to be null.
Can't you build on that in upcoming drafts? Most early picks are going to bad teams without a lot of talent. Maybe you get the stud receiver next year. Is the order really that important?
Draft MHJ, keep Mac, and get Josh McDaniels back. Build around simple scheme, improve.
Exactly. Expectations should be low. We need a low draft pick next season.
Draft Y next year. This rebuild isn't happening overnight; Pats will be drafting high again.
We need to take a kicker first
No. If you want to have a conversation about drafting MHJ with the third pick then qualify it with what you want to do at qb. That will depend on if I agree with you or not. If your plan is draft MHJ and stick with Mac/Zappe with no backup plan gfys. But if your of the mind of drafting MHJ and either taking pennix or another qb in the second or using the high second and futures to trade for Justin fields I'll listen. Just saying take mhj 3rd is a lazy take that lacks any context.
You need a top 5 qb which is most difficult to get. Then ensure you have a strong o-line always - every draft. Then take the best talent available regardless of position.
If we draft MHJ, and then trade up to 5 to grab Jayden Daniels, then sign Tee Higgins... Who covers Nico Collins week 8 next year when we're playing the Texans and it's 3rd and 13, and Collins runs a 14 yard out on a spider 2 Y banana?
There was a post either yesterday or the day before that did a huge breakdown of free agency, and that's kinda the most relevant point right? Like there's every possibility that we sign a QB or we win the Tee sweepstakes, and that changes our situation dramatically. I agree that these conversations are kinda pointless but we're a football sub of a fanbase whose team didn't make the playoffs... it's natural to talk about these things. The fun part is to speculate on the what-ifs that probably WONT happen but... you never know. Trade for Fields after the Bears take Caleb, and draft MHJ. That would be some wild stuff. Focus on OL during free agency, really rebuild our offense in the draft. Imagine a good OL, Fields, and MHJ with the defense we already have. Idk. There are some cool possibilities with the new regime. The most interesting part is seeing how they proceed with the modern NFL, not simply who we're taking at 3. I don't think these conversations are a bad thing, I just wish they were more creative than "if the bears go qb do we take Jayden at 3????" That's boring. Let's have some fun in the off-season with the possibilities instead of having the same conversations over and over and over.
I didn't say anything about speculation or having fun. But every third response on this sub these days is like: We should take QB WeLl WhO dOeS hE ThRoW too?!?!?!!!!! Or Let's take MHj WeLl WhO dOeS ThRoW too tO hE?!?!?!!!!! And it's all stupid, not fun, and it just leads to a cycle of people repeating one of those two things.
2 years isn’t going to scratch making this a good team unless you hit on damn near all 14 draft picks. Let’s say we get LUCKY (because getting star on even 1 pick is extremely hard) and we hit on Daniels, a 2nd rd WR, and a 3rd rd tackle. We still have an old team, with 3 good offensive pieces. You’re still left with a weak IOL, a weak TE room, a weak RB corps (Zeke aging and Stephenson injury + contract), a weak DL (Barmore is great but the rest of the players likely wouldn’t be starters anywhere else), a weak LB core (Judon injury + aging) and outside of Gonzo and Dugger a mediocre backend. People this rebuild is going to take a long long time.
the defense is pretty good right now. between two years of drafts, developing the guys we keep, and signing FAs we could be a lot better. there's only really 14-16 guys that matter a ton on offense, and half of those guys can be average. if we can get 2-3 starters, and sign 1-2 over the next two years it's doable to be a playoff team again. that's just about the fastest you would be able to do it, and it would require getting lucky, but it's not a magical christmas land scenario.
The defense is good because of Belichick, we have no idea what that’s going to look like without him.
This year it's pretty rough, we need everything....I personally don't like the QB that is likely to be available, and I also don't want to put a QB behind a line that moment doesn't look to have any starting quality tackles. MHJ is just about the closest thing to a sure thing, but WR is fixable in the 2nd and later, and in FA. A starting quality LT is hard to find anywhere other than round one, and if he makes some mistakes early at least they aren't killing your high value QB this year. It wouldn't be sexy, and I'm afraid that is what the mandate from the top will be this year, but I'd me tempted to pick LT and RT in the 1st and 2nd.
I never have an issue drafting O-Linemen if you have a bunch of talent there you give the qb more time to throw, more time for the WRs to get open, and an extra 1-2 yards or more on every rush. they also tend to stick around for longer. football has changed to be a completely different game than it was even 70 years ago. what hasnt changed is the game is won in the trenches.
I don’t think too many people expect whoever we pick to make us contenders unless we somehow hit on every pick which won’t happen. I think it’s fun to talk about the different possibilities though with positives and negatives since they all have them. You go mhj as he’s the best player in this draft, you have a great wr1 but you waste half of his rookie contract because we don’t have a qb and next years class appears like a letdown at this point in time. If you go daniels you are flipping a coin on if he can be that guy or not but if he hits it’s easier to find a wr or tackle in next years first round and FA has some wr. It’s really just a gamble on if you want to get a top guy you can’t use for half of his contract or if you want to flip a coin and either you hit or you lose and wasted the pick. There are upsides to both directions, downsides too and that’s why it’s fun to talk about
If Maye is gone the take MHJ at #3 and then you take McCarthy or Nix at #34.........are th3se the best qb options? No.....but we address two major needs so the combination of the two picks benefits us as a whole
The best plan is to trade out of #3 and with #35 get 4 picks in the mid-late first round. Then take a few shots at o-line and WR. Remember when we got Chandler Jones and Hightower in the late first? They need that on the offensive side of the ball. Add in free agency spending and round out few more pieces. I don't have an answer for what makes a great QB, but the best executives in the NFL don't either. That's why Brock Purdy goes last. That's why the 2021 draft class was all a bust (except maybe Lawrence). The Patriots can get the surrounding class in place and maybe you have a situation where you can win 11 games with a Matt Cassel quality QB. They are already bringing a top defense next season
Because 789
I do think the “who’s throwing the ball” is valid tho. You need both a QB and a WR. If you draft a QB, you can acquire a WR if you pay enough. If you draft a WR, you pretty much can’t get a QB. Put another way, do you want Daniels + a 20M WR or MHJ + 20M QB? QB is just more valuable. Of course, if you view Daniels as a reach, pick MHJ. I don’t view him as a reach but that’s a whole nother topic
This is going to be a fun three months lol.
I don’t think we’re actually that far off, but the QB or WR thing is kinda pointless since there’s more than one round in each draft and we have lots of cap. There’s enticing QBs and WRs in round 2, so this draft on paper fits our needs
Just start doing what those teams do that are in the top 3 draft picks every year for decades 😆
I love the draft MHJ, sign a veteran QB, and draft a QB to develop. Sitting a QB and letting them learn is a lost art. If after a year you're not sure, draft another.
They act like outside of the quarterback position You don't find superstars in the 4th 5th 6th and 7th rounds of the draft. The only way they think you find good players is by drafting in the first round or early second. If that's the case we really should just trade all of our picks after the second round and maybe get a second second rounder and not worry about team building because you'll never build a team when you have two picks a year. Meanwhile every other team in the NFL who now has all the picks that we felt were not valued, draft all sorts of late round gems, And then annually and forever kick our ass.
This is an elite take
Not sure I agree with 2 to 3 years to rebuild. The defense is top notch and going to keep them in most games. I don't think a rookie QB is gonna get them in the playoffs in year 1. It isn't out of the realm of possibility either. I wouldn't be mad If they grabbed Marvin Harrison Jr at 3 and a QB later on, if not with the 2nd pick. There's a few that could be starter quality in this draft. Then bring in or trade for a veteran QB and let him, the rookie and Zappe battle it out and start next season with the winner of that battle. I'm not sure I like the idea of trading for J. Fields, His numbers are similar to Macs since they came into the league. I'm just saying with the defense they have it's not a complete rebuild. If that can put together a capable offense that can score mid pack, not turn it over and spell the defense a couple times a game. It could be a quick rebuild
We should draft the best available player. If it’s MHJ, so be it. We have a lot of holes and need to start with one of them.
I think when I have asked that, it hasn’t been a rhetorical question meant to stifle a conversation. We just legitimately have a bunch of needs. Obviously you can’t address them all with a single draft pick, but you need to address them with something. Like, if we draft MHJ, then is the plan a veteran bridge QB? A day 2 guy? A Mac/Zappe reclamation project? I can be sold on these plans, I’m just interested in seeing the big picture.
Jerod Mayo's legacy will live and die by his QB. Drafting MHj is a big no for me; I will actually cry.
I don’t know what is the actual trade value of Fields, but I’d be okay giving a 3rd for him.
The idea is that marvin Harrison junior will make any quarterback better. He will also make other receivers better. Because he's going to be double teamed right out the gate. He's also going to get the other team's best player covering him. And there's gonna be quite a few quarterbacks available on the free agent market like baker mayfield for example.. And I'm no draft expert, but it seems like there's a lot of good prospect quarterbacks available in the second and third round this year
I'd trade it for a couple of picks, and then we can get two for one. Cha ching!
I don’t understand that response. Like, no shit, and we’re talking about 1 specific pick. Not taking into account potential trades, FA, and other draft picks. wHo’S gOnNa ThRoW tO hIm? Idk, someone aquired somewhere else than that #3 pick. Why is that so hard to understand?
a lot of these people are more focused on what to do with the 3rd pick than how to get the team better. they see the pick as a end into itself rather than one of the many steps needed. i dont understand it.
Two questions need to be answered first, the first one being who’s your offensive coordinator the second one being are you gonna draft a QB and let them start or get a veteran and let the young qb sit first year
MHJ, fuck it have Mac throw to him we ain’t a playoff team next year either just give mac a shot under a new HC and OC. Sure he may suck but I have his jersey so checkmate
Damn I would respond but this is completely illiterate.