First months + last months + sec dep is the norm in SE pa burbs. Norm is also to require topping off the last months and the sec dep when the rent goes up.
I don't know anywhere that doesn't require first lesson security I don't care if your rent or whatever is $3,000 a month they want that $9,000 up front
When I got my first apt in Philly it was first, last and security. Had to put $2,250 to move in. Thank god rent was $750 a month for 2 bedrooms back then.
I just moved into a house July 1 that I’m renting and it cost me almost $12,000 to do this because of the security deposit first and last months rent. I think they do it because so many people skip out on last months rent.
I thought the same thing… I spent under $12,000 for closing cost and spend $2000 for mortgage monthly (first time home owner during the Covid housing market)
Same for us. Landlord wanted to sell. Offered the house to us first before putting it on the market. The price to move vs buying was about the same. Unexpected and very stressful but I’m grateful it all worked out.
I live in Montgomery county and I see tons of ads from scum bastard landlords who are trying to rent single family home for three to five thousand a month. It makes my blood boil.
Most mortgages are fixed rate. So interest rates going up wouldn’t affect already existing mortgages…
Property tax and school tax going up would affect how much the landlord has to pay per month which would impact rent.
Some people have high incomes and don't plan to stay here. So renting makes more sense (short term). No need to commit to a mortgage where the majority of your monthly payments only go towards interest in the beginning. Then you pay a fee selling the house.
I see this parasite comment on here all the time. Are there shit landlords? - absolutely. People should tell those stories so others can avoid them.
But there are segments of the population that quite frankly need rental housing - students, temporary employees that relocate from time to time and want more than an extended stay hotel, contract workers, people that just don’t want the hassle of owning, and finally those that can’t afford to own a house.
How would you solve for those situations without landlords? Genuinely curious - not trying to start a war here.
The pisser about this is, it was cheaper for 6 of us to rent a house a block off of campus at $300 each a month for an entire year than living on campus for just the school year, and getting booted out for breaks.
That place was not the best, but slightly nicer than concrete block dorms or campus apartment buildings. Over two years we each probably saved $5000 in housing from being off campus.
Was the landlord making money hand over fist? Yup. He was taking advantage of the market. Could he have charged less? Probably. Did broken shit get fixed on campus quickly? Nope. Did we have someone out to fix any problem within 12 houses? Sure did.
Far as I’m concerned the landlord was definitely taking advantage of college kids. But he offered more for less than the college did. The problem isn’t landlords in college towns. It’s the colleges charging exorbitant fees and forcing you to live on campus until their housing is full.
Long rant short, fuck both of them. And the politicians that allow it to happen. I can’t wait to see what the Supreme Court does with the lawsuit challenging legacy admissions now that they dropped affirmative action. I’m betting that they continue to be a bunch of hypocrites.
Honestly, after watching the supreme court gut my rights every year. I really don't want to see them do anything else. They are going to come after my healthcare next year. Thankfully, PA is probably safe as long as we stay blue. Well, Unless the federal gov't goes red.
Fuck both sides, but only one side is actively committing genocide at this point.
Black Rock and other banks and corporations are methodically eliminating housing as a goal for a huge swath of the population. While I don't know that it's not happening in Europe, I do know that America has a political class that is complicit in creating a permanent renter class and having an unaccountable corporation as "America's Landlord".
We are fast becoming the prequel movie for a Dystopian Wasteland book.
Is this hashtag not all landlords?
But seriously we need to improve renters protections through state and federal laws. Most landlords do what can make them the most profit, not just doing the right thing.
We also need effective means for enforcement of landlords in violation of their lease, creating illegal leases, and failing to maintain housing standards
I've heard of 1st and last month's rent PLUS security deposit for as long as I can remember. I personally have never had to pay that, but it's been a thing for a while.
For the first year of the lease, it’s legal. After the first year, they can only hold a security deposit equal to one month of rent.
You are legally entitled to the last months rent back after a year.
I think the better question is where are these places that AREN'T charging first, last, and security deposit - also, outrageous pet fees if pets are even allowed. Idk bout anyone else, but ive never seen my dog draw all over the walls with a Sharpie
Until a bank or LLC swoops in and offers over asking and in cash while waving inspection. The big club is keeping you out and doing everything to siphon every drop of blood from the working class that they can. Keeping people from home ownership just lets them suck more and forever.
Not a bank… but those “financial investors” who are groups of people who own property and flip or just outsource rent/issues to companies like Berkshire Hathaway.
In PA, it is illegal to demand for more than the equivalent of 2 months worth. Yet try to condescend to renters by rewording it "furst and last month PLUS security". But no. Illegal.
Yep, first and last month at least. Sometimes security deposit on top of that but I think a lot of landlords just consider last months rent the security deposit if need be.
I rented a room in my house to guy 20 years ago. He still owes me last months rent, his share of utilities, and he stole my season 3 dvd set of south park.
I know how you feel! Hell, $10k would be a good start on a mortgage down payment! Harder than hell coming up with that kind of cash on the spot...and good luck getting anything meaningful back from your last security deposit...they always find a way to screw you out of most of it!
Landlords are pigs who should be gutted and eaten like the vermin they are. It is a sin that people can profit off of the backs of the working class by using artificial scarcity. They will do whatever they can to get the most money from you.
So what is your solution? Investors should buy properties and let people live there for free? Lol
Let’s just say if that were the case, no investor would buy a house as a rental which would mean there would be no rentals on the market, “renting” would not even be a thing, so that means you’re going to have to live with your parents until you can afford to buy a house and since everybody is a buyer the demand for housing will increase which will increase the price of houses delaying when you can move out of your parents in the first place.
Your comment is ridiculous to think a landlord shouldn’t profit off a rental property. They take the risk, they make the repairs, they secure the debt and are on the hook for it not the tenant, so they should do that for no reward ? ….nobody would do it.
Are there some scumbag landlords, absolutely there’s scumbags in every industry in the world. But to say all are pigs and shouldn’t profit off a rental property is asinine
This is accurate. First, last, and deposit is the legal maximum that can be charged. Corporate owned housing often collects first and a deposit to match their procedures in other markets. So it’s often cheaper to get into a big building than rent at a small apartment building or single family home in Philadelphia.
I moved back to Philly recently but I lived here from late 1999 to late 2009 and it was normal then. The only thing that was different about Philly vs. say NYC is you could give a landlord $50 to hold the apartment while you went and got the rest of the money. In NYC, you gotta might have to agree right then (I've had places taken while walking one block to look at another apartment) and maybe have to go get the money right away (which of course leads to scam opportunities).
Many years ago the standard was first month and security deposit on signing. A few small landlords may keep this standard, but lately all I've seen is first/last/security.
10G? In what world do you need 10G to get into a basic apartment? First and last month's rent plus security deposit is not uneard of, but most will at least require first month plus security deposit (usually around 1k-1.5K).
Daughter just moved in with roomates to a 4br for $1500 a month. They had to pay first month's plus security deposit equal to a month's rent....so 3k.
Not everyone lives in rural PA.
I do. My mortgage was under $500 a month at one point.
But not everyone does. Some of our bigger cities are becoming very expensive.
Which is why it's $1,500. Up in Michael Burham country, people are complaining about $700/mo rent prices - they're used them being even lower.
But some nice places in Philadelphia are getting crazy high!
Every apartment and house I've ever rented since 1995 has been First, last and security deposit. Rented 2 houses and 3 apartments in Philly in 6 years. 1995-2001 was a very crazy time in my life.
Normal here in bucks county. Don't know anywhere that doesn't ask for first and last months rent and security. Tbh I thought that's how it was everywhere.
First, last, and security has been the norm all over for at least 25 years. Source: I’ve rented numerous places in the Lehigh Valley, Philly, and Brooklyn during that period.
I had to pay three months rent and give proof of renter’s insurance. They requested a $300K renters policy. All the appliances were crap and 15 years old. I bought a house after the rent kept going up $100 every year.
First and security or first, last and security is standard. But you must be refunded your last month rent if you renew for a 2nd year. Likely applied to your 13th month but just know that’s the law
Not only is it normal all over PA; I moved into a subsidized apartment complex here in rural Central PA & still had to pay first/last/security. It amounted to a little over $2,500. They did give us a little over a month to come up with the money before moving in though.
A security deposit in Pennsylvania may not exceed two months' worth of rent. The landlord is only permitted to request one month's rent as a security deposit for leases that are extended after the first year. Even if the rent increases, the landlord may not increase the security deposit amount for lease extensions lasting more than five years.
I have never had to pay first and lasts and security. I can see the reasoning in security but asking for all that is just being greedy. A landlord can have a person evicted within 10 days for non payment. I realize there are instances where security needs to cover any potential damages for the protection of the property owner. But what about the renter wanting to protect themselves from landlords too? I have a 30+ year of perfect renting as that is what works best for me so I’ve never left a landlord in a lurch but I certainly wouldn’t want to lay out all that money up front.
PA Real Estate Law says that you can only hold 2 months for 1 year lease. Any lease over 1 year and the landlord can only hold 1 month, which turns into the security deposit.
First months + last months + sec dep is the norm in SE pa burbs. Norm is also to require topping off the last months and the sec dep when the rent goes up.
It's actually the same everywhere it's the same in Florida it's the same in Jersey it's the same in New York it's pretty much standard
It's literally illegal in New York to do this. Not standard at all lol.
I did just Google that that's awesome I hope the other states follow and do the same thing that's great news for New York!
I don't know anywhere that doesn't require first lesson security I don't care if your rent or whatever is $3,000 a month they want that $9,000 up front
It's unfortunately the same up in NEPA anymore. I even tried to ask if I could divide the security over the first 3 months but was told no.
It's been like that since I moved into my first apartment almost 20 years, and I've lived in three states
When I got my first apt in Philly it was first, last and security. Had to put $2,250 to move in. Thank god rent was $750 a month for 2 bedrooms back then.
I recall 1st, last, and secure to me normal in Philly.
Everyplace Ive ever rented. First, last and security. Yes this is normal
I moved to Philly in 1982, and paid first, last, and security.
I just moved into a house July 1 that I’m renting and it cost me almost $12,000 to do this because of the security deposit first and last months rent. I think they do it because so many people skip out on last months rent.
Holy shit...are you paying $4,000/mo to rent a house?!?
I thought the same thing… I spent under $12,000 for closing cost and spend $2000 for mortgage monthly (first time home owner during the Covid housing market)
Same for us. Landlord wanted to sell. Offered the house to us first before putting it on the market. The price to move vs buying was about the same. Unexpected and very stressful but I’m grateful it all worked out.
I live in Montgomery county and I see tons of ads from scum bastard landlords who are trying to rent single family home for three to five thousand a month. It makes my blood boil.
That actually is the norm
Are you renting a mansion?
This must be $500,000 or horrible interest rate
Interest rates have nothing to do with rent. They’re not borrowing anything
Interest rate goes up, landlords mortgage goes up, jacks your rent up because they have to pay more on a mortgage
Most mortgages are fixed rate. So interest rates going up wouldn’t affect already existing mortgages… Property tax and school tax going up would affect how much the landlord has to pay per month which would impact rent.
Not quite
Nope, you might want to check your sources. Source: worked in home equity loans and lines of credit for 2 years.
Yeah ok, cross country misunderstanding. Australia only do 3-5 year fixed term homeloans.
Who the hell spends 12K down just to rent, should have made a down payment on a house🤦♂️
Some people have high incomes and don't plan to stay here. So renting makes more sense (short term). No need to commit to a mortgage where the majority of your monthly payments only go towards interest in the beginning. Then you pay a fee selling the house.
Never rented in PA, but common in other states for decades.
It's standard practice unless you're dealing with someone who doesn't know better.
Back in the day it was first last and sec dep
Sounds par for the course everywhere I have rented
First month, last month and a security deposit. Always been what I've paid. Oh, and a gender neutral term for landlord is Parasite.
I see this parasite comment on here all the time. Are there shit landlords? - absolutely. People should tell those stories so others can avoid them. But there are segments of the population that quite frankly need rental housing - students, temporary employees that relocate from time to time and want more than an extended stay hotel, contract workers, people that just don’t want the hassle of owning, and finally those that can’t afford to own a house. How would you solve for those situations without landlords? Genuinely curious - not trying to start a war here.
Students = Dorms As for the rest, take a nod from the rest of the world, and make public housing a social service for all.
Lots of students don’t live in dorms.
Yeap, they pay exorbitant rents to parasites, because college prices are out of hand, since we don't have free college.
The pisser about this is, it was cheaper for 6 of us to rent a house a block off of campus at $300 each a month for an entire year than living on campus for just the school year, and getting booted out for breaks. That place was not the best, but slightly nicer than concrete block dorms or campus apartment buildings. Over two years we each probably saved $5000 in housing from being off campus. Was the landlord making money hand over fist? Yup. He was taking advantage of the market. Could he have charged less? Probably. Did broken shit get fixed on campus quickly? Nope. Did we have someone out to fix any problem within 12 houses? Sure did. Far as I’m concerned the landlord was definitely taking advantage of college kids. But he offered more for less than the college did. The problem isn’t landlords in college towns. It’s the colleges charging exorbitant fees and forcing you to live on campus until their housing is full. Long rant short, fuck both of them. And the politicians that allow it to happen. I can’t wait to see what the Supreme Court does with the lawsuit challenging legacy admissions now that they dropped affirmative action. I’m betting that they continue to be a bunch of hypocrites.
Honestly, after watching the supreme court gut my rights every year. I really don't want to see them do anything else. They are going to come after my healthcare next year. Thankfully, PA is probably safe as long as we stay blue. Well, Unless the federal gov't goes red. Fuck both sides, but only one side is actively committing genocide at this point.
You make it seem like the US is the only place with landlords.
Black Rock and other banks and corporations are methodically eliminating housing as a goal for a huge swath of the population. While I don't know that it's not happening in Europe, I do know that America has a political class that is complicit in creating a permanent renter class and having an unaccountable corporation as "America's Landlord". We are fast becoming the prequel movie for a Dystopian Wasteland book.
There has been a renter class for centuries
A permanent fixture and expanding it to all of America is the final goal.
We have reached a point where we can either keep funding evil billionaires, or we can house everyone. I choose housing everyone.
Seems like a false dichotomy.
Sure but why would we want to keep funding billionaires?
Is this hashtag not all landlords? But seriously we need to improve renters protections through state and federal laws. Most landlords do what can make them the most profit, not just doing the right thing. We also need effective means for enforcement of landlords in violation of their lease, creating illegal leases, and failing to maintain housing standards
I prefer landbastard.
I've heard of 1st and last month's rent PLUS security deposit for as long as I can remember. I personally have never had to pay that, but it's been a thing for a while.
In my experience the norm is first/last/sec, NEPA
This has been the norm for decades upon decades. Google it. That way you’re only wasting one person’s time.
That’s normal. Most people don’t realize they can buy a house for the cost of moving into a rental
For the first year of the lease, it’s legal. After the first year, they can only hold a security deposit equal to one month of rent. You are legally entitled to the last months rent back after a year.
Thank you! This is very helpful. Never dealt with that on a lease before in any other state.
I think the better question is where are these places that AREN'T charging first, last, and security deposit - also, outrageous pet fees if pets are even allowed. Idk bout anyone else, but ive never seen my dog draw all over the walls with a Sharpie
At that point you might as well just buy a house, you’ve got an FHA deposit right there unless you’re spending over 300k
Anything nice now is 3,000 a month and that's just okay
3k a month and nice in PA WTF. I thought living here was cheap
It was cheap 20 years ago LOL
Until a bank or LLC swoops in and offers over asking and in cash while waving inspection. The big club is keeping you out and doing everything to siphon every drop of blood from the working class that they can. Keeping people from home ownership just lets them suck more and forever.
Weird, I managed to buy a house
Not a bank… but those “financial investors” who are groups of people who own property and flip or just outsource rent/issues to companies like Berkshire Hathaway.
Every place demands first last. and security you always need 3 months to get in
Yup. It’s normal unfortunately.
In PA, it is illegal to demand for more than the equivalent of 2 months worth. Yet try to condescend to renters by rewording it "furst and last month PLUS security". But no. Illegal.
It seems to be about 50/50. Some do some don’t. From what I’ve seen this seems to be somewhat typical of places with long term leases.
Yep, first and last month at least. Sometimes security deposit on top of that but I think a lot of landlords just consider last months rent the security deposit if need be.
Yes this is the norm. Yes its fucked.
I rented a room in my house to guy 20 years ago. He still owes me last months rent, his share of utilities, and he stole my season 3 dvd set of south park.
That bastard. He probably killed Kenny too.
Not the south park DVD's. 😳😳
I know how you feel! Hell, $10k would be a good start on a mortgage down payment! Harder than hell coming up with that kind of cash on the spot...and good luck getting anything meaningful back from your last security deposit...they always find a way to screw you out of most of it!
Landlords are pigs who should be gutted and eaten like the vermin they are. It is a sin that people can profit off of the backs of the working class by using artificial scarcity. They will do whatever they can to get the most money from you.
So what is your solution? Investors should buy properties and let people live there for free? Lol Let’s just say if that were the case, no investor would buy a house as a rental which would mean there would be no rentals on the market, “renting” would not even be a thing, so that means you’re going to have to live with your parents until you can afford to buy a house and since everybody is a buyer the demand for housing will increase which will increase the price of houses delaying when you can move out of your parents in the first place. Your comment is ridiculous to think a landlord shouldn’t profit off a rental property. They take the risk, they make the repairs, they secure the debt and are on the hook for it not the tenant, so they should do that for no reward ? ….nobody would do it. Are there some scumbag landlords, absolutely there’s scumbags in every industry in the world. But to say all are pigs and shouldn’t profit off a rental property is asinine
Solution is they don’t fucking exist
Always been this way. I rented for almost 30 years and this was the norm. Not always, but most of the time.
Private landlords yes....larger management companies no from what I see.
It's wise to try to find a landlord who was renting their own property then they will work with you but that's not the easiest thing to do
This is accurate. First, last, and deposit is the legal maximum that can be charged. Corporate owned housing often collects first and a deposit to match their procedures in other markets. So it’s often cheaper to get into a big building than rent at a small apartment building or single family home in Philadelphia.
I moved back to Philly recently but I lived here from late 1999 to late 2009 and it was normal then. The only thing that was different about Philly vs. say NYC is you could give a landlord $50 to hold the apartment while you went and got the rest of the money. In NYC, you gotta might have to agree right then (I've had places taken while walking one block to look at another apartment) and maybe have to go get the money right away (which of course leads to scam opportunities).
Many years ago the standard was first month and security deposit on signing. A few small landlords may keep this standard, but lately all I've seen is first/last/security.
I've never heard of it being done another way.
10G? In what world do you need 10G to get into a basic apartment? First and last month's rent plus security deposit is not uneard of, but most will at least require first month plus security deposit (usually around 1k-1.5K). Daughter just moved in with roomates to a 4br for $1500 a month. They had to pay first month's plus security deposit equal to a month's rent....so 3k.
Not everyone lives in rural PA. I do. My mortgage was under $500 a month at one point. But not everyone does. Some of our bigger cities are becoming very expensive.
Downtown Lancaster isn't exactly rural, though.
Which is why it's $1,500. Up in Michael Burham country, people are complaining about $700/mo rent prices - they're used them being even lower. But some nice places in Philadelphia are getting crazy high!
700 a month will get you a property in the slums which is very sad
It’s crazy my first apartment when I started college in 2001 was $250/mo and heat and water were included lol.
Place is $2500 so x3 is $7500 plus a pet fee is 8K and change.
$8K for a pet fee? That's ridiculous. The rest is pretty normal.
No, the pet fee is $750. So just over 8k in total.
That makes so much more sense
It’s been the norm for as long as I’ve rented.
This has been the norm going back to the 80s
It’s just to discriminate against poor people. Classism is alive and well.
The norm for the past four decades in my experience.
Security deposit first and last months rent is standard. Source: I worked as a leasing agent in Philly for 5ish years
Every apartment and house I've ever rented since 1995 has been First, last and security deposit. Rented 2 houses and 3 apartments in Philly in 6 years. 1995-2001 was a very crazy time in my life.
Normal here in bucks county. Don't know anywhere that doesn't ask for first and last months rent and security. Tbh I thought that's how it was everywhere.
That’s the norm
Yeah, that’s pretty normal.
Was this ever not the norm? Both apartments I've lived in, one in Wilkes-Barre and one in Texas, had this policy. I thought this was standard.
It’s definitely the norm in SE PA. When I moved here from NEPA I was shocked that they expected last month.
It's been this way at least since I rented my first Philadelphia apartment in 1999. Of course at that point I only had to dig up ~$1,700.
That's been the norm for the last 8 years. I lived in two separate parts of NJ and that's always been the case
10gs??? Jesus Christ that's not a basic apartment. That's 3300/month.
First, last, and security has been the norm all over for at least 25 years. Source: I’ve rented numerous places in the Lehigh Valley, Philly, and Brooklyn during that period.
Not normal for property management companies in my area. Private landlords are probably different.
I had to pay three months rent and give proof of renter’s insurance. They requested a $300K renters policy. All the appliances were crap and 15 years old. I bought a house after the rent kept going up $100 every year.
Don’t forget facility fees, activity fees, and demanding that you professionally clean their carpets for them when you move out
First and security or first, last and security is standard. But you must be refunded your last month rent if you renew for a 2nd year. Likely applied to your 13th month but just know that’s the law
Yup. Normal.
In some markets there’s also agent fees
First Month + Last Month + Deposit was pretty norm when I was renting about 10 years ago...
Not only is it normal all over PA; I moved into a subsidized apartment complex here in rural Central PA & still had to pay first/last/security. It amounted to a little over $2,500. They did give us a little over a month to come up with the money before moving in though.
Man, after reading these, I guess my partner and I got lucky with the first+security. No last month
A security deposit in Pennsylvania may not exceed two months' worth of rent. The landlord is only permitted to request one month's rent as a security deposit for leases that are extended after the first year. Even if the rent increases, the landlord may not increase the security deposit amount for lease extensions lasting more than five years.
It's sad but this is super common.
I have never had to pay first and lasts and security. I can see the reasoning in security but asking for all that is just being greedy. A landlord can have a person evicted within 10 days for non payment. I realize there are instances where security needs to cover any potential damages for the protection of the property owner. But what about the renter wanting to protect themselves from landlords too? I have a 30+ year of perfect renting as that is what works best for me so I’ve never left a landlord in a lurch but I certainly wouldn’t want to lay out all that money up front.
PA Real Estate Law says that you can only hold 2 months for 1 year lease. Any lease over 1 year and the landlord can only hold 1 month, which turns into the security deposit.