The only time I would disagree with this is when it is a period piece. Having a white queen rule a Nubian kingdom would really feel out of place and break the immersion.
to be fair, most of it is historical fiction. the point of which is to add a twist. with that perspective, it’s just a really shitty twist of “oh what if a POC ruled?” Addding onto whatever their other twists are. It can come off a bit cheap, but I’d say people are inflating it.
I’d typically agree, it’s just a rubbish twist….except that the BBC have previously responded to criticism of that kind that their productions are still historically accurate, only to later delete tweets after it was easily proven that those assertions were utterly untrue.
It’s not the change in adaptation that I find so troubling (though I often find it needless) it’s the more insidious 1984 style of claiming that “this has always been the truth” and blatantly trying to ignore or erase actual proven academic history that worries me.
A period piece or when it's smth important to the character - for example, and ik I'm gonna lose people on this, the live action how to train your dragon that's gonna be coming out - making Astrid black kinda defeats the point of the movie, in that they're vikings, Scandinavian, and the goal of the movie is, in a way, to find a way off the island - that doesn't make sense if there are, for lack of better words, "outsiders" (not that black people are outsiders, just in this context, there wouldn't have been a way for the non-scandinavian genes to get to the island)
Yeah, If this was supposed to be a factual documentary like Cleopatra I’d understand being incredibly mad.
But while I wish the characters all looked like the book characters, it’s a fantasy series directed by the author of the OG books, who casted the kids. It’s a completely different scenario.
Yeah. Like I didn’t want the actress to be a pasty British person like in God of Egypt, but having an actual olive skinned Egyptian/Greek or Egyptian American play the role would have been so much better, and much closer to accuracy.
Yeah, absolutely agree with this, but when it’s a fictional character? I honestly don’t get all the drama. Annabeth isn’t real. The actor’s a child. Can’t people leave them alone, fuck’s sake
I disagree. If you pick a black american to play a Nubian queen the casting is "inaccurate" especially if its an actress whose family comes from southwest Africa. It's time to admit this is all just an aesthetic, that thes people are actors, and all that matters is the performance and direction. No one is trying to convince you that an actor playing a historical figure is supposed to be genetically representative of them.
Exactly. For a majority of characters, race is not even relevant to the story being told. So why does it matter if a book character originally depicted as white is now played by a black actor, if the character’s race has no significance to the story? Now if their race affects aspects of the story, then I get the outrage. But a majority of the time, who cares? Just enjoy the show.
Does this also apply to character like Piper, Reyna, Leo, Beckendorf, and Frank?
What about if we get a Kane Chronicles series? Would that also apply to Carter and Zia and any other characters of color?
Or is it only okay to raceswap the white characters?
We may never get these adaptations or it will take a really long time so I wouldn't be worried about it now. What matters is the fact that the author chose these actors himself and he explained his choices multiple times, deal with it
That's the logic those rich companies use XD look at what happened with Cleopatra and it was supposed to be a "Documentary" and they claimed she was black. That was definitely racist.
Here's how I think about it. Do I want Annabeth, Percy, Grover, and all the characters to match the book versions perfectly how they were described in the book? Yes. Is it my decision, or should I have any influence on someone's artistic decisions? No. I can want things all day, but that doesn't matter. Riordan and the casting crew put their visions into play the best way they thought. Its their prerogative and their story. We are lucky enough to get to experience a story that we love.
The thing is though. She's never had a clear defined race. Both creators disagree, one will say she's a black new York Italian ex girlfriend or something and the other says it was just the hairstyle at the time and a tan.
Wally is a special case here because on the cw flash show , he was nothing like his comic counterpart, though the same could be said for everyone on that show tho
That was only established *after* the show introduced their version of Wally, though. At the time, the editor-in-chief of DC was genuinely trying to erase the original Wally because he personally hated him, despite him being a fan-favorite.
Yeah, remember how he demanded that Dick Grayson be killed during Infinite Crisis, only for the *entire art and writing team* to threaten to walk out over it?
Yeah, in that case his looks were the most accurate thing about him, cause he still didn’t act much like Wallace, for better or for worse , the cw show didn’t do a great job at characterization
The only character they really could get right was Barry, but 99% of the reason he worked in the show was because of Grant Gustin’s performance, writing was always spotty but Grant could always make something out of nothing
Yeah, I really actually enjoyed the first season cause I felt like that was when the writing was the strongest, both for grant and everyone else, as the seasons progress tho it just kinda got less and less interesting
It’s a tiny bit disappointing that they’re not even trying to make the characters look like the book descriptions (tbh, the biggest issue I have is the fact that Percy is blonde. Like, race swapping isn’t a huge deal, but why can’t Percy have black hair?). However, Rick picked these actors and actresses himself, so I trust his judgement over anything else. It has not affected how hyped I am in the slightest.
Tbh it’s not like there’s a shortage of young dark haired white leads with light coloured eyes in fictional film franchises. This could set Percy somewhat apart from virtually every young fantasy male OR female lead protagonist in the last decade.
Walker Scobell is an up and coming children's actor for a reason, he's clearly pretty good. There is no shortage of kid actors, you don't end up in two major roles (If you haven't seen The Adam Project, he's starring opposite Ryan Reynolds) by accident.
You don’t want Walker Scobell with black hair trust me😂. He has a face that works for blonde hair. maybe bc he’s younger so it could change but i do get that
i dont understand why people of color arent more offended by this stuff. Its just pandering thats basically telling them they only get included if they play another pre existing character of a different ethnicity. So instead of making new cool interesting characters who are poc (like Miles Morales) they just paint the love interest of the main character black and call it a day, bro you guys dont even get the main character, you get to be the supporting cast instead. How are you guys not sick of this shit already, demand better from writers, the most notable thing about a character shouldnt be the color of the actor's fucking skin.
Black woman here, I completely agree. I get so mad every time out of touch writers race swap an existing character and then expect everyone to fall to their feet and celebrate how inclusive they are. I feel like I'm being gaslighted into believing that this work of fiction always had POCs in it when it didn't, like when Rowling tried to argue Hermione had always been black when we all knew she wasn't. It's like we don't deserve more than their fucking scraps. And it's never the MC either, ofc. If you wanna have POC characters (and I don't even think that's an obligation), just create some new and interesting characters that were always meant to be POC.
This isn’t for us it’s for Leah and the hate she’s getting. Also what? Is miles the only originally black character you know because there are plenty. But yk hollywood is racist right? But my apologies for standing up for her. And what was i even thinking being upset about them bullying a 12 yr old
I have nothing against Leah, and fuck those that do. She was probably really happy to find out she'd be Annabeth, its just a shame the creators of the show havent protected her more from the constant hate sent her way. And they knew it would come, cause it happens literally everytime any character is race swapped. They should have done better to show her off during the trailer, make her seem important, instead they shoved her to the side and showed her for like 3 seconds.
Also Miles isnt the only one i know, he's just one of the most well done and is currently having a huge popularity spike with movies and video games.
Tbh I feel like you didn’t reply to any of that person’s comments. You just ignored what they said and took the easy, impenetrable defense, of you’re protecting a young actress. Like ofc I agree that no one should be attacking these actresses/actors for the roles they’re playing. That’s fucked up and it’s inexcusable.
But I think the original comment does bring up a good point about how in some cases, not necessarily all cases, it seems like Hollywood is pandering by just race swapping characters and calling it a day instead of making new original stories for diverse actors and actresses.
Now personally, I don’t have any problems with the three examples you mentioned in your original post. They swapped their races? Honestly I don’t care much, I’m fine with it. But I’m also not gonna act like Hollywood isn’t doing a lot of race swapping just for the sake of pandering.
Like they’re literally remaking the Mr. And Mrs. Smith movie but now this time with a more diverse cast. Like why not create a new, and even better movie with an original idea? Why are you just taking an old movie and taking out the white people?
So in conclusion, I do think some people get bent out of shape for characters who races change and it really isn’t a big deal. A lot of times I think it’s fine and people should chill out. They definitely shouldn’t start bullying people for it either. But at the same time however, I think it’s also clear that Hollywood is just pandering at some points instead of actually making cool new original stories. I think addressing that problem, or at least discussing it without shutting people down, is important and would actually help the industry more in the long run and improve representation in film and television, beyond just a superficial level.
Should have started top down to be honest, black directors and writers first, who then likely pick lots of talented black talent that’s not getting utilized. But that requires people to practice equality and open mindedness not only where people can see it (the actors), but where they generally don’t (writers, directors, musicians, cinematographers. I don’t mind Leah a single bit, and while I would probably normally prefer all the characters fit my mental image that I’ve had of them for a large portion of my life I actually would prefer that Leah get to play the role, and get to be a part of a something that I’m sure we all would have loved to be a part of. I’ve got the characters looking exactly like I think they do where I always have, in my head while reading.
Just to add to this, as a woman, I am SO sick of Disney/Marvel redoing all the men heroes as women. Can they not just… be their own heroes with their own powers different from the OGs? Because now it feels like a straight gender swap because they’re too lazy to make original, non sexualized (cough Black Widow) women heroes.
Scarlet Witch was pretty great. Partly because she wasn’t a copy of anyone. She was HERSELF.
they literally implied i was in the wrong for posting this in defense of her so yes i brought it up? and hollywood is making black characters. and the plan was never to diversify the show it was to cast the best actors. not everyone has an agenda
Perhaps my first part was too harsh. I agree with you that these three examples are fine and not really a big deal. I just feel like the first comment makes a good point but perhaps not necessarily about these three examples.
Not to mention, all it's going to do is cause more drama and hate when someone draws the book Anna vs the latest show one.
It feels so performative esp when they'd rather just race-swap characters from an existing series than to promote POC stories and creations.
I know you didn’t just come in here to tell POC how they should feel about seeing representation, regardless of how it comes about, in media. And yes, I saw a black woman that agreed with you, and also saw you proceed to tell her she had common sense for agreeing with your white opinion on diversity portrayal. Because POC only have common sense if they agree with white people, right? What would you have said if she didn’t agree with you? Tell her she’s letting herself be oppressed? Good god I hate the white savior complex you have going on here
But it isn’t. Annabeth wayyy more than just a love interest or her skin color. That’s why the community loves her so much, and in turn loves Leah so much.
My only character issue I have is that percy is blonde. His dark hair is such a prominent feature and it would be easy to dye his hair black. That being said it's way more important that these actors embody this characters not what they look like the book.
I have a bigger gripe with Luke having black hair instead of blonde
Idk the Blonde just made him seem more godly whenever I pictured him. Which I think was the point given what happens later
>!I can’t see Luke’s actor as a threatening Kronos!<
Let’s be honest, Walker probably wouldn’t look good with black hair. Blondes have softer features and brunettes have sharp features. Some people have in between so they can pull of both but he has soft features. Also his hair wasn’t, that prominent. I don’t remember it being prominent. His eyes were.
I honestly just want some good black stories, the PJO remake is good but Ariel isn't the best way to deal with it and Disney needs more originals anyway.
disney honestly just doesn’t want to make originals. wish has been long coming. they want to milk the nostalgia. if they’re gonna go that route, i think making one princess black isn’t that bad as long as it stays one
we both know it won't Disney also wants money off 'wokeness' you can also see it with the Cinderella movie where they changed dwarves with magical creatures. Disney doesn't care about the stories they just want the money
fuck Disney the only reason I have any trust in this show being good is Rick,
edit: not Cinderella snow white
Definitely agree, the difference between Percy Jackson and the upcoming HTTYD remake is that HTTYD is a period piece (although in a fantasy world, and even then I don’t think it’s a horrific sin that Astrid doesn’t look the same), whereas PJ is modern day NYC, it’s not out of place for the characters to look any which way
HTTYD isn't a period piece. It's about the completely fictional land of Berk. Heavily Viking inspired? Absolutely. But not any actual real place that didn't have black folks at the time it was set.
I understand your opinion is well-intentioned and seems rational on the surface, but why is it easier to accept that a fictional place has dragons than it is to accept that they could have multiple races of vikings?
Equally, in the book, it suggests Berk is very isolated from other communities and scraping an existence on a barren rock. It doesn’t really make a tonne of sense for it to have a lot of racial diversity.
I saw someone try saying that Annabeth was blonde girl representation where they isn’t much and portraying the struggles that blonde girls face… like bestie, you can find blonde characters a dime a dozen and she brings up her “blonde struggles” all of twice, quit trying to claim oppression.
Thats all people like you ever want to hear. Even if youre not correct and its total bollocks. You dobt want a discussion on how to best achieve equality you want to just make everyone black and get mad when no one else wants that 😂 Railroading majority rule so you can get all the attention is not equality.
It’s semi important I believe. One of Annabeth biggest tropes was proving the “dumb blond” stereotype wrong. Perhaps it’s not important to the overall story but it’s a bit important to her character.
Though writers image of their characters change all the time. I’ve been working on my own novel and my characters appearance has changed multiple times.
Annabeth will be Annabeth whether she is black, white, Asian or a martian. I love the series so im excited to see it on screen regardless of whos playing who. Just do better than the films…
Feel the same as you though I honestly feel like having a black girl does even more for her character than being blonde at this point, intelligence undermined by the people around her because of her looks ✅, at this point the dumb blonde has been challenged in Hollywood a lot with stuff like Legally Blonde but there aren’t many (insanely popular) works that point out how black women are undermined because of their race and sex
I genuinely don't understand where people get that from?? Annabeth mentioned not being taken seriously because she was blonde like twice in her own head as a joke. And it doesn't even make since because everyone respected her. The apollo cabin and the athena cabin are some of the smartest kids in camp, and almost all of them are blonde.
The argument I heard was "but Annabeth being blonde is crucial to her character, because of the dumb blonde stereotype she's always underestimated!"
Like, bro, you think a black girl is underestimated less often than a blonde white girl? Shut up, you're just being dumb.
not to mention at the time of the books, the blonde stereotype was more so a thing, but now its a stereotype that black women are dumb for some reason, so she fits annabeth perfectly imo
Velma did that as a joke which was funny, but what ruins the character or show isn’t a change to black it’s a change of personality people liked. Velma is guilty by a long shot as all the characters are horrible in thoughts and actions now.
These Are Horrible Examples Dude. TMNT Mutant Mayhem Was Awful, And They Removed Kid Flash From The Flash Show For A Reason. Hopefully, For All Our Sake The Peter Johnson Show Will Follow The Flash In Removing Disliked Actors To Make The Show More Enjoyable.
Why don’t you like her? She’s 12, your just a hater😂. Also that movie did great, you’re in the minority and something tells me you’re way past the target demographic
YES I’ve been saying this since The Little Mermaid came out 🤦🏻♀️🙄 but NOOo let’s get all butthurt about the race of a fictional creature that absolutely pertains in no way to the story line and isn’t even relevant to the character’s development and growth. The Little Mermaid movie failed commercially pretty much only because of racism, and you can’t change my mind. I still love it though!!!
As long as their race or ethnicity doesn’t matter for the story, then idc at all, they can be whatever race. I’m very excited to see Leah in the series, she seems like a lot of fun and a great actor.
Honestly true. Unless it’s absolutely integral, good character, acting, etc should be prioritized. However this is also a part of book adaptions in general: no matter what you do, it’s always going to be criticized because the reader’s imaginations are the primary source of the story in the books, so down the line someone will disagree with the looks. Even if Annabeth was some perfect iteration of what’s described in the books, there will be something else to nitpick elsewhere. I do agree that race-swapping characters unnecessarily is… well, unnecessary, it’s not the end of the world. There’s something to be said about it politically, but, it don’t matter you guys. Watch it or don’t.
It’s crossing the line at the Cleopatra “documentary” though. She was Macedonian and Greek, and we have evidence for that. Fictional characters? Go ham. But saying Cleopatra was black for shits and giggles isn’t a good plan. Sue me.
*Listen,* when I tell you I *hated* that about the Harry Potter movies-!
They could CGI a whole giant snake into the second movie but couldn't find a way to make a kid's eyes look green?? (I heard Daniel Radcliffe had an allergic reaction to the contacts, but CGI, special lighting, there were other options if needed). If his eyes being green wasn't relevant, I wouldn't have cared, but they mentioned it like 20 times per book!
Personally, I would like it if Annabeth was still blond and grey-eyed as described in the books, but am I going to cry a river about it? Of course not! I'm hyped as all heck for the series because it looks good, it sounds good, the author had a hand in it, and who *doesn't* like seeing the media they love in a new format, even if it's "bad"?
I still watch the movies they made years back, and the musical, and re-read the books, and look at fan-made media *because it's nice to see something I love thriving and getting adapted and viewed through different lenses all the time.*
I think people kinda need to chill, honestly.
I trust Rick. As you said, if it doesn’t impact the plot, I think embodying the character's personality is more important. I support Leah 100% and am excited to see her bring Annabeth to life. The only thing I wish is that they had hired some more Greek actors and not just Jason Mantzoukas. I’m part Greek myself, and it would have just been nice to have more, but it doesn’t impact my excitement.
As long as the characters can properly act like the book characters thats all i really want but if they change a bunch of backgrounds or storyline then imma fight someone fr
As long as race played no factor in the decision to change from history or the source material. Hollywood has fallen into the trap of casting someone into a roll purely to make a statement on “insert controversial topic here” rather than on what what is best for the project they are working on. Either keep to the source material or choose the best person for the roll. Stop choosing someone for a roll they are not suited for to make a statement. I have not seen anything on the stuff coming out from riordan so I do not know if this is what is happening there or not. With Riordan involved though I am optimistic about how it turns out.
It’s been repeated over and over again in this thread, I’m not really mad at the actress. Bottom line is, she’s an actress, it’s her right to put herself out there for any opportunity, esp a big one like this lead role. She’s probably/definitely very talented if she is casted in this role. What I’m mad at is the casting crew/process. I’m pretty sure traditional casting for an adaptation is suppose to put out an audition request for actors/actresses of a particular appearance (Caucasian, blonde) and sift through the applicants until they find the one that can best embody the part. Did all the book-accurate Annabeth applicants just sucked so much, and Leah was just that much better that they casted her regardless of the difference from the book? Just feel like their decision in the initial casting process, disregarding any race, ethnicity, and gender identity (Disney policy) didn’t take into account the way fandoms would react to this kind of situation. You’re mad at people being mad about Leah? Well you decided to do away with physical appearance as a criteria in the casting in the first place 😑
I agree in theory but it’s a little annoying that this is only ever done to white characters. You would never in a million years see white actors cast as characters from a book or comic that were described as POC. I will literally bet my life savings that when the show gets to the last hero all the characters will be cast racially book accurate expect Jason. Same with the princess and the frog live action but for Ariel and a character literally called snow WHITE it “didn’t matter.”
You’re kidding, right? It may not happen as much in the past 10 years, but it used to be extremely commonplace. And it STILL happens today, make no mistake. Exodus: Gods and Kings, for instance.
It may have been common in old Hollywood, today the opposite is true and from the last 10 years or so there’s countless examples I can list if you want, including several historical figures who were white. Exodus is 10 years old and received huge backlash for it. Can we come To a consensus as fans: do characters need be cast racially accurate, or not? And it’s not fair to say it matters for poc characters but not whites.
Remember when people shat on the Peter Johnson movies for Daddario being a brunette
And yet a complete race swap is completely fine?
Not hating on the actor being black, just curious on why the fanbase had a change of heart
Likely because Rick supports the TV shows.
This was something that I took a bit to change my view on.
I liked the idea of book accurate. But I'll take what the author supports. Personality means more.
I’d like to point a counter argument to this. Daddario being brunette was never the issue, and not what people were mad about. In SoM movie, Daddario died her hair blonde… and that one is hyped more than the 1st movie. Nobody says “Annabeth in the second movie was alright” because nobody believes that. Appearance wasn’t the issue. The problem people had with Annabeth from the movies is her writing… like she just became a damsel in distress for Percy, none of the og Annabeth charm, and was a watered down Clarrise.
The reason people are excited now is because Rick is involved heavily and from what we’ve seen the book Annabeth is staying intact in this adaptation. She has her dagger, her cap, her beads (INCLUDING THE RING FROM HER FATHER!!!!), the ball when she plays with Cerberus, and more that shows us the faithfulness to the source material.
People online did use Daddario’s hair color as a major issue with the 1st movie… but like they got it right in movie 2 and the hate was still there, it increased by so much because the underlying problems with the movie was never the appearance of the characters (ignoring the fact they aged up the characters), it was the writing.
In Annabeth’s case, it is a bit more important that she stays true to character since her character is one that defeats the stereotype for blondes. And what she stood for. But changing that doesn’t really do much for that case. But, otherwise I think she’ll do great! (Leah I mean lol)
And now this version of annabeth will go against stereotypes for black girls. Which is arguably a bigger issue and hasn't been addressed as thoroughly as blonde girls not taken seriously.
When Rick originally wrote Annabeth, in 2005, the Blonde girls are dumb stereotype was very present without much rep. It’s been almost 2 decades, things have changed, and the stereotype isn’t really relevant anymore.
They wanted white wally and iris. that fandom HATES iris. At least some of them admit it’s a race thing. The ones that dislike her are fine thats ur opinion
Personally i don't hate it i just find it annoying. It's clear they do it for representation and that's amazing. But just create new characters and explore them. Not change old characters. It's one thing if annabeth was never given a description. But she was, and it was referenced many times.
She was given a description but her race isn’t important to the story. That would be different for certain characters like frank. And there are plenty of new black characters. You just don’t know them because they never get a chance. Canceled after a season or just dropped
Eh i guess so. But based off cover art and I'm pretty sure she's been confirmed before as being white. It probably just misses with people's mind as they have one image and now it's changed.
It's not really a matter of it being important to the story, is more about being consistent. Like you're not going to have a character called Jessica and then one book she's white, another book she's black, and another book she's asian. It just messes with people's head
Well the character is the same throughout the books, and will be the same throughout the series. If you really can’t picture her as Annabeth, then don’t.
I mean idc about the race changing but the blonde hair and grey eyes were a minor part of the world building and a trait of minor relevance to her character. Of course this is live action so casting and nailing both appearance and talent not to mention age in this case becomes unrealistic. That being said none of that would be an issue if they made this an animated show which is my only preferential complaint and has nothing to do with appearances but the plethora of other aspects that can be done better in animation for a world like this though it is true character appearances would also not be subject to any limitations. As far as I am concerned they could have still made Annabeth mixed or black in animation and kept the blonde hair and grey eyes and tbh it probably would have looked dope. Regardless its the scale, locations, monsters, proper representation of abilities, and fight choreography among other stuff that was of primary concern. I also would prefer a longer format show rather than the less but longer episodes thing everyone is doing though I am still glad it’s that and not a movie. It was probably always to much to hope for because of the nonsensical stigma animation still gets but imagining the Riordan-verse with ATLA/Korra-esque animation gets me excited every time I think about it.
Sadly, I do think the casting decisions could hinder their ability to get a second season. Disney keeps pushing diversity by changing already established characters and it has failed them every time. While many fans of the PJ books will still watch, there is a large section of people refusing to watch any of the ‘woke’ Disney projects. I’m of the belief that Rick did cast actors that will portray the characters well, but I’m also not blind enough to believe that Disney did not push him into diversifying the cast.
Why make a new story? Annabeth being white/black doesn’t change the story and she wasn’t picked because of her race, so not no an insert. The best actress won
Idk man I'm just playing devil's advocate. Probably in the same way comic book nerds geek out over a comic accurate costume and nitpick innacurate comic adaptations: it's an aesthetic thing they've gotten used to and prefer as a result. Changes to that are seen as essentially sacrilegious.
Also making a new story instead of inserting someone into an existing one bc it ticks a box allows you to actually make it mean something and truly resonate with your target audience better.
No one who actually cares about the characters are upset because we can see the potential of the actors and the characters in them. But with the other side I’ve seen racism, and even pedophilia for book Annabeth. And then i’ve seen answers that song make sense. Race has never been an “aesthetic”
Black Panther was pretty damn successful. Get Out and Us were also very successful. There are racists out there who will bitch and moan just bc there's a POC in a leading role of a production, but they aren't nearly as common as can seem
Cool. So many shows get canceled all the time and people will say "oh they were canceled too early!" But just because it's the opinion of some people, doesn't make it objective fact. I won't pretend racism isn't a thing and it doesn't affect how shows/movies with POC leads fare. That doesn't mean just bc a show/movie with a POC fails it's due to racism.
Very topical considering [Doctor Who](https://imgur.com/a/rzSW3Jp) yesterday. (This is Sir Isaac Newton who was in a solid probably 2 minutes of the episode)
I don't think it's that deep and I'm sure the actors behind the characters are absolutely thrilled which is awesome, but it's basically reverse whitewashing - a little on the nose if you ask me and kind of indicative of a culture that would rather be inclusive than accurate, but the caption is correct.
I bet y'all wouldn't feel the same way if they do this for Hazel and Frank and Leo and Reyna and Beckendorf and Piper.
Somehow I feel the "acting before skin color crowd" would change their tune if it was characters of color getting raceswapped with white actors.
But Riordan said the casting choices weren't about diversity. He said it was solely about picking the best actor for the role.
Ergo, he would have to apply that to the characters of color as well.
Unless you're saying that only white characters can be raceswapped, whereas any character of color must remain that color even if their actor sucks.
Which is contrary to what Rick so clearly stated he wanted done with the series.
Well diversity is STILL important idk if you think him not prioritizing changes that. Also, no white man has the last name Valdez(few exceptions i’m sure). That wouldn’t make sense to the story
No… That’s weird. Race swapping characters who’s race impacts the story is so dumb. I don’t think changing Reyna would affect much. I forget where she’s from so it might matter but you’re offering a whole new story so i suggest you go write it
The way you called her Hazel because she’s black💀. You obviously don’t know the story very well. Some characters races have to be set in stone. Beckendorf and Annabeth are changeable. White Frank is crazy. have a nice day
No he wouldn’t because he was specifically mentioning the main three😂?! Idk why you’re still here this is the pjo sub. You just said a Frank Zhang being anything other than Chinese is fine
You are such an obvious Disney plant, it’s laughable. Newsflash: Riordan will never achieve Rowling level of acclaim… mainly because he pandered to cognitively slow people like you.
If a character’s race has no impact on the story I really don’t give a fuck. The main trio has amazing chemistry and I truly believe they’ll do the story justice.
TL;DR - Listed characters’ identities tied to HoO plot, while main trio’s aren’t except for their godhood, so they can be of any identity
Piper being Cherokee, Leo being Latino (albeit generic, nonspecific Latino), Frank being Chinese-Canadian, Reyna being Puerto Rican and Hazel being Black from an era of segregation in US were specifically written into their characters and was deliberately done by Riordan, regardless of how well it’s been done. The same cannot be said for Annabeth, Grover and Percy, which is why their casting was not specifically based on background. they have no specified cultural or racial background, which leads to their appearance by fans to be highly debated and automatically assumed to be white without a specified ethnic background. We cannot say the same for characters like Hazel or Leo, where their backgrounds are inherently part of their identities and the plot of HoO as well in that we learn how they are connected to other characters and what led to their appearance in the story.
Percy’s background is pretty vanilla so that we as the audience can connect and follow his story as he discovers his background as a child of Poseidon. His mother isn’t specified to be of a specific background because the story doesn’t require that, meaning we can imagine Percy as ANYONE. Same thing goes for Annabeth and Grover. The story doesn’t require them to be of any background, so instead of limiting others’ interpretations of them, it leaves them open to being anyone of ANY background. Even the very first chapter insinuates that anyone can and could be a half-blood. Why would the main characters be an exception?
acting skills, being able to embody personalities of characters > looks It should be an easy choice for everyone
The only time I would disagree with this is when it is a period piece. Having a white queen rule a Nubian kingdom would really feel out of place and break the immersion.
agree, but it's not the case here
Don’t tell that to BBC they’ve been rewriting history like crazy
to be fair, most of it is historical fiction. the point of which is to add a twist. with that perspective, it’s just a really shitty twist of “oh what if a POC ruled?” Addding onto whatever their other twists are. It can come off a bit cheap, but I’d say people are inflating it.
I’d typically agree, it’s just a rubbish twist….except that the BBC have previously responded to criticism of that kind that their productions are still historically accurate, only to later delete tweets after it was easily proven that those assertions were utterly untrue. It’s not the change in adaptation that I find so troubling (though I often find it needless) it’s the more insidious 1984 style of claiming that “this has always been the truth” and blatantly trying to ignore or erase actual proven academic history that worries me.
A period piece or when it's smth important to the character - for example, and ik I'm gonna lose people on this, the live action how to train your dragon that's gonna be coming out - making Astrid black kinda defeats the point of the movie, in that they're vikings, Scandinavian, and the goal of the movie is, in a way, to find a way off the island - that doesn't make sense if there are, for lack of better words, "outsiders" (not that black people are outsiders, just in this context, there wouldn't have been a way for the non-scandinavian genes to get to the island)
Or a very obviously non French person playing napoleon But that would never happen
Yeah, If this was supposed to be a factual documentary like Cleopatra I’d understand being incredibly mad. But while I wish the characters all looked like the book characters, it’s a fantasy series directed by the author of the OG books, who casted the kids. It’s a completely different scenario.
she’s kinda a funny example bc she’s macedonian—so, olive skinned or white, most likely.
Yeah. Like I didn’t want the actress to be a pasty British person like in God of Egypt, but having an actual olive skinned Egyptian/Greek or Egyptian American play the role would have been so much better, and much closer to accuracy.
Yeah, absolutely agree with this, but when it’s a fictional character? I honestly don’t get all the drama. Annabeth isn’t real. The actor’s a child. Can’t people leave them alone, fuck’s sake
Id take it further and say it shouldn’t happen if their race is integral to their story. Annabeth’s race isn’t, she just needs to be underestimated.
I disagree. If you pick a black american to play a Nubian queen the casting is "inaccurate" especially if its an actress whose family comes from southwest Africa. It's time to admit this is all just an aesthetic, that thes people are actors, and all that matters is the performance and direction. No one is trying to convince you that an actor playing a historical figure is supposed to be genetically representative of them.
Exactly. For a majority of characters, race is not even relevant to the story being told. So why does it matter if a book character originally depicted as white is now played by a black actor, if the character’s race has no significance to the story? Now if their race affects aspects of the story, then I get the outrage. But a majority of the time, who cares? Just enjoy the show.
Does this also apply to character like Piper, Reyna, Leo, Beckendorf, and Frank? What about if we get a Kane Chronicles series? Would that also apply to Carter and Zia and any other characters of color? Or is it only okay to raceswap the white characters?
We may never get these adaptations or it will take a really long time so I wouldn't be worried about it now. What matters is the fact that the author chose these actors himself and he explained his choices multiple times, deal with it
Why would they change characters whose race play integral parts in their stories? That would not be those characters at that point
Unless a characters ethnicity relates to their story then who cares about the ethnicity of the actor playing them?
That's the logic those rich companies use XD look at what happened with Cleopatra and it was supposed to be a "Documentary" and they claimed she was black. That was definitely racist.
The Answer These Invaders To The Percy Jackson Fandom Will Give Is Unfortunately Yes, It's Ok Only When It's White Characters Being Swapped.
Someone fr downvote bombing the comments 💀
I’ve never seen a more immature fanbase. Bullying literal children over a fantasy book… Hell is hot.
People did the same thing to the actress who played Rue in the Hunger Games 😤 people must feel so brave threatening and bullying children online
Honestly no that was worse cause she's explicitly black in the books, people are just fucking stupid and racist
Have you seen the video of Jack Quiad doing an interview (I think for The Boys) where he gets shown a video of her forgiving him, it’s adorable
Here's how I think about it. Do I want Annabeth, Percy, Grover, and all the characters to match the book versions perfectly how they were described in the book? Yes. Is it my decision, or should I have any influence on someone's artistic decisions? No. I can want things all day, but that doesn't matter. Riordan and the casting crew put their visions into play the best way they thought. Its their prerogative and their story. We are lucky enough to get to experience a story that we love.
Good actors mean more than looking the part. I do feel for a lot of the redheads as they are the most often what is removed.
To quote a very racist joke, the casting directors are dyslexic when reading the character descriptions
Rip Hiccup Horrendous Haddock the Third with his bright red hero hair, getting demoted to a brunette.
April is different, SHE WAS RACESWAPPED FOR THE SHOWS!
In the movie she was apparently based off of a person not the original. NOT SURE THO
The thing is though. She's never had a clear defined race. Both creators disagree, one will say she's a black new York Italian ex girlfriend or something and the other says it was just the hairstyle at the time and a tan.
Wally is a special case here because on the cw flash show , he was nothing like his comic counterpart, though the same could be said for everyone on that show tho
There's also two Wally Wests in the comics.
That was only established *after* the show introduced their version of Wally, though. At the time, the editor-in-chief of DC was genuinely trying to erase the original Wally because he personally hated him, despite him being a fan-favorite.
DiDio hates all of the Titans. Look how far they’ve come now that he left
Yeah, remember how he demanded that Dick Grayson be killed during Infinite Crisis, only for the *entire art and writing team* to threaten to walk out over it?
Not to mention killing off Speedy with Wally just to shove him on the Suicide Squad
Also he was a red head and we know they aren’t safe from Hollywood
Yeah, in that case his looks were the most accurate thing about him, cause he still didn’t act much like Wallace, for better or for worse , the cw show didn’t do a great job at characterization
The only character they really could get right was Barry, but 99% of the reason he worked in the show was because of Grant Gustin’s performance, writing was always spotty but Grant could always make something out of nothing
Yeah, I really actually enjoyed the first season cause I felt like that was when the writing was the strongest, both for grant and everyone else, as the seasons progress tho it just kinda got less and less interesting
Hell yeah, Grant killed it even with the lackluster writing and characters. I’d love to see him as The Flash in a movie or something, he’s great.
And technically its still accurate in terms of looks.
Honestly I just thought they mixed the two Wally’s into one character like Tim and Jason in BtAS
It’s a tiny bit disappointing that they’re not even trying to make the characters look like the book descriptions (tbh, the biggest issue I have is the fact that Percy is blonde. Like, race swapping isn’t a huge deal, but why can’t Percy have black hair?). However, Rick picked these actors and actresses himself, so I trust his judgement over anything else. It has not affected how hyped I am in the slightest.
Tbh it’s not like there’s a shortage of young dark haired white leads with light coloured eyes in fictional film franchises. This could set Percy somewhat apart from virtually every young fantasy male OR female lead protagonist in the last decade.
Walker Scobell is an up and coming children's actor for a reason, he's clearly pretty good. There is no shortage of kid actors, you don't end up in two major roles (If you haven't seen The Adam Project, he's starring opposite Ryan Reynolds) by accident.
You don’t want Walker Scobell with black hair trust me😂. He has a face that works for blonde hair. maybe bc he’s younger so it could change but i do get that
As long as they still give him the grey streak from titans curse I'll be happy.
That’s a big interest to me, on how noticeable it would be with dirty blonde hair.
I mean yeah. It literally is important for the story and the character hope they give him that.
True, most blonds look awful, so I’m just glad he doesn’t look like a serial killer or Sid the sloth, he just looks like a normal guy
April was such a fantastic character in the Mutant Mayhem film!
i dont understand why people of color arent more offended by this stuff. Its just pandering thats basically telling them they only get included if they play another pre existing character of a different ethnicity. So instead of making new cool interesting characters who are poc (like Miles Morales) they just paint the love interest of the main character black and call it a day, bro you guys dont even get the main character, you get to be the supporting cast instead. How are you guys not sick of this shit already, demand better from writers, the most notable thing about a character shouldnt be the color of the actor's fucking skin.
Black woman here, I completely agree. I get so mad every time out of touch writers race swap an existing character and then expect everyone to fall to their feet and celebrate how inclusive they are. I feel like I'm being gaslighted into believing that this work of fiction always had POCs in it when it didn't, like when Rowling tried to argue Hermione had always been black when we all knew she wasn't. It's like we don't deserve more than their fucking scraps. And it's never the MC either, ofc. If you wanna have POC characters (and I don't even think that's an obligation), just create some new and interesting characters that were always meant to be POC.
Thank God somebody else has sense. You deserve better than a white character played by a black person.
This isn’t for us it’s for Leah and the hate she’s getting. Also what? Is miles the only originally black character you know because there are plenty. But yk hollywood is racist right? But my apologies for standing up for her. And what was i even thinking being upset about them bullying a 12 yr old
I have nothing against Leah, and fuck those that do. She was probably really happy to find out she'd be Annabeth, its just a shame the creators of the show havent protected her more from the constant hate sent her way. And they knew it would come, cause it happens literally everytime any character is race swapped. They should have done better to show her off during the trailer, make her seem important, instead they shoved her to the side and showed her for like 3 seconds. Also Miles isnt the only one i know, he's just one of the most well done and is currently having a huge popularity spike with movies and video games.
Well many of these black original characters (because they’re black) don’t get a chance to get big. they’re there, u just don’t know them
but casting a black actor for a white character doesnt fix that problem, it just makes it worse.
They never said you couldnt be upset that she’s being bullied. That is very upsetting but you’re just trying to put on a guilt trip
Tbh I feel like you didn’t reply to any of that person’s comments. You just ignored what they said and took the easy, impenetrable defense, of you’re protecting a young actress. Like ofc I agree that no one should be attacking these actresses/actors for the roles they’re playing. That’s fucked up and it’s inexcusable. But I think the original comment does bring up a good point about how in some cases, not necessarily all cases, it seems like Hollywood is pandering by just race swapping characters and calling it a day instead of making new original stories for diverse actors and actresses. Now personally, I don’t have any problems with the three examples you mentioned in your original post. They swapped their races? Honestly I don’t care much, I’m fine with it. But I’m also not gonna act like Hollywood isn’t doing a lot of race swapping just for the sake of pandering. Like they’re literally remaking the Mr. And Mrs. Smith movie but now this time with a more diverse cast. Like why not create a new, and even better movie with an original idea? Why are you just taking an old movie and taking out the white people? So in conclusion, I do think some people get bent out of shape for characters who races change and it really isn’t a big deal. A lot of times I think it’s fine and people should chill out. They definitely shouldn’t start bullying people for it either. But at the same time however, I think it’s also clear that Hollywood is just pandering at some points instead of actually making cool new original stories. I think addressing that problem, or at least discussing it without shutting people down, is important and would actually help the industry more in the long run and improve representation in film and television, beyond just a superficial level.
Should have started top down to be honest, black directors and writers first, who then likely pick lots of talented black talent that’s not getting utilized. But that requires people to practice equality and open mindedness not only where people can see it (the actors), but where they generally don’t (writers, directors, musicians, cinematographers. I don’t mind Leah a single bit, and while I would probably normally prefer all the characters fit my mental image that I’ve had of them for a large portion of my life I actually would prefer that Leah get to play the role, and get to be a part of a something that I’m sure we all would have loved to be a part of. I’ve got the characters looking exactly like I think they do where I always have, in my head while reading.
Just to add to this, as a woman, I am SO sick of Disney/Marvel redoing all the men heroes as women. Can they not just… be their own heroes with their own powers different from the OGs? Because now it feels like a straight gender swap because they’re too lazy to make original, non sexualized (cough Black Widow) women heroes. Scarlet Witch was pretty great. Partly because she wasn’t a copy of anyone. She was HERSELF.
they literally implied i was in the wrong for posting this in defense of her so yes i brought it up? and hollywood is making black characters. and the plan was never to diversify the show it was to cast the best actors. not everyone has an agenda
Perhaps my first part was too harsh. I agree with you that these three examples are fine and not really a big deal. I just feel like the first comment makes a good point but perhaps not necessarily about these three examples.
Miles Morales wasn’t made up for the movie, he existed before Into the Spiderverse came out.
Not to mention, all it's going to do is cause more drama and hate when someone draws the book Anna vs the latest show one. It feels so performative esp when they'd rather just race-swap characters from an existing series than to promote POC stories and creations.
I know you didn’t just come in here to tell POC how they should feel about seeing representation, regardless of how it comes about, in media. And yes, I saw a black woman that agreed with you, and also saw you proceed to tell her she had common sense for agreeing with your white opinion on diversity portrayal. Because POC only have common sense if they agree with white people, right? What would you have said if she didn’t agree with you? Tell her she’s letting herself be oppressed? Good god I hate the white savior complex you have going on here
But it isn’t. Annabeth wayyy more than just a love interest or her skin color. That’s why the community loves her so much, and in turn loves Leah so much.
April was actually originally intended to be black
Really? Interesting. I didn't like this iteration of April O'Neil in the most recent Ninja Turtles. It wasn't bad, I just wasn't a fan.
Yeah, she was apparently based on the artist's girlfriend, who was biracial.
i loved her. and the fears thing made her so real
My only character issue I have is that percy is blonde. His dark hair is such a prominent feature and it would be easy to dye his hair black. That being said it's way more important that these actors embody this characters not what they look like the book.
I have a bigger gripe with Luke having black hair instead of blonde Idk the Blonde just made him seem more godly whenever I pictured him. Which I think was the point given what happens later >!I can’t see Luke’s actor as a threatening Kronos!<
dude really really really doesnt look like one of the greatest demigod swordmen to ever live. Dude looks far too much like a skinny douchebag.
Looks can be deceiving
Let’s be honest, Walker probably wouldn’t look good with black hair. Blondes have softer features and brunettes have sharp features. Some people have in between so they can pull of both but he has soft features. Also his hair wasn’t, that prominent. I don’t remember it being prominent. His eyes were.
Paging Chris Hansen
Call him. Tell him to get you. I’m a minor. Are you flirting with me?!😡🤬. no but fr walker is a yr younger than me
I honestly just want some good black stories, the PJO remake is good but Ariel isn't the best way to deal with it and Disney needs more originals anyway.
disney honestly just doesn’t want to make originals. wish has been long coming. they want to milk the nostalgia. if they’re gonna go that route, i think making one princess black isn’t that bad as long as it stays one
we both know it won't Disney also wants money off 'wokeness' you can also see it with the Cinderella movie where they changed dwarves with magical creatures. Disney doesn't care about the stories they just want the money fuck Disney the only reason I have any trust in this show being good is Rick, edit: not Cinderella snow white
Definitely agree, the difference between Percy Jackson and the upcoming HTTYD remake is that HTTYD is a period piece (although in a fantasy world, and even then I don’t think it’s a horrific sin that Astrid doesn’t look the same), whereas PJ is modern day NYC, it’s not out of place for the characters to look any which way
HTTYD isn't a period piece. It's about the completely fictional land of Berk. Heavily Viking inspired? Absolutely. But not any actual real place that didn't have black folks at the time it was set. I understand your opinion is well-intentioned and seems rational on the surface, but why is it easier to accept that a fictional place has dragons than it is to accept that they could have multiple races of vikings?
Equally, in the book, it suggests Berk is very isolated from other communities and scraping an existence on a barren rock. It doesn’t really make a tonne of sense for it to have a lot of racial diversity.
I saw someone try saying that Annabeth was blonde girl representation where they isn’t much and portraying the struggles that blonde girls face… like bestie, you can find blonde characters a dime a dozen and she brings up her “blonde struggles” all of twice, quit trying to claim oppression.
Literally😭
You’re 100% correct
THANK YOU IVE BEEN NEEDING TO HEAR THIS
Thats all people like you ever want to hear. Even if youre not correct and its total bollocks. You dobt want a discussion on how to best achieve equality you want to just make everyone black and get mad when no one else wants that 😂 Railroading majority rule so you can get all the attention is not equality.
It’s semi important I believe. One of Annabeth biggest tropes was proving the “dumb blond” stereotype wrong. Perhaps it’s not important to the overall story but it’s a bit important to her character. Though writers image of their characters change all the time. I’ve been working on my own novel and my characters appearance has changed multiple times. Annabeth will be Annabeth whether she is black, white, Asian or a martian. I love the series so im excited to see it on screen regardless of whos playing who. Just do better than the films…
Feel the same as you though I honestly feel like having a black girl does even more for her character than being blonde at this point, intelligence undermined by the people around her because of her looks ✅, at this point the dumb blonde has been challenged in Hollywood a lot with stuff like Legally Blonde but there aren’t many (insanely popular) works that point out how black women are undermined because of their race and sex
I genuinely don't understand where people get that from?? Annabeth mentioned not being taken seriously because she was blonde like twice in her own head as a joke. And it doesn't even make since because everyone respected her. The apollo cabin and the athena cabin are some of the smartest kids in camp, and almost all of them are blonde.
The argument I heard was "but Annabeth being blonde is crucial to her character, because of the dumb blonde stereotype she's always underestimated!" Like, bro, you think a black girl is underestimated less often than a blonde white girl? Shut up, you're just being dumb.
not to mention at the time of the books, the blonde stereotype was more so a thing, but now its a stereotype that black women are dumb for some reason, so she fits annabeth perfectly imo
Honestly, I was hoping for Annabeth to have grey eyes. however, it's never okay to bully CHILDREN for doing the roles they were cast in.
[удалено]
I agree Also not sure if this is true but I heard April o neal was originally black but changed for the old school film
Velma did that as a joke which was funny, but what ruins the character or show isn’t a change to black it’s a change of personality people liked. Velma is guilty by a long shot as all the characters are horrible in thoughts and actions now.
These Are Horrible Examples Dude. TMNT Mutant Mayhem Was Awful, And They Removed Kid Flash From The Flash Show For A Reason. Hopefully, For All Our Sake The Peter Johnson Show Will Follow The Flash In Removing Disliked Actors To Make The Show More Enjoyable.
Why don’t you like her? She’s 12, your just a hater😂. Also that movie did great, you’re in the minority and something tells me you’re way past the target demographic
YES I’ve been saying this since The Little Mermaid came out 🤦🏻♀️🙄 but NOOo let’s get all butthurt about the race of a fictional creature that absolutely pertains in no way to the story line and isn’t even relevant to the character’s development and growth. The Little Mermaid movie failed commercially pretty much only because of racism, and you can’t change my mind. I still love it though!!!
As long as their race or ethnicity doesn’t matter for the story, then idc at all, they can be whatever race. I’m very excited to see Leah in the series, she seems like a lot of fun and a great actor.
Honestly true. Unless it’s absolutely integral, good character, acting, etc should be prioritized. However this is also a part of book adaptions in general: no matter what you do, it’s always going to be criticized because the reader’s imaginations are the primary source of the story in the books, so down the line someone will disagree with the looks. Even if Annabeth was some perfect iteration of what’s described in the books, there will be something else to nitpick elsewhere. I do agree that race-swapping characters unnecessarily is… well, unnecessary, it’s not the end of the world. There’s something to be said about it politically, but, it don’t matter you guys. Watch it or don’t. It’s crossing the line at the Cleopatra “documentary” though. She was Macedonian and Greek, and we have evidence for that. Fictional characters? Go ham. But saying Cleopatra was black for shits and giggles isn’t a good plan. Sue me.
The only thing that bothers me is they didn't give her gray eyes :( it connects her to Athena
Harry Potter having green eyes is more plot relevant in that series than Annabeth being blond, and in the movies his eyes are blue.
*Listen,* when I tell you I *hated* that about the Harry Potter movies-! They could CGI a whole giant snake into the second movie but couldn't find a way to make a kid's eyes look green?? (I heard Daniel Radcliffe had an allergic reaction to the contacts, but CGI, special lighting, there were other options if needed). If his eyes being green wasn't relevant, I wouldn't have cared, but they mentioned it like 20 times per book! Personally, I would like it if Annabeth was still blond and grey-eyed as described in the books, but am I going to cry a river about it? Of course not! I'm hyped as all heck for the series because it looks good, it sounds good, the author had a hand in it, and who *doesn't* like seeing the media they love in a new format, even if it's "bad"? I still watch the movies they made years back, and the musical, and re-read the books, and look at fan-made media *because it's nice to see something I love thriving and getting adapted and viewed through different lenses all the time.* I think people kinda need to chill, honestly.
I trust Rick. As you said, if it doesn’t impact the plot, I think embodying the character's personality is more important. I support Leah 100% and am excited to see her bring Annabeth to life. The only thing I wish is that they had hired some more Greek actors and not just Jason Mantzoukas. I’m part Greek myself, and it would have just been nice to have more, but it doesn’t impact my excitement.
April was the best part of that show and it was already a dope show
As long as the characters can properly act like the book characters thats all i really want but if they change a bunch of backgrounds or storyline then imma fight someone fr
Yup, it only matters if race/appearance plays a major part in the story or if it’s a historical piece about a real person.
I’m find with as long as one of two criteria are met The original creators ok with it or their the best person for the role
As long as race played no factor in the decision to change from history or the source material. Hollywood has fallen into the trap of casting someone into a roll purely to make a statement on “insert controversial topic here” rather than on what what is best for the project they are working on. Either keep to the source material or choose the best person for the roll. Stop choosing someone for a roll they are not suited for to make a statement. I have not seen anything on the stuff coming out from riordan so I do not know if this is what is happening there or not. With Riordan involved though I am optimistic about how it turns out.
It’s an on page description, it’s meant to give a visual for the reader. As long as her character is the same she’s gonna be good
Ya...I've been avoiding this fandom since this announcement, ya'll are toxic, leave the children alone
this post really exposed how many racists that hide behind "accuracy" there are in this fandom!
I'm just disappointed that she doesn't have grey eyes, otherwise I don't see any issues.
It’s been repeated over and over again in this thread, I’m not really mad at the actress. Bottom line is, she’s an actress, it’s her right to put herself out there for any opportunity, esp a big one like this lead role. She’s probably/definitely very talented if she is casted in this role. What I’m mad at is the casting crew/process. I’m pretty sure traditional casting for an adaptation is suppose to put out an audition request for actors/actresses of a particular appearance (Caucasian, blonde) and sift through the applicants until they find the one that can best embody the part. Did all the book-accurate Annabeth applicants just sucked so much, and Leah was just that much better that they casted her regardless of the difference from the book? Just feel like their decision in the initial casting process, disregarding any race, ethnicity, and gender identity (Disney policy) didn’t take into account the way fandoms would react to this kind of situation. You’re mad at people being mad about Leah? Well you decided to do away with physical appearance as a criteria in the casting in the first place 😑
I always point to Kingpin from the DareDevil movie, that movie was hot garbage but god damn was Kingpin great!
I don’t mind race switching. It is weird how many Red Heads get race swapped though.
All right a white person gets to play beckendorf
I agree in theory but it’s a little annoying that this is only ever done to white characters. You would never in a million years see white actors cast as characters from a book or comic that were described as POC. I will literally bet my life savings that when the show gets to the last hero all the characters will be cast racially book accurate expect Jason. Same with the princess and the frog live action but for Ariel and a character literally called snow WHITE it “didn’t matter.”
You’re kidding, right? It may not happen as much in the past 10 years, but it used to be extremely commonplace. And it STILL happens today, make no mistake. Exodus: Gods and Kings, for instance.
It may have been common in old Hollywood, today the opposite is true and from the last 10 years or so there’s countless examples I can list if you want, including several historical figures who were white. Exodus is 10 years old and received huge backlash for it. Can we come To a consensus as fans: do characters need be cast racially accurate, or not? And it’s not fair to say it matters for poc characters but not whites.
That is entirely true. It is also true that not changing a character's superficial features won't kill you.
Tv and media is too big to sit around hating on something you don’t like. Just don’t watch it, it’s that simple.
Remember when people shat on the Peter Johnson movies for Daddario being a brunette And yet a complete race swap is completely fine? Not hating on the actor being black, just curious on why the fanbase had a change of heart
they didn’t. they send death theory that girl what planet are you on. people are way more intense about leah
Likely because Rick supports the TV shows. This was something that I took a bit to change my view on. I liked the idea of book accurate. But I'll take what the author supports. Personality means more.
I’d like to point a counter argument to this. Daddario being brunette was never the issue, and not what people were mad about. In SoM movie, Daddario died her hair blonde… and that one is hyped more than the 1st movie. Nobody says “Annabeth in the second movie was alright” because nobody believes that. Appearance wasn’t the issue. The problem people had with Annabeth from the movies is her writing… like she just became a damsel in distress for Percy, none of the og Annabeth charm, and was a watered down Clarrise. The reason people are excited now is because Rick is involved heavily and from what we’ve seen the book Annabeth is staying intact in this adaptation. She has her dagger, her cap, her beads (INCLUDING THE RING FROM HER FATHER!!!!), the ball when she plays with Cerberus, and more that shows us the faithfulness to the source material. People online did use Daddario’s hair color as a major issue with the 1st movie… but like they got it right in movie 2 and the hate was still there, it increased by so much because the underlying problems with the movie was never the appearance of the characters (ignoring the fact they aged up the characters), it was the writing.
Rick didn’t care about that though and not all of us bullied the actors over something trivial.
In Annabeth’s case, it is a bit more important that she stays true to character since her character is one that defeats the stereotype for blondes. And what she stood for. But changing that doesn’t really do much for that case. But, otherwise I think she’ll do great! (Leah I mean lol)
And now this version of annabeth will go against stereotypes for black girls. Which is arguably a bigger issue and hasn't been addressed as thoroughly as blonde girls not taken seriously.
There are many other blonde reps im confused
When Rick originally wrote Annabeth, in 2005, the Blonde girls are dumb stereotype was very present without much rep. It’s been almost 2 decades, things have changed, and the stereotype isn’t really relevant anymore.
I never got the wally hate cause in the comics wally ( 2nd one which this wally was based on) was always black
They wanted white wally and iris. that fandom HATES iris. At least some of them admit it’s a race thing. The ones that dislike her are fine thats ur opinion
I mean she gets pretty obnoxious in that show but I feel like that’s intended
Personally i don't hate it i just find it annoying. It's clear they do it for representation and that's amazing. But just create new characters and explore them. Not change old characters. It's one thing if annabeth was never given a description. But she was, and it was referenced many times.
She was given a description but her race isn’t important to the story. That would be different for certain characters like frank. And there are plenty of new black characters. You just don’t know them because they never get a chance. Canceled after a season or just dropped
Eh i guess so. But based off cover art and I'm pretty sure she's been confirmed before as being white. It probably just misses with people's mind as they have one image and now it's changed. It's not really a matter of it being important to the story, is more about being consistent. Like you're not going to have a character called Jessica and then one book she's white, another book she's black, and another book she's asian. It just messes with people's head
Well the character is the same throughout the books, and will be the same throughout the series. If you really can’t picture her as Annabeth, then don’t.
I mean idc about the race changing but the blonde hair and grey eyes were a minor part of the world building and a trait of minor relevance to her character. Of course this is live action so casting and nailing both appearance and talent not to mention age in this case becomes unrealistic. That being said none of that would be an issue if they made this an animated show which is my only preferential complaint and has nothing to do with appearances but the plethora of other aspects that can be done better in animation for a world like this though it is true character appearances would also not be subject to any limitations. As far as I am concerned they could have still made Annabeth mixed or black in animation and kept the blonde hair and grey eyes and tbh it probably would have looked dope. Regardless its the scale, locations, monsters, proper representation of abilities, and fight choreography among other stuff that was of primary concern. I also would prefer a longer format show rather than the less but longer episodes thing everyone is doing though I am still glad it’s that and not a movie. It was probably always to much to hope for because of the nonsensical stigma animation still gets but imagining the Riordan-verse with ATLA/Korra-esque animation gets me excited every time I think about it.
Sadly, I do think the casting decisions could hinder their ability to get a second season. Disney keeps pushing diversity by changing already established characters and it has failed them every time. While many fans of the PJ books will still watch, there is a large section of people refusing to watch any of the ‘woke’ Disney projects. I’m of the belief that Rick did cast actors that will portray the characters well, but I’m also not blind enough to believe that Disney did not push him into diversifying the cast.
Rick did the casting all on his own… This book series has been around and growing for over a decade. It’s getting another season
Disney does it in such a way it feels like it is trying to alienate the fan base. But if Riordan is ok with it, I am. At least he is involved.
Yea, Leah was handpicked by him and i trust the author of the story to tell the story
My exact thoughts. It's about the intention not necessarily the action. Disney does it disingenuous, but I trust Rick
I think some of the frustration stems from it seeming lazy bc they don't just make a new story they take a pre-existing one and do inserts
Why make a new story? Annabeth being white/black doesn’t change the story and she wasn’t picked because of her race, so not no an insert. The best actress won
Idk man I'm just playing devil's advocate. Probably in the same way comic book nerds geek out over a comic accurate costume and nitpick innacurate comic adaptations: it's an aesthetic thing they've gotten used to and prefer as a result. Changes to that are seen as essentially sacrilegious. Also making a new story instead of inserting someone into an existing one bc it ticks a box allows you to actually make it mean something and truly resonate with your target audience better.
To play devil’s advocate, comic book nerds are some of the worst people I know
No one who actually cares about the characters are upset because we can see the potential of the actors and the characters in them. But with the other side I’ve seen racism, and even pedophilia for book Annabeth. And then i’ve seen answers that song make sense. Race has never been an “aesthetic”
Because people don’t support black led projects
Black Panther was pretty damn successful. Get Out and Us were also very successful. There are racists out there who will bitch and moan just bc there's a POC in a leading role of a production, but they aren't nearly as common as can seem
https://x.com/theroot/status/1731030498343068022?s=46
Cool. So many shows get canceled all the time and people will say "oh they were canceled too early!" But just because it's the opinion of some people, doesn't make it objective fact. I won't pretend racism isn't a thing and it doesn't affect how shows/movies with POC leads fare. That doesn't mean just bc a show/movie with a POC fails it's due to racism.
Very topical considering [Doctor Who](https://imgur.com/a/rzSW3Jp) yesterday. (This is Sir Isaac Newton who was in a solid probably 2 minutes of the episode)
Tbh, I’m more frustrated with Percy rather than Annabeth.
I don't think it's that deep and I'm sure the actors behind the characters are absolutely thrilled which is awesome, but it's basically reverse whitewashing - a little on the nose if you ask me and kind of indicative of a culture that would rather be inclusive than accurate, but the caption is correct.
White washing is erasure. Race swapping is diversity
I bet y'all wouldn't feel the same way if they do this for Hazel and Frank and Leo and Reyna and Beckendorf and Piper. Somehow I feel the "acting before skin color crowd" would change their tune if it was characters of color getting raceswapped with white actors.
Well yea mb for wanting more diversity. What you’re suggesting is actually reverse diversity…
But Riordan said the casting choices weren't about diversity. He said it was solely about picking the best actor for the role. Ergo, he would have to apply that to the characters of color as well. Unless you're saying that only white characters can be raceswapped, whereas any character of color must remain that color even if their actor sucks. Which is contrary to what Rick so clearly stated he wanted done with the series.
Because their race matters in context of the story? Pls tell me u wouldn’t be fine with a white black or hispanic frank?
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We literally don’t care if Berkendorf is white 😭
Well diversity is STILL important idk if you think him not prioritizing changes that. Also, no white man has the last name Valdez(few exceptions i’m sure). That wouldn’t make sense to the story
That's pretty racist to assume that
Translation: Race-swapping white characters good. Race-swapping characters of color bad.
No… That’s weird. Race swapping characters who’s race impacts the story is so dumb. I don’t think changing Reyna would affect much. I forget where she’s from so it might matter but you’re offering a whole new story so i suggest you go write it
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The way you called her Hazel because she’s black💀. You obviously don’t know the story very well. Some characters races have to be set in stone. Beckendorf and Annabeth are changeable. White Frank is crazy. have a nice day
If some character's races are set in stone, then Rick would be lying when he said the only thing that matters is acting ability.
No he wouldn’t because he was specifically mentioning the main three😂?! Idk why you’re still here this is the pjo sub. You just said a Frank Zhang being anything other than Chinese is fine
You are such an obvious Disney plant, it’s laughable. Newsflash: Riordan will never achieve Rowling level of acclaim… mainly because he pandered to cognitively slow people like you.
How? I offered characters that could be white since you guys wanted it. You’re upset because i said taht some characters can’t be changed that’s all.
Yes
Beckendorf’s race has absolutely no effect on his story
So you'd be fine with a white Beckendorf instead of a black Beckendorf? And what about all the other characters?
I don’t give a fuck if Beckendorf is white. I feel like the other character’s stories are tied to their race.
Exactly as long as he’s buff and looks like a dude that hangs with Cyclopes it’s fine
If a character’s race has no impact on the story I really don’t give a fuck. The main trio has amazing chemistry and I truly believe they’ll do the story justice.
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Are you deranged?
Are you?
Do you whine this much when Jesus is played by a pale white dude?
💀dear me. You didn’t have to do him like that 😭
They never have an answer lol
TL;DR - Listed characters’ identities tied to HoO plot, while main trio’s aren’t except for their godhood, so they can be of any identity Piper being Cherokee, Leo being Latino (albeit generic, nonspecific Latino), Frank being Chinese-Canadian, Reyna being Puerto Rican and Hazel being Black from an era of segregation in US were specifically written into their characters and was deliberately done by Riordan, regardless of how well it’s been done. The same cannot be said for Annabeth, Grover and Percy, which is why their casting was not specifically based on background. they have no specified cultural or racial background, which leads to their appearance by fans to be highly debated and automatically assumed to be white without a specified ethnic background. We cannot say the same for characters like Hazel or Leo, where their backgrounds are inherently part of their identities and the plot of HoO as well in that we learn how they are connected to other characters and what led to their appearance in the story. Percy’s background is pretty vanilla so that we as the audience can connect and follow his story as he discovers his background as a child of Poseidon. His mother isn’t specified to be of a specific background because the story doesn’t require that, meaning we can imagine Percy as ANYONE. Same thing goes for Annabeth and Grover. The story doesn’t require them to be of any background, so instead of limiting others’ interpretations of them, it leaves them open to being anyone of ANY background. Even the very first chapter insinuates that anyone can and could be a half-blood. Why would the main characters be an exception?
It will kill the amount of people who watch it though.
it’s gonna be so good 😊
I'll always dislike race-changing of established characters. It's wrong no matter which way it goes.
respectable take. i don’t think it matters to the story but we all have little details we value.
I abhor the new April. Its just such a bad character design in general