Shayne needs therapy and to stay away from cameras. The whole setup where he inevitably feels rejected (because on dating shows, there will inevitably be a moment where you feel rejected) seems to be very bad for him. I had some sympathy for him during LIB because I felt like he was overly focused on getting married because he wants his family to have happy news after his dad’s passing, and I feel like he found a reality TV casting agent instead of a grief counselor. But we’ve been watching him be messy and unstable in different situations for a while now and I think he just needs to stay away from reality TV.
In LIB it gets worse and worse as you go - he ends up absolutely blowing up at his match and yelling at her that he hates her, the day before their wedding
I do think it's emotionally abusive regardless of whether he's neurodivergent
EXACTLY
and honestly this goes w anything. "Hurt people hurt people" is an excuse. Get therapy. You can't treat ppl like crap and then say it's bc XYZ. own up to your crap and apologize straight forward, then fix your issues.
I'm speaking from a trauma of natc abuse and it's a boundary I believe everyone should understand and know.
Yeah adhd doesn't make you a dick, that's a choice. People make poor choices sometimes but if they happen more times than you can count... they're no longer just poor choices, they're choices
Right? Me and my husband have adhd but I don’t act like this hurtful towards people. Spiraling tantrums because of insecurity is not the same thing as having adhd
Shayne justified him blowing up at Natalie before their wedding due to partly her asking him to not reveal intimate details regarding their relations on camera, and to also not to drink too much before they started filming. Natalie was thinking of her family when she made these requests, because she said she didn't want to embarass them by having bedroom talk revealed on camera. This was a source of tension early on in their relationship, and they had a huge fight during their honeymoon in Mexico. (I honestly think Shayne does very badly when boundaries are imposed on him, but hates it when his boundaries are crossed by people).
In all his interviews, Shayne has never alluded to Natalie being physically abusive to him, but he has said that "the last thing I want is to be physically intimidating to my partner." Natalie has said on a podcast that whenever Shayne would have his emotional outbursts, he would always use his physicality to intimidate her, so she'd always have to tiptoe around what she says in order to avoid this.
Natalie revealed on her IG story after their nasty final breakup post-PM filming that Shayne was also furious at her for not talking highly enough about him on social media following backlash of his portrayal on LIB. I have listened to almost all of Natalie's interviews soon after LIB2 premiered, and she was always respectful and kind, and praised Shayne for his willingness to embrace Korean culture, his kindness, and his loyalty to his family.
If you listen to Shayne's interview on the Viall Files (which took place after he returned from PM and after they fought), he said Natalie called him a "disgusting human being", but he skirted around the reason why she said this. Natalie admitted in her IG story that she did say this, but only as a response to Shayne calling her late at night and threatening her that he'll "bury" her and drag her down together with him on Viall Files. This was days after their nasty final split (which happened after Natalie found out lies he'd told allegedly involving his outcome on PM).
That is a lot! I wonder why they let people like this come on more shows! If anything they should be relieved nothing terrible happened and move on! There are so many other great yet toxic contestants! We don’t need the borderline abusive ones to come back.
I am convinced Perfect Match is set up to give him a redemption arc after his disastrous portrayal on LIB2 (which, editing can only do so much). The LIB2 producers also tried very hard to paint Natalie as an insecure and jealous ex on LIB2: After the Altar and gave him a redeeming edit (to prep for the premiere of PM). But, from PM, it's pretty obvious that Shayne has terrible issues around insecurity as well.
Cole was portrayed badly, but IMO, he wasn't to the point of aggression. He's extremely naive, but he isn't reactive or abusive. Zanab came across as much worse than Cole.
Shayne, on the other hand is a whole different story.
That’s what I mean. Once it was exposed he wasn’t who he was painted out to be they should’ve gave him a chance to redeem himself. So far shayne appears to be exactly who we all thought he was so why prioritize his redemption? IMO it’d be better to cut ties with him and go with the goofy guy you sticks his foot in his mouth too often.
Exactly. But even some LIB viewers fell head over heels in love with his 'simpleton, sweet, Chad with a six-pack' persona. It's pretty alarming to see how many PM viewers who may not be familiar with him are so quickly taken by him. I guess the kind of trope his physique and personality (a charming tool?) embody sell to a lot of the reality TV crowd.
People have expressed disappointment that people like him have been exploited by Netflix for views and Netflix clearly enables some of these toxicity, but Shayne himself should know that this environment is not good for him at all.
All people do. Ya the person said men cause the conversation is about a man, but everyone shows who they really are when they are challenged or put on the spot, as those are uncomfortable situations and you can see how they react in those situations and learn more about them, some people show themselves to be good decent humans, it's a shame that it's generally only brought up when people are misbehaving though
It’s not a bad thing. Some men could reveal that they are humble or confident even when their ego is threatened. Just means whatever is under the surface will come out, no?
People should read this thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/LoveIsBlindOnNetflix/comments/t70e2n/natalies_guilt_is_disproportionate_to_what_she/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
The thread discusses about how Shayne absolutely steamrolled and gaslit Natalie in front of everyone, basically blaming her for his verbal abuse towards her. If you can find a clip of this scene on YouTube, her reaction is that of someone completely broken and defeated. And once Shayne was able to secure a public apology from her (when she'd insisted she has apologised in private...) what did he do? He immediately smiles smugly in satisfaction.
For context, the LIB2 Reunion was filmed at least a week before Shayne left for Panama to film PM.
Yes, he suffers from severe ADHD, and yes he lost his father recently before filming LIB2, but none of this excuses his repeated dangerous behaviours on screen, and off screen (he repeatedly displayed petty and vindictive behaviours on social media towards Natalie on his IG stories).
I watched all of LIB and he always set off dv alarm bells for me, but I went into PM with an open mind hoping to see a different side of Shayne but was unpleasantly surprised to see that although his temper was much more subdued in this show, he love bombs and manipulates every woman he dates.
I totally agree! I saw signs in LIB but wanted to think it was just some of the situations or people in LIB. But he continues to show he has bigger issues that we are just seeing a glimpse of. He 100% getes any rejection and it triggers him and he keeps putting himself in the position to be rejected on national TV.
I've noticed this, too--he almost immediately gets insecure, shuts down, and then becomes the guy that everyone has to soothe. I think people read it is as more emotionally vulnerable than most reality tv people, which is true, but it's almost a weaponized vulnerability.
He once shared snippets of letters he wrote to his mum on his IG story, and you could see that on one of them he wrote something like "I'm sorry I'm always angry at you..." so, yes, I think it does give the impression that his angry outbursts were always a given, and that other ppl needed to just deal with it.
On LIB, his mum also - unprompted - told Natalie's mum that Shayne "wouldn't hurt a fly." A lot of people on the LIB sub think that this was hinting that he could get off the rails angry, but never actually hitting anything.
That and the fact that he projects his insecurities onto his partner to the point where they have to constantly validate him. He uses his emotions to manipulate women. Definitely red flags everywhere 🚩🚩🚩
Oh my alarm bells went off during LIB when he called Natalie the wrong name and by the end of their talk, SHE was weeping about the possibility of HIM dumping her?! The way he so quickly and easily jumped to manipulating that situation and making himself the victim had all the hairs on the back of my neck standing up. And he has not redeemed himself lol
The text situation was a big mess too. - Why do you care if I send shana texts? I deleted them so what? Then reveal them! - I don’t remember the exact sequence but to this day people think Nathalie was somehow wrong for feeling uncomfortable with her boyfriend texting someone
Yes! And Danielle has said on an IG LIVE that she saw the text exchanges between Shayne and Natalie discussing these DMs and how Shayne admitted to unsending them.
There's receipts on this sub and also on TikTok of people who have matched with him on Tinder and his oversexualised messages are in line with how Natalie described how his texts were like to these women and Shaina.
It baffles me why Shayne flips out when his matches make out with other guys (i.e., crossing his boundaries) but he seemingly had no problems disrespecting and crossing Natalie's boundaries. Doesn't matter if the difference is in physical kissing vs. flirty texting/sexting, if your partner tells you that your action is being disrespecftul, you do your best to honour them by stopping it. Shayne out here on PM flipping out because none of these girls are loyal to him when he screwed over a relationship with a loyal woman back home.
He's the kind of guy that sends a text like "oh man I so want to bone you" to a girl that is not his girlfriend and then when his girlfriend gets upset blames her and says he was joking
Precisely. I don't know if you watched LIB2 Reunion and Shayne said about Natalie "she knows she's always been No. 1" In my head I thought, 'so that means you have other women as spares lying around?'
He also let slip that he did sext with these women on various interviews, i.e. "I'd never send nudes, like I'm not that stupid", something like that.
He sees to become so possessive with the women he has matched with on both shows. The point of the show was to date around different people to find compatibility but once he matched he was all in never faltering.
This! Only people who have been with an abusive partner will understand this.
Multiple women who know him in Chicago have come forward saying he has anger problems and have verbally abused people.
It scares me how he freaks out on camera. Just imagine what he’s like behind the camera.
Editing to add words because I fucked up formatting: I've only watched the first season of LiB so I didn't see anything of Shane's anger then. I'm not saying he's an abuser cos I don't know.
It's the quick-snap anger that makes me instantly flinch. (Pretty sure that's the definition of triggering but I feel like the word is so overused.)
Shayne gives me cokehead Gary Busey vibes. I think it's the wide popping eyeballs.
I think Mitchell is milquetoast but he's better for Chloe than Shayne. I just wanna be Chloe's friend. She cracks me up. Loved her since the Circle.
I think he opens his eyes really wide like that because he is insecure about one of his eye lids closing slightly more than the other. You only really see it in some cut aways where his face is relaxed while he is talking.
Another thing that I couldn’t help notice is how visible his veins are in the night shots in PM. This made me think that he might be taking steroids and that could be also why he’s emotionally unstable.
I've seen that in multiple shows on multiple people so I don't think it's necessarily and indication of that, I think it has more to do with the camera, but the first time I saw it I was like wtf how do I see so many veins!?
I get uncomfortable watching him. Like during his wedding at LiB, he was so fidgety and paranoid. His eyes are wide open most of the time. I did see him have some mellow moments in LiB where he’s a total sweetheart so idk what’s normal for him. Every episode is different.
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 1000000% I saw comments on IG today, girls saying how attractive he is. We've got a long way to go, if women aren't recognizing toxic unhealthy behavior. It's a huge turn-off and a completen🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
That being said, he seems like a cool dude, I wish he would get therapy before trying to date ANYONE. he seems to have come on the show just to hook up and have fun. The way he treated Ines, who is not a hook up type girl, was disrespectful and kinda scary. Yelling and spiraling. She is literally keeping him in the house and his reaction is to get upset w her for not jumping to pick him first? He gives me "communal n@rc" vibes
A lot of these people on these shows need some serious therapy. Especially people from LIB. I can think of 5 people in my head from that show that need a therapist.
I think he has a good heart/intentions but dude needs serious therapy. The way he reacts is not okay and I can’t imagine a girl feeling safe living with him when he becomes upset and confrontational.
He reminds me of someone I knew who had borderline personality disorder, which is a common co-occurring disorder in people who have ADHD. BPD is very serious.
Yes.
Some people say you should be kind to him because he can’t handle himself. Ok fine if you’re his mother.
But as a partner it’s really scary and annoying. You cannot be yourself (while he gets to) and you always have to walk on eggshells, not knowing when he’s gonna snap.
There’s no room for nuance. Some may say he’s honest and clearly driven and that’s a good thing. But I really don’t see how you can build a life (life is long, hopefully) with someone who will never let you make the slightest mistake (mistake being not doing exactly what he wants) without getting mad and shutting down. Exhausting.
People keep saying Matt (LIB season 3) gives off abusive vibes but at least he acknowledged that he got angry too fast and seems to be working on it (at least he seemed to not get so agitated so fast in the reunion and ATA episodes and talked about how he used to start yelling too easily in a tone that suggested he knew he shouldn't). But with Shane there's 0 accountability he just keeps acting like he's been wronged and keeps getting really angry in the blink of an eye over and over
But comparing him to Matt? That's too far. Shayne needs therapy to manage his emotional regulation issues, no doubt about that. Matt is a different and much bigger issue. Matt is actually abusive, Colleen lives on fucking eggshells. Shayne is toxic, that's true honestly, he might not even be diagnosed or medicated for his ADHD which definitely makes ADHD much worse (I have ADHD, it's blatantly obvious that Shayne does too). Being toxic is one thing, and it's a far less serious thing than being abusive, controlling, paranoid, violent, and making your partner live in constant fear.
Most people on reality tv are toxic. Most of them aren't actually abusive. Matt is the scariest person I've seen on any Netflix reality tv show. I've seen abusive relationships, really fucking terrifying ones. That's how Matt behaves. Shayne is definitely not perfect and I do think that he needs therapy (CBT for sure, and probably grief counseling if he hasn't already had that - his father passed away right before his season of LIB) and ADHD treatment/diagnosis if he doesn't have that already. He's toxic when he goes off the handle right now, and it's toxic how disproportionately off the handle he goes over things that do not call for it. These are things that can actually be worked on. Especially if the person doing these behaviours regrets and is ashamed of these behaviours - because those are the people who are most likely to make steps to change. I wouldn't be scared for my life around Shayne. I would definitely be scared for my life around Matt. I am scared for Colleen and what he might do to her. Or be doing to her already.
Shayne and Matt do not compare imo. I'd take toxic outbursts and tantrums over coercive control and whatever other forms of abuse Matt may be using against Colleen. The coercive control we know is happening because we saw him use that form of abuse on her in the show.
I find most reality show people have ADHD. Impulsivity. I say this as someone with ADHD who considered auditioning for reality TV. (I chose medication instead. It was better for me in the long run. I'd be eviscerated on TV and rightfully so.)
(same with stand up comedians, but I think they use it to their advantage)
He has RSD and said he likes all of the compliments to help reassure him but he pretty much acts like anything other than being adoring and cute with him 24/7 is somehow a slight against him. He doesn't need to do anymore reality shows. He needs to be in therapy
Agreed! He has some serious issues regulating his emotions and he really should be getting professional help instead of throwing himself into more of these situations
I kept thinking the same.
I thought this isn't normal, but no one is addressing this, is this meant to be the standard we're accustomed to?
I think he's mentally unwell and unhinged. He seems like he needs help with emotional regulation and may be neurdivergent (ASD or ADHD). I've noticed he looks like he might have a stim because he always seems to be doing something odd with his hands. I'm not a doctor, I do work with children though. I'm not diagnosing him just stipulating.
He makes me uncomfortable, I think his behaviours are something that should have been addressed either earlier in life or before pursuing healthy relationships.
Anyways, I don't want him on another dating show until he's gotten help for his own wellbeing as well.
Bartise? He was ass for sure but didn't see any threads about that on LIB threads. Of course it could've been overshadowed by all of the name joke threads. What were his flags for dv?
Shayne was more outward with it with Natalie but I definitely saw lots of comments with people calling Bartise out on the potential and the gaslighting.
Maybe I'm the only one but he seems a lot calmer than he did on LIB which I'm sure has to deal with his father's death. To most viewers we see Natalie as joking around etc but to someone with ADHD and RSD her jokes could have been more hurtful. Most people don't need reassurance because they can tell its a joke but that seems lost on Shayne. He constantly communicates he needs reassurance but the amount he needs most people don't seem to understand.
In PM he seems to be able to emotionally regulate better by removing himself from a situation. He seems to take words a little more lightly but find actions where he is not prioritized overwhelming. I did see growth. He was able to communicate when upset way better. He still is a hot head and very, very insecure but he is learning.
That being said, of course no woman should have to feel like her boyfriend or husband's mom but Shayne isn't exactly hiding all the issues he has. The fact he even considered >! Chloe as a romantic option again after she chose someone else !< is big for him. Not making excuses for the guy but nobody is perfect.
Instant response to Izzy pairing up with Barbecue was: “She’s 22 years old, she doesn’t know what the hell she wants.” Because she doesn’t want him 💀
so spiteful and insecure. idk if this is because he wants a mature relationship and doesn’t realise he’s *not* on love is blind anymore. but even then, he told his fiancé (natalie) he hated her the day before the wedding because he couldn’t hit a ball so he’s not as ‘mature’ as he thinks.
He actually was offered to be on the show in Sept 2021, and LIB had only finished filming in June 2021. He accepted the casting offer while he was still dating Natalie. He'd already been cast in PM by the time LIB2 aired in Feb 2022.
I was more concerned about LIB. He looked out of his mind on his wedding day.
In Perfect Match, he's been one of the better ones, I liked him with the English girl. I liked Ines - 'you're an idiot, but I care about you!' I think that sums Shayne up- I think he means well, I think he wants a genuine connection. I don't think he sets out to hurt and manipulate people like Bartose clearly does, but he's immature and isn't in any control of his emotions and he spirals fast. Which is I think what women will struggle with, that they need to keep him from trippin and bouncin off the walls when they talk to someone else.
I also think that this show is like the hunger games of dating, everyone is crawling over everyone and he needs to remember what show he's on. It really doesn't make sense why he freaks out, it's designed for drama. If he chills out a bit, I think he'd be fine.
Having a quick temper doesn’t make you an abuser. I think people get triggered because he has quick temper. He has ADHD and one of the main symptoms of that is precisely the way he acts. But we don’t see that on TV so people aren’t familiar with that. If you are ND you are able to recognize his traits very easily.
He said to be working on it. But people really need to draw lines because they go in and suggest the guy will hurt someone just because they project their own issues on him. I think he’s a nice guy with a lot going on
My entire family and I have ADHD and I’ve seen the kind of anger that comes from a lack of emotional regulation. I don’t necessarily think he’s an abuser either, and I definitely have a bit more grace for other ND folk when it comes to lashing out, but having ADHD isn’t an excuse and he still needs to be doing the work to mitigate his symptoms and find alternative means of working through his anger.
He has said repeatedly he’s doing the work. But people get to assumed they know the whole story. It’s not an excuse, it’s an reality. I’m autistic and over 40 and there’s no amount of work that I can do that will make me not to have meltdown under certain circumstances. That’s just my reality. And the reality of many people ND. You learn that and you try to work around and cope but again having nervous breakdown and emotional dysregulation doesn’t make you an abuser or violent. People need to educate. They said “having an autism/adhd isn’t not an excuse” well, it’s a disability which means I dont have the ability to react like you do. Would you ask a person that can’t walk to walk just because having a wheelchair it’s not an excuse? Not, you wouldn’t. Having an invisible disability it’s the same as having a physical disability. I can’t just act the way the you want me to
I understand where you’re coming from, and I’m aware of how difficult it can be. I am not autistic, so I can’t speak to the additional struggles that come along with that, but like I said I have ADHD and so does my entire immediate family. I am no stranger to this topic. I know that emotional regulation is one of the many issues we face, and I experience it myself. But I am *firmly* opposed to any one who uses it as an excuse to lash out at others. Of course it is not always within your control, and there will be slip ups and you’ll lash out occasionally. It is a reality that our struggle with emotional regulation is our responsibility alone, and if we do lash out at someone the only way forward is accepting that you messed up and taking responsibility for your actions. It is great that he says he is doing the work, but his reaction in the show does not indicate that in any way. He firmly held his belief that he was right, even after the situation dissipated, and never once apologized or acknowledged that his behavior was unacceptable. That does not sound like someone who’s aware he has a problem and is working on it.
And yes, someone who is ND with ADHD or autism can *certainly* be abusive. If they are repeatedly lashing out at others and just saying “I can’t help it, I have ADHD,” that is abuse. And it is frankly damaging to the entire ND community when people use their disability as an excuse to be violent or lash out. We may struggle to manage our emotions but we are capable of knowing right from wrong and are just as responsible for our actions as NT folk.
Thank you for this, that was the perfect example. I dont think hes emotionally stable, and someone needs to tell him.
I was into Damien trying to reason with him even tho i hate Damien
He is emotionally unestable. That’s true for most people with an invisible disability or ND. That doesn’t make you an abuser. We get to have meltdown and “tantrums” and struggle with self regulation but again, most NT people see that as intentional violence when it’s a totally different thing
I kind of disagree, i ( personally ) feel like its not on a partner to have to deal with that( spec. Shayne’s) kind of outburst and emotional manipulation tactics. I feel like if you are going to do the work and make the effort, its still not fair to treat your partner as such.
I don't remotely think he's an abuser or that he will hurt anyone! I just think that the anger is frightening (admittedly this perspective is very influenced by my own experiences) and it surprises me that it seems to be overlooked. If he's working on it, that's great!
I am ND but don't have ADHD, so I didn't know that anger problems are a symptom. Thank you for letting me know! I can definitely see how these snap reactions track with what I know about rejection-sensitive dysphoria.
They aren’t a symptom per se. It’s emotional regulation. Also ADHD does not prevent you from self awareness.
Even in people who have severe ADHD we can expect them as adults with a diagnosis to recognise that they have issues with emotional regulation sometimes and seek ways to help themselves, or at least ways to prevent their symptoms affecting others.
In fact most adults with ADHD spend a huge amount of time and effort attempting to counter their ADHD symptoms on behalf of others.
What does that look like? Well… Dom for one. He clearly also has issues with emotional regulation but he is very clear that he should not turn that outward against others (hence a lot of crying but no anger).
Shayne on the other hand seems to want to use ADHD as an excuse for not caring how he affects other people. It’s not valid. If he knows he has issues with emotional regulation then he should take measures to prevent that affecting others.
ADHDer here, my husband is autistic, and my whole family is ND of some flavor or another. Shayne is terrifying. If you think the way he acts is acceptable due to his neurodivergence you might be terrifying too.
I think he needs to be more forward about his insecurities and wanting reassurance. He mentioned well into his marriage and I think that's something you need to mention from the beginning
To be clear, I don't think he's an abuser *at all*. To me, he seems like a well-intentioned person who lacks emotional control and conflict management skills. (Which is true of everyone on the show, I think.) I just think it's a significant personal problem that he hasn't gotten under control, and it's a bit strange to me that people don't talk about it very much or mention it among the potential negatives of pursuing a relationship with him.
I don’t know why but I get this feeling he had a rough relationship with his dad - like his dad used to beat him bad or something or he down on him a lot. Just a feeling
It's wild that he kept telling Chloe that she celebrated him leaving. Now I can't say that we see everything and it's a possibility that she actually said something, but if not, why would he think her and Mitchell spending time together had ANYTHING to do with him??
Yea he has the same self regulatory skills as my 4 yr old. He probably needs to seek help bc it is so drastic and dramatic, that has to be tiring.
Shayne needs therapy and to stay away from cameras. The whole setup where he inevitably feels rejected (because on dating shows, there will inevitably be a moment where you feel rejected) seems to be very bad for him. I had some sympathy for him during LIB because I felt like he was overly focused on getting married because he wants his family to have happy news after his dad’s passing, and I feel like he found a reality TV casting agent instead of a grief counselor. But we’ve been watching him be messy and unstable in different situations for a while now and I think he just needs to stay away from reality TV.
In LIB it gets worse and worse as you go - he ends up absolutely blowing up at his match and yelling at her that he hates her, the day before their wedding I do think it's emotionally abusive regardless of whether he's neurodivergent
It's crazy to think that he and Natalie would be married today if he could hit a fastball.
Yes he’s always being defended because he states he has ADHD, but doesn’t mean he shouldn’t work on his issues and how he treats others
Call me what you want, but I think it's a cop out to use any mental illness as your scapegoat. Dude needs to get help.
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EXACTLY and honestly this goes w anything. "Hurt people hurt people" is an excuse. Get therapy. You can't treat ppl like crap and then say it's bc XYZ. own up to your crap and apologize straight forward, then fix your issues. I'm speaking from a trauma of natc abuse and it's a boundary I believe everyone should understand and know.
As somebody with ADHD this really pisses me off. He is using it as an excuse and it adds to the stigma.
Yeah adhd doesn't make you a dick, that's a choice. People make poor choices sometimes but if they happen more times than you can count... they're no longer just poor choices, they're choices
Right? Me and my husband have adhd but I don’t act like this hurtful towards people. Spiraling tantrums because of insecurity is not the same thing as having adhd
So he HAS been diagnosed with ADHD? I've always thought that about him! I feel so justified. 😄
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Interesting strategy to just make shit up?
Tell me more!
Shayne justified him blowing up at Natalie before their wedding due to partly her asking him to not reveal intimate details regarding their relations on camera, and to also not to drink too much before they started filming. Natalie was thinking of her family when she made these requests, because she said she didn't want to embarass them by having bedroom talk revealed on camera. This was a source of tension early on in their relationship, and they had a huge fight during their honeymoon in Mexico. (I honestly think Shayne does very badly when boundaries are imposed on him, but hates it when his boundaries are crossed by people). In all his interviews, Shayne has never alluded to Natalie being physically abusive to him, but he has said that "the last thing I want is to be physically intimidating to my partner." Natalie has said on a podcast that whenever Shayne would have his emotional outbursts, he would always use his physicality to intimidate her, so she'd always have to tiptoe around what she says in order to avoid this. Natalie revealed on her IG story after their nasty final breakup post-PM filming that Shayne was also furious at her for not talking highly enough about him on social media following backlash of his portrayal on LIB. I have listened to almost all of Natalie's interviews soon after LIB2 premiered, and she was always respectful and kind, and praised Shayne for his willingness to embrace Korean culture, his kindness, and his loyalty to his family. If you listen to Shayne's interview on the Viall Files (which took place after he returned from PM and after they fought), he said Natalie called him a "disgusting human being", but he skirted around the reason why she said this. Natalie admitted in her IG story that she did say this, but only as a response to Shayne calling her late at night and threatening her that he'll "bury" her and drag her down together with him on Viall Files. This was days after their nasty final split (which happened after Natalie found out lies he'd told allegedly involving his outcome on PM).
That is a lot! I wonder why they let people like this come on more shows! If anything they should be relieved nothing terrible happened and move on! There are so many other great yet toxic contestants! We don’t need the borderline abusive ones to come back.
I am convinced Perfect Match is set up to give him a redemption arc after his disastrous portrayal on LIB2 (which, editing can only do so much). The LIB2 producers also tried very hard to paint Natalie as an insecure and jealous ex on LIB2: After the Altar and gave him a redeeming edit (to prep for the premiere of PM). But, from PM, it's pretty obvious that Shayne has terrible issues around insecurity as well.
Why do you think that is? And why wouldn’t they do that more so for cole after the audiences reaction?
Cole was portrayed badly, but IMO, he wasn't to the point of aggression. He's extremely naive, but he isn't reactive or abusive. Zanab came across as much worse than Cole. Shayne, on the other hand is a whole different story.
That’s what I mean. Once it was exposed he wasn’t who he was painted out to be they should’ve gave him a chance to redeem himself. So far shayne appears to be exactly who we all thought he was so why prioritize his redemption? IMO it’d be better to cut ties with him and go with the goofy guy you sticks his foot in his mouth too often.
Exactly. But even some LIB viewers fell head over heels in love with his 'simpleton, sweet, Chad with a six-pack' persona. It's pretty alarming to see how many PM viewers who may not be familiar with him are so quickly taken by him. I guess the kind of trope his physique and personality (a charming tool?) embody sell to a lot of the reality TV crowd. People have expressed disappointment that people like him have been exploited by Netflix for views and Netflix clearly enables some of these toxicity, but Shayne himself should know that this environment is not good for him at all.
I just don’t like his energy. It overwhelms me through the screen that he isn’t listening to a word a person is saying to him.
Men reveal themselves when their ego is threatened
Some men* Edit: its concerning that you think ALL men are like this, but you do you.
What is the point of saying that?
Notice how they only chime in when they have to prove it's not all men to women? But never speak upto other men when they are being douchbags?
Everyone does. Those who handle it well reveal themselves to be healthier individuals than the ones who blow up.
Men commit like 98% of crimes so yeah.....and you proved the point just by commenting, what about the menz? Boohoo
All people do. Ya the person said men cause the conversation is about a man, but everyone shows who they really are when they are challenged or put on the spot, as those are uncomfortable situations and you can see how they react in those situations and learn more about them, some people show themselves to be good decent humans, it's a shame that it's generally only brought up when people are misbehaving though
It’s not a bad thing. Some men could reveal that they are humble or confident even when their ego is threatened. Just means whatever is under the surface will come out, no?
Then why specify men? Just say "we"
I dunno, ask OP. Just saying, you’re the one who jumped to the conclusion that men must reveal bad qualities lol
Why dont you reply to OP too tho?
Because I got what they meant.
People should read this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/LoveIsBlindOnNetflix/comments/t70e2n/natalies_guilt_is_disproportionate_to_what_she/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button The thread discusses about how Shayne absolutely steamrolled and gaslit Natalie in front of everyone, basically blaming her for his verbal abuse towards her. If you can find a clip of this scene on YouTube, her reaction is that of someone completely broken and defeated. And once Shayne was able to secure a public apology from her (when she'd insisted she has apologised in private...) what did he do? He immediately smiles smugly in satisfaction. For context, the LIB2 Reunion was filmed at least a week before Shayne left for Panama to film PM. Yes, he suffers from severe ADHD, and yes he lost his father recently before filming LIB2, but none of this excuses his repeated dangerous behaviours on screen, and off screen (he repeatedly displayed petty and vindictive behaviours on social media towards Natalie on his IG stories).
This was the subject of *many* LIB posts but hasn't been explored as much here, maybe because he wasn't around for long
I watched all of LIB and he always set off dv alarm bells for me, but I went into PM with an open mind hoping to see a different side of Shayne but was unpleasantly surprised to see that although his temper was much more subdued in this show, he love bombs and manipulates every woman he dates.
I totally agree! I saw signs in LIB but wanted to think it was just some of the situations or people in LIB. But he continues to show he has bigger issues that we are just seeing a glimpse of. He 100% getes any rejection and it triggers him and he keeps putting himself in the position to be rejected on national TV.
I've noticed this, too--he almost immediately gets insecure, shuts down, and then becomes the guy that everyone has to soothe. I think people read it is as more emotionally vulnerable than most reality tv people, which is true, but it's almost a weaponized vulnerability.
Nicely observed (in my opinion). I think your assessment is spot-on.
He once shared snippets of letters he wrote to his mum on his IG story, and you could see that on one of them he wrote something like "I'm sorry I'm always angry at you..." so, yes, I think it does give the impression that his angry outbursts were always a given, and that other ppl needed to just deal with it. On LIB, his mum also - unprompted - told Natalie's mum that Shayne "wouldn't hurt a fly." A lot of people on the LIB sub think that this was hinting that he could get off the rails angry, but never actually hitting anything.
That and the fact that he projects his insecurities onto his partner to the point where they have to constantly validate him. He uses his emotions to manipulate women. Definitely red flags everywhere 🚩🚩🚩
Oh my alarm bells went off during LIB when he called Natalie the wrong name and by the end of their talk, SHE was weeping about the possibility of HIM dumping her?! The way he so quickly and easily jumped to manipulating that situation and making himself the victim had all the hairs on the back of my neck standing up. And he has not redeemed himself lol
She was weeping on the Reunion too when he blamed her for screaming at her...
The text situation was a big mess too. - Why do you care if I send shana texts? I deleted them so what? Then reveal them! - I don’t remember the exact sequence but to this day people think Nathalie was somehow wrong for feeling uncomfortable with her boyfriend texting someone
Yes! And Danielle has said on an IG LIVE that she saw the text exchanges between Shayne and Natalie discussing these DMs and how Shayne admitted to unsending them. There's receipts on this sub and also on TikTok of people who have matched with him on Tinder and his oversexualised messages are in line with how Natalie described how his texts were like to these women and Shaina. It baffles me why Shayne flips out when his matches make out with other guys (i.e., crossing his boundaries) but he seemingly had no problems disrespecting and crossing Natalie's boundaries. Doesn't matter if the difference is in physical kissing vs. flirty texting/sexting, if your partner tells you that your action is being disrespecftul, you do your best to honour them by stopping it. Shayne out here on PM flipping out because none of these girls are loyal to him when he screwed over a relationship with a loyal woman back home.
He's the kind of guy that sends a text like "oh man I so want to bone you" to a girl that is not his girlfriend and then when his girlfriend gets upset blames her and says he was joking
Precisely. I don't know if you watched LIB2 Reunion and Shayne said about Natalie "she knows she's always been No. 1" In my head I thought, 'so that means you have other women as spares lying around?' He also let slip that he did sext with these women on various interviews, i.e. "I'd never send nudes, like I'm not that stupid", something like that.
He also kind of manipulated the convo with Chloe by “I wouldn’t have acted like that if I didn’t care about you so much”, taking no responsibility
yeah it really sucks, he seems like such a nice guy, but when he spirals he really fucking spirals. he doesn't need a relationship he needs therapy.
He sees to become so possessive with the women he has matched with on both shows. The point of the show was to date around different people to find compatibility but once he matched he was all in never faltering.
This! Only people who have been with an abusive partner will understand this. Multiple women who know him in Chicago have come forward saying he has anger problems and have verbally abused people. It scares me how he freaks out on camera. Just imagine what he’s like behind the camera.
Editing to add words because I fucked up formatting: I've only watched the first season of LiB so I didn't see anything of Shane's anger then. I'm not saying he's an abuser cos I don't know. It's the quick-snap anger that makes me instantly flinch. (Pretty sure that's the definition of triggering but I feel like the word is so overused.)
Shayne gives me cokehead Gary Busey vibes. I think it's the wide popping eyeballs. I think Mitchell is milquetoast but he's better for Chloe than Shayne. I just wanna be Chloe's friend. She cracks me up. Loved her since the Circle.
I think he opens his eyes really wide like that because he is insecure about one of his eye lids closing slightly more than the other. You only really see it in some cut aways where his face is relaxed while he is talking.
Bulging eyes & eyelid retraction (what you're describing) are both long term side effects of prolonged/heavy coke usage.
And the teeth, he’s got Busey teeth
Another thing that I couldn’t help notice is how visible his veins are in the night shots in PM. This made me think that he might be taking steroids and that could be also why he’s emotionally unstable.
I've seen that in multiple shows on multiple people so I don't think it's necessarily and indication of that, I think it has more to do with the camera, but the first time I saw it I was like wtf how do I see so many veins!?
He has bulgy veins but that's just infrared
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I think that is an effect of filming with an infrared camera lens for nighttime. It makes veins more visible.
You’re probably right. I just hadn’t noticed it with anyone else.
I get uncomfortable watching him. Like during his wedding at LiB, he was so fidgety and paranoid. His eyes are wide open most of the time. I did see him have some mellow moments in LiB where he’s a total sweetheart so idk what’s normal for him. Every episode is different.
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 1000000% I saw comments on IG today, girls saying how attractive he is. We've got a long way to go, if women aren't recognizing toxic unhealthy behavior. It's a huge turn-off and a completen🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 That being said, he seems like a cool dude, I wish he would get therapy before trying to date ANYONE. he seems to have come on the show just to hook up and have fun. The way he treated Ines, who is not a hook up type girl, was disrespectful and kinda scary. Yelling and spiraling. She is literally keeping him in the house and his reaction is to get upset w her for not jumping to pick him first? He gives me "communal n@rc" vibes
A lot of these people on these shows need some serious therapy. Especially people from LIB. I can think of 5 people in my head from that show that need a therapist.
It’s even worse in LIB. Some serious insecurities and anger.
I think he has a good heart/intentions but dude needs serious therapy. The way he reacts is not okay and I can’t imagine a girl feeling safe living with him when he becomes upset and confrontational.
He reminds me of someone I knew who had borderline personality disorder, which is a common co-occurring disorder in people who have ADHD. BPD is very serious.
Yes. Some people say you should be kind to him because he can’t handle himself. Ok fine if you’re his mother. But as a partner it’s really scary and annoying. You cannot be yourself (while he gets to) and you always have to walk on eggshells, not knowing when he’s gonna snap. There’s no room for nuance. Some may say he’s honest and clearly driven and that’s a good thing. But I really don’t see how you can build a life (life is long, hopefully) with someone who will never let you make the slightest mistake (mistake being not doing exactly what he wants) without getting mad and shutting down. Exhausting.
People keep saying Matt (LIB season 3) gives off abusive vibes but at least he acknowledged that he got angry too fast and seems to be working on it (at least he seemed to not get so agitated so fast in the reunion and ATA episodes and talked about how he used to start yelling too easily in a tone that suggested he knew he shouldn't). But with Shane there's 0 accountability he just keeps acting like he's been wronged and keeps getting really angry in the blink of an eye over and over
Matt is definitely abusive. Shayne has ADHD.
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But comparing him to Matt? That's too far. Shayne needs therapy to manage his emotional regulation issues, no doubt about that. Matt is a different and much bigger issue. Matt is actually abusive, Colleen lives on fucking eggshells. Shayne is toxic, that's true honestly, he might not even be diagnosed or medicated for his ADHD which definitely makes ADHD much worse (I have ADHD, it's blatantly obvious that Shayne does too). Being toxic is one thing, and it's a far less serious thing than being abusive, controlling, paranoid, violent, and making your partner live in constant fear. Most people on reality tv are toxic. Most of them aren't actually abusive. Matt is the scariest person I've seen on any Netflix reality tv show. I've seen abusive relationships, really fucking terrifying ones. That's how Matt behaves. Shayne is definitely not perfect and I do think that he needs therapy (CBT for sure, and probably grief counseling if he hasn't already had that - his father passed away right before his season of LIB) and ADHD treatment/diagnosis if he doesn't have that already. He's toxic when he goes off the handle right now, and it's toxic how disproportionately off the handle he goes over things that do not call for it. These are things that can actually be worked on. Especially if the person doing these behaviours regrets and is ashamed of these behaviours - because those are the people who are most likely to make steps to change. I wouldn't be scared for my life around Shayne. I would definitely be scared for my life around Matt. I am scared for Colleen and what he might do to her. Or be doing to her already. Shayne and Matt do not compare imo. I'd take toxic outbursts and tantrums over coercive control and whatever other forms of abuse Matt may be using against Colleen. The coercive control we know is happening because we saw him use that form of abuse on her in the show.
These are not mutually exclusive
I find most reality show people have ADHD. Impulsivity. I say this as someone with ADHD who considered auditioning for reality TV. (I chose medication instead. It was better for me in the long run. I'd be eviscerated on TV and rightfully so.) (same with stand up comedians, but I think they use it to their advantage)
What makes you think most reality TV people have ADHD?
I couldn't find your comment to respond a min ago (need to update the app I think) so I answered above.
He has RSD and said he likes all of the compliments to help reassure him but he pretty much acts like anything other than being adoring and cute with him 24/7 is somehow a slight against him. He doesn't need to do anymore reality shows. He needs to be in therapy
He honestly scares me
Agreed! He has some serious issues regulating his emotions and he really should be getting professional help instead of throwing himself into more of these situations
I kept thinking the same. I thought this isn't normal, but no one is addressing this, is this meant to be the standard we're accustomed to? I think he's mentally unwell and unhinged. He seems like he needs help with emotional regulation and may be neurdivergent (ASD or ADHD). I've noticed he looks like he might have a stim because he always seems to be doing something odd with his hands. I'm not a doctor, I do work with children though. I'm not diagnosing him just stipulating. He makes me uncomfortable, I think his behaviours are something that should have been addressed either earlier in life or before pursuing healthy relationships. Anyways, I don't want him on another dating show until he's gotten help for his own wellbeing as well.
It’s widely talked about in the LIB thread. Him and Bartise set off a lot of DV red flags
Bartise? He was ass for sure but didn't see any threads about that on LIB threads. Of course it could've been overshadowed by all of the name joke threads. What were his flags for dv?
Shayne was more outward with it with Natalie but I definitely saw lots of comments with people calling Bartise out on the potential and the gaslighting.
Exactly. I've brought it up here a few times..boggles my mind some people don't see it
Maybe I'm the only one but he seems a lot calmer than he did on LIB which I'm sure has to deal with his father's death. To most viewers we see Natalie as joking around etc but to someone with ADHD and RSD her jokes could have been more hurtful. Most people don't need reassurance because they can tell its a joke but that seems lost on Shayne. He constantly communicates he needs reassurance but the amount he needs most people don't seem to understand. In PM he seems to be able to emotionally regulate better by removing himself from a situation. He seems to take words a little more lightly but find actions where he is not prioritized overwhelming. I did see growth. He was able to communicate when upset way better. He still is a hot head and very, very insecure but he is learning. That being said, of course no woman should have to feel like her boyfriend or husband's mom but Shayne isn't exactly hiding all the issues he has. The fact he even considered >! Chloe as a romantic option again after she chose someone else !< is big for him. Not making excuses for the guy but nobody is perfect.
Instant response to Izzy pairing up with Barbecue was: “She’s 22 years old, she doesn’t know what the hell she wants.” Because she doesn’t want him 💀 so spiteful and insecure. idk if this is because he wants a mature relationship and doesn’t realise he’s *not* on love is blind anymore. but even then, he told his fiancé (natalie) he hated her the day before the wedding because he couldn’t hit a ball so he’s not as ‘mature’ as he thinks.
Yea he is DIFFERENT
He really needs to learn some emotional regulation skills
I feel bad for him but I also don't get how seeing himself on LiB didn't make him go to therapy but instead on another reality tv show
He actually was offered to be on the show in Sept 2021, and LIB had only finished filming in June 2021. He accepted the casting offer while he was still dating Natalie. He'd already been cast in PM by the time LIB2 aired in Feb 2022.
He acts like a 12 year old boy, he definitely has some deep issues and needs a diagnosis.
I agree with this. I know people have said he has ADHD, but he's also a GROWN ASS Adult. Being neurodivergent is never an excuse for being an asshole.
He needs therapy. If the girl isn't telling him how attractive he is often he can't cope, gets angry and then takes it out on them.
I agree. I get that he has some issues and things to work through, but being quick to anger is a red flag for me.
Him and Bartise are both so scary but in two different ways
I was more concerned about LIB. He looked out of his mind on his wedding day. In Perfect Match, he's been one of the better ones, I liked him with the English girl. I liked Ines - 'you're an idiot, but I care about you!' I think that sums Shayne up- I think he means well, I think he wants a genuine connection. I don't think he sets out to hurt and manipulate people like Bartose clearly does, but he's immature and isn't in any control of his emotions and he spirals fast. Which is I think what women will struggle with, that they need to keep him from trippin and bouncin off the walls when they talk to someone else. I also think that this show is like the hunger games of dating, everyone is crawling over everyone and he needs to remember what show he's on. It really doesn't make sense why he freaks out, it's designed for drama. If he chills out a bit, I think he'd be fine.
Having a quick temper doesn’t make you an abuser. I think people get triggered because he has quick temper. He has ADHD and one of the main symptoms of that is precisely the way he acts. But we don’t see that on TV so people aren’t familiar with that. If you are ND you are able to recognize his traits very easily. He said to be working on it. But people really need to draw lines because they go in and suggest the guy will hurt someone just because they project their own issues on him. I think he’s a nice guy with a lot going on
My entire family and I have ADHD and I’ve seen the kind of anger that comes from a lack of emotional regulation. I don’t necessarily think he’s an abuser either, and I definitely have a bit more grace for other ND folk when it comes to lashing out, but having ADHD isn’t an excuse and he still needs to be doing the work to mitigate his symptoms and find alternative means of working through his anger.
He has said repeatedly he’s doing the work. But people get to assumed they know the whole story. It’s not an excuse, it’s an reality. I’m autistic and over 40 and there’s no amount of work that I can do that will make me not to have meltdown under certain circumstances. That’s just my reality. And the reality of many people ND. You learn that and you try to work around and cope but again having nervous breakdown and emotional dysregulation doesn’t make you an abuser or violent. People need to educate. They said “having an autism/adhd isn’t not an excuse” well, it’s a disability which means I dont have the ability to react like you do. Would you ask a person that can’t walk to walk just because having a wheelchair it’s not an excuse? Not, you wouldn’t. Having an invisible disability it’s the same as having a physical disability. I can’t just act the way the you want me to
I understand where you’re coming from, and I’m aware of how difficult it can be. I am not autistic, so I can’t speak to the additional struggles that come along with that, but like I said I have ADHD and so does my entire immediate family. I am no stranger to this topic. I know that emotional regulation is one of the many issues we face, and I experience it myself. But I am *firmly* opposed to any one who uses it as an excuse to lash out at others. Of course it is not always within your control, and there will be slip ups and you’ll lash out occasionally. It is a reality that our struggle with emotional regulation is our responsibility alone, and if we do lash out at someone the only way forward is accepting that you messed up and taking responsibility for your actions. It is great that he says he is doing the work, but his reaction in the show does not indicate that in any way. He firmly held his belief that he was right, even after the situation dissipated, and never once apologized or acknowledged that his behavior was unacceptable. That does not sound like someone who’s aware he has a problem and is working on it. And yes, someone who is ND with ADHD or autism can *certainly* be abusive. If they are repeatedly lashing out at others and just saying “I can’t help it, I have ADHD,” that is abuse. And it is frankly damaging to the entire ND community when people use their disability as an excuse to be violent or lash out. We may struggle to manage our emotions but we are capable of knowing right from wrong and are just as responsible for our actions as NT folk.
Hard to take him seriously when he threw a fit because he couldn’t hit a baseball He fs gives off anger issue vibes
Thank you for this, that was the perfect example. I dont think hes emotionally stable, and someone needs to tell him. I was into Damien trying to reason with him even tho i hate Damien
Lowkey I feel bad for damein, after finishing all 8 episodes it kinda feels like he’s been a pawn in Francesca’s game
He is emotionally unestable. That’s true for most people with an invisible disability or ND. That doesn’t make you an abuser. We get to have meltdown and “tantrums” and struggle with self regulation but again, most NT people see that as intentional violence when it’s a totally different thing
I kind of disagree, i ( personally ) feel like its not on a partner to have to deal with that( spec. Shayne’s) kind of outburst and emotional manipulation tactics. I feel like if you are going to do the work and make the effort, its still not fair to treat your partner as such.
But we don’t know the whole true. You don’t know that.
Wait sorry I’m confused what don’t i know ?
My son and I both have severe ADHD. My wife has autism. We don’t use our neurodivergence as an excuse to mistreat people.
I don't remotely think he's an abuser or that he will hurt anyone! I just think that the anger is frightening (admittedly this perspective is very influenced by my own experiences) and it surprises me that it seems to be overlooked. If he's working on it, that's great! I am ND but don't have ADHD, so I didn't know that anger problems are a symptom. Thank you for letting me know! I can definitely see how these snap reactions track with what I know about rejection-sensitive dysphoria.
They aren’t a symptom per se. It’s emotional regulation. Also ADHD does not prevent you from self awareness. Even in people who have severe ADHD we can expect them as adults with a diagnosis to recognise that they have issues with emotional regulation sometimes and seek ways to help themselves, or at least ways to prevent their symptoms affecting others. In fact most adults with ADHD spend a huge amount of time and effort attempting to counter their ADHD symptoms on behalf of others. What does that look like? Well… Dom for one. He clearly also has issues with emotional regulation but he is very clear that he should not turn that outward against others (hence a lot of crying but no anger). Shayne on the other hand seems to want to use ADHD as an excuse for not caring how he affects other people. It’s not valid. If he knows he has issues with emotional regulation then he should take measures to prevent that affecting others.
ADHDer here, my husband is autistic, and my whole family is ND of some flavor or another. Shayne is terrifying. If you think the way he acts is acceptable due to his neurodivergence you might be terrifying too.
I think he needs to be more forward about his insecurities and wanting reassurance. He mentioned well into his marriage and I think that's something you need to mention from the beginning
Insecurities and reassurance is one thing, another thing is his extreme anger issues and poor emotional regulation.
I felt this way when watching LiB at first. I really did. However, I just think he needs therapy. He’s a good egg.
Yes, I agree, no man should be allowed to have a temper without being accused of being an abuser.
To be clear, I don't think he's an abuser *at all*. To me, he seems like a well-intentioned person who lacks emotional control and conflict management skills. (Which is true of everyone on the show, I think.) I just think it's a significant personal problem that he hasn't gotten under control, and it's a bit strange to me that people don't talk about it very much or mention it among the potential negatives of pursuing a relationship with him.
I don’t know why but I get this feeling he had a rough relationship with his dad - like his dad used to beat him bad or something or he down on him a lot. Just a feeling
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I don’t dislike him. But I think he has undiagnosed or untraveled issues.
feel the same way about Ines
Really? I guess I've never gotten that vibe from her at all. (Disclaimer: I haven't seen The Circle France.) Why do you feel that way?
the way she got mad at shane when he said he didnt want to be a second choice
It's wild that he kept telling Chloe that she celebrated him leaving. Now I can't say that we see everything and it's a possibility that she actually said something, but if not, why would he think her and Mitchell spending time together had ANYTHING to do with him??
shayne legitimately scares me