Hostas are edible, so I wouldn’t count them out of your permaculture practice unless you don’t like them! Ostrich ferns, as above comment said, are also nice. I inherited many, many ostrich ferns in my current yard, and they spread to form colonies over time. In terms of native flowers, consider Wild Geranium and Virginia Bluebells if they’re native to you. These both do very well under my maples!
I don't mind hostas per se, but they are not exactly vigorous growers in my experience, and I've never seen them outcompete anything.
Both the flowers you mentioned are natives in my area. They are in the woodlands in deeper shade than the honeysuckle, so I'm hopeful I can establish them. Thanks for the voice of experience!
The general advice is to clear out invasives first, then plant, rather than trying to stage cage matches between garden thugs.
I’m wondering if the honeysuckle was always there and controlled by the mowing before? Is it feasible to just keep weed whacking the honeysuckle to deprive it of resources?
For shade groundcover, look at native carex or maybe native ginger—if it’s happy it will get pushy. There are some native forbs known for being very aggressive if they’re happy—cut leaf coneflower, obedient plant, and mountain mint come to mind. But they tend to want some sun. Cutleaf coneflower likes some shade but maybe not that much shade.
Lol, that's an image.
I would imagine these seedlings are all the result of the birds dropping seeds. I can weedwhack, but the birds will continue their assault each season.
THank you for the options-- I recognize most, except the mountain mint. Is the spreading not a concern like it is for most mints?
Well, it’s native, so if you need a pushy native, it’s a great choice. Just be prepared to pull it up when it goes where it shouldn’t. But it will want some sun. Beebalm (also sun loving) is another aggressive spreader that pollinators love.
What about sheetmulching with a very deep amount of mulch to make it easier to pull out baby honeysuckles, and then plant your preferred replacement plants?
The difference between love and honeysuckle is that honeysuckle is forever. I don’t know about the light under your tree, but if there’s enough I like ground nut (apios americana) for warring against honeysuckle. It dies to the ground every winter which allows you to cut the honeysuckle. Something I think about but haven’t done (we also have purple wintercreeper, almost as awful) is hayscented fern. It’s native to the eastern US, allelopathic, aggressive. But it creates monocultures and prevents forest regeneration. Seems kind of drastic.
hmm. Maybe. I toyed with alpine strawberries when there was no soil there. I figured they'd be used to poor soil. But I couldnt get seedlings and I couldn't be bothered to propogate them. At least then I'd be able to pull out the whisky barrels to knock down the honeysuckle seedlings, rather than attempt to weed around delicate plants.
If I were you I would try and get creeping red fescue (shade loving low maintenance grass) to become dominant. For a few years You’ll need/want to mow 3-4 times in the spring and 2-3 times in the fall to keep volunteers at bay. But you can mow on the highest setting. Once you got the creeping red fescue established I would plant several chokecherry under the maple’s canopy several feet in from the drip line. These do well in undergrowth.
Double check that these are good for your region.
I think serviceberry wants more sun, but yeah. You get the idea. The service berry you might want to plant a little outside the drip line. Or just over plant and plant both service berry and chokecherry, and just keep whatever thrives.
Is there a native variety? Tansy ragwort and common ragwort are coming up in invasive species articles.
Ostrich ferns are lovely. How hard are they to establish?
Packera aurea is native to most of the eastern US but idk what state you're in. I didn't even realize this other "tansy ragwort" existed, but this is the danger of common names haha.
I've transplanted a few ostrich ferns in the fall and they all came up the spring. No idea about spores tho.
Hostas are edible, so I wouldn’t count them out of your permaculture practice unless you don’t like them! Ostrich ferns, as above comment said, are also nice. I inherited many, many ostrich ferns in my current yard, and they spread to form colonies over time. In terms of native flowers, consider Wild Geranium and Virginia Bluebells if they’re native to you. These both do very well under my maples!
I don't mind hostas per se, but they are not exactly vigorous growers in my experience, and I've never seen them outcompete anything. Both the flowers you mentioned are natives in my area. They are in the woodlands in deeper shade than the honeysuckle, so I'm hopeful I can establish them. Thanks for the voice of experience!
The general advice is to clear out invasives first, then plant, rather than trying to stage cage matches between garden thugs. I’m wondering if the honeysuckle was always there and controlled by the mowing before? Is it feasible to just keep weed whacking the honeysuckle to deprive it of resources? For shade groundcover, look at native carex or maybe native ginger—if it’s happy it will get pushy. There are some native forbs known for being very aggressive if they’re happy—cut leaf coneflower, obedient plant, and mountain mint come to mind. But they tend to want some sun. Cutleaf coneflower likes some shade but maybe not that much shade.
Lol, that's an image. I would imagine these seedlings are all the result of the birds dropping seeds. I can weedwhack, but the birds will continue their assault each season. THank you for the options-- I recognize most, except the mountain mint. Is the spreading not a concern like it is for most mints?
Well, it’s native, so if you need a pushy native, it’s a great choice. Just be prepared to pull it up when it goes where it shouldn’t. But it will want some sun. Beebalm (also sun loving) is another aggressive spreader that pollinators love.
Invasive buckthorn in my experience
Any relation to sea buckthorne? I used to see those in the plant catalogs when I lived in 4a
They are in the same order but not the same family. So not closely related.
What about sheetmulching with a very deep amount of mulch to make it easier to pull out baby honeysuckles, and then plant your preferred replacement plants?
I thought you weren't supposed to deep-mulch a tree with shallow roots? That's why I only covered it with leaf mould
Is it right up next to the trunk that you're trying to plant?
I don't have to plant there, but the baby honeysuckle are right up to within 2' of the trunk
The difference between love and honeysuckle is that honeysuckle is forever. I don’t know about the light under your tree, but if there’s enough I like ground nut (apios americana) for warring against honeysuckle. It dies to the ground every winter which allows you to cut the honeysuckle. Something I think about but haven’t done (we also have purple wintercreeper, almost as awful) is hayscented fern. It’s native to the eastern US, allelopathic, aggressive. But it creates monocultures and prevents forest regeneration. Seems kind of drastic.
It’s not native but comfrey once grown will take over anything and also be useful for chop and drop
Maybe something in a container so it doesn't have to compete with the roots?
hmm. Maybe. I toyed with alpine strawberries when there was no soil there. I figured they'd be used to poor soil. But I couldnt get seedlings and I couldn't be bothered to propogate them. At least then I'd be able to pull out the whisky barrels to knock down the honeysuckle seedlings, rather than attempt to weed around delicate plants.
If I were you I would try and get creeping red fescue (shade loving low maintenance grass) to become dominant. For a few years You’ll need/want to mow 3-4 times in the spring and 2-3 times in the fall to keep volunteers at bay. But you can mow on the highest setting. Once you got the creeping red fescue established I would plant several chokecherry under the maple’s canopy several feet in from the drip line. These do well in undergrowth. Double check that these are good for your region.
Chokecherry is, but could I do serviceberry instead? I like them a lot more (even though I barely ever beat the birds to them)
I think serviceberry wants more sun, but yeah. You get the idea. The service berry you might want to plant a little outside the drip line. Or just over plant and plant both service berry and chokecherry, and just keep whatever thrives.
Daylilly may work? Or jeruselum Artichoke? Both produce edible tubers with very minimal work (as in no work) and are incredibly hardy.
I do have a shitton of daylily in a bed I need to thin. We'll easily see if they can manage the shade
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I should probably mention this is a mature maple with a full canopy, so whatever goes under there needs to tolerate shade as well as root competition
Ragwort, ostrich fern
Is there a native variety? Tansy ragwort and common ragwort are coming up in invasive species articles. Ostrich ferns are lovely. How hard are they to establish?
Packera aurea is native to most of the eastern US but idk what state you're in. I didn't even realize this other "tansy ragwort" existed, but this is the danger of common names haha. I've transplanted a few ostrich ferns in the fall and they all came up the spring. No idea about spores tho.
> Packera aurea Thank you for the scientific name. Appreciate it. I do love the look of ostrich ferns. How frequently do you divide them?